John, David, and Anthony offer first takes on "The Squire."
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00:19 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey folks, today John and David from the Warhammer's join me to review their instant reactions.
00:26 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_02]: to episode 3 of 977 Kingdoms.
00:29 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Steve missed tonight because he's a way in San Francisco at the punchline.
00:34 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_02]: However, Steve and I are planning to do a draft for our next season of properly Howard Movie Review, if you have a movie that you would like to hear us review, you can send movie ideas to U-Banks, E-U-B-A-N-K-S at thelowerhounds.com.
00:55 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's uBanks.com, and your film might be picked for Stephen I to review.
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01:12 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Without further ado, here is John and David.
01:16 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: the plot thickens what do you think about the i mean kudos to david you uh you saw the the egg reveal coming a long way off mm-hmm they didn't do very they didn't do a lot of work to hide it they didn't do a lot of work to hide it but uh Sarah uh who's sort of not into west rosy lore at all she did not see a comment
01:41 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_02]: at least a certain amount of the fan base is going to be.
01:44 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I think wise, wise to the, the little, I think the hand, right?
01:49 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing to me was that they revealed it so soon.
01:54 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was going to be something that was going to play out for a lot more of the season.
02:02 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that they were gonna, I thought they were, would reveal it sooner because, you know, you, you clocked it, probably the first, for 10 minutes as a episode one, and I thought, how long are they gonna be able to hold this mystery box closed?
02:19 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And that start to get annoying, but I think, I think folks, especially folks who were tuning in to Game of Thrones property the first time, it was probably a pretty good pace.
02:32 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not a mystery box show so fine.
02:34 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like don't yeah don't don't overdo it.
02:37 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that way.
02:38 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, John, you were saying I was just going to say I would go so far as to say that.
02:42 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_03]: ex-identity is in the premise, not, you know, the spotlight really, right?
02:46 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_03]: This is, you know, misfit pairing of a small folk night, a very dumb small folk fight with a prince, with a prince who is in over his head.
03:01 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_03]: They're both in over their heads in different ways, right?
03:04 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why it's fun to watch.
03:06 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: As long as he's not the prince who is promised, I think we'll be fine.
03:09 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_02]: not the prince that he was promised, but we did get, and this is not part of the book content, but we did get something of Woods Witch with a prophecy indeed.
03:24 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was kind of my jaw kind of
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I was a little disappointed.
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Was that a show only thing, not a book thing?
03:43 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a show only thing.
03:44 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And the wood's which says, you will be king and you will die by fire and the worms will eat you.
03:53 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And all who knew you will rejoice or something like that.
03:57 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Which I found a little shocking being not a book reader
04:03 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: the premise that I was building in my head was, okay, eggs gonna be, you know, he's traveled among the people.
04:09 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:11 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_01]: He's lived this rich and whole life, and so he's not, you know, behind the walls and living this opulent lifestyle with no connection to the small folk.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he would make a wise ruler.
04:22 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, maybe it's one of those things where he goes mad or something like that.
04:25 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it does feel like how could, now that you know that he's a Targaryen for sure,
04:33 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: How could you not give credence to this little prophecy in the same episode?
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
04:39 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was kind of amazed that they went this direction.
04:45 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't know, I'm still processing this.
04:49 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little disappointed and kind of shocked.
04:54 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of shocked.
04:55 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Joan, are you shocked?
04:56 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't love that scene either.
05:01 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_03]: concerned about the scene with the game master two.
05:04 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_03]: That was another show edition of why don't you just throw a, you know, throw this, what are we doing?
05:11 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The joust, was he throwing a joust?
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not throwing him who to challenge.
05:16 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
05:17 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It's being thrown to him.
05:20 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:20 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the idea here is, and you know, you almost wonder like, well, why even tell him?
05:25 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he's exactly, he thought it would be bad writing, right?
05:31 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I kind of figured it out by the end though because they're talking about who they're going to challenge and they didn't make that clear enough early enough, but a leader I think the way that they're setting up the tourney in the show is you have to call out somebody to challenge and nobody's going to call out dunk.
05:46 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're going to call out a shield right and with the Game Master's basically saying is make sure you tap that guy's shield.
05:55 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: It'll go your way, wink, wink.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
05:58 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that to me like that that definitely helps.
06:03 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It helps to know that with an altristic motive that this will help my local Lord here because he's fallen on hard times.
06:12 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So everyone gets what they want.
06:13 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
06:14 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_02]: You definitely don't want to lose your first round because you'll lose everything.
06:19 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We definitely want to bet on, uh, bet against this guy,
06:25 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: and the Lord's kind of indebted and he needs to win fall.
06:30 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So this helps everyone with the exception of, you know, your honor, basically.
06:37 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have to know that you entered the list and you didn't win rightfully.
06:43 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You're first going around.
