You Can See Everything (aka More Wypipo Problems)

[00:00:00] JD, I assume, I hope you had a chance to see it by now? Yeah, I saw it last night. That was sweet. I saw it last night again too. You spent another three hours of your time on that shit twice. Wow. You must love white people. My goodness. It was charming. It was a good event. It was great. It was the cat's meow. Swing on. Can you confirm for me that crab in a barrel is a popular topic

[00:00:29] in black culture? Can you confirm that for me? Does anybody have a raven? My kings are for a raven. This is Ron Dawson. I got three kids with me. Let's go. Hey there, you girls, boys, and non-binaries. We're here today to talk about what I think could possibly be the first documentary to be nominated for Best Picture. It could possibly win. Documentary in quotes.

[00:00:58] There's been other ones though, right? Didn't Michael Moore or something? Not nominated for Best Picture. Really? Yeah. I thought Michael Moore got done. Really? Okay. I thought he did Best Documentary. Best Documentary. I thought he was also nominated for Picture. I don't think so. Only for Columbine? Columbine or Fahrenheit? Yeah. Somebody, yeah. They were only a small handheld device. Yeah. It could tell us. But the point you brought up

[00:01:27] that you actually think is a good one. As I was re-watching it last night, which for some reason you guys are acting like that's such a big deal. It is first of all To watch it again? Huh? To watch that movie? You guys are acting I can understand That's a big commitment. I'm just saying remember it, Ron remember this now when all the issues you're talking about like you know Vision Quest or whatever

[00:01:56] where I'm just watching it once to see it just remember this attitude you know I hope you're that forgiving and graceful you know about it because you're like oh Vision Quest I didn't even want to watch it you hadn't even seen it. I didn't but I think I I think I think Vision Quest is an okay fine show like I don't No I know I'm just saying I'm just saying you had this attitude before you even saw it about I'm sick of Marvel I hate all these down I don't want to watch this whatever but now this one you've gone on and watched it twice I'm just saying

[00:02:27] I'm appreciating your charity of your time so I just hope you extend that to other projects that's all Well first of all It's not a criticism First of all you're mischaracterizing how I was feeling about Vision Quest before it came out Okay Because I liked the trailer I was looking forward to it after I saw the first episode is when I felt kind of eh about it I can't watch this shit Yeah Yeah Just for clarification Okay You looked it up

[00:02:57] Fahrenheit 9-11 Uh-huh Was nominated Well Michael Moore famously attempted to pull his documentary out of the best documentary feature category to campaign for a best picture nomination Okay However the film did not receive a best picture nomination Gotcha He did win best documentary for bowling for Columbine Okay That sounds good He also won the prom d'or

[00:03:27] He tried to pull some okey-doke in the academy and was like no, no, no Yeah I could have sworn somebody said there was a some documentary that got nominated I don't know if it was his or whatever I could have sworn somebody said there's been like one other but maybe not And I feel like this is the kind of you can see everything it's the kind of documentary that the documentary branch of the academy is not going to really be feeling that much I don't feel like No documentary has ever officially been nominated

[00:03:56] for the academy award for best picture And also to do a deuce point documentary question mark Yeah Well that documentary in quotes Yes So when I was re-watching it and part of it I re-watched it was so that I could be prepared I was a professional because I wanted to be prepared You took notes You took notes for this? Right I took mental notes But do share your responsibility as a press man

[00:04:26] now I sent the Drewski clip and he said everything I need to say I didn't get a chance to see it Alright I'm afraid to even ask this question Don't be afraid Drewski Yes Oh shit Who is he? I can tell by the quizzical look on your face The sweat The beads of sweat forming on your forehead

[00:04:55] I mean first of all did you watch the clip I did watch the clip It was funny And you didn't know which one was Drewski He's a bird guy He's a bird guy dude He's a what dude? He's a bird guy Bird guy There's some bird guy with a little kid I mean Little Wayne or something Bird guy Oh You're talking about little You're talking about Birdman Yeah Oh yeah Yeah Birdman Your buddy Birdman

[00:05:25] You're saying Drewski's related to Birdman No Ron No I'm saying you didn't know who Birdman was and you didn't know who Little Wayne was I didn't know who Little Wayne was No you did not You said There's some weird cartoon with the little kid and bird guy I don't know what they are No No You're getting it You're getting it in Wayne's world Okay You're getting it backwards It's me You're right It's me My bad Little Wayne was in the cartoon There was this animated

[00:05:55] YouTube about Birdman and Little Wayne I knew who Little Wayne was I didn't know who Birdman was In the animated YouTube short Birdman was a literal birdman like he had wings I thought he was a birdman who hung out with Little Wayne He got you So I didn't know who Little Wayne was Okay Um I'm Based on the the clip it said SNL so I assume he's an SNL

[00:06:25] No No He hosted it but no that's not his He's not I'm not finding anything online about online I'll have you know Drew or this ski Is he a skier? Is he on Olympic Games? A comedian I've I've like I know him I've seen him Okay I just didn't know his name I just didn't know Okay That's fair Let's not beat Ron up again We got a whole lot to get into The rotund black man

[00:06:54] The rotund black man Yep I don't want to say anything black for another six weeks So dude he said everything he said in that clip was all you needed Pretty much He summarized my feelings Damn but I wish I could I didn't watch it yet What was it that he said

[00:07:23] to pull it up real quick Yeah we should pull it up and play it Can we play it? We can Share your screen Let's see it Let's wait Let's get our stuff out first because I don't want it to Yeah I'll prep it but what was it that he said that resonated with you so much? Just the fact that this movie and Grant look I will preface everything I say with

[00:07:53] I am a fan of Nathan Fielder Yes Period Full stop I'm a fan I think he's a brilliant filmmaker I think he makes brilliant shows The topic of Elizabeth what's her last name again? Holmes Holmes Holmes Holmes Holmes I feel has been and no no fault of Nathan

[00:08:22] I feel like that story has been told we know everything we need to know about this fraudulent bitch that's why her ass is in jail now and I get that Nathan is trying to present a different angle a different perspective I applaud him for that I just feel like why are we continuing

[00:08:51] to give this fraud this criminal oxygen So here's the reason because I think that's a fair question I think the reason why is actually connected to the comment you made earlier about whether or not you can actually call this a documentary because because like when you watch it for a second time or the more you analyze it as a filmmaker I'm analyzing the edits and I'm thinking

[00:09:21] about the edits and some of the edits feel like an edit in a narrative like you wouldn't have like like one in particular I think it's like the first time uh all right spoiler obviously spoiler alert if you have not watched you can see everything we're gonna be spoiling the whole thing but one of the big reveals is that Amanda Seyfried is in this and she uh uh and I think the way they reveal her is pretty cool

[00:09:50] which immediately makes it a narrative in my opinion I think that's I think well I don't think immediately because documentaries are known to do reenactments that's not out of the ordinary no it's not the reenactments it's the fact that this well-known actress who portrayed Elizabeth Holmes right in a movie is now brought into this documentary right it's now gone to a whole metal level not only do reenactments

[00:10:20] but give her perspective it's like on top of metal on top of metal right right right well one of the the point I was gonna bring up is the first time she meets Billy and they get into it at the house we've seen totally orchestrated by the way what them getting into it I won't I won't say orchestrated I have a hard time believing that Billy was okay with her showing up and that

[00:10:50] he claims to not know who she she is which is just like but did he say he didn't I think no no he knew she didn't know her dinghy ass didn't know which is a big follow of course who he was all over no Billy why would she why would she know who Billy is no it wasn't on the phone call no when she said something like are you okay with me showing up right she was talking to Elizabeth she was talking about Elizabeth

[00:11:19] showing up not Billy Billy knew who Elizabeth Holmes was no she she said that to Billy before she showed up at his place you know you mean Amanda yeah she was asking but she was asking because like they were in the car she was asking Nathan yeah she was asking Nathan she said does you know I'm coming does you know I'm going to be there I believe I thought that was a phone call but maybe not

[00:11:48] because they knew about this they knew about the about the Hulu show she claims she couldn't watch it there was a whole point when they're driving to Billy's abode where she asked yeah yeah that was the first time it dawned on Amanda to ask oh wait does he come I'm coming but here's the etiquette that caught my eye actually there are a few things that caught my eye in the editing so after Billy meets Amanda for the

[00:12:18] first time when they when it comes out like Billy's a you know he's a Charlie Kirk supporter and they get into it they do a hard cut to Amanda and Nathan in the car and the immediate thing she says is he is something along the lines like what an asshole or something like that it feels like the kind of cut you would have who was scripted for her to say right at that moment

