Dune: Prophecy - S01E02 - Two Wolves

[00:00:00] I'm Jeff Stormer, and I host Party of One, an actual play podcast focused on two-player role-playing experiences.

[00:00:06] Every week, I sit down with a friend.

[00:00:09] J.R. Goldberg.

[00:00:10] Alvaro.

[00:00:11] A.K.A. Wormtooth, formerly MCBlackWolf.

[00:00:14] Danny Costello.

[00:00:15] My name's Rich Howard.

[00:00:16] I'm Sharang Biswas.

[00:00:17] We play a two-player role-playing game, we share some laughs.

[00:00:20] An absolute blast to play.

[00:00:22] It was a delight to run my game with someone who got so into it.

[00:00:27] It was so easy to do.

[00:00:28] Seeing the creativity just blossom right in front of my eyes.

[00:00:32] Maybe a few tears.

[00:00:34] I've never had a game make me question my previously staunch moral compass.

[00:00:39] Jeff makes the greatest serial killer.

[00:00:42] And we have a really good time.

[00:00:43] The great way to take a chance on a new role-playing game.

[00:00:46] Truly exemplifies what is wonderful about a game with just two people driving the narrative together.

[00:00:55] You can find new episodes every Tuesday at partyofonepodcast.com.

[00:01:17] Welcome to the Dune Prophecy Podcast.

[00:01:19] We're the Lorehounds, your guides to the secrets of the sisterhood.

[00:01:22] I'm David.

[00:01:23] And I'm Alicia.

[00:01:24] And this is our coverage of the HBO series Dune Prophecy, Episode 2, Two Wolves.

[00:01:29] In this episode, we're going to start off with our hot takes and sort of general analysis.

[00:01:35] We'll take a little break.

[00:01:36] Then we'll get into a scene-by-scene discussion of the episode, followed by listener feedback.

[00:01:43] And then after our outro, we will have a book spoiler discussion at the very, very end.

[00:01:47] Yeah, we want to hear what you think about this show as well.

[00:01:51] What do you think of the first two episodes?

[00:01:52] What are you hoping for to come?

[00:01:54] Please send your thoughts in text or voicemail form to duneatthelorehounds.com.

[00:02:00] And Nancy will be monitoring that email and we'll get back to you and incorporate your notes into our next feedback session.

[00:02:07] We'd also invite you to join us on our community Discord server.

[00:02:11] We've got some great conversations happening there.

[00:02:13] We have channels set up for each episode.

[00:02:15] We also have a show guide and that is an online resource that's going to be focused mostly on what we're seeing on the screen.

[00:02:25] We're being careful about future book spoilers.

[00:02:28] We'll talk about all that stuff in a minute.

[00:02:30] But the show guide is great because it works really well on your mobile device.

[00:02:35] So you can have it as a handy reference while you're watching or if you want to go back to it.

[00:02:40] There'll be a link to the show guide in the show notes.

[00:02:43] And of course, we also welcome all subscribers.

[00:02:47] We have the Lorehounds level and the Loremasters level.

[00:02:52] You'll hear us thanking our Loremasters at the end.

[00:02:54] And these people all get access to extra episodes like our Second Breakfast episodes where we just talk about life and what's going on.

[00:03:04] And also our Elevenses episodes where we talk about extra movies.

[00:03:09] This past month, it was High Fidelity for December.

[00:03:12] It's going to be more Netflix cheese.

[00:03:16] Some heavy duty cheese.

[00:03:18] Yeah, you guys have got some fun titles lined up for that.

[00:03:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:03:23] Oh, yeah.

[00:03:23] I just binged the Princess...

[00:03:26] Sorry, Christmas Prince.

[00:03:28] Oh, God.

[00:03:28] I'm so sorry.

[00:03:29] Not to be confused with the Princess Switch.

[00:03:33] I'm making sure not to watch them because I will confuse the plots.

[00:03:37] Right.

[00:03:37] And how's it going over on Silo?

[00:03:39] Because you've got Silo coverage running full steam ahead right now.

[00:03:42] Yeah.

[00:03:43] Yeah.

[00:03:43] So that's busy, busy times.

[00:03:44] Of course, I had to drop this week's episode early because of Thanksgiving.

[00:03:48] So we have our weekly public feed episodes.

[00:03:53] We've got mailbags going on in between.

[00:03:55] And then we've got extra spoiler casts on that separate subscriber feed in the Silo Book Club.

[00:04:01] Right.

[00:04:02] And be sure to check the show notes for the link tree.

[00:04:05] And that has links to the other feed where Alicia is covering Silo with Luke and Abby.

[00:04:11] Right?

[00:04:12] Yes.

[00:04:13] Yeah.

[00:04:13] With Luke on the public feed and with Abby for the spoiler casts.

[00:04:17] Nice.

[00:04:17] Good stuff.

[00:04:18] Just a couple of quick admin notes before we get into our hot takes.

[00:04:23] And just as a way to set expectation and sort of reminders.

[00:04:27] I've read the original books and seen all the on-screen stuff except for the sci-fi drama.

[00:04:34] You have read a bunch of the extended universe stuff, but not all of it.

[00:04:40] Yeah.

[00:04:41] I wouldn't even say a bunch.

[00:04:42] Like basically the Great Schools trilogy and the stuff around that.

[00:04:46] Okay.

[00:04:46] Got it.

[00:04:47] And then we've seen – and you've seen the sci-fi traumatization.

[00:04:52] But otherwise, we've seen all the movies.

[00:04:54] And I think this is a good time to maybe introduce this idea to some folks who are not so deeply into the Dune universe.

[00:05:03] And we're going to kind of use this as a little bit of nomenclature.

[00:05:06] If you hear us refer to XD, that is the extended universe stuff.

[00:05:12] That's sort of the term of art that people in the online communities use for all of the Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson novelizations from the notes and other stuff that they've created.

[00:05:23] And then I think we can use OG for the original six books that Frank Herbert wrote.

[00:05:29] And then we kind of have the Villeneuve verse a little bit, which is kind of a hybridization of a little bit of both.

[00:05:37] And that's the two Dune movies that he made and the third one obviously coming.

[00:05:41] And then this television show because this is the same production house that's making that.

[00:05:45] And then just a reminder, we will have a deep dive book spoiler section at the very end.

[00:05:52] So if you're into that kind of stuff, wait until we finish the outro.

[00:05:55] Otherwise, Alicia, where are you with episode two, where we are with the season overall?

[00:06:02] What's your hot takes and general lore analysis, if I can coin a phrase?

[00:06:08] Well, I had to laugh when I saw the episode two with the titles called Two Wolves.

[00:06:12] It made me think of Dave Filoni, which for anyone who doesn't know is like the basically like the head of Star Wars right now.

[00:06:20] And he loves wolves.

[00:06:22] So do I.

[00:06:22] Okay.

[00:06:24] But what did you think that the two wolves meant?

[00:06:27] I know they talked about it on the official podcast, but that was not the interpretation I had watching the episode.

[00:06:32] Yeah, I haven't had a chance to listen to the official podcast yet.

[00:06:35] And I should mention just really quick as well.

[00:06:37] I'm traveling right now.

[00:06:38] We're visiting some relatives for the American Thanksgiving holiday.

[00:06:43] So my acoustics may be a little different for what people are used to.

[00:06:47] And just juggling family stuff and activities.

[00:06:50] And I haven't had a chance to read the or listen to the official podcast.

[00:06:55] So I didn't hear what their interpretation is.

[00:06:57] For me, I was having a trouble, having a little trouble figuring out what Two Wolves was in reference to.

[00:07:06] I kind of feel like it's the and this is just off off my top of my head.

[00:07:12] I kind of feel like it's between Valia and Desmond.

[00:07:16] That's what I interpreted it as.

[00:07:18] But I think they meant like the two wolves inside Desmond.

[00:07:20] And now I'm already forgetting what they said in the official podcast.

[00:07:23] So I'm like, no, rejected.

[00:07:24] It's Valia and Desmond.

[00:07:25] That's my head canon.

[00:07:26] Fair enough.

[00:07:29] But yeah, it seems like most people liked this episode better than the first one.

[00:07:34] But I have to admit, for me, it's the other way around.

[00:07:37] I didn't dislike this episode.

[00:07:38] I do think we're definitely going to talk about that sex scene.

[00:07:41] I did find it like gratuitous.

[00:07:43] We got some funny feedback about that too.

[00:07:45] And I'm not even like, I'm not the prudish one.

[00:07:48] I'm usually the one who's like, let people, let characters have sex.

[00:07:51] But this was like, come on.

[00:07:54] HBO.

[00:07:55] HBO going to HBO.

[00:07:57] Exactly.

[00:07:59] But yeah, I mean, this one, for instance, I did watch it twice.

[00:08:02] But I was less enthralled the second time.

[00:08:04] I was like, all right, come on.

[00:08:05] And the first one, the second time I watched it, I was just as into it.

[00:08:09] So yeah, take that for what it's worth.

[00:08:12] But it does develop the plot further.

[00:08:14] It's moving.

[00:08:15] We'd set up the chessboard last time.

[00:08:18] Now we're starting the opening moves.

[00:08:20] The opening moves are always boring in chess because it's just like bump a pawn forward

[00:08:25] two spaces, basically.

[00:08:27] So I'm still waiting.

[00:08:29] I know that the back half is going to be where the story really picks up just from what the

[00:08:33] cast has said about their favorite episodes in interviews.

[00:08:37] So I'm chilling.

[00:08:41] I'm enjoying the show enough.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] New opening was cool, right?

[00:08:45] Yeah.

[00:08:46] Yep.

[00:08:46] And I figured given the holiday, at least for my personal schedule and traveling and stuff,

[00:08:52] I didn't get a chance to dig into that.

[00:08:54] But I figured we could do a little analysis maybe on the next episode.

[00:08:58] It seemed pretty straightforward in terms of the visual images that they were giving us.

[00:09:02] It didn't feel at all like, say, true detective this year at the beginning of this year where

[00:09:08] it was like, wow, they've embedded mysteries into this.

[00:09:10] It felt pretty straightforward in terms of things that we can easily interpret.

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:17] It reminded me a little of Silo, but probably just because a DNA helix shows up.

[00:09:21] But indeed, Silo was a bit more like, let's dig into this and see what clues there are.

[00:09:26] This was, yeah, we have more of the eye motif that's everywhere.

[00:09:29] We've got the DNA, sandworms and spice.

[00:09:31] That's pretty straightforward.

[00:09:32] The pomegranate shows up.

[00:09:34] I do recommend watching it with audio description on.

[00:09:39] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:40] That's a good idea.

[00:09:41] Definitely do that.

[00:09:41] And it definitely feels like it's within the class of Westworld and Silo and all of these

[00:09:50] types of shows where they're giving us these computer graphics that add some context to

[00:09:57] the world building.

[00:09:58] And obviously, some of the folks in production that are involved in this production were

[00:10:02] involved in the Westworld production.

[00:10:05] Yeah.

[00:10:06] And what did you think of the episode overall?

[00:10:08] Yeah.

[00:10:10] I thought it was also interesting that a lot of folks were enjoying the episode.

[00:10:17] I sort of enjoyed the first half and then it started to fall apart for me a little bit.

[00:10:23] In the second half, it got a little soapy.

[00:10:25] Okay.

[00:10:26] And I wasn't sure what to think.

[00:10:28] But then when I took apart the Lego pieces that made up this episode, the lore is all

[00:10:34] pretty on point.

[00:10:35] I mean, we'll talk about the Desmond thing in a second.

[00:10:37] So it's not bad, but I just felt that there were some...

[00:10:40] There was a couple of things that really I didn't enjoy.

[00:10:45] Anyway, when the show veers off into the rebellion stuff, that's really where it started to lose...

[00:10:53] Oh, I found that some of the most interesting part.

[00:10:56] Okay.

[00:10:56] Yeah.

[00:10:57] That was interesting because I didn't...

[00:10:59] There was some writing that I was a little bit uncomfortable with when Michaela is explaining

[00:11:08] to Valia what their purpose is.

[00:11:11] It's like, yeah, you should know that.

[00:11:12] That's exposition for audience.

[00:11:14] It's not...

[00:11:15] Good exposition is when characters can explain stuff and it doesn't contradict their character

[00:11:22] motives or it's not obvious that it's being told to us.

[00:11:27] So I felt that was a little bit off.

[00:11:29] And I have to say that the central mystery about Desmond Hart is making me nervous.

[00:11:36] And I've got one issue in which we'll talk about is like how his sort of wild swing from

[00:11:42] being prisoner to a vizier, you know, to being a trusted agent of the emperor.

[00:11:48] I mean, that just says everything we need to know about Havico.

[00:11:51] But...

[00:11:51] Yeah, it's true.

[00:11:52] Actually, I thought that that was because going in, you know, I said based on reading

[00:11:56] when I knew of the character before and in that novella, I thought that he would be this

[00:12:03] kind of character that he's proving to be, which is maybe not an example of why being an

[00:12:10] emperor shouldn't necessarily be hereditary.

[00:12:12] Right, exactly.

[00:12:14] I will say that Mark Strong's portrayal is great because he's trying to be this strong man,

[00:12:20] but he's weak and confused and being sort of buffeted by the political winds and not in

[00:12:25] control of everything.

[00:12:27] And Strong's performance of that nuance is really good.

[00:12:30] So I'm really enjoying that aspect of it.

[00:12:32] I'm just a little bit nervous with Hart because if they're going in a couple of different directions,

[00:12:38] they're really pushing some storyline that it's like, okay, let's see if you can pull that off.

[00:12:44] If they can, I'm here for it.

[00:12:47] But I'm just nervous and I'm going to hang in there.

[00:12:51] It also was a little jetpack-y, like Valya getting from Wallet's Nine to Seleuze, the second

[00:12:56] disc really that quickly.

[00:12:58] It seemed a little quick for me given the way that space travel works in this universe and

[00:13:05] everything, but okay, whatever.

[00:13:06] The show continues to be really visually beautiful.

[00:13:09] There are some amazing shots here.

[00:13:11] There's a great scene of Tula in the laboratory preparing the Rossic poison and some other stuff

[00:13:18] that are just gorgeous.

[00:13:20] So I really appreciate a show that takes time for the aesthetics beyond just visual storytelling,

[00:13:26] but actually making something that's visually beautiful for itself.

[00:13:30] That then lends to the story.

[00:13:32] So I really appreciate that.

[00:13:33] They're dealing with some great major themes as well.

[00:13:37] Motherhood, emotional bonding, genetics, the sort of science fiction of this genetic memory

[00:13:44] of other memories.

[00:13:45] Obviously, we get some martyrdom and trolley problem related stuff.

[00:13:49] So that's all good.

[00:13:50] So from a lore standpoint and a big story concept standpoint, I'm still satisfied.

[00:13:56] And look, you can have an off episode in a season.

[00:13:59] I'm not going to freak out at this stage.

[00:14:01] But yeah, some of it was a little bit, I was like, meh.

[00:14:06] Side notes, I did just do a rewatch of Dune 1 and Dune 2 over last weekend.

[00:14:15] And you can say what you want about Denis Villeneuve's plot choices.

[00:14:20] You know, some of his shippy test stuff, like how does he adapt complex storylines from page

[00:14:25] to screen.

[00:14:26] But man, that man knows how to pull emotion out of you with just a visual image and some

[00:14:31] background music.

[00:14:33] It just like, I just sat down and watched these movies and I just started emoting.

[00:14:37] I just started feeling.

[00:14:38] He's so good at that aspect.

[00:14:41] There was something that I thought was interesting too, is, you know, at the beginning of this

[00:14:47] series, we have that quote about, you know, victories, you know, and born in the, you know,

[00:14:53] in the light, but, you know, what you have to do in the darkness.

[00:14:55] And there's a line in there about the Atreides all dying in the dark, one of the movies.

[00:15:00] And I thought that was a nice little rhyming thing.

[00:15:03] And something else I just noticed, a very small point with Jammus, when they're doing

[00:15:09] his funeral rites, they grease his eyes and his ears and they do the same thing to Mother

[00:15:16] Superior Raquel when they're preparing her body for burial.

[00:15:19] They grease her eyes and ears.

