Is nepotism a key part of a good nineties pop anthem? This week we reach for Wilson Phillips’ inspirational 1990 hit “Hold On.” Nichole explains how some songs you love give you different doses of dopamine, at different times and different regions of the brain, as the song unfolds. Mark shows us how this song’s cool use of the bass creates a fun and impactful new type of chord.
Other music heard in this episode: The Wilsons - “‘Til I Die”, Wilson Phillips - “Monday, Monday”, Wilson Phillips - “Good Vibrations”, California Saga - “You Still Believe in Me”, Wilson Phillips - “Go Your Own Way”, J.S. Bach - “Great Fantasia and Fugue in G Minor”, BWV 542 (Michel Chapuis, organ), The Beach Boys - “I Just Wasn’t Made For These Times”, Journey - “Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)”, Terry Riley - “In C” (Buffalo Center of the Creative and Performing Arts Ensemble), Seal - “Crazy”, Queen - “You’re My Best Friend”, Van Halen - “Jump”, Katy Perry - “I Kissed a Girl”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I know that there's pain.
00:01 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you lock yourself up in these chains?
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why do we do it?
00:06 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Knowing can change your life except for you.
00:08 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't let anyone step all over you.
00:10 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yes, I'm not letting them step all over me.
00:13 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it cool if I go back and I edit it so that it's you in three-part harmony saying that's life's really high.
00:18 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So you can just say, okay.
00:30 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I'm Nicole, and I'm Mark, and this is Nevermind the Music.
00:33 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:35 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_03]: We are talking about Wilson Phillips's 1990 Jam Hold on.
01:00 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Hold up for one more day.
01:02 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I love this song so much.
01:05 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I heard that from you early on.
01:08 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I planned it for season two.
01:10 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:11 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it got bummed just as I recalibrated.
01:14 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I put it early season three.
01:17 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would not have a chance to bump it.
01:19 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_03]: But I do like this song.
01:20 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I really do like this song.
01:22 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought of starting with a long bit about daytime talk shows.
01:26 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I love your bits.
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this gives like Wilson Phillips you think of like a Sally Jesse Raphael.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the blazers.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I think mostly funny.
01:33 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Funny you mentioned first of all the bits usually the bits come when I decide episode, but honestly, last main episode journey.
01:41 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the bit might have driven this song like I I was thinking of journey and I thought of the game and I was like that Atari game.
01:49 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I have to find an excuse.
01:52 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I didn't do don't stop believing so maybe, but did you go back and play the game?
01:56 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not go back and play the game.
01:58 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:59 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I would have to get an emulator or whatever.
02:00 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we still have the Atari at my parents' house, but next time I'm in San Diego, I was gonna talk about daytime talk shows because did you know that Carnie Wilson from Wilson Phillips had a daytime talk show called Carnie's that while you said that?
02:13 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd...
02:13 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_03]: You said the blazers, but the truth is she literally had like a Jerry springer type of show like I knew that But I didn't know that I knew it.
02:22 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like deep in there.
02:23 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So I definitely did not know that and What I started opening it up to like oh should we do a whole thing like remember when we did they got the I feel like That's so that keeps on giving is the down under episode right because we keep talking about copyright But also remember the whole bit
02:40 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_03]: of the game show, y'all show the game show, which is the game show that they discovered like the first time anybody publicly called out the the use of cookabura, I just couldn't do it.
02:50 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought I watched like a little bit of a clip and I'm like, I am not going to watch a bunch of day time talk show and just still like 30 seconds of something funny for a 45 second bit at the expense of
03:04 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's like two in the morning and Mark's like blurry.
03:07 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I've like just I'm like we got to record this thing.
03:10 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I got to move on.
03:11 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I have like a little screen.
03:12 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_03]: What I want to talk about instead is just I'm going to open up the question.
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
03:17 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think Wilson Phillips or nepo babies is nepotism the reason they have a big hit?
03:23 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even know that they really were like a nepo really okay so currently when Wilson are Brian Wilson's Brian Wilson's daughter's Brian Wilson from the beat voice awesome vocal harmony family Followed down and then China Philips The third member of Wilson Philips.
03:43 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_03]: It's Wilson's Philips, right?
03:45 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_03]: China Philips is the daughter of Michelle and John Philips from the Mama's and the Papa's.
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Another like vocal harmony band.
03:53 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is like a family business.
03:55 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It seems just everything doesn't end.
03:57 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Are you throwing out your notes now?
03:59 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, no, it's just I'm mad, ugh, ugh.
04:04 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_02]: One, I'm mad that I'm the last person on the planet to learn this information.
04:08 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, obviously eight year old you would not have been.
04:11 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the, you would not have gone.
04:14 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the mama's and papa's.
04:16 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I love them.
04:16 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's listen to Wilson Phillips.
04:17 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_03]: They wouldn't have you and I, which is here in the song as a way.
04:19 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
04:20 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
04:20 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
04:21 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So, and it makes sense of now that you're here, like, type 3 part harmony, beautiful vocal music.
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm mad that they made the choice to name their group Wilson Phillips because of this
04:32 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that that was just their names that they put together, but now it's like, okay, we're actually our names have value.
04:39 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_03]: You want it to be like Stephen King's son changing his name to Joe Hill to like.
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Joe Hill's Stephen King's son.
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Joe Hill is the author is Stephen King's son.
04:47 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_02]: What the heck?
04:48 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_03]: But then there's Owen King, who, his other brother, doesn't abandon the name.
04:53 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And he is like the plumbing business main or something.
04:55 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_03]: What's his name?
04:56 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Charlie Sheen uses my machine's name, but he really doesn't, doesn't.
05:01 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
05:02 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, see, I wasn't even thinking of the name yet.
05:04 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And so the name.
05:05 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that like they made a choice, and it was an actor choice, be like, OK.
05:10 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to call our band not like the blazer brigade.
05:13 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to call her and band Wilson Phillips.
05:16 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So people know that we're NEPO babies and they admire albums.
05:20 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a drag for me.
05:22 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say we can obviously call out.
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_03]: This band is good.
05:26 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_03]: They're really good singers.
05:28 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And having those parents gives you that either genetic advantage or advantage in terms of exposure.
05:37 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Then like it's hard to be upset about like Fernando Tottis Jr. is a good baseball player.
05:43 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He also is the son of a good baseball player Fernando Tottis Sr. And genetically he has an advantage and also was probably just around baseball
05:55 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
05:55 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_02]: The Wilson Phillips win in our good because of who they are and we can't hold that against them like I can't wait for your son I know that he enjoys baseball, but I'm getting really tired of all these baseball references.
06:09 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait for your high Perfection to go to musical theaters.
06:12 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
06:12 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what to tell you later.
06:14 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Ball ball is me.
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, okay.
06:16 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm curious like what are their neville babies are out there that I just have never known about I just found out about Gracie Abrams recently blew my mind
06:24 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_03]: of JJ same one hit thunder some number of months ago did a guy it was Rob Schneider has a daughter and they they spent the whole episode Talking shit about Rob Schneider and it's a really funny.
06:38 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me what the heck song was that?
06:43 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_02]: who knows what those guys, who knows what they're talking about.
06:45 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_02]: They're, I don't know if they're the best.
06:47 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you come on and talk about NEPO babies with us?
06:50 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Cause I think they're the best guys.
06:51 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It's folks, you know, we love their podcast.
06:54 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Go listen to it, but they have it.
06:55 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It's that song, X is an O's.
