The Rings of Power - S02E01 - Elven Kings Under the Sky

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the Rings of Power podcast. We're the Lorehounds, your guides to the wonderful world of Middle Earth. I'm David. I'm John. And I'm Marilyn. This is our coverage for Prime Video's original series, The Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power, Season 2, Episode 1.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to start off with our coverage plans for the season, our hot takes for the episode, and then we'll get into a scene-by-scene breakdown.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to contact us, send emails to lotr at TheLorehounds.com. If you want to join our Discord or support the community by subscribing on either Supercast or Patreon, you can find links to all of those in the link tree in the show notes below.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're not into recurring subscriptions, you can also find a link to our Season Pass where you can pay a flat $10 fee to access the one guide to rule them all, our visual guide for the season, as well as the ad-free episodes and the weekly bonus lorecast.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll talk all about that in just a minute. My friends, welcome back. We're here. We've arrived at Season 2 of Rings of Power.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We did nothing. We just had to sit and wait patiently for the season to come. Really exciting. We've got our little fellowship together. And before we get into the episode, we're going to talk about how we're going to approach the season so that you guys can have a little bit of expectation.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're a returning listener, welcome back. It's good to have you here. To all of our regular subscribers, of course we're happy to have you here.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're new, if you've just stumbled across us, welcome. We're glad to have you. John and I got our original start as podcasters covering Rings of Power Season 1.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had asked a question about Barovians. And then Marilyn out of the blue emails us, and now she's become one of our family of co-hosts and active sub... What do we want to say?

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Are minors of lore, I guess in some way? And sorry?

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_04]: It's an honor and a privilege.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely. And if you're new here, we can talk about Lorehounds a little bit later. But I think we're going to dive right into talking about how we're going to cover this season.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So, fortunately, Amazon, fortunately and graciously, Amazon has provided us with screeners.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So we are able to be a little bit ahead of the curve, which just really helps with production.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the tricky things about screeners is that sometimes their subtitles aren't available or the titles of the episode or the casting, the cast information is not available.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But we get to watch the episodes. So that's really great.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, John, how are we going to cover the episodes once we get past this first three-episode drop?

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you've been with us for a while, you know, we usually do a scene by scene breakdown on the shows like this.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to do that every episode and you can follow along with that in the show guide if you're a Season Pass member or a standard Patreon Supercast subscriber.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That will be in the one guide to rule them all.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Then later in the week, we are going to be doing a weekly lore cast where we'll pick a topic or maybe a couple topics that really were highlighted in the episode.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And Marilyn and I will do some research and David's going to be our audience eye so that we can adequately explain it without making people say something.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. If you could explain it to me, right?

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we've already got a topic for our first lore cast which is going to be sort of like the table of organization and equipment or an org chart for the supernatural beings of Tolkien's world.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You call it a power. What did you call it, John?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I call it power levels.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Power levels, yeah.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. We start with the creator god Eruluvatar and we end with lowly men.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And you even put together a cool little flow chart of that.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I did.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's in the one guide.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: With colors.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It has colors, yeah.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: For feedback, like we mentioned, LOTR at the Lorehounds.com or on the Discord.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We have our special channel set up for this.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also send us voice mails.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You could just use the voice memo app on your phone and send us emails or send those to that email address.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Or you can go to our website and use the built-in system there.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to see how the volume of email comes in and if it's a lot, then we may split off and do a separate pod just to cover all of that kind of stuff.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We may, depending on how it goes, if it's not so much, we may bank it up and save it for a few episodes and then do it all or we'll just tack it onto individual episodes.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to play it and see because we're not really sure how it's going to go this year.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking what we should also do is we should talk a little bit about our personal lore histories with Tolkien.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, before we do that, I just want to make clear, the Lorecast is a subscriber exclusive and I don't think I said that.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So you will get the full recaps and everything on the public feed.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll get any feedback that we get in when we respond to you on the public feed.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: The Lorecast are going to be subscriber exclusive.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Now carry on, David.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it goes to mention just to say the season pass is designed specifically for people who just come through every once in a while and you're here and you want to get all the goodies.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really great way.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we've been doing show guides now for a few shows, especially House of the Dragon.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a really super successful thing.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll put up on our website a little tour of the show guide.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're curious about it, you can learn.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Come for the season pass. Stay for the variety.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. Absolutely.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we have got a good spectrum of experience for approaching the Tolkien world and I thought it might be good for listeners to sort of get a sense of that.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I am sort of on one end of a spectrum where I'm a strong fan.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I've read the books when I was younger, I've seen the movies.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a real good sense.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: John and I, one of our first podcasts was all about the second age.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So I have a pretty reasonable casual fan, general fan experience with Tolkien and understanding of the world.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: John, what's your, how would you describe your level and experience?

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you wrote it well here in the outline.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm pretty much a super fan.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not an academic.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I've not taught classes like some people on the podcast and I have not written papers on this stuff or anything,

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but I have reread the Silmarillion many times.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I've read pieces of history of Middle Earth, where I live in.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually in the middle of reading the fall of Numenor, a compilation of second age writings just to refresh myself for some of these things.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I host a weekly or monthly, rather Silmarillion podcast.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm planning further Tolkien stuff.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I like to think I know quite a lot of lore, but I'm always learning.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Not a bona fide expert, but just below that.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And Marilyn, why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience with Tolkien and some of the things that you're involved with in the wider Tolkien community?

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Tolkien has been a part of my life for 60 years.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So that says a lot right there.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: There you go.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: How I can have, you know, start to go below surface and get into deeper themes and make connections.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't always remember things, but I always know where to look them up.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the research library side of things.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I taught a course on Tolkien sources for 35 years off and on at Colby College.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And after retiring, I did so in June of 2019 and then the next thing you know, COVID hits.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that's when I discovered podcasts.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And I worked for a couple years as a research advisor for the Prancing Pony podcast and then kind of expanded my listening to podcasts and found you guys.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that's how I got here with the question about Barovians.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, ask a research library and a Tolkien scholar what Barovian means.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you really think she's going to sit still and not do anything?

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely not.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So I've been privileged to have papers accepted at Oxen Moot and other Tolkien conferences.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I've had those published.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I do reviews for the journal Tolkien Research.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So I, you know, dabble a little bit in the academic publishing side of things.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But mostly I'm really settling into podcasting and I had a wonderful time.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to say you say this is a season.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Perfect time to pitch your podcast.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Dr. Sarah Brown of Signum University and myself.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, Sarah is going to be the keynote speaker at Oxen Moot this year, which starts this week and starts on Friday as of this recording.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So she and I do a podcast called Rings and Rituals where we look at the ritual elements that Pena Micae showed us in the first season of Rings of Power.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And that gives us a sense of what sort of cultures they were wanting us to perceive in the different communities that both the ones they created, but also the ones that we're familiar with.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was a lot of fun.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_04]: We got a lot of good response to it.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I think my favorite overall response from several folks was, you know, I didn't like the series that much, but listening to your podcast, I decided to give it another try.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And on a rewatch, I realized that there was some stuff there that I get into.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So that I wasn't intending that when I started out.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that it happened was just really very gratifying.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm already having fun looking at rituals just in these first three episodes.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at a scepter and I'm like, oh, Maryland's going to like that one.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But we're not going to get into that until, you know, probably not until a year after this is done because Sara is also podcasting with Rings of Power wrap up.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Then, you know, we're both very, very busy but very engaged with Rings of Power.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I think we've got a good diversity here of approaches to the Tolkien material and to the television show.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think with that, maybe we'll jump into our hot takes for episode one.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: John, do you want to kick us off?

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think of this episode?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm honestly thrilled with these first three episodes.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I am so into it in a way that I don't think season one, I think it's already a higher level than season one in terms of the writing.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I am really enjoying the way that they're approaching the Aragion plot especially because the Kellibren borough of season one.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Seem so dotty.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He was just kind of, oh, I'm kind of aloof and I'm kind of in and out of things.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: This one seems brilliant and like the grandson of Fain or, you know, right?

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like this, this I need to create something.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really loving watching, you know, I don't want to talk about the other two episodes just yet.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really enjoying watching different characters be manipulated by Sauron.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's really interesting to see the way that Sauron has always been told to us as this big deceiver.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're finally getting to see that in action.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I wanted from this series.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I am totally fine with the recast of Adar.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this new actor, I can't recall the name at the very moment, but if only I had a show guide.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing a really great job.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see actually I have it in here.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Sam Hazeldine, if I'm ever pronouncing that correctly.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing a really great job of capturing Adar.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed the way that they opened up.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So season one right opens up with Galadriel our hero and season two opens up with Sauron the villain.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And coming to a similar place that we started season one in.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's super cool and that's such a great way to frame how this season is going to be very Sauron centric.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Very much how the peoples of Middle Earth are corrupted.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I also, I'm feeling a lot better about certain things like the way that they're approaching Mithril.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm starting to feel better about and the way that they're approaching.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll save my dwarven stuff for next episode.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But the way that they're approaching Lyndon, I'm really liking Gilgallad.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad, he seems a lot more like a king this season than he did last season.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So honestly overall, I think it's just a complete step up.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Nice. That's good.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We should point out really quick too.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to always be very careful about knowing what we know from watching ahead without spoiling what we've you know are.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So we have access to the first three and we will absolutely be keeping episodes two and three out of our conversation of one.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And really just focusing in.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I might have alluded to something, but I don't think I expressly say something.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: This is only an issue for the first three episodes because they're dropping at the same time and we watched all three.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But in future episodes, we'll have only watched four before covering four.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Amazon pity the poor podcasters please.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Three full episodes.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I know even with the advanced copies that we get it still, it's a mighty left.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Whoever thought that was a good idea.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess all those people for everything now.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: All those people who can, you know, afford to binge and re-bing and whatnot.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But some of us have other things that we have to do in our lives.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank goodness for screeners.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I please don't hear me criticizing that in any way, shape or form.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It literally is a lifesaver.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn, what did you think of episode one?

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really excited.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I am very excited.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not quite as forgiving about my thrill as John, but I will say that I do like the way they are treating it.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I think maybe my impression is that they really took an awful lot of listener feedback to heart.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Listener and viewer feedback to heart.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there was plenty of a Tolkien scholar who wrote, who sat down and wrote rather lengthy emails.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And whether those actually made it onto the desks of Peynir Mckay, I don't know,

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: but I could imagine the volume of scholarly research that was redirected at them was no small amount.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the most watched show that year, right?

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to always get that much feedback.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Going to Awaken the Balrog.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: No, but I also think they were sending it directly to Amazon too if they were sensible.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And that probably had an effect too.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_04]: But they're bringing in more characters, some much loved characters from the lore.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're using them well.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I like the creativity for the characters and the cultures that they themselves invented.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I like how they're expanding on that.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a central conflict which is really quite fascinating.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And there seems to be an overall theme of who do you trust?

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And why?

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And what does that mean for the choices that you're going to make going forward?

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The music is even better than it was before.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Who knew it was possible, but it is.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: What's bear?

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's bear.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean just spectacular.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Fantastic.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And the visuals of course also quite excellent.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're setting up a number of really interesting pathways.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_04]: There's, as usual there's a couple things I say, really?

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to have that one do that?

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Why?

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's okay because they're telling the story.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They have their reasons and I can think about it.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And as a result maybe get a whole new perspective on that particular character or that situation.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Marilyn, I totally feel you on that.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that for me I'm going into season two saying this is its own thing and I will always have the written word of talk.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's its own thing.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And even if they're not following all of the very rich lore about a certain character,

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_04]: they're following enough of it in how they present the character or characterize it.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And I agree with you, John.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Gilgallad is so much better than he was the first season.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I finally think yes, the Harpers would sadly sing for the death of this man.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when he goes, I am considering it.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, there are some wonderful lines and he delivers them well.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And he even gets a chance to sing quite beautifully.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well let's talk about that later.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I have feelings about that and they're not all positive.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: David, you haven't given us your hot takes.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm going to sound maybe a slightly dissonant chord to songs of praise.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if it's...

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having trouble getting into it and I don't know if that was just because of

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: trying, going through the whole process of getting the advanced copies.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it is.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: If there's some of the plotting and some of the writing,

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm finding myself having to work to pay attention to a little bit.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It could be just vacation brain.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just coming out of a very busy summertime.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Our daughter's about to head back to school in a couple of days

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I'm actually finally able to bring my brain back around to other adult-related pursuits.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's me.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure the pacing feels very slow in this episode.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: There are some things that just seem to drag for me and again,

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: it could be just a me problem.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to cast big dispersions because I do feel that the show is

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: much more sure-footed this season.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They seem to be committing to some things and really pushing forward

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: on a number of the plot points.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The actors have obviously grown into the characters' roles,

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: which is very important.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That takes time.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it takes a couple of seasons for a character to really round out

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: an actor to round out their character.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels really good.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe part of it is I don't know if this was just our copies

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: or if it's going to be better when it hits the airwaves,

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: there are the cable waves or whatever, the internets.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It was really dark.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the episodes were so dark that I just felt like it was murky

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was having to swim through to see detail and stuff.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Visually, when there's great detail on the screen,

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it's beautiful, the CGI is great, the scenes are looking good.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: All of that seems to be working really well.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: There seems to be some, for me anyway, some lumpiness in the quality

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: of the writing or the quality of the plot points.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02]: There's the stuff with the stranger and Nuri.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: There are some things that are just like, I don't know.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Really?

