House of the Dragon - S01E03-04 - Second of His Name & King of the Narrow Sea

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[00:00:49] May the fourth be with you all all month and beyond.

[00:01:18] Welcome to the House of the Hounds where the Lorehounds your guides to the Dance of the Dragons.

[00:01:23] I'm John and I'm David and this is our coverage for season one episodes three and four titled

[00:01:30] second of his name and king of the narrow seas of the HBO Max original series House of the Dragon.

[00:01:37] Today we'll be giving our hot takes before diving into a deeper discussion of these

[00:01:41] episodes then we'll be answering some ravens from listeners. Oh I see what you did there

[00:01:47] on on theme send your ravens to

[00:01:52] hotd hotd at thelorehounds.com or head over to our contact page on our website and there is a

[00:02:01] form you can fill out that will send a raven for you or you can leave us a voicemail and we

[00:02:06] can drop that right into the podcast. Support the community on Supercast or Patreon join

[00:02:12] the conversation on the discord and take a listen to our affiliate podcast. You can find links for

[00:02:17] everything in the show notes. John I think people are in for a little treat after the credits of

[00:02:25] this episode or were you saving that for letter. Oops I forgot to load it up but I can't.

[00:02:31] That's okay you can drop it in post. Yeah yeah yeah I know I I I remembered today

[00:02:38] something that was buried in my memory deep deep within the recesses in the folds of your

[00:02:42] mind. Prior to my fan bankruptcy I had written a song because I was so emotionally hit by the

[00:02:51] meeting of John Snow and Sansa in the late seasons of Game of Thrones that I was like I'm gonna write

[00:02:58] a song about this because at that time I was I had a band I was I was trying to do the

[00:03:02] singer-songwriter thing and I wrote this whole song that didn't explicitly say like this is about

[00:03:07] John Snow and Sansa but it was like sort of inspired by it and there are there are little

[00:03:11] clues that it's a Game of Thrones song and you and Alicia kind of convinced me to release it at the

[00:03:17] end of this podcast so and I'll put it as a download for Lore Fiend and Loremaster patrons as well.

[00:03:24] I love it. It was very funny to hear your younger self singing. I was 22 when I recorded it yeah

[00:03:31] eight years ago. It's pretty wild. I think it's I think it's great I think it's a fun little

[00:03:37] thing so stick around to the end of the end of the podcast to post credits post credits.

[00:03:45] Something else that you have been more recently hard at work on is our new show guide for House of

[00:03:54] the Dragon. Oh yeah using the Notion platform I don't know if you know listeners are aware of this

[00:03:59] it's a wacky database web I don't know it's an amazing tool. I love it and we've done

[00:04:04] show guides for True Detective and for Shogun and we've also got our show tracker on it I'm using it

[00:04:13] to track my movies and rank my scores and everything. I used it last year for my top 10. It calculated

[00:04:19] my top 10 for me and everything. Anyway on that you and Brian 8063 and Aaron have made this

[00:04:30] incredible resource that if you want to get your bearings for season one and not be spoiled by any

[00:04:38] of the other information or god I go some of these wiki fandom pages and I can't even scroll the page

[00:04:45] because there's so many freaking ads. This has a character guide a location bestiary I can look

[00:04:52] up information about the dragons I can see all of Renea's sons and I can link and

[00:04:59] click to their pages. I can look on my phone and scroll as I'm watching an episode of it who's that guy

[00:05:06] and then I'm like oh there's that person okay okay now I know who that is. It's an amazing resource

[00:05:10] and I'm just so proud of the fact that you guys have it looks great it just looks great.

[00:05:16] I'm proud of it too and I'm glad to do it and don't forget that it's a subscriber

[00:05:22] benefit but we have a new way to be a subscriber right now instead of doing a monthly

[00:05:27] recurring subscription you can alternatively join the hot D season pass which means that you give us

[00:05:34] 10 bucks we give you everything hot D from season one and two and you know all our podcasts plus

[00:05:40] the show guide. Right ad-free early access and that's it 10 bucks and you're done. Yep and you're

[00:05:47] not subscribed or whatever and every thing as they say what's that I said forever and ever

[00:05:52] amen as they say. Hey so I think that's enough salesmanship for I think so we're only five minutes

[00:05:58] in we're okay that's okay anyway we don't like to be too salesy but we do have some cool benefits

[00:06:04] that we just want to let you know about so I'm just jazzed up about the season pass yes so

[00:06:08] about the show guide rather I mean I'm just about the season pass I'm glad that we have

[00:06:12] supercast or we're just about it all anyway hot D hot to the dragon what's your hot D take?

[00:06:17] So for episode three I was mixed in my reactions to it and then episode four

[00:06:29] it was like oh yeah this is the show this is where it's happening. Episode four is a baller. Totally

[00:06:35] three was a little bit like hey let's go film Renfair. No I liked it I liked it I'll defend

[00:06:42] it but you go ahead. Yeah it just I don't know something was off in the post production the details

[00:06:49] felt very too I don't know it just it didn't feel there was a graininess that's there was something

[00:06:56] that was lacking in the authenticity of all of the the stuff when they were out in the Kingswood

[00:07:01] the stuff with the crab eater and the fight and I remember last year when it came out was

[00:07:08] last year two years ago good lord what happened two years ago. Dilation time dilation that everybody

[00:07:15] we were all kind of losing our minds they're like oh my god they're like getting straight into this

[00:07:18] action we're seeing dragons fight we're seeing the crab eater dude you know we thought he was

[00:07:23] going to be a ongoing you know multiple episode protagonist noob and it was a real cool kind

[00:07:32] of episode three but yeah there was just there were parts of it that were I don't know just kind

[00:07:39] of a little campy for me that and I'm not saying I'm not knocking it as an episode I'm just saying

[00:07:43] on a relative scale I enjoyed half of the episode less than I did the other half of the episode

[00:07:49] and then we get to episode four and you're just like okay this is what the show is about

[00:07:55] and these little turns and happenings and events that happen the whole thing stems from this one

[00:08:05] night out on the town kind of and the interweavings and just the way that they're setting up

[00:08:13] the girls and they're the princesses the queen actually I should say and the princess

[00:08:19] and and these slights that are starting to build up the these hurts that are these bruises that are

[00:08:26] are being experienced by them and it's just like okay yeah this is this is what I'm here for

[00:08:34] House of the Dragon 4 episode 4 really really encapsulated it for me yeah what about you

[00:08:41] absolutely yeah I think episode four is a stronger episode for sure though I did really

[00:08:45] like episode three I really like drunk Viserys that was a lot of fun sure just a wacky dude

[00:08:51] we love drunk uncle but busy right yeah he was getting he was in his cups as they say literally

[00:08:58] yeah yeah what a well anyway let's save it for the the I got things to say about that poor man

[00:09:06] but we can save it for when we get into it yeah yeah he's a wacky guy I really do like

[00:09:12] how they're fostering the relationship between Renea and Allison through these episodes but

[00:09:17] especially the second episode and that's episode four yeah second episode to the podcast yeah

[00:09:27] and I think that the reason that this is so strong of an episode see episode four specifically

[00:09:34] is that you really need you need to see all the steps that could have been taken to

[00:09:39] prevent the war that's one thing yeah but you also need to see how it is heartbreaking for

[00:09:45] Allison and Renea to be on opposite sides of this war after growing up best friends and having a lot

[00:09:51] in common yep and just some simple lies fibs you know just don't invade my privacy

[00:10:00] really puts a deep wound in this friendship that's gonna echo through the whole Dance of

[00:10:06] the Dragons I think right right the the the bruises the wounds however you want to

[00:10:14] describe it they they're starting to cut deeper and deeper with each little movement

[00:10:19] and you can like you're saying you can see the unintended weight of words or an action

[00:10:28] or if you if if the other had seen can see the perspective of the other person they would

[00:10:33] totally understand and it would just it'd be fine but they just it keeps adding up and they keep

[00:10:39] getting pushed further and further apart from each other and which which hurts even more

[00:10:45] because these two these two women love each other right their their sisters in a in a greater

[00:10:50] sense than blood sisters could be yeah and chosen you know it's tough it's tough and you see that

[00:10:56] Viserys makes these decisions that you know as they go he could have sidestepped so many of his

[00:11:05] problems like had he married you know I'm not saying he needed to marry her at 12 but had he become

[00:11:11] betrothed to Lena as all of his advisors said yeah I can't believe that we're defending we

[00:11:16] should we should have him marry the 12 year old no but you know what I mean you know what

[00:11:21] I mean I like to patrol the idea that's actually a good way like 14 or 16 or something yeah

[00:11:26] until she was of legal age I think that would have been a reasonable way for him to go about it

[00:11:32] it would have kept the Valerians in check and all that it would have you know made the claim stronger

[00:11:39] if he had had more shortness to himself if he had had more gumption about Reneira's claim

[00:11:46] and really like put her to the front and made sure people knew it and you know other than

[00:11:52] the swearing initially and I think Reneira hits the nail on the head here at some point she says

[00:11:56] to Alison my father didn't name me air he named he took he rebuked Damon right like that's what he did

[00:12:03] it's a really good point it's a really good line yeah and yeah it's it's really tough so

[00:12:10] you know he takes Lena the houses are joined the political alliance is founded and you don't

[00:12:15] really need the second one so Reneira can pick her her spouse and that would have been fine

[00:12:20] and she probably would not have had well we'll save that later but she wouldn't have had as many

[00:12:26] succession issues in her line you know you have if Damon had been allowed to marry her here again

[00:12:33] we're defending father uncle sorry you know but um so if Damon had been able to marry her as he

[00:12:39] requests here maybe she would have had some legitimate children with him and that would have been a

[00:12:44] way to sidestep this whole war but we're seeing all the things be put in place I'll also something

[00:12:50] that I didn't notice on my first watch that I noticed on rewatch is that they're really ceding

[00:12:54] this idea of viscerus's doubt of Reneira okay say more because you know he he does

[00:13:04] eventually settle on I'm gonna I'm gonna defend you his heir in these episodes he does

[00:13:09] but his private doubts to Allison make what happens later even more plausible right yep yep

[00:13:18] and it really does feel like that didn't come out of nowhere now you know right if you're

[00:13:22] in private he's going like I just don't know was this the right choice then maybe he does

[00:13:26] change his mind later got it yeah and and maybe she's uh got a different footing or

[00:13:35] different positioning relative to what's going on so she's not so much Allison that is

[00:13:41] isn't so much willing to take up the opportunity to you know place her son on the throne right

[00:13:50] right well I think that's enough of hot takes but let's get into the actual episode sounds like

[00:13:58] I've in comparison to last episode I thought last episode got very jumbled very quickly because

[00:14:03] we were just jumping around to different topics so instead we've gone by plot line rather than

