Galadriel chafes under Elrond’s command, Isildur confronts a feisty woman and a slimy surprise, the Stranger finds a goat-herder, and Nori and Poppy find — more Harfoots? Sara and Marilyn compare rituals of hospitality —or not — and greeting. They also explore a few cultural dining practices.
Where the Stars Are Strange - S02E02 - Rings & Rituals
In episode two, Sara and Marilyn find rituals of remembrance, reconstitution, repair, and dramatic revelation. They also wish that Elrond would listen to Círdan's humble wisdom.
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00:12 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome back to Rings and Rituals Season 2, where today we are examining Eldest, Episode 4 of Season 2 of the Pain in the Case series Rings of Power, in preparation for the introduction of Season 3 in November.
00:27 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Marilyn, the librarian of Rivendell, and I'm Sarah, shield made in a room hunt.
00:32 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And whether you've listened to all of our episodes from Season 1, or this is the first time you've ever heard of this, we're delighted you're here.
00:39 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be following our pattern from season 1 by reviewing what we mean by ritual, and then applying those concepts to the different examples of ritual that we find in the series.
00:48 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_01]: From this, we'll discuss how pain and decay depicted the cultures that they were adapting for their series.
00:54 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Do get in touch with us, we're getting some great feedback in this season and we'd love to see more.
00:59 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You can email us at rings and rituals at TheLoreHounds.com or you can join our rings and rituals channel on TheLoreHounds Discord, we'll include all that information in the show notes.
01:11 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to say that we are a proud affiliate of TheLoreHounds Barovian broadcasting network.
01:17 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_01]: We can invite all sorts of interesting podcasts on TV, films, books, video games and other stories.
01:23 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Check us out!
01:24 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, I also want to say, Sarah, we're halfway through the season.
01:28 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
01:29 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, it seems to be gathering pace the season.
01:34 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like it started slow, but now it's sort of picking up and plenty of things to come in the second half.
01:43 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
01:45 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, oh, yes.
01:46 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with you.
01:46 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The first couple of episodes I was thinking,
01:50 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, kind of not so good.
01:51 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And then boom, things are going to go off and suddenly we have multiple Mitchell's of remembrance and not kinds of things.
01:59 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think they're definitely picking up the pace.
02:01 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
02:03 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking forward to doing the rest of the episodes with you.
02:05 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
02:07 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: As I'm I.
02:08 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So as we said, we'll be identifying any rituals that we see in the episode and we'll be discussing them from the perspective of the intention, the outcome, the musical background, and what the ritual tells us about the culture it's depicting.
02:21 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And we might come up with some other discussion points along the way.
02:24 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You just never know, D. Never know.
02:27 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But before that, we're going to have a quick break, and when we come back, we'll bring you the meat or the tofu for our vegan or vegetarian listeners without the quail sauce.
02:36 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And we promise there will be no slime slugs involved.
02:39 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Ew!
02:40 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
02:40 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There will be, there will be, but we're not going to put them on the menu in front of you.
02:45 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh good.
02:56 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
02:57 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: While our main focus is on ritual, to aid our listeners' memories, we'll begin each section with the synopsis of events.
03:04 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Please note, we are doing full-on spoilers from both seasons throughout these episodes.
03:10 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that isn't what you want, then go and binge the entirety of Season 1 and 2, and then come back and join us.
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, were you going to start it?
03:17 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to.
03:19 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:20 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So at the very beginning of the episode, Galadriel chafes under El Ron's leadership, but this was as the hiking wished it.
03:27 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They come to a bridge which has been destroyed probably by Sauron.
03:31 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Worned by her ring, Galadriel states, southern alternative goes through the hills of Turnorthad, which holds Barrow's filled with evil.
03:40 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But El Ron refuses to take any council that comes from her ring.
03:45 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a stranger, sorry.
03:47 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's said, hump.
03:48 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_00]: No, hump, hump indeed, yeah.
03:51 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll obviously, you know, we'll have to talk about El Rondon is attitude to the ring again, because it doesn't seem to be easing off.
04:00 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, somewhere east of that, the stranger, seeking Nory and Poppy, finds a goat instead, and follows it to the homestead of a rotting girl.
04:10 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry Bob.
04:12 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And follows it to the homestead of a rather eccentric goat farmer.
04:16 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The stranger takes out his star map, which is whisked away by a wind and then impaled on the sharp branch of a tree.
04:22 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Not wishing to donate one of its branches for again, the tree instead encases the stranger inside its trunk.
04:30 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
04:31 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Where have you seen that before?
04:32 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm indeed.
04:34 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned.
04:37 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: In fleeing from riders on horseback, nobody and Poppy find a hardfoot in an unexpected place.
04:43 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Merrimack takes them to meet the gun, the leader of their community.
04:48 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_01]: However, having no desire to consort with friends of wizards, the gun to orders them to be tied up.
04:55 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Huh, so much for store rituals and hospitality?
04:57 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you that this hospitality is not really an evidence, is it?
05:03 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it feels very different to Nori and her people, but apparently having a connection with wizards is not a good recommendation to present to the gun.
05:15 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so it would seem, wouldn't it?
05:18 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:18 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even thinking back to the Shire, well, obviously in the future, Hobbit Hospitality is famous.
