What words do we overuse? What happens if Taylor Swift were to write lyrics to our theme music? The circle of what exactly? In this final Sidetrack of Season 2, we celebrate the end of an era by quizzing each other! Who’s coming out on top? We wrap by asking each other some earnest questions about our expertise, some of which might lead to some future episode topics. Season 3 starts next week!
Music heard in this episode: Antonio Vivaldi - Concerto No. 1 in E major, Op. 8, RV 269, ‘Spring’ (La primavera), I. Allegro (Baroque Festival Orchestra)
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't give it to you.
00:02 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a court.
00:03 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You were even there.
00:04 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You were talking about chords.
00:06 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You were talking about spinning.
00:07 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I think you should give it to me, because I described it right.
00:10 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I just got thrown off.
00:11 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You did not.
00:12 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You described the circle of questions.
00:14 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: How do students feel with these questions?
00:17 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're tricky.
00:18 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I would never give this question to a student, because it is beneath them.
00:51 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking I think we like went and ranked our episodes like our favorite episodes.
00:57 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't do that but it was it was called the season one award show and we did like oh what was the funniest moment what was the I don't know the most emotionally satisfying music thing I don't know that was stuff like that I don't want to do that again we don't want to do that again
01:13 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: we are trying to live life to the fullest, be fun whenever possible.
01:20 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Does this increase the fun in our lives?
01:23 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Is the question we should be asking when we're making decisions?
01:27 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And we are doing a quiz show today.
01:30 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds great.
01:33 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds great.
01:33 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of questions.
01:34 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually ready for it.
01:36 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You're ready for it.
01:36 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
01:37 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Because what we're doing?
01:38 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Listeners.
01:39 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We are, and maybe let's talk a little bit in a minute about season three and what's going on starting next week.
01:45 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But we are.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Quizzing each other.
01:48 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: What I have is 10 questions for you to see what you've learned.
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So some of this is music stuff.
01:54 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of it's maybe random, other trivia, but we're you listening.
01:58 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I also have five questions for you that are not me testing you that are literally, I'm curious, I want the answer, I'm asking my psychologist, friends.
02:06 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Did we prep the same way?
02:09 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we didn't prep the same alarm Jesus because it's like how it goes for us.
02:13 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have five questions for you about psychology, seeing if you listened to me and paid attention, and synthesized the knowledge that was playing part on you.
02:23 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Five.
02:24 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I have five questions for you, additionally, about all these stuff that I'm interested in.
02:30 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So we do not read the memo the same way.
02:32 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
02:33 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So cool.
02:34 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's what we're going to do.
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do two, you do one.
02:37 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I wear you do one, I do two, and we're going to see if it goes well.
02:41 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And we each have though.
02:43 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Real five earnest questions for each other about our expertise at the X4.
02:48 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The first set may be more little more fesicious.
02:51 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's quiz each other, but also just...
02:53 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
02:54 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll inspire future episodes based on the last sets of questions.
02:57 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you will be proud of me though, Mark.
02:59 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I do have like, hit the titles for each of my questions.
03:03 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have 50 titles, but awesome.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to yours.
03:06 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Like so cool.
03:08 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I re-litigate a question that came up on one of our recent episodes?
03:13 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, the listeners have heard it come up a lot, which is this idea of, but you always start first, Mark.
03:22 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Where you say that, and I say, you can't say that every time will you believe that I found out actually.
03:30 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Within reason, I used reasonable methods to find out, which is to say,
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: the accounting of it.
03:38 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I could be wrong on a few of these, but as far as I can tell, in season 2, I went for and when I say went first, meaning we did music stuff first and then went psychology.
03:47 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I went first 10 times in season 2.
03:50 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Nicole went first 16 times in season 2.
03:54 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that can't be right, Mark.
03:56 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You literally went first, more than me.
03:59 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just that, oh, Mark always goes first as false.
04:02 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the exact opposite of true.
04:04 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: However, I know why you think that.
04:06 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I know why you think that because he's in one.
04:09 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So in season one, it makes a little more sense because we were like recording in batches.
04:14 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The episodes were shorter.
04:15 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We were just kind of like, okay, we're doing four episodes.
04:18 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go and I took the notes out first.
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But season one, it's very different.
04:22 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I went first 24 times, you went first five.
04:26 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm not 100% confident on all the numbers, but what this is is self-correcting mechanism.
04:33 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We realized in season one, like this is a little better, maybe if we flip it a little bit and did we over-correct?
04:41 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think we over-corrected, but I think you really can't keep saying, you always get to go when you really go first more now.
04:47 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was just like a bias,
04:52 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Emotional labor or emotional something.
04:55 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I was carrying over from season one maybe We can even label it like a resentment that I had deep inside that I didn't realize that was manifesting in season two Maybe that's what was going on.
05:06 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for taking more time out of your daily life to prove me wrong And I appreciate the information I'm eager to see this spreadsheet a meagre to see yeah some SPSS
05:20 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And analysis, so statistical analysis software, you don't want to know about it.
05:26 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So TCS report.
05:27 --> 05:28 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is one of those you mentioned.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: This came up in I think season one like.
05:33 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: your mom still comments about how you always lose your keys it's like three years from now if we're still doing this you'll be like and mark always goes first because of that season one there was an impression that was made I think and well thank you I appreciate this insight and I'm I am capable of change so I'm gonna like shift a little bit and I'm sorry I'm sorry for calling you out it's okay you called me in
06:00 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I love how there's resentment over our process being Mark comes up with an episode title, preps music stuff, and maybe it works that I share that concept first, build resentment.
06:12 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
06:12 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
06:13 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So for season three, folks tune in.
06:16 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_01]: as soon as next week we will be starting season three.
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to tease the songs.
06:21 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Y'all it's going to be great stuff.
06:23 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Going to have to be surprised by that.
06:25 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this episode actually is a good not only a good wrap up to season two, but a good inauguration of something we're going to try to do more in season.
06:34 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, I think for me, aspirationally for season three, I'm going to try to match your level of prep and preparedness because I know some growing resentment that I show up just looking cute and being funny and with all my drinks.
06:52 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_00]: and make a dynamic impact on the mic, despite a lack of preparedness, and I think I'm going to try a little bit harder to be present and mindful to your needs in season three, Mark.
07:04 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_01]: What red blooded American man would resent a co-host coming in looking cute Nicole.
07:10 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
07:13 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_01]: No, this we see I'm not the one saying our process needs to change.
07:17 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You are okay.
07:17 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So okay.
07:19 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to do more games and fun stuff.
07:21 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
07:21 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're still going to have guests.
07:22 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_01]: We're still going to do a lot of that.
07:24 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But we are thinking fewer lists more conversations.
07:27 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We have some conversations side tracks we want to have.
07:30 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_01]: where we're not just like, what are your top five base guitar picks, right?
07:35 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not necessarily doing that, but we might have some guests, maybe groups of guests doing stuff like quizzes or drafts or like weird goofy stuff like that, just to kind of live and things up, I don't think our main episodes are going to change that much, though.
07:52 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, those are awesome the way they are.
07:54 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we can always iterate and we can always get better, but I think season two, we really hit our groove with like what the feel of a main episode is for nevermind the music.
08:05 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think sidetracks, I love season one sidetracks that were just they began as a place to put our
08:13 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Conversations that went awry, you know, they began as a place to use all that great content that we couldn't jam into a main episode that we needed a function.
08:21 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So we created the sidetracks to put that information and I'd love to get back to that because I think you and I just yapping is.
08:29 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
08:30 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What we did in season two is those conversations still happen.
08:32 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They just lived in the main episodes.
08:34 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that will still be true.
08:36 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll still have random side questing in our main episodes, but there's a lot of conversations that we've been like, let's talk about that later, right?
08:45 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:45 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We should just talk about them.
08:47 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe season four, if we still have a functioning relationship.
08:53 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_01]: season 4 will be back to lists and we'll just be listing.
08:56 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Allus, if we're still friends in a year, that's where we go back to lists.
09:00 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel hopeful.
09:01 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And schedule wise, we will still be recording in batches where it's like spring break.
09:06 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's record three episodes.
09:08 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So we won't be weekly recording, but it won't be recording 54 episodes in the month of August or anything crazy like that.
09:15 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So awesome.
09:17 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
09:18 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get to it.
09:19 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We are following one hit thunder quiz rules shout out to the one hit thunder podcast featuring past guest Chris Fathalios and past guest Matthew Kelly who inspired this game because they do tons of quizzes.
09:35 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you have you done a quiz?
09:36 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you win?
09:37 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't win, but I feel like the deck was stacked for me.
09:42 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Matthew Kelly has an unfair knowledge
09:45 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if they were all psychology questions, I would have crushed it, but they were like pop culture music questions, which I have like a good knowledge based on, but not.
09:54 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: There are room full of professionals in that arena, and I'm not.
09:58 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I am one and one.
09:58 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I have one, one of them and lost one of them.
10:00 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, triumphant close victory, and then really outrageous, lopsided loss in my other appearance on their show.
10:08 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The rules that we're following stealing from that podcast is, we are keeping score.
10:13 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how we're going to do it with the fact that I have 10 questions for you and you have five for me, but the goal was to post to be, the rules would be, if you can get the answer without even getting multiple choice, you get two points.
10:26 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: if you need the multiple choice, you get one point.
10:30 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how it's supposed to work.
10:32 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: They also have it if you guess wrong, you'll lose a point.
10:35 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But we don't need to do that because we're not competing on the same questions.
10:38 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So can we do that and then just like double my score or something since all maybe make them all worth double for me?
10:44 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so confident that I think we should just use
10:49 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This scoring system you're outlining and I think I can beat you you're you're so confident.
10:54 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You literally have twice as many opportunities to score points is me Yes, you should be confident.