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I like them a lot more this season actually.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm liking the stranger stuff more than the other.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You were very... not.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Last season so.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, last season we ended his run with going,

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I am good.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, all right, I don't know about that.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we'll see.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to...

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think part of it is just me getting into the groove of this thing.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get a chance to rewatch season one.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like I'm kind of a little bit of a claw.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like a bit of a clawed.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little bit up to...

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I might be a little bit obtuse for the first couple episodes

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: until I get into the groove of this.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Someone's typing our review right now saying,

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: watch season one before you talk about season one.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You just feel like...

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we're going to get there.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry, listen.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Or listen to rings and rituals.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We do synopses of all the episodes.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They got a lot of options, David.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Excellent way to recover your memories of season one.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Just because a child moves out from infancy

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: into young childdom doesn't mean that your time as a parent

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: gets any less...

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: ...doesn't diminish.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's constant the whole way through.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that said,

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: it was also really nice to see a lot of the scenes

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: when we did our trailer breakdown

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: were boom right here in the episodes.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they didn't play a lot.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean there's a lot more to come,

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: but it was nice to see a bunch of resolution to things.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: They're setting up and resolving, setting up and resolving.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So that, I think from a showrunner standpoint,

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that shows me that Peyton McKay

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: have been listening and learning

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and are getting their showrunner legs underneath them.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I think like 90% of the trailer stuff

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: was in this first three episodes.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It sure felt that way, didn't it?

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Every time something familiar popped up,

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I kind of went, oh yes, I remember this.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're not setting up a lot of crazy stuff

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that is going to take a long time to pay out

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of the little plot mechanics.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're delivering on those really quickly.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's all well and good.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So overall, I'm Luke Warm

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and looking forward to seeing this season heat up.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, Marilyn, you were going to say.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'll just say that one of the things

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_04]: that pleased me a lot was the number of times

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_04]: when something unfolded and I said,

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_04]: yes, that's what I said was going to happen.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You were winning internet points.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, only on my own.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: On my own stick.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I didn't put any bets down on the table.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But you know, it's always gratifying when you find out

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04]: that you've sussed out.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You called something correctly.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_04]: The hints.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, don't worry.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel extremely hype about this season now

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: after watching me.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll bring us back from Luke Warmland, David.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Very good.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You can keep it up.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we can move into our scene by scene now.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, John, you have taken notes

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: on all the episodes you've written a little scene synopsis,

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: given a little title and a scene synopsis.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You've written that into the show guide,

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the one guide to rule them all,

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: which is available for subscribers.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's going to be available.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: These outlines will be available

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: for people who do subscribe.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to use those as our episode breakdown.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think once an episode goes live,

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to add in visuals to the scenes.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this whole thing is private until the episodes go live.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Just can't get to the bargain bar go.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then so right now it's in a private version of the guide.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And we will be copied into the public guide

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: when the episodes go live.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you're going to put in some visuals and stuff like that.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So just nobody wants the images with my name plastered over them.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Of screener protections.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_04]: As one of our colleagues did, I am Galadriel.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Because their name is popping up right underneath her.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's good.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, why don't you start to lead us through, John?

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So we started off with what I call a crowning of sorts.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: At the dawn of the second age,

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron attempts to rally the orcs to him.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: He explains his wish to enslave the peoples of Middle Earth

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and create a new and perfect order.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The orcs begin to turn on him,

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: but at our calm stem,

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: at our fain's allegiance to Sauron

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and moves to crown him,

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: but instead kills him with the spiked end of the crown.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron's body emits a blast of energy and disappears,

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and Sauron reconstitutes using rats, bugs, and eventually men.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn, did this break the Pukulis scale for violence on screen?

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't watch that closely.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Were you peeking between your fingers?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_04]: No fingers over that.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I just knew that, you know,

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_04]: you hear lots of sounds of stabbing and squelching.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I was calling him.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You really upped the ring this season?

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think they...

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They did.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It shifted the baseline for a leading scale.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I was conjuring names like,

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, Sagi Sauron, Squelchy Sauron.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Squelchy Sauron is right.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is what happens as he reconstitutes, et cetera.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But there was a real strong Paradise Lost vibe here.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Which I found really interesting.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Go on.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Him being thrown into the depths of the Earth,

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_04]: the story of Paradise Lost

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_04]: is basically about the fallen angels and Satan leading the charge against

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and tempting Adam and Eve in the garden and so on and so on.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Told from a Protestant perspective

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_04]: in the early days when Protestantism was really trying to get itself going.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not sure that Tolkien would like the analogy that much,

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_04]: but it was one of the source texts that I had students looking at.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And little details, the fallen angels,

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_04]: some of them turn into insects when they land in hell.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And they all turn into snakes after Satan turned himself into a snake

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_04]: and tempted Adam and Eve in the garden.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So seeing him taking on a centipede and a rat

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and all this kind of stuff, okay.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I can see some mechos there.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Sneaky, wormy, like sort of black gooey mouse.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_04]: The Uzi Sauron.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this whole...

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought the effect was fantastic here.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, him being like worm constituted

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then just slapping a slimy arm down on a rat.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I loved it.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think too we...

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Reading about Sauron or hearing about Sauron

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and how he changes form.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the...

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Are there any written descriptions of him shifting form?

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I think this is the first time it's been depicted.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why it's so interesting is this is how they're conceiving of...

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_04]: The ways in which Sauron can change his form and so forth.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a little uncomfortable with how they stretch the boundaries a bit.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I found myself wondering

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_04]: could Malia never have been killed

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_04]: because she was a Myar from the first stage?

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And you know,

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_04]: sometimes I feel as though,

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, that's a little humanish,

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_04]: but I'm just gonna go with it.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And then once again,

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: the power of the unseen world comes up

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and I hope they really do explain it to us more fully

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_04]: or show it to us more fully

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_04]: because I'm still a little unclear of exactly what they mean.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: John, was that the same place that Galadriel was at in season one?

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It is that exactly.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where she was a forage wave.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they were naming it for a forage wave.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, forage.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is a northern outpost of the Sauron forces

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: or the Orcish forces.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Because remember in the first stage,

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Morgoth was based in the north of Beleriand.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So the north would have been where you looked for evil.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why Galadriel was looking all up north

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in the first part of the first season.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then she's like, oh wait, no, he's in the south lands.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now we figured it out.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It's also the first time that we see Sauron

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: literally being worshiped, which is interesting.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was actor Jack Loudon, I believe,

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: who was playing Sauron there.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And it took me the longest time because I recognized his face.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, who's that guy?

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is that guy?

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I finally clicked and I looked him up

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because he plays a main character in Slow Horses,

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: which is on Appletee.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to say I wasn't all that comfortable with Sauron

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: actually kneeling to the crown.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I understand why they did it

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_04]: because otherwise it's going to be kind of tough to, you know,

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_04]: put the crown over and stab him in the back

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_04]: if he's standing above you.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But I just couldn't picture Sauron kneeling to anyone.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to look past that because it was a cool scene.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it really cool.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll come into play here.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Jon, are you liking the new Adar?

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The new Adar I like, I think I said that in my hot take.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think he's capturing the character well.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he kind of just has to grunt a few lines every now and then.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think, you know, we've seen him more in other episodes too,

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think he's doing a good job.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: This scene, I think it was really great to see him feign

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that he was bowing down to Sauron,

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that he was going to crown Sauron and then flip.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Literally as well, figuratively.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Good point.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I do like that we're going into this

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: orcish rights movement, right?

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, well, freedom for the orcs, right?

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to bow down to one of you other holy beings.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We're our own thing now.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of almost sympathize with Adar here.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because we're getting into Adar's motivations, right?

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: He's not just and later will there'll be some scenes where it's

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not just evil creatures to be,

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, thought of as a holy evil.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're evil, but like there's they're showing us

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: some more dimensionality to who these creatures are.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And once in a particular subsequent episode,

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_04]: which tied in beautifully with some feedback we had on

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Rings and Rituals.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was that was fun.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I also was thinking of again,

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Sagi Sauron descending into the earth.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_04]: It reminded me of the Baohraag transforming in his fight

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_04]: with Gandalf.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm hmm.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Below the bridge, his fire was quenched,

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_04]: but now he was a thing of slime stronger than a strangling snake.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, very good.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if they were harking back to that too.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good poll.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good poll.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about this blast of energy that that

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron emits when they think he's dead?

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I was glad they did that because that's the part that

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: said, OK, he really isn't a human.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_04]: He really is something more.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's nothing in the lore about that.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: That's entirely show creation.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we don't we don't see Sauron ever have his

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: corporeal body killed or transformed.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He just kind of shows up in a different form every now and

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: then, right?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, hey, I'm still here.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Just sort of walks out of the shadows,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: out of the fold of space or something.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it'd be interesting to see what happens at

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the very end of all five seasons because at the

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_04]: very end.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, spoiler.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey now, fair enough.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the second half of this flashback scene

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that I call the near redemption.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The newly reconstituted Sauron meets a band of

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: traveling men who are fleeing from the

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: architects of Mordor slash the Southlands.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's still the Southlands at the time.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: An older man carrying the sigil of lost kings of

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the Southlands convinces him to join their party

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and sail to new manure.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Their ship is attacked by a sea monster leaving the

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: older man pinned down instead of helping the man.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron takes the pouch with a royal sigil.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron calling himself Halbrand saves Galadriel

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: leading us back to season one.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought this was really a great way to answer

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_04]: a lot of the questions from season one to

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_04]: bring people in who maybe didn't see season one

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but get enough connection just to tie it all up

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_04]: very nicely.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was also nice to see a genuinely good human

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_04]: being from the Southlands who would just say that.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They'd all look pretty well except for the ones

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_04]: who were the main characters like the Redman and so forth.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Even if it does get him killed in the end,

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean at least we do know that.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And I also like the fact that this demonstrated

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: that Sauron does have power to control the sea worm

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_04]: because that was a question from season one was,

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_04]: did he call the sea worm back at that time

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_04]: when it came back to attack them?

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Was he controlling it in some fashion?

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't reading it as him controlling it.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I read it as it saw him and went,

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, I got to get out of here.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm afraid of him recognizing him as power.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: No, that could very well be.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I took it then later with the later scene

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of him charming the warg or the, is it the warg?

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I mixing my IPs?

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The big dog beast that he has some control

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: or power over animals or some inroads.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like one of his things.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was going to ask that from a lore standpoint

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: is that something known of Sauron

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: as he known to be able to command beasts in this way?

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Because even though Hal Brand is just floating there,

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he doesn't do anything.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the sea creature turns away and you're just like, wait,

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, like you're left questioning,

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: but then later then I'm like,

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, maybe he's got some, you know,

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that's part of his power set.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think, John?

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I have an idea, but you go ahead.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to open up my Kindle app

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: so that I can pull a quote from Baron and Luthien

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because there's a whole thing about wolves in there.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's still loading now, so that's great.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Marilyn, what's the...

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Sauron is known to be a shapeshifter.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And he can take on the shapes of animals as well as humans.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So if nothing else...

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_02]: To be a thing is to know a thing,

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: as maybe some other shows might say.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking of Odo from Deep Space Nine, but you know...

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay, good, good.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think you could point to that as saying, you know,

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_04]: there's a reason why he might,

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and certainly even more have a affinity for wolf-like creatures.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is where the darkness served us all very well.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they got tired of everybody laughing hysterically

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: at their baby war from season one.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And they said, alright, we'll just not show you all the details.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Laugh at the darkness.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The...

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: In terms of lore, is that sea creature?

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that also a show creation?

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, pretty much.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And the whole confusion about the word worm...

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I think ties into the fact that Worm is a Germanic term,

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: which can cover worm, snake and dragon.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think you could just as easily call it a sea dragon.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Certainly it looks more like a dragon than a worm.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But the Southlanders called it a worm,

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_04]: so that's what we're left with.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It is one quick thing about wolves from Baron Luthien.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: This is from when Baron is fighting off people in his homeland in North

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Onion, it says,

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: therefore an army was sent against him under the command of Sauron

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and Sauron brought werewolves, fell beasts inhabited by dreadful

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: spirits that he had imprisoned in their bodies.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what he was doing with wolves is imprisoning...

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: ...the wolves in prisoning them with spirits.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Possessing them.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So this Bodge well in terms of pain and decay,

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: when we know that they know their lore,

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're being able to bring this stuff in,

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that's kind of cool.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's also the scene on the bridge where Juan is fighting...