05:25 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We think of how Bilbo opens the door and welcomes in the wizard and feeds him in Lord of the Rings.
05:32 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But even before that in the Hobbit,
05:35 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He winds up with 13 doors on a wizard in his house, so he wasn't expecting fatigue, and he welcomes in Yemen if feeds him, and I mean, yeah.
05:44 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, following what we would think of as general rules of hospitality, but here for whatever reason, this community have very different ideas about what they do and strangers turn up at the door.
06:00 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's quite different from what little I know about desert communities and their hospitality.
06:07 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
06:07 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you are known to be an enemy, if you turn up,
06:12 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: at a place they are obligated by hospitality, at least in the nomadic cultures, to bring you in, to give you water to wash your feet, to feed you, and to house you over the night.
06:23 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Now what happens next day, that is dependent upon many things, but it would be unthinkable in most desert nomadic communities, to treat any
06:33 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Incommer the way that the gun is treating Nordian Poppy, but she has her reasons, she has her reasons and no doubt we will find out about them in a little while.
06:45 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
06:47 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So, back to what's going on in the episode, Brank, a leader of the Gaudrim, explains to the dark wizard that the halflings have evaded them, and the issta is making his way north towards the Hermit.
07:00 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_00]: In that northern location, the Hermit releases the stranger from the clutch of old man Ironwood, and announces that his name is...
07:09 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Tom Bonbadil.
07:11 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He seems to be very familiar with certain parts of the Lord of the Rings, but he also offers the usual rituals of hospitality, with little formality, a warm bath, food, and such explanations as he's able to give, so this is a real contrast.
07:26 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Indeed it is.
07:28 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We get shelter, a place but the heart, the bath of food, and sometimes even some information.
07:35 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm wondering if maybe it's because you're eldest, you've been present before the stars in the first train drop, but you just don't have a whole lot of patience with any more formal rich, you'll behave yourself.
07:45 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
07:46 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
07:47 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Get down to the basics.
07:48 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Possibly that's true.
07:50 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And what did you think of the moment where the stranger is released from old man Ironwood, and of course the obvious parallel with the Lord of the Rings?
08:00 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Mmm, you know, sometimes the series really loves to lean into Lord of the Rings, and I don't know if they're trying to reassure newcomers, I see, see, we know what's happened in the past, and maybe we even know it too.
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_01]: very unsettling ting.
08:24 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm subtle.
08:27 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm being curious, remember, we don't break on things in this in this podcast, so.
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, absolutely not.
08:33 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we can comment when something feels a little bit wedged in and this does.
08:41 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good way of putting it.
08:42 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, old man will, excuse me, Ironwood, for example.
08:46 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:48 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact I, I had forgotten initially that it wasn't a willow tree until I was reviewing notes and said, oh, oh, no, it's an Ironwood because it didn't look like a willow, but well, that makes sense.
08:59 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think willows would grow in that kind of terrain.
09:02 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Looks exactly, not even for Tom Bombardell.
09:04 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Not even for Tom Bombardell.
09:06 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the background perhaps we're supposed to see this as a sign of what the dark wizard has done to this place.
09:15 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember if it's now or a little bit later on in conversation, but Tom says that the wizard has he had heard from afar that this place, which was once lush and green and growing, has become blasted and so he's come out to see what's going on here.
09:36 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So, all this stuff going on, yeah, I can see why time might be a little, if not brusk, then, um, efficient show, you say.
09:45 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_00]: If efficient is a good way of putting it, yes.
09:47 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: In you come, here's some food, here's some water, that's about it, really.
09:55 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So Tom goes on to tell the stranger.
09:59 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: A wizard's staff is like a name.
10:02 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It's yours to wield if you are ready if you can prove yourself worthy of it.
10:08 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And Tom tells the stranger he is not ready yet.
10:12 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He also tells on the Dark Wizard has preceded him to the region by many years and that it is the Stranger's task to face both the Dark Wizard and the Dark Lord,
10:25 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Great way to be greeted after a long journey and you're trying to settle back after dinner and suddenly you find out, oh, and by the way, you have to kill the two biggest baddies in this region, if not the world.
10:37 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Apart from that, no problem at all, and by the way, you're not ready to wield a staff yet.
10:43 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks.
10:44 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the next step, are you going to tell me what I need to do?
10:49 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably not.
10:50 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably not, at least not in any kind of clear community
10:55 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's Tom Momadil.
10:57 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That's Tom Momadil.
10:59 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Being well, back with the elves, Elrond's party encounters the better downs and encounters the whites that have been awakened by Sauron.
11:10 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Prior to the attack, they chit some familiar verses.
11:13 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: They do.
11:15 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Elrond, the lore master, tells his company the whites can only be killed by the swords they have been buried with.
11:22 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a shame they didn't have a Tom Momadil with them, really.
11:26 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I wonder if they had sung to him, what he has suddenly disappeared from the stranger's bathroom and come, I think.
11:34 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, tell him, don't be too old.
11:37 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's right, right, exactly.
11:39 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe learning about this early experience, Tom decided, all right, you know, these, these,
11:46 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: less than whatever he is, types, really need some help to deal with.
11:51 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Although in the end, they really didn't need some help because they did manage to polish them off in the end.
11:56 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They did.
