Oneshot – Interview with the Vampire S1&2

[00:00:01] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod. But we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore! It was made for the Lorehounds.

[00:00:35] And since we just finished recapping Season 1, we couldn't be more ready to defend our Black Queen in the Dance of the Dragons.

[00:00:42] And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene-by-scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our Dragonfire Hot, but probably positive, takes.

[00:00:59] The Lorehounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a heartened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.

[00:01:12] Welcome to the Lorehounds. I'm your host, Alicia, here today with a special guest to discuss everything interview with a vampire. Hi, Christina. Hello! Now this is, I think you might agree with me, the best TV show that too many people aren't watching?

[00:02:04] 100%. It is so good and the fact that not everyone is hopping up and down about how great this show is, is amazing to me.

[00:02:13] Yeah. So we're going to start out by telling the people who aren't yet watching yet why they might want to be. We'll keep that part of the opening conversation spoiler free.

[00:02:23] And then we'll warn you before we open up show spoilers. We're going to first look back on season one, especially through the lens of new information we got in season two.

[00:02:31] And then we're going to chat a little bit about the wider Immortal Universe AMC is building. And then in the back half, we'll dive into the major plot points and character arcs of season two.

[00:02:41] And we'll save all of our book spoilers for a special section at the end where we'll get into a little speculation about the seasons to come, starting with the officially greenlit season three coming in. I don't know. What do you think? Like early 2026?

[00:02:56] Ooh, I actually am hoping for autumn of 2025. But yeah, I probably. I'm hoping. Yeah.

[00:03:03] Depending on we are hearing that they might be starting to film this this autumn. So it could be you know, it could be autumn of 2025 if that if the reports are true that they're filming this fall.

[00:03:15] Yeah, I mean, this is not a special effects intense show, really, you know. Mm hmm. They do a lot of it's done practically. So yeah, fingers crossed, fingers crossed. We'll see. Absolutely.

[00:03:28] And then yeah, listeners stick around at the end for a look at what's going on in the Lorehounds Network this week. And yeah, Christina, welcome. Thank you for joining.

[00:03:37] You are one of the hosts of Vampire Insider, which does weekly breakdowns of this show and everything in the Immortal Universe and a bunch of other vampire content. I should let you summarize for yourself. How would you describe your podcast to people who don't know it yet?

[00:03:53] It is an unofficial after show podcast for all things Immortal Universe. So we look at Interview with a Vampire. We look at the Mayfair Witches. We've got an upcoming show from AMC, the Talamaska that is also related to Anne Rice's work. And so we do all of that.

[00:04:13] And then in between all of that, if we're not doing deep dives into themes on Immortal Universe shows, then we are looking at other kinds of vampire media.

[00:04:24] We're going to be doing coming up this year sort of a deep dive into the Vampire Diaries because my co-host, Joanne Palumbo, loves the Vampire Diaries.

[00:04:38] So we're going to do that. But yeah, so it's just a really, it's kind of a fun, we're not super serious. We crack a lot of jokes, but we do get into the weeds on some of the more heady themes that happen in Anne Rice's work.

[00:04:54] Mm hmm. Yeah. And so, okay, so this is the show was created by Roland James for AMC based on the Vampire Chronicles book series by Anne Rice.

[00:05:03] A lot of people are, of course, familiar with the movies from the 90s, the one with Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise and Kirsten Dunst, and then the Queen of the Damned with Aliyah.

[00:05:15] And now, of course, we have these TV shows. So what is your background with all this? How did you come into this IP and what's been your experience going into the shows?

[00:05:26] Well, I'm an Anne Rice fan. So that goes way back to the 80s when I was an angsty, gothic teen in sort of 84. I was given by a friend interview with a vampire and she said, you've got to read this. So great. And I read it and I fell in love with the characters.

[00:05:47] I fell in love, honestly, with Louis. And then that was it. That was all that there was at that point. In 85 is when she released the Vampire Lestat. And then, of course, that opens up the entire universe and she has 13 books or I can't even.

[00:06:03] There are 13 books, but then there are other books that are kind of offshoots and stuff. But yeah, devoured it all because it was really just my wheelhouse for such a long time. And it was one of those foundational books that you read as a teen and then you just keep coming back to the author again and again and again.

[00:06:23] And so that's my background with it. Now, I am not a huge fan of the film. I, of course, saw the film and I was originally Anne was really kind of against the casting of Tom Cruise as Lestat. And I she changed her mind eventually and said, you know, he did a good job. I really for the longest time have just thought, oh, God, Tom Cruise was just not Lestat.

[00:06:50] And then for the podcast, I rewatched the film and I thought, you know, I can see that he did try. He really did give it the college try. Bless his heart. It's very true. And so it's improving on me, but it's nothing like the show. And Lestat, Tom Cruise as Lestat is nothing like Sam Reed as Lestat.

[00:07:18] Well, that is the one thing when people bring up the movie, they're like, but Tom Cruise as Lestat. Well, first of all, I have to be honest upfront that I'm just like not a Tom Cruise fan. And a lot of that does come from behind the scenes stuff. I'm just like, yeah, dead eyes got the ick anyway. But just Sam Reed as Lestat is one of the most revelatory performances I have ever seen in anything in my entire life.

[00:07:43] Absolutely. I was not familiar with his work prior to seeing Interview with the Vampire. I have since gone back. And if you see the breadth of performance that that man can bring to every role that he's in, it's amazing.

[00:08:00] And he, like I said about him after watching the pilot episode, he's the karmic Sav that we've all been looking for. Because I thought that probably more people were like me and didn't care for Tom Cruise. And like you, there's a lot of back, there's a lot of, you know, like the stuff that's behind the scenes about Tom Cruise that I dislike. And I think that informs. But truly, truly, Sam Reed is a revelation in this role.

[00:08:27] Yeah. And I need to watch Newsreader because I keep hearing newsreaders and Australian show. He's Australian. And it also stars Anna Taur of who I also dearly love from Fringe, especially, but also what was it? Mindhunter. She was in as well. But yeah, I need to watch that because I hear it's like he's just as good, but in a completely different type of role.

[00:08:50] It is so good. Totally different type of role, as you said, but just he's I don't even know. He disappears into the role. So you totally believe him in that role. You totally believe him as a vampire. In an interview with a vampire. Lambs of God also is a film that he was in. That's something to check out. He's really good at that as well. And he was in Belle.

[00:09:18] Oh, yeah. That is on my list. Because it's also was it Gugu Mbatha-Raw? Yes. Yes. Yes. Fantastic.

[00:09:28] Yeah. So my background is that I don't actually remember whether I started first with the book or the movie. I was a teenager around the time the movie came out, I think, a younger teenager, perhaps. So I don't remember which way it went. But then I got really into the books. And then I kept up with the books until I was, I don't know, in my mid 20s probably.

[00:09:52] And then, you know, I just I'd read through all the books that were published up to a certain point. And then I just kind of like forgot about the series a little bit. You know what I mean? And then when this TV show came out, that's when I went back and dove back in and was like, OK, now I need to catch up in at least. So I haven't read all of the later books, but I at least know what happens in all the later books.

[00:10:16] Yeah. Well, there was a lot of you know, there was some controversy about Anne for a while because she sort of denounced her. She found her religion again and she denounced the vampires. And then she was then she was writing those those books about Christ. And honestly, there were a couple that were I and I actually read them and I thought these are interesting.

[00:10:38] It's not my thing, but it was interesting. And like I said, I'm a fan of the author. And then, you know, and then there was some kind of there was a split people who had been fans of Anne's when she started doing some of the later books. They have some interesting things that happened in the later books that people kind of went. Some people, some people went, yeah, I've been a fan, but this is this is kind of jumping the shark.

[00:11:05] But not me. I, you know, I just sort of take it for what it is. And it's the characters really that keep me coming back. And, you know, the main one and you really have to say this regardless of how the show has presented this story. Lestat is the guy, right? That's her guy. She used to write letters as if she was Lestat and respond or write Facebook posts as if she's Lestat responding to questions.

[00:11:35] He was he was it. He's the guy. So, right. And he's definitely in the books. He's easily the most interesting character. I want to say he was always my favorite, but I don't know if that is true in my first reading or if that's just me looking back with the lens of someone who knows the full story past the first book, you know?

[00:11:55] Yeah, well, for me, like I said, Louis was my favorite in the first book. Lestat obviously then becomes the focal point. But I have to say that if you gave me my druthers, the most interesting character for me that she wrote was Armand and the vampire Armand. The book is easily my favorite of the Vampire Chronicles.

[00:12:19] I just find that story to be so moving. And I'm a I'm trained as a historian. So and she really kind of delves into some interesting history around Armand. I suppose that's why I like him so much. But I always kind of want to dwell in the past, you know? So Armand just sings to me.

[00:12:39] Well, so I have to say with both Louis and Armand, I don't like Louis. I just kind of found him a little flat in the books. And then Armand, I thought, just thought of him more as like, he's the bad guy with some complications that make him maybe not the worst guy. But I just kind of didn't like Armand, you know, like he's trouble. I just, Claudia is definitely one of my favorite characters in the book. So, you know, obviously, I naturally have to hate Armand a little bit.

[00:13:06] But yeah, so sorry, avoid spoilers. But yeah, in the TV show, there's so much more depth and nuance. And these characters just I feel for them so much more like especially Armand, I was surprised by how much I was defending him throughout the season.

[00:13:27] Yes, I really, this season has been a lot of me saying he's the perfect angel. And he's just suffering from trauma. And I understand everything that he's doing. But yes, yeah. I mean, let's not get too much into the spoilers. Right?

[00:13:44] Yeah, we're delving into spoilers. So let's let's start with our spoiler free. Why? Okay, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend obviously, we both love this. So we're not gonna like, Oh, what do you think of the show? But so the question here is for the people who might be on the fence about whether or not to put the time into watching the show themselves. What why do you think it's worth watching?

[00:14:07] Well, the writing that it's the writing the acting. As you mentioned, they don't it does I'm sure it doesn't have a massive budget, but we're how they've applied the budget, I think has been impact.

[00:14:23] It may get a little expensive. Yeah, very. They have. They've given them budget for an orchestra. So the score is fantastic. Right? Have to shout out Daniel Hart. Daniel Hart, his score is terrific. And I think that it is the attention to detail for me that even if you're not a book reader, if you just coming to this media completely,

[00:14:53] unfamiliar with it. The writers are doing such a great job of adding in historical detail and adding in just beautiful they're all playwrights or many of them are playwrights. So right, often when you're watching these episodes, it's like watching a play unfold. Right? Amazing.

[00:15:13] That was also one of the cool things with season two. They actually put it in a theater setting. So it gets very meta in a way, which is awesome. Absolutely. Yeah, I love how I mean, this is also so this is adapt the first two seasons are adapting the first book in the series, the book that's called interview with the vampire. And there's a few key changes that have been made there. First, first of all, they're remixing the books together, which makes a lot of sense.

[00:15:40] Because first of all, like you don't want to lose the stat from most of the second season. But also they have shifted the time a little bit. So this is what when people are like, Oh, but they are massacring the books. This is what they complain about one of the things. But I think that that specificity of these new like, so the first season is set in the beginning, at least in 1910s, New Orleans in this neighborhood called Storyville. And this is one of those neighborhoods that no longer exists.

[00:16:10] And I would have never known about it. And what a cool, vibrant history it has without this show. Absolutely.

[00:16:18] And then in second season, now that's been bumped to post World War Two Europe, which also it will get into how that affects like specific character developments, but they just really, they didn't just move the time up. They really chose specific moments and went into incredible detail to represent them and add extra flavor to the story through them.

[00:16:42] I agree. I think that the original book would have been difficult to bring to life just word for word and situation for situation. They've essentially they've updated, they've updated the material, they've used the material and they've given it this updated twist that I think makes it more relevant to things that are going on today and questions that we're going to have to answer in the future.

[00:17:12] And I think that's something that we're grappling with today in this time. And I think that it, it brings it closer to us so that we can engage. I definitely feel like the writers want us to engage with this media in a more meaningful way. You don't have to. You can watch it. It's just a good story.

[00:17:32] But I think that in this adaptation, the way that they've chosen to make these changes forces us as audience members to grapple with some of the things that they're grappling with and that we do in our day to day life. So that to me is just a really brilliant way to freshen up this material.

[00:17:54] Right. Yeah. And I love one thing they really do adapt well from the books is the fact that it's, it's the tale. It's the interview is like the key word in the first title, but it also goes throughout. These are all subjective, often contradictory perspectives. Like people who listen to me more often know I love to talk about a Rashomon style story, which Rashomon was a 50s Kurosawa film that has to do with a crime, a sexual assault actually, that's seen from different perspectives.

[00:18:23] And each perspective adds a new layer of understanding. And this is definitely that type of show, which just makes you think about like the human condition and about yeah, our flaws and our memories. You know, the subtitle of this season was Memory is a Monster.

[00:18:39] Memory is the monster. Memory is a monster was last season, first season one. This season it's Memory is the monster. Got it.

[00:19:19] And how do, as you said, how does the same event look from multiple perspectives? And there's a there's a great episode this season where you really see how how perspective plays out.

[00:19:35] And most people who were serious viewers of the show immediately picked up on it. And that's, you know, Armand's episode where they, you know, it's Armand's story with Lestat and everyone was joking. It's like what fan fiction, Armand? What fan fiction?

[00:19:52] You know, because it's a totally different Lestat than Louis has been writing about. Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I love this show. It's I call it like an equal parts entertaining and horrifying lesson in empathy.

[00:20:06] That's actually very accurate. Absolutely. Really, it is because you're there are such morally gray characters. Right. And you have to put you have to put that aside and then kind of say, OK, well, I'm going to engage with that.

[00:20:22] And I think as as viewers, especially now, because we are post sort of that the antihero paradigm shift that happened where, you know, you have the Tony Sopranos and the Walter White's and all of those characters, the succession with anybody who is a succession fan.

[00:20:41] It's just really like, who do you hate the least? Honestly, you know, like, I don't know. But with succession, I there are no characters there that I really kind of well, maybe like Tom's Wombs, Tom Wombs, Gamms, however you say his name.

[00:20:55] I kind of love to hate. But with this show, I do like a mad at them. But I love and feel protective of them all too.

[00:21:01] Well, you do because because you get the traumatic backstories. You understand you understand where they're they're sort of where the why they are the way they are, why they are the way that they are.

[00:21:14] And it does force you to be empathetic. But then it also forces you because they're doing their monsters. Yeah. Literally. They know it too. And they and so and so.

[00:21:26] And you're also grappling with the fact that, OK, well, what does it mean to be a vampire and what does that do to a moral code?

[00:21:35] And it there's just so much that you're as a as a viewer watching this going, oh, OK. You know, like we're fine with that.

