John and Marilyn recap the end of an era in the season finale of Foundation.
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00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lorhound's podcast.
00:21 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: We are the Lorhound's Your Guides to Psycho History.
00:24 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm John.
00:25 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Marilyn.
00:26 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_02]: This is our coverage of the final episode of Season 3 Foundation on Apple TV Plus.
00:32 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Season 3 Episode 10, The Darkness.
00:36 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to get in touch with us, send us an email to Empire at the Lorhound's.com or head to our Discord server from Link Tree in the show notes.
00:46 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you like what we've heard and you want to support us or get ad free and bonus content, check the same link free for our Patreon and supercass subscription options.
00:54 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got plenty of bonus content coming up.
00:56 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Second breakfast, the Lebanese, we're doing musicals next month.
00:59 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:00 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's on the list.
01:01 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's on the list.
01:02 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Alicia's also got some spooked over stuff plans, so it's all going to be coming up.
01:06 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the time to subscribe.
01:08 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: We do a Christmas thing, a lot of fun stuff.
01:12 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you want to support us for free,
01:15 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So, leave her with you on our main podcast feed.
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's always a big help.
01:19 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen a couple trickling in, so thank you, I know people have been listening, so thank you very much.
01:23 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
01:24 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Giving those reviews in.
01:25 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's wonderful.
01:27 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's enough housekeeping.
01:29 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I keep it short these days.
01:31 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.
01:34 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into hot takes.
01:35 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What were your hot takes, Marilyn?
01:37 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I got to say I was not a happy camper after the first watch.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: No, me either.
01:42 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Me either.
01:43 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I was.
01:47 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, even then though there were some magnificent stuff, the scenes between day and dimmer cell were just pitch-perfect, very saddest one, and I'm not sure if I can
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We may have encountered our own markedly moment.
02:08 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I have very mixed feelings on that.
02:10 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:10 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not totally sure that we did encounter our own.
02:13 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
02:14 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we did either.
02:15 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still, you know, um, there is always hope.
02:19 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to, okay, so format wise.
02:22 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to do a spoiler talk today because we're going to do a longer spoiler talk on the wrap up.
02:26 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do another wrap up next week.
02:29 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but let's do a full swelery wrap-up next week during our finale.
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Our season break down.
02:39 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I will do my best to hold my thoughts until then.
02:42 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, say what you want to say, but probably going to end it out.
02:47 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: If you check my notes, you can check my notes when we get down to that section.
02:51 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you see anything, you want me to save, just say so.
02:54 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all right.
02:55 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: What are your hot takes, John?
02:56 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, I too was a little down on it when I first watched it and I watched it right after we recorded episode nine.
03:02 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I said, I probably should go to sleep, but I wanna watch it and I watched it right afterwards.
03:06 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
03:08 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it was foundation fatigue, but I really wasn't feeling it that much.
03:12 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: On rewatch, I actually liked it quite a lot.
03:15 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it very much was itself to a rewatch because you go in with,
03:20 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: different expectations.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_02]: That was my experience precisely.
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We watched was much better.
03:25 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
03:26 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think both times I really did enjoy the empire parts.
03:30 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, it's gruesome, but like, we, this was, this was the kind of choice that you're like, this was inevitable if you look back, right?
03:39 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was expecting it even before I looked back.
03:42 --> 03:42 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
03:42 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:43 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:44 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I really liked the Empire stuff.
03:46 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, the scenes with day and day and demos are wonderful.
03:49 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:51 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The set up of next season with the final shot, I think is fantastic.
03:57 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're gonna do a really good job with that.
04:00 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
04:01 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And even the stuff with the Mewel, all right.
04:03 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Mewel stuff, what I thought was the weakest part of it.
04:06 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I do too.
04:06 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But, but, now that I know that they're planning to use David Goyer's plan for season four.
04:14 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay.
04:15 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the overall plan for the rest of the show, basically, they said they're going to follow the outline, I think.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I hear.
04:22 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm wrong.
04:23 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I misheard something somewhere.
04:25 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that they're, I think that they're planning to go forward under, under the same major plot-out wide.
04:31 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows what the writing is going to look like, who knows what the casting is going to look like in the productions?
04:36 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel much better knowing that the plan is going to go forward as intended.
04:43 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I am not convinced that that is the trumial, I'm going to be honest with you.
04:50 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not either and I had some particular reasons which if it's all right in our final comments.
04:57 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to get into.
04:59 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think I like the discussion as more did I just want to.
05:01 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to do a big section on the wrap-up, so I don't want totally exhaust our thoughts.
05:06 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, sure.
05:07 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think this episode, I think was a little bit disappointing at first because it doesn't wrap up everything neatly.
05:15 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
05:16 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
05:16 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_02]: You look dangling in the air and say, well, well, how, hmm, what?
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And you want it to be wrapped up neatly.
05:23 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
05:23 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That being said, foundation and empire, the book does not wrap up neatly.
05:30 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Well that's true.
05:31 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a very big cliffhanger on what's going to happen next, and it's almost a similar cliffhanger, right?
05:39 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Is what's going to happen between the mule and the second foundation?
05:44 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They're definitely weaving material from all seven of the serious books, and not in
05:52 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_02]: strict chronological order either.
05:53 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting.
05:55 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:55 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So I honestly think that this is a good setup for next season.
05:59 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Once I watched it with the thought of my head, this is a setup episode for next season.
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the episode a lot.
06:06 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you go into it and you expect big bang boom, this is going to be a series finale type event where we're going to really wrap it up.
06:14 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's a disappointing episode, but I don't think it needs to be disappointing.
06:17 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think
06:21 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I wanted at least one or two wrap-ups because we've had in seasons one and two and I don't it's hard for me to point to anyone thing and say yes, we had a wrap-up.
06:32 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we basically got a wrap-up on Empire.
06:35 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
06:37 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: On Dusk?
06:37 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
06:38 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
06:39 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's just going to flounder now.
06:40 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe not.
06:41 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, it does seem like we have to pick up pretty far pretty soon after, right?
06:46 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I can't.
06:47 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to be able to do a big time jump after this.
06:50 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
06:51 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so at all.
06:53 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
06:53 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's going to be pretty, pretty jump up and go when we get to season four in two years or whatever it is.
07:04 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, because I think this would be a really great serial type of thing to be watching yearly, right?
07:11 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And annually.
07:12 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
07:14 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, that is what it is.
07:15 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Productions, schedules are what they are and that's kind of just modern TV.
07:18 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Overall, I thought,
07:20 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_00]: great set up for next season, great set up for next season.
07:23 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I want to leave you with.
07:24 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be a downer on this.
07:26 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I think if you're listening to this right now and you didn't like the episode, I would recommend you watch it again with different expectations because I think you will really enjoy it more and it'll leave you with a better taste on the season as a whole.
07:42 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Just watch it again, whatever your expectations.
07:45 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, try to come with it if I'm in mind, but I'm not sure I did in my second viewing and it was much, much better anyway, so.
07:51 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
07:53 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
07:53 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Rereads, rewatches, they're always fun because you're thinking less of what's gonna happen and more, how does it happen?
07:58 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
07:59 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
08:00 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:00 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, let's get right into the episode breakdown.
08:04 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with day and dimmer's L. Yes.
08:06 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Day carries the breeze and head to dimmer's L.
08:11 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: then presents her with the gift.
08:12 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: She refuses to reactivate it and day does his best to do their repairs himself with reluctant gestures of guidance from Demerzel.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They are interrupted by the antics of dusk.
08:25 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this was emotionally so very satisfying.
08:29 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like coming back to mom after having a falling out.
08:34 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It was that it was also a recognition
08:42 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_02]: that Demerousel in it certainly, but still was committed to.
