The Rings of Power - S02 San Diego Comic Con Trailer Breakdown

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Think of a song you really love.

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you want to know why you love it so much?

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can't answer that.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: No, but we can deep dive into it anyway.

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[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back to The Rings of Power podcast.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Because Lorecast might mean something else now.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_04]: We are the Lorehounds, your guys at Tolkien's World of Middle Earth.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And with me tonight are going to be the regular team for season 2 coverage.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_04]: We finally decided it.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_04]: David.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And Marilyn.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn Arpaquilla here to join us for every single episode of season 2 of The Rings of Power.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't enjoyment and excitement something?

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty exciting given that it all started so long ago.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_03]: With an email about what Barovians were.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And here we are.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And you with your own podcasts.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And you on Acolyte podcasts and other kinds of things.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Best email I ever sent in my life.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm worth so glad you sent it.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Now if other people want to send in emails to us to join in on the conversation, they can send an email too.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_04]: LOTR at thelorehounds.com.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: They can go to thelorehounds.com slash contact and they can post in our Discord server which now The Rings of Power season 2 general chatter channel is up.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_04]: You can find it now.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_04]: We are very excited.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_04]: David, do you want to talk quickly about what we're doing with Season Pass and subscriber benefits?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So we have a lot of folks who stick around and they like to subscribe on our Supercast or on our Patreon site because they're just into all the different stories and IP genres and the community, all that kind of stuff.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's other folks who are just, they come around just for a particular show.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Just for a particular topic.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: House of the Dragon, Star Wars content and of course Lord of the Rings content, Tolkien content.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And so what we figured out was a lot of those folks want to help out and they want to support the community and be involved, throw us a few bucks.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But subscribing to Patreon or just another subscription, another monthly recurring then you have to remember to cancel it, dah, dah, dah.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It just gets all sticky.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So we said, well, hey, why don't we use our cool features that we have on our Supercast site that allow us to do a one time flat charge for a bunch of content that we produce around a particular show.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So we call that a Season Pass.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You pay 10 bucks.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You get all of our coverage of the season, ad free, early access.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: We are also what else we're going to throw in there, John?

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to throw in the second age.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: A lower cast.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to do the second age.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So you'll get all of this second age ad free as well.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we're going to do this is the fun thing that we just decided just on off air.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: We figured this out.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do a lower cast every week where there's probably going to be some interesting cool topic in every episode where we're going to do the Leo pointing meme and go, oh, that's cool.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: We should talk about that.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to get together and we'll do a deep little dive on that maybe half hour, 40 minutes or something or so on a particular aspect of the show.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's all the podcast stuff you're going to get.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there is the amazing, oh, access to rings and rituals as well.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you're posting, Marilyn?

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, question mark.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Why not?

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we have another thing.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we'll talk about that later, but really quick when I talk about the show guide, we've been using the notion platform for a while for a couple of things.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, I don't know, John put something in his pipe weed and he took off like a blaze of glory like Gandalf's fireworks.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And he put together this amazing House of the Dragon show.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: God, I was messing around with it a little bit for true detective.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And what was the other one?

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_03]: We did we did a little bit with foreshow gun.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But really when it came to House of the Dragon, we kind of exploded and Aaron and Brian 8063 from our discord helped out.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And then John has already started running on the show guide for rings of power.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to have an on screen character guide so you can see who the people are.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: There's little pictures, there's links to bios.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: There's, you know, a links to all the different people that act particular character might be related to.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: There's going to be some historical character guide information location guides.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about putting some artifact guides on there.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And then each week we will do a visual guide to the episode.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So John will take screenshots, he'll write a little scene by scene synopsis.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that'll be there for every single episode, you know, usually within a day after the episode airs.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that's what we use for our episode and episode by episode breakdown.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're seeing that, you can sort of follow along if you will with how we're going to break down the episode.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And we have screenshots and little descriptors.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And so you get all of that content and that amazing resource for 10 bucks flat, no recurring charge.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You're done with that.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's turned out to be really successful and reasonably popular for House of the Dragon.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think people really like it a lot because like I said, a lot of people just come in.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: They're just here for one particular show or on for a particular topic.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they're off again until the next thing of interest and they want to support and they want to help out.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And we figured that that's kind of a good way to do that.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: John, do you want to talk a little bit more about the show guide specifically?

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's called The One Guide to Rule them all.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I've named it.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Imagine that.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And Marilyn has been helping me do the bios for all the characters and that's been super helpful.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Amazing.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_04]: That Marilyn.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fun and it's helpful for me too.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_05]: It's shaping all these backgrounds straight in my mind.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's shaping up.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we have all the characters and we just got to fill out like images and things like that.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to fill out some details on locations.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And then yes, I am.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I have already started the artifact guide.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So things like the Palantir of Numenor that's going to have an entry or it already does actually.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_04]: The rings will get entries as they are made and I think it'll be a lot of fun.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, cool.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I really found that guide incredibly helpful in going through House of the Dragon because

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_05]: as you know, I don't watch the series.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Except you write in every week.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_04]: You're a very loyal feedbacker, Marilyn.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Every week that there is something that I feel I can usefully comment on.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But it keeps me up to date with the show even though I have no interest in watching it

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_05]: because I don't want to have all those images just scrape off the back of my eyeballs.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Instead you'll just have me describe them in vivid detail on the show guide.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you're interested and you're like, hey, what is this thing they're talking about?

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Is the show guide really worth it or whatever?

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: If you go to our website, lorehounds.com and scroll down on the main...

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: The lorehounds.com.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: The lorehounds.com gets a 404 error.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: The lorehounds.com.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Scroll down a little bit on the main page and you'll see an embedded video of me doing a tour

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: of the House of the Dragon show guide seeing what kind of resources are there.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We've still got construction tape up and scaffolding on the one-ring...

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: One guide to rule them all.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But once it's done, maybe what I'll do is I'll do a little video again for that

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and we'll refresh that so you can see, hey, is this something that I really want to get access to?

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Would this be helpful for me?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And so anyway, you can see what the House of the Dragon one looks like

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: if you go to our website.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_04]: My pride and joy of the one guide to rule them all is that there is a race view.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So you can divide by elves, men, dwarves, hard-footed orcs, etc.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's also an elven faction view where you can divide the houses of the Noldor,

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_04]: the Sindar, the Sylvan elves, etc.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's a managed faction view where you can have the Southlanders,

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_04]: the House of Hador, the Numenorians.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, Marilyn asked it at the House of Hador to be more specific.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Little details coming along if it's important aspect of their identity.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's important to include.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I see what you're saying. Elrond is not quite a Numenorean.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_04]: He is...

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_05]: No, he's not.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: He... I think the closest current House would be the Numenorians, but alas.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I was even using this today when I was doing the prep for the trailer breakdown.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Super helpful.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right. Who is the actor for that?

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, just all kinds of great information.

[00:09:29] So...

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's enough salesmanship.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Shall we talk about this trailer?

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_04]: What's general thoughts and whatnot?

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn, do you want to start?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure. It's really packed.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And lots of vivid imagery.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_05]: It moves quickly.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_05]: We see it!

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yay!

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Finally.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Possibly an aunt wife.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: We're not quite sure, although I think the case is being made pretty well that it is in fact an aunt wife.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_04]: The visual language is there.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, definitely.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_05]: There are so many things going on, but I have to try and keep it straight in my mind as distinct from all of the behind the scenes that they're starting to throw at us.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_05]: For those of you who really don't like spoilers, just don't watch any of this.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Even the trailer, I would say.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Even the trailer.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The trailers are really heavy into telling you exactly what's going to happen, I thought.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is an interesting change in perspective on the part of the company, I think.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure that I felt the same way about the first season, but wow, they just seem to be wanting to lay it all out.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: My guess on that comment, just to interject slightly on that comment, is that they're trying to re-establish a little bit with the fandom after last season.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're trying to really make the average fan feel like, okay, I can watch this.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: There's cool action happening, there's all kinds of stuff.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's the modern trailer is really telling a lot of nuts and bolts of the storyline.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So that you as a consumer before you go in, you're like, yeah, I want to buy this.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to get into this.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is a modern trailer.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I was looking at a trailer for Alien, the 1979 Alien movie.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It had no plot or character or stuff in it.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Just a whole bunch of weird visual images and sound and whatnot.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: They just don't do that anymore.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: People really have an expectation of pre-sell me on what I'm going to buy before I go in.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think they're trying to rebuild a little bit from season one to make sure people feel good about season two.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And the other thing is when you do that sort of thing, you are somewhat less likely to have quite a strong and emotional reaction if people are not pleased with something.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: It kind of gets it over ahead of time.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_05]: See what I mean?

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So that when they come in, they know, all right, I guess I have to expect this or that.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_05]: The other thing is that of what word does come from?

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, also this is a story that is very concretely written, right?

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Like this is it's written all over the appendices of the Lord of the Rings.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It's referenced throughout the Lord of the Rings.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: If you know the third age, you at least know where this is going.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the tale of the Lord of the Rings is far more known than this tale of the second age.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. And yet there are points that you can link to.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_05]: There are certain beats that you know that have to take place, but in between them are these vast areas that you can really exercise creativity around.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And that seems to be what they're doing.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And some of what I'm seeing, I'm liking.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll be interested to see some of it.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, oh no, don't do that, please.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm going to hurt someone over Tom Bombadil.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, for me, it's not so much about well, that's not what Tolkien said.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It was more about, oh gosh, I hate going along this road as it were.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_05]: So what about you, David?

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_05]: What did you think?

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I was pretty wowed by this trailer.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: If I hadn't been already in this world, I'd be like, oh, this is cool.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd watch this.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we were just talking about sort of trailer mechanics a minute ago.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: As an average fan person, I think I got everything that I needed to.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's this dude.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some sort of change.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some rings.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_03]: There's, you know, some cool fight stuff happening.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It was as a trailer, it was well built and it really serves the purpose pretty well.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Visually, again, it looks like they've dumped a lot of money into all levels of production.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It looked great.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It looked like I would expect it to follow on from season one.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think both of you, I'm guessing both of you because we haven't heard from John yet,

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: but not only was this a packed trailer, it feels action packed.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It feels like, oh, wow, we're going to get some real intense battle scenes, a siege.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they've got a cave troll.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we've got, you know, hopefully some cool Elven fighting stuff going on.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So it looked pretty exciting and I'm, my excitement level is pretty high.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, cool.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Like if this is what you're showing me is what you're going to give us, I'm here for it.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There's even a cavalry charge.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which looked pretty exciting.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, we'll talk about it when we get there.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I feel like, you know, what they've shown me so far, I'm pretty excited to see.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So, John?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it got me very hype.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I really liked the way they did a lot of things.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Still not a fan of the ring design.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I am not at all a fan of how they're doing Bombadil in the trailers.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And I hope that it's a lot different once we see him in all his glory.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: But other than that, I think they're really, they're really selling me on Atatur.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: That stuff is awesome.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_04]: That feels right.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Bearer of Gifts.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It feels right that Caleb Brimbo is so like seduced almost by him.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And although I guess in the writings technically, Caleb Brimbo is kind of the only one who does see through him in a Reggaon.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, the point is the rune stuff looks really cool.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Even if the Rangers aren't the most original design I've ever seen.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't know what Nori's doing.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That one kind of baffles me.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But the Strangers arc seems like it could go an interesting place depending on what else the Bombadil in charge has to say.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Very curious to see where Farisone goes.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_04]: The shot of Muriel, like you pointed out, Marilyn is worrying a bit.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But we'll see what happens and...

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_05]: The word ominous comes to mind.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're already getting ball rock.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the thing.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's what concerns me is that are we doing too much if this is going to be a five season show?

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like they're going a little far down the runway now.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_03]: This feels packed, doesn't it?

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I have to think that the final season is going to be nothing but the Last Alliance.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And it might be part two of the Last Alliance.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But is there enough there is my question?