06:57 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_03]: L. King, that's Rob Schneider's daughter, and so she's like,
07:02 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like her only song and one hit one hit one.
07:04 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
07:05 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a fuck you Napo, baby.
07:07 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Like she might have benefited, but also she and him like don't get along at all.
07:12 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it wasn't hey, listen to my daughter necessarily.
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_03]: It was like
07:17 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe she had advantages having a famous dad or whatever, but like she set out to like be against which is not what Wilson Phillips did.
07:25 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know.
07:25 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I I feel like we're starting off negative, but I think Wilson Phillips, they took the name and they also spent.
07:32 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_03]: portions of their career, very much interacting with their parents' music, right?
07:37 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So after they broke up, Wendy and Carney became the Wilson's, just the Wilson's.
07:41 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And they actually did an album with their dad, Brian, and check this out.
07:45 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a tripoppy kind of 90's version of one of my favorite haunting beatboys songs till I die.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_03]: This is from 1997.
07:54 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not Wilson Phillips, but the Wilson daughters with their dad.
08:21 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it.
08:22 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't like it.
08:23 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you like that song is very creepy and beautiful and it was like when he died, I have that song practically like I planned every day.
08:32 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_03]: But then when they got back together, Wilson Phillips that is.
08:34 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
08:35 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They did a whole album of Beach Boys and Mama's in the Papa's covers.
08:41 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is my day Monday, Mama's in the Papa's of course.
08:45 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_03]: This is, that won't come out in 2012.
08:48 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is probably China singing.
08:49 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_03]: She usually is the lead vocalist.
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the short hair.
08:53 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the bull cut kind of, the short red hair.
08:56 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Trying to remember, back in the 90s, which one is which?
08:58 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_02]: There were three of them.
08:59 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_03]: There's definitely, yeah, we've established that.
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Here, look it up while we listen.
09:06 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Gave me no warning of what was to be Oh my dear mother, how could you live And not take me No China Phillips, you didn't have red hair, I'm conflating them
09:26 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And that actually might be one of the Wilson.
09:28 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to remember which one is the more alto losing voice, but anyways.
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Carny.
09:34 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it is Carny.
09:35 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think Wendy's the high, high singer, and the Chinese one with the blazer and the cowboy hat.
09:40 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And the iconic album cover that you think of when you think of Wilson Phillips when they're on the rock on the beach.
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, yep, yep, yep.
09:46 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And then Wendy Wilson is like,
09:49 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit more demure and petite and like kind of that's like in the background a lot and like how do she's like a potty fan you just got like these boots on in this picture and then the one with the short hair trying to fill up's coolest one very entourage and she's got like a best button down shirt but there's a lot of entourage and he happening here and I'm into it cool so that's cool.
10:12 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Another beat's voice song on that same record.
10:14 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_03]: This one, I just, we look.
10:15 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_03]: We just talked about my Acapella ad music.
10:19 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_03]: They do a sort of pentatonic style overdub their voices multiple times of good vibrations.
10:27 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
10:28 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And then you might go, oh, Connie Wilson sings pretty low.
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_03]: But what are they going to do about the mic love?
10:33 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: What are they doing?
10:34 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm picking up good vibrations.
10:36 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
10:36 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_03]: What do they do with the low cello?
10:39 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm picking up good apprations.
10:42 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: She's giving me text adhesions.
10:45 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm packing up good apprations.
10:48 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: She's giving me text adhesions.
10:51 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: She's packing up good apprations.
10:54 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_00]: She's giving me text adhesions.
10:58 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
10:59 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not doing anything to not, to convince me they're not nipple babies.
11:04 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: This whole album.
11:05 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we're going to get back together and you know what's low hanging fruit to sell albums is doing this.
11:10 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I just, for me, they sing so beautifully.
11:13 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_03]: They sing so much pitch-shifting.
11:15 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_03]: That, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
11:17 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever the, I know carnie sings low, but not that low.
11:21 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_03]: They've like, shit, boom, picking up, good vibe.
11:23 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Just, just let them sing it in the range.
11:25 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyways.
11:28 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Get too deep, negative, but yeah, I think we could say, maybe, to good band, but an Apple baby band, and even it extended.
11:38 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a group called California Saga, which I think has terrible SEO because California Saga is a beach boy's single, right?
11:47 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the SEO, does that sound a California, duh, duh, duh, what is that song?
11:54 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_03]: How's those, that song, go California, so I get anyways, on my way to the water, water that one, right?
12:00 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_03]: SEO, search engine, optimization.
12:03 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_03]: because if you search for the band, California saga Beach Boys kids, you get the song, California saga by the Beach Boys.
12:10 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_03]: But there's a band with Carney and Wendy, my club's son and daughter, Carl Wilson's son, Dennis's son, and Al Jardine's two sons.
12:19 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't have any albums.
12:21 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_03]: This is them doing no studio recordings a live version of you still believe in me from pet sounds.
12:28 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_03]: This is them in 2012, a bunch of beach boys children, but they're adult.
12:58 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I like that so much better because it's not overly produced and you can tell like okay, the live performance here.
13:04 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like beautiful and like talent, there's talent there.
13:09 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think those some folks obviously will still fill up some songs like sound good.
13:13 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't their original sound is not I mean, it's produced like 90's soft rock was, but it's not the the overdubed auto tuning stuff of that one.
13:23 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they have a cool, you know, my son really hated on the production of go your own way.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:29 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:30 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_03]: One of their albums in the 2000s, they have a cover of that.
13:32 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is produced nice and this actually maybe my kid wouldn't hate on it.
13:40 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You won't take it from me You can go young
14:04 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I take it back.
14:04 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to hate on the adult contemporary of it all by me.
14:07 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_03]: The production is pretty.
14:09 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not noisy.
14:09 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty.
14:10 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And Bongo's make everything better.
14:12 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really like trademark of that.
14:14 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's a, it's a timestamp.
14:15 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the trick.
14:16 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you, when you do a doctorate in music.
14:19 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all you do.
14:20 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all you do.
14:20 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a.
14:21 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Just add a hand drums.
14:22 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
14:23 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: How many drum circles have you been a part of in your life?
14:26 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, maybe, well,
14:29 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say maybe one, like that was a first year freshman year of college thing, but then I was in the African drumming ensemble for an entire semester, so but that I played a lot more a go go.
14:40 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay, that's cool.
14:43 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_03]: But you had to be like in the ensemble, multiple smesters in a row before you got love on the drums.
14:47 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I probably drove the ones.
14:48 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
14:49 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think of this group as a one hit wonder.
14:51 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure there is a one hit thunder episode on it, but they actually have five, well, maybe not because technically they're known because even dedicated album.
15:01 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Five hits on this album.
15:02 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it feels like,
15:04 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_03]: 30 years later.
15:06 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really just this song, but hold on was a number one hit.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Release me was a number one hit.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Impulse it was a number four.
15:13 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Your in love was number one.
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, the dream is still alive.
15:16 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Number 12, all from the self titled 1990 album.
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And I got to say, I listened to all of them prepping.
15:22 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_03]: For this episode, I only recognized hold on.
15:25 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot.
15:26 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I would know.
15:27 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_02]: But even this good vibration song, I'm reading it peaked at number 25 on the adult contemporary chart.
15:35 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is a weird scale, right?
15:38 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Like this podcast is charting on the adult contemporary chart.
15:42 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_03]: No, yeah, sorry, it's a moderate hit, but like a hit hit is different, right?
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And their second album had a few minor hits, but this one was their big bang, right?
15:54 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Produced by Glenn Ballard, do you remember?