[00:21:47] And but because they're monsters, because you go, oh, well, but they're vampires. But then when you look at how they interact, because as much as this is a monster story, a vampire story is also a very human story.

[00:22:01] Anne Rice is the author who I would argue. Makes vampires what we understand vampires to be now in most other vampire media, I would say that we don't have true blood, we don't have certainly we don't have Twilight.

[00:22:19] You don't even have the Vampire Diaries if you don't have Anne Rice who humanizes vampires in the way that she does. And so this is a relationship story. So now you've got monsters in very human looking relationships and they're behaving like monsters in these relationships.

[00:22:38] And that's where the tension comes in as a viewer, because you're sort of like, oh, you know, he was terrible to him. He should not kick him to the curb. But he was terrible to him, too, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:52] And that's why I say that people who are fans of House of the Dragon should really watch this show as well, because it is very much about I mean, it's not as much about like the political level, although there is coven politics and we are going, I think we're veering more into

[00:23:07] there's going to be some bigger vampire politics at play in future seasons, it seems like. But it's more about like these personal relationships, but like in a very dramatic way with beautiful people who look extra eerie because of these contact lenses they wear that make them not blink.

[00:23:24] And yeah, but there's like there's humanity. There's there are these like lovely moments that warm your heart and then right after that rip it out. And if you are a House of the Dragon fan, then you're already used to the gore and sex.

[00:23:41] Yeah. And I mean, coming up potentially like we can't do spoilers, but yes, you are used to the gore and sex. That's for sure. Slightly fewer troubling births, although I guess you could if unless you see unless you say siren siren, someone is a form of giving birth. But, you know, yeah.

[00:24:03] And also the other fun thing about this is just because of that, just the way that the writers have been like we saw things in season two that made us go back and look at season one again and see details they had planted there for us, you know, so the attention to detail just makes it a fantastic show for sleuthing. So it's been really fun to be part of the Twitter community around this show because they're very active, very good at finding things.

[00:24:29] They are. They're Tumblr is, you know, the long form. There are some amazing theories that happen on Tumblr. So many people are just watching the back. You watch the background, the art. There's there's a there's all sorts of stuff happening with the artwork in this. There's so the set dressing becomes incredibly important.

[00:24:53] Yeah, there are. Everyone's always if you're a book reader, you're kind of on the hunt for Easter eggs from the book and you're going, oh, yeah, OK, that's that's exactly from the book. They took each of the titles for every for the episodes were taken verbatim from the book.

[00:25:09] So they really did pay homage and keep you if you're a book reader, they're doing their best to keep you in there and saying, OK, yes, I see that. I see that. But they're making some really like you said before, making some really good changes to write book as well to update it and make it more relevant to for audiences today.

[00:25:32] It seems like one of those shows that people start the first episode and get hooked on it and then go back and read the books afterwards, you know, so it's not like I think people don't feel like they feel left out or something if they haven't read the books, but it just makes them want to read ahead and figure out what's going on. And, yeah.

[00:25:49] It's interesting that you say that because I was just as I opened up the email today to link into the to the podcast with you. We had a message from one of our listeners on Vampire Insider saying, hey, you know, I love the show. I haven't read the books. Do you recommend that I read the books? Will it ruin it for me if I read the books? Because I hear a lot of people and I see a lot of people talking about how whiny Louie is in the books.

[00:26:19] Will that ruin it for me? And I would say the answer to that is actually no, it won't ruin it for you. It'll give you a different perspective. And I think it will give you some some depth of understanding about the motivations for some of these characters, because the writers on this show and the actors on this show have read these books.

[00:26:39] So they understand things about these characters that are not being explicitly stated in the show, but that are clearly informing their performances. And you know that based on their performances, but also they talk about it a lot in interviews.

[00:26:56] Yeah, no, I think that is it. The other thing about it is because they're kind of remixing the books, even if you've read the books, like, you know, you knew what the big climactic event of season two was going to be, but you didn't know how they were going to get there, what they're going to show about it or how things were going to proceed from there. And I think now after this first book is done, that's we're going to go even more like we the book readers don't even know what's coming, basically. So don't worry about that.

[00:27:25] No, if you've read the books, you're not going to they do keep you guessing. Like I said, they put enough there are enough Easter eggs in there that you go, OK, OK, I get it. And maybe this is what's going to happen. And so the Twitter community and and, you know, sort of back to the Twitter and Tumblr and Reddit and the theories, it really does allow for a lot of theorizing.

[00:27:49] And sometimes I think that we as I'm speaking for myself here, I can't speak for everyone. I'm speaking for myself. Sometimes I'll see little clues what I think are clues and I'll go down a path of like this is what I think is going to happen. And then when it doesn't, which is more often the case for me than not, there's a there's a part of me that's like, I'm very disappointed.

[00:28:12] I wanted it to happen that way, but I you know, obviously I laugh at myself and and shake it off. But I do see some people also who kind of hold on to their theories and are maybe a little bit disappointed that the things that they thought would or should happen haven't happened. And I just sort of at that point, my my response is always sort of just trust the process. Let the tale seduce you, which is a line from the let the story seduce you, which is a line from the show.

[00:28:42] Yeah, I have that problem. I'll be honest with House of the Dragon, which is unusual for me because I don't usually like I often have it's more like with with stuff like Wheel of Time or Silo. Like I watched episode one. So I'm like, oh, wait, okay. Differences registering. All right now rewatch and now embracing for what it is.

[00:29:02] House of the Dragons one more where I'm more like dragging my feet like but but I thought they were going to spend more time at Winterfell, you know. And but then with Interview with a Vampire, I actually have quite the opposite surprisingly, like because I can't help but in my head think about like, oh, well, maybe they'll just do it like this. And, you know, and then when it happens differently, I keep saying, oh, wait, no, that was better. That was better than what I thought.

[00:29:29] Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that that's there are a lot of I guess if there if you are a really hardcore book fan and you are really wedded to certain beats that happen in the books, then it could be that you get disappointed. But I don't I think I really I think more people are like you who sort of say, OK, I love it. I'm just going to go with it.

[00:29:55] I may not have loved everything about it, but I love it more than I am disappointed in sort of meeting my expectations.

[00:30:04] Right. Right. And if and if you haven't read the books at all, then I think, yeah, just I would say if you haven't read the books and you're considering it, just watch the show first. Watch the show first. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can read the books.

[00:30:18] I would say definitely do that because I know that there are some people who haven't read the books and they are enjoying this show in a way that really transcends maybe even some of what I'm seeing from people who who are long term, long term fans, book readers and such.

[00:30:37] I have a personal friend who is that way. And actually, my co-host, Joanne, Joanne has not she's read a few of the books, but she hasn't read all of the books. So she's not going in with any kind of preconceived notions or hang ups or whatever.

[00:30:50] She's just able to enjoy it on its face. And I'm a little envious of that.

[00:30:56] Because they change some of the lore, but internally it's very consistent. So it's yeah. Yeah. Well, for anyone who is on the fence about watching it, of course, it's on AMC, but I do have to admit that it is apparently going to be on Netflix in the US later this year. Don't know when. Don't know in what countries.

[00:31:14] I heard spooky season, but I don't know if that's a confirmed time. I heard it was going to be autumn of this year, which if they are starting filming in autumn of this year, maybe that tracks, you know, but.

[00:31:27] Yeah, we're gonna we're very excited for it to be on Netflix because I think that'll obviously broaden the audience. Yeah, definitely look out for it there. But also if you can't wait, like I said, it's on AMC.

[00:31:40] OK, we're going to let's get into we're going to talk first through season one, but we are going to be talking through season one as people who have watched season two.

[00:31:50] So I'm lifting the spoiler embargo right now. So spoilers, spoilers, spoilers for all TV stuff. But we're going to still hold off on the future book spoilers until special section at the end.

[00:32:03] So just before we get into a look at season one, I'm just going to do a quick recap.

[00:32:09] So in the Storyville neighborhood of 1910 New Orleans, a relatively well-to-do Creole man by the name of Louis de Pontelac tries to be a good brother and son while running a brothel and pretending to be straight.

[00:32:21] That is until he meets the enigmatic Lestat de Léoncourt, a dramatic ass bisexual Frenchman with a lust for blood.

[00:32:30] And soon the men are stalking each other through the streets of New Orleans until one night after a tragedy in Louis's family, he finds himself on the altar of a church with his new lover turning him into a vampire.

[00:32:41] Louis loves to be miserable, so he leans into what he doesn't like about being a vampire, namely the killing. Or so he claims for now at least.

[00:32:49] Until one night he has a brilliant idea that will fix all their problems, which of course always works brilliantly in real life. They should have a baby, or at least they should turn this young girl who was orphaned in a fire and on death's door.

[00:33:01] Lestat reluctantly gives in, but non-spoiler alert, this solves nothing. And now they have just another miserable soul in the house, ratcheting up the tension.

[00:33:12] After a fight between Louis and Lestat becomes unforgivably violent and Claudia is thwarted in her attempts to start a life of her own, Claudia convinces Louis to kill Lestat and run off to Europe with her.

[00:33:23] Louis goes along but can't finish the job, leaving Lestat underground scavenging off the mice that crossed his coffin for a few years, all to return in season 2. So did I miss anything important Christina?

[00:33:37] I don't think so. I think you hit all the key points. It's a very concise and good synopsis of season 1.

[00:33:46] Thanks. I didn't mention a few things. There are a couple other vampire characters that show up. There's Antoinette, played by Mora Grace Athari. So she becomes like a little temporary love triangle.

[00:34:02] Yeah, Lestat enjoys a little bit of variety. It is his excuse for that and that causes some tension in the Louis-Lestat relationship.

[00:34:16] Antoinette was a roundly despised character in season 1. I don't know anybody in the fandom that liked Antoinette. She was really kind of a hot topic because there was some concern that she might return in season 2 somehow and that in the end did not happen and I think a lot of people breathed a sigh of relief.

[00:34:38] Yeah, she served her purpose. Later on I was going to talk about our favorite moments and lines but I'll say one now.

[00:34:47] Lestat is like, oh you know I just believe in polygamy and we're such old creatures and stuff. Let's just do our own thing but we're always together. We're our primary people.

[00:34:59] So then at one point Louis goes out and he's like, okay here's an old school friend. Actually this could be a really nice evening for me and he actually has a good time and they have a nice connection.

[00:35:11] And then I still have the exact delivery of this line ringing through my head like two years later or whatever it is. Louis is like, well I thought we could do our own thing. He's like, I heard your heart dancing.

[00:35:25] I heard your heart dancing. That was wild. But he actually does, yes, Lestat became very histrionic in that moment and it's sort of what's good for the goose is not also good for the gander I guess in Lestat's mind.

[00:35:39] Now canonically obviously, and I do a lot of this on the podcast where we sort of say okay well this is what happens in the show but then we do refer back to the source material.

[00:35:51] Canonically the vampires are having relationships with everyone. Lestat falls in love like he changes his suits. He's just finding all sorts of different people that he immediately falls in love with and has these intense connections.

[00:36:06] But yeah, true to what he's saying, you will be my companion for 10,000 days or whatever number he throws out there. And it's true. It is Louis and Lestat and the fans. The ship wars are alive and well in the interview with the vampire fandom.

[00:36:29] One other thing I didn't mention is one of the two tougher subjects of season one is that Claudia, when she goes out on her own at one point she meets another vampire named Bruce who played by Damon Downow who comes up again in season two.

[00:36:46] So it's important to mention him but he basically we learn in season two that he basically sexually assaulted her and locked her underground for a while.

[00:36:55] Under the floorboards. It was one of those, that's one of the decisions that the writers made that I question frankly to have that happen to her. In the books Claudia is a young girl five years old. Yeah, yeah. And is a stand in for

[00:37:13] So that would be way worse even but yeah. Right. So she's a stand in for Anne's daughter, Michelle who she lost to, I think a form of leukemia. Yeah.

[00:37:23] But in the series they've aged Claudia up so that she's 14 when she's turned, she's still a child, but and a teenager and so anybody with teenagers knows how rough that is and now imagine that you've frozen someone in time as a teenager.

[00:37:39] And so Claudia does strike out on her own and does the way that the writers chose to show her it is not safe for little vampire girls out on their own is to have this essay happen and it's a question, it's a decision I've questioned and I continue to question.

[00:37:59] But it did drive the narrative certainly and it also sparked a lot of conversation. But yeah, that is definitely something that happens there and Lestat taunts her about that in the series, in season one. I mean he is a monster, he says it himself. Absolutely.

[00:38:19] Yeah, so Claudia I think the smart decision, I mean obviously I think it was good that they aged her up. They aged her up in the movie but they aged her up here even more.

[00:38:26] And they got also actually actresses in their 20s who have like baby faces, kind of ageless looks to play her and I think that that's, that was a very good idea.

[00:38:36] So in season one we had Bailey Bess playing Claudia and in season two we had Delaney, what was her last name again? Delaney Hills.

[00:38:46] Oh yeah, we had Delaney Hills playing her. So what did you, I mean I was nervous about the recast but then very happy about it. I think you feel the same because I listened to your podcast.

[00:38:57] Yes, I think that the reason for the recast was due to scheduling concerns. Right. Bailey did a great job.

[00:39:11] She did a great job. This is nothing to do with her performance, she did an amazing job but she is also, she plays a character in Avatar and she's going to be needed in Avatar and they said that there were scheduling issues. The James Cameron version.

[00:39:27] Yep, which is good news for viewers of the show in the sense that it signals more shows, right? And more of Claudia. But Delaney stepped in and took a character, you said earlier that you always liked Claudia as a character and I always kind of saw Claudia in the way that Claudia kind of was which was just this pawn between the two of them or a bad fix.

[00:39:56] But that's what I like about her, the tragedy of it.

[00:39:59] Right, well she is an extremely tragic character but I never really felt an attachment to her, I never really understood her character until Delaney stepped in. And when Delaney stepped in in season two it was mind blowing for me because she made her so real and so, there's one of the characters where she becomes so human to me and I became so attached to her as a character.

[00:40:26] Yeah.

[00:40:27] And then you see some of the stuff and you go, she's a monster because she keeps a book of the people that she kills, she writes down their last words. And often you can, you know, as a wildly inappropriately attached viewer, I freeze the screen and I read what's in the diary, right?

[00:40:48] Right. And it's just, they're heartbreaking words, you know, she'll say, young boy with a dog and then his final words are like, please don't hurt my dog. And it's so heartbreaking and I'm like, you monster Claudia! Yeah.

[00:41:02] But at the same time, I'm tremendously attached to her as a, as her humanity, whatever aspects of her humanity that she performs and I think, oh, Delaney just made that happen. Delaney's wholly responsible for that for me.

