Wait, does it need to be either rock or opera to be a rock opera? As Season 2’s final guest, we welcome podcast luminary John Lorehound for a fun conversation about concept albums. Mark’s ready to go with a custom categorization scheme, Nichole comes armed with the required Hozier and Taylor Swift mentions, and John’s ultimately just here to give an angry rant about one of his favorite albums. Tune in for a conversation that gets to some surprisingly deep places.
Music heard in this episode: Ian Gillan and Murray Head - “The Last Supper” (from Jesus Christ Superstar), Rage Against the Machine - “Down Rodeo”, Taylor Swift - “The Tortured Poets Department”, Paul Simon - “Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes”, Pink Floyd - “Eclipse”, Beyoncé - “Texas Hold ‘Em”, Jessica Darrow - “Surface Pressure” (from Encanto), The Beatles - “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band”, Frank Sinatra - “In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning”, Frank Ocean - “Lost”, Taylor Swift - “August”, The Beach Boys - “Do You Like Worms (Roll Plymouth Rock)”, Queens of the Stone Age - “You Think I Ain’t Worth a Dollar, But I Feel Like a Millionaire”, Lauryn Hill - “Doo Wop (That Thing)”, Hozier - “I, Carrion (Icarian)”, The Flaming Lips - “Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, Pt. 1”, Mark Popeney - “After the Bomb, Love” (USC Thornton Symphony), Coheed and Cambria - “Blood Red Summer”, My Chemical Romance - “Sing”, NOFX - “The Decline”, De La Soul - “A Roller Skating Jam Named ‘Saturdays’ (feat. Q-Tip & Vinia Mojica)”, Liz Phair - “Never Said”, Radical Face - “Ghost Towns”, Green Day - “Homecoming”, Janelle Monáe - “Tightrope (feat. Big Boi)”, Melanie Martinez - “Soap”, Dana Howell - “Analogamelan”, Muse - “I Belong to You (+Mon Coeur S’Ouvre a Ta Voix)”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_09]: They're making purple rain into a Broadway musical.
00:02 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, they are.
00:03 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
00:03 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_09]: But then Manuel Miranda on board.
00:07 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, but I'm bored to do what?
00:09 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Like, the music?
00:10 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_07]: I guess I don't really know the music else.
00:11 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_07]: But he runs the music's done.
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_09]: He's a touch.
00:14 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_09]: He's attached to it.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, would it pass to a radio?
00:16 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's just like completely original music by Lynn Manuel Miranda.
00:19 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_07]: But he just really likes the story of the purple rain film.
00:33 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is Nevermind the music.
00:36 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_09]: Who are we going to talk to today, Mark?
00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_07]: John, Laura Hound.
00:40 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Welcome.
00:41 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Finally, we have the third head of the dragon from the Laura Hound's network on our podcast.
00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_07]: It took me long enough.
00:49 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
00:49 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm the lion.
00:50 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_08]: So lion, you know, lions are much easier than lionesses.
00:54 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe I was, that's why, that's why I was leasing.
00:58 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, so it's like Ryan, I say dragon, but it's like lion rabbit cat or something.
01:03 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Is that, well, that's like the disc so fair.
01:06 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_08]: We just commissioned somebody to do that art or David did.
01:10 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_08]: back in the beginning and they just made the lion and the hair and we were like okay that one's me and that one's you that's fine and then Alicia came in and we just found the derpy cat and kind of just like canva it into the simpler style and it worked it was fine.
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_09]: So we've had David and Alicia on before.
01:32 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_09]: David was here talking about the generational music theorem, which was a nerdy and interesting conversation.
01:37 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_09]: And Alicia was here talking about is hope.
01:41 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_09]: Punk is hope punk rock.
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_09]: We were talking about the Spider-Man movie.
01:46 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_09]: What?
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Right?
01:48 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
01:49 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's okay.
01:50 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have to.
01:50 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_09]: The people know that I'm not really dialed in to super, the lore how to happenings.
01:55 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_09]: And like the whole Superman universes, I don't really do stuff like that.
02:00 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_08]: It starts with an S, they have a red and blue suit.
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_08]: What's the difference?
02:04 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_09]: And like a really interesting Tom Holland right now.
02:09 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_09]: all of it.
02:09 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_09]: So we're happy to have you here with us to round out our Laura Hound's tri-factor of knowledge.
02:17 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_09]: And you're here to discuss concept albums.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_09]: Do I have that right?
02:22 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
02:22 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_08]: We went back and forth on this and exactly what we wanted to do.
02:25 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_08]: I have always been a big fan of the concept album, concept album, the rock opera, whatever you want to call it.
02:31 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_08]: That's kind of the rock opera is kind of a sub genre of concept albums.
02:35 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_08]: I think we'll talk about it.
02:37 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we have.
02:38 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_08]: And I just, I was like, if I'm going to come on never mind the music, I have to go back to my, my origin stories here.
02:44 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_07]: So.
02:45 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_07]: I have to ask you because I know and your podcast persona does not really engage with this aspect of your past.
02:53 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_07]: You are a musician, you are a professionally trained music engineer and you were in a band and I've heard that band and that band was really good and none of the Laura Hounds knows that because you have a
03:08 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Ali, you have an alter ego that you use to project the innocent and so I just want to ask you this, maybe it'll help the listeners dig in and find your old band.
03:16 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Have you ever made a concept album?
03:18 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_08]: I have.
03:19 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_08]: I have one of my albums that I sent to you is a, I don't know if I'd call it a rock opera because it didn't feel very operatic to me, but I guess it kind of is, right?
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a story from beginning middle to end.
03:30 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_08]: I actually wrote a set of short stories for each,
03:35 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And then I connect to them all into one overarching narrative, then I wrote the songs out of the stories.
03:43 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It was a different tone to try.
03:45 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_07]: see it goes to show how little I listen to lyrics that I listened to all your stuff and had no idea there was a plot to it though I do like some cost of albums and rock operas which we can talk about I'm sure so okay john is coming to us with some experience may expertise on the matter but folks check out the lorehounds if you haven't already some of you are coming to our podcast from them but those of you that are listening mostly for the music and
04:12 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_07]: John is one of the Tolkien nerds, but, uh, Tolkien nerds and Game of Thrones haters, I guess is fair to say right now.
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I am a Game of Thrones haters.
04:22 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_08]: You kind of fell off from that.
04:24 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, I mean, I love Game of Thrones until a certain point.
04:28 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_08]: And then,
04:30 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, the same as he did.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_07]: I've never had a lot on that, too, do you?
04:33 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_08]: You never have as much disdain as you do for something that you loved and then it betrayed you.
04:40 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_08]: What changed?
04:41 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_09]: What point was it?
04:42 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_09]: There's been enough time as fast.
04:44 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think?
04:46 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was, I mean, okay, the point of no return was, all right, are we doing, yeah, a game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of
05:14 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it's never going to be what I felt about it, just completely destroyed a character arc in like two minutes.
05:22 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_09]: because she was so close to like not being evil, she was so close.
05:26 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Game of Thrones, notably not hope punk.
05:29 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_09]: Not hope punk, not hope punk.
05:31 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I remember an episode of that is.
05:34 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Grimdark, I think, right?
05:35 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Isn't that what we learned from her?
05:37 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Grimdark.
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
05:38 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_07]: So I look for that.
05:40 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Concept problems, you just to always vibe with these, you've created them, is that what brought the topic up or is there something specific more than that?
05:49 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_07]: What's our launching point here?
05:50 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.
05:51 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_08]: I think so.
05:51 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I hear you guys talk about single so much, and for me, the album has always been king.
05:56 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_08]: I, my wife, it drives her fucking crazy.
06:00 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if I, am I allowed to curse on this show?
06:02 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I guess we're changing our minds.
06:09 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_08]: it drives her nuts because she'll want to do like a variety playlist in the car and I'm like hold on this is a great road trip album and I just I don't know I love the way that an album goes you know the rise and fall the choice of where song goes on an album the way you choose to begin and end it
06:27 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_08]: the way a lot of albums you know back in the day because of the format and I think that's a fascinating topic in itself because of the format you had side A and B and so you had sort of this midsection close and then you had another another opening another chance of opening every album as two two beginnings two endings and I think that's so cool it's something that's been almost completely lost.
06:49 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_07]: I love how the side A ending it's like a stinger before a
06:58 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Walk away.
06:58 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_07]: You're done, right?
06:59 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_07]: I like it.
07:00 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Like when I've sequenced albums, I'm working on I'm very much thinking of the first and last song and then kind of the middle high point emotionally or whatever, but I've never had to think of first half closer.
07:12 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_07]: That's kind of a wild concept that would be fun to have to entertain.
07:16 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_09]: I agree with you 100%, I think that we listen to too many singles now and we're losing the art of an album arc and I love an album that tells the story, not like a literal story, like a concept album, although those are great.
07:31 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_09]: But I'd like an album that has a good clear beginning in middle and end arc to it.
07:36 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_09]: I love an album that has like interludes between each song and we just our culture isn't supporting that right now and I'm wondering if you are also really into building the perfect mix tape because I think a lot of the statements you're making now about the album arc can be overlaid onto building the perfect mix tape.
07:57 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I think this is why I am more of a nerd on Tolkien lore than I am on Star Wars lore.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to connect it.
08:05 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't worry.
08:05 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_07]: The circle's going to square commercial break.
08:10 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_07]: And so now we're talking about concept albums.
08:13 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_08]: So the way that Tolkien is one author.
08:17 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_08]: pulling all these things together in his mind and giving you a curated set of lore, a curated background, a curated story, that's what I love about the album compared to the mixtape, which is much more like Star Wars where it's a bunch of authors.
08:32 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And we're pulling things from different heads, we're pulling things from different ideas, from different planets, and we're pushing them together in a way that when it's good, it's really good.
08:42 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just not my preferred lore.
08:45 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Talk to Alicia about the Star Wars lore.
08:46 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm here for the fun times.
08:49 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Does a Star Wars concept album exist anywhere?
08:53 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Just a round of fun.
08:54 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_07]: It's good to do.
08:55 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Totally.
08:55 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Right?
08:56 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_07]: Also, though, Nicole and I are elder millennials.
09:00 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_07]: You are a high millennia.
09:01 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_07]: We are elder millennials.
09:03 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_07]: You are a high millennial.
09:04 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_07]: You're a few years younger, ish, right?
09:07 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_07]: We grew up with cassettes in a way that maybe you did.
09:09 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Like the MP3 player for me was in a thing until college, I guess, yeah, early college.
09:16 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_07]: And I had literal vinyl stuff when I was a little kid and then cassettes until like middle school.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_07]: So the mixed tape,
09:26 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_07]: continued up through high school as the thing you would still make and tell you got a CD burner.
09:31 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_09]: And then I was you want to know.
09:33 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_09]: I guess you wouldn't know that.
09:34 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, like did you have a CD burner?
09:36 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Did you use Ian's CD burner?
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I did.
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I did.
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_07]: To make.
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_07]: I had a CD burner too.
09:40 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what you see, the unfortunate thing is I was making terrible music in high school.
09:45 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I would put my own music on a burnt CD and like bad covers of stuff.
09:51 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god, I didn't give that to girls just to be clear.
09:53 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_08]: That wasn't my like here.
09:55 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_08]: I remember I was cleaning at my mom's house and I found CDs with a Sharpie on them that said Awesome Mix Volume One.
10:02 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_08]: And like things like that like yeah, so I I had the mix CD I didn't have the tapes.
10:08 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I did.
10:09 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I did have cassettes like I again We overlap.
