The Rings of Power - S02E06 - Where is He?

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a kind of elven to cathalon type thing that they could do? Did they ever have it?

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we know they had athletic events because Galabriol would dress up and actually compete with the guys.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually Bikakross-Balarian.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to The Rings of Power podcast where the Lorehounds your guides to Tolkien's world of middle-earth. I'm David.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm John.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Marilyn.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is our coverage for Prime Video's original series, The Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power, season 2 episode 6.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And this podcast we're going to start off with our hot takes and then we're going to get into our detailed scene by scene breakdown of the episode.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like the contact us and email us to LOTR at The Lorehounds.com,

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[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You can find all those links within the link tree in the show notes below.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're not into recurring subscriptions, you can also find a link to our season pass

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_04]: where you can pay a one-time flat $10 to get ad-free episodes,

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_04]: our weekly bonus lorecast episodes and our one guide to rule them all.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_04]: A endeavor that John has poured himself so much into that,

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_04]: John, are you okay?

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're going to have to take it to the Ministry of Duties away from you for the foreseeable future.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: A light today, light today, a glaryo, John.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to walk outside and it's going to be a peaceful day, but actually my whole neighborhood is being invaded.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Marilyn, what did you think of this episode?

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, I finally feel as though I'm in the presence of a Maya demonstrating his loads of abilities.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're really seeing Sauron and his Sauroniness at what he can do.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Gaslighter Supreme.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He's out to hold back so much.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_04]: He's in his Villain Era.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: What's he?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He's definitely in the heart of his Villain Era, and it is a masterclass, absolutely.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I found they figured out why I love Shaur's opening music so much.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It actually size, and it's size with the grief of the long defeat.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that's a lot of what age the second age is all about.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: They're doing their best, but it's really pedal to the middle time.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and there was a query from the previous episode from the ritual when the celebrate says Nasey.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I found out that Nasey is a queen of four either a man if you like or let it be so.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So sort of a, I like both of those.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, putting a period on.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, within our in our direct chats you were telling me like, oh, hold on.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_04]: This is an emotional one.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you found this one quite poignant or.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, god.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: The number of times I was crying at things.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So it was really hidden for you.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: The very dramatic moments.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean that the human heart and conflict with itself.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in a little while.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I know.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But in this instance, it's it's human conflict and conflict with human heart that it loves.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's so much about parents.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Fathers and daughters.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And the more I think about it after having done the the Lorcast on the history of human

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: daughter.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: This theme, of course, for Tolkien.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It was father's and sons, but I will broaden it out to say parents and children.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just coming up all over the shop.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's really interesting to see that.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, the vindication, the vindication of the ballad.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's a precious precious moment of affirmation.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think it's glass, very well.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Fathers on is going to take this sitting down.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course we already know what he reaches out for.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But we'll talk more about them.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Get there.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely not giving up just yet.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He's still like, yeah, how do I flip this?

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: How do I spin this into my own thing?

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: John thoughts?

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, sorry.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to get John thoughts on the other one.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, John.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did really like this episode.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it had a lot of really good, like big moments.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think my one part that I didn't really care for that much was sort of the

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Chaining the dwarves to the tree and the protests against the bulldozers.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Trying to tear the earth down.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That I was like, ah, little, little cringey.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But other than that, I think pretty really, really good episode.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I really like the new and our stuff.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I really, you know, that shot of them all on the rocks.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Looking like just a bunch of opinions.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was beautiful.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think cinematically and we don't get to see it in full 4k, HDR or fancy stuff when

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we're doing screeners.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But I can't, I'm going to watch that part at least.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I probably will have a episode.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to watch this episode on my OLED TV in 4k when it comes out fully because

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that that scene looked amazing.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was really very moving to see, especially the scenes between Mirio and

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: A.R.N. and OLED deal in the prison.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was some of the best writing this show has done.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so many great.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Highlighted lines.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually saw on full screen in a full episode with subtitles, etc.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: For the first time this weekend.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, the increased richness and depth in everything was fantastic.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure what you mean, John, about doors change to the rocks and everything.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at that.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I just mean like, you know, when you're talking with a piece of the past,

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: changing themselves to trees of the bulldozers can't go down.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm comparing that real life thing to the ones to Disa and Dora.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Disa's yes.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Another example of her singing.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think great episode.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, Marla, we really get to see Sarah on do his thing in a way that feels new.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty astonishing.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_04]: What about you David?

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, when I reference you mentioning that, oh boy, this is a really emotional episode.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was kind of prepared for that.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I, for whatever reason, I didn't respond as emotionally as I thought I was going to

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_04]: on paper.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_04]: When I watched it on my second round and I was doing my notes on paper, this episode has got tons of great stuff.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a couple of scenes, but overall it should have been really hitting for me.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And for whatever reason, and it's just a me thing, it just didn't click the same way that episode five last week.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Click to for me.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So, oh, maybe I oversold it.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, but then again, everything's moving along.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I am really happy and I don't want to go too much on a rant here about networks shutting down television shows before they even start to hit their stride because at this point,

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like our actors are finally inhabiting their characters and they're really growing into them.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm loving what I'm seeing across the board, and it feels like they've dialed it in and it's bright.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_04]: It's hitting, you know, they know what their characters who they are and how to operate them, so to speak.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and this would be a certain amount of security and knowing that you are bankrolled for five seasons.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So you can lean into it.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You can lean into it.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You can be free of concern.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You can just focus on doing what you want to do.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So the other thing that I haven't been focusing on, but I picked up a couple of times here is the music cues and certain things,

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, and the doors get mentioned or something.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll run to something and like you'll hear the beginning of the ring, the one ring cue, you know, part of it or you'll hear the doom, doom kind of door of himself and I was like, oh wait.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: That's been going on all this time.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been paying attention to a whole bunch of other stuff, but it's there.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really great because some people in film and TV criticism, you know, one of the things that they talk about is,

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: music tells us what we should be feeling in a moment how our emotions should be responding to what we're seeing on screen.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh yeah, this show is doing that and I haven't been paying attention to that.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm looking forward to paying attention a little bit more to the music cues.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And listeners, if you don't believe us, try listening to the asteroid scene when Hon is driving his way through an asteroid field without the music.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, interesting. I think you'll get it right away.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Or yeah, like don't look at a screen when there's a particular scene on and then just listen to the audio.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_04]: All right. So before we get into our scene by seeing just a couple of front matter issues, I'm traveling this week.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm down in the big city. So if you hear some extra noises in the background, it's because I am in the heart of the city right now.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's a little hard to control for sirens and motorcycles and such quick shout out to all of our season pass and regular subscribers.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you all so very much for all of the new subscriptions, the season pass has been a big hit. So we just really appreciate you and we're just so glad that you're here with us on this journey.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Lorcast. Next up, we've been talking about orcs and orcs and all kinds of interesting things. We've been reading some interesting articles, Marilyn, you've got some cool research that and material that you've studied in the past that you're bringing forward.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So from some of the best Tolkien scholars ever.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited, Marilyn, because orcs are honestly some of my weakest points in the lore and so I'm excited to learn from the master.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and also the fact that Tolkien himself, you can see I did a chronology, you can see how his life is changed.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we could put that on the show guide in that chronology.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that'd be cool. So our past lore casts were on my our Tom Bombadil and the politics of Numenor last week.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_04]: We're not sure what we've got yet. We still have a you know some choices that we could do ball rugs has been something that we've talked about, but we'll see kind of depends on lame lame.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all rock is overdone.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, listen to me.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right in tell us what you'd like us to do and maybe I've come up with something that way.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: We kind of just told I was just told covering the Lord of the Rings after the Silver Liam was lame. So I get one lame.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You got to go over.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Unfinished tales is that what you're anyway.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I got a pile of on him.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody wants to hear me talk about Lord of the Rings.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think maybe we'll do unfinished tales next. Well, we'll talk about it.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be amazing.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: The show guide is doing well, John. You've been pouring your body and spirit into it.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I have already and I just want to make a quick announcement.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll be traveling all day on Thursday.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So the images for the show guide will be a day to late this week.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: The images will appear on Friday.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The synopsis will still appear on Thursday.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's also a good point to note because this week is would be really logistically difficult for us to do feedback.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to hold feedback to next week.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So keep the feedback coming.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Keep Nancy busy sending those emails to LOTR at the Lohoundstock.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Or your voice mail is user phone app or go to our website and use the form there, the little tool that's built in.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But we're going to take all the feedback from this week and we'll get it into next week because both John and I are on the move.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Just a quick mention again to clarify.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_04]: We do have access to screeners. Thank you. Amazon.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But we do not have show titles or subtitles.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know, has anybody watched ahead? I have not. So we don't spoil ahead.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm going to probably tomorrow at lunch.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm probably going to get a lot of episodes.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're waiting to see when we get it.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we don't have access to eight yet. So we'll see what they're going to do for that.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Cool. Otherwise, I don't think we have any erata from last episode, nothing.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We've never been wrong about anything actually ever.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember ever yet.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have no out yet.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: What anything?