[00:15:21] With Jammus, I thought they were sealing the orifices with like a wax or something so

[00:15:26] that they can...

[00:15:28] Right.

[00:15:29] And I didn't...

[00:15:30] That's good headcanon.

[00:15:31] I wasn't sure, but I just noticed that they did it both for Raquel and for Jammus.

[00:15:35] Whatever the reasons being, I thought it was an interesting...

[00:15:38] Okay.

[00:15:39] No, I was saying I thought it was different with Raquel, but yeah.

[00:15:41] Okay.

[00:15:41] No, no.

[00:15:42] They put grease...

[00:15:42] Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:43] I mean, what purpose?

[00:15:44] I don't know, but they still put grease on her eyes and ears.

[00:15:47] No, yeah.

[00:15:48] I was saying with Jammus, I thought it wasn't grease.

[00:15:50] I thought it was like a wax or something to seal the orifices.

[00:15:53] Yeah.

[00:15:54] Yeah.

[00:15:54] Anyway.

[00:15:55] Whatever the substance being.

[00:15:56] Yeah.

[00:15:56] So it was interesting.

[00:15:57] And then I started to reread...

[00:15:59] I've started to reread book one again.

[00:16:03] And some fun stuff in there.

[00:16:05] Whale fur gets mentioned, but not whale seed.

[00:16:07] And the Richazis, we've got some feedback about that, but they are canon.

[00:16:12] Chapter six, they're mentioned right there, but we'll talk about that when we get into

[00:16:15] the episode.

[00:16:18] So before we get into our scene by scene, let's take a quick break and then when we come back,

[00:16:22] we will start to break down the episode.

[00:16:30] Wünschst du dir jemanden, der dich versteht wie kein anderer?

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[00:17:29] And we are back.

[00:17:32] Okay, final spoiler warning before we get into the episode.

[00:17:36] A couple of notes to mention.

[00:17:37] Lore versus plot.

[00:17:40] When there's a lore topic like the voice or other memories, we're going to discuss that

[00:17:45] and provide context for it.

[00:17:47] As to how, say, other memories and talking with your ancestors might affect, say, some of the

[00:17:54] OG books or XD books, we're not going to try to spoil plot.

[00:17:59] We're going to try to steer away that.

[00:18:00] But we are going to unpack the lore.

[00:18:02] In terms of spoiling, though, we're going to talk freely about the Denis Villeneuve movies

[00:18:08] one and two and the first book of Frank Herbert, the book one, Dune.

[00:18:13] Uh, and then anything else that's from the other books that happens on screen, we'll be discussing

[00:18:22] anything from any of the prequel sequel books that we think are show spoilers that would

[00:18:28] spoil the plot of this show.

[00:18:30] We're going to save that for the book spoiler section at the end.

[00:18:34] And we're also going to have some feedback from some folks who wrote in and some of those

[00:18:40] spoiler topics that'll go all in at the very end as well.

[00:18:43] And before we get into the scene by scene, I just have to give a huge, huge thank you

[00:18:49] to Nancy, two kids, two dogs on our discord.

[00:18:53] She is coordinating our feedback.

[00:18:57] But for this week, I was chatting with her and I was like, oh, I don't know when I'm going

[00:19:01] to get the show outline done and stuff because of travel schedules.

[00:19:05] And she wrote her first episode recap, which we're going to be using to organize our discussion

[00:19:12] today.

[00:19:12] Nancy, thank you.

[00:19:13] You did an amazing job for your first time.

[00:19:16] It's really hard to do a show recap.

[00:19:18] It's a fine balance between getting enough detail off of screen, remembering some quotes,

[00:19:25] being able to sort of type while the show is playing without going too deep into a scene

[00:19:30] and sort of like just retelling the whole episode.

[00:19:32] And Nancy did a wonderful job.

[00:19:34] You are a godsend.

[00:19:36] Thank you so much.

[00:19:36] Also, big shout out to Brian8063, who's been helping us out on the discord a lot and with

[00:19:42] some of the show guide material and backend administration of the show guide.

[00:19:48] So I just really appreciate our community.

[00:19:50] And I really appreciate anyone who wants to step up and help and volunteer.

[00:19:55] Just thank you so much, Nancy.

[00:19:56] Really, really great.

[00:19:58] And regarding the outline, it's going to be a hybrid between thematic and timeline.

[00:20:05] And so Nancy has broken it up a little bit by themes and scenes.

[00:20:11] And so some things are going to be out of order, but it's going to allow us to follow

[00:20:15] through on some of the themes and talk about some of the plot lines without jumping back

[00:20:21] and forth between Wallach and Seleuze second us.

[00:20:24] So starting off, we have Sister Nazir, who has become a souk doctor and arrives on Wallach

[00:20:30] 9 for an autopsy.

[00:20:32] She explains that Reverend Mother Kasha died from a heat source that was internal.

[00:20:38] Reverend Mother Tula tells her that Kasha had a nightmare that terrified her and that she

[00:20:43] knew something was coming.

[00:20:45] Tula tells Nazir that she needs to answer to what happened to Kasha, but the exam is inconclusive.

[00:20:53] All right.

[00:20:54] She needs answers.

[00:20:54] Yeah.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:57] What do you got?

[00:20:57] So I got to point out, first of all, that Sister Nazir, the souk doctor, is played by

[00:21:03] Karima McAdams, Wheel of Time, alumni in the house.

[00:21:07] She plays High Lady Surath.

[00:21:10] So she was in season two.

[00:21:13] She was the head of the Shon Chen, you know, the woman who had the sides of her head shaped.

[00:21:20] Yeah.

[00:21:21] Very cool.

[00:21:22] So yeah, deeper ties between the two properties.

[00:21:25] It's all good.

[00:21:27] The ship landing scene was, and the doctor walking out was all directly from the trailer.

[00:21:32] So I think we're getting close to having exhausted all of the trailer scenes.

[00:21:35] I think we have a couple more.

[00:21:36] But they really relied heavily on episodes one and two for a lot of stuff.

[00:21:42] What do you know about the diamond on the forehead of a souk doctor?

[00:21:47] Did you read the souk school books?

[00:21:53] I mean, do they have special souk school books?

[00:21:56] I thought it was mixed in with other stuff.

[00:21:58] I don't know.

[00:21:59] I haven't read the XD stuff, so.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:02] I mean, the Great Schools trilogy, it says the titles of them imply it's about the sisters,

[00:22:09] the mentats, and the navigators.

[00:22:11] But to be honest, they talk about all of them, although they do focus on those three.

[00:22:16] But yeah, just know just that it's like, you know, as you have here, it's a sign of imperial

[00:22:22] conditioning.

[00:22:23] So basically, it doesn't just mean you're studying at the souk school.

[00:22:26] It means that you have basically graduated, that you have undergone this imperial conditioning,

[00:22:32] which is supposed to make you unable to harm someone.

[00:22:36] You know, it's basically taking the Hippocratic oath to the nth degree.

[00:22:41] Exactly.

[00:22:42] That's exactly what I was thinking, is it's a Hippocratic oath that is like psychologically

[00:22:46] conditioned into you.

[00:22:48] When I was reading book one, they talk about it being a sign of imperial conditioning.

[00:22:55] So I don't think the diamond has anything specifically to do with the souk school,

[00:22:59] unless that's some extended universe lore.

[00:23:02] No, no.

[00:23:03] But I mean, where do you get the imperial conditioning?

[00:23:06] At the souk school.

[00:23:07] At the souk school.

[00:23:08] Right.

[00:23:08] So I would say it's not like a sign of being a student there.

[00:23:11] It's more of a sign of being a graduate there.

[00:23:13] Ah, I like that.

[00:23:14] Okay.

[00:23:15] But they all, and they also always have long hair that they wear in a silver ring.

[00:23:19] And they, oh, that's interesting.

[00:23:20] I didn't realize that.

[00:23:22] You'll see it with Dr. Yue too, in the original book movies.

[00:23:26] Okay.

[00:23:27] So there was a weird shot at the beginning of this where they kind of linger on Kasha's

[00:23:31] foot.

[00:23:32] And I'm not sure, it was a little gruesome.

[00:23:34] I'm not sure why they showed us that other than to just indicate that it was her body

[00:23:40] and it was, it was badly burned.

[00:23:42] But I didn't know if there was a clue embedded in there or not.

[00:23:45] I don't know if you picked up on the way that the scarring on her foot from the burns.

[00:23:49] Well, I think, I mean, you know, cause I said in the last episode, I'm like, well, what if

[00:23:53] all of that feeling was inside her head?

[00:23:55] And this is a confirmation that nope, very much burned.

[00:23:59] Everybody sees it.

[00:24:01] Super burned.

[00:24:01] That's right.

[00:24:01] Yeah.

[00:24:03] And I think that goes into this question of, um, this meridian network, because she says

[00:24:08] there's no evidence of an accelerant.

[00:24:10] The heat source was an internal and acute imbalance of her meridian network, which in this universe,

[00:24:18] you know, I'm not sure what they're employing that term to mean necessarily, but in our modern

[00:24:25] context, the meridian network is a system of energy lines in the body that, uh, come from

[00:24:31] traditional Chinese medicine.

[00:24:33] At least that's how we, we know it.

[00:24:35] And it, uh, uh, an understanding of how, uh, key, uh, energy or sort of psychic spiritual

[00:24:42] energy can flow through the body.

[00:24:43] Yeah.

[00:24:44] Chi.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:45] Um, yeah.

[00:24:46] I mean, yeah, it's something like, you know, Western science scientists will be like, that's

[00:24:50] a pseudoscience, but you know, um, uh, yeah, there, there are, there are studies where people

[00:24:57] are trying to say like, well, how do we see the effects that are attributed to the meridian

[00:25:02] network and that there might actually be some basis.

[00:25:05] So.

[00:25:05] Right.

[00:25:06] And we'll talk a little bit more about Pranabindu and Nervature training later, but this is certainly

[00:25:13] an indication of the way that the sisterhood trains people to have an awareness at a cellular

[00:25:18] level.

[00:25:19] So if there's something that could affect the meridian network, uh, by creating this

[00:25:25] imbalance, um, that's not only a clue to the central mystery, but also build some lore

[00:25:30] for the sisterhood in terms of how they train and do stuff.

[00:25:34] Speaking of lore, something that I thought would be interesting to point out is that you

[00:25:42] can cross discipline in this universe.

[00:25:45] So you could be a Bene Gesserit sister and a Mentat.

[00:25:50] You could be a souk doctor and a sister of the sisterhood.

[00:25:55] Now it's not talked about specifically in the books, but I, I doubt that trying to triple

[00:26:01] up on your specializations would be very feasible because you have to dedicate so much to just

[00:26:07] one training, but you can double up on two and we certainly see that.

[00:26:11] I mean, I guess, um, in the original book, Paul Atreides kind of does that.

[00:26:16] He, he kind of learns a little bit from not the souk school, but for most of the other schools,

[00:26:22] but then it's because all of his tutors are in one place.

[00:26:25] He doesn't have to study in different schools and different planets.

[00:26:28] And, uh,

[00:26:28] That's a, that's a good point.

[00:26:30] Yeah.

[00:26:31] Because he's, he's a noble trained to lead.

[00:26:34] He's learning to be a swords master from two of the greatest, you know, the Imperium's

[00:26:39] greatest, uh, single combat fighters, uh, Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho.

[00:26:44] And specifically he's being pre-trained as a Mentat, uh, as a young man.

[00:26:51] And then all the while his mother is teaching him Bene Gesserit skills.

[00:26:56] And so he is, uh, a multiple of things, which makes him the Quisette's Haderack.

[00:27:01] Next scene.

[00:27:01] News of Kasha's death has spread through the sisterhood and is the topic of conversation

[00:27:06] for several Alkalites gathered in the library.

[00:27:08] They wonder how something like this could have happened.

[00:27:12] Sister Theodosia warns the others to keep up their guard.

[00:27:16] She believes that a truth sayer of the Imperial court killed just before the wedding is no

[00:27:22] coincidence.

[00:27:22] It must be an assassination.

[00:27:25] Dun, dun, dun.

[00:27:26] I mean, yeah.

[00:27:29] So I thought what was a little interesting here is that we have four sisters, Emmeline,

[00:27:33] Jen, Theodosia, and Lila.

[00:27:35] And that's kind of a mirror to Valia, Tula, Kasha.

[00:27:40] And we have yet to meet in the modern or in the concurrent storyline, Francesca.

[00:27:46] So they're sort of giving us a, uh, the original four sisters who led the sisterhood on the

[00:27:54] path that Valia wanted versus these young four Alkalites who are learning now.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:28:00] And who may not have their, may not have the same goals basically.

[00:28:04] Or at least we, we see that Jen and Emmeline are opposed this episode.

[00:28:09] Right.

[00:28:09] Yeah.

[00:28:10] A little bit of divergence where Emmeline says the founding sisters were willing to die

[00:28:14] for Raquelas, uh, you know, to follow in her footsteps.

[00:28:17] And just a reminder, if you need to refresh on who's who you can go to our show guide.

[00:28:24] That's what it is.

[00:28:24] We have no pictures there links to the actors, uh, IMDB pages, and then just short little

[00:28:29] bios to help refresh, uh, memory.

[00:28:32] So it's a really great, uh, resource, especially while you're watching the episode.

[00:28:36] All right.

[00:28:38] So on to news that Pruitt has met a similar fate.

[00:28:43] Valia realizes that this must be the burning truth that mother superior Raquelas spoke of

[00:28:48] as she lay dying.

[00:28:49] She immediately makes plans to leave for Seleuza Secundus.

[00:28:53] With Kasha gone, someone has to fill the void and protect our plans.

[00:28:57] So, uh, she also wants to secure the princess.

[00:29:01] So she invites the Adosa to accompany her with instructions to make yourself her confidence.

[00:29:09] I thought that this was interesting here.

[00:29:11] This, I, this, the language specifically, we need to secure the princess, right?

[00:29:15] The princess isn't a person.

[00:29:17] Hey, this is an important, you know, uh, person for us.

[00:29:20] She's more of an asset than she is a person.

[00:29:23] Hmm.

[00:29:24] I mean, I guess I treat everyone like that, including their own sisters.

[00:29:28] True.

[00:29:29] Which is what I think Jen later, uh, sort of, uh, disagrees with is, is that you're being

[00:29:34] treated, um, as a tool rather than as a person, right?

[00:29:39] For the, the greater, the greater good of the sisterhood.

[00:29:43] And then did, I guess, uh, I didn't quite pick this up on the, on my first viewing, but,

[00:29:49] uh, uh, Valia is basically assigning herself to be the truth sayer of the emperor.

[00:29:54] Like I'm your, she doesn't even say I'm your replacement, but she's just kind of stepping

[00:29:59] in, in that way.

[00:30:00] Right.

[00:30:01] I mean, probably not permanently, but I guess it makes sense that she's like, I want to talk

[00:30:05] to this guy who it looks like killed my sister.

[00:30:09] Right.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:10] They do, uh, some more foreshadowing of the key card, uh, access to the genetic library.

[00:30:16] We see that sort of being handed off specifically.

[00:30:20] And, uh, we also get a name drop of Francesca.

[00:30:23] So, uh, another little foreshadowing of, of stuff that's coming up.

[00:30:27] There was a little scene when Valia is talking to Theodosa where Theodosa says, you, you're

[00:30:35] aware of my circumstances, question mark, question mark.

[00:30:38] And I was wondering if you had any thoughts as to what Theodosa's circumstances are like,

[00:30:43] cause they, they just dropped that line and there's no other additional information.

[00:30:48] Well, I mean, uh, my first thought when Theodosa said that was she's pregnant.

[00:30:53] Um, I, and I, that's still, I guess is my leading theory.

[00:30:58] Um, I don't know if there could be an illness or my circumstances or maybe some connection,

[00:31:07] uh, with the Royal family or whatever that she's being called into.

[00:31:12] Uh, but yeah, my first thought was pregnant.

[00:31:16] Right.

[00:31:16] Which I think would be interesting to be a sister in training and then for them to do that.

[00:31:22] But that in some ways might make sense because they're trying to make sure that they have

[00:31:27] genetic lineages for everyone before they might enter into dangerous situations.