06:45 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and you know what, it's not
06:48 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm of the mind that the in dunk is lying about being dubbed and so I feel like it's it's not beyond the pale for this particular character to choose a well placed white lie.
07:03 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're creating the environment for that, not all nights or honorable people.
07:12 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So that, oh, the shock, he didn't aim for the horse, you know, it's like, yeah, no, dude, these guys are, are not good people.
07:21 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So John, John, I don't know if you know this, but back, first season, how's
07:32 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And there was a horse that was targeted in the horse dice, right?
07:37 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I brought on a professional, uh, a professional.
07:42 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's someone who actually jouts, someone who's like, he's a medievalist.
07:46 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_02]: He studies ancient warfare, but he like goes out and he actually, you know, does these, these, these little tournaments, these, these, these, uh,
08:01 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, yeah, I didn't know.
08:02 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So I said, hey, historically speaking, is it like against the rules to go after the horse?
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, it depends on where you are.
08:12 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone thinks it's cheating, except for the Italians.
08:18 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
08:27 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I see where they're going, you know.
08:30 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, never cross a sillian when there's a death in a different way.
08:33 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, right.
08:35 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Other than that little bit with the wood's witch and the maybe the subterfuge about the, I felt like this is a very strong episode.
08:47 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this episode finally heats up.
08:49 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_02]: How, what was your general sense of it?
08:52 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I think actually Steve will like this episode a lot because this episode more than the first you really have that Dunkin egg chemistry going.
09:00 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Even even in just watching the joust, right?
09:05 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_03]: They were just, you know, yelling cheering together.
09:08 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_03]: The talks on the hill.
09:10 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The talk, you know, it's interesting because each of these episodes has started with a shocking moment
09:21 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_03]: early because now I'm expecting it every time it was a little disappointed to not get warm.
09:27 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh, uh-huh, but I think it was spread out the steeper it out the logs a little bit, you know?
09:32 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Steed will be happy.
09:33 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, pooping.
09:33 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that equined or you did pooping in this thing, but that's right.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_02]: What was your, what was your sense?
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like this is a pretty strong episode.
09:41 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It may be stronger than the other two with a couple reservations, but what, what did you both feel about this episode?
09:49 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was vomiting all for the, you know, five minutes before we got on the podcast here, so I'm feeling a little.
09:55 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and you forgot that we were just doing the instant take, not the main body.
09:58 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
09:59 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I realized that, I was, I was completely fine.
10:01 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, if you were a better renowned.
10:05 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I don't like to eat soap beef.
10:10 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to have that accent on again.
10:12 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_03]: That's not what we could have.
10:15 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I watched the episode two in front of this one.
10:20 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I really wish these weren't nine and nine p.m.
10:22 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, that's another story.
10:23 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
10:26 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_01]: watching on the second watch, I was marveling at the dialogue and the writing.
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, this show was really good.
10:33 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a witty, it's punchy.
10:35 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of stuff being embedded and encoded in the dialogue.
10:42 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: This one had a lot less of that stuff going on, but I think it was
10:47 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: it was again another setup but it also moved the story along really well so I don't know there was less richness to it because they weren't world-building as much as maybe and we were just sort of moving into the story and I guess you know then of course we have the the intag the principal
11:14 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So we got to have a good villain to hate.
11:17 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, last episode, just all the different stuff with the king or the prince, I'm sorry, and the king's guard, and all of that was just so good.
11:27 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe, I'm not going to say that I was disappointed, but I was,
11:32 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: looking for that richness in the text.
11:36 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'd come off the episode episode two, like almost in front of this one, you were well.
11:44 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I see.
11:44 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I was.
11:45 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was good.
11:46 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It was funny.
11:47 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a good time.
11:49 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And lots of little things.
11:51 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm waiting to see the reveal of the shield.
11:54 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I feel like at the end of this episode, the stakes finally matter.
11:59 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Because
12:02 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, if you don't get to be a knight, then fine, go be the biggest farmer in your village.
12:09 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Your life will probably be just fine.
12:12 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's sort of like, okay, now you're into it.
12:14 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Now you got yourself into a little bit of a pickle and
12:19 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: The plot is thicker than before, I feel like.
12:24 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, go ahead, David.
12:26 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I was going to say they did a nice job of setting up with that dragon puppetry as well.
12:31 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So, we're familiar with the puppet theater folks, and then to have that reveal when Bright Flame shows up, we're like, oh, like, you know, just at the worst moment as well.
12:44 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So, they've done a really nice job of
12:46 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: the laying track and and I think you're ready to do this is the episode where the you know we're we're really starting to get delivery on what they've been setting up.
12:55 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
12:55 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: What about you, John?
12:56 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I just thought that you know I did think that episode two is turning that episode three.
13:00 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_03]: That could be because I spent four hours watching the Lord of the Rings in return of the King and Theaters today.