08:48 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And my very well have undergone any way, even she hadn't been locked into place with it.
08:56 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And I find it interesting.
08:59 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_02]: He sneaks into the Imperial Dining Room, where the remains of the sacrificial lamb still lie on the table.
09:05 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a fair bit here on Sacrifice in one thing in another.
09:11 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And because we have seen all those memories of his from childhood, when he meals to her and bow his literally his head to the ground, um, and she opens her arms in the gesture that she had when we saw him as a very young child.
09:28 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Dawn, um, it's, yeah, it's a very tender moment in very moving and just so
09:41 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_02]: outrage and the violation of what the first plan did to hurt becomes transparent because she says she can't sing to the head to class with it because it would violate her directive to serve plans.
09:56 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to nitpick on this.
09:57 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Why couldn't Klyon sing to the head?
10:03 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He woke it up once.
10:04 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Why couldn't he just sing to it to wake it up?
10:07 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: When did Klyon wake up the head?
10:10 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Cleon not not in the scene, but Cleon when he was in the his trial, he sang and it answered back to him.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I see what you're saying.
10:19 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Why couldn't he wake up the head in front of her and that way it started seeking a class and should be free.
10:27 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it didn't seem a little bit like just do one extra thing.
10:32 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But he like, why are you trying to use the tools?
10:34 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But you see at that point, even if
10:40 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think she would have responded to the handshake because she couldn't because of her programming.
10:47 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it wasn't so much a question of they couldn't get it to function because we know they could as you said.
10:53 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But she just said she could not and it's heartbreaking because you could see how much she was though and she's crying and just incredibly conflicted at this point.
11:08 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, talk about being at war with yourself, huh?
11:12 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:12 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just really, really pretty earshaking and the two actors just convey it beautifully.
11:23 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, at the peak moment, when you really think she's about to do it, she suddenly says, I have to go.
11:31 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_02]: My programming is commanding me to go to the clone tanks.
11:38 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_02]: and they ask, well, what's happening in Tim herself says, too many things at once.
11:43 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're back to the multi-curseal path.
11:45 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_02]: We're back to the maze.
11:47 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
11:47 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_02]: She's already in the midst of this incredible conflict.
11:50 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That just sounds like being a parent.
11:53 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening to me, things at once?
11:55 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, no, that's stuff.
11:57 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And she is, right, she's got two kids there and one's acting up while the other one's trying to save her.
12:03 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Acting up, yeah, that's a fine way of putting what's going on.
12:07 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, she does what she can because she encounters quenches, wants to know what's going on, and she tells quenches to take college, ninth proof of folding, and go to the librarian.
12:24 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, her choice is about, you know, if I help the second foundation is that, you know, contrary to my programming, and will that be the last nail on the empire's
12:38 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_02]: and perhaps thinking back to the previous episode and Colle said to her, if you have not seen in the future, definitively, your reason for choosing, then both paths are still open to you and you can do things without necessarily having an ultimate intent in mind.
13:00 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
13:02 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought that was interesting.
13:04 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're all just farting through life sometimes,
13:08 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Kurt Vonnegut would say.
13:10 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no doubt, but when you're a robot, I just not sure you can accept that concept.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Fartened through life.
13:16 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a robotic concept.
13:18 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I tend to doubt it.
13:19 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we have flash lines.
13:21 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So well, even to side from that aspect of it, yeah, the whole idea that you can ever do anything, quote, unquote, thoughtlessly, yeah, or it's stuff inadvertently,
13:37 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_02]: knowingly or any of those things, just not available.
13:41 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:44 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is a, it's a tough scene to watch, but a beautiful scene to watch this whole.
13:50 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, this, this mother son thing and yeah, I, I, you, you want, this is, I think the strongest scene of the episode because you want so badly for Cleon to succeed, right?
14:02 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You want so badly for day to finally do something selfless.
14:07 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_02]: which I think you could argue he already has in many respects.
14:11 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I, you want him to successfully do it, right?
14:15 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You want him to successfully do it.
14:16 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
14:17 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: To make all here, for sure.
14:18 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:18 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:18 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:19 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:20 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:20 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:20 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:20 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:21 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:22 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:22 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:24 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:24 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:25 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:25 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
14:38 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in this sense, he's trying to make a man's, he's trying to atone.
14:42 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were just chatting about a book series I'm reading off air and one of the lessons, but one of the lessons that one of the main characters has to learn is you can't save everyone.
14:51 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's unfair to put that on yourself and it's toxic to put that on yourself.
14:57 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
14:58 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't save everyone.
14:59 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You save who you can, but you can't save everyone.
15:02 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
15:03 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to be willing to accept that and not let it inhibit right your capacity to do any saving at all ready to go to dusk's big day Yeah, let's go ahead.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw this scene.
15:18 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like Marilyn is not going to be happy It's just a telling you So what what's this on the peculiar scale if a zero is zero is neutral zero is the rings of power season one
15:33 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's it's choppy, but you got to understand, John, I held my five-week-old grandson not too long ago.
15:42 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And that more than anything else was just made this for me, just utterly awful.
15:51 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, I, I, I, I think the baby thing was so
15:57 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't even read what happens yet, but the baby thing was so unrealistic, like the laser beam, like disintegrating it, that I was talking about that too.
16:06 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of like less bothered by it because it was so unrealistic, do you know what I mean?
16:11 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: if I hadn't just told my grandson, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it just now.
16:17 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying it's true about body parts, we're bothering me more.
16:21 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they were bothering me equally, I guess.
16:23 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's the day, but let's let me give us our synopsis here.
16:28 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
16:28 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Just goes through the motions of his ascension preparations.
16:31 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He allows his aura to be removed, but walked past his nanite removal,
16:39 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: He baits Demorselle into protecting the baby that would soon be done, only to destroy both her and the baby with a laser, leaving only a partial skull remaining of Demorselle.
16:50 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_00]: He then murders day and sits on his middle throne, ordering the other two removed.
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wouldn't want to be that major, Donald.
16:59 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember his name or can I remember the name of his office.
17:02 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember him either, but boy is he in for it if he ever steps out a line even a little bit.
17:08 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: well he's he's running when f when he leaves the presence right we see a brief view of him running down the corner yeah my first thought with a very first scene at the episode opens with that dusk is gazing out of his balcony on the last day of the rest of his life he too he also goes past a new dusk already in the clone tank
17:32 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_02]: and greets that fully formed baby as empire.
17:37 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, they have several times when we've been in the clonatorium, as I call it.
17:44 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_02]: We've had a sort of a pause shot on that fully formed baby floating around and it's often made me wonder, well, so is Dawn actually born as a baby because then we also see an older version of Dawn.
18:01 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to dawn, I just, it kind of, what's the function of this?
18:06 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I know, I mean, a little touch of, what does it check out?
18:10 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It's gone, you know, we see.
18:12 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out the baby.
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Check out the baby, yeah.
18:15 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we see the baby there, we don't know why.
18:17 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And suddenly we know why.
18:19 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's absolutely heinous.
18:22 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm certain.
18:24 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely awful.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I wasn't trying to downplay the baby.
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you were.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you were.
18:29 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just, for me, I was like, oh, that's very sci-fi.
18:32 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can, I can, I can dissociate from that.
18:35 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_00]: The body parts of like, yeah, that could happen in the real world.
18:40 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just, let's not have that.
18:43 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, once it was really clear what kind of the blood
18:52 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I might have been breakfast.
18:54 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
18:55 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have warned you not to eat lunch.
18:58 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm accustomed to it.
19:02 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, from the very beginning, I don't really think that the Taylor wanted darkness to hug her.
19:10 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
19:10 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about invasive invasion of personal space.
19:15 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Imperial HR is going to have to send out a memo here.