[00:31:31] You know, you want to get those, uh, uh, genetic memories embedded in particular lines.

[00:31:38] Yeah.

[00:31:38] But okay.

[00:31:39] Well, we're going to talk about that later.

[00:31:40] Yes.

[00:31:41] Cause they, I think you had a thought about that.

[00:31:43] Yeah.

[00:31:46] All right.

[00:31:46] Hard choices with volume departing while it's nine tool learns that her sister doesn't think

[00:31:50] she's up to the task of maintaining the sisterhood in her absence.

[00:31:53] Value explains that hard choices are needed involving Lila.

[00:31:57] One of the sisters who Tula helped raise.

[00:31:59] She needs to connect with her ancestors, said Valya.

[00:32:03] She is the one who can give us the answers we need.

[00:32:06] We must understand how this prophecy will unfold.

[00:32:09] Tula does not believe Lila is strong enough and that making this, uh, taking this course of

[00:32:16] action may make the, their secrets vulnerable, but Valya counters that this is a risk they

[00:32:23] must take.

[00:32:26] Thoughts about this sort of, we got some dramatic, uh, tension.

[00:32:29] What do you think about where Tula and Valya are falling down on the, either side of this

[00:32:35] question?

[00:32:36] Well, I mean, I think it's rich for Valya to say that, I mean, just because Valya in the,

[00:32:43] um, great school books, Valya, um, she puts off doing this agony because she doesn't want

[00:32:53] to die.

[00:32:54] And to be fair, to be fair at that point, the only person who had survived it was Raquel and

[00:32:59] everyone else who had tried and died.

[00:33:01] And so they tried and died.

[00:33:03] They tried and died.

[00:33:04] And then Dorotea was the first to survive, uh, after Raquel.

[00:33:09] Okay.

[00:33:09] Right.

[00:33:10] Um, but yeah, so now of course, yeah.

[00:33:13] So Valya is, uh, I, I don't think anyone ever mistook her for like a nice person, but this

[00:33:19] is just very hypocritical of her.

[00:33:22] Yeah.

[00:33:22] That's true.

[00:33:24] And they use the word, we get the, the name drop of agony, right?

[00:33:27] The, the, uh, it's not the spice agony, but it's just the agony at this stage.

[00:33:31] Cause they're not using spice yet for that function.

[00:33:35] Uh, and that's a good lore, uh, corner to touch base with real quick.

[00:33:39] And we've mentioned this before that sisters are able to, uh, have control over the cell,

[00:33:49] you know, they can manage the cellular aspects of their bodies and they can change how things

[00:33:55] are metabolized in their system.

[00:33:57] Uh, in the first Dune movie, when Jessica drinks the water of life, Paul mentions this,

[00:34:03] you know, he says, you know, our, you know, my mother was trained to be able to do this,

[00:34:07] to alter the chemical nature of the poison.

[00:34:10] And so the, the agony, this is this crisis point.

[00:34:14] This is one of the things about the sisterhood that, um, crisis is a tool.

[00:34:20] Frank Herbert uses as a, uses this a lot in a couple of different functions that under,

[00:34:26] uh, periods of tremendous stress are these inflection points where not only an individual

[00:34:34] can be transformed, but the species itself can go through transformation.

[00:34:39] And, um, what I think the sisters are trying to do over time is to guard or to, to guide

[00:34:48] humanity through all these trials and tribulations.

[00:34:50] And one of the things that they really try to instill in themselves is this idea that emotions

[00:34:55] cloud judgment.

[00:34:56] So you're going to keep, you know, things like who is your mother and an individual attachments,

[00:35:02] which could potentially compromise you from pulling the lever in the trolley test versus the individual

[00:35:09] versus, uh, the, the many kind of thing.

[00:35:11] And so, uh, not only is the agony and this crisis moment of an individual being able to,

[00:35:18] uh, uh, reach down into their body.

[00:35:21] And you can only do that knowing that there's no safety net here, that there is no antidote

[00:35:25] to this poison.

[00:35:26] You have to push yourself beyond what you think your limits are.

[00:35:31] So that's part of what the agony is.

[00:35:33] But at the same time, you don't want to be clouded by emotions and personal, uh, feelings

[00:35:39] when you have the species of the survival at stake, which is something that gets the sisterhood

[00:35:43] in trouble later as well.

[00:35:44] But that's, that's like in the back half of the six books.

[00:35:48] Hmm.

[00:35:50] Yeah.

[00:35:50] So yeah, go for it.

[00:35:52] I just wanted to point out that, um, that they're using now, it's not the water of life.

[00:35:58] Like we see them using in the original book movies, um, which is that is based on the spice.

[00:36:04] Uh, but this is what they call the Rossack poison.

[00:36:07] And basically it's, um, experiments from, you know, they took what works with mother

[00:36:13] Raquel and experimented with it and tried to find a form that didn't kill other people.

[00:36:16] And this was what they came up with.

[00:36:18] So this is, uh, yeah, with, um, poisonous plants from Rossack.

[00:36:24] And you had mentioned this, I think in the last, uh, podcast that the, the sisters were

[00:36:28] on Rossack before they came to Wallach nine and, uh, sister Raquel accidentally got poisoned

[00:36:33] and, uh, or was it wasn't accidental.

[00:36:35] I don't think it was, it was intentional.

[00:36:37] Um, no, I thought that, no, I think she, she was poisoned, like poisoned, but then she

[00:36:41] overcame it.

[00:36:42] Yeah.

[00:36:43] Okay.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:44] And then they ended up fleeing the planet because the plague got real bad.

[00:36:48] Okay.

[00:36:49] Yeah.

[00:36:49] And they, so yeah, Wallach, Wallach nine is like the, um, nicer planets, even though the,

[00:36:56] it sounds, I'm sad.

[00:36:58] We don't see Rossack because it sounds beautiful.

[00:36:59] Like purple, silvery jungle.

[00:37:01] Interesting.

[00:37:02] But deadly.

[00:37:04] All right.

[00:37:05] Grief and blame on Seleuze secundus.

[00:37:08] Secundus.

[00:37:09] Everyone likes to say secundus.

[00:37:10] Duke Ferdinand Richese is insulted when the Carino family, uh, but not the emperor join

[00:37:18] his family to pay respects to his son Pruitt.

[00:37:21] The Duke makes threats about his fleet of fighters that were promised as part of the marriage

[00:37:26] agreement.

[00:37:27] But Empress Natalia subtly deflects his anger by blaming the boy's death on the illegal

[00:37:33] toy saying everyone is in shock, but the risks of keeping thinking machines are well known.

[00:37:40] Finger wag, finger wag, finger wag.

[00:37:43] All right.

[00:37:44] Richese, a cannon there.

[00:37:46] They are actually name dropped in the books.

[00:37:49] Yes.

[00:37:49] And actually, so there's a deeper, uh, lore with this.

[00:37:53] I, I dug into too.

[00:37:54] So as you said, yeah, they are at the beginning that there's this, um, there's this quote I

[00:38:00] copied over the whole quote from, you know, you said book one, chapter six, uh, they're

[00:38:04] mentioned once alongside a tribe of people called the Ixians, which will come up again.

[00:38:08] Um, and so this is what at one point Duke Lito says, he says few products escaped the comb

[00:38:17] touch or chome, I guess it's pronounced.

[00:38:19] Yes.

[00:38:20] Chome is usually.

[00:38:21] Yeah.

[00:38:21] That's the biggest, uh, big business conglomerate.

[00:38:24] Um, think OPEC that's, that's the direct translation from Frank Herbert's cultural historical context

[00:38:32] to future space is a corporation that controls the, uh, collection and distribution of a,

[00:38:39] a critical substance.

[00:38:40] Right.

[00:38:41] Right.

[00:38:42] Right.

[00:38:42] So few products escaped the chome touch logs, donkeys, horses, cows, lumber, dung, sharks,

[00:38:47] welfare, the most prosaic and the most exotic.

[00:38:50] Even our poor Pundi rice is from Caledon, uh, rice from Caledon, which is the planet that the

[00:38:55] Atreides came from at that time.

[00:38:57] Anything the guild will transport the arts forms of X, uh, Eccas, the machines of Richese,

[00:39:05] say, but all fades before Melange.

[00:39:08] A handful of spice will buy a home on Tupil.

[00:39:11] It cannot be manufactured.

[00:39:13] It must be mined on Arrakis.

[00:39:15] It is unique and it has true geriatric properties.

[00:39:19] So there's our Richese.

[00:39:21] So there's a couple of other things throughout the show that I've noticed where I can really

[00:39:26] tell that the showrunners and the writers have done their homework and are, uh, paying

[00:39:32] attention to the source material.

[00:39:33] Yeah.

[00:39:34] And so pulling up a name like Richese, it's, it's really, I mean, I think in the extended

[00:39:39] universe, there are some other mentions, but at least in the original book, it's one

[00:39:44] pass.

[00:39:44] It's just like, it goes by.

[00:39:46] I completely forgot that it was mentioned.

[00:39:48] But yeah, it's also, once I looked it up, it's in the appendices from, there's an entry

[00:39:53] in the terminology of the Imperium.

[00:39:55] Oh really?

[00:39:56] Oh, okay.

[00:39:57] Yeah.

[00:39:57] It says Richese, fourth planet from, because it's the name of their planet, uh, two fourth planet

[00:40:02] from Eredani, a classed with X as supreme in machine culture noted for miniaturization

[00:40:09] for a detailed study of how Richese and X escaped the more severe effects of the Butlerian

[00:40:14] Jihad.

[00:40:15] See, the last Jihad by Sumner and Keltman, which is, there's always all these in universe

[00:40:19] novels.

[00:40:20] That's not a real book you can read.

[00:40:21] But as you mentioned, they do show up.

[00:40:23] I have next, I'm going to read the legends trilogy, which is the trilogy set before the

[00:40:29] great schools, which is set during the Butlerian Jihad.

[00:40:32] Okay.

[00:40:32] Um, so I'm going to read that next.

[00:40:33] And apparently they talk about the Richese's in that as well.

[00:40:38] So, so sorry to listeners that I did not recognize them because then I also found that there's a

[00:40:45] reference in the 1984 Lynch film.

[00:40:47] Love that movie.

[00:40:49] Yeah.

[00:40:49] Hot mess.

[00:40:49] Love that movie.

[00:40:50] But a guild navigator mentions that he just visited Ix on the way to visit the emperor and

[00:40:56] he judged their machines to be better than the ones on Richese.

[00:40:59] So that's the thing.

[00:41:00] Richese is always second fiddle to Ix.

[00:41:02] Interesting.

[00:41:03] And, um, and the Dune Encyclopedia describes Richese as deserted after the Butlerian Jihad and

[00:41:09] later resettled and controlled by Ixian colonists.

[00:41:12] So I guess this family must be Ixian colonists or I don't know the Dune Encyclopedia, even

[00:41:17] though Frank Herbert wrote the intro, even his own books contradicted.

[00:41:21] So I don't know what the canonosity of that is.

[00:41:24] Um, but it's mentioned, yeah, in that Butlerian Jihad trilogy and later great house prequel novels

[00:41:30] that are set right before the original series.

[00:41:32] And it's featured in an expansion of the classic Dune board game, which I did not know existed,

[00:41:38] but now I really want.

[00:41:40] I feel pretty embarrassed now that you've pulled up all this research.

[00:41:43] I mean, yeah, I missed it.

[00:41:48] So now we know now I will never forget the name Richese.

[00:41:50] We are, we are lore hounds.

[00:41:52] We lift up the surface, we dig around and when we, we don't know something, we, we go

[00:41:56] learn about it.

[00:41:58] The classic Dune board game.

[00:41:59] I have never played it either.

[00:42:01] I know some people who have it.

[00:42:03] It is a, uh, an amazing, apparently a very cool, fun game.

[00:42:07] And to get the original on eBay, it's like several hundred dollars now to, to actually

[00:42:11] find an original copy of it.

[00:42:13] So.

[00:42:13] Oh, wow.

[00:42:14] That's good fun stuff.

[00:42:16] Um, I was really interested to see here Richese, you know, he's grieving, but he's really showing

[00:42:23] his true colors here.

[00:42:24] He's a real ass, right?

[00:42:27] He's, you know, he's, he's, uh, he's lashing out, he's controlling, he's domineering, he's

[00:42:33] threatening.

[00:42:34] And, you know, during negotiations and things like that, oh, you put on this better face,

[00:42:40] but you put somebody under strain, you put somebody under emotional duress.

[00:42:45] And, um, you know, you see different aspects of their, their, their character and their,

[00:42:50] their makeup.

[00:42:51] And he's really showing the, the controlling domineering side of, of who he is, even to

[00:42:57] the point of keeping his children in separate planets.

[00:42:59] And, you know, I'm sure he's engineering all of his, his family in specific ways that

[00:43:04] he wants.

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:06] I mean, I agree with you, but I also think every single person in that room was being

[00:43:11] an ass and, you know, especially.

[00:43:16] Like Haviko is already ready to throw Kasha under the bus.

[00:43:19] He just found out that she died.

[00:43:21] Oh yeah.

[00:43:21] And he's like, well, we'll talk about that in a next scene.

[00:43:25] But I did wonder going in, if there might be a secret alliance between Natalia and Desmond,

[00:43:31] because it seems like their goals are aligned.

[00:43:33] But I guess we saw that alliance form in this episode.

[00:43:36] Cause she definitely looks surprised when, if they found out Kasha was dead, cause I thought

[00:43:41] she could be behind that.

[00:43:42] She was not a fan of Kasha.

[00:43:44] That's right.

[00:43:45] Yeah, exactly.

[00:43:45] And it was, it's interesting.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:46] We'll talk about Natalia's attitude towards the sisterhood.

[00:43:50] Where is the little toy?

[00:43:52] I don't know.

[00:43:54] Where is this thing?

[00:43:55] This is like very.

[00:43:56] Still not in my house.

[00:43:57] Yeah.

[00:43:59] It is unaccounted for.

[00:44:00] Alicia does not have it in her possession.

[00:44:02] Therefore.

[00:44:04] But I thought it was really interesting too, that Richese is so willing to threaten the

[00:44:12] empire.

[00:44:13] It's a dangerous game.

[00:44:15] Obviously it plays out not well for him in the long run, but in his grief, he's willing

[00:44:20] to lash out at the emperor.

[00:44:22] But the emperor at this stage doesn't have the sadhkar.

[00:44:24] So, you know, he's a little bit weak.

[00:44:27] Uh, so that's interesting.

[00:44:29] Oh, you know, and I wanted to mention something too about the Rasek poison and the agony thing.

[00:44:33] You know, I, I was saying earlier that I, I'm predicting that, you know, is this the

[00:44:39] show where they're going to introduce the name Benny Jezeret?

[00:44:44] Is this the show that's going to give us sadhkar?

[00:44:47] Is this the show that's going to give us, you know, melange and the spice, the actual,

[00:44:53] you know, spice agony, as opposed to the Rasek poison?

[00:44:56] Are we going to discover it?

[00:44:57] So these are all things that I think the show could easily grab onto and introduce us, uh,

[00:45:03] you know, into the, the Villeneuve verse, uh, storylines.

[00:45:07] So we'll see.

[00:45:09] Yeah.

[00:45:10] Uh, oh, last thing on this scene too.

[00:45:12] Love the look that Shannon gives, uh, uh, Constantine.

[00:45:16] She's like, sorry, dude.

[00:45:18] Yeah.

[00:45:19] At the end.

[00:45:20] Yeah.

[00:45:20] Yeah.

[00:45:20] This is where she's, this is where she's like, I fucking him.

[00:45:23] Sorry.

[00:45:24] But she's like, Hey, you want to meet in a very public open hut later in the gardens?

[00:45:34] All right.

[00:45:35] Moving on.

[00:45:36] The emperor meets Desmond Hart, who tells him that the death of Pruitt was not a tragedy.

[00:45:40] You made your feelings regarding Pruitt and the wedding clear as it dawns on the emperor.

[00:45:46] What happened?

[00:45:46] He pleads that he was just expressing a private concern.

[00:45:50] I did not tell you to kill that boy, but you wanted me to says Hart.

[00:45:54] What I did, I did for you and I can do it again.