10:12 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm I'm in that like intermediate generation where I remember having vinyl records is a very little kid I remember cassettes.
10:19 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_08]: I remember going to a kid's concert and getting a cassette of the guy Were you born early nineties?
10:25 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_08]: I was born early in ideas, so like a sense we're just phasing out when I was like entering elementary school, but by middle school, I had my pod, right?
10:32 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Like that was just what how we listened to music then, and it was a shuffle and it was terrible because, you know, you want to talk about loving albums, but having a shuffle, my god.
10:43 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_07]: No capacity, like you must always be in shuffle mode or there's just no screen, right?
10:46 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_07]: So the only way to navigate it is to just skip.
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_07]: to a shuttle mode.
10:50 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
10:50 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it only did shuffle mode.
10:52 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think somebody correct me from wrong, but yeah, right?
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_08]: It only did shuffle mode.
10:56 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_09]: It was a toggle that you could shuffle or play it in the order that it was uploaded.
11:00 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_09]: It was like a little toggle.
11:02 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_09]: I had a zoom, which was like a microcell.
11:04 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I remember.
11:06 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_08]: I remember music.
11:08 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_08]: But a lot of people, a lot of people love them still.
11:10 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people are, I actually, a few months ago, I bought a, this, we were so off track here.
11:16 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I bought a knockoff iPod and then modded my own like SD card into and put custom software on it that made it act like an iPod.
11:25 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, like a classic I bought and I've been doing that lately because I'm just having more fun than going on Spotify and having Rando's Sure music.
11:33 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_09]: I have a couple of shuffles like the ones that are like clip on to you, but I can't get them to
11:40 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_09]: do it, like they don't want to be technology anymore.
11:43 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm trying to charge all over the country.
11:46 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_09]: No, I guess I was saying no, there's music on there and I want to know what artifacts, like what timestamp of my life as a captured on this purple iPod shuffle that like clicked to me.
11:57 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I used an MP3 player on runs and stuff until very recently, just because I didn't like carrying my phone around, like my phone was too heavy or whatever.
12:07 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_07]: And so it's like that thing, I mean, the technology has not advanced in the last 15 years, like they basically just roll out the next model.
12:16 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so concept albums, that's our state of topic today.
12:20 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_07]: You mentioned rock operas.
12:23 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_07]: There's concept albums, which I guess we could say.
12:27 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_07]: All rock operas are concept albums, but not all concept albums are rock operas.
12:32 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's fair to say.
12:33 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
12:34 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you wanna say what a concept album is?
12:36 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you wanna say what a rock opera is?
12:38 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_07]: I think it would be fun to talk about the continuum between the two.
12:41 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_07]: I actually have ideas for like leveling gradations along the way and stuff like that.
12:47 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_07]: I thought about this quite a bit yesterday.
12:49 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a good question because I don't think I've ever looked up the definition of either one to me a concept album is an album that explores a particular theme, the lyrical or conceptual theme again, concept album.
13:05 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_08]: without actually getting down to a continuous story from beginning to end, whereas a rock opera is an actual, a story.
13:14 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a narrative.
13:14 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a beginning middle and end.
13:16 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a rock opera because it could be made into a movie, or, you know, the Tommy movie, or a Broadway show, like American idiot, unfortunately became a Broadway show.
13:26 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I think that would be the distinction I would make.
13:30 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_09]: So what's the difference between a rock opera and a musical?
13:34 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_09]: Where does that fall like continuum?
13:36 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_09]: Because like when you're saying a rock opera?
13:38 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Also, it is opera.
13:40 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_09]: And then just OG opera.
13:42 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering what about an original musical?
13:45 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_09]: What about newsees?
13:46 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Is newsees?
13:47 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what newsees is.
13:48 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what newsees is.
13:52 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Get out of the podcast.
13:53 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for having me, guys.
13:56 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, please actually don't.
13:58 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I'm not going to go on a rant or rabbit hole, but what newsie says, but it is a great music.
14:04 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a musical.
14:05 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_07]: That tells a story through the rock about newsies though, right?
14:09 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not rock.
14:11 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_09]: It's musical theater.
14:12 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_07]: She asked a good question though.
14:14 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Like, what is the different?
14:15 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Why is it not a rock musical?
14:17 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_07]: John, take it away.
14:18 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so I'm I'm going to go with rent because that's when I know that I think is is very close to a rock opera, but is on stage.
14:25 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a something through musical.
14:27 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's I think a song through stage musical is extremely close to a rock opera.
14:34 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_09]: Like, but the name is isn't a rock opera correct, but it's just a song through musical.
14:39 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_09]: They're adjacent.
14:40 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
14:41 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
14:42 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_08]: They're adjacent.
14:43 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I think they're very close.
14:44 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_08]: I think the difference is there's a whole production behind a stage musical right.
14:49 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_08]: There's just, you know, there's choreography.
14:51 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_08]: There's props.
14:52 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_08]: There's there's this whole thing.
14:53 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_08]: The only thing that Rock Opera is separate in is that it's audio only.
14:57 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
14:58 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_07]: The simple way to answer it is a rock opera is a type of album.
15:02 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
15:03 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_07]: A rock opera is not a musical at all.
15:05 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_07]: A rock opera is not a movie at all.
15:07 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_07]: A rock opera is a type of
15:10 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Now, it just so happens that a lot of the most popular rock operas become movies or stage shows.
15:19 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_07]: So whether it's Tommy, I don't know that Tommy ever went to the stage, but Tommy absolutely has the film version.
15:26 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
15:27 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Jesus Christ Superstar has both the stage show and the film version, but ultimately those were albums when they were created.
15:35 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_07]: They were just albums in Tommy's case.
15:39 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_07]: Jesus Christ up her star is a concept album rock opera made by Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber that it was not a stage show it became a stage show a couple years later as well as the film It's just an album and that one's the one of the rare Like super rock operas, which I've only really been able to that's the only one I know but I looked into this a little bit like I found a few other names a rock opera that actually has characters that are being sung by different people
16:07 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Because like if we think of American idiot and I kind of want to come back to American idiot, because I think that's an interesting example.
16:13 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_07]: All of the characters so to speak are sung by Billy Joe Armstrong, right?
16:18 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_07]: And there isn't really like talking between them where as Jesus Christ superstar almost is like you're listening to a sung through musical.
16:24 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's not all I see on up in the airtime One of my 12 children will need to betray me I got the dramatics you know very well Why don't you go to it?
16:37 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_06]: You want me to do it?
16:39 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I read their waiting If you're new I do But don't care why To think of my true For now I despise you And I have you, you misu it
16:58 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's not, it is just an album.
17:00 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_07]: Like I said, I, that's the only one of those that I actually know though I did look up and I feel like I should shout these out just if people are super interested.
17:09 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_07]: But they're like metal projects, I don't, you can't call them bands but they're like some mastermind that hires a bunch of people or gets a bunch of collaborators each singing a different part.
17:19 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_07]: They're these Uber.
17:20 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_07]: projects, one of them's called Aventasia, the other's called Aeryon, that are like heavy metal rock operas with a whole cast and stuff.
17:29 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_07]: But they're, again, they're not shows, they are albums or in one of their cases, I think an entire series of albums.
17:35 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of like Janel Moné has like a whole cycle.
17:37 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_09]: It's so interesting because, you know, it's so musical theater adjacent, which is famously not metal.
17:43 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Like musical theater is probably the least quote and metal thing you couldn't think of.
17:47 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I don't, but I don't want to agree with that.
17:50 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Metal is so theatrical.
17:52 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Think of like, oh, yeah.
17:54 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Think of like the highest highs of expression is like opera and theater, right?
17:59 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_07]: And metal is kind of like off and hyper everything.
18:03 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Everything's larger than all the vocals, the guitar, the style, depending on the era, symphonic metal is like just like everything at you kind of.
18:12 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_07]: There's a reason that those like Christmas lights, videos from the two thousands were put to heavy metal versions of Christmas music.
18:18 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just an axiomalist, right?
18:20 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Trends have your own registered legendary for sure.
18:23 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you bring up metal and a metal is kind of the spiritual successor to the whole genre of concept albums, right?
18:31 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Like progressive rock was intertwined with rock with concept albums for a very long time in the 70s and 80s until the punk revolution and we can get there.
18:40 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_08]: It's interesting that metal kind of became the child of that.
18:43 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Like it kind of left rock and went into metal.
18:46 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_08]: You look at bands like Dream Theater and periphery.
18:49 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_08]: Those are the successors to like pink Floyd and King Crimson.
18:52 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And King Crimson even kind of went through an arc of like rock to metal during their career.
18:57 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_07]: But does a heavy metal concept album kind of make you prog metal at a certain point though?
19:02 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_07]: Like it doesn't have to.
19:03 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, I think you're right though.
19:05 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_07]: There is like a line and then it's interesting like
19:08 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_07]: I think you want to talk about this later, but like punk comes in with their concept albums and then now we have a fair amount of hip-hop concept albums, which is definitely not as common in the early days of hip-hop, though there are a few of them.
19:21 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_07]: But, oh, and by the way, in case anybody's wondering, it has nothing to do with opera.
19:26 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_07]: Rock operas have nothing to do with opera.
19:27 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just a term of art kind of for fun, I think.
19:31 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_06]: And, hmm.
19:32 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I think in this conversation, we'll sort of, if we do mention a rock opera, maybe it doesn't need to be rock, right?
19:39 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Like, yeah.
19:40 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_07]: Janelle Monet, rock opera isn't really necessarily where she has rock songs or rock adjacent songs sometimes, but just so as hip-hop and soul and stuff like that, and like, I would put good kid mad city on the list of a rock opera, but it's a hip-hop.
19:53 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_07]: opera, right?
19:53 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely.
19:54 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_07]: But that term, there isn't like we don't need to come up with a different term for every single genre.
19:59 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just sort of like a pop music concept album with a story, right, a rock opera has a plot or characters that are at least short of well-defined.
20:07 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of concept albums have kind of a story and kind of characters, but they're usually less about that and more about themes and framing devices and stuff like that.
20:16 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_09]: That's hugely frustrating to me that a rock opera is neither doesn't need to be rock or opera, but we can just call it.
20:23 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
20:24 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I think a rock opera does kind of need to be rock, but I don't really see a lot of standardized terms for when it's not, right?
20:33 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Like people say hip opera, that was like what people were throwing around when our Kelly did trapped in the closet, but fuck our Kelly.
20:40 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_07]: So we don't want to use that term, right?
20:41 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like...
20:43 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_09]: trapped in the closet.
20:44 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
20:45 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't know if I want that to represent anything.
20:48 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it definitely has a story.
20:50 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Um, it does.
20:50 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_09]: I prefer to read out that parody term hip hoppera.
20:54 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_09]: I think that that's kind of very fun to say.
21:13 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_07]: Before we talk about like punk and all that, can we talk the continuum?
21:20 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_07]: I have four levels with the highest level being a rock opera, the lowest level being an album of unrelated songs.
21:29 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm working this out.
21:30 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_07]: This is not science.
21:31 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_07]: This is just poverty taking notes.
21:33 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's a recording.
21:34 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, that makes it.
21:35 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_08]: So it's on the internet.
21:37 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_07]: So level zero.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_07]: An album of unrelated songs.
21:40 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_07]: So thriller.
21:42 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think there's like plot connection between literally the song thriller and PYT, right?
21:46 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think there's any thematic consistency.
21:49 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe a few of the songs or whatever, but no.
21:51 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
21:51 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_07]: So level zero, right?
21:54 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Most album is probably, right?