[00:14:07] character group or whatever so here we go three years of past since episode two in that time

[00:14:14] Damon and Corliss have been locked in a war with the triarchy in the step zones

[00:14:19] right did you enjoy the crab feeders sort of introduction in his grossness

[00:14:25] I did I thought they set up a really interesting antagonists not only for

[00:14:32] a story and you know us as the audience antagonist but for you know the realm and the kingdom

[00:14:39] there were some great scenes I loved seeing the ships passing through the stepstones and the

[00:14:46] catapults of fire you know coming arcing in and dragons flying around all that stuff was great

[00:14:52] I don't know what's happened to me in in my older age I cannot handle

[00:15:01] some of the visceral aspects of it seeing the the crab stuff was a little bit hard for me to

[00:15:07] to watch and but you know I we talked about this a lot last week is that something that is

[00:15:18] a hallmark of the song of ice and fire properties that there is some visceral action be it you know

[00:15:27] nudity be it sex be it violence be it you know child birthing in a way the books can be even more

[00:15:34] violent right I mean there's lady stoneheart never shows up in the game with her own show

[00:15:39] but lady stoneheart do you know about this whole thing trying to remember this is catlin stark

[00:15:44] yes zombification right yeah yeah I remember that and I remember reading and going

[00:15:48] that wtf and then like she never goes it never goes yeah and I just think that this this universe

[00:15:56] is inherently violent and you just got a little bit but uh I will say I really enjoyed oh thank god

[00:16:02] all hell thank the gods for for prince daemon get stepped on immediately very Jurassic Park

[00:16:09] moment stomp it was great yeah it was great good good dragon action good dragon CGI and yep and all

[00:16:16] of that kind of stuff also they set up vaiman to be this sort of unsteady ally right because vaiman

[00:16:26] is like I hate daemon but also I'm gonna write to his brother but also you know in secret and

[00:16:32] all that so they really set up his sort of unsteady nature there yeah and uh yeah I think it

[00:16:40] there's again a lot of work being done in this episode to get us ready for what's coming yeah

[00:16:47] so yeah a good twist feels inevitable right when you go on rewatch and and this this show did a

[00:16:53] great job of setting up the actions of characters episodes in advance yeah and because

[00:16:57] of the way the show works years in advance yep exactly yeah of course viscera gets his first

[00:17:04] male descendant finally from his new queen allison to celebrate their son agon's second name day

[00:17:12] they take all the nobles on a hunting trip yeah this is what I was like okay uh there was there

[00:17:19] was just something in the because the productions the production the carriages are

[00:17:23] going to be the carriages the tents are going to be the tents the costumes are going to be

[00:17:26] the costumes but there's something that they do in the treatment of the in post production

[00:17:33] that kind of gives it a grain or a texture or something and this just felt a little too

[00:17:38] hyper-real and I could kind of see the fact that a bunch of this stuff was just fake

[00:17:43] movie prop stuff and maybe that's what it was that was bothering me I don't know there was

[00:17:47] something that was triggering me in this whole sequence and then there were some wonky cgi

[00:17:52] later so are you troubled by iphone face do you know what I mean by that iphone face this is

[00:17:58] something that the kids say now okay I have an iphone pinky when they're watching that's where

[00:18:04] my pinky is holding the bottom of my phone and it's developing a crook in it yeah yeah yeah oh I

[00:18:10] know the iphone pinky yeah um look at every selfie on my space from when I was growing up and you

[00:18:16] know you have that claw hand that is holding the phone anyway iphone face is something the

[00:18:21] kids say on the tiktok's and whatnot where they say this historical documentary the actors their faces

[00:18:27] look like they've seen an iphone okay like they like they just don't aren't believably from this era

[00:18:36] right okay so they have iphone face I see that always makes me laugh interesting yeah just really

[00:18:43] quickly on the segue of throwbacks to physical ailments holding things when we had our

[00:18:48] Atari and we would have these sort of all night pac-man

[00:18:54] what do you marathons you'd get a little divot in your hand I'm sure it's same with other controllers

[00:18:59] but you would have this deep red divot in the in the just below your thumb there where you held

[00:19:04] the controller for you know four hours straight so nice nice yeah so I will say I really did like

[00:19:13] this whole this whole setup okay I did enjoy a lot of it I'm gonna go to the next bullet point

[00:19:19] because it's kind of the yeah roll on main point of it which is the part but that was my favorite

[00:19:23] which was Raniera rejects the courtship of Jason Lannister and begins to question whether her

[00:19:31] father means to replace hers heir she runs off with Sir Kristen Cole and the two are attacked

[00:19:36] by a boar and greeted by the white heart the symbol of royalty in Westeros before the Targaryens

[00:19:43] so can we just appreciate the actor playing both Jason Lannister and his brother Thailand

[00:19:49] you know is it the same actor I didn't realize okay funny this guy man I don't know what was going

[00:19:55] you know he I think he's playing slightly drunk but he but he's also very sort of cringy slimy

[00:20:04] and it's perfect it is so good it's so light you're just kind of not sure what to make of

[00:20:10] this guy except that he's just you you yeah yeah so so Jason is a really interesting character

[00:20:18] he's played by Jefferson Hall so is his brother Thailand and Thailand is on the small council remember

[00:20:25] Thailand is uh I want to say master of coin I could be wrong wait I have the show guide

[00:20:30] I can find out now show guy I can find the show guide where is the Lannister okay he is

[00:20:36] master of ships okay which is shocking but anyway he's master of ships and Thailand is

[00:20:45] obviously on team green because he's on the the greens council but we don't know what Jason's

[00:20:50] going to do right now as of the end of season one so that's an exciting exciting no faction

[00:20:56] on the show guide if you if you check out there right um but Jason I love the way he's like well

[00:21:02] look you're obviously going to be disinherited so let's not get carried away here with all our I

[00:21:09] you know I have dragons here and dragons there um I could build you a dragon

[00:21:15] pentacastroly rock you'll be fine you'll be fine and everybody who's making a proposal who will

[00:21:23] make a proposal this is a little running ahead a little bit they're talking to her an entirely

[00:21:30] the wrong way about stuff that she cares nothing about exactly she doesn't want uh easy days and

[00:21:40] you know what have you she wants she wants a different quality of life and and they none of them are

[00:21:48] none of them are aware that their um words are just falling on deaf ears that their

[00:21:53] seed is falling on on groundy stonestowny ground right yeah the the suitors are not doing their best

[00:22:04] I will say they're not sending their best in the words of our former president

[00:22:11] yeah and and the way that I mean I'm gonna get there in a second but the way that viscera's

[00:22:17] hears all of the pitches for you know the matches is very funny too

[00:22:22] uh but I want to talk first about her journey Renea's journey with christin coal yeah this is

[00:22:28] the beginning of their their uh trist into the woods into the woods come with me and uh the bore

[00:22:37] I think is a lot of fun this is crazy thing and I like that both of them play a part in killing it

[00:22:43] right right but and and it goes well I was like to say that the bore is a nice call back to

[00:22:50] Robert Baratheon Bobby B yeah do you know about the Bobby B bot no I do not okay in the free folk

[00:22:58] subreddit which is the no rules game of the run subreddit that like freaked out with the game

[00:23:03] of the run finale it's a very funny subreddit okay um they have a Bobby B bot so if you say Bobby B

[00:23:10] it'll it'll automatically reply with a Robert Baratheon quote like God bless Bessie and her tits

[00:23:17] and it'll always be in all caps by the way God bless the internets that is just that is

[00:23:22] bounty your king that's awesome yeah I love Bobby B bot it's very funny but anyway enough of our

[00:23:30] reddit shenanigans um yes I agree that would say a really good call back to Bobby B and um

[00:23:36] but my favorite part of this whole thing is this white heart thing which I guess is not in

[00:23:41] the book okay it's not in the book uh really interesting that Viserys you know poorly kills

[00:23:49] a regular oh my god that whole scene of it was just very yeah it was it really highlighted his

[00:24:00] how he's just not suited to be this that guy right and like he's not going to like destroy the crown

[00:24:11] in a year but he is gonna make it die a slow and painful death right which is the uh the

[00:24:18] manifestation of that is his rot the you know of his body rotting away yeah well that and

[00:24:25] the way that he kind of lets these issues fester like the stepstones and like the issue of succession

[00:24:31] and his relationship with Damon and his relationship with the Valyrians and he just lets so many things

[00:24:36] fester and then they come back to bite him and and not even like he kind of just lives and dies

[00:24:42] and forgets about it but you know his daughter is gonna have to deal with all the aftermath of

[00:24:47] his bad decisions exactly and and it was a great way to contrast this between her and her father

[00:24:56] Reneir and and Viserys with the fact that she sees the the white heart or the white heart reveals

[00:25:03] itself to her and not to him yeah and then so that's that's the definitely signaling to us as

[00:25:10] the audience it's starting to mess with our sense of allegiance who should be the rightful ruler

[00:25:16] and so when when uh when when blows begin to be exchanged you know you can you can say well Reneir

[00:25:23] you know the white heart showed up for Reneir so you know she's got more legit claim in a way

[00:25:28] right there's so little subtle signals that we're supposed to be picking up on yeah so I

[00:25:33] want to dig into that a little bit so she doesn't kill the white heart correct she doesn't even

[00:25:38] go after it now I could read that two ways right like she was meant to see it and she

[00:25:45] respected the power mm-hmm or I think about and again I'm just gonna say this now because

[00:25:51] I'm gonna get into a little bit of late season spoilers because I want to make a comparison

[00:25:55] we are going to you know we said this in the first episode but in case you're just joining

[00:25:58] us this episode we do reference things later in season one but we're not going past that

[00:26:02] because we don't know first of all uh and we're not doing any book spoilers right so anyway

[00:26:08] light spoilers for the end the whole her considering in the last episode should

[00:26:13] I just abdicate to keep peace mm-hmm god I don't remember that very clearly it's a moment it's not

[00:26:19] long I mean we're gonna get there yeah it's this whole thing of you know should I just let

[00:26:24] Agan have the crown so that we don't have an all out war here right right and I think that might

[00:26:31] be what this is alluding to too right like it's I respect the institution I respect duty I respect

[00:26:38] what this means to the realm right and she or is you know Torin Naga and it runs away mm-hmm

[00:26:45] okay right so yeah in that moment yeah she lets go and uh that's yeah yeah so it's an interesting

[00:26:55] that's an interesting thought um to play with whether she should have chased it or

[00:27:01] whether she should have let it go because there's a nobility in letting it be

[00:27:05] and and having had that communion with it and um not imposing your will on on those powers

[00:27:15] but yet being in in some sort of sympathy with them you know some sort of relationship with them

[00:27:20] whereas what this world what this society sorry I shouldn't say this world but what I should say