[00:45:59] So confirmation, dun, dun, dun, that it was Desmond Hart specifically who did do the murder.

[00:46:06] Like there's no question that he's the, he's the agent of death here.

[00:46:13] Yeah.

[00:46:13] So the question remains though, what is he?

[00:46:16] How did he do this?

[00:46:18] And we have lots of speculation.

[00:46:20] Obviously, I think the show runners are doing a good job in terms of goosing this along all

[00:46:27] of the dune heads are like, could it be this?

[00:46:28] Could it be that?

[00:46:29] We'll talk a little bit about it in the book spoiler section at the end.

[00:46:32] A lot of chatter on blue sky, a lot of chatter on our discord.

[00:46:36] So mystery, you know, they're, they're definitely laying out the tracks for the mystery.

[00:46:41] Let's just see how well they can unravel it for us.

[00:46:44] Do you have any personal theories or are you betting any particular?

[00:46:47] I mean, I honestly hope it's not any of the things it seems to be right now because I don't

[00:46:53] want it to be, I don't want us to have this weird situation where things that are developed

[00:46:59] in like the sequel novels of the original series are suddenly happening 10,000 years earlier.

[00:47:05] Right.

[00:47:06] That's also my exact concern.

[00:47:08] Yeah.

[00:47:08] And then I don't, I also don't want it to be like magic.

[00:47:11] Although I know that obviously in the show, it's a lot more magic than the hard science

[00:47:16] of the books, but still.

[00:47:18] Yeah.

[00:47:20] Yeah.

[00:47:20] I have a trending idea and we'll, we'll talk about it at the end as well.

[00:47:24] Um, there, I think they're laying some clues, but again, they could be misdirecting us quite

[00:47:29] easily.

[00:47:29] So we'll see.

[00:47:30] We're not sure yet what these showrunners, how tricksy they're, they're trying to be.

[00:47:35] I did want to point out this thing.

[00:47:38] And I mentioned it last episode, will no one rid me of this turbulent priest, which,

[00:47:44] you know, is Havako saying, well, I was just expressing a private concern in this case.

[00:47:49] I think he, he intentionally wasn't trying to hint, hint, wink, wink, you know, you know,

[00:47:54] uh, take care of the situation for me.

[00:47:57] Um, but it's this whole idea that, um, uh, direction via indirection, this idea of plausible

[00:48:06] deniability and the, this line is a true, well, you know, it's represented as being a historical

[00:48:15] line attributed to Henry II of England preceding the death of Thomas Beckett, the archbishop

[00:48:22] of Canterbury in 1170, where he makes this, you know, whether that it's actually, that's

[00:48:27] what was actually said or, or not.

[00:48:29] I'm not, I'm not a historian.

[00:48:31] So that's a little bit outside of my pay grade, but the idea that a big politician will say

[00:48:37] something that will indicate a direction, but will they have plausible deniability, they

[00:48:46] can, uh, avoid, uh, uh, being guilty of saying, you know, do this criminal act, do this immoral

[00:48:54] act and leave it up to others.

[00:48:56] But there's a rich history around Henry II and about how all of this happened.

[00:49:01] And I think it really is an interesting touch point in human history of how do people in

[00:49:09] power, uh, exercise their power either through direct statements or indirect statements and

[00:49:16] having plausible deniability.

[00:49:17] And I think this is a historical antecedent for really understanding that concept.

[00:49:24] So, um, and I, and again, I think we talked about this before.

[00:49:27] Haviko is just, he's very weak, but Mark Strong is playing him brilliantly in a lot of ways.

[00:49:32] He's playing him strong.

[00:49:33] No, sorry.

[00:49:35] Mark Strong.

[00:49:37] All right.

[00:49:38] Uh, carrying on.

[00:49:40] No, this is madness, says Haviko, calling his guards to take heart to the suspensor cells.

[00:49:45] Suspensor cells.

[00:49:46] Dun, dun, dun.

[00:49:47] And then he asks a sword master, Kyrian Atreides, to keep the holding of heart secret.

[00:49:51] So Strong's really, um, uh, sorry, not Haviko is really keeping, trying to keep secrets.

[00:49:57] And he even tells Valia later, keep this secret.

[00:50:00] So he's trying to compartmentalize information, which I think ultimately is going to be his

[00:50:04] downfall.

[00:50:05] Would you rather Alicia, a sky cell from game of Thrones, uh, from the eerie or a suspensor

[00:50:13] cell in, uh, uh, on Seleuza Secundus?

[00:50:17] Sky cell, no con no contest.

[00:50:20] Oh, really?

[00:50:21] Yeah.

[00:50:22] Open air, sunshine?

[00:50:23] Well, yeah.

[00:50:24] And you get a nice view at least, but mostly like I being pinned in place would just be

[00:50:28] very bad for me psychologically.

[00:50:30] At least in a sky cell, I can move around my little cell and I'm not, I'm not afraid

[00:50:35] of heights.

[00:50:35] So I like heights.

[00:50:37] So that's the thing about the sky cell that terrified me was like waking up and what I

[00:50:41] think, and I think that that's what happens to, to, uh, is he's just waking up on the edge.

[00:50:46] I, I, that would terrify me.

[00:50:48] That would absolutely terrify me.

[00:50:49] So I might go suspense or sell just for the warmth and comfort of at least, uh, not having

[00:50:55] to worry about it's safer and warmer.

[00:50:57] Yes, exactly.

[00:50:59] So this seems to be a show invention.

[00:51:00] I don't think we have sky cells mentioned.

[00:51:02] I could be wrong and we could have a whole bunch of research, but again, it's just using the

[00:51:06] whole anti-grav technology, which are Holtzman's fields and, and more stuff.

[00:51:11] I, in, in the great schools trilogy, one point they are like talking about prisoners, but

[00:51:16] they are like literally, they are inside a ship.

[00:51:19] They're not on Seleucus secondists, at least what I'm thinking of, but they are chained.

[00:51:23] Okay.

[00:51:25] And we have some feedback from Jordan who also pointed out some stuff about the Richese family,

[00:51:29] but also mentioned some Holtzman stuff.

[00:51:31] And we'll get to that when we get into the feedback.

[00:51:34] Um, and, uh, yeah, it doesn't seem like Desmond is very bothered by being arrested.

[00:51:40] He's like, sure.

[00:51:41] Okay.

[00:51:42] This won't last.

[00:51:44] I wish somebody would just get him a new uniform.

[00:51:46] I'm tired of seeing this duster.

[00:51:48] Like he's walking around with his dusty old jacket.

[00:51:51] It's his brand.

[00:51:52] It's his brand.

[00:51:53] He's like, look, I'm, I'm a Rackis man.

[00:51:56] I love it.

[00:51:58] All right.

[00:51:58] Havako's son, Constantine, uh, has a, uh, little fling with Ferdinand's daughter, Shannon.

[00:52:04] Shannon says she didn't know her younger brother.

[00:52:06] Oh, you know what?

[00:52:07] I, I misattributed the look Shannon gives Constantine earlier.

[00:52:12] There's the later one when they, when, when it turns out that she told her father.

[00:52:16] Anyway, Shannon says she didn't know her younger brother well or care much for him, but feels

[00:52:20] that how he died was especially cruel.

[00:52:24] Uh, I doubt my family will ever make peace with it.

[00:52:28] And then, uh, in discussing the source of power, Shannon explains that the Imperial palace

[00:52:34] is not the source of power.

[00:52:36] Real power is whoever controls the desert planet, the great houses, the Spicing Guild, the sisterhood.

[00:52:42] They all know that.

[00:52:43] What matters is who controls those flakes of orange dust.

[00:52:48] Unfortunately, the allusion to Arrakis causes Constantine to blurt out that they have a soldier

[00:52:53] in custody who is from Arrakis.

[00:52:57] All right.

[00:52:58] Sex scene, HBO, 9 PM, prestige television.

[00:53:03] HBO just couldn't resist.

[00:53:05] Yeah.

[00:53:05] I mean, I don't, yeah, it didn't, um, for me it didn't really work.

[00:53:10] And also because like, uh, what is this supposed to make me think about Constantine?

[00:53:14] I guess I'm supposed to think that he's kind of just, he really is the sort of airheaded

[00:53:19] Playboy that he's been painted as so far.

[00:53:22] Right.

[00:53:23] Um, so I'm not sure what that's supposed to contribute.

[00:53:27] Uh, it didn't make me, I didn't have like, I didn't feel chemistry between the two of them.

[00:53:35] You know, like it felt like going through the motions.

[00:53:38] I'm like, Oh, why am I watching this?

[00:53:39] Like, I don't know.

[00:53:40] I'm not usually approved, but this just did not work for me.

[00:53:44] Yeah.

[00:53:44] It was gratuitous.

[00:53:45] And as John, our other host, uh, likes to mention, like if it advances character, fine.

[00:53:51] If it doesn't, and it's just for the sake of the scene, uh, then that's, that's a little

[00:53:55] problem.

[00:53:55] And I think it was just like about ogling the actress, you know?

[00:53:59] Exactly.

[00:54:00] There was a funny comment by Rocky Zim on our, uh, discord.

[00:54:03] One of our, um, uh, subscribers and frequent contributors said he was watching the show and

[00:54:08] his wife walked in and asked him if he was watching the porno.

[00:54:12] It's like, well, you kind of are.

[00:54:14] But he also said, uh, that he asks her the same about Bridgerton, which is also fair.

[00:54:20] Which I love that as well.

[00:54:23] Very funny.

[00:54:24] And we've got some more feedback about, uh, the whole thing, uh, later on.

[00:54:28] So was that Samuda, that drug?

[00:54:31] Because it's certainly not Melange.

[00:54:33] No, it was definitely not Melange.

[00:54:35] No.

[00:54:35] Yeah.

[00:54:36] Yeah.

[00:54:37] I thought the, the, the power, the little powder on the hand was a little kind of awkward CGI

[00:54:43] and it's sort of the same, like with smoking cigarettes.

[00:54:48] I don't know.

[00:54:49] I, I, I've been around the block a few times enough to know when somebody who's faking it

[00:54:54] and it's like, you guys don't know how to bump.

[00:54:56] Like neither of these actors have ever done a bump off of somebody's back of their hand.

[00:55:00] So, I mean, good for them, but like, yeah.

[00:55:02] Exactly.

[00:55:02] Um, well, I think maybe if it is CGI, that could be a factor.

[00:55:07] Like, cause they probably weren't having them actually snort something.

[00:55:10] No.

[00:55:10] Yeah.

[00:55:10] And then, so it looks fake.

[00:55:13] Yeah.

[00:55:13] Yeah.

[00:55:13] Yeah.

[00:55:14] It, it, just the way that they were holding her hand.

[00:55:16] You can tell when somebody is picking up a prop that's not actually heavy, but it's

[00:55:19] like a foam thing.

[00:55:20] This happened in rings of power a couple of times where they have these big, great double

[00:55:24] axes and they're like, Oh, they're feather light there.

[00:55:27] Cause you got a, you got a fake picking up something heavy, look kind of weird.

[00:55:30] Anyway, it didn't take me out too badly.

[00:55:32] Um, but I think this whole question of where power resides, that's an interesting topic of

[00:55:38] conversation.

[00:55:39] And it, it sort of made me think of that, um, quote from Varys, that riddle from Varys

[00:55:44] from a game of Thrones where, uh, power resides, where men believes it resides.

[00:55:50] But this is different because in this case, there's a commodity that people can't do without.

[00:55:58] So we end up with a different equation and there is an object that can be controlled and

[00:56:05] that changes how power is, um, how people, uh, arrange themselves to have access and to

[00:56:14] control that resource.

[00:56:15] And then that made me think a little bit of this idea that the sisterhood they've commodified

[00:56:20] truth and put themselves as power brokers of truth between the houses of family, you know,

[00:56:25] the, the great houses and in business dealings and political dealings, the richeys, they,

[00:56:31] they're trading in arms and technology.

[00:56:33] So that's a power center that they can, you know, based on a commodity.

[00:56:37] And then I, it made me think about the Carinos, they have the appearance of power, but they

[00:56:45] don't have a lot of leverage right now because they don't have something that's unique that

[00:56:50] they can control until they have the Saddukar later where they can actually threaten the existence

[00:56:59] of any other noble house, um, quite effectively.

[00:57:03] So the Carinos at this point don't have a leverage on power at all.

[00:57:07] Right.

[00:57:08] That's why they so desperately need Arrakis.

[00:57:11] Exactly.

[00:57:11] And then they're having trouble keeping Arrakis, obviously, because the sisters are

[00:57:17] conspiring against them.

[00:57:18] But yeah, I just thought it was, uh, uh, that this idea of, of, well, if you don't have an,

[00:57:25] a commodity, then how do people organize power?

[00:57:28] Or while they believe, uh, power resides where they, where, where men believe it, it does.

[00:57:35] So, all right.

[00:57:38] Moving on in shock, Havikos speaks with Natalia.

[00:57:41] He believes he will be blamed by the Recheze family for ordering Pruitt's death because it

[00:57:47] was carried out by one of his own soldiers.

[00:57:49] He tells Natalia about Hart's supposed story.

[00:57:52] He claims to have been swallowed by a sandworm, the Shai Hulud.

[00:57:56] The worm gave him a gift, some kind of power.

[00:57:58] He's obviously insane.

[00:58:00] The Empress sees the situation with Hart differently.

[00:58:03] There are many who would turn their weapons against us.

[00:58:06] And this man pledges his in our defense.

[00:58:10] Let's not rush to execute our friends to please our enemies.

[00:58:16] I really liked that line.

[00:58:18] There's some cringy writing later on, but that was a really nice line right there.

[00:58:21] Yeah, that's a good line.

[00:58:23] Yeah, I thought it's a good line.

[00:58:24] And I agree with your note here that Natalia, using the name Shai Hulud, did throw me a little

[00:58:29] bit because that's a name.

[00:58:31] You would expect a Fremen to say that.

[00:58:33] Like Michaela saying that would make sense.

[00:58:35] Right.

[00:58:37] But yeah, I wonder if this just goes along with Natalia's zealotry.

[00:58:43] We don't really know much about where she comes from and what her background is.

[00:58:46] We just know she seems to be very Butlerian, you know, anti-machines.

[00:58:52] Right, right.

[00:58:53] And I think Havico says to Desmond Hart when they're having the little chat out on his patio,

[00:59:03] he says, religion is the refuge of my wife or something to the effect that it's my wife

[00:59:08] who's the religious one, I'm not.

[00:59:10] And so we could see.

[00:59:12] So are they doing something with Natalia?

[00:59:14] Are they connecting her to some of the more quasi-religious aspects of, and why would you

[00:59:20] know Shai Hulud?

[00:59:22] Like, yeah, it just doesn't make sense.

[00:59:24] Unless they're intentionally doing that.

[00:59:26] Or they.

[00:59:27] Well, because, you know, you point out that she's, Natalia is very interested in what happened

[00:59:34] with Desmond there.

[00:59:35] It seems like maybe she does already have an interest in this culture.

[00:59:42] But of course, yeah, they don't know yet about certain connections between the Spice and

[00:59:50] other things.

[00:59:51] I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.

[00:59:55] Skirt the line.

[00:59:56] I mean, they're not going to find out.

[00:59:57] Yeah, that's something they find out in the original book series.

[01:00:01] Right.

[01:00:02] Yeah, yeah.

[01:00:03] Yeah, so, but I do like that Natalia, you know, they're showing us that she's more of

[01:00:10] a power player, that she understands the levers of power and how to utilize power better than

[01:00:14] her husband does.

[01:00:15] And we get that early indication in episode one where she's like, yeah, dude, I brokered

[01:00:19] our wedding.

[01:00:20] So come on, man.

[01:00:21] Like, you know, get with the program here.

[01:00:24] I'm not a trophy wife.

[01:00:26] I am a power of my own right.

[01:00:28] And I like to see that she's exercising that agency, even if I don't necessarily align with

[01:00:33] her particular goals.

[01:00:35] We'll see.

[01:00:36] Right.

[01:00:37] No.

[01:00:38] And I think it also just shows how much Haviko depended on Kasia.

[01:00:46] Uh-huh.

[01:00:47] Right.