11:56 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They did.
11:57 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But what we do get in this scene is we get another ritual, a ritual incantation by the whites, prior to the battle, and of course they don't seem to have changed that ritual for several thousand years.
12:10 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but if you've already been dead for several thousand years, you know, change is not noticeable in your makeup anymore, perhaps?
12:17 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
12:18 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They look like their bodies have definitely decayed and so forth, but, you know, if it works, why fix it?
12:25 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: If it works by fixip but also I suppose whites being kind of undead I suppose for rituals to change cultures have to change right exactly and that can only happen when things are living and actually out in the world and living and this is not what's going on for the whites so I suppose we should expect ritual things like this ritual incantations to remain exactly the same
12:55 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you're right, and yet at the same time, you know, I picture them lying around in their barrels and, you know, this has gotten really boring.
13:06 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we maybe crawl into this one or at least different words.
13:12 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, ritual power and all that, if it works, why fix it, I guess so.
13:18 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that's what they landed on.
13:21 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think, I think this is the first time we've heard of ritual incantation.
13:27 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something that the L's use to my knowledge.
13:30 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
13:32 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: We're still dealing with how brand and then on that thought.
13:37 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So they certainly haven't been incanting anywhere.
13:41 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: um, definitely not a reflection of the harfoot type culture.
13:46 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
13:47 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know about the stores yet and the new and all are certainly not.
13:52 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: For all kinds of good reasons.
13:57 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I suppose this is an indication that we've come across something ancient and evil.
14:03 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
14:04 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And very, very different from possible anything that the elves have encountered before.
14:09 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_01]: They know about whites, but it's one thing to read about it in a tone of lore and another thing to be confronted with it and watch one of your comrades be killed.
14:18 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:21 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so a meanwhile, quite a bit further south, as a group from pelaguer searches for Theo, Arondia tells Isildor that Theo has escaped from worse situations before now.
14:33 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they discover a scene of recent slaughter.
14:36 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: the next morning, some of the folk are unwilling to continue to search, but estrid suggests that they look north where the forests are wilder.
14:43 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Arondea wonders why she made the suggestion, and shows Isil do the next morning the estrid inflicted a burn on herself to try to remove the mark of Adar, showing that she was with the wild men.
14:55 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Isildo thinks that she had been preparing either to betray him or possibly to hitch a ride back to Newman or with him, but their discussion is interrupted when Arondier finds more of the white petals that he saw the night before at the scene of slaughter.
15:09 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And very briefly, we see Theo imprisoned in branches atop a tree with some of the wild men and it is made clear
15:21 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, for the pin in that one, huh?
15:24 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
15:25 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens next is you'll do walks into a swamp pot, and along with that on dear, you almost winds up being dinner, but estrid manages to grab a, sorry Bob.
15:36 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: but estrid manages to grab a large branch even wearing manacles and pulls out not one of her friends, but a giant slime slug you.
15:45 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yummy.
15:46 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
15:47 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't dare manages to kill it and call it supper, which amuse is ill-dore.
15:51 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It would not have used me.
15:53 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I am very happy on occasions to be a vegetarian.
15:56 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be one of them.
15:57 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_01]: what you know, I laughed when this first happened because you're not expecting it.
16:03 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I do not expect elves to make jokes and a rondeur has barely ever seen him smile.
16:11 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, he's always missed a serious and no wonder with all the things he's been through, but that it was actually and done so deadpan as well.
16:20 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually really funny.
16:21 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, it was the delivery.
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that really made it for me.
16:26 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know some people were not amused in Queen Victoria was not among them in this instance, but I still think it was a good tension breaker at that point.
16:37 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
16:37 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, using comedy in direct contrast with terror or even tragedy is a long time used trope, and it's there for a reason.
16:52 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: because it, as you said, it breaks the tension and that is a good thing because tension will rise again and having a moment of humour gives you that breathing space so that when things get tense again you're ready to sort of go along that path with it.
17:09 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Just our Shakespeare, he did this all the time.
17:11 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Good point.
17:12 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Good point.
17:13 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm not sure.
17:16 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I do eat some flesh if you will.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't eat red meat.
17:21 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just not sure if I could have put some of that slug in my mouth.
17:26 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going with Neseno for a minute.
17:28 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a vegetarian, you have to think about it.
17:31 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I always get asked things like, oh, but what if you were stranded on a desert island or something?
17:39 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And the answer is, well, that's a survival situation in which point you eat whatever you can get your hands on, but I would still be super reluctant to eat slug.
17:50 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: yeah definitely or Beatles as we saw.
17:54 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes and you know the half of it seemed to prize those as well and snails.
18:01 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Well you know I've always had this notion that the reason why they sing the Beatles song when they're having to eat Beatles.
18:11 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really to give the Beatles something to dance to.
18:14 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's to take the mind off of what they just swallowed.
18:20 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cause, yeah.
18:24 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, and snails, I have eaten as gotta go in my little time.
18:30 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_01]: don't like the consistency very much, but you know, you put enough butter and garlic sauce on on anything and it's going to be put in a harder and garlic sauce on anything and you could just about choke it down.
18:42 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But what does it have to be snails?
18:44 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, interesting, cultural differences of this thing.