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't want a whole season of war.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't either.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know, I'm not sitting around the table with everybody.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_04]: But you look at something like House of the Dragon where that show is literally about a war.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And they've spent so much time just doing like the interpersonal drama behind it.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Which makes it more meaningful when we finally have a battle.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I hope that they are doing more of that in Ring's power ahead of going to the actual battle.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's what each season is supposed to be for.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that you have, you know, I think we're going to see a lot more development of Yisildur in season two.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_08]: All right.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_05]: In order to prepare us for him so that when the time comes for the battle,

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_05]: we don't have to spend quite as much time saying, oh yes, well, Yisildur's brother had disappeared.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Now he's come back and all the emotional weight of that and so on and so on and so on.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's just theorizing at this point.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, overall, I'm cautiously optimistic for the season.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I did not say which trailer we're talking about.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe I should do that.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a good idea.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the July 2024 San Diego Comic-Con trailer.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll put it in these show notes, the link on YouTube.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can find also in the show notes a visual guide to this built with notion.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So you can kind of get a taste of what we do with the show guides without having links to the actual,

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, big character entries.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But that will be available for public in the show notes.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Then you'll have to subscribe if you want the full show guide.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: But for now we like to do these trailer guides visually for everyone so you can follow along with us shot by shot.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I better clean up my language.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, everyone, let's get on with it.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_04]: We have a first shot of Hallbrand walking through gates.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: There were some interesting, by the way, we've all put our thoughts in under these images.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was really interested to hear what you two had to say, especially David on this one.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You're talking about the design of the gate.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just thought that as the gate is rising up, I can just notice the design of the gate.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just feels nice that they put that kind of attention to detail on all kinds of things like a gate or a lamp sconce or a, you know, a balustrade or, you know, all kinds of stuff.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it just seeing the gate, the design of the gate put me right into the mood.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But the other thing that the gate did was the vertical rise is like a curtain going up on a play.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Nice.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And we have Hallbrand, you know, entering center stage and we get a direct look at our chief antagonist soon to be, you know, becoming something else.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But at least where we left off from season one, you know, we know who we're dealing with.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And which is kind of funny because we were all like, is he or isn't he during season one?

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And now they're just like, nope, here he is, right?

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, you know, you already know that.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you should already know that.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But I just liked that they're bringing him front and center for us.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, with the visual of the gate, the design of the gate and the curtain rising kind of action, I thought it was really cool.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I like that.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I like that a lot.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn, you had some thoughts on where we might be?

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, I think he's riding in.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he's got a horse now.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think he's running into Lindon because after all the stuff that went on at Reggae and Galadriel has already said, you know, we're not going to treat with him.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think what he's doing now is he's hastening to Lindon.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You think so?

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_05]: In order to start his, the work he needs to do with the elves of Lindon.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I do.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it has to do with that tree.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we could, I could talk about this more when we get to subsequent images.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_05]: But the more I thought about it, the more I think I'm, David put an inserter of a helmeted guard there.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't, there's no way that the Southerns could produce something like that.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I thought it would be Pallargier because there was explicit mention of, oh, there's an old Numenorean outpost.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I just don't think he's going to have a lot of time, even Pallargier, what possible reason could he have to go to Pallargier this time?

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't have the Nine Rings yet.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I get that.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I think perhaps the one excuse I could come up with for him going there is that we last saw him in Mordor, right, in the closing shot of last season.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And that would be closer to Pallargier than any of the other cities we're talking about.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and we're dealing with Saldron, who can travel in the blink of an eye because of Saldron.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But also recall that the Saldrons never found out that he was Sauron.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I know.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So he could just waltz right in there and be like, our rightful king, thank you for coming.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And he could just collect everything he needs and...

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: But what does he need that they have at this point?

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's going to turn them into supporters.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's possible.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's possible.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_05]: My sense is that a higher priority right now would be got to see if I can get my way into these elves now and corrupt them as soon as possible.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's just...

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if he will go to Linden.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he has already done quite a lot to start the whole process with the rings and he wants to finish it.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we already see him with Kelle Brimboar in the trailer, right?

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's going to be his main priority.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And those do look like Numenorean colors to me on the armor.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_05]: In which case he could be riding into a Reggion in this age.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But I just think that's highly unlikely in light of where we ended.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, I don't think he's going to walk right back into a Reggion as Halbrann.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly my point.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Remind me and I'm sure Marilyn, you...

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Because you just did your season one rewatch.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Where did...

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_03]: What was Halbrann's disposition at the end of season one?

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't recall.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_05]: We don't know.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: The last we saw of this form was on the imaginary raft floating in the imaginary sea.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, okay.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Once Galadriel comes back out of wherever Sauron had thrown her, it's just she and Elrond.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's no trace of Halbrann at all.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And she says to Kiliborne and Elrond, we are not to treat with him.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: If he comes back, you know, don't talk to him.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't work with him.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So he's looking in this shot pretty worn, his clothes are pretty dirty and rough, his

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: hair doesn't look like he's put any conditioner in it for a little while.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't wonder if he's coming back from somewhere that he's been sort of exposed to

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the elements and whatnot, not living in an urban lifestyle.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It does.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the problem though when you know that you're dealing with a Maier.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't matter what he looks like.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it really doesn't matter.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't morph into anything.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Good boy.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It might be morphin-saron.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, yeah, it's tough.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Should we move on to the rings?

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Let us move on.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_04]: The shot of the rings being tossed right onto that stone.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, Marilyn, you had discussed the rejection of the work perhaps?

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, as you say, it looks like somebody was tossing them down and there's appeared

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: to be people in the background there.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, long flowy stuff.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So probably elves, whether it's Lindon or Reggian, it's not sure.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_05]: But given the scenes that follow, it seems as though we've come to Lindon with the

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_05]: three rings to try and convince Gilgallad that this is a good idea.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And it looks to me as though Gilgallad just tossed the rings on this stone slab

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and rejected them.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he certainly justified it being skeptical of them, right?

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: What is this origin?

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Why does this suddenly work?

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you had done some comps to the Peter Jackson Nenye.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's not because we see this ring later on and it's clearly not the same

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: design.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought, I got excited as I was doing the, uh, uh, you know, frame by frame,

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh wait, could you, you know, and then later on when I actually

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: watched the whole trailer instead of just trying to do a scene by scene analysis

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03]: first, I was like, oh no, never mind.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I just think we're so far away from the Peter Jackson rings in this.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just let it go.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's really too bad.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm afraid I just, I have yet to see any of them that I like.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, you point out later with Doran's, I'll go to it now.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Doran III has this ring that's very jeweled.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big, big blue jewel.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's actually the only ring, the Doran rings are the only ones that make

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_04]: sense, I think to have huge jewels because they play on the greed of the dwarves.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We know that Sauron had trouble dominating the dwarves, but the dwarves did become

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_04]: hoarders because of them.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And somewhere I've seen a picture of all seven of them on a round table, you know,

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_05]: round ladder or some kind and they're all like that.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_05]: They all have these big chunky gems.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So that I'm cool with.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_05]: They're also a big chunky design in terms of the bands.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, that that at least, I think makes more sense.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I just think that the Elven rings that they've come up with are not what I

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_05]: think of when I think of delicate Elven work.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you write that you think he's wearing the he's wearing Sauron's

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: ring already, huh?

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Who?

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Doran III.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, later on.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's a, there's the shot later of Doran IV and Doran III talking

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's telling him to take off the ring and I'm pretty sure that

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that's the same scrolling down to that part there.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's very far away.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not this ring that we're seeing hit the ground here.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah, I'm just comparing these ring designs with Doran III.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I think, I wonder if this blue ring that we are seeing hit the

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_03]: ground is later when we see the three Elven hands with rings on

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_03]: them.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if that's that same blue ring.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think you're looking at two of the three Elven rings being

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_04]: thrown down here.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the third one is flung so hard that it bounces off of

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_05]: the platter and falls down at the feet of Glau.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there was a third one.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I did, I did the right one.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh boy.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I clipped the thing too early or too late.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk about more accessories.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_04]: We have this nice hat made for Sauron, we think.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you've got a similarity to the Jackson films for this.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I again like the ring.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh, you know how, you know, I was starting to,

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't watch the whole trailer first.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I started trying to take it apart from the moment I watched it.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I was looking at this crown and it is very visually similar

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to the Peter Jackson Sauron crowned, but it is different.

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely different.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It speaks the same visual language, but it is not the same in design.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And this thing I can't quite tell because the person,

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: the creature that's carrying it, it's like on a base

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and maybe it's being held by some other device.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we've got these three very protruding spiky things,

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: which again speak to the Jackson design, but it is definitely not the same.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was thinking about, and Marilyn, you say you had a spoiler,

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: so I'm kind of skipping over you.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I just wanted to say that the spoiler came directly from Pandemic A.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, show runners, let us watch the show.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Just let us watch the freaking show.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't need you to explain everything to me.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, my point was this is very Jackson Sauron agree with you, David?

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if because we know by the third age,

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Sauron is bound to his dark lord form.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_04]: He cannot take on a fair form anymore.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I know why in the second age, but I think this might be how it happens

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_04]: in the show is that this is going to bind him to this form.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps that's part of Adar's plan is to make him sort of bound to the appearance

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_04]: of Mordor rather than able to walk freely among the elves and men.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Waffle, waffle, waffle.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Because the way that this thing is being carried,

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03]: it's being supported by something else.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So the creature carrying it isn't touching it.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe it's got some sort of static charge to it

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't want to get zapped by it.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's got evil juice.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, exactly.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want just quickly to go back on something.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_03]: The first three shots we have Halbrind, we have rings and we have a Sauron crown.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like boom, we're in Tolkien's world instantly, right?

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They're not here and there.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some drone shot flying over landscape.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, no, boom, boom, boom, rings, evil dude who becomes another even,

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, when he takes his full form, he's really evil.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And that crown speaks to what we remember from the Jackson films.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So they really instantly grab us with the lore and both the modern context for Lord of the Rings

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_03]: with the Jackson films as well as, you know, what Tolkien was laying down with his stories.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, and they certainly spent plenty of time giving us beautiful landscapes in the first season.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that was before James Cameron kicked them out of New Zealand.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It may also be that they're not going to be doing as much of that because they filmed season two in the UK.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So...

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Guys, why are we doing this?

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Why are we doing Avatar in New Zealand over the Lord of the Rings?

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Get over yourself, James Cameron.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, I kind of like the fact that we can see English landscapes.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_04]: That's incorrect, Marilyn.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Having just been there, I will say,

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_03]: writing around on the trains.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It is.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: The English landscape is something, right?

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It really is.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is what inspired, well, a lot of what inspired Tolkien to write the eros.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it inspired Tolkien before a lot of it was built up too,

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_04]: which is why Peter Jackson went to New Zealand for it.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: As well as...

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, yeah, I wonder...

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There's, and there's always business reasons too, right?

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: You never film something big like this without, you know...

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Taking those things into account.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But that will be something to keep an eye on too in season two.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So we've talked a little bit about Doran.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: He comes back later, so let's save that for later.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's move on to Adar, standing within Orc Army.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn, you were saying this might be a younger Adar?

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Make your case.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, part of my case is Lofo.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, for people who have not been following House of the Dragon,

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Lofo is an acronym for...

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Watch and find out.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Watch and find out, yes.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's another way of saying spoiler alert or, you know, that sort of thing.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I think because we do know that Adar was at one point the faithful servant of Seldron.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: He's in a location which he's not going to find in the current morctor that he just created.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So it can't be moving forward because I don't think you can build up that kind of a castle that quickly.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think it has to be a before.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're almost making it look like he is not quite as disfigured as he was.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Although, of course, that might be because of the change in actor.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know. Just just looking at that face, it somehow to me looks younger.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But I also am reasonable be certain that this is happening in a context in which you have asked me not to say anymore.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So I won't.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Payne and McKay are a little mouthy lately.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have to be careful about what they have to say.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you liked the visual language?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. The seething horde that's standing behind him and they're writhing.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_03]: They're seething.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Can I say it? Seething.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It just felt really great.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He's stuck still vertically standing up.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things in photography and other visual stuff, a vertical line is strength, stability, calmness.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But it just presents a very strong, solid thing to focus in on.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: He's perfectly still.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Just slightly off center of the film, head and shoulders above everything else and below him are this seething mass of orcs.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just paints just such a great thing.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got this ocean of creatures that he's got at his command, but he's calm, locked in still.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He knows who he is.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: He knows what he wants and he knows how he's going to get it.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just, I don't know if it feels good.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we had an actor change, but so far, I think we get one line of dialogue from him in this trailer and we get this one visual image.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm good.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they've got a good choice on their hands.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Very good.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Off to the elves again.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: We're back in Linden.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a little loomy out, but it looks like maybe the tree is healed or healing.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you had some confirmation on the ring.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in this scene, we clearly see it's a white silver ring.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Silver often is referred to as white in these terms and it is definitely not the Jackson ring.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And it falls at, this is Gladrile's dress here.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We see it bounce right to her feet.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I don't know the tree.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Trees not looking great to me.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if these, and I don't know if this is one of those trailer tricks where the scene of the trees were coming around to it is a separate scene from when the ring falls down these steps.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It could very well be because she's standing in the right place.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some other things that could possibly be correct, but it's hard to say.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that what's going to happen is Gladrile is going to pick up the ring, put it on and the tree is going to immediately start healing.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And everyone's going to suddenly be sold on using these rings.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a good call.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I definitely think this is the elves being gathered to see the tree healed.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And the only question is, how are they going to do that?