21:56 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm calling on level one, level one, we are on the path to being a concept album, but we are not a concept album.
22:02 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_07]: This would be an album with lyrical, consistencies, common themes, but in most cases without the intentionality of a concept album, right?
22:12 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_07]: So for example, evil empire.
22:26 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_06]: So now I blow it out, bro, day you're with a shotgun!
22:30 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_06]: Bailing this bowl all tight!
22:32 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_06]: On this solo, if I can't find a law!
22:34 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
22:34 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_07]: You could look at any rage against the machine album and be like all the songs are political.
22:38 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_07]: It's a concept album.
22:39 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they kind of just want to do political songs.
22:43 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
22:43 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_07]: And sure evil empire is illusion kind of aspect to it because you're calling it that.
22:47 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_09]: But maybe Taylor Swift's torture poets department is the same.
22:53 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Like all the songs are about loss love and transitions.
22:57 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_09]: But there's not like a strong narrative throughout.
23:00 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I left in your face and said, you're not doing Thomas, I'm not Patty Smith, you see the Chelsea hotel, I'm not an idiot, who's gone, I'm not, who's gone, I'm not, who's gone, I'm not, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone, who's gone
23:18 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, if they're actually all about that stuff, then that would be a concept album, but narrative would be more rock opera.
23:25 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_07]: Folklore, I think we should talk about it as an example, maybe of transitional, but maybe a better example would be like 1989.
23:34 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, nine is like named as if it's gonna be a concept album about her youth and but it's not really it's just sort of like a frame you give us like I feel like Yeah, that's a snapshot of her life at that moment, but not like a note that I call it a concept album maybe.
23:48 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, okay.
23:49 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm being with Graceland by Port Paul Simon.
23:51 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
23:51 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Feel like that's on that like cusp.
24:01 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_07]: But they're not like intentionally created to be a concept.
24:05 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_07]: I would say, Grace Led is interesting with that be, because he went in perhaps production musical to it.
24:13 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but Ralph is not a lyrical concept too, but there is absolutely a musical concept of that album.
24:18 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, like he goes to South Africa to record all these songs with these prodigious musicians.
24:31 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's one way to lose these walking loops That is on soul's issue
24:42 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_05]: She was physically forgotten, but then she slipped into my pocket with my car keys.
24:48 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_05]: She said you've taken you for granted, and it does up to me.
24:52 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_07]: And like it does all have a like a sonic palette that you could kind of identify almost these adjacent two concept album, but lyrically I don't know that that would be true.
25:01 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_09]: So we're talking about like narrative more than sonic palettes.
25:03 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_07]: I think you're already talking about narrative if it's a rock opera, that's the key distinction.
25:07 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
25:08 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
25:09 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_07]: John, back me up, like what's an example of a concept album that is not a story?
25:12 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, Grace Land, I think is a good one, but really the one that I always think of is dark side of the moon.
25:19 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_08]: That's not a story from beginning middle to end, but that is clearly a concept album on like the cycle of life.
25:24 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_07]: And like insanity and disillusionment and yet time.
25:37 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_06]: And everything under the sun is in tune But the sun is in clips by the moon Yeah, great example, but there's no plot, whereas the wall
25:55 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, has a plot to it.
25:57 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_07]: Now it's a little confusing for a high school though the first time I wasn't doing it, and even watched the film, I'm like, what, but that is a story.
26:04 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Dark side does not really have a story, unless you watch it, watch the Wizard of Oz while you're right.
26:09 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_09]: Right, I'm sorry, John, but you just need to be doing drugs when you listen to it.
26:13 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_09]: And then it all makes sense.
26:15 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_09]: That makes sense.
26:16 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_09]: How about Beyonce Cowboy Carter?
26:19 --> 26:23 [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like that's a concept of them about like the black contribution to music.
26:24 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_09]: And there's not like a narrative, but just actually all the songs are like focusing on like the roots of country music.
26:30 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Cowboy Carter and is the other one called the ones she did Renaissance?
26:35 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Is that the other one?
26:36 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_09]: Lemonade was one.
26:37 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no, but lemonade is earlier.
26:38 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_07]: So like how my car is like black contributions to country Renaissance is the one that's like black contributions to dance music and stuff like that, right?
26:47 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_07]: So I think those are concept albums and there aren't really electrical things necessarily that make it the concept album.
26:53 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like I think those some of those songs for sure would fit the concept But some of them don't and it's more like a frame kind of that we can put around all the music
27:06 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been me in the middle boy, I can't reach a mine, say taxes, ain't no hodem, hey, they are cars now, now, now, now.
27:19 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Lemonade is different, because that has like a full on narrative, and I'm also, I've got a parenthetical level five that lemonade would be on level five.
27:28 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_07]: So let's, let's come back on it too.
27:30 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_07]: That's why it's like arguably not a concept album, because it's also a film.
27:35 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_07]: at the point that it was birth, it's not like a producer came up to their guys in Green Day and said, Hey, we want to make a musical because that's what happened there, right?
27:43 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_07]: We're as lemonade was conceived as a film purple rain is not a concept album because purple rain is just a sound track to the movie.
27:50 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_07]: So lemonade's weird because like it's a visual album like she thought about that album, but it has a film also so like I don't know where to put that.
27:58 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_09]: They're making purple rain into a
28:05 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm bored.
28:06 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, but I'm bored to do what?
28:07 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Like the music?
28:09 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_07]: I guess I don't really know the music else.
28:10 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_07]: But he's not the music's done.
28:12 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_09]: He's a touch.
28:12 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_09]: He's attached to it.
28:13 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, would it pass to the ring?
28:15 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's just like completely original music by Lynn Manwell Miranda.
28:18 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_07]: But he just really likes the story of the purple rain film.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know the details.
28:23 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure they exist.
28:24 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_09]: I just don't know them, but it seems fascinating.
28:27 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_08]: It's like we don't talk about prints and they put up the symbol that he was using for a while.
28:30 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
28:32 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Bruno, all right, all right.
28:34 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I was going, oh, I guess I was going for it.
28:35 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_07]: So you don't talk about Bruno.
28:37 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Did he write that one?
28:38 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_08]: He wrote that, yeah.
28:39 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_07]: He wrote everything.
28:39 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_07]: He wrote everything for that.
28:40 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_07]: Did he do all of that?
28:41 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_09]: Everything in a canto.
28:42 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
28:42 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_09]: And then, like, how do you feel about the racist song?
28:45 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_09]: It's the Luis Asong.
28:46 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like very, very linemen, Melma, and decoded.
28:49 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
28:52 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's like yeah, that song is it's a great song.
28:54 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_07]: No, I love the best Disney song that's ever been It's really impressive.
28:57 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have a young kid who's a recreation like surface pressure that song literally my favorite Disney song of all time
29:30 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_07]: It's so good.
29:30 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_07]: You didn't think you'd hear this on the podcast.
29:32 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm putting in us.
29:32 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm splicing in a sample of the song.
29:34 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_09]: It's so good.
29:35 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_09]: You also need to watch the new Descendants movie, Descendants 4, because her son, the character's son is a main character in Descendants.
29:44 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_09]: They're really scraping the bottom of the, oh wow.
29:47 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_09]: The Descendants barrel, but he has a great song.
29:50 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_09]: That's very like a reggae tone inspired.
29:52 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_09]: So you might really love it, Mark.
29:53 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Level 2.
29:54 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm calling this concept album light.
29:58 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_07]: as opposed to concept album heavy.
30:00 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And the only difference between these levels is like, I'm going to give you a few attributes that I associate with concept albums.
30:06 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_07]: And if you have a couple of those attributes, you're concept album light.
30:10 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_07]: If you have a lot of those attributes, you are a heavy concept album.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_07]: So the attributes that I would call out.
30:15 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_07]: a intentional theme, consistency, or lyrical consistency.
30:18 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_07]: That's what we've been talking about, right?
30:21 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_07]: So like some kind of thematic, like cowboy Carter, like black culture, as it intersects with country music, et cetera, right?
30:27 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Or we haven't talked about this one, but the framing device.
30:31 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_07]: So Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
30:32 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_07]: I have this one as level two, concept album light.
30:36 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Because the songs don't connect.
30:38 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just like Paul's like, hey guys, would it for our next album?
30:45 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_07]: playing at Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club and our name is the Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and so it's got the crowd at the beginning and the end and it's kind of circusy but like there's no actual Like the other guys in the band weren't even really on board with it like it's just sort of a framing device, right?
31:20 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_07]: A concept album also might have an narrative and have characters, and a concept album might also have interstitial music, so like transitional bleeps and boobs or little songs between the songs, or a concept album might, and this is probably the rarest piece, might have musical references between songs.
31:38 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm homecoming at the end of, it's more common to rock operas, but homecoming at the end of American India makes references to musical material from
31:50 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Like crazy sexy cool TLC has interludes throughout.
31:53 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so that's the interstitial stuff.
31:55 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm saying like a melody from the second song might appear in the eighth song also, right?
32:01 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_07]: No.
32:01 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's where you're getting closer to actual opera techniques, right?
32:04 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_07]: Motivic consistency and stuff.
32:06 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
32:07 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_07]: So like fanatic consistency, we've been talking about them.
32:10 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Other examples that aren't stories, like anybody know this album actually haven't heard it, but it's sort of legendary.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Frank Sinatra in the Wii Small Hours.
32:20 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_01]: In the weep small hours of the morning, while the whole wide world is fast asleep, you love me.
32:41 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_07]: This is maybe not the first concept album, but it's one of the, and it's like night music.
32:46 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like about heartache and like Frank Sinatra was literally in the 50s doing concept albums, right?
32:53 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Channel Orange is one that I don't think, you guys know that.
32:57 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Frank Ocean.
33:20 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_07]: It's really good album 2012, but I don't know if I can go to Los Angeles, Blonde.
33:25 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_07]: I blonde is the one after that I think.
33:27 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's very good.
33:29 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I was actually thinking of that as kind of a concept album.
33:32 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, I think that's actually a rock opera.
33:34 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
33:35 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_08]: I think that has like a narrative.
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I haven't done that deep.
33:39 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_08]: I know he quotes Eliot Smith in it, which is fascinating to me.
33:42 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Like what across over genre.
33:44 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_09]: Would folklore be a concept album light?
33:47 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_07]: I thought about folklore because I knew we were going to raise the issue of Taylor.
33:51 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_07]: I think.
33:51 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm just trying to find something I can relate to.
33:53 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_09]: I think and I'm.
33:55 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_07]: You should okay.
33:56 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_07]: You shouldn't relate to like listen to freight ocean though.
33:58 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Like the man.
33:59 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure I would.
34:00 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just have.
34:00 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_07]: Folklore has come.
34:01 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_07]: kind of a story with characters that kind of follow in a few songs yeah it definitely has a vibe consistency about it right it doesn't have interstitial like it doesn't have songs between the songs it doesn't have mel well all that air and designer piano it doesn't are stuff because it all feel like it all put things down the same so actually
34:23 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_07]: You could say there's motivated consistency between it.
34:26 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't have a framing device really, but like, I don't know.
34:30 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_07]: I think that one's either concept album light or concept album heavy.
34:34 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's for sure.
34:35 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that she uses that term, but I think that is a concept album.
34:39 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_07]: It's certainly fits a lot of it.
34:47 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_04]: But I can see it's last in the memory I guess lived away into a moment inside because it was never mine.
34:57 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_09]: I think of all of her albums, that's the only one that has story telling that's not autobiographical and that's why it stands out.