15:56 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's from Alaska, it's more of a set collaboration.
16:00 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_03]: He co-wrote this song, right, as well as some others, and while we're dropping credits, what was it when one of the Eagles, oh, when we did Africa and Timothy Beechmith was randomly on it, just as a backup guitar back up rhythm guitar is Joe Walsh also from the people.
16:17 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Plus a bunch of, you know, stalwart session guys played on this too.
16:21 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So I need to just talk, I'm sorry, I'm interrupting so much because the coffee is doing its job.
16:26 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_02]: But I went to see Benson Boone last summer and they played, and that's the second time you've seen the second time.
16:32 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned Boone, I'm officially Boone.
16:35 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what they call themselves, but I'm whatever that is, great.
16:39 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: and before you know how like before he goes on stage they like play music in the stadium yeah they played totos africa and everyone the audience like saying along to it and i took a video of it for you i had it was just i was like singing along i was like how do you know the song that's so funny because i think the same week you went to Benson Boone i went to our expandits different
17:01 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's funny.
17:04 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Very different crowd.
17:04 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, by the way, folks, first time I's been in or near a mosh pit in almost two decades, it was a blast.
17:10 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But the same freaking thing happened.
17:13 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_03]: We were waiting.
17:14 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a scob-an called CatBite.
17:15 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_03]: They were really fun that opened.
17:17 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, we're waiting a half hour, whatever, for this very prolly sort of former scob, but post hardcore
17:29 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And then Who did who did who did who did who did who did who do know it was everybody wants to rule the world Wow, and like everybody was seeing it a lot.
17:38 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Lovely huh everybody was singing along and it's this like much more intense scene And I felt like you know, I knew some of the songs they were playing, but the sort of dopamine hit when I heard that chiming guitar and then the synth come in I was like
17:53 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
17:54 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_03]: There's something, a certain song is just, it's just the best thing ever.
17:58 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
17:59 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so glad you're bringing all this up.
18:02 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple things I want to talk about.
18:03 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_03]: To be clear, you brought it up.
18:05 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I brought it up to be clear.
18:08 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm taking credit when you talk about the dopamine hit that's exactly what I want to talk about about hold on Is that how some songs just give you this dopamine hit and it's almost universal and I think hold on is one of those songs that no matter what If you're in your car by yourself, listen to hold on like you're gonna get pumped up
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_03]: let's talk about it then.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's do that.
18:29 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Can I just say one thing?
18:30 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm going to talk about chords.
18:31 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to talk about that's right.
18:33 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
18:35 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Pedal chords.
18:36 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But before that, can you help me identify how 90s is this?
18:39 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Is this because the credits don't show it?
18:42 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Is this some guitar sound or is this a joyous 90s style record scratch at the beginning of the song?
18:54 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's the guitar, that's the story.
18:56 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: You think it's a good song?
18:57 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:58 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But then it's like echoed or something.
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But they don't really play the guitar.
19:01 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It sounded kind of like a wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wickle, wick
19:16 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it's the beach pool, it
19:50 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you want to talk about songs giving you a random dope, but why for this song?
19:56 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we've been talking about the shared notes, right?
19:59 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And what I see on the shared notes in magenta, as we talked about with David last season, the prep notes say pump up jam.
20:07 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this my pump up jam?
20:09 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So why is it my top note?
20:11 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Talk to me about that.
20:13 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And look, the lyrics.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There's an affirmation there.
20:16 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_02]: There's an affirmation of life.
20:17 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_03]: On your last name, make sure everybody knows it when there's signing a record contract.
20:21 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes in teaching, right?
20:24 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_02]: You can love your job, right?
20:26 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And also some days you just don't feel like doing it.
20:29 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And especially, so we work in like 15 weeks and masters in higher ed, 15, 16, late depending on your university calendar committee.
20:39 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So,
20:40 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Usually for me around like week 12, I have a really big dip that like I just can't I'm so tired I'm so tired of performing and like Fall you're you're getting things giving around then though.
20:52 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which can be nice which can be nice you always get a little bit of things out It does because then you know you have to come back so like it's Thanksgiving break.
20:59 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You just had a big push launching your semester everything's cooking the way it needs to cook and like students are good and whatever
21:06 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: You go home for Thanksgiving, you chill, you relax, and you're like, oh, I have to go back.
21:10 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to like, in my university, we have like two weeks after Thanksgiving, before the semester's over, which is torture.
21:17 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_02]: No one's in the mood to do anything.
21:18 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we're all done at that point.
21:20 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So I listened to this song to remind me, you know what, Nicole?
21:24 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Just...
21:25 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that there's pain, but you can just hold on for one more day, right?
21:29 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
21:30 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on.
21:30 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that could apply.
21:32 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a teaching conversation, it's just that's your lived reality of work.
21:36 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_03]: This is, you're right.
21:37 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, um, you're saying that this song does that for you, but not just for teaching, like,
21:44 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It could be any song.
21:45 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It could be any job.
21:46 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Any job that's just tough to get through.
21:48 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Or like anything, like, you know, I know that there's pain.
21:51 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you lock yourself up in these chains?
21:53 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why do we do it?
21:55 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_02]: No one can change your life except for you.
21:57 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't let anyone step all over you.
21:59 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yes, I'm not letting them step all over me.
22:02 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it cool if I go back and I edit it so that it's you and three-part harmonies?
22:06 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
22:06 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_03]: That's really nice.
22:07 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
22:09 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so you want to talk about, like, how and why and what's happening chemically or how and how and so that's not the end of your bid.
22:17 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not the end of my bid, that's just what we're trying to handle to the bid.
22:21 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
22:21 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I was thinking about pedal tones because I've made a commitment to pre-prep and season three.
22:28 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Because you checked this spreadsheet.
22:30 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I checked pedal touch.
22:31 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And you probably don't know what that means.
22:33 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I researched, I do know what it means, but I need you to explain it to me because I don't understand it, because my brain is too small.
22:39 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_02]: But I know that a pedal tone is great, but I'm just trying to give you a close-out here.
22:47 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_02]: is like a sustained tone and the usually in the base that holds steady while the harmony of above it changes.
22:53 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
22:54 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, see you next week.
22:55 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:57 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And the song does it.
22:58 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what it is.
23:00 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of keeps you.
23:02 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's like the definition, right?
23:03 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_02]: But what it does for me and I never realized it is it kind of keeps me on the edge that like keeps sustaining me and doesn't really
23:14 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_02]: to like have a release until the end when it's like kind of some like it has more of like a power ballad feel for me at the end.
23:20 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_02]: You can really like sing along.
23:23 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was interested in it.
23:23 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Can I just say if anything, what you just described, does that moment happen here?
23:35 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_03]: The big Acapella.
23:36 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
23:37 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just like, yeah, it's like I find that's like kind of
23:40 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not just grinding anymore.
23:42 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I can finally, like, I'm here.
23:43 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I've arrived at the affirmation.
23:45 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I can feel it and internalize it.
23:47 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was really interested.
23:49 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: This song has always done that for me.
23:51 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm learning a little bit preliminary research on pedal tones and like, huh, that's probably why.
23:57 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Because the music is like keeping me on one plane.
24:01 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there must be some shift that I feel this release and that is when I like feel happy.
24:05 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, all right, what's going on in my brain in the moment?
24:09 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Not to spoil what I'm going to talk about, but in a weird way, it's backwards because what the pedal tone does is it keeps you on one harmony, but then the dramatic moment happens when you leave it, which is what I'm going to show later.