[00:41:19] Right. Right. So yeah, we're doing spoilers through season two. So she is dead at the end of that season as she is at the end of this first book. So we don't get her perspective on the events the same way we get like Louis and Armand's perspectives, but we get her diaries. And I'm wondering, do you think in some ways, her diaries are kind of like the most reliable narrator in this first two seasons?

[00:41:45] I would have said yes, except for something that happens in season one. I think yes, generally. All right. So generally, yes. But I also think that in season one, we learn that both Louis and Lestat read her diary because she goes through kind of an emotional crisis and they are concerned about her and Lestat reads her diary.

[00:42:09] And I always, Joanne and I have had conversations about this on the podcast, which is once someone reads your diary and they invade your privacy that way, are you ever going to be completely honest in your diary again?

[00:42:27] And I or do you always write with the thought that someone could read it and then are you editing in some way? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I think I would. Right. You know, there's no answer given. So this is one of those areas where you're left to speculate.

[00:42:43] And I think that she. I think that there probably are moments of unguarded honesty, but I think I think probably she's mostly guarded in what she's in, what she's writing or, you know, thinking, well, you know, if if Louis reads this, I hope he reads this.

[00:43:02] And I'm going to say something that's hurtful because you're hurting me and I'm sad and I'm going to put this in here. And if you read it, I don't care. You know, so maybe there's like some kind of overly brutal honesty in the diary. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:46] So one of the interviews that you that were mostly seeing the show through is in twenty twenty two Dubai with an older Daniel Malloy played by Eric Boghossian. So what did you think about that new dimension added with the double interviews?

[00:44:00] One of the most brilliant aspects, I think, of the creation of this show was to do that was to because in the book, as readers of the book know, the boy, the interviewer is really not present. It's he's there, but it's it's just he's very limited interaction.

[00:44:21] Right. You know, the beginning and then more interaction at the end where, you know, you sort of get a feel for that character. But bringing in Eric Boghossian, first of all, brilliant actor.

[00:44:32] And he just brings all the, you know, like those funny asides that break up these devastating moments.

[00:44:40] Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, he's acerbic and he's just world weary. And his character is actually suffering from a disease, Parkinson's. And he is he's just sort of over it. It's covid. He's just you know, he's just kind of over the whole thing. He's had a couple of divorces. He's estranged from his children.

[00:45:01] He's world weary, but he also represents us, the viewers. Right. He's the audience to this. And he is in it and able to ask the questions that we might have as audience like, you know, OK, well, pull that thread, Daniel. And he usually does pull the threads that we want to have pulled. I thought that that was what did you think of it? Did you like?

[00:45:22] Yeah. Yeah. No, I thought it was it was great because it also added this extra mystery element, which especially became a big part of season two with the what happened in the 70s in San Francisco. And so that gave another opportunity to add more dimension to also Louis and Armand's characters.

[00:45:42] So just also to show because we see like at the end of the first season, we see Louis and Armand step forward and be like, oh, by the way, Louis says this is I just told you this whole story about this like fantastic love I had with somebody. But this is actually the love of my life. The guy who's been like serving you martinis in the background.

[00:46:02] That was there you go. And that was one of the big that was one of the big mysteries in season one is like who is Rashid? Because Assad Zaman, who is who's playing Rashid in the first season as sort of Louis' man servant.

[00:46:18] And he's he's lurking in the background of the interview and sort of helping. You know, he's the admin for Louis, does everything for Louis. And then, as you mentioned at the end, it's revealed he's not Rashid at all. He is a very powerful five over 500 year old vampire Armand.

[00:46:35] And the love at this point, the love of Louis' life, except, you know, at the end, Louis looking and it's like, yikes. Blink Louis if you need help, man. Because then you but then they say like, oh, I loved what was it? How long have they been together in like 77 years? And then immediately Armand is like 47 more than Lestat.

[00:46:59] Oh, God, because there's so much there's history there that we don't know about yet. Right. In the book readers again, book readers will know that there's history between Armand and Lestat. Right. But it's you know, you don't know if you're watching the show. You don't know what that that that history is if you've not read the books. And it's it's great because you do see you do see that Louis has this mythological ex in Lestat.

[00:47:24] And now he's he's essentially in a rebound with Armand. And Armand is constantly feeling like he's got to compete with Lestat, who, spoiler alert, he himself had a relationship with. Right. You know, hundreds of years ago. Right. And he's not even competing with Lestat because Lestat's not present to remember the bad side of him. He's competing with Dreamstot. Dreamstot. The perfect memory.

[00:47:50] Well, yeah. Well, still. And but that's the thing. And that's the realism of this. And I think that the writers captured this so well. I think that all of us have that sort of as I said before, a mythological ex who even if it was a bad relationship, even if it ended badly for whatever reason, a lot of times people still hold that person in a little place in their heart and they go, oh, if only if only it hadn't have ended so badly. Right. What a remarkable.

[00:48:20] Only he hadn't been a raging narcissist. What a wonderful relationship we could have had, you know, it would have been perfect. So then when that that kind of memory gets built up and built up and then Louis does manifest it as Dreamstot in season two. But yeah, that's who that's who Armand is, is always in his mind competing with.

[00:48:42] But also Armand himself is mourning the loss of relationship with Lestat, his own relationship. Right. So it's very complex, very complex.

[00:48:53] So, yeah, we have to in terms of like who the real Lestat is. Of course, we meet him at the end of season two. We'll get to that. But we have to talk about the number one thing people talk about from the first season, which and which is, you know, content warning for domestic abuse when they get into this big fight.

[00:49:11] And Lestat ends up flying him up in the air like two stories and dropping him so that he doesn't die. But he's just has a long, horrible, painful recovery. And we see that recontextualized a bit. Do you think what we saw from season two about Louis side of things changes what we saw in season one at all for you?

[00:49:41] So I'll be honest, the first going back to season one, seeing episode five, which is the the the the episode where this terrible fight happens.

[00:49:51] I the only thing I thought maybe was missing was a trigger warning, trigger warning for domestic abuse. But I think that it always made sense to me, even canonically.

[00:50:06] Canonically, it made sense to me because and describes Louis and Lestat kind of pushing each other around. Lestat never flew him up in the air two kilometers and dropped him. But there were physical altercations. So it didn't shock me that that happened. They're monsters, right?

[00:50:25] They're they're they're vampires and they've got superpower and they got angry at each other and they did that. Do I condone it? No. Would I say to Louis, just forgive him? No. I would have said to Louis, kick him to the curb, man. That's that's going to happen again. Right. But it sort of I wasn't as bothered by it when I when I saw the first the first fight happen.

[00:50:51] What it does, though. Where that recontextualization comes in is during this trial that is being put on by the theater of vampires and. And then to me, what was most important in that was Santiago saying to the audience in the theater, we're monsters. Right. Like what's a bite between friends or whatever?

[00:51:17] Whatever Santiago's exact line was. But I felt that that was the writers using Santiago to talk to not only the theater audience, but us, the audience, and reminding them that, yeah, like these are bad. These are bad creatures. They're going to do bad things like their fights are going to be on 11.

[00:51:39] And it's not going to be like a fight. And it's not the same. Also, we have to give them license to be able to behave in monstrous ways. So I don't know if that answers your question. What did you know?

[00:51:54] I mean, I thought. Well, first of all, I thought it was really cool that we see now that we see like more of the fight that led up to that moment of Lestat flying him up there. We see like people found like a dent in the coffin, you know, that was planted there in season one and just all these details like that. Like this was always the plan.

[00:52:14] What I found even more interesting than that was the framing of their meeting where Lestat is talking about how Louis stalked him and you know, his eyes all over me. And that was just like, he's not like, it's not like Louis wasn't obsessively thinking about him, wasn't, you know, and that would have, yeah, he's not completely wrong, but it's just, you also want to throttle him at the same time.

[00:52:40] You're misrepresenting this so much.

[00:52:43] Well, you know, especially the come to me part. Right. I think that Louis would have been OK if he had said, yeah, he was attracted to me, too. We were both attracted to one another because we says in Louis says himself in the first season, I wanted to be the man and I wanted to kill the man. Right.

[00:53:02] So I think that Louis would have admitted an attraction, but Lestat went too far. He put his own words into Louis's mouth and come to me is a huge thing like this is a big deal. This is repeated. There's a song that Lestat creates. And but it's so.

[00:53:23] So that was I think that's the thing that bothered Louis the most because the union is sort of like, I didn't say that you were the one that would you were in my head. And then and I and also I think that Louis, too.

[00:53:37] I think that it's a very human moment again when we look back on our relationships that have ended, potentially, we obviously are going to remember ourselves in a more favorable light. We are going to probably be more of the victim in the relationship than the you know, than the perpetrator of things.

[00:53:57] Or, you know, so so as time goes on, you were done more badly and then probably if you were then forced to engage with the person, then maybe was the truth. Right. Because you're going to be on your own side. And I think that Louis is on his own side.

[00:54:14] Yeah. And I also we had a lot to say about Sam Reid and his brilliance, but I also have to shout out Jacob Anderson as Louis. He was just just the depth of nuance. You know, I've seen him in stuff before. Obviously, he was Grey Worm in Game of Thrones. He was on Doctor Who. You know, he's done lots of stuff. But really, he I did not know his game before this.

[00:54:37] I, you know, I wonder like same. I had I had the same sort of interactions with his work as you do. Also, he's Raleigh Richie. He does music, which I found out later. I found that out after the show. But really talented guy and his the fact that they somehow were unable to release this in time for Emmy consideration this year, particularly really breaks my heart.

[00:55:07] Because Jacob should be there multiple episodes. There are multiple episodes they could send in to show his brilliance. He really interview with a vampire is is Louis story. This is and this is I think sometimes where Chronicles readers who have read all of the Chronicles and they are looking for Lestat to be a certain way that you know, Lestat is the Lestat in the later Chronicles.

[00:55:35] He's a very different Lestat in the in the first book. And it's Louis story. And Jacob, Louis perspective, because it's Louis perspective and it's and Jacob absolutely owned that and took it to such a great next level with the you know, obviously the writers showrunners created this character Louis, who is a much stronger agent with more autonomy in the in in this telling in this.

[00:56:04] In the book, especially the second season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100% in he's still introspective. He's still, you know, sort of self loathing. I would say that Louis, you know, in the book and in the series doesn't really know who Louis is for the majority of it really for the book, the entire thing. He really doesn't ever get to like who really Louis is. It's this existential crisis.

[00:56:33] And in the series, it is that but you just see a much stronger Louis in in the series and Jacob is the is I think the one who really fleshes him out that way.

[00:56:46] Right. Yeah, just if just the way and another thing I love about this show is that these are characters who live for decades or centuries. And you can see the way they show them changing over times like Louis accent and mannerisms. And you know, it just Yeah, you can see him aging and he becomes more still the older version. His accent is more neutral.

[00:57:17] Yeah. And he's so good at it. He's he's so good at it, especially his New Orleans accent. I've heard from New Orleans natives who say it's really spot on. I mean, he's so he's so good. And and I would say.

[00:57:35] I do. There's one. Yeah. What's that? Delaney to Delaney to. So I was going to say if there's one criticism that I think that people had, I had personally, but I know others did too with Bailey's performances that maybe her accent was a little off in the first season. But Delaney's is just very, very good as well. And she's British.

[00:57:59] Right. So, you know, when you hear her speak, when you hear Delaney speak, it is so radically different than her Claudia, because Claudia is just so more it is a little bit more gregarious and outgoing and sassy. And Delaney is not. She's very she's very serious, serious person. And and just the way that she I thought she's. Yeah.

[00:58:26] I mean, she she is there. I mean, she the interviews that I've seen with her, she's very she's a more quiet. She's quiet. OK. OK. Just kind of and thoughtful. And, you know, she's not not she's she's of course, she's fun and she laughs and all of that. But she just seems like a more thoughtful, quiet person, which contrasted to Claudia to me was just really different.

[00:58:51] But yes, Jacob's performance. You can't say enough. And it's interesting because we started out talking about Sam Reid because he is so great as Lestat. But truly these two seasons, Jacob carried it.

[00:59:05] Yeah, it is. It is, you know, Louis story. And I just loved in terms of going back and recontextualizing season one, the scene where they go back to when Claudia was turned. And that's just what I can't get out of my head. Him saying like she called me an angel, me.

[00:59:24] And then he's dragging her body across the floor and just visually it is the cinematography and the production design is just next level. And they just create this like triangle of tragedy with him leaning with her again behind her and Lestat just standing there like, what is my life right now? And fire all around them. It's just such a beautiful show visually and like the way it tickles the brain. You know what I mean?

[00:59:50] Absolutely. And Claudia's turning is one of the things that is different from the books. And I think really well done. It adds a different layer. It complicates Louis more. And obviously when we saw the recontextualization of it, even more complicates Louis and who Louis is.

[01:00:14] We had a guest host on with talking about that episode, and he pointed out to us that when Louis says that about she thought that I was an angel, me. That's not just sort of Louis feeling like he's special and he needs to save her because it's going to redeem him for this act that he did that caused the burning of Storyville.

[01:00:41] It's redeeming him because of what something his mother said to him, which was that he had the devil in him. And it just blew my mind when our guest host said that because I thought, wow, that just the writers are just digging back into really forcing us to look back at season one and think through, OK, yeah, this is his trauma.

[01:01:08] This is Louis trauma. You're really seeing his sort of family of origin wound exposed and how he's making really bad decisions to heal those wounds, as many of us do. It's a very human situation.

[01:01:25] Yeah. One thing I loved from this season two finale is when he goes back to New Orleans and he follows that tour guide, which I love to take a tour like that. I've taken those tours in New Orleans, but you just hear like the tour guide is just has everything twisted, the wrong names, you know, nice book references in there.

[01:01:43] But just telling the story in a fantastical way where he just absolutely knows nothing. And I think you see something almost to heal a little bit in Louis, just to realize like no one knows what happens. And I think that's sort of one of the things that I got out of the finale of season two.

[01:02:01] Like no one knows what happens back in that day except for Lestat, Louis and Claudia. And they kind of emphasize that at the end of season two when the two, Lestat and Louis meet and they have it out and they share a whisper that we never get to hear because no one else is ever going to fully be in on that relationship.

[01:02:21] Right. And it's interesting because in season one, you see how people in the neighborhood are starting to get suspicious of them because I mean, they're these they're not invisible. They're a part of society and they are never changing. And everybody around them is getting older. And these people are remarkably staying, you know, the same as they ever were. Especially Claudia, right?

[01:02:47] She may be changing her style of dress, but she's not aging. And so she's always 14. And so they do get suspicious. But like you said, by the time you get to modern day, those memories have gone. And there for somebody who is a historian, I loved that little detail of how they created a folk tale or really essentially like a story.