35:06 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
35:07 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_09]: Most of her story telling is autobiographical so for me they are all
35:12 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_09]: on the path to a concept album because they're senturing around time and place of her as a character, but folklore is a little bit different because she's manufacturing characters to include in her songwriting and she said that she's never done that before and hasn't really done it since, life of a showgirl probably has some of those themes in it, but not as obtuse as folklore.
35:40 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_07]: So there's a bunch more of these like, you know, the love below sort of has thematic, you know, Android 3000, that half of the podcast album, pet sounds, pet sounds is definitely light on the concept album if at all.
35:54 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_08]: It may not be level two, it might be just sort of proto concept album.
35:58 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_08]: But then he goes on to do smile, which never came out and then came out, you know, in the early 2000s, and now I feel like that's the full on like we're going concept album now.
36:38 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and it loses me though, I don't get the concept.
36:40 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_07]: I think there's some amazing songs on the smile, but as a whole, I'm like, what the hell is the going on on this thing?
36:44 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm with you.
36:45 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_08]: It is a wild ride, but I think it qualifies as a concept album light.
36:50 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_07]: at the very least.
36:50 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
36:51 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
36:52 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_07]: It has a lot of these elements.
36:53 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_07]: So, okay, framing device.
36:55 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_07]: I shouted out Sergeant Peppers.
36:57 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_07]: Anybody think of any other ones that have a cool like, like, for example, songs for the death.
37:01 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_07]: If anybody's heard Queens at the Stone Age, it's like you're driving through the desert listening to the songs that play on the radio.
37:08 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's the concept actually frames what you're listening.
37:12 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_10]: L.A. is infinite repeat.
37:14 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_10]: How we feeling out there?
37:15 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_10]: How does your drive time commute?
37:17 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_10]: I need a saga.
37:19 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_10]: What's the saga?
37:20 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_10]: It's songs for the death.
37:22 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_10]: You can't even hear it.
37:37 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Or like, oh, we just talked about it.
37:39 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Lauren Hill, miseducation has these like recordings of students talking about love with their, they're like eighth graders probably.
37:46 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_07]: That's totally an example.
37:47 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's sort of a concept album and definitely has not only thematic consistencies about love and hating, y-clap and stuff like that or whatever, but also like these kids sort of hold our hand through this story on some level.
38:02 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
38:07 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you tell everyone what you did, okay?
38:10 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_13]: First and foremost, okay, she and you think a lot of anybody's or we just didn't love it so much.
38:15 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_13]: You looking at it like this, you're like an app for what he or she is, no matter what he or she looks like or what what he or she does.
38:25 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_09]: Hoesher's unreal on earth is a resenalbum follows the narrative arc kind of of Dante's inferno and each song is representative of one of the layers of hell.
38:34 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You have me floating like a feather on the sea while you're the shivvy of the world that you hold your hands beneath.
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_07]: So that's totally a framing device.
38:49 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_07]: Now the question is, is that also a rock opera, right?
38:53 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Is it the story or it's just like, no, it's just the vibe of each of the layers of hell.
38:58 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like represented in each track.
39:00 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_09]: And you like navigate through the tracks as you never get through these layers of help based on Dante's infernal.
39:05 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_09]: But there's no like protagonist, there's no story.
39:08 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_09]: It's just each song is like representative of that layer.
39:13 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I would also bring in muses, second law album as well as the resistance.
39:20 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I think both of those are like framing device concept albums.
39:25 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_07]: What's the framing device on, because like I know it's like alien invasion, like there's definitely concept album aspects.
39:31 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_08]: What the resistance is more like, it's kind of like late stage capitalists disaster actually.
39:37 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
39:38 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
39:39 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's honestly like it's a beggar even now.
39:43 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Like go listen to a kid.
39:44 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's coming up in season three.
39:46 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_07]: We will do.
39:47 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
39:48 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, already been ordained.
39:50 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_09]: How about, you know, she me battles the pink robots flaming lips.
39:55 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that?
39:55 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Is it concept album?
39:57 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_09]: You don't know it.
39:58 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
40:02 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I think that we have different very different musicals, I mean, I've seen that really the stuff that we like.
40:07 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_07]: Little dots on stage.
40:09 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
40:10 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_09]: And it's about this little girl.
40:12 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_09]: Your she may battling pink robots.
40:13 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's like the.
40:33 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_07]: So like do you realize that is maybe a song on that John you've heard that's probably maybe it was at their second most famous song probably Okay, but I wouldn't know by name.
40:45 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm terrible with song names The one that says do you realize a bunch so it's the okay, I probably don't know it then yeah
40:54 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_07]: They have so much visual stuff going on.
40:55 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_07]: I almost assume they're story, but it also could just be like chaos visually.
41:00 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they're some consistent with the visuals that are attached to their music and they're like brand that it's really hard to draw a line between some of them.
41:09 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_09]: But their albums, there is like in the liner notes anyway, I think that I'm old enough to have looked through CD liner notes.
41:17 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_09]: There is like a storytelling aspect to it for sure.
41:20 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_07]: John mentioned earlier like writing stories before, and I've done that for some, I mean, the listeners heard, I actually have a concept album, right?
41:30 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_07]: Dream Hydra's album is a concept album.
41:31 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_07]: I talked through it in one of our episodes in the first season, but I also used to do it for like orchestra music.
41:36 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_07]: I was writing my, if there wasn't a text, I would write what's called in that context a program, right?
41:42 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_07]: I would make program music and like I have this one that's it.
41:45 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_07]: While I was doing the dream hydropostopocalyptic album, I made like a 12 minute orchestral piece set during an apocalypse, right?
42:37 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Why, because I was just interested, I don't know, coheed in Canberra, I haven't literally heard any of these albums, but I know that indie rock band has, and I know some of you are probably like squirming to hear me say I've never heard it.
42:49 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Those guys like made graphic novels, associate with their albums.
42:54 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't know which came first, if it's like John, where you made a story and then made the album, or if they're kind of at the same time, like lemonade, where it's like, here is our multimedia franchise, almost that we're putting that there.
43:06 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what it is, but that's so cool.
43:09 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_06]: When you meet him, dude, that's your word, he's in a question that you stay.
43:23 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_06]: That book without your knees could you stop this if I
43:28 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Those are heavy, concept album heavy for sure, when there's a rock opera is probably more realistically.
43:34 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Gerard way from my comical romance was a graphic artist before he was a songwriter and singer.
43:41 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_08]: And so, you know, I believe he did some of that for, well, I know he did a lot of like art design and like sketching like that, like he was very into like the costume and whatnot.
43:51 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_08]: But and he goes on to write the umbrella academy and something else I don't remember.
43:56 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_08]: But he ended up having a graphic novelist career after my comic romance and you can see that in the black parade, which I think is probably more concept album light because I don't think there's a full narrative from beginning to end, but there is it is definitely you know exploring death obviously.
44:25 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Resistency, almost like Mad Max, but glam, kind of thing.
44:29 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_08]: That's very cool.
44:31 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_08]: You should go watch the music videos.
44:33 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_08]: They're really fun.
44:53 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_08]: And I actually did not care for that album very much as far as the songs went, but I just appreciated the vibe.
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that fits what we're talking about here.
45:01 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_07]: Totally.
45:02 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_07]: And John showing his age because him and his third wave emo, whereas me, it was all about the second wave emo.
45:09 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I was in middle and high school when those albums were coming out.
45:12 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_08]: And that, and it was perfect for me.
45:14 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a private prime emo time.
45:16 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_09]: No matter what, take any way.
45:17 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_09]: People need emo.
45:19 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
45:19 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_09]: I had thanks for Alex.
45:22 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_09]: They were dead, black.
45:23 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_09]: I cut them myself.
45:24 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_09]: It's fine.
45:24 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't allowed to die my hair.
45:26 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_08]: So, um...
45:28 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_07]: So level three then I've already mentioned is just concept album heavy.
45:33 --> 45:36 [SPEAKER_07]: So these are the ones that do a lot of this lifting.
45:36 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_07]: So I would say dark side of the moon, right?
45:38 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's got melodic and instrumental things that come back between songs.
45:43 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_07]: It's got the sounds happening between the tracks and it has a theme, right, and litreical stuff.
45:50 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
45:51 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_07]: I would say, I don't know, does one long song count as a concept album?
45:55 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you all know no effects is the decline?
45:57 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_07]: No, it is, it is, anybody is interested in West Coast punk from the 90s.
46:04 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_07]: This is like kind of a magnum opus of the BandoFX.
46:07 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_07]: It's 19 minutes long, I think, and it is or something like that, and it is one song.
46:11 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_07]: It's an EP called The Decline, and it's one interconnected song that they wrote, and we're like, we can never play this live, and then they proceeded to learn how to do it live.
46:20 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's crazy, and it has recurring motives.
46:23 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_07]: It's all about like,
46:25 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_07]: It's political, so do you unify thematically?
46:45 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_07]: So I feel like I call that a concept album, but it's one track, so maybe that's not fair.
46:52 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Day last soul, way back in 91, that's day last soul is dead.
46:55 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_07]: So that's got a story kind of, but it also has the framing device of like the kids that find the cassette.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_11]: There are certain albums that feel like they throw a lot at the concept.
47:17 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_11]: Like we're like Liz Faire, Xiongival, what that's early 92, right?
47:51 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_07]: The romantic consistency, but also each song, is a response to exile in Main Street, the Rolling Stone.
47:57 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_07]: So like, some of these people are like going way more than me with the Dream Hydra album going, maybe these kind of make a story.
48:04 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Let's write one more song to the Lynch fan, like it was very at much and afterthought, sort of like Sergeant Peppers, right?
48:09 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_07]: That's interesting.
48:11 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm thinking of at least on the border of three to four.
48:13 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_08]: I think this is going to push us into the next level.
48:16 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_08]: But there's a band.
48:17 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I did not make up the idea of writing short stories and then making them songs.
48:21 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I took that from another band that I heard about.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_08]: It's called Radical Face.
48:25 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_08]: You can still listen to them.
48:26 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_08]: I think they're still around.
48:28 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_08]: It's one guy, but he goes by a band name because, you know, he got to be cool.
48:31 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_08]: And he wrote this trilogy of albums called The Family Tree.
48:36 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_08]: It was like The Roots, The Branches, The Leaves.
48:39 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_08]: And it spanned three decades in the 19th century following a family.
48:44 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it was inspired by like East of Eden, if you read that, you know, like generations of families, and he would write short stories following these families and go, you know, this is the one from the 1850s, 1860s, 1870s and 70s, whatever.
48:58 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_08]: And what another cool thing, though, is beyond the lyrics, he would only use
49:04 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Instruments or digital versions of instruments that were available at that time but he would make it modern music using those kinds of instruments
49:43 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Like you would make modern folk rock music, but using only like the kind of instruments that were available then.
50:04 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_07]: I think there is this transition between like level three and four.
50:07 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_07]: So if four on my chart is rock opera, full rock opera.
50:10 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_07]: So we have to have a story and characters even if it's non-linear.
50:14 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_07]: So like good kid mad city by Kendrick Lamar has like characters and they die in the middle of the songs and stuff.
50:22 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's also non-linear.
50:24 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_07]: Like it does not happen and you know it doesn't die at the end.
50:27 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_07]: He dies like in the middle of sing about me and dying with a thirst which is not the last song.
50:31 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_07]: And so yeah, but there has to be more than just a concept, right?
50:37 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I agree.
50:38 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_07]: That's the difference there in rock opera rock in quotes, right?
50:42 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_07]: Because some of this stuff is not rock music at all.
50:45 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we've already kind of named dropped all the big ones, Tommy, the wall.
