This month’s Rewind finds a lot of commonality between the chord shenanigans in “Hold On” and this week’s throwback from Season 1!
Was this song written just for this podcast? Tears for Fears’ 1985 smash “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” is so perfect that even the band name is a psychology reference. Oh, and the album title is a callout to dissociative identity disorder. Mark takes that and runs, connecting that to the unusual pace the chords of the song shift. Nichole also wonders: does everybody actually want to rule the world?
Other music heard in this episode: Tears for Fears - "Mothers Talk," Tears for Fears - "Head Over Heels", Tears for Fears - "I Believe," Tears for Fears - "Mad World," Miles Davis - "So What", Earth, Wind & Fire - "Shining Star", Live,- "Lightning Crashes"
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00:00 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like people that don't listen, but they're just waiting to talk.
00:03 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, you can tell by their eyes.
00:05 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not listening.
00:05 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just already preparing their next.
00:07 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Please let I do.
00:08 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that like a guitar solo?
00:20 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:21 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Mark.
00:21 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're listening to never mind the music.
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark, what are we talking about today?
00:25 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember everybody wants to rule the world by tears for fears?
00:30 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember it because I wasn't, I don't think born or live or functioning when it was first produced, but I know it as a song.
00:39 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, okay, are we talking about the type of difference?
00:42 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this, what is it?
00:43 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It pissed emologies, that they'll turn like the study of knowledge.
00:45 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, can you know a song if you don't remember?
00:48 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember this song?
01:00 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody was too old
01:07 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: you know the song and you you have memories of hearing the song which means you remember the song is that safe?
01:14 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we go there?
01:14 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We can't.
01:15 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I just gave a whole lecture about memory yesterday so I'm really like in the weeds about jargon, but you are enough.
01:20 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Fair enough.
01:21 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I stand corrected, I guess.
01:22 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:23 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've got some stuff I want to talk about with this song, but honestly, I think we got to start with me asking you some things because there's some things.
01:31 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I do understand about this song in this band, but there are definitely things that I don't.
01:37 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here we go.
01:38 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so this is everybody wants to know this song.
01:41 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This is everybody wants to rule the world.
01:43 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: 1985 albums songs from the big chair by tears for fears.
01:48 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is one of their biggest hits.
01:50 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know either twos for fears songs?
01:52 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I bet you if you played them for me I'd be like, oh yeah, I love that song, but I couldn't like recall tears for fears songs.
01:58 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have other ones queued up.
01:59 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
02:00 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I said the name?
02:01 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably.
02:07 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_02]: These are the things I can do with our come on, I'm talking to you, come on.
02:19 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Shout it all out.
02:21 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Let it all.
02:22 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Let it all out.
02:22 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
02:23 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't shout more than twice in per phrase of music.
02:26 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to let it all.
02:27 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't shout it all out.
02:28 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay extra for that.
02:29 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So shout this album actually had a bunch of singles.
02:42 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_02]: head over heels, I believe, the difference between the stars and the stars
03:11 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: shout and everybody wants to rule the world where the huge ones, but like, you know, mad world, right?
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a great song.
03:17 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, there is originally like their melodramatic synth pop version is, you know, well,
03:35 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not as well known as the Gary Jewels version, but, you know, that's originally then.
03:39 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, cheers for fears.
03:41 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I love tears for fears, 80s, British, synth pop will probably be hearing more of that style this season on this show.
03:48 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Love synth pop.
03:49 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I do.
03:50 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, like any good self-deprecating guitar player, I have to actually prefer other instruments I don't play as well.
03:56 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So this song was written by Roland Orsaball, one of the main two guys of tears her fears with help from Ian Stanley and many Elias Kurt Smith, like the lead vocalist of this song, didn't actually start writing stuff for them until the 2000s.
04:08 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of, I don't know, the late bloomer in the band, but in a case.
04:13 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into talking about the chords and the musicality of the song, can we just talk about the band named tears for fears for a minute?
04:21 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This song is on an album called Songs From The Big Chair.
04:27 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_00]: By a band called Tears For Fears.
04:30 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And apparently both of these are references to psychology.
04:34 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_00]: References to psychotherapy, psychotherapeutic techniques, I don't know the term.
04:38 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So the name itself, Tears For Fears, is a reference apparently to primal therapy.
04:45 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
04:46 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So...
04:47 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
04:48 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about chords.
04:51 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there, but what's in with them?