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And John is probably right that it's going to be through the power of the Mithril ring.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The Silmarithril?

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_05]: The Silmarithril.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still holding out hope that part of the reason why Sauron went directly to Lindon is to undo something that he had done to make the tree stick work.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Marilyn, hope is never mere.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Precisely, even when it is meager.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just think that this is going to be part of it.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it's possible that Sauron was making the tree stick.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I think in this version of the Legendarium of this show, I think it is true that that Mithril is made from a Silmaril.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And that is enough.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Even if there is some darkness of Sauron involved with the ring, which in the main token Legendarium,

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_04]: we know that the rings are generally free from the influence of Sauron.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_04]: That gets a little hazy later, but the point is, even if there is a little bit of influence because he helped teach them how to make it with alloys.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. There is a back door, as it were.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is called the One Ring.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a little bit of Neo in the Matrix kind of thing going on here.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that the fact that the Silmaril energy will be healing it and they know that it's related to the Silmarils.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that the Noldor will be all about it once they see it actually work.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure. So in this case, it's a question of Wafo and none of us know what's going to happen.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So now we have Galadriel actually picking up the ring.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: We kind of talked about what might happen, but...

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Did we already basically talk about this?

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you put your theory out of she puts on the ring and it does something.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is, of course, we have Elrond shouting no.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And again, it feels like this is all one scene.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they're playing Trixie with cutting it up.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm guessing that he's not happy about her doing that.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Well, Noah's usually a pretty good indicator of distress at that point.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't...

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not comfortable with this vibe.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_05]: They're making even the Elven rings look seductive and whatnot.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And Elrond's probably not wrong that this is in effect doing exactly what Saladron wants.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But is he saying no to her putting on the ring or no to something else?

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we don't know, maybe there's stuff that we're not seeing yet in this scene.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So we don't know what he's actually reacting to.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_05]: They may be Trixie as you were saying.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It could be Gil Galad throwing down the rings, right?

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, don't waste those.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Although subsequently there are scenes in which he basically says Galadriel is responding to his doubt.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I really do think that Elrond is very reluctant to make use of these rings.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But we know that by the time of the Lord of the Rings, he is very much a ring bearer.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, right now he's not even himself a ring bearer.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So he's just watching us all as how herald of Gil Galad.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And even as it might be a little bit hypocritical, but there is the lower reason behind it.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_04]: He is the one who cautions Boromir.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You cannot use the one ring for yourself, right?

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go to...

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_04]: We got the logo shot.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And you've got something to say here.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Just it was a nice little thing that as we get the crossfade to the next shot, the Prime logo

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: becomes corrupted.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It loses its lusty golden shine and starts to tarnish from the middle out.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just thought, okay, nice one.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Nice little fun little trick there to let us know what's going on.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Subtly let us know what's going on.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a good catch.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Then we get this quick shot of, you know, the tree nice and healed and everyone's happy

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_04]: and go lucky together.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: We've already talked about what could and could not be healing the tree.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Then we get the ring bearers with their hands together.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's a bunch of...

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you say your phrase, Marilyn?

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very funny.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, the three extra rings are just high king wing.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_03]: High king bling.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, Gail Gallad is just like, what ring do I put this...

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_04]: What finger do I put this ring on?

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know any room left.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Run out of fingers.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's interesting then because I picked up on that as well is that there are six

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: rings.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But if the blue ring that we see fall with the white ring is the other one that

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03]: is the other one, then yeah, those other two gold rings and then that other sort of

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_03]: opalescent ring that's on his index finger, they're just king bling, as you say.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, he's inherited whatever remaining jewels there are of the

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Noldor.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_05]: He is the one remaining high king.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_05]: So all of those various lines just all kind of feed into him.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_05]: So whatever remains is for him to use as display and whatever else in his role as

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_05]: high king of the elves.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm scrubbing back and forth here on this a little bit and as Galadriel is

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_03]: walking up the steps to Gil Gallad, there's another person standing in

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: front of him.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Gil has his hands out with his fingers splayed already.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_03]: The other unidentified figure is lifting their hand up as Galadriel is

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: mounting the steps.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think these two scenes are absolutely back to back.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So seeing the three hands like this, the preceding shot of the tree is

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the sequence is the shot.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So whoever that third figure is that's standing there talking next to Gil,

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to call him Gil because we're both like that.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to get added for that one.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That's too casual.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_04]: This is high king Gil Gallad.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I am freaking out about my pronunciations already.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And I've already been saying Gil Gallad a little wrong.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_04]: It really should be Gil Gallad.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Gil Gallad.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, the person next to Gil Gallad is that third ring bearer

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that's wearing the red ring.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And we all know who this is.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think we should just use the name because he comes up later in

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_04]: here.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_04]: It's cured on the ship, right?

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_04]: He's been openly cast.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to be a major player this season.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And what a marvelous casting he has.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he looks great.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Looks great.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't he actually, isn't he from Foundation?

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He was Bell Riosi.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_04]: He was Bell Rios, yeah.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you guys have that already in the character guide?

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, there you go.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I did do it.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought you did.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I did.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been working on this for like two months, so I might figure,

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I might forget some things I put in there.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see if I can find him.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, while you do that, why don't we go to Elrond?

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you have all become collaborators, he says.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, just one more comment here.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder what it was that convinced Gilgallad to put that

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_05]: blue ring on when the last thing we heard him saying was,

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_05]: who is this man?

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he was like, oh, it's not a man.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a Maya.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm okay with that now.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that doesn't matter which Maya it is.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Works right up to the point where you hear the name Saldron

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and then that theory kind of is a little more dubious.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And you have some comments on the wisdom of Elrond, Marilyn?

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they really do seem to be putting Elrond in the place

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: of the wisest of them all.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they've made Galadriel very impetuous and so forth

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_05]: and she's definitely taken a strong hit through her trusting

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_05]: of Halbrond and her deception by Saldron.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Gilgallad, excuse me, Gilgallad is just not, I don't know.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_05]: He's beginning to show bits of wisdom here and there.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think Elrond is in the place of Observer.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So he's able to kind of stand back and watch all of this

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_05]: going on and think about it and process it.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And between that and the fact that he does have all this

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_05]: inheritance from elves and humans and his father's a star,

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I just think they've really chosen him as the perspective

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: of someone who is saying, let's look at this more closely.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you're all become his collaborators,

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_05]: the storyline that he uses.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And that might be an overstatement,

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_05]: but it also might be well to listen to what he's saying.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Elrond saying, you know, I might be young now,

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_04]: but one day I will be Hugo, what's his last name?

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Weaving.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Weaving.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Hugo Weaving.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And I will furrow my brow so hard that you will not be able

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_04]: to sleep at night.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll take this Elrond any day over Hugo Weaving's Elrond.

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: It just, this is the man who is his kind of summer

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and he keeps showing that in so many different ways and times.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I love it.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I absolutely adore Hugo Weaving's Elrond,

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_04]: but they indeed did not really capture the last homely house vibe.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't think you could have changed that much

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_05]: in the 60 or 70 years.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't have the math in front of me right now

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Remember, elves, they don't age that fast.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_04]: So we get this landscape shot.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: What's going on?

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_04]: David, you have a theory?

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It looks like Gladriela and Elrond on some sort of side quest.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_03]: They're, you know, riding horses through the forest.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And then if you look on when we get the wide shot,

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_03]: there are structures in the hillside there

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that look very elvish construction to me.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they're riding from Lindon to Elreguian

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and if show owners have finally decided to show us

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: that that's not just an afternoon stroll.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: They're not jetpacking over.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Not the impression they gave us in the first season.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_04]: There was a very strange jet pack

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_04]: from basically the Southlands to Elreguian, wasn't it?

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That was and that's a hike.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a big hike.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why you did that.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Jazz hands.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Indeed.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, just let's let's progress the plot here

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: because it's the last episode

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and we don't have time to explain that it actually took three months

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and besides if it did, how could this human

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: supposedly possibly survive that long?

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's another landscape shot of the mountains

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_04]: and Marilyn, you've got Miromir.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even remember this name.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So can you explain?

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Miromir is the lake into which the first dourin

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: looked and saw the crown of stars over his head.

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's on the eastern side of the Misty Mountains

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_05]: at the eastern door of Khazadum.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I was looking into the mountains and saying,

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_05]: okay, here's a whole bunch of very impressive looking mountains

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and there's a body of water close by.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_05]: If they're following Middle Earth geography,

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Miromir is about the first if not only place

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I could think of that would match this

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_05]: but I'm sure listeners please write in

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and tell me what I was looking.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Right at the beginning of that shot,

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a lake to the left of the frame.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, I'm in.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And there are if you...

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: The shot tricks you because as the horse riders

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_03]: exit onto the right, we then move in sort of to the left

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and we sort of circle...

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very Peter Jackson helicopter

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: around a mountain ridge type of shot

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: but there's at least five figures on foot

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: climbing this ridgeline, traversing up this ridgeline

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and then we cut to the next shot of this sort of broken bridge thing.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So whatever side quest these folks are on,

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_03]: who is it?

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: There's at least five people there.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What are they up to?

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Where are they going?

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Where are they coming from?

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean if they are else going back to Khazadum,

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_05]: they're kind of on the wrong side of the Misty Mountains

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_05]: so that kind of spoils it for me

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_05]: but it could be that they're going to Khazadum

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and the lake was just a pretty lake that happened to be there

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_05]: as part of the scenery and I left it in.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_04]: All I can say is...

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Very nicely put, very nicely placed.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: John likes his sound effects.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, but it's been perfect for this conversation

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_05]: because Gandalf has no memory of this place

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: in Khazadum and neither do the rest of us.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Well done John.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Alright, so speaking of Khazadum,

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn we got into a dispute in the writings next

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_04]: which is this shot of...

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_04]: To me it looks like two perspectives of the same shot

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_04]: where there is a bridge that is broken

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and one shot it's behind Galadriel and Elrond

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and then the other shot it's looking up at them.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no I agree with you.

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It does look like it's the same shot.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just initially looking at the things that they're...

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: From behind them going forward

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_05]: it looks as though I thought that might be some stone and so on

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: because this bridge is fairly complex

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and complicated structure with the poles on either side

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and the card figures on top

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and I can't think of a place

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_05]: that would have that kind of structural

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and architectural stuff going on

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_05]: with trees growing around it.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Well I will speculate here baselessly

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and say, you know, Beleriand sank, right?

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And ostensibly Linden would have been connected

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: to the rest of Beleriand.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And I wonder if it's just that...

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the bridge that used to connect Linden

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_04]: to the rest of Beleriand.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_05]: The thing is there was a whole mountain range

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: between Berlauri and the rest of Middle Earth.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Marilyn don't shoot me down that quick.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm so bad at the geography.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I just put out an episode with me in Dube-a-du-be-a.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Which was spectacular and anybody

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_05]: at all interested in Tolkien

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_05]: should definitely listen to it.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_05]: You guys were fabulous.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_04]: He's great and he's really good at the geography

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm really glad he came on the podcast.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I was terrified to cover that chapter.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I was going to have to bribe somebody

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_04]: to cover it with me.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I gave him a list of five chapters

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: and he said, I want a Beleriand and its realms

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and I couldn't believe it.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Well that's what you want to have at your site then.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I was super impressed with him.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, David, do you have any thoughts on this?

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just that from what we're seeing

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_03]: with Gladriael, with her quiver

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and bow here

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and what Elrond is wearing as well.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a proceeding scene

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_03]: to later on when we see them fighting.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's mixed in with the shots

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_03]: of the cavalry charge and whatnot

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's of that same scenario

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_03]: so this is something just before

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_03]: they get into some trouble.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and alas

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_05]: if this is connected to them fighting the Whites

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_05]: this is going to be something

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_05]: that I think is going to make a lot of

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_05]: the ones who really want it

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_05]: to follow the books very unhappy

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_05]: because I just can't think of any peoples

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_05]: who have this type of capability

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_05]: who were active

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_05]: in the region of

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_05]: the barrow downs, the old forest, etc.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_05]: That happens in the third age.

