John, Aaron, and Richard discuss whether nobles can be trusted and the fate of the rebellion.
https://linktr.ee/cosmerecorner
Schedule for Mistborn: The Final Empire
-8/7/2026 - Prologue
-8/14/2026 - Ch 1-5
-8/21/2026 - Ch 6-9
-8/28/2026 - Ch 10-15
-10/9/2026 - Ch 16-20
-10/23/2026 - Ch 21-25
-11/6/2026 - Ch 26-30
-11/20/2026 - Ch 31-35
-12/4/2026 - Ch 36-Epilogue
Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
00:10 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Cosmere Corner, a recap of analysis podcast for the works of Brandon Sanderson.
00:14 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm John, and I'm Aaron, and I'm Richard, and this is our coverage of chapters 21 through 25 of Mistborn, the final empire.
00:24 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And this episode, we are going to be talking about the caves of Rebellion, Kelsir's ego, and some pretty intense cardio.
00:31 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Great housekeeping updates.
00:33 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_02]: We are making some changes here, so you know, you may have noticed we had a little gap.
00:38 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_02]: in mover posting.
00:39 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_02]: We had a little discussion.
00:43 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_02]: We've decided to make a few changes to make this a more manageable podcast and a more consistent output.
00:48 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to be switching to biweekly podcasts, the same number of chapters, so five chapters every two weeks.
00:54 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that might actually help a lot of people who are not as active readers get into the podcast, so welcome new people
01:02 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is we're going to be stopping the Patreon for now.
01:05 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_02]: We just think it's too much to be lowering our output and then asking people to support us.
01:12 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Support us by leaving us a positive review on iTunes or by just telling your friends about us.
01:17 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how you could support us.
01:19 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So for now, that's going to be that.
01:20 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll still put out some of the bonus episodes we had planned, but we're going to do them for everybody.
01:25 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to pay a lot on anything.
01:26 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is going to be public for now.
01:28 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So.
01:29 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Good news, I think.
01:30 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's going to be great for everybody.
01:35 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is the best news I've heard in a long time.
01:39 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be great.
01:40 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad we're getting back into the swing of things too.
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's going to be fantastic.
01:45 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:46 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to define a victory as we learn in the set of chapters.
01:50 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And...
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to take this as one.
01:53 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a spoiler warning for everything that we've read so far which is just chapters one through 25 of Ms. Born the final empire.
02:02 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_02]: We are here to talk today.
02:04 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody put in this outline obligatory Sasquatch fest.
02:07 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I put that in.
02:08 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I know we canceled the one night because the Sasquatch fest and I think because of that.
02:14 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: What the hell is Sasquatch fest?
02:15 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I took my kids.
02:18 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I went to Whitehall, New York.
02:20 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_02]: which is where they have the annual Sasquatch Fest.
02:22 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_02]: There is an area set apart where people will give lectures.
02:30 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: All day, a marathon of lectures on the existence of Sasquatch.
02:34 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_02]: People will dress up as Sasquatch.
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_02]: They sell Sasquatch merch.
02:38 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: people will have maps up of where Sasquatch is.
02:40 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_02]: There's 173 vendors apparently this year.
02:44 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_02]: They had like bouncy houses for the kids.
02:46 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_02]: They had food vendors.
02:47 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_02]: They had art vendors.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything.
02:49 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It was amazing.
02:50 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, 10 out of 10 would recommend.
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, good snow.
02:54 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to lock that up in here and go next year.
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's worth pretty awesome.
03:00 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's worth a free entry too.
03:01 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It was free entry.
03:02 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
03:03 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
03:04 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I spent money because, you know, you got to get the merch.
03:08 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to get the merch.
03:09 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I get a hundred percent.
03:10 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, my five-year-old can't say Sasquad, so she's going, I really like swastwhats fast.
03:19 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That makes it worth it right there.
03:21 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
03:22 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so Sasquatch is a side, you know, I want to get a big foot forward on this.
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And what's your hot takes?
03:31 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, I've killed you there.
03:32 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So what's your hot take?
03:35 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: My hot take is that this isn't even hot.
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that you shouldn't be in charge of anything.
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you could manage your suit kitchen much lesser of valiant.
03:44 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the good news for you is he's not in charge of anything anymore.
03:47 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the world might actually be better off with that.
03:53 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the Scott we're ever going to succeed under him.
03:55 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how many years?
03:57 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is a point that they make in an earlier chapter, I believe, like he is so impressed because no one's ever had any success before.
04:07 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And Kels here is finally having some success.
04:09 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And he had too much hero worship, he got too cocky.
04:12 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it's a sad arc, honestly.
04:17 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
04:19 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It really is, especially considering how careful he was when we first met him.
04:23 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He was just this kind of scared of his own shadow almost type of guy and didn't want to rock the boat and to see him fall like that.
04:32 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels very sudden, but also it makes a lot of sense for that character.
04:37 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
04:39 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
04:40 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk more about his arc later, but any other thoughts on his set of chapters, Richard?
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's about it, honestly.
04:50 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: My hot take is that this whole password system, your superior officer is can't even get through.
04:55 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I would break on that immediately.
04:57 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's a realistic standard.
05:00 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe if you're in the military, please correct me.
05:03 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's a little bit easier, but I don't know.
05:07 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_01]: If my commanding officer came up or the leader of the whole army, this semi-methical figure said, I'm getting in there.
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna stand in your way.
05:16 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna let you write in.
05:18 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_01]: and that's why the Rebellion would fail if I was a member.
05:21 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, especially he's got, so I feel like at this point he's gotten a reputation for having a bit of an ego already.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to piss him off.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What's going to happen if I piss him off?
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Is he going to kill me?
05:33 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I got the sense that the guy didn't recognize him at first because of it was like, you know, that whatever seeing conditions at the time, I don't think he deliberately kept Kelsey around.
05:44 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
05:45 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I guess he didn't know that the breast of the guys had already died.
05:48 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_02]: But he knew that something risky was going on and he couldn't see who it was.
05:52 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think that was totally unreasonable.