[01:00:47] He was like, oh, you know, I didn't have this person speaking.

[01:00:50] So they've, Kasia's done a really good job of creating a dependency from, of Haviko to

[01:00:56] her.

[01:00:56] And maybe that's an interesting point is, is if Kasia's not there, then because he's

[01:01:05] kind of a weak man, he is being more swayed by Natalia.

[01:01:08] Whereas in episode one, he was like, oh, well, we don't see eye to eye.

[01:01:12] We don't have the same memories because he had Kasia to rely, not the dependence that

[01:01:18] he had on Kasia, who was constantly steering him and sort of subtly manipulating him with

[01:01:23] her out of the picture.

[01:01:24] Now Natalia has maybe a greater input, a greater sway with what he's thinking.

[01:01:31] Yeah.

[01:01:34] All right.

[01:01:35] Uh, we've kind of talked about Desmond Hart enough already and about what the central

[01:01:39] mystery is.

[01:01:40] And, uh, you know, I like the idea of having a murder mystery at the center of the story,

[01:01:45] but I don't know.

[01:01:46] I'm, I'm nervous about how this is going.

[01:01:48] I'm, I'm hopeful, but nervous, I guess I could say.

[01:01:51] Yeah.

[01:01:53] So the agony.

[01:01:56] Tula makes a hard choice to approach Lila to tell her that she's the great, great

[01:02:01] granddaughter of Raquel and that the sisterhood needs her to unlock her genetic memory.

[01:02:07] Lila needs to attempt the Rossock poisoning process known as the agony to connect with

[01:02:12] Raquel.

[01:02:13] As she lay dying, Raquel prophesized of an enemy and a reckoning that would destroy the

[01:02:19] sisterhood.

[01:02:20] Tula explains, we believe that reckoning, that that reckoning is here.

[01:02:25] We think she will know how to fight it, but she lets Lila know that it must be your choice.

[01:02:32] Thoughts?

[01:02:34] Um, I mean, yeah, I think I, I shared, you know, I think that basically, well, oh, that's

[01:02:42] what they said about the two wolves.

[01:02:44] I think that they said that the Harkonnen sisters are the two wolves because, um, Valya

[01:02:50] is basically, she's, she's like, okay, let's throw Lila under the bus.

[01:02:54] You know, let's force her to go through this dangerous, um, this dangerous transformation

[01:02:59] that she's not prepared for yet.

[01:03:02] Uh-huh.

[01:03:02] And, um, Tula, of course, hates that because she sees herself as Lila's mother in a way,

[01:03:08] but, um, she still allows it.

[01:03:11] So does that make her any better?

[01:03:14] Interesting.

[01:03:14] Yeah.

[01:03:15] The two wolves of the sisters.

[01:03:16] That's interesting.

[01:03:17] Um, I thought it was interesting that they, they also mentioned that Raquel experienced the

[01:03:22] moment of prescience.

[01:03:23] So this ability to see into the future, and that is a nice little lore touch right there.

[01:03:30] A lot of the original books have the big, a big subtext is prescience and the human beings

[01:03:39] desire to know the future as a way for us to navigate things.

[01:03:43] But I, I would say that Frank Herbert was arguing against prescience and saying that that's actually

[01:03:51] a dangerous thing because it's how we would genetically, uh, bottleneck ourselves as a species.

[01:03:56] And that there's tension that, you know, that we need to be on the edge, on the forefront of,

[01:04:02] of experiencing things that we cannot predict.

[01:04:05] And then that's how we continue as a species, uh, to, to evolve and to change.

[01:04:11] And then of course we have the, the, the, the, the prophecy of the Tyran Arfel, which is a,

[01:04:19] um, a tyrant induced reckoning.

[01:04:22] Um, and so they want Lila to get in touch with her other memories and we'll, we'll get

[01:04:28] into a big conversation about that later.

[01:04:31] Um, what did you think of the, the connection of Lila to Raquel?

[01:04:38] Did you have, did you buy that, that, that was a particular storyline?

[01:04:43] Um, would you want me to get into the whole genetics thing?

[01:04:47] Um, because.

[01:04:48] I guess we might as well start on it now.

[01:04:52] Yeah, go ahead.

[01:04:52] Okay.

[01:04:54] So, I mean, I said, okay.

[01:04:56] So as soon as they said that, I was like, she must be Dorothea's granddaughter in the books.

[01:05:02] Now, somebody correct me if I'm forgetting something, but I'm pretty sure there's no mention of

[01:05:05] Dorothea having children.

[01:05:07] Plus the other issue is that the way it's presented in the books again, so couldn't be different in

[01:05:12] the show, but it's that basically you remember, or the, you know, when you speak to your ancestors,

[01:05:19] you have their memories up until the moment the next generation is born, which makes sense in a way.

[01:05:25] And then there's later on, you know, maybe they find another way to unlock it.

[01:05:28] But again, I don't want things that are a big part of the original series to happen 10,000 years early.

[01:05:33] So somebody, I can't remember if it was on our discord or Reddit or something, or blue sky, but

[01:05:39] somebody, uh, suggested maybe they took some posthumously took some eggs from Dorothea because

[01:05:47] they wanted Raquel's line to continue.

[01:05:50] And that would explain those things.

[01:05:52] Okay.

[01:05:53] So that's going to be my headcanon until it happens, but it's also, but I do still have

[01:05:57] the question that like, then why, why wouldn't, um, Lila see her own mother there?

[01:06:04] Because she should, it's not, you don't have to be dead to show up there.

[01:06:07] You're in the genetic memory, whether you're alive or dead.

[01:06:10] Right.

[01:06:11] Exactly.

[01:06:12] Exactly.

[01:06:13] Yeah.

[01:06:13] And I think we can talk about it more later too, but this idea of like, well, I'm not trained

[01:06:18] to not, I'm not ready to do this yet.

[01:06:20] We see why you need training.

[01:06:22] There's not only the ability to metabolize the poison, but you need to be psychologically

[01:06:30] strong enough to withstand the onslaught of the other memories come, you know, that are,

[01:06:36] that are rushing at you.

[01:06:39] Nevermind Dorothea herself, but just all these other memories coming at you, you need to be

[01:06:44] able to, uh, manage and negotiate that.

[01:06:47] And I think even Trula says at some point, you don't get to choose, you don't always choose

[01:06:51] who you get to talk to.

[01:06:52] Some voices are louder and stronger.

[01:06:54] Um, and so that's a really important aspect of being prepared for the, uh, uh, spice or

[01:07:02] the agony and then unlocking your other memories.

[01:07:05] All right.

[01:07:06] Lila seeks advice from sister Emmeline.

[01:07:10] Emmeline's family sacrificed itself during the Butlerian Jihad.

[01:07:14] Human life is sacred.

[01:07:16] That is why there's no greater honor than to give it in death.

[01:07:19] We will be reunited with our foremothers.

[01:07:22] The dead aren't gone.

[01:07:25] Human life is sacred.

[01:07:26] Uh, I think this is, uh, also another big tension that gets set up in the books and this

[01:07:32] idea that when we give over our control and our agency to forces, uh, that, uh, you know,

[01:07:43] to machines or to other things, then we are, um, uh, we're sort of disfiguring ourselves in

[01:07:51] some way.

[01:07:51] And so there's a, there's a strong religious, almost religious ferventry about the sacredness

[01:07:57] of human life.

[01:07:57] And then, and you'll make no machine in the, oh, what's the line that make no machine like

[01:08:02] not in the likeness.

[01:08:04] I think in the likeness of a human mind is the, is the commandment.

[01:08:08] Uh, I have to remember.

[01:08:10] Yeah.

[01:08:10] Anyway, the, uh, and then there's a really strong theme of martyrdom here, which sort of gets

[01:08:19] us into the, uh, the whole, uh, idea of, um, sacrifice and, uh, uh, the trolley problem,

[01:08:29] the sort of philosophical trolley problem thing.

[01:08:32] But I really liked in this scene too, where, uh, Emmeline moves the curtain back, which is

[01:08:36] a great metaphor for sort of drawing back the veil of ignorance and having this authentic,

[01:08:42] truthful moment.

[01:08:42] But I was like, why can't this is, it looks cool with the net curtain there, you know,

[01:08:47] it looks like a cozy little space, but I'm like, can't, I hope she has also opaque curtains

[01:08:52] behind there because come on, give a girl some privacy.

[01:08:57] It's true.

[01:08:58] The Emmeline mentions the word pulse atomics.

[01:09:01] Are you familiar with that term?

[01:09:03] That, that might be another XD thing that I'm picking up.

[01:09:06] Well, like I, I, I don't recall that from the great schools.

[01:09:10] There are definitely atomics play a big role and particularly the last book of the great

[01:09:14] schools.

[01:09:14] But, uh, this would be, this is a story from the, um, this would be from the legends trilogy,

[01:09:20] uh, which I, like I said, I haven't read yet, but, um, will soon.

[01:09:25] Um, I don't know.

[01:09:26] It could be something like the ballistic ships they make and it just makes sense.

[01:09:29] Like, okay.

[01:09:30] Yeah.

[01:09:30] I understand what that is.

[01:09:31] Sure.

[01:09:32] Right.

[01:09:33] So we'll see.

[01:09:34] And if you, if you know, let us know right in dune at the lore house.com.

[01:09:39] All right.

[01:09:39] Uh, when they named out from a, from a lore standpoint here, they drop Raina Butler and

[01:09:44] the battle of Corrin both get, uh, name dropped.

[01:09:47] We have on our show guide, a glossary Nancy, who is a true godsend went through and she

[01:09:55] had like pages and pages and pages of notes.

[01:09:57] She does did a serious deep dive and actually put together this massive glossary that's

[01:10:03] in our show guide.

[01:10:03] So if you're like, who's Raina Butler, what's the battle of Corrin, what's the

[01:10:07] Butlerian Jihad.

[01:10:08] And you just need some quick notes without going out onto the big internet and searching

[01:10:12] where you can end up being spoiled.

[01:10:14] We have very, uh, uh, what's the word I want to say curated, curated glossary definitions

[01:10:20] so that you can, uh, be refreshed on what that lore is without, you know, being spoiled

[01:10:25] to the wider story.

[01:10:27] Will that be linked in the show notes?

[01:10:28] Yes, that will.

[01:10:29] There's a link in the show notes for that, uh, directly.

[01:10:32] So, all right.

[01:10:34] Uh, at the end of the scene, well, sort of on the four part of the scene, we have a sort

[01:10:39] of a front back, uh, little scenes of Tula collecting some moss from beside the pool in

[01:10:46] the central area where a lot of things happen.

[01:10:48] It's sort of the eye motif and a lot of dramatic things happen in this area.

[01:10:53] Later, we know that she uses this to make the Rosseck poison.

[01:10:58] And, and then at the end we see Tula preparing the poison as she's constructed, uh, confronted

[01:11:05] by Avila, another one of the sisters.

[01:11:08] And interesting, Tula says, it's my own experiment.

[01:11:12] So is she, has she been experimenting with the Rosseck poison in a, in a different way?

[01:11:18] Is she modifying the poison in some way?

[01:11:21] Well, so we'll talk about this, um, prophecy at the end, but I do wonder if, because they,

[01:11:28] yeah, like I said, they have a lot of problems with the Rosseck poison, with the killing people

[01:11:32] or giving people brain damage.

[01:11:33] Um, so they have been in general, they've all been kind of experimenting with it to try

[01:11:40] to find the right way to do it.

[01:11:42] And then I think maybe this is something we'll see in the show where they're like, Oh, spice.

[01:11:47] That's the one that's the best.

[01:11:51] It feels like they're heading that direction, doesn't it?

[01:11:53] Yeah.

[01:11:54] Uh, I, when Avila challenges Tula and says that, you know, the lives of all the sisters hang

[01:12:01] in the balance here and whether we should give Lila, you know, uh, the agency to choose

[01:12:05] for herself.

[01:12:06] I really, obviously it's the trolley problem, uh, thing.

[01:12:10] But then of course my mind went to the wrath of con and with Kirk and Spock, the needs of

[01:12:16] the many that outweigh the few are the one.

[01:12:18] So, uh, I had a nice crossover moment there.

[01:12:21] Uh, and then I also thought about Jessica who is another sister who chooses for herself

[01:12:27] that changes the whole balance of thing where she's like, I'm going to make this decision

[01:12:31] because I want to, not because the sisterhood is telling me to do so.

[01:12:34] So individual agency versus this collective knowledge, plan, wisdom thing that the sisters

[01:12:39] have going on.

[01:12:40] But if they managed to control sisters for 10,000 years to create this lineage leading

[01:12:46] up to Jessica, wow.

[01:12:48] Yeah.

[01:12:50] You can understand why, uh, Mohiam might be a Reverend Mohiam might be a little bit pissed

[01:12:55] off at her student.

[01:12:57] Slash daughter.

[01:12:59] Yes.

[01:12:59] Right.

[01:13:00] Right.

[01:13:00] Uh, all right.

[01:13:03] Later in the episode, Jen and Lila speak in the library.

[01:13:05] Lila tries to explain what she can do, but Jen says that they're only using her.

[01:13:10] They don't care about you.

[01:13:11] Not like they care about the order as a whole.

[01:13:15] I was a little shocked at, um, Jen's anti sisterhood bent here, like that they're allowing

[01:13:21] her to, you know, I mean, I think they're, they're establishing her indeed as a bit of a

[01:13:26] loose cannon.

[01:13:27] And, you know, she was the same one in the last episode who told the story that Lila

[01:13:31] determined was part truth, part lie about killing the person who basically had her as

[01:13:38] a sex slave and then killing her parents for selling her.

[01:13:41] We don't know how much of that is true, but yeah, this may have cultivated a personality

[01:13:47] of more like you gotta take care of yourself because no one else is going to take care of

[01:13:51] you.

[01:13:52] Right.

[01:13:53] Right.

[01:13:54] Right.

[01:13:54] Well, then later in the episode, Lila is told by Tula that her mother died giving birth

[01:13:58] to her.

[01:13:59] Lila believes that she would see her mother in the other memories and that sort of uses

[01:14:03] that as a motivation to go ahead and go through with the, uh, uh, with the agony.

[01:14:08] Tula says while she might see her mother, there are other options.

[01:14:12] I don't know if she was just giving Lila the sense that she could choose.

[01:14:16] Oh, don't worry.

[01:14:17] If you really don't want to do this, we'll figure something else out.

[01:14:19] If, if that's all part of the gaslighting she was leading her there.

[01:14:22] Yeah.

[01:14:23] Yeah.

[01:14:24] Yeah.

[01:14:24] Like, and, and, yeah.

[01:14:25] And it comes, turns out later that it, it does seem to be a lie about like, because

[01:14:29] Dorotea says to her like, oh, is that what, uh, first of all, how does Dorotea know this?

[01:14:33] I don't know, but just, okay.

[01:14:35] Stepping away from that.

[01:14:36] Um, yeah, apparently Dorotea implied that it was a lie.

[01:14:42] Right.

[01:14:43] Well, and this goes to this whole theme of sisterhood above all, right?

[01:14:46] That, that, you know, I believe in our mission as a, as a sisterhood and that we're trying

[01:14:50] to guide the genetic future of our, of our species.

[01:14:55] And I love how they're constantly weaving in the shadow of Raquel, uh, looming large over

[01:15:02] everything with this giant, uh, statue, statue mural thing.

[01:15:07] It's, it's beautiful.

[01:15:08] Like it's a beautiful piece of artwork, but it really does, you know, uh, it's like,

[01:15:13] oh, well, this is a nice remember.

[01:15:14] It's actually, you know, no, she's like pressing down on everything.

[01:15:17] And then we'll find it's, uh, we'll find it's carbon.

[01:15:21] What's it called?

[01:15:23] Oh, she's been carbon frozen.

[01:15:25] Yeah, exactly.

[01:15:26] Yeah.

[01:15:26] And open it and Han Solo comes out now.

[01:15:30] The, there was something else that bothered me a little bit in the scene, which is, um,

[01:15:34] Tula gave Lila this most precious keepsake, which is a, I'm maybe a whale's tooth.

[01:15:40] I don't know.

[01:15:41] It is a whale's tooth.

[01:15:41] And I know, I know it's a whale's tooth.