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Well so does the Balrog.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so there's maybe a little

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_05]: more seepage going on here than

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's going to get real squishy

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and we're just going to have to live with it.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so too.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The appearance of Whites

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_05]: don't trouble me that much.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish they hadn't called them Barrow Whites

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_05]: because then you could say

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Kings and Queens of the proto-Aherum

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: they'd have to have crossed the Misty Mountains

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_05]: but hey, they're Whites, they can do stuff.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any chance that

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_03]: these two are on a quest

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: on a side quest kind of thing

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to do something in the south

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_03]: lands and to find

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_03]: what's his name?

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he El Dor?

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, to find

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Arandir.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think they really care about Arandir that much.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we see him fighting later

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and I need to look a little bit more closely at that

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: fight, those shots

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but I just

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm wondering if there isn't something

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: going on there.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm having a hard time imagining

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: within the context of the story

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_03]: where this is

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and why they are

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_05]: dressed up for

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_05]: forest adventures

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_05]: forest adventures, hunting, combat.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they're going to be too busy to get down there.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I think

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_04]: what we are

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04]: more likely to see is a team up between Arandir and Isildur.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, clearly.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_05]: We're already seeing that.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Unquestionably.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Because at some point

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_03]: from a story construction thing

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_03]: if you've got

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: we don't want too many threads out there, right?

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Are they going to start to collapse some of these story threats?

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I really think they're going to keep

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_05]: the south for

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_05]: the Numenoreans and for whoever is around Pelagir.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Arandir and any other Sylvan elves that survived

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_05]: are going to be the only elves that are going to be represented in that.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_05]: But it looks like

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Arandir and Isildur are going to be

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_05]: the buddy cop thing.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_04]: They sure are.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Alright, one last shot before we take a quick break.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_04]: The

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_04]: shouting or I feel like we're all just making jokes about it.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, looks good.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Great, great practical effects.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: This could be from that shot earlier

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_03]: of the seething masses.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so, yeah.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of has the same lighting feel.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_05]: John also tells us that this is what he looks like before he's had his coffee.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But he warned.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He warned.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Alright everyone, we'll be right back after a quick break.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Go get your coffee, John.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_04]: have

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this may be by his design.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Elrond says as we see

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_04]: how brand

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_04]: looming

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_04]: looks like looks like a Reggiano doesn't it?

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, the Howlbrand form is going to be mostly in a Regaeon.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how they're gonna do the big reveal of Middle-Earth's very own Lucifer.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's something about that tower that made me think of the sea which could lend

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_05]: some credence to it, him being still being inland on.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we have enough information.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Or Pilargir, right?

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's a port city.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_05]: You really wanted to go to Pilargir.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he's going to Pilargir.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_04]: We got explicit mention of Pilargir last season, right?

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_04]: We got explicit mention that the Southlanders are going there right now.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a high probability that on his way back to the Elven territories,

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_04]: he is going to pay a visit to his...

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Because at the end of the day, what does Sauron want, right?

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_04]: He wants underlings.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And he has a whole group of underlings already who think he's the bomb.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and he also has a whole bunch of orcs ready made.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But are they with him yet?

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Gathered together by Adar.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, because Sauron will be with him by the time he's done with Adar.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_05]: There has to be a big confrontation between the two of them,

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_05]: if not this season and the next season.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I hope they're not going to wait that long.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really think that right now, his focus is on ensnaring the elves.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_05]: That's why he decided to glom on to Gladriel and do all that sort of thing.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I truly think at this point for him, the Southlanders just are not of any account.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_05]: He may have some action already going on in Frun.

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_05]: We know that eventually his focus will turn to Numenor.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And there he has a much better quality of human.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_05]: He would think to, you know, ensnare.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_05]: But right now it's got to be about the elves because in his mind,

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_05]: they are the only ones who could possibly interfere with his big plans.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Although he has seen the might of Numenor already, hasn't he?

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_05]: He has.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Is a difference from the books.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Definitely, definitely.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he's saying, OK, these guys seem to be on a good path

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_05]: from my perspective anyway.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll just let them be for now.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just going to make a few more rings to ensnare some of the major dudes

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_05]: of Numenor and I'll be all set.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, OK.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to posit one more thing about Anatar.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Do go for it.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_04]: How powerful do we think that Sauron is compared to Adar?

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Because yes, he is a different class of being.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But Adar is one of the first orcs, if not the first orc.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Right? So is he on the level of someone like

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Fingolfin who wounded Morgoth?

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Because Sauron's a leveled down Morgoth.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So even if Adar is a leveled down Fingolfin,

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_04]: think he's he's Sauron's going to have a tough battle ahead of him.

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_05]: By the time Fingolfin attacked Morgoth,

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Morgoth had already dispersed so much of his power

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_05]: into all of his creatures, into the creatures he was creating,

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_05]: into the landscape, the whole idea of Middle Earth becoming Morgoth's ring.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Every time he created new beings,

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_05]: he had to put some of his own power of malice into them.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's having to control them.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_05]: He was pretty weak.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_05]: When Fingolfin called him to single combat.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And I mean, I'm not in any way trying to diss.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So please don't at me.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_05]: The achievement of Fingolfin by any matter means.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But Fingolfin, I think was also much stronger than the Adar that we see now.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Oh, for sure.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: After all, Morgoth was also in order of magnitude stronger than Sauron.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all I was trying to say. And. Oh, absolutely.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_05]: No, absolutely.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he frittered away a lot of that strength,

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_05]: whereas I think Sauron is definitely, you know,

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_05]: gathering his strength together and eventually going to pour all of it

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: along with all of his malice into the ring.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So guys, I'm in my prime.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't don't mess with me. I'm in my prime video.

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So one more thing on this shot.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Not a lore detail, but a visual detail.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is connected to the first shot we see of him walking

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: through the Park Holis of the.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, there's a horse behind him.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He's wearing clothes that are tattered and looking very similar to what he was before.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So and his hair and just physical appearance.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think wherever he was in that first shot, this is sort of the

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, evening time of that same location.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, and to, you know, towards John's point here,

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_05]: that is a lot more building.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Then I usually then I think of when I think of Lindon,

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_05]: it does look like there's a lot more structures around,

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_05]: which would imply then that he has gone back to Oregia.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm not sure why, but I'm sure that if that is the case,

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_05]: the showrunners and the writers will have had some reasons for him to be there.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to posit one more theory here before we move on.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, which is

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: is it possible that he used one of his greatest weapons, which is his tongue?

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And he went to Polar Gear and he said, look, I, you're rightful king.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm angry.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The Numenoreans came and they claimed to help us, but then they abandoned us.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_04]: They went back on their ships without ever, you know, taking it,

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: giving us a second thought and left us to find our own way to Polar Gear.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And I wonder if he's going to so division between the men of Middle

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Earth and the Numenoreans to again, just try to cause chaos that prevents

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_04]: the peoples of Middle Earth from uniting against him.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It surely could be.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I just don't know that the Numenoreans have been in

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Polar Gear long enough to be producing that kind of architecture.

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_04]: David, are you typing an essay over there?

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Just writing, catching up on some note taking for the next

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in a couple of scenes ahead.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, OK.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear it with a two loud?

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just busting.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You see, now that I made that joke, I don't have to edit out the clickety clacks.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So anyway.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's go.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go to the hand in the water.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Looks like Kyrdons hand, right?

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think so. The red ring. Yeah.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_05]: It looks like the hand that we saw when the three hands were together.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And I find it interesting that they spent so much time

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_05]: on this scene, you know, with his hand above the water and then his hand

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_05]: going into the water and then his hand below the water.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, what?

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is so this looks to me like a saltwater.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I agree. The corals and whatnot.

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And that that particular kind of fish, I'm guessing.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: What do we what lore is there about that ring

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: that he might have?

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: He might be wearing here because the other interesting thing is,

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: is that the fish swims right up to the ring.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And is there something about this ring that is?

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like why is this person putting their hand in the water?

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Why are exactly?

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Why are they showing us this?

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And is there something that this ring

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: does, whatever powers it helps to channel focus, create what have you

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that the fish is the fish swimming to it is a little clue about what this ring does.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the Ring of Fire, it warms hearts.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It gives you a little jage.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It's supposed to encourage and support, perhaps.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I might be pushing that a bit strongly in terms of

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: isn't in the ring that ends up with Gandalf that he's carrying the whole time.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly. Yeah, might have made a couple of habits

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_04]: to get away from the hearth for a little while.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought Brian was a little bit.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of lore, he was given one of the three because he was farthest away

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_05]: because he was on the coast and they figured it would be safe there.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But they distributed the rings once

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: they taken them off after Sauron put on the one ring.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: They distributed them so that they would be harder to find.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And so initially,

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Gil-galad wound up with two.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_05]: He ran up with both the Ring of Fire and the Ring of Air.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But then he gave the Ring of Fire to Kyrdran,

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_05]: who took it still further away from Eregeon.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_05]: That was their whole intention.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Plus, let's face it, he's now, unless you count on Daar,

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_05]: he's the oldest living elf remaining on Middle Earth.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Or are the Avari older?

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so because he was the same time as the Avari, wasn't he?

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just that he went all the way to the edge of the water.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no. Kyrdran.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Kyrdran, yeah. OK, yeah.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're right there.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no. Gil-galad, powerful because I came.

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Powerful because the Noldor set so and

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah, fan or was a meanie.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So there's no nothing that I can think of

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_05]: that indicates how Kyrdran used that ring

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_05]: speculation time probably to encourage the remnant

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: of elves that were living at the at the haven.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_05]: To encourage them to stay and build the ships

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_05]: because he knew they were going to be needed to encourage himself

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_05]: because he had wanted from day one to go to Valinor.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was the Valar themselves who asked to stay

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and build the ships and learn even more than you'd already learned

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: of shipbuilding and sailing and all those other kinds of things.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So according to some of I think this is Unfinished Tales

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Lord, but I think he probably needed some part warming.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, probably in some of the watches of the night

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_05]: because his was a very, very, very long time waiting

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: for his heart's desire.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Especially did he witness the burning of the ships at Alcalande?

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Or was that too far?

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_05]: No, because he never left.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: He never saw Valinor until the very last ship sailed at the end of the four.

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But they burned the ships on the side of Middle Earth, right?

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, OK.

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he was I don't know what part of the coastline he was on.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he might have speculating.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_05]: He might not. Sure, sure.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we can we can say if this is a good topic,

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the history of Curedon and the history of the history

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_04]: of Elven seafaring is a good topic for a low cast.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm with it because he's one of my favorite elves.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go to the the figures being silhouetted by a burst of light.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: What is this, David?

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to go to you first.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I see it looks like a cave.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I see a lot of ice.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I see some structures that visually speak to me of that symbol

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_03]: that we had in season one, which was, you know, the symbol of Sauron,

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but really was a map location when you turn it the right way round.

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So it feels like that to me.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm just just wild speculation.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this have to do with the crown being impaled on somebody

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that we see a little bit later?

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hold that thought, David.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Funny enough, it's actually Lord Beesbury.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha ha ha ha.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm thinking back to the image that we saw on the teaser.

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Of the great castle suddenly going in ice everywhere.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right. Right. Right.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I think this is probably related to that.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_03]: OK. And you've got to be a Wafo sticker in the in the notes here.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_05]: So well, John put that there.

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I've yet to figure out how to get that to work on.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_05]: OK. I'm only learning as I go along with the whole intricacies of notion.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I have not set.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I just copied and put that in from my computer.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I made the Wafo sticker because we need it. Yes, you did.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, we do. All right.

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I have no idea what's going on here.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm just going to pull us on to Gilgallad,

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_04]: giving sort of doing a dressing down of Galadriel seems like.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure does. Yikes.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn, we were impressed by his toughness, huh?