05:55 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fair.
05:57 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do that.
05:57 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be here any hot takes.
06:01 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, I think this book is really starting to cook.
06:05 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we were talking about that before we started the recording.
06:09 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_02]: This book is just like, this is where the action is really heating up.
06:12 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting to the Sandor Lange part, right?
06:15 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the dramatic tensions are ramping up.
06:18 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I really love how
06:21 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_02]: This is where Brandon's writing goes really well into like the actions are resulting in consequences, right?
06:28 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_02]: You had that scene earlier on I don't remember who's the set of chapters with the last set of chapters I think it is in the set of chapters Yes, it is where Kelsey you're kind of just inspires everybody, right?
06:39 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of makes them feel like they have like a god behind them and then
06:46 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It does help, but it also creates this unintended consequence of guessing them up too much.
06:51 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where I go, that's good writing, because you have the direct intended consequence, but you also have ego driving people into destruction.
07:02 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm loving this book.
07:04 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really enjoying it more on reread.
07:05 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I forgot how much I like this book, but I think it's all gonna be just a bang or after bang or section from here on out.
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_02]: the head to keep coming.
07:18 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, so let's get right into it.
07:20 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got the full recap to go.
07:21 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, you want to read the, the lovely outline prepared by Richard, chapter 21.
07:27 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll start now with chapter 21.
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Call in this section the sojourn to the north.
07:34 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey reads through his copy of the logbook on the way to the caves of the rebellion in the north.
07:39 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: and he's greeted by a young captain de mou, de mou, de mou, de mou, got it right.
07:45 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And Kelsey notes that the caves are similar to the pits in which he was imprisoned were marks to the rebels that they have no more power over him.
07:55 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: that night he gathers the rebels to explain that Ian will now be their general as he begins to riot the emotions of the dissenters, provoking their leader builds to fight to move.
08:05 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsier then uses his powers covertly to help to move win and uplift morale of the rebels.
08:14 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked the way they had Kelsier select his victim here, right?
08:20 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_02]: This was, he was like, no, nobody who was too outright.
08:24 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody who represents the growing frustration, someone with a good personality, let's find, I think he was basically like, let me find someone like me, let me find someone charismatic and just take him down a peg.
08:37 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I find it funny, little ironic that he's almost in a way playing God here, despite being so against the God that he and his folks have come to rebel against, just a little bit.
08:53 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That playing God aspect definitely comes back in a little bit later in the set of chapters because a certain someone accuses him of maybe playing God a little bit too much.
09:05 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And he, I mean, we haven't seen like the seeds of it in this chapter when he's, like, as he's helping Demo, he in his head, he's getting really pissed about Bill and thinking that this man should die, even though he's still ultimately here to help the Scott Rebellion, he's just, I mean, he's, he's a dissenter because they haven't really done anything aside from recruitment drives, so like I hit him.
09:29 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I get where he's coming from to a point.
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
09:33 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
09:34 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that these folks are just, they're in need of a little something to pick up morale and Kelsey your does a great job at providing that and giving them a little bit more hope in this really desperate situation.
09:49 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So even though he is playing got a little bit, he is doing kind of what the situation calls for.
09:55 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:02 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about any of this.
10:04 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I like also, you know, ham comes in at the beginning and I think he's one of the more interesting thinkers in general in this whole book, but he's really found himself, you know, more comfortable in this leadership role and that's when Kelsier takes him out of it and you have to wonder if Kelsier had not taken him out of it where he had gotten that good morale and it let
10:32 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: you didn't underneath him, would there have been a better outcome here?
10:37 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Because him, him knows when to doubt Kelsey or and perhaps the lesson here is don't put people in your chain of command that are afraid to question orders and have too much faith in their
11:01 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I really like ham and Ellen and even like breeze just egging ham on as like their philosophies and philosophical debates are always great and then Ellen with his friends is kind of cool too.
11:16 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like Ham is going to be one of those characters that they have to get the casting really, really right like they need some sort of smart me stuck up person to play Ham and it's It could go very, very poorly if they don't get someone who has that right quality of being just kind of an asshole.
11:42 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for Breeze, just give me Matt Barry doing a really like posh voice and I'm happy.
11:49 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen them at Barry fancasts, and I have to say it's one of the few fancasts for a character that I sort of agree with.
11:56 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time I see a fancast, and it pisses me off, like my day is ruined, but this one... You guys, Tom Holland, Chris, Pratt, and Zendaya are glad to see that.
12:06 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna scream.
12:07 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna scream.
12:08 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna scream.
12:09 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_02]: In a bad way.
12:11 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't wanna look at these people.
12:12 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm tired of looking at them, get them off my screen.
12:17 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The face is done.
12:20 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He was good at me, honestly.
12:21 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give him that, okay?
12:22 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That he works on like one real movie.
12:26 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And now he like, I'm not going on this tangent.
12:29 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I?
12:30 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I'm going to go on a tangent.
12:31 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Why are we just praising men who scream on screen?
12:35 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_02]: There is a thing where like if you want an Oscar as a man, all you have to do is yell.
12:42 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I hate seeing, oh, I think that clip of there will be blood.
12:49 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, it's the do, I don't know if the actor is, I can't even think of it really off the top of my head, but he's screaming like, I've abandoned my son, I've abandoned my boy, and it's like, it's all I ever see when some 15-year-old who just watched interstellar for the first time, great movie, great movie, great movie.
13:07 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But some 15-year-old watch interstellar and was like, yep, that's the peak of acting, so I'm gonna bring it in every video about great performances.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:16 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:17 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, anyway, I think whoever plays Celts here is going to have to be really good at talking through his teeth.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know.
13:26 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?
13:30 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm excited for that casting news to come out and I feel like it's not too far away from us now I think it's within the next like year maybe.
13:39 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a man.
13:40 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean storm like season two's already in It has already been my greenlit I guess that's true I saw that that he was already working on the season two scripture He was going to be working on the season two script, which is very early.
