Steve and Anthony are compelled to view demonic movies. Mostly, we talk about the 2023 Cairnes Bros flick. But Friedkin psychically infests this podcast.
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00:00 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, properly Howard fans, if you're here to listen to Steve and I cover late night with the devil, you are in the right place.
00:07 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_04]: At about minute 50, Steve and I talk a lot about the x-resist, the 1973 Billy Friedkin classic.
00:15 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So this podcast is a little bit of both.
00:17 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_04]: As always, make sure you're checking out everything that's happening with the
00:27 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Alright, let's hear Rocky Hill and Mickey.
00:30 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now you'll try.
00:32 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Properly Howell, a podcast that reviews classic films and other folk
00:55 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we take a look at the 2023 horror film Late Night with the Devil.
01:00 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_01]: This film is a little bit found footage, a little bit of a 1970s period piece, and a little bit of getting the Devil to be a special guest during Switch Week.
01:09 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_01]: With me to discuss this film as always is Dr. Anthony Lodon.
01:15 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, let me try this, just curious.
01:27 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's about the same level as you, I guess.
01:31 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well then, it's a Zencaster thing.
01:33 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what I can do about that.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: because you'd be better, you'd be better.
01:38 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I could try to do better, yeah.
01:40 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That'd be great, if you could work on being better, I think we'd be fine.
01:44 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I could get really close to the microphone like this.
01:47 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_04]: That's sensual, I like it.
01:50 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Steve, would you rather be, see would you read?
01:57 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I hope it didn't all this time for this.
01:58 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm hoping you didn't hear any of that.
02:02 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I got two ways to begin.
02:04 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_04]: We could either begin with the devil or Johnny Carson.
02:08 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You choose a potato potato.
02:13 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with Johnny.
02:15 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Where you had Johnny Carson family?
02:18 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I didn't stay up late a lot during, like, or, well, obviously, during early Carson.
02:26 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I wasn't fairly alive, but like, um,
02:32 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_04]: experience that I believe our local channel TV 50 would play reruns of the tonight show that's exactly my experience yeah okay my family was not a late night TV watching family and sometimes they would watch things late and I would like sneak out and sit on the stairs where no one could see me and sort of watch the TV that way but Carson was not on late I do feel like Carson was in my
03:01 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I remember, so it's a nice show as such a big deal.
03:05 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I think like reruns were a thing, like I remember even watching the Saturday night live, you know, first episode show, you know, one of the, you know, the movie based on that, and they were talking about like if they couldn't get it done in time, they were just going to rerun Carson.
03:19 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's right, like that was just an option, like a viable option was just more Carson he was king did there was yeah there was no way to go around I remember watching highlights of Carson you know it's like you know how you can look at like a Chris Farley best of SNL thing they used to do that with different Carson bits.
03:43 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_04]: and I remember just sitting there watching an entire highlights episode with my parents and them cracking up in way, you know, at jokes that I didn't quite understand.
03:55 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I feel like in terms of understanding who Carson was, it was almost Dana Carvey's impression of Carson.
04:05 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_04]: that hit me first.
04:07 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I'd seen Carson before, but I didn't know what was interesting about him until Dana Carvey was kind of spoofing him.
04:14 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fair.
04:14 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that that's kind of my experience too.
04:17 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, like, Carson was just sort of this, almost a symbol, maybe more than anything else, right?
04:25 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, he represented late night, and I didn't watch him at late night, but I knew that that's his world, that was his domain.
04:34 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And yet, our cineal was sort of like must see TV for me at one point, right, right, and such a big deal.
04:41 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It was exactly what everyone was worried about.
04:44 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Like Carson's not bringing in the younger demographic.
04:47 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I was the younger demographic.
04:49 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I was far more interested in watching our cineal than I was Carson.
04:55 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I was as much as Carson was part of the, you know, sort of the, uh,
05:01 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: almost daily just because of the rerun factor, I was a heavy letterman guy and which meant that I had to stay up pretty late to watch Letterman.
05:11 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so as I got a little bit older, I would sort of endure Carson like not didn't just like it necessarily, but I was much more a fan of the irreverent Letterman style.
05:26 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So any opportunity I could to stay up even later,
05:30 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I would do so, and yeah, and I remember our scenario being kind of a big, a big deal, and like, you know, it was definitely, definitely more our, our generation, I guess, right, or at least trying to appeal to that, I did not, I still preferred Letterman, like, I preferred the, his, his interview style and his, his approach, we're like, because our signal was actually pretty buttoned up if we think about it.
06:00 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: like it almost felt like it was a modern twist on the more of a carcin, like, you know, like his later like Conan comes along.
06:08 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's like, there's this interesting irreverence that happens in late night.
06:11 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going to compete with the king, you've kind of got to meet him, worries that, right?
06:17 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't, you can be modern, but you can't deviate too much from the formula, right?
06:23 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the formula isn't that nice.
06:26 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_04]: They haven't really deviated that from the formula even now.
06:29 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
06:30 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess Arsenio's audience was Rockus, right?
06:34 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And he would kind of build up the energy of that room.
06:39 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And he would get more hip-hop artists and whatnot than anything that was going to get.
06:43 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Otherwise, Arsenio was kind of doing Carson.
06:48 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, do you feel, and maybe this is maybe just kind of looking at the rear view mirror style,
06:56 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The burden for an arsenal or anybody that was going to go head to head with Carson was about who was going to be on the show, whereas Carson could just, Carson, you're almost tuning in to see people be interviewed by Carson as opposed to, oh, cool, our studio hall has tribe cold quest on.
07:18 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll stay up to watch that.
07:20 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, I didn't know a lot of pop culture people at that age, so for me, I knew that Arsenio was going to feel like a party, and so I was really going for the party, whereas Carson just felt like of a different generation.
07:39 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So he could have a big star on, but I probably wouldn't have known that star very well.
07:45 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, unless he had a shot of Stevens on in that case, I was all in there.
07:50 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the other thing too, like Carson's like, when his like skits and bits were almost at their best, as maybe more so later when he was clearly Carson in it,
08:02 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
08:03 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he wasn't trying to disappear into this character.
08:06 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, oh, if he fumbles it a little bit or he makes a face, like he thinks like this is somehow beneath like it was an interest.
08:13 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a a unique experience that was like, like, oh, they're put Carson as Karnak and you can't tell if you likes the bit at all, right?
08:26 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And like he would just and like he seemed irritated by it.
08:28 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was part of the stick because
08:31 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like his carcin was like almost this royal figure.
08:34 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And America loved Carson.
08:37 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So even when Carson was bad, we kind of felt bad for him.
08:42 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
08:42 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And you felt his fault.