10:59 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know how about this.
11:00 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Have what we do this.
11:01 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I have literally have the questions score points on you.
11:04 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so confident.
11:05 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I can beat you even though I only get five questions and you get 10 points.
11:09 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it fine.
11:10 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to try to give myself or give yourself a handicap because you have
11:13 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: more questions but no man I'm gonna beat you I'm gonna get them all right without even using the multiple choice why don't you go first and then I will go next okay are you gonna keep score yeah I'll keep score you're better at it you're like a professional score keeper I've got my column so I've got an M and then I've got an N and I'm going to telly go ahead this is great podcasting so question one
11:38 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The Big Five, or how many personality traits can a music professor name?
11:45 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: When we talk about biological trait theory and personality, psychologists use what's called the, quote, Big Five, there's a handy acronym for remembering all five traits.
11:56 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: One is the acronym.
11:58 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a season two question.
12:00 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This feels very season one.
12:02 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I do need the multiple choice.
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:05 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_00]: A, ocean.
12:07 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: B, crisp.
12:09 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: C notes or D, beach.
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely ocean.
12:14 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It is ocean.
12:15 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a correct answer, Mark.
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get one point.
12:18 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I really think listeners write in.
12:21 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is season one, but maybe it's late season one.
12:24 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe I'm wrong.
12:25 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was so long ago.
12:26 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember what episode that comes from?
12:27 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's early in season two.
12:29 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's in the first couple episode.
12:31 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I got it.
12:31 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What is ocean stand for?
12:32 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you just fill me in on that?
12:34 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
12:35 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an acronym that stands for openness, like openness to new experiences.
12:39 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: See, conscientiousness, e extroversion, slash introversion, a agreeableness and n neuroticism.
12:48 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But we don't really call it neuroticism anymore.
12:52 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We call it emotional stability because the traumatic is really.
12:56 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But the acronym doesn't work with that.
12:58 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Shini, yeah.
13:00 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, I got one.
13:01 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way I would have gotten that with that multiple choice that's brutal.
13:04 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
13:05 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I go next.
13:06 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:08 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: In episode 57, Cardigan, by Taylor Swift, Mark claims to have cracked the code of Taylor's collaboration with producer Aaron Desner.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: What does Mark think the two of them do in almost every song?
13:20 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You said that Erin just sends her track and then she like layers on poetry on the track.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, we talked about that.
13:29 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that they do that with the other albums that happened in folklore.
13:32 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what the point of the episode, like the point, the code that was cracked.
13:37 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like the multiple choice?
13:39 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, is it A?
13:41 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm asking what does Mark think the two of them do in every song, right?
13:45 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_01]: A, a syncopation in the piano.
13:47 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: B, a pickup in the piano.
13:50 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: C, a minor chord in the piano.
13:52 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: D, a falling fourth in the piano.
13:55 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And the cardigan.
13:57 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Cardigan plus other songs.
13:59 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a pickup, just due to, due to, and it falls in, oh, but the falling.
14:08 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna say pick up, but I think I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go with it because that's my instinct.
14:12 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got it.
14:13 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes!
14:13 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So the anacrusis, but uh, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done,
14:31 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
14:31 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:32 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_01]: In episode 85 on dreams by Fleetwood Mac, you talked about breakups in grieving.
14:38 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I brought up unresolved chord progressions, vocal harmonies, and awesome production techniques.
14:44 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But none of these were actually the topic I brought up.
14:47 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_01]: What the hell was Mark talking about in that episode?
14:51 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And dreams by the mask started by talking about like,
14:56 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, that was the haem episode.
14:58 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this good podcasting?
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Me thinking?
15:01 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking off the wood Mack with the haem episode because it like, silent, Christine McVee and Cheryl Crowley.
15:07 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they can't, that was a few, I was like a month earlier.
15:09 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
15:11 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_01]: All those things that I listed we talked about, but none of them were the thing.
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember what the thing was?
15:16 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing in dreams.
15:20 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If I get it wrong, if I commit to a question, and then get it wrong, can I still get the multiple choice after?
15:25 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
15:26 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: In this respect, because we're not directly competing against each other, you can still get the multiple choice.
15:31 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I think it was about like a layering of production or something.
15:36 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There was something about that.
15:37 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that was one of the things that I listed off that was also talked about.
15:41 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not right.
15:41 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Your options are A, phrase, illusion, and overlap.
15:45 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_01]: B, melody ignoring the chord progression.
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: C, form as related to storytelling or D, rhythmic displacement of the melody.
15:54 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I see their ARD, I think it's a, that's my instinct.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Final answer.
15:59 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it again.
15:59 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Frasal is in an overlap.
16:01 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to, the multiple choice is going to trigger a lot of them.
16:06 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be hard to get without the multiple choice, but hard to get with it.
16:10 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Hard to get it wrong with it.
16:12 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You're up.
16:13 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
16:14 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Question two.
16:15 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Roy adverse this young, a cage match for the ages.
16:19 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Before I get to the question, I also want to say next season, I really want to talk about Freud and young because they had the weird and his relationship and we got to talk about it.
16:27 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this season, we talked about Carl Young and his archetypes, specifically the shadow self that is this dark repressed side of the psyche that we pretend kind of doesn't exist.
16:38 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_00]: If you had to map onto Freud's classical personality triad, which Freudian structure best lines
16:49 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_01]: which personality structure, repeat the question part of the question again.
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll actually even rephrase it for you.
16:58 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Who?
16:58 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to think of segment Freud's three main personality.
17:04 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I got that.
17:05 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have that in mind.
17:07 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And then think of Carl Young's shadow self, which of Freud's personality areas is most like the shadow self.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, Mark.
17:20 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:21 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm thinking it is like your, your devil on your shoulder, your lizard brain that just, and the shadow self must be some kind of, that one I'm not totally sure, but it's like dark side or something.
17:33 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
17:34 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:35 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Two points.
17:36 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Two points.
17:37 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
17:38 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That's annoying.
17:39 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: My questions are going to be too easy.
17:40 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that case from a rose?
17:41 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're talking about minor and major chords.
17:43 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:43 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
17:43 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good poll.
17:45 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they both represent like this dark instinctual and societally inappropriate and unacceptable version of our stuff, okay, Barry.
17:56 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
17:57 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
17:58 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
17:58 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
17:58 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
17:59 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:59 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Next question for me in episode 75 down under by men at work.
18:04 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the episode since we've talked about copyright.
18:08 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's time to test your knowledge.
18:11 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: If Taylor Swift wrote lyrics to our never mind the music theme song,
18:16 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, by the way, parenthetically, that's something new coming for season three.
18:19 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to write new not a new theme song, but new ad music.
18:23 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting so sick of the, done, done, done, done, done, done, done.
18:26 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, you're still going to hear that music, but I want to add another set of four or something in the mix.
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:32 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good Mark.
18:32 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You need more to do.
18:34 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
18:34 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the problem is it's going to take forever, but I'm an I'm an I'm a challenge myself.
18:39 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:39 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
18:40 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_01]: If Taylor Swift wrote lyrics to the never mind the music theme song and then Ryan Adams recorded a cover of that song and then the
18:57 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_01]: who needs to give permission and who would be entitled to performance royalties when the slack of the mix makes that performance.
19:05 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I can repeat it if you want.
19:07 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I got it because it's the same thing as the other, this is great.
19:11 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing as the other thing that we talked about.
19:13 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same situation.
19:14 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:16 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So can you get it without
19:18 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think what would have to happen is we would have to pay Taylor Swift, and once we pay Taylor Swift, we kind of have possession of it.
19:29 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So if Ryan Adams covered our theme song that we paid Taylor Swift, he would have to credit Taylor Swift somehow.
19:40 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you covered Ryan Adams covering us, covering you pay just the psychodemics took Ryan Adams version and covered it.
19:50 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They're free and clear.
19:51 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have to do anything.
19:53 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?
19:54 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me clearly what your answer is.
19:56 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Who has to give permission and who would be entitled to performance royalties?
20:02 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Taylor Swift wrote lyrics to the nevermind the music theme song, which to be clear was written by me.
20:07 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Ryan Adams recorded a cover of the song and the slacodemics essentially played the in the style of the Ryan Adams cover of that who needs to get permission and who would be entitled to performance royalties, at least in the vast majority of the way this works.
20:24 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We would have to get permission from Taylor Swift, but we aren't on this note.
20:28 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: The slacodemics
20:32 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We are not a part of this at all actually, right?
20:35 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
20:35 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am.
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the Sliconemics, but... Yeah.
20:38 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:39 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm going to say the Sliconemics don't need permission from anybody.
20:42 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:43 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's for educational purposes.
20:45 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Sliconemics playing a show.
20:47 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:47 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:48 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the Sliconemics don't need to get permission from anybody.
20:51 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_01]: What about performance royalties?
20:53 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Sliconemics get all the performance royalties.
20:56 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:57 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I right?
20:58 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not 100% right.
21:00 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And well, it's a two-part question, which is tricky.
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of weird.
21:03 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me, I'll read you the, you don't get credit for the full double points.
21:08 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I will read you the royalties or the, the answer.
21:10 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_01]: A, all royalties go to Mark.
21:13 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_01]: No permission needed.
21:15 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_01]: B, Mark and Taylor split the royalties, Ryan's permission needed.
21:20 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: C, royalties split between Mark, Taylor and Ryan, everyone's permission needed, or D, Mark and Taylor split the royalties, no permission needed.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I think my answer best tracks with A.
21:32 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But you can just do what you want as the SLACADEMICS.
21:35 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_01]: OK.
21:36 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The answer is, Mark and Taylor Swift split the royalties and no permission will be needed.
21:41 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: You can just play the song.