13:54 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
13:56 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
13:57 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So he actually said in an interview, he would only want, as far as like big name actors, he would only want Kelsey or to be the big name actor.
14:10 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_02]: He would not want, you know, then to be a big name actor, as far as Ms. Bornrose, things like that.
14:15 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know though, because Henry Caval has said stuff about, no, no, not for Kelsey or not for Kelsey.
14:23 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The Lord ruler hear me out on this one.
14:25 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: He fits.
14:26 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: He fits.
14:26 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I could see.
14:27 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I could see a celebrity.
14:28 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He'd be a more muscular one.
14:32 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I think and I think Cabo would be a good person for that.
14:35 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: He had he and Brandon like have tweeted.
14:39 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: or maybe use on Instagram or whatever.
14:40 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they've had contact in over misfortune and stuff like that and like adaptations.
14:45 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's possible.
14:47 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that feels also like Henry Cavill is an actual nerd.
14:51 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I respect him being in whatever fantasy project he wants to be in.
14:55 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, 100% I think they were so dirty in the Witcher.
14:59 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he knows that they did him dirty in the Witcher.
15:01 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he does.
15:02 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he does.
15:03 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
15:03 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's save our TV talk for another time.
15:05 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we move on to chapter 22 Richard?
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Hit me with it.
15:10 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: One last thing I want to say before we do.
15:13 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't say we're going to chapter 22.
15:14 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
15:35 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: There's always another secret, John, how about that?
15:39 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the proper pronunciation.
15:41 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the respectful way to honor Ms. Born.
15:45 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
15:46 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
15:47 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so now we've got Chapter 22, the interlude at the Renew estate.
15:53 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Vin is reading an excerpt from her copy of the logbook, concluding that the Lord ruler is the whining of Scott in the Cosmere, as Spook comes to talk to her and give her his handkerchief.
16:06 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And he flushes and runs away before even telling her what it's about.
16:11 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: She goes to the library and finds Seizid who explains a bit about Farro kami and the Lord ruler's eugenics program as well as giving her a lesson on the duty of the keepers.
16:23 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He also explains to her that Spook gave her the handkerchief as a way to initiate courting.
16:32 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see if that shakes out or not, I guess.
16:36 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And then she leaves to talk to Doxin about life on the plantations while they're talking, then learns about the important practices of the ability and what they do to the Scott women, which plant seeds of doubt in her about the character
16:54 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, as Beyoncé taught us, if you like it, then you should have put a handkerchief on it.
16:59 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But that ring on.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron.
17:02 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron like it.
17:03 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you can't wear ring in this world.
17:05 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You're just inviting some poor elements or to come and rip your finger off.
17:09 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it's bad time.
17:11 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Bad time.
17:12 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to at least get a broken figure going.
17:14 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the whole handkerchief thing was just so
17:21 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So ridiculous.
17:22 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love it.
17:22 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great little piece of world building and it's five.
17:26 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel so bad for for Spook that he just has no shot with Vin and he's just this little you know.
17:33 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what my boy two or three years younger.
17:37 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know she's she's very clearly not a crack to a 15.
17:41 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think he's 15.
17:43 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're actually closer in
17:48 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So like Loki, I would have rather she accepted it.
17:50 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I know, I know.
17:51 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is another thing, and a brand in his head, I think we've talked to on the podcast about it before, too, is I believe he said, if he rewrote the book, he would have aged her up more.
18:02 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
18:02 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And he is doing so for the adaptation.
18:04 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it was a thing, again, people forget the book is from like 2006, I think.
18:11 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And in that era, your fantasy book needed a teen protagonist.
18:17 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_02]: it was it was very much like a staple of the genre is that you have a teen protagonist hunger games that's more viable hunger games here got her but this book was marketed in part as a YA book i don't think it is a YA book honestly but this book definitely it can be one you know it's i mean YA says a vague thing to it's really just a marketing term
18:41 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Red Rising was marketed as YA and the second and third books are like so, so grotesque.
18:50 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's cool, but it's really nasty, too.
18:53 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, I don't know.
18:54 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we've lost the plot with what YA means.
18:56 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
18:57 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
18:57 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Lost the plot when we started making all the Hunger Games spin offs.
19:01 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's when it really just became meaningless.
19:03 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You might have a point.
19:05 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not watching.
19:06 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't watched anything past.
19:07 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I watch like the, that's the trilogy, I guess, because they turned the third one into two movies.
19:12 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But I watched the, the four movies, that's it, that's it.
19:15 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done.
19:16 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_02]: until you read them all back in like high school.
19:18 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, you guys are younger than me, but they were coming out when I was in high school.
19:22 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and so, you know, we all were all reading them.
19:27 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_02]: They were popping up, absolutely.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, this is fine.
19:32 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So, how are your games aside?
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_02]: What else about this chapter?
19:36 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got, you know, the Lord, really, do you think that this is the whitiness God in the Cosmere?
19:40 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't know, there's some pretty steep competition I think on that front.
19:45 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, there's a particular odious little man that I think might have haven't beat a little bit, but you know, we can get into that another time.
19:53 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
19:54 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The whiner that you are.
19:56 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:56 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:59 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see if that one for the spoiler section.
20:00 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I want to, I want to make a note of it.
20:02 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about the whiniest god in the cosmic air for the spoiler section.
20:07 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
20:08 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
20:08 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
20:09 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I have plenty to say about him, so I'm happy with that.
20:12 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:13 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that the most notable part about this chapter might have been
20:19 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: All of the information we get about for Rukami, for Rukami.
20:23 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Very, very, very.
20:23 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Very, very, very.
20:25 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate that pronunciation, but I'll go along with it.
20:29 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that is, it's got to be some of the most interesting stuff in this chapter.
20:35 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Every time Sazid comes out with a new piece of information or a little bit of world building, I remember getting so excited the first time I read this book.
20:49 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_01]: is super interesting and it's just adds to that idea of there's always one more secret.
20:54 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There's always just something around the corner that's going to
20:58 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_01]: completely change everything that you think you know about this world and change the way that it works.