[01:15:43] Cause at first I was like, oh, it's a horn.

[01:15:44] And then I, when I watched the episode with audio description, they're like a whale's

[01:15:48] tooth.

[01:15:48] I'm like, that makes sense.

[01:15:49] Cause that's what the Harkonnen straight in whales.

[01:15:52] Exactly.

[01:15:53] Exactly.

[01:15:53] From, from, um, what was that?

[01:15:55] Lankovell is the planet that they're on.

[01:15:58] I just kind of felt it was a little bit of a transparent writer's plot.

[01:16:02] So that when Lila is going through the agony and she, you know, and she passed out, she

[01:16:06] drops it and it's, oh, it's a big dramatic moment.

[01:16:09] And I was like, cause otherwise what is the keepsake for?

[01:16:13] I mean, I guess to show the mother daughter bond.

[01:16:16] Yeah, exactly.

[01:16:17] Which I think is good because I think we really do need to explore that idea of the sisterhood

[01:16:23] overall over familiar bonds.

[01:16:26] That's why they don't tell sisters who their parents are.

[01:16:29] So they don't form these individual attachments that then emotionally could cloud their judgment

[01:16:36] in a moment of crisis.

[01:16:38] What's the, what's the decision?

[01:16:40] What's the choice that's going to secure the future of the human species versus, oh, I just

[01:16:46] want to live in the here and the now, uh, and, and have my emotional response to things.

[01:16:51] Uh, all right, let's take a quick break.

[01:16:55] And then on the other side, we will jump back to Seleuza Secundus.

[01:17:13] And we're back picking up the storyline on Seleuza Secundus truth and more truth and lies.

[01:17:21] Valia and Theodosia arrive at the spaceport and Valia gives Theodosia her mission, befriend

[01:17:28] the princess and don't be distracted or intimidated by the powerful people around you.

[01:17:35] I don't think there's much to this scene.

[01:17:36] It just seemed like, uh, some good world building going on here with a spaceport and the name,

[01:17:43] uh, of the city escapes me at a moment.

[01:17:46] I know we have it somewhere in our notes here.

[01:17:47] But the spaceport actually reminded me of an, uh, Zimia.

[01:17:52] Zimia, that's it.

[01:17:52] Yeah.

[01:17:53] Um, but the spaceport actually reminded me of in the sisterhood of Dunebook, the part where

[01:17:59] Vorian Atreides, he has to go to a city where they do slave trading to rescue some people.

[01:18:06] Right.

[01:18:07] To me, like what I pictured in my head during that is exactly what I see in the spaceport

[01:18:12] there, which would make sense, you know, spaceport, spaceport, but yeah.

[01:18:15] Right.

[01:18:16] And I think if you look, there are some other, if you have read some of the other stories

[01:18:21] and books, I think some of the way the city is laid out and there's like sort of this

[01:18:25] central Coliseum like thing, I think those are all part of a, a previous noble houses

[01:18:30] parliament, uh, thing.

[01:18:32] So there's probably some subtle world building in there, but I do like this idea that Valia

[01:18:38] is using their unannounced arrival to catch them off guard.

[01:18:41] So that, that the reactions like, oh my God, what are you doing here?

[01:18:44] That is going to give her some insights as to what's going on and who is positioned, positioning

[01:18:51] themselves where in this.

[01:18:52] So, you know, smart political maneuvering.

[01:18:55] Valia interrupts Ferdinand pressing Havico to allow his security forces to interrogate

[01:19:00] the prisoner.

[01:19:01] Valia uses her truth-sayer abilities to see that Havico is lying to Ferdinand about

[01:19:07] there, anyone being, being anyone in custody.

[01:19:10] She also uses hand signals to message the Richese truth-sayer to remove the Duke from the

[01:19:17] room.

[01:19:18] This is not over, threatens the Duke.

[01:19:21] Dun, dun, dun.

[01:19:22] Hmm.

[01:19:23] Hmm.

[01:19:23] So I was wondering, first of all, Havico says to him at the beginning that he knows how

[01:19:28] it feels to lose a child.

[01:19:29] Now, I guess by the, uh, first I was like, wait, did he have more kids that died?

[01:19:33] But I guess he means when they were kidnapped that we learn about later in the episode.

[01:19:38] Right.

[01:19:38] Um, yeah.

[01:19:40] And he's so mad at, at Constantine.

[01:19:43] He's like, just go back to playing your ballast side.

[01:19:46] Like, come on.

[01:19:47] Like right now I'm like, yeah, Constantine, what are you bringing to the table?

[01:19:50] Other than that?

[01:19:52] Idiot bastard.

[01:19:54] That was a very harshly flung line.

[01:19:57] Uh, and then that, that, uh, that's, this is when Shannon gives him the sorry, not sorry

[01:20:03] shrug, which I think is hilarious.

[01:20:05] It was a really well played by the actress.

[01:20:07] She was like, yeah, yeah.

[01:20:08] I used you twice for information and other reasons.

[01:20:11] Right.

[01:20:12] Well, I mean, I could have told him that in the moment, especially when she was like, oh,

[01:20:16] here, take one more bump of the glowing space cocaine.

[01:20:20] And, uh, and he's like, well, I won't be good for anything.

[01:20:23] She's like, no, you'll be.

[01:20:24] And so it's implied.

[01:20:25] She's saying you'll be good for sex.

[01:20:26] But I'm like, she means I'm getting information out of you.

[01:20:28] Cause as soon as he brought up during their sex scene that like, oh yeah.

[01:20:34] And there's a prisoner.

[01:20:35] She's tell me more about this prisoner.

[01:20:36] I want all the information about this prisoner.

[01:20:38] Like, come on, Constantine and come on.

[01:20:42] Yeah.

[01:20:42] Not very smart.

[01:20:44] Uh, I, something I thought about too, with Valia showing up, you know,

[01:20:49] she's just wearing a simple, uh, hat and veil, uh, thing.

[01:20:53] Whereas all of the truth sayers have these elaborate headdresses.

[01:20:57] And I know, I remember you had mentioned before that part of that lore of that was having to

[01:21:03] do with the thinking machines and how to disguise themselves from the machines and as identifying

[01:21:08] them as human beings.

[01:21:09] But the other thing that it does is it's kind of weird and intimidating to have this big,

[01:21:15] tall headdress, but then the veil that the truth sayers wear

[01:21:19] really hides their faces really well.

[01:21:21] So you can't see emotion on their face.

[01:21:23] You can't see where their eyes are looking.

[01:21:25] You know, uh, it does a good job of obscuring them, which in contrast, mother superior shows

[01:21:32] up and you can totally see her face.

[01:21:34] And she's like, I'm the mother superior, you know, you know, I, I'm, I'm in charge of

[01:21:40] all this.

[01:21:40] So, you know, I can show my face and I'm not worried about what you see or think or,

[01:21:44] or, you know, I'm not giving away any secrets that you, you're going to be able to understand.

[01:21:49] I noticed that you have in the notes and I noticed this too, this they've been showing

[01:21:53] cause people have been asking questions about like, what's with the breathing and like the

[01:21:58] things they're doing with their hands when they're using the true sense.

[01:22:00] So yeah, that it's a shortcut that helps them get into a deeper meditative state so that they

[01:22:07] can, you know, do this deep perception that there's actually behind the truth sense.

[01:22:11] And, um, this is something I think people do versions of in real life.

[01:22:16] You know, you use breathing exercises or a word of concentration like OM or something

[01:22:21] to help you get into a meditative state.

[01:22:23] But also, um, the Aes Sedai we've talked about from the wheel of time are heavily influenced

[01:22:29] by the Bene Gesserit.

[01:22:31] And, um, they have a thing where they have, they use hand gestures in order to channel

[01:22:37] in their world.

[01:22:38] And so then because they've learned it that way, if they lose their hands for some reason,

[01:22:44] um, they can no longer do the magic quote unquote that they used to do.

[01:22:50] Uh, whereas others, if you don't learn with these tools, then you're not hampered by them

[01:22:58] if you lose your hands or something.

[01:22:59] So it's not like that they have to do that in order to get into it.

[01:23:03] It just helps them.

[01:23:05] Kind of an on switch.

[01:23:07] Yeah.

[01:23:08] To, to go into this, this deeper thing.

[01:23:10] All right.

[01:23:11] Havako learns from Valya that Kasha has died and been burned the same way as Pruitt.

[01:23:17] Valya demands to interrogate the man being held.

[01:23:19] Havako tries to lie, but the Empress intervenes and convince him, convinces him that Mother

[01:23:25] Superior will act as their personal truth share.

[01:23:29] So here we get into CSI sisterhood, you know, like, uh, we're getting, we've been getting

[01:23:35] a bunch of that already all along, but, uh, I don't know.

[01:23:38] I just had to, it made, it tickled me to think of it that way.

[01:23:41] And then what is Havako trying to do to lie to the Mother Superior?

[01:23:45] Like, dude, what the, what the hell?

[01:23:47] I laughed at that.

[01:23:48] I was like, that's really cute.

[01:23:49] That's really cute, buddy.

[01:23:50] Like, I don't think he probably couldn't even get away with lying to Kasha.

[01:23:55] And this is, you know, the Mother Superior.

[01:23:58] The Mother Superior.

[01:23:59] And then we talked, we mentioned this before, uh, Natalia, she doesn't do a heel turn here,

[01:24:07] but you're not, especially not in the traditional sense, but just an attitudinal change.

[01:24:12] Earlier, she was very suspicious of the sisterhood, especially of the marriage.

[01:24:18] But in this moment, I think she is intensely curious about learning the, the truth about

[01:24:25] Hart.

[01:24:26] And she sees that interrogation by a truth sayer of any allegiance, uh, is going to help her

[01:24:35] understand who Desmond Hart is a little bit.

[01:24:38] But so she is, as much as she's suspicious of the sisterhood, she is not afraid of using

[01:24:44] them when she sees an, uh, an advantage to it.

[01:24:47] Yeah.

[01:24:48] I mean, I do not trust her at all, but I do generally, uh, do not trust really zealous characters.

[01:24:56] Mm-hmm.

[01:24:57] Yeah.

[01:24:57] And I think underlying, I think they're giving us hints that underlying, she is a zealous person.

[01:25:02] Uh, especially with that line she says to Richese, like if, if, if it weren't for our,

[01:25:08] you know, the Butler family, uh.

[01:25:10] Right.

[01:25:11] Which you married into, by the way, Natalia.

[01:25:15] She must've been, her family must've been a key allies.

[01:25:17] I would guess maybe.

[01:25:18] Well, she said, I mean, if it's anything like the story that precedes it and based on what

[01:25:23] we've heard, I think that she brought a group of planets into the Carino empire, but with

[01:25:32] the marriage.

[01:25:33] And so she brokered the marriage herself, she said.

[01:25:37] When Princess Ynez learns of Kasha's death, she starts to hyperventilate, but Valya talks

[01:25:41] her through regaining control mentally and physical, physically.

[01:25:44] Ynez says that she wants to still study to become a sister and Valya and the sisterhood

[01:25:49] want that too.

[01:25:50] She's introduced to Theodosa and once they're alone, she insists that she be told exactly

[01:25:56] how Kasha died.

[01:25:59] Any thoughts about the, this particular scene?

[01:26:02] Um, no, I mean, I think, um, everybody should take, um, Valya's advice here about how to calm

[01:26:11] yourself when you're hyperventilating like that.

[01:26:13] Again, it comes all back to breath and she uses a hand to just kind of, cause she's like,

[01:26:17] step outside yourself.

[01:26:18] So she visualizes it by using her hands.

[01:26:20] So it's just a gesture to get her in the right mindset, but it works well in real life too.

[01:26:25] Right.

[01:26:26] I love the sound effects here too, where we, we hear Ynez's heartbeat and we hear it slowing

[01:26:31] down.

[01:26:32] And then as it slows down and sort of returns to baseline, there is the sound effects of the

[01:26:38] ocean and waves behind.

[01:26:40] And so it was sort of a nice, I felt very meditative myself watching this scene.

[01:26:45] Uh, but I think it really, uh, is a good scene to demonstrate what the sisterhood is teaching,

[01:26:52] at least with this Prana Bindu and Prana Nervature, uh, teachings at, and learning to control your

[01:26:59] physiology.

[01:27:00] And we get that line in episode one, where it's like to know the truth, you have to first

[01:27:04] know yourself.

[01:27:05] You have to be in command of yourself to be able to do that.

[01:27:09] And so that really goes into their, um, not only their ability, uh, their, their sort of

[01:27:14] fighting prowess, just, but their ability to do all of these things that make them seem

[01:27:21] to be, uh, in the, among wider pop, among, among the wider populace that they are supernatural

[01:27:29] in some way, when in fact, they're not supernatural.

[01:27:31] They've just trained and focused.

[01:27:33] They've learned their lessons and they use all the tools and tricks that humanity is, has,

[01:27:38] uh, has discovered over the years and then really concentrated them into a precise teaching,

[01:27:44] uh, uh, curriculum.

[01:27:47] Uh, I love this, um, some books date back even to the age of wood pulp.

[01:27:53] I thought that was a fun little.

[01:27:54] Well, Hey, I got excited about seeing them reading books on paper in that.

[01:27:58] Yes.

[01:27:59] Years ago.

[01:27:59] Flashbacks.

[01:28:00] Exactly.

[01:28:02] All right.

[01:28:02] With the emperor and the empress watching, Vali interrogates Hart.

[01:28:05] He admits to the killing saying he has nothing to hide and adds, you can, uh, can you and

[01:28:10] your sisters say the same?

[01:28:12] Hart tells her he sees the blood trailing your every step.

[01:28:16] Shy Hulud took my eye and granted me with a gift to see what even you cannot.

[01:28:20] Hart attempts to open the emperor's eyes about Kasha.

[01:28:23] I saw your truth sayer for what she was.

[01:28:24] She undermined your instincts and chipped away at your power until you had to grovel before

[01:28:30] lesser men.

[01:28:32] While voices whisper in her head, Valiya tells Haviko that Hart speaks the truth as he believes

[01:28:38] it, but he claimed, but she claims is, uh, is a lie.

[01:28:42] The empress brushes off Valiya's warning and Haviko asks for proof that Hart could have

[01:28:47] attacked Kasha on another planet.

[01:28:49] He won't turn the imperium into a circus of fear and rumor.

[01:28:54] Uh, Travis Fimmel in his crazy eyes.

[01:28:57] He's very good at this, this crazy eye acting style.

[01:29:00] Right.

[01:29:01] Um, yeah.

[01:29:03] So Haviko, as I said earlier, he got over, um, Kasha dying really quickly and he's immediately

[01:29:10] protecting Hart.

[01:29:11] So that just goes to show like, I just think Haviko is a smarmiest character.

[01:29:17] Being well played.

[01:29:18] Yeah.

[01:29:18] But absolutely.

[01:29:19] Yeah.

[01:29:20] Yeah.

[01:29:20] Yeah.

[01:29:21] But also I wanted to point out that they mentioned here that Hart is from a planet called Balut.

[01:29:26] Right.

[01:29:26] And she says harsh word for a child.

[01:29:28] And an interesting thing about Balut is that, uh, it was ravaged by slavers from the planet

[01:29:36] of the Benetli, how do you say?

[01:29:40] Tlilax.

[01:29:41] Yeah.

[01:29:42] Readers of the original later book series know who I'm talking about.

[01:29:45] But, um, this, the fact that he's tied to a planet that was known to be ravaged by this

[01:29:51] group of people ties into a popular theory about him that we'll discuss later.

[01:29:56] Right.

[01:29:56] Exactly.

[01:29:57] Uh, we get the mention of Shai Hulud again.

[01:30:00] So twice they've, they've mentioned that, uh, the name of the worm or there are religious

[01:30:05] name for the worm.

[01:30:07] Uh, and I like this conversation around personal truth versus objective truth.

[01:30:13] Like, is there an objective truth?

[01:30:15] Uh, and you know, what, what Hart believes is true versus what others, you know, may say.

[01:30:21] I think that's a, again, the show is, uh, where some of the dialogue or some of the plot lines,

[01:30:28] you know, people might question a little bit.