50:50 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_08]: American idiot obviously is like a pure rock opera there at that, you know, you have Saint Jimmy, Jesus of Suburbia, what's her name?
50:59 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_08]: You got, that's the name of the character everyone.
51:01 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not forgetting the name of the person.
51:03 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_07]: Does it actually so okay?
51:05 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So I was never clear and it sounds like you're a hater on the musical.
51:08 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_07]: I haven't seen the musical yet.
51:10 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not totally clear on the story.
51:12 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I actually has a full story without the musical.
51:16 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, man.
51:16 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_08]: So I used to go to like fan and I don't know the narrative.
51:20 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I used to go to fan websites that would like describe it would like.
51:24 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_08]: I would read the story and this is like all confirmed by green days up.
51:29 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, there is a story of like this teenager.
51:32 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_08]: moves to the city dissociates from his personality makes this new persona later he like kills off that person and he sees what he's girlfriend he is the Jesus of suburbia and all the same Jimmy which is like a battle for ego and then later it says Jimmy died today because now he's getting rid of that persona
51:59 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_06]: it's in the beginning, in the state of light, yes, but you don't find it to the other side.
52:13 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_08]: After he breaks up with what's your name, and then later he can't remember what's your name, and he's like living a boring life, and he just misses, misses hanging out with his buds and with his lady friend.
52:24 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_07]: So what's your problem with the rock musical version, which is not the same as a rock opera.
52:28 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_07]: They just made a musical out of it.
52:29 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a money grab.
52:30 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_09]: That's the problem.
52:31 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_09]: It is a money grab.
52:32 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
52:33 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I will tell you the exact moment they lost it.
52:35 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_08]: It's for me.
52:37 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_08]: I can do this for every piece of media.
52:38 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_08]: I hate apparently because I did this with Game of Thrones.
52:40 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_08]: When we were talking about fair.
52:42 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
52:42 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm doing this with, you know.
52:45 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_08]: When she hears the bells.
52:47 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_08]: So I, this came out when I was in like, I don't know, like 10th grade or something like that.
52:51 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_08]: This is this is high school era.
52:53 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_08]: And I, I loved reading it.
52:55 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Like I said, I, this was the first album that I really like loved love and got really into.
52:59 --> 53:03 [SPEAKER_08]: And like again, would read like the forums of like people talking about the story and all that.
53:04 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_08]: And the musicals coming out and there was like a free documentary on YouTube about how they made it.
53:11 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_08]: and i didn't i couldn't see the music i've never even seen the musical and in this is exactly why i okay i'm watching the document and they're they're at the writing table and they're they're sitting there with the band
53:23 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_08]: and the one of the one of the people doing the adaptation I guess I don't know what his exact position was marked probably no better than me, but he was he was like adapting it for like maybe he was doing the book or maybe he was doing the the scoring like the adaptation of the music, but he goes to Billy Jones and wake me up in September ends.
53:43 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_08]: really, screams 9-11 to me, like this is all about 9-11, and Billy J. Armstrong goes, well, no, this song I wrote about learning about my father dying, and he goes, yeah, but it's really 9-11 to me.
53:56 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_08]: And like just, guys just kept insisting that the song was about 9-11 to the songwriter, and I was like, this is just going to be some corporate garbage.
54:05 --> 54:09 [SPEAKER_08]: This is going to be the exact opposite of what I loved about this album.
54:09 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm never going to see this.
54:11 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't, and now it's over and there's no way I'll ever get that time back.
54:17 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_09]: Is it a drama turk that would do something like that Mark?
54:21 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_07]: The drama turk would do the analysis of it later, right?
54:24 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm.
54:25 --> 54:30 [SPEAKER_07]: The it's either the playwright or the composer of the incidental music.
54:30 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_09]: So John is like the drama turk almost.
54:33 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_07]: John here is the drama turk.
54:34 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_09]: It's the drama turk.
54:36 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I was just like 40 when I learned what that word meant, though.
54:38 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, I only know it because there's a sociological approach called the dramaturgical approach.
54:45 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_08]: So, I mean, I mean, look, this was like 2010.
54:49 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't, I think people today kind of forget how long the 9, 11, the post 9, 11, forverment of like,
54:56 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_08]: We have to relate a lot of things to it that maybe did not need to be related back to it, but that was still in that fervor.
55:04 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_08]: And obviously a horrendously traumatic event for the country.
55:07 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's why we held onto it for so long.
55:10 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe we can get the psychology in here.
55:11 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_08]: No, I can't call.
55:12 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_08]: But like the fact that the fact that this guy could not
55:17 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_08]: understand that this song was tied to a deeply personal loss at loss and wanted it to be about something that to me was kind of misusing a true tragedy, two true tragedies, because the father's death and 9-11, for more corporate appeal, for more wide appeal.
55:37 --> 55:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Psychologically, it is for more a wider appeal because we all have that shared, especially people that were buying Broadway tickets at that time, have shared trauma around 9-11, especially in New York City.
55:48 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_09]: So to market towards that and exploit that on some level is, so we'll somewhere tickets.
55:55 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_07]: you know.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sadly.
55:56 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_07]: So this is weird though because it kind of highlights to me the difference between a rock opera and a rock musical, which a rock musical.
56:02 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I love Rand.
56:04 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I Hamilton is like a hip hop rock musical, right?
56:06 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_07]: So like hip hop music, but like like my miss.
56:09 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_07]: We've talked about not a rock anything.
56:11 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Just a musical.
56:12 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Just a musical closer to the closer to opera than to a rock.
56:16 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
56:16 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_07]: I would say stylistically.
56:18 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_07]: But I think
56:20 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_07]: You've convinced me that through diligent internet research and actually listening to the lyrics, that American idiot is in fact a story, and it's not about Billy Jo Armstrong, but in the middle end of that album is a song about finding out his father's dead.
56:35 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_07]: And so then that can make sense in the context of a concept album or a rock opera even, but in a musical, it'd be like, why the hell is there a song about this in the middle of the musical?
56:45 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's okay in a concept album because a rock opera is just a type of concept album and we still sort of fundamentally are getting a vibe to the point that I didn't know it really had a story until later.
56:55 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_09]: And that'll make you flip over to the be-side for sure.
56:59 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_09]: You know, a cliffhanger like that halfway through.
57:02 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_09]: It'll make you look at the second part of the album.
57:04 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm tracking.
57:04 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_07]: That's near the end.
57:05 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, it's, yeah, it's, I think it's
57:08 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I actually have the American idea of vinyl, but it's a double album because it's so long because that can, you know, in the 2000s we were like, I were done.
57:15 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_08]: We're done being worried about vinyl sides.
57:18 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_07]: And it's the it's the third to the end right because after that is homecoming, which of course is like Mult, it's a sweet.
57:25 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_08]: That's long and then later on was after it to maybe I'm wrong.
57:29 --> 57:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Is it no other bombs before it a letter runs for right because in the story It's supposed to be his girlfriend leaves him loud letter bomb and then he's having this like sobering moment of loss in wikipedia September ends But of course the songwriter when he's writing it is thinking about his own father's death and how
57:45 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_08]: it was I think it was like at the beginning of September so he's like just wake me up when September runs.
57:51 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And then the guy reading the lyrics and trying to adapt it for Broadway was like what else happened in September.
58:00 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry, but I have never been so offended by an adaptation of some kind.
58:10 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm a appropriation.
58:13 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_08]: I actually came on this episode just to rant about this.
58:16 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the concept.
58:19 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I think like do we need like a level five that's like either Jesus Christ superstars thought where there's like there's got different actors playing different roles or Janelle Monet where it's literally three so she has not only is it three albums in a road but like the first thing and it's the the Metropolis series all it's all about.
58:39 --> 58:40 [SPEAKER_07]: her like android character.
58:41 --> 58:43 [SPEAKER_07]: But the first one is just an EP.
58:44 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_07]: And so what she does after that, it's almost like honoring that.
58:46 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like sweet part one of the sweet is the EP.
58:50 --> 58:55 [SPEAKER_07]: And then the the next album, which is the arch android is sweet 2 and 3.
58:55 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_07]: So like she continues the half album thing.
59:21 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_07]: And then there's four and five is in the third album.
59:24 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_07]: And then she promised a six and seven that hasn't come out yet.
59:28 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_07]: To me, that almost feels like when you've got a multi album arc, you're like, yeah.
59:33 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_07]: That's like the super rock opera.
59:36 --> 59:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously, that's rock is a complicated term with Jim Allen and A, right?
59:40 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Just sort of American pop music in the 2000s, right?
59:44 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_07]: In the 21st century.
59:46 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_07]: or like lemonade, like I said, like, is that not a rock opera because it has the pop opera, because it has the visual or does it actually get to be a higher level?
59:55 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Because what it was like, like, or he didn't can't get out to it.
59:57 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's a whole bit so, right?
59:59 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_09]: I have an idea about level five crafting.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe level five is when the concept comes off the album and invades the artist's life.
01:00:13 --> 01:00:17 [SPEAKER_09]: Like, the artist becomes part of the art, becomes part of the concept.
01:00:17 --> 01:00:23 [SPEAKER_09]: And like, when you talk about American idiot, you used to term like dissociate from personality.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I think the ultimate concept album, the ultimate performance art is when
01:00:30 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_09]: the artist persona becomes part of the album, becomes part of the concept, and part of the narrative.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_09]: So we see that a little bit in Beyonce's lemonade.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_09]: We see that a little bit in genel Monet.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:44 [SPEAKER_09]: We see it in Chapel Rowan for sure.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, okay.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_07]: That's fantastic.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_07]: That's gotta be a rock opera.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Ziggy.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_07]: Ziggy for sure, yeah.
01:00:52 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_07]: That's like his alter ego.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Today we're always showing up again on this podcast.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_07]: Still no episode.
01:00:57 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_09]: A lot, Bowie.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Another artist that I need is an interesting case study in this idea is Melanie Martinez, who you may not know.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_09]: She has a really hyper-focused, but smaller fan base.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_09]: She was an artist on the voice, which is an American musical singing competition.
01:01:16 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_09]: And she was very honest.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:29 [SPEAKER_09]: Just in case you have some new or less nurse here and you know, some UK people so the voice in it is that help them voice in it.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah
01:01:32 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_09]: that's funny.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_09]: So she was a contestant on the voice.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:44 [SPEAKER_09]: And like later when on she has four albums, the first album was called Cry Baby, where she was just like very infantilized figure.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_09]: And all of the songs on that album were both being a baby.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:49 [SPEAKER_09]: There's no hyperbole there.
01:01:49 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_09]: They were both all the music videos.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_07]: Like they were her soul style.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, like bubblegoth, baby-ish.
01:01:55 --> 01:01:57 [SPEAKER_07]: You haven't watched her, it was all yet, have you?
01:01:57 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't watched through her, it was so much people tell me to, I know, everyone in my life is like, what are you doing, not watching that show?
01:02:04 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_09]: But stay with me.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:13 [SPEAKER_09]: So, Melanie Martinez has this album, Cry Baby, that all the track list is all about shit's babies do, whatever.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_09]: Her whole persona is this crybaby character.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_09]: Her next album is called K through 12.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:41 [SPEAKER_09]: That each song on the album follows her path.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:46 [SPEAKER_09]: This crybaby character's path through kindergarten first grade, second grade, K through 12.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_09]: There's a film attached to it that follows a narrative of crybaby, the character.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_09]: Going through boarding school and then graduating.
01:02:55 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_09]: And there's a lot of twisted things that happened
01:02:59 --> 01:03:07 [SPEAKER_09]: And this is where things get very strange because at the end of the K through 12 album, this cry baby character.