18:49 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
18:50 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of cultures where insects are just simply a part of the diet and it's nothing to eat them because there is also protein and you eat whatever you can get.
19:02 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Here, of course, in the west where we're a little bit softer and we have supermarkets around the corner all the time, eating insects would not generally be something that we would do.
19:15 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, there's a movement, you know, there'd be a movement in the states to encourage people to use cricket flour.
19:23 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:25 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And other such items to increase the intake of protein, but the same time, I think we in the states, about as much protein as we need to, and some of us probably more.
19:36 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_01]: In any case, we go back now to the stores.
19:41 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_01]: and the store's village elders who have decided to cast out Nori and poppy at sunrise.
19:47 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But when notice says that Sadduk Burroughs, their trailfinder would have done the same thing.
19:52 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The gun is astounded to recognize the name and takes Nori to show her some of the store's ancient history.
20:00 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They once had a member who left the desert, leading a large number of folk to find a place that he had dreamed of, called the Shuzat.
20:10 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: She wonders if Naudi and Poppy have come to lead the rest of the stores there, but Naudi tells her that they never found a home.
20:18 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_01]: They just kept wondering.
20:22 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
20:23 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Brunk, and another golden, arrived, demanding that they be given the harfots.
20:29 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The gun tells them that they're always stores there, but Brank tells them that the director will punish them if they defy him.
20:35 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, so what were you going to say?
20:37 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I was just, you know, kind of rumenating on this idea of the place he dreamed of called the Sizzat, which of course is the Shire.
20:50 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed it is, it's kind of a deep cut for folks if you've never read any of the histories of Middle-earth or so on.
20:57 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe it's safe, maybe it just in the appendix because that's all they had access to.
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all they had rights to.
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, mostly in that, yes, yes.
21:06 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Either that or it needed to have special, they needed to have special permission to use the term.
21:10 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is there, it is canon for whatever you think canon means to you.
21:15 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely was not something they made up.
21:17 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's put it that way.
21:21 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: so I see in this an interesting ritual of remembrance in this case it's more oral because you're telling your community's histories to each other and to encommers once you realize that they really aren't so different from you and in fact may even be you.
21:36 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah yeah and actually this sort of oral history that we've seen this amongst the half of us this is a tradition amongst them as well.
21:49 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And having written records, if I remember correctly, they were writing things in on the walls and showing images of things and so forth, but mostly this is an oral tradition.
22:01 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And as I say, I think it is a ritual tradition as well because you are making sure that your
22:15 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: so that they can understand where clearly what their future is might be.
22:18 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We know this for sure because we saw this in season one, of course, with the half-foot's actually having that ritual gathering around the fire where names were called out, where histories were recounted, and it was done very much as this is a thing that we do and we do it regularly.
22:37 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can only imagine that the stores must be very similar.
22:45 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The stores are us and so it makes perfect sense that telling the story and so forth is was part of the tradition from way back.
22:55 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if the stores were there before the dark wizard arrived when this place might have been more hospitable to survival.
23:06 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, without the loss of, you know, trees and shrubbery and growth and, you know, a more sire-like environment perhaps, which seems to indicate that they really are not abandoning people unlike the harfots, because if this is a place that you call home and then it becomes deeply inhospitable as it has, why would you not move on?
23:30 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: because you are rooted there.
23:32 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: This is your home land.
23:34 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, if they were right-tenorant like the half-hoods, they would have gone by now surely.
23:39 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is something that really strikes naughty certainly.
23:44 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Poppy is just happy to be among friends and you know, she's starting a little
23:54 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_01]: but Nori is one who thinks and reflects and so forth.
23:57 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think maybe she feels, well, maybe you folks here have it better, you know, dark wizard aside.
24:05 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: You have homes.
24:06 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You have settled communities in places and so forth.
24:09 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Nori says we never found a home.
24:14 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
24:16 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of hurts a little to hear us, it does.
24:22 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So, moving along, the elves honor their fallen warrior combat, and Galavia tells Elhron that she believes her ring is guiding her to victory.
24:34 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Elhron still thinks the cost of following that guide is too great.
24:39 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Galavia responds that the thought of Salhron ruling the world terrifies her more than any other cost of victory.
24:46 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You can see both sides here, come on you.
24:48 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we're starting, they're starting to talk to each other instead of baton.
24:54 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Elvron actually assures her that he will put you defeating Salvron before anything else.
25:02 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Even before her.
25:04 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Which to be fair, I think.
25:07 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if she said it specifically, but the implication was there.
25:12 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She said anything is better than a victory by salad on.
25:15 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So if that means me getting killed fine, and maybe this is setting us up for something that happens shortly after this episode.
25:24 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But the subject you will hear isn't that.
25:26 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we do have this one elf who was killed in the conflict with the whites.
25:33 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a quite a brief ritual, but of course, these are elves on the move, so they can't honor their comrades as fitly as they might.
25:42 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So they bury him in a mound away from the barrels and leave his sword upright stuck into the mound.
25:48 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this kind of a questionable thing to do to bury another body so close to the barrels with his own sword?
25:57 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose there wouldn't be a thought that he would be turned into some kind of barrow white.
26:04 --> 26:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for a start, he's an elf.
26:07 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So his fair will have gone to the horse of mandos.
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Good boy.