24:26 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So like that moment is a moment of stasis
24:29 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And then when you hold on, then boom, the court's shift.
24:33 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And that moment is suddenly striking.
24:35 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not even the pedal.
24:37 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the break from the pedal that kind of gives us a feeling.
24:39 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the change, like, allows our minds to shift.
24:41 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So the lack of change allows the change to stand out.
24:45 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm going to talk about.
24:46 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was really interested on what's happening in my brain in that moment.
24:51 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:51 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that with the neurotransmitter, the chemical that's giving me that feeling is dopamine.
24:57 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like a reward whenever I hear this song.
25:00 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm affirmed and there's some, there's some things like being put into me.
25:04 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is this like dopamine feeling.
25:07 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So I read a study.
25:10 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to shout out you always shout out authors and writers here.
25:13 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm shouting out a sell-in-pour and their colleagues working at McGill University, use pet scans, and FMRIs, which is like scans how we we can look at our brains for our scans.
25:25 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_02]: to track dopamine while people listen to music that gave them the chills.
25:29 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's thinking of like music giving you the chills and music that like they have a physiology around.
25:34 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Like somebody, they may be asked them what songs give you this feeling and therefore.
25:38 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like for me, they would play the song, right?
25:40 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
25:41 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And they found that the dopamine release is the same reward circuit that's involved in food and sex and drugs, which we know, we know that all of this is connected.
25:52 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_02]: But there were actually two separate dopamine peaks in the brain and two different regions.
25:58 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was, sorry, the chills is like drugs filling blood vessels or your nerves or whatever in that moment.
26:04 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Essentially, yeah.
26:05 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
26:05 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cool.
26:05 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah,
26:08 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_03]: like Ivy hooking up like good feeling.
26:11 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like Ivy hooking up good feelings or not even good feelings, but any feelings of a rousal and remember previous episodes we talked about how a rousal and in psychology doesn't just mean good feelings to can meet any so you might get the chills when like you feel a ghost near you.
26:26 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_03]: or you're pushed to beat in any way you want it by journey.
26:29 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, anyway, you can get the chills.
26:32 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So they noticed that there were like two peaks of dopamine.
26:36 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
26:37 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: But they were in two different regions of your brain.
26:41 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_02]: One was anticipatory.
26:43 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you, um, and that's like, like you're getting it, you know it's happening.
26:47 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_03]: The big breakdowns about to happen.
26:48 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
26:49 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_02]: There's an area of your brain that's tied to anticipation and prediction.
26:53 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
26:54 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's an area of your brain that's tied to the payoff.
26:58 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So they both give you the pleasure drug.
27:01 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: They both give you the pleasure, but for different reasons, and a different time.
27:04 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_03]: That's so, I think we've talked about that before, like so much of a song that you love for me is kind of being able to sing it in your head, to know what's about to happen, to get hyped for the section that's about to happen, not just what you're hearing in the exact moment.
27:19 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why form is important, right?
27:20 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to structure your piece so people can follow it.
27:22 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you know about brain science, you can manipulate that.
27:25 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you can say, okay, in this region of this part of the song, I'm going to focus on stimulating the conduit nucleus, which is tied to anticipation.
27:35 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, for at the big payoff when I switch keys, I'm really going to hit that nucleus of Cummins hard.
27:42 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's funny because you've talked about obviously like, oh, well, how many people are doing this consciously when they're...
27:47 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_03]: was Wilson Phillips and Glenn Ballard actually thinking, oh, I'm doing pedal chords or whatever.
27:52 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we've asked that question, but my question is like, because the answer is yes, sometimes people are constantly using these, you know, theoretical devices or whatever.
28:01 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: But is there like the extra layer where like, oh, yes, this person is using these tricks?
28:05 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_03]: informed by psycho acoustics and things like that.
28:09 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this person is using this court because they know that 70% of neurotypical adults will experience a dopamine hit if you.
28:18 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if people are.
28:19 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if people are.
28:19 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if people are.
28:20 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like awesome and also terrible.
28:21 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_02]: You know who's probably doing that is AI.
28:23 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_03]: AI.
28:23 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
28:24 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet you you could.
28:25 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Breaking rust is using neurodata.
28:28 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_02]: If you were like a bad witch, I bet you could use AI to say, like, write me a song that plays with this, this is not theory, like we know this to be true.
28:39 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:39 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This has been a research and supported with a research and repeated and validated.
28:44 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Like we know it's true.
28:46 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you could have a, I say like bring me a song that plays with the anticipation and arrival dopamine circuits, which kind of messed up, but I think good musicians are just doing that intuitively and that's the human element here.
29:00 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is really notable because it means that your brain is treating waiting for the musical resolution as its own separate rewarding event then like getting to the resolution.
29:12 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And when we talk about this song, like it's not like the build up is a big part of the song.
29:17 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you live in the build up for most of this tune.
29:21 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you switch over to this big release moment.
29:24 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this matters for pump-up songs specifically because you wanna like sit, I don't wanna use the word forplay because that's gross, but like you sit in this like anticipatory moment then the longer you sit there, the bigger the payoff is.
29:41 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so the longer you hang out in that kind of purgatory of a space in your brain, you kind of like hydrate this dopamine to allow for a bigger payoff when you finally get there.
29:56 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and a familiar song does this because when you first listen to it, your brain already has this like predictive model built in, but then when you listen to it over and over and over and over again, you like you know what's going to happen for your primed for more, and then it becomes intentional, it becomes like almost like a self rewarding thing like I know that if I need to get pumped up, I'm going to listen to this song because in the past it has pumped me up, right.
30:24 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_02]: just other songs like that for me and they're it's not universal like this song is my pump up jam for teaching but as is Michael Jackson's man in the mirror as is Kulio's gangstas paradise which is weird but like it's a pump up song for me for teaching I don't know why because I I would say both all three of those songs
30:43 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_03]: you could also describe to some extent is having and themic courses and I actually think I want to talk about anthems later in some future season maybe but this song also it's a little wordy it has a lot of words but it's like very much you want to sing along with certain parts that man in the mirror has certainly the hook of gangster's paradise has that and i think
31:06 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that means those moments are the moments of release, right?
31:10 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:10 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_03]: You building up to then hold on for one more day, right?
31:16 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
31:17 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_03]: That moment, right?
31:18 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_03]: That is really satisfying.
31:20 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's fascinating that it's separate.
31:22 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_03]: The build-up is separate from the release.
31:25 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_03]: That because obviously there are two parts, but I think over them is one.
31:29 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_03]: feed, but actually they're fueling different parts of the brain.
31:31 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_03]: That's really cool.
31:33 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I almost have that like we're wasting it on this one, but like I'm sure there's a song that we could be doing where the buildup is absolutely essential to.
31:42 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I think their this song has a buildup in a release, but you know, with or without you or something like that by you too, just when it gets to the
31:50 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_03]: How are you building it to it for three minutes or the right?
31:53 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a good example because when I listen to that song, I don't feel the same way.
32:01 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:01 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that it's wants me to, but I don't, because I don't have a personal connection.
32:06 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like you too, I'm just on the record.
32:09 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But this song, and I'm forwarded with putting them in this, I don't think we're doing it.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I see something.
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Boycotting you too, sorry.
32:15 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Damn.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't like what they did that time.
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I've mentioned it.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I found it.
32:20 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_03]: We think of the conversation we could have.
32:22 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I know.
32:22 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_02]: This idea that.