19:22 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:23 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And when Darkness asks his major demo, he says, I think I'm old enough now to walk down the whole of myself.
19:30 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I was already very suspicious.
19:34 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:34 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Me, too.
19:35 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Even though we didn't actually see him bypassed the Nanite removal station at that point.
19:42 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.
19:44 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought, no, he's he he'd already been in that clonitorium with all kinds of
19:50 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Unbalanced comments that he was making and he was almost frolicking once he was out right.
19:56 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he was he was beyond he was giddy He was absolutely beyond and when he first sees when he first enters it
20:06 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_02]: we've got the the musical theme of empire going on, which has always been very dark and broody and you know bassoon's in the little instruments, but then as he starts to destroy the clones we're hearing them ourselves nullify, and it was absolutely heartbreaking to me.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll hear these.
20:28 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a definite touch of the layers in this.
20:31 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was thinking of the blow wins and crack your cheeks, rage, blow and Chris he was being the wind and it was just ghastly.
20:43 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he does finally take the baby and it's the sound of the baby crying that lead day and dimmer's cell from the appalling scene of the slaughter to try and rescue this baby.
20:58 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_02]: from another circular space in the center of it, she's placed to be, I mean, the whole floor plan of this whole thing is a little confusing to me.
21:08 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I thought he was using a beam from the novecular, which definitely did not make sense to me, because I thought that once that started, it's like a chain reaction.
21:16 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that's what it is.
21:17 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So it must have been something else all the time.
21:19 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_00]: This was your standard issue, space laser.
21:22 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So, A, how did you get up there, B, when, I mean, I know these are again questions that actually just how they dispose of the refuse.
21:30 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_02]: In a very high tower turret with a, you know, kind of formal round, beautiful.
21:36 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, tell us more, tell us whiff.
21:38 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Takes a private jet when she wants to get a steak from across the world.
21:41 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I, you know, rich people.
21:43 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_02]: This is Taylor Swift.
21:44 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Rich people do what they're going to do.
21:47 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't understand them.
21:49 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I definitely don't understand darkness here, definitely do not.
21:53 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, by the way, it didn't take me too long to figure out, okay, that's where the title for this.
21:58 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
22:01 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the darkness is, you know, the dusk of sense to darkness here, right?
22:06 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And for these things, I think, as a better way to put it for this time.
22:10 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's really interesting stuff.
22:13 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody was asking, um, I think it was on the right it.
22:17 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They were talking about how.
22:18 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it that?
22:20 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: this dusk seems so much younger than the other dusks at the time of their death from that scene in the middle in the beginning of the season.
22:27 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And that this day seems younger than, you know, the almost dusky leave haste that was there.
22:34 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And they point out that like this was the whole moving everything up, right?
22:38 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It used to be, I think, a 30 and 60 they ascend.
22:42 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
22:42 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Now it's now it's something younger.
22:45 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's probably like 70 years old instead of like 90 years old.
22:49 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it could well be that Demiselle just decided with a genetic program already pretty wonky.
22:54 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's not let age kind of wear it down even further.
22:57 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a day, right, who put it into place because, because dusk basically asks day, earlier in the season, like, right, but he can't you extend me, but still at the end of the day, if Demiselle didn't approve it wouldn't have happened.
23:11 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably true.
23:12 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So she has to have some agency in this.
23:19 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_02]: using the rate to threaten the life of a baby client, which almost impels and result a Russian to save it because of her programming.
23:29 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's just really pretty heinous to me.
23:32 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:33 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And interesting that her prime radiant survives.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why is that stronger?
23:39 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But then at the end, we get a clue to that, right?
23:42 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Doc, you said something about, well, what is this made of, or whatever, I can't remember these act tracing, but I'm not sure what the clue is, but we can wait until whatever you do.
23:51 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll also see you coming up.
23:53 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Also say, why, why is that this laser was hot enough to melt the robot and a baby, but he can just pick up the prime radiant and it doesn't even feel hot.
24:04 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't burn.
24:04 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
24:05 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, he's not like, ow, I feel like I'm in a hot figure tips.
24:11 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:11 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:12 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the very least.
24:13 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:14 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this clearly has to do with Coli, right?
24:19 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Coli was able to help him.
24:22 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: do the, I think it is, is that the robots were somehow involved with the primary yet, because at the end, we see that we're just, at the very end.
24:30 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that I agree with.
24:31 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So I suppose what you mean is collay, robot collay, kind of material, right, robot collay, which kind of material that you, you know, we could talk about it.
24:39 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure, I am not sure that, uh, robot collay was always collay, or is that?
24:46 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a robot that took the form of collay.
24:48 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even sure if I think we're meant to read here as a robot from the final scene.
24:53 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit.
24:55 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: But that was another question to my.
24:57 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
24:57 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also feel it was a shame that Deborah Zell had already descended just such a level of confusion.
25:05 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
25:07 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Because the logical solution would have been just shove brother darkness.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Who should have been dusted by now anyway?
25:17 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_02]: into the ray and use him as a shield against the beam to rescue the baby.
25:22 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I was I thought you were going to say just kick the baby out of the way.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That too.
25:26 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
25:27 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But but I did think like why isn't she just like moving him out of the way?
25:30 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: She's already on top of him just moving out of the way.
25:33 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can drop roll and fix yourself later.
25:35 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But
25:37 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work.
25:38 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It was, yeah, I actually liked your explanation.
25:41 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think of that.
25:41 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It did seem a little cheap to me that she just like, you know, stayed on top of them.
25:46 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't have any other solution.
25:47 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you could also argue that maybe like the heat, the pain overwhelmed her.
25:53 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't able to move any more.
25:55 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, sure.
25:56 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But I still think that she's feeling so overwhelmed at this point with too much going on all at once.
26:05 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_02]: goes with sort of the gut level, level one choices without having time to do all the logical explanation of, well, why don't you know, obviously it took me a while to think of this solution.
26:17 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, in the meantime, I wasn't, you know, being blasted by all these sort of kind of tends to disrupt your thinking process.
26:25 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I would think I've never had it happen though.
26:28 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I was very amused when I was dictating my lines to my dictation bot, and I said, day attacks, darkness, and chases into the dining hall, shouting that Demosal could have been freed from the imperative to serve Cleans, and my bot inserted crayons in there instead of
26:59 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where we learn the darkness never did get rid of us.
27:03 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And he slaughtered the defenseless day at this point.
27:08 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And then tells him the dream lives on in me because you kept it alive.
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Which, you know.
27:14 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That was such a mockery.
27:16 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
27:17 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It really vile.
27:18 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:19 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but what's his plan, right?
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like plan?
27:23 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You think he even has a plan?
27:25 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: but he has the wherewithal to be like get rid of the other thrones just me now but yeah who's his heir it can he hold it with his military might i he's not thinking about he's not thinking so she's strategy went up the window for this guy yeah he just wants to live one more day basically it's the revenge quance called it you know the destruction of three worlds she said this was petty revenge now do you think she he does this
27:54 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: If she had the last meal with him, he had a good night and he wakes up in the morning refreshed.
27:59 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he does it another way.
28:01 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course he does.
28:02 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted that night with her because he knew he was never going to get in again.
28:07 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, she was going to be horrified.
28:09 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: She walks in, he's blood covered and he knows.
28:13 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely horrible.
28:15 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:17 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_02]: interesting that he demands that only the center of throne remain you know hold that thought listeners because I have some comments when we come to another section further down here it's interesting because by the time of this in the books empire is basically dot right it is a
28:37 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: barely exists, right?
28:40 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see that all, that all happens off-screen.
28:42 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're really interesting to see this depiction of what happened to Empire.
28:47 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the book concepts are that it's just a bunch of, you know, jacked-up, gender-war generals all fighting each other and trying to claim which, again, very much modeled after what happened with the Roman Empire.