[00:12:48] whereas if this was a an organic conversation that they were having that the cameras caught right it would even in the editing wouldn't have felt as clean as it did from this interchange where they got into it and then a hard cut to her saying what an asshole you know what I'm saying I think the problem is the editing I think the camera was rolling the whole time but that's the problem with this whole movie is that you are editing

[00:13:18] to an opinion and even if he doesn't think he is no not the fact that she thought he was an asshole it was just because here's how I'm playing it what conversation would they have been having in the car that was organic where she would have said he's such an asshole like that and such a you know what I'm saying I can see that I can see I'm just cutting out a sentence before that like whoo that got crazy

[00:13:47] what an asshole I mean that's possible that's fair I mean she obviously had an attitude about him yes it's possible but I feel like everything about this movie is constructed to elicit a certain opinion or feeling from the audience I mean the way Billy is painted I'm not saying the guy's not an asshole but my god it's like

[00:14:16] to the nth degree where you're just like is is Billy either playing to the camera because he knows he's on camera is he really this much of just a domineering a-hole or is this like or am I watching a character am I watching a performance here like I feel like that I think it's a little bit of both I think it's a little I can't remember where I heard it but I was watching someone I don't

[00:14:46] know if it was an interview with Nathan someone was talking about documentary filmmaking and someone said that even in a documentary you become a different person when you turn once the camera starts rolling you're like it's unavoidable so I think that could I think that definitely plays into it we even saw that in the film because there were times when they're in the cabinet at San Clemente or wherever they're at in Orange County where they would be one way and they say okay well we gotta get ready to go whatever but they leave the

[00:15:16] mics on a couple times the mics on and then their total demeanor would change like I don't know if we should be and they totally switch up they weren't as forthcoming as they were just a minute earlier or whatever time had elapsed because we don't really know how much but it seemed like it was right on the heels of them because they're still talking about the same subject so just that so here's the other scene that made me think about more about what you're saying you do about about it feeling construed and constructed

[00:15:46] which I think we have the same scene which is there I'm curious to see if we have the same thing in mind which and for what it's worth I think it's a feature that he wants you to know or believe that it's constructed like I don't think he's trying to make it come across as a true organically but the scene I'm thinking of is the who's on first scene is that the one you're thinking no no

[00:16:15] the one I'm thinking of is at the end when he's out in the ocean swimming with Elizabeth and I'm just like I mean it's at the very end so it kind of put a button on the whole thing but it's like throughout the movie throughout the film he's hinting at oh does he have feelings for Elizabeth does she have feelings for him is there something going on between them Amanda

[00:16:45] even says it like I feel like you're not being I think she said I so yeah once I saw that scene at the end I'm just like well first of all but you know they set that scene up before right black first of all it didn't even feel like it was Nathan it felt like Nathan's face was photoshopped onto a different body

[00:17:14] because that did not look like his body the first time I saw it I didn't know it was Nathan actually I was like who is this you can't talk his hair is all wet or whatever I saw with thought it was Billy and I'm to JD

[00:17:44] where he says where she talks about going in the water yeah was that the part you talking about JV yeah I mean they they cut they have one or two other times before that because there's one beat

[00:18:14] or or focus in the film about oh and this is to I think kind of protect his own protect him in a way where you know when Amanda brings up the point like oh did you just fall for her big blue eyes and are you trying to protect her because you spend so much time and then it's like you know that's I think he puts that stuff in the film to make to let the audience member know he's aware that that is an

[00:18:44] impression that the film is creating I don't think all that stuff didn't happen to magically fall into he bringing attention to the point that oh if you guys think that I fell for her let me just put this in so you know that I know that I am aware that I could be that you might misconstrued that I fell for her when that's not really I mean

[00:19:14] that's how I read it when I I was like oh this is a good cut because there's all kind of shit they could have put in the film that he didn't I'm sure they have hours and hours and hours so you thought he put that clip in obviously dude it's a documentary they're not just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks it's like that's in there because it's a point that Amanda brings up it's a linchpin to a scene to have a critical scene of him like hey are

[00:19:44] you really seeing this you know at eye level are you kind of zoomed out and in love or something so that's one of the questions you i knew that was it's obvious i put it in the film i had

[00:20:14] flashbacks of me looking out the longingly look out a window and swimming in a water cold water that i wouldn't go you know i don't normally go in because i'm afraid of it he put all that stuff and he built all that up it's very self-reflexive which is another i mean i think we jump way fast into things about this film we should go back to the beginning of this thing because there's two sections to the film like a whole documentary

[00:20:44] and then it totally changes and i'll tell you this well go ahead javon because i've been talking too long i was just going to say i think that you put that scene in because like jd said you're trying to lead a narrative and i'm glad that amanda was in there actually because she all you had

[00:21:14] throughout the movie was basically their side and nathan's side and nathan telling their side when you bring her in you bring a whole different perspective to the whole thing and she comes in and is like i don't know dude i don't know what your what your real purpose is with this documentary do you know what your purpose is with this documentary because it's not just to show her it's to show her in

[00:22:00] a movie theater with about maybe a dozen people right wasn't that many but you mentioned something very important about narrative and he's trying to craft a narrative well unfortunately with nathan fielder he comes that's baggage that comes with him because he always seems like he's on the spectrum or weird and goofy he has all these goofy long stares he'll just he's a master asking a really odd question and then letting it sit there and he knows what he's doing he he

[00:22:30] I mean he's not oblivious to this he'll ask some dumb ass question or some super uncomfortable or get in some weird personal space and then just sit there with that autistic people look stupid I'm not saying that I'm saying Nathan

[00:23:00] I know you're not but I just want to make sure people watch my point is that Nathan Fielder has ridiculous he's a master but it's not pictures of him in the back they're crafting shots

[00:23:30] look at the trailer look at the poster just go look at the poster it's Elizabeth and who's lurking in the background by the time you get to the poster all that settled I'm saying when the original germ of this film he was not supposed from what I heard they didn't even know if don't go to Michael

[00:23:59] Moore or Nathan Field or somebody his presence precedes itself it's like you know when you

[00:24:25] you don't go to him for, oh, I want this in-depth, serious documentary. No, this nigga's going to be lurking in the background, taking penis shots of a dude in the shower, all kind of silly shit that has no bearing or germane as to what we're talking about. But it's like, you get him with it. He's always like, he's, he is the epitome of bullets over Broadway. Woody Allen lurking in the corner. This nigga's always lurking. And it's always, and he does it in a, he, and the way he looks,

[00:24:54] he'll just insert himself somewhere and just look, just look at people crazy. Right. But that's the brilliance of Nathan. I know, but I'm, but I'm saying, but that to Javon's point, that in itself starts crouching a narrative. I didn't know that much about Elizabeth Holmes. And I guarantee when I was in the theater with the audience members, they were, there were so many laughs about Nathan Fielder just standing and looking stupid. Yeah. You never watched the HBO?

[00:25:23] No, no, I did. But what I'm, well, what I'm saying, this didn't come off like, I wasn't expecting that for this film. I'm not expecting an HBO show that shits and giggles and funny. It's like, this is a thing about, about Elizabeth Holmes. I don't know much about her. I know the, I know as much as a general person, she, you know, upsell some thing that didn't work and she got in trouble for it. But it would just, I think more to a dude's point,

[00:25:50] all this stuff blends or lends to the idea of like, how documentary is this? If the, if the, if the puppet masters behind the camera are orchestrating all these things, it starts becoming a narrative, even by the virtue of them just being there without dialogue. Yeah. It's a total narrative film to me. Yeah. So the, the scene I was going to bring up was, uh, like I said, the who's on first scene. And the thing that struck,

[00:26:19] the thing that struck that I thought was interesting was the fact that he was prepared to actually show it because it's already set up. Yeah. It's already set up because I'm thinking as he says in the film, it's one of the most famous comedic sketches in the world. And I feel like if this was a normal conversation, he would have, it would just would have come out of conversation. He would have said something like, you know,

[00:26:46] that conversation you and I had about whether or not the, the device can do this, whether that means today or some point in the future, what kind of reminds me of who's on first. And then she would have said, well, what's kind of what he said. I mean, that's what he said. Hold up. Hold up. My point is he would have been having this conversation with her and he just would have brought it up in a conversation. I disagree. I disagree with what you're saying. What am I saying? How do you think he brought it up?