26:12 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
26:12 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Then that makes a lot of sense.
26:14 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for.
26:15 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_01]: help me clear that up.
26:16 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought, you know, Barrow's body's swords.
26:19 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, where have I heard this comment?
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It made me fart.
26:22 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but one hopes it would not happen to an elf because the fail would be gone by now.
26:28 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
26:29 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:29 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That makes a lot of sense.
26:30 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, writers of, um, video games and such, take note, please.
26:35 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Let us not have any.
26:37 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: health weights.
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: In your campaign.
26:41 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Indeed.
26:42 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I will continue with what is happening with the yummy swamp slug dinner.
26:49 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
26:50 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because after Estrid has helped them to escape, said swamp slug, Arondia sets the manical key down next to Estrid and walks away.
26:59 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Izildo comes and sets a free only to have her draw his sword and threaten him, saying that his people would never accept her.
27:06 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: They hear Arondia drawing his bow from a distance, but before this standoff can be resolved, they're all attacked by, dndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndndnd
27:16 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: two ends who are grieving the destruction of their wood are on dear managers to convince winter bloom of their deep sorrow for the destruction and express his hopeful forgiveness.
27:26 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Winter bloom says that forgiveness takes an age, but that peace is possible.
27:32 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Arondia sees just beyond them where Theo has been trapped with the wild man, all of them are released, but as Theo embraces Arondia, Isildo almost kisses Estrid, only to hear her betrothed, calling her name, oops, that could have been awkward.
27:49 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Theo, thanks, Arondia for keeping his promise to Bronwyn to watch over him.
27:52 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Arondia says he must go now to keep another promise, and asks Theo if he wants to come.
27:59 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Theo says he has his own promises to keep, and so Arondia bids him farewell, hailing Theo as the Lord of Pelagia.
28:08 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
28:11 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots to think about there, I think.
28:12 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It was something of a ritual moment.
28:15 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_01]: You're giving an honorific to somebody who certainly wouldn't claim it and has never been called such before.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:22 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it feels like a very formal farewell doesn't it from out on dear?
28:29 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is pretty much a stock-intreat anyway.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
28:33 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, Mr. Serious.
28:35 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he clearly set up Estrid with the whole key medical thing and walking away and all that.
28:43 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think he wanted to have Theo understand.
28:49 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_01]: exactly what the situation was and who he was dealing with.
28:52 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, as if there wasn't enough complication, along comes her form of fiancee.
28:58 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the actor plays this really well.
29:01 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see her trying to express joy, but there's more, oh my god, he's still alive, kind of feeling to me.
29:10 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, is it me or does she not seem entirely joyful?
29:16 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I know she's I think this had not been in her script if you will.
29:21 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:22 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And whether or not she was just using as ill-built as a ticket out of this horrible place and to be frank, I would have looked for a ticket out of this horrible place too.
29:33 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:33 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't have the brand on my neck,
29:38 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And so now we're back to David Laura Hound's lovely feedback from last week about how brands work, you know, and sometimes it's a distinguished one for another, but it's also a mark of your past.
29:51 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can not really get rid of.
29:55 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: No, not with not with any simple methods that might be available to someone such as Astrid.
30:01 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I don't blame Estrid, actually.
30:05 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear of, you know, latching on to Isildor and perhaps being taken all the way over to Numenor to somewhere that she would think of as being safe and definitely better and given everything she will have been through.
30:19 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I see her point of view.
30:23 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And it mirrors her earlier decision to submit to Adara.
30:29 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_01]: you do what you can't, you do what you need to do to survive.
30:32 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and again, you can't blame her for that.
30:36 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the alternative?
30:38 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly if you're a woman with no particular background or support or training or anything, within your own milieu and in the self-lens, you probably are doing all right, but those days are gone.
30:51 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and already seeing what was
31:00 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: in Palongia and learning that no, this isn't a busted well, this is actually a pipe that would bring water into your house.
31:08 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: She kind of likes that idea.
31:11 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to make her seem mercenary or, you know, strictly utilitarian and yet how could she possibly be much of anything else considering the history of her people, her recent history, who knows what
31:27 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, is yield what it looks like he might be a pretty good ticket, and let's be honest, he still is coming across as pretty naive.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
31:39 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he seems very young, doesn't he?
31:41 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know he's been through some things, but he hasn't been through the same life experiences that someone like Estrid has, and so they're going to respond to situations differently.
31:54 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I just don't blame her for her choices.
32:00 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and yet, she was the one that he told the story of his mother rescuing him and then drowning in the process.
32:09 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:10 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But he had never told to anybody else before.
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
32:13 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something about her that makes him feel that she would be someone he can tell these sorts of things to.
32:19 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And perhaps, in some ways, it's one traumatized person recognizes another traumatized person.
32:26 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely think there's something there.
32:28 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd definitely think there's something there.
32:30 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: No All right, so we'll be winding up this episode, but don't worry folks.
32:36 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a lot of feedback today So the final scenes Eleudon and his group discovered the army of works marching to Austin, Evel, and Know that the hiking must be warned before he sails for Maltor
32:53 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: One of their parties hit by a stray arrow and Galadriel is able to heal him with the power of her ring, but the Orcs have smelled the elves.