04:53 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_00]: What's primal therapy?
04:54 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Help me ground myself in what this band is.
04:56 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So primal therapy is, well, let me just say, no one's like practicing primal therapy clinically anymore.
05:05 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It really is like a modernization of this Freudian thought that everything's rooted in your childhood.
05:12 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we can untangle those childhood experiences, we can help you be a better adult.
05:17 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really like getting back to your primal basic instincts through subconscious exploration.
05:23 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing that they kind of deep dive.
05:26 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You could probably make some connections to primal therapy to like the modern day experimentation with psychedelics in therapy,
05:43 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of lifting off the veil of society that burdens us to really talk about how we're feeling and to really connect with what's going on inside of us.
05:53 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we feel censored and now primal therapy is lifting that censorship off, lifting that social stigma off and just really releasing the real stuff that's bothered to yours or end our fears.
06:06 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Try it away, right?
06:08 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Try it away.
06:08 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, feel your feelings.
06:09 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
06:11 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so there is a lot to talk about about this song, musically, the chords are cool.
06:16 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It has an unusual form, an unusual song structure, and also has two guitar solos, which I think may have been a maybe cynical.
06:26 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: way to get good with the American audience, which this was a huge hit in the United States.
06:32 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: This was the third single from this album, but the second one to hit number one.
06:37 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So shout and everybody wants to rule the world, both hit number one in the United States.
06:42 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's listen just for the sake of it, snippets of both guitar solos.
06:45 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This one's from Roland Orzabal.
06:53 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: sort of a old school rock and roll, and here's one by Neal Taylor, who I think is a session guitarist.
07:04 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_00]: What are your thoughts on guitar solo's Nicole?
07:08 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I am generally pro guitar solo.
07:11 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big fan of live music and it's very satisfying.
07:16 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And when they kind of break out the juicy guitar solo, I mean, nothing's better than that.
07:20 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: How about you?
07:21 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay, do you think the song would be is better or worse for the minute and a half of guitar solo's that happened?
07:27 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's better, but there's no way that would happen today.
07:30 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: in a pop song, a synth pop song that you'd kind of need to move on to the the hook or like we're in the TikTok generation right now.
07:36 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: People would just skip to the next song maybe if it was on the radio or on a TikTok.
07:40 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this song the guitar solo is just so different like they're they just hit different each of them and I think it's cool.
07:46 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the cool thing about using this session player.
07:47 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there's a lot of bands with Google guitar players who still use a different guitarist for certain solos.
07:53 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, so are you like jam bands?
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to
07:57 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you like it when there's a song that's four minutes long, but when you see them live, it's 40 minutes long.
08:02 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there was a time in my life that I really liked jam bands, but I saw the grateful dead live this past summer, and then their set was like four hours long, and I was like, this is just the same song, and people were around, we'd be like, oh, I love this one, like it sounds just like the last two hours.
08:19 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've evolved faster.
08:20 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of new toling, yeah.
08:21 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a lot of new toling, and like I get it, and I can't anymore.
08:28 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've kind of never been a guitar solo guy, but I think that's a, well, what's the term helped me out?
08:33 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a defense mechanism.
08:34 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like posturing a little bit when you play a guitar solo.
08:37 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like, because I've always wanted to sing.
08:39 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always wanted to write songs in sing.
08:41 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That meant I was spending my time playing guitar doing that instead of practicing solos.
08:45 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I feel like that's just an excuse for having not practiced soloing enough.
08:49 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
08:50 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So many years later, but like people that don't listen, but they're just waiting to talk.
08:54 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you can tell by the rise.
08:56 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not listening.
08:56 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just already preparing their next.
08:58 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That I did.
08:59 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that like a guitar solo?
09:00 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:01 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I think also there's a generational thing.
09:03 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in this sort of grunge and pop punk styles of the 90s, it was a little gauche, maybe to take a solo.
09:10 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, no, you just got to be simpler than that.
09:12 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
09:13 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And then here I am, middleing at best as a guitar soloist.
09:17 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: These soloes do it for me.
09:18 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They work.
09:34 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I want to talk about is harmonic rhythm.
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that mean anything to you, Nicole?
09:42 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I can like deduce what it might be.
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_00]: deduce.
09:46 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it rhythm that's also in harmony?
09:49 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Good.
09:51 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's the rhythm of the harmony.
09:53 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So if we define harmony, we think of harmony sometimes is like a backing vocal or something.