[00:27:15] He said, I mean, he said that he said, I went away and I thought I was thinking. So I, and also remember, hold on Ron. But our boy who loves to be in the film was also when they showed that scene, he wasn't watching. You know what he's doing? He's watching her the whole time. So for him, he said, this would be great content for this movie. I'm going to watch her watching. I'm going to watch her. I.e. The camera's going to be on me as I watch her watch this film. And I'm looking to see her reactions.

[00:27:43] That's and he's prefaced it by saying, have you ever seen this scene? And then, because what does she want to see? Yeah, I see it. I know it. But he still would have played it for him because I think you want to see her reaction to what. But then he got, he got a solid goal from her react, her dingy ass reaction. Right. But I'm just, I guess the point I'm making is if he, if he had the, so you're saying he had this, he was thinking about it instead of just asking her about it. He wanted to show her.

[00:28:12] Well, it was, I feel like he, he presented it as it was the next night or earlier, you know, something happened earlier that day or the day before. And he said your answer or your, yeah, basically your answer about why Theranos didn't work reminds me of this skit. Yeah. Right. That, and he, and it struck him after he left and subsequently came back, but he probably,

[00:28:39] I'm sure he's thinking particularly with this, the style of film that he makes, he needs content. He needs things. And so this was another bit that worked for the film. Cause her old thing was like, Oh, the device works, but you have to have the right software for it to work properly. And it's like, bitch, you're talking in circles. Like that shit does not work. Okay. Well, the problem was they're saying it could test anything.

[00:29:06] It has to cooperate and this and that. But here's the thing to do. The thing about this product is that theoretically it can work. If they would work on it, keep working on it for maybe in 50 years, it will do that. But right now it only does 12, but they weren't selling it that way. They were saying, Oh, beyond the 12, it could do any blood disease. It could do it. And that's not accurate. But here's the thing in a way, the point she's making kind of makes sense.

[00:29:34] Whereas let's say you're talking to your, your 12 year old kid and he went in, he's upset that he can't hit a home run and you're trying to give him a pep talk. You can do it. You can hit a home run in this moment. They can't hit a home run, but you're letting them know that they have the potential to hit a home run. Hey, you used it. Huh? The difference is. Okay. The different, the reason why your metaphor doesn't work or your example doesn't work is

[00:30:04] because motherfuckers invested a billion dollars. She had a billion dollar company, dude. In Theranos. Okay. Once money gets involved, you got to deliver. You can't be selling a bill of goods. Imagine if, imagine if Steve Jobs came out with the first iPhone. And said, Hey, you can make phone calls on this. Eventually. So hold up. It's just a calculator. But eventually he would have got sued. He would have got a password. If you would have said, this is going to be a phone. This is a phone. Look at it.

[00:30:34] This is the iPhone. Guess what? You can make calls on it. And then everybody buys it and it, and it, it makes no calls. So irony. The, the irony of that is when he did that famous demo, it did not work yet. It was designed. I mean, it was designed for him to do a certain paths called the golden path for him to do a special path to make it look like you were. Now, eventually they actually got it to work.

[00:30:57] And maybe, and maybe Elizabeth saw that and, and thought, okay, well, I can do the same thing because Steve Jobs is her idol. Right. Well, wait a second, well, wait a second. Hold up. Hold up. What? There, but I mean, in the case of Apple, they've got contracts with Verizon, with all the cellular people. They got things that are tapped into this and these people deliver.

[00:31:25] And I'm sure even before we saw the keynote where he is showing the thing working, that will still also drum up more investors into Apple. Apple was already established company. They didn't, they didn't need, they weren't trying to get off the ground and, you know, they weren't getting ready to go public. They were already public. So there's a big difference there with, he wasn't saying, Hey, I have this theoretical because you know what, let me start a company tomorrow with some theoretical shit.

[00:31:52] I can just plop my ass that will be ready in 50 years. I'm just making the point that it is possible where he had, where you, you have a device that doesn't do what it's promised to do, but for a demo purposes, he can make it look like it. Well, Ron, well, let me finish. She was probably thinking and doing the same thing. Like it doesn't necessarily do what we're promising to do. And she thought that within a year they would have something that could do what she promised to do. I have no problem.

[00:32:22] The difference is she lied and tried to fake the results. No, I'm totally here with, I, I, that's where the fraud comes in. And not only that, she didn't make that statement once or twice or dozens of times. She probably made it hundreds of times. So there's gotta, you know, you, and that's like not full disclosure. Like, look right now we only have a dozen blood tests that work that we can verify. It won't, it's not the thousands that I'm promising.

[00:32:51] It's just the 12, you know, and she would have said that all cool. But then again, she's, you know, I can understand her. Like I, in terms of her, which I wish the film would have focused more on, but it, it, it got me to the point of thinking when, when I saw that who's on first scene, I'm like, Oh, she's dingy. She, she does not. I don't think she was playing. I really do think she's. Or is it a performance? No, I think she's dingy. I think she's dingy. I really, I don't know.

[00:33:20] Listen, who could be true at the same time? I think there was performance going on, but I legitimately think that she is that dingy. I mean, here's why, you know what? Cause I'll tell you this. This girl got in the stand. I will tell you this. I wouldn't even. She deserves an Oscar. She deserves an Oscar because in that scene where he shows her the thing and afterwards, she's laughing and she's laughing. We come to find out because she's like, huh? What finger are you talking about?

[00:33:48] I'm talking about the who's on first scene at the end of it. She's laughing and they're all laughing at the end because he goes. But she doesn't know why she's laughing. But she's laughing and she doesn't know why she's like, this bitch needs to be acting in every film everywhere because she, that was the mass performance. Cause she was like laughing. Yeah, it's funny. Why is it funny? Well, I don't know. It's just funny. I think we all knew it. She played that shit great. What? But look, I will say this as well. Elizabeth is on the spectrum as well.

[00:34:16] Now, she might be a very intelligent person, but let's not forget in the HBO documentary, her professor at Stanford, one of her professors at Stanford told her, yes, you don't have a business. Yes. Like you don't have a product yet. You have a theory. Right. Elizabeth was like, well, F you. I'm on approach all these old white men. And they all fell head over heels. Yeah.

[00:34:46] Glonde, blue eye, you know, fraud. And they invested all their money and now they all butthurt. Right. And want to get their money back. But it's like, y'all motherfuckers should have did your due diligence before you threw leads at her in the first place. Like anybody else, you would have been like, hmm, well, prove to me this works. Let a dude walk through the door. Let any one of us. The janitor's room is down the hall.

[00:35:15] Let any one of us walk through the door. Right. Talking about, we going to build a shelter that your boy Jon Stewart was going to build. We going to build a bomb shelter. They going to be like, hmm. Well, show me. Build it first and then show me. Right. Right. Right. And then we might invest. And I rewatched the HBO documentary last weekend. Yeah. And what's his name?

[00:35:44] The nephew of Schultz. I think his name was Tony Schultz or whatever. But the nephew of George Schultz, he was saying how she just straight up lied about what the machine could and couldn't do. Yeah, she did. She did. She did. And so when she was telling Nathan that she had never lied before, I was like, first of all, even if you.

[00:36:09] But Ron, to your point about the little kid in baseball, the answer she gave was like, I tried. She had this great statement where she said, I presented what I believed. I did. So maybe her dingy ass released that. I don't know where to fall on that because as the film, the one thing I do appreciate is as the film goes on to the second half of the film, which really becomes a narrative. Yeah. It's like. I was so.

[00:36:38] What sealed up for me that she's that dingy is that when when she gets confronted at the prison about the money and she's like, I that's Billy's thing. I don't I don't concern myself with that. That's a lie. That's a lie. No. But for me, I honestly I you know what I what it reminded me of.

[00:36:59] Obviously, I was at that point I was fuming in the theater because to me, she reminded me of the same people, same type of people that will vote for a Trump administration. So that their husbands, the little boys, you get jobs and they're not going to worry about anything else or consequences just as long as it's working out for her. And she had total faith in Billy. To to in whatever he does. I mean, she was crying about her this little sign, her little thing, whatever. She couldn't watch it.

[00:37:29] And how that that gesture alone, that photograph ruined her world and her life. But when he puts shit up all over the when she gets put up all over the city, she's like, no, no big deal. Either she's lying to a dude's point. I feel like she's lying. Yeah. Or she just straight. She has cracks. When it comes to social stuff. There are cracks in her performance. So yeah. So question. Say one thing and then it'll totally be a 180 the next time. Yeah.

[00:37:55] I mean, the fact that and I know it was a reenactment, but the fact that when the whole negotiations were going on and Bill was like, we got to get a piece of this. Yeah. This bitch conveniently left the room to check on the kid. I got to go cut the grass real quick. I'll be right back. Now, for us to believe like that shit wasn't discussed prior. Right. It's like, how dumb do you think? That's why I'm just saying. That's why I feel like.