01:03:08 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_09]: And there's like, this like alien egg almost and like transforms into like a woodland nymph creature that the next album is called the portal's album is about this incubation of this nymph creature and then she hatches, whatever.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_09]: But throughout that time, that portal's was an album.
01:03:30 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Stay with me.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:33 [SPEAKER_09]: Melanie Martinez, the human.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_09]: Every time she was seen in public, she wore like prosthetics to indicate that she was a woodland alien nymph.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:43 [SPEAKER_09]: You can go look up some images.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_09]: She's like on the red carpet with these prosthetics.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_09]: She's performing tours with these prosthetics.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_09]: All of her tours and stage shows, speak to this concept, continue this storytelling, continue the narrative.
01:03:56 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_09]: And then her latest album is called Hades, which is the same character and she's not a woodland in many more.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:07 [SPEAKER_09]: She gets taken over by like some AI figure and changed instantly.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_09]: AI puppet.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:16 [SPEAKER_09]: I kind of lost the plot somewhere along the line in these albums, but my greater point is each album is very conceptual.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:18 [SPEAKER_09]: Has films attached to it?
01:04:18 --> 01:04:21 [SPEAKER_09]: Her newest album Hades will also have a film attached to it.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_09]: It was her plan while writing the album to attach a film to it.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_09]: and her life in the public facing life reflects back on the character that she's developing, so much so that the line between whom Melanie Martinez is and the line between who this cry baby anthropomorphic fairy character is incredibly blurred, like aesthetically, and with every bit of content she puts out.
01:04:47 --> 01:05:01 [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering where that fits in this matrix, but it isn't just an album, but it becomes a complete dissociation of personality into the secondary persona that shields a very vulnerable, probably, inner persona.
01:05:02 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_09]: And I'd love to, if you have any other examples of things like that, I can't talk about what concept albums that was speaking to the four people here listening that, like, no one knowing who I'd be notice is, because she's really fascinating as an artist, a very performance art way.
01:05:17 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_09]: So what do y'all think about that?
01:05:20 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that sounds super fascinating to me.
01:05:23 --> 01:05:29 [SPEAKER_08]: I will be honest with you that when you said she was wearing prosthetics, I did immediately jump to, she's dressed like a baby in public.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_08]: But she wasn't so that's a plus now.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:37 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, how I'm interested because I didn't want I didn't want the baby in public.
01:05:37 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_09]: No, she was when she was in this cry baby era.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:41 [SPEAKER_09]: She was quite young.
01:05:41 --> 01:05:42 [SPEAKER_09]: She was probably 17 or so.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:45 [SPEAKER_09]: She was very, very young to be in this reality show.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:51 [SPEAKER_09]: But no, she was very like, yeah, I call it a bubblegoth type of aesthetic.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:53 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to check this out.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_08]: This is, this is a check out.
01:05:55 --> 01:05:55 [SPEAKER_09]: And the music's good.
01:05:56 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Like stand alone.
01:05:57 --> 01:05:58 [SPEAKER_09]: The music is good.
01:05:58 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So what this makes me think of and you've hit at something really interesting here because like I posited like, oh, it's level five when it like goes beyond the album.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_07]: It's multiple albums.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_07]: It's multimedia and you're kind of almost posing that level five would be it becomes performance.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:14 [SPEAKER_07]: It's already to expand.
01:06:14 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:16 [SPEAKER_07]: And by the way, if we keep going up,
01:06:20 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Now the songs don't have anything to do with the other concept as two intents, but this is actually kind of making me fixate a little bit on the name of the thing we're talking about concept album and when we think about arts in general especially post modern art and post modern music this would be no exception the idea of a concept piece like the idea of concept art that like we've probably talked about John Cage on this podcast before like where you're
01:06:48 --> 01:06:56 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, the concept of the piece is like we have these metronomes on stage playing and they're each on different times like nobody's playing any music.
01:06:56 --> 01:07:01 [SPEAKER_07]: It's not really fun to listen to, but it's like conceptually interesting or like what is it?
01:07:01 --> 01:07:02 [SPEAKER_07]: Is it a stock housing piece?
01:07:02 --> 01:07:13 [SPEAKER_07]: There's like there's like some avant-garde composer from the middle of the 20th century that you're supposed to like not sleep for 24 hours and then go in a room and play what comes to mind with the other musicians.
01:07:16 --> 01:07:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:07:17 --> 01:07:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Concept, this is all fair.
01:07:18 --> 01:07:19 [SPEAKER_08]: It's all fair.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:21 [SPEAKER_08]: These are the things.
01:07:21 --> 01:07:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I did a European classical music school.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:26 [SPEAKER_08]: These are the things that we need to make a fart noise in the middle of class.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
01:07:28 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_09]: That would be very John Cage.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:34 [SPEAKER_09]: I made a great John Cage joke in my real life, my lived experience the other day.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:38 [SPEAKER_09]: I was at like a kid's musical production, which I often find myself.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_09]: And all the kids were on stage with a music hand started yet, so they were just like shuffling around and they didn't know what to do.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_09]: And I said to the other person next to me, like, I think this is like the John Cage section.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_09]: She was like, what?
01:07:52 --> 01:07:55 [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, oh, I wish Marcus here, no one gets me.
01:07:56 --> 01:08:16 [SPEAKER_07]: But like it's it's all emblematic of the idea of post-modernity right and the post-modern movement in art and Like I would say we're still in it really we're probably in something post-post-modernity, but post-modern sort of the rules aren't there anymore and you can redefine what the art form is
01:08:17 --> 01:08:20 [SPEAKER_07]: Right, I've been on stage at a graduate composition recital.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:24 [SPEAKER_07]: I did not write this piece playing a telephone as an instrument.
01:08:24 --> 01:08:31 [SPEAKER_07]: Like I literally had a telephone that this guy had had ripped apart and I had it plugged into my my crybaby wall pedal on my guitar.
01:08:31 --> 01:08:37 [SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, and we were supposed to move like in slow motion.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_07]: It was like a whole concept because it's sort of like an FU to the idea of a concert at all.
01:08:47 --> 01:08:52 [SPEAKER_06]: All right, and so this...
01:09:07 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, in polystyles, I'm like you'd have like a piece that sounds like Bach and then it turns into a tonality for 10 seconds and then goes back to sounding like Bach.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:24 [SPEAKER_07]: Like all of this is related to this idea of kind of what you're saying of like she's redefining her whole identity and this stuff which huge in the 60s and 70s in particular.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:48 [SPEAKER_07]: across tons of different types of art and I feel like you're almost talking about artists that are honoring that aspect of the concept album as a creature of that era of the 60s and 70s whereas the concept album probably started with that vibe almost as the inspiration performance art like things that like Devo were those guys were art school guys they were musicians but they were
01:09:50 --> 01:10:14 [SPEAKER_07]: performing artists more or when going to go the same that though that's a little later like and then maybe these artists years later are bringing it back to that because for the last 40 years concept album is just sort of that a lot of lyrics are about the same topic they've lost the actual kind of conceptual art framework that maybe was originally the inspiration I don't know
01:10:15 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_09]: I think a lot about this idea of authenticity in these artists, specifically in artists like Melanie Martinez or Chapel Rowan or Lady Gaga, that when they're alone at the end of the day, are they still doing it, you know, are they still keeping up the bit.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_09]: And when I first saw Melanie Martinez on the red carpet with like the prosthetics on her face, I was like, oh, she's so committed to this bit.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Right, even when it might not be working, the music can stand alone.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't need the theatrics to it.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:49 [SPEAKER_09]: It is objectively just good music.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:53 [SPEAKER_09]: And I wonder why a personality needs all that shielding.
01:10:53 --> 01:10:57 [SPEAKER_09]: And that's the psychologist in me, I think, that I'm wondering what's going on under all of it.
01:10:58 --> 01:11:03 [SPEAKER_07]: It's kind of weird, though, because when you get to the Uber levels of concept album, I feel like there's...
01:11:03 --> 01:11:13 [SPEAKER_07]: absolute artifice, whether it's alter ego, androids of genel Monet, or Milliman Tinas committed to the bit, or whatever, with wearing stuff all day.
01:11:13 --> 01:11:16 [SPEAKER_07]: But then you have extremely authentic, right?
01:11:16 --> 01:11:24 [SPEAKER_07]: Extremely human, where it's like lemonade, where it's like she's exposing our guts to us all in this film and on this album.
01:11:24 --> 01:11:30 [SPEAKER_07]: And so it's like some of them have the authenticity and it's personal and it's like their real self.
01:11:31 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Some of them, it's like an imagined self, kind of.
01:11:33 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:11:33 --> 01:11:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it comes down to the idea of, is it autobiographical or not, like Melanie Martinez as a human, wasn't, didn't enter an interstellar egg and transform.
01:11:45 --> 01:11:46 [SPEAKER_08]: So you think that's a ruinical.
01:11:48 --> 01:11:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't, how dare you diminish her experience?
01:11:50 --> 01:11:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Please, I don't mean to her fandom is so intense.
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not interested in stepping on that behalf by any stretch.
01:11:57 --> 01:12:05 [SPEAKER_09]: But we do make this line between like, even Green Day's American idiot, it's a relatable narrative, right?
01:12:05 --> 01:12:06 [SPEAKER_09]: That we can connect to.
01:12:06 --> 01:12:11 [SPEAKER_09]: And Beyonce is a relatable narrative, as to folk lore, a relatable narratives.
01:12:12 --> 01:12:14 [SPEAKER_09]: And they seem more human and more accessible.
01:12:15 --> 01:12:20 [SPEAKER_09]: When things like Tommy might not, things like the wall might not, right?
01:12:20 --> 01:12:34 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think there's an interesting difference between those, because we're coding the most different types of concept albums, that things that move away from the human side, then seem more fantastical to us get coded a little bit differently.
01:12:34 --> 01:12:37 [SPEAKER_08]: I like that a lot, and you brought up authenticity.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:43 [SPEAKER_08]: And I feel like that has to dovetail with the punk response to all this, right?
01:12:43 --> 01:12:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Is that the 70s come along and all these kids are in their garage, and they're like, I don't want to spend hours practicing guitar solos.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to spend hours practicing the piano.
01:12:57 --> 01:12:59 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to write complex stories.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:01 [SPEAKER_08]: I want to play music.
01:13:02 --> 01:13:06 [SPEAKER_08]: And punk was kind of this like, hey, you're all phonies.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:10 [SPEAKER_08]: for writing these stories and making these big productions.
01:13:10 --> 01:13:19 [SPEAKER_08]: And we're the authentic ones because we're going to play three chords and do it loud and just sing about being poor kids in southern California, right?
01:13:19 --> 01:13:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Like that's that's green day right there.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I know that's the 90s, but even in the 70s.
01:13:24 --> 01:13:26 [SPEAKER_08]: No, they're in California, but yeah.
01:13:26 --> 01:13:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, whatever I mean, those things are, you're you're from California.
01:13:29 --> 01:13:32 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't, I'm from the East Coast and now if you're permanently.
01:13:32 --> 01:13:37 [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, I don't, you know, I think California's pretty small isn't it?
01:13:37 --> 01:13:38 [SPEAKER_08]: A little bit.
01:13:40 --> 01:13:40 [UNKNOWN]: So funny.
01:13:41 --> 01:13:48 [SPEAKER_07]: But also I think hip hop, you could say that like we can think of those as a rejection kind of of the excesses of the set.
01:13:48 --> 01:13:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's also musically.