21:43 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I never would have to get permission from Taylor for any of the music I own.
21:46 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The SLACADEMICS have to pay me, essentially, the performance royalties.
21:52 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_01]: For a performance assuming it was illegal performance, you can't.
21:55 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: do you have to do life performance you the venue often is paying the performance licensing and that would go that would be split presumably Taylor probably got permission from me to set the music to lyrics and Taylor you've got my permission.
22:10 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
22:11 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But she that she and I then split the performance royalties because we both she owns the copyright on the text I own the copyright on the music, but you don't expressly need permission to perform it You can just do it.
22:21 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You just gotta pay the royalty.
22:23 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So it Ryan Adams is completely irrelevant
22:26 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, because he's doing a cover and now if he sold an album with the covers, which he has, then he would get some of the money when you buy the album or whatever, but he wouldn't get the songwriters cut.
22:37 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_01]: No performance royalties.
22:39 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:40 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, so tricky one.
22:41 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I got you on that one.
22:42 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We've always, we've always stumbled a little bit with the copyright stuff.
22:45 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So here we are.
22:46 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's interesting, too, because when you say mark, I'm like, is it never mind the music mark?
22:50 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it's like a Demix mark?
22:52 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like who are you representing?
22:54 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: The black dynamics would be paying licensing fees and the licensing company would then pay royalties to Mark.
23:02 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But Mark is part of who's paying that royalty.
23:05 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a flaw in the warning of your question to be honest.
23:08 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
23:09 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, Mark.
23:09 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:09 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Professor Mark.
23:11 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't say who would be paying royalties.
23:13 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I said who would be entitled to the royalties, right?
23:16 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's irrelevant who's paying it.
23:17 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Because actually it's unclear who's paying it.
23:19 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's usually not going to be the suck at annex payment royalties.
23:21 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the club owner would be paying the royalties.
23:24 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I think for season three, I think we need to put copyright watch to bet.
23:29 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Like where does it end?
23:30 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Where does it end is a fair question?
23:32 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
23:33 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not willing to retire copyright watch, but copyright watch could be forcibly retired by act of our listeners.
23:40 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure.
23:41 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But like any time, we talk about copyright.
23:43 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I need you to bring out a white board and like draw it out for me because it's just, I get alt-fulfilled.
23:48 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I'd get you on this one because I think the permission piece often shows you
23:53 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: here you were dead on on the permission.
23:55 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: You had it.
23:55 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't need any permission.
23:57 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning and I didn't know that six to nine months ago.
24:01 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is great.
24:02 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Just why you were like half right here.
24:03 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
24:04 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Number four.
24:05 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: According to Michael Sorazio in episode 80.
24:09 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Which of these is an AI band?
24:11 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you remember the name of the AI band?
24:13 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: If you I'll give you the multiple choice obviously, but do you know the name of the
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_00]: correct.
24:23 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like velvet smoke was it velvet smoke?
24:27 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Final answer.
24:29 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so close.
24:31 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That was an inspired answer because he actually mentioned two AI bands and one of them is called velvet sundown.
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I knew was something like that.
24:40 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_01]: If you got velvet sundown correct, obviously, but you're so close, but it's one of them give you the multiple choice.
24:46 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:46 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Which of these is an
24:51 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: B, five iron frenzy, C, breaking rust, D, Nemesis Knight.
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The crab joy is from Superman, it's from Superman universe.
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that, so way to go.
25:05 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the third one.
25:06 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you say that third one again?
25:07 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Breaking rust.
25:09 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Breaking rust.
25:10 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's breaking rust, you got it.
25:12 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, five of our friends, he's a real band and it came up in one of our episodes and Nemesis Knight I just use a random band name generator to come up with that.
25:20 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You got it, breaking for us and velvet sundown.
25:22 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like pretty cool, but it was like impressively and even talked about the superman stuff too.
25:29 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was a very good showing there.
25:31 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're up.
25:51 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_00]: World's OK is parent, a multiple choice adventure.
25:54 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You are a parent.
25:56 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Correct?
25:57 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
25:57 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I got it.
25:58 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Which parenting style does developmental psychology say is theoretically the best one for raising a well-adjusted human?
26:05 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no recollection of when we talked about this.
26:08 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I need the multiple choice.
26:10 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Authoritarian, which is my house.
26:13 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_00]: My rules, no questions asked, right?
26:15 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Authoritarians are strict disciplinarians.
26:18 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
26:18 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: be authoritative, which means like we have rules, we have feelings and we can work together to talk about them, see permissive that you're, we're friends, but you're my kid and we're just going to vibe or D uninvolved, which we used to call neglectful, which means that like obviously
26:42 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, correct answer.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And the moment you set a authoritarian, I knew nope.
26:45 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's Tative.
26:47 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Which episode is that?
26:48 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
26:49 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish I like kept track when I was writing my questions.
26:52 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Are those actually four real styles?
26:55 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the question, if your goal is to trip me up, you almost need to like come up with a BS1 sounds good because like I'm not choosing uninvolved.
27:04 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the question.
27:06 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's choosing that.
27:07 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, they're choosing neglectful.
27:08 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the move.
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I got one point on that.
27:12 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm next.
27:14 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a lot of people get authoritative and authoritarian mixed up to kind of sound listening, but it's about warmth and structure.
27:19 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
27:19 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_00]: What high structure, but also warmth and parenting.
27:22 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
27:23 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So in episode 95 on Don't Speak by no doubt, I explained pivot chord modulations and you talked about the drastic changes to Gwen Stefani's personal style through the years.
27:35 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We may or may not have successfully connected these ideas because a pivot
27:42 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: because it does what?
27:43 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: What makes a pivot chord modulation different from other modulations?
27:47 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_00]: What makes a pivot chord modulation different than other modulations?
27:51 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is my own words here.
27:53 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't Mark's speak, but other modulations like our, let's say it's like a switch flips and a pivot chord modulation.
28:01 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: it's like a slower burn like it it builds and like you don't really even notice that it's changing then all of a sudden you're in a new court and you're like oh what happened I'm in a new court now can you give me a little you're correct in spirit so can you give me how a little bit of how before I read the multiple choice to see if you get you can get kind of how that happens you'll get your two points
28:25 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: again, this is like my own words here.
28:26 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So if there's like three notes in a chord, the two chords that you're shifting in your switching to share one of those notes, and it just takes the note from the first chord in length.
28:37 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're not, we're not shifting between chords.
28:40 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We are shifting between keys.
28:42 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He's, yes, for sure.
28:43 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me go back.
28:44 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:45 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: each key has several cords and you take a cord from key A that's also in key B and like slowly start tempering it in, you got it.
28:56 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when you're like baking and you have like hot butter and you put eggs in, you can't put all the eggs in at once because it's still scrambling.
29:03 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That's better than the tunnel and I was it.
29:06 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
29:06 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So you got to get that's how I think of it.
29:08 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The two keys have a cords in common and you use the cords they share in common as a pivot.
29:12 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it, you've got it
29:39 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: with a main problem of birth or no, no, no, no, no, sorry.
29:41 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the main problem of that theory applied in this context?
29:45 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, obviously, main problem, birth order theory.
29:47 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You can challenge the research through a scientific, clue journal or whatever later.
29:51 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But why does it not, it was fun to talk about, but why is it, why does it not work here?
29:58 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And what were you, can you read the first part of the question and what were you talking about in that episode?
30:01 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how what was I talking about in the episode?
30:03 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about melody stuff.
30:06 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about it's irrelevant to the brothers, really.
30:11 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: You invoked birth order theory to describe how no songwriting a mastermind aspect suit the role of the eldest, while the charisma and rebellion of Liam fit the model of the youngest.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, did I flip flop them?
30:22 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Or it wasn't like no, all younger and Liam was older?
30:26 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:26 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only thing I can think of, but I don't really, I'm just going to read the minute.
30:30 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to be clear, if you're right, I'll give you the two, but just so we're clear on terminology and stuff, I will read it to you, A, Noel is actually the middle brother.
30:40 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_01]: B, Liam is actually older than Noel, which I think is what you said, C, they are actually twins, D, they are not actually brothers, it's B. Liam is actually older than all.
30:53 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:53 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: No, Liam is younger, but no is a middle, right?
30:56 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like Paul, there's a middle, yeah.
30:59 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we were talking about how, like, okay, that makes sense, but except it doesn't.
31:03 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The oldest brother is some guy, some guy.
31:06 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought you would get that one.
31:08 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
31:08 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Quiz me, go.
31:09 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's driving this thing?
31:10 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-oh.
31:11 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Locus of control.
31:12 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
31:13 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That's Tracy Chapman, I think.
31:15 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
31:16 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:17 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you just describe what the difference is between internal and external
31:22 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I can try.
31:23 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a good one where I can at least try without the multiple choice.
31:27 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Internal locus of control, I guess you would say somebody has an internal locus of control where they think they are in the driver's seat for the circumstances of their life and their behavior that they are
31:41 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_01]: taking agency essentially for it, whereas an external locus of control is that the control over your life, your behavior even, your circumstances are outside of your control.
31:53 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like poverty or a war happening or whatever.
31:59 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my answer.
32:00 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's correct.
32:00 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
32:01 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:03 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Sweet.
32:04 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's easy.
32:05 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
32:06 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that one was easy.
32:07 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for the easy talk.
32:08 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're welcome.
32:09 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, some of those ones where you're quizzing me about stuff that happened when we talked about kiss from a rose.
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what?
32:15 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That was like a year ago, whereas Trace Chapman was at a few months ago.
32:19 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all right.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Not that bad.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Few more.
32:21 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: In episode 67 on Hello by Lionel Richie, speaking of a long time ago.
32:26 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh God.