13:04 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I did, I went to go see a, like, a, a, a, a, a, re-screening and other than Peter Jackson Rambling for 20 minutes at the beginning and I mean Ram like like they did not edit this at all.
13:17 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He had no script.
13:18 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_03]: He's just like, and then I work with this guy for a while.
13:20 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And he was a really good guy.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was, it was like that.
13:23 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, other than that, obviously amazing experience.
13:26 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I thought this episode was strong, but the strongest part of the episode for me was actually what I thought captured the tonal essence of the show, the best, which was Alice and her fingers.
13:41 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this whole, you know, ridiculous, Lionel story, this drinking song that Egg is just trying to grasp at some kind of deeper meaning for and dunk just doesn't have the wisdom to give him.
13:57 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_03]: He's, the egg is just clawing, not trying to grasp, but straws for something.
14:03 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe there is something there, maybe there is it.
14:05 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_03]: But at the end, you feel like they actually did kind of get somewhere together,
14:09 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that kind of stumbling toward meaning is the core of the show.
14:15 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually makes me think of a very Monty Python-esque and the whole, you know, like a Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they're they're just looking for meaning in the
14:35 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and in these aristocrats on their horses and stuff like that, and then like, where's the meaning?
14:41 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the philosophy?
14:42 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the social justice of it all?
14:46 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And there is that great egg is smart.
14:49 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like really smart.
14:51 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: and don't is not I guess really smart and maybe too smart for his own good, you know, he's he's he's thinking a couple of little deeper than the little dunk and the contrast is great and it just turns out like sometimes depending on the genre of the song.
15:10 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's not meant to be appreciated at a deeper level.
15:15 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
15:18 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess, but I'm always just punctured.
15:20 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And you just say, you know.
15:24 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I, um,
15:25 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait for the next week, like I was saying to Steve, I feel like this show is going to be much more satisfying as a binge watch.
15:35 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And what do we do in seven or eight?
15:36 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I forget six.
15:38 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, so we're halfway.
15:40 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We're halfway.
15:41 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness.
15:42 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So I do think, for folks who are just clicking next and they're watching the whole thing in one shot, it's just gonna feel like to get a flow.
15:52 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna feel like a movie.
15:53 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_03]: it will be shorter than the movie I watched today.
15:56 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It really will be.
16:00 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it the extended?
16:01 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes it was.
16:02 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I get dizzy in all of those sweeping helicopter shots that Jackson likes to use.
16:11 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I do think that I mean I'm grateful because we're podcasting about this.
16:17 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I have a little breather going between episodes.
16:20 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I do think that for folks who are going to wait till the end and then binge watch the entire thing.
16:25 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that they're going to be worried about pacing issues or, you know, that they're not going to worry about like, is every episode going to begin with something gross, you know, they're just going to keep watching and they're going to see the whole story in its entirety and they're just going to have a fundamentally different experience.
16:45 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_02]: than sort of the week by week episodic, which I think for most shows is better.
16:50 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_02]: You definitely, like for instance, you know, severance, I think.
16:55 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_02]: There's every episode was a meal, right?
16:58 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:58 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like every episode of this just feels like, I was just getting into the story again.
17:05 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Now I have to wait a week, you know, put on the brakes.
17:08 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So.
17:09 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And news out of Westeros sounds like,
17:13 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: They are going to be turning these out on an annual basis.
17:18 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the news was that they're, are they wrapping on season two already?
17:23 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Or they're doing it right now.
17:24 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing it right now.
17:26 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:26 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have another episode.
17:28 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, another season next year, which is lovely.
17:32 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
17:33 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what?
17:33 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Three or four year wait.
17:36 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: That's definitely a positive that we can take from this.
17:38 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the show is,
17:41 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: is bite size enough that we don't have to wait two or three years for the next season and that's it.
17:49 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the streamers are starting to figure out this rhythm that you can have prestige, food in sort of a pulp wrapper, right?
17:59 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You can you can turn this stuff out at a reasonable pace.
18:05 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else about this episode for sort of our knee jerk reactions or shall we save it for tomorrow?
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready for more jousting.
18:16 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
18:17 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to save it.
18:17 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is an episode I really have to rewatch, especially, you know, I have to get into all the dialogues surrounding the buttholes.
18:24 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_03]: But, but in honestly, you know, in my god, I can't even talk right now.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_03]: These episodes are on too late, everybody.
18:30 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm an old man.
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't do this.
18:34 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But no, I just really want to sink into the dialogue, especially the songs that are being sung, eggs, things a couple of songs of this that are really, yeah, that's what the song was great, that's really funny.
18:45 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I just, I need to get in deeper to some of this stuff, not just deep, like Alice's, but I want to get in deep into the meaning.
18:55 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_02]: No one's quite adept at deepness as Alice is.
19:00 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, she's got reduced birth, so it's a little easier.
19:04 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_02]: on that note
20:16 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And a cocoon of horror.