32:24 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_02]: That notion, this YouTube, the YouTube paradox here, speaks to the idea that you have to have an individualized emotional connection to the music for it all to work.
32:37 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why the AI can't just pick something that will work for everybody.
32:42 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it has to tie in like the reason that gangster's paradise pumps me up or will some
32:51 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_02]: For Wilson Phillips, I think if I was going to work and I was having a really low day and I like didn't want to drag my feet and the song came on the radio and it like touched me in a way that made me realize I can do it.
33:04 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I can persevere.
33:05 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a big deal.
33:06 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And then whenever I feel low, I listen to it.
33:08 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm reminded of that moment in the car.
33:10 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_03]: In the same way, fast car makes you cry alive with the glory of love makes me cry.
33:15 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
33:16 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_03]: But that's a different pipeline, but similarly where the individual experience context is all of it.
33:21 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_02]: My kid, I need to tell you, my kid for summer camp last summer.
33:25 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She did like a band camp where she was like the singer and a band kids band.
33:29 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
33:30 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And they were just cool for a lot kind of things.
33:31 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Cool for a lot kind of thing.
33:32 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And they sang fast car.
33:34 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, I got ya.
33:35 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, mass, she's like, you can't cry.
33:38 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't cry during the performance.
33:39 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm not gonna, I don't cry.
33:42 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It was mental acrobatics not to be something.
33:45 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
33:46 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that's great.
33:47 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
33:48 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But we unlocked that.
33:49 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't, I'm not comfortable.
33:51 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is when I got about dopamine in the sun specifically.
33:54 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And it did, you know,
33:57 --> 34:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And through season 3 in Nicole fashion, my psychological rant was very fueled by a musical jumping point.
34:06 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'd love to hear about pedal tone.
34:09 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So we can see kind of how the building release plays into this.
34:13 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_03]: but a good place in the song to demonstrate what I'm talking about with regards to pedal chords and pedal tones and what all this is would actually be the solo right after the first chorus.
34:24 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_03]: So, listen to this short section and listen specifically to the bass and notice that the bass note doesn't change.
34:43 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But the chords do change.
34:44 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what what knows that bass playing is to see.
34:46 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an F. That's close.
34:51 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_03]: It's possible to be further away from the C than F. But only one note is further away.
34:56 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's good.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So where do you call?
34:59 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'm hearing harmonics because that's the third partial of F is C. Maybe I'm hearing the rest of it.
35:05 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
35:06 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what it was.
35:07 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_03]: what we're going to hear and I'll play it against you can hear kind of guided by what I'm about to say is we have an F chord and then what we could call C slash F C over F and what that means is the base stays on F but the chords the piano and I think there might be a good guitar at this point too shift to play a C so we have F then C over F and then B flat over F
35:30 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, F is not a node in C at all.
35:33 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just not a part of the chord.
35:35 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_03]: C chord has C, E, and G. F does not belong.
35:38 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_03]: B-flat does have F, but it's the fifth, which is sort of an unstable piece.
35:43 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it moves back to F. So we have essentially the keyboards and guitars are playing for chord progression.
35:50 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_03]: F, C, B-flat, F. But the base stays on F for the whole time.
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So listen again.
36:08 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So if I play just that core progression on the piano, so you can really clarify the harmonies.
36:14 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Notice that the second and sort of the third chord are really clashing with the bass.
36:32 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_02]: has that tension there.
36:33 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the tension that's like kind of keeping me and waiting for the other shooter drop, like I'm waiting for something to happen next in it.
36:39 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not happening and that's keeping me that.
36:41 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a built up.
36:42 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's an interest.
36:43 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So it A, I would say, A creates tension, but also listen again.
36:48 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It also prolongs the F chord.
36:51 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_03]: If you were to kind of zoom out, it feels tense, but it also feels like the chord hasn't changed at all.
36:57 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Like if you squint, you can hear harmonies changing, but also just big picture-wise, this whole section is just F.
37:15 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_03]: You hear what I mean?
37:16 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:16 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_03]: It sort of hasn't changed, but yet there's this change that makes it like stasis that is tense.
37:22 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
37:23 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is called a pedal chord, or the bass in this case is a pedal tone, P-E-D-A-L. A pedal tone is a type of what we call a non-harmonic tone, which we'll talk about later in this season more.
37:36 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_03]: We have a few times already.
37:37 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about non-harmonic tones in our killers episode, but it's a non-harmonic tone because the F is not a part of that C chord.
37:45 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It is non-harmonic.
37:47 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It is in the key, sure, but not a part of the harmony itself.
37:51 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it creates tension, but also prolongs the base chord, right?
37:56 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:57 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So compare if...
37:58 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We play this exact same chord progression, but don't have the bass chill on the pedal tone.
38:04 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm gonna have the bass go F, C, B, flat, just like the upper part to the chord.
38:28 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the pedal version, no pedal version.
38:39 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say I like the pedal version better because it's the version I know and that I love.
38:43 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I actually like don't hate the second one.
38:47 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a normal progression at that point.
38:50 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a comfortable, technically a retro aggression, but whatever.
38:53 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, touch that way.
38:55 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_03]: One thing about pedal chords and one thing about using a pedal tone specifically in the bass is you usually start with the note fitting the chord, like notice our first chord is F. So the F in the bass makes sense.
39:09 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_03]: and often we will then go to weird places and then end with the last chord also being fitting.
39:16 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So our first and last chord are F, and that's usually how they're used.
39:21 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Where the beginning and the end, the base note fits, but the middle chords can kind of be whatever you want.
39:27 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's me playing a bunch of weird chords, some very dissonant, but I'm keeping the pedal and in some ways everything sounds good if you hold that pedal.
39:46 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that sounds like not good.
39:49 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't like it, but, but also, it kind of works.
39:53 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of works.
40:03 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I'm needing to get pumped up for a day, he's saying that is sending me right back to bed.
40:07 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_03]: That is not what you're doing.
40:09 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So.
40:10 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Usually again, you start an end with consonants and you let the middle chords be strange.
40:16 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what happens in this song.
40:18 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, these are most common in the bass, but not universally true in the bass.
40:22 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_03]: A pedal chord, the bass is doing the thing, but a pedal tone, you could have a common thing in like rock or acoustic music because you'd have like the open string, a highest string on the guitar, just ringing along with the without having to ever like change it.
40:37 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you with me?
41:02 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do they call it a pedal tone, though?
41:04 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, why a pedal tone?
41:06 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So like sometimes happens, this one goes way back.
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a guest as to why it's called a pedal tone?
41:11 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_03]: You said you did Google this.
41:13 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I have a guest and I think it's probably correct.
41:15 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
41:16 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_02]: My guess is, and it was clear when you played it on the piano.
41:21 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_02]: They think it probably has something to do with the pedals on the piano.
41:25 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Pedals on the piano.
41:26 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_03]: That's my guess.
41:27 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Good feeling instrument that like has pedals.
41:29 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you gotta go further back than that.
41:31 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the piano isn't even that old.
41:33 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_03]: The piano is, you know, maybe like piano forte.
41:38 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Forte Piano, you mean?
41:39 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
41:39 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The piano forte is the piano.
41:41 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
41:41 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The forte piano comes before the piano.
41:44 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:44 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Like in Bridgeton.
41:46 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_02]: The play piano forte.
41:46 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The piano forte.
41:47 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
41:48 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But probably the organ.
41:49 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_03]: The organ.
41:50 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So the organ has pedals.
41:51 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So you know what the pedals on the piano do, right?
41:54 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_02]: They like make it louder or softer.
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_03]: One of them makes it softer.