[01:30:30] Again, they're, they're, they really are putting their hands around some really great,

[01:30:35] deeper thoughts.

[01:30:35] And I like them playing with this idea of, of the question of what is truth and whose truth

[01:30:41] is, uh, objectively or, you know, uh, true, I guess.

[01:30:46] Is it, is the truth true?

[01:30:49] All right.

[01:30:50] And then of course we get the, uh, set up for the central mystery.

[01:30:55] Like how do we have two deaths occurring at the same time across the universe?

[01:30:59] Mm-hmm.

[01:31:00] And Javiko gives the command like, you know, well, until you give me proof, you know, whatever,

[01:31:08] but oh, by the way, you can't investigate the truth.

[01:31:11] Right.

[01:31:11] You can't, you can't tell anybody about this.

[01:31:14] So good luck trying to, it's sort of a catch 22 situation.

[01:31:17] I, I, yeah, it's, it's, uh, eerily reminiscent of some concurrent things, but that aside.

[01:31:24] In a conversation with the Richese truth share, Valia says they cannot lose the fleet and

[01:31:29] worries Carino is slipping through our grasp and he needs to be reminded of their value.

[01:31:36] Uh, Valia doesn't seem very happy with the other sister.

[01:31:39] I don't think we ever got her name.

[01:31:41] The other truth sayers name.

[01:31:42] The other sister is Vera because it means truth.

[01:31:45] Oh, that's right.

[01:31:46] I remember you saying that, which is a cute little nod.

[01:31:48] And then of course we get, uh, this thing that she, that Valia has to meet another contact

[01:31:53] in Zimia, which is where we get the name of the, the spaceport sort of the main city of the

[01:31:58] capital.

[01:31:58] We have a little bit of lore here as well.

[01:32:01] A cone of silence, the thing that they're standing in.

[01:32:04] We see this in the first Dune movie, the Villeneuve Dune movie.

[01:32:10] And, uh, the idea is, um, and I believe this is from the original six books that, uh, there

[01:32:17] is a, a, uh, vibration pattern that is set up in this conical shape that is, uh, 180 degrees,

[01:32:26] 180 frequencies, uh, opposite to the sounds of voices.

[01:32:30] So it's just sort of a noise canceling thing.

[01:32:32] So I don't know.

[01:32:34] It was interesting that they brought it in, but, uh, I'm not sure how much it added maybe

[01:32:38] just to, to the lore, to the air of secrecy and political intrigue.

[01:32:43] Right.

[01:32:43] All right.

[01:32:44] Next we see Kyrian Atreides mapping the palace and he hides in the wall, the tool he's using

[01:32:50] when he hears voices getting close.

[01:32:52] He then travels to Zimia where he meets with Michaela who is giving Horace a rebel, the

[01:32:58] proceeds from the Arrakis hall.

[01:33:01] In jest, Horace calls out Kyrian for being a direct descendant of a war hero, Vorian Atreides.

[01:33:07] Kyrian shows the virtual map that he's made of the palace, including the throw room.

[01:33:11] In addition to the map not yet completed, the rebels plans include killing the emperor

[01:33:16] to announce their rebellion.

[01:33:18] Kyrian's loyalty is questioned, but he assures them of his loyalties and his, uh, um, uh,

[01:33:25] belief in the rebellion because the great houses are hoarding spice, forcing the people

[01:33:29] to turn to violence to get what they need to survive.

[01:33:33] All right.

[01:33:34] What do you think about Kyrian here?

[01:33:35] He turns out to be.

[01:33:36] Well, I think Kyrian.

[01:33:38] Well, so yeah, we saw him like photographing, basically doing a 3d mapping of the palace.

[01:33:44] Um, and then we see that, so he's, he's like playing all sides at the moment, it seems.

[01:33:51] So he, that's explains why he has entered this household as a sword master.

[01:33:56] Um, but then, you know, so he's with the rebels that seems righteous because he doesn't

[01:34:01] want the great houses to hoard spice because that hurts everybody else.

[01:34:05] Um, so gotta be on his side for that.

[01:34:07] But then of course he's also, um, he is getting closer to the M or to the princess and, uh,

[01:34:16] he doesn't want anything to happen to her.

[01:34:18] So now he's got to be shaken in, uh, where his loyalties lie at the moment.

[01:34:24] Right.

[01:34:25] Right.

[01:34:26] This is, uh, this is kind of where the episode went off the rails a little bit for me.

[01:34:31] There's a, a lot of exposition and a, and a few tropes that I, I didn't particularly care

[01:34:37] for.

[01:34:38] Uh, but that's fine.

[01:34:40] Uh, the, I do have to call out the actor who plays Horace.

[01:34:44] He's the actor.

[01:34:45] If you watch the Noah Hawley, the most recent Noah Hawley Fargo season, this is old munch,

[01:34:51] uh, who's the same actor.

[01:34:53] So, uh, really enjoyed seeing him on screen.

[01:34:57] Vorian Atreides, I think we mentioned him before, but do you want to, um, do a little

[01:35:01] lore brief on that?

[01:35:02] Yeah.

[01:35:03] So Vorian Atreides, he's in a lot of ways that have founder of house Atreides, um, as we

[01:35:08] know, as I don't, I think we're maybe not talking about why, but let's just say he lived for

[01:35:13] a very long time.

[01:35:14] So I mentioned he established families on two different planets.

[01:35:17] One, uh, his first family was on Caledon, which is the water planet where Paul Atreides

[01:35:22] is much later born.

[01:35:23] Um, and then he had a second family after his first family kind of aged out, um, on this

[01:35:30] bucolic hunting planet where he, well, he liked to hunt there, but just like a very chill

[01:35:35] planet called Kepler.

[01:35:36] And I'm wondering which one, uh, this Cure in Atreides is from, I'm guessing based on

[01:35:42] personality and like, just kind of rough around the edgesness, uh, that he's from Kepler.

[01:35:48] But yeah, I would like, but the important thing about Vorian Atreides is he, uh, you

[01:35:53] know, Valia particularly, she hates the Atreides, but she hates Vorian most of all, because that

[01:35:59] is who she blames for her family being exiled.

[01:36:03] Right.

[01:36:04] And we get a little bit of that in the prologue of episode one.

[01:36:09] Right.

[01:36:10] Exactly.

[01:36:10] Yeah.

[01:36:11] I mean, it's more complicated than that, but she blames Vorian Atreides specifically.

[01:36:15] Right.

[01:36:16] Right.

[01:36:16] And then we also get a name drop of the lands rad, which, uh, you said is a Dutch word.

[01:36:21] Yeah.

[01:36:21] It just means basically council of, of countries.

[01:36:25] Land is country.

[01:36:26] Rad is council.

[01:36:28] Right.

[01:36:29] Yeah.

[01:36:29] And Frank was, um, very, really enjoyed finding real world, real words out in our primary

[01:36:37] world and then incorporating those and folding those into his lore and world building.

[01:36:41] Oh yeah.

[01:36:41] He has a few like Dutch names in there.

[01:36:43] It seems like he has pet cultures he pulls from, like obviously Finnish, uh, Greek, you

[01:36:47] know?

[01:36:48] Right.

[01:36:49] All right.

[01:36:50] Valia travels to Zimia to meet with the Fremen bartender, Michaela, who is, we learn is a

[01:36:57] undercover sister with, uh, with the rebellion, with the goal of keeping the Imperium power

[01:37:02] in check.

[01:37:03] Valia wants the names of the rebels involved in the Arrakis raids, uh, to assuage the emperor's

[01:37:09] fear and allow the princess to leave for training with the sisterhood.

[01:37:12] Michaela provides Valia with Kirin's name.

[01:37:16] This is also where, uh, the episode got a little muddled for me.

[01:37:22] This thing, uh, we empower the great houses to maintain order and allow rebellion to keep

[01:37:27] that power in check.

[01:37:29] That's exposition for us.

[01:37:30] They're like just point blank telling us the thing.

[01:37:33] It's not something that I would expect Michaela to say to Valia.

[01:37:36] They, they, uh, they understand this.

[01:37:37] They know this.

[01:37:38] And so they really kind of rubbed me the wrong way, uh, in this side.

[01:37:42] But anyway, um, what did you think of this scene?

[01:37:46] Um, I'm, I see what you're saying there.

[01:37:48] I did like the, I mean, the rebel attack and the harvester was a beautiful manipulation

[01:37:51] because that was a moment where I'm like, oh really?

[01:37:53] Oh yeah, of course.

[01:37:55] Oh, you know, that's more like the, okay.

[01:37:58] So you're telling us that you were involved in it and that tells us so much about the

[01:38:03] sisterhood and how they operate and the whole situation with, uh, that the emperor wants

[01:38:09] information about.

[01:38:10] Um, yeah.

[01:38:12] So now it also tells us a lot about Valia that she's like, well, now I want all the

[01:38:19] names and Michaela's like, oh, you want to burn the whole thing?

[01:38:22] And she gives Michaela gives Kieran's name first, which I was surprised because I thought

[01:38:27] in the first episode, maybe she had a crush on Kieran.

[01:38:29] Cause she was kind of like watching him with Inez and stuff.

[01:38:32] We all have a crush on him, but yeah, sure.

[01:38:34] I mean that aside, um, but yeah, it's,

[01:38:40] it's interesting that, um, that's the name she gave up first.

[01:38:43] And then I also understand now she was watching him for Valia kind of, you know, she was watching

[01:38:49] him not necessarily out of romantic interest, but just out of like political interest.

[01:38:53] Um, and I loved when Valia, she asks, uh, Valia is like, oh, in Atreides.

[01:39:00] And she's like, does that pose an issue?

[01:39:02] I'm like, no, I think inside she, she's like, oh no, it's fine.

[01:39:07] But inside she's like, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta.

[01:39:11] Exactly.

[01:39:11] But I don't think.

[01:39:12] Another chance to burn the Atreides a little bit.

[01:39:15] But I mean, I'd obviously, I think he's probably going to stick around.

[01:39:19] And what I think is, first of all, since Michaela's been watching Kieran, she'll tell Valia he's

[01:39:24] close to the princess and maybe Theodosia isn't able to get as close as they would like.

[01:39:29] So he's the card they might have to play.

[01:39:32] Okay.

[01:39:32] But also by the end of the episode, given, you know, what, um, what Desmond says about,

[01:39:40] you know, you've lost your privileges at the palace.

[01:39:42] She's probably back on wanting to weaken the emperor again.

[01:39:45] Mm-hmm.

[01:39:46] Right.

[01:39:46] So she doesn't want to take out, even though he's an Atreides, he might be a useful tool

[01:39:50] to her.

[01:39:51] Yeah.

[01:39:51] Right.

[01:39:51] And I think that's an interesting point of dramatic tension is, can Valia resist her own

[01:39:56] urges to restore her family's good name, quote unquote, and, you know, do some damage to the

[01:40:03] Atreides versus their bigger mission.

[01:40:05] Yeah.

[01:40:06] Agreed.

[01:40:07] All right.

[01:40:07] Princess Ynez is working out her frustrations with, uh, some training.

[01:40:11] Kieran joins her.

[01:40:14] She confides in him a story about when she was young and how she was a pawn and a political

[01:40:18] coverup.

[01:40:19] We're all just pieces on the board to be placed by, uh, in the pursuit of power and spice.

[01:40:25] He makes a move to kiss her, but she says it won't work as she's no longer, um, well,

[01:40:31] it, I'm confused about this, but, um, Nancy has a notes here that she's no longer going

[01:40:35] to Wallach 9.

[01:40:37] Kieran agrees that it would be bad for both of us.

[01:40:40] What did you think of this scene?

[01:40:42] This was a little, this is also again, where it got a little cringy for me, but.

[01:40:47] Well, I have to say none of the chemistry between the alleged like sexy time peoples is really

[01:40:53] hidden for me.

[01:40:54] Sexy time peoples.

[01:40:55] I like that.

[01:40:56] I'm not, yeah, I'm just not feeling the chemistry.

[01:40:58] So I think it could have been like, I mean, they're both attractive people.

[01:41:02] I don't know why it's not, I'm not feeling it.

[01:41:04] Um, and I think I would have been way more into the kiss if I were feeling that.

[01:41:10] Right.

[01:41:10] Right.

[01:41:11] So I'm more interested in their relationship from a political perspective, to be honest.

[01:41:15] I felt the line here too.

[01:41:17] We're all just pieces on the board to be placed in the pursuit of power and spice.

[01:41:20] It was just a little clunky again for me.

[01:41:22] It was just a little too expository and plain.

[01:41:25] So, but I did find it interesting that Ynez was, um, you know, taken hostage in a, in a power

[01:41:31] play and, and because that goes back to something that Kasha said to her when our, when mine,

[01:41:35] uh, when, when me and my sisters found you.

[01:41:39] Right.

[01:41:40] So maybe the sisterhood was involved in, uh, rescuing her or brokering the, uh, the, uh,

[01:41:47] uh, return of the daughter to, you know, of, of Ynez to her, her family.

[01:41:52] Yeah.

[01:41:53] Yeah.

[01:41:54] Um, I found the, yeah, the whole broken chain thing, a very interesting tease.

[01:42:00] I was thinking, so if she was the age of the nine year old boy, when it happened, then this

[01:42:06] all happened after that Imperial court story, which is the last written thing.

[01:42:10] So it's all new, um, this broken chain, but I'm wondering if this broken chain rebellion

[01:42:16] will in any way play into why Kieran is with the rebels.

[01:42:21] Okay.

[01:42:21] Cause maybe he just learned something.

[01:42:23] Cause he specifically uses that.

[01:42:24] What's that?

[01:42:24] Say that again?

[01:42:25] Cause he just learned something about, you know, that she was involved cause he was really

[01:42:30] surprised to find out that she was kidnapped because her family kept it hidden cause they

[01:42:33] didn't want to look weak.

[01:42:34] Um, and I wonder if that's shaking some firmly held belief he has about the Kieranos being

[01:42:42] bad and, and this all being a good thing and you know, who's the good guys.

[01:42:45] Yeah.

[01:42:46] I like that angular thinking there.

[01:42:47] That's, that's good.

[01:42:48] Yeah.

[01:42:49] I looked at, he specifically says broken chain and I tried to look up reference for it,

[01:42:52] but I didn't really find much.

[01:42:54] No, it's a new invention because it's, it's only like, you know, less than like 15 years

[01:42:59] ago, I guess.

[01:43:00] I don't know how old she's supposed to be.

[01:43:01] Yeah.

[01:43:01] Given her age, relative age and stuff.

[01:43:03] Yeah.

[01:43:03] So, which I think you, you know, you pointed out earlier, which you were spot on on.

[01:43:08] It's nice for them to get away from the established lore and then they can just play.

[01:43:12] They can invent and not feel like they've got to bend themselves too much.

[01:43:16] All right.

[01:43:17] The Empress goes to see Desmond Hart in the suspensor cell asking if he's a prophet.

[01:43:21] He says he can do beautiful, terrible things.

[01:43:24] She tells Hart that Duke Richese is reclaiming his fleet and threatening to seize Arrakis.

[01:43:29] Hart offers to take care of Richese because I am still a soldier at your mercy and your

[01:43:34] command.

[01:43:36] Any thoughts here?

[01:43:38] This seemed pretty straightforward.

[01:43:40] Yeah.

[01:43:40] Yeah.

[01:43:41] Just, I agree with you.

[01:43:43] Let's, let's dress Hart in something else.

[01:43:46] Hopefully we're going to see him in a new uniform in the next episode.

[01:43:49] So he's like, he's like Matt from the wheel of time season one and two.

[01:43:53] He has to wear the same stupid bathrobe.

[01:43:58] Havico confronts Ferdinand who says he'll tear Carino from the throne.

[01:44:02] Desmond Hart enters and begins to burn Richese who cries for mercy.

[01:44:06] Hart is made to stop and Havico tells Ferdinand to return home and bury his son and to say nothing

[01:44:11] of what has occurred.

[01:44:12] Let these tragic circumstances fade from history.

[01:44:16] Havico's go-to play is, all right, keep this secret.

[01:44:19] Shut up about it.

[01:44:20] Don't say anything and we'll just all move on.