33:02 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Galadriel forces Elrond to take the ring and says she will distract the Orcs as long as possible.
33:08 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The others must escape to Warren Gilgala to that calibrimboar was never given his message, and Eurideon has been invaded.
33:17 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Camnier says that she sacrificed herself to save the rest of them,
33:22 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_01]: but Elrond insists that she sacrificed herself to save the ring.
33:27 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: After a brilliant display of fighting she is captured by Adara, who greets her in Elvish.
33:35 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: A fairly familiar greeting.
33:37 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I can say a ritual greeting.
33:41 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, definitely.
33:43 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Alan Silma, Luma, and Omentelbo.
33:46 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that does feel ritualistic, like this is a formal greeting, and the fact that he's using the elvish language, you know, very familiar pattern of words, is add our doing this to start or her, to throw her off, or to indicate to her that actually he's one of her kind.
34:10 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think in the first instance, startling was his intention.
34:16 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know except we've seen him with the whole thing about planting, you know, planting the seeds and so forth, but I just don't know how much of his remaining elvishness is present.
34:30 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps seeing Galatherial kind of pulls him back towards that a little bit.
34:36 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, I mean for us, because we've seen Adara now for quite a few episodes, I think it came obvious pretty quickly that he was meant to be one of those elves from the very beginning of Orcs, if you like, that they had, you know, the showrunners have gone with that silver really on publish silver really on explanation of how Orcs are produced or were produced back in the beginning.
35:03 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so him greeting her, um, using the elvish language is just kind of reinforces that for us, but for Galadriel, that's got to be a bit of a shock.
35:16 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Unquestionably, unquestionably.
35:18 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think, I think his intention is to start all her so that she's thrown off her stride.
35:26 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she can't continue on with what she was doing.
35:28 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's well and truly, um,
35:32 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: secured at this point or you know about to be so in a sense he doesn't have to use it to interrupt her continued fighting but it really does get to her and we can see the potential effects in in the next episode.
35:52 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, but that's it for this episode, and now we're moving into feedback because we got all kinds of feedback, which is great.
36:02 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so would you like to start us off with Ferelesa?
36:06 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I will, and Ferelesa who posted on the Rings and Rituals thread on the Lorehouse Discord channel says, some episode one podcast treasures, thank you Ferelesa.
36:17 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I loved the call out on Tolkien regarding the slime passage and that it reminded you of Guru Hans, slithering from millennia in the north after the Julius Caesar scene with Adara and the Orcs.
36:28 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And they go along to say, I also agreed with you and Sarah and thought that when Kirdan tried to drop the rings down the ocean of this episode one, that all more reached out and told him, don't give me your problems.
36:41 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Very parental there.
36:42 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm sorry kids.
36:44 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is your problem.
36:45 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not dealing with that It's all that is best you can.
36:49 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, thanks so much for early.
36:51 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's always fun to see what you have to say on on the channels So this was an email that came from Peter O'H
37:02 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Marilyn and Sara.
37:04 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you are both doing well.
37:05 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I am so excited to be listening to your podcast again.
37:08 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a welcome harbinger of the upcoming season of The Rings of Power.
37:11 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yay!
37:12 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Peter.
37:13 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what we hope it is and what we intended it to be.
37:17 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed your recent conversation on the nature of El Rons relationship with the legend of his father and how it influences his actions.
37:26 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So what extent do you think that show creators are mining the established lore to flesh out the psychological depth of these characters?
37:34 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a lot, I think.
37:36 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
37:37 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:37 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
37:39 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's helping them to create more layers for the characters, although they are doing their own thing as well.
37:46 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But why not mind the lore that they are allowed to have access to?
37:51 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they're doing exactly that.
37:53 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and we talked about how he's thinking of what one my father do, and as a result, this is influencing him and giving us death and showing us the son of a possibly accomplished father, and that is probably part of his emotional resistance.
38:18 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: even to his best friends.
38:20 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:21 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, it's good to see that and to see that rooted in there.
38:27 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Peter continues, one thing I really like about the show is how Saladron is an active character, as opposed to the third-age stories, where he is a distant disembodied shadow.
38:38 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I found Charlie Vickers performance this past season to be quite scary.
38:43 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_01]: He really brings to life the idea of sailor on the deceiver, the manipulator, the groomer, the predator.
38:50 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: As you discussed in your recent podcast, his revelation to Kella Brimboar was very quite like.
38:56 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I also had that picture of Jesus' splash and the thought in my home growing up.
39:02 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Peter, I really don't think you're alone at that.
39:05 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: No, definitely not.
39:07 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: and yeah, and that's all of the groomer.
39:10 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that just just me chills, but it does run.
39:13 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a good way of putting it because that's exactly what he's doing.
39:17 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed, indeed.
39:19 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Back to Peter.
39:21 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, I love the idea of the harfwoods walking song actually being a map.
39:25 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It is evocative of the nature of pre-literate societies where practical knowledge and history will retain in songs and stories and directly referenced the land.
39:35 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently there are several indigenous Australian tribal songs which accurately describe the areas of coastal land that were submerged by rising sea levels 7 years ago.
39:44 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
39:47 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_01]: it is really fascinating.
39:48 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Goodness, that is incredible.