[00:38:23] Why are we continuing to give this bitch oxygen? It's like she is a fraud. Case closed. She's already been sentenced. She's already in jail. Here's the answer to the question. I think the answer to that question. Is she that fascinating? But I don't think I don't think the movie is about her, though. I mean, it's about her, but I don't. The fact that. She needs the subject matter. But to JD's point, the first half is about her.

[00:38:51] Then it turns into this whole different movie. Right. It's about. It turns into what you like to do. Nathan Fielder. It becomes a rehearsal. This is like the third season of the rehearsal. Yeah. Right. You got Billy. You got Amanda. You got Amanda. And then as I was watching it, the music and the cutting is very Hitchcockian, which obviously is. Oh, yeah. As I watch it, I'm like building tension. Yeah.

[00:39:20] It's like this feels like a Hitchcock joint. Even the whole situation with the father. There's a bomb under the seat. There's a whole situation with the father. And he's about to reveal something. And conveniently, Billy comes in and it's like, well, let him say what he was going to say. Right. Right. Right. And then is he lying? All of a sudden, she got raped. You know, it's like, well, motherfucker, like, you didn't want to say that earlier? Right.

[00:39:50] Well, I didn't explain it afterward. Didn't go into it afterward. Didn't go into any of it. I appreciated that. But then again, we don't know what the filmmakers left in and left out. It's like, that's the problem I have with Nathan and Lance. I feel like any father would try to protect his child. Right. And I feel like, again, you making up some shit that is irrelevant to the fact that your daughter is a fraud. I don't think he's making it up.

[00:40:19] What I was going to say earlier. I don't think he made that up. I totally believe that. That shit was so out of the blue. This is the first time we're hearing about this. You think he made up that his daughter was raped? That his daughter was raped? That his daughter was raped? That his daughter was raped? That his daughter was raped? That his daughter was raped? Dude, come on. We didn't hear none of that shit in the HBO documentary. Now, all of a sudden, she was raped? Stop. But- What I was going to say earlier, hold on.

[00:40:43] What I was going to say earlier was, just because someone believes something doesn't mean there's a grain of truth to it. Now, this is not the same type of crime, but OJ believed he was still looking for the real killers on the call. Does he? Did he? Does he? Until he died. I don't believe that shit at all. I need not one iota. OJ- He starts every golf course in America looking for their murders. I get it. But he said it.

[00:41:11] And the fact is, all she's doing is saying something. And people are supposed to believe her? Like, just because you believe the shit doesn't make- No, I know. I told you. I mean, first of all- And look, I'm not comparing apples to apples. I realize that. It's murder versus fraud. Right. It's the same premise in that, just because you believe some shit, I mean- But I don't think OJ really believed- Himmler believed that the Jews should be exterminated. I'm not with you. I'm not with you on OJ, dude. I think that nigga knew- No, I'm-

[00:41:40] Don't think about the crime. Don't think about the crime. No, I'm thinking about him. All I'm saying is, she's as big of a liar as OJ was. Right. Well, so here's my question. That's what I'm saying. Here's my question. And you brought this up earlier, I do, which is, and you kind of see this in the Who's I'm First. I was- I'm on the fence about whether or not she was acting during the Who's I'm First thing. Because I'm trying to think, can you really not-

[00:42:10] That bitch is on Meryl Streep levels. If she was acting out some Meryl Streep type shit, her shit was- She's character with the wide eyes and the blank stare. I know, but she has crafted this over years. But- I have a question real quick that you got- Before we even go further, what happened to the dude that was the CFO? The Indian guy? He got 12 years. That was her former boyfriend. He got sentenced too. So he's in jail. Okay, I didn't know. I didn't know what happened.

[00:42:40] Yeah, he got- He got a little- And he got almost the same amount of time, but he was- He got convicted on all charges. She only- There was like 11 charges. She only got four. He got- He got all 11. He got like embezzlement, fraud. Right. Although they got about the same amount of time. Like he got a few- Yeah, they both got like 11 years. Yeah, 11 plus years, which I thought was odd considering he got twice as many convictions. But- Well, because-

[00:43:09] But I think about the- He wasn't the CEO. He wasn't the CEO. Oh, okay, maybe that's- The chairman of the board. She was chairman of oversight. And the CEO. Yeah, she's basically his superior. Yeah, and that makes sense. But I'm like, how does she even get- I would not- Does she seem like she has any leadership qualities? Because I'm like, how the fuck is she a CEO? Like she seemed to be as hell through this whole thing. It was her invention. I know, but I think- But J.D. I don't see her leading- I mean, that's one thing.

[00:43:39] Wozniak invented some shit, but he didn't lead Apple. It's like- I didn't need to watch the HBO documentary again. I don't understand how they- She's basically leading a team. I have to watch it then because like, watch what I saw of this. Look, she's not very competent. I would let her- I want her to let her be the dodge catcher. Dog catcher. She's not very competent. Hold on, one at a time. You have to understand. She is the face of the product. So she's naturally going to be the CEO.

[00:44:06] Like she's not going to let somebody else come in and run her company that she supposedly invented this product. But I think J.D.'s point, which I can't- In the movie, she does that kind of good. You know, any- I'm not arguing that point. What I'm saying is how the F does she- Is she able to corral and engender an army of people or groups of people to work behind her? To be-

[00:44:35] Because you see, if she's this way in real life, I'm like, I want to give her a Saturday afternoon. She's crazy. You have to realize, dude, once she got the money, people are going to follow them. People are going to- Money attracts people. It does. I just- If she has the money and she's like, hey, I can pay you. Come work for this company. People believe. People believe that Theranos was going to be a success and nobody wants to be left out. You know, you have to- Everyone has the money.

[00:45:04] Silicon Valley. It's Silicon Valley. So everybody's looking for the- I guess. I just, I don't know. I haven't seen the other stuff, but this film, I'm like, wow, this is a dingy-ass woman that I wouldn't follow into a grocery store. Watch the sitcom Silicon Valley and you understand why people- Oh yeah, that movie is so funny. I mean, that show is so funny. That show is hilarious. It is. Every episode makes you crack up.

[00:45:29] But when I think about the who's on first, if she really did not get the joke, even after he explained it, she still couldn't get it. That who is the name of the guy on first? She still seemed to not plan it. I'm like, how do you not- It's an act. But that's what I'm trying to figure out. Is it an act? There's nothing to figure out. That shit's an act. I mean, I'm trying to say I didn't get it. Wait, hold up.

[00:45:56] You think she really did get it and she's pretending not to get it? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying once he explains it, even if she didn't get it initially, once he explains it, it's like, bitch, there's nothing to get. I just explained it to you. Meryl Streep ain't got shit on her. Meryl Streep ain't got shit on her. That was an act. It's all an act, dude. To Janie's point, when they're talking about her and the camera's pushing in on her,

[00:46:23] she has a sense of like she's lost, where she feels like almost you can feel the pain that she feels on not getting it. And where her eyes are almost tearing up. Like she realizes, oh, something's wrong with me. Like there were times where I felt like that at times. Where I felt like, okay, I'm... Who's Drewski? Who's Drewski? So zoom in.

[00:46:52] Ron, don't believe them crocodile tears. These white girls start crying. Hey, that's Ron's kryptonite. Oh my God, we got to help them. We got to save them. Caitlin Clark started crying. We got to save her. Oh my God. All these black bitches are coming for her. It's like... Wait a minute. Who's Caitlin Clark? Who's Caitlin Clark? Ron, who's Caitlin Clark? These white girls start crying, boy. No, he doesn't. Ron, who's Caitlin Clark?

[00:47:22] Everybody want to save her. Wait, stop. Who's Caitlin Clark? I don't need to know if Ron knows this. Are you kidding me? She's not even black. Wow. I would think you would know her. He knows who she is. Wait, now we just need to zoom in on this moment right now. We just need to zoom in real slow. Caitlin Clark. Don't email. I see you going to the keyboard right now. Do not keyboard. Are you kidding me? Put your hands up. Put your hands up.

[00:47:51] Put your hands up. Who is Caitlin Clark? Wow. Woo. Do you really think that she does not know who Caitlin Clark is? Yeah, she probably doesn't know who Caitlin Clark is. She probably doesn't know who Caitlin Clark or Drewski. Right. Or Abbott and Costello. Apparently.