01:13:49 --> 01:13:53 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know, this you're recording engineer like nothing sounds better than those mid 70s records, right?
01:13:54 --> 01:13:58 [SPEAKER_07]: And nothing sounds worse than some of that late 70s DIY punk.
01:13:58 --> 01:13:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
01:13:58 --> 01:13:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:13:59 --> 01:14:03 [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like obviously they couldn't afford it, but also it's kind of a rejection.
01:14:03 --> 01:14:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
01:14:04 --> 01:14:04 [SPEAKER_07]: Of the aesthetic.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:09 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's always to fill that punk and hip-hop go hand in hand.
01:14:09 --> 01:14:11 [SPEAKER_08]: In that they are rejections of status quo.
01:14:11 --> 01:14:12 [SPEAKER_08]: There's genre.
01:14:12 --> 01:14:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Hip-hop kind of response to R&B and punk is a response to the more progressive side of rock.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:44 [SPEAKER_08]: that just they are they are the same thing they are saying we at music should be for everyone and you are gatekeepers you people who have come before and we're rejecting that gate what's funny to me is that then you come to the early 2000s and green is like let's do a rock opera my come to romance goes let's do a concept album uh... panic at the disco kind of does the same thing right like all these bands now who were punk say they are the first kind of a
01:14:47 --> 01:14:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Rock almost the rock opera sort of which one was it say anything is real boy.
01:14:51 --> 01:15:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I think I think that was a rock opera that he aborted So like half the songs kind of fit the concept and then the rest don't But I mean, there's a who's could do 80s concept album.
01:15:03 --> 01:15:11 [SPEAKER_07]: There's some of them, but yeah for the most part that is not You're not gonna see kill Roy is here by sticks kind of stuff in the punk community in that era.
01:15:11 --> 01:15:14 [SPEAKER_07]: No way right and I think that's the point well look
01:15:15 --> 01:15:30 [SPEAKER_08]: We all know that music is not like a, you have to stay in this category and you can't be, it's not rigid lines in these genres, but I do think it's interesting that this, this kind of reactive genre merge with what it reacted to eventually.
01:15:30 --> 01:15:33 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's just the fun, like, a little book end on it, I think.
01:15:34 --> 01:15:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
01:15:35 --> 01:15:44 [SPEAKER_07]: American AD is interesting to me, because also it came out right as I was about, like I was in my last year of college as a music major.
01:15:44 --> 01:15:51 [SPEAKER_07]: And so it was like kind of in some ways, one of the first things to grab onto as a way of kind of fusing.
01:15:52 --> 01:15:57 [SPEAKER_07]: things that I was previously completely keeping separate, which is to say like, pop music.
01:15:57 --> 01:16:11 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I was in a scopunk band in high school and like grew up completely with pop music and then was studying essentially classical music as an undergraduate and then went on to grad school and never did the twain meet for those first few years.
01:16:11 --> 01:16:15 [SPEAKER_07]: And so like that there was a way that I could
01:16:16 --> 01:16:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Engage multiple parts of my brain on one record like that was kind of not happening as much in the 90s music I was listening to right and so when that started coming out those bands started doing that kind of stuff and concept albums became and I know we're in the era of the single now
01:16:31 --> 01:16:35 [SPEAKER_07]: But there's still artists, there's a lot of artists pushing back against that and making constant albums.
01:16:35 --> 01:16:36 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's really cool.
01:16:36 --> 01:16:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:16:37 --> 01:16:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Haven't even, you know, in the last couple of years still stuff's happening.
01:16:40 --> 01:16:52 [SPEAKER_07]: So, but just for the nerdyness of me to be able to, to see that there was a model like I could do, I could imagine a rock concept album in the 2000s, whereas I don't know, what was,
01:16:53 --> 01:16:56 [SPEAKER_07]: the most recent touch point before that in that style.
01:16:56 --> 01:16:56 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
01:16:57 --> 01:17:00 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I guess I said they declined no effects, but that was literally one song.
01:17:00 --> 01:17:01 [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, I think I'll.
01:17:02 --> 01:17:25 [SPEAKER_08]: I was just looking at, because I was trying to figure out what they use, but I remembered you're talking with the fusion between your classical tracks, you know, quote unquote classical, I know, it's not classical era, but, and your punk, your, your, your more rock and punk eras, muse actually in their resistance album uses Chopin and another composer, I can't pronounce, but it's all.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I think there are some, yes it is, I did not know how to pronounce that and I gave up.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:10 [SPEAKER_08]: It's beautiful too and then they close the album with what they call the exo Genesis symphony, right?
01:18:11 --> 01:18:18 [SPEAKER_08]: This is a three track like mini symphony that they write, that's like a, it's a fusion of orchestral and rock instruments.
01:18:18 --> 01:18:20 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's later, right?
01:18:20 --> 01:18:21 [SPEAKER_07]: That's a few years.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:22 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying that.
01:18:24 --> 01:18:26 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's probably, that's probably 2008 or nine, right?
01:18:26 --> 01:18:27 [SPEAKER_07]: So 2009.
01:18:27 --> 01:18:27 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:28 [SPEAKER_07]: So it's four years.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:29 [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of grown.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Like there was chamber pop, you know, like there were Bellance of Astin or like there were these groups that were in on the indie pop side that were doing classically influenced things and radio head.
01:18:40 --> 01:18:42 [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously, I can't believe we're in our,
01:18:42 --> 01:18:43 [SPEAKER_07]: something into our pocket.
01:18:43 --> 01:18:44 [SPEAKER_07]: We haven't talked about it yet.
01:18:44 --> 01:18:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's true.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:47 [SPEAKER_07]: The video head was doing that like it is.
01:18:48 --> 01:18:49 [SPEAKER_07]: You could say his concept album, right?
01:18:49 --> 01:18:53 [SPEAKER_07]: Like prog rock though was art rock.
01:18:53 --> 01:18:56 [SPEAKER_07]: That was still like its own category, right?
01:18:56 --> 01:18:59 [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas Green Day and Muse are not pro.
01:18:59 --> 01:19:03 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, Muse is kind of prog metal as an alternative rock band.
01:19:03 --> 01:19:04 [SPEAKER_07]: But like
01:19:04 --> 01:19:14 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, everybody was surprised when tool would do like interstitial music, like they were a progressive metal band, it made sense, but for green day to do that.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:18 [SPEAKER_07]: is a different thing entirely, right?
01:19:18 --> 01:19:31 [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, muse, I think shows a version of that, that's much more actually like, classically rooted or like romantic music, like sensal and that's turn to the century French music, right?
01:19:31 --> 01:19:43 [SPEAKER_07]: So not even classical, like late 1800s, early 1900s kind of stuff, just a different sort of vocabulary for a band that had radio hits though, you know?
01:19:43 --> 01:19:46 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't really know anything about muse.
01:19:46 --> 01:19:52 [SPEAKER_09]: I think I need an education in that, because every time you guys talk about them, like, oh, that sounds like something I could get into.
01:19:53 --> 01:19:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Music is going to be a band, you're going to like when I play them in season three because I want to do it.
01:19:58 --> 01:19:59 [SPEAKER_09]: I know that's what I'm excited.
01:19:59 --> 01:20:03 [SPEAKER_09]: I was hoping that we could cover, I want to learn more.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:05 [SPEAKER_09]: I want to be exposed to more genres of music.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:10 [SPEAKER_09]: I also think generally in music we need more concept albums.
01:20:11 --> 01:20:15 [SPEAKER_09]: I think we need like an escape from our everyday narrative.
01:20:15 --> 01:20:20 [SPEAKER_09]: And I want to hear some more storytelling in music and not just storytelling about like,
01:20:20 --> 01:20:25 [SPEAKER_09]: my boyfriend's cute and like let me give them a house store and his full of a new one in the window.
01:20:26 --> 01:20:28 [SPEAKER_07]: She could do a concept album though, so be it.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:32 [SPEAKER_09]: It would be about, there's only one concept.
01:20:32 --> 01:20:38 [SPEAKER_07]: It's kind of a, you can do a concept album about promiscuity or sex or whatever she wants to write it.
01:20:38 --> 01:20:40 [SPEAKER_09]: No, and she has, and she's done it quite well.
01:20:40 --> 01:20:41 [SPEAKER_09]: There's nothing wrong with that.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:45 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I mean, more concept albums, I think, and maybe even more rock opera is taking that term loosely.
01:20:46 --> 01:20:48 [SPEAKER_07]: Give me a reason to listen to all of it, right?
01:20:48 --> 01:20:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Give those nerves.
01:20:49 --> 01:20:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
01:20:50 --> 01:20:59 [SPEAKER_07]: My, I used to hassle my wife about this all the time back when we were listening to more radio than like, now there's more streaming stuff where we're controlling our destiny.
01:21:00 --> 01:21:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Show like wait till the song is like 93% done and skipped to another radio station.
01:21:05 --> 01:21:08 [SPEAKER_07]: I kind of like let it have it's cadence, let it let it end.
01:21:08 --> 01:21:13 [SPEAKER_07]: I got to hear the resolution, but on the other hand, I also came to understand that.
01:21:13 --> 01:21:17 [SPEAKER_07]: The fact that she's doing that exposes a personal failing on that song.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:20 [SPEAKER_07]: That song could not keep her interest for that last 10%.
01:21:20 --> 01:21:24 [SPEAKER_07]: And I will listen sometimes to an album that I really like.
01:21:24 --> 01:21:27 [SPEAKER_07]: And let's say I'm on a commute or a listening to it or whatever.
01:21:27 --> 01:21:31 [SPEAKER_07]: And I have like one more song left and I get home or whatever.
01:21:31 --> 01:21:39 [SPEAKER_07]: make me like sit in that car and listen to it or run an extra half mile though listen to that last song or whatever don't don't let me skip.
01:21:39 --> 01:21:45 [SPEAKER_07]: And so a concept album kind of gives you a reason to experience the whole thing.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:54 [SPEAKER_07]: In a way that maybe if you don't love the last two songs on an album and it's just a regular album, ah, maybe I'll just stop that track 11 or whatever.
01:21:55 --> 01:21:59 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, one of the more of a plot, I wonder more of a plot in the album, some listening to, for sure.
01:22:00 --> 01:22:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Let me ask you Nicole, because you're the president's psychologist.
01:22:05 --> 01:22:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Why has music been in a different, why do we approach music differently in our minds than we do like a book?
01:22:14 --> 01:22:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Because books are you, you know, they're very accessible now, they're digital everywhere.
01:22:19 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_08]: We could just read short stories down or novellas.
01:22:23 --> 01:22:24 [SPEAKER_08]: But we don't.
01:22:24 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_08]: We've stuck with the book, the thing that takes a long time beginning middle and end.
01:22:28 --> 01:22:31 [SPEAKER_08]: You mean like the novel, the novel?
01:22:31 --> 01:22:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, the novel.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Why is that stuck around?
01:22:35 --> 01:22:39 [SPEAKER_08]: But the album has been not because the format changed for both, right?
01:22:39 --> 01:22:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I mean, obviously, people still read physical books more than people listen to albums.
01:22:44 --> 01:22:46 [SPEAKER_08]: But why?
01:22:46 --> 01:22:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Why?
01:22:47 --> 01:22:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it has that
01:22:50 --> 01:22:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Another interesting thing that I'm layering on to your question is the idea of audiobooks as counting as real books.
01:22:57 --> 01:23:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Like if you listen to an audiobook, did you read the book?
01:23:00 --> 01:23:10 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that there's a connection between like a long narrative album and like a long great novel to like a TikTok single and an audio book.