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have no outtakes.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's part guess at all.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Raw recording.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04]: John ready to walk us through a scene by scene?

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do it.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool excited.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote this two days ago and I don't remember what I wrote. So here we go.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be a nice surprise.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Erondere finds the works.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Erondere finds a group of works and defeats them upon searching them.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He finds a map to Oregia.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of a straightforward scene, but it leads us right into the rest of the episode.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of running elves in this season.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: We had to elrond.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I know that too.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Are they super healthy across country progress?

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess you have swimming with Galadriel.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now we have swimming.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a kind of elvin to cathalon type thing that they could do?

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Did they ever have a swim?

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we know they had athletic events because Galadriel would dress up and actually compete with the guys.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually bike across Belarian.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So they used to do it in the first stage.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Can't do that anymore.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I love it.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: No, not easily.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It would have to be underwater.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Tour de France.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you convert the tour de France to Middle-Earth?

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Could you find?

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I really thought that out on Deos was getting some serious satisfaction from killing those works.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a really good topic.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why we're on the Lordcast.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Part of it, right?

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's really something.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And that one article that we were talking about, which we'll also share.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_04]: This idea that just the enmity between orcs and dors and humans and elves and how they just sort of

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: have this, and we see it in Galadriel.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: This is this overall response to you are a blight on the landscape and we have to wipe you off.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And the works are like, okay then, well I guess we're going to have to try and wipe you off.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's like, you know, outside of this whole thing of just the flat dimensionality of orcs,

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04]: which we're going to talk about in the Lordcast.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I have some things that speak to that specifically.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure I'm exactly betting this, but I think that was something of a setup in this scene that

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Orandeer may be the one to rescue a certain elf who has...

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a good prediction.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Gotten themselves into rather apical with a certain aggressor.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So he did make his investigation role to find a little hanky map,

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but he failed his perception check and he got ambushed by that.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_04]: He rolled a natural one and got jumped by that other orc, but he beat that combat.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the sad that he didn't make any difference to it.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It Ronder has saving roles for days.

[00:16:18] There we go.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So was that Shagrat and Gorbag kind of a little bit Shagrat and Gorbag?

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It was an interesting...

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: A little wink.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Mirroring.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't it.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet I think it's also important because up to this point,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the only interaction we've seen between Adha and his children,

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: they've all been his children and they followed him and they've trusted him and all the rest of it.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're starting to see a little bit of defection.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is interesting.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you wonder why that came along now.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe these orcs were around, you know, a couple of several thousand years ago

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: when they watched, you know,

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: or maybe even helped turn south on into slime.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But they haven't forgotten what he was like.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And even this thought of a suggestion of a hint that he might become in fact,

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: is enough for them to say,

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: hello, I won't go right now.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Look with these orcs, you gotta put meat on the menu every now and then,

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: are they going to defet?

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_04]: With the Shagrat and Gorbag, maybe we should just do a little lore check.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_04]: If you could remind us, Marilyn, who those two were and what their conversation was?

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, these are the two who were in Kyrithonggol.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And my right with one of them was the head of the Tower guards and one was the head of the pass.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So one was responsible to sound on and the Tower and both of them.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Was that the end?

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought they were, because they were talking about,

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought their conversation was the one where they're like,

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_04]: oh well, gosh back in the good old days when we could just get out of here and we don't have to ask a way.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was their question.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: One kept in the city with the Nazgul and one kept in the Tower over.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And they kind of talk about boy, would it be nice?

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there's all this blob law from the high command and we just wouldn't mind just going back to, you know, living a more simple existence.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Even the big glasses don't know everything that's going on and maybe you and I can slip away with some of the lads that set up on her own.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's going to actually be specifically referenced in our lawcast.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So those of you who are subscribers or have access to the lawcast stay tuned.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's go to the next scene,

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Khelebrembor's Mind Faltors.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Khelebrembor struggles to find the proper alloy for the rings of men and lashes out at his mizzerbond finding out that the dwarves have been late on their myth role delivery.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: After he forgets Miradani as name and begins to question his memory,

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah on sends the mizzerbond on break and reassures Khelebrembor.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And I tar tell us Khelebrembor, his people demand an audience,

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: but the elf recommits himself to the ring making.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Khelebrembor sends Anatar to retrieve more myth role.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Charles Edwards was getting all hamlet on us there with that opening sequence.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_04]: He was really getting intense about it and having a salilla quiy about, you know,

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_04]: what are you that you have this pride? It was very Shakespearean.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely. And of course he is a Shakespearean actor. I'm pretty sure that is the case.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_02]: If he isn't the ought to be, let's be that way.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And can I just say, right up front, I have so much sympathy with anyone who has memory verbs because it's not fun.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying it's not fun.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I am not, you know, besieged by an evil Maya.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: My memory is not clouded by all this and possible stuff I've tried to do,

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's still a thing when you try to remember somebody's name and you just can't remember it.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just is like the first step of this cascade down the stairs of, oh my gosh, I'm falling apart.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And Khelebrembor, Khelebrembor, I'm sorry, I was stumbling my words.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Is such a prideful person?

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And so to have that moment of frailty or faltering in that way is such a bruise to his self image.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean he is very clearly the grandson of Fainoar and I'm so glad they brought that out of him because he's in one.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I did not see that at all. He just seemed so like, oh yes, everything's fine and I'm fantastic in the Nolder, all living in bliss.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not until season two where he's like, I'll do great things, great but terrible things.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you really see that, you know, there's that great line in the last chapter of the Fainoar's 11 and I remember it is, and he was fay right?

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, he was just fay and just stomping through the hills just complete like in almost like a flame of an existence.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And you see that flame perhaps diminished but still within Khelebrembor and that's great.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and of course it's being very carefully fed by Anatar.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I still am left with the question of what does Khelebrembor have at Anatar does not and I don't think it has anything to do with credibility.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there is some actual skill or knowledge.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's the only thing that I kind of stumble on sometimes but.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I also want to shout out Amelia Kenworthy as Miradania.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because her reaction with that in that whole interaction with him about oh, you know, you've been you're being a bit of a jerk and you know this and I get, you can't remember my name and all that.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And the subtlety of the reactions and her internal emotions playing out on her face was just so nuanced and so subtle.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Some might even say to me or but it was that means that means all down. It is now I know I feel kind of.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so jealous of you.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so jealous of you.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely so too.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Exha go come on.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I still like it though.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we gone now David.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be making this campaign debates now.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Just put put grandpa to bed.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I this may be in a sub subsequent scene but I'm thinking of it right now.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was heartbreaking when she said, I guess I was too harsh with him about not remembering my name.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what you do.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: With your elders, particularly if they're your grandparents, whatever, even that seems to be that kind of age distinction between the two of them.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe it was my fault because how couldn't it possibly be the fault of this person who I have practically worship.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But also have you have you heard this conspiracy theory going around that that's Khelebrian.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree with it.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't either.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he just said, you look like the Ladoville because he wanted to puff her up.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, if you're not aware, Khelebrian is the daughter of Galadriel and Kheleborn.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't have a secret project.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Is a wife yet?

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Is she alive yet?

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Is she not?

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Are they is that a forthcoming baby?

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We just don't know.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we definitely hope that she's already around but we just haven't seen her yet.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just can't see Galadriel visiting the city where her daughter works, not acknowledging that.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The only possible way that could happen is if Khelebrian somehow snuck her in there without the Ladoville even knowing.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, there's so much subtext that would have to happen for that to take place.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be silly.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be very like Luke Skywalker's lightsaber being found after falling down a pit.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You're given to somebody who is just a random and you know, it would have to be like the sequel trilogy.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you guys notice Annatar's new threads, you're sporting a new outfit?

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just saying exactly the same thing David.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed he's dressing more and more like Khelebrian more.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, and it marks this whole gaslighting taking over.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the thing?

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_04]: The Dennis Methoder.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see somebody I just checked with her.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody came up with a sower on method meme and so I'm not fired by us.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Woo hoo!