32:27 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_01]: While he's creepily pursuing his blind student in the video, of course.
32:31 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Lionel Richie is singing along to a circle of fifth sequence.
32:35 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
32:35 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: This technique is also found in such songs as I will survive.
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_01]: What the hell is it?
32:41 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_01]: A circle of the sequence.
32:42 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Circle of the sequence.
32:44 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Circle of the sequence.
32:46 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So Nicole's own words, right?
32:49 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're checking for synthesis and understanding.
32:53 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The circle of fifths is almost like a road map for music, right?
32:57 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's got all the key, the chords on it, the keys, and you're like, it's like a mathematical sequence you can follow to make music sound good.
33:08 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's if you follow the map that the circle of fifths lays out for you.
33:13 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is my answer?
33:14 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: A circle of fifths sequence would be like be specific.
33:18 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: A circle of fifth sequence would be a suggested sequence of cords.
33:24 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
33:25 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Layed out in the circle of fifths that's like proven to sound good.
33:29 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Or like we know that it like works in music.
33:33 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a natural progression of chords.
33:35 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
33:36 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Be specific.
33:37 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: What is that progression?
33:38 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: When you say follow the circle of fifths, what do you mean?
33:44 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you're on the right track, but you have to like, tell me what that actually means, right?
33:49 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That means like you do like the third, the fifth and the seventh, or like the third, yeah, or like the first, the third and the fifth.
33:56 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you've made a chord, the roots of the third and the fifth.
33:59 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Fine.
33:59 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now yeah.
34:01 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Now you make, you like, spin the circle and like use the same map.
34:05 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like astrological mapping, like pretty much.
34:08 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving you the multiple, I'm sorry, you've come close, but you're not close enough to be right because you're forgetting.
34:14 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that the circle of fifths is like a diagram you put on the music theory class board when you're in a middle school or whatever, but it's also a sequence.
34:21 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a sequence, right?
34:23 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So the multiple choice is A, a melodic pattern of leaps of a fifth.
34:28 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_01]: B, a rhythmic pattern of consecutive fifth notes.
34:32 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: C, a chord pattern of root notes moving by falling fifths, or D, a formal pattern in five sections.
34:41 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a.
34:42 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not a. I'm a lot of pattern of Leafs of a fifth.
34:45 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like bum bum bum bum bum bum bum.
34:48 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's it's fought.
34:49 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a chord for you.
34:50 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You were so close.
34:50 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a chord progression where you just keep falling by fifth.
34:54 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum.
34:58 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you should give it to me.
34:59 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I am.
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The listeners want me to get that point.
35:02 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the listeners are going to get a lot of heat if you don't give me that point because like you're right and the listeners the listeners were listening and when I read the options they heard see and they went she's kind of get it she's going to get it and then you went with a it really has absolutely nothing to do with melody not even in the slightest so I can't get it to you.
35:21 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a court you were even there you were like the chords are you were talking about chords and we're talking about Spending it.
35:26 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I think you should give it to me because I described it right.
35:29 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I just got thrown off.
35:30 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: You did not you described the circle of this chart to students feel with these questions because you're tricky.
35:37 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I would never give this question to a student because it is beneath them.
35:43 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
35:44 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
35:45 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, mine too.
35:45 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You think I'm asking my psych students for the locus of control is give me a break.
35:49 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's just like one of those.
35:51 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They would have to write a circle of fifth sequence, right?
35:54 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be the more age-appropriate question.
35:58 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew I, some of these questions are ones that I think you're getting and some of them I'm doing because I'm like, I remember Nicole confusing this.
36:05 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is one of those.
36:07 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can't put it on that episode.
36:09 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like listeners, we usually record our episodes like first thing in the morning when like coffee's fresh.
36:15 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But that episode, we recorded like later in the day because schedules made it that way.
36:21 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And I learned that I can't do this type of work late in the day.
36:24 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Lay in the day is meant for creative tasks, a gardening, and like reading books.
36:29 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not meant for math and music.
36:32 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And circles of fifths.
36:34 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so various numbers, no thanks.
36:36 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_01]: In episode 88, we talked about songs that make us cry.
36:40 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually did when talking about a live with the glory of love by say anything.
36:45 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But I described how I'm usually able to stay stone-faced on an emotional song, but the waterworks will almost always come if I'm doing what?
36:56 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The waterworks will almost always come.
37:00 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I described how I'm usually able to stay stone-faced on an emotional song.
37:04 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But the waterworks will almost always come if I'm doing what?
37:07 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it like...
37:09 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_00]: not seeing live, but like singing to your kids or something like that or singing to your wife.
37:16 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving it to you because singing, just singing the song, if I'm singing the song, I get all choked up.
37:22 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I can listen usually unless I'm on a podcast recording.
37:25 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I can usually listen to it and be fine, but the moment you're like, it was, the context was, yeah, singing the song to a kid and like, oh my god, I can't, the song is too sad.
37:33 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You got it?
37:34 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Two points, bingo.
37:36 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
37:36 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like something like saying it out loud.
37:39 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It comes more cathartic.
37:40 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like very annoying.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Same for me totally.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_01]: What about normal means?
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, you got one more for me?
37:45 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
37:46 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Sweet.
37:47 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Love actually.
37:48 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The Sternberg triangular pop whizz.
37:51 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love the Sternberg.
37:53 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
37:54 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Love triangle.
37:55 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I see it.
37:56 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was like the like, oh, this is, uh, can we connect it to it?
38:01 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: There was stuff like that.
38:02 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the question.
38:02 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me ask the question.
38:04 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Robert Sternberg said that love has three components, intimacy, passion, and commitment.
38:09 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_00]: The combination of all three is like the gold standard for love relationships.
38:15 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
38:16 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: What did he call the type of love that has all three components?
38:20 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Crap.
38:21 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
38:22 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I kind of rebuild this on live TV?
38:25 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
38:25 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's the triangle is, because this is, um,
38:31 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Luther, Luther, that Luther episode.
38:34 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got like, that's a great episode.
38:37 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Intimacy, we've got passion or something like that.
38:40 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've got, did you just say what the three points were?
38:43 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Or no?
38:44 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, yep, intimacy, passion and commitment.
38:48 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I might be getting it wrong, but it's like passion, plus commitment.
38:54 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I might be getting it wrong.
38:54 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That one might be called like, come, pan unit or something.
38:58 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one called romantic.
39:00 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's passion and intimacy or something like that.
39:05 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's one called like,
39:07 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: fixative or there's one on the side that's like in factuous or something but the one that's all of them I think is called consummate love did I get it you're right I'm trying messed up the side triangles but I got you messed up the sides a little because once you were looking at a passion and commitment is called fat factuous love love and intimacy companion love is intimacy and commitment with no passion passionate love is
39:37 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_00]: just passionate, which sounds exhausting to me, but that's fine.
39:41 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the one that combines all of them, the one that's in the middle of the triangle, is a constant love.
39:47 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where, A, that episode was more recent than some of these ancient ones we've been talking about.
39:53 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, my brain loves a good, like category system.
39:57 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, with your constitution and your charisma or high enough, you can be a pallid in here.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're a wisdom and high enough, you can be a ranger.
40:04 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sort of fits my brain.
40:06 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
40:06 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:07 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
40:08 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That was your last question, right?
40:10 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
40:10 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
40:10 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So in episode 73, it wasn't me by Shaggy.
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:15 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark makes an argument about how the length of each rhythm corresponded to how much the word was supposed to be emphasized and understood in the story.
40:23 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But let's face it.
40:25 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of this song's unintelligibility for two American academics is because Shaggy built his singing style trying to sound like what?
40:33 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Shaggy built his singing style, trying to sound like what?
40:40 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It was something so weird.
40:43 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You could also sign to sound like what or sound like who is another way to think about it.
40:47 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was just trying to sound like somebody.
40:50 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just say as you're answering,
40:54 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Despite me having, I've given you eight questions.
40:57 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You've given me five.
40:59 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I have one more point than you.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a headache.
41:02 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You have seven.
41:03 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can, if you can get either of these next two, you're going to win despite your structural advantage.
41:09 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, what does Shagwell, what did he use to inspire his vocals?
41:17 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It was something like an advertisement or something.
41:21 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You need a multiple choice.
41:22 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I can't do it.
41:26 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, who was it?
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Who was she the singer?
41:28 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't Scooby-do.
41:32 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that.
41:32 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that's one of your multiple choice questions.
41:36 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Scooby-do definitely was a part of that episode though.
41:38 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
41:40 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me the multiple choice.
41:42 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Zoinks.
41:44 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_01]: A, his high school math teacher, B, his comedian uncle, C, a cartoon character, D, his drill sergeant.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just Joel Sargent.
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You got it.
41:57 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we are tied.
41:58 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You got it.
41:59 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We are both tied at the hate that.
42:01 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's tricky.
42:03 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, question number 10.
42:06 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
42:06 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that I am at a structural disadvantage here because I think you'll probably get this one.
42:11 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: The question is will you get it with two points or one?
42:16 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Which word do I think you have overused during season two?
42:20 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_00]: grit.
42:20 --> 42:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got it.
42:22 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, you beat me by two.
42:24 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I carry to you my, um, my multiple choice.
42:28 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
42:28 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is an extra credit question for me.
42:30 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Great for me.
42:31 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, grit.
42:32 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Be.
42:32 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It's grit.
42:33 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: See grit, but also iconic.
42:36 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: D all of the above.
42:40 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I also say I love it a lot and I say interesting way too much um I love it.
42:47 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
42:47 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just funny because grit was like Not in the lexicon and then it was a very important kind of part of your blondie episode and then it's just I I hear you on like severance and you're like like Carol has such a grit.
43:00 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like no, what are we gonna the best one?