[01:03:17] Like a, you know, a legend about this house that wasn't at all accurate. But the people who could have set them straight are gone. So they don't know. You know, they just don't know the reality of it. And then except obviously Louis, who is there. And and that made me consider immortality and how how tough that is. And we we get glimmers of that in some of the conversations Armand says to Madeline at one point in this in season two.

[01:03:47] You know, what will you do when everything has changed and the hairstyles and the style of dressing are gone? Right. And and what he's talking about there is Armand struggles because, of course, he's been alive for over 500 years. He struggles to stay attached to the modern age. And he likes to find companions at different times who will help attach him to the modern time and help him explain that. That's book Armand.

[01:04:15] But you can hear that a little whisper of that in what he says to Madeline, which is what will you do when things have changed? Right. And what and everything he's projecting himself. Yeah. Yeah. What what will you do when everything that, you know, has changed and is gone all, you know, and and Louis Louis really goes through that. Right. And I think at the end when he comes back and he listens to that story and he kind of smirks and he's like, oh, boy, you know, I think he is on his path to self-actualization at that point.

[01:04:45] And he is healing. And I think that he he accepts that in kind of a funny way, like, OK, yeah, hilarious, you know, instead of being upset about it and feeling like, oh, I must set the record straight. But although he is doing this interview, he does want the record. He does want the money.

[01:05:03] He's trying to sort things out in his own head. Yeah. All right. Well, before we move on officially from season one, do you have any moments or lines you want to shout out? Season one? Oh, you know, I always go with the funny lines.

[01:05:19] I think there's a scene that Sam does in that as Lestat in the train when he goes to collect Claudia. Claudia is going to be running away at this point. She's been given she's been given the go ahead by Louis to get out and go.

[01:05:38] And Lestat goes to bring her back because Lestat knows that without Claudia, Louis is just going to crumble. And this is the way that he can maintain control of Louis is by keeping Claudia close. And and he tears the head off of the train conductor and uses it as a puppet and says, tickets, please.

[01:06:03] That lives rent free in my head. Yeah, 100 percent. It does that. That was a that was a that to me. I think that was one of my standout. You can't you can't not. I will tell you that in also in season one has one of the worst lines ever. I can't. It also lives rent free in my head and I wish I could get it out.

[01:06:22] Bad daddy. Oh, with Antoinette when Lestat is is sort of messing around with Antoinette in front of Louis and he refers to himself as bad daddy. I'm like, no, no, stop.

[01:06:39] But I do love like the daddy duo moments with Claudia, like when they're bickering about her skirt and or just like these general like sitcom scenes. But with a vampiric twist, like, oh, you're ornery teenager is killing the entire neighborhood. What do you do?

[01:06:55] Oh, my God. You know? Yeah. And oh, I don't I'm not sure about that skirt. Oh, well, it's fine. It's just so good. And I mean, I don't know, just as a couple, as two parents who are sitting there watching their girl.

[01:07:14] The interesting thing, too, for me is that Lestat and Louis, once Claudia has been created, there is this kind of competition. You can feel it for who is Claudia going to be more like? Is she more like Louis or is she more like Lestat now?

[01:07:30] She's more truth be told. In the end, she's more like Lestat. And the you know, many people have remarked on the irony that the person or the vampire that she could have probably been really good companions with would have been Lestat.

[01:07:44] And they were always at they were always at odds because they were fighting over Louis and Louis's attention. And, you know, Louis is the water that breaks the rock, you know, just seeps into the into the cracks in the rock and breaks it because he just I don't know.

[01:08:02] He just everybody is well and in the vampire universe. It's not inaccurate to say that all of the vampires are just obsessed with Louis. And they are in this too.

[01:08:14] Hmm. Well, that's fair. Although I have to say I have more of a crush on the actor than the character he plays in this case because he's more like goofy as a real person, you know, more like not so self serious. Louis is so self serious.

[01:08:30] Oh, he is. He really is. He is. And even in the even at the end of season two, you can see that he is he is he is very serious. Louis takes Louis extremely seriously. And you can see that he's he's doing that again in in the by the end of season two.

[01:08:50] And Lestat is clearly the sort of comic relief and just more, you know, living outwards and sampling life. And Louis is much more of an internal navel gazing character.

[01:09:04] Well, I'm glad they took the time in this show versus and I understand the movie didn't have time to set stuff like this up. But the time to establish Louis family situation and, you know, his brother's apparent suicide and yeah, it just helped to flesh him out more as a character on the show. And why?

[01:09:24] Yeah. The why of what is Louis doing? Right. What is the motivation in the film? You lose some of that because they make Louis of you know, that he lost a wife and child and then he gets depressed about that. But the reality is that he lost his brother and he didn't trust his brother. He didn't believe in his brother. And this is sort of the font of Louis angst in the book.

[01:09:50] And there's a lot of religious struggling and things like that. And you get that more in the series than you do in the film. And I appreciated that.

[01:09:57] Yeah. And also to shout out to dances in the first season that first of all, the tap performance, which just, you know, going back to Jacob Anderson being surprisingly just around triple threat, I guess you would say he did it himself and also the Mardi Gras ball scene and that iconic dance between Louis and Lestat. So good. There's a really good dancing in the in Doctor Who this season and an episode called Rogue. And I really want them to mix them together.

[01:10:27] Wow. I haven't seen that. I haven't seen I haven't been able to watch. You know, when when the season is on, I am so locked in to interview with a vampire because I'm watching and rewatching and rewatching before I record. And then I'm doing roundtables. And so everything is like hyper focused on vampire interview with a vampire. So now is the season for me to go and watch everything. You know, House of the Dragon. And I'm going to get that. You've made me want to get into the acolyte.

[01:10:57] Yeah, I definitely recommend the acolyte. You don't really you don't need to know about Star Wars because it's set in a new part of the timeline and you can just get into it. It's like a murder mystery with space wizards.

[01:11:09] I love it. But see, I love the Star Wars universe. It's interesting because the Star Wars universe is one of those things where the fans really like I don't know how I how I would describe it almost like the fans love the universe but hate most of the media that's been created about the universe.

[01:11:28] I mean, I depend on you use air quotes with that use of the word fans, I say. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I guess you have that in every fandom people who are just like like people who go after the show because it's different than the book and it's different than the movie. Like, yes, it's its own thing.

[01:11:43] Right. I've never well in an interview with the vampire fandom, it's really wild because there are people who absolutely wanted the show to be canceled after this season because they do not they do not like Lestat and they want list they don't want to see Lestat's story at all. They just sort of like, I hope it gets canceled. Why would you do that to yourselves? It's such a good TV show.

[01:12:08] So I don't know why you do that to other people. You know, I would want that for other people. Yeah, it's fandom. So of course, last question before we take a quick break. Do you have a preference between season one and season two?

[01:12:20] I think season two. I think I like season. I think that there are elements of season one that I loved. Absolutely loved. I love the foundation building in season one, but season two for me and a lot of it has to do with Delaney.

[01:12:39] It just the characters were, you know, more fleshed out in season two. There were some things that I wish that we had a longer season for season two. I would have liked to have seen more sort of detail or a little bit slower story, particularly the last episode, episode eight.

[01:13:00] I would have liked to have seen the sort of the destruction of the theater as its own full show or episode, its own full episode. But yeah, I would say season two. What about you?

[01:13:11] Yeah, I guess I mean, season two and I'm probably going to wind up loving season three even more because I think each one is going to go back and add more layers that make me appreciate the story that's been told so far even more. You know what I mean? So I think it's just going to keep building is the feeling I have.

[01:13:27] So may there be, what did he say he wanted the creator like seven or eight seasons?

[01:13:34] Yeah, like I think he said like six, seven or eight. Which they really could do because they have so much to work with so many of her books. And like you said earlier, they are interweaving the later books into even season one so that it's fleshing out some of the characters.

[01:13:52] You know, Armand's backstory. You don't learn that in Interview with the Vampire. You don't you don't learn that until the vampire Armand. But it's it was woven into this this season and it's I think that's been great. But they there are whole books that they could just say, well, we're going to do our own our own version of this. It's a standalone show and it's about this.

[01:14:16] Yeah, whatever, whatever book they wanted to follow. Right. Okay, well, let's get into a season two and what else is going on the Immortal Universe after a quick break.

[01:14:28] Okay, so before we get into season two, we have to acknowledge that another show set in this universe has released a season and is working on the second season. And that is Mayfair Witches. How would you summarize this show?

[01:14:55] It is based on Anne's book, The Witching Hour. And I think that they've maybe tried. Well, I think it let's just say the witching hour. There are other books in the Mayfair Witches story, but I don't know that those writers really read those books. I think that they maybe barely read The Witching Hour. It is a dense, lengthy book.

[01:15:21] So I don't blame them, but also you're adapting it. You got to read it. It is a story of a young woman who discovers that she is a witch and that she comes from a family with a lengthy history of witches that are there's one powerful witch a generation.

[01:15:44] And they have a spiritual guide or some kind of right who is who helps them. He's kind of a helper. And you find out in later books what he is. But for the sake of this, he's just sort of this. I don't know, not really devil, but he's he's just kind of like a familiar that is around them and helps them.

[01:16:07] And and it's her story about how she comes to discover her, her, her powers and what that means. And this sort of family that she has never known in New Orleans. And she's a neurosurgeon who starts out living. She's living in on the West Coast.

[01:16:24] And and then she moves to New Orleans and embroils herself in this family and discovers her powers and kind of fights against accepting these powers. Right. Then she has some help from this organization, the Talamasca. And she's kind of coming to terms with all of this. And and that's it. That's the I mean, I don't know how else to really talk about that season.

[01:16:51] I guess we have to mention that. So there's also a member of the Talamasca is Cyprian character who becomes a love interest of hers.

[01:17:00] Cyprian Green. But she's also a love interest is this Lasher character who is a demon, the demonish. He's a demon. She call they call him their demon. That's the but I don't he's not really a demon. He's like a malevolent spirit kind of.

[01:17:18] He is kind of. Yeah, like he's a spirit. And then if they do carry on and they talk about Talatos, though, you will learn more about what Talatos is. But he's yeah, he's so there is a love interest. And like I said, he's a part of the Talamasca. That's a change from the book. It's just a very dense thick book that goes into deep family history.

[01:17:39] It seems like they combined him with a book with Aaron Lightner with two characters work in Michael. So if you're familiar with The Witching Hour, Michael and Aaron Lightner have been combined into one character called Cyprian Green. And yeah, it's it's an interesting it's an it's a really fascinating book. And it's not something that you could adapt in eight episodes.

[01:18:04] Right. And that's what they I think that's what they tried to do. And I think that's where they ran into some issues.

[01:18:09] Well, they went for a different vibe of it. It didn't have the attention to detail, but I did appreciate where, you know, sometimes it had this like dreamy, hallucinatory vibe that I thought that those scenes kind of worked better. But then it just kind of felt like the ends were frayed and it just wasn't as well put together because I went in with an interview with the vampire expectations and I was like, oh, I mean, this is OK. Do you think it's worth watching?

[01:18:35] Yeah, I think you I think you ought to watch it. I think that I'll be interested to see what they do with season two. I'm going to give it the grace to sort of say their mistakes were made. Right. I think that one of the biggest mistakes and I know that this is true is that the actors didn't really read the books. The writers.

[01:18:59] That's such a contrast with interview the vampire. Which is such a contrast. And I think, again, when I said that about interview, the actors knowledge of their book characters and canon really informs how they interact with the adaptation that they're being given to perform.

[01:19:18] And there's a there's a richness to their characters as a result. And that didn't happen in May for witches. And Beth Grant is a standout. She plays Carlotta in the May for witches. I think she was she was great. It was very. It's a it's very campy her performance, but she just nailed it. Harry Hamlin. He's a great character.

[01:19:43] But I think a lot of people tune in for Alexandria Daddario, who plays Rowan and Lasher is played by Jack Houston.

[01:19:51] And I love Jack Houston. And I think that Lasher could have been such a great character. I think that they showed the monster too soon. I think that they should have kept it a little dreamier and kept him more maybe, you know, it's like Jaws. Jaws worked because you didn't see the shark until you did.

[01:20:10] I think that Lasher didn't work because you saw him too soon. And here's this guy kind of standing with this hair, this blowout and a velvet jacket. And it just was sort of like, that's not scary. That's not even sexy. I don't know what's happening. And Jack Houston is demonstrably a handsome man. So I don't know what happened there.

[01:20:33] And then I guess the biggest disappointment for me, because I loved her so much in White Lotus, was Alexandria Daddario. I just did not believe that she was a neurosurgeon. And Rowan in the book is very strong and interesting. She was kind of a lost doe in this.

[01:20:51] She really was. She really was. So it sounds like I'm being super, super critical and I am because I entered it with interview, as you said, with certain expectations. The bar was very high for me. And then I was kind of like, well, you know, and I kept giving it the benefit of the doubt. And then at the end, I'm like, I can't. They really kind of made some poor decisions.

[01:21:15] I think, I hope that there has been some retooling of it. They did just finish shooting. So this isn't going to come out until 2025.

[01:21:25] Well, we know also that Roland Jones is brought on for a number of years and that's OK. So that has to do with Interview with the Vampire. But I do wonder if he's going to get more oversight on the overall Immortal Universe.

[01:21:38] Well, Mark Johnson, who is better of Better Call Saul fame and other things. I think he was also involved with maybe the Exorcist. He is the he's oversees the entire Immortal Universe.

[01:21:54] I do think that off the success of Interview with the Vampire and now the fact that they've re-upped with with Roland for another additional three years, I've got to think they've got to take heed and use him as some sort of agent of cohesion.

[01:22:15] I hope. He in Interview says that he, you know, he keep the different shows are separate shows and he's not trying to intervene. But he did say that with the upcoming Telemoska, he has had conversations with them. I hope he has with with Estes Balding who's running the Mayfair Witches.

[01:22:34] Yeah, because the I mean, the books do crossover the witches in the vampire books. So presumably they're going to be doing that. And obviously the more direct crossover is the Telemoska, which is this agency that's kind of like the Supernatural Bureau of Investigation, whatever. And, you know, controlling things. There's a comparable version of basically every fantasy.

[01:22:59] But they're getting their own spinoff show. So these are not based on specific book. What are you expecting from this Telemoska show that's been announced? Well, Telomaska, I think it is a book. Oh, yeah. There's a there's a book about the Telomaska. In on its own?

[01:23:21] Yeah. Or as part of one of the series?

[01:23:23] Oh, I mean, it's in the series. It's in the it's in the series. So I so OK, so we have Telomaska in interview with a vampire, which looks very different from the way that they showed Telomaska in the Mayfair Witches.