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Like wolf after wolf.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Wolf Sauron when he comes out and he keeps changing shape

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's a wolf and he's a snake and he's a bunch of other things.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, my little Sauron has just made an appearance.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So hopefully she won't eat the microphone or anything like that.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I do really like the fact that they brought us around

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and closed the loop on where, you know,

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Sauron's backstory and clearing up this mystery

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: about how he got that little sigil and all of that kind of stuff.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So it really confused me at the beginning of the episode.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't sure what was going on.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's like, oh, okay, I got all this now.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it was nice to wrap it all the way around

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to the opening of season one.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, like you said, John,

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it really highlights the importance of the characters

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're going to be focusing on in this season.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The rings of power, right?

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: This is all about Sauron.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: This is all about rings.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: This is all about, you know,

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Galadriel and the elves

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and how this affects them and everything.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the most important thing for me in this scene

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: is that it's not factually like bullet point by bullet point

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: accurate to what Sauron was doing in the books

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_00]: in the beginning of the second age,

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_00]: but it is very much the spirit of this.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So in the books at the beginning of the second age,

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron goes, well, my boss is dead.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: What do I do now?

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes to Aeonwe,

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: who is the herald of Manwe,

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_00]: correct me if I'm wrong, Marilyn.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, hey, what's the vibe back home?

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I come home and just say, oopsie daisies

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and be one of the holy ones again?

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And Aeonwe says, look, you can come with me.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've made a huge set.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, that's what it is.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, look, you can come with me.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll go to the Valar.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll have a little trial

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll see what the consequences will be.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you did a lot of messed up stuff.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You got her face consequences.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, that sounds hard.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to do that.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's basically what happens here with this older man, right?

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He says, well, how do I be good?

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, well, you know, you're not just good.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to choose every day to be good.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, oh, that sounds hard.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he goes right back to his old ways.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's very true to the character.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I really appreciate that and an adaptation, right?

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They've really captured the essence of this character

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: without sticking exactly

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to a note for note retelling of the book.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're right.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It was very, very well done.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And particularly that moment of,

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_04]: well, you have to choose it again every morning.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is an easy scene to overlook

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in all of the other stuff that's going on

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: is that that's a very, I think,

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: a really important moral point.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if we're going to take anything

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: from Tolkien's writings and what he was trying to say

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't know how much that actually comes out

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: of what Tolkien would have said or wrote, Marilyn.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You can validate that.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But in terms of here I am listening to that and going,

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, good isn't just something that's passive.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's active choices.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's thinking.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's being present.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's being present to other people.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is this person?

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What do they need right now?

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Who am I in this relationship?

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we're thinking about our modern day politics,

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot of those questions about

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: questioning our values and our assumptions

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_02]: about things and what choices are we making.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a really particularly important

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: statement that gets made here.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just gone in a second, that scene.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, which means you're not going to feel preached to,

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: which is always a good thing.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a good point.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And yes, free will is the heart and soul

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and root and essence of Tolkien's moral compass

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and the worth.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_04]: With the recognition that if you don't have

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_04]: the option of doing evil, then you don't really

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_04]: have the choice of doing good.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a choice if you see what I mean.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right, right.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_04]: By which I am not saying that good requires evil

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_04]: in order to be good.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying that at all.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't do that.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a recognition that we all have this

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_04]: awesome power and responsibility.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we can do bad things.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's where the morality comes in,

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_04]: is you choose every morning and sometimes 17 times a day.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: They're having had this experience of being a parent,

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_02]: right, and observing children and these kinds of things.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I won't say anything about elves or dwarves

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because I've never met one, but I can certainly say

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: human children.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_02]: There are all of these impulses that come out

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and that we condition and we learn and we

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: enculturate into saying, yeah, you might have had

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that impulse, but at some level, you need to

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: make a choice not to snatch that toy away

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: from the other kid or grab somebody else's

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: food off of their plate.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Because they might have been hit the plate

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: on your head.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is then there just right again.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So there we go.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So we have these impulses as people that we do

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: need to make choices about every day.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We are totally screwed on recording two podcasts tonight.

[00:41:29] I know.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why I ever suggested it.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought you were being touchingly optimistic.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Hope is never meager.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Even when it is here.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's move on though.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel versus Elrond.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is now the opening of the main episode.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: After that cold open Galadriel and Elrond

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_00]: raced to Linden while Elrond attempts to keep

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: the Elven rings from her.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond shakes Galadriel and upon arriving

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: she's taken to Gilgallad.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad demands the truth of Halbran's

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: identity before they can discuss the rings.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel admits Halbran was Sauron

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and is reprimanded.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_00]: However, Gilgallad continues to pursue

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the use of the rings.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond fearing Sauron's influence over the rings

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: jumps off a cliff with them.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: There are stuff that I like in this scene

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know this collection of scenes

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and then there are other things that are

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: real kind of head scratchers for me.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember the end of season one

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: so the chase scene doesn't make sense to me

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: like I don't have any context for it

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so I'm kind of like oh wait are they

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: writing and it's fun?

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: They're writing it's an urgent thing

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: but then you see her grabbing and then you're like

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: wait what's going on?

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: There was not connective tissue enough

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: there for me to understand to drop me into

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the context.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And then seeing Robert Armillo

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: do a jump off the cliff

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking of Harrison Ford

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and what was that movie?

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, doesn't matter.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a deep lore poll actually.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What he just did there.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Marilyn, do you want to give the lore?

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's good because it feels to me like

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: more of a Hollywood cinematic thing

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: than it does a deep lore thing

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think if there's something there that's great.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not coming up with it John.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh John's got a clue.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Cosme a clue.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Elwing

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: jumping off a cliff

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to get away from the sons of fein

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_00]: or trying to take the someral from her.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I like it.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And then transforming into a bird

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because things happened in the first age

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and she transforms into a bird

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and brings a someral to Aarondale.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I was too stuck on jumping off a cliff

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: instead of jumping into the ocean so.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right and we don't see anything that happens

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: he just sort of goes away so but that's cool

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that they're calling to that then

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a part that's lore that I don't know.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That is great and particularly since Elwing

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_04]: is of course Elrond's mother so.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, that's the whole point

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and we get reference to his father

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_00]: later in the episode so.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're really pulling on

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a big theme of this season

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so far seems to be on legacy.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And how

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: whether we choose

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_00]: to continue in the ways of the past

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_00]: or move towards something in the future

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is something that I think is big

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in these first three episodes.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting, yeah.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll keep that in mind for my subsequent

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_04]: me, Roger there.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Another question I had was

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really understand how

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_02]: she gets taken. I mean this is a show

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: thing. You know the guards say

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: oh well you know

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Harold Elrond is

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: putting you sort of

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: under arms as it were

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but she's a general of the Northern Army

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and I didn't understand that.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he's High King.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't say Harold Elrond.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, okay, okay.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But he speaks for the High King.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_04]: That's true. So as far as the lowly guard

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_04]: is concerned if

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_04]: the Harold of the High King tells you to do something, you do it.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. Even if it's to the general

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_04]: of the Northern Armies because the general of the Northern Armies

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04]: is also subject to the High King.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure and they certainly were arguing

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: like brother and sister in front of their dad

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: in this scene.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I this is where I really said

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_04]: okay they finally figured out Gilgallad

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I just thought he was superb

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and when

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_04]: she finally admits

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_04]: that it was Sauron

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and she can't even say his full name

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: she like cuts it off at the end.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Well the noise that Gilgallad makes

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_04]: it's like he's wanting to

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_04]: he snarls

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: or he hocks it almost spits

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean it's just a fabulous sound

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I do just really

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was going to be the beginning

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_04]: of a curse of some kind

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_04]: or something.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well you know when we watched those trailers

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because that line was in the trailer right

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like who is he?

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: She eventually says he's Sauron.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought they were going to do a

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: little edit thing there

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and really we were going to have to wait episodes

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_00]: for her to admit that he was Sauron

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was going to be a whole thing

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_00]: which is bad writing

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and that would have been bad writing

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was worried about that

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but here I think this was great

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: we get it all on the table right away

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and the issue is

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: not that she won't admit it

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but that Sauron's one step ahead.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_04]: He's also out there now

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and there's subsequent

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_04]: observations by Elron

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_04]: to her

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_04]: about just how extensively she's been

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_04]: affected by that whole thing.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Which points to

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_02]: they're starting to from this scene forward

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_02]: they're really starting to build

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Elron to saying

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: this guy knows how to play chess

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and none of us are near his level

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I can barely perceive

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: this guy's level of game playing

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: as smart as I am I can't

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: penetrate his

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: schemes because his schemes are

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: schemes within schemes.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah highly convoluted and complex

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and the relationship is no longer

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_04]: older sister or younger brother

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_04]: it's really fascinating

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_04]: to see how quickly that changed

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and I think that was the whole point

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_04]: at the very end of the final episode

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_04]: of the first season the look on Elron's face

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_04]: as he was looking at Galadriel

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_04]: when he

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: he'd come back from the river with

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_04]: evidence that you know how

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Buran whoever he was was not the king

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_04]: of the Southlands because he knew that now

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and Galadriel just

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_04]: wasn't giving and she was

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_04]: kind of relying

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04]: non-verbally on the trust me

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_04]: you promised you would trust me

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's just not doing it

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_04]: he's just not

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_04]: doing it

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and so I can in my mind

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_04]: manufacture the transition scene which we didn't

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_04]: see which you were saying David

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_04]: where he strides forward

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and snatches up the rings

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and dashes off down

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_04]: the turret

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and off he goes

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely can see him doing

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that after that whole scene because

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_00]: he felt betrayed and I

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_00]: think what makes this scene most interesting to me

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and this whole conflict throughout

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_00]: the first three episodes is

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I can see both sides of this

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_00]: right? I can see

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_00]: him saying that was

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron involved get rid of it

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but I can also see everyone else saying

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_00]: pause for a second

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_00]: let's figure out what's going on because clearly

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: they're doing something good

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: let's run some tests here

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_00]: so I

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: think they both have good points to make

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's a good thing that

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond is pushing back on this

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_00]: blind like hey let's

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_00]: get to using these things

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_04]: yes, absolutely

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: alright shall we move on

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to the age of Mordor

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: sure

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron has himself brought to Adar

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_00]: claiming to still be the king

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_00]: of the Southlands and offering

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_00]: information on the whereabouts of Sarron

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_00]: in exchange for the freedom of the enslaved

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_00]: men. They refuse

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and Waldrag is put in charge of obtaining

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Hal Brand's knowledge

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Adar insists that Sarron is dead

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_02]: good opening

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: shot of a volcano given all the pyroclastic

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_02]: proclivities

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it was amazing wasn't it

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_02]: it looked really good

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_02]: it felt like a live shot

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_02]: not even CGI

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: even though

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I know the backstory

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and the directions that we're moving in

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I still had a hard time

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_04]: figuring out how this

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_04]: move on Sarron's part was going to

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_04]: advance his agenda

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_02]: turning himself in

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I'm really confused about

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: all of that

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like why would he do

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: what is he doing

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_02]: he's playing 5D chess here

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: he's gotta be

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: well to me

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_00]: he's gonna go

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's trying to

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_00]: turn

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the armies of Adar

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_00]: towards the elves right

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_00]: have his enemies take each other out

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and then come in for the remains

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that's what I think he's doing

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you're gonna bet some serial

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you're gonna put some internet on

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's fair because I read the books

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_04]: basically yeah

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to get to where

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_00]: we

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think just to make it

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_00]: in line with Sarron's intentions

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_00]: he's just trying to take out as many of his enemies

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's way more effective to have

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_00]: your enemies fight each other

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_00]: than to fight them yourself

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and you can still write in at the end

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_04]: and gloat over Adar before he

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_04]: kills him in some horrible way

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: by the way I need to back up just one second

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_04]: to the dramatic moment when Elrond

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_04]: plunges over the cliff

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Gilgallad says something about

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_04]: you know I'm not surprised he

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_04]: wanted to escape that badly

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and Galathriel says

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_04]: escape is not his plan

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and I heard I must face him

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_04]: alone

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_04]: which is exactly what happened

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and I just

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_04]: it's a star wars reference

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_04]: for those of you who are not

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_04]: with me on this one but

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I just couldn't hear that line

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_04]: without hearing

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_04]: that subsequent line

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_00]: can I ask you all

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: why is

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron bartering for the

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: freedom of the southlanders

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the one thing I can't figure out

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I have a thought

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: he has to immerse himself in the role of

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_04]: King of the Southlands

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: he is Halbrand in this moment

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_00]: he's doing

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_00]: what is it that Jared Leto did

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_00]: stupidly

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_00]: like a merchant

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: what am I trying to say

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_00]: when an actor like

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_00]: immerses themselves in the role

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: method acting

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_04]: that's it method acting

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the only thing that made sense to me is

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: he had to not

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_04]: have Adar even have a hint of the

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_04]: suspicion of a quirk

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_04]: how brand was anything