[00:27:25] is this society of men demands is that nature be you know conquered and that the white heart

[00:27:33] be taken so it's almost like a a conflict of philosophies in a way you know did did she have

[00:27:45] a better way is there a better way that Reneer could have brought whereas you know what society

[00:27:50] is demanding is is what the seras friends are going to write it and be like she did the right

[00:27:56] thing guys stop stop making her doubt it that's interesting because if she had if they had

[00:28:00] chased it down and killed it and brought it back how would have the court seen her that would

[00:28:08] have been a powerful enough omen so to speak you know signs and portents to say that you know she's

[00:28:15] she's worthy wouldn't have been so cool if she she rides in and christin coals next to her

[00:28:20] carragate and he just slaps it down right in front of the king and she's like yeah I'll take

[00:28:26] my crown now buddy you can retire after your pathetic showing of having this thing

[00:28:33] roped in uh man that was just and I think this was a thing that we all discussed when we were

[00:28:39] watching this originally but can we talk about the poop glove like they are just passing around

[00:28:45] droppings of the white heart at the beginning of this episode yeah and then right after that

[00:28:50] viscera is like patting everybody on the back he's like hey guys he's like your touchy uncle

[00:28:57] with his feet with two yeah missing two fingers in the poop glove yeah yeah my god my god all

[00:29:04] right so speaking of viscera is he gets super drunk and here's several pitches for ranea's

[00:29:09] hand before doubting his succession to allicent auto and hobart high tower scheme this was

[00:29:19] kind of hard to watch not not in a bad way not in a production bad way but in uh really feeling for

[00:29:26] the character of the serious like put it down put it down he's got to sit up there in front

[00:29:32] of everybody by himself and he's mortified by his daughter's behavior yeah and uh he's just

[00:29:40] all alone up there when all he wants to do is be sitting around with some friends telling

[00:29:45] some slightly off-color you know jokes about this or that time happening and and to feel the company

[00:29:52] of of others uh and i think they do from a storytelling storytelling standpoint they

[00:29:58] do a really good job of showing us the sense of isolation that he feels uh from everyone and

[00:30:06] part of what drives him and drives him to ultimately making bad decisions because he's

[00:30:11] trying to make decisions that feel good and make everybody feel good around each other

[00:30:17] rather than being making the hard decisions that a ruler needs to make but he's just he's

[00:30:22] he's such a gregarious guy just to be sitting up there alone just was really it was depressing

[00:30:29] it just frankly it was just watching him getting drunk by himself yeah yeah it's a lonely job

[00:30:34] being king huh completely especially when your wife is allison high tower who is just not into you

[00:30:43] do you don't think i think they i don't know let's talk about it when we get to the next episode

[00:30:48] okay let's talk about that scene okay yeah yeah yeah and and of course we are let known that

[00:30:56] hobart high tower who's at the actual lord of old town he's just like right on board with the

[00:31:02] whole let's let's go make agon king you know let's make our blood king right right i got to look up

[00:31:08] here's hobart right yeah hobart uh hobart uh he yeah i think he he's a very they set up a very good

[00:31:20] one-dimensional character to represent the the voice and and the the sense of the powers that

[00:31:27] be the society this is society as it is is really well encapsulated with him so that i think from a

[00:31:34] storytelling beat that that works we get the sensibility of the nobles and then in episode four

[00:31:40] we'll get the sensibility of the common folk or the small folk right so yeah it works right

[00:31:48] yeah i do like that we get more common folk stuff than we do in game of thrones

[00:31:52] yeah even though this is a show primarily about the royal family actually you know that reminds

[00:31:57] me that was a note that i had that i forgot to mention earlier in uh hot takes was that one of the

[00:32:04] things that i am enjoying in this season overall is getting these glimpses of the back of the house

[00:32:12] stuff seeing the different servants and seeing the different scenes of them moving and coming

[00:32:17] and going and you get a sense of life a much broader slice of life you know especially

[00:32:24] even in the red fare scenes we're seeing a lot more of what goes on and that it for some we we

[00:32:30] i don't know i felt a lack of that in game of thrones seasons for some reason not that it wasn't there

[00:32:36] i think the later seasons lacked it i think the earlier seasons had some of it at least yeah

[00:32:41] but later seasons were just totally defunct of it right okay so then it's not my own because

[00:32:46] when i'm seeing these scenes i'm like oh that's kind of refreshing and and i didn't know why i was

[00:32:51] feeling that so so maybe that makes sense remember we had hot pie in early game of thrones yes

[00:32:56] don't forget about hot pie don't forget about hot pie and gendry still rowing all right demon

[00:33:02] valerians plea to the crown leads viscera's to send aid to the stepstones before the aid can get

[00:33:09] there daemon ambushes and kills the crab feeder so it's the aid that's coming that spurs daemon

[00:33:20] action because he's like i'm not losing credit for this exactly you know it's the night before

[00:33:26] the group project is due and you want to come and you want to write the conclusion paragraph

[00:33:32] and put your name on it no no no no i'm finishing the project myself and the teacher's gonna know it

[00:33:38] and it just goes to this um wounded ego thing that daemon carries around he can't he can't play

[00:33:50] nice with other kids he can't be part of the the group he can't accept the help um he would still

[00:33:56] be feted as a uh a conquering hero when he returns right you know good job and you know

[00:34:02] all that kind of stuff but he just can't do it he can't accept it his ego is is

[00:34:08] malformed in that way but daemon also lives for the drama totally he's a complete he just wants

[00:34:15] like there's a reason he doesn't deny when uh when he gets called out about his behavior with

[00:34:21] runiera in the next episode there's a reason he doesn't deny it because he lives for the

[00:34:24] drama he loves it yeah yeah yeah and yet every for every time he reaches out for that drama and

[00:34:33] and takes a big drink of it it leaves him more and more unsatisfied

[00:34:39] it's there's a he's trying to fill a hole in him that that can never be filled

[00:34:43] it does feel like by the end of the season he calms down yeah right there's which is

[00:34:48] interesting and kind of makes sense in tracks with like an emotional maturity kind of thing

[00:34:52] right he's just he's got to he has had to excise this whatever to the point where he realizes oh

[00:35:00] i'm just not going to get any more joy of this so i might as well stop yeah grinding myself against it

[00:35:06] yep um can i just also say please the crab feeder absolutely has grayscale

[00:35:14] yeah yeah that's that was always in my head canon i don't ever remember hearing what the

[00:35:17] official they did eventually confirm it but i'm like how does nape man not have

[00:35:23] grayscale after bisecting this guy yeah i don't know i i think during the season the original

[00:35:29] airing of the season i was waiting for that to occur yeah me too constantly there was always a

[00:35:35] back of my mind there are instances of like i guess like i was looking this up earlier because

[00:35:41] i was very confused about it and i guess there are instances of sort of dormant grayscale

[00:35:46] that isn't as contagious like shireen in game of thrones yeah i was thinking of uh what's his

[00:35:51] name's daughter on on drive that's shireen shireen yeah right there was a lot of interaction with

[00:35:56] her and she didn't uh wasn't contagious right were you at all let down with the way the crab

[00:36:04] crab feeder storyline resolved no i loved it i loved him coming out with like the whole

[00:36:10] bisected i thought that was good i think it was a really good excuse to give us some action

[00:36:16] without going too fast into the dance okay they were you not yeah i don't know i i guess i was mixed i i get

[00:36:24] it i and i didn't it's not that i didn't enjoy it but there was just a there was something slightly

[00:36:33] missing for me that well don't forget that the the step zones plot line is not done

[00:36:39] okay we got some more coming next episode well i meant specifically with the crab feeder

[00:36:44] though himself and maybe that sort of final battle maybe it's just because i'm you know we're we're so

[00:36:50] trained and fed on a certain um arc to the way you know this would normally go

[00:36:58] and and to have to see no fight scene between daemon and the crab feeder you know even a

[00:37:04] couple of blows you know but or is this guy just not that good i mean daemon is just that good

[00:37:11] i i think the point was he was never that strong on his own the crab thing was he was great yeah the

[00:37:17] crab feeder he was just great at gorilla tactics right right and i mean so i was trying to just

[00:37:24] rather than because remember we had this debate about could you do it with a dragon quickly

[00:37:30] could you wait quickly if you started early yeah i was thinking about the targaryens and the

[00:37:33] limitations of their dragons that i've been reading fire and blood okay i'm not up to the

[00:37:38] dance of the dragon so don't think i'm trying to spoil anything here but i'm reading you know

[00:37:42] the early parts and we're gonna be suspect of you john now okay um it took it took agon like

[00:37:50] forever and he didn't even really do it it took the targaryens forever to conquer dorne

[00:37:54] because they would go into hiding all their leaders will go into hiding okay before

[00:37:59] the targaryens could even get there okay and if you if they can't find you then dragon fire

[00:38:04] does nothing sure yeah yeah yeah and so i do think that the crab feeder was at an advantage here

[00:38:10] and it took daemon committing kind of a war crime by surrender doing a fake surrender sure right

[00:38:17] reduced to gear yep yep yep uh which by the way they have anakin and obi-wan do all the time in

[00:38:23] the clone wars and there's like no problem with it but all right anyway enough star wars

[00:38:28] well who's gonna complain when you're the victor right trickery yeah yeah it takes him

[00:38:32] doing some trickery to really get get uh get anything moving on this war and get to the crab feeder

[00:38:38] so and i think that was part of my point when we had watched episode one and two

[00:38:43] and i was satisfied in the resolution of that part of the storyline was that they were actually

[00:38:51] using stratagem and tactics it's like okay you've got a lot of smart people and you've

[00:38:58] got some pretty powerful weapons are you thinking about using them in clever and innovative ways

[00:39:05] obviously the crab feeder has got you figured out and understands the the the dance of the dragon

[00:39:13] right dragon comes we run inside dragon flies off we run outside and they're very loud yeah we do

[00:39:19] we do this whole thing and that's and we got it worked out we got plenty of provisions where

[00:39:23] we are well laid in with our stores and so we can wait out a siege no problem etc etc

[00:39:31] and pretty quickly daemon's you know came up with a plan and you know i don't know how

[00:39:39] much the rest of everybody else was involved in that plan was lanor because lanor seemed to

[00:39:44] to have some thoughts yeah that's a good question did he actually have like the leave of daemon

[00:39:50] to do that or was that just free styling because it worked right oh yeah i don't think they succeed

[00:39:56] without uh lanor keeping all the archers off of daemon exactly and that's and actually you

[00:40:02] actually having a battle plan actually having a bit of a strategy you've been toe to toe you've

[00:40:07] been locked in this fight with these people you guys know each other's strengths and weaknesses

[00:40:12] and actions and reactions pretty well at this point so now you gotta figure out how do you