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you got all of her on the million downloads.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Eden.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: People know you.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Eden, Pococ, Eden, Pococ.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to pronounce you last time.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but I'm going to read it out.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to thank you for this.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a very funny.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I reached we did it.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: S strategically isolate A all with power.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You, you serve control are,

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Repremand incessantly, O obtained desired results and neglect then leave for dead.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So we can see all of that happening right now.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Then he's about to get left for dead real quick here.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's funny.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This, this Twitter name is do n't, like do not die.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's funny.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: That's funny.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Points.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Point's your house.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_04]: You had to put a link to that in the show notes.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Was it me or did the forge look really desolate and empty?

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: There was a scene when he was talking to him.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: There was a wide shot where we could see the way that the monster.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It just seemed clear out.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_04]: It didn't seem lively like it had been before.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's all part of that isolation thing, right?

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they're giving us the on screen clues of, you know,

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Anatata is looking more and more in command and in bigger he's less in the shadows coming forward more.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's less and less people around Calibremboer.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And, and in the forge, and it's all playing into this, this big plan.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought he looked, it looked tired.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He looked tired and it looked tired.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's right.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I can say, I do miss Sarah on's apron.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It was very, you know.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like I'd watch that, like Sarah on in the kitchen, you know?

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It was domestic.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a Rachel Ray type show.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah on in Rachel Ray now there's a concept.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I like it.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I like a, a Sarah on cook an Anatata on the kitchen show.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an Anatata and we are going to be baking some fall treats today.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No, we're going to super fire.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're going to grill a lot.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That was his backup career if he decided to go good with that older man that given me the advice.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But first somebody had to, you know, explode mountain for me.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, he bakes with the heat amount to my liking.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You got this Maryland.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You got this.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You got the lure going for it.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to Anatata taking advantage.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Which I recognize?

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who would have thought?

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We've killed a more consumed with his work.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah on tells the people of a region.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He has been placed in charge of the city's administration.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's a little bit of a stretch, don't you think?

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Seriously.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The elves tell him that merchants have stopped arriving and they show him the body of a scout

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: who returned with a message carved into his chest.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Anatata orders a scout buried and swears the elves to secrecy.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Anatata then leads Miradaniah to believe she and the other Smiths have been

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: relieved of their duties.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He tells Miradaniah that the carving said where is he before looking out into the forest filled with works?

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So, the look on his face when he was looking out across the river.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to set aside the whole question of having several legions of an army so close and you don't know about it.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's another topic and we'll get there later.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But he looks out.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And I couldn't tell what was playing out on his face.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: There was some concern, but I think he ended with a little bit of a smile like I know how to work this into my plan.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I was in expecting this.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a little uncomfortable, but I can see how this is going to work to my favor and I know exactly what I'm going to do.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the kind of interpretation I made for it.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But I wasn't sure what other people were reading because it was so subtle.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's a timing issue.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he did expect this eventually.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think he didn't expect it so fast because why else did he go to help as Halbrand to add art?

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: He did that to bathe them there.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a really good point.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's actually a very good point.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the fate was rather more boring than he expected.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Galadriel is exactly right later where she's like, oh you've delivered his army to him.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You gathered up all the orcs for him so he doesn't have to do that.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Unquestionably.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That is exactly how Sarah on works and why this writing is so good.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that Sarah on makes you think you're doing something for yourself while you're actually doing something for him.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a beautiful, beautiful piece of writing.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Which add our points out later and then uses the same technique.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But in a much more shorter time frame.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I think mostly his mind was absorbed with the thoughts of that.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: When he's looking out.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's I don't think he's worried so much about legions of works.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I think he's kind of doing his.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Doing the math five level chess.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: What's that?

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the meme with the little the mathematical symbols.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm all rolling around.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I something I wanted to point out about this scene in particular, which I want to give credit to

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the painter McCay into the writing staff.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_04]: This is kind of something that indicates to me some maturity in how they're handling the show and the season.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_04]: They could have left what was written on the chest of the guard or the, you know, the trollman or whatever.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_04]: A mystery for longer.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But they set it up and they let it run just enough.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So at the end of the scene.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: They give it the give us an answer and answer right.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's an edge art is we don't know if it's true, you know, the real answer or not.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's true.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's true.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it is too.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But you know, there's still always a meaning like you got to question it.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that they set that up at the beginning of this scene and then they end the scene with the answer to the mystery.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But the answer brings more dramatic tension to the entire situation.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So a question is answered, tension is resolved, but a new tension is introduced.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And to do that so seamlessly and so quickly, just feels to me like a maturation of the writing process for the show.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just really appreciate it because I was like, oh, here we go.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: It's we're not going to find out and it's going to be, you know, maybe next episode that will we'll figure out what the mystery is.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Nope, they give it to us right away and they opened up a whole new situation because what is meridonia thinking now about what is that she's going like, but the F does that mean right.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we're like, and we're like, what does it mean?

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just like, oh, it's at ours like right.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_04]: So we get a whole new loop of drama going on.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So I really appreciate how they're starting to get smart with these little things like that.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we get a real clue to a Souton's priorities when Anna Touch says until the nine are done nothing else matters.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: This has been his thing all along and I think it's because of something else he said, which is he fears new and all.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_04]: He fears what? Sorry.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No, man.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, which he did say and yeah, for whatever reason he Anna Touch Souton cannot construct the nine rings,

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Kellibro and Borcan, therefore all of his priorities is isolated, Kellibro and Bor give him nothing to do but make those rings and successfully complete them.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's why he says to meridonia all we can do now is leave him in solitude.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And can I trust you to go follow through on this?

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Have you either of you read or heard of the essay that got turned into kind of a book,

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: it's more like a pamphlet, a on bullshit by Harry Frankfort.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You may have mentioned this last year, John, it's pretty cool.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it was only learned about it like a month ago.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, then you didn't. Unless you were forced to have a future.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So there are many criticisms to have with this book.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the, I heard about this on the podcast if books could kill because you know,

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: they tear down every book that you could find but they even say like,

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: there's something to this.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_00]: This whole book's premise is there are people who tell the truth.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: There are people who tell lies.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there are bullshiters and it's not a lie.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you lie, you are still referencing the truth.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You are still playing by the rules of what is true and untrue.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: When you bullshit, it's a total disregard for the truth.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It is, it is I don't know what if what I'm saying is true or not.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying anything that will serve me in this moment.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And that to me is closer to what Sauron's doing here.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't matter if that's true or not.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He's just saying stuff to say stuff.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and you know, his name is Frankfort.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Frankfort is, you know, he's making argument that like that's honestly a bigger threat

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to truth than lies are because lies you could at least judge by the truth.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But bullshit, you're like, do they actually like mean that or not?

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like there's a weird intent behind it.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and Sauron, what's interesting here is I think Sauron's most interesting when he tells something that at least has a basis in truth.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And here's that has a basis in truth.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that Sauron bends truth. He uses truth as a tool to withhold certain information

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and make it a lie by a mission.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And manipulate people with just enough truth words credible.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's super interesting.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think I don't want to, we don't want to, you know,

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_04]: we try to veer away from current politics.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think one of the important, but we do talk about social issues and history of things.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think this is an important topic that you're bringing up because I think for us in the community that we are part of

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and why we've all coalesced around the shows and the books and the things that we like is because it helps us to interpret the world and to think about our place and the world.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think this idea of using power and control and truth and bullshit to manipulate and steer and shape is very relevant in this day and age.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that, you know, the more that we can sharpen those skills and listen and think and have conversations and contemplate,

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's important in this day and age.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It was also incredibly important in talking so in time.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_04]: The politics of world wars one end of the world wars between,

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah, he was very honest and full about his distaste for the Nazi regime, right?

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And the Nazi regime is a great example of like they just about it bullshit.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry to keep using that word but that's the title of the essay.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: The word he used, he's like, this is another word for bullshit.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But now there isn't.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Crap comes to mind.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: No, this is not the same.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not as satisfying.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same, it's not the same.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We're ready to expose it.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna use it.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So what I want.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, shall we go to an awkward second date?

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Indeed.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: At our music with Galadriel about the way Ceraan gets in one's head and uses the offer of power as a temptation.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel knows that they both got what he promised them, her and army at our children.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: When Galadriel doubts at our computer feeds Ceraan, he showed her the refords crown of workouts

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were wrong Maryland.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's in Erata.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's out of Erata.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not in Erata.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Completely outside the wall.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just say that.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So the crown of Morgan.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I did Liam pointing with that.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, moving on.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And suggest that with the crown and the Elven Rings, they can destroy Ceraan.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He figured out that Halbred is Ceraan and asks for to decide a feat of a reggae on where

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: he had.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_04]: How is everyone liking Hazel Dying's performance of Ed R?