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, as I said, he doesn't look like an easy confessor.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I would not want to be facing him in this mood.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's a spiky crown has a dual purpose.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, at least it's Laurel leaves and not,

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, spikes on a gate or something.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And David.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so the tree is looking pretty bare here.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It's looking pretty scruffy as he,

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Gilgallad sort of walks up to the the big

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: birdwatering dish there. Good catch.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't wonder if this is before the presentation of the rings

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that we see earlier on in the trailer and they're debating,

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, maybe the merits of maybe they're aware of the rings,

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: the rings have been presented or something like that,

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: but they haven't activated and put them on yet.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, as he says, we will discuss the rings once you have answered

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_05]: the question. Yeah.

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And is that man?

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Then there is oh, look, and this.

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So I am on my video player, you know, we made a

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: got a copy of this, you know, and I made a little

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_03]: standalone copy of it and I can sort of scrub back and forth using the scroll wheel

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: on my mouse. There are some people walking up in the woods behind them.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So there this may be a prelude to the later scenes that we see with these

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: in the same location

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: because there's some colors in the dresses there.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing that is interesting, I'm sort of I can kind of frame by frame,

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: scrub back and forth.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And when we have the shot of Gilgallad talking down to

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Galadriel with Elrond in the background, there is a leaf that falls

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: on the in the scene.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not by accident.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's no accidents in these shots.

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And then as the leaf finishes falling, Elrond glances up

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to the tree where like as if he's looking at like, where did this leaf fall?

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So just interesting little details here about about this.

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that makes me think that this is before they activate the rings

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because later we see the tree more healthy.

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent catch. I completely agree.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Very nice.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_04]: We're at a yada, yada stage of the outline where we've got

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_04]: a head shot of Sauron followed by a little quick

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: shot of Kala Brimbo leaning against the door face forward.

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Closing the door. Yeah, I guess. OK. All right.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: From the weather outside.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, there we go. I think we've answered.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_04]: It is frightful.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we've answered the question of where

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Halbrand is he's he's there with Kala Brimbo.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah. Or does look similar. Yeah.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's raining in that second shot of Halbrand that we see.

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a rainy skies outside.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And then in this, we can see that it's raining outside.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why Kala Brimbo is closing the doors here.

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, it's a hilarious good.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I putting together a great job, David.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So Halbrand comes back to Kala Brimbo.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, hey, we got my work to do.

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Kala Brimbo goes, no, no, get out.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Galadriel told me you're Sauron and he

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Halbrand literally comes back on a fucking wig

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: and Kala Brimbo was like, yeah, come on in.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I think you're right, John, because I've been wondering

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_05]: ever since I saw that they were still using Halbrand with elves.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_05]: How are they going to make this transition?

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Are they going to? Is he going to just say, actually,

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_05]: this is who I really am.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just putting myself in a more humble form

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_05]: so that I wouldn't overwhelm you with my gloriousness.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. I wonder if.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if they're trying to make it so that Kala Brimbo

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: does know it's Sauron, but he has plausible deniability.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I don't think in the lore they knew it was Sauron.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they just knew that he wasn't to be trusted

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_05]: because he was blocking his mind from everybody.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And it wasn't until later on that the S name was applied to him.

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But I may be wrong on that listeners right in.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And also in the lore, Mithril was not from the Silmaril.

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think we're OK stretching things here.

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, listen, the amount that has been stretched already

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and the little stretches we might do are probably going to be overlooked.

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like butter over too much bread.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: There you go.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So we've got the whites now.

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about it.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Marilyn, you have a lot more feelings about this than I do.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't really have a lot of feelings about it.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm not of the perspective of, oh, this is impossible.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: They weren't till the third age because they were new.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, all that is perfectly true.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And from a strict lore perspective, this is anachronistic.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's exciting for the first time

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_05]: somebody gets to depict whites on screen.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's probably a good part of why they decided to do it.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I had posted something on the discord about

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_05]: you could posit that the proto-Rohirrim on the eastern side

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: of the Misty Mountains had already started doing burial mounds for their kings

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_05]: because they certainly did it by the time they became Rohirrim.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And so if you had allowed for that geographic area,

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: it could be perfectly possible to have whites.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And in fact, it makes sense in terms of the Lord Hulking news

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_05]: because we see whites most prominently in the Icelandic sagas.

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Where we get the Barrow whites are

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_05]: creatures that inhabit a body in a Barrow,

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: which is what we're talking about here as well.

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_05]: They're not dead bodies that were buried in a barrel that come back to life.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Although sometimes they are.

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It just depends on which version you're reading.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's definitely more historical connection

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: of whites to the northern sagas and so forth.

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, as you said, the barrel thing is silly.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So nostalgia button just hit the nostalgia button and move on, David.

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But you have some thoughts here too.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I am seeing five figures coming out of the mist here.

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: They look really scary with the blue eyes.

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a full moon.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We've got some elves ready to kick some ass.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm ready for some spooky fight scene stuff.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So this looks great to me.

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Setting aside any of the lore questions that we have

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: just from a television standpoint, this looks pretty cool.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It is the one sort of kung fu moment where everybody sort of

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: gets into their Avengers assemble fight scene.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But and I think we saw on an initial trailer,

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: this looked a little hokey, but I think this is looking better now

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that they've got some more post production on it.

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to say that this is the same party,

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_03]: the same group of elves that we saw running along the ridgeline

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_03]: earlier on the trail. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I remember either the show owners themselves

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_05]: or people involved with the production made a point of saying

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_05]: that these have been animated by unwilling spirits.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's a slightly different touch to either Tolkien or to this August.

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm going to find it interesting if that is the case.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: What they do with that and how they make that clear.

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So how did they get past the wall? That's my question.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like Jon Snow has something to say about this.

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_04]: We get a really quick shot of Gilgolad.

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, not Gilgolad.

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Celebrinboard doing a whole I've been a huge mistake face.

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we go to the beginning of a love story, it seems like.

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, is Anatar just coming out of light and flame.

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And the Celebrinboard just absolutely looks in love

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_04]: at a smirking Anatar who says he's a share of gifts,

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_04]: which if you don't know from the lore, Anatar means.

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But what is it exactly? Is it bringer of gifts?

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Lord of gifts. Lord of gifts. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, there's been already some interesting

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_05]: where I've heard that there has been some interesting scholarly writing

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: from a queer perspective about what these long lingering looks might be.

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'll be very interested to see how they play it and how when how it can be read.

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm shipping them.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, if they do something over,

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I will be astounded and and props to them for doing that.

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it makes a very interesting addition to this whole dynamic of

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_05]: how was Kellebremboer what unquote deceived?

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you could just build it all in the case

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_05]: if he wanted to exceed his grandfather, and that would be enough.

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But if you have this added layer,

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_05]: that really gives it a nice texture and some complexity.

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree, David.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Just looking at this, the the dialogue is he deceived me.

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Right? So that's a gladrile replying

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to Gilgallad about he's no man, you know, he deceived me.

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get the flame and then we get the voice over.

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He is Sauron, right?

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So were there they're disassociating the visuals from the voiceover.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And when she says he's Sauron, that's when we get the

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: what am I to call you when we get this, you know, flaming image of Anatar

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: coming out of the forge, maybe.

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's something about that.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because the forge is definitely behind him when we see him standing there.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I actually think those are the gates.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I think those are the gates that he shut.

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: OK.

[01:19:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that Anatar manifested

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_05]: through those gates and the fire that you're still seeing is the leftover flames

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: of his manifestation.

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm, you know, that's just my reading of it.

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's hard to say.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's because the scale of the size of this,

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that is the forge, because we do see a quick shot

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: later of an elvish workwoman opening or, you know, or like pulling on

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_03]: a lever that fires up the gate.

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And we see those sort of doors of the forge

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's about the same size.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think even when he says, what am I to call you?

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: We can see it in the background there.

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, well, you've got the frame by frame.

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. So you may be right.

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to say, though, for Anatar, the head is looking really weird.

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: The prosthetic changing of the physical.

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It just looks a little weird to me.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It does in this particular shot.

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like he's got some funky barrette thing going on, which,

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, lose that look.

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And it doesn't work for the magazine covers have looked fabulous.

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what they're doing in the shop.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that is just a bad angle for him.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you didn't get an Athern is good day.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, obviously he just came out of a flaming forge, you know, so.

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Fair enough.

[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Anatar then says our work begins now in Kelleyburn Boards workshop.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, pretty standard.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get a person riding a horse across a desert carrying.

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that a flag?

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would interpret that as some sort of standard or a banner of some sort.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Personal banner.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Representing a lord or a tribe or something like that.

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's a pretty rickety one.

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So it would go along with the

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the sort of a motley crew look of that we see with the people with face masks.

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, definitely. Yeah.

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I really think we're in Kroon, right?

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Because right where we this is a radical geographic change here going from there to here.

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's get into that.

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, David, you pulled the shot of the the telescope

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_04]: shot from the it looks like from Run of the Rangers here and or Raiders.

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_04]: What are they even Raiders?

[01:21:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get the Raiders and their masks, which are one of them

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_04]: is like a plague mask and then we have some other strange designs.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: What's what's everyone's thought on this?

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Marilyn, my first thought was sand people.

[01:22:05] They're the band.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, it just that's what I went to right away.

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure. Yeah.

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll be very interested to see if they even will photoshop in a

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_03]: will photoshop in a second.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: No, a second son on the

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_03]: earlier shot of the writer with the banner.

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I hope that they give us some sense of what those masks are all about.

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, there could be some rich,

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: ritual content to explore in that.

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think it could be a combination of anonymity and protection from the sun.

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I hope nobody falls into a Starlack pet.

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: The the first so we get the the writer

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and then we get the two figures, obviously Nuri and the stranger walking down.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get the first masked figure lowering their hand.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's definitely the telescope that they were looking through.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're connecting that.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But then I don't know if we jump into the line of writers here.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the first writer actually might be a woman, too.

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Just by physical form.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So but yeah, these are really interesting.

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: These are really kind of wild and outlandish.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Even the the armor on the horse almost looks like it's almost like dragon

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_03]: spine scales coming down. Right.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So right, right.

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It is a very unusual.

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Cultural image.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I could not say, oh, yes, this room.

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yes, the first one because of the long point he knows could be

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_05]: looking like a plague mask from medieval Europe.

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm not getting any particular cultural vibes from these.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: This whoever did these designs, very, very creative.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if it was John Howe initially or if it was somebody new altogether.

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, well, Rune is like the most blank slate thing.

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just going to ask that. Exactly.

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly.

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_05]: We know virtually nothing about Rune except it's in the east

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and it supplied Sauron with a bunch of armies.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. And they could.

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And so go ahead.

[01:24:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And the the two blue wizards went out that way.

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, maybe in some in some tellings

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_04]: because it's open can't make up his mind on anything.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_05]: In one age or another age again, depending on which telling.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And in going out into this unknown place,

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, out to the east or whatever, they could very have easily fallen off

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: cultural appropriation cliff in terms of right

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: be borrowing, using, you know, being inspired by steps.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Mungo Mungo, the Mongolian horse rider, who knows all kinds of

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: or just quote unquote Orientalism, you know, weird other stuff.

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And it looks like I can't like we were just saying

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't detect any particular individual cultural thing.

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm not, you know, yeah, I'm not an anthropologist per se.

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But this looks pretty cool design unique.

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Like they're they really did create something new for this.

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I appreciate that.

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I absolutely agree, David.

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_05]: When I first caught that shot of the rider across the desert,

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I got a sort of the Lawrence of Arabia vibe.

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure. Yeah, of course.

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the masks and I'm like, OK, fine.

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_05]: This is new territory.

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I love it. Yeah. Let's see what we've got here.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, again, blank slate.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_04]: It does seem like they're pulling in elements

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: that are not necessarily part of that.

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm I think this might be the thing I'm most nervous about.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah. Because it's there's no guard rails.

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: They can just do all kinds of wild stuff.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're they're already showing me that they're bringing in other things

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_04]: that are that I hold pretty sacred to myself.

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And if they mess up, Tom Bombadil, I'm going to be mad.

[01:26:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just going to say it now.

[01:26:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you're I'm not.

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to I'm not going to prejudge it,

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_04]: even though there's no yellow hat and I'm already angry about that.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But I wasn't a yellow hat.

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I know it had a blue feather in it. OK. OK.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Tom Bombadil.

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Bright blue, his yellow.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yellow boots were yellow boots.

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Boots that were yellow.

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Bright blue jacket is and his boots are yellow.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Boots are yellow. All right. All right.

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly. All right.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll back down on that.

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But my point is Tom Bombadil is certainly a jolly fellow,

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_04]: a merry fellow, and we barely see him crack a smile on this trailer.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm just hoping that it's a fake out.