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_04]: other than what he appeared to be

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_04]: so he has to

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_04]: he is taking on the character of

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Halbrand in the same way he take on the skin

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_04]: of a wolf I mean this is another example

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_04]: of his ability to transform

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_04]: from one creature to another

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and this is the sort of thing that

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_04]: you could see the king of the southlands doing

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_04]: fair enough you know free my soldiers

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: free my free my people

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a king I'm taking care of the good of my people

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'll give you the information you want

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_04]: and of course you know the response

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_04]: is haha we will tear the information

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_02]: out of you and it may come to pass

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_02]: later that the southlands

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_02]: is part of his plot as well right

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_02]: so you know yeah sure

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's more now yeah

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that's true it is more door

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_04]: but the humans who live in warglove

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_02]: right that I mean that he's gonna somehow

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: you know you know that's all

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_02]: part of his schemes so

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess Adar

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_02]: is

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_02]: he doesn't have the ability to see

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_02]: through Sauron's disguise so

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: he doesn't

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: he's not more magical than

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Sauron right I mean obviously Sauron's very

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: powerful but like he doesn't have

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: no he was an elf who got turned into a

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_00]: right he's just a

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say mortal what's the right way

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_02]: serial

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and a child of Lulutot

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that what

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the sticking point here is I don't

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: know if Adar even understood

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: what Sauron was

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_00]: he could have seen Sauron as

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: an elf who worked for

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Morgoth the same way Adar

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: was an elf who started working for Morgoth

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_04]: okay did he have elf ears

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_04]: in that very first crowning scene I don't

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_02]: remember I don't recall seeing any I don't

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_00]: know I don't know the point the point

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to make is just I don't I don't

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: know if Adar had a full understanding

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_00]: of Sauron's power

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_04]: well I'm thinking of something from a subsequent

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_04]: episode so I won't mention it now

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_04]: okay but there is something that kind

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_04]: of for me points to him realizing

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_04]: he was clearly

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04]: definitely identified as

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Morgoth second in command

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04]: mm-hmm for sure gotta be more than

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_04]: than just a jumped up elf I think

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_04]: okay all right

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_04]: when we get there you know see what you think

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah this

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_02]: whole thing of power over flesh

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_02]: mm-hmm right this line gets

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_02]: dropped

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_02]: here in this conference that's what Halbrin

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_02]: uses to to twig

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Adar's

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: um

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you know senses or whatever his

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_02]: interest his interest thank you

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and then that's also what

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_02]: not

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: cured on redhead Sauron said

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_00]: redheaded Sauron people are calling

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_00]: him redhead Sauron trailers

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_04]: okay are you thinking this is also what

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Caleb Rimbour said yes sorry

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly Brimbor what Kelly Brimbor

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know that the conversations at Halbrin

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and killer Rimbour having

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah in this idea that that's not

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_00]: for a couple episodes so

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_04]: oh should we know no it happened in season one

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_00]: did it yes yeah

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry I'm sorry

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that's what twig to go out the real

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: to the realization

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_04]: that Halbrin was

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: looking mighty suspicious right now because

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_04]: she had heard

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Adar say it will carry on

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that's it but well I just just that

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_02]: this is a this feels like it's

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_02]: gonna be one of the main themes right this is

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_02]: that these rings have power over flesh

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and I really hope that they explicate

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that in some fashion yeah because

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_04]: a sword has power over flesh right

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_00]: or is it power of the flesh

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_04]: right exactly why are we

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: with the sword yeah I think the point

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: with power over flesh is

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is someone else's

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_00]: flesh is subject to your will

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah so why don't you just say mind control

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and be done with it

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_00]: because it sounds more Tolkien has to say power over

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_04]: flesh oh

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know one thing that in this

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_02]: scene too that I thought was interesting is

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is that we see an orc

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: expressing a fear

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02]: or a doubt

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: in a way like oh well it can sour on come back

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know like yeah that's not

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: an emotional state

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that we've ever seen in the

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah the hordes of bad guys

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that are just there to be you know moored

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_04]: down by the heroes well they're giving

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_04]: us an excellent visual cue with this

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_04]: we saw that orc in this

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the crown non-crowning

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_04]: scene right so we know that

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_04]: one's been around a long time that orc

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_04]: looks the closest to an elf

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_04]: hmm after adage

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_04]: himself so I mean I think

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_04]: they want us to interpret this as this is

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_04]: a very early order okay

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_04]: who still has more

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_04]: potentially elven

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_04]: kinds of approaches

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_04]: to life okay you could say

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and we'll see another example of that

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_04]: in either two or three

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_04]: which we'll get to when we get there

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_00]: sounds good well why don't we take a quick

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: break before we get back to more rings of power

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_04]: hmm

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_04]: hmm

[00:57:12] hmm

[00:57:13] hmm

[00:57:14] hmm

[00:57:15] hmm

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're back so the next scene is

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_00]: over in rune it's called the stranger

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_00]: stars the stranger has dreams

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_00]: of a staff a bearded man something

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_00]: molten and

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: grasping for nori

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in a storm he leaves

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: his daydream to find nori

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: who prompts him to talk about

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: his dreams they're lost in rune

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: without food so nori convinces the

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_00]: stranger to use his magic on a tree

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_00]: again he loses control but the tree

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_00]: explodes revealing bugs that nori

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_00]: considers quality eating

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that night they discuss his

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_00]: dreams and their mutual homesickness

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: they realize they are being followed

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah so you're saying

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_02]: john that you're the hardfoot stuff

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is doing okay for you this my heart

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: is bigger than my feet

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: oh my goodness

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that's a good life to see the day

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_00]: that's it

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm liking it

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like I thought

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the whole like oh they dance down

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_00]: your throat I was like that's disgusting

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and hilarious

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that is very

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_04]: hobbit you know and they have a special song

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_04]: they sing exactly dance on the way down

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a ritual

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_04]: oh I'll have to keep that in mind

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to keep that in mind

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_04]: it's also very

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_04]: it's also very biblical because

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_04]: John the Baptist when he lived in the wilderness

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_04]: lived on

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_04]: bugs and honey

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's also the one who goes ahead

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_04]: of the one who will sacrifice himself

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and then return

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04]: okay whose name

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_04]: might start with a G and not appear

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_04]: until the third age gotcha

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_04]: but

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_04]: for that very reason I

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_04]: add that to my little pile of evidence

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_04]: that he is not Gandalf

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_04]: mmm I'm still holding

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_04]: out for him being a blue here

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and I have the mighty

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Professor Corey Olson on my side on this one

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_04]: so I'm feeling okay very happy about that

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking he's a blue but I do think

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the guy in his vision is a blue

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_04]: oh yeah definitely

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure that's

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_00]: blue wizard in fact when I first saw that

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like Marilyn's gonna love that shit

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_04]: you were not wrong John you were not wrong

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah there's some

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll definitely be talking about it

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but if you pause

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're able to freeze frame on those scenes

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_02]: there's some really good clear shots

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_02]: of stuff that's coming

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and I like the fact that

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_02]: this is not too spoiler

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that they're not

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it doesn't take a long time for stuff to pay off

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah right that's exactly right

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: they're not queuing all the little

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_04]: mysteries and teases and whatever

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: right that don't pay off fully

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: or don't come until the very end

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: like this is yeah

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: they're wrapping up a lot of threads and they're

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_04]: spinning some new ones yeah right

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I did John did you think that the way that

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the staff was floating there it felt

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: very much like a power-up in a video game

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like it was kind of yeah

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah they're spinning them

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that's pretty funny

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I like it

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I did feel this is where

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and again it could be a me thing

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought that all of this ruined stuff

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a slower pace

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_02]: to the evolution of the action

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: in the plot

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm trying that to be critical

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just noticing in that

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't know if that's me

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and do I need to slow down

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and take the show

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the way that it's being presented

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: or am I being a little bit too much about

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know modern age

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: podcaster come on give me the plot

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: move along and

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: it took like a third of the book to get out of the shire

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: we gotta you know

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: just pay a little bit of homage

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to Tolkien

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_04]: well it's not just that it's perhaps

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_04]: a contribution towards them

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: helping us realize the vast

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: distances that are involved

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_04]: because that was one of my big

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: criticisms of season 1

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: they you know it just looked like

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Eregion and Mordor were

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_04]: you know weeks journey away

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_04]: which just simply was not the case

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_04]: so

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that may be part of why they're doing it

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: but even though poppy leader says

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you guys didn't actually get that far

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_04]: well true no that's true

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_04]: because they went around in circles three times

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that's true

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: so you know they weren't

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_04]: they were taking lots of time they just weren't getting

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: very far I think my favorite part

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: of the scene though is

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: it reminds me of Spidbimi

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: all that you do in evil shall prove

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but mine instrument

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and the stranger loses control

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and perhaps you could consider it a bad act

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: right to explode a tree but then what

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: comes out of it is food

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: they find the food underneath

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the explosion and I'm

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all for that that's very Spidbimi that's very

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: talking to me and I think

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: they're also using the travel time

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: to develop the characters

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah because each each time

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_04]: we go back to them there's something new

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah especially because the stranger spent season 1

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: grunting basically right

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: it's lovely to hear him speak he's fully

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: he's fully articulating now

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: what did you say perhaps wizards

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: aren't always fair I was like ha yes a good

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_04]: line yes yes

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and that which is left behind can be

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the heaviest burden to carry that was in my notes

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: as well that was a really interesting point

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that excellent line yeah

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: that you know often times

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the things that we

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not that we don't

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: put them down we're still a

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to work it out in my mind like how

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: does that work but

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: there are things in our past that we're not

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not active with us but

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: right but still have weight to

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: us and still

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: still

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: affect how our our gate

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and our pacing in life even though

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not something that's a

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: active ongoing

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: thing does that make sense

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that's about it oh absolutely

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: absolutely I mean sometimes

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_04]: you know that the wounds take

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_04]: if it's wound if we use

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that years to heal right

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and you keep coming back to it until

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: all the work that

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you need to do is done right I was thinking

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: more memories to things that we

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah we say okay well

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I've left that part of my life behind but yet

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it's no you haven't yeah

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and the healing comes in recognizing

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: that you need to integrate it

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: mm-hmm right

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought another interesting line

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that he drops which

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: he when he's reminiscing

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: about

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: his home you know this flashback

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and he says you know it's so it's there just

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: beyond the sunset

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't think it's a direct

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're calling

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: directly to it but it's something that

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of rhymes in the

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: larger Tolkien sphere

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: which in the movies

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: was a line that

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: does it gandalf saying it to pippin

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: when he's describing

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: crossing the seas and

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: going to Valinor and the

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: rain and the mist

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something like that yeah

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: except I think it's a description of Frodo

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: actually going in the book yeah and I

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_04]: don't think that Sunset is

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_04]: involved that's a confusion a lot of people

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_04]: okay in the text it says under a

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_04]: swift sunrise that's what it is

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: okay so like I said it's not

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: a direct thing but it just it just reminded

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: me it just gave me feelings of that

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_02]: same sort of sure he's

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: evoking that level

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: of emotionality to as

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: when Gandalf was talking at least in the

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: movie because I know in the book it's

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: it's written differently in

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and then

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: okay so pippin does it in the

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: sorry Gandalf says it's pippin in the movie

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a description of the Frodo journey in the book

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: right but that whole

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: beautiful like you just

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: feel it's such a descriptive passage

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that you just are so transported by

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: it and he just drops that line

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: just there just beyond the sunset

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and it just has that

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: emotional gravity to it

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm nice

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah yeah and

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and the stranger being

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the Astari

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: is going to have his

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: home in the west he's gonna have his home just

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: beyond the sunset

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: mm-hmm

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: alright let's go to

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron's solitary confinement

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_00]: in the prison of Adar

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron meets a vicious warg

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Waldragh unsuccessfully attempts

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to beat the information out of Halbrand

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and Halbrand promises to kill Waldragh

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: when the jailers leave

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarron uses his food

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to attract the warg

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: then uses a mysterious speech to team it

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and give it instructions was this black

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: speech is that what that is so yeah I

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: think so

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe we'll be able to tell once we get

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_04]: subtitles yeah right

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: right it'll probably say like in black

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: speech exactly

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: if you don't know black speeches the

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: language used on the inscription

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: of

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of the one ring

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and it was a speech that

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_04]: was developed for the orcs

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I think by Sarron he invented

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: oh okay

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_04]: because the orcs came from different

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_04]: regions and had different

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: speeches you know ways

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_04]: they had so many different orc languages that they all

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: spoke common tongue to one another but

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the orcs from Morgor would

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_04]: use the black speech because that's what

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_04]: they were trained in

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: interesting so I think I remember

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: this is pretty much a

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: set up scene right this is just

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: setting up some stuff to

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: come and and I but I think

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the most important thing for me was

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: just his ability

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: to

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: manipulate animals

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: right yeah which we talked about

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: with the words you know something that's

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: important to me is I can never