21:04 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_02]: With Ferra Kemi, I am very into it.
21:07 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The reason I'm very into it too is you have multiple magic systems in this one planet and that is such a cool thing to me.
21:15 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I've never, I don't think I've read a lot of fantasy books that have multiple magic systems that were like sort of intersecting
21:30 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, we talked about it in the pre-show while we were just kind of getting together in whatever, but by Canis is a series by James Eilington.
21:40 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He wrote the Will of the Many books off of the people at home.
21:43 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: If you read those read by Canis, it has two distinct magic systems that are heavily intertwined.
21:51 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They're really cool.
21:52 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I can tell you.
21:54 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's wild.
21:59 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: the way that they interact with, not just like the lore that's happening on this particular planet, but how they fit into the greater Cosmere.
22:08 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_01]: is really cool and I feel like every time they come out with some new information in these books about that, about the magic system.
22:20 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It just makes so much sense and that's what I love about it is it's, when you figure out what grounds these magic systems, what sort of ties them to this world, what gives them power and how they are supposed to interact with each
22:35 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess their origins it just is so perfectly done and I had some theories my first time reading this about where these different magic systems are coming from and I couldn't have been more wrong on my theories so maybe when we get to a spoiler section at some point in the near future I can discuss a little bit about how wrong I was but just theorize because it'll pay off if you
23:06 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like with a lot of this stuff, even if you're wrong in the context of misbornable, say, you could be right kind of with obviously different variables, different gods, different whatever involved on another planet.
23:20 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it could be a different system that works kind of similar there, or you'll see it applied a different way here that maybe has some implications that you can't really figure out yet, but there's implications.
23:36 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and are you two familiar with George R. Martin's three step reveal?
23:42 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I am not.
23:44 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so for Richard's sake and for listeners out there who don't know, Richard, George R. Martin says when he writes his reveals, he does them in three steps.
23:53 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He does first, he leaves a clue where he leaves a very vague clue or set of clues where like,
24:03 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: a very astute observational reader or a re-reader would be able to pick them up.
24:08 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Then he sort of shows you what's going on and more people will figure it out for themselves.
24:18 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Finally he will tell you and he does them at three different points of the book.
24:23 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where everybody will realize what's going on.
24:25 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And so basically, it feels like a satisfying payoff because you were able to figure it out for yourself if you were paying attention.
24:32 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think Brandon does a good job with that with the say's that stuff, especially.
24:36 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_02]: He does that with the way that he, you know, you have Kelsey, you're saying, oh, a fair chemist who's, no, he says a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, Terrasman who's angry is one of the scariest things.
24:47 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_02]: you have him looming over Vin with like super power, apparently, able to get rid of and inquisitor.
24:55 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a very good, and you know, the way he can remember things and all that.
24:59 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I, he, the, Brandon does a very good job showing not telling that before he finally tells you, and this is before George or Martin went on his big, you know, fame where he popularized that whole framework, but it's just good writing to do that.
25:16 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's kind of like, um, it's like a good utilization of like check-offs gone like that kind of writing tech technique or whatever you want to call it.
25:33 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Agreed.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:36 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I also appreciate how anti-lazy it is for him to invent multiple magic systems and sprinkle in those breadcrumbs because he could have very easily just said, you know what, we're going to have Alomancy, it's going to be one size fits all type of thing, but instead he adds these layers of mystery and lost arts to it on this completely separate system.
26:04 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, but still running off the metals, which I think is really cool, just a different usage of the metals.
26:10 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So they're they're linked, but they're not quite the same.
26:13 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Very cool.
26:13 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else on this chapter?
26:17 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think so.
26:19 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I do.
26:20 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry.
26:21 --> 26:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like one final ping pong off what we're talking about.
26:24 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the way that they like he keeps developing the magic systems even like, yes, through that era one books, but even in era two, there's new applications because of technology that has improved or whatever, and it.
26:40 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: uh like you said earlier and it would be really easy for him to just be lazy and like everything stays the same and whatever but he decides to go that extra little bit once guns are involved the existence of metal-based magic powers really kind of changes how guns would be used in that world versus how they're used in the real world and I think that's just another
27:09 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: and how much he just cares about writing awesome stuff for his fans.
27:13 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:15 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, one thing that I'll say is we didn't really explain how fair enemy works.
27:20 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps since we're a podcast breaking this down, we should just go over the basic rules, which is that, oh yeah, the fair chemist will store essentially the power that they want to save in the metals rather than burn the metals.
27:35 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So they don't burn metals.
27:40 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_02]: as in the piercings that that says that has that's those are basically vessels from the store things.
27:46 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So for example, Vin notices that he kept himself with that eyesight for a while so that he could have good eyesight later, right, within Tain I think it was.
27:58 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So they're kind of linked to the way that you would use elementic metals, but they're not exactly the same.
28:22 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Whoa guys did we just shift in the cosmic because we've changed outfits because our recording broke down and we had to finish this another night.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we're back.
28:32 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry everybody.
28:34 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so we went through chapters in 21 and 22 last time we reported.
28:40 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So now we're back from our break and we're here with chapter 23, which I can read.
28:47 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Lady the Let's return to the balls.
28:50 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like the way you phrase that.
28:51 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I need that.
28:52 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that Richard.
28:56 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think about it.
28:57 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It was all, like, I didn't read it out loud.
28:59 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if I read it out loud, I would have thought it.
29:01 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
29:02 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
29:02 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just turn to the ball.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm keeping my eye on you.
29:05 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
29:05 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say Richard to the ball or court.
29:08 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
29:09 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go with court.
29:10 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds fancy.
29:11 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:12 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll go with court.
29:13 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds fancy.
29:15 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_02]: excellent.
29:16 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Vin attends a ball, as her fellow partygoers gossip about current political developments, until the appearance of an obligator shifts the topic to the recent uptick in inquisitor raids on scoff even crews.
29:30 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Vin peels away to find Ellen, and the two step out to the balcony, overlooking a miscloked
29:41 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_02]: and he claims only one third of the Nobles partake, including Ellen's father, the cruel straff venture.