39:51 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I've only read a very little bit about the indigenous Australians, prayer songs, almost travel songs, they call them, and they use the songs to help them travel the land.
40:04 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, I think probably they were to some degree contributing this inspiration to how the showrunners are depicting the harfots.
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
40:17 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_01]: finishing with Peter.
40:18 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, thank you both for adding to my enjoyment of the show and the water Tolkien legendarium.
40:23 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you very well.
40:25 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to your future commentary.
40:27 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
40:28 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope we live up to not your expectations.
40:32 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope we bring you more that that pleases you, I guess, would be a good way to put it.
40:36 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
40:37 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
40:38 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And best regards, Peter.
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, H. Thank you, Peter.
40:41 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate all of that lovely feedback.
40:44 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, indeed.
40:46 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So, next, we have some comments from Falco or Philip, who says, that interpretation of the Vala are saying, this is your problem, makes sense to me.
40:57 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: The only aspect of the scene that doesn't gel with me is the direction of the wave.
41:00 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'd been hit from that direction, I would have dropped them overboard, ah, I was killed and, or is he not one of the greatest sailors?
41:09 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's just better at being on a boat.
41:11 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:12 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but this is now.
41:15 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He says the second time the Valar have intervened the first time being the tears of the Valar in season one.
41:21 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I still haven't worked out why they did so as it only made short-term sense in Galadriel and Numinor's immediate situation not the long-term fate of the world.
41:32 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so in response to the, the Kyrdon question, I rewatch that scene very carefully because I really wanted to get a sense of exactly what was happening at that point.
41:44 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So by reading of this,
41:46 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: was that something jossled to the boat from below the surface of the water and carried on his hand that was holding the rings this flung back into the boat itself when it was jossled and then he dropped the rings in the bottom of the boat instead of in the water which was his original tension although he couldn't find it you know that just decided to go who he is back at the moment I think the show and his new that that really would be a bridge too far
42:18 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also asked him about the significance of the music that appears whenever the elves are just discussing the rings, because Peter is the host of the YouTube podcast, what have you called it now, words and magic of music.
42:35 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So he is going through and doing very careful analysis of specific themes and different characters and so forth.
42:42 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's very musically attuned.
42:44 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So I asked him the question about what you call this theme that appears whenever the elves are discussing the rings, being chanted into the rings.
42:54 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It appears a couple of times when I gave him them and felt perplexed, you were spot on Maryland about the music.
43:00 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an example of what magic sounds like in various scores.
43:04 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a reason that I am calling my series the words end of magic of music.
43:08 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Magic has a recognizable sound in his score and I will be doing some episodes on this very
43:15 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Bear calls that like motif true creation.
43:19 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I excise a little bit here and he ended by saying, yes, we are meant to make the connection to the line of dialogue.
43:26 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: True creation requires sacrifice.
43:29 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_01]: which does give it an uncomfortable interpretation as this is something that's out on takes on wholeheartedly with his creation process.
43:36 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
43:37 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It is an interesting idea to think about what each character needs to sacrifice in their creative process.
43:44 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent points.
43:46 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
43:47 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have some more feedback in today's video.
43:51 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this is from Asadai.
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: from the discord channel.
43:56 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_01]: She says, listen to episode one today and it's so good.
44:00 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Also thank you.
44:01 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
44:01 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
44:02 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
44:02 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
44:03 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: A few of you and then she says, feel.
44:05 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Thoughts I had.
44:05 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_01]: She's got a bunch of points for it.
44:08 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I love this wrist one.
44:09 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You say a daughter is a drifter on the sorts and how that might not be what he wanted.
44:13 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I say a daughter is an illazy boy chair.
44:17 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very funny to think Waldreg is constantly like you just take a
44:26 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
44:27 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_01]: She's so right.
44:29 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Waldreg is that exact combination of sequieousness to Adar and basically cuffing everybody else.
44:36 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
44:37 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm an adulting character.
44:41 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about Toadie.
44:42 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He's another version of Warming Tongue, I think.
44:45 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
44:47 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Although he's not trying to trick Adar, but he's definitely Toadie.
44:54 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I said I goes on in seriousness, Adada says he, it says in season one, but he's not a god yet, which is what is needed to change everything.
45:04 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting is seeing him having creative a land for all his children, using a lot of toil, and I wonder if he doesn't think of himself as somewhat powerful.
45:15 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he just seems tired and he has been around a very long time.
45:21 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, seriously.
45:23 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's entitled to his lazy boy chair to be honest.
45:27 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he would agree with you, but he doesn't stick in it very long, unfortunately.
45:31 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He does not.
45:34 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going on more golf being the chaotic kid who breaks all the toys and south on being more of the controlling one is so great.
45:41 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: She thinks of him as the one who pulls wings off flies or sort of, so yeah, yeah I thought about balancing his selfishness and the order of nature, although I know we don't agree here that Elf equals peaceful and order of equals violent.
45:55 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I think by here she means here in the series.
45:58 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah You know, I think everybody has their own equation or own answer that particular equation I think it's really important to recognize that it is an understandable stance he takes
46:09 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_01]: because they twisted and tortured him, and created the Orcs as slaves, and will not let him be.
46:16 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: How does Adar find peace in the violent world bent on erasing him and his children?
46:23 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_01]: or even the most noble, elf warrior vows to do a genocide, his kind.