43:02 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
43:03 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Please grit and resilience.
43:05 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that if I was
43:06 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone asked me a question, like, what, you know, me and my friends talk about weird stuff, but they asked me like, what do you think this life, your lesson of this lifetime is?
43:16 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this iteration of your life, if you think about reincarnation, this cycle that you're going through, what is, what were you put here to learn?
43:22 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And mine is like grit and resilience.
43:25 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm doing it.
43:26 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's great.
43:27 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was funny, some point in the middle of the season, you used it, and I was confused by your use of it.
43:33 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, no, the voice is gritty.
43:35 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, you're talking about gritty, like, actual, yeah, like a husky voice.
43:39 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a gravel meaner.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like who was it?
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember, but one of the, a song.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You won.
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You won 10 points.
43:46 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got the tick marks five tallies for with a slash twice.
43:51 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You won five to eight.
43:53 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I gave you a pretty good run considering I only have five questions, but you know, Mark, this is doing nothing to like motivate me to be more prepared next season because I'm getting reinforced by being less prepared work.
44:05 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I have to say as much as I was winding like I have to say it.
44:09 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I do hear the episodes more than you because I edit them so I have a double chance You had a double chance to get points, but I have a double chance to learn because I'm also hearing you Saying like and that's consummate love.
44:25 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, no rewind it.
44:26 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, edit the breath.
44:26 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's compete consummate love Yeah, it's consummate like I hear it a million times So maybe I have an advantage despite that advantage you still lost
44:34 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, damn with it.
44:36 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a fair fight though.
44:37 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It was close.
44:38 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It was in a blowout.
44:39 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's bad when it's a blowout.
44:40 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got five questions for the other about our expertise.
44:44 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_01]: My proposition is let's try to keep the answers quick and light.
44:48 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they're not, that tells us stop.
44:52 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We should do that.
44:52 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Put it on the list.
44:53 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing an episode on it.
44:54 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to pull my list up.
44:55 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not saying we don't have deep conversations to have, but we just have to inspire ourselves to do them in season three.
45:02 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, awesome.
45:16 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You won.
45:17 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
45:18 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
45:18 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've noticed that every piece of classical music that I hear blindly that I'm like, oh, I love that.
45:25 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost always fobaldi.
45:28 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering, I need to like a, a vaulty background check to know if he's an asshole or not.
45:35 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So who was of a Valdi?
45:38 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And should I feel okay about loving him?
45:40 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, was he an asshole?
45:43 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Was he like an anti-Semite or something?
45:45 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: That like, I can't like him.
45:48 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, okay, we can talk a lot.
45:50 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that much about the quality bit.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk a little bit about Antonio himself.
45:55 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we just say like, what's he an asshole?
45:57 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_01]: What's in the anti-Semite?
45:59 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And can we say he's an Italian guy from the 1700s?
46:02 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So the probably the answer might be yes to all of the other.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He had to do like time and play.
46:06 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:06 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_01]: like he probably had concupines or whatever.
46:08 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
46:09 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So the all these in Italian composer in Baroque music.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_01]: He was also violinist.
46:14 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of when you're thinking of like the orchestral compositions that he's famous for, it's often really awesome violin lines, right?
46:24 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The four seasons is probably his most well-known work.
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's the one, the the pre-Movara, the spring movement.
46:33 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_01]: which maybe I'll fly in a sample of it but you all go oh it's that right it's in commercials it's in orchestras
47:05 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really classic example of what's called retonello form.
47:10 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a concerto.
47:11 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So the fourth season is an orchestra piece, but it features a violin soloist.
47:16 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So a concerto is when you have a orchestra playing, but there's a soloist in front, almost like a song would have a lead musician, like a singer or a guitar solo or something.
47:27 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_01]: and the four seasons, that catchy bit that you hear all the time in commercials and stuff is not just because you hear it all over the place, but if you listen to the piece, you also hear it a million times.
47:39 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember when we talked about the Rondo and it has a recurring riff, retornelo is a form of broke concerto form that similarly has a recurring riff that I'll play in.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's associated with Venice,
47:53 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe like a lot of that sort of scene and so a lot of the or a lot of Italian stuff from that era very much is associated with Venice specifically and so he's kind of a master of that era.
48:07 --> 48:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not know of any crazy bummer me too.
48:13 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Racism drama with the volley with the fact that he was from the 1700s that we can put that on the side I'm sure he had a lot of crazy views, but I don't think he's particularly Associated with anything you should be worried about.
48:27 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you can love the volley and appreciate
48:31 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Antonio's music and not feel bad about it as long as you great on a curve when it comes to it.
48:36 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's someone who makes it to someone.
48:38 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love a Valdi.
48:39 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Would they be like, oh, that's so basic or like, oh, there's better people.
48:43 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you set it to someone like me, we might go that's basic.
48:47 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you set it to, but it's like, it's one of those things where like, you know, it's basic liking the Beatles.
48:55 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know who's also really good is the Beatles like the Beatles.
48:57 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all right.
48:58 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very good.
48:59 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Vivaldi is a little bit.
49:00 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to impress anybody that you know.
49:03 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, now that said, if you come and say, oh, I love primavera from the four seasons, that's not going to impress anyone, but there's like some random violence and odd, uh, or some, uh, divertimiento or whatever that.
49:17 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Some a Baroque scholar would be like, dude, you know his second.
49:20 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, like a string tree on it be like my favorite beetle song.
49:23 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd be like, oh, okay, but if I said like a honey pie is my favorite beetle song.
49:27 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He'd be like, oh, that's kind of weird interesting.
49:30 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I bet you could impress even more than that.
49:32 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You could be like something on anthology or whatever.
49:36 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I think the Valdi is low hanging fruit.
49:39 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you were saying name a broke composer, you're going to hear Bach handle.
49:49 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_01]: right you know he's not the first guy and also he's great for a reason so you're not gonna impress the musicologist it is basic but that musicologist also literally loves it so they're not gonna be like oh that sucks they're gonna say like like ask a violinist maybe they go oh the vaulty no i want paganini right that's the real violin music but i don't know it's good so okay cool basically like they've got check on it
50:16 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've said a few times and most recently I think was when we were talking to Rob Harvillea about teenagers rejecting their parents' music and you said like you've said it before teens are hardwired to reject older folks like pop culture and kind of lash out right?
50:31 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So my question is about why?
50:33 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Like
50:35 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this most often comes up in the form of like rejecting previous forms of pop culture and embracing a new and radical like hip hop or grandeur, mumble rapper, whatever.
50:45 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But the thing about it is like I feel like a lot of these things are for me always seem to grow out of evolution and like our little monkey brains.
50:53 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the weird thing is pop culture, especially mass culture, is new.
50:58 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So like we didn't evolve to like angry music because
51:01 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_01]: If you look back at music, music probably moved pretty darn slowly back in the the era of oral tradition, like you probably were listening to the same music your parents were listening to.
51:13 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You were making the same cave art that your parents were making, right?
51:18 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe there was changes, but
51:21 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So my question is, what kind of rebellion or identity shaping would have been before the creation of pop, culture and mainstream?
51:32 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I making sense?
51:33 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like that's a 21st century expression of rebellion.
51:37 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_01]: What would that expression of look like in a hunter gatherer of society, for example?
51:42 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it all goes back to the subject and we haven't really talked about it that much here, but the term personal fable comes up and we talked about that a little bit when we talked about the killers when you were young.
51:57 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Personal fable.
51:58 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
51:58 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:58 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
52:00 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This idea of personal fable really means that an adolescent needs to believe that everything they're doing is unique and different and novel.
52:09 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So when your parents say, oh, have you heard the Beatles and you're like, oh, the Beatles are gross.
52:17 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because it's not new or novel to them and they need everything they like to be new and novel.
52:23 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when your students come up to you.
52:25 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling like, oh, have you ever heard of this band called Oasis?
52:27 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_00]: However, and you say, yes, and they're like, really, like, they can't believe it.
52:32 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So how would personal fable relate to caveman times?
52:36 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It probably be, you know, their teenage cave girl goes out and finds like a new stream to fish or a new berry bush or berry fields like gather from.
52:48 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, Mom, I found this new berry bush and the mom was like, Oh, no, that's like when the old berry bush, this whole time I've been telling you to go there for years.
52:56 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like shut up, Mom, you don't even know anything.
52:59 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: These berries are the best thing I've ever had.
53:00 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate you.
53:02 --> 53:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm leaving.
53:04 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_01]: right I don't know so you think it's just would have been it wasn't it wouldn't have been music in art it would have been like oh I'm going hunting but I'm going to use a bola not that's stupid at ladle that dad uses it would have been like whatever I found like yeah I have this cooler bone arrow like that I made myself and it's better than this one that you've used forever so so you don't think it has to be.
53:23 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_01]: art.
53:24 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It just has to be some kind of way of life expression, right?
53:28 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just going against what's recommended to you because you need to be the one to discover it.
53:33 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
53:33 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So how we counter that as up and coming parents of teens is manipulate them into discovering on their own, right?
53:42 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's their idea, because if it's their idea, they're all adopted.
53:46 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't tell them what to do.
53:47 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You just have to watch them figure it out and prompt them towards what you want them to do, to long-con.
53:53 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
53:54 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds going to be a lot of, but I think it's developmental approach.
53:57 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean it's wrong.
53:57 --> 53:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that.
53:58 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a means right.
54:00 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, question for me.
54:01 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we talked a lot about musical form this season, which I really enjoyed, is there like a most common or formulaic form for a pop song?
54:14 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you had a robot write a pop song, would it be like,
54:18 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_00]: intro chorus chorus pre chorus or intro pre chorus chorus bridge chorus outro like what would be the most common what is the most common form of a pop song is there one I think there isn't because it varies too much by era right
54:38 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
54:39 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I guess the follow-up answer would be yes, but it's going to be constantly changing.