08:44 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Like somehow we did this.
08:48 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We were all involved with the failure.
08:51 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we could have been a better audience.
08:54 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We should have laughed harder.
08:55 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_04]: So this movie that we're covering today, late now with the devil, is the conceit of it is that we're watching one of Carson's competitors.
09:05 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_04]: This exists in kind of an alternate universe where Arsenio maybe isn't a thing, but they've got some other guy that's trying to compete with Carson.
09:18 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Earlier, you know, earlier than Arsenio, I guess.
09:22 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_04]: What is this start with?
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_04]: 1970, something?
09:28 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because the actual prologue.
09:31 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I think we're seeing sort of the tail end of this particular, because this is 77 is when this 77.
09:37 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this particular episode.
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a Halloween special.
09:42 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, there's a theme to the particular show.
09:46 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a spooky.
09:49 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
09:49 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you now you had not seen this movie right I had you had seen the movie.
09:55 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and you enjoyed it.
09:57 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like it.
09:58 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I did.
09:58 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I so I watched this movie like probably like two in the morning.
10:01 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: One night.
10:02 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and and Heather and I both enjoyed it, but we weren't sure like how like awake.
10:09 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We were in an army like I know we watched it and we liked it.
10:14 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of nice to revisit it and she revisited it as well.
10:17 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think she liked it even more this time and as did I.
10:23 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And because I think I caught some things that I maybe didn't quite connect like I wanted things I really enjoy about it is not only is the head to head to the Carson thing, but sort of the how the show like sort of evolves or devolves if you will into sort of the like the kind of chronicle, also like the Donna Hugh.
10:47 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: to Oprah, to all the way to Heralbo, to get to the Jerry Springer world where like, where it goes from, it tries to, like it starts off one way, but almost in an effort for desperation, has to sort of up the camp or up the controversial,
11:08 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: and scandalous, and so it has to sort of go that route.
11:12 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think maybe we should explain to the kids what sweep sweep is, for sure.
11:18 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But explain, yeah, so this is when the Nielsen, the another term, the Nielsen ratings were big, right?
11:28 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So the Nielsen, they would like that, it would be in a specific, this is sweep sweep, would happen, I think, a different intervals, right?
11:38 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe like quarterly or something, and so this is like set to like it's supposed to get your advertising rates up and it's supposed to do this kind of can make or break how well funded you are again with the advertising dollars and so that's when you would like kind of pull out all the stops.
11:56 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to be a live show for sure, you know, bigger guest stars.
12:00 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a television show, you may do want to have a cliffhanger,
12:05 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that that was, I mean, it was like, yeah, there was going to be some like great dramatic.
12:14 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_04]: event that was going to happen that you wouldn't normally see on a show, you know, it is magnum pi I going to die, you know, right.
12:21 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're going to shave his mustache.
12:25 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is I guess it's supposed to be sweet, sweet for our main character, Jack Delroy, and he decides he's going to try to up the Annie, you know, he wants to really get those eyeballs
12:40 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And his idea is that, well, it's Halloween.
12:43 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So why don't we have on the author of this book?
12:48 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Does it feel like he's also kind of like having a relationship with this woman?
12:54 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think the, I think Mr. Riggles basically calls it out specifically, right?
13:00 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, so Jack Delroy is having is having some sort of a relationship.
13:04 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so the book is not published yet and he has some kind of connection with this psychic expert and I feel like I think what the what the movie is trying to say is that he's scrambling he's going to do anything he can he might even use a personal relationship because
13:26 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_04]: he has some information that he thinks will improve the ratings of the show and he's going to almost capitalize on this personal relationship with this woman so he I mean it's more than he bargained for he thinks he's going to see something kind of nuts but the devil shows up and of course he's he's thrilled because the devil's going to bring good ratings yes
13:56 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, there's a connection, obviously, between Delroy and not only this, the psychic and I think I think the way that he, the way he touches or what Mr. Riggles reveals, you know, at least to the degree that there's something there, right?
14:13 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously some relationship, either brewing or having brewed, but then there's,
14:21 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, Mr. Riggles, I've just keep on referring to him that way, refers to an encounter that him and Jack had had at the groves, the supposed to be right.
14:32 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I do think that there is the movie almost assumes that you know what that is.
14:39 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to know what the Bohemian grove is, right?
14:42 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So we grew up very close to the Bohemian Grove.
14:44 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And in fact, my wife was a staff member at the campground that's like a stone throw from Bohemian Grove.
14:53 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But there's a lot of rumors going around.
14:56 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And the idea here is that for years and years, the Republican Party and other sort of elite members of society would get together with the Bohemian Grove,
15:11 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_04]: for retreat and all kinds of weird stuff was gonna happen there.
15:15 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's a secret society, maybe it's a cult.
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe there's sacrifices happening.
15:23 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_04]: In reality, it was probably just a bunch of old politicians who were bringing in younger prostitutes, or something like that.
15:32 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I did have a friend who was parking cars at the Bahumian Grove and we're just thinking that ever happened to her was a Senator gave her a big tip and said, there's more, there's more where that came from if you wanna show up at my cabin or something.
15:47 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So it was sort of like an advance to a younger female
15:53 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_04]: staff worker.
15:54 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So clearly, you know, older, corrupt Republican men, basically.
16:02 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_04]: But of course, the rumors also included the occult, right?
16:07 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's kind of what this movie is premised on.
16:12 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:12 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And what's it?
16:13 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of liked about it.
16:14 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there is definitely just,
16:23 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_01]: prologue to all of this, and the Grove is mentioned and we get some images and I like that it didn't necessarily belabor the point.
16:34 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It does assume you know a little bit about the Bohemian Grove, but also if you know that's okay we know that there's a Grove here that there's something to go on up and and I think the movie because it's not very long movie and it's
16:50 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's intended to cover like a lot of major ground, you know, given that it's not a long movie.
16:55 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think that the prologue goes on a little bit too long?
16:58 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
16:59 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the prologue is still shorter than however many studio labels had to start in the beginning of this movie.
17:06 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not as long and dull as the prologue to the exercise, which I walked for the first time this week.
17:20 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: quick watch of the exercises this morning.
17:25 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, what is it like quick watch?
17:27 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I watched what is what like two and a half hour movies out of it.
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It's it's up there.
17:33 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean I think I watched it in like an hour and a half.
17:38 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So you just fast forward a bunch of boring stuff.
17:40 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Good Lord, dude.
17:45 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_04]: It's freaking freaking loves this kind of stuff now if you if you said 42 minutes before something happens I It's very much like source or in that way.
17:55 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I Think that there are elements of that movie here.