[00:40:16] change up the game how do you change the dynamic and they did it and they did it pretty quickly

[00:40:22] once they made up their mind to think strategically um and so i don't that's where i was thinking

[00:40:30] earlier on okay so the crab feeder is suspects that you're gonna send dragon if you send the

[00:40:37] dragon right away is he fully prepared can you catch him off guard i mean he's pretty far off

[00:40:43] you could see the dragon far off so i know but i'm saying kind of prepared to like at least

[00:40:48] the crab feeder hide how long did it take us to find you know a sum of bin laden we're the most

[00:40:53] powerful military in the world it's true it's okay how long and he's sitting there playing animal

[00:40:57] crossing wild world i don't know if you know about that but he had this like really intense

[00:41:02] save of animal crossing wild world and people want it so badly but it's locked up at the pentagon

[00:41:11] but he was okay they want to see what bin laden was doing right at what level you know yeah

[00:41:18] my point is that but that happened after the the whole thing and he was intentionally hiding and

[00:41:25] he had a lot of security a lot of op sec as the kids say um to to be able to successfully hide

[00:41:32] prior to that there's a lot of intelligence about where they were and who then they went dark

[00:41:38] you know to to execute their plan so you know if they had dealt with it sooner before

[00:41:46] you know while the crab feeder was getting early so that's what i'm saying is is that i think there

[00:41:50] was an opportunity i don't believe you earlier on also you can't use the white flag strategy

[00:41:55] when you just landed oh yeah we oh we just got here but you you're just so tough oh we're

[00:42:02] going to plant the white flag i'm not saying you don't look around the white flag i'm saying use

[00:42:07] your use your tools cleverly so it's like oh okay the archers are going to run it there's a bunch of

[00:42:13] k you know do some intel oh there's a bunch of caves there oh okay they'll probably run in when the

[00:42:17] dragon comes okay so how do we keep the archers out and how do we get the dragon in to attack

[00:42:21] i'm just saying think about it there's there's a there's a creative solutions that they could

[00:42:25] have employed right instead of just being i hear you going for it it does seem like they were

[00:42:30] doing traditional it's kind of like you know this is the traditional wisdom you brits who listen here

[00:42:36] this is the traditional we get we get taught in american school is that the brits were too locked

[00:42:41] into their formations and their formal battle tactics and washington's like no we're attacking

[00:42:46] it night on christmas you know these guerrilla tactics and and uh that's that's what won the

[00:42:52] american revolution that's what we're taught you can argue with us all you want well there's

[00:42:56] another there's another good example with the charge of the light I believe it's the charge of the

[00:43:02] light horseman is it in world war one uh an austin anzac unit normally the mounted troops would

[00:43:11] dismount and assault by foot they would just use the horse to the cavalry to move them to place

[00:43:18] to place and instead i'm trying to remember there's a great movie about it and i shared it

[00:43:22] with duv and duv probably right and i could google for it right now but it'd take too much time to think

[00:43:27] about it um anyway what they did was rather than uh they they attacked from a direction a that they

[00:43:34] weren't expecting right they went around the long way around then they cued themselves up um and they

[00:43:40] put themselves right on the edge like they didn't have enough water and supplies if the the

[00:43:44] attack wasn't successful because they were on the far side of their supply lines and attacking

[00:43:48] from the opposite direction and then rather than dismounting and walking up uh or crawling up

[00:43:53] and being hit by artillery and machine gun they charged on horseback and they overran the guns

[00:43:59] the guns couldn't uh the machine guns and artillery couldn't adjust fire fast enough right to compensate

[00:44:05] for the speed because they weren't expecting it so they used an innovative strategy they thought

[00:44:10] about it and they tried something new and that's what i'm saying with the dragons is

[00:44:13] do something different yeah not expected i guess i guess i think it goes both ways though i i do

[00:44:19] think it goes both ways i think the crab feeder had enough of a base by the time they even heard

[00:44:23] about it they were like this guy's becoming a problem it's not like he just showed up one day

[00:44:27] and that's why but then what i'm saying is i'm we're we're so you're trying to play 3d chess

[00:44:33] here all right i'm moving on in a made-up world in a made-up story with dragons in a made-up

[00:44:40] world that's already written vissaris reaffirms his commitment to reniera as air and convinces her

[00:44:46] to search for a husband this was a good scene i think especially because he's kind of honest

[00:44:54] with her for a minute he goes he did waver for a minute yeah but i swear to you on your mother's

[00:44:59] life i will defend your claim and then he says do like i did and go find love you know go

[00:45:06] find somebody who makes your heart happy i forget what the massive it had that vibe yes love

[00:45:13] it was uh it was like a a raw honest moment between father and daughter between king

[00:45:20] and air and it it played really well and again paddy conzettine is just awesome and millie's

[00:45:27] great is i'm gonna miss him this season completely completely gonna miss him and millie allcock and

[00:45:33] just her her expressions and her little kid face and the kind of way that she's kind of pouty but fierce

[00:45:39] and and just yeah they had great chemistry they did they felt like father and daughter

[00:45:46] and for a moment i thought okay this is going to be cool like they're they're getting somewhere

[00:45:52] and then just seras just keeps fucking it up pardon my french uh well so does reniera to

[00:45:58] be fair true did not take that whole let's get let's take a break when we get back we will get into

[00:46:05] the next episode we'll be right back with more house of the dragon and we're back with more house

[00:46:18] of the dragon all right so let's get into episode four now that we've been silly about our dragon

[00:46:26] 5d chess enough uh reniera hears suitors on her courtship tour of westeros before a brawl at

[00:46:33] storms in causes her to cut her tour short this was uh a lot of fun when you hear the stab and

[00:46:42] then you turn around and then the camera turns around and you realize it was the uh the the jerk

[00:46:48] face guy uh that got it you're like oh yeah the kid the kid stabbed him you're like damn

[00:46:55] like go good for him yeah for him he's doing his best up there right he's he's

[00:47:01] making his pitch and he studied gorilla tactics yeah there you go he said hey you know we we uh

[00:47:09] you know expecting the kid to have a blade that's right this uh and this is all pretty

[00:47:15] pretty hilarious and she is not taking her duties seriously and she's actually treating

[00:47:20] some people pretty roughly and that's not a good look so it's it's this so so now i'm on on um

[00:47:30] uh uh what's his name side father side yeah his uh god my brain is do you know i think on the second

[00:47:38] is the i had a train brother that that would be the alternative air well no i'm talking to viscera

[00:47:44] viscera's i'm on viscera's aside in his estimation of reniera that she's not mature

[00:47:50] already enough to to take on these duties and to actually take this job seriously because by

[00:47:56] any by any standards the way that she's reacting while while listening to these

[00:48:01] suitors is pretty disrespectful yes granted some of them are utterly ridiculous

[00:48:07] but you know these are your bannerman you're going to rely on them you need them you know

[00:48:13] you need to have some decorum at court and treat people in these ways that doesn't shame them

[00:48:21] i did enjoy her whole thing of oh did you think my my grandma was hot

[00:48:27] did you find my grandma hot thank you so much for for your judgment there yeah pretty

[00:48:34] hilarious oh boy oh boy uh you know it's funny i was i was just actually reading the chapters on

[00:48:41] alice uh alessanne which is the grandma that he said hey your grandma was so hot um

[00:48:47] she and jaharis married for love even though they were brother and sister and they like

[00:48:52] snuck off to get married it was like a whole thing and they wanted jaharis to marry for political

[00:48:58] reasons and he was like no no no sis or bust and uh yeah yeah so it's a whole thing now this is

[00:49:05] three generations marrying for love in a row and look what i think for everybody look what it gets

[00:49:12] yeah the heart once with the heart once the heart once is that the right quote no that's not there's

[00:49:16] something wrong with it anyway that is neither here nor there well anyway ranira is not into these

[00:49:23] players daemon returns to king's landing as king of the narrow sea but immediately gives his throne

[00:49:29] to viscerus leading the brothers to reunite yeah there is only one crown there's only one king

[00:49:38] and that is you brother and like like i said he lives for the drama yeah he really does i i loved

[00:49:47] the his entrance with his hair cut short and uh you know he's he's certainly i mean give it to

[00:49:59] the actor matt smith yeah thank you i'm really having a brain slow down you gotta have matt smith

[00:50:05] i mean i mean dr who coming back soon he is a master of this role he just owns this character

[00:50:13] so well everything from the fact that he might need a little bit of forehands all the way through to

[00:50:22] you know playing the the petulant brother to playing a actually a badass fighter you know

[00:50:28] there's there's all these different asset um aspects to him and matt smith just gets in there

[00:50:34] and every sort of nook and cranny and knows how to just really squeeze the drama out of out of daemon

[00:50:41] i mean i knew he'd be good as daemon because in doctor who i mean he more than any other person

[00:50:48] who's played the doctor and he's he's not even my doctor you know my doctor right but i love matt

[00:50:54] smith's era because he can go from playful to you know heartbreaking and heart wrenching

[00:51:01] really into the drama to manic and and like and then really scary at some point there's he delivers

[00:51:10] these lines in doctor who in front of like a group of aliens that make you take him so seriously

[00:51:15] where he goes good men don't need rules today is the day today is not the day to learn why

[00:51:20] i have so many great line he he just delivers them he delivers the crap out of them plus of

[00:51:26] course because of the nature of doctor who you've got a million times where there's like an

[00:51:31] evil clone of him or a robot right so he gets to play against yeah so he gets to play all these

[00:51:37] different kinds of things and it's campy because it's doctor who so you get to really swing wide in

[00:51:42] your performances you get to really push the boundaries and so when that makes you stronger

[00:51:47] so when you get in a much more tightly controlled role like this you can really play that tension

[00:51:55] of there's this you know that bursting tension of that electricity and energy that daemon has

[00:52:00] but it's got to be under control to in a particular way i'm so glad that he got to do that

[00:52:06] stretching and get this publicity at 27 he started playing the doctor yeah he was the youngest person

[00:52:12] ever had the role and um yeah he i'm so glad that his career has gone places because he's an excellent

[00:52:19] actor quick segue are you excited for the new season of i'm so hype they're meeting the

[00:52:24] Beatles this season is in the trailer fun and uh hopefully you and alicia are gonna do a little

[00:52:30] coverage i think we're doing some coverage i know we we were trying to figure out if we wanted to do

[00:52:34] full coverage we want to do partial i think we're going to do about three episodes total three

[00:52:38] podcasts total that'd be good given the fact that we're in this coming up into this crunch of june

[00:52:45] that's that's not bad if you could if you get a few in there it's and i think you were

[00:52:48] saying it's kind of an underserved market it is an underserved market in the us especially

[00:52:53] yeah in the podcast world too yeah so cool all right so that night daemon sneaks raniera out of