09:58 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But harmony just means chord, right?
10:00 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So the rhythm of the chords, but not like the groove, it's how often do the chords change.
10:07 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you've got a funky guitar part playing a lot of notes,
10:10 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go 10 seconds without the chord changing, that song has a slow harmonic rhythm.
10:16 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
10:16 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to a song like a pop punk song or something where the chord might change four times in a few seconds or something like that.
10:23 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: With me?
10:24 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it kind of like grounds the song in some way.
10:28 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it can ground the song.
10:29 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it could also make the song disorienting, right?
10:32 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The pain on the arm.
10:33 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: If it changes too much, exactly.
10:34 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's so cool about this song, one of the many things that makes this song so cool, is that it has a harmonic rhythm that shifts throughout.
10:42 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Most songs tend to have a regular harmonic rhythm.
10:45 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_00]: If we have one, two, three, four, we call that a measure or a bar, right?
10:49 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You might have a chord change once per bar, right?
10:53 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: A song like this does not keep that steady, whereas most songs might keep that harmonic rhythm, even if the chords change a bunch.
11:01 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The harmonic rhythm will stay the same to keep the song kind of predictable.
11:04 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: This song, not so much.
11:06 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: In this case, though, I think is really helpful at building energy.
11:10 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This song's four minutes and twenty-one seconds long, relatively long, and our momentum is preserved, partially I'm going to say, because of the harmonic rhythm.
11:20 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This song, when you look at the lyrics, they're not a lot of lyrics, but it is just the instrumentality, right?
11:24 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you would call it instrumentality?
11:27 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, our instrumental section, two guitar solos, there's synth little breakdowns, things like that.
11:33 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, the main sort of riff of this song is the synth stuff and guitar stuff we hear during the verse.
11:47 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an A chord to a G chord with a D in the bass for the nerds out there.
11:52 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And to me, this has always reminded me of the song So What by Miles Davis.
11:58 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:59 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This is from 1959, modal jazz classic.
12:03 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
12:09 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's an awesome song.
12:10 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that?
12:11 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that.
12:11 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You do know that.
12:12 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I do know that.
12:12 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same.
12:13 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Miles Davis tunes quite a bit more harmonically complex, which is fine.
12:17 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But we hear these two chords changing, but I'm going to say, we kind of only hear one.
12:30 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have the do-do, but it's kind of just sitting there otherwise.
12:34 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It almost feels like one long cord with that little sort of shift happening above it.
12:40 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so wild that you're using the word shift.
12:43 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you're talking about these harmonic changes, you know, I'm thinking of even this album title, songs from the big share is really a reference to like Freudian psychoanalysis.
12:55 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently songs from the big share is reference to a 1976 movie civil,
13:01 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: a classic case studying Freudian psychology this woman civil that had multiple personality disorder that she found a lot of comfort sitting in her therapist big chair.
13:12 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_01]: This idea of a therapeutic approach that like you have a client sitting in a big chair with an omnipresent therapist.
13:21 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: couch though, right?
13:22 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the couch, that's the archetypal vibe, right?
13:26 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: That is really based in like a Freudian approach of psychoanalysis that isn't often like practiced currently.
13:35 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: One because it takes a lot of time to go through like a psychoanilical process.
13:39 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really about deep diving into someone's childhood, deep diving into their subconscious.
13:44 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It takes a lot of
13:51 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, to build insurance for that type of therapy, so it's not widely practiced now.
13:55 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They'd rather just build for medication or something like that.
13:57 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, now we practice more like cognitive behavioral therapy or therapy that's more like backed in like deliverables and like you can quantify results.
14:06 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_01]: just a more modern approach.
14:08 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people still train and practice psychotherapy, but it was really big in like the 60s and 70s because that's when like therapy first kind of came up as a thing that you could do.
14:18 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You could sit in this big chair and like talk about your childhood and it would help you.
14:22 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_01]: media at the conflict in the present day.
14:25 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Freud believed that all of our anxiety, all of our sense for power and control and neurosis was rooted in our childhood experiences.
14:35 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we could go back and unpack those experiences, we'd be more adapted adults.
14:40 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where this idea of the big chair comes in, but civil, which is really cool.
14:46 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_01]: She was the first real case study and what you used to be called multiple personality disorder, but now we call it dissociative identity disorder and it's just a name change that it doesn't also come with.