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wonderful.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's great.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He's playing with the same way.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: He's so hard to read and yet very clear in what the way he's going and so forth.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in thinking in this advance, I knew that the two of them were going to get together

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and either it was going to be a dinner and there was going to be some kind of a proposition and so forth.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I couldn't see how it could end in anything other than the way it ended.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I was looking forward to some really clever thing on the part of the show,

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and I mean, this is absolutely in accordance with everything they've set up up to this point.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And what is heartbreaking is that Galavira will actually, for one moment,

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: believed that he was offering some form of an alliance.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And particularly the confirmation that yes, this help run person is actually sold on and is in a writing on now.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe the reason I didn't click with this episode in the same way as last week is maybe because I'm in denial

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_04]: because I did believe Adar.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought he was offering.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_04]: He got me.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_04]: He actually got you.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he got you David.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it was like, oh, he played you.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_04]: He totally did play.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is beautiful because he said before, he's playing.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Sauron's playing him.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_04]: He's playing Galadriel.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, everybody's playing everybody.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's and it's Sauron's game and he is.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_04]: This is what he does.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Which I think Adar knows, but I think Adar also believes that he's the one with you,

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and he has the greatest likelihood of actually accomplishing when he wants.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure David noticed and brought John Jutud that they used exactly the same Dutch angle camera.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I was right here.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Notice that he can't remember the bar.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I so proud of myself.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I got that name I almost feel like okay, I'm starting to think of it.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I started to get this TV stuff.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Television techniques and not just plot and whatnot, but yeah,

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: him saying that Sauron sees who you wish to be.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I have the same note.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's his eye.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly how you get inspired.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I guess I'll just have to squint about the whole Mugas crown being reforged into Sauron's thing

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because you know, lorwise, no, the crown was made into a collar, put her on Mugas neck

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and he was shoved into the void.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they don't even have the rights of that.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I know they know.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine with those.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: This is true.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: True.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Where is their crown?

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Kirbya.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well that's why I said I'll squint.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And it makes some nice continuity and it gives, you know, something else.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Because he's saying, no, I did find it curious that he learned about the Elven ring so quickly.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was really upset that they're saying that the Elven rings can destroy Sauron

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's the crown.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: The crown rings together.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not their function.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The Elven rings were to preserve and to heal and to gain knowledge.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: They were not weapons of war that's made very clear in order to rings.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe at ours thinking, you know, what does he know?

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And does he know that those aren't the purpose of the rings?

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he actually thinks it was clear how he knew about the rings in the first place.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_04]: That was like really quick.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe a bit of a plot hole there.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And interesting that he says to her, the fate of that city now rests on your ability to put aside

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: your pride as it just due so if you can.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Pot to cattle much here folks?

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean really.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Who needs to set aside their pride more at this point?

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Because add out is all up and I know Sauron, I know how to destroy him.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what he's thinking and so on and so on.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got you here and you're going to tell me everything I want to know.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I can put you back in your cage and that's it.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I just get the sense that add are is not fully aware of the abilities of my R or that Sauron is a Maya.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Something's missing here where he doesn't really understand.

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And you think he would after, you know, living through all the first stage,

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: receiving the cup of blood red wine from the hands of Sauron, the beautiful servant

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and then having it all fall apart on him.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I tend to be clear.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean the Valard did come from time to time in the first stage because you know at the end of the first stage they are who thought off more Gothen's sentiment the void.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So not to be tripled.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So when you mentioned the pride thing just now, Marilyn, it triggered the memory of what's to come later in this episode and all of the new menorion stuff.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we have Farazone and his pride, we have Kevin and his pride.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We have Eraryon and her pride, Ellen Deel and his pride and all the stuff that's going on in Numenor is all about pride and yet over here with a gladrial and addar it's about pride as well.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But when we're in exception, I would say to that David is, I don't, I don't ascribe pride to Ellen Deel and he says this very specific.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, but the issue is brought forward to him and then he repeats it.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll get to it.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a topic of conversation.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not saying that he's prideful.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Gotcha.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_04]: But he it's put to him that he's being prideful.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's so along with the parenthood team, there's this issue of pride, the steam of pride.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, Ellen Deel is also stuck in that mood.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Then we don't see much of him this episode.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to call him a jack?

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess against you, you get more feedback.

[00:43:51] No.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Been there done that moving on.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And Clark's acting.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_04]: We are in Adar as talking about how he manipulates you and then she replies with the, you know, that dull gray line.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_04]: She really does a great job of embodying the feelings that Adar is saying.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So he's saying this stuff and she's feeling it.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You really see that back and forth between the two of them.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's excellent.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's absolutely fine.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, I think in the previous episode, some people were speculating as to why Daddy

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: work was menacing.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Galadolio, when she was first released on her cage.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, why should somebody said, why is he about to give her a haircut?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it was about to cut her ear off.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So don't just put that delightful tip in out there.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, she certainly is mighty morphed Galadriel.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We love her that way.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Do a great job.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go on to the trial of Ellen Deel.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Ellen Deel is brought before the court of Thara's own to account for his false crimes.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The king offers the free him if he will repent for his crimes, which he does.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But when the king demands a pledge of fealty, Ellen Deel refuses acknowledging

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: myrial as the true ruler of Numinor.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Bells agar suggests they use a tradition of the faithful to decide Ellen Deel's faith

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and points to a seam on sternabug.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Thara's own doesn't twirl a mustache.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_04]: He twirls his eyebrows.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: He's just eating the scenery man.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: His portrayal of Thara's own is so good.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Every time he's on screen, I'm just eating it up.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want him to like, belt out even more and just do all this just, you know.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But part of what makes it so powerful is that it is understated.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly exactly.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like giving fabulous lesson in acting there.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And while someone please tell me who healed Kim and Sholder because I'd like to set up a series of appointments with him.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: When you think what Valendeal did to his arm and his shoulder and his, you know, all of that in the previous episode.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry but I had a whole years worth of therapy for a very minor shoulder chair.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like 12.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sorry.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't even wearing a new one.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: They live long.

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: They eat kale.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I say I want to set up a point with a new one.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The nutritionist PT.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, you feel faster than Nenia.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We've learned that.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Not that fast.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Holy cow.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you guys just the cool drone shot as we came come over the top of the meeting quite then we end sort of end looking down on top of the tree.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That was the quote of the drone.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's a CGI shot right right right right right.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like it was nice to have that brief reminder of the tree.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I really hope that they're going to in fact enact that and create will be important seeing for somebody's character.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But they may not very little tree this way may not we'll see.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they will that that's a big scene.

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We can't you know, I don't keep your secrets there it is.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I was waiting for exactly.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I was waiting for it.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think you brought a pride David.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that this scene really showcases that distinction right because he they say will you account for your crimes and he's like sure you know what I didn't do it but sure I will account for my false crimes.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then I was able to make it in those you've sworn oaths to your whole way of life your whole belief system and he says no.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I really think that that's that's a great show of his character here.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've always thought it was so silly of.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Tyrants let's use the word to demand of people that they give up their beliefs.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's that supposed to mean?

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Stop believing what I believe.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not a switch you can flick on and off.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: How many are you demonstrating this?

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay. So you mean I can't go to rituals and I can't do this.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I can still believe whatever the heck I want to.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're not going to know unless my behavior shows it.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And wouldn't you almost be driven to be a little bit more in yanyanyanyanyanyan.

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to believe even harder now because you told me that I can't believe of course as opposed to have your beliefs but if I see you on the street,

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to see you showing the proper respect wearing the proper clothes coming to the ceremonies at the proper times.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, give me your behavior.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Elizabeth, the first of England told her Catholic subjects.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to pry into your souls as long as you attend the state religion once a year you can do whatever you want in your homes.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't until the Pope declared her anathema and urged Catholics to kill their queen.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And there started to be plots around assassinating her that she had to get a little more intentional about.

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I see no reason the gunpowder trees and should ever be forgotten.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Remember remember?

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So, talking about parenting again here boy.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_04]: The way that fair zone turns on cam and cam is like let's get him dad and he's like stupid kid.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really a bad relationship between us.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all speak when spoken to.

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and you wonder why cam and hangs around but of course,

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: clutching to the tail and the power I suppose.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he has no power without his dad, right?