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that as he talks to the stranger, he is like, well, that's all right.

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we'll set you up over here and this and that.

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_04]: He does have sage advice and he can be serious,

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: but he also has just a levity to him

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_04]: that makes you feel otherworldly.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I and it's such a unique thing in Tolkien.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: They couldn't even figure out how to put it into the movies.

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like they need to really like they could have left it out

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and it would have been fine.

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you're going to bring him in, you need to do it right.

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, could I put a possible piece of perspective before you?

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Not if it contradicts me.

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It offers an explanation for both.

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_05]: OK. This is the second age.

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_05]: This so far doesn't show a lot of similarity to the tomb

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_05]: of the third age that we all know and love.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_05]: It might have taken him a couple of thousand years to get to that point.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: We know he had to have traveled outside of the Old Forest

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_05]: because he had names.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_05]: He had names from the dwarves.

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_05]: He had names from humans.

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_05]: He had names from regions.

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_05]: He has now bounded himself to a very small location, which implies

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_05]: that he hasn't always been just stuck there.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And it could be that the jolliness and the joy

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and the love of his land and so forth

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: comes from having lived through some really tough crises

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and recognizing that the focus on the joy of life is what's

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_05]: become important and valuable to him.

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_05]: He may be figuring himself out as well as much as a stranger in this at this point.

[01:28:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to argue for and against myself now.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, let me hear it. OK, for myself is.

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if you were talking about lifespans here, he's eldest, right?

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_04]: He is eldest.

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And if we're saying that Elron can't change that much in 60 years,

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_04]: why don't they come bomb it open chains that much in 2000 years?

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_04]: At the same time, perhaps if Tom Bombadil is this mystical

[01:29:01] [SPEAKER_04]: figure that we don't know who he is, perhaps Tom Bombadil appears as he's needed.

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And I like that.

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And perhaps the hobbits needed someone joyful

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: to get the warmth back in their hearts before they went and faced the ring rates again.

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I like that a lot, Sean.

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's lovely.

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And the stranger doesn't need that, right?

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_04]: He needs somebody who is serious, has sage wisdom

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and is ready to direct him on his path.

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, I did find that a touch ironic.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Because again, the third age Bombadil

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_05]: clearly is not about doing.

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_05]: He's about being by then.

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And so now in the second age,

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Bombadil he is about doing, but he's telling other people to do.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So right, you know, that that was an interesting

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_05]: alternative or perhaps it's just on his own quest.

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Could be, could be trying to figure out,

[01:29:58] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, recognizing a huge enormous danger.

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. And trying to figure out what is his contribution?

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_05]: What can he provide or not provide?

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's interesting because my own headcanon of what is Tom Bombadil

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: is that he's the embodiment of the original song.

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And the original song contains great sorrow.

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. And loss.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, in that sense, he can be whatever

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_05]: he just needs and wants to be at any given time,

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: which is another way of saying pretty much what you said.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm. I like that, Marilyn.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: David, can we get the Bombadil thoughts from you?

[01:30:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a lot of Bombadil thoughts.

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I am.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I can say honestly, I will be honest in my statements that when

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I was, you know, the times that I've read Lord of the Rings

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and we get to Bombadil just was like every a lot of other people

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like WTF flip, flip, flip, flip.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Moving on now before it gets more disrespect.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, not disrespect.

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Just just like I don't think I was able to understand.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have a place to put him.

[01:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He was so because he is so jolly and over the top and vivacious.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's a married fellow in that scene with the hobbits.

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you need some levity, because it's like, boy, this is going to suck.

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And so seeing him like serious and straightforward here

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in this, I was like, oh, wait, it took me a minute to realize

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, wait, is that that's Tom Bombadil?

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's not speaking in rhyme and dancing a little jig

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, what have you.

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it really, yeah, I don't know what they're doing.

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have any context.

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I just I'm a little bit nervous because when he puts on that hat later on,

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little bit like, oh, that's a little bit too on the nose in some ways.

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I am nervous about what they're going to do with Tom Bombadil.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So well, in an article, the showrunners said that they about one.

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they said about one fifth of their his lines will be Tolkien's words.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, which is so interesting to see.

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And he did.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Merry doll.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: You'd actually say that in the early encounter,

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_05]: this stranger says, who are you?

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And he does reply eldest.

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I like that.

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Ring it in. It's Tom Bombadil.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a foundation.

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a foundation.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he doesn't get that jolly until he finally gets Goldberry, you know.

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_04]: He needs his sweet.

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_04]: How does he describe her in the song?

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see. Goldberry, Goldberry, Mary, Yellow, Berrio, poor old Willowman.

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You took your roots away.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Tom's in a hurry now evening will follow day.

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Follow day.

[01:32:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I love I love the song of Tom Bombadil and I hope I like you too.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I and his his form of magic is very, very

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: a sumo line in nature, finish.

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He's very much like a character named Divayin

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and then from the color.

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So I've also loved him from the start.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And the people who use magic in the color do it by singing.

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. So.

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's go on to Farisone.

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: The first time we've seen him in the trailer,

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: it felt like he was much more prominent in the last one.

[01:33:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's it looks like he's in the Palantir.

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to cut the cultists thing there, John?

[01:33:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Where was I thought I oh, I went.

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I scrolled down.

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I went to a different Bombadil.

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry. Right. We yeah, we've got Nuri.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Same very honest line.

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Without her usual hairstyling, a kutrim.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_05]: To help my friend find his destiny.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that a good is that a good accent?

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's terrible.

[01:33:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Who is my dialogue coach?

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it was not good.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Who is my dialogue coach?

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to keep that Deadpool line forever.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get some Mothimoths.

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And if I could, if I could finish my Deadpool quote,

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I forgot about this till at least for me.

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It's who is your dialogue coach?

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like we're missing out on some very important exposition here.

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Correct. And go on.

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I have a question about this figure

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_05]: because the figure in the middle looks like

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the Elven figures who is a new addition to a Reggion

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_05]: to the Smiths.

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_05]: So I may be complaining to people who look alike.

[01:34:37] [SPEAKER_05]: But if in fact this is a spy for the cultists

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_05]: who are in turn reporting to Sauron.

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But why should they if Anatoid is already there?

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know. But.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting, sneaky armor that she's wearing.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I just put in a new picture in the in the notes there.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You can see her her designs a little bit more.

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's a staff that is being raised up as these

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Mothimoths, these light moths are flying up.

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And that looks very interesting because it's got these

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: two curved horns sort of coming up on out of them.

[01:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And with the snake thing, it looks a lot like that little

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: garbly mess we saw bubbling out of the ground in the last teaser.

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, nice catch.

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to decide if that staff looks anything like the

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_05]: staff we saw the three cultists using in the first season.

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Initial glance says no, but.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Are the dark?

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Are those what did we used to call them?

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: His sister, his sister.

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this is this where they are from?

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Are they dispatched from this temple?

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It appears to be so.

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_05]: That's my theory.

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And when the stranger banished them,

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: go back to the shadow from which you came,

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_05]: he did not destroy them.

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: He did not kill them.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_05]: They transformed into moths because it's a heck of a lot

[01:36:10] [SPEAKER_05]: harder to completely kill a being that is in all kinds of

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_05]: flittery pieces going over the place.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's one of their defensive mechanisms.

[01:36:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then in the teaser, we saw the moths coming through

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: the doorway and to the person with the bleeding palms.

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, I'm expecting that's going to be another

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_05]: interesting ritual of regeneration or.

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_05]: OK. Reforming or, you know, right, coming back together.

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I don't know if this person is about to dissolve.

[01:36:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Into moths or is building back up to wholeness after having been

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_05]: moth? I don't know.

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, by the way.

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep. We got to keep this breakdown moving.

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We are already an hour and 40.

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_04]: We're like halfway done with this.

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. So we're not even halfway through the trailer.

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So all right, let's keep going here.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Stranger loses Norayna Snow in a sandstorm rather.

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Seems pretty straightforward.

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And there's somebody behind Noray who I'm

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_05]: theorizing right now is the other half that we're going to meet

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_05]: out there in the east. Oh, yeah, you're right.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I can see that now. Yeah. Good. Good.

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Pick. We've done Bombadil to death.

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's move on to Farazone. Poor Bombadil.

[01:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Farazone. What's going on with the Palantir?

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: What's he doing? Yeah, that's just weird.

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool as visual though.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. Explodes sort of out.

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It kind of reminds me of.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I know there are some scenes in

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in some of the Star Trek Next Generation movies

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: where they're like in an astral mapping space

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and like things sort of, you know, or what is that?

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Minority report, you know, with the visual screens.

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It gives me a lot of that vibe, but it goes from blue to red.

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So we've got some flaminess here

[01:38:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that then transforms into the ballrog thing.

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So is that explicitly connected?

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Is he is he getting secret signals through the Palantir?

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_04]: The question is, who else has a Palantir because they're connected?

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And I think this may be the show

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_05]: winners being Trixie and Fault.

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_05]: OK. Cutting from one thing to another.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it may very well go into flame at the end,

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: but I don't know that there's necessarily a direct connection.

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to figure out is the Palantir actually fracturing?

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Because if it is, that is extraordinary.

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_05]: They were made to not break under just about any circumstances,

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_05]: except possibly being tossed in a mountain.

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Once the Palantir

[01:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so it kind of visually explodes

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and then we cut the point of view

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and then his hand is still there and it's flaming,

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but it still looks like it's holding its spherical shape.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But the light is coming out of it.

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's not. I'm going to say it's not.

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: OK, OK. All right.

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So speaking of fire, Anatar is looking into a fire.

[01:39:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Not a lot of info there.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But then we get the ballrog first big look at the ballrog.

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like we can all day, whether this is a good idea or a bad idea.

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_04]: But the reality is they are bringing in the ballrog to this era.

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think we're ever going to see an early third age

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_04]: piece of on screen media except the war over here.

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm OK with it.

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I understand the temptation.

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Somewhat sorry that they yielded to it.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm even more sorry that they decided not to have the.

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_05]: The proper descent of the line of Kings of Dwarves

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and that they have a durin, you know, three and four both existing.

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Generation to generation, you know, they didn't have to do that really.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, one of them could have been the door and probably the one who survives.

[01:40:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Unless they both survive through all five seasons.

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_05]: But I big leaf to doubt that the king,

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_05]: current King Doran is going to be around much longer.

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. But OK, they did it.

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_05]: It's done. Yeah, let's see how they handle it.

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Hopefully they will do some really interesting, exciting things with it.

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Looks cool. Visually. Exactly.

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It is really great.

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_05]: The rule of cool, I think in this case was was the guiding principle.

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And as the ballrog is falling, it it pull or, you know,

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: jumping or whatever it's doing, it manifests some sort of weapon

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: in its hand that grows and extends. Yeah, it looks really cool.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a massive staff kind of thing.

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it doesn't look like a whip at all.

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, maybe he missed those lessons and then go to the well.

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_05]: How many ballrog were there?

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Seven or so.

[01:41:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, they would have different,

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: different different tools and weapons.

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: That's possible, except they do talk about the ballrog whips

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_05]: were the worst of their weapons.

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know. He's branching out.

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: He sure is.

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_05]: He learned some tricks from, I don't know who, right?

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Some point in his sojourns.

[01:41:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So we've got some door in the door in action next.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got door in four trying to take door in threes.

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Ring off and then get and kick down the steps. Yep.

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Any other thoughts on that?

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_05]: The glance that we saw the very first time we saw

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_05]: very much reminded me of the look on Bilbo's face

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_05]: when Gathok was trying to convince him to leave the ring behind.

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_05]: The point at which he says, is it so hard?

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And Bilbo says, well, no, and yes.

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's the and yes face that I really see.

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Yes.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_05]: In in that previous image.

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And in this one, yeah, that previous image

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_03]: very big about 15 seconds in he's sort of the camera angle

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: is sort of the way it's angled and the way that he's looking up

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_03]: in the lighting. And then the ring is in the shot as well.

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's looking very he's actually holding an axe in that scene.

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's looking very sort of paranoid.

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the ring is is working its ill will on him.

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Right, which is interesting because, you know, again,

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_04]: the dwarves were not dominated by the rings.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_04]: They were made more greedy.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's not really the same thing as being dominated

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and seeking power. Yeah.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: They seek wealth but not power, right?

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Their their hearts were inflamed with gold lust.

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I call it that.