[00:53:03] the red keep where she sees a play mocking her claim he then brings her to a brothel and the two get

[00:53:08] steamy before daemon abandons her i didn't write in here but you have this cross editing between

[00:53:15] raniera and daemon actually having a really good time in this thing that's really an

[00:53:19] allicent forbidden and then allicent sitting there dead-eyed yeah just their limp i actually

[00:53:27] have that in one of my general notes as well is the the way that this episode there's so many

[00:53:32] mirroring scenes and it's really great and uh and we got that in episode one too right between

[00:53:38] the turny knights and the uh the birthing bed and and stuff like that so i it does work as a

[00:53:44] great storytelling device and then to have allicent there you know the whole the king

[00:53:52] requests your presence and she's just like uh the hour is late yeah yes your grace it breaks your

[00:53:59] heart though like really like she is clearly it's it's not something she wants to do and

[00:54:05] there's also this scene we didn't really talk about it but it's in the beginning of this

[00:54:10] episode where she and raniera sit down and are like hey it's been a while and raniera kind of talks

[00:54:17] about oh i i don't want to just be passed around as some you know birthing machine and allicent sitting

[00:54:23] there pregnant i am with like a child already and yeah it's it's not good it's not good she's

[00:54:30] like this is what i am you know i i serve your dad actually and the realm right i'm taking on the

[00:54:38] the role of the queen and and trying to to propagate the the line it calls back for me

[00:54:46] allicent calls back for me to some of what we got with sansa where she was very much enamored with

[00:54:53] knights and ladies and court and the the sort of the romance of all of that you know uh great

[00:55:03] society stuff and in where raniera is like uh i need a sword and a dragon and maybe a few minute arms

[00:55:12] and we're gonna go out and have some fun yeah and allison's like oh no i want to learn about the

[00:55:16] histories and i want to do you know all of this other stuff they just have these different

[00:55:21] expressions for for who they are i think to a lesser degree than sansa maybe just because of age

[00:55:27] totally yeah but i just grew up in court right yeah yeah and so she knows it but he just

[00:55:32] calls back to that yeah i i think what you're putting i'm picking up what you're putting

[00:55:36] not the sansa innocence about it but the fact that she's that's the world she wants to inhabit

[00:55:44] that's the world that that interests her like i mean i'm my wife and i are watching our daughter

[00:55:51] and she's getting into fashion and makeup and music in a way that neither my wife or i ever

[00:55:57] were and so we're like this is we we did not put this we did not create an environment where this was

[00:56:04] promoted or encouraged but yet this individual is wanting to go for it in this way and so

[00:56:10] like a real person yeah and and we have to kind of go for it so like if your thing is like oh

[00:56:15] court and tapestries and uh books and histories and you know dresses and whatever that's what you

[00:56:22] want you know rinnear is like not man i want a dragon and and some you know some some good times

[00:56:29] i want some adventure i want to be out in the world doing adventuring and um and and i know i

[00:56:34] noticed that there were a couple of times when rinnear uh sorry when alison looks at rinnear like

[00:56:39] what are you talking about that sounds like like not fun at all and and again it's that

[00:56:44] separation as the two uh friends start to diverge as their adults right moving further apart

[00:56:50] and i have plenty of friends that are like into stuff that i'm not at all into yes and that's totally

[00:56:57] fine but they they're so young and and kind of inexperienced with this and having listen to you

[00:57:03] old man being mother-in-law and daughter-in-law exactly i was not rather stepmother and stepdaughter

[00:57:10] right i mean my god it's a bit of a it's a bit of a wrench in the whole friendship machine

[00:57:16] yeah but then back to alicense and um her time with her king they don't they don't they make it very

[00:57:28] apparent to um uh viscera's overall body condition we see sores on his back and and you're just like

[00:57:39] the the last thing i was watching with my wife and she said she's begging a corpse

[00:57:43] exactly it's not great it's not great and and i think alicent does have genuine i think there's a

[00:57:50] genuine love and affection there but it's she's a young woman and it's just kind of a bummer because

[00:57:58] he's an old man and they're just not in the same place in life and they can't enjoy each other

[00:58:04] in in that way fully in that way and she i think she wanted to have like a cup of coffee with

[00:58:08] grandpa viscera's not bang grandpa viscera's exactly and and uh and she clearly isn't enjoying um being

[00:58:16] a mother at times she's holding the babies and she's just like oh dear god get this thing off you know

[00:58:22] away from me right she's very put upon with uh with cally key children in fairness she is very

[00:58:28] very pregnant and viscera's i'm sure has picked up his son like three times right exactly

[00:58:33] and she does have a bunch of the kind of guy who who's like i'll talk to him when he's five

[00:58:39] right and and to be fair she's got a lot of help where a lot of families these days do not

[00:58:46] right and and we have to do more anyway yeah we get another instance is the second one of impotent

[00:58:53] daemon which just like disappears as a trope throughout the season mm-hmm i don't know what

[00:58:59] happens with that well he finally got his for him subscription fulfilled oh my god oh my god

[00:59:07] it's just him's was it it's just him's it was just him's i thought it was for him's see that's

[00:59:13] that's uh that's how i know you're not a millennial because you're not getting advertised these 24

[00:59:16] seven they're advertising me this is uh for listeners if you're not subscriber on our

[00:59:22] second podcast uh our second breakfast podcast which is our our patreon exclusive john and i

[00:59:27] were we're laughing about all of the ads that are on hulu for the millennials as they're getting older

[00:59:32] and it's horrible i hate it i hate it get them off my for you page oh man it i think it it's an

[00:59:42] interesting note that they play with daemon's um is it is it psychological is it physiological

[00:59:55] is it is an actual medical treatment or is it is it this mental thing that he's all churned up inside

[01:00:01] i think it is mental because it goes away and i don't see any health changes happening for him

[01:00:08] you know right yeah the the the maesters aren't making him any tea here you are my lord special

[01:00:12] tea we'll get to that yes um and it's interesting though because and i think we talked about this

[01:00:19] last episode the show really makes you examine and and root for people that you don't want to root for

[01:00:27] or be mad at people you don't want to be mad at and in this moment wait wait a minute does daemon

[01:00:34] actually have a is there a shred of morality here a sense of values that maybe this isn't

[01:00:40] the best idea and something's holding him back from from following through uh i don't think so

[01:00:47] i think he just couldn't get it up no that's what i'm saying is that there's an inner conflict that

[01:00:51] that that that is not allowing him to be fully in the moment his penis took an ethics course what are

[01:00:58] you talking about i'm talking about psychological you know about his psychology i think i think he's

[01:01:06] insecure about his whole relationship with everybody in his family sure yeah i think that's

[01:01:12] really what it is i don't think it's i don't think it's it's wrong to have sex with my

[01:01:16] niece because he wants to marry his niece he asks for that in next scene he does he does

[01:01:22] anyway and especially with the Targaryens like literally his parents were brother and sister

[01:01:28] that's not true is that true i don't think so okay now i gotta look it up don't add John

[01:01:34] he's gonna look it up his grandparents i think were brother and sister i don't say let's say

[01:01:39] all right his parents let's see his parents uh were Bailon Targaryen and Alyssa Targaryen let's see

[01:01:50] this goes a little too far out of the scope of our show guys we're good we're good we're good we're

[01:01:54] good okay okay his grandparents were um we're siblings so anyway the point is oh and his parents

[01:02:04] were siblings too so we're you know he's even he's even less like it's less weird for him because

[01:02:10] he's like oh i'm the double product of incest the triple really because he had uh you know the

[01:02:16] seris is not at all all into this uh Targaryen sort of birthright societal you know well that

[01:02:27] and also i think it's more than that i think it's if this were like Renea's brother asking i

[01:02:33] think there's a possibility of a seris like all right that's within the tradition of our house

[01:02:37] but this is her uncle who knew her as a baby that's gross and she i i do think there's an

[01:02:45] argument that Damon groomed her yeah i mean look he's the cool uncle he's always bringing gifts

[01:02:52] for her well essentially putting on the necklaces i was gonna say the signal the writer signal that

[01:02:57] very clearly with the necklace scene they have their secret valerian language that they speak

[01:03:02] in front of others and i just think that there is there's definitely an argument for grooming here

[01:03:08] can we just go back to lauding uh both milly alcock and and uh matt smith one day you'll remember

[01:03:16] his name he has the easiest name too i was i was close um the they're acting while they're

[01:03:23] speaking valerian in this tense scene where they're having this this back and forth um in

[01:03:29] the godswood or in the little yeah it was just so valerian is a you know it's a made-up language

[01:03:39] it's translated onto paper the actors not only have to you know learn you know some actors will

[01:03:44] just learn the sounds of something and not under actually act or understand the meaning of it and

[01:03:50] just sort of pretend i don't know where their process is in valerian and how fluent and

[01:03:57] whether they just learn the lines or what but i just felt that they were acting in they were

[01:04:03] thinking and feeling those characters were were thinking and emoting in valerian and so to do

[01:04:09] that job as an actor uh so good so good yeah this show is keeping the conlang people employed

[01:04:17] conlanging if you don't know if you didn't listen to our second age podcast almost two years ago

[01:04:22] is the art of creating and adapting fake languages for media um i'm actually gonna be talking about it

[01:04:30] you know uh the next shire side chats episode i've already outlined it i'm kind of just pulling a

[01:04:35] lot of notes from that previous philology episode we did on tolkien but nice yeah yeah it's a cool

[01:04:41] thing and and i know george never wrote a full language for valerian or for druth rachy or any

[01:04:47] of these languages in his books but the tv show people right commissioned that well they don't they're

[01:04:54] it's not like they're writing a whole language they're basically like okay we need to have the

[01:04:57] root of the line of a vocabulary yeah and then we will work on specific phrases we need and they

[01:05:03] did uh goyre did that for foundation as well and season one they had to come up with a couple

[01:05:07] languages and stuff so what did you make of uh just being out in town at night in the streets and

[01:05:19] out on the town uh having ronira see you know how the small folk you know view her and her claim

[01:05:28] she's like because i think she says right before this right like oh it doesn't matter

[01:05:32] what the small folk want my dad's the king he's gonna make me queen and and that's gonna be that

[01:05:38] and you see right here that they're like we want agon yeah like he's he's the right he's the boy

[01:05:45] yeah right now yeah just be just because he's a boy he's a two-year-old and they'd rather have him

[01:05:50] than her i did love uh ronira's look on her face when she finds the secret door she's like

[01:05:58] oh damn this thing here was the whole time i didn't know about this like what the hell uh yeah

[01:06:04] you know it's it's funny that the red keep it's actually a tragic story the red keep was built

[01:06:10] you know over a couple generations of targaryens right and because they were based in dragon zone