[01:23:40] So the witches has established Telomaska as this agency that, you know, maybe is a are bad guys and are trying to maneuver things. And then also they're kind of I don't know, they're doing weird things like squirting.

[01:23:56] I don't even if they go around with like a squirt can and they're squirting the outside of a building to protect the people inside the building. Right. Like that is not at all.

[01:24:06] That's that's a much more active Telomaska agency than what I would expect based on what I know from interview with the vampire, the books and the and the sort of lore of Telomaska.

[01:24:18] But I think that if I think if they do this show correctly, this is going to help us understand some of the bigger themes that came out in the adaptation of Interview with a Vampire that don't exist in the books, which is this sort of mystery of the great conversion and what is the great conversion.

[01:24:42] And I think that they're basing the great conversion on on those who must be kept in Akasha, an ankle in Queen of the Damned characters from Queen of the Damned. But I think that it may look a little bit different because the great conversion seems to be like, let's just populate the world with vampires is what it seems to be.

[01:25:01] But then who do you eat? But then who do you eat? Right. Because then at some point, you know, is everybody a vampire? But they do have the farm.

[01:25:09] That's also something that's mentioned in the in the first in the very first episode, I think, of Interview with a Vampire, the series. So there's some mysteries still hanging out there. And I think some of that will be uncovered in in the in the Telomaska.

[01:25:24] The Telomaska be really fun because they could do, you know, essentially it could be, you know, sort of telling telling stories about all of these, you know, this here's a vampire and you come across this vampire and well, what's this vampire story? So it could be vampire right kind of thing.

[01:25:40] Right, because that is a thing that starts to happen with the books is that, you know, you get into all these like various vampires who just pop up and like, let me tell you my story. So that could be a good and maybe not all those stories necessarily weave as tightly with the central bunch of stories. So that could be a good way to explore that.

[01:26:00] Yeah. They don't have rights to the werewolf or mummy books, right? I don't think so. I don't know exactly which books it is, but I really think it's just the Vampire Chronicles and those would be outside of the Vampire Chronicles.

[01:26:13] Do you think that we're going to see any of the Telomaska agents that we've met so far like Ciprian or Raglan James we meet in season two or Rilvasheed apparently works for the Telomaska?

[01:26:26] Yeah, and Sam. The all powerful vampire Sam who came out of nowhere, who was a double agent and working for the Telomaska as a member of the Vampire Theater but and now is a DJ who wears a decorative helmet. So it can only be Daft Punk, right?

[01:26:46] Yeah, exactly.

[01:26:48] All right. So I think yes, and as soon as we had Raglan James pop up, obviously Raglan James is from the Tale of the Body Thief as a character. He is the body thief, but now and was Telomaska. I think that he is going to, I wonder if Justin Kirk is going to be heading up the Telomaska show.

[01:27:14] I mean, because that's like a, I love Justin Kirk. Like that's an actor that you want to head up a show and this could be a good what we saw with him could be a good like backdoor pilot for that.

[01:27:26] I agree. Yeah, I think that would be amazing if he does show up. I think that they're all you know and then if they're going to have crossover, I would rather see it between something that's you know Telomaska and Interview with a Vampire than trying to do what Rowan is one of the loves of Lestat's life.

[01:27:51] Yeah, no we don't have time for that. No, I can't see. I can't see Sam unless well, I don't know. I can't see that happening. I can't see that working. Sam probably could elevate that interaction quite a bit. But I just don't know if I can buy that.

[01:28:08] Right. But yes, so I'd rather see the crossover I think between Telomaska and Interview with a Vampire and other properties that come. There was a rumored they were going to do a digital only show called Night Island that would have talked about Devil's Minion lore, right, about Armand's Night Island, again book lore, but that kind of has disappeared from that. That was prior to the writer's strike and now that we haven't heard anything more.

[01:28:34] Maybe they're absorbing that in Telomaska. They could, either that or they'll absorb it into Interview with a Vampire season 3.

[01:28:42] Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. All right, well let's get into season 2 what we haven't already discussed. Let's get into more season 2 specific stuff starting with the season starts in Eastern Europe and this is from the books but again they've shifted the time so I thought that was just I'm one of those people I'm like I've seen enough World War 2 stuff but this was a really cool different way to view it in just more not from the soldiers but from just the people who are trying to figure out how to get through the war.

[01:29:12] How to survive in the wake of all this. Oh, absolutely, and that thread of people on the home front, which in Europe was a very different thing than it is for Americans, right?

[01:29:29] So an American audience, maybe, certainly they have to understand that there were terrible things happening to civilians during World War 2 but it just wasn't on our shores so I loved that they brought that to the forefront and in fact Madeline as a character is a great example of how war can impact civilians both during the war and after the war.

[01:29:58] Because of decisions that you make during the war and yeah so I thought it was fascinating to show the destruction on the home front and how people, just people, are trying to live through that.

[01:30:14] It was a great way for Louis and Claudia to encounter the revenants, which was obviously different from the book because of the time shift.

[01:30:25] That this is a time of upheaval. It is a time where you know scary things are going bump in the night, but it's literal, you know, I mean it's war right? And occupation afterwards occupation.

[01:30:38] So I thought that the the time shift was was really terrific. In both seasons but really informed some of the character development in season two in a very good way.

[01:30:52] They really like, the first time they ripped my heart out this season was when we met Morgan Ward and Emilia, the Britishman and his, where were they? They were in Ukraine? I think that they were in Ukraine. I think that they were in Ukraine, yeah.

[01:31:09] And yeah and then at the end she gets bitten by something and all the people want to kill her and she's just begging basically Louis to help her and he just kind of like... Or were they in Romania? Oh yeah, Romania that makes sense.

[01:31:23] Yeah I think that they were in Romania. Because Daciana was speaking Romanian at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were in, they did, they did do...

[01:31:30] They went through Ukraine because Claudia apparently speaks all these languages which I asked, I asked someone like how is her accent and they're like well you know she doesn't pass as native. Fair.

[01:31:44] But I loved also that Madeline called her out later for her shit French and she's like yeah. Yes it was, it was good. It was good.

[01:31:52] Yes Morgan and Emilia that's a heartbreaking, I mean again in the books it's a very sad story but I loved seeing Blake Ritson in that role because it said it was so good to see him not being in the Gilded Age.

[01:32:08] I loved him in the Gilded Age right but he was so good.

[01:32:11] He was a completely different character. I couldn't even, I was like I know him but I couldn't pin who it was I had to go you know look on Google who he was and I was like oh yeah he needs a little different mustache yeah.

[01:32:22] Yeah, yeah it's a heartbreaking, it's a heartbreaking scene but also it's the first time I think that we see Louis turning his back on human issues and I think it's very, it's a critical scene.

[01:32:35] I think that a lot of people in retrospect are kind of, kind of look at episode one and they say well maybe episode one could have been condensed or did we really need to have that episode. No I think we needed it yeah.

[01:32:45] I think we needed it because I think it shows this shift in, well for many reasons but mainly in Louis sort of seeing what's going to happen and something that he might have gotten himself involved in previously and trying to save Emilia.

[01:33:00] He just turns his back and sort of says that's not, that's not my business I'm a vampire I'm going to go find the vampire and that's, that's what he does.

[01:33:08] Yeah, yeah and we also we get the heartbreak I think we needed that set up for Claudia to have just like her desperation to find just a companion of someone who is less miserable than Louis I guess and less likely to leave her for the next pretty boy who comes by you know.

[01:33:25] Louis does have his head turned. I think that yes, Daciana for Claudia represents this potential for expanding her network but also she sees a woman, a vampire who is a woman and I think that's important to her.

[01:33:45] She's unable to see that this vampire has now sort of gone mad. And I think at first she thinks, I mean she can see that there's something going on there.

[01:33:58] But I think that she has hope that okay well if we just bring you along with us and you're just drinking good blood because the lore is that the blood is bad there because the war has impacted humans in such a negative way that the blood the vampires are ingesting is just causing issues and making, causing them to when they do turn vampires, try to turn vampires they, they can't kind of go back to normal.

[01:34:23] Get them to be the right kind of like a good vampire.

[01:34:26] They're just mindless sort of revenant weird vampires and Claudia sees that with Daciana that she's not right but she thinks okay I can save her and she obviously she cannot and it's a really hard lesson for again for Claudia that like even though I'm a vampire, even though I live forever, what is living forever mean?

[01:34:49] Because Daciana was clearly from a different century. She was not, you know, she was an older vampire.

[01:34:54] Right. Yeah. And then I mean so we have that set up so it means more when she meets Madeline after that but then also we get the setup of this impossible promise we know Louis can't keep me and you, you and me. Oh, Louis.

[01:35:10] Oh Louis, and then, and then the, the writers have complicated even more because they have Lestat sitting next to Dreamstot, sitting next to Claudia in the, in the truck as they're on their way there make their way to Paris now.

[01:35:25] And yeah, and just for the non readers who think there might be a shot that Louis is going to keep this promise no.

[01:35:32] No, there's never never never a chance you know what we didn't talk about though about season one. Really I don't think is that they kill Lestat. Right.

[01:35:42] Kill him, or think that they do, but then it's uncovered that well Louis you didn't burn him so you know he's not really dead. Right.

[01:35:50] And, and then, and then now he is revisited by the memory of, of, of Lestat and Dreamstot is what everyone started calling him and Dreamstot serves as Louis kind of unconscious. Like, it's Louis, it's not Lestat it's Louis. It's Louis version.

[01:36:13] Yeah, Louis speaking through Lestat so these are like Louis inner feelings. And so if you frame it that way and you think about that scene and Lestat turns to look at Claudia and he's looking at her so tenderly, that's not Lestat looking at her tenderly that's Louis looking at her tenderly.

[01:36:29] But it's also then he meets Louis gaze and it's sort of like, oh, I'm never going to be able to get away from you. It's not just you and me Claudia, it's you and me and it's him and my memory of.

[01:36:40] Yeah. And she knows that she knows that he's carry that he's carrying the stop with them everywhere they go to.

[01:36:47] Yeah, I think that she does. But I think that in that moment, she so desperately needs to be chosen that when he says you and me, me and you and she's doubting him you can see and Delaney here again this is this first moment that I fell in love with her she just glances up at him and says, Okay.

[01:37:07] And you can see that she's sort of like against her better judgment. Okay, I'm going to believe you. I'm going to trust you. And she always does. Like, do you have you watched have you watched The Last of Us?

[01:37:20] No, I haven't gotten into it yet, but I won't spoil anything, but I'll just say that there is a key moment where that's exactly the same. It's okay. I got I want to I've been wanting I've been dying to watch it.

[01:37:34] Yeah. Um, but then of course, Louis, it's not just a start because then he immediately has like the best first date ever with his new love of his life quote unquote Armand, who I love the scene where they're like just like chatting it up having a smoke flirting a little bit and there's absolute mayhem going on in this mansion in the background with fire and people falling out of windows and screaming.

[01:38:00] Oh, I know. It's hilarious. And that was actually one of the first trailers that the fandom got that it was of any length was that scene and you got to see Assad Zaman really bringing the swagger as Armand and he's such an attractive man and he just Assad does so much with his eyes and the interplay between Assad and Jacob was great.

[01:38:30] And I thought that they had tremendous chemistry. It's not. Is it the chemistry that Jacob has with Sam? No, but it's still great chemistry. And you could you could see why Louis would be intrigued by this.

[01:38:43] Right. It was believable. It was like it was exactly as it should be because we as viewers we know deep down Lestat is the one for better or worse. And yeah, Armand is is you know the one who the the the rebound as you said yeah.

[01:39:01] He is he's the bad pancake. You know he is he really is because he you know Louis thinks he's making changes as we often do with the rebound but you're not really making changes you're just you're just kind of slapping a plaster on a wound and right and not really figuring out what the hell went wrong and and you're moving forward.

[01:39:27] Right. That's not helping.

[01:39:29] They're both as imperfect and broken as Lestat but then not I think like they don't have as much passionate and love with for each other to overcome that because we've got on the one hand we've got Armand who's like either you can call him the misunderstood murder gremlin or the malevolent mastermind.

[01:39:47] But on the other hand we've got Louis who's like playing his sadistic dom game and who just has this like ugly temper that just is just gonna shred your ego or burn you alive literally. So do you think a guy with the temper and the fire gift.

[01:40:06] Right. Do you think like what's their real love between them?

[01:40:10] Yes. Yes. Yes there was I would say yes there was I would say that this is one of those those relationships where they loved each other but at different times and they missed their opportunity right like I think that and I think that Armand really saw something in Louis that attracted him.

[01:40:40] And I think that he did want with Armand it's always hard. I don't know how much it is that Armand is capable of loving. I think that Armand loves to be loved right.

[01:40:52] And so I think and Armand I think seeks TV show Armand actually is who I'm thinking of now. I think that he seeks love that will spring him from his last obsession or whatever whatever situation that he's in.

[01:41:08] And I think that he sees Louis as a as a fresh start in the clean way out and an attachment to this century right.

[01:41:14] In the same way that he was attracted to Lestat when he first met him when they were in the the the original coven before the theater happened. And he saw Lestat as a way to he calls it a reformation.

[01:41:27] It's a way to spring him out of this old tradition and into this new new life. Well it didn't go that way with Lestat and he wanted it to go that way with Louis. And then they ended up kind of in that weird relationship.

[01:41:39] But yes I do think that they loved each other and I think that the biggest surprise for Armand was when Madeline they're in a cafe. Right. And Armand's about to. Oh my god I love that scene. Yep he's about to betray Louis.

[01:41:54] And he they're sitting at the table and Madeline says I feel how much you love him. And why don't you ever tell him that. And at this point Armand has to get up and it's like so symbolic he gives him sort of the Judas kiss.

[01:42:09] And he walks to the door and he's about to betray them and let the theater the coven capture the Louis, Claudia and Madeline. And put them on trial.

[01:42:19] And I think in that scene in Assad's eyes and if I had ever a chance to interview Assad I would ask him what he thinks about this. But I kind of see in Assad's eyes at that point as Armand damn he loves me. And what have I done.

[01:42:35] Like what what have I done here. And he he's chosen the coven over Louis. But even then even then he could have made a different choice you know. Oh 100%. Yeah.

[01:42:48] See and this is where if I have any quibbles with the show and you kind of have to let this go. Because that thinking even then he could have done something. But I don't think that's that's a mark against the show.

[01:43:01] I think that that's realistic that you know even at the moment he's feeling regret he just feels so like there's such inertia with this plan.

[01:43:08] And I have a feeling that in season three we're going to get this all relitigated the same way we got season one relitigated this season. But I think that he just he was a coward you know. Well I think I think that he was.

[01:43:24] Could he have done something he could have. And I think that many fans are sort of like but dude you could have done something you could have stopped this you could literally have stopped.