17:58 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me let me say this all right so contained with in it
18:02 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_04]: is the best horror story ever told.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
18:07 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_04]: You just have to go through this long maze to get there.
18:10 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, some people, I would imagine, I mean, it's one of the most well-received movies of all time.
18:16 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's not like my opinion matters with it.
18:19 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to, probably not going to change people's perspective on whether or not the exorcist is an iconic horror classic.
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: properly how we're just finally just undid all the work that's gone on.
18:32 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I watched it twice.
18:36 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Yesterday was sort of like my exorcist day.
18:38 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I watched the exorcist twice.
18:40 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I watched like two documentaries about it.
18:45 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So I was all about the devil yesterday and I definitely appreciate it as sort of a feat of movie making.
18:56 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just a slog at times and all of the elements that were like the actress and her party friends and all of the interaction she has with a little girl before the little girl gets interesting.
19:13 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, I love, so this is, again, this is Anthony's commentary on 12
19:20 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_04]: 12-year-old can only be interesting if possessed by Pazuzu.
19:26 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yes, I know also Pazuzu.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:31 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_04]: So I will say this though, you know, getting back to late night with the devil.
19:35 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_04]: This movie feels to me like it's derivative.
19:40 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_04]: of other horror movies.
19:43 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And the exercise to me feels like a real-life story recounted by a priest who's familiar with this particular ancient ritual.
19:53 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it is, it's almost a different genre of moving, but it does feel in conversation with the exercise.
20:02 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't watch a lot of possession movies, but I feel like I get it, you know what I mean?
20:09 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's probably safe to say that most possession movies feel derivative of the exorcist because the exorcist is sort of this sort of baseline gold standard.
20:19 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to end up with a lot of familiar themes that the exorcist is already touched on maybe in a way that's hard to improve upon.
20:28 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So I really like what I liked about this movie is I felt that this movie was more a period
20:39 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: television and the sensationalism of media as a marketing means, and the horror movie was sort of also there.
20:48 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, I understand it's a horror movie, but it kind of feels to me that this is, I could read this easily as watching that's incredible or real people as a kid.
21:00 --> 21:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were many that's incredible that
21:04 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_01]: all of a sudden would sort of become this exploitative kind of shlocky common or, you know, you know, themes, and it was like, well, this is sort of what would happen if those things, like, if you flew too close to the sun, right?
21:22 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if those things actually were happening, like, you're trying to scare people, you're trying to keep them sort of titulated,
21:27 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But you're doing so in a fictional world.
21:29 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is sort of like this is what would have happened if all these other components were real.
21:35 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you've got a celebrity that is mixing with the occult in this grove and that grove is really doing those things.
21:44 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you put that person in a scenario where they're exploiting this thing for sweeps weeks, but it turns out that it actually is a possession.
21:53 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you get this sort of like perfect storm of all that stuff coming together.
21:58 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of I think what I like this movie more so than maybe some other possession type films.
22:07 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's because there's like just another layer of like what's like what kind of brings it out and what's at stake because I immediately after this started looking up something that really.
22:17 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_01]: affected me as a kid, and that is the, that's incredible episode where they talk about the haunted toys of us.
22:23 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: There are a series of hauntings in a most unlikely location, an ordinary toy store in Sunnyvale, California.
22:31 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a story of unrequited love, and not like some of the violence we see at other, let's say ghost stories, it's sad.
22:39 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Go Saras, can I haunt you?
22:46 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So as a kid, I was terrified of this because if we have this footage of like, of like there was like supposedly like this ghostly boy and the toys of ours and like it would be like all of you.
22:56 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I never saw this one.
22:59 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this one was like nearby, I think it was like an sunny veil.
23:03 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember my mom taking me to that toys of ours and I refused to get out of the car.
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It was me.
23:08 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are a child in like the early 80s and you,
23:14 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: you have the opportunity to go to Toys the Rush, you go and you stay and you want to live there.
23:19 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So the very idea that I would not go into the Toys the Rush would suggest that that show was very effective and messing with me, right?
23:28 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what that's incredible and those kinds of shows would do is they would bring in something and they would have these stories and it was like just to kind of just to keep you like you wanted to be you wanted to be a little nervous you wanted to be a little spooked you wanted to be a little freaked out.
23:41 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what I liked about this because it sort of brings you to this sort of like this is sort of the evolution towards the the scandal ridden you know springers and heraldos and all of those types of shows but.
23:56 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Also some in it in those 70s like 70s where those kinds of the real people's ripples believe it or not, they really wanted the lean into like I think we later we get things like like unsolved mysteries because they're like more based and like like crime, but this there was an interesting level of kind of obsession with the supernatural.
24:17 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And you almost wonder how much of that may have may have been born from something like the exercises.
24:22 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_01]: If you think about the
24:25 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It's true.
24:26 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm glad that you brought in Donahue and Oprah earlier because the premise of this movie, aside from like the actual devil showing up, is very much at home in the world that the television world I grew up with the 80s.
24:41 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it would not be uncommon for someone like Haraldo or Donahue or Oprah to have on someone without landish claims.
24:50 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Some people are gonna be ghost hunters,
24:54 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities to have someone on who was claiming to be an exorcist.
25:01 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
25:02 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Or in, in, in the case of this woman, she's not claiming to be an exorcist.
25:06 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_04]: She's claiming to like have a child with psychic infestation.
25:12 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_04]: What am I, I don't know, I don't know how you would know about these things ahead of time to get eyeballs.
25:18 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Would you be hoping to get a word of mouth bump?
25:22 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, hey, turn it on Jack Delroy.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You're not gonna believe this.
25:27 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how I got introduced to the last dragon.
25:30 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It was John Kale called me on.
25:33 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
25:45 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I think when we really feel like something like significant as happening is when Christu is almost wrapped up his little psychic love Christu then.
25:57 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So Christu comes out, again, it feels like someone's done internet research.
26:04 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Jesus is going to die eventually in the third, so you're metaphor.
26:09 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And he's got this really put on accent.
26:14 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Which, you know, for me, it was a little bit like, okay, that's kind of works because I think most of these psychics are, they almost are trying to be, you know, far Eastern exotic or something like that.
26:29 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And so he's got this accent and he's doing the regular thing was like, I'm getting a name and then he kind of like.
26:37 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_04]: looks around the room for someone that has a name that's similar, you know, right, is it Pete?
26:42 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Pete?
26:43 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Peter?
26:45 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Peterson?
26:47 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Peter men?
26:47 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, that kind of thing.
26:49 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know, all of this is kind of part of his stick.
26:53 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And then he's about to be done with his stick.
26:57 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_04]: And then you hear this scene, we're going to have to take a quick break.