[01:06:15] then they had the agon for it and the red keep had like a lot of secret passageways and so when

[01:06:20] it was done being built may gore the cruel can you guess what he did he threw a three-day

[01:06:25] feast for the builders and then he had them all killed right and all the secrets to die

[01:06:31] yep he was like you guys enjoy yourself for these three days and then everyone dies so that only i

[01:06:36] know where the secret passage makes the red wedding seem like a picnic yeah right so christin coal

[01:06:46] christin coal the man of the hour boy back in her chambers ronira seduces her christin coal when

[01:06:56] she finds him guarding her door yeah with all that sort of pent up energy from being out on the town

[01:07:03] and and being uh intimate with her uncle and she was ready to clown yeah and uh and she's

[01:07:12] she had a shine on sir christin coal from the beginning i mean she picked him obviously

[01:07:17] thought it was a good tactical sense that you know hey he's got actual combat experience so he knows how

[01:07:21] to handle himself under you know difficult circumstances but i don't you know maybe he's

[01:07:27] kind of hot he's not me personally sir christin cold isn't necessarily my type but i could see

[01:07:32] where you know i can see where she's going with this she's like you look most of the time they

[01:07:36] just stand there next to me who might have not want nice art on the wall you know i want to select

[01:07:42] the main thing i want he folds pretty easily well does he so that's my question is he kind of resist

[01:07:51] for a minute and when they're undressing him i'm like you know people say like oh well you know

[01:07:58] cheating when you cheat on your partner it's not like a single mistake it's like a series of bad

[01:08:03] decisions and i'm like how many bad decisions are there here with this amount of armor

[01:08:09] and leasing that's a really good job showing like this is taking like 30 minutes right to

[01:08:15] undress everybody and they are they have had time to cool off from this

[01:08:21] wait i gotta get this buckle i can't quite get it wait you know right move over a little bit

[01:08:26] to the left while i pull on this strap and yeah i mean it takes a yeah a team of pages

[01:08:31] you know an hour to you know right him get him armored up how does he get back in his armor

[01:08:37] afterwards or that's a really good question and get back out on punching his butt cheeks back to his room

[01:08:42] because he's got it well he's got it what if somebody comes by what if there's a patrol like

[01:08:47] you know is anybody checking on on him you know what if he's going to stand there all night

[01:08:51] you know doesn't he need a quick break every once in a while isn't somebody come

[01:08:55] anyway doesn't matter that's that's neither here no they wear cups you know they got they

[01:08:59] got cups in there i don't want to know i'm just kidding i don't want to make it up i'm just making

[01:09:03] it up but yeah it's i do think he was a little bit hesitant but at the same time guy had a long

[01:09:09] time to think about it in between the first kiss and when they actually did the deed

[01:09:14] it makes a workplace romance situation really highlights those like when he walks in in the

[01:09:20] morning and she's like oh hey why don't you you know come on he's like uh i gotta work right

[01:09:24] the queen wants you uh this isn't gonna this is gonna be weird it got weird that that and

[01:09:32] i mean this is this is an awkward situation all around it's just gonna be really bad

[01:09:39] because christin cole i mean he's now i think that this highlights the problem with celibacy

[01:09:47] oaths yes right especially unnecessary ones like this is totally unnecessary it kind of is i think

[01:09:53] that the reason the the reason given is we want them to uh devotion complete devotion they don't want

[01:10:01] to they don't want the king's yard to be thinking oh i have a wife and kids at home to take care of

[01:10:06] or i can't wait to get off if i have to leave my life down for the king then that's just me suffering

[01:10:11] right or i can't wait to get to go off duty so i can you know get into town to see my mistress

[01:10:16] or what have you yeah right singular singular focus but like people have needs and they're

[01:10:21] gonna find them somewhere and maybe it's with the princess right especially with the princess

[01:10:29] yeah and it's the the whole arc of this season of this whole show not just a season but this

[01:10:38] whole show pivots on this one night and this one thing of raniera sneaking out with daemon

[01:10:47] right so much goes wrong from from this point all just because she's seen and raniera makes a great

[01:10:53] point later that we can dive into now a little bit well not even that she yeah i guess it is that

[01:10:57] she's you're right because if if nobody had seen them meh nothing would have happened they would

[01:11:02] have christen cole and her would have had a weird workplace uh you know awkwardness but it would

[01:11:07] have never would have been a sitcom yeah um yeah whatever i'm trying to do the sign telling

[01:11:16] you know i know i wasn't quick enough to get at this time okay but yeah it's it's really tough and

[01:11:21] later you know raniera says you know if i were a man i could have yeah headed a million whores

[01:11:27] and nobody would have cared and i'm using whore because that's the word that she uses let's not

[01:11:31] don't at me well in viscera doesn't even viscera and daemon talked about oh yeah you know when

[01:11:37] we were young we used to roll through the streets and you know but that's but but viscera rightly says

[01:11:42] but you weren't born a man right and so you have to deal with this and it's a really interesting

[01:11:48] gender dynamic there right it's like he's saying like i know it's unfair that's just the way it is

[01:11:53] right now and you and i need to play within those rules right we can't change it right which they

[01:11:59] i mean they can over time but i mean him naming her error is a step in the right direction right

[01:12:04] i you know i having you know only the vague memories from watching it the first time you

[01:12:11] know a couple years ago to now i kept wondering i was like wait do they do a thing where they check her

[01:12:18] you know to make sure that she's still a maiden or not i was like this i really hope they don't

[01:12:23] no they don't they didn't but i was just like oh that's gonna because in another story and another

[01:12:28] you know yeah in the place they could have done that and that was just like oh man even more

[01:12:32] grosser which by the way if you're a man listening to this and you think that that's a real thing it's

[01:12:37] not the how the whole thing is not a real way to measure you know if someone has had sex or not

[01:12:44] to stop stop stop talking about it stop well it gets complicated in these stories like this i know

[01:12:51] but not this one you're the one who brought it into this one i did i did see there you go

[01:12:55] all right moving on the next day hi auto high tower tells the king that his spies saw

[01:13:01] ranira and daemon in a brothel and allison overhears allison confronts a ranira who denies

[01:13:09] doing anything except going out with daemon so and she swears on her mother's life the same as

[01:13:17] viscera swears to defend her claim mm-hmm so and you know nobody's really in the right here

[01:13:25] nobody's really in the right here as i was gonna say wrong but allison needs to mind her own business

[01:13:32] she does but also ranira should not be swearing on her mother's grave no and nor should allison

[01:13:40] really be sort of all worked out okay granted she's a queen and she okay i get it you know

[01:13:46] you've got it we've got to maintain your image here there's a public perception thing here

[01:13:50] but i think allison is truly um offended by the thought oh she's a prude this absolutely prude

[01:13:57] completely so you got whole monitor vibes yeah and and if she just would mind herself a little bit

[01:14:03] more granted she's the queen she's like okay i'm the queen we have a perception thing that we

[01:14:07] get to deal with allison would be an allison it would be at an r.a at the citadel

[01:14:12] she really let's just be honest yeah and then we have the um the white worm

[01:14:20] the white worm the little but little birds um we don't have little birds we have little i don't

[01:14:27] know what do we have um where is in the show guide where miss aria yes where is she she's at the top

[01:14:35] of the no faction okay there she is oh yeah right there i was looking at the wrong spot

[01:14:40] yeah also known as the white worm see that we have aliases there it is in this too yeah so she

[01:14:50] is what game is she playing i can't remember how her story plays out in the overall she basically

[01:14:58] just is like i am tired of selling my body i'm going to instead open my own shop and i'm going to

[01:15:06] be a trader of information right because people are a lot freer in brothels aren't they

[01:15:13] daemon and ranira and um there's power there there's power and money there yep yep

[01:15:23] all right so next day uh viscera kips kicks the crap out of his brother uh daemon does not

[01:15:29] deny his doings with ranira but asks viscera to wed them together viscera then banishes

[01:15:35] daemon to runestone for the second time may i add yes he still hasn't been there it's been three years

[01:15:43] he clearly isn't interested in in living in the veil no not by any means this we'll see next episode

[01:15:50] yeah this whole scene was pretty good uh oh i loved viscera is kicking him because it felt

[01:16:00] so complex it felt like such a complex character moment because this guy is weak

[01:16:05] he can't stand up to anybody except his little brother who did who probably did something sexual

[01:16:12] with his daughter he's like that's it you mess with my daughter i'm gonna fuck you up right

[01:16:16] and i i feel that you know what i mean and it's complex because it's it's not only family

[01:16:21] relations but it's also uh politics of the realm right you know that that you know he's on this

[01:16:28] mission to get ranira wed and if um if that is if if there's a perception among people that she's

[01:16:37] been with her uncle nobody's all the everybody's gonna run away nobody's gonna want to to uh

[01:16:44] be married to her so and i think daemon knows that and so he's like give her to me

[01:16:49] like let's do this here's the thing i'm not saying that it actually devalues a woman to

[01:16:55] have had sex i'm absolutely not saying that but in this world using this argument that they're having

[01:17:00] this is like daemon like throwing a piece of throwing like a prime rib on the floor and

[01:17:07] saying i'll take that asses for free yeah he's he's fine with it you know he's just like i've

[01:17:15] damaged the goods and now i'll take them off your hands mm-hmm yeah yeah and is there

[01:17:22] that's a good point is is there not some poor stratagem at play there it could be it could

[01:17:31] be that he's trying to get viscera to the point where he has to give him give her to daemon

[01:17:36] i don't know i don't know but i think i think ranira would be into it if if viscera said go

[01:17:42] marry your uncle she'd be like oh yeah i'm into that do you think what's the attraction for

[01:17:48] daemon towards ranira oh good question i do think she's charming like she's legitimately charming

[01:17:55] and uh she you know she's a fierce dragon rider i wonder if there is a truth to what viscera says

[01:18:04] to him which is you don't lust for my daughter you would lust for my crown that's also true

[01:18:09] i think both things can be true here right i think there can be two things that are true

[01:18:13] in that and the targaryens really do like fetishize incest right it's a thing right like they're all

[01:18:20] into that except viscera right except for viscera like get with the program um

[01:18:29] although viscera still marries somebody of targaryen blood it's not like he's

[01:18:33] he's marrying out of the family it's it's interesting just wondering like what is it

[01:18:38] that it's motivating daemon towards ranira here is it is it just family lore thing or does he really

[01:18:45] is he really truly attracted to her in a genuine way or is it all just a game to him yeah i think

[01:18:51] it's interesting i think later he's legitimately attracted to her but i don't know here i don't

[01:18:57] know here it is tough to judge viscera confronts ranira who denies the allegations but understands

[01:19:05] the bad optics she agrees to marry her cousin lennor valerian in exchange for viscera sending