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like his dad is the reason that anyone respects him.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: If he were the weakling he is and I say that not as a force of physical strength but like just this person with absolutely no conviction within them.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Just a person who is a fair weather supporter.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If he's not attached to the king of Numenor, he's nothing.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And to get back to David's earlier point, he has no pride.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Or does he have only pride?

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_02]: He looks like it but it's only as a cover for the hollow inside and that says I am worthless.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But isn't that a lot of pride?

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I do think that a lot of pride is just kind of chest puffing.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it is.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be but I mean, I think Elendil takes great pride in his abilities as a captain and so forth.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_02]: He also knows when to set it aside.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And some respects, I think cam has private.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it a brittle kind of pride that breaks at the first tap?

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he's all the more lying than it should be you.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Because inside that part of him inside is still saying, oh my gosh, I'm a worthless piece of you know what?

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I'm sorry, picturing based on what you said.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm picturing, Kevin trying to go and attack Elendil and his dad holding the back of his shirt with one finger.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: He's preventing him from moving forward while he runs.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, with his shoulder all wrapped up.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_01]: No wonder that only one finger will do it.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: David.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was just going to say two in what's driving Kevin is trying to seek that approval of his parent.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's never going to get it and every time he tries to get it, it gets worse.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And then none of this would be going on.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_04]: If not for Kevin's screwing up, it really is his fault.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so which screw up now we're talking about?

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_04]: The whole situation with Elendil from the time when he turns in his sword because if Kevin had just said let him just said,

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, if they want to give him a captain my captain, it doesn't mean anything.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And if it didn't, if he didn't smash the artifact in the temple, sure.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_04]: To instigate the fight, none of this would have happened.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's, it's his little pride thing like I may have.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm the big guy.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I am the big guy.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And interestingly enough, it wasn't he who claimed the authority in the scene with the sea card.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was out and by who's authority?

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Our in just when he says by authority.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_04]: He was just sort of overseeing part of it.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: He was standing in the background.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's really a really beautiful scene I thought.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love watching Arian's face drop when her dad is like, you know, he's just behaving for a minute.

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's just like, yeah, I'm not going through with the rest of this.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the actor playing an Aryan is just growing by leaves and bounds.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So we've got some more ritual coming up, but I just thought that the lore book was something Marilyn.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But the big sea monster.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Very interesting.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, my response to that is, isn't fat as on strange monsters, floating around in oceans,

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: spinning out queens is no basis for a system of government.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Executive authority, frozen the masses, not for some classical aquatic ceremony.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, does raise your attention questions, which I will come to when we come to that point?

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, beautifully done whatever, but holy cow does it raise lore questions for me.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's just very confusing at all, thank you.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, why are the Valor involved in this at all?

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what would they be involved with the sea monster?

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand that.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I have thoughts, but we'll save them for.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: When we get there.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's go over to Roon where the stranger and Tom are having a great time together.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_00]: The stranger has a vision of ignoring and puppy in trouble, including a rock falling from the sky.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He awakens in the house of Tom Bombadil, who tells him the secret fire speaks to them.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: When the stranger asks how to master the secret fire, Tom gently rebukes the stranger and tells him to follow old Tom.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So, a secret fire for our listeners.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think of it as a holy spirit kind of thing.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the essence of creation that is at the center of a creation.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It is that which Luvittal alone has control over and which without which nothing actually lives.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We saw that in the Silmarillion story about Alley and the Creation of the Toors.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It was an until Luvittal placed the secret fire within them.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They became beings of their own before that they were just a Tomatons.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting parallel here.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He needs to feel he needs to master the secret fire.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I picked up on that too.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in the next, you know, in Lord of the Rings, we see another character who says that they are the servant of the secret fire.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I was just thinking of it in the power over power.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's so nice.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: That we have but I really like that call back for the Gandalf line which is I'm a servant of it.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That's even better.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I only just thought of it now and it makes me even statter because of the probable pointing towards who the stranger is.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey look, if this isn't Gandalf, what are we doing here?

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is Gandalf.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We're being really, really, tricksy.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, look, they were being tricksy last season.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_00]: There was all the suggestion that the stranger was Sarah and that was not true.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe we're doing a lot of heavy pointing towards Gandalf and it's not true.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not true.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be blue wizard.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I would be fine with that.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I would also be fine with it being Gandalf.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I will be able to master my grave if that is what happens.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I do feel we haven't had Tom that much but I almost feel like this.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, how am I supposed to get my powers?

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Things going on a little bit long like I want to I'm so done.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_04]: It's it is done like it is now.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I literally disappeared now Tom.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, literally.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also have to say,

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I really don't know how I feel about Tom using the many that died as their life.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, that comes up with a little bit of a head.

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a bit over the top, I think.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, again, off quote from the books.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you did in the movies?

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you does, right?

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think he does a troncated version.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, in the minds of Moliath.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Any that.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is a, that scene is after the

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Parfoot scene.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_04]: So do you want to save that?

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_00]: For now, I think you're right.

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's let's still talk about this one scene.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think we kind of nailed everything, right?

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_00]: This is just the secret fire discussion.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I just want to know who told the stranger that he has to master the power in order to use it.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Where did he get this idea from?

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, that's his, he's he's fumbling trying to figure out how to can he doesn't know how to control it.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_04]: That's that's what he's that's a default daughter reaction.

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's this tool.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_04]: How do I how do I use it?

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I want mastery over it.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you know five infermerschels from Masterclass.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You too can.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But how much mastering did he see with the hardwoods?

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he sees there's a difference between learning a scale and mastering of power is my point.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_04]: He sees the white wings that they have power.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_04]: They've mastered their powers for me to make sure the hardwoods talk about power.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_04]: In terms of modeling and seeing other people with you know, other behaviors.

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Not convinced, but maybe there'll be something more at some point.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's take a quick break when we get back.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll do more rings of power.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're back.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Next up is the store and the harfot.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The raiders ride across the desert before we meet,

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_00]: we see Nori and Gung Debell Earthallar.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the full name they gave the Gung.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Having a heart to heart.

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Nori asks why the stores don't leave to avoid the raiders,

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but Gung Debell teaches her what home is.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Nori suggests she turned herself in to the save the stores and Poppy,

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: who has her first date and kiss with Mary Mac.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Poppy reminds Nori that the raiders want the harfots because of the stranger

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and that turning herself in will but everyone at risk they agree to fight the stranger.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right for the stranger. I'm sorry, they don't fight the stranger.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just say like, I was watching the scene and I was just so pleased that we're not going to have a character go on a stupid mission

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: to like sacrifice themselves in vain.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Just for the villain to be like, yeah, that's great.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for thanks for getting here.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, especially when we have Golad, we're all falling into a trap in the same episode.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like somebody had something smart to say.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they've heard the episode.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Not everybody was doing dumb things.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We call that dumb person behavior.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and there's this idea of my personal immediate well-being versus a wider communal well-being

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and what are the choices there?

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think we see the strangers going to grapple with that.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to see Galadriel grapple with that.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would imagine that that's something that I haven't studied talking like you, Marilyn, but I believe that was a lot of what he was working on was how do you work through these issues?

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And what are these choices that you make in the face of all of these difficult circumstances where there's a lot at stake.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot on the line.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well I made a little note saying, Poppy wants to fight for the stranger.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The stranger wants to fight for Nori.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Nori wants to turn to self-in, so there won't be any fighting, but of course, there would be any way regardless.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, my question is, okay, so what are the stores have? What are they got?

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What have they done in the past when the bandits come running by and

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the cost destruction and may have and whatnot?

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Tolkien was somebody who understood, you know, he was ideally a pacifist, but he also understood that sometimes there is no choice but to fight back.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that sums him up pretty well, John. He would have rejected the name pacifist and even talks about Tom Bombadil as, you know, representing the pacifist point of view in the legendary.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But equally demonstrating how it would be next to impossible to maintain without the people who are willing to go to war and so forth.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But he never, he never valorized war.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He valorized courage.

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's from the influence of all the northern stories that he loves so much.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the northern courage he actually called it sometimes.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I mean, it may, I'm projecting here.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea, but it may wind up that the strangers will learn how to use his powers when he is confronted with, you know,

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: the fact that not just nor is life, but all these people's lives are in danger.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And poor Mary Mac, he was named two years ago.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he aches.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, these are interesting folks aren't they?

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love Poppy Fresno given matters. He's like, oh two years old isn't that bad and it's like no two years ago.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_04]: They were milking a snake.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can know snakes.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I know you can. I know you can.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_04]: But this scene.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And then she's like lizard for dinner.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're just like, what is what's up with the lizard? Is that like some sort of a aphrodisiac?