27:00 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Folks, when we come back, though, one of the old friends of our show,
27:07 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's something very intense here.
27:13 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps, are we getting another message from Edmund?
27:15 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, this is- Ah!
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting the name Mini!
27:25 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Does anyone here know a Mini please accept?
27:27 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So immediately the accent goes away.
27:32 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_04]: And the bad acting kind of...
27:35 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_04]: goes away.
27:36 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
27:37 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like he's like welcoming someone into an act.
27:40 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like save me from this experience.
27:45 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I need someone to accept this connection.
27:48 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_04]: So it doesn't hurt me anymore.
27:51 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Which is kind of like, you know, I would say that this is my trope.
27:54 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I like it when a psychic who is pretending to do something magical, like something actually magical happens to
28:04 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:05 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So that to me is where this this the entire movie kind of shifts.
28:09 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_04]: This guy who's pretty well connected to the showmanship of this world is experiencing something that he doesn't know how to deal with.
28:19 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:19 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that there's I think there's a really cool subtle element of this too.
28:24 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Like to your point, he he loses the accent.
28:28 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He is overwhelmed
28:34 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_01]: like, I need someone to accept it, I know, so it suggests that he really does have some sort of psychic ability and and what has happened is that he's like the stakes have never been tremendously high for whatever this ability is and he is a bit of a con artist and he can have these moments, so it adds them an element of like, well, maybe there is some authenticity to it because he knew what to instead of being like, what's going on?
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's going on.
29:04 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he would be a complete Charlotte and he kind of knew he's what we go burger and go.
29:09 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's there's probably some core elements of it.
29:13 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And the important thing about that is it tells you that this world can like there's that there's some truth to what's going on in all of this right.
29:22 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's an important element because that way it doesn't just feel like there's a leap just feel like there are
29:28 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_01]: there are hints to the supernatural between the growth between this like Christu's reaction being like, oh, this is I somebody has to accept that they need this to go away.
29:38 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's right.
29:39 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
29:39 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So I like that a lot.
29:41 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_04]: And the thing that for me, the fatal flow of this movie was the
29:48 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_04]: the skeptic.
29:49 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_04]: The Carmichael guy who was Carmichael Hague.
29:52 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Who felt to me like he was a little bit of a Salmon Rushdie look alike.
29:58 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I think he's a specific homage to Salmon Rushdie.
30:03 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I just thought that guy was one of the worst actors I've ever seen in my life.
30:08 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to agree and disagree at
30:14 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, before you do that, his name is Ian Bliss.
30:17 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Ian Bliss, we'd love you to come on the show and tell us why you're such a horrible actor.
30:22 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I, the first time I saw this movie, I was like, was having a hard time with this character.
30:32 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_01]: As you should, because he's horrible.
30:34 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I was like, no, he works for me.
30:39 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He works for you.
30:43 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_01]: that character to be just as much of a phony as Christu, right?
30:49 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_01]: He's, he's, I mean, he's, he's, he's also doing like massive noses and he's doing, you know, amazing.
31:00 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_04]: He's a magician who's now going to reveal all the tracks, right?
31:04 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_04]: But he's going to do it in a way that is just the most condescending
31:09 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_04]: way possible.
31:10 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think you're supposed to like him very much, right?
31:13 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_04]: He's the foil.
31:14 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Just fine.
31:15 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I just, I found it like this.
31:17 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I found it would be so can't be that it was almost impossible for me to think that this wasn't an intentional choice.
31:26 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I didn't do, I remember when I, I remember when I said, had you sit down and watch the man from earth.
31:33 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
31:34 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_02]: you did not teach chemistry.
31:36 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I do not believe you.
31:38 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You had a beard.
31:41 --> 31:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, she would have got right in.
31:44 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_04]: You could have been right in with all of the actors in a man from her.
31:50 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he is a jarring character and I don't, I don't know how to read him because I
32:04 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And without, like I said, without some intentionality behind it.
32:07 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm, I'm, I'm reserving some judgment on that for another watch because I, I, I, I don't feel like, I don't feel like his performance was supposed to be fully sincere.
32:20 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he was as much of a showman as anybody on there.
32:23 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he was sort of putting on an affect the entire time.
32:26 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of felt like,
32:27 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_04]: part of what made him obnoxious was how obnoxious he was and then how he was even when he was talking about how like hey interdisciplinary your growth friends i didn't buy it so there were some really good there was some really good actors in this and not actors that i'm familiar with and i kind of like little budget single studio movies like this and i don't know what the budget was but i'm sure it wasn't a huge budget
32:52 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was impressed by a lot of what this movie did.
32:56 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that this Carmichael Hague character was kind of a fatal flaw to the movie.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_04]: The other thing I was gonna ask you about is,
33:05 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not entirely a found footage thing like they almost like bring in the found footage concede to put them they drop it and and well it's supposed to be like even then half of the movies black and white and so I want to know if this is working for you they said they they say that there's the there's the episode footage and then there's some other behind the scenes footage.
33:29 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the belief that somebody was sort of docked.
33:30 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_04]: You're someone following these, well, having a camera on people who think that they're secretly having conversation, right, which I mean, that's fine.
33:40 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I, I think if I, if I totally bought in the movie, I'm not going to recognize the scenes in that case, but because I was thinking, okay, this is found a foot, found footage.
33:53 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Are you going to stick to that conceit or not?
33:56 --> 34:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And my thing is is I feel like this is maybe one of the least found footage he found footage movies I've ever seen.
34:04 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Another way to say that is that it's the worst found footage maybe I almost wonder if they If they would just be better served just a not have said found footage at all.
34:15 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so too because I don't I don't because I mean I don't.
34:19 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I I gave up on it being like this is the episode that people saw on TV or whatever because I just was that that didn't that didn't add anything to it to me just play as is you know I mean exactly and so so I sort of
34:35 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Just sort of say, well, maybe you want it to be found footage, but it's not truly found for it.
34:40 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_04]: See, that's a little bit why I'm saying that this movie feels derivative.
34:43 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels like instead of studying something in the world that scares you, you've studied a lot of horror movies, and now you're gonna grab bits and pieces from those horror movies.
34:54 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Someone made a movie because they like horror movies and that's kind of their frame of reference for these things.
35:01 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and I feel like for a position movie, one of the great things about it is that people actually believe in demonic possession, people experience this stuff.
35:11 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_04]: There are actual rituals going on in the world.
35:14 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_04]: This makes this fundamentally different than a Frankenstein movie or a where-wolf movie.
35:20 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, if you're going to do a big foot movie, then I want to know something about big foot culture that I haven't seen on screen before.
35:29 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I want you to go out.