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: decide which name to use

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: for Sarron in the moment so I go back

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and forth between whatever name he's using

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: fair enough

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: idea like in this it's Hal

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: brand right right right but I stopped

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: the tags Sauron so it's like

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: how many slashes can I put in an entry

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: right all right oh I'll

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_04]: triple the issue and we

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_04]: get a new character exactly

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly so let's meet

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Kyrdan then oh yes

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_04]: let's meet here so let me

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: read the scene first and then Marilyn

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you can go into your Kyrdan

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: mini directors

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Elron hides under a bridge

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Greyhavens where

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Kyrdan mentors a ship right

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: when he returns to his workshop

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: he beckons Elron to come out of hiding

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Elron seeks to help

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: sorry Elron seeks

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: his help to talk sense into

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the elves Marilyn

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you want to tell us who Kyrdan is

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyrdan is probably one

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_04]: of the very first 144 elves

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_04]: to awaken by the shores of

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Quivian and he's

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: the oldest surviving elf

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_04]: that we know of now

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and as such has had

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_04]: a lot of life experience he might

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_04]: even have known a Dar

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't interest thought just occurred to me

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_04]: when I was taking my notes and I

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_04]: well if he was one of the original

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_04]: 144 he would have been around for this

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's really interesting

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_04]: they could have run across one another at some

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: point he's like hey at our haven't seen

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you since the reunion

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_04]: so

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_04]: during his

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: during the first age he had seen

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: the Valorome who visited

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_04]: the elves to invite them to come over

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_04]: to Valinor and he would later know

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_04]: the Maya Ossay so he has

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_04]: experiential knowledge

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: of the Valar

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: what's the Maya Ossay

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Ossay is one

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: a vassal of Ulmo Ulmo

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_04]: is the Valar of the oceans

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_04]: but Ossay

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_04]: deals with storms

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and his wife Uinen

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: deals with the coastlines

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and the plants

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_04]: and things of the coastlines we saw a statue

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: of Uinen in the jail

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: of Numenor

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's a wonderful

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: image of how the Numenorians

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_04]: have entrapped and encased

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: their

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: former ideas of the Valar

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and so forth it's just an amazing

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_04]: represented image there

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that's cool that there's a little detail

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: like that

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_04]: so he was one of the Teleri

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: remember there were three groups of elves at this point

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and as one of the Teleri

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_04]: he traveled the Elvish migration

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_04]: to Valinor but when

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Eloi who was one of the

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: three ambassadors who was the leader

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: of the Teleri and eventually

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_04]: became who we know as Thingol disappeared

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_04]: out of love and loyalty

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_04]: to his overlord

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyrdan remained behind

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_04]: searching for him

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and as a result he

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_04]: missed the final sailing of

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the Eilpold Errasea

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_04]: with the rest of the remaining elves going off to Valinor

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: now there were some Teleri who decided

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_04]: to stay on Middle Earth

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_04]: partly because of Ossay

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_04]: again Ossay didn't want them all to leave

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_04]: because he'd kind of gotten to know them and like them

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: and they'd gotten

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_04]: to know him like him too

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_04]: but even before

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: they came to Bilari and the Teleri had always been interested

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_04]: in the craft of boat making

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and they started with lakes and so on

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and an interesting bit of information

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: from the peoples of Middle Earth

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_04]: they spent some time on the sea of Rune

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_04]: building ships and you know

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: larger ships and so forth

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_04]: but Kyrdan

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_04]: was always the most skillful of all

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_04]: the ship builders and Kyrdan is a

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_04]: sender in meaning shipwright

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: so that's why he was known as Kyrdan the shipwright

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_04]: or shipwright the shipwright if you like

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like saying chai tea

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: right sure

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_04]: his greatest desire had always been to see the blessed realm

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and reunite with all his kin

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_04]: who had sailed there

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_04]: he was not permitted to go for

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_04]: four long ages

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_04]: he stood on the shores watching

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Errasea floating away on the sea and said

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to follow that light

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_04]: alone if I have to

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_04]: because the ship I've been building

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_04]: is almost ready and I can just go in the ship

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_04]: but then even as he said it

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_04]: he received news heart and message

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_04]: which he knew to come from the Valar

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_04]: though in its mind it was remembered

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_04]: his voice speaking in his own tongue

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and the voice warned him not to attempt this peril

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_04]: for his strength and skill would not

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: be able to build any ship

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: to dare the winds and waves of the great sea

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_04]: for many years yet

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_04]: abide now that time for when it comes

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_04]: then your will will be of utmost worth

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and it will be remembered in song

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_04]: for many ages after

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I obey

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyrdan answered and then it seemed to him

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_04]: that he saw in a vision

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: a shape like a white boat shining above him

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_04]: that sailed west through the air

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and as it dwindled in the distance

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_04]: it looked like a star of so great

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_04]: a brilliance that it cast a shadow

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_04]: of Kyrdan upon the strand where he stood

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_04]: so by this

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_04]: this is one of the very last writings that Tolkien ever did

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_04]: he's giving us this history

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_04]: of this amazing elf

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and foreshadowing

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the building of Vingalot

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: which was Eurendil's ship

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and the saving of the Silmouril

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and the placing of it in the sky

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_04]: so he remained

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: in Middle Earth

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: through the end of the first age

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: the second age of the third age

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: he was the leader of the people that the Noldor

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_04]: called the Falathrim

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: because they lived in the Fallis on the coast

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: but they themselves

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_04]: always called themselves the Teleri

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and after many of the

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_04]: distractions of the different Elvish

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: strongholds

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: he was able to shelter more and more people

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_04]: he fostered Gilgallad

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and he came to the aid

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_04]: of Eurendil and Elwing

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and Elrondon Elros

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: when they were very young

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_04]: so he knows all of these people

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm just wondering are they going to take advantage

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: of any of that

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_04]: in this season

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_04]: in the shows

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I tend to think not because

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: talk about deep lore

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and I just don't know if they're going to give him permission to do that

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_04]: but I don't see how it could hurt

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I think

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: they're doing it in a smart way right now

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: right they're saying

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: all your father would be proud

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: right things like that

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: nod to it so that

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you and I can enjoy it but it's not going to

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: clog up people

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: who are just trying to remember what his name is

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: right exactly

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_04]: exactly and during

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: the second age he would often

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_04]: receive

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_04]: ships from Númenor

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: so he knew Eldarion

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: he knew Eldarion's grandfather

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Vantur

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: didn't he teach Eldarion how to

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: build ships

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: worthy of the current Númenorian fleet

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_04]: build havens

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: how to build a seawall all of this knowledge

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah so he's been involved

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: with the current glory of Númenor

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and so as much as Númenor is all like

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: why do we want elf stuff

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they really got most of their expertise from the elves

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: yep

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and then he oversaw the havens

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_04]: in Lindon as we know

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and he trained all the shipwrights there

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and the helmsman

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and it became

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_04]: the refuge

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and the release point for all the elves

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_04]: in Middle Earth who decided

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: they no longer wished to stay

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_04]: when

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Númenor was founded

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: the island of Ros and the Sea

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: he was the one who oversaw the building

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: of over 50 ships

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: or more to transport

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: all of the kin of Elros

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and the rest of the Edine

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: who wanted to go to this new venture

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: following

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: that star of Irendil

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_04]: to find the land of the gift

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: known as Númenor

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and then he received

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: destruction from the Balar

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_04]: to cease any future migration to the end of the island

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: so

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think all that to say

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: it is very understandable

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: why he commends respect

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Elfin world in Middle Earth

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and as you said

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: he fostered Gilgallad

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and so Gilgallad is going to feel

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of a fatherly

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: respect for him

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and so if he comes out and he says

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: hey don't use these rings at all

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Gilgallad listens

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: hmm

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah, I mean that's kind of one of my takeaways

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: from all of this

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_04]: what I like about him so much and this is a personal thing

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_04]: he's a contemplative

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: he

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: it's like

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_04]: he's a father of the Balar

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: he has seen them, he knows them

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_04]: he recognizes that Balanor exists

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_04]: because he was told to

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: he doesn't try to go there

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: even though that's his heart to stire

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: he stays and he teaches

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's content

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_04]: you know there's at one point

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Elrond says to Curdan

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I wish I had

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_04]: your balance

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_04]: your stillness

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: so David you being

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: not immersed in Curdan lore

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: what's your take on him

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: we last saw this actor

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: playing Bel Rios

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: in foundation and now he's here

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: on our side chatter as we're getting ready

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: everybody is like oh it's

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben Daniels

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's like

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: so now I'm preloaded with

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: do I think that he fits the role

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and I didn't

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: because I don't have a lot of experience

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: with Curdan from

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Elorst at that point

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: he was kind of rudely ejected

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: from the Peter Jackson movies

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: okay, was he?

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_04]: he's standing there on the dock when they all come to

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: he's only lightly

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: involved in the books anyway but he was

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: involved more than in the movie

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: so I guess I'm stuck in the thing

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: wondering like do you guys think

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: he's the right actor to play Curdan

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and everybody's been talking

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: there's been a lot of talk about

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: this character coming up so like

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: for me I don't think I have a clear picture

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of what to expect

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: what other people think about him

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I love Ben Daniels

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: we've enjoyed him

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: in a lot of different things

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and he seems to have

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: as the actor

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: has a gravity

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a really interesting way

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that you say it

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn is that he's contemplative

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: he's content

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: which I think

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: though is interesting because when the rings come

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: into play

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that changes

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: which we're not going to talk about now but

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the fact that

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: this very calm

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: man is suddenly

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: the rings bring a different

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know in the end of this episode

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a different

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: passion that he brings I guess

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: an intensity that we don't see

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in the earlier scenes with him

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah I think we get

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: more of an explanation for that

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: in episode 2

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_04]: so we can hold those

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe we should just fight it out

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_04]: but I am thrilled

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_04]: with

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Ben Daniels

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_04]: presentation I am absolutely thrilled

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_04]: he's a little sassy

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_04]: not gonna out of the park

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_04]: sure if the devil does it's gonna be sassy

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I like it

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: he has like the right balance

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of wisdom and humor

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that I expect from somebody

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: who has lived so long

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and still does his duty right

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_04]: well and now John you just reminded me

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_04]: of a line from

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Lord of the Rings in which Pippin is considering

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Gandalf and

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_04]: realizing that he contains

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_04]: a fountain of mirth that if

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_04]: released could flood a whole

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_04]: kingdom with joy that's not exactly right

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but close enough

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: so again

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Gandalf isn't exactly calm

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_04]: but he's rather testy

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_04]: but he also has

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_04]: that mirth that joy

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_04]: which I think comes from

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_04]: that inner knowledge of

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_04]: yes there are horrible things going on in the world

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I have found a friend foundation

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: right you can find

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: he's a mirer

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: well there's obviously a lot of conversation

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: about the meaning of the word joy

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: these days

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: in these contemporary times

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and what's the importance of joy

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you know if Kyrdon has joy

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: or Gandalf has joy

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is that a thing that carries

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you through the hard times

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean one could argue that Sam

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: had joy in his heart

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's the thing that kept them

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: on their mission

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: when Frodo was ready to

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: be done with it it was Sam

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: who wouldn't let go

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because of not only

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: his current sense

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: of joy but his future sense of joy

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go back home

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm going to have a family

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and do all these other things

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: very nice

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: very nice

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: alright let's go to Galadriel and Gilgallad

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad sends a message to Kilbrim

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: more to inform him that Halbrant is

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad makes clear that he does not fully trust

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel but he knows

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: she is steadfast in the cause

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: of defeating Sauron

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel figures out where Elrond likely went

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_02]: quick question on the

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: back just going back into the last section

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is where Kyrdon is

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is directly below where

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Gilgallad is

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: no there's some distance away

[01:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah it's not

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of next door

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in the grand scheme of Middle-earth it's nearby

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I need better mapping

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a hard time keeping

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: geographically organized

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_04]: well if you think of a really long

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Firth you could say that Linden

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_04]: is at the inland

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_04]: end of it and Kyrdon is

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_04]: at the seaward end of it

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Kyrdon's on the coast because you know

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: ships and so conceivably

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the falls that

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Elrond went down are the river

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that outflows where

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Linden

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: conceivably yeah

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know head cannon

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_04]: sure if he plunged into the Firth

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_04]: then yeah Kyrdon will take him

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_04]: to Kyrdon

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: so this conversation between

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel and Gilgallad

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I'm loving it

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is the most kingly

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad has seemed

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I really like when she's

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like well if you don't fully trust me

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: why am I not in jail he's like I'm considering it

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: really good

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: yes it was fabulous and so well delivered

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: he really

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: portrayed the whole I'm not mad

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm disappointed

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it fit

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that really fits the character

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_04]: yes no I'm very

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_04]: happy with the new Gilgallad

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_04]: as I think of it

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_04]: he's definitely

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_04]: you know that

[01:22:15] [SPEAKER_04]: the testy humor as it were

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't off maybe you could say

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: but yeah we're doing really well