[01:44:21] Like he uses that multiple times as a, as a maneuver to deal with things, which I think

[01:44:26] is ultimately weak and ultimately going to be part of his individual downfall because

[01:44:30] we know that Carinos persist, but.

[01:44:33] Mm-hmm.

[01:44:34] Completely agree.

[01:44:35] Did you notice that when Hart stops burning him, quote unquote, you know, and sort of,

[01:44:42] there was like a little sound effect.

[01:44:44] It sounded like a little machine coming to a stop.

[01:44:46] And I didn't know if that was just background music, you know, ambient tonal music, or if

[01:44:51] that was supposed to be sort of quasi diegetic saying like, and giving us a little clue that

[01:44:57] he's something, he's got something going on that is a, has its own on off switch.

[01:45:03] I think that that's a good thing to take note of because I'm still very skeptical about

[01:45:09] them suddenly inventing magical powers in Dune.

[01:45:11] Yeah.

[01:45:12] I, even though Jean, who's one of our co-hosts on some, on, on comics versus, and some of

[01:45:16] other shows, he's all like, yeah, go magic.

[01:45:18] And we're all like, no, boo, don't.

[01:45:20] We're not in Dune.

[01:45:21] It's not what Dune is.

[01:45:22] Exactly.

[01:45:23] It needs to be a little bit world breaking.

[01:45:24] So this is one, my one beef with this storyline a little bit.

[01:45:28] But Hart has this incredible quote unquote magical power to burn people at will.

[01:45:35] What's stopping him from mounting a coup and, and taking over, you know, doing stuff,

[01:45:41] you know, with the emperor and the empress and, and they, they have his loyalty and his

[01:45:47] promise that he's going to be a good boy and that he's a good soldier.

[01:45:50] But what controls do you have over him?

[01:45:54] None.

[01:45:55] He can at any moment turn and bite your hand.

[01:45:58] They're blinded by their own arrogance for sure.

[01:46:01] Yeah.

[01:46:02] Yeah.

[01:46:02] Cause they're like, Oh, of course, of course he loves us.

[01:46:04] Look at us.

[01:46:05] We're the emperors.

[01:46:07] That's right.

[01:46:09] All right.

[01:46:09] Well, let's bring this, uh, to the scene by scene to a, uh, a wrap up the last couple

[01:46:14] of scenes.

[01:46:15] Tula begins the agony procedure on Lila.

[01:46:17] She warns Lila that the sisters will awaken wild and hungry and not to be swayed by them.

[01:46:22] When you're find yourself in the darkness, seek the light, Carolyn, go to the light.

[01:46:27] It will lead you back to the light to us.

[01:46:29] You will emerge at Reverend mother, a drop of the poison that has no antidote is placed

[01:46:34] in Lila's eye.

[01:46:35] Lila awakens amongst her foremothers who surround and grab at her.

[01:46:39] The foremother speaks through her.

[01:46:41] The key to the reckoning is the one who's born twice, once in blood and once in spice.

[01:46:47] Tula tries, very witchy.

[01:46:49] Um, Tula tries to get more information.

[01:46:51] Lila believes the woman speaking through her is Raquel, but then learns that is Dorothea,

[01:46:56] who is seeking revenge for her death at the hands of Valya.

[01:46:59] Lila's last words before dying?

[01:47:02] Question mark?

[01:47:03] Are, Harkonnen, you stole my future.

[01:47:05] Now I'm taking your hope.

[01:47:08] So.

[01:47:09] I don't think she's dead.

[01:47:10] Yeah.

[01:47:10] I don't think she's dead either.

[01:47:11] They, they don't tell us that, but, uh, I think she's gone into some sort of coma.

[01:47:16] Yeah.

[01:47:17] Yeah.

[01:47:17] And they show all the other memories sort of burying her and sort of holding her down and

[01:47:22] including her personality.

[01:47:25] So I can't, I'm sorry, I can't help but think of poltergeist with all of this because we

[01:47:29] just covered that for spooktober.

[01:47:30] We, we watched all the poltergeist movies.

[01:47:32] And so the whole thing of going to the light and all of these, you know, in the other place

[01:47:37] and these spectral images, it was very much like the, uh, what was it?

[01:47:40] The 2015 poltergeist movie that it gave me a lot of visual vibes.

[01:47:45] Right.

[01:47:45] Of the same.

[01:47:46] With the people on the other side.

[01:47:47] Yeah.

[01:47:48] Yeah, exactly.

[01:47:49] What did you make of all of this stuff?

[01:47:50] Uh, lore and, uh, story wise.

[01:47:53] Yeah.

[01:47:53] I mean, I thought that it was, uh, it was, uh, the horror movie effect, you know, it was

[01:47:59] a mixed bag for me.

[01:48:00] Sometimes I thought it was really cool with like that kind of decrepit neck netting over

[01:48:05] their faces, but then others were just like overdone with like the swarming and stuff.

[01:48:10] I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:48:11] We get it.

[01:48:11] We see what you're doing there.

[01:48:13] I wondered about this, this whole, you know, spice twice, born twice, one in blood, one in

[01:48:19] spice.

[01:48:20] Could it be a referring to Desmond?

[01:48:23] It kind of seems to point to that way because he's allegedly swallowed by sandworm or could

[01:48:28] it also be pointing to this water of life future where they figure out where the spice

[01:48:35] is, what they actually need to do for the agony.

[01:48:38] They need to be the spice agony.

[01:48:40] But then also this path to short part, I was like, well, does that mean it's not the golden

[01:48:46] path?

[01:48:47] So it's like a false quiz.

[01:48:48] That's hot rock.

[01:48:49] And then that would seem to be pointing at Desmond again.

[01:48:53] Do you have thoughts on that?

[01:48:54] Yeah.

[01:48:55] It's interesting because Revenant full of scars, a weapon born of war on a path too short.

[01:49:00] And I can't, notwithstanding all of the other theories, I can't help but think that there's

[01:49:08] something that they're pointing to here about that as a, a, um, an early version of a quiz

[01:49:16] that's hot rack who has, who has, you know, some of these powers that the sisters are ultimate,

[01:49:22] you know, will ultimately seek.

[01:49:24] I just can't help but, but think about that.

[01:49:27] Then in that on a path too short line really triggers me, uh, to thinking like, oh, okay,

[01:49:33] what is this?

[01:49:34] Because a Revenant full of scars.

[01:49:36] So Revenant, which is a great 2015 film, by the way, by, uh, Inyaro, uh,

[01:49:42] Inyaratu.

[01:49:43] Inyaratu, yeah.

[01:49:44] But it's a, that's a, a spirit or animated, uh, corpse that is believed to have been revived

[01:49:50] from death to haunt the living, right?

[01:49:52] So it's sort of a, uh, it's not a zombie.

[01:49:54] It's, it's something else.

[01:49:55] It's a person brought back from the dead.

[01:49:58] So a Revenant full of scars.

[01:49:59] So we see, we clearly see Hart with scars on his face, a weapon born of war.

[01:50:05] So we know Hart as a soldier, 12 tours, you know, he's a dangerous guy, but then that also

[01:50:10] starts to indicate to me that he is other than human being, I shall say.

[01:50:17] So yeah, I'm really, they're, they, they're doing a good job of muddying the waters for

[01:50:21] me.

[01:50:21] So I don't know what to think.

[01:50:22] Yep.

[01:50:22] But I agree with your note here that, uh, they shouldn't let the other acolytes watch

[01:50:26] because it's bad publicity, but I guess in the name of transparency, yeah, they should.

[01:50:32] I guess that's probably one of the more moral things that they do.

[01:50:35] Right.

[01:50:35] Right.

[01:50:36] Yeah.

[01:50:36] Hey, this is what you're in for.

[01:50:37] You might as well watch it now.

[01:50:39] And of course they code the poison blue, which, you know, gives us, you know, linkages to

[01:50:43] the spice, the melange, uh, water of life.

[01:50:48] And, uh, I, I also agree about the, the horror aspect of it is a little B grade, especially

[01:50:52] with the snorri cam.

[01:50:54] That's the, a camera that's mounted on your body pointing at your face.

[01:50:59] So no matter where you turn, it's always looking at you is invented by a couple of Icelandic

[01:51:03] guys, I guess.

[01:51:05] And that technique has been around for quite a long time, but it wasn't until digital cameras

[01:51:09] where we really were able to, um, go further with it.

[01:51:12] Cause otherwise trying to mount a film camera on a, on your body from your waist is really

[01:51:17] hard.

[01:51:18] Not, not practical at all.

[01:51:21] A sister's true fear.

[01:51:22] Valia returns to the castle and is confronted by Desmond Hart in the corridor, in that little

[01:51:27] meeting room.

[01:51:28] She demands to speak with the emperor, but told that her services are no longer needed.

[01:51:33] Hart admits that he wants to wipe out the sisterhood.

[01:51:36] Valia uses the voice to compel him to commit suicide.

[01:51:39] However, her power doesn't work on him, leaving her shocked.

[01:51:43] I always wondered what your greatest fear would be.

[01:51:46] Now I've seen it.

[01:51:47] It's not that no one will hear you.

[01:51:49] It's that they will hear you, but just not care.

[01:51:51] Says Hart.

[01:51:53] Valia leaves the corridor and the episode ends.

[01:51:58] Thoughts on this, uh, big dramatic scene here at the end.

[01:52:01] Yeah.

[01:52:02] I mean, I think that this is going to very much change Valia's plan.

[01:52:06] And I think, uh, that this is why, uh, Kieran Atreides will live to swoon over the princess

[01:52:13] again.

[01:52:15] Fair enough.

[01:52:17] Reluctantly, she's going to need him.

[01:52:17] There were some whispering voices, uh, a couple of times.

[01:52:21] Tula has some whispering voices.

[01:52:22] Valia has some whispering voices.

[01:52:24] And I'm just wondering if they're doing that sound effect as a way to remind us that Reverend

[01:52:28] mothers have access to their other voices and might be just walking around talking to them

[01:52:32] and stuff.

[01:52:33] That's what I take it to mean.

[01:52:35] Yeah.

[01:52:35] And something we didn't talk about with the other voices too, with Lila in the spite or

[01:52:39] in the agony is that one of the things that happens when you start to get in touch with

[01:52:46] your genetic ancestors is they all want the spotlight.

[01:52:50] Like a lot of them want the spotlight.

[01:52:52] They want the spotlight of consciousness again.

[01:52:54] So they crowd and sort of assault the person.

[01:52:58] And so you have to be strong to sort of sort that and manage that.

[01:53:02] It takes a lot of internal willpower.

[01:53:04] And I can't remember, is it Children of Dune where Paul's sister, where we get a lot of

[01:53:10] insights into that?

[01:53:11] I think it's Children of Dune.

[01:53:13] Even in the original Dune.

[01:53:16] Yeah.

[01:53:16] But there's a, the, the stuff with, with Paul's sister, they go really deep into it.

[01:53:21] But she's born in the original Dune, even though she wasn't in the movies, but they do show

[01:53:26] like while Jessica's pregnant with her because yeah, he shouldn't get pregnant when you go

[01:53:31] through.

[01:53:31] But while Jessica's pregnant with her, she's already talking to her and.

[01:53:34] To, uh, I haven't read Messiah in quite a while or Children.

[01:53:38] So I'm, I'm, and I'm still in the first part of the, of my reread of the first books.

[01:53:42] I don't remember where specific things are.

[01:53:45] So I think that's it for the episode.

[01:53:49] All right.

[01:53:50] So we've, uh, running a bit long as we are want to do here on the lorehound.

[01:53:54] So we're going to break the feedback off into a separate episode.

[01:53:59] So you will be able to enjoy that as a standalone.

[01:54:03] So really quick.

[01:54:04] And then we'll also do the book spoiler stuff all in that podcast as well.

[01:54:08] Really quick.

[01:54:09] Uh, you have a silo in full production and I think you've got a wicked one shot in the

[01:54:15] offing as well.

[01:54:16] Right.

[01:54:17] Right.

[01:54:18] So we're working on, uh, the scheduling for wicked because it doesn't open in my country

[01:54:22] until December 4th.

[01:54:23] So we're going to be shortly after that.

[01:54:26] Yeah.

[01:54:26] But also Marilyn was like, oh great, because I need some time to be able to see it.

[01:54:30] And maybe we, we had a couple other, maybe interested parties and joining it.

[01:54:35] So if anyone has seen it and has thoughts, uh, please send it to lorehounds at the lorehounds.com

[01:54:41] and we'll include that in the episode.

[01:54:43] Perfect.

[01:54:44] And then you've got silo coverage coming up.

[01:54:46] We have, uh, what else?

[01:54:48] In the thick of it.

[01:54:49] Book stuff for you.

[01:54:50] Are you done with the book stuff or are you just doing the spoiler?

[01:54:52] With, uh, so in the silo feed, it's a spoiler cast.

[01:54:56] And then also, also, also in December on the wool shift dust public and, um, book club feeds,

[01:55:02] there is a Christmas specials.

[01:55:05] There's a fun, we're doing a Christmas carol.

[01:55:07] So there's going to be for subscribers.

[01:55:09] Um, we're going to get, get into the book and there's going to be an audio drama version

[01:55:13] of a story that predates the book.

[01:55:16] That's very similar about some goblins that kidnap a sexton and make him see the error of

[01:55:21] his ways.

[01:55:22] Um, and then in the public feed, we are covering a bunch of a Christmas carol, um, uh, adaptations

[01:55:30] into episodes.

[01:55:31] Very fun.

[01:55:32] Sounds great.

[01:55:33] I love your audio drama work.

[01:55:35] Looking forward to it.

[01:55:37] It'll be nice.

[01:55:38] We also have, uh, uh, yeah, we've got the Christmas rom-com stuff.

[01:55:42] Uh, I think hot frosty is getting some talked about our little secret and the lore hounds

[01:55:47] feed.

[01:55:47] Yeah.

[01:55:48] Yeah.

[01:55:48] Um, so that'll be fun.

[01:55:49] I'm bracing myself to watch those.

[01:55:51] Those are not typically what I like, but John is pretty excited.

[01:55:55] And we're going to have our special guest.

[01:55:56] Turn your brain off.

[01:55:56] Yeah.

[01:55:57] Yeah, exactly.

[01:55:58] We have Anna Claus who, uh, joined us last year to talk about some rom-com stuff is coming

[01:56:03] back this year.

[01:56:03] So that'll be fun.

[01:56:05] Um, we're going to definitely do some coverage of, uh, star Wars skeleton crew.

[01:56:11] Uh, we'll probably do like a, uh, episode right after the initial drop and maybe a mid

[01:56:16] and post season, uh, check in, but that seems pretty excited.

[01:56:19] I know you're excited for that.

[01:56:21] Yeah.

[01:56:22] Well, yeah, I think it's going to be led.

[01:56:24] It sounds like by, uh, John and Maryland.

[01:56:27] Yeah.

[01:56:27] And Maryland.

[01:56:28] So, uh, look forward to that.

[01:56:30] Otherwise, uh, I think we will get out of here.

[01:56:33] I have some, uh, eighties synth pop music ready to go.

[01:56:37] If you want to read our thank yous to our discord, um, and our lore master subscribers.

[01:56:43] Here we go.

[01:56:44] Okay.

[01:56:45] Ooh, here we go.

[01:56:46] I was feeling very inspired by the 84 movie.

[01:56:49] So I had to get some eighties synth pop.

[01:56:51] All right.

[01:56:52] Thank you to our discord server boosters, Aaron K.

[01:56:55] Tiller, the thriller, dork of the ninjas, doob71, Dina Agilea, Tina Q, Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost

[01:57:01] Partition, and Richard W.

[01:57:03] And thank you most especially to our lore masters who make this possible.

[01:57:12] Thank you.

[01:57:38] And, and always last, Adrienne.

[01:57:42] Very nice.

[01:57:43] All right.

[01:57:44] So look for the feedback episode in your, uh, podcast feeds, uh, in a couple of days.

[01:57:49] And until then, we'll talk to you later.

[01:57:51] Bye.

[01:57:52] Happy Thanksgiving.

[01:57:54] The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[01:57:58] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact.

[01:58:04] Get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds.

[01:58:09] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any

[01:58:13] employers or other entities.

[01:58:15] Thanks for listening.