41:57 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
41:57 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_03]: In a quarter, the soft pedal, right?
42:00 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, other ones, have you ever messed around with the other ones?
42:03 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_03]: No, really.
42:04 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_03]: They make the notes sustain.
42:06 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
42:06 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that would make sense, right?
42:08 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's another one.
42:09 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_03]: The left pedal is called the Sostenuto.
42:11 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Sostenuto.
42:11 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Sostenuto.
42:13 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The base notes, usually, is what it's used.
42:16 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_03]: But actually it goes further back than that, because the organ has pedals.
42:21 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Think like a big epic cathedral organ or something.
42:24 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
42:24 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Not a little electric organ, though, those can have pedals too.
42:28 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what the pedals do in a big organ?
42:31 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_03]: A pipe organ?
42:31 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Probably a kind of the same thing.
42:33 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_02]: No, they don't.
42:34 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Do they put more air through it or something?
42:35 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't do anything.
42:37 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_03]: You're thinking the bellows, like you've got somebody pumping air, that's different.
42:41 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
42:41 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Now what's the learn?
42:42 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you used to have an apprentice who worked for the church?
42:46 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Who will learn or be pumping the bellows?
42:47 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Keep air in the organ.
42:49 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_03]: That sucks indeed, I'm sure.
42:51 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry to laugh at him, guys, probably you guessed it out a little bit more.
42:54 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, well that's the failed construct.
42:56 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean honestly maybe.
42:58 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like you didn't work out and you didn't work out.
43:00 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_03]: You get to pump the organ for the original.
43:01 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you have to pump the organ, bummer.
43:04 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So, there's a funny joke in past the fortunes of people.
43:11 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's hilarious, it's an all that, but I can't get there.
43:13 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, you got it.
43:15 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like circling around to really funny bit, but go have a story.
43:19 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The organ has a lot of pipes, right?
43:21 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of them are two feet, four feet.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Each pipe is at a different pitch.
43:25 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Pipe organ balls, you got it.
43:27 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm gonna leave it in, she's chuckling.
43:29 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_02]: She can't kill us, and she's just thinking of a conversation.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I had, that's a friend, but something different.
43:34 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_03]: That's always good.
43:35 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:36 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Bring it in.
43:36 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Bring it inside.
43:37 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Inside jokes.
43:38 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
43:38 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Inside jokes.
43:39 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_03]: That are great for fun.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a bump.
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_03]: OK. Oh, yeah.
43:43 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_03]: OK.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So what were you saying about pedal tones?
43:45 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_03]: In a big church, you might see 32 foot or 64 foot pipes.
43:50 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_03]: What are those?
43:51 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_03]: The crazy low base notes.
43:52 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
43:53 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you play crazy low bass notes on the organ?
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_03]: You step on the pedal.
43:56 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_03]: You do not play the keyboards.
43:59 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_03]: They call them the manuals.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't play any of the manuals.
44:01 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_03]: You step on the bass super low bass.
44:03 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of cool.
44:04 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It takes a lot of coordination, huh?
44:05 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_03]: You see a pipe organist there like dancing.
44:08 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you think drummers have a lot going on because their left and right feet are playing base notes while their hands are usually split on multiple different keyboards playing different sounds.
44:18 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I know someone that is a organized church.
44:21 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like the church organ director and it has a pipe organ and everything.
44:25 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It has, yeah, and he does like organ repairs and stuff is like really into it.
44:29 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So ask him about pedal tones because I'll bring it into conversation here.
44:33 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's the thing.
44:34 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_03]: How quickly?
44:35 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you play the manuals, the keyboards?
44:37 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Really quickly, right?
44:38 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty quickly.
44:38 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_03]: How quickly can you dance around your feet?
44:41 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Less quickly, usually, right?
44:43 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So oftentimes, you have a low base note that might just hold while rocking out is happening in the right and left hand while you're holding a long base note.
44:54 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So here we go.
44:56 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_03]: B-W-V-542, great Fantasia and Fugan G-Miner.
45:00 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_03]: JSBock, 1720, this is Michelle Shepui playing the organ, and you're going to hear a moving baseline in the pedals, and then it lands on a long pedal on D, which is Seoul, the fifth scale degree in the key, while other stuff happens above.
45:19 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And it is an example of a pedal tone, which creates what we could call pedal chords,
45:26 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_03]: all coming from the actual organ pedals.
45:43 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you hear it?
45:44 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
45:44 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
45:45 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like a sustained bomb.
45:46 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they'll really load D chilling there for just a couple seconds.
45:50 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes they go longer than that.
45:52 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's some examples in more modern music.
45:55 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Starting with some nepo references.
45:57 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the Beach Boys.
45:59 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I just wasn't made for these times.
46:01 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_03]: This one from Pet Sound, 1966.
46:04 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Five bars of a sea pedal with a bunch of jazzy shifting weird chords above it.
46:09 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it drops to an F pedal with some shifting chords above that.
46:13 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Each time things start to happen again.
46:17 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I got something good going for myself.
46:37 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_02]: But the tone is in the vocals there, the pedal tone, no.
46:42 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the vocals are changing like a little bit.
46:45 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Cords, I mean, there's repetition.
46:47 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_03]: He is shifting when the chorus shift, but the bass is just chilling.
46:50 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_03]: There's two long chords essentially there.
46:53 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we just turned journey.
46:55 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's hear more journey.
46:56 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Separate ways, worlds apart, 1983.
46:59 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_03]: You're gonna hear the guitar also joining in on the pedal.
47:07 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_00]: For the heart's broken into Two Two Divistness Within round our reach above you
47:30 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, based on guitar chilling while the synth chords and the melody follow an actual chord progression.
47:36 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that they're like resentful the good musicians?
47:40 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, um, just playing this one.
47:41 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Not at all musicians are resentful first of all.
47:44 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
47:45 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why their musicians, they got to work out there.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_03]: They're doing it.
47:49 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_03]: You're, are you saying it's boring to do that?
47:51 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it can be boring to do that kind of thing.
47:53 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like if I was in a band and if I was in a kid's band,
47:59 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_02]: school of rock and there wasn't like a lot of talent there for the rhythm guitar or the bass.
48:05 --> 48:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be like, you know what, you're just going to hang out on D. Well, here's the thing about that particular song for example.
48:12 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_03]: That would be fun.
48:14 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_03]: is if you're the base player or the guitar player, it's got a good groove.
48:18 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
48:18 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And you can just like get in the pocket and just like enjoy the don't.
48:21 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It really stands face to face and like sway back and forth together almost.
48:25 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And like you can get into it.
48:27 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think if you take the the worst kid in the band and you assign them the rhythm guitar on separate ways because you think
48:34 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_03]: they can play it.
48:34 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_03]: They probably can't do the groove right, right?
48:37 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So it might actually be really fun to play that song.
48:39 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never played that song, but it might be actually satisfying because you can just really dig into the groove.
48:43 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like the flow state of it.
48:44 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly right.
48:45 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Good reference.
48:46 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if we to the same episode very well done, yes, if we have like a boring rhythm on that, then yeah, it gets boring.
48:53 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Like every now and then you'll see like,
48:55 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_03]: in orchestra piece where like the viola is sitting on the open G for the entire song or something.
49:00 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a piece called NC by Terry Riley, not Teddy Riley, the producer of New Jack Swing.
49:06 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Terry Riley, the minimalist composer, where the piano and this god probably I've said this on the podcast because it's so ridiculous.