54:45 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you looked in the 1940s when like a lot of the pop music was sort of jazz inspired musical theater types of songs, you know, think like
54:58 --> 55:02 [SPEAKER_01]: They're kind of stuff that being crossed with your Frank Sinatra would have been singing.
55:02 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of those songs come from musical theater and their pop songs, but they're played in a jazzy style with a big band, that kind of a sound.
55:08 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Your most common form would have been A, A, B, A, right?
55:12 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Sinaltanius to that, the R and B, that's growing.
55:15 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_01]: the most common form would have been 12 bar blues right and so those two things are operating at the same time and then you get this transitional period in the fifties and into the early sixties where you've got like pop music that some of it is using the blues the rock and roll but some of it will still be using a a a b a like some of the early Beatles songs even were right in the kind of post
55:36 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Beatles sort of post late 60s world.
55:40 --> 55:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say I would venture to guess that verse chorus is still by far the most common song form in what you could describe as a pop song.
55:49 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So not counting EDM or certain types of hip hop and stuff that kind of are going to follow other norms.
55:55 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_01]: radio pop and so if I had to like actually write down what I thought the median one would be it would be short intro verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus end and
56:11 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, in the margins, there's pre-choruses and post-choruses, but I think there's more variation in there.
56:17 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So some kind of an intro, very few songs just go boom right off the bat.
56:22 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would say most songs don't start with the chorus, most songs start with the verse.
56:25 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So short intro, two sets of verse chorus, verse chorus, and then either a bridge or a breakdown or something, and then ending on the last chorus.
56:32 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I would say the mean would be.
56:36 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's at least the median.
56:37 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the most common.
56:40 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_01]: is going to vary by style and that could not stay along very long, right?
56:45 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, that is the right answer.
56:47 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
56:48 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I think.
56:49 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, also, it makes it as a listener, like very comforting.
56:53 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think pop music is very comforting to people because you know what to expect and you know what to like anticipate.
57:00 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But even then you have to speak the language, right?
57:03 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
57:04 --> 57:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And A-A-A-B-A, that was the language in the 19, you know, it's called American Songform.
57:09 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll probably talk about it later.
57:11 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_01]: that 32 bar form was the language of jazz and musical theater pop songs.
57:16 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what everybody expected, right?
57:19 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of us now know the language of, oh the bridge is coming, the bridge is coming or the breakdown is coming.
57:23 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And in EDM you're like, oh the drops coming, the drops coming, right?
57:26 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you feel that sense of hype if you're on the dance floor and you feel like the base goes away and it's building up like a base is coming back.
57:34 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Not just because of some physiological thing on the dance floor, but because you've heard enough of them, that it's the predictability of it that sort of makes you want it.
57:47 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually literally segueing into my next question for you.
57:51 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Great!
57:52 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_01]: about that predictability, right?
57:54 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That makes you want that drop coming.
57:56 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So it seems like the more you listen to a song or a style, the more likely you are to like it.
58:02 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, I don't think there's a lot of people that thought their favorite album was their favorite album, the first time they heard it.
58:09 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And probably even your favorite song, the first time you heard it, you probably liked it, but you grow to love it the more you hear it, right?
58:15 --> 58:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you learn its idiosyncrasies, right?
58:18 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this has a lot to do with getting a little dopamine dose when you, your brain correctly predicts the events of the song.
58:27 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There's something about like, oh, I know what's going to happen and I feel it happen as it happens.
58:32 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_01]: that maybe the correct being correct in our so-called prediction kind of helps you like it.
58:39 --> 58:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there something to this or like, but you eventually maybe get sick of something like, is there something about repeat listings that makes you like a thing because you get used to it, but even you get to like be a part of causing it to happen by predicting it happening?
58:55 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, what do you think that'll come from?
58:58 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the dopamine hit is a really interesting thing to pin when you think about this concept, because if you think about addiction, you think about that you get a little hit from dopamine and you want more of it and more of it and more of it.
59:14 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So you maybe you listen to that song over and over again.
59:17 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You start singing along with it over and over again.
59:20 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_00]: you got better at singing along to it.
59:22 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So your brain gives you a little dopamine push as well.
59:26 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of relates to this term absolute threshold that we talk about when we think of sensory processing and sensory perception.
59:35 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the minimum intensity of a stimulus that you need to notice a change or pick up the difference.
59:42 --> 59:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you hear a song for the first time, you don't need a lot of change to nose the difference because it's novel.
59:50 --> 59:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's new to you.
59:51 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't anticipate it.
59:53 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But after a while, you get better at noticing that the difference is.
59:58 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So the threshold changes and you have a lower threshold to notice the changes because it's
01:00:05 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_01]: the little things that you love about it.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't perceive that first time, maybe.
01:00:11 --> 01:00:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But the more you hear it, the more you learn it's it is in crises and recognize.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's where like somebody other first time in your classical orxtapiece or pop punk, they're like, that music all sounds the same.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But you learn the language of it.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
01:00:25 --> 01:00:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why, like, it's important for you to listen to it.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You, after a while, you, you're bored with it because you've already noticed all the changes.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing new to discover.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why some artists, you can listen to over and over again, because their music is so intricate.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's always something else to discover.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know we've talked to what Taylor Swift's a lot, but her music does this for me that,
01:00:47 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I can look at her lyrics and layer my own because there's so a lot of biographical.
01:00:54 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I can layer my own experiences on it and because my experiences are always changing, my perception of her lyrics are always changing.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So that keeps it interesting to me.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Plus there's just a lot of texture in a lot of her song writing, both lyrically and instrumentally, that keeps my threshold wide for learning new things about the music where some other forms of music don't do that
01:01:16 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_00]: they're out nuanced enough.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So I I wonder if that answers your question, but it does get to this like dopamine expression and the threshold of perceiving new information.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean we can talk more about it, but I think one thing that like it's good that the listeners are clear after two seasons like you like Taylor Swift, it's clear.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, question for me.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Math is hard.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh boy, we've established for some of us.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: What is the hardest time signature to actually count and perform?
01:01:46 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like four, fours, basic.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Six eight is Six eight and copy meters can be hard to read, but they're very easy to get.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but like kind of easy to perform.
01:01:55 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:01:56 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's like the hardest one to count and perform?
01:02:01 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a large numerator complex meter.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So
01:02:06 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_01]: eleven eight ten eight fifteen that kind of thing so let me explain what i mean there's simple meter that goes like this one and two and three and there's compound meter that goes like this one and two and a three and a
01:02:20 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_01]: and you can have odd meters in there, like an odd meter would be five, four, so like one and two and three and four and five and, but it's still simple or 15, eight.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's odd, it's 15, but it's still compound, one and a two and a three and a four and a five and a.
01:02:37 --> 01:02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: What a complex meter is is that it mixes simple and compound beats.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So instead of 1n2 and 3n, you might have 1n2 and 3n1 and 2n3 and 1n2 and 3n.
01:02:49 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be 7n8 for example.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Or 1n2 and 1n2 and 1n2 and 1n2 and 1n2 and 1n2 and that would be 5n8.
01:02:57 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But the thing about 5n8 is 5n8 could go 2 plus 3, 1n2 and 2n2 or 5n8 could go 3 plus 2, 1n2 and.
01:03:07 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: without looking at the music that tells you which one is right.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you could have music in five, eight, that goes, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da
01:03:32 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: The beat, if I just count the beat, it goes from one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, the how long the beat is changes.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And so my answer is any of those with a large upper number.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So 10-8, for example, could be 3 plus 3 plus 2 plus 2, it could be 3 plus 2 plus 3.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And it can get hard to keep track of I almost universally,
01:04:00 --> 01:04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: steer my students away when they're writing compositions from ever using big numbers like that because hey, why do three plus two plus two plus three?
01:04:10 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_01]: As one bar, where you could just do like two bars of five eight and a row, right?
01:04:14 --> 01:04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: However, I have been caught.
01:04:17 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Red handed.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Literally the piece I wrote from my doctoral dissertation is a composition called darkness and beauty of stars.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a
01:04:27 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: symphonic wins plus chorus piece.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like 30 minutes long based on text by EE Cummings and I very lucky to have it had performed in stuff like that.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I had a part.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a movement of it called as the C is marvelous, which is a Cummings poem.
01:04:42 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And I could not for my teacher was like, why are you using ten eight?
01:04:46 --> 01:04:47 [SPEAKER_01]: What's wrong with you?
01:04:47 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And we agreed mutually, because I had a doctoral advisor at the time.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Note, ten eight is the correct way, because it went as is the C-E-Marvalus.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da
01:05:10 --> 01:05:14 [SPEAKER_01]: and every way that I tried to cut it into smaller pieces just made it worse.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's pretty freaking hard, right?
01:05:17 --> 01:05:18 [SPEAKER_01]: The qualifier turned to learn that.
01:05:18 --> 01:05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But I got this tune in my, my, your ass is the C, Marvellous.
01:05:23 --> 01:05:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And I couldn't get it out of my ear.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it had to be that way.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And anything with a big number, but a complex changing beat is the answer.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it could be worse.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be...
01:05:34 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: 13, 8 or whatever, but either way, then we'd have like, you know, one and a two and three and four and five and a six and whatever it is.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the changing beat that gets you.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously when you change between those meters is even harder.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: 118 is the hardest according to a quick internet search.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:49 [SPEAKER_01]: 118.
01:05:50 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:05:50 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, 138 could be worse though.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all contextual too.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Like five eight could be really hard if the rhythms are hard.
01:05:57 --> 01:05:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, right.
01:05:58 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So glad I asked.
01:05:59 --> 01:06:00 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your next question?