[00:48:21] Oh, man. We just lost about 50 subscribers right now. Oh, man. These people do not know what in the hell they're talking about. I'm with you on the scene, Ron. I'm with you on the. But you know what I'm talking about? Where it looked like she was. Yes. But I was often in the thing. So even at the end, when he goes into the. Even though I know it was a reenactment. It's like just the fact that. It confirmed for me.

[00:48:50] That she's like. In a weird. In a weird way. I think like to a deuce point. She's always been getting. You know, for whatever reason. People are willing to elevate her. And help her further along in her career. You know, especially if you got a Stanford professor. This ain't. This is not business. You know, it's like. Somebody gave her some money. Somebody gave her a ton of cash. So I don't know if it was the puppy dog eyes or whatever or something.

[00:49:21] But she got somebody somehow. And then I also find it. Interesting that she gets in this trouble. And lo and behold, here's Billy. Another rich person. That, you know. Right. Is in the stable to help her out. So, you know. And do. Were you going to share something? I saw your. I got to share. I got to share an image. This is Elizabeth Holmes. To me. All right. So. For this part. I'll describe it to our listeners. But for viewers. Just say side-eye Chloe.

[00:49:50] They know. Yeah. Because they. It's a pretty popular meme. It's like. Huge. That's who Elizabeth Holmes thinks she is. Wow. I'm so confused. I don't know what you're talking about. Right. Listeners. He's showing. We're showing a meme of side-eyeing Chloe. Purple. We have to see the whole scene. The whole video of why she's. Of why it's. Why it's. Because everybody else gets it.

[00:50:20] Yeah. Yeah. All right. And then let's do the Drewski thing. We're so glad you're here. Yeah. It's really important to us that people find out who Liz really is. You know. I just want people to see me as an ordinary person. Can you do that Drewski? Based on what I've seen so far. I'm going to go ahead and say no. You know. It's a little bit of the greatest freakiest vibe. I'd have never seen. Let me see them eggs. Why people do not make no damn eggs?

[00:50:49] Whatever they said this bitch did. She done did that. A gripping story. What? What? Closest close-ups ever captured on film. You being real right now? Always being real. Yeah. Hold up. You sure I'll f*** me? I ain't mad at it. I just.

[00:51:18] I want to try something. Holy shit. You can't. From A24 and could have been records comes. Drew can see everything. There. There's Nathan. This is the prototype of the Edison. And it can run over 100 different medical tests. Okay. Listen white girl. I'm going to say this with all love. Right? This is the most T-moo ass piece of. I've ever seen it before. The lizard.

[00:51:48] Right. What was up with the red town, dude? In a 1,000 part series titled Crazy White Ladies Get Crime Laughing Emoji. And as always, Drewski continued the search to sign his next great talent. I like your vibe, man. What you got? Um, I do biotech and I rap. Let me hear you something. Okay. My name is Billy and I make eight figures. Can't believe I'm here with all my. Whoa.

[00:52:20] Go ahead. Go ahead. Let me see. Come on. I want to hear you. Go ahead. All right. Give him the **** out of it. Wait, wait. Guys, no. And just like Fielder, Drewski used reenactments to better understand his subjects. I just need to find somebody who can truly embody her character.

[00:52:50] Apologies to our listeners, but. Wow. Maybe I'll cut that out for the audio version. That embodies everything I want to say about. Wow. All right. So, do you think she's acting at least for part of the who's on first? She's been acting since her ass was found out. Oh, yeah. That's fair. I mean, like that whole scene in the dropout. She ought to stay in character.

[00:53:19] The Hulu movie where she's trying to deepen her voice to sound like a man. Right. And then she calls and he's like, do you have a cold? And she's like, oh, no. I mean, this bitch is crazy. She's crazy. Well, to JD's point, you have the first half, which seemed more, as documentaries go, more documentary-like.

[00:53:44] Unfortunately, I had to sit through several rounds of people laughing because every time they would cut to Nathan Fielder, people would just start laughing. Oh, the theater was cracking up. Yeah, they were just cracking up. And he wasn't doing anything. It's just him being him. Oh, yeah. Just his looks. Or he would ask a question like. He's always standing in the corner like he's at some kid at some parent, you know, at some friend's house where the parents are fighting. And the kids just sit in the corner like.

[00:54:13] And then they'll hold on forever. Right. And so, I think going back to Jude's point about like, is it a documentary? Why are they making this? I think, one, I think it's not about. I mean, it is about her, but I think it's as much about Nathan, definitely in the second half, as it is about her.

[00:54:38] So, it's a movie about Nathan and his process and Billy and Amanda and Elizabeth. So, I think because of that, that's what takes it to a different level. Because you're right. We've all seen the movies or listened to the podcast, read the book or what have you.

[00:54:58] But this idea of, because if you hadn't seen the dropout or if you hadn't seen the documentary or if you hadn't read the book, you could, or if you're just kind of familiar with it. That's me. That's me. I haven't given her that much time. Like, could you, did you come out of the feeling like, well, maybe she did, like maybe she didn't lie. Like, maybe she really did. She was victimized. Maybe she really was misunderstood. No, I wouldn't say victimized.

[00:55:28] The problem is, you shouldn't have someone who can't understand people read social signs and cues, be your CEO. That's the thing I got. It's like, could she come out and she could totally believe what she's saying. But, and to this point, well, somebody didn't do their due diligence and what they're giving money to. If you're going to get, because what's to stop any crazy person from saying anything? And if you give her money, I'm like, well, you gave her money. Right.

[00:55:56] That's all, you know, it's like you, I mean, so part of it is, I just, I don't know. I just, I haven't seen the documentary. So maybe there's a lot more. I'm sure there's a lot more. But do you come out of this? Do you come out of this feeling like she's missing? There's a good chance she was misunderstood during the trial. Well, Javon has something to say. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I do think there's a good chance. But the problem is there was a crime committed.

[00:56:25] And that's just the whole thing. She said that she could do something. It couldn't, it didn't happen. No, but my investors came back. She defrauded her investors. But do you believe. I don't even know if she. Go ahead. I don't even know if she defrauded them in terms of speaking, speaking to them in lies, but she spoke to them in terms, in whatever terms she thought she understood. It didn't, it didn't transfer.

[00:56:51] She spoke to them in her truth, but her truth just happens to be a lot. Right. And the thing is though, I don't know how malicious it was in the sense that like, like Billy brings up a good point. She could have sold stock. She never did. She could have, she could have made out, which would have really been incriminating, but she didn't. And, and for someone to be in her position in a lie like that, it would seem like that's the end game. I need to get this money. I know we're getting hooked up.

[00:57:20] I truly believe that she had faith in the product would work somehow, some way. Apparently there's a scene where blood explodes. Doesn't that go back to your point, JD? Huh? Doesn't that all go back to your point about she is not qualified to be a CEO? Yeah. All of it. Yeah. I mean, cause when I left her, I was like, you know, this is too bad. Somebody who's on the spectrum and has a really hard time understanding people or reading social cues or whatever got jammed up.

[00:57:49] But, but then, but then I was pissed off because then when they, because then here's the hypocrisy that a dude, you know, mentioned about her flipping 180s. I don't know. I haven't seen the documentaries. I haven't seen the, the, the, the, the, the, the drop off. The drop out. The drop out. But, you know, when she's in prison and they tell her all these things that she was all teary eyed about before about her using her likeness.

[00:58:17] And, you know, she broke down and was in tears about how one little picture ruined her life. Now this other cats got pictures of her all over America doing the same thing. She doesn't care. So it's like, well, what did, you know, it almost feels like because Billy said it's all right, it's okay. So I'm just going to go with it. It just feels like, I mean, people who at the end of the day, it's not, they're not really hurt. They're only hurt because it's affecting them in a certain way.

[00:58:46] Like if, if that picture would have worked, she loved it. You know, like, oh, I had to do a picture for my company or whatever, but now everybody uses it for X, Y, and Z. Well, yeah, cause you lied. Cause you, you know. I guess my question is, go ahead, Javon. I was going to say also the whole thing in terms of when she was leaving prison and still talking about restarting the business. Yeah.

[00:59:11] Does she understand that her reputation in her field and just generally is pretty much shot, but she still is adamant. She's like, oh no, it's going to work. And blah, blah, blah. I was like, what, what is going on here? I don't know, Javon. For people to give her money in the first place. I think that she might have a good case to come back out and if it is going to give her money in the first place, if they're going to give it to her now, they would, that's, that's, I would not, I'll put it this way. I hear what you're saying.