35:30 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I want you to figure out what makes these weirdo big foot people tick.
35:35 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Because that's interesting to me.
35:37 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So I feel like there was an opportunity to do something with a demon possession movie that they just didn't do.
35:44 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Did I lose you?
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I've been muted for a long time.
35:49 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, so I feel like there was something that there was a missed opportunity to tell me something about the weird culture of exorcism that was just completely missed.
36:03 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, and I, and I, we're all disagree is I feel like it doesn't need to and I think it,
36:17 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_01]: possession.
36:18 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It assumes, especially this, again, this movie is set in 1977.
36:22 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_01]: This is four years after your exorcism, sure exorcist is still very much on people's minds and people are re-watching, probably being re-released in theaters.
36:31 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So possession is probably in the the zeitgeist, right?
36:37 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: To your point, a lot of people experience this so that it becomes something
36:44 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: certain groups and it's obviously probably talked about religious groups and any biblical studies and blah, blah.
36:52 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So it could bring you to a different place.
36:54 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it does try to do something with, I mean, there's no priest.
37:02 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no religious aspect.
37:04 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's more of a discussing it from a psychological standpoint.
37:14 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: from a psychological standpoint, which suggests, this is not, they're not less interested with the cure than they are discovery.
37:26 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So, which is exactly the conceit of the show, right?
37:30 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, that's the, so and I go back to what I was saying, I believe that this is as much, if not more,
37:38 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: a commentary on what would you do if you were a sensationalistic TV show with a celebrity that is kind of maybe first and foremost sold out to fame so that who really sold their soul in this?
37:55 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the girl that's possessed or is it the celebrity host that is willing to exploit and eventually put people in danger?
38:08 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously been an interaction with this entity in the Grove, whether it's been face-to-face, or at least you've dabbled in this world.
38:18 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a, you have an occult relationship that I've been a, I've been privy to, whether or not you realize that you were privy to me because you've all been kind of welcoming this type of activity, right?
38:33 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So,
38:35 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: the door, you could say, is opened by Jack Delroy.
38:40 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So now you've got this, oh, we're going to do this sensationalistic thing for ratings and, you know, and he doesn't care, like he, it's weird because he doesn't care about the ramifications, because he doesn't care about them when he's obviously been stepping into the grove.
38:54 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of, what is, what is this for?
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: This is for your own personal gain.
38:58 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_01]: This is for your own celebrity.
38:59 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you,
39:00 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you giving up in this grove and for what?
39:04 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_01]: If if the exchange is to become, you know, famous, then that's where you're at, right?
39:09 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So this idea of the possession, I feel like the possession is kind of the back, like that's more of the back drop, that the possession is the boxing that in Rocky.
39:20 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not.
39:21 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
39:29 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_01]: itself, or that's, this is, this is the sensationalism gone horribly wrong.
39:37 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what happens when you, when you trivialize or sensationalize, that which is bigger and bigger than you.
39:47 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the irresponsibility on all parts, right?
39:51 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Even she is a psychologist is like,
39:57 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_01]: she says she's caring for this girl and she loves her and blah, blah, blah, it's like, yeah, but you are willing to parade her around on television and trying to promote this.
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to write a book about exactly.
40:06 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, so, so in so much as you may love her, you need her to the more she's possessed the better.
40:14 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And so and so I don't I didn't really read her that way.
40:17 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I did I did think that she was I think she she earnestly wants the girl to recover from her a cult background.
40:26 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that when she realizes this is going to get goofy.
40:29 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I I do not want to participate.
40:31 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Eventually she does participate.
40:33 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she has me.
40:33 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that she is responsible on that.
40:35 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think she's I think she has it has no fair.
40:38 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she's has it because I think she believes it because I think she I mean, I think she knows that this is like, yeah.
40:43 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen enough of this to know that we might not want to go this next step further.
40:51 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, look, this is like, you want to get, you know, you want to get famous.
40:55 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I need the racism.
40:56 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to make, and it's all going to be fine.
40:58 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything's going to be fine.
40:58 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We got you.
40:59 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to, and so he's, because he's singularly minded in that regard.
41:03 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's appealing to the notion of like that whatever level of fame, she's looking for, she may not be looking for TV famous.
41:09 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He may not even realize it fully, but she's obviously writing the book.
41:13 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't write a book and you don't agree to bring somebody on television initially if you're not at least a little bit interested in getting some fame out of this.
41:22 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
41:24 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to talk about the end, all right.
41:25 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_04]: So the way that I interpret the end is that he's kind of brought into either a hypnotic state or he's seen a different astral plane or something.
41:37 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_04]: He enters into the bedroom of his wife, who is named Mini, who has since passed.
41:44 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And he's having either a hallucination or an encounter on this other plane.
41:50 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_04]: where she asks him to end her life, he takes a knife and does it.
41:58 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And then the camera cuts to him on stage, putting a knife into the body of the young girl.
42:05 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And the way that I'm reading that, so you help me here, because I could be misreading it, is that once he's sort of been drawn into the psychic experience,
42:18 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_04]: He's hallucinating now, and he's about to kill this girl on live television, thinking that he's doing his wife of favor.
42:28 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that how you read it?
42:31 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I also got the sense that like, okay, like he's.
42:36 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's kind of coming to the realization that he may have sacrificed his wife soul in exchange, right, for his own fame.
42:47 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, why would you now help me with that one?
42:51 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Tell me, tell me more about that.
42:53 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's, well, doesn't the, the, the demon say say as much.
43:01 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I might have missed it.
43:03 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what basically is being said.
43:09 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Are you saying that like he's in the grove and he's basically made a deal with the devil where he gives up many so he can have fame or yeah.
43:20 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, interesting.
43:21 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And so.
43:22 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:22 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And so.
43:24 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_01]: the idea being that he makes this this packed and he's basically it's exchange for his own success and but in order to do so like I guess like in way like he's responsible for her cancer right and so she's been she's like begging to be put out of misery and so he he he does and so like
43:49 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_01]: this is, you know, it was where the found footage obviously becomes moot because the episode, the cameras wouldn't have picked up his exact, this is a solution, part of the problem, I mean, yeah, I can, I know, and I, to me, I just didn't even care, I didn't even really care.
44:07 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's this idea that like, okay, so I'm reading this as like he sacrifices,
44:13 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_01]: if he sacrificed his his wife for this like okay now his his career is kind of done right and all this all this bloodshed and he actually ends up being the one to I guess killed this this girl essentially sacrifice her on on live TV which kind of goes online with the sort of the grove there has been rumors of sacrifice here they uses the actual dagger that would be used
44:40 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, in so doing, I guess sort of like kind of kills himself to a degree right like this is this is the end of all of it like this is sort of what you brought it's kind of like a monkey's paw wish it's like yeah you might get really great ratings and so you got what you wanted right but this is going to be your last show yeah no questions like here you are you've done it you've probably got the most.