49:13 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_03]: The score indicates that like a young, beautiful woman is supposed to play the piano part.
49:17 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just like, you've never said that.
49:19 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what have been appalled?
49:20 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_02]: 90's.
49:21 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_03]: 60's gross.
49:23 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_03]: culture.
49:23 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyways, the part is literally just ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding in the octave two oct or either two or three octaves of C ding ding ding for the entire piece in this piece is like an hour long.
49:35 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
50:08 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're saying that they need a young beautiful woman to center herself and be annoying on stage.
50:13 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And be bored while just bored.
50:16 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
50:17 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And just look nice and be like the annoying focal point.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, everybody else improvises.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
50:22 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
50:24 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Not okay.
50:25 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Take it up with Terry Riley too.
50:27 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Teddy Riley.
50:28 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whatever.
50:28 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Not Terry Riley.
50:30 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Teddy Riley maybe got me too.
50:32 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, I don't think so, but Terry Riley.
50:34 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's pretty stupid, but it's cool.
50:36 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a cool piece.
50:36 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just the piano part is so boring.
50:39 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
50:40 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I've been listening to a lot of earth wind and fire since I did it.
50:42 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so we don't.
50:44 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you talk about that.
50:45 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_02]: That was like months ago.
50:46 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_02]: That was like a year ago.
50:47 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Get over it.
50:47 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_02]: What was that?
50:48 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Was that like summer?
50:49 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I think June or July.
50:50 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's the way of the world title track from their 1975 album.
50:55 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the way the world.
50:56 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the catches parts of the song.
50:58 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We have a cool chromatic descending line in the upper cords over a pedal in the base.
51:27 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I love it.
51:28 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Earthwinter fires good.
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I still haven't watched that documentary.
51:31 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, it's been, okay.
51:33 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I listened to you talk about it.
51:34 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, I'm glad you listened, but you should watch it.
51:38 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And also just listen to their music.
51:39 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So one more example, where we get back to the song, which we barely talked about, seal, crazy, 1991, super low-based pedal, which keeps going even through the chorus.
51:52 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Miracles will happen right in truth.
52:10 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's weird because that boat, the boom, boom, that slap base is not as loud as some of the synth, so it almost gets taken over kind of the core progression sort of wins against the pedal.
52:20 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you listen closely, that bass note is chilling on that low.
52:23 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're bringing, perceives it.
52:25 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think in Wilson Phillips and some of the other examples it is very obtuse that it's so clear.
52:32 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_03]: In the journey song, it's like the loudest instrument.
52:34 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
52:34 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And like it kind of brings you right there and makes it really accessible.
52:38 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But seals again, like I really impressed whenever I really dig into his writing.
52:44 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought you were going to take your own horn and get about.
52:46 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so impressed about my connect.
52:47 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
52:47 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so great about music.
52:50 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But like the fact that
52:52 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It is just under the surface enough that it's at like the, it's like we have to talk about like thresholds or perception in a different episode, but it's barely noticeable, but it's enough to perceive, but you do have to pay attention to it's like the minimum threshold.
53:05 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And that if you took that out, the tension level and that chorus, the sort of driving nature of that chorus would go away a little bit.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_02]: If only there was a way to do that.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
53:15 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Get our AI overlords to delete some audio.
53:18 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
53:19 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Back to our song, although honestly, we, we've hit it the meat.
53:24 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Me, we just kind of sort of hear how it plays out.
53:26 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
53:27 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Here is verse two of hold on, of course.
53:30 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And notice that it still sits on our pedal.
53:34 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But then it shifts for a moment.
53:35 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_03]: We get from our F chord.
53:36 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It goes then D minor B flat C. We basically get the base finally changing and playing basically the end of that chord progression.
53:45 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And what I want you to notice is how to me at least.
53:48 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_03]: The moment that it finally changes, stands out.
53:50 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_03]: We've been hearing this steady F and then suddenly, chord, chord, chord.
53:57 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got no one to blame, we are unhappiness.
54:00 --> 54:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Go baby, you've got just happened to your romance.
54:05 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
54:06 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, you're worried that you're back.
54:10 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Come to Spain, but don't you think it's worth your time?
54:14 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Right there.
54:20 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that you got yourself, and that's what really gets me in teaching.
54:23 --> 54:27 [SPEAKER_02]: When I'm like, get out on your horse, Nicole, you got yourself into this, your own ass.
54:27 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_02]: This is your fault.
54:29 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You decided to teach six courses this semester.
54:31 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_02]: You decided to have five different preps.
54:33 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_02]: What were you thinking?
54:34 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So I, I didn't think about that line that you got yourself.
54:38 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_03]: This song is about China's drug and alcohol addiction, and so it's this positive
54:44 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_03]: like, and she co-wrote it, they wrote it with Glenn also, like, positive, you're gonna get through this, but also a little bit of like, but you did fuck up, you can get yourself in this situation.
54:55 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It's about accountability.
54:56 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:56 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, pro that.
54:58 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.
54:58 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's so our generation, like, I feel like in later generations.
55:05 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_02]: this idea of accountability is a hot take by thinking it's slipping by the wayside.
55:11 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if I said to it, one of my students, you got yourself into this mess, it's your problems to solve.
55:16 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine saying that to your kids.
55:17 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Go to the dean.
55:18 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll please.
55:20 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_02]: They'd spiral out, right?
55:22 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_02]: But for us, like, we did.
55:23 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We got our, so we made these choices.
55:26 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_02]: We got ourselves into this predicament.
55:28 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was
55:31 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_02]: how to cop during and save us.
55:33 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we have to save yourself.
55:35 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Through the end of the talk about hearts and soul.
55:38 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But the more about generational differences, but I think that that's part of it, too.
55:42 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, go on.
55:43 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure how much that.
55:44 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
55:45 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sorry.
55:45 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
55:46 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where I'm at with that, whether it ties to generation or not, but then young ones, yeah.
55:52 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
55:52 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_02]: These kids today.
55:53 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
55:54 --> 56:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So let's take that idea of suddenly the chords changing and it being this impactful moment, and let's see how that plays out in the chorus.
56:01 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's the first half of the chorus, and you're going to just hear only the pedal.
56:15 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's that delightful combination of tension and stasis that pedal cords give us.
56:22 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_03]: But in the second half of the chorus, what happens?
56:24 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_03]: We get a fast chord motion that I think make the chords hit harder.
56:50 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And even in the vocals in the last part, it's like one sustained tone, like the harmony, I don't know if you'd call it a harmony, but like one of the vocalists is just singing like one note consistently.
57:02 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_03]: in the first half.
57:03 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_02]: No, just in the last little bit.
57:05 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you might have been China.
57:07 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, don't fall in the background.
57:10 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_02]: She like sings like a sustained note.
57:12 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is somebody not moving?
57:14 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't.
57:14 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
57:15 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_02]: You'll tell me.
57:23 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_03]: on the tonic.
57:24 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know that is um that's interesting.
57:26 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's all holding on one cord at that point.
57:28 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_03]: You're already at their last cord, but that part where it goes bump bump bump bump in the base.
57:34 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_03]: The cord's finally changed to me.
57:36 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really impactful, but even though it's a simple core progression, there's something about when you have no change, tiny changes suddenly hit really hard.
57:48 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_03]: noted me to victim, Terry Riley, the minimalist composers that we talked about briefly.
57:57 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we should call him anything because he wrote a stupid line in the score.
58:01 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know actually that he was a misogynist.
58:03 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_03]: It might just be a reflection on what the uptown scene culture was like.