14:59 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's probably some diagnostic criteria changes, but we just kind of changed it because it was really stigmatized this idea of multiple priorities.
15:06 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And so apparently this reference to the title is a reflection of the hostility of the British music press in the 80s.
15:13 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
15:13 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, what is that?
15:14 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, maybe we need to back off on this topic, but what does that mean?
15:18 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the safety of the big chair of your analysts talking through your problems as a reflection of dealing with music critics?
15:27 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's an interesting, we could make some connections there, like maybe tears for fears as a band felt like in their music writing processes was a place for them to process their emotions, like without the unlock of the music critics, or maybe it was a reference to essentially the multiple personalities of the critics and how they were reflecting on the tears for fears music.
15:52 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe interesting.
15:53 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
15:54 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the key markers of multiple personality disorder is the idea that you switch between personalities and you go back and forth and one lays latent under the surface and comes up and they kind of they go back and forth it makes a really strong connection to the convention that you're describing well that's interesting because what I would say harmonic rhythm wise and the song is we have this static with this single shifting cord, but then a switch gets flipped and things suddenly change so is that moment.
16:22 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: kind of reflective somehow of this idea of a different person.
16:25 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
16:26 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so take a listen.
16:27 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what we get during the verse.
16:30 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to your life.
16:36 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no time in that.
16:40 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Stasis.
16:41 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's that little chord shift.
16:43 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's otherwise static until we get to the hook.
16:46 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens?
17:05 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The melody is pretty similar, but those chords start changing.
17:09 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Even the lyrics that like, you know, you're talking about stasis and finding like a baseline and then this idea that either the lyrics say everybody wants to rule the world again, you can layer on this idea of dissociative identity sort of that every self inside this alter,
17:27 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: personality is kind of fighting for the mic.
17:32 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is really cool.
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of late in connections in the song to that time.
17:36 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
17:36 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:36 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So this song's about sort of a desire for power, kind of the corruption that it brings, but it's analogous to almost internal turmoil.
17:44 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
17:45 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: which this band is interested on some level, white roof with the band title, the album title thing.
17:51 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I noticed if that was their intent, but like we're discovering like it's a strong correlation between like the presentation of dissociative identity disorder and what they're discussing and the lyrics of the song and with the harmonic chord changes through the song too.
18:06 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's cool.
18:21 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have the stasis, personality one, the stasis of the verse, and then personality two, the movement of the chorus.
18:29 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And that alone, I said most songs keep steady harmonic rhythm.
18:33 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That alone is not totally without exception.
18:36 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a staple of, for example, funk music or a lot of R&B to have stasis in the verse and then a change harmonic changes happening in the chorus.
18:51 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: 1975.
18:52 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So cool.
18:52 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: One chord.
18:53 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, the chorus, the hook.
19:12 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: electric piano, bass, shifting, and chords start moving.
19:16 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of my pump-up jams.
19:17 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a good pump-up jam.
19:19 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good.
19:20 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good running song when you want the second win to kick in.
19:23 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Have some of those win-of-fire plugins.
19:26 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I try not to exercise.
19:27 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it's a moral.
19:29 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: A moral statement.
19:31 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not emotionally available for that.
19:32 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I said you've got like let's say a 1, 2, 3, 4 count in a song.
19:38 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And we could say how often the chords change.
19:41 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we're listening to the verse of this song,
19:46 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_00]: One, two, three, four, one, two, three, four.
19:51 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the tempo, that's the speed of the song.
19:54 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: When we get to the chorus, I'm going to count it.
19:55 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me, how many beats goes by before each chord change?
20:00 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_01]: No, gosh.
20:01 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I know there'd be a quiz.
20:03 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to count along and notice how often our chord changes, listen for the guitar, listen for the bass, the synths to all shift together.
20:13 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_00]: 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4 times 4 is 16 beats.
20:25 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you got?
20:25 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you got?
20:26 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think eight different times of changes.
20:28 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It changes on the first beat of every measure.
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, the first beat.
20:32 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the last measure, it changes every beat.
20:35 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The first part of the hook, it's four beats long.
20:38 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So one whole measure, one, two, three, four, chord change, two, three, four, chord change, two, three, four.
20:44 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But then at the end, it speeds up.
20:47 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_00]: When we listen to the second half, when we listen to the last line,
20:55 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4.
21:00 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It speeds up there and goes to what we call double time.