45:03 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_01]: watched and intense show of all time.
45:08 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And it cost you everything to get there.
45:11 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is so we go bring it back to like when you talk about tropes that you like I like it when there's like whether it's a demon or a ghoul or something but like it's interesting when like the devil is portrayed as sort of this like kind of this arbiter of like justice like it's an interesting
45:32 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: the idea of like the devil as well.
45:34 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just the opposite, right?
45:35 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just he reveling in misery.
45:40 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_01]: But when Mr. Riggles is communicating through the young girl, he's like calling out Jack Delroy, like basically, we met before, you know, you've done, like this whole idea, like kind of laying out the whole idea that like, like ha ha, this is it, you know, you, for yourself,
46:00 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_01]: now you're going to pay this price.
46:02 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I've, you know, kind of put this elaborate little thing again.
46:04 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.
46:04 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I like it when like the devil's actually seems to be like, he's all about given, given people they're come up in, right?
46:13 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think there's like a long sort of American connection with the devil as someone that he can be dealt with, right?
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_04]: You can trade.
46:23 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You always, you always trick it, you know, you may make you the best guitarist who's ever lived, but you're going to have to sell your soul to do it to or, you know, there's just a lot of stories in American folklore of
46:36 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_04]: the devil, almost being a businessman and or a con artist or something like that.
46:42 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And then eventually you're gonna realize that you got got.
46:50 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And he drank that.
46:51 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like that element of just this, but it's almost just in a weird way, right?
46:56 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like, this is the price you have to pay and it's like, you know, it kind of rumbles in it, but it's like,
47:04 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just, it's not just a chaos agent necessarily, right?
47:08 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's like, I know what, I know what you got lurking and I've got the exact penalty for it.
47:16 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And it said, that's, I find that as a fascinating element of what you see a lot with maybe the devil in certain pop culture.
47:27 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a tweak that you'd make to this movie to improve it?
47:31 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I think getting rid of the just the reference of found footage like we talked about is helpful because, again, it didn't bother me because I just ignored it.
47:40 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But like just having it there does bring into question sort of the a deafness of the presentation.
47:47 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think like the to your point, you're like kind of questioning some of the things.
47:52 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I mean, if you're gonna do a Blair which thing do a Blair which thing.
47:56 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a well-worn horror conceit.
48:02 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_04]: and we've seen it done very, you know, we've seen it done to great effect.
48:06 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And so if you're going to do it, you kind of have to do it as well as everything that has come before you.
48:12 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_04]: My tweak is going to be Ian Bliss.
48:15 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Ian Bliss was torture to me.
48:20 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to get rid of him.
48:22 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I think this movie could
48:32 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about, I think this is good that we're doing this.
48:36 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I do want to talk about possession, genre, and since we did, since you watched Exodus twice, and I dabbled in it, I think it'd be worth to just, like, do you feel, do you feel the ending of the Exodus to satisfy it?
48:52 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes, I think it's, it's an amazing, and for a movie that begins so slow, how long could
49:03 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Or even it was might nine hours.
49:06 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like I feel like I feel like a 40 minute movie.
49:09 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
49:10 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the thing about this.
49:11 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I think this is kind of a freaking thing.
49:15 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_04]: If you're in the mindset that like I'm gonna watch a Billy Freak and movie, I think you have to be like willing to go along for that ride.
49:24 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And if you are willing to go along with for that ride,
49:27 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_04]: and you just kind of like suspend it and say, look, I'm just gonna have to live through this for a little bit.
49:33 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_04]: He wants to build a particular kind of world so that the impact of the final scene hits me.
49:38 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
49:39 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I'm along for that ride.
49:41 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I- Well, but here's the thing is you're not obviously alone.
49:44 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie was a blockbuster.
49:46 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie is celebrated.
49:49 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_04]: now it's and I think but I think that there's there was a lot of I think movie making was just different in 1973.
49:57 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean there's no way I mean if this was if if the exercise was made today and it was on Netflix you would see the exercise them within the first two minutes.
50:10 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And then it would be like, you know, seven years earlier, you know, and you go back to Iraq.
50:16 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But what are people talking about, right?
50:18 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing is I'm going to maybe, I'm going to try to take the exercises down or not.
50:25 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You have some of the most memorable horrifying scenes, right?
50:30 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That people talk about.
50:31 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember as a kid, people, kids would like, you know, quote, of course, some of the worst
50:39 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's gone, but that dinner party scene.
50:42 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I really like the way they established the piano playing priest.
50:46 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's talking about that kind of stuff, right?
50:50 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what you have is you have like 40 minutes of
50:56 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_01]: like probably never before seen stuff on film.
51:01 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is so horrific and it is so over the top.
51:05 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's juxtaposed with the 12 year old actress doing this stuff and these priests are sort of befuddled and there's just so much going on.
51:15 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of stuff with the doctors that you just feel like, oh my gosh.
51:19 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
51:19 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_04]: You need all of these doctors.
51:21 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: This is clearly not a doctor movie.
51:23 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:23 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're there saying,
51:26 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a freed king guy, you go for the journey and you believe you're that and I'm telling you there's no way in my opinion that this movie is a blockbuster because people wanted to go on the freed king journey they only remember and celebrate the destination.
51:54 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I had promised you that there are people that rewatch the exorcist, and they, uh, they second screen for about an hour and a half, right.
52:07 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let me, let's just take the spectrum in 1973.
52:12 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know who Billy Freak is.
52:14 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_04]: He's got no legacy.
52:15 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_04]: You've never seen a head spin around on screen before.
52:18 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_04]: You've never seen peace soup, projectile onto a priest stole.
52:24 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know any of this is about to happen.
52:27 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_04]: He kind of loll's you in with the cinema verite, but about an hour and you've almost forgotten what you're there for.
52:35 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_04]: And so this is probably unlike any horror movie experience you've ever had.
52:44 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And so to bring in that you bring you into this world that feels like it could have easily been like the godfather.
52:50 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_04]: It horrifies you even more toward the end because he's kind of lulled you to sleep.
53:00 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
53:01 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess you've already paid your money.
53:02 --> 53:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So you'll sit through it.
53:03 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Where is now we're looking back on this.
53:05 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_04]: There's no way to little us to sleep because if we're feeling sleepy, we're going to play eight ball pool on our phone.
53:13 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's impossible to lose to sleep.
53:15 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_04]: It's impossible for anyone, like I watched the extras for the first time yesterday.