[01:43:33] Stop the entire everybody from but he didn't whisk them all out and he chose to not. You know so. So then do you look at it as you are because what you're saying is that well it's just a flaw in the character.

[01:43:47] It's not a flaw in the way that the writers have crafted the lore. I think most people would not have stood up and changed things at that moment.

[01:43:55] I think people always think that they're going to be more independently thinking and more like the hero than people actually behave in real life. Absolutely true.

[01:44:04] And you're really giving me a new way to think about this because I've been sort of saying come on you could have done something you just didn't want to. And and that's that's I mean that's that's what you're saying. And I think you're right about that. Wow. OK.

[01:44:20] Because I've been I've been saying well he can't be all powerful and not all powerful. So even though at that moment he thought oh damn he does love me. He still chose to not do anything. It was a choice it was an Armand choice. Damn it.

[01:44:35] See this makes it hard to defend him. I mean but I still defend him because I think that it's not a unique it's not a weakness that's unique to him but it does. Yeah.

[01:44:47] We see Armand at his worst when we get that flashback to what happened in the 70s in San Francisco in the original interview. I love I posted that a screenshot of Armand at that moment like he's fine. Oh he's fine. You are fine. This is fine.

[01:45:05] We're all fine. And meanwhile young Daniels like is poor like young Daniels like going back and forth splattering against the ceiling in the floor like completely beaten up. And then we just see Armand completely.

[01:45:19] We know he's unspooling because he's literally unspooling the interview tapes like just with his you know telekinetic mind powers behind him. Such a cool effect. They really use the visual effects wisely in this show. Yeah.

[01:45:34] And then we see that like so Louis goes out and he he cannot live with what happened with Claudia and he attempts to kill himself. And then when he comes back in Armand could have healed him right away. Was that your interpretation?

[01:45:49] Well certainly I know that there was talk about that. I don't you know I don't know when he gave him his blood. Armand has very powerful blood and he his blood could help heal him whether or not it could help heal him immediately.

[01:46:05] It certainly did seem to me that there was a little bit of extended you know because you have Louis in the background saying please put me in my coffin. It hurts. Put me in my coffin and he's got Louis in a dark darkened bedroom.

[01:46:17] And so I do think that there was a little bit of Armand dragging his feet on helping to heal him. So yeah I would say I would say that you know how that is when you feel like you've you know his character feels that he's been tortured unnecessarily.

[01:46:36] Like Armand feels that he's doing all the heavy lifting. Louis is really messy in this relationship right now. Essentially he's an addict and he's living this addict lifestyle first giving drugs to young men and then draining them.

[01:46:50] And so he's you know he's high off of the drugs that they've ingested. And so and Armand says I clean up after you. This is my you know this is what I do. So he's in this kind of codependent relationship with an addict at this point.

[01:47:04] And then now the addict is completely under his under Armand's power. And he does do a little bit of you know knife twisting there. It's really difficult to watch. It's tough. That that episode was tough to watch. Yeah very good. Very tough.

[01:47:23] And also we it was tough from Daniel's perspective too because so we have the two types of Daniel. We have the younger version and the older version. And we find out that Louis has been the voice in the back of his head for all of his life.

[01:47:36] And you know older Daniel says he's ruined every relationship and you have to wonder if he would have been different if he hadn't met these vampires or I don't know.

[01:47:45] I kind of feel like maybe he wants to blame them for things that are just his own personality traits. What do you think? Do you think he's changed?

[01:47:54] Um I well obviously I think that that trauma even though it is unknown to him because Armand has the mind gift and he has meddled with Daniel's memory so that Daniel Malloy in the modern day does not remember all of the interview.

[01:48:13] He's starting to recover his memories but isn't remember the most of it. What what happened up until episode five of season two and then he and then he and Louis figure it all out.

[01:48:25] But I think he had that trauma that trauma did exist in his body and body has memory whether or not your mind has a conscious memory of it. There isn't there's there's a there is a memory of it.

[01:48:40] Well he also saw flashes of Armand's face so I think he repressed memories of it somewhere. Yeah yeah and I liken that to grief.

[01:48:51] There are many many people who have gone through loss of a loved one and I talk I've talked with a lot of people about this. Yeah. They say I might not be consciously thinking of that event.

[01:49:04] I can't I might not be consciously thinking of the anniversary of the death but something happens and I get depressed in the month that leads up to it or I'm you know I notice that I'm sad around the day and then I go oh gosh you know so the body has a memory I would argue I have no basis in fact for this.

[01:49:23] No this is just anecdotal. Yeah. But I think I think that Daniel is experiencing that and then to further back that up.

[01:49:32] Eric has talked about that in interviews that he sort of that muscle memory of trauma even if you've blocked it out even if you yourself have done a good job of blocking out bad things that have happened they still happened and I think that's going on for Daniel in the modern day.

[01:49:49] And I do think that that impacts sort of decisions that you make through life you know like yeah he wasn't able to keep his relationships together but he was able he goes but I was always a good journalist because he had in. Yeah. You know Louise. Yeah.

[01:50:04] You're a bright young journalist with a point of view. Yeah. All right.

[01:50:10] We've already talked a lot about DreamStop but I just want to point out that I thought it was so cool that they had him wear slightly different colored contacts based on you know what whose perspective we were getting this just such that attention to detail.

[01:50:23] That heartbreaking goodbye on the bench was a lot and I just overall this was like a brilliant way to keep Sam read and play all season because you don't want to lose the start you know as a character you don't want to lose that actor.

[01:50:36] I hope they do the same thing with other characters. Claudia. They have to. We'll get into the book stuff but yeah.

[01:50:43] I think that that's I think that that's a lock because I would say that that the only reason to have scheduling issues with Bailey is because they need Claudia for a season that is upcoming. Right because they haven't started filming Avatar isn't she in Avatar 4 even or something?

[01:50:58] Yeah she's going to be in the next Avatar and that's why. Oh three or okay it doesn't matter anyway. They haven't started filming as far as I know.

[01:51:04] No they haven't and I think that they may be coming up and so you know you have they had to make that that difficult choice because I mean Bailey was beautiful and she was a really she was really good as young Claudia as 14 year old Claudia.

[01:51:20] Yeah and one character we haven't mentioned that I know is going to come into play more next season is Nikki Lestat's human turned vampire boyfriend and we found out all we found out is that he was unhappy and he died but I have a feeling we're going to find out a lot more about that next season.

[01:51:36] Oh for sure.

[01:51:37] Yeah and what they're going to do this is this is very exciting for book fans is that now we're going to get the vampire Lestat and it's something that we really we got it a little bit I guess in well not even a little bit but you get the rock star Lestat in Queen of the Damned the film but but that has nothing really to do with any of the books it was just not very great movie.

[01:52:02] So now we're going to get we're going to get Nikki Stott and that is a big fan favorite. A lot of the readers of the of the books are very invested in the relationship between Nikki and Lestat and so I'm excited to see it I'm excited to see what they do and Joseph Potter, you know, we didn't see much from him, but I know people who have seen him.

[01:52:23] Many of these well I'm almost all of these actors are theater actors that are populating the series and people that have seen him on stage say he's fantastic so I am very excited to see what they do with Nikki's character because that's a yeah. Yeah.

[01:52:41] No, I'm very excited to because obviously this is something they've been planting and planning ahead so it's going to have a satisfying payoff.

[01:52:49] It's more reason to make Armand more problematic because I don't like in season in this last season and the trial, you know, they reference Nikki and then Lestat looks at Armand and says well you know he had some help, you know, Nikki ended up, you know, not doing well and dying and then he had some help and he looked at Armand so now you know, Armand was a bad boy again.

[01:53:13] We also have to shout out the season two character Santiago book character obviously played by Ben Daniels who was just I cannot imagine a more perfect casting in the world just like really nailed it just made him someone you wanted to love and then love to hate and then we're happy to see he's beheaded.

[01:53:34] Well, you know, yeah and he was he was so terrific of a character and I just he again the actors made characters that in the book and in the film kind of fell flat weren't that important weren't really that fleshed out they fleshed out Santiago to the point where I'm sort of like well can we save Santiago though like I mean he's so interesting.

[01:54:01] Yeah, especially because there was teases like he said something about his master and I'm like, because that's not something they tell you in the book so now I'm like well now I want to know the story of this master. So I wonder if we might actually find out.

[01:54:14] But he had, I love the details like if you watch it has such a high rewatch value this show because then you start to when you have your mind freed up from this stuff going on up front, you can pay more attention to what's going on in the background like the fact that Santiago has this entire love triangle between these other two vampires Celeste and ugly play out in the background and it's something you can just completely miss and it's fine it won't affect your viewing of the show, but it just shows that.

[01:54:41] You know there's a whole coven there with like, with a Celeste friend Estelle and Gustav and Kwan and Twan who are father and son but kind of reversed in looks and age.

[01:54:53] All this stuff going in the background such a rich world like they could just set a little spinoff show just in the coven in the years leading up to this, I would devour that I would devour that and that's that's kind of like what I was thinking with the Tala Mosca when I made that, you know, I sort of said offhandedly

[01:55:11] that they could do kind of a vampire of the week, but wouldn't it be interesting if they would go back and they would do sort of like okay who who are these vampires I would love to know more because and again you're right the writers created fully formed characters of background characters.

[01:55:28] Yeah, like my goodness. And I would say also we talked about it in this this week's episode of vampire insider is the love that Santiago potentially has for Armand.

[01:55:43] Is he is he in love with Armand and that's a that's a question, you know, so is it just a love triangle with the two women or is part of Santiago's issue with Louis that he loves Armand.

[01:55:56] Yeah, and they they also unexpectedly made me fall in love with vampire Sam Sam Barclay who may may not turn up. It was very interesting. Well, first of all, they gave us that like waiting he played waiting for Guido and during enduring for Guido Oh, enduring for Guido's

[01:56:17] is the play which is you know, which is type for waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett who's also Irish also named Sam so then you're like, Hmm, are they making suggestions there? That's funny. Christopher Greer was great. At the end he's revealed that he's now a DJ and Tom Oscar

[01:56:37] like they could just slot him in the background in history so many different ways. I hope that he comes back. But why do you think Louis Louis said four people escaped and then he went in and told in great detail about killing three of them and then just fails to mention Sam until pressed on it. Why do you think that is?

[01:56:56] This is one of the theories that I have that didn't play out. We didn't see it play out in this season, but maybe it's still there. I just always wonder how much Louis and Armand know about the Tala Mosca.

[01:57:12] And are they already in some way were right with them or involved with them? Because, of course, they have the real Rashid, who was also a Tala Mosca agent. I don't I don't know. I mean, he was working in the in the house with them, but I don't know what they know. So it could be. Did they know? Did it in the end? Did it did it turn out not at the time? Did he know he was Tala Mosca? But does it turn out that he knows he was Tala Mosca and so he didn't go and seek revenge or what? I don't know. I just don't know.

[01:57:42] You know, the explanation that we had in the show was simply time heals Daniel. So, yeah, that doesn't that's not a very Louis thing to say.

[01:57:54] But in my mind, I'm wondering if Sam knew something was coming. Right. Like just got himself out of the coven. Just took off. He just wasn't around. He got himself out and Louis didn't go in and bother with him because, you know, he's he's sort of like, well, I knew I would get most of them or some of them and some of them might get away. But whatever.

[01:58:17] Sam. And again, it's sort of like, who was Sam? Sam was so ineffectual. He was the guy that was like he wrote the plays, but he was also the guy that's cleaning up condoms and popcorn in the theater.

[01:58:31] But it's also like they they call attention to the fact that maybe we should be paying more attention. You know, when Daniel asked at the end, like, wasn't he in two places in your story? And but I love also and I have to wonder how they're telling the story with Sam backstage is mouthing all the words that in the start script and getting so frustrated him in Santiago when the stock goes off script.

[01:58:55] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, Sam is standing there supposedly guarding Armand, you know, and he's and he's just aggravated that the thing that they're off script and he's aggravated by it. I can understand that as a playwright going, well, they act.

[01:59:10] How much time did they put into this? Because they made an entire ass animation like that must have taken a long time.

[01:59:16] Right. Well, they were closed for some time. The theater. Yeah. And so they really put their all into this. They really did. Oh, it was so dramatic. Like, you know, but see, this is where when you get dramatic like that. Yeah. Things fall through the cracks. The plan inevitably fails.

[01:59:32] They've obviously never watched, you know, spy movies or whatever. Someone's talking too long at the end of the villains talking too long. I don't know. Yeah. Something went awry there. But basically, Louis was pretty successful at his revenge.

[01:59:46] I mean, what do you think? And this is something that I love about it, by the way, that I think there's a whole list of rules that they gave, which is like kind of arbitrary bullshit that they've decided their society policies rules because Lestat came in hundreds of years ago and says, said your rules suck. You should do it differently. And they changed and they could do that again.

[02:00:05] But they have this list of rules and technically, you know, Louis and Claudia and Madeline have broken them all. But then also, like when you really look at it, they haven't really broken any of them, especially since they didn't even know about them for most of this. But like, okay, so Claudia told the lie about her maker.

[02:00:27] They attempted to murder Lestat, although Louis obviously stopped from like going all the way through with it. Obviously, they turned the child vampire. Lestat was involved in that. Louis didn't join the coven. They turned Madeline, quote unquote, without Armand's permission, whatever that means.

[02:00:46] So, yeah. What actually was their crime? Because they didn't even really they were just like you were bad. They didn't really seem to narrow it down. They just. We're really throwing everything at them. And even when Lestat is standing there on stage saying this is bullshit, I should also burn.

[02:01:03] Yeah, well, they just and that's where I think you have to go into. You know, you have to believe that Claudia as being turned and she's now a child vampire. Well, she's that she could be potentially a liability. She's all of that. So, you know, I understand the risk there. But is it her fault that she was turned? No.

[02:01:25] So by the same token that it's not really Madeline's fault that she was turned and she was given the opportunity to be in the coven. Well, then would you then then then I guess Claudia is on the hook more for probably being a part of Madeline than being a child vampire because he would think she'd get grace and said they'd have to say, well, it's not really your fault.

[02:01:48] I mean, just even I mean, but he's in New Orleans. He's not under the he was not under the law of any coven. Right. There was no coven there as far as we know. Right. And what do you think Madeline ever do especially?

[02:02:16] Nothing. Well, and they gave her the choice. They said they acknowledged it. You know, you it really wasn't her fault. It's not fair to to condemn her. She should be given the opportunity to join the coven. And for once in in in her life, someone chooses Claudia. And Madeline says those poignant words. Claudia is my coven.

[02:02:38] Yeah. And I love how they switched who was cradling who versus the movie at the end, you know, because it makes sense. Claudia is the older vampire. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. She might look more like the child. But yeah. What do you think that Santiago was whispering to Madeline at the trial?