[01:19:11] away auto as ranira believes him to be a manipulator viscera then sends auto away calling his judgment

[01:19:19] compromised was the downfall the the short-term downfall of auto oh so delicious i kind of enjoyed

[01:19:30] the problem is the problem is so gross coming back yeah yeah we do but he's just so gross so

[01:19:36] i just kind of i kind of lord i've i've only ever lived to serve yeah it's just like no dude you're

[01:19:46] you are big sas big sas energy um and i think i think auto in his smugness about

[01:19:58] and i think this is where at least viscera has picked up on it you know auto is thinking oh well

[01:20:03] i'll just run to the king with this hot salacious juicy news and and clearly like it's so terrible that

[01:20:09] you know it's gotta blow up on on ranira and then alison can you decide he's so smug with this piece

[01:20:17] of knowledge that he doesn't actually pause and think okay what are the three or four different

[01:20:24] ways that this could go and you know he's not actually plotting anything out he's just gleeful

[01:20:30] to to share this this you know juicy bit of information so he completely you know from a

[01:20:38] hand of the king kind of way in a in a you know court intrigue kind of way completely screws this up

[01:20:44] completely well that that but i also think that he started to get cocky and overplay his hand

[01:20:51] whereas i'm saying remember last last episode last podcast we said he never asks the king for

[01:20:57] anything well what happens in episode three is that he goes you should wed agon to ranira

[01:21:05] wed them right he he automatically starts asking things now that he's got you know the grandson

[01:21:12] in common right right right he's got a little bit more leverage a little bit more power yeah right

[01:21:18] so that he just starts to overplay his hand and he sets himself up to be taken down by ranira

[01:21:23] well and it's it's not even like ranira was angling for him from the beginning he just

[01:21:29] it was a stupid play completely yeah so i'm happy he got his for now for now i know i know i know

[01:21:39] sure it loads give them a moment for pity's sake yeah that night viscera stins grand maester

[01:21:44] mellos with a cup of moonti to prevent ranira from getting pregnant the ending of this episode

[01:21:51] was so good the fact that you're sitting there left with oh damn the saris is not so simple right

[01:22:01] he's he's actually he's not an idiot he's weak but he's not in he's not a foolish weak no he's not

[01:22:08] foolish yeah he's not complete he's he's he's blind he's complex but yeah it's it was so good

[01:22:15] it really hit yep um it was a great little setup and and the way that it played out was was uh

[01:22:23] it was a great scene just a really great scene absolutely and i like that he doesn't he doesn't

[01:22:28] argue with her right he doesn't go like no i think you did it go take your moonti this and that

[01:22:32] he just quietly sends the maester and it's like and and even the maester is really delicate

[01:22:37] he's like this will prevent any unwanted complications right i think she drinks it

[01:22:44] yeah i think so right we don't see it but yeah i think she drinks it yeah it's the if she hadn't

[01:22:51] and then she became pregnant it would the the complications would be even worse and i think

[01:22:58] she's feeling mellos got any more of that happy tea yeah uh so i think i think she's smart to

[01:23:06] to do it in that moment well and the fact that well but the irony of course is that

[01:23:12] it's you know daemon seed is nowhere near there it's great right it's gonna be the

[01:23:19] a different looking child right you know it's gonna have black hair it's gonna be baby chrispen

[01:23:24] exactly and that would have even been more you know as we get later on you know things do

[01:23:29] get a little weird later on so if i remember right yeah things got a little weird well that's

[01:23:35] episodes david yeah great great episode episode four just oh you know something that we forgot

[01:23:42] to mention too we haven't talked about is the tapestries it's not like oh my god but they were

[01:23:50] the talk of the season uh when it was first airing because once people started to notice

[01:23:56] and realize what was going on in them that everybody was going on these tapestry hunts

[01:24:00] and trying to like find pictures of them and stuff screenshots anyway the just this uh yeah

[01:24:07] just this episode the casting the acting everything was just spot on so like when when viscera's like

[01:24:14] oh you have to see the tapestries yes that's he's saying you want to see my porn collection

[01:24:20] i got some tapes in the back yeah it's huge it's you know it's 14 feet by seven feet yeah

[01:24:27] oh my god all right that's enough talk for these episodes you know we don't usually get this

[01:24:33] rungy on this podcast it's just that this is show this is the show uh why don't we head into

[01:24:40] listener feedback sounds like a good plan you can of course send your listener feedback to

[01:24:46] hotd at the lorehounds.com or head to the contact page on our website the lorehounds.com

[01:24:52] where you can send us a voicemail or a contact form entry you can also chat with us live on our

[01:24:57] discord server or tag us and say hey david john i don't feel like going on my email right now

[01:25:02] we want to make sure that this feedback gets in the podcast we will slap it right in

[01:25:07] and today we've got one piece of feedback from someone who doesn't watch the show

[01:25:11] okay that is maryland arpaquilla

[01:25:15] david my voice is tired and i'm gonna pass this to you got it let me get the

[01:25:22] feedback document open and maryland says hello lorehounds hello maryland maryland says well i

[01:25:28] have no intention of watching any of the episodes i think what is this score what is the show rank

[01:25:35] on the pockyla scale uh eight eight you think so that high wait wait five is the neutral one

[01:25:42] no no zero is neutral zero zero oh no no never mind three i'm gonna say three yeah i'd say three

[01:25:47] i'd say three is right i think i will enjoy listening to your podcast on the hot d season one

[01:25:53] and the upcoming season two for one thing there's all sorts of possibilities for medieval lore to be

[01:25:58] shared indeed there is and um uh we would love to have feedback on medieval lore for instance the

[01:26:07] level of violence that appeared in a tourney depended much on which sensory it was held in

[01:26:14] though i suspect that girm may have exaggerated it all for effect but in western europe tournaments

[01:26:21] were widespread from the 10th through the 16th century as expressions of aristocratic ideals

[01:26:28] as well as training for combat it began in the nice century with the frankish cavalry

[01:26:33] practicing military skills this involves primarily the melee or tourney tournament which was

[01:26:40] essentially an all-out combat with groups of as many as 200 people lots of injuries and far more

[01:26:47] than a few deaths the jousts on the other hand were uh one-on-one contest between two knights

[01:26:53] with lances which would also show up attorneys from time to time the earliest record of attorney

[01:26:59] death occurred in 1066 in tours by the mid 12th century england was participating in tournaments

[01:27:07] attorney was definitely a training for war using all the same weapons and armor

[01:27:12] they established a safe space for injured combatants to recover sometimes the two opposing groups

[01:27:18] came from different regions that were also an actual combat with each other that's interesting

[01:27:22] they would use the uh area as large as that between two villages with marshals who were

[01:27:28] supposed to ensure that the rules were followed but it's a kind of but it's kind

[01:27:32] of hard to see what's going on a village away from where you are currently located

[01:27:37] by this time the tourney was mostly intended for individual combatants to be able to increase

[01:27:43] his wealth by winning weapons horses and ransom from those he defeated the church often

[01:27:49] tried to ban tournaments and definitely condemn them but most knights didn't really care

[01:27:54] there's documentation of a london tourney in which seven knights showed up with each one

[01:28:01] dressed as one of the seven deadly sins revenge matches might often result in real battles taking

[01:28:07] place so up until the 14th century the tourney was a bloody and violent business and could well

[01:28:13] have had people lopping off heads and such it was the jousting that was the safer behavior

[01:28:19] interesting it resulted in fewer deaths it required that's hard to believe not death I

[01:28:24] would figure that it would be a lot of big bone injuries right getting thrown off a horse and

[01:28:30] paralysis and whatnot yeah it required great skill and this and honor were more important than

[01:28:36] brute strength along with your lineage eventually it became a massive social event with ladies

[01:28:41] attending and the emphasis on chivalry banquets and boots for selling things just to became

[01:28:47] the primary event though they would usually end with a small melee with blended weapons

[01:28:53] uh by the 16th century weapons and warfare had changed and in 1559 the french king Henry II

[01:29:00] was killed and a joust so the tournament started so tournaments started to decline at this point

[01:29:06] it sounds as though the scene you were seeing was a simple all-out melee rather than a joust

[01:29:13] but I wasn't there so I don't know so yeah Maryland the the scene it was jousting

[01:29:20] primarily jousting and then the jousts when they would when they were take when both combatants

[01:29:26] were off their horses they would engage in in melee combat and rather than just defeating and

[01:29:33] and or yielding you know being defeated being knocked out or whatever they were actually

[01:29:37] following through and killing each other straight up which from the standpoint of hey this is a

[01:29:45] all part of a party to celebrate the king's you know the birth of the king's son by the way

[01:29:51] I don't think they had to kill the person if the person that's what I'm they could not that's

[01:29:55] what I'm saying is it would be it would be poor sport to to yield to to kill somebody if they

[01:30:00] yielded right as well as the fact that yeah everybody's here to improve their their

[01:30:07] their renown to get more combat training and all this kind of stuff so it's all play so why

[01:30:13] are you actually crushing you know cracking each other skulls open it seemed to be extremely excessive

[01:30:20] for a party tourney you know thing so it was it was a bit strange because you're if you're sending

[01:30:27] you know all the young men from your house those are valuable assets you don't want to

[01:30:33] just you know have them killed in a in a silly tournament for the you know the the birthing

[01:30:38] of the king's son so yeah anyway um she continues my other two points are much shorter the whole

[01:30:47] concept of brother sister marriages is pretty repugnant to us now but of course in ancient

[01:30:52] Egypt it was a done thing amongst the pharaohs to keep the rulers and the family which meant

[01:30:57] the proper divine bloodlines and I will add in this show there's actual lore reasons to do that

[01:31:04] which is these are the only people who can control dragons right and so I guess there is actually a

[01:31:11] lore reason to do this but yeah it's still makes sense from under mother from modern sensibilities

[01:31:19] but also I think we said in the first episode like we're not going to just

[01:31:22] constantly complain about it because that's going to get exhausting right well noted but yeah

[01:31:27] yeah we'll move on um it also produced some pretty lousy pharaohs of course and by the

[01:31:32] medieval period which I understand is what germ imagines he's writing it was entirely flipped

[01:31:37] there were so many degrees of separation required between two people proposing marriage that it

[01:31:41] became very difficult for anyone in the nobility to find someone they could legally marry usually

[01:31:47] they simply wound up getting uh papal dispensations but this was often politically fraught even as

[01:31:54] late as victorian albert who were first cousins the practice continued though in this case

[01:31:59] without papal dispensation since england had long since become a majority protestant which

[01:32:05] resulting in the spreading of hemophilia amongst a large number of the noble houses throughout

[01:32:09] europe's oops so yeah and I think the the point here too is that there's a lot of varied practices

[01:32:17] from culture to time to place uh a lot of uh yeah and the idea of consolidating your power