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel right away goes

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: okay I will earn this trust back

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: she doesn't just say you have to

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to now trust me

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: even though you don't

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: she says okay I think I figured out

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: where Elrond went

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: she just starts being useful

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that's

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the right way to go about

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: if you really mess up at work

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you just do a good job then right

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: is that how you earn the trust back from your boss

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_04]: well and I think she was really terrified

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_04]: not only by what she did

[01:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: quote-unquote but what was done to her

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_04]: she's still kind of bewildered about it

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_04]: herself and is trying

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_04]: to sort out alright what how much

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_04]: of this is me have I

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_04]: eradicated the last vestiges

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_04]: of Sauron in my mind

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_04]: or whatever you know having

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_04]: your mind invaded and suddenly you're in the midst

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: of these scenes as

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_04]: we saw at the last episode

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_04]: of the first season it's got to be terrifying

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: mm-hmm we also

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: though

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: get to be reminded

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: of Galadriel's

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of detective skills her powers

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: of detection which they did

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: they established a lot of that during season one

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: yes her ability

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: to pull these clues together and make

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: these deductions

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and I think there's

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_04]: a tinge of a

[01:23:43] [SPEAKER_04]: son away going on and it becomes

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_04]: more obvious and in subsequent scenes

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_04]: or at least more suggested

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_04]: in subsequent scenes but

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_04]: you know it's not straight up mind

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: reading you pulled

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Osanway can't do there I just

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: want to

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: very quickly summarize it which is

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah that guy

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: we're not speaking Greek here I promise

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: no we're speaking

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: true that's true all

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that means is and we can go into

[01:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: it on a future lorcaster something

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but all that means is there's an idea

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: into looking that people

[01:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: can especially elves

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: can open up their minds to

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: each other and so I can

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: willingly say Marilyn

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to sense my thoughts

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: mm-hmm and she will be able to read it

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of mind reading but it's

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of voluntary it's opt in mind reading

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's how I think of it

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_04]: yes and you can close your

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_04]: you can close your mind to being

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_04]: read but that can be

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_04]: an indication that okay so why

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_04]: are you not what you're not open

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah what are you hiding

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: which I don't think they

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it's interesting because if they

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: if they

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: approach that directly

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: in on screen

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: is that one detail

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_02]: too much for casual

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: average fans whereas if they kept

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: it on the DL like they maybe

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: they did this time like do you like you John

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you're just saying oh that's what

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm able to pull that out that that gives

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the the Lorhound people like

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I think that's great

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that's great I think where it doesn't get in the way

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: of the average fan because I don't

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: think that they would discuss it right

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they would this would be something that they consider

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: in their own minds like oh that person's closed

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: off and I'm gonna be a little suspicious

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: of them so I don't think it would be natural

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: dialogue to be like what happened to your mind

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: portal

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_04]: why you're not open to my thoughts

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: right right and it

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: can also just be interpreted as yeah I

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: know you really well I can practically read your mind

[01:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: hmm right right and that and they're

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that goes to the friendship

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: between Galadriel and Elrond

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: yes which I think all of this

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: stuff with Galadriel and Elrond

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: is so great

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you know setting up for

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Lord of the Rings stuff where

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know she's over here and he's over there

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and then there's I think it's great

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I just love the drama

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: the tension that is being

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: set up at this stage for

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: for what comes later I don't love some of the chemistry

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's a little

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: too romantic almost sometimes

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and knowing that Elrond will

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: eventually marry her daughter

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: little creep I'm like oh

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about that

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: don't do that

[01:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Ed and Moors he says I'm you know

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll send you off to Ed and Moor

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: where the trolls live okay

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: yes they

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Ed and Moors were are above

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: North on the north side of the east road

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_04]: in the Hobbit we see

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_04]: the trolls coming down from the

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Ed and Moors in that troll episode and then

[01:26:45] [SPEAKER_04]: later on they're

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_04]: coming down the edges of the

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Ed and Moors in Lord of the Rings

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_04]: it's also very close to

[01:26:53] [SPEAKER_04]: the place for a lot of

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Eoddicorn's ancestors

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: what's a Bora Hobbit

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly it really

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: they're really starting to

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: there's little mentions here

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and there in these episodes

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and this kind of

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: they really are fishing

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: with a lot of

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: fishing lines out with a lot of different

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: content I don't know that's a terrible

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: analogy whatever metaphor

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: but they really are pulling

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of different stuff it's really interesting to see them

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: do this

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: did you notice all the maps

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: on his desk

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: yes guys got a plan

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was like oh boy

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: can you like

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: got a screenshot that stuff see what we can see there

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_04]: definitely definitely go for it

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: so Elrond's

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_00]: deception is up next Elrond informs

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Círdan of the Rings

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad's desire to use them

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and the involvement of Sauron

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond says he will not risk falling under

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron's influence and Círdan

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: compares him favorably to his father

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Arndil

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Círdan speculates

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that they could hide the rings in the crack

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in the sea where Beleriand was severed

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad and Galadriel arrive

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and Galadriel attempts

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to sway Elrond but Círdan has already

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: taken the rings to sea

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: so there's a

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: just like we were saying that little

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: lore pulls little lore nuggets

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: this one was just packed with it

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Elrond's father the battle the scar

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: man-way gets

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a mention

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: like there's a lot of throwing

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: casting rings into deep

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you know places

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a ton of stuff going on

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: in this one little scene

[01:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the light of Valinor shown on your face

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: or she turned away

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: calls back and calls forward

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: totally

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the Arndil pull is so

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting because

[01:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: this whole idea is Elrond says

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need this power if it's going

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to corrupt me right

[01:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Arndil's whole thing was

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: he instead of trying to

[01:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: possess the Silmarils like everybody

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: else in their mother

[01:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: he takes a Silmaril and he gives it to the Valar

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and he says do what you want with this

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and they say okay take that

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: fly around the earth

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: forever and

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you just fly in the sky forever with the Silmaril

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: so he's all about

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: duty right?

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: he is all about I just

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: want to save people's of Middle Earth

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_00]: from the influence of evil

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_04]: not unlike

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyrdan was all about duty

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: also Arndil wanted to be

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: immortal he wanted to be

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: a man he wanted to choose man

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and he chose Elf because his wife

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Elwing chose Elf

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and he wanted to stay with her

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and so these sacrifices

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: of Arndil are countless

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's why it's so meaningful

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: when Kyrdan says

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you know you do your father proud

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah although let us admit

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: the sacrifice that Elvron is contemplating

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_04]: is not just his own but the sacrifice

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: of all beings in Middle Earth

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: that's true

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_04]: so there's a certain amount

[01:30:04] of

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: better than you sort of

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: feeling going on here

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna keep myself pure

[01:30:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and it could

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_04]: be a noble aspiration

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you're saying Elrond is trying to keep

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: pure

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_04]: even for Elves I'm not entirely

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: certain that that is possible in this world

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: hmm

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_04]: and sometimes especially for Elves

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_04]: fader

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: but it was

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_04]: interesting Kyrdan's

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_04]: saying of the three rings

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_04]: that they are something louder than the sea

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: well and he says I perceive

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you've got something there

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah there's something going on there

[01:30:48] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah he can definitely

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_04]: hear and maybe what he's perceiving

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: is that fabled

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_04]: power over flesh

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that's some little juice in the mithril

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and again thinking about

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_04]: casting them in the sea

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: as an option

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: pushes me ahead to the council

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_04]: of who was that

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_04]: oh yes Elrond

[01:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: in which he says

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: we cannot cast it

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_04]: in the sea

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_04]: because

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_04]: these rings have a way of being

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: found again

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: well yeah we'll talk about it when we get to that scene

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: something's up with these rings

[01:31:34] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: so why don't we move forward so that we can get back to that

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: a familiar face here

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: a stranger in Nori trapped the one who's been following them

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: which turns out to be

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Poppy

[01:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and the sitcom

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: laughter music plays

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Poppy brings food and information

[01:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that the Harfoot's walking song

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: provides directions through rune

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they find the path forward

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but someone else watches from a distance

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: this was one of the few clunky things for me

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it was a little clunky yeah

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I would agree with that

[01:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a hard time with all of this

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: when I was doing my second watch

[01:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and taking my notes I was like

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: okay I get

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I get all the mechanical necessities

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: of what's going on

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: but it just did not

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is where I set it in the hot tags where

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: there's some stuff that's a little uneven

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: or lumpy and this is one of the areas where it was a little lumpy

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: like they hadn't fully mixed

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: in the batter right it's just like

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_03]: they didn't sip the flour first

[01:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I mean they all have stuff right

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that right like I remember

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you know since they brought food

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember Orlando Blue made fun of the way

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that they had him go

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: LEMBUS one bite will fill you up

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's an infomercial you know

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: laughter

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: why am I doing a commercial for LEMBUS

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: yes yes though I will say

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the idea of Poppy as the trail finder

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_04]: we saw her grow into that role

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_04]: for the rest of the group

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_04]: at the end of season one

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_04]: which you know kind of leads to the question

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: of okay so had they

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_04]: landed it a place where it was safer

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_04]: for them to stay for a long time so you could just

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought MOVA was made

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: pathfinder at the end

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: am I wrong

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_04]: well in name yes

[01:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: but Poppy was the one with the skill

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: remember Malva is standing there

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: reading the map and Poppy looks over her shoulder

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and says you're reading it upside down

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and Malva says well

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_04]: if you're so good you take it and lead us all

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_04]: and Poppy does

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and she's also been looking

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_04]: in Sadek's book

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_04]: which is how she found the map

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_04]: but they will be using

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: so yeah and I think that's maybe some of that

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: connective tissue that's slightly missing

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like how do you know

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you can't pack everything into the previously on

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and so not having

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: gotten that fresh

[01:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: rewatch of season one

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that made of

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: having had that might

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: have made this scene a little bit more

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: palatable yeah

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: little little I wouldn't feel the bugs

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: going down my throat

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: well they're dancing

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I have

[01:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: a good feeling that the Harfuts are gonna

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: end up somewhere in area door

[01:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: settling down near a place called

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Bree

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll see

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: so and this was all just a bunch of setup

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_02]: right so just moving

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: sure sure sure I did enjoy that the song

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: leads them through that was very

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: true to true to these

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Harfuts yeah yeah

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: that that was that was clever

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: fun time I'm biting my cheek

[01:34:43] [SPEAKER_00]: alright alright let's talk

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: about what we want to talk about here

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: here Don is about to throw the rings into

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the sea when something rocks his boat

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: from the depths he pauses

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to examine the rings as the wind

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: blows

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: so whatever

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: bubbled up there like knocked

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: his hand because the rings go flying back

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: into the boat

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I don't think he ever really

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: they don't think they ever hit the water

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_04]: no they didn't no but there's clearly

[01:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is a an overhead shot

[01:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: direct down shot of his

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: fist over the

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: water with the bag of rings like he's

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: literally about to let go

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and drop them yeah and then

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_04]: as the boat is sloshed his hand is thrown

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_04]: back and it drops on the

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's sort of thrown in yeah

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah it was confusing David at first

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought he had dropped it in the water

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and the water had literally spat it back

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_04]: but that would have been

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_04]: a bit much

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: to me this was an Eru's Bibimmy moment

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: right which is perhaps the rings

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: were made a little uncooth

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in nature

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but you need the elves to

[01:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: remain in Middle Earth to fight the influence

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: of Sauron the men can't do it alone and so

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: keep the rings

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and fix your realm

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and get your strength back up so you can fight

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in the last alliance

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_04]: that was how I read it ultimately

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean I'm asking you know was it

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Olno or was it Eru

[01:36:07] [SPEAKER_04]: was it Sauron you know

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Eru

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Eru is the one who does those little

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: nudge moments I agree

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Eru by the way you know reminder for

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: the class

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Eru Luvitar

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the creator god and

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: really hands off

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but every now and then we'll be like I'm just going to nudge things

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in that direction a little bit right

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to make sure Gollum trips on the way

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Gollum trips

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right well this is a big nudge

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and how are they going from a show

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: standpoint how are they going to explain this

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: or how are we going to

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because otherwise it's just sort of sitting here

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is there any lore basis

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: for

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Kyrdon taking the rings out

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: to drop

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_02]: No that's all made up

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_04]: No although

[01:36:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess you could point to the fact that

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyrdon and Galadriel

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_04]: in the lore were both against

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_04]: making the rings so

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_04]: they've clearly shifted away from that

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and now

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking at

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_04]: the story they're giving us and so far I'm liking it

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_04]: except

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I wish they'd done a better job

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_04]: of Kyrdon sailing

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah yeah yeah

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_04]: It was almost painful

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Anybody who has ever sailed

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: can look at this and say no

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_04]: The sail is completely flat

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_04]: it's flopping a little

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: As a connoisseur of one piece

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I would agree

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And so

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm almost thinking alright does this mean

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_04]: he's so good that he's propelling the boat himself

[01:37:37] [SPEAKER_04]: and he doesn't need it

[01:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's getting look far here

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: just sort of

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah there you go

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: There is some Earthsea coming

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: some Earthsea references coming I think

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Not quite this episode

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think we're going to talk about Earthsea in a couple episodes

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: if Kyrdon so

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: being the non-lore person on this podcast

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_02]: if y'all are telling me

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that you know Kyrdon's got

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_02]: he goes he's OG, he's deep right

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: he's all the way back

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: He gets

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: bumped by the boat

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and then thing bubbles

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: he has to have

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and he has

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: extra sensory perception

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: he's able to detect and he knows

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Elrond's in the workshop

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and leaves him there until he can come back later

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: to talk to him

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He knows that he's got some

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: powerful trinkets

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_02]: hiding behind in his back or whatever

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Louder than the sea

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that this

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: occurrence happens

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to make him keep the rings

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_02]: like to me some of this has to be accounted for

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: eventually like

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: does he know this is

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Spabimi? Does he know that

[01:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: you know that this kind of stuff

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: happens?