[00:59:40] That's a very good point, but I would not be, I wouldn't bet that people wouldn't. I bet you she could find someone to put money into her laser tech, her new laser tech. They can't like what Billy was talking about. I guarantee you they'll find somebody. The dude who, what else is she going to do? The dude who founded WeWork, he got more people to invest in him after he was. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:03] I mean, and the thing is this, I think it may like to maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe she's just an incredible actress because maybe there's a long game. It's like, cause look, that's a really long game. I know, but I'm just saying, I don't think she set out for the long con, but when she got the trap snared on her, she said, oh, I better play this motherfucker out to the nth degree. And so, cause again, when they get out, when she gets out of prison, I, I don't think it's that far fetched for them, her and Billy to go drum up business.

[01:00:33] They were already doing it. They're already getting investors. To me, it's like she, if she plays that role, like, well, I just didn't really understand. And I don't understand how people talk. I don't understand communication and a lie. I don't know what a lie is. I don't know. I'm not giving it for the money. Yeah. So all that stuff plays into her favor. So I can see her coming out and being like, look, I don't, I went to jail for something. I just didn't understand. The world's upside down. I don't understand. When you say yes, I think you're saying no.

[01:01:02] When I say yes, I really mean no. It's all these, what are you talking about? How is she a CEO? How is she a CEO? So the first time I, the first time I saw this, it had been a while since I've seen the documentary or seen or watched the series. And so I came out of this movie the first time feeling like, oh, maybe I think there's a chance you might have been misunderstood during the trial. Then I just watched the documentary again. I was like, oh yeah, she straight up lied.

[01:01:30] Like there's, there's no, she lied and she knew she was lying. And she treated people horribly. Like people who tried to come to her. She like, she like tried to get them in trouble. Oh, people that came in the company. Her employees. Because they tried to tell her like, hey, there's a flaw here. Like this isn't working. Oh, okay. And she blamed them for like not believing in her vision. And it's like.

[01:02:00] And threatened, and threatened them with legal and. Yeah. Destroyed their lives. She played, she played like she was in West, in, in, oh, House of the Dragon. Like she was, she was straight up being. Like you're not backing me. Yeah. Queen green in this. Oh, yeah. And so, so after I rewatched it again, I, it does make me wonder if.

[01:02:31] Again, I mean, it's hard because I hear what you're saying, JD. She had to be a really good actor to pull off some of the ish she's pulling off. But all she has to, no, all she has to do is believe what she's, what she's saying and believe what she believes. She's got her in that role. She's basically doing method acting. A dude saying she's method acting. She's got her. It's not acting. She's just embodied what she believes.

[01:03:00] I know, but I'm saying a lot of times when people like method actors, they'll, then they have to take a break after they've done a role because they're exhausted. Because what they're doing is what you're saying. They're believing whatever they're, they're forcing themselves to believe in some truth. That is not, that is, but instead of questioning it, you believe in a whole heart of the, you dive in and you just, you're just that person. And she's that person.

[01:03:26] What a dude saying it seems, it looks like she's that person for, she's been that person for years. So it's not acting anymore. It's who she is. But it's still that weird fine line. But like, to your point, Ron, if you're saying you went back, oh yeah, she definitely lied. I mean, cause that's the, the crux of it is she lied. She's in jail. Pete, you know, it's been, people vetted her and I would almost suspect that she would probably

[01:03:55] have the benefit of like the jury of her peers or whatever, having the inclination not to find her guilty. But there was obviously enough there that people did find her guilty. Oh yeah. I mean, for sure. Definitely. And I think she, and I think she lied not in a sense of where she was just some person on the spectrum who just doesn't get people. And she misconstrued.

[01:04:21] Like me, I'm talking about like, she was manipulative in her lying, knowing that she is lying and knowing that she's defrauding people. Even the fact when Nathan asked her, have you ever lied? Right. Even the fact that the fact that you wouldn't just say, well, he, and that he had to explain to her, you've never even done like a little, a little white lie.

[01:04:46] And she's like, uh, I don't think, I mean, I don't even know what you're talking about. Is that in the American dictionary? I don't know. Right. Is that a Webster's? I don't know. That's like when Slick Willie was like the fine. Right. The fine is. The fine is. It depends on what is. I mean, come on. And so, but because of this.

[01:05:12] And that actually hurt her because it, she's, it should have been like, oh, of course I've told like a little white lie. Oh, I'm sick. I can't come through. But she was even acting like that was foreign to her. Like, what do you, what is a lie? What is this word you mentioned lie? I believe I'm going to prison for it, but I don't understand what it means. It's like, how do you, I just, again, I'm like scratching my head. Like, how was she a CEO? Oh, I don't, I don't, the person I saw on that, this thing was not a leader of people. And I agree with you.

[01:05:42] It's hard to believe. Um, and going back to the lying thing, Amanda picked up on something the first time she talked to her on the phone and Amanda says, oh, did you know I was going to be here? And then Elizabeth's response was, I'm not sure if I knew. Yeah. And Amanda's like, what do you mean? Like, what the fuck does that mean? Did you slip your mind or something? I mean, I can understand if it was something that she asked her a question about six months ago, right?

[01:06:12] What did you get at the store in May, um, May 5th, you know, for single mile. But you know, it's like. Elizabeth lives in the realm of plausible deniability. Yes. I'm not sure if I knew. Yes. That's great. That's excellent. So she can always say, oh, I didn't know. I wasn't aware. Hey, she's riding that line. She's the patron saint of plausible deniability. Yes. Yes.

[01:06:41] Wide eyes. Because even, because even then it's like at the, in the prison scene when, when Nathan's like doing this espionage and sneaking all in, I got to hurry and tell her all these things are going on before Billy gets here. And he tells her, she's like, man, you know, come say, come say, whatever it is, whatever. It's like, no big deal. No biggie. Right. I'm like, what? So, and that's when I knew. So either she's lying, which would be exhausting. Yeah.

[01:07:08] But, or she's really like just kind of flaky in that way. Like when it comes to human interaction, she might be really smart, like mathematics and things could be true at once. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like, she can have the book smarts of the medicine or whatever enough to goad people on into investing in her. Enough to fraud people. Yeah. Project. But then can't really relate to people in a way. Plausible deniability. She's, you know.

[01:07:39] So at the, at the end of the day, do you think more people come away with a positive impression of her or negative after this film? I think there will be some people that buy into the narrative that she was a victim of these manipulative men. Right. I feel like Amanda even kind of bought into it when she said something like, oh, I don't really want to bring another woman down. And it's like, no bitch, she's a criminal.

[01:08:08] Like you can bring her down. But she didn't, she said that to do, but she was in this film making all these points against her. So it's like, she wasn't. But even the fact that she's. Agony. Agony. Agony. I really don't want to hear another woman. Agony. Agony. Agony. But where's my scene? What lines do I need to say? Because I'm bringing this bitch down. Just the fact that she says it to me is like, I don't know. I think she was virtue signaling in that part. I think that was more of a virtue signal. Like, hey, I really don't do this normally. I'm really not about bringing other women down, but we're going to take this bitch down.

[01:08:39] I mean, I think she just needs to be upfront about it. But I think it does present that question. Whether it convinces the majority of people. I don't think it does. But that's my opinion. I mean, because I'm not convinced. I mean, going into the movie. I think if you're not familiar with the other content related to her. You could be swearing. Ask me. I didn't know any of that stuff.

[01:09:06] But I think this movie also will prompt people to look at the other content. Yeah. JD, the HBO. I mean, the Hulu series is like eight hour long episodes. That's a little bit much. But the HBO doc is like two hours. Yeah. It's not even that. Yeah. You can watch it like in 90 minutes. Oh, really? There's a two hour one? Yeah. It's shorter than this shit I had to sit through. It's shorter than this shit I had to sit through. Yes, it's shorter. It came out during the pandemic. That was the part of it.

[01:09:37] And it's an Alex. I wasn't trying to waste time on that. It's a. No, it's good. It's Alex. Give me a straight up doc. It's like 90 minutes. And it's a trip. This. Some of the things you learn about what actually happened. Oh, yeah. And what went down with the whole thing. There was another stuff at Stanford is fascinating. Wow. Yeah. Which part specifically when she.

[01:10:05] I mean, when the professor was like, I told her she didn't have a business. Oh, yeah. And when that professor. Oh, this happened to be a woman. Oh, yeah. Was she trying to bring her down? No, she was trying to inject some. Some truth into her life. And one of the scientists they were interviewed. He was basically saying it goes against the laws of thermodynamics for this thing. To work. He was like.

[01:10:35] You. It's. It's. Physics would have to break down for this. It's a great theory. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, it's wild. But I would say this about it. I think the thing that we're kind of missing now, because I told you this point. So are we still giving her oxygen or whatever? Right. But I think that. I think the thing that's interesting about this project is not her so much as Nathan. And his process. Because I think there's more. This is the thing more about.