29:01 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and there's no clone dynasty in the book.
29:04 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So, that's all, that's all show creation.
29:07 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And it really is interesting as you were doing a little bit of already to say.
29:11 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So, with your clé-ons now, because, right, no work-loading tanks.
29:17 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And I really doubt that darkness is capable of, you know, please be incapable of conceiving a child.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Although of course, there's always, you know,
29:30 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_02]: implanting, or I don't know.
29:31 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure they have the the technology of this point, right?
29:35 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
29:35 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:36 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:37 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Into a woman.
29:39 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They can literally, you know, store as I go, right?
29:42 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what Gale is doing for someone.
29:44 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Indeed, they could.
29:45 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's a terrible thought.
29:49 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Gale, protect that's what I go.
29:51 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a band in high school, and I was trying to name it, and this girl who was in the band said, why don't we name it Zygotes in the friends?
29:58 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what the heck?
30:00 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would we name it Zygotes in friends?
30:02 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, I don't know.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Gets people's attention.
30:05 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We did not go with that name.
30:06 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to make clear.
30:07 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We did not come Zygotes in friends.
30:10 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the name of the band, but thankfully it was not that.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I thankfully indeed.
30:17 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But now we get a little spoony.
30:19 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: a little spooning.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that sounds very intimate.
30:22 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw your notes here.
30:26 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's talk about the spoons after we take a quick break.
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
30:49 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Spoon?
30:50 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Spoon?
30:51 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Spoon?
30:53 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Gale meditates before she and the rest of the rebels prepare to attack the Mule.
30:58 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Harry uses his spoon to transport the rebels to new terminuses to command station, where he distracts the Mule's forces and allows Gale to infiltrate the station deeper.
31:10 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Beta realizes she can escape and tries to bring Dawn, but he cannot walk well enough and tells her to go on without him.
31:17 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So for those listeners who have poor memory or just don't know what they had you're talking about, Dallas about the spoons John
31:26 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Just last episode, just rewatch last episode because we have a four dimensional object, which is the vault, which again, definitely built by the robots, right?
31:36 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's where the hair got that technology.
31:38 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
31:40 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely think that's true.
31:41 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there was a deliberate collaboration with the robots from here.
31:44 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think because Coli was so deeply involved with the prime radiant from the very beginning.
31:49 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:55 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_02]: it was gale who used the spoon to demonstrate the concept.
31:59 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
31:59 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're talking about spoons.
32:01 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
32:02 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
32:02 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But then this episode didn't go spoon.
32:04 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Spoon.
32:05 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, as if, you know, basically to say, okay, is it time for me to do the thing you wanted to do?
32:10 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was funny.
32:11 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I did too.
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I enjoyed it.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was good.
32:14 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
32:15 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, yeah, you put the three-dimensional shadow over the
32:20 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: three dimensional space you tilt the shadow to pour the people into the four dimensional object and you can do vice versa apparently you can put them back onto a place and so that's why the vault was moving the shadow so that the three dimensional shadow was on
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: the space station.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to, I'm not as smart as the second story.
32:43 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't try to explain it.
32:46 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Just recognize, they have an explanation.
32:48 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
32:49 --> 32:50 [SPEAKER_02]: That's good enough for me.
32:50 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It honestly was, it was, I did enjoy the metaphor, right?
32:53 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that it was, I did really explain that.
32:56 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And at least the three and four dimensions was, you know, even not
33:03 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_02]: conceive just enough of what they're talking about to understand what they're aiming at.
33:09 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Without really seeing, okay, this is how it actually works.
33:13 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was an odd choice to put the friends theme song over the montage of all her friends though.
33:19 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So no one told you that was going to be this way, you know, I think I honestly though you overlay that on it and I think it works.
33:30 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I had kind of a different
33:32 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I, again, her, the visual of this room of hers, her inner mind palace or whatever, to me is very beautiful and very satisfying, and she's drawing upon all of those who loved and supported her.
33:49 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, yes, friends can love and support you, but, you know, the parents, her daughter, her mentor, Harry, her lover, race.
33:58 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And she says, these are my strength, which cards back to what Prem said to her last episode that she has something you'll doesn't, which is a community.
34:12 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So I liked that a lot.
34:16 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm still kind of astonished as a way of Maggie's a part of the team.
34:21 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
34:22 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And Maggie is there without any explanation.
34:25 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: and with no restraints, with no restraints, no restraints, and that is my number one case of why beta is not the mule.
34:33 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Mine too.
34:34 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I have a whole litany of things to say.
34:37 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you could argue because of something that happens towards the end, which we haven't gotten to yet, that they knew it was okay to have an unfettered Maggie in their midst, but I don't know.
34:50 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
34:51 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I loved a little exchange Gale says to Pricch, I seem to remember you telling me that assassination is a failure of some kind.
34:59 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Pricch says, oh, what do I know?
35:05 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_02]: For one second, there, I have no idea why, but when Harry joins the team, he reminds me of of George Reeves, I think it was from the old TV Superman.
35:16 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about this late 50s early 60s.
35:18 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's no reason why you should I don't know.
35:22 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We just, you know, the whole suiting of kind of thing.
35:24 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Avengers assemble for some reason the visual of it Just made him pick of that Whatever
35:32 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty fun though.
35:33 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so there's a couple of things in this scene that give me clues that beta is not the people.
35:38 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And I am going to firmly hold that beta is not the mule, that this is a secondary fake out.
35:45 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I am with you.
35:46 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Secondary fake out.
35:48 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I am of the same mind as you, John.
35:51 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The whole show I thought the mule was not really the mule.
35:54 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, thank you.
35:55 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's in part for book knowledge.
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think this is a secondary fake out.
35:59 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
36:01 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think part of it is the compassion towards Dom would have been exactly wildly unnecessary if she was a really Exactly, I think she believes she's the mole right now.
36:13 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but guess who's putting it in her mind if we won't say somebody somebody around somebody in proximity
36:30 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And as you say, when she's in the sick bay with empire, she says that she's hearing
36:39 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_02]: lots of cheap boots in the corridor, which I was like, I guess the foundation really isn't doing so well if there can only issue cheap boots to their security.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the second foundation.
36:50 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They're less about the glitz and glimer or more about the other.
36:52 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, this is the first foundation.
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, okay, yeah, you're right.
36:56 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the guards of the first foundation.
36:57 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, those are the guards of the first foundation.
36:59 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And it'll why would she try to take Don with her?
37:04 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, of course, don't explain that, look, I can't even walk, but I love his line.
37:09 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Even sitting up is not a bad, last stand, and Peter says, goodbye, Empire, do I bow, and tosses?
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_02]: No, you run!
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Which I enjoyed that very much.
37:21 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's clues both ways, right?
37:23 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's that whole Maggie going, I love beta, right?
37:27 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That I think it's a clue that she was the mule.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot to say.
37:31 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It can be a clue that she's not the mule.
37:33 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I can go.
37:35 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: There's ways you can argue both ways, but I am going to firmly sit in the bid as not to be okay.
37:43 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I just find there's too much of a personality shift.
37:46 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
37:47 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_02]: at certain points, and in our final thoughts of whatever I can heart back to in earlier thing going on in one of the episodes that seems to eliminate.
37:59 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: possibility of her being the meal, but now you could argue like she does change minds pretty much everywhere she goes, right?
38:05 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not to this extent.
38:08 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, but I mean like, you know, she wins people over pretty easily.
38:11 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was trying to say, I know, I know, they've tried to hype that up.
38:15 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_02]: They've tried to hype up the fact that she started from quote-unquote little beginnings, et cetera, et cetera, but, um, no, not the beginning of being
38:27 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Baby sibling to you.
38:29 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we did see that flashback with a girl.