29:47 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Ellen didn't be in disgust the scour, and that they really aren't different from the nobility.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Ellen gives her his handkerchief, and then leaves to talk with his friends.
29:57 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Then leaves the main ball to spy on them, and over here is the group of nobles, mostly heirs or seconds in line.
30:04 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Talk of overthrowing the Lord Ruler before Kelsiro arrives, the two speaking
30:14 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, don't be suspicious, don't be suspicious, they don't, you know.
30:21 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like Vin and Ellen having this little tiff in their relationship is a pretty good place for them to be at.
30:31 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that Vin is not fully bought into the idea that Ellen is, you know, better than other nobility.
30:38 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She still has a lot of those doubts that have been planted by Kelsey here in the rest of them, so it's good to see her act on that and confront him a little bit.
30:48 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
30:48 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do find it very interesting that like they had that he has a more down to earth view of like the sky once he starts getting it.
30:58 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: More like education on how they are and that they're literally just people.
31:03 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That there's no reason for any of this division really outside of like the Alamansy stuff.
31:09 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:10 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think especially because we get that reveal about, you know, the horrible circumstances of what happened with Alan and the scholar woman, you know, we get inside that maybe he's a little bit, I mean, a little bit more than complicit in the system and that.
31:32 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Granted, he is maybe doing something to correct it because he's plotting with all of those other Nobleman and you know minor member members of the great houses to try and do something about the Lord Ruler, but He still did participate in that system.
31:47 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He was very young at the time, but you know, should definitely remember that Hey guys, can you hear me?
31:53 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you hear me?
31:55 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
31:57 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, you can hear me now.
32:01 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What the hell is this?
32:02 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like guys guys guys Because I tried to pause but anyway, it doesn't look like the pause worked anyway So that was great discussion keep going because my wife was in here trying to drop the cat off Because apparently the cat was yelling yelling without being I'm gonna say god damn it don't know
32:21 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Very sorry.
32:21 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'll get a little cat over the little cast on him.
32:26 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Fits.
32:26 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that the guy from the...
32:30 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is.
32:31 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the main part here.
32:33 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if it's civil reforce here, although we've renamed him Fits Mischief.
32:37 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Is Fits Mischief far-scratcher?
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: That's his full name.
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I like that.
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Big fan.
32:41 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:42 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:43 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_02]: He's funny guy.
32:44 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, um, that was a nice aside.
32:47 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm gonna leave that in because I think that's fun.
32:50 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So the cat is here and ready to help us recap the cosmic, um, yes, and it's interesting to see Kelsey or on the side here and being like, yeah, I checked him out.
33:00 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_02]: He's, he's maybe, maybe more fine than the rest of them.
33:05 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_02]: The interesting thing to me is that, and I'm interesting and tragic is that,
33:11 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Ellen is a victim to here.
33:13 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_02]: He was assaulted, but his father had him assaulted as a child to initiate him into this slave state and this horrible system.
33:26 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously not the same way that other people were oppressed, but Ellen has suffered too from the system.
33:36 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_02]: and I think that's important to his character development too.
33:38 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's seen like this is not a good thing.
33:42 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you can tell he does have very genuine remorse over that whole situation.
33:48 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
33:50 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
33:51 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I also thought it was important to note like they I don't even remember what the how they called the obligator over for but they called them over for something like a really dumb
34:05 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_00]: a way that they lowered ruler uses religion to serve to surveil their lives, like any financial interaction, because it was like one boxing was what they were betting over.
34:18 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, I don't know, I thought it was interesting.
34:21 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: As like a surveillance state type thing in the medieval ages,
34:26 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, again, they have to, I do think back to 1984.
34:31 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read 1984.
34:32 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say this year last year, but just this idea of even the people who are higher up are watched closely and unable to break free.
34:42 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very much so.
34:44 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it reminds me a little bit.
34:47 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm currently doing an avatar, a legend of the court rewatch.
34:50 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and that avatar, not blue avatar.
34:53 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, not blue avatar, but it's just what Richard was saying about, you know, everything being counted and all of this, it reminds me a little bit of the sort of blending of that sort of modern surveillance state or like modern technology and ideas about governance with that medieval setting where you are so far in the past, but you are still implementing those oppressive ideas that we would associate with more modern governments.
35:22 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the opposite and I'm going to pull from my son, either bag, there's got to be a jar for this for me, but it's kind of similar with like being empowered and being constantly surveilled where like every conversation he has in the first like two books before he has his own like his own ship that he's in command of he has watched constantly, remarks about it all the time and like it.
35:46 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still a very prevalent thing throughout the rest of the series, and I do like how that does feel kind of like the 1984 aspects you were talking about, John.
35:56 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also the aspect of why is Kelsey or in the crew so good at what they do.
36:00 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's because they have been brought up in this system where knowing how to hide and being able to mask your activities and your behavior from the government is extremely important.
36:14 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's sort of the idea of,
36:19 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_01]: kids with really overbearing parents tend to be really secretive as they grew up.
36:24 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think the same thing sort of applies here where a lot of the citizens of the final empire end up being really good at that sort of covert hidden thing because of how a press of the government was.
36:38 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:40 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally agree.
36:41 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So why don't we go on to chapter 24?
36:46 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard?
36:48 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we got the calm before the storm of ash.
36:53 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelsier and the crew catch up in the hideout, deciding that then is returning to her misborn training while at hand upshipped.
37:02 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: With Hamm and Vin deciding to speak to their contacts in the army, the night winds down, everyone goes to sleep and Vin ponders on how different things would have been if Reen had met a crew like this.
37:14 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The duo make their way to the garrison in the morning and we learn that Hamm supports his family by renting out his pewter in hand strength.
37:23 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_00]: but it means he can't really see his wife and kids because they would draw the inquisition upon them.
37:29 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_00]: After some philosophizing, the two will learn that the Garrison is about to march on the scour rebels and their army for seeing a massacre.
37:38 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's not great.