53:20 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_04]: guess what I knew was going to happen at the end.
53:22 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, exactly.
53:25 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen that scene where her head spins around 100 times in my life.
53:30 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
53:30 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's the Billy freaking experience is just not going to work on me in the same way.
53:35 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So I kind of forced myself the second watch to be like, no, I'm just going to go along for the ride because he's a master storyteller and I feel like I
53:50 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_04]: the fact that you kind of fast forwarded a bunch of stuff this morning in order to get to the end.
53:56 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably, I mean, Billy Freakin, if he's not in hell right now, is rolling over his grave lamenting the fact that some dude fast forwarded all this other stuff that he wanted in place so that you could have the full experience.
54:13 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really need to see maybe another scene of X-rays.
54:19 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_04]: there's no doubt there's no there's no there I'll tell you one thing there's no doubt that this movie is dull at times and at the same time it could be one of the best movies ever made.
54:32 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel the same way with like, sorcerer, I feel the same way at times with not really the Godfather, but I can't understand why my son is not interested in the Godfather.
54:41 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_04]: He's just not going to be along for the ride.
54:43 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I would say the same thing about Star Wars.
54:46 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
54:47 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Cashewene has a lot of sand.
54:49 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I get it.
54:50 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_01]: If there was an x-ray scene where there was a robot anywhere in the background, it's 100% better.
54:57 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Robots go a long way in.
54:59 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so I was watching it pretty I actually I think the stuff and I ran is amazing The shot selection Um, I did I felt differently the second time I watched it.
55:12 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I did not feel the same way about the doctor you know all of the stuff in the lab You know all of all of the spinal tap stuff the second time I watched it.
55:21 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I just felt like you don't need any of that Yeah, yeah, I thought that the I the the there are some really
55:28 --> 55:51 [SPEAKER_01]: great visuals that he chooses and I'm glad I was kind of stopped in on a lot of those like just like fireplace the way that the fireplace will be it kind of in the background but at how bright it is compared to everything else without being like over the top like your eye is go to the fire and like I think that's really cool and like the the when he's standing went on side of the backspon side of standing
55:51 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, facing that statue, I think that's like that's just an amazing scene where the dogs are like going after each other in the back.
55:57 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_04]: The dogs barking, like why don't why am I freaked out by these dogs?
56:00 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's in these dogs are freaking me out, you know.
56:03 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think those, and again, and I think he, he inserts moments of tension.
56:08 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the beauty of filmmaking when people know what kind of is going to happen.
56:14 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But they don't know when it's going to happen and to what extent.
56:17 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can imagine that in 1973,
56:20 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_01]: there is so much anticipation.
56:23 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So anytime something sort of creeps you out, it's even more so, right?
56:27 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a magic trick, and I think that's why I feel making it all offensive.
56:30 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and you have to keep in mind, this is definitely the first exercise of movie.
56:38 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: At least probably in America, right?
56:39 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if there was any other exorcism movies.
56:42 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_04]: If I tell you the Italians didn't do something weird and gross, they were doing stuff in the back alleys, yeah.
56:48 --> 56:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, look, every scene that the priests were in, like if there was a priest in the room, it felt very well considered.
56:56 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It felt like the person who made this movie knows how priests talk.
57:01 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_04]: They know that this is as much of bureaucracy, they know that some priests go to Harvard.
57:07 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_04]: They know all of that world that I've been able to see in my professional career that you don't see represented in the movies.
57:16 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_04]: The priestly culture around Washington, D.C., feels an expert observer has observed this and put it on screen for me.
57:30 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_04]: this main priest that you're following around who's feels like he's losing his faith.
57:34 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a no name actor.
57:36 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_04]: You just have a lot of really well-known actors who wanted that job.
57:40 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_04]: They wanted the job and Freakens like, no, I don't I don't want this to go to Al Pacino.
57:47 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to become an Al Pacino movie or a Marlon Brando movie if I give it to one of those actors.
57:54 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to do something different.
57:56 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_04]: And so to choose, like, what a flex for Freaking to be like, yeah, I know that Marlon Brando wants this.
58:03 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that Paul Newman wants this, but I'm gonna choose this other guy, because I want, because I'm trying to do something different with this movie.
58:12 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_04]: and to pull it off, and to make it one of the biggest blockbusters of all time, and to make it sort of maybe the most celebrated horror film of all time, it feels like you've enacted something miraculous, and so I appreciate it on that level too.
58:30 --> 58:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I do think that there is an importance of having these doctor scenes, and at least in the sense of you're in a world where like, it's not obvious that you're going to get
58:41 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_01]: The next system, we're, you know, science is probably, you know, at that time, like the same way that we feel maybe about AI, like, sure, like science in the 70s probably feels like, like, oh, we've got an explanation for everything and, and so, and especially if the concept of psychology is becoming, you know, like more on, you know, well known and well received, there's a way to sort of explain a way, and that's the kind of, the essence
59:10 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_01]: There is, you're going to almost explain away anything, and yeah, I want the priest says, you want an exorcism.
59:19 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_04]: First thing we need is a time machine to get you back to the 1600s.
59:21 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
59:23 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
59:24 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So you need someone like that, you see even even even within the faith, right?
59:31 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, I mean, come on, we're not.
59:32 --> 59:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's, this is, there's a certain amount of,
59:38 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_01]: in anything, the more jaded you become about it, right?
59:41 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, don't get well.
59:43 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's also kind of my, this is kind of my problem.
59:47 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know how, like any time that you're an expert in something, it's hard for you to enjoy a movie about that thing.
59:58 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So because of my professional work,
01:00:01 --> 01:00:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I just know a lot about exorcism and how the mythology develops in the ancient world and the practices throughout the, you know, Jewish culture, and now a little bit less about the medieval sort of practice of exorcism, but I know more than most people.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And so whenever you're an expert in something and you see a portrayed in pop culture, you kind of roll your eyes a little bit.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I never rolled my eyes once during the exorcist.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: it was never sort of like, like for instance, in the movie we're covering today in the late night with the devil, you know, they say, okay, the demon's name is a Brexit, which where you get the term abricadabra, I'm thinking, nope, comes from a nostic deity, and abricadabra is aromack, and that means I speak as I create, and so it's entirely different, etymology, and so I, you know, that takes me out of it a little bit.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not how most people are going to experience that, but I experience that.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I read that as a mistake and effort to entertain.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't read that as a mistake on the movie.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It could be, but when I'm hearing that, and I'm like, and the guy's name is Christu, and I'm like, yeah, and you're doing internet research.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, I'm not the person that these films are created for because they're, they're trying to entertain.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_04]: They're not trying to, you know, connect me to my professional discipline.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_04]: But as I'm watching the exercise, I'm fascinated.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I don't care if, I don't care if I know more than the filmmaker in this case, because this storyteller is a magician.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is a master storyteller telling me a story that I thought I knew, but I'm just really impressed that this is as good as advertised, it almost feels like the exercises is an entirely different genre than late night with the devil.