01:06:01 --> 01:06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't see this necessarily coming up as a part of a song conversation.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to just ask this now.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We over share on this podcast and because of that, I guess some listeners are maybe building what they call a parasocial relationship with us, right?
01:06:16 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Where they know us, but it's kind of one way.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't really know them, though.
01:06:21 --> 01:06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are on the discord and right and so we do get to share some semblance of a real relationship with them.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But the parasocial thing implies a one way direction, right?
01:06:31 --> 01:06:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But yet, us oversharing and expressing ourselves also serves a psychological need for us, right?
01:06:38 --> 01:06:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's me just sharing to you, a friend, or maybe just getting stuff out there, like, out of my head and into the internet, right?
01:06:45 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the deal with all this and like,
01:06:47 --> 01:06:49 [SPEAKER_01]: How does it connect or relate?
01:06:49 --> 01:07:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want to hear your reflection on this, not necessarily like a diagnosis, but both as a podcaster and a psychologist, like, is there a connection to the like sharing stuff about us that builds connection with our audience, but also is just sort of just for us and sort of a personal psychological need?
01:07:07 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's why therapy exists and that's why therapy works because you get to say the things that are in your head Even over screening into the void, but you're essentially back to it, and I'm reflecting it back to you So we're screaming into the void, but we're talking to each other sometimes you'll say things and then I'll paraphrase them and restate them back to you And you then gain understanding of your own point of view
01:07:31 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, right, or, uh, that is how I feel because that's what therapist.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, okay, but is it related at all to the also the audience experience, right?
01:07:43 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're saying that it, these are sort of independent, right?
01:07:47 --> 01:07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like this.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting free therapy by talking to every putty listening to this.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not necessarily related to people going.
01:07:55 --> 01:08:18 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of making a friend like there are people someone could walk up to you and be like like oh how how how are you doing after your aneurysm when you had a child 12 years ago and you're like oh my god this stranger knows that about me right and you're very open about that but yeah well it's I think but is that also therapeutic kind of that is I think it's therapeutic for everyone involved but I I think that
01:08:19 --> 01:08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We're sharing things.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really interesting because they're, they're independent ideas, but they are connected.
01:08:27 --> 01:08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Like because we are sharing things to each other in like a cozy space, that it just means you're recording it.
01:08:35 --> 01:08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It can be very easy to forget that what we're saying is broadcasted out.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And because of that, we're offering a level of vulnerability and like dare I say intimacy in our conversations that other people are respond to and they feel like they're in the room with us too, so they often feel like they have an intimate relationship with us, but it isn't reciprocal because they're not in that room with us.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just listening to it.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Could you imagine it's like if you and I were sitting in a coffee shop and we were talking about some like really emotional thing and someone, someone's at the next table and they just lean over, they just lean over and start listening.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like a voyeuristic almost, you know, like you get to be a fly in the wall in the room of these really lovely conversations and that's why podcasting is great.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:28 [SPEAKER_00]: because it brings these intimate ideas out to a larger scale.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And we, we get to consent.
01:09:30 --> 01:09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We do get to consent.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And like we, what at least one of us goes back and edits things, right?
01:09:35 --> 01:09:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You say that, but there are also times where one of us will say, you know what, maybe we should cut that out.
01:09:41 --> 01:09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly though, it was really, it does not happen very often, but there have been a few points.
01:09:45 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_01]: when one of us says something that then we want to not share.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:09:53 --> 01:09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this is the reason that this isn't like a live podcast.
01:09:57 --> 01:09:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also the reason that we don't do video.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the question I get a lot to is why I don't do put this on YouTube.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be fun to watch you because that for me feels a little bit too intimate for me.
01:10:09 --> 01:10:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't even thought of it that way.
01:10:10 --> 01:10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like for me, the video thing is like, I'm like cutting out a second of silence as I'm stalling looking on my notes.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I cut that out and it would be just the most herky jerky video.
01:10:20 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But now you're mentioning like, oh my god, if I had to worry about what position I was sitting in and like, is my hair weird now on my podcast?
01:10:27 --> 01:10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what the hell?
01:10:29 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That would not do a lot to the show.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:35 [SPEAKER_00]: we're both too self-critical to self-deprecating to like even open that door.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But Dan, we would have good like little 30 second reels to promote on.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to talk about it, but I don't understand what's for that.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry folks, no video.
01:10:43 --> 01:10:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Those people.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The parr social thing is interesting because I have friends that listen to the podcast and they might be friends that I don't hang out with too much.
01:10:55 --> 01:11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: but they're hanging out with me because they're listening to me on this podcast, but I'm not hanging out with them.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm hanging out with you in your basement.
01:11:03 --> 01:11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just, yeah, I have a friend that lives out of state that came to visit.
01:11:07 --> 01:11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We met in downtown Boston for dinner, and they were kind of like kind of hoping to call would be here like because they listen to the podcast.
01:11:15 --> 01:11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just a funny thing where as I would never put that together, but it's like so much of what they've experienced of me in the last year since I last saw them was listening to me once a week or every couple weeks or whatever and you're a part of all those conversations.
01:11:29 --> 01:11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the weirdest thing.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the connective tissue of you and I when somebody actually does know one of us.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We have two more questions.
01:11:38 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we go light where we're going a little on here?
01:11:40 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we go lightening around on the last two?
01:11:41 --> 01:11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, my next question is very, very quick, right?
01:11:45 --> 01:11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, or no question?
01:11:46 --> 01:11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's just I was at a musical the other day and they I would see Annie, it was really great.
01:11:52 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And the overture started and I whispered to my friend, I was like, this is called the overture and she's like, yeah, I know, right, it was so basic.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But then the
01:12:05 --> 01:12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, being a wise guy to me, she's like, and what's this call?
01:12:08 --> 01:12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, oh, it's a hack.
01:12:10 --> 01:12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not, I know what it's called.
01:12:13 --> 01:12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's it called?
01:12:14 --> 01:12:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll track.
01:12:15 --> 01:12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: On track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on track, on
01:12:43 --> 01:12:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The contract might do that, or it might just be a standalone piece of music.
01:12:48 --> 01:12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I just tell you to like get your drink and sit down.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They're starting again.
01:12:52 --> 01:12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's go out to the lobby or whatever.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks from the 50s West.
01:12:55 --> 01:12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or 60s or whatever.
01:12:57 --> 01:12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know before our time.
01:12:58 --> 01:12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
01:12:59 --> 01:13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just didn't know that word.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good one.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Good one.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, thank you for asking me, instead of just looking it up, because you could have looked it up, I appreciate it.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I saved it.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I like actually, well, the second act was starting out, so I need to put that in my notes.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: How do music and lyrics relate to memory?
01:13:14 --> 01:13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this we get a quick version, and we'll talk about it later.
01:13:17 --> 01:13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Some people are awesome at remembering lyrics.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Some folks even singers are terrible.
01:13:22 --> 01:13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But I've also heard that setting something to a tune can help you remember like a phone number or something.
01:13:28 --> 01:13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: If you come up with a tune, so what's the deal with this?
01:13:33 --> 01:13:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to unpack that in a larger episode, but the quick answer is that humans are primed as storytellers.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So we remember things as they relate to us.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I could give you a series of numbers, but if you set that number to the melody of Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra-Ra
01:13:55 --> 01:13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll remember it more because you already remember that melody.
01:13:59 --> 01:14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just kind of like stapling more context on Disney.
01:14:02 --> 01:14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Assisting memory.
01:14:03 --> 01:14:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like in using context clues.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But could the same be like if you put the words in different colors, that would also provide more context, or you, you know what I mean?
01:14:12 --> 01:14:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Are there other, is there something about music specifically, or just any kind of extra contextual clues would help memory?
01:14:18 --> 01:14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Any extra contextual clues would help anytime you put memories to there's some various things like called the memory palace that you can like put the items that you're trying to remember like on a mental map that you navigate through that mental map like if you're trying to remember items in a grocery store things on your grocery list without a paper list.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: If you remember them by like order that you would naturally shop the store like and map it, you'll more likely to remember it.
01:14:45 --> 01:14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to do a whole episode on like my memory palace mind map and like all of that stuff because it is really fascinating like memory tricks.
01:14:53 --> 01:14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't really talked about that too much either a part of a song or maybe it's just a cool sidetrack combo sounds good.
01:14:59 --> 01:15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah sounds good.
01:15:01 --> 01:15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: My last question.
01:15:02 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not going to be a short answer for me.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yikes.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:15:06 --> 01:15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But it has to be like, I almost, and like music, and that's how it's about it sundown.
01:15:15 --> 01:15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So computers make it like so easy to be perfect.
01:15:21 --> 01:15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
01:15:22 --> 01:15:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and the thing that a lot of people love about music is that it's a little bit imperfect.
01:15:27 --> 01:15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So, do computers like purposely make
01:15:32 --> 01:15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: mistakes.
01:15:33 --> 01:15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So the music is more relatable.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So another way, like, do people when they use the synthesizer or like a drum machine or whatever you call it, do they make it like purposely sloppy?
01:15:45 --> 01:15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:15:46 --> 01:15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So it feels more human in a live.
01:15:48 --> 01:15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So can we not talk about AI and talk about human-juicing tools?
01:15:53 --> 01:15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:15:53 --> 01:16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I guess as far as just the AI point is like are the AI's doing things to make it sound more human maybe sure I'm sure but like that's going to be a moving target maybe some of them do some of them don't let's just talk about human using computers especially but digital technology and do you do things to humanize it and the answer is there is a term called humanizing it so yes they do so the simple answer is yes so folks might program in
01:16:22 --> 01:16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, let's say I'm making a beat.
01:16:24 --> 01:16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There's two ways to make a beat, not counting having like a real drummer, right?