38:32 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, didn't we just?
38:34 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
38:34 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, this is the injection that I've, or the concern that I've had throughout, when a major plot line includes the ability to do mental manipulation.
38:46 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
38:46 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it becomes very hard to decide is this really real or is this what I'm supposed to think is real?
38:58 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_02]: no i i think the reason why they're doing it is to fake out the book readers i don't feel fake out i just feel frustrated no and actually it's there's a little bit in the book where for three nanoseconds
39:16 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Thorin does actually believe that it is the meal.
39:19 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
39:20 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
39:20 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_02]: But in completely different circumstances, nothing like what we've seen at all.
39:23 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe they were kind of parking back to that or something.
39:26 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_02]: But no, Ben, we hadn't read the books for 10 years and thought, oh, yeah, I guess that did happen, didn't it?
39:32 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
39:33 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really curious where they're going to read this spotlight.
39:36 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get to the rest of the confrontation here.
39:39 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The Gail and the Mule go mind to mind in a mental battle where she finally bests him, slitting his throat in both mind and reality.
39:46 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_00]: When the Mule dies, Gail realizes that something is wrong and he wasn't the Mule all along.
39:51 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Beta walks in and declares herself to be the Mule, taking control of the situation, making preacher shoot Gail, who's never known, so it's love.
40:00 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And telling Gail, she will be converting her now.
40:03 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_00]: but when Magnifico starts playing beat as thrown off as Gell has tampered with the busy sonor.
40:10 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_02]: What I actually heard was, um, they had altered Maggie's programming.
40:17 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not that they tampered with the busy sonor.
40:20 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I thought.
40:21 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought they can.
40:22 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_02]: She says we've we've messed with your balladier.
40:26 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_02]: She says the balladier.
40:28 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're right.
40:29 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
40:29 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
40:29 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's let's issue a correction before we get only you've met in here.
40:33 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So they mess with Maggie or did they or did they?
40:39 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, layers upon layers upon layers, right?
40:41 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so I'm so deep in this now.
40:43 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I need season four right now.
40:45 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm telling you, if they're going to be this... Exactly.
40:48 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's intriguing about it all.
40:50 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't make us wait for two years.
40:51 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I do think this would have been an amazing episode nine.
40:57 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
40:57 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
40:58 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have like to see a little bit more closure.
41:00 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:01 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:03 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:03 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:04 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:05 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:05 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:06 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:07 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:08 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:09 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:11 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:12 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:13 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:14 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:15 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a question.
41:17 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:20 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:21 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a question.
41:24 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_02]: In the team, in Bar's private bathroom.
41:27 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, my first thought was, oh my God, I hope they took care of the body already.
41:31 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, yeah.
41:34 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It really conjured up on unfortunate memories when they mentioned that.
41:39 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's, I think that was a good way to handle it.
41:44 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so too.
41:45 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know?
41:46 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I do, I do like the way that they had the mental struggle.
41:52 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_02]: the meal on gale.
41:53 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that carried on too long.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it was overly violent.
41:56 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, slitting the throat is kind of gross, but I suppose she had a reasons.
42:03 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_00]: This was actually an adaptation issue for the Wheel of Time is that the magic system of Wheel of Time does not require you to move your hands at all, to do any motions.
42:13 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You can
42:21 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_00]: where it's two women standing there looking at each other.
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Which just doesn't look over in a visual media.
42:28 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:28 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And if, and there's actually a line that says, if one couldn't channel the power and couldn't see it, they would just see two women staring at each other looking very serious.
42:37 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:38 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And intense and sometimes strange in pain, probably.
42:42 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:43 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's,
42:44 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_00]: that's a challenge in visual medium.
42:47 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So they added the choking, they added the throat slidding, but I do agree with you.
42:53 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that this was a really good mental battle here.
42:56 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And the whole choking theme for Gail started in the very first episode.
43:01 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_02]: His continued on throughout.
43:03 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So that the theme of choking the theme of drowning, sometimes together, sometimes separately.
43:13 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: into a strength, right, because that strength is her power.
43:16 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
43:16 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_02]: That helps her get her into the future looking and so forth.
43:21 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I love when she says you are still back on Rossum wondering why your parents love that baby more than you.
43:28 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll just say here is a subtext notice that she says that baby not, you know, your sister or your brother or whatever.
43:35 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
43:36 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting.
43:39 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And so again, pulling upon this strength of community, you know, your weakness is that your parents didn't love you, and we're really horrible to you, and so.
43:52 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_02]: ever since then you have had to make sure that everybody who follows you loves you.
43:57 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little salt in the room from Gale.
43:59 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I'm going to defeat you and also your parents.
44:03 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're stuck too.
44:04 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
44:07 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's your ultimate weakness.
44:09 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas again, community was your strength.
44:13 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet you Gale and Pritch have had a fight where she goes, you're just like your father.
44:22 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But the whole thing about pretty shooting guilt when she's trying to escape, I mean, what was that in it of, I don't know.
44:30 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was, you know, she'd have the legs, make her, make her get down.
44:33 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was more of a stun blast anyway, it didn't seem to do much damage to her.
44:37 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_02]: She was bleeding.
44:38 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I mean, it was, it was more of a warning shot.
44:42 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it couldn't have demonstrated that much given, Yes, she ran away.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Her subsequent behaviors.
44:48 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess it was just intended to cause pain, which I have to think as a distraction for the kind of mental concentration you need to do.
44:55 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_02]: and do an e-mintel chin against.
44:58 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I did really like the heartbreak on Gell's face about the actor really sold it when she hears him go, I've never felt such a love.
45:06 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
45:07 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That was that was great acting there, you know, she was she was really selling the The two of them.
45:13 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I lost you, you know, and she had just verified that she was the one He loved the most and then it's not just I love her more now.
45:20 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's I've never felt That's such love.
45:23 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Which you know, I think has to be true because it's completely artificial.
45:27 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
45:28 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So why not make it in overwhelming love.
45:30 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_02]: You kind of have to in order to overcome a lifetime of, you know,
45:36 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_02]: independent feelings that are going to take you in a very different direction from what is desired by the one who's imposing it on you.
45:44 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, they give us an image of the same drowning sequence with this time.
45:47 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a daughter instead of this face of the mule that was supposed to be them.
45:52 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Y'all the pirate mule, I guess we can call him.
45:56 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The Pule.
45:57 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_02]: The Pule.
45:59 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He can call you your
46:06 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just gonna say, I just don't buy it.
46:07 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't buy it.
46:08 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_00]: This whole thing, this whole, you know, switch em' a row.
46:12 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:13 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the pirate meal was not the real meal, but it's, it's, you and I figured that from almost the very beginning, didn't we?
46:20 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We did have help from Isaac Asimov.
46:22 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, come on.
46:24 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not giving us too much credit for that one.
46:27 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
46:28 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, onto the library.
46:29 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Gale narrowly escapes the station and Harry asks again for a body.
46:34 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Gale confesses that the human Harry is dead and leaves vault Harry behind.
46:38 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, on the orders of Demerzel, Ambassador Quint takes Kale's 9th proof of folding to the library.
46:45 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The librarian welcomes her to the hiding place of the second foundation.
46:48 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, what does Prima have like a welcoming bit where he like, you know, tips has had a little bit.
46:56 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_02]: That brought tears to my eyes, John.
46:59 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
46:59 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_02]: It absolutely did because suddenly I'm back in the books again.
47:03 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in familiar territory.
47:07 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_02]: This character is a much admired and respected and trustworthy character.
47:12 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And those are kind of thin on the ground in this series.
47:15 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like no, it is.
47:16 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Say right up front.
47:17 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_02]: If they ruin this character, I will have words.
47:21 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He gets converted episode one of season four.