01:01:52 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: These things are both horror, but they do not feel like the same genre.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_01]: put that up against, you know, other boxing movies and you'll probably have a different, you know, you'll have maybe some bones and some elements that are taken from it.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But like in this particular case, this, I mean, late night with the devil is not trying to reset a genre.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I was very pleased to go into 70's television.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I was glad to go there.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed bringing in the element of the Bohemian Grove type idea.
01:02:39 --> 01:02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And because I grew up with that's incredible and real people and Ripley's believe it or not hosted by Jack Palance, who was probably the creepiest part of the whole show.
01:02:50 --> 01:03:02 [SPEAKER_01]: seeing something that kind of was putting those types of shows on notice or and saying, well, you know, we never, nothing, nothing like this ever happened, but that was why we were watching.
01:03:02 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So almost in a way that you're watching, like the people in watching the exercise in 1973 are kind of being lulled into waiting to see the thing that they've been waiting for, kind of like, you know, all
01:03:16 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_01]: that's incredible in real people and those types of shows we're doing was giving you the prologue because there was no payoff it was just giving you tension that they couldn't provide a you know a punch line for because it wasn't real and so the idea that this does that but then also it becomes real I found that to be to me that was much more entertaining and be like yeah this is kind of like yeah if you start messing with this world that you think you can
01:03:45 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: look at the exercise where you've got like doctors trying to explain away the supernatural kind of the same kind of thing going on here it's like oh well you're just exploiting it because you don't see any real risk and okay you go to the grove and you you say you're going to give up your wife's soul or this or that for fames like but what if you do but what if you do and and what if it's real
01:04:06 --> 01:04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you get is like, yeah, if you sort of trivialize and sensationalize these very bigger than you type concepts, you know, it can work on a metaphorical level beyond just the idea of, you know, Satanic possession, but just anytime you sort of become hyperfocus into one in one area and you're willing to give up certain levels of maybe your own morality for that, yeah, be careful with what you play with.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Steve is this movie Better Worcester on part of the Ron Howard movie.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great, this one is really bothering me because I'd have Ron Howard ever done a horror movie.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I'd have maybe, I mean, after hours.
01:04:54 --> 01:05:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder, I mean, look after hours is not a horror movie, but kind of is a horror movie.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like New York City that the randomness of New York City is kind of well after hours of score sazy Oh, you're right.
01:05:12 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I never mind Got that Well, I know let's keep that in because I was thinking what was I thinking I was thinking of a nice shift man Yeah, it's different it's a horror movie
01:05:33 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm mixed because I think when it comes to maybe some of the performances and the directorial choice is especially sort of behind the scene stuff, I would say that that is Howard minus like four.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of like delivering sort of a kind of punchy, shlaki, but still fully and grossing sort of just
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_01]: possession horror flick.
01:06:02 --> 01:06:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's kind of a Howard plus one.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's an it's an odd one for me in that way.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do a quick search of Howard's.
01:06:11 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of him doing anything horror.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but has he done any thing like media critique?
01:06:17 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Because if we can't find a horror analog, maybe we could find a media critique analog
01:06:30 --> 01:06:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, that that is interesting because Ed TV.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:37 [SPEAKER_04]: You're kind of, yeah, that's interesting.
01:06:38 --> 01:06:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I was thinking, Frost Nixon is interesting because it's about the same time period.
01:06:45 --> 01:06:50 [SPEAKER_04]: There is sort of something that's well observed about a particular media personality.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:52 [SPEAKER_04]: There is something about ratings.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:59 [SPEAKER_04]: There's something about getting a little bit dirty
01:07:00 --> 01:07:24 [SPEAKER_04]: uh... you know get your project off the ground uh... love me some for us nixon never seen a fantastic movie oh you've never seen it well to be a we can't cover it on this podcast art to be a we can't cover it on our podcast that's named for runhower another one thing that is for both yeah i'm gonna say how are minus four on this one
01:07:26 --> 01:07:31 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm going to say Howard minus two, because I, there were times in this movie that I enjoyed the ride.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it was just the one actor just, I think we came out pretty similar, right?
01:07:40 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I said, if you take the performance and some of the directorial choices, like I said, behind the scenes, which I didn't love as much, especially if you just get rid of the found footage concept and just have that sort of happening in the, you know, just let it happen.
01:07:54 --> 01:08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is a Howard minus four, and then, but I also think that there's elements of the horror and everything that happens that I don't have a comp, and I don't, so it's almost like I have to give it better than because, you know, and this isn't a movie that I felt especially horrified by.
01:08:13 --> 01:08:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I'm, like, I know it's a horror movie, but I wasn't, I don't find it scary.
01:08:19 --> 01:08:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And but not like that's a bad thing, you know what I mean like there's some like I think the exercise is probably because like you said because of the lulls because of the the it's real life actually you know and you you you going to the doctors as much as that is kind of put you in a spot what's like this feels real life.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And then, I guess that's the other thing about there.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:46 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels like, okay, well, if this was your child, right?
01:08:47 --> 01:08:51 [SPEAKER_04]: What would you have to go through before you actually beg a priest to do an exorcist?
01:08:51 --> 01:08:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, right?
01:08:52 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I go to the doctor's more than once.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think that it is effective in that regard, right?
01:08:59 --> 01:09:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but I don't feel it because you know that there was never a show called the night-offs, because you know that.
01:09:06 --> 01:09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You know it's not found for it, right?
01:09:07 --> 01:09:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay, that's fine.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's that's an important.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do feel like you're already know that you're in a fictional situation by design.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay too, but so that's why I don't feel like I feel like the horror part of it might be lacking a little bit.
01:09:26 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that that's a problem.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like it's because I think horror can be
01:09:31 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: just as entertaining if you're not like scared if you're just sort of like, oh, here comes the horror.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
01:09:37 --> 01:09:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So connecting us to the wider newlywed season, just calling out the night owls.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:49 [SPEAKER_04]: uh we're going to eventually watch a movie called The Night Hawks.
01:09:50 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's all connected, baby.
01:09:52 --> 01:09:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and of course, you know, Billy D. presents his a man possessed.
01:09:57 --> 01:10:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if only we could all be possessed by Billy D. Thank you for being my number one fan.
01:11:08 --> 01:11:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And a cocoon of horror.