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: This was a very, I was right.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You're making me think of Ben's,

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Stiller and meet the parents going, you can milk anything with nipples.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then Robert and Eros says, can you milk me Greg? I have nipples.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I interpreted that comment as they had just kissed and she said, oh did you have lizard room dinner?

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I eat that's what she's tasting when he kissed when she kissed him.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I thought she, okay, that's interesting.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I thought she was, okay, I thought she was asking for something specific lizard.

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And then it's like, why would you want lizard? Is that an aphrodisiac?

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah. I thought it was, I thought it was bad taste.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I get it.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I, they were still milking a snake.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I, I, that completely, whatever my head.

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't think dental hygienists are, you know, lucrative career in the store community.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like probably not.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Though maybe there wasn't enough to know to, you know, brush their teeth.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we talked about that.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about that in prayer, both of the leash and I were working on the outline today for that movie.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Because they do show the, the hero in brushing our teeth with a stick.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's a whole thing about stick tooth brushes.

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, she and I both went down into rabbit holes on that.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I had no idea it was a period beast until I turned it on.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, wait, what am I watching?

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to make sure it was the right movie because they were actually two praise.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think on Hulu.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a second one.

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, which one of my, and I did pick the right one.

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But I was so excited.

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: This is definitely because I knew it was a predator that's all I knew about it.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if they're brushing your teeth with, you know, bit twigs then it's probably the 7800.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_04]: That's like with with a venture in V for vendetta.

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, John.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We what?

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's better than that.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I mixed up East Venture and V for vendetta.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_04]: It would.

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So they used the word, smell.

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they did.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And do we have a Lord check for that?

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, smiles are the names of the regions.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Where the dwellings end in our world, Tolkien group, we'll call themselves smile.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's smell, it's spelled S and I a L.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I have S and E a L.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think she pronounced it that way.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_04]: She has that very sort of broad country accent.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And that may be how the stores spell it through.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: If they do smell.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they really, it really went out to that.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And they have written texts yet.

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So a smile that's a name like a neighborhood?

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the name for some hobbit holes.

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm liking now.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: People are going to write in, please don't add me.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You can educate us but just don't add us.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Education always welcome as long as it's clarification filled with kindness.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the underground homes of hobbits.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just sort of a generic term that they had for their house.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Dog out homes.

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to, it sounded as good as hobbit hole.

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that does kind of conjure up less than pleasant.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that that whole conversation would go into brought up something interesting,

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: which is like, you know, what poppy part of what poppy was reacting to, which is what

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: is home?

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Where is home?

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you ever go back home?

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you go back home physically, is it still home?

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Because now you're thinking you've left and now you've come back and now you have

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: a, you're reacting to your own memory of what home should be, your nostalgia of home,

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: not what home is now because you have changed.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And you don't know how they've changed.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And yes, exactly.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So when Pippin and Mary go home, their changed and their, their, their community has been changed.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jackson does that brilliantly with that one scene in the pub where, you know, the travelers

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: have returned, they're sitting at a table in silence.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And all around them, the usual hobby tree stuff is going on in the pub and the massive pumpkin.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And all like how to stuff.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're just kind of sitting there and they're looking at each other.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they just toast each other silently and drink because that's just not them anymore.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I really thought it was an excellent way of capturing the feeling that veterans may feel

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: upon coming back.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They have experienced things that nobody else has experienced.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And they probably feel they can never really commit.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you, how do you do that?

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I found interesting was that when Pippin first comes back,

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Nodiasks or how is everyone at home and Pippin says about the same.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So to your question, David, about home and how you feel about everything.

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think for the harfots home is the group that you travel with.

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's less about a physical location and it is about the community.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Which at the end of the day, maybe true for everybody but it's not what we first go to.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the gun is slapping your hand on the rocks and saying this is home.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Where is the harfots?

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Harfots are going to stall you, right?

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What was treating nostalgia as home?

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, treating those who love this home, treating those who raised you as home.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Treating your community, the ones you love and the ones you hate as your home because that's what they are.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It's maybe a less of a quote unquote ritual question but I think it would be an interesting conversation with

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_04]: if you and Sarah talked about home and the sense of place of home and rituals of home.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I got married there and we buried my husband there and we live here.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of ritual around home and the sense of what home is.

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_04]: That would be a really cool conversation.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I will put a pin in that.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's time to go find our chibber crystal here.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was going to say we're going to go to a diga that we're going to find a little short green man.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It was definitely both.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was it was both finding a chibber crystal and Yoda being all, you know, choose your most.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Straight up Luke on diga, but straight.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I knew you were going to say that the milk and the thing that I was like, oh he's giving

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: a choice between saving his friends and staying to train.

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Although I don't think the choice is friends or train.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's friends or figure it out yourself.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's got to figure it out.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So he can save his friends.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you run away to save his friends, he'll never figure it out.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me read this in our upset, actually.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Tom brings a stranger to a field of dead trees to choose a staff, which Tom says will present

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: itself to the wizard when a vision, when the vision of his heart is aligned with the secret

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: fire.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: That was very good use as a war.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The stranger fears that Nori is in danger, but Tom gives a classic Tolkien quote about life

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: in death before telling the stranger, this is his one chance to be with Tom.

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's his friend or his destiny.

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I think that was a misuse of the more I think about it, the less I like it because

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't like a capture as the meaning of the Tolkien quote either.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got the quote here.

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, many that lived deserve death and some that die deserve life can you give it to them

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_04]: then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and he is bound up with the fate of the ring.

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_04]: My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet for good or ill before the end

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_04]: and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many, yours, not least.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Alright, then keep your secrets.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing is I think it's a faulty equivalency here.

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not about, you know, here's a being and they deserve to die or to live.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's my friend, he's in danger and here's the path that you're telling me I need to take instead

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: to save the whole world.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's not necessarily talking about killing people or not killing people at this point.

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really think that quote was not meant to say go be passive.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: That quote is meant to say don't be so quick to execute someone.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole context of this was, was that Frodo had just said, I wish,

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because he found out, I think it was right after Frodo found out that Gollum had basically given up the location

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of the ring.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo's like, oh, well, Bilbo should have killed him.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I think you should take a step back, Mr. Frodo here and Gandalf really called somebody

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like, you can't, if you can't resurrect the dead who were unjustly killed, then don't be so quick to send people to die.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's absolutely fair.

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the same thing as saying don't help your friend who's in trouble.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, it really isn't.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what a pity Bilbo did not slay him.

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Pity.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It was pity that stayed his hand.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Pity and mercy not to slay without need.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, that's pure enough speaking there too, by the way.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, this idea that if you're eager to deal out death, in judgment, it's not killing.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not defending, it's not protecting, it's not or even just being a preemptive strike,

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_04]: necessarily, but are you judging?

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Gallim is, oh, this is actually really interesting when it comes to the whole orchir question.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it is.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Because when you start to think, well, orchir just bad, therefore we should just wipe them out.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: That is killing in the name of judgment.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a traditional layer on all of this because Frodo is remembering this conversation

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: in his mind later at the edge of the dead marshes when they first encounter.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Gallim and he's repeating the conversation in his memory, but he adds a line in that does not appear

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in a shadow of the past.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And that line is not that it starts off, um, do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Fiering for your own safety, that line was not present in chapter two a shadow of the past.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And Tolkien recognized that according to Christopher Tolkien, recognize that difference when he went back to

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Do his revisions and he left them that way.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm almost hearing in that Frodo recognizing that the decision that someone to deserve to die is much more

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: about their own feelings of fear than about the strict judicial merits of the case.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So whatever you want to do in that.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just think it's fascinating and I'd not really ever heard anything talk about it before.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So there you are.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and so I think I kind of let that line go in the moment when Tom says that but the more

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: that I think about it, I think this is a misplaced line.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It was just like, yeah, it doesn't belong here.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a bummer.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have a problem with them having used it.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't think that this was the place to use this.

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: This was not the context.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: When I first turned it, of course.

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I left it.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think it.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But why is he saying?

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the relevance here?

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it was just a bumnote and that's okay.

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to linger on it.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think they would they would have done better not using this for using another context.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Agreed.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I do love at the end of the scene though, the way that the, I'm assuming it was a drone shot.

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: As they're pulling back and we're seeing the stranger standing on the cliff side.

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: He's this little brown stick amongst all these other little brown sticks.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would really gave a great sense of scale in position and, and this just sort of sense of lost among many.

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And how do you, how do you, you know, deal with that with yourself?

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's supposed to be this savior figure.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But yet he's just lost in the background of the, of the landscape.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So it was good.