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_03]: If you look at that scene where

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: during three is sort of smacking during four back

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: where he goes flying into the wire pole

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_03]: on the on the up there behind the throne,

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: it's piled with gold plates and things.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's also got that same pile of gold in that first scene

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I was talking about where he gets the Bilba look on his face.

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, holding. Yeah, hoarding.

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Definitely hoarding.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And that definitely was something that could have been fired up by the dwarf.

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So now we've got some more yada, yada is I got to do.

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got the the boring of some molten metal by Anatar

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and another figure.

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got a bridge being destroyed in Khazadum.

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It looks like maybe I think so.

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think so. OK.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It seems that they can pass, you said. Excellent.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just joking around as always.

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Looks like a boulder falling down.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Yeah.

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps the ball rock knocked into something or one.

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. But then we get Disa and and Doren together.

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Disa says I'm afraid, Doren.

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Of what?

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder.

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, lots of things.

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: The change of power being destabilized

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: during three to during four, right?

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I think she's afraid of the ring

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and the effect it's having on. Yeah.

[01:44:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah. Could be.

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get the darkness will bind them to which I say,

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_04]: we get it, you read the poem.

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, seriously, exactly the same clip that we had from the teaser.

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I guess the point is you can't assume everyone saw the teaser.

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's make sure it's in the trailer. That's fine. Fair point.

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And I like I think it was David who said.

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Darkness will bind them can very easily mean

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: facing the darkness will bind together all of the peoples

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_05]: who are resisting Sauron.

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Did I say that?

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was you.

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, credit for it.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You enjoy it.

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds very honest.

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I know I didn't invent it myself.

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I heard somebody else say so. OK.

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead, take the credit.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Listeners writing, if you know, actually,

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_05]: take me down. Don't write it.

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Let David take the credit.

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, we want the feedback.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_03]: We want the feedback.

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a behind the eye and L in will.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a group of people there on the cliffside.

[01:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then if you look up above the word bind

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: up at the top of the cliff, there's a whole lot of people up there as well.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_03]: So whatever is happening here with.

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_03]: With what's her name here?

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Mariel. Mariel.

[01:45:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Mariel, thank you.

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Going into the water, is that the same scene?

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that what's happening here?

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It is. And I'm very.

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_03]: What is she doing?

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Why is she doing this?

[01:45:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Being forced to walk into the water to confront the sea monster.

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Remember earlier on, we saw the floaty white.

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Dress figure of the water and I was speculating

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_05]: that this was the drowning of Elendil's wife.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm afraid it's Mariel going through a purity test.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll call it that because it's basically like a witchcraft test.

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just gonna say, yeah, if you survive the monster, then then you're OK.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting. You don't know how to swim.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Gosh, what a shame. Right.

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. And if you can't see, gosh, even.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm sorry, you're not adapted to breathe underwater.

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, you're a witch.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Gee, I forgot about that part.

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is going to make for a very interesting ritual analysis

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_05]: in a couple years or however long it is before we start our second season.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Those rings and rituals.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So we'll see how long it takes them to do a season three.

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_04]: My God, these people need to do closer together seasons.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We can't go 20 years on a single show.

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Kevin is already aged significantly.

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I gotta say, I don't know if you've seen pictures of the actor is.

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, it's like, holy cow.

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_05]: David, you were going to say something?

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, just into the transition of the scene with Bombadil

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and the stranger looking over this parched land.

[01:47:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just going to comment on the next visual scene.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: We go from ocean wet abundance of water to an absence of water.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Nice.

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So like you said, we go back into ruin.

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got Bombadil and the stranger kind of looking together.

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Will you abandon them to their doom?

[01:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, Tom Bombadil is Mary Fellow.

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_04]: His boots are yellow and his jacket.

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, the point is not sure we get that bomb deal here.

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_05]: No, not yet.

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they're standing on the destroyed grows of the Ant Wives.

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is what we later know of as the Brown Lands in the third age.

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Because, you know, Bombadil would definitely be cognizant of,

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_05]: if not in communication with the Ant Wives.

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_04]: A displease Bombadil.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're back in Kazadum.

[01:48:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I see David, you go ahead.

[01:48:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a quick shot of an orc striking down.

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is from the siege that we see later on.

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, yeah, we go to Kazadum and we have the mirrors lighting up.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But things don't look very...

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_03]: This looks like after bad things have happened.

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_05]: What I think is somebody is using the mirrors as a weapon.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, interesting.

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_05]: The lights coming in from the hole in the wall

[01:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and striking on that incredibly powerful mirror,

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_05]: which is then reflecting.

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Are those two figures in the doorway there?

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Down there.

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_03]: There's certainly two figures up into the right of the mirror.

[01:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the mirror?

[01:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That, I mean, that could be a pretty potent way of keeping out enemies.

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And Kellebrenbor going, what have you done to me?

[01:49:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So he's committed.

[01:49:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He's realizing he's done something.

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He's made a very...

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the line?

[01:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: A tiny big mistake?

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I've made a huge tiny mistake.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Huge tiny mistake.

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you want me to put the gift?

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll put the gift in.

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry.

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I've made a huge tiny mistake.

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's get you a nice...

[01:49:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, read the next scene, David, while I get my huge tiny mistake.

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_05]: He's going to have some explaining to do.

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_03]: So then we get this city under siege,

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: clearly in Elven City.

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure where, again, geography.

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also with John, not fully up on it.

[01:49:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But I can see a bridge over water in the background.

[01:49:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we see Anatar walking as a flaming catapult missile

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: comes crashing across.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he wanted to get away before his nice robes were singed.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So is this...

[01:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Kelly Brimboar's...

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, probably a Regaeon.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a Regaeon.

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that that's what we're leading up to.

[01:50:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that that is going to be either the penultimate or finale episode of the season

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_04]: is the fall of a Regaeon.

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so too.

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we have Adar saying leave Sauron to me.

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And is that the sword that caused so much problems in the first season to his left?

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't think so.

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's his own sword.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:50:38] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's putting that crown on now.

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?

[01:50:42] [SPEAKER_04]: On somebody, yeah.

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's doing it.

[01:50:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So we...

[01:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Because one of my thoughts originally when I saw the crown was,

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_04]: is this his orc foraging thing,

[01:50:50] [SPEAKER_04]: is this how he was made into an orc from an elf?

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think so.

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is just...

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Unless he's turning another elf into an orc.

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think he is going to bind Sauron somehow to this dark form.

[01:51:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, whoever that is has longer hair.

[01:51:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Waffa, waffa, waffa.

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Indeed.

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Promise me Elrond.

[01:51:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So now just prior to that there's a figure that has several arrows sticking out of them.

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And it looks kind of like Galadriel to me.

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we know she's fine in the third age, so let's all calm down now.

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's all settle down.

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think those of us who know the lore know exactly who that is.

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:51:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.

[01:51:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Unless they're being really tricksy-gagyous.

[01:51:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're right.

[01:51:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're right.

[01:51:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We're trying to skirt...

[01:51:47] [SPEAKER_04]: See, it's hard, right?

[01:51:48] [SPEAKER_04]: With something like this where like,

[01:51:49] [SPEAKER_04]: this is all like the same soup we've been living in the lore of for like 50 years.

[01:51:54] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's really like 70 years now, isn't it?

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is something that is referenced in the lore of the Rings as the known history.

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And yet we're trying to not spoil certain plot beats that people might not know or remember specifically.

[01:52:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[01:52:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So then we have Elrond looking like he's about to, you know, caress Galadriel.

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_04]: But then there's a hand that we don't know if it's Elrond, Marilyn, you've got a theory.

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I do have a theory, John.

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was borrowed from Matt of Nerd of the Rings.

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I like this idea very much.

[01:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: These are two separate scenes.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And that the hand that is touching Galadriel's face is actually Kelleborn.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And you say you want Kellebrian to be born?

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, not immediately.

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, even elves have to take a little while to produce a baby.

[01:52:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Galadriel's like, I'm out for seasons three and four among maternity leave actually?

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think it's, I'm leaving now with this ring in the aftermath of destruction of Eurekion

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and going to a place of safety.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Because again, lore piece here, elves do not want to have children when there is violence

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and disruption in the world.

[01:53:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And perhaps Euron Deir is part of the way that she decides to settle with Sylvan elves.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I like that.

[01:53:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I like that a lot.

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that's her gateway.

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Because she's already encountered him.

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_05]: She's already encountered him in the first season.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It definitely looks like Elrond is wearing his armor here in this scene.

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_03]: What he's reaching out or who, you know, just before the reach out.

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it could be that she's telling him, I have to bow out at this point.

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:53:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I gotta get out of here.

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Promise me you'll be safe.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Promise me, promise me you will continue the fight against Sauron.

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Because right now.

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I gotta be it.

[01:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to be AWOL.

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to do this other thing.

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think she's realizing that like the fight for vengeance is really creating a darkness within her.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_04]: That she can't keep feeding.

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's that is really interesting character development that you don't see in a lot of places,

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_04]: which is I have to leave the main fight if we're going to succeed.

[01:54:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I really hope that's it, John.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that would be wonderful.

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be writing season three.

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So you will not stop until he is destroyed.

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So with his battle armor looking pretty beat up.

[01:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: If you look in the background of the siege weapons and the orcs crossing the river,

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a bridge there, which you can see in the background of a proceeding scene.

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think this is all part of the siege of a Region, did you say?

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I think so.

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that's what we're going to see.

[01:54:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:54:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I finally see in the next shot Tom Bombadil cracking a smile kind of a little bit.

[01:54:58] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like looks a little aloof.

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying.

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying guys.

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really trying to make this Bombadil feel like Bombadil.

[01:55:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't love this shot.

[01:55:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit too much for me.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Bombadil?

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of the hat, the way he's doing the hat and looking at the camera.

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a little too B grade rather than A grade.

[01:55:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, wake now, my Mary lads.

[01:55:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Wake and hear me calling.

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Warm now be hard and limb.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The cold stone has fallen.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, every time Tom Bombadil is mentioned,

[01:55:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to read another section of his poems.

[01:55:31] [SPEAKER_05]: You go.

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_05]: You go.

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He's looking up at the end, I think, right?

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he's looking at the endwife.

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, again, as they are cutting and yeah, but there's a bunch of changing.

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think you're right.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a bit.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's something around this time because there's a bunch of the leaves

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_03]: falling behind him.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And John, very good eyes to pick out that those are flowers.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_04]: The flowery.

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Magnolia top.

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I really think that this is this is an endwife.

[01:56:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And I will say the voice is notably higher.

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Than somebody like.

[01:56:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And faster.

[01:56:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they just got tired of waiting for the ends.

[01:56:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why they kept moving on.

[01:56:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:56:17] [SPEAKER_05]: If you can't say a sentence in under, you know, five minutes.

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it kind of a Magnolia tree?

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what this kind of looks like to me.

[01:56:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes me think of Apple Blossom.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:56:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And also the ends are not trees, right?

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_04]: They don't even want to be called trees.

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely none.

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_04]: They are shepherds of the trees.

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:56:37] [SPEAKER_04]: They just resemble them.

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:56:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just the resemblance of the flower.

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just trying to pick something.

[01:56:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she resembles a very old apple tree.

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[01:56:47] [SPEAKER_05]: In the same way that Peter Jackson's tribute represented a very old oak tree.

[01:56:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:56:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get this back and forth between Elrond and what's his name?

[01:56:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Doran.

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It's getting late.

[01:57:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Doran the Fourth.

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I need your ax old friend.

[01:57:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Once again with the Peter Jackson.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_04]: A ship in Numenor followed by this is a curious scene.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Elendil walking through a crowd.

[01:57:15] [SPEAKER_04]: What's going on here?

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Is this a funeral procession for a seal door?

[01:57:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he being honored or banished?

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Is this some kind of like ascension to another military rank?

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_04]: What's going on?

[01:57:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the gentleman to his left, no, to his right, our left are all holding clothes in their

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_03]: arms like recruits would be after they've been issued their new uniforms.

[01:57:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I was seeing scrolls but you have a better image than I do.

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I see a knife.

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I see some blue clothing there.

[01:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all the same.

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I could see why you would think it were scrolls, but I think that's the light of

[01:57:54] [SPEAKER_03]: the knives in sort of looks.

[01:57:57] [SPEAKER_04]: They've got their Boy Scout packs.

[01:57:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I see there is a knife there now.