[02:02:54] I don't know. And I would love to. I know that people have tried to isolate, but no one can. No one's come up with it yet. I I don't know what he's saying. He's he's bedazzling her. Right. Like she's right. She's she's being hypnotized in some way or her mind is being muddled by him. I don't know. I it could be that he's you know, that Santiago's vibe was to dig in and find the things that you're ashamed of.

[02:03:21] Mm hmm. And it could be something like that. Right. Like purely speculation, but he could be the way that he makes the victims on stage accept death is by digging into their psyche and finding out the things that they're most embarrassed of. Their biggest shame. Maybe he told her to go through with the death rather than join the coven.

[02:03:45] Could be. That could be definitely. I mean, that would presuppose that he knew that it was coming, that they were going to ask her that question. But yeah. Or give her that opportunity. But yeah, it could be. I feel like who knows.

[02:03:59] They've got to revisit. That's got to be one of the things they revisit when they look at this again from Armand's perspective, I'm predicting. I hope so. Bring back Santiago. I need more. Yes. But yeah, just pouring one out for Claudia had the most tragic storyline. She went from losing her life to traps a child with the most toxic parents to finding her people to being forced to behave like a child for decades to actual happiness and to a big F you from the universe.

[02:04:27] It's true. But isn't that life? It is. All you want to do is grow up when you're a kid. And she's never allowed to really do that. That's a horrible thing.

[02:04:42] Yeah. And she Madeline like that's the biggest tragedies when she found Madeline like played by by the way, Roxanne Duran, who was brilliant. And she just I didn't I don't think much about Madeline at all from the book, to be honest. She's just like a tragic detail in Claudia story. But here she's more complex, obviously, with that backstory with her being a you know what people see is a Nazi sympathizer. I know you got in trouble for saying that on your podcast.

[02:05:08] Well, yeah, I had a conversation. But but I mean, true that her neighbors saw her that way. Were there complexities? And this is what I was pointing to when you said about changing the the storyline so that there are the timing so that they're in postwar Europe.

[02:05:28] Yeah, we don't know. We don't understand really, truly as an as an American what it's like to deal with with that kind of constant day to day like an occupation. I've never I've never lived under that situation. And so we it's you sort of look at well, OK, but what were the reasons?

[02:05:52] And of course, as again, somebody who's studied history and I know about that happening, I understand why people made those choices. And often it was women and often it was women who were in desperate they were going to starve and their choices to fraternize with the with the enemy doesn't mean and she says it. I wasn't welcoming Hitler to stay in France. I just was I wanted to feel alive.

[02:06:17] Yeah. Lonely boy wanted to. What did you say? Like cuddle my tits or something? I mean, it's very pragmatic, but I can understand that because also if you think about that war, World War Two and Claude and Madeleine, who would have been born in between the two great wars in Europe and she would have known certainly from family how how deprived and how awful it was during the first war only to go into the second massive war and have this occupation in the middle of the war.

[02:06:47] And so I think that's a feeling that we can all understand. Her neighbors didn't, though. All her neighbors saw was that she was a woman who was in a war zone. And so I think that's a feeling that we can all understand.

[02:07:03] Yeah. Yeah. And despite that, she was the most level headed of them all. And she was the one who actually had like the most beautiful turning which shows it doesn't have to be this violent, aggressive, and aggressive.

[02:07:22] Absolutely. It was an act of love. It really was. It was, you know, as far as you can consent to being turned. She did. Right. Consented to the turning and she wanted to be with Claudia. That that I mean, it's a very, very personal thing.

[02:07:40] But they she they fell in they fell in love and she consented to it. And that's the first turning that we saw that was fully consensual. We get Louis and Lestat, but Louis is definitely not in his right mind when Lestat says, well, I'm not going to be with you.

[02:07:59] So, you know, it was a consent. Yeah. Questionable there. Yeah. All right. So that brings us to the finale reveals. I'm just going to rattle them off real quick and then we can discuss them a little more. But so we get we get the an ex-girlfriend, a new boyfriend, a new boyfriend, a new girlfriend.

[02:08:17] I think we need more information about that. But that was a fun one where people were like piecing together stuff in newspaper articles and like little casual mentions about, you know, the vampires hanging off the Eiffel Tower chanting. And I don't know, it's still hazy. We need more on that next season.

[02:08:35] And of course, we get the reminder that we haven't actually even seen the real estate until we have this meeting in New Orleans where I love. I think maybe you shared there. Somebody called it his emotional support plank.

[02:08:51] It's a wooden piano that is he's carved the keys on the piano and he's stained the black keys with his own blood. He's so extra. What a character. I guess that's all you need to know.

[02:09:09] Yeah. And he holds it like it's like a whoopee, you know, like his stuffed animal. But it's his emotional support plank.

[02:09:15] Like he's like using it as a shield because Louis has just come back to see him for the first time in like 77 years. And they have this talk where he's like, did you hurt yourself? And she looked at me like a child looks at her father like, oh, I'm so sorry.

[02:09:29] I know. And you're apparently busy with your new boy toy and wooden plank. And your plank, just the preparation for the tour that you're about to embark on. The world tour.

[02:10:10] Which is, you know, I think a little bit of an Easter egg, a wink towards the vampire Lestat when he becomes a rock star. But I think.

[02:10:17] Yeah, I think that scene was gorgeous. I think Sam's acting, Jacob's acting both of them at their top form. When Lestat says that about did you hurt yourself? Yeah.

[02:10:32] It just it broke me. I mean, I'm pretty stoic and I just sat there and was like tears running down my face. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[02:10:40] I think that you're right. They don't get back together. There's some debate about whether or not they're back together, but I don't think that they do. I think this is Louis's turn to now become Louis and understand really who Louis is.

[02:10:54] I've said through the first two seasons, he just really doesn't know who Louis is. And here he's going to have the opportunity to figure it out. Well, he just yeah, he just found out that his relationship with the last 77 years was based on a lie.

[02:11:07] You know, that Armand was actually directing the whole thing and didn't save him. Lestat did. So and now he's dedicated his former apartment with Armand to like a memory museum of Claudia and all that horrible things.

[02:11:21] And yeah, all these vampires want to come after him because of this book, the interview that Daniel released. And he's basically like, listen, my windows are open. The security is not that great. Come at me. See what happens.

[02:11:34] I own the night, he says. And it's kind of a mirror. The first shot of Louis in this in the first season and then the second shot.

[02:11:43] And if you put them side by side, you can see that Louis at the end of the second season is a much stronger, more confident Louis. But also, come on, like Daniel saying to him, get out of Dubai, man.

[02:11:54] And Louis is like, no, this is it. I'm stay here. And this is this is where I am. And and I think that that says like Louis starting to bring all of the pieces of Louis together.

[02:12:05] And that can mean that he is that tough guy that worked on Liberty Street. But it also can mean that he is, you know, a grieving father and a somebody who's who's suffered trauma with past relationships and has like all of that is coming together.

[02:12:24] And I that's exciting. And I can't wait. And I hope that we're going to get to see more of Louis growth as a character in future seasons. Yeah. All I have to say to Louis is meow with the cat. Oh, that was such a funny scene.

[02:12:43] I think we should keep in mind he channels like basically all the dead bodies around him. And I feel like we're going to we saw the dream start. I think we're going to see some more projections. A hundred percent.

[02:12:53] Yes. And we get Daniel the vampire. So, I mean, we'll get into the book spoilers in just a minute.

[02:12:58] But, you know, we didn't know how things were going to end for Daniel because his story has been changed considerably from the book, basically adding, you know, 50 more years of human life.

[02:13:09] I knew it as soon as he was on stage and he's wearing those sunglasses. I was like, oh, no, they've already turned him. Yeah. I saw his nails. I was watching his nails and I'm like, oh, he's a vampire.

[02:13:20] Yeah. I you know, that's very Devil's Minion coded, except that when Daniel is turned in the books, it is in Queen of the Damned. There's a chapter chapter Devil's Minion when he's turned he's turned in out of love.

[02:13:38] Like there's he's he's turned to be kept because he's he's a drug addict and wants him to stay alive. And so Armand turns him. It's a big deal because Armand has never made a vampire and now he makes Daniel. Right. Which they pointed out. Yeah.

[02:13:52] Yeah. Same in this show. He hasn't done it before. But he says that Louis says, I'm sorry you were turned out of spite. Yeah. And that so that's I wonder if that's I wonder if that is true, though.

[02:14:06] I don't know, because he also said like he was getting him in a car to the airport and then suddenly it's like, oh, I left you alone with Armand and he turned you out of spite.

[02:14:13] Like, hmm. How did the turn really go down? How much time has passed? Yeah. How did how did it happen? I think that, you know, there's room there for us to be able to really speculate for however long it's going to take for season three.

[02:14:28] And they're going to be a lot. There will be a lot of discourse about that on Twitter. I promise you. But yeah, I love that he's a vampire. And for Eric, as an actor, it was always kind of a goal for him.

[02:14:40] He said, I've never been like right before he had the offer for this part. He was ruminating on his past and characters he's played and he thought to himself, I've never been a vampire. I might like to do that. And then he got the offer.

[02:14:54] OK, yeah. OK, so we're going to go into some book spoilers right now. So just if you don't want to hear any spoilers about future elements from the book that may or may not show up in the show, then thank you very much for listening.

[02:15:12] And I look forward to seeing you back for everything else going on in the hot, lower summer in the lower hounds.

[02:15:19] If you are if you want to hear our thoughts on like what might happen in the seasons to come based on what we know, then here we go.

[02:15:26] So here's the description that AMC released with the season three announcement, they said in season three, resentful of the perfunctory portrayal in the trashy bestseller interview with the vampire.

[02:15:39] The vampire Lestat sets his story straight in a way only the vampire Lestat can by starting a band and going on tour. Gabrielle, Nicholas, Magnus, Marius, those who must be kept.

[02:15:50] They join Louis, Armand, Malloy, Sam, Raglan, Farid and others we can't tell you about yet in a sexy pilgrimage across space, time and trauma. No auto tuning, no trigger warnings, all fields amplified.

[02:16:05] So do you think that they might combine vampire Lestat and Queen of the Damned, the second and the third Queen of the Damned, the second and the third books for this next season? Yeah, I mean, because they kind of like cover the same time period.

[02:16:19] Yeah, I think the short answer to that is yes. I think that you'll get a mashup of that and I think that you will continue to get other things integrated to potentially Tale of the Body Thief.

[02:16:35] Because you got Raglan, James, I think potentially you'll get, what's it, Merrick. Maybe there's some Merrick-y timelines here that I feel could kind of cross over easily. But yeah, I definitely think for sure they're going to do a smash up.

[02:16:53] Yeah. Yeah. So I hope that we again that we because Claudia comes back as a ghost in the books. That's something I was avoiding saying before. But so do you think like that's kind of later though, right? I don't know.

[02:17:09] Yeah, well, that's that that's kind of the that's why I'm sort of thinking about well and I mean she does in Tale of the Body Thief. You get her haunting Lestat in Tale of the Body Thief.

[02:17:20] And I often wondered if when the writers started thinking about how they were going to keep Sam, integrate Sam into the second half of Interview with the Vampire, keep Lestat.

[02:17:33] I think that they it always struck me that it was very much like Claudia in the Tale of the Body Thief and talking to Lestat.

[02:17:42] And so I think that we are. Yeah, that's why I think it's like Lestat or Tale of the Body Thief and Merrick timelines are going to get conflated. And I love it. Bring her back. Yeah. Bring her back because we still have to grapple with that.

[02:17:57] Yeah. And she promised she was coming back for revenge. So I want her to see that through. I also wouldn't mind if like Lestat were haunted by the real or imagined ghost of Madeline because she was pretty cool. They could have some Madeline guilt. Yeah.

[02:18:13] I think, yeah, I could see them doing because like the Vampire Lestat is kind of more past focused and then like they would set I guess they would set Queen of the Damned more in the present.

[02:18:22] And then, yeah, that would have then still that structure of like the past or the present and how they interact. Yeah, I think I think that the Queen of the Damned is going to be conflated into this great conversion.

[02:18:38] I think that that's something that's gonna be a plot point. And that's where Akasha and Enkel will come in if they're going to have Enkel. But right. Yeah, I think that I think that we'll get that as the modern day thing.

[02:18:52] And I think you're right. We're going to see history now. Gabrielle could come into the modern day as well, which I think would be great to have Lestat have his mommy show up in the modern day.

[02:19:03] I love Gabrielle. She's one of my favorite characters from the book. So I'm very excited about this. Yeah. A lot of a lot of people love Gabrielle. And I but I do love the history. The Wolf Killer.

[02:19:16] The Nicki Stott. The Lesmond, I think, is going to be interesting because we've got Arman's fan fiction version of what happened with him and Lestat. With Lestat with that beautiful blowout again and just being this aloof, just really amazing looking guy.

[02:19:38] But then, you know, see how what Lestat says about it, because Lestat has a very different view of what Armand is and how he is.

[02:19:47] And look at what he says at the end of season two when he says, I gave you to Armand. To me, I know a lot of people there's a there are loads of ways to take that.

[02:19:55] But I kind of thought like, yeah, you know, I gave you to Armand. Like that wasn't a gift. Right. Like that's not the gift. You had to be with Armand for 77 years. I can't imagine how to realize some things. Yeah.

[02:20:08] Yeah. Well, oh, yeah. Yeah. And of course, so they've promised Magnus, which is Lestat's creator. There's another big vampire we don't really have time to get into called Marius.

[02:20:20] So he's more than 2000 years old. So they've named dropped him. They named dropped Farid, who I'll be honest, I forgot about.

[02:20:27] But he is a doctor character who I won't. Yeah, stuff happens to. But he showed up in season one when Louis brought in a doctor at one point. Totally forgot about that. I'll be honest. Yep. And yeah.

[02:20:40] So we've had now in season one, there was a those who must be kept to name drop by Lestat. And then Lestat said Akasha this time.

[02:20:48] And then I definitely noticed that right after that whole thing, when Louis and Armand ran away together, where did they go first? But Egypt. So I feel like that's something that might get filled in more. We're promised like a glam rocker Lestat, which, yeah, it better be.

[02:21:07] Yeah. A combination between Hedwig and the Angry Inch and Rocky Horror. Yeah. Okay. I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it. Yeah. Leather him up. Exactly. So one thing I actually forgot that this wasn't in the first book until I went back and looked it up.

[02:21:27] But so Armand tells a version of the story of Claudia's death at one point that involves some horrific body experimentation. So do you think they're going to go there in this show?

[02:21:37] Oh, I don't. I don't think so. I had always kind of hoped that we would get that just because I'm very sick. I'm an unwell person, but I mean, I like my gothic horror. Right. So yeah, it's kind of a Frank and Claudia moment. I don't think so.