[01:11:05] Particularly because the second half of the film. Gets more into like his process and what he's doing. What. And how this. I mean, in the beginning you have hints of it. Or not even hints. But you have your little segments of him lurking. Right. You know. And asking the goofy and uncomfortable question. Like even just the eye contact. When they. He'd ask her a question. They'd be really close. Like. Yeah. Are you trying to fight? Like. It's like. They would just sit there. And they had all these shots. So they just. Look.

[01:11:33] He would ask a totally uncomfortable question. And she'd be like. That's right. And it'd be right up in each other's face. Like looking at each other for 15 seconds. It just. It was so much about him as a filmmaker. I think that's the real. Or for this project. You know. I can see why documentarians would be. Like. No. This isn't a. This is not a documentary. And it should be. It's. It's almost like a. A creative experiment. It feels. It almost felt like. I got. What is it?

[01:12:03] Punk. It felt like an Ashton Kutcher punk type thing. Right. Because there's this level of. Even though Nathan will ask the questions. And really try to get to the source. Of what's going on. But. Which has apparently already been done in an eight hour docuseries. Another two hour documentary. Oh. It's like. He's asking in such a way that he's. Trying. He's legitimately. I want to say. I'll say this guardedly.

[01:12:32] Legitimately trying to bring in some. Validity to the questions and everything. But. It's also a joke. It's like we're all in on the joke. Like. That's why the people in the audience were laughing. When he shows up. It's like. This is like a punk episode where. This is what he does. Yeah. This is what he does. This is his shtick. One of the. One of the more awkward. Staring scenes was when. She was. Going off to prison. And they were saying goodbye. And they stood there. And look. Like. Are they going to kiss? Right.

[01:13:02] I felt like they were going to kiss. Yeah. I did too. Totally. It's set up. It's very. Like. If I was standing in front of another woman looking like that. Virginia. Like. What are you doing? What are you trying to do? It's right. It was. It was. Which to Amanda's point. Like. Do you have. Feelings for. And then. And so I had never seen. I had never seen the rehearsal before this. So I went back and I saw all of the first season.

[01:13:32] Which was a trip. Right. It was just wild. But. Some minor spoilers for the rehearsal season one. But. In one. One aspect of the rehearsal. Which I thought was interesting. You know. The concept is. People are rehearsing scenes that they want to do with other people. So one of the through lines is this woman. This super Christian crazy woman. Who wants to rehearse having a kid.

[01:14:03] And so like the second half. The whole second half of the first season. Is going back to the story. And. So one of the through lines is the. The kid. That they. They hire all these child actors. To play different ages with this kid. And one of the. The kid at six or something. Genuinely connects. With Nathan. Who thinks. Because Nathan comes in. To play like a co-parent. And the kid. Who doesn't have. Whose real dad isn't in his real life.

[01:14:33] Bonds with Nathan. In a way where. It's kind of unhealthy. Starts to call him dead. Right. Starts calling him dead. And doesn't know to turn off. The whole pretend thing. But then. It ends with Nathan. Connecting with. The. And it gets so meta. Because then Nathan. Reenacts. His scenes. With the kid. With another kid. With another kid.

[01:15:02] But with an older kid. Who won't get into it. And so like. I think the last scene is. He is. Interacting with the older kid. Who's playing the younger kid. And then. Nathan slips up. And says something like. Because I'm your dad. But he's playing. The mom. In this particular scene. He's playing the mom. Because he's trying to get the. But he says. He's his dad. And then the kid says. Aren't you supposed to be my mom? And it's this deep thing. Where. Nathan.

[01:15:32] Supposedly. Nathan. Thinks he really is now. The dad of this kid. That he kind of bonded with. Where he loses. Character. And forgets to be playing the mom. And it ends. It cuts to black. With you thinking. Well like Nathan really bought into it. But. I don't think he did. I do. No. I agree with you. Like I. We don't know. I mean. Ron. We do know. He did not. He did not. He's not a six year old. That got confused. About who's real. And who's not. I mean. All right. So let me. Let me.

[01:16:03] I don't think he thinks. I don't think. He's been asleep with the tongue. Like. It's easy. It's easiest. No. No. No. No. I'm your mom. I'm your mom. Your dad. I think. Right. No. I think in the moment. The way it's presented. In the moment. He connected with the kid. In such a way. That. He re-embodied. What it was like. Being the kid's dad. Even though he was playing the kid's mom. In that moment. And he was. Like. He was feeling a connection. With the make-believe kid. With the second make-believe.

[01:16:33] With the second make-believe kid. The make-believe older kid. Yes. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. The make-believe kid. It hurts the brain thinking about it. But in that moment. I think. It's presented. Where he. Connected with the kid. In a father. In a fatherly way. Is the point. Right. But they. They have this staring thing. That reminded me. Of how he stares. With. Elizabeth. In this movie. Where he's looking at him.

[01:17:02] Really closely. Yeah. And the older kid is like. Aren't you supposed to be my mom? And then Nathan. Then just stares at him. Yeah. And he gets teary eyed. And then kind of cuts the back. But that's his thing. Yeah. It's like. I don't think he's as off as people think he is. I. You know. I don't. I just think. He. I think he plays on that. I think he knows how he comes across. And how he looks. And so. He gets those moments all the time. Right. And they know how to shoot it. They know how to milk it.

[01:17:33] All the lurking. All the uncomfortable body positions. Getting real close to people. Right. Laying in the bed with people. Getting all up in their faces. You know. Just staring and hugging for. You know. For 20 seconds. You know. Right. I thought. I'll say. One of the other scenes I thought was really telling. Was when the parents were there. Like. There was three days left. Before she had to check in. Turn herself in. Yeah. And the parents were like. Listening to them talk. Because she. They're talking about. 2.0.

[01:18:02] And they're like. Bitch. Don't you know. You're getting ready to go to jail. Like. You tell the mother. Look real nervous. And the father. Like. What the fuck are they talking about right now? She's got three days. Before. She goes to prison tomorrow. What is. What are they doing? You know. And Billy's all. Oh yeah. We're going to do this. And that. And I. Yo. This trick is about to go to jail. Yeah. And they're already working in another business. Yeah. For 11 years. Yeah. I saw an interview with Amanda. Saying that she's getting out this year.

[01:18:32] When. She. I thought she was about to be transferred. To a halfway house. Oh man. And then she might. And then she might get out. It's going to be early. Because she's supposed to be. Yeah. I mean. If it's 11. I mean. With good behavior. And X, Y, and Z. Oh. 2030. When she's supposed to get out. She was sent to 2030. But she might get out in 2027 though. She might get out next year. Wait. She was. She's approved to be. In 2019. Huh? No. She went in 2023.

[01:19:02] That's not. Well. 11 years would be. All right. So she's getting out. She's scheduled to get out. In. In 2030. So they knocked out four years. Yeah. She's approved. And it says here. Halfway house transfer. She's approved to move to the Austin Transitional Center. And early. On August 23rd. 2027. So she'll move to a halfway house next year. Oh wow. But a halfway house still means you got at least a couple years. Or at least one year. Yeah.

[01:19:32] Well that'll be three years out from 2030. So. Um. And then she'll be ready to run lasers. Or whatever it was. Well I think they also included. I think they also included time. Sort of like they did with Diddy. The time. Oh time served. Yeah. The time before she was actually sentenced. They considered time served. I think it was about 12 months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just having to legally fight that case. Yeah.

[01:20:02] Just being on trial. Even though she was outside. It's like. Yeah. Well. Uh. Let's end with this. Do you. Predictions. Do you think this would be nominated for best picture? No. You don't think it'll be nominated for best picture? No. What about you JV? I don't. I don't think so. I don't even know if it should be. I don't. I think the real question is should this. Because when we usually ask that question. Should this be not. We understand what we're talking about. So. Was this film good? But this is such a weird.

[01:20:31] I almost feel like damn. This could have been on Netflix or something. Like. The question wasn't should. The question is will. Yeah. Will it be. Not me. That's my question. I don't think so. I mean. I'm just saying. Should we even have the questions? Like. I think. I mean. I'm just trying to put it into. I don't know what. I don't know exactly what's coming out for the rest of the year. And this is the season. I think it's going to be. I think it's going to be nominated. You do? I do think. Because there's a couple of foreign films.