[01:58:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Because of the drapery, I was getting a sort of a builder's guild.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Agreed.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that as much myself.

[01:58:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm pretty sure that is Eari and at the very back end, if you follow the

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_05]: line of people on the left and then look a little bit to the right and you see the

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_05]: person in the blue dress, I'm pretty sure that's Eari.

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yeah.

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Next up we've got Disa and Narvi looking so tough that I fear for the bellrog.

[01:58:28] Yeah.

[01:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Do not fuck with Disa.

[01:58:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And Narvi is a new dwarf.

[01:58:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's not say too much about him right now, but I think he will play a major part

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_04]: this season.

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so too.

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Sealdor fighting off a baby spider.

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if we should.

[01:58:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, that's an alien joke.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, sorry.

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I did see the trailer for Alien Romulus when I went to go see Deadpool and I

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_04]: was like, oh, this looks pretty good.

[01:58:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I might go see it.

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:58:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, can I share that one of my theories has been confirmed?

[01:59:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I think so.

[01:59:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you see a spider.

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what that is.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It is in fact Shilum.

[01:59:09] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just a much younger, much smaller Shilum.

[01:59:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Give her 3,000 years and she'll be everything that you want her to be.

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:59:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Because Izildor, having been left behind on the former Southlands, you know,

[01:59:24] [SPEAKER_05]: ruins is also going to be making his way towards Pellagir, which hopefully he

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_05]: knows about, or at least the sea.

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And the only way to do that from that part of Mordor is through the pass,

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_05]: which will eventually be known as Kyarathongal.

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, cool.

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Doran is saying fight with me.

[01:59:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Fight with our friends.

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_05]: He looks a little cranky there.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure does.

[01:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get a big wide shot of people all gathered around at Khazadum.

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So are they rallying the troops?

[02:00:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they are.

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's got a hard rally on his hands because I think that the friends

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_05]: that he is naming here are the elves and that's got to be a hard sell

[02:00:16] [SPEAKER_05]: for an awful lot of doors.

[02:00:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Then we see one of the Entwys, or I guess the Entwys.

[02:00:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It probably maybe is the only one we ever meet.

[02:00:24] [SPEAKER_04]: She's fighting.

[02:00:26] [SPEAKER_04]: She's going for it.

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know who she's fighting at this point.

[02:00:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And Galadriel is back in her one battle move firing an arrow.

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: From horseback.

[02:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, she is on horseback.

[02:00:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought she was just doing a wide stance because it was a little dark.

[02:00:47] [SPEAKER_05]: No, horseback.

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Arandir is, is he catching an arrow in that?

[02:00:53] [SPEAKER_04]: No, he's got a knife at his hand.

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And just before that, we get a quick battle scene from a reggae,

[02:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: what we're assuming is a Regaeon.

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: No time.

[02:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: No time for battles.

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get, yes, Arandir.

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Stabbing somebody.

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and this goes back to the fight that we see him in the previous

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: teaser where he does a flip and stuff.

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Next up it looks like General Belrios dropping a ring into the fire.

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That's falling down on Disa.

[02:01:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Curedon or is it not?

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's, no, I think it's Celebrimbor.

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You think it's Celebrimbor?

[02:01:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I do.

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Because how would Curedon, how would Curedon have gotten hold of the nine rings?

[02:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just looking real bad.

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's Celebrimbor.

[02:01:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yes.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_05]: My whole thing is reloading.

[02:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Considering what he has gone through and I won't say anymore.

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We did miss this scene prior to this of Disa being a bunch of bats

[02:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: coming down around Disa.

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is...

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, yeah.

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Cause I do...

[02:01:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That was interesting.

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's moving on.

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I tried to get most of the major shots in this without going totally nuts

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: because it's already like a four-minute trailer and every single second...

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It took me like...

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: How many hours have we spent collectively on this already?

[02:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[02:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Next we get...

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the eagle.

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I lost my spot when my page reloaded.

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I was very glad for this because it definitely shows that no Foutrezon was not writing the

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_05]: eagle into the Hall of Numenor there.

[02:02:33] [SPEAKER_04]: But we know that Manway is sending a message and I doubt it's nice.

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I doubt it is too.

[02:02:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm wondering if this is before or after Muriel was in...

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, interesting.

[02:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting thought.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, where I don't see her in the crowd here.

[02:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, okay, moving on.

[02:02:51] [SPEAKER_04]: A Reggion looks like it's being attacked by Flamie and Jactiles.

[02:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: We've talked about the siege.

[02:02:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Same thing, just a different shot next.

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we've got...

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That is Celebrimbor, right?

[02:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It is him, totally him.

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It is Celebrimbor.

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:03:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so that's Celebrimbor looking very disheveled but holding a ring which

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I think is going to be one of the Manish rings, right?

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that...

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Since we already have the other two groups forged, what else is left?

[02:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Which then he says give me the nine.

[02:03:26] [SPEAKER_05]: He also says give me the nine which is pretty good confirmation.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_05]: You will give me the nine.

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty boy wants the nine.

[02:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get a troll which looks pretty cool stomping through with a bunch of

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: skulls on its belt.

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty wicked.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Of course you got to bring the trolls if you're in a work army.

[02:03:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, we got to take down the city.

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they were a lot bigger in the second age, weren't they?

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Then...

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Goadriel?

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, doing a Matrix move.

[02:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Doing a Keria and Moss.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_04]: That's funny.

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then a Double Fire arrow.

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep, she is definitely into...

[02:04:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, these elves, they got one move.

[02:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Knock the bow.

[02:04:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm sure they could do many other moves if the showrunners would put it into the script.

[02:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, visual language has elves, shuboes, men, swords and that's that.

[02:04:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And then they get on horses and they charge cavalry with swords and spears.

[02:04:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Marilyn, you had some speculation on the question I asked about the next scene

[02:04:31] [SPEAKER_04]: which is, is Elrond shouting in Quenya or Sindarin?

[02:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, good question.

[02:04:37] [SPEAKER_05]: No, it's Sindarin because by this time Quenya is only a language of lore.

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're right, yeah.

[02:04:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Latin is today and very few elves would even understand it.

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_05]: The high elves, the Noldor, would have been taught to read it

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and sometimes in the first stage in particular they would speak it amongst themselves

[02:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: but I don't think he's got an army full of high elves and Noldor at this point.

[02:05:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think there's enough.

[02:05:04] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a whole bunch of all kinds of elves and Sindar is now the common language.

[02:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this is interesting.

[02:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm on this cavalry charge.

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a regrouped force that is taking the orcs from the other side

[02:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: because behind the battle of the orcs is the burnt out city.

[02:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[02:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So they're coming in from behind them so the orcs have had to reorient

[02:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and whether they've lost a Region and this is like a reformed unit

[02:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: or a unit from another location.

[02:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, interesting.

[02:05:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And this follows pretty closely to what the lore says about the actual battle.

[02:05:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Hors nihord az min.

[02:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Very nice.

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I do love what's his name here?

[02:05:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Robert Armaio.

[02:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love him with this line.

[02:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the most vocal.

[02:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the most intense that I've seen him in this and the way he delivers the diction of the Elvish.

[02:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sounds good to me.

[02:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm no Elvish scholar but to me it's so I am so sold on this line

[02:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and just the look on his face and the whole thing.

[02:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm just like, ooh, I'm excited.

[02:06:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it really caught me too.

[02:06:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think this is after the point at which Galadriel says, promise me.

[02:06:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Elrond has taken that seriously and he is stepping up.

[02:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a reason that he's at the front of the charge and she's not.

[02:06:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: My one criticism visually so far is on the line of horses charging.

[02:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the most that you can tell it's CGI if you kind of look.

[02:06:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh yeah, these are just copy and pasted groups of horses running.

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm sure they had real ones and then they just replicated them.

[02:07:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I'm sure Elrond, which is he could have copied and pasted ten times.

[02:07:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.

[02:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So the line of orcs facing the charge though, it's pretty funny because the actors are all like flipping the bird and like, you know, come on, you stinkin' elves.

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Come and get some.

[02:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, it looks great.

[02:07:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was pretty good.

[02:07:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Completely disorganized compared to the elves that are just in formation and who knows which will succeed.

[02:07:36] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll never know if Elrond will survive until the third age.

[02:07:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you heard of this little thing called plot armor?

[02:07:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You can look really closely and you can see that he's wearing that sort of in the designs in his shield.

[02:07:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of that plot armor in a prequel series.

[02:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[02:07:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, the next shot is just more battle shots but looks cool.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Exciting. Good way to end the trailer.

[02:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I was going to, since we're done, I forgot to mention this earlier to both of you, when we were in the UK on holiday the other week,

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: we were in East Yorkshire, we were up at Hull and there, we went to the aquarium there and in the book shop there was a book that I bought called Tolkien in East Yorkshire, 1917 to 1918,

[02:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: an illustrated tour and the author Matheson who seems to be like a local guy kind of a quasi self-published thing,

[02:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: wrote a whole book that documents Tolkien's time while he's convalescing and being bounced around and Edith going up and she went to this one town thinking he was going to be there and then he bounced on another town and he went,

[02:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: but his whole tour of Yorkshire and so this guy's documented all the locations and the places and narrates the entire thing.

[02:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't finished reading it but I thought it was pretty interesting.

[02:09:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's had very good.

[02:09:06] [SPEAKER_05]: A fun piece of lore.

[02:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm excited.

[02:09:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, David. That was a lovely detail.

[02:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll try to finish it before it starts and throw in a detail or two.

[02:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Very nice.

[02:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Very nice.

[02:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, folks.

[02:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's the end of our coverage today.

[02:09:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just do a very quick programming note.

[02:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: House of the Dragon going strong, three podcasts a week on it, crazy talk.

[02:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: One of those podcasts is subscriber exclusive and season pass exclusive.

[02:09:40] [SPEAKER_04]: So make sure you check that out in the show notes in the link tree if you want to get that.

[02:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We've also got another Silmarillion story coming out this week of Valerian and its realms with new better do better.

[02:09:51] [SPEAKER_04]: If you know him from the tiktoks and the Twitters really good conversation.

[02:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: The Acolyte season one wrap up just dropped and David and I may be in love according to.

[02:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You're my dyad.

[02:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Deadpool and Wolverine got me to come back to the Marvel Universe and we are.

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_04]: We talked about it. Me, Alicia and John and then they went on without me to do more nerdy talk.

[02:10:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And then on the Patreon, we're doing the karate kid doing that for 11 Z's so check that out.

[02:10:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And the other thing is Canon timeline podcast next week.

[02:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Alicia's doing Canon Mids of the Old Republic and on Walsh if does she's doing a season two of silo announcement podcast for San Diego Comic Con stuff or the air date casting news and more.

[02:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And she's got her own book club on her own personal Patreon where she's doing the third shift breakdown.

[02:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Alien Romulus we mentioned that that's going to be dropping August 16th.

[02:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll have a reaction podcast to that, you know, sort of a weekish week plus after it comes out give everybody chance to see it.

[02:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But prior to that we've got three other podcasts.

[02:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We had to recalibrate we had recorded some stuff we had some technical problems so we had to scrap all of those and we're sort of starting fresh.

[02:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But Aisha from every single sci-fi film ever and I are going to tag team talking to a couple of academics about the Alien franchise and the Alien 79 movie.

[02:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And then her and Ron and I are going to talk about the 45th anniversary of the original movie.

[02:11:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we also are going to have a short trailer breakdown about the two Romulus trailers.

[02:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's all common.

[02:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of.

[02:11:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm going to go see it.

[02:11:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it looks like a fun movie.

[02:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So when we do the movie reaction, like I'm going to put an all call to the the Lorhounds co-hosting and whoever wants to jump on to that pod, we can have kind of a round Robin.

[02:11:56] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, very cool.

[02:11:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sounds good.

[02:11:59] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, quick thank yous.

[02:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: David, I'm throwing it to you.

[02:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Ready?

[02:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all so much for being our top tier subscribers.

[02:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: You help keep the lights on.

[02:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: The Lorhounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorhounds.

[02:13:30] [SPEAKER_04]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at

[02:13:33] [SPEAKER_04]: www.Lorhounds.org

[02:13:33] [SPEAKER_04]: www.Lorhounds.com

[02:13:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Get early and ad free access to all Lorhounds podcasts at www.patreon.com

[02:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Any opinions stated or arsed personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[02:13:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening.

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