[02:21:58] I think that what we see is what we get. I think that that's going to be the trial is going to be the trial and what happened there is what happened.

[02:22:07] I would be surprised if they would do that, but I've been wrong. So every time I make a guess, assume the opposite. Because everything, almost everything I've guessed at, I haven't gotten it right.

[02:22:20] Well, I mean, I think you have gotten a lot right to someone who listens to your predictions and they tend to inform. Sometimes I'm not completely sure. Like, did I come up with that or am I echoing you guys?

[02:22:33] But yeah, I do expect more Armand reveals. Maybe like we'll find out some more things about his life with Louis. I'm glad we're getting more Louis than in the books. That's definitely needed. For sure.

[02:22:46] About the Devil's Minion thing, the creator did say, point out we're still several books away, which makes me wonder. But then again, we got like this tea. I think he's just messing with us with that statement.

[02:22:58] Yeah. Well, I know that they probably are aware that the fandom is rabid for Devil's Minion and Devil's Minion is the relationship between Daniel and Armand.

[02:23:11] And I think the big question around Devil's Minion is, is it going to be happening now in present day or did some of it already happen in the past?

[02:23:22] Because there's some speculation that young Daniel and Armand had a relationship already in the past and then he wiped his mind. So there's some fan theories out there that that's what happened.

[02:23:36] I tend to think that didn't happen. I think that maybe Louis and Armand kept tabs on Daniel. I think obviously they did. We've had some clues that they did. But I think that they did keep tabs on Daniel.

[02:23:49] And then I think the Devil's Minion is going to happen. I think it's going to happen in the present day. Will it look exactly like it did in the book? I don't know. No, of course not.

[02:23:59] But I think it will be. I think now Daniel is going to go looking for Armand. I think, you know, when he said to Louis at the end. Or is he already with him?

[02:24:08] Well, maybe. But well, because he says at the end, have you heard from my maker? Yeah, yeah. I mean, he could be lying. But I think that Daniel is going to go want to get to the bottom of Armand's story.

[02:24:21] Yeah, he didn't. It's not a lie. He didn't say because I don't know where he is. He just said, have you heard from him? Right. Well, that's true. That's true. Lie of omission, maybe.

[02:24:32] I don't know. But that's maybe just me wanting to read into it because I want to know, like, how did this turn happen in the first place? But yeah, we're definitely going to find out. And I wonder, yeah, how soon we're going to get that body swapping story.

[02:24:44] I want Justin Kirk in both the Talamaska show and showing up periodically in this show. Yeah, I really want to see a Justin Kirk and Lestat. I mean, Justin Kirk and Sam Reed. I conflate the characters.

[02:24:57] I've got to be honest with you. The actor and the character, I conflate. So I go back and forth between real names and their character names. But I'd love to see Raglin and Lestat interact because I think the Justin Kirk and Sam Reed acting together would be amazing.

[02:25:10] And I want them to play each other too. Yeah, that would be well. And we've already seen Lestat. We've already seen Sam do that with Jacob because when he was playing Dreamstot, he's riffing on who Jacob and Jacob's, Louis's mannerisms.

[02:25:25] Right. So what would you say you're looking forward to most in the season three or beyond? Oh, I think I am looking forward to Rockstar Lestat. I'm pretty simple.

[02:25:36] I'm looking forward to that. I am looking forward to Devil's Minion. I really fell in love with Daniel, Daniel's character in this, especially with, you know, Eric had so much to do with that.

[02:25:47] And I'm really looking to see what his character arc is going to be through the next. Are they going to sort of do a mashup between Daniel and David so that Daniel is now the chronicler?

[02:26:00] Right. The guy who's going around sort of writing down all of their stories. It seems to be that they're setting him up to do that. So I'd love to I'd love to see that.

[02:26:07] And I'd love to see him get to the bottom of what's going on with the great conversion, because, again, even though now he's a vampire, he's still the one that is serving as us, as the audience.

[02:26:19] And he's the one that's going to be able to ask questions. He's a new vampire. He's going to have questions about everything. I'm really looking forward to Daniel's arc.

[02:26:28] Yeah. No, me too. I guess I am like I said, I'm really looking forward to Gabrielle and I'm really looking forward to I'm excited about Akasha. I don't know. I just I can't wait to see who they get to play her.

[02:26:40] I love like the whole vampire origin story. I'm very excited for that. OK, before before I let you go, I want to play a couple rounds of a game that I'm calling Bite Bone Blaze.

[02:26:54] So I'm going to give you three characters and then you have to say which one you would want to sire you so they bite you and then leave you basically, which one you would want to have one wild night of passion with and which one you would put outside to go a place.

[02:27:12] OK, so they they bite me. But then leave you. They bite you and leave you. And then leave me. OK. And the first one is Louis Lestat and Armand is the first.

[02:27:21] Oh gosh. OK, well, I guess. Well, OK, I want Lestat to bite me because then I'm getting some powerful blood. So I'm going to be a pretty powerful vampire.

[02:27:33] Oh God, I can't blaze Armand. I have to blaze Louis. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Louis. Oh, Louis, I love him so much. I'm going to have to. But yeah, definitely the night of passion with Armand. That's got to be it. OK, OK. What about you?

[02:27:48] So let's see, I guess I would I would have Armand bite me for, you know, because he's got some good blood to just because I need that night of. Oh no, I'm having the night of passion with Lestat and I'm also blazing Louis. I'm sorry.

[02:28:02] For Louis, Louis gets blazed. Aye, aye, aye. That's tough. That's tough. I know. What are you going to do? All right. All right. So Claudia, Madeline and Vampire Sam. Who would I have bite me? Claudia, I'm blazing Vampire Sam and then boning Madeline.

[02:28:22] 100 percent. Yeah. Oh yeah. Roxanne, call me. I yeah, I might be the same. I don't know. Maybe I would want Vampire Sam to bite me because he's older, you know, so. But then who might know? No, he's got a blaze. Sorry. Bye, Sam.

[02:28:45] Daft Punk is playing in the furnace anyway. What about between the love triangle Santiago, Egli and Estelle? Oh, Egli is going to be the bite Santiago bone and blaze Estelle. I didn't like Estelle.

[02:29:06] No, I didn't like Estelle either. I'm also going to blaze her. I mean, yeah, Santiago bite me because he's he's got more power, obviously. And you want the cloud gift. Yeah, and Egli.

[02:29:19] She looks I mean, she looks like she was given Santiago a good time. So, yeah. All right. And for the last one, since we're talking about mixed characters, not all vampire, we're going to do the standard fuck, marry, kill.

[02:29:33] So, OK, young Eric, older Eric, Vampire Eric. Oh, OK. Sorry, I shouldn't say Eric Daniel. There's another actor actually who plays two of those young Daniel, older Daniel, Vampire Daniel. OK, so Vampire Daniel, I'm gonna.

[02:29:55] I'm going to marry him, but this is only after I've been bitten by Lestat so that I've gotten that powerful blood and I am also a vampire.

[02:30:03] So I'm marrying Vampire Eric. I am. I guess I'll fuck young Eric and then kill older Eric, but that's OK because already Vampire Eric exists. Or not Vampire Daniel. God, I keep saying Eric. What about you? OK, what about you?

[02:30:20] All right. I think I'm going to marry young Daniel because he's still got like the idealism. Maybe, you know, he's still got more hope for the future. I think Vampire Daniel after I've been bitten by Lestat or who did I say was biting me? Armand.

[02:30:37] Yeah, Vampire Daniel can be my fun night. And yeah, I'm sorry, older Daniel. You're just like you're the in-between phase. That's right. That's right. Exactly. Oh man, that's a fun game. I love it.

[02:30:53] All right. Any any more thoughts you wanted to throw out about the show before I let you go? I guess I would just say if you are not watching Interview with a Vampire, give it a try.

[02:31:05] Even if you have to wait until it comes out on Netflix, you can get it on AMC plus now. You can binge everything. It is such great writing. It is such great storytelling. It is if you like gothic horror, it's going to check those boxes for you.

[02:31:24] Give it a try. If you're not watching it, really missing out. You really are. Yeah, it is. It is some of the best and most creative television I've ever seen. So it's every any year that there's a season. It's my number one show of that year.

[02:31:38] So 2022, it beat out Severance and Andor, both shows that I absolutely think the world of. But still, this was number one this year. Did it even beat out Shogun? This is beating out Shogun. Shogun's my number two for this year so far.

[02:31:50] Really? Because I know that you were really into Shogun. I started to watch Shogun and I had to I couldn't I couldn't. The first scene or first episode with the death in the tub.

[02:32:02] Oh, that's actually OK, but that's not that's probably the most horrific physical thing that happens. Like people die and stuff, but that's somebody. Yeah. Somebody gets boiled alive in the first episode of Shogun. You should know that if you're thinking about watching it and having to.

[02:32:17] It's just brutal. And I can't stand torturous deaths. No, that's not they don't normally there's not much torture, but there are like horrible things that happen. But it's mostly it's not really that like gory per se.

[02:32:31] They cut a lot away from the violence, but then every once in a while somebody unexpectedly blows up. It's a good I mean, it was beautifully done that first first writing. So maybe I'll maybe I'll go back and give it another shot because I really do.

[02:32:46] I love the story. I mean, I love the characters, the writing. Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of book readers think the show elevated the characters.

[02:32:56] So yeah. Yeah. So you again are one of the hosts of Vampire Insider and listeners can find a link to your podcast in the show notes. Now, I know I listened to part one of your finale breakdown like yesterday.

[02:33:12] And so I guess part two is coming out. And also you said something about a season wrap up as well. Yep. We're going to do a part two. That is I'm just putting the finishing touches on editing that.

[02:33:22] And then we are going to do a season wrap up. That'll be coming soon. Next Friday. Yeah. And then we have with them. We're going to start going back and doing some deep thematic dives. So we're going to go back right back to episode one of season two.

[02:33:39] And we will start doing thematic dives for each episode and looking at very specific things instead of doing sort of an overarching thing.

[02:33:47] Now we get really granular. And the offseason allows us a chance to do that because, you know, you can really dive in and geek out on all of the details. And you also said you were going to do some Vampire Diaries content and other vampire content.

[02:34:04] We're going to do we have a guest that we're going to guest host. He was our guest host for season for episode two this season. And he's going to come in and serve as a third chair for us. And he is a big Vampire Diaries fan.

[02:34:19] Joanne is a huge Vampire Diaries fan. She's met the cast and all of that. I am new to it. I'd never watched Vampire Diaries, so I have been. It's a fun show.

[02:34:29] It is fun. Right. And I mean, who doesn't like Damon Salvatore? He's absolutely stunning to look at. So that's that's fantastic.

[02:34:38] But yeah, so that and then the other thing that I want to get into, depending on how much time we have before we get more content from AMC, I do want to start looking at A Discovery of Witches, which I think is such a great show.

[02:34:52] And I do want to have some conversations about A Discovery of Witches. So because that's just such an interesting way to approach vampire and witch and in that case, demon lore. And I think it's a really great well done, well made show. I love the demon lore especially.

[02:35:07] Yeah, for sure. For sure. Identify with the demons. Yeah. Exactly. I always did too. I'm a kind of a cross between the witch and a demon in my mind. Fair. So yeah, so that's that's what's coming. And we welcome anybody to come and listen to us.

[02:35:25] And we're active on Twitter as well. I'm at Christina Jen X on Twitter. So please come and follow me there. All right. I'll put that link in the show notes as well, as well as the link to the Twitter for Vampire Diaries for Vampire Insider.

[02:35:39] Thanks. All right. Well, thank you so much. I know you have a lovely day ahead. Thank you for giving me so much of your time to talk through this.

[02:35:46] Your insights have been just very helpful for me processing the season and hopefully and listeners at home and processing or getting excited to watch themselves. Oh, awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm a huge fan of you too.

[02:36:01] You keep me you keep me abreast of things. And like I said, I'm going to I'm going to dive into the acolyte now because I you've been talking about it on Twitter. I interact with you a lot on Twitter and I can't wait to check it out.

[02:36:13] I have two words. Sexy. Wow. OK. OK. All right. Thank you. So thank you again to Christina and thank you also to everyone else who's listening right now.

[02:36:34] Of course, there's a lot more to listen to in the Lore Hounds this week, including, of course, ongoing House of the Dragon coverage with hot takes for subscribers and show guide. And it seems like the guys are up to three episodes a week.

[02:36:49] So full in-depth hot tea coverage. And of course, John and I are doing the acolyte, which I am all the way in on having a great time.

[02:36:56] You heard us just talk about it now. And also, if you are a Star Wars fan or if you're just curious, then do check back earlier in the episode list for the Star Wars canon timeline podcast.

[02:37:08] And you'll find near the beginning of the list, a new episode that I backdated. That's all about ancient myths in the Star Wars universe. And of course, there is also this week two episodes for Patreon and Supercast subscribers.

[02:37:23] Our second breakfast episode and Elevenzee's talking about the fifth element and radioactive ramblings is busy with the boys.

[02:37:32] Rings and Rituals has wrapped up their first season recap of Rings of Power. And now there's going to be an interview with John coming out talking about the music in the Rings of Power.

[02:37:43] And properly, our movie review has just wrapped up its season and Wolveshift Dust just wrapped up Beacon 23. Watch out for Dune coverage coming after the acolyte. And of course, this is just the midpoint of Hot Lore Summer.

[02:37:58] And of course, none of this would be possible without our first our Discord server boosters. Thank you, Narls, Aaron K., Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Dove71, CaptainJinji56 and Athena Adjalea.

[02:38:14] And thank you especially to our Lore Masters, Samartian, Michael G., Michelle E., David W., Brian P., S.C., Peter O.H., Bettina W., Adam S., Nancy M., Dove71, Brian8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Gareth C., Eric F., Matthew M., Sarah M., DJ Miwa, Andrew B., Kuang Yu, JediJediBob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T., SubZero, and the rest of the crew.

[02:38:44] And thank you to our viewers, Samartian, Brian P., SubZero, Aaron K., Dally V., Mothership61, Narls, Kathy W., Stuart B., and always last, Adrian. And see guys, I did it with the music. Okay, thank you all. See you this week for the acolyte.

[02:39:02] The Lore Hounds podcast is produced and published by the Lore Hounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. And you can add free access to all Lore Hounds podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds.

[02:39:16] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side, green or black. John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn.

[02:39:41] I am black for life. So we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to like pick sides and fight and stuff. Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing.

[02:39:54] We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for the Lore Hounds. And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons.

[02:40:07] And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene-by-scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lore Hounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes.

[02:40:25] The Lore Hounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a heartened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin.

[02:40:34] Dragon seeds may experience burning.