46:30 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He does not have peace as a choice.
46:32 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That, of course, is referring to season one, will Galadriel tell Sambid.
46:35 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_01]: She's going to force him to watch as she kills every single one of her children.
46:38 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
46:39 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Not Galadriel's best look or if he is not her best moment.
46:44 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
46:45 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
46:45 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd like to think she's grown from that a bit since then.
46:51 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we'll see it, won't we?
46:52 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we will.
46:55 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And then finally, she, I'd do like to swim, because it's didn't go with doors.
46:59 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Eldon, not liking the artificial extension of life and your discussion very much echoes Daddy Doran and Baby Doran's conversation in season one episode seven about why Daddy Doran can't allow digging from Israel to say those.
47:14 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially this beautiful version of
47:18 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know which tribal nation but from this continent, there are two wolves inside you and one of them, you know, is for peace and one is for war and it all depends on which one you feed.
47:42 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_01]: and flame that knows the truth, that one day all things must be consumed, and the elves are trying to cheat death.
47:52 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely different from Eldron's previous take of, ah, what's a little digging going to do.
48:00 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's some great points in that.
48:03 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it demonstrates just how much reversal happens when King Booton puts that ring on.
48:14 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_01]: and decides yeah yeah we're going to we're going to take this we're going to do it for sure
48:21 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So would you like to give us our fellow piece of feedback for today?
48:25 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I think this person has one of my favorite discord handles, actually.
48:28 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Two KDS, two DGS, two kids, two dogs, also known as Nancy, wrote in with this.
48:34 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You highlighted that Keller Brimble opened a bottle of first-age wine to celebrate the success of the first batch of rings.
48:41 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, this may be laugh after just having what sideways for elevens is.
48:46 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lawhouse programme for supporters in which they pick a movie to review.
48:50 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was wondering if this is not a ritual.
48:52 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: For me and my husband opening a special bottle of wine is a ritual for many reasons.
48:57 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We honeymoon in Sonoma Napa.
49:00 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So each time we open a bottle, we brought back with us.
49:02 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We take the time to remember visiting that particular winery.
49:06 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a ritual of buying a very nice or expensive bottle of wine, and then cooking something that pairs with it.
49:12 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a couple ritual we have.
49:14 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So could Kella Brimble be celebrating with the first age vintage be considered a ritual?
49:18 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
49:19 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
49:20 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm just saying choosing to open up this bottle, which he's kept for, I mean, literally thousands of years and Goli, I hope that No, it's not vinegar.
49:32 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, exactly.
49:33 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, okay, Elvis wine.
49:35 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get it, but still, you know, you got to be a little concerned about that.
49:39 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be yes.
49:41 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But drinking wine or alcohol as part of a ritual is very, very familiar.
49:47 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And Catholics will recognize right away the ritual using wine in the, at the mass, whereas Protestants, you know, we, we take to the grape juice instead.
49:59 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, still come both still come from grapes, right?
50:03 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, and color brimble, bringing out a special bottle to celebrate something.
50:09 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That does feel very close to the kind of couple rituals that you're mentioning that, and by the way, those are adorable couple rituals.
50:15 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're great.
50:17 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, definitely wonderful, and you know, this is probably the first thing that color brimble or the aspiring creator has ever had to celebrate to this level in this life.
50:30 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's also got this sort of son of the impossible, the accomplished daddy.
50:37 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_01]: One daddy accomplished wonderful things.
50:39 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This one not so much, but there's still this drive to try and outdo daddy as it were.
50:46 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, daddy is he is much.
50:48 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
50:49 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the first step in that direction, if it is.
50:54 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's it for this episode.
50:55 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_01]: We're adding in, let us know what you think.
50:59 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Any suggestions you might have for rituals to look at as Nancy did with the wine ritual, thank you, Nancy.
51:05 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And anything else you'd like to share with us.
51:07 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We welcome your feedback at rings and rituals at TheLoreHounds.com or on TheLoreHounds Discord server where we have a special channel set up just for rings and rituals.
51:20 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_00]: On the lower-hand's website, there's also a contact form and a voicemail feature.
51:24 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Look for the contact us link at the bottom of the page.
51:27 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We're aiming to publish weekly episodes, but if you follow any of the lower-hand's podcasts, you'll hear our ads, and they'll let you know if there's a change in schedule, or possibly even a special episode in the pipeline.
51:38 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, stay tuned.
51:41 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Also be sure to check out the other podcasts, supported by the Barovian Broadcasting Network.
51:47 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: our affiliate podcasts, such as Rings and Mitchell's, and of course, John David and Alicia on the main Lord Pounds podcast.
51:55 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Links for all of these are also in-linked in the show notes below.
52:00 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, our thanks to our recording engineer and editor, Bob, to David and John are producers, and to John for arranging our theme music as well as all those who support us along the way.
52:11 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: If you would like to support us and the podcast, you can find us on Patreon at patreon.com slash the lower hands.
52:18 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribers will get access to free versions as to ad-free versions, excuse me, as well as many other benefits.
52:26 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time then, remember, a sure path may crumble, but there is always another one.
52:33 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: HALVA, FEDWELFINOW.
52:36 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_01]: NECKI MEAN, until we meet again,