[01:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just oh a big

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: blorp happened in the water

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: now I'm going to open up the bag of rings and check him out

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it just made him

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: account for surroundings for a minute

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: right? Just made him sort of

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: look around and be like

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe I should examine these rings before

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I destroy them

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough but then he's got to be a kind of guy to

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: like does that happen

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: how often does it happen you know

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no sea creature did a sea creature

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: switch its tail just at that moment

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: right so

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: he's got a but yet

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: but yet if these rings are coming from

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you know Sauron and his evil hands

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: but they have to use them

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: so this is the whole like

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but you switch the cup with me knowing that

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I would switch the cup back with you kind of thing

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: right? With Eru all the

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: all the while just sort of you know

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: chuckling down at everybody. Never challenge

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: us to Larry to a battle of wits

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: when death is on the line. Death is on the line

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: the thing about contemplatives

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_04]: is

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_04]: they listen

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_04]: they know how to listen

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and they have the expectation

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_04]: that there will be messages

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm okay

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and therefore when something unexpected

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and unaccountable occurs

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: like the ocean going

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: like a burping of the ocean

[01:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: a contemplative will pay attention

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you listen to the

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_04]: you listen, you rethink

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_04]: you say okay wait a minute what am I doing

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: here let's

[01:40:21] [SPEAKER_04]: let's get some more information

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_04]: let's gather some data

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when Kiernan read the Vashtanarada

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that really changed his

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: outlook on

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: alright I'm done now I'm done with my foundation references

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_04]: and which text did he read from

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: alright so Halbrand

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: is freed is the next section here

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Adar tells Sauron

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_00]: he was one of 13

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: chosen to be the first orcs

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: he says then he saw

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron's beautiful face

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_00]: during his transformative torture

[01:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Adar has freed the sex

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: southlander slaves and demands

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: information on

[01:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron

[01:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: as Halbrand tells Adar

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: he will use the elves trust

[01:41:08] [SPEAKER_00]: to draw Sauron out and allow

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Adar destroy the dark lord

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron swears allegiance

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: to Adar and is freed

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Waldreg tries to take

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Halbrand's scraps

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and is killed by the warg

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron laughs

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: so on his ride out

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: 13 chosen

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was interesting

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and Morgoth gets

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: another name drop so lots of little

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: going back to the question

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: of rights and the

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Amazon and the showrunners

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: it was like oh well they have

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the rights to this limited stuff

[01:41:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the appendices or whatever

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: they're pulling are they pulling

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: beyond just the appendices here

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: what they're able to use

[01:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: has that scope changed

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure Morgoth

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is name dropped in

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of the stories are lightly

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: name dropped or lightly referenced

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_00]: in songs and tellings around the fire

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_00]: things like that in the Lord of the Rings book

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_00]: they may not have been in the movie but they are

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: larger

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a lot of songs in the book

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: for example everybody freaking

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: skips them even though you shouldn't

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the lesson learned

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_04]: read that poetry

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but my point is

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you even have Bilbo

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: he tells the whole story of A.R. and D.L.

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the Mariner in his song

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: in Rivendell

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you have a lot of these in there

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure we could find one instance

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: of Morgoth in the Lord of the Rings

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to double check that though

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm not just thinking Morgoth

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm just thinking again all of these

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: little gems and nuggets that keep getting

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: tossed out of here

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: don't forget he has all these appendices

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: of family trees

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and names and things like that

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: within his whole appendices

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_00]: more than people realize in the appendices

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: well yeah clearly

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and as you said John

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_04]: scattered throughout the text

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_04]: you can kind of slide over

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and not think about

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_04]: if you start with Lord of the Rings

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_04]: then you're not going to know who the heck

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Rangel is even if you do read this beautiful

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_04]: poem that describes

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_04]: his whole voyage you don't have

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_04]: the context and therefore it's kind of hard to

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_04]: slot them in

[01:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: one of my

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't fall asleep thoughts is

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: would fantasy literature

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: always come with like

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_00]: a Bible

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_00]: if Tolkien were allowed to

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: because he kind of said the format right

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: he kind of said the format of you release things in a trilogy

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and if Tolkien were allowed to release

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: a song along side the Lord of the Rings

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I think

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that might be like a common thing

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that people do now is create this

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Bible with their fantasy work

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_04]: well people do know

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_04]: not the original author but

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: lots of readers write the guide to fill in the language

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: sure but that's what I mean right

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien set

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: the standard for things like tell it

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in a trilogy make your own world

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: make your own language

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_00]: do all these inclusive things

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and while he pulled from a lot of other things

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I think he set sort of the format of the genre

[01:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: early on and

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: expectations for world building

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah and I think if he

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_00]: had been allowed to publish a summer early as he

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_00]: intended to along side the Lord of the Rings originally

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we'd see a lot more of that kind of stuff now

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_04]: yes

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_04]: let me make clear Tolkien never

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_04]: wanted it to be a trilogy

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_00]: right he was very hungry

[01:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean though

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because it came out that way

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: that became the standard but it was not

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Tolkien's idea

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: his publisher was

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_04]: hunger

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_04]: it was unwind

[01:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what I'm sorry I kept saying

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_04]: the problem was it was post world war

[01:44:47] [SPEAKER_04]: there was a huge paper shortage

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and if it had been made into one single volume

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_04]: it would have been far more expensive

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: than most people were willing to pay

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_04]: at that point

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_04]: so it was strictly a financial decision

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and he regretted it to the end of his days

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_04]: he didn't like the titles that

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_04]: were chosen for the three volumes

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: he would have just

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say the two towers is not a fantastic title

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah well he disliked return of the king

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_04]: even less because he said why it's boiled

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_04]: the whole plot

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_04]: fair enough

[01:45:21] [SPEAKER_02]: back to show it here

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I've already given up on doing a second episode

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: tonight

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_04]: we're good can I just say that I love

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_04]: the vow that Hal Brand

[01:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: takes

[01:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: my vow to serve

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the lord of Mordor

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: to the end of my days

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and his

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I really would have thought that

[01:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Adhar would have heard that

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_04]: the wheels should have started turning

[01:45:47] [SPEAKER_04]: at this point

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but he's so good at turning a phrase

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: where it could be interpreted

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_00]: in multiple ways

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: that's something that I think they're doing

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_00]: a really good job characterizing

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: this season

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_04]: definitely

[01:46:01] [SPEAKER_04]: but also I think Adhar is very invested

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_04]: in his belief that he killed

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Sauron

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_04]: which does lend credence to the possibility

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_04]: that he just didn't really understand

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_04]: the nature of Sauron's being

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean you might have had a clue

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_04]: when the blue light flew out

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and everything froze and whatnot

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean that should have made him stop

[01:46:22] [SPEAKER_04]: and think that this was just not an elf or a human

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_02]: wouldn't in some ways wouldn't that undermine

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Adhar's

[01:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: authority with the orcs?

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_02]: No

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_04]: because

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_04]: to admit that he didn't kill Sauron

[01:46:35] [SPEAKER_04]: to admit that he didn't kill Sauron

[01:46:39] [SPEAKER_04]: well at this point

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_02]: it could cause

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: some people to question

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to go

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_04]: really are you sure?

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_04]: and we already have that one work

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_04]: not so much are you the leader

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_04]: but are you sure Sauron is really dead

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and so it's almost like a father

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_04]: reassuring the children no it's okay

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_04]: there's no bogeyman under your bed

[01:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile you know that there's still potential

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Meanwhile you're starting to have suspicions

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because does Adhar know

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: does Adhar actually suspect

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I think a question that we could ask here

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: even though he's going to tell that works no

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: in his own mind

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: is he going to start to be afraid?

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he suspects that Sauron may still be alive

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_04]: in some form

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he has a clue

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_04]: that that form is standing right in front

[01:47:25] [SPEAKER_04]: right

[01:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: or has his head down

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: which is such a perfect Sauron thing to do

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_04]: JXC Sauron

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_00]: so Gil Gallant's sayings

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: oh I just want to

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: just really quick

[01:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: when we talked a little bit about this

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but I just want to add an extra note

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: this scene really sold me

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: on Sam

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Hazeldyne

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say pronounce it

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I really like his portrayal of Adhar

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: it's smooth, it's calm

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: he has this fatherly command figure

[01:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: he's not one of these

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: wild, mustachio, twirling, cackling

[01:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so evil

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: he has a lot of

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a sensitivity to him

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a kind of

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: even though they're brutal

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and inhumane

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_02]: there's also weirdly a kind of humanity

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to him

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: at least in the portrayal

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I really appreciate

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: not having over the top bad guys

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I really hate when movies and shows

[01:48:25] [SPEAKER_02]: go to the oh

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm evil and over

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_02]: over playing it

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is just really nice

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think they picked a

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_02]: good replacement actor

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_04]: well and there's

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_04]: a sense in which if your

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_04]: name is father

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_04]: yes there can be

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_04]: really horrible, brutal, abusive fathers

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_04]: in the world a lot

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_04]: but for the most part

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_04]: what we've seen is a portrayal of a caring father

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and a response to

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Adhar as a caring father

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_04]: on the part of the orcs

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_04]: so yes this is

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_04]: a villain unlike any other

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and I have always liked

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_04]: the way that

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the showrunners have chosen

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_04]: to

[01:49:14] [SPEAKER_04]: complexify if I can invent a word

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_04]: this whole question

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_04]: complicated is a much better word

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: yes thank you John

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_04]: this whole question of

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_04]: morality and

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_04]: you know

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_04]: how do people develop

[01:49:30] [SPEAKER_04]: under desperate situation

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and what choices do they make

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_00]: you know and Adhar is

[01:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: an honest villain right

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: he's always very straightforward

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in his motives

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: he's always very straightforward with everyone around

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_00]: him he's like I want to create

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a home for the orcs that is

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_00]: here that's what we're doing

[01:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron on the other hand

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_00]: is the dishonest villain right

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_00]: he lies, he deceives etc

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they both are not cartoonish

[01:50:02] [SPEAKER_00]: but they both approach their

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_00]: villainy in different ways

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that's the sign of really good writing

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and you could see

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Adhar just saying

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_04]: sure here we are

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_04]: let's focus on protecting it

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and not worry about the rest of the world

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_04]: but because of his past experience

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_04]: with Sauron

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_04]: even the hint of the suggestion of the possibility

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_04]: that he might still be around

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_04]: is enough

[01:50:29] [SPEAKER_04]: to get him to risk everything

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_04]: to say okay

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_04]: let's take the troops up

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_04]: let's

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_04]: get rid of this enemy once and for all

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_04]: how he feels particularly about the elves

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_04]: one way or the other

[01:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: because if he's going to attack a reggae

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_04]: on he's going to attack elves

[01:50:48] [SPEAKER_04]: what does that say

[01:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: well that's an interesting question

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_02]: based on what we saw in the trailer

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_02]: how does he end up

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: how does that all come about

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is it not induced

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: just to

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_00]: spoilers because I just don't want to

[01:51:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to ruin people if they've

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: avoided our trailer speculation

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_04]: exactly but yeah

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you I think

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_00]: we have some interesting stuff coming up

[01:51:15] [SPEAKER_04]: we do

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe you want to wrap it up

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah let's

[01:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: do the musical episode first

[01:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad sings

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: a requiem for the trees of Linden

[01:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and the time

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of elves in Middle Earth as the leaves

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_00]: of the trees fall

[01:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: he announces to the attendees that they must return

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to Amun

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Kirdan arrives wearing Narya

[01:51:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Marilyn

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to go through like three drafts of who had which

[01:51:44] [SPEAKER_00]: ring so if I get this wrong

[01:51:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Kirdan arrives wearing

[01:51:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Narya

[01:51:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Gilgallad drops the other two rings

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: accidentally leaving Galadriel

[01:51:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to claim Nenya and Gilgallad

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_00]: to claim Villia

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: when the three rings are worn