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And it made me think of the ant wipes.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about that.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: The actual geographic location of the brown lands, which will be hearing about later perhaps.

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But that utter desecration of what was clearly once a group of trees.

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, was that one of the gardens of the FYI said planted that they had to.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought about that.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that'd be that'd be a cool detail.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess we'll see next episode whether the stranger chose to find his

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Congressal or move along to a cloud city to save his friends.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that where is that where Luke went?

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he went to college.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, best.

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's go to digging to deep.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The dwarves of Kazadume dig deeper into the mountain is more and more tributes are brought to

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Doran III.

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauron arrives to request more mythical and exchange for lumber or perhaps something more precious.

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But the king refuses when Doran IV raises his father.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The king suggests that he's just waiting for the elves to up there offer.

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Doran III accuses his father being under control of the ring, and when the king refuses

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to remove it, his son tries to forceably take it from him.

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Leading the elder to strike down the younger.

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Doran III orders Narvee to double his digging efforts.

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: After hearing what happened, Disa makes an impassioned plea to work together to stop her father

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and allow before the king to mistake and down with him.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_04]: So the opening of this scene where we're coming up from the mines up through was one of those

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Jackson comparison scenes below or think of below Sauronman's tower, where we sort of pan up from where all the

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_04]: orcs are creating their war machines.

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So it was a nice, nice comp in some ways.

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I missed that.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is escalated.

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: One might say, you know the father's striking down a sun, something I didn't expect other than the fact

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that it was in the trailer.

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say, you have a chance to watch the trailer, John.

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: They did a good job of mostly only putting early episodes stuff in the trailers.

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But this was one I wish they would have saved.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this would have been a better shock of it was not in the trailer.

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You could have done a number of other shots.

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I really think the king's goal thus to scone a bit over the top now.

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, okay we get it.

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to show them powering up, you know, piles of gold.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I want to show it.

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: How quickly can, can Dorvan Smith's turn gold or into all these beautiful, I mean, it?

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question.

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they are.

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that they are doing it in an normal pace or maybe a little bit more extra base.

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think this is the taxes coming in, right?

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: These are things that people have saved up.

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I really want to see you.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that in lighten.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not mining it and it's coming out as coins.

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's I say that kind of puzzle.

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask, what do you think of this whole,

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: D.C. is really just suddenly coming in and saying, we got it.

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we got to chain ourselves to the tree.

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to make sure that bulldozer can't come to town.

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They can't put up the new shopping mall.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I think this is a master singer who knows the mountain like her own body saying,

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: This has got to stop.

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And someone who has a very good sense of politics saying,

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: If the king is this wacko, our whole kingdom is in grave danger.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_04]: My only thought on that was at least a tail end of this scene where she's talking about,

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_04]: if he does raise a hand to us, then the whole kingdom will see right that'll expose him

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and then he'll lose his crown.

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But then he's a king.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you, how do dwarves choose their kings?

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there some sort of popular referendum?

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know that.

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That is what they did with Numinor.

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Did they?

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They had, they were not happy with tarp volunteer.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they said, all right, you are going to be on the back burner and your daughter is going to roll his region.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's Numinor and humans.

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not dwarves.

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_04]: But we're still all dealing with medieval fantasy.

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_04]: The inspired patterns of water retard throwing sharp objects.

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But we've already seen the king disappear to sunwants.

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So if he changes his mind yet again and says, no, both you and now your wife are also,

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: go play with your friends, the else you're out of here.

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I just have to do a quick how to, our game of thrones call back when Sean Bean is as the hand of the king.

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And he says, I annoying him and I atinked him.

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just love the way that he, yeah, I love that word attained.

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I can raise you up and I can throw you down.

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And forgive me, this is what I should ask have we done the anternative bit already?

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't talked about it much.

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I did read it.

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but it is there.

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought that was bizarre that he was going to cast it to him.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: No, he said he would, right?

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But why do we really need another battle dog?

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, come on people.

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was more that he wanted to get his, because I did he speak.

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: He did speak direct that he'd drawn third.

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to remember if Doran is at the,

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, he did.

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think he wants to reinforce first of all.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he wants to know how it's going with the dwarven rings because these are the first rings that are meant to corrupt, right?

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think that's what I like that.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if I had a big project, again, it's all about project management.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody titled one of their old, it's all about project management and it made me laugh so hard.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw that.

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing I figured out was an atar telling them that a reguion is about to be besieged was also a good drop.

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Because of something that is going to happen if they follow the lore and maybe this is a photo clip at this moment

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and I won't continue unless he's told me that I can say this.

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Out loud, what something that Prince Doran is going to do as a result of this?

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember, but I don't think we should say something he's going to do.

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Soon.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Now if you're secrets.

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, right.

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Now that you mentioned it, there is a little, there's a little geographical hand waving here because if there's at least three or four allegiance,

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_04]: and it works out in the forest, it immediately across the river outside of a reguion.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, an atar, sauron, you know, he's, he's tricksy like that.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But then how does he get there and back to go see the dwarves?

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just a little hand waving again.

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, it's fine.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And the top.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Moving on.

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I, because my art.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I want to know as how did all those legions get from both door to region?

[01:23:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And how do you be in a region and not know that there are multiple legions outside your doorstep?

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that King Doran has the answer.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole world is gone mad.

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We miss gripping.

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll, I just had to let that seam off and then move on to plot.

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: It's fine.

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a breaker and deal breaker.

[01:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just say, you know, his preparations to be a weapons dealer to make the matter of

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: mythril is really chilling.

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: In army.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He would be free for his father is heart-rending.

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's all of this stuff.

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Just, you know, in the pressure cooker, just amazing.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It almost reminds me of a real world thing.

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: A girl we're not going to talk about modern politics.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is a real world thing where parents get sucked into cults and their kids don't find

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: they're recognizable anymore.

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah.

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing for parents to kid, right?

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't kid to fall into cults and their parents are like, what happened to my kid?

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is almost like losing a family member to a cult here.

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's certainly losing it to a obsession.

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The, well, and that was really interesting.

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: What's in it?

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Because that was that whole, you could even say it's not necessarily a cult of an ideological

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_04]: cult or a quasi-religious cult.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Addiction can do the same thing, right?

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_04]: To, it's different substances.

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I almost read it like he's like, show me you are not addicted by taking off the drinks.

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Show me you're not addicted to the substance by stop taking that substance.

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's like, I got nothing approved of you.

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, smack.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, smack to this.

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's proofs the point far more than any else.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You could have said it done.

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_04]: The lots of precious, the word use of the word precious.

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's mine.

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It belongs to me.

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And then bear slips in that little music queue, which is just the beginning note

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: of the one ring theme in the Jackson move.

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, oh, you know.

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I could have done with just them as a cue.

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean,

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: you didn't need to precious.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Not mind.

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We've already had a precious reference for this.

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, you know, okay, we get it.

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We get it.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We get it.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not.

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you got to remember Marilyn, you and I are watching this.

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've watched the movies about a million times.

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of people are coming to this.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, yeah, I saw this in the early 2000s.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was fun.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: That's very annoying.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm coming back now.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, see?

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember this one?

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they do need to do that every day on them.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, me, I was thinking you're going to say that they need to do it

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: if the people who don't know from Tolkien and are coming to all of this.

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That too old.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that exists.

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's less common.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think probably more.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it comes.

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Come to it from seeing the Lord of the Rings movies.

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's a,

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: got many more people have only seen the movies than have gone as deep as we have.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, of course.

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Of course.

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's a narrow path to walk from the spectrum of, you know,

[01:26:53] [SPEAKER_04]: academic, a people who've been studying Tolkien their entire lives through to the, oh, yeah.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I saw that movie or I heard of that movie, you know, to, to the bearers to fans and to be able to weave that.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty tough.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_04]: That is.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Was, um,

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So when we got the little ball rug,

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_04]: little baby ball rug thing was he kind of,

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: the way I read it was he was invoking the spirit of the ball rug.

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, oh, fine.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: You're not going to give me some me thrill.

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm going to, um,

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_04]: a send a text message to my ball rock friend down there and wait, hey, you up.

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, it's time to not chill.

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's time to wake up and start raging.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I think to me, it kind of was him using his mystical powers to tap on the shoulder of the ball rug.

[01:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I liked that.

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I was also thinking it's him, um,

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: verifying that the ball rug is there.

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And that works too.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And able to, you know, respond to his guns when needed.

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Me and me kidding on my our net, you know?

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Fire net.

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: What are you talking about?

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What's their favorite browser for web searching?