37:40 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, massacres not great, you know, from Boston to Luther Dell and beyond,
37:49 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's just getting real in this book, I think, and this is getting to a two-thirds point climax, I want to say.
37:59 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_02]: We're heating up the action now.
38:01 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Sandor Lange is about to begin in this book.
38:04 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it like starts in our next group of chapters.
38:09 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:11 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: for sure.
38:13 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I also really enjoyed in this chapter, ham starting to call out, or not starting to call out.
38:19 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's be honest.
38:20 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_01]: They've been calling out Kelsey or for a lot of, a lot of music already.
38:24 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But just sort of doubling down on the, on the idea that maybe you're taking this whole leader of the rebellion, a survivor of hats and thing a little bit too seriously.
38:34 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need to chill out a little with the myth building and get to work.
38:39 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then there are also a bit too worried that he's too focused on just killing nobles.
38:46 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that like he does get very violent about them, and I get worried is coming from, but it's a bit much you need to have some people around that we're in the government to ensure like a transition of power maybe if this works out.
39:01 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that anger is helpful in, you know, getting your feet off the ground, getting things done, but you got to be able to temper that with a little bit of restraint and some very level headed decision making, which Kelsir is not always capable of, but I think he could be.
39:20 --> 39:20 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
39:21 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_02]: He is not at this point, able to make level headed decisions.
39:25 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we're going to see in the next chapter, he has some growing up to do.
39:30 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_02]: That said, this crew is still moving, and things are still developing, and can Kelsey or slow things down enough to where he can get a handle on it.
39:40 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the question.
39:44 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also am glad before we move on to the next chapter that we got to see Vin is more bonded with the rest of the crew.
39:52 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's, I mean, she even thinks that Reen would have fit in in something like this.
39:56 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a really good way to show how much she's grown since the first couple chapters where she just kinda didn't trust anyone.
40:06 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, agreed.
40:07 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she's giving me so trusting that she's trusting people they don't want her to trust, like Ellen, right?
40:13 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, but to credit Brandon, it feels natural.
40:18 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't feel like a and out of character moment for her to trust Ellen, you can see how she gets there.
40:24 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, hey, if these people are actually trustworthy, maybe I can be more trusting.
40:29 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a gradual change.
40:32 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_02]: That and a healthy dose of being a little bit love-struck.
40:34 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
40:36 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_02]: and he's pretty and I you know I did like how he's like well yeah so it was an idiot to not give you a hangar chip before but here's my stupid rag yeah that was a cute moment I was my snap rag oh my god I completely glossed over that in the the previous chapter everything yeah thank you for catching that no you you you you put it in there it was in your outline did I yes you you're better than you think you are I think you should believe in yourself
41:05 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Say, oh yeah, and I had this book thing.
41:07 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm locked in.
41:07 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind.
41:08 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_02]: You got everything.
41:09 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing great, man.
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
41:11 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's go to chapter 25, because this chapter 24 was basically just a set up for 25.
41:15 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, start us off with the Ms. Board's mad dash.
41:19 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey already supplies for himself and Vin to rush to the Rebels A, giving her several large beads of putters so the pair can run with extraordinary speed and efficiency.
41:29 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But the journey will still take over half a day of straight sprinting.
41:34 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The misfortune sky used their misclokes as a false mark of nobility, running through the busy streets of Lufadel with Scott and guards steering clear of the dangerous elementcers, giving us another glimpse at how the nobility can act with impunity.
41:48 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And boy, do they act with impunity quite a lot in this book?
41:53 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the whole thing of this book, I'd say.
41:56 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the whole thing of nobility across genres and ages and
42:02 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_01]: all of it.
42:03 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.
42:04 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, another coin in the jar.
42:07 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Even Hadrian Marlow abuses his nobility.
42:09 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done.
42:10 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Last reference for this episode, I swear.
42:12 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of reminds me of in certain other books, both within the Cosmeream without, you know, this thing about Celtsere telling her to not stop burning the pewter.
42:24 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It reminds me of the thrill in Storm White.
42:32 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_02]: this battle high that people get, this battle frenzy, that when sick goes away, you will not be able to get up.
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And what's interesting is that the, you put it in the magic system, right?
42:43 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a mental physical state of being, it is in the magic system that you're pushing yourself a little extra.
42:53 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we see a few more examples of this throughout, even just the misfortune books with,
43:00 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_00]: certain characters and it does end up being their downfall.
43:03 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Just getting too wrapped up in the the emotion of it without taking a step back and saying, hey, let me look at what I'm doing.
43:11 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me stop for a minute so I don't do something or regret and that it definitely ends with being kind of like a fatal flaw type of thing.
43:21 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pushing yourself to such extremes in any context is just a bad idea.
43:26 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I like that Brandon doesn't include that possibility in the logic systems like you were saying, John.
43:33 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Burn out, you know, one of the things that Brandon's always said is like the, the, what's more interesting about a magic system is out what it can do, but what it's limits are, and here we have a limit put in place is like you will crash if you burn this hot, and, and of course, telling her to fly it, right, like just, they, everything he's holding her up until now he's like, no, do the opposite just today, let's just handle this.
43:59 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they,
44:01 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: they say that it would take two weeks to travel that far by canal and they managed to manage to do that in 16 hours.
44:09 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just pewter 10 and like some steel pushes and iron poles or maybe it's iron pushes and steel poles, either or, I don't remember.
44:19 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
44:20 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what do they find when they get there with your, they find the valley of soldiers and dead
44:27 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Not great in Kelsey are arrived at their destination with been completely exhausted and mentally and physically, but Kelsey tells her to flare 10 just to snap herself back to lucidity and with 10 hand senses, she hears the iron derge of battle.
44:43 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: The two make their way to the top of a hill to be met with the Valley of Scott corpses and a small contingent of rebels on the verge of being wiped out.
44:53 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Then is able to convince Kelsey or that they need to go back to the caves and leave the group to the mass of army bearing down on them.
45:04 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the rebellion.
45:06 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that Kelsey or actually listens for once.
45:09 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:10 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because his daughter is telling him too.