21:02 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The beat doesn't change, but the chords go from no chord changing at all to changing once per measure, to changing twice per measure, double speed.
21:13 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's just the chords alone, the beginning of the hook.
21:26 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:26 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds so depressing when you play it.
21:28 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say that.
21:29 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll call you definitely.
21:29 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:30 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, here's the, everybody wants to rule the world line.
21:41 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:42 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely changes faster.
21:43 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I want like a brighter resolution I do.
21:45 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This song, I think we're going to have to talk about that in a different way.
21:48 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:48 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So because this song does not really resolve.
21:51 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: The song is in the key of D.
21:54 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And we get a D chord exactly twice in the song, and it's for like a half a second.
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The bridge section bridges in music tend to be where you've got contrast.
22:04 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The harmonic rhythm gets even weirder.
22:06 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We won't count through it, but it's more complicated.
22:09 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's one little moment where it resolves, but it passes by so fast, it doesn't sound resolved at all.
22:25 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The third chord there, that's our decor, that's the only resolved chord, but it's not resolved, but the harmonic rhythm is more off beat there, things are more irregular in this one.
22:34 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so much I wanna talk about what this song about like conflict theory and sociology and how we're just being designed to fight against each other and we'll never find a resolution and it's such a good connection, but we're gonna save it.
22:46 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if that's another one.
22:47 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna save it for the next song about apocalyptic visions of our society.
22:51 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that also correlates with harmonic, whatever.
22:54 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Having this double time in the chorus thing is also not super unfamiliar.
22:59 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens in some pop songs.
23:00 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember live like the crashes?
23:03 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I do.
23:05 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the saddest songs of the 90s sort of confusing sad.
23:09 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:22 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my karaoke song.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's your karaoke, yeah.
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good crap, please, or.
23:25 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:26 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But then listen to the chorus.
23:27 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: The chords twice as fast.
23:36 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask you a question?
23:37 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:37 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This song, like everybody wants to rule the world.
23:40 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I just disagree with the premise of that song.
23:43 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't think that everybody wants to rule the world.
23:47 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I know for me, I'm very happy, like not ruling the world.
23:52 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be in charge.
23:53 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want people looking to meet to decisions.
23:56 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about that?
23:57 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if someone said to you, Mark, you're in charge of all of it, would you be like, yes, please.
24:03 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But with the actual, because what would happen is I would get assassinated within like 15 minutes?
24:09 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I mean, because if that's not a risk, like if I could change things, I think I, I think I am delusional enough that I would take that.
24:17 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But but also I philosophically don't, I don't think anybody should rule the world so like that.
24:22 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But if I say no, does that mean someone else
24:25 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
24:26 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this conversation took a different, took a, took a not fun turn if someone said to you, Mark, you're in charge of the whole wide world.
24:35 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: What would be the first thing you would do mandatory harmonic rhythm changes if you were told that you're in charge of ruling the world, but in your first thing that you had to do couldn't be anything serious would have to be something like super silly and fun just to like build morale.
24:51 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think you would do?
24:54 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it would be the silliest thing you would do if you were injured.
24:56 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a big icebreaker, a big deal.
24:58 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The size of the new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new
25:22 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
25:23 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to do.
25:25 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good.
25:25 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would you got what you're answering?
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know.
25:28 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I usually like think the roses and thorns, like the best thing and worse thing that happened to you today.
25:33 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that would get dark because some places in the world have really bad things that happen.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The ones are pretty sharp.
25:38 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thorns are sharp.
25:39 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
25:40 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just give everyone the day off, I think, and just go home and take a nap, but that's not productive.
25:47 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it shouldn't be.
25:48 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why I shouldn't be in charge.
25:49 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm middle management at best.
25:52 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't agree, though, that everybody wants to argue.
25:55 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Forget about us, like specifically, the song is sort of talking about what results from everybody pushing to get more power.
26:04 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I do agree with them.
26:06 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that that means every person wants to rule the world, but there is this sort of universal fear that causes people to grab before something gets grabbed.
26:17 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, most wars have started between like, just about power and control, like that's all, an ideology.
26:19 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it goes back to, like, the guitar solo.
26:20 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And guitar solo is.
26:20 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_01]: [♪ music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background
26:44 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know what you think on social media, would never music pod on all the major platforms.
26:49 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also send us an email at nevermusicpod at gmail.com.
26:52 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Every so often, we'll do a mail bag episode, we'll answer your burning questions.
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.