47:23 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:25 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, don't tell me.
47:26 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I, the whole thing about, you know, she's got a blaster wounded or torso and she runs down the quarter and, you know, breaks a window and goes down on top of the thing that she, that's convenient, shield that she just happened to pry from the wall.
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, that was silly.
47:49 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think there's just going to be a level of John Wick.
47:53 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: kill bill action in these kinds of shows because they need to sell it and they need something for the trailer.
47:58 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I mean I do remember that image from the trailer from from the you know yeah the trailer I guess it must have been.
48:08 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know I found fault Harry a little you know a little deserving of sympathy and compassion here.
48:17 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but Gayle tells him right up front like I can't yeah, she was totally dupped him though.
48:24 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she did very very Oh, no, what what she said is you lied to me and she responds you heard what you wanted to hear I don't know he doesn't have any glands anymore.
48:36 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you wanted to hear anything So I didn't have time to go back to do a a relicent to their conversation to know how true that was but
48:48 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Do recall that the minute that she and Harry first walked out of the vault and Pritch was coming up, she quickly sends him a mental message saying he doesn't know how his dead don't tell him.
48:59 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
49:00 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So she clearly knew what she was doing.
49:04 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But for whatever reason, well, she can't tell him that because if she does, he might not cooperate and she really needs his cooperation.
49:12 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
49:13 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, ends and means I suppose.
49:18 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But his line the vault is a tomb.
49:21 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I sit and stare at black walls made of my own remains and wander like a ghost It does sound like an unfortunate existence.
49:30 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I mean, remember way back.
49:34 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was season one that we saw You know flesh Harry in
49:41 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_02]: The dimensional space and not knowing where he was or what was going on or whatever, and at one point he screams at Gale, you know I was inside the whatever it was the knife or whatever, you know, so he's really gone from one horrible experience to another Well, then
50:06 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so and this kind of goes back to the question you asked me the previous recording episode, you know, what I'd rather would I rather be able to be a robot and have all dollars or would I would it be a human to be content?
50:22 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And now that we compare,
50:24 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Fleshy Harry's end with Voltares and I think that's a big reason why my answer was no, I don't want all knowledge Well to be clear as if you wanted to be a an AI campaign Yeah, I think that guy because I think I'd choose to be a robot overall of this world, right?
50:41 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You could you could get it all then you could experience it all Not me all right You know all down the court for you Yeah, well, somebody needs to huh
50:54 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody's got to occupy the moon.
50:55 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
50:56 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say I absolutely adore Quince Polatsu pants?
51:01 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, recently discovered Polatsu pants.
51:04 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I love them and I've gotten several pairs for myself.
51:06 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So she walks, walks into the library and her Polatsu pants are going to switch, switch, switch, etc.
51:11 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can be the next foundation ambassador.
51:14 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_02]: This is cool.
51:14 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool, folks.
51:16 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd rather be the next librarian.
51:17 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_00]: there you go.
51:18 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's a question for you was you had to make a little earlier in the season.
51:22 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give you some Internet points.
51:23 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That the librarian was part of the second foundation.
51:27 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that she was or that she was led in on this?
51:31 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I think she wasn't very early on because otherwise I don't think Gayle would have chosen her right as a means of connecting empire to the second foundation.
51:44 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right and
51:46 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I also think she wouldn't know that they're there right now.
51:48 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: She was just not be told.
51:51 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Who would not know the library would not know that the second one would not be told that the second Foundation was there right if she was not second foundation already exactly exactly.
51:59 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That just critical ever it's it.
52:03 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
52:03 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think you're right.
52:04 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So internet points to you.
52:06 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
52:07 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
52:07 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to spend the month?
52:11 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know what's on offer.
52:15 --> 52:17 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have much, but we do have bragging rights.
52:18 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, bragging rights.
52:20 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Those are always fun.
52:22 --> 52:22 [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
52:22 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You can get a severance waffle party.
52:28 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you- I don't think you-
52:55 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel belly for a role in Harry.
52:57 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I did really like that shot, though, of gal hyperspace.
53:00 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't that spectacular?
53:01 --> 53:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That was spectacular.
53:04 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and by the way, I just remembered something further now.
53:07 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm finding myself beginning to wonder if the librarian is in fact a robot, too.
53:15 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Just because of the way she walks and talks and her demeanor is very still.
53:23 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
53:24 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I know you got to have some kind of robotic something you're either into a library of even human size, never mind, a library that's on Dranger.
53:33 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_02]: But we'll see, we won't see robots in every corner, but we'll see a few robots on a specific not a corner by the sphere.
53:41 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell us about that.
53:43 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The brazenhead sparks the life of transmitting a signal across the universe to the moon of Earth.
53:48 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Their colleague receives the signal noting that another robot is seeking a clasp.
53:55 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_00]: She says that all the pieces are in place.
53:57 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We close on a lunar earth rise.
54:02 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this dialogue was frustratingly intriguing.
54:07 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
54:09 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_02]: All of these little teases, you know.
54:14 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And you said something about, you think Demerzel sent out a last blue light from her eye.
54:21 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I said that.
54:24 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Did I say that somebody said that and I think you're the one I'm talking about it.
54:28 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I should be the other when you're talking about it Right exactly.
54:31 --> 54:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't I don't think I said that I she's lying in the puddle of goo We were talking about oh, no no more dimmer though and that's when you said well I'm not sure because she was there was a signal that came out of oh I think I did say this.
54:46 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I did say I see I'm to I can't remember all the things
54:50 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
54:50 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Your father of two young kids.
54:52 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
54:52 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't be responsible for all the things that I said.
54:55 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Or the things that you forgot that you said.
54:57 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
54:58 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I'm trying to decide if that was the moment that actually gave the
55:15 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_02]: and start broadcasting out.
55:17 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not quite sure that's it because we're told that Cali says perhaps someone is seeking to emboil us in the struggle.
55:28 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_02]: They say, oh, we're receiving, no, that's what it is.
55:31 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We're receiving a signal for a hand class from Trantor.
55:39 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's there's two robots here.
55:41 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's the companion robot to colleague.
55:44 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, saying this and call us as perhaps someone is seeking to in world us in struggle.
55:50 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And the other being responds, someone must have succeeded.
55:53 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's pretty good.
55:55 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Can't live with less than all the pieces are in place.
55:59 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then we get that earth rise.
56:01 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think it's possible that Deborah's will woke up the the
56:09 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_00]: that chip was the chip that was controlling her was in her neck.
56:12 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
56:13 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Her neck's gone.
56:14 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's melted now.
56:15 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He's on.
56:16 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:17 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And now cheers.
56:17 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So in her last moment, she was free.
56:20 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
56:20 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So she was able to wake up that, you know, maybe maybe that's her last act.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we don't see demos all again.
56:26 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope we see you again.
56:28 --> 56:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I do too.
56:29 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Just be such a because we still have leftover plans, my friend.
56:34 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:34 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We still have Dawn.
56:35 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Laura Burns just tired of playing the character though.
56:37 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, that's certainly a possibility.
56:40 --> 56:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, that, let me golly holding your hands in that position for six years now.
56:46 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
56:47 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:48 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_02]: God, it'd be tiring.
56:50 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_02]: But darkness is, I think, set up to have some kind of competition.
56:56 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so too.
56:57 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_02]: From
57:04 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_02]: love their image of who the other was, right?
57:07 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And this dawn is now going to be old enough to be day, right?
57:10 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
57:11 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And the darkness will feel betrayed that dawn allied with the second foundation and dawn has been absolutely appalled by all the behaviors of darkness.
57:23 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And he hasn't even seen all the carnage and the clulinatorium and all the rest of it.
57:29 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So,
57:30 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're going to, you know, embrace and shake hands.
57:34 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to try to ignore it.