01:16:28 --> 01:16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm doing the electronic beat, I can either just kind of draw in the notes to trigger the drum machine, and those will often be very perfectly in time, right?
01:16:39 --> 01:16:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I could then highlight all those notes and randomize the timing a little bit.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I could randomize the velocity, which means how hard it is played.
01:16:49 --> 01:16:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I could randomize various aspects of it, just a little bit to make it slightly off the grid, as they would say.
01:16:57 --> 01:17:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you're doing, let's say you're doing like a pop song, you probably won't really do that to like the kick drum in the snare drum.
01:17:04 --> 01:17:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You might want them to be totally locked, but the higher up in the ecosystem, the higher up your tree, you go, the more humanity is
01:17:14 --> 01:17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: a lead line played by the synth.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't really want it to be.
01:17:18 --> 01:17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: We won't tolerate things sounding too perfect all the time if it's featured instrument.
01:17:22 --> 01:17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But the bass, so the kick drum, the brain is pretty alright in like dance music with it being perfectly in time.
01:17:29 --> 01:17:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So a producer maybe wouldn't randomize the drums at all, but maybe would randomize humanize the term is some of the keyboard parts, or would maybe just actually play them in.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when I was recording
01:17:43 --> 01:17:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have a keyboardist, but about half the keyboard parts on our record or played by Josh or drummer and half of them are played by me.
01:17:50 --> 01:18:00 [SPEAKER_01]: What I played in all of my parts, even if they were just like synth chords instead of programming them in, because I wanted it to have a little bit more humanity.
01:18:01 --> 01:18:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So, oftentimes, if you're recording digital music, someone will do something called quantization where you play in the park and then you automatically snap it all in time.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you're not randomizing, you're doing the opposite, you're trying to make it all perfect.
01:18:16 --> 01:18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But what you do and what people usually do is if you're doing that quantization, you will set a percentage of strength.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You usually won't quantize a hundred percent because it'll make everything perfect.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you quantize at 75%, it's going to pull each of your notes 75% the way to being in the beat.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But not perfectly.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And that usually is going to sound more alive.
01:18:41 --> 01:18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it goes more than that.
01:18:43 --> 01:18:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's like pitch bends that happen in wobbling and vibrados on a synth line that somebody will then go in and often manually write all that in.
01:18:52 --> 01:18:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So like it would take a singer half a second to go, yeah, to have their pitch fall.
01:18:58 --> 01:19:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But going that on a keyboard, you're going to go in and you're going to make click a line and you're going to move the portamento down and glide to the next like you actually see people spend a lot of time to humanize some of this digital technology in a lot of styles of music.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:20 [SPEAKER_01]: In some styles of music maybe people don't care if it's certain kinds of dance music you want a robotic aesthetic.
01:19:20 --> 01:19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of times
01:19:23 --> 01:19:29 [SPEAKER_01]: what you get just programming on the computer or playing your keyboard sounds really fake and boring.
01:19:30 --> 01:19:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what people think of is kind of like, oh, it's cheating using the synthesizer.
01:19:34 --> 01:19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, dude, a violinist could play this line in 10 seconds.
01:19:37 --> 01:19:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm spending like two hours trying to get every little note programmed perfectly.
01:19:43 --> 01:19:57 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, it seems almost like easier just to it is a corner, but getting a good recording and having a human being there that you have to pay it would be easier and faster for me to get an orchestra together to record an orchestra piece I wrote way faster.
01:19:58 --> 01:20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I write the piece, come in, play it, we're done.
01:20:01 --> 01:20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would have to spend $10 in these positions, and I would have to get them all in the room, and I would have to have a room that I can record them, whereas I could sit there and do it all with MIDI myself, and it would sound at least all right for whatever project we're on.
01:20:15 --> 01:20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But the amount of work to make it sound all right is extensive, because it has that digital fake to perfect sound.
01:20:24 --> 01:20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: How's that for a medium-length answer?
01:20:27 --> 01:20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's seemed like a long answer, but I appreciate it.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
01:20:30 --> 01:20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll talk about it again.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I got one more for you.
01:20:33 --> 01:20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:20:34 --> 01:20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There's apparently something called music and hedonia, where people cannot get a pleasurable response from music, but have those responses to non-audio stimuli.
01:20:45 --> 01:20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So they might still see a painting and enjoy the aesthetics of the painting.
01:20:51 --> 01:20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that they can't perceive beauty, but they do not get pleasure from music.
01:20:57 --> 01:21:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Wikipedia says that research says folks with this, musical and hedonia have a reduced functional connectivity between the cortical regions responsible for processing sound and sub-cortical regions related to reward.
01:21:12 --> 01:21:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So my simple question is just like, do you know anything about this?
01:21:15 --> 01:21:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Could you reflect on this?
01:21:16 --> 01:21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's the deal with this?
01:21:18 --> 01:21:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this interesting?
01:21:19 --> 01:21:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know this is pretty rare.
01:21:21 --> 01:21:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:21:22 --> 01:21:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it.
01:21:23 --> 01:21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh, not super rare, um, like three to five percent of the population.
01:21:27 --> 01:21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you sure that's not tone deafness though?
01:21:30 --> 01:21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's different because I saw it.
01:21:31 --> 01:21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
01:21:32 --> 01:21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone's biologically unable to experience pleasure or emotional responses to music.
01:21:37 --> 01:21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: They used to think it was a psychological disorder.
01:21:40 --> 01:21:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They used to think it was like depression almost.
01:21:43 --> 01:21:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That you were just like depression like kind of mute a lot of your senses.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So they were like maybe...
01:21:48 --> 01:22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just a symptom or byproduct of a chemical imbalance of depression, but they've learned that it is like a wiring problem that, like, you just, the input isn't going through the, the brain's wiring in the way that you described to like, a list of the feeling.
01:22:07 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: He said three to five.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of people that just... A lot of people.
01:22:11 --> 01:22:16 [SPEAKER_01]: and just music just sounds like, no, or just random, just not satisfied.
01:22:16 --> 01:22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just uninterested in music and you would as like a sequence of noises.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't get like joy or excitement.
01:22:22 --> 01:22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't like feel, you know, when you hear music that just stops you in your tracks and like you just like get chills and feel like this overwhelming feeling, they just like don't feel that.
01:22:30 --> 01:22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's people that say like, I don't like music and like you know those people and maybe that's three out of every other people.
01:22:37 --> 01:22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe not for you.
01:22:39 --> 01:22:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You probably need more people that you probably don't meet too many people with this race.
01:22:45 --> 01:22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: They stay away from me with the being in music class if they don't like music.
01:22:49 --> 01:22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm definitely meet people that people like I don't like live music.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, go and see live music.
01:22:54 --> 01:22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds like the worst and I don't
01:22:58 --> 01:23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think there's some people that like music, but don't like live music because of other.
01:23:01 --> 01:23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of like a negoraphobia vibe, I can't just end that.
01:23:04 --> 01:23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But also sometimes it just sounds like crap too, you know.
01:23:07 --> 01:23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you've got to enough punk shows and you're like, what does this song even sound like?
01:23:11 --> 01:23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just noise.
01:23:14 --> 01:23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
01:23:14 --> 01:23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know, just just wanted to bring that up.
01:23:16 --> 01:23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was- No, I think it's interesting.
01:23:18 --> 01:23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, our, we all process sensory information differently.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the really cool thing about humans.
01:23:23 --> 01:23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, they made up of the same stuff, but we process information differently.
01:23:27 --> 01:23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just because of our lived experience or like the social environments we grew up in, but because of like literally the biology of our body.
01:23:35 --> 01:23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a neurological thing.
01:23:37 --> 01:23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's good, so cool.
01:23:39 --> 01:23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to deep dive on it.
01:23:41 --> 01:23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that's it.
01:23:45 --> 01:23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Holy cow mega episode.
01:23:46 --> 01:23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was fun though listeners.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's do it with us.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Nicole hell of a season two hell of a season two.
01:23:50 --> 01:23:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Hell of a season two.
01:23:50 --> 01:23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We did a good job.
01:23:51 --> 01:23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was really great job.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We barely fought.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:06 [SPEAKER_01]: barely thought season two was more fun than season one season one was finding our head had a beauty in it finding our voices and stuff, but we recorded it all in like three months and that was too much.
01:24:06 --> 01:24:07 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not fun.
01:24:07 --> 01:24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:24:08 --> 01:24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:24:08 --> 01:24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:24:09 --> 01:24:15 [SPEAKER_00]: No, see, this season for me like there was never a time that I didn't look forward to recording.
01:24:15 --> 01:24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: There was never a moment that I, and if I had, if something came up, when we had to reschedule, I was genuinely like bummed out.
01:24:21 --> 01:24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it became a really lovely point of my calendar, and be like, oh, yes, I get to sit and chat with my best friend about topics where both really into.
01:24:30 --> 01:24:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love to, if we could just do this full time, I think that would be awesome.
01:24:34 --> 01:24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So if anyone wants to find answers.
01:24:37 --> 01:24:41 [SPEAKER_01]: If we start a patreon, can someone put several hundred thousand tall things in it?
01:24:41 --> 01:24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And like help incentives for a couple years?
01:24:43 --> 01:24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll share an example.
01:24:44 --> 01:24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And our kids can go to college for free, because that's my main motivation for continuing my job right now.
01:24:49 --> 01:24:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Never a music pot at Gmail.com.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to give us a million dollars, because that's how much college is going to cost in six years.
01:25:05 --> 01:25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Vatter and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditkmail.com and give us a follow on social media.
01:25:20 --> 01:25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is also part of the lorehounds network.
01:25:23 --> 01:25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Please join the conversation on their discord server.
01:25:27 --> 01:25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.