[01:32:25] right you know and and and holding it within smaller and smaller groups to be able to uh

[01:32:31] have to be able to exert influence on those who are exerting influence so and of course

[01:32:38] we do have the famous line in game of thrones of every time the targaryens have a children

[01:32:44] have a child the gods flip a coin right like they could be mad or not right right like really

[01:32:50] good or really really bad yeah uh maryland concludes and every time I hear the word valerian

[01:32:56] I think of the herb herb herb valerian which is a lovely one that helps one relax and fall

[01:33:03] asleep I think it's a rather inappropriate name to give a noble house of westeros or

[01:33:07] anywhere else for that matter all the best maryland well thanks maryland for writing in

[01:33:11] it it's great to have uh some history from a bona fide librarian and a scholar such as

[01:33:19] yourself so please do continue to listen to the pods I totally get uh not wanting to get into the show

[01:33:26] given that the pocky list scale is your namesake don't worry we'll describe all the brutality

[01:33:32] and the incest for you that's right uh but it's great to have you along so thanks for and keep

[01:33:38] sending us in your missives I think that's all we got for feedback today that's it which shame

[01:33:44] on you all I mean maryland's not even watching the show and she wrote it shame on you all

[01:33:51] bow to your king I'm doing the bobby b b bot now um all right it's it's it's getting late I'm getting

[01:33:57] sleepy well we're getting punchy let's uh head into our show notes so we can close this thing out

[01:34:06] so quickly thank you to everyone who is a subscriber it means a lot we use all of those

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[01:34:18] different podcasts as well as our co-hosts get to share in the uh in in some of that as well so

[01:34:25] that we're the fruits of our labor the fruits of our labor so that we're like really honoring the

[01:34:29] you know the creative relationships that we have with our co-hosts as well uh consider if you

[01:34:35] are if you are considering a subscription I would say first look at a supercast it's exactly

[01:34:41] like patreon except it's just built for podcasters so we're we want to go in that direction and we

[01:34:47] like it a little bit more and if you do that and patreon or there consider an annual subscription

[01:34:53] because we actually throw in a really good 10 discount and uh it's kind of crazy amount of

[01:34:57] value that you get uh so absolutely uh we would really you know and if you if you can't or

[01:35:03] you don't want to subscribe no sweat either we've got the public ad free feeds and uh we just

[01:35:09] appreciate everyone um being here with us and we've got the season pass don't forget about that

[01:35:15] yes the season pass one time 10 bucks you get the ad free podcast and early access and the show guide

[01:35:21] and we get your your ten dollars yeah and you get early yeah you get all you get all the benefits

[01:35:26] yeah and I think the idea of just not for some people they just uh you know the I get it I get

[01:35:31] it I look at my account statements and I'm like why did I forget about that subscription so yeah

[01:35:36] this is a way for if you really just are so into hot day for us then you go ahead you buy that season

[01:35:41] pass and you'll have it forever yeah good stuff uh discord we are in the middle of actually doing a

[01:35:48] bit of a reorganization and getting things cleaned up but we have a really pretty

[01:35:52] a really fun and active community we've got a good mod team and just a lot of great folks who

[01:35:58] love to nerd out and talk about television uh all together it's kind of our virtual water

[01:36:02] cooler to use that that overused metaphor um but we've got channels for all the different projects

[01:36:08] and shows that we've we've got covered that we're we're working on and uh yeah if you um just want

[01:36:14] to hang have a place to hang out and chit chat with people about movies and tv it's uh join us

[01:36:18] there would love to have you yeah affiliates affiliates we've got plenty of stuff going on so

[01:36:25] I just started doing a uh you know a weekly community show update yeah so but but here's the

[01:36:36] thing though now I actually can tell you what's coming this week and I don't have to just spit

[01:36:39] ball a bunch of random stuff that's come out all right so this week we've got on the lower

[01:36:43] hounds feed we've got house of the dragon season one episode three and four that's what you just

[01:36:48] heard we've got some early in stories of the return of the noldor that is going to be with

[01:36:53] tea with Tolkien I'm excited to talk with Caitlin from T with Tolkien because she's a very smart person

[01:36:59] and I think it'll be a good conversation then Marilyn is going to join me and Alicia for the

[01:37:04] bad batch season three wrap up and tales of the empire so send in feedback of course for that uh

[01:37:11] next week is going to be doctor who we're going to cover the Christmas special and then through

[01:37:16] episode two because it's a double premiere this weekend so stay tuned for that that

[01:37:21] feedback by the way because it's a weird email is hard to set the lower hounds.com because we're

[01:37:25] super fun about it um the star wars complete canon timeline podcast launched this week that is

[01:37:31] Alicia's new podcast where she's bringing you through all the way from the dawn of the Jedi

[01:37:36] through the old republic through the high republic then on that feed me and Alicia are

[01:37:41] going to be covering the acolyte in full coverage in June so just just a quick note about the

[01:37:47] canon project the star wars timeline canon project it's so freaking cool it is what she's

[01:37:53] doing she is she's actually doing something that's really unique in the world of podcasting and the

[01:37:58] way that podcasts come out and the way that she's structuring the information it's super

[01:38:05] innovative and I'm just fascinated to see how this thing works and plays out I'm just so

[01:38:12] impressed with her creative sensibilities around podcasting so I'm super excited for this podcast

[01:38:18] yeah it's going to be super good I well I've already listened to some of it but I have to

[01:38:21] I have to listen to a new episode she just dropped like right before we recorded

[01:38:25] and we've got a channel set up too for the star wars canon timeline so if you've got questions

[01:38:29] and are trying to work things out you can um you can talk to Alicia straight straight there

[01:38:33] on the discord yeah radioactive ramblings is going to be dropping season two episodes one

[01:38:39] through four of invincible and I'm excited to hear that even though I haven't watched the show

[01:38:43] I think they're going to do a great job I know they're going to be covering the boys so this will

[01:38:47] be a good prep podcast I think yeah it's gonna be fun I'm in and we're going to bounce on to

[01:38:51] that podcast every once in a while with them for that season which will be fun though so

[01:38:56] felonies and fugazies is keeping going at properly Howard and may I say David you

[01:39:02] you told me make sure you turn on properly Howard today and I did I usually do anyway

[01:39:06] but I did right after you said that and they they discovered that we had

[01:39:14] a sound from our shogan podcast yeah and they use it and it was it maybe left so hard

[01:39:21] so they talked about pulp fiction it's a really great episode even if you haven't

[01:39:25] watched some movies which I usually don't it's a fun yeah it's a fun podcast they just make

[01:39:30] fun of things they debate whether keanu reeves is a good actor etc and they're both film nerds

[01:39:35] right so they're actually into film as well as having fun and being silly about stuff so it's

[01:39:41] this great mix of sweet and sour you know of in that way two great tastes that go together

[01:39:47] yeah next up is gross point blank so well I think they they said in their podcast are going to

[01:39:53] take a break and do the dune 2 conversation oh you're right they are they're going to

[01:39:56] be released the dune conversation so they're going to release that next week and then

[01:39:59] the following week they'll return yeah we'll shift dust next week is going to be covering

[01:40:04] beacon 23 season 2 episodes 4 through 6 so check that out rings and rituals will be back

[01:40:10] next week as well with another episode I think on episode 5 now we're up yes I believe so very

[01:40:17] exciting all right plenty of stuff going on plenty of stuff we're back on the content train

[01:40:24] we were we got disrupted there but things are firing the fire hoses firing yep and I know Alicia

[01:40:31] is um wanting to do something on the new plan of the apes movie that's about to drop so yeah I think

[01:40:36] yeah that's that's coming out as well that's cool some stuff will be a I'm sure I think she's

[01:40:40] I listen David yeah we could talk here all night about all the things that are about to happen

[01:40:45] we should get it but instead I think let's talk about the things happening in the next week or so

[01:40:49] because otherwise we're gonna be here all night fair enough well anyway so time for our shoutouts

[01:40:53] discord server boosters opus the machine gnarls erin k chiller the thriller dark of the

[01:40:58] ninjas and do 71 thank you for helping to boost our server and make a more fun place for everybody

[01:41:05] to hang out and to our lore masters samar shen michael g michelle e david w brian p nick w s c

[01:41:14] peter oh h patina w adam s nancy m do 71 brian ad 63 frederick h sarah l garret c eric f matthew m

[01:41:25] sarah m dj miwa on dra b kwang new dead i jedi bob nathan t alex v erin t sub zero erin k dally v 21

[01:41:35] mothership 61 gnarls and the last shell be first adrian who is a special request to always be listed

[01:41:46] last but thank you all to our top tier lore master subscribers we appreciate you and um your ongoing

[01:41:54] support means a lot to us and to everyone thanks for listening and subscribing and just being part

[01:41:59] of the community should we get as drunk as viscera's and thank everyone like that

[01:42:07] no i i can't get drunk like that anymore all right all right fair enough oh stick around post

[01:42:12] credits oh stick around yeah you'll hear you're here the lovely song of 22 year old

[01:42:18] it's hilarious it's really good all right see you next week the lorhounds podcast is produced

[01:42:25] and published by the lorhounds you can send questions and feedback and voicemails at

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[01:42:40] the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities thanks for listening

[01:42:59] sister who do i stand before this morning

[01:43:14] never thought you'd get through the door you poor thing

[01:43:22] speaking of your promises and hoping to be gone before the night falls tell me where you might go

[01:43:39] sister i am still counting crows before you love our fight that's left within you

[01:44:19] you they left my heart a bloody mess and found me when the night was finally through i never

[01:44:33] thought i'd lose

[01:44:41] can i go on with this feeling that i've eaten somebody's too

[01:44:48] oh the time that i'm stealing is only appealing to you

[01:44:56] and i'm trying my best to go on with the rest but it's true

[01:45:01] sister seems at times not on our side snow has buried all of my pride

[01:46:04] this word you speak will only bring more suffering for you and me but one day

[01:46:12] maybe we can be free

[01:46:22] a new star wars journey begins in the place all good journeys begin at well the beginning

[01:46:29] this star wars day i'm excited to introduce the new star wars canon timeline podcast where

[01:46:34] we will piece together the complete story of that galaxy far far away in timeline order

[01:46:40] from the dawn of the jedi through the great unknown following the sequel trilogy this is a podcast for

[01:46:46] both star wars super fans and complete newbies listen to the short intro episode now to hear

[01:46:51] how it works and what to expect over the coming weeks as we set the stage for the new television

[01:46:56] series the acolyte which we will be covering with weekly breakdowns subscribe to the star wars

[01:47:02] canon timeline podcast wherever you listen to take part in one of the most epic and

[01:47:06] expansive stories ever told following all the twists and turns from start to finish

[01:47:11] may the fourth be with you all all month and beyond