58:06 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We have to put people in the time and place of their existence before we go about canceling them, I think.
58:11 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have to do nothing.
58:12 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't deserve.
58:13 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_03]: We can say that it's shitty, but that doesn't mean he is shit and we don't have to repeat that behavior moving forward.
58:18 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure when that piece is performed that isn't in the world 90 rolled man sitting there playing.
58:25 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think he's happy to be there.
58:28 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I think nobody is following that direction, scored direction to include only a young woman.
58:34 --> 58:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, but I've mentioned him again, because the minimalist composers were all about that.
58:39 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like you have 10 minutes on one chord and then suddenly one note changes, and that one note change feels like everything.
58:46 --> 58:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas, like jazz fusion or whatever, the chord might be changing every second, and so each individual change is not meaningful.
58:54 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_03]: when things don't change like in this chorus that bum bum bum bum at the end feels huge to us.
59:02 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is what makes, I think, the songs use of those pedals so effective.
59:07 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And if we listen to probably the climax, I would say the iconic almost aquapella moment, we don't even have the instruments playing along, but to me it feels like the pedal is there.
59:19 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_03]: We feel that bass presence,
59:34 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But when do the chords actually come in?
59:37 --> 59:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's on the changing chords.
59:39 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we just sit on the pedal.
59:59 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_03]: We have a pretty long outro all on the pedal for almost all of it.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: There's like a parenthetical moment in the lyrics.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you know things can change and she goes she says no and like it's parenthetically when you look at the lyrics and that was a no.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_02]: She singing I don't know.
01:00:18 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a musician but that note that she sing on that parenthetical no seems like it's part of the chords that they land on later in that chord
01:00:31 --> 01:00:55 [SPEAKER_03]: No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
01:01:04 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I did it like no, but see what here's what I love about what you just did because they know like when I was talking I don't know that that is insightful, but it sounds insightful like I think that's right But like it is properly constructed and you could sell that as if you've just unlocked the entire piece like that's a well That's a paragraph in a paper.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You're like and also the a natural by Wendy
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 [SPEAKER_02]: China, China feel like Wendy Philips are trying to do with you.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Wilson or China feel it.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, four shadows to be flat.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Come in.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Three measures later.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:38 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is what makes me a good teacher.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: You just have to sell it with confidence.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You can hold on for a moment.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's not all defensible, it's good.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's a few other examples to end here, not just of pedal tones, but of other songs that use the sudden change away from the pedal.
01:01:52 --> 01:01:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think it's easy to use a pedal
01:01:56 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_03]: But the songs that do it really well are the ones where suddenly the shift away from the pedal is very impactful using it as a point of contrast.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So here is Queen 1975, you're my best friend.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Two chords over a pedal and then it moves at the start of the next section.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And that part really feels like it's picking up the pace.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, secondly, favorite queen songs.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously?
01:02:42 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, that song is so good.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like the song is good.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I just take Umbridge with the concept of best friend.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I have this hard time with you.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:53 [SPEAKER_02]: My best friend.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Can we talk about that another time?
01:02:55 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
01:02:55 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a whole thing.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh Our bridge.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of I kind of feel like there's part of me that agrees with you, but also I give you
01:03:02 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like constant, and one person can't be everything.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_02]: You and need different friends, different things.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked a little bit about that when we talked about the triangular theory of love, yeah, we did.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's the story, we have to come back to it.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Come back to it.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The idea I have, let's come back to it.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It's great song.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:19 [SPEAKER_02]: What a great example for petal phones.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_03]: 1984, jump by Van Halen, an iconic pedal tone on the huge synth bass.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But there's a huge cadence at the end of the phrase bomb.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So we get the long C and then a quick but epic chord change at the end of the phrase.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of makes me feel a little bit crazy when I focus on that, but I think that's just my weird brain.
01:03:56 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:03:56 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just something about the tone of that note, it's like, it's really resonant.
01:04:00 --> 01:04:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of... Yeah.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And it vibrates in a weird way inside the ears, but it's supposed to, so it's working.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:10 [SPEAKER_03]: It telegraphs also major changes that happen in the pre-chorus.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say we're then suddenly things change a lot.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, with the punches and get the ones real.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:42 [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny you mentioned like there's something kind of almost grading about that there's some video that I what was shared with me years ago.
01:04:43 --> 01:04:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It's been hailing playing live and something went wrong with the computer or something and the keyboard because they don't
01:04:50 --> 01:05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: That's Eddie Van Hale in playing the keyboards in this album, but live, I think they just use it back in track and it had been shifted to the wrong key and the band just is playing the song in the wrong key.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:02 [SPEAKER_03]: That's just the worst sounding thing ever.
01:05:02 --> 01:05:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me, oh, yeah, there's something about it.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's for me it's the note itself, but also the synth for me is like, it's just something it's a lot.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
01:05:12 --> 01:05:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I like it.
01:05:12 --> 01:05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: It's too much to check texture.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, speaking of Buzzy synth bass.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Katy Perry, I kissed a girl, 2008.
01:05:51 --> 01:06:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We have a heavy synth bass here, and it ignores all the changing guitars, but then in the second half, the chorus sort of where it repeats, the bass starts climbing up with the other instruments and builds towards the end.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So again, sudden change in the pedal, ending the pedal, gives us the sense of forward momentum.
01:06:11 --> 01:06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Girl and I liked it The taste of her cherry trapped skin I kissed a girl just to try it So it's up to change, finally Don't mind it It felt so wrong It felt so right Don't mean I'm in love tonight I kissed a girl and I liked it
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I hear.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I always think of them as many people will.
01:06:46 --> 01:06:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Tina Chang's audition song in the right in Glee, the show Glee.
01:06:52 --> 01:06:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Never watch it.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very good.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I bet.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very, very good.
01:06:55 --> 01:06:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's like dark in a way that's unexpected.
01:06:58 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like kind of twisted and dark.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_02]: The song will show the show in general because it's the same.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's been my college way.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:08 [SPEAKER_03]: When that came out and I was not.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:11 [SPEAKER_03]: particularly connected to what the high school students would be watching.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And also, I was in the actual college Occupella.
01:07:14 --> 01:07:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so you would maybe think I would be, but it was we were too cool for school, probably to watch the high school auto tuned.
01:07:22 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is that it was unexpected about Glee is that because it's by Ryan Murphy is directed and producing like,
01:07:31 --> 01:07:38 [SPEAKER_02]: created by Ryan Murphy, who's the same guy that does American horror story and I thought like darker stuff that's like really satirical.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's about high school lead club but kind of dark and satirical too.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like high school musical in the musical to show like it's
01:07:47 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it is, but that isn't.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_03]: That is satirical, too, right though.
01:07:51 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_02]: That is satirical, but Glee is definitely more like, there's some much darker themes that are treated with like a comic tone that watching it now, you know, it was created, yeah, like when we were in college, but you watch it now, you know, like, oh, that's, there's no way they could do this now.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Me 2009 was different than 2026.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Too bad you couldn't tell my 20 something self to put down a heartbreaking work of staggering genius and play in style.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Watch Goli instead.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'll tell you what, when Quinn for Bray texts and drives and then up in a wheelchair for half the season after she's been making fun of a kid in a wheelchair for all the precursor seasons, that is a heartbreaking work of staggering genius right there.
01:08:42 --> 01:08:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
01:08:46 --> 01:08:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I also produce.
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01:08:59 --> 01:09:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Never mind the music is part of the Laura Hounds Network.
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01:09:08 --> 01:09:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.