01:23:11 --> 01:23:13 [SPEAKER_09]: I think that audiobooks are the equivalent.
01:23:17 --> 01:23:19 [SPEAKER_09]: attention span is the idea.
01:23:19 --> 01:23:22 [SPEAKER_07]: No, but it's almost like imagine if
01:23:23 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_07]: What you did was you listened to a chapter from the middle of a book and you listen to like chapter seven of this this literary fiction as a separate thing and you never or you even if you read that chapter seven you never read chapters one through six never listened to chapters eight through 15 we we pull out songs readily and we don't do that in every.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:49 [SPEAKER_09]: because we can.
01:23:49 --> 01:23:55 [SPEAKER_09]: We can pull out a single song from an album and have it stand alone, but you can't from a novel in the same way.
01:23:55 --> 01:24:00 [SPEAKER_09]: So maybe that's why novels have still stuck around our long-form writing history around.
01:24:00 --> 01:24:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Because you have to tell the story and maybe that's the argument for bringing back the concept album where albums that are rock-oppers or have a plot that will get us to stick around and listen to it.
01:24:12 --> 01:24:15 [SPEAKER_09]: So we have the full arc of the story like we do in novels.
01:24:16 --> 01:24:31 [SPEAKER_07]: I want to say that like if every album was a concept album and that was like the standard that people wouldn't do that, but people listen to one area from an opera, people listen to one song from a classical song cycle, people always do that with music.
01:24:31 --> 01:24:32 [SPEAKER_07]: There's something about it.
01:24:33 --> 01:24:42 [SPEAKER_07]: that is forever doomed to be cut up and excerpted in a way that maybe books aren't which is kind of interesting.
01:24:42 --> 01:24:45 [SPEAKER_07]: Does it have something to do with the fact that it's bound by time in a way that books aren't?
01:24:45 --> 01:24:51 [SPEAKER_07]: You can take your time reading a novel where as an album you're committing a fixed amount of time and it kind of has to be now.
01:24:52 --> 01:25:03 [SPEAKER_09]: Our minds are easier for us to interpret storytelling than it is just audio, like just notes, right, to someone that doesn't untrained ear.
01:25:04 --> 01:25:10 [SPEAKER_09]: It's going to be harder to keep their attention because you have to fabricate the story in your mind of how to attach to what you're hearing.
01:25:11 --> 01:25:19 [SPEAKER_09]: But in the book, it's kind of laid out right for you that you don't have to take the time to interpret it.
01:25:19 --> 01:25:20 [SPEAKER_09]: It's just prescribed to you.
01:25:21 --> 01:25:28 [SPEAKER_09]: That makes it more digestible, just like the way the pop music, and especially in short form is increasingly more digestible.
01:25:29 --> 01:25:34 [SPEAKER_09]: So maybe there's something to do with it there too, in terms of how our brains interpret information.
01:25:34 --> 01:25:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
01:25:36 --> 01:25:47 [SPEAKER_07]: It's weird though, because as much as I love a good concept album or even a good rock opera, I will sometimes listen to a song from it, and I would never watch a random 5 minutes from the movie I liked.
01:25:48 --> 01:25:51 [SPEAKER_07]: I know people may be due, but I never would think to do that, right?
01:25:51 --> 01:25:52 [SPEAKER_07]: And I could do that, right?
01:25:52 --> 01:25:58 [SPEAKER_07]: I could open the streamer and zoom into the 35th minute and do it, and just don't, right?
01:25:58 --> 01:26:00 [SPEAKER_07]: And nor do I read my favorite chapter of a book.
01:26:00 --> 01:26:01 [SPEAKER_07]: I just would never do that.
01:26:01 --> 01:26:05 [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe some people do, but I would totally do that with music.
01:26:06 --> 01:26:12 [SPEAKER_09]: You don't just like relax and like watch season one episode five of Head Rivalry as a standalone episode.
01:26:12 --> 01:26:14 [SPEAKER_07]: No, is that one of the sexiest ones or something?
01:26:15 --> 01:26:16 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they're all pretty great.
01:26:16 --> 01:26:20 [SPEAKER_09]: But no, it's one that has like a separate, it's like a subplot with it, whatever.
01:26:20 --> 01:26:21 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a bottle.
01:26:21 --> 01:26:22 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, all right.
01:26:22 --> 01:26:23 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a bottle, I'm sorry.
01:26:23 --> 01:26:23 [SPEAKER_07]: Got it.
01:26:23 --> 01:26:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, I haven't watched any of you, rivalry.
01:26:25 --> 01:26:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we knew we were going to talk about concept albums and rock operas and we knew Green Day would come up and folklore would come up.
01:26:33 --> 01:26:34 [SPEAKER_07]: But we didn't know much else.
01:26:35 --> 01:26:37 [SPEAKER_07]: And I thought this was a pretty fun conversation.
01:26:37 --> 01:26:41 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, there's lots of surprises around every corner here and nevermind the music.
01:26:42 --> 01:26:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you both for having me.
01:26:43 --> 01:26:47 [SPEAKER_08]: It's been a lovely time and yeah, this is this is a great podcast.
01:26:47 --> 01:26:48 [SPEAKER_08]: You guys should keep doing this for a while
01:26:50 --> 01:26:55 [SPEAKER_07]: We are so close to being done with season two, everybody.
01:26:55 --> 01:26:59 [SPEAKER_07]: We literally have one episode, our final mailbag.
01:26:59 --> 01:27:03 [SPEAKER_07]: So get stuff in, we're recording the week this comes out.
01:27:03 --> 01:27:05 [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be recording that mailbag.
01:27:06 --> 01:27:08 [SPEAKER_07]: And then we have one more episode.
01:27:09 --> 01:27:10 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's it.
01:27:10 --> 01:27:14 [SPEAKER_09]: So, like, how can they send us, how can people send us mailbag questions?
01:27:14 --> 01:27:16 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, if you want to write it in.
01:27:16 --> 01:27:18 [SPEAKER_07]: Tell us what you think about concept albums.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:43 [SPEAKER_07]: criticize us for forgetting stuff either never music pot at gmail.com or go to our discord and probably you've got to act fast though because I think we're recording in the middle of the week this comes out but we'll also have well always have extra mail bags we already have a lot of feedback actually for this mail bag it's kind of awesome people have been really wait i'm excited i think so much john for coming to our podcast it's always nice to see you
01:27:46 --> 01:27:55 [SPEAKER_07]: with the Laura Hound's right now, John, what can we can be of you aside from talking about how much you hate the guy that helped produce American idiot.
01:27:57 --> 01:27:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I do hate him.
01:27:58 --> 01:28:01 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't even know his name, but I hate my hatred for him lives in my heart.
01:28:02 --> 01:28:06 [SPEAKER_08]: I, uh, well, we're doing Cosmere Corner, which is not a Laura Hound's thing.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:09 [SPEAKER_08]: That's been my main focus the last few weeks in recording just because we're launching it.
01:28:10 --> 01:28:16 [SPEAKER_08]: That's talking about the Brandon Sanders in books because Apple's going to be adapting them in a few years and we're going to have a great time with that.
01:28:16 --> 01:28:32 [SPEAKER_08]: and it's not at all orhounds like what is that even it's not it's an affiliate it's an affiliate just like you guys it's an affiliate yeah um and uh but i'm just using me and Aaron and Richard from radioactive ramlings oh i love them yeah cool we're having a great time it's a crossover
01:28:33 --> 01:28:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Good.
01:28:35 --> 01:28:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Are you on any lower house shows right now?
01:28:37 --> 01:28:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, David and I are about to start Ted Lasso covered.
01:28:39 --> 01:28:41 [SPEAKER_08]: So we're going to be very cool.
01:28:41 --> 01:28:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't, I don't know for doing weekly because already two weeks of past, but we're doing at least check-ins.
01:28:47 --> 01:28:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm moving right now.
01:28:48 --> 01:28:51 [SPEAKER_08]: So it's a little bit hectic, but so you're doing these chains.
01:28:51 --> 01:28:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm watching Ted Lasso if you everyone tag me.
01:28:54 --> 01:28:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I love Ted Lasso.
01:28:57 --> 01:28:58 [SPEAKER_07]: I love it too.
01:28:58 --> 01:28:59 [SPEAKER_07]: And I watched the first
01:29:01 --> 01:29:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know I need it.
01:29:02 --> 01:29:03 [SPEAKER_09]: It's going to get by there.
01:29:03 --> 01:29:11 [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's delivered for the pod I have it for the pod that they're not going to invite me to because I'm just going to bug me everybody out and I love it.
01:29:11 --> 01:29:15 [SPEAKER_09]: I have the same take away That's like oh this better So you're John love it.
01:29:15 --> 01:29:17 [SPEAKER_07]: He's going to love it every day.
01:29:17 --> 01:29:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Look I as much as I did in a heater on this episode
01:29:21 --> 01:29:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I will say it's a serial show for me.
01:29:22 --> 01:29:36 [SPEAKER_08]: If you have you, you all have been around for a while, but I think not when we were doing the Mandalorian season three where I think I, that's when I coined the, this is, this is a show where you are in your pajamas eating serial on Saturday morning.
01:29:37 --> 01:29:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Like this is a turn off your brain.
01:29:39 --> 01:29:41 [SPEAKER_08]: You're just waking up in the morning and joy yourself.
01:29:41 --> 01:29:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't think about it too hard show.
01:29:43 --> 01:29:45 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's what Ted Lasso is for me.
01:29:45 --> 01:29:46 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a warm blanket.
01:29:46 --> 01:29:48 [SPEAKER_08]: That's what Ted Lasso is.
01:29:48 --> 01:29:49 [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't have to
01:29:49 --> 01:29:51 [SPEAKER_08]: just just go with it guys.
01:29:51 --> 01:29:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Just go with it man.
01:29:54 --> 01:29:54 [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
01:29:54 --> 01:29:57 [SPEAKER_09]: How often is she going to get barbecue sauce on her shirt?
01:29:57 --> 01:29:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Like we get it.
01:29:59 --> 01:29:59 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a bit.
01:29:59 --> 01:30:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like it's a call back to when he went barbecue sauce right before he had the dark.
01:30:05 --> 01:30:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
01:30:06 --> 01:30:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, baby.
01:30:07 --> 01:30:11 [SPEAKER_07]: See, am I supposed to take it seriously and get the call back?
01:30:11 --> 01:30:13 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to am I supposed to turn my brain off?
01:30:13 --> 01:30:17 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not us, it's not like you're not going to be deep meaning out of the call back.
01:30:17 --> 01:30:18 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just like, oh, that's funny.
01:30:18 --> 01:30:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Ted said barbecue sauce in a funny way.
01:30:20 --> 01:30:23 [SPEAKER_08]: And now she's got barbecue sauce over her shirt.
01:30:23 --> 01:30:27 [SPEAKER_09]: The end, that's just deep as it goes, Mark.
01:30:27 --> 01:30:29 [SPEAKER_09]: And that's why it's like candy.
01:30:29 --> 01:30:30 [SPEAKER_08]: You're saying welcome to Dairy.
01:30:30 --> 01:30:34 [SPEAKER_08]: There's no, there's no deep wells behind Ted Lasseau.
01:30:42 --> 01:30:46 [SPEAKER_09]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and hosted and produced by Mark Poppony.
01:30:49 --> 01:30:56 [SPEAKER_09]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow on social media.
01:30:57 --> 01:31:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Never mind the music is also part of the lorehounds network.
01:31:00 --> 01:31:02 [SPEAKER_09]: Please join the conversation on their discord server.
01:31:04 --> 01:31:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for listening.