57:35 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah.
57:36 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
57:37 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what?
57:38 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt an episode nine, dusk, had a tragic depth of character about him.
57:44 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm sorry, darkness is just like a mad evil caricature with ghastly violent urges.
57:51 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know.
57:52 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose some people would enjoy that kind of over the topness.
57:55 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's going to tamp back down, though.
57:59 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_00]: What of the things that we see on these Clions is that they have this temper in them?
58:04 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And every now and then the temper awakens and then they return to a sense of normalcy.
58:09 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's the worst time we ever saw that, right?
58:11 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, I hope, I devoutly hope.
58:15 --> 58:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it's the worst time we ever saw it, but it's not the only time we ever seen it.
58:19 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the way that the day from last season, blew up new termine.
58:24 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, right, right, right, right, and I'm wondering too, you know, from the previous episode when he blows up three planets, there is not as much of a visceral reaction from the audience.
58:39 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So this was visceral.
58:42 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_02]: They really got visceral with this one and maybe that was part of the reason for doing it that way.
58:46 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:47 --> 58:50 [SPEAKER_02]: But I got to say, I really wish that they had taken
58:54 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And three minutes from Darkness's brutal punch-up with day, not to mention the melting down of a baby in Demersault, to give us the six minutes we needed between the take-down of bed emule, which I still don't believe in.
59:09 --> 59:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And Gale's Frantic Departure.
59:10 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
59:12 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_02]: There is a chunk there that a lot of people have a lot of explaining to do.
59:20 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we might see it next season or they might just yada yada pass that night.
59:24 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be okay with other of them honestly No, if they yada yada pass that I will be very disappointed.
59:28 --> 59:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's good storytelling and Yeah, they were having a lot of fun spewing their fake blood and guts around, but um I really thought oh my gosh, they take drop they cut the wrong scene Because continuity like
59:47 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And what, what, is she not leading it why is she running away with, you know, I can make up all kinds of reasons why the most logical one being as soon as she realized there was still another meal around, she booked it.
59:59 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I thought that I didn't actually have a problem with her being a guy, but I thought it was just, she weakened her enough to get her out of her head, but that's all she could do.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: She can't do that alone.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: She can't face all of it against this meal alone.
01:00:13 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so maybe that was it, but I just, you know, isn't Pritch going to yell after her now that he's been released from supposedly the control.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but she's gay, I'll see park horrors.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:00:25 --> 01:00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She goes.
01:00:25 --> 01:00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I do think she's a more powerful mental health than the rest of them other than them.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know she's.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: She could just go to sleep, everybody.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's another possibility.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she very much could have done that.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't need them to tell me exactly how she got out of there.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I was actually kind of glad we skipped over that.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The logistics would a board be.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But it needn't be logistics.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:55 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they could have gone through some of the same discussion we're doing here where you know, Pitch is all set to, all right, let's go back and do the gale suddenly says no, I am out of here.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:00:57 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just too abrupt for me.
01:00:59 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Just was too abrupt.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: A great a disagree.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, indeed, as we often have.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_02]: very amicably.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Another reason why I don't believe the bed it can be the meal is because in the previous episodes, when they were escaping the vaults and the null field was extending, she got really scrambled by that.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And they do show us one shot of Maggie also struggling on the ground in the null field trying to get out.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So there was a lot of confusion and constication and so forth.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And this was before we saw Maggie again.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:44 [SPEAKER_02]: The sick computer, the sick baby computer confirmed that she was quite damaged.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And she had to be carried out of the sick bay,
01:01:49 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I don't, I don't know who could have turned Rando that at that point.
01:01:56 --> 01:01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's probably right.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I would, here's, here's my argument against him is, uh, very well could have turned Rando before that, right?
01:02:06 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Very well could have turned him quietly.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Beta could have?
01:02:09 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I look, I'm just making the argument that you four made to be in the mule and I don't believe it either.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think beta could, they were alone for a while.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: She could have turned him quietly and then, you know, when, when push comes to shove, he defends her.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I, yeah, but it's weak.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It's weak.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_02]: She shows no mule like tendencies all the way up to that point as far as I'm concerned.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't know.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:38 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like Kale is to dimmer Zell as dimmer Zell's to humans in some fashion and again the question is Kale robot They gave her that sort of metallic kind of look underneath the robe that she was wearing So maybe we are supposed to interpret that look look at a phone from ten years ago and look at your phone now I think she's just like a next-gen robot, right?
01:03:01 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Gamer Zell is an ancient robot.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:05 [SPEAKER_00]: She is one of the first
01:03:06 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm sure that Kale, somebody who can manufacture an indestructible primary Indian, it's probably made of sturdier stuff than Demer's, I was.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she kind of has to be.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was her companion robot, one of the ones who wanted Harry to have skin in the game, and that was why his life had extended.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I could do the work on Ignis until Colle came to take him through the portal.
01:03:39 --> 01:03:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I still want to know where that portal led, maybe it's just supposed to be a metaphor for Dyson.
01:03:43 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I think that he led back to the moon.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And that portal took them to the robots, and I think Harry's there right now.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's dead.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would love for that to be interesting.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not much time as fast, right?
01:03:56 --> 01:03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that, uh... Well, that's true.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think much time has passed since then.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, there's a much loved role, no body, no death.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I don't think that was just like a metaphor.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was actually just a portable to the moon.
01:04:12 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, well, that's interesting.
01:04:14 --> 01:04:15 [SPEAKER_02]: That's really interesting.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he could function as both, right?
01:04:17 --> 01:04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, is that's a metaphor for his death, but he's not dying.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you take Harry Seldon off the board in this whole show.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_02]: yeah well in that case we still have at least one i mean baltaria's kind of you know yeah it's true that's true it's good just knows what he's going to do now because i think in terms of you know coming out of the end of each cell and crisis is kind of old hat now and yeah probably by the way side you know once the whole thing is probably in ruins yep
01:04:48 --> 01:04:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I really had a lot of hopes for this final episode, and maybe that was unrealistic to me.
01:04:52 --> 01:05:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But wanting to have enough threads tied up, but still enough questions to lead us on in the future, but it really felt chaotic to me.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And I suppose part of that is my whole reaction to how much time was wasted on darknesses and seeing vengeance, which was bloody violent disturbing as far as I'm concerned.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I was honestly fine with the whole darkness.
01:05:17 --> 01:05:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you were.
01:05:18 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You are more sensitive to Gor than I am.
01:05:21 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't love it.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I won't watch like a body horror movie.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I won't watch like a sobbed.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:05:27 --> 01:05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I shouldn't.
01:05:28 --> 01:05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:05:29 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But if it's if it's incidental to the what's happening, I think I'm all right with it.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes unless there's a needle in them, I'm not fine with it.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_02]: We all have our, we'll have our tender points that I will close my eyes for a second.
01:05:43 --> 01:05:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, anyway, my point is, my point is, I was okay with it.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that the Cleon parts of this episode were the strongest.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I know.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I know.
01:05:56 --> 01:06:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, at some point, I remember I had to have been you again, that being eaten was a concept that was coming up.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And in any case, it seems to me that all three Cleans had this experience, you know, dusk eating the sacrificial lamb that kind of was what he was about to be, day being eaten by the caterpillars and Dawn's spacesuit eating his legs.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, there's sort of this meta, you know, they're all being constructed in some ways, and eating seems to be a big thing.
01:06:32 --> 01:06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought about that there.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: There was the very hunger caterpillar.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They're all long as treville and
01:06:39 --> 01:06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Don is still out there though.
01:06:40 --> 01:06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's still out there.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's still out there.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Hang in the right for next season.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'm very glad that they left that.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And what's some you're going to do with Don?