45:14 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:15 --> 45:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:15 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think he, it's, it's not just that she's telling him to, but he's like, oh, she's here with me and I almost got her killed last time.
45:21 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm not going to needlessly put her in danger.
45:23 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if he was alone there, he would, he would have absolutely jumped in and tried to save as many people as he could and then gotten himself killed.
45:33 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like he does have a bit of a martyr complex as long as you think you think you have an order complex.
45:39 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_00]: No, he has a martyr.
45:40 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at him as the driver of Hassan.
45:42 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's got a martyr complex, obviously, but it's it's really shining through here.
45:47 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, or it would really shine through here if he didn't have someone else that he had to protect because of course that's how he views it.
45:54 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do
45:57 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_00]: off-shoot tangent, whatever.
45:59 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I do like that he's starting to have a much more like, almost father-daughter relationship, you know, she's checking on the guy she's interested in, like, it's kind of nice.
46:10 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he didn't ask my permission before he gave you the handkerchief.
46:13 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:14 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why don't you go date that nice boy, Spook?
46:17 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:18 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Damn straight.
46:19 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Spook is the goat.
46:22 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, yeah, I'm supportive.
46:25 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's let Chip Vitten and Spook now.
46:27 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more age-appropriate.
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It is more age-appropriate.
46:32 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, it seems like they're going to fix that in the movie, which is good.
46:36 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's absolutely the right call.
46:39 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_02]: This was a thing in the early 2000s.
46:41 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_02]: They were like, every protagonist has to be a teenager.
46:44 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You can.
46:45 --> 46:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, in fairness, they do
46:48 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_02]: they are more resilient physically in like adventuring and I'm like I understand why you want a young person but like 20 still young you can have a 20 year old a 25 year old.
46:58 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right like they both could have been whatever age Ellen is like he's 21 they definitely could have just
47:07 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm in my 30s, I know what it feels like.
47:09 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't, I don't need to be a protagonist, but like, you know, I don't want to go missing, whatever, you know, elementsing.
47:17 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But, no, yeah, a 20 year old is young enough, Brandon.
47:21 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, yeah.
47:23 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely a product of that era a little bit.
47:26 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately.
47:28 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't blame him, I don't blame him.
47:30 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it was the thing.
47:32 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:33 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Also in this like medieval context, that was pretty normal back in those times.
47:39 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's not get into Game of Thrones.
47:42 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:43 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's also what I appreciate about, you know, I, here's my jar other than talking is the the far-seer books, the realm of the Elderlings, which we referenced before with my cat.
47:55 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_02]: They have the books that are his childhood, but then it makes sense that he's a child and then he
48:00 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_02]: in the second trilogy he's in his 30s and the third trilogy he's in his 50s.
48:05 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like you follow somebody at different points of their lives.
48:08 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's interesting.
48:10 --> 48:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't always have to have everyone be the same age.
48:12 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Have them be the age it makes sense for the story.
48:15 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually agree and I lied about it being my last reference because this is a good example.
48:21 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The sun-eater story, it's, you know, super far future.
48:25 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So the nobility are able to live for like 700 years.
48:29 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Ish.
48:30 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And they use cryosleep to like sleep during space travel because it takes 50 years.
48:35 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So this takes place over like.
48:38 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_00]: a thousand issues and hydrines like 700 and something by the end.
48:45 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I feel like that's also a pretty good way of seeing him mature from like he's 19 in the first book.
48:52 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And then in the second book he's in like his early 50s.
48:56 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the third book I think he's like 200.
49:01 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of ran out for me.
49:02 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it is.
49:03 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:05 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Going to Cosmere references, I'm just going to say by Stormlight Archive, Brandon has fixed this problem.
49:11 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
49:11 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, his youngest characters are like 19, 20 as far as main characters go.
49:15 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:15 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because like Caled and I think is 18 of the start.
49:20 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's older.
49:21 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's like a couple years older than that.
49:23 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Might be, yeah.
49:24 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't matter.
49:25 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter.
49:25 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get it in a couple years.
49:27 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: One day.
49:28 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
49:31 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_02]: So, there's this part at the end, the wholelessness of Scott, and this was meaningful to me because it was surprised me.
49:39 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I forgot about this cameo, someone we met earlier, which I thought was a brilliant callback that Brandon did.
49:45 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So, Kels here and Ben drop into the seemingly empty caves.
49:49 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_02]: To find Captain Demu,
49:50 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_02]: who informs them that he and about two thousand of the rebels decided to stay fearing that Eden had acted too rashly.
49:58 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And Kel tells them to pack and get ready to leave.
50:01 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Kel see your ponders what to do next as he finds his client Eden's head on a pike.
50:06 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Now aware that there were only 2 rebels left out of the 7 he had recruited.
50:12 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_02]: As he ponderes an old scamming menace sits with him and reveals that he was at Lord's trustings, Lord trustings plantation, and we learned it was his idea to help prepare in case something went wrong.
50:24 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Since he can't fight, he and some of the others like him try to aid the fight behind the scenes.
50:30 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Men is believed that this massacre was inevitable, but the sheer fact that they were fighting was what truly mattered, and Kelsier ends the chapter with his renewed in resolved, pushing him onward to his dream of deicide.
50:43 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I like your closing there, Richard.
50:45 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_02]: That was a nice, nice closing line, stream deicide.
50:49 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
50:49 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt very locked in on, at least some of this.
50:52 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_02]: You were really, was a good one, you know, I'd like to saw this.
50:57 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_02]: You were or a farming at the end.
50:59 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, uh, thank you.
51:00 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
51:02 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I love men as coming back because men as was the one who's like, dude, we just can't do anything.
51:08 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_02]: We got it.
51:08 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_02]: We got to stop.
51:09 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
51:09 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_02]: My cat's knocking things down.
51:11 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I keep jumping.
51:12 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, Anyway, he said this was like, we can't do anything.
51:20 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And because we're like, well, I'm going to make you and then get menace like, you know what, just the fact that we did anything the fact we got out of bed this morning is a victory, but you did it.