[01:21:01] I don't think. I don't think the documentary branch. Is going to dig this kind of film as a documentary. For all the reasons we said. And I think 824 is going to milk it. I mean. The buzz in this is so huge. It was great. I mean. It did great this past week. And it came in fourth. Yeah. Like the second week. It's making more and more money. Yeah. And I think 824 is going to do a huge campaign promotion for it. And it'll make history.

[01:21:30] The fact that it's going to make history. Like. I think people are going to want. How salty. With a documentary. It's going to come in. It's like this little documentary. But if it gets nominated. It's really blurring the lines. Yeah. I agree with you. Definitely. So here's the question. If it gets nominated. Could Amanda Seyfried be nominated for. Supporting. Yeah. Supporting. Or supporting. Yeah. She could. I mean. Because technically.

[01:21:59] You have learned so many lines. I mean. For the reenactments. I mean. But she was reacting. Yeah. Reenactments. I mean. So Nathan will be best supporting and best director. Well. No. Because he technically. Well. I guess he did. Yeah. Because like. When you look at the credits. They're not even on. Like. Elizabeth. And Billy aren't even in the credits for. Right. In the. In the movie. But. It's like. Even though they're there. And they're. They take up a bulk. Of the movie.

[01:22:29] They're the subject. So they don't get. They don't get a. Right. Acting thing. So Nathan and them are getting credits for the. They're not supposed to get. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like Amanda's reenactment. That last one she did. Of Elizabeth in prison. She was. She. She got it. She's dope. She was dope. She was great in the dropout. Yeah. Yeah. She was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was a weird meta. Where they were cutting back and forth. To her reaction.

[01:23:00] Reading the script the first time. Right. And I like the fact that she was kind of. Put on trial in a way. In the movie. With regards to. Her participation. In. How Elizabeth was presented. And. Yeah. Her. Her. Her. Reasoning was a little flimsy. Yeah. Where's TV? Right. It's a job. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well. Yeah. We'll. We'll. We'll see what happens. But. Considering that.

[01:23:30] Out of 10 nominations. I. I think. The. General body of the academy. Would love to have a movie like this. Be nominated. I think so. Why? One. Because. It. It really contributed to bringing people back to theater. It. Is. Such. A. I mean. The conversations that it starts. The fact that it's a blending of so many genres. Like we said.

[01:23:59] It's Hitchcockian. But it's a documentary. The editing. I think it can be nominated for best editing. The music score in this. Like. It feels the way it feels because of the music. You change the music. It's a completely different movie. Right. Because the movie. I mean. The score in this feels very much. Contributes to that feel. And so. There's so many aspects of it. That I think. The branches of the academy. That represent those things. Would appreciate.

[01:24:28] So the editing. The score. The story. The whole meta element. Like it's. It's. I mean. It's taking movie making. In a level that is. Transformative. You know. It's. Or. What about. What about my man Lance. Oppenheim. The co-director. Yeah. I mean. You got to mention. His shady past. Oh. I don't think. Thing that Yolanda sent.

[01:24:58] Oh. I didn't read it. I hadn't. You didn't see the video. Where this dude. Dude. Yvonne. You know what I'm talking about right? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. When he came out of. Harvard. Uh huh. Or he might have still been in Harvard at the time. But he. Contacted a woman. Who represents. People on death row in Louisiana. Okay. I believe it's Louisiana. And. He went to a. They had a seminar. Where they were talking to all these people. Mm hmm.

[01:25:28] And. He somehow got a link. To the. Video talks. That they have these people. And made a film without their consent. About it. Oh wow. And they only let him in. Because he said he was doing it for school. Or some. Or some reason that wasn't. You know. It wasn't legit. Yeah. But it became a nefarious situation. Where. He ended up flipping it. And it became like. It propelled him. To heights in the filmmaking world. But he didn't get. Releases or anything. He just.

[01:25:57] Stole people's shit. Right. Oh wow. And so the woman's been starting. A one woman campaign. Like hey. Hello. McFly. You know. We let this guy come in. Or the auspice that he. We were helping him. Try. He wanted to understand. These people or whatever. But he. Flipped the script. And exploited all these people. That are on death row. Without compensating. And not letting them know. What they're going to do. What's going on. To me. That's like more. That's almost more. It's very Elizabeth.

[01:26:26] Let's say it's very Elizabeth Holmes-ish. You know. It's almost as bad as that. It's like wow. You know. So I don't know that he should get a pass. Well it's unethical to say the least. Yeah. Yeah. It's unethical. And then he sold it to the New York Times. Yeah. And they put it in their short docs thing. And I'm like. That's unethical on their part too. Yes. They didn't know how he made the film. And I'm. I mean. I don't know who. I don't know who has objected to it. Besides there's some other filmmakers. But just the fact that he had done that.

[01:26:56] And was able to profit off of it. Yeah. It's supposed to be just a short doc. Just a. I think it's like 10. It's like 10, 15 minutes long. Maybe even shorter than that. But. Yeah. He's. It propelled his career. It changed the trajectory of his career. By him doing it. It's like well. I mean. I don't know. I don't know. All the ins and outs. But I just think it should be mentioned. If we're going to talk about this film. Bring him up too. Fair enough. Especially for what the content of this film was about. Who's lying.

[01:27:26] Who's doing. Who's selling. You know. Who's selling. You know. Yeah. Wolf tickets. Well. I mean. You know. The filmmakers are very familiar with it. On the red carpet. Yeah. I don't want to see. I can't believe you didn't see that Ron. Like. You got to go back in the chain. That you want to see. I will. I will. I'll go check it out. Will any of you. Watch this movie again. When it comes out. Wherever it comes out. I probably won't watch it again. But I'll be nearby.

[01:27:56] Because Yolanda hasn't seen it yet. And she'll probably. Oh. So I haven't really talked to her about it. I don't want to talk to her. I would love to watch Yolanda. I'd want to get her reaction. I will not give this movie any more of my tone. Yeah. I can't. I don't even want to watch the other things y'all told me about. The other documentary. Not even the doc. I mean. I'll take your word for it. What's the HBO doc? It's worth it. Yeah. The HBO one? Is that the two hour one? That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's less than two hours. I'm not doing the eight hour. Eight episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Yeah. You don't need to watch that.

[01:28:26] You don't need to watch that. And I mean. I kind of get. You know. I mean. Just. Again. I just can't fathom. And she must be a totally different person. Like. Like to a deuce point. It's all an act. Because. The person I saw. I couldn't. I wouldn't give her 50 cents. To rub together. I wouldn't give her two nickels rub together. For investing in the shit. I'm like. Who gave her hundreds of millions of dollars. If she's that person that Nathan was interviewing. Well. The person you see in this movie. You've seen a leader. But somebody believed in her. The person you've seen this movie.

[01:28:56] Is not the person who is represented. In the dropout. Or. Okay. Yeah. I love that. Maybe she changed. I don't know. Because that's a radical departure. Because I'm like. I'm like. And I'm not trying to diss. And I know we've been. Going around. This world. Oh. The spectrum. This person on the spectrum. But. When I. After getting done with this. I was. My ultimate thing. Is like. I think she's on the spectrum. She can't read. Faces. Right. And social cues. And. And that.

[01:29:26] And she slipped up because of that. Because she was promising a lot. That she couldn't deliver on. But didn't really fully understand. That's. That's the good case version. That's the. Right. Giving her grace. And maybe this is what happened. But she still got to go to jail. Because she hurt a lot of people. With money that. They invested. You know. Right. But. The flip side is. It could be like a do-sense. Like. She's just in that mode. Where she's. Yeah. You know. She's acting. And she's been acting for years. Because again. I just can't understand how.

[01:29:55] She was the CEO of a company. And. Well. If you're. Who's on first. I don't understand how you could be a CEO. Because the CEO is just not who. It's like. You cannot understand who's on first. I know. Or explaining it to you. That just to me is like. That severe. Social. It was. It was. Yeah. Did not. Understand that. Well. Let us know. If you've been watching this. Or listening. Either leave us a comment. Let us know. Do you. One.

[01:30:25] What did you think of the movie? Two. Do you think. It will be nominated for best picture? Email us. If you're listening. And. We don't know what we're going to talk about next week. Please don't unsubscribe. We apologize for Ron not knowing who Jusky is. I know who he is. I just didn't know. Or Caitlin Clark. Caitlin Clark. Do you think our audience cares about Caitlin Clark? He's a quick study though. He's a quick study. You just get him in front of a computer. He'll Google it right up.

[01:30:55] Until next week. You know what to do. Give us a like. Subscribe. Those numbers are getting up. The numbers are getting up. I appreciate it. Show your friends. Listen to what you think. Until next week. Peace. Peace.