01:06:49 --> 01:06:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't think if the you'll try to use Don as a bargaining chip does gives a crap, right?
01:06:55 --> 01:06:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gosh, no.
01:06:56 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's like, no.
01:06:57 --> 01:06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep up.
01:06:58 --> 01:06:58 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
01:06:58 --> 01:06:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Please, have him.
01:06:59 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Get rid of him for me.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I really want to be the only clear on left.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That's unfinished work over there.
01:07:06 --> 01:07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: To me a favor and execute him.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's only ensured that Empire is going to descend into chaos.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Who's, who, who, no, it was the success or, yeah?
01:07:20 --> 01:07:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Demorsel did so much of all the work.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Darkness can't possibly do all the things that you're doing.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So how long before somebody, you know, too many people are going to be a second tired of this tyrant?
01:07:35 --> 01:07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:41 [SPEAKER_02]: and rise up in murdering, you know, nanites and orabris that notwithstanding.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure he puts the orabris with that gun.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure the nanites can only keep up so well, right?
01:07:47 --> 01:07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like eventually, eventually there's not gonna be enough nanites to, you know, if you disintegrate a body, you're all done.
01:07:53 --> 01:08:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and, you know, maybe the nanite makers are gonna say, we're done, we're out of here, and maybe there will also be some assistance from an uprising led by songbird and ocean glass.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, that would be interesting.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I kind of like to see that.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I really hope we do see more of my kitchen.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting because every season we've had to do a big jump to the next season, right?
01:08:19 --> 01:08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think we're gonna do that at this time.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this time we're gonna pick up right where we left off or maybe a few months after.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're right.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure how else we can do it.
01:08:28 --> 01:08:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I imagine, I mean,
01:08:31 --> 01:08:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Does Gale know where the second foundation is currently located because she specifically said don't she does she does not think she does now, so she joined she may join with you know touring and a cleanse to beta and if you are the people to see if they can find where the second foundation is right.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know maybe they'll take.
01:08:55 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking about a character from the third book that you are fond of.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they'll take that arc and really give that to Gail.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:05 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a distinct possibility, isn't it?
01:09:05 --> 01:09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:09:06 --> 01:09:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you have yet to see the ancestor of that character.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:09:17 --> 01:09:20 [SPEAKER_02]: The two ancestors producing the one who produces that character.
01:09:21 --> 01:09:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would make a lot of sense.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, because that does seem to be the sort of thing you're doing.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:09:29 --> 01:09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
01:09:29 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we did it.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We did it Maryland.
01:09:32 --> 01:09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: We did the whole season again.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back next week for a season wrap up.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll read all feedback that you said in.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So send that in quickly because I'm not sure when we're going to be able to record this.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Just send it in quickly.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Empire at thelorhounds.com if you want to chat with us.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:48 [SPEAKER_00]: If you already sent it in, I have it.
01:09:48 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry about it, but definitely send in an email.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be taking discord feedback just emails.
01:09:54 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll do that.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll do a book spoiler section and we'll talk before the book spoiler section.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll make sure that's at the end.
01:10:01 --> 01:10:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about, you know, our hopes for next season.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Our hopes for what's going on.
01:10:05 --> 01:10:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:10:06 --> 01:10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out all the other stuff on the network.
01:10:09 --> 01:10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is just about to start their second season.
01:10:12 --> 01:10:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They just did another mail bag.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They are having a great time over there on a music and psychology talks.
01:10:18 --> 01:10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And radioactive ramblings Aaron is currently covering peacemaker with Alicia and they are having a great
01:10:24 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: and then in December radioactive ramlings we'll be doing fallout season two.
01:10:28 --> 01:10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You can check out Wolchift Dust and properly, sorry, Wolchift Dust and the Star Wars at the time of my podcast, which I am, is a mouthful.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear Alicia, do some breakdowns of doing in Star Wars.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You can check out properly how I would move your review, finishing up their bacon rap season.
01:10:43 --> 01:10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They have in a great time with that.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And you go listen to the Rings and Rituals.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: When it comes, which probably won't be until,
01:10:53 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, a couple months before the beginning of season three, but if you're missing Marilyn's voice, get on over there.
01:10:59 --> 01:11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Head on over.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and if if you really are missing me, then David and I just recording of an episode for Alien Earth.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So I believe it's a bonus episode for subscribers, by the way.
01:11:13 --> 01:11:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is the case.
01:11:14 --> 01:11:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is the case.
01:11:16 --> 01:11:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah David asked me if he'd asked me before Saturday if I was going to, you know, record an episode of Alien Earth, I'd say, what?
01:11:24 --> 01:11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I know when he first suggested that I was like, you're going to ask Marilyn to cover Ali and with you, it seems a little odd, but I understood once he explained it What do you ask me to cover with Peter Pan?
01:11:35 --> 01:11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
01:11:36 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And he asked me about in less than an hour before he sat down to record it.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really funny.
01:11:42 --> 01:11:43 [SPEAKER_02]: It was it was
01:11:44 --> 01:11:52 [SPEAKER_02]: a lovely afternoon, but you know, he got to be flexible, you know, and I had a great time by the seat of our pants over here, we have in a great time.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So as you said, David is covering Alien Earth with a slew of guests, including you, we just launched a season pass for it.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's you know, it's 10 bucks you get all the ad for your podcast for Alien Earth.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And all the bonus content, like that conversation about Peter Pan and others, just one time fee, you never have to pay for it again, or you could become a Patron Supercast subscriber to get all of our ad-free content and bonus content.
01:12:19 --> 01:12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know David's going to want me to mention the season pass, he gets very excited about season passes.
01:12:25 --> 01:12:28 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think it makes sense, I'm glad that there's a season pass.
01:12:33 --> 01:12:37 [SPEAKER_00]: have a recurring charge on their credit card because I know a lot of people would like to avoid those.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: But also, they might not come in to, you know, what's the lower hands, but they say, oh, right, podcast on Alien Earth, then, you know, they get to know who we are.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:48 [SPEAKER_02]: They say, oh, well, maybe I'll check out the whole.
01:12:49 --> 01:12:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:12:49 --> 01:12:53 [SPEAKER_02]: The whole menu, which has a lot of very tasty things on it.
01:12:53 --> 01:12:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you wanted to support us, there are a lot of ways to do it.
01:12:58 --> 01:13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just said, one way is by being a discord server booster, and I want to thank those people, Aaron K, Jelloo, the thriller,
01:13:05 --> 01:13:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Doves 71, Athena A. Lestu, Nancy M. Ghost of Partition, Radioactive Richard and Adrienne.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And our lore masters are Patreon and Supercast subscribers top tier are Samarshan, Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. S. C. Peter O'H.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Adam S. Nancy M. Doves 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Matthew M. Sarah M. Andreby.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Huang Yu, that I generate Bob, Nathan T. Alex B. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Deli V, Mother Ship 61 Niles, Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B. Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Steven N, Julia F, Kali S, Illmariel, Forward slash Tim, Paul K, Bobby C, Jessica H, Red Zippy, and the TCS, our newest lore master,
01:13:58 --> 01:14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks everyone for all your support.
01:14:00 --> 01:14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really a huge help.
01:14:02 --> 01:14:09 [SPEAKER_02]: It sure is, and thank you, NRLs for putting a question rack at the end of your name so that John can grab a breath and that delightfully long list of wonderful people.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I always just take it as an opportunity.
01:14:12 --> 01:14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: NRLs.
01:14:13 --> 01:14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:14:13 --> 01:14:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
01:14:14 --> 01:14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, everybody.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Have a good night and we will see you for our season wrap up next week.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Can't wait.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Good night folks.
01:14:24 --> 01:14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: The Lower Hound's podcast is produced in published by The Lower Hounds.
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01:14:44 --> 01:14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.