51:29 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Killsbury was like, that's not what I wanted to do.
51:32 --> 51:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's uh, he's not I don't know.
51:35 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because menace is like,
51:39 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_02]: his acceptance of a small victory, it both deflate him and reaffirms Caladin, right?
51:47 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it gives him a moment.
51:48 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You'd be like, okay, we did something.
51:51 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he's like, all right, but I have to get better than this guy.
51:56 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he, he does realize like nothing is going to
52:05 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't wait to see how he changes that in future chapters.
52:10 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah.
52:10 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is just Kelsey's whole M.O.
52:13 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_01]: for pretty much this entire book is trying to inspire hope and people who are just so beyond that feeling that have never known anything other than hopelessness.
52:26 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Hope is never mere, even when it is mere.
52:29 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_02]: It's what I learned to bring to power.
52:32 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Coming back for season two, it's even three, I'm sorry, it's season three soon.
52:36 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Very excited.
52:39 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I gotta catch it out.
52:40 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you should.
52:41 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's season two was very good.
52:43 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Except there was something in the last episode that I did mock pretty tremendously on the podcast and looking back, I don't regret it.
52:52 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't regret it.
52:53 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, on point to mock it.
52:55 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Fair enough, I really want to watch it at the same time though.
52:59 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_00]: My only exposure to Kell of Brimboard is the Shadow of War and Shadow Mordeaux games, and I know that he's not actually like that.
53:06 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's hard to go from or a farming caliber and board.
53:09 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:10 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The true lore accurate version.
53:13 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not good there.
53:16 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say there.
53:18 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He was probably somewhere between the two in Tolkien's vision.
53:22 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
53:22 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It probably was.
53:22 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
53:23 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We're on the Tolkien jar.
53:24 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get back to Miss Boren, the final empire.
53:28 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
53:29 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
53:30 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like the password does not apply to me.
53:33 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, after making such a big deal about it the last time, absolutely insane.
53:39 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he just really marches to the beat of his own drum.
53:43 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's whatever is convenient in the moment, which honestly, I'll give him this one because the circumstances are pretty extreme in the scenario.
53:52 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So if there ever was a time for Kelsey or to jump in and say, maybe I'm not gonna follow the rules right now, it would probably be this time.
54:00 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:03 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't play them at this one moment, but I'm glad that why do you put that out?
54:08 --> 54:09 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little bit of a hypocrisy.
54:09 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, hey, this is very important.
54:11 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Just not for me.
54:13 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, rules for V, not for me.
54:15 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_02]: This is one of the greatest scavictory in centuries, one of you wrote.
54:19 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's ripped right out of the page, that is what they call it.
54:25 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels really bad to say that too, because it was just like, it wasn't even the professional, like, loot the del soldiers that they be.
54:32 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_00]: They beat, like, a local garrison, which doesn't give me much hope.
54:37 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me feel like they probably could have won that with even less people, and less people had to die, but they won.
54:49 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It really makes you think, does Kelsey or and the rest of the crew have any belief that this army could actually turn out to be something that's going over throw the Lord ruler or is it always just sort of this last ditch effort to try and make something happen?
55:11 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good question.
55:12 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at the very least, they believe that doing this will lead to bigger and maybe more successful times down the line, their mindset is kind of like, even if we're just laying the brickwork for future generations, we're still doing something.
55:30 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Aside from Calcyre, I believe that he believes that he could do this shit singlehandedly.
55:35 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
55:35 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
55:36 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think he's a true believer in himself at least.
55:39 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:42 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, maybe rightfully so maybe not after this one.
55:45 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, he's at least getting other people killed.
55:48 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can draw a line between the way he gasped up the troops in our previous episode.
55:56 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And in the way that the troops get to cocky in this episode.
56:00 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we talked about the first time we recorded, which is still in this episode.
56:05 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think that was all this episode.
56:12 --> 56:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is all in the episode.
56:14 --> 56:14 [SPEAKER_02]: That's so funny.
56:15 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm picturing this as two episodes because we of course take a break But yeah, you can draw straight line from beginning to end of this episode.
56:21 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm actually really glad that we did this group together Yeah, that's perfect It's not great folks not looking great.
56:30 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the dark night of the soul but a last We will be here for the rest of the story.
56:36 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Any last thoughts on this chapter folks
56:40 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think it's a really good way to end a part.
56:42 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually, I do think Sanderson is pretty good at ending parts on like a crazy note.
56:48 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes it's evil though, because I feel like in Stormlight, there's somewhere it's like, I'm going to end on the craziest cliffhanger and then where you're not going to see that character for a whole part.
56:58 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:59 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So aside from that, amazing.
57:02 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, I really liked learning a little bit more about fairer-cummy and kind of seeing the limits of what elements he can do and what elements he can do to the Allen answer.
57:14 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was, uh, I think seeing those limitations is really fun and I, I'm saying this like, I don't know what's coming, but I hope we get to see more.
57:28 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_02]: but you've been spoiled and soon so shall the rest of you.
57:32 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Next episode, we are going to be doing chapters 26 through 30.
57:36 --> 57:38 [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing coverage every two weeks now.
57:38 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This is bi-weekly coverage so that we can actually keep up and have a steady pace along with our lives going on.
57:44 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's been good.
57:45 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good, been good.
57:46 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be on a nice steady pace from now on.
57:48 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_02]: No more Patreon, everything's going to be on the public feed.
57:50 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So just stay tuned, subscribe to us on YouTube on your Apple podcast feed or whatever other Spotify or a podcast that you use.
57:59 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_02]: You find all the links in the link tree in the show notes where you can also find our feeble book club and our Discord server with the lower hounds.
58:08 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget, you can always send us an email to Cosmere at thelorhounds.com.
58:10 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to get feedback in for a feedback episode at the end of the book, so this has been a very exciting.
58:18 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grateful to spend this time with you guys before all our fellow troops get killed.
58:28 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go cry into my pillow.
58:29 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
58:30 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough.
58:32 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Good night, everyone.