[01:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the trees of Linden bloom again

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: illuminating the light of the Eldar

[01:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: stares judgmentally at Galadriel

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and the three ring bearers

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: put their hands together

[01:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: can I just say hilarious moment

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: when everyone's all happy and the trees

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_00]: have illuminated and Elrond just shows up

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to just stare angrily

[01:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: at Galadriel and just walk away

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like what's your problem

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_04]: well he's still

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_04]: he's in that purity of

[01:52:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I am right and you're wrong

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm big, you're small, I'm smart

[01:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you're dumb and there's nothing you can do about it

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and it'll be interesting to see

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: what sort of story they give us about how

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_04]: that develops over time

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll freely admit I cried

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_04]: in this scene when the tree was

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_04]: wow

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and I love the song

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_04]: because

[01:52:51] [SPEAKER_04]: it sounded to me

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_04]: that one day

[01:52:54] [SPEAKER_04]: a couple thousand years from then

[01:52:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Galadriel was going to remember this song

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_04]: because he uses

[01:53:01] [SPEAKER_04]: some of the same phrases that she uses

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_04]: in one of the songs

[01:53:05] [SPEAKER_04]: that she sings

[01:53:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that's nice

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_04]: about Lorien and Lorien

[01:53:10] [SPEAKER_04]: facing the end of its days

[01:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: hmm

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_02]: did you like Benjamin Walker singing

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: was that actually him

[01:53:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I do we know

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_00]: yes

[01:53:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm pretty sure

[01:53:23] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah I thought he did a great job

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it's always a risk

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think to put in a song

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_00]: people have thoughts about musical episodes

[01:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: as I joked about

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think overall it worked

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: it did get stuck in my head

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like the

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: get stuck in my head all day

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_00]: after I watched it

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was good

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I think overall it

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it's what they would do right

[01:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: is what the elves would do if their tree was dying

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_04]: of course it is a ritual

[01:53:57] [SPEAKER_04]: farewell

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: yes

[01:54:00] [SPEAKER_02]: can we

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: talk about the three rings just really quickly

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_02]: like it just a quick synopsis of the

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the effects that the

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: rings have John I know that we've got

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_02]: a section in the

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: show guide for artifacts

[01:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but it didn't

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the descriptions didn't have

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the entries didn't have descriptions

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for what the rings powers do

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_00]: right because we haven't

[01:54:27] [SPEAKER_00]: seen it in the show yet so I was

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_00]: not there I didn't

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: want to want to

[01:54:32] [SPEAKER_04]: they may not use them in that fashion

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that's true that's true I'm a good point

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_00]: let's leave it a mystery yeah let's leave it

[01:54:41] [SPEAKER_02]: let's actually not answer my question

[01:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: about what the ring okay let's learn

[01:54:45] [SPEAKER_04]: it although what they have given us

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_04]: is

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_04]: around my thinking of an example

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't yeah I don't know

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_04]: they haven't given us anything in this episode

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah no in this episode

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: just that there's there's three of them and they

[01:54:59] [SPEAKER_02]: ring when they make

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_02]: but then they make nice ringy bouncy sounds

[01:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: when they fall

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: well well let's let's talk

[01:55:07] [SPEAKER_00]: about the future of rings here because

[01:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: kella brimbor he's got some new gear

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have a sound clip

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: for me David yeah well

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_00]: this is

[01:55:22] [SPEAKER_02]: what am I listening to this is

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: John Cusack

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_02]: standing outside

[01:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: his wannabe girlfriends

[01:55:31] [SPEAKER_02]: yard and say anything holding the boom

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: box playing so

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_02]: this is Halbrin standing outside

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_02]: oh my god

[01:55:39] [SPEAKER_00]: let me in

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that's funny so kella brimbor

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: lights his new forge as an elf tells him

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_00]: a messenger has arrived from

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_00]: linden the messenger turns out to be

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: sauron and kella

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: brimbor does not answer whether he may

[01:55:53] [SPEAKER_00]: enter so John

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think when the next 11

[01:55:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Z's when my turn for 11 Z's

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: our monthly subscriber movie comes

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: around I'm gonna do a John Cusack film festival

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_00]: oh my god yeah

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_00]: is that a thing is he he's got

[01:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: 90 he's got I just looked him up

[01:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: on IMDB he's got like over 90

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: film credits as an actor

[01:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it's crazy

[01:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: so but there's some there's some classics in

[01:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: there so say anything is

[01:56:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that one where it's a it's a classic

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_02]: gen X movie about a

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: young man trying to make his way in the world and

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: the famous scene of him holding a boom box

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_00]: over his head I loved it and thank you

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: for that it's getting late folks

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I gave I just gave everybody

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: an earworm for the next

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_00]: there you go next day

[01:56:38] [SPEAKER_00]: well I don't think there's much to say about this

[01:56:40] [SPEAKER_00]: anyway he's got his new workshop

[01:56:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn I've

[01:56:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got something first of all who in

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_04]: the world stores an anvil in the ceiling

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_00]: ah fan really good point

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_04]: actually I didn't like

[01:56:52] [SPEAKER_02]: let's lower this anvil down from the

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: ceiling where they're setting up

[01:56:57] [SPEAKER_00]: like a Tom and Jerry

[01:56:58] [SPEAKER_00]: situation here that's right very

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: or Roadrunner

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just cranky

[01:57:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Moses it also

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean I know they did try to give us

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_04]: a reason for this

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_04]: but I have a hard time

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_04]: accepting that they have not

[01:57:14] [SPEAKER_04]: communicated directly to Caleb

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Bremboar you know

[01:57:18] [SPEAKER_04]: the real important message about who

[01:57:20] [SPEAKER_04]: how he is yes several

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_00]: messengers separately it's

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_04]: seriously you know even

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_04]: even the Rojim before they were

[01:57:28] [SPEAKER_04]: here I'm new to do that I guess it was

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_04]: the Gondoreans who knew to send

[01:57:32] [SPEAKER_04]: separate messengers but

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_04]: this sets aside the concept

[01:57:36] [SPEAKER_04]: of a song way altogether because

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_04]: it would not have been necessary to send

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_04]: messengers if they were recognizing

[01:57:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that as part of this world they would

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_04]: have just done oh from that great

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: a distance I thought this was something

[01:57:47] [SPEAKER_00]: nearby for

[01:57:50] [SPEAKER_04]: depends on your powers and abilities

[01:57:52] [SPEAKER_04]: but you know we got some pretty

[01:57:54] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah yeah so I think

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_04]: it could have been done or

[01:57:58] [SPEAKER_04]: you know okay had you could head canon

[01:58:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and say they tried and it didn't work so that's

[01:58:02] [SPEAKER_04]: when they resorted to mess

[01:58:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but it does seem rather a

[01:58:06] [SPEAKER_04]: weak

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_04]: method to send

[01:58:09] [SPEAKER_04]: incredibly important piece of information

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah someone who can

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_04]: really mess things up it was not

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_00]: careful it's not great you don't have any

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_00]: messenger pigeons

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: this is not game of thrones this is

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_02]: no ravens in this world

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah yeah

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_00]: alright well fun first

[01:58:27] [SPEAKER_00]: episode only two hours we're like

[01:58:30] [SPEAKER_00]: we could do these quickly

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I love an optimist

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_00]: please I know

[01:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I know I know so we're going to have to

[01:58:37] [SPEAKER_00]: figure out the scheduling for the rest of the week but we'll

[01:58:40] [SPEAKER_00]: talk off air but

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you can expect two more episodes

[01:58:43] [SPEAKER_00]: today the day this comes out

[01:58:45] [SPEAKER_00]: we're releasing them all the same day

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_00]: episodes one two and three separately

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_00]: then there will be a separate

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_00]: lore cast that'll come out

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when we're going to release that

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but soon and that'll be for subscribers only

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_00]: if you want to send in feedback don't

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_00]: forget you can do LOTR at thelorehounds.com

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you can go into our discord

[01:59:03] [SPEAKER_00]: server if you want to chat with us in real time

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you can find links to that in the

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_00]: show notes

[01:59:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can also find in the show notes

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_00]: our super cast

[01:59:12] [SPEAKER_00]: where you can subscribe on a recurring basis

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and get all of our shows or you can get the season

[01:59:17] [SPEAKER_00]: pass for ten bucks flat

[01:59:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and get the one guide to rule them all

[01:59:21] [SPEAKER_00]: plus the lore cast and other rings

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: of power stuff

[01:59:26] [SPEAKER_00]: David you want to do our thank yous

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: actually wait we didn't talk about what else

[01:59:30] [SPEAKER_00]: is happening on the lorehounds network

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and yeah at large

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know what's going on anymore

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think most people seem to be on break

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_00]: right now

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_04]: we're just coming back from breaks

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what Alicia is doing

[01:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: right now so I'll ask her tomorrow

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in episode two probably you'll have an update

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so listen to the end of that

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_00]: episode for another update on Willshift Dust

[01:59:52] [SPEAKER_04]: she and I

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_04]: did record an episode together

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: over the Star Wars right

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah so that one might be

[02:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: for the canon timeline podcast

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: let me ask her when it's going to come out

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: so again listen to episode two if you want a real update

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: listen if John

[02:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I think

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: just for the updating thing

[02:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: it may be useful for new people

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but if

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you've been around, if the listener has been around

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: for a minute they just know all you have to do

[02:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: is wait and there's going to be podcasts

[02:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: by the lorehounds right

[02:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no shortage of us

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: having creativity in things to cover

[02:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[02:00:29] [SPEAKER_04]: oh contraire mon bras

[02:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: yes too many

[02:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: ideas floating around

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: all of our little silly heads

[02:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: indeed I know Aaron just put out

[02:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: a new boys wrap up

[02:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: for season four of the boys on the

[02:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Radioactive Ramblings feed so definitely check that out

[02:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: we have that's the only other stuff going on right now

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: we definitely have an

[02:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Alien Romulus podcast

[02:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that's going to be a review of the movie coming out

[02:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: on the main feed

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think you guys are going to do a

[02:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Beetlejuice

[02:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah that'll be in a couple weeks

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and we do still

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_04]: have our eyes on earth sea

[02:01:05] [SPEAKER_04]: however distant the vision

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it's the far the shore

[02:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: right now

[02:01:11] [SPEAKER_04]: it will be worthy

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: of a podcast

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_04]: alright it's the question of

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_04]: time and schedule folks

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: give me some thank yous David

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: oh this is uh

[02:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: oh I don't like that one

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: no no no we're changing this one

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah that sounds too much like slimy sauron

[02:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's too much that's too much

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: alright what do we got sea breeze

[02:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: will that be better sea breeze

[02:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: let's say alright hold on here

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gotta upload everyone

[02:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: this has been a lovely time

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm trying to avoid editing here so I'm going

[02:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: to flip over and just stretch it out

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: stretch it

[02:01:48] [SPEAKER_04]: well I think the kyrton was the one who brought up

[02:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: the sea breeze

[02:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: oh good call

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: oh much nicer there you go

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to our discord server boosters

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: norls, erin k

[02:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: tiller the thriller, dork of the ninjas

[02:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: duve71, captain gingy

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: 56, Athena Agilea

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: adrian, Tina

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and listu

[02:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you all so very much for

[02:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: supporting your fellow

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: community members and giving us

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: a discord server

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that has extra bells and whistles

[02:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: to our lore master

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: subscribers are top tier recurring

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: subscribers, samaritian

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: michael g, michelle e

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: david w, brian p

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: sc, peter oh

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: patina w, adam s

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: ncm, duve71

[02:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: brian8063

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: frederickh, sarah l

[02:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: garith c, eric f

[02:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: matthew m, sarah m

[02:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: djmiwa, andra b

[02:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: kwangyoo, deadeye jedi bob

[02:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: nithin t, alex v

[02:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: erin t, sub zero

[02:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: erin k

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: dally v, mothership61

[02:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: norls

[02:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: kathy w, steward b

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: jeffree b, elisa u

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and adriag

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you all so very much you are our

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: uh

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: trees, the light of the trees of the

[02:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: valinor these are our um

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: i was trying to remember the names of the trees

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: talperion and

[02:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: i forget the other one

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody tell me

[02:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: hello i'm forgetting too

[02:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: what it's been two hours of

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: podcasting john we're doing you

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: i wanted to say that's okay

[02:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: it was lorlin is the other one

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: thank you god and lorlin

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: is no longer

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: in the world in any image whereas

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: talperion remains in the world

[02:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: is the image of

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the white tree of numidor

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: right now well i was trying

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to you know equate our lormasters

[02:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to talperion and

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: they give us light and energy

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and we couldn't do it without you we couldn't do it with

[02:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: all of our listeners whether you're a recurring

[02:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: subscriber or not we're just glad that you're here

[02:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you everyone yes we are

[02:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn john thank you so much

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: john thanks for all the work and marilin

[02:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: as well absolutely pairing for this

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: stuff and we'll be here tomorrow

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: see you then