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Fire Fox.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: One last plea here.

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you calling me a my our David?

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, John.

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm at least, yeah, carry on.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's your title on the on the discord is a Valor, aren't you?

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess I am.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You are.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You are very exciting.

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: One last plea here.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: A area tries to convince her father to swear,

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: feelty to far or so and he refuses saying there is nothing left for them to say to each other.

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Maryel arrives to tell Ellen deal to bow to the king,

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but he assures her that he has faith in the Valor and that if they wish him to live then he will.

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It is hardly mercy to ask a man to set his integrity a flame.

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: If after all this you see is pride,

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_04]: then there are no words left for us to speak.

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Whoo.

[01:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So good.

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So good.

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And he really has seen.

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_02]: A audience has groubled and licked the floor.

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We're permission to bring Maryel to see Ellen deal.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So what happened to Noah Meals in Newmanell?

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Change and tone and the floor here.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I didn't think to do this.

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Good one.

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Maryel begging Ellen deal to bow to the photos on.

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And the response,

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the sea is always right.

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is such a wonderful reinterpretation of that concept.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not about the power of the sea and it's always going to be you if you do anything wrong.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's about the sea is a separate deeper representation of the Valor.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're back to Ulmo is the sea and us say and we can.

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Ulmo sends messages through the sea, right?

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Those who are listening to you.

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And through the sea creatures.

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting because I was actually just thinking to myself when I was watching that particular part was this hour sea in the primary world is indifferent.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But they're seeing the middle of the middle in middle earth is in the middle.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's the real world.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're saying a little bit.

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You're one foot in each world.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_04]: In the middle world.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, a little bit of a you know, theirs is a it's an it's in a live it's a it's a myth it's part of their mythology it's part of the.

[01:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And it has sentience.

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, interesting.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually a very indigenous notion.

[01:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The world around us is alive and we communicate with it and it means it's with us.

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So that makes sense.

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll talk to the spirit of the sea.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is why then the sea worm is a avatar of that.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I didn't mean to do that.

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: That was a complete accident.

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't want to do the James Cameron.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a talking.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.

[01:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What was that movie even about you know?

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It was about white savers and he can lock the disasters and and you know a fair point Marilyn.

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's exactly what it was.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it was like just got so tired of it.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Pivoting off that I did have a thought and this goes to LN deals.

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Attitudes here.

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_04]: This line of faith and finaticism.

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a line but this idea that you know I have this faith.

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And it calls me to action.

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But when, but when does that action become finaticism?

[01:31:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is the is the the observers.

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And not in the eyes of the actor.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So the this idea that okay, well I'm going to I'm going to do this really crazy thing and everybody else is going.

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_04]: That's crazy you shouldn't do that but I have my faith like in this comment.

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_02]: What's up?

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying you're crazy.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You're finatic.

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Give this up.

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It lend me the saying this is who I am.

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a part of my very being.

[01:32:28] Right.

[01:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that so?

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I was trying to think of a test there or just kind of tease that out a little bit.

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And does your finaticism benefit more people than just yourself or just your immediate community.

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Then maybe we could say okay well that's not destructive finatic behavior right.

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Does that make sense?

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it also calls into question who gets to decide what if an attic is.

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And usually it's the dominant culture.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's more of a power over kind of a concept.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_02]: What you decide to do with your life is one thing what you base those decisions upon is another and some people will say will the course you should save your life?

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's you know biological imperative.

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you call it?

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But if someone says I'm willing to risk my life for this.

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's only finaticism in the eyes of people who don't hold your release.

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is precisely what he ought in is say.

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have mixed feelings on this especially if we try to bring this over to the real world.

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like my dad used to tell me this little allegory he might have come up with he might have read it somewhere.

[01:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when I was a kid he used to say you know men stuck in a hurricane zone and day before the hurricane he's told you got to evacuate.

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And he says no my faith in God will save.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yes right.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I know this story.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I said to you this I said to this and I said to you right right.

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think comes to rescue him if just for people who don't know it if we're going to got a threat?

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know.

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But also in the Westwing so.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know it wasn't really it was okay.

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well anyway it's like then then a guy you know the water is rising somebody comes in a boat to save him and then somebody comes in a helicopter to save him a day later.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And eventually he does and he goes to the pearly gates and he says God why didn't you save me goes I sent you a warning I sent you a boat I sent you a helicopter.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I do think that there is something to be said what you know if you are a person of faith.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You you don't have to wait for a miracle some miracles can be ordinary things and so when I see.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Mirial not even try to swim.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little like I don't love the messaging of that right like if she's.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But if she's blind where she's supposed to swim to that's fair.

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_04]: You think Ellen deal would have done a similar thing but then she was submitting herself to the sea.

[01:34:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but again waiting for a waiting for judgment.

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh wait.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think Ellen deal was would have done the same thing.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: If Mirio had not insisted on some shooting for whatever happened to that don't test God bit from the.

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You were viable I mean we really risk it that it's the reverse of that it's that we are putting.

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: People to a test that we're asking God to judge I've got a whole section here on trial by our deal if you're interested in.

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm great.

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So actually I want to go.

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: One does unless one is in that place of.

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Other convinced me.

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So going back to to faith versus in fanaticism.

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_04]: It's one thing if you're self sacrificing for your faith.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, versus I'm going to use my faith and my fanaticism to go over there or even stay here.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And use that faith and fanaticism to dominate and control others.

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That are not of my faith and planet or even within my own faith I'm going to use it as a way to dominate in control.

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's the that's where I was going like I was think that's where my mind went to was the external action as opposed to the internal.

[01:36:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to allow myself to be sacrificed for my faith.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a right.

[01:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right and even someone who decides to engage in protests actions and glue themselves to the street for a pause.

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Initially it appears that they're the only ones who are bearing the brunt of whatever consequences there are of this.

[01:36:32] Yeah.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Does that person have a family?

[01:36:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Are their children?

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: They're paying a consequence too.

[01:36:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you talked with them about it in advance?

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you come as a family to that decision?

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you acknowledged that even with that permission if that's what you want to call it?

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You are hurting your family and they are hurt and they are angry and upset.

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a comp and as we see,

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Elendiel is cutting the final ties with his daughter.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Master Man in China.

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But I actually really liked how he didn't argue with her about it.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He was just like like if you are that far down the path I can't help you.

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I am this far down like that.

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not speaking the same language anymore.

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And he says exactly that's a really good way to phrase that John is there are no words left for us to speak.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it going to be so?

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And this goes back to this idea that a person is their word.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have when and this comes up in the our conversation around the movie Pray when we record that tomorrow morning.

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And there is something that happens in that movie that made me think oh well get out of your phone and take a picture of this so that you can show everybody else what's going on.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like no, you can't do that because this is you know the 1700s and then it made me think oh when I as a person you know would go from this community to that community if I was a trader or a traveler or moving around.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And the people in this other place didn't know me I am my word and if we don't all have a cultural norm that what I am you know David son of Richard.

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_04]: If that's not true if I'm boasting or I'm lying that I'm breaking the social compact because there is no other truth.

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Telling there is no fourth estate necessarily in these in these other times and other formations of society.

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And so when Ellen Diel says you know if you're asking me to to.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: You know set my pride aside then you're well, would for God is the pride but he's saying you know that mind if I'm not going to self emulate my integrity.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Because my word is I am my word and my word is me.

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is why we come across trial by our deal.

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: A community that can't decide would in as essence turn it over to the deity over they understood that to me and this goes all the way back to a biblical or deals in in Judea times.

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And as late as the 1800s in England they were using a form of trial by our deal.

[01:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it might be or deal by fire which could be walking on hot coals or carrying hot iron in your hand and then seeing a couple days later you know where your wounds might cause a heal to where they've been.

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And that determines your innocence or guilt and then by water,

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: the trial by water, hot water, cold water and probably better known trial by combat and you choose a champion to fight for you.

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: This was introduced by the Normans in 1066 or thereabouts and that was the thing that continued in England as late as 1810.

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So you see it in Persia, you see an African nature is in Hindu cultures they all had different trials but the principle was if the person on trial was innocent they would be protected from the death of the damage by the deity.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Or by the virtue of their truth if you will.

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you get the witch trials of course at the 17th century.

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_02]: The person would be had their hands and feet tied together in tossed into deep water if they floated their guilty they say to the mom there it isn't but they were probably also drowned.

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know if you just weighed them against a duck.

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think eight times easier time determining.

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So in the this is the conclusion of that of dueling.

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Right as well because yeah I'm I'm going we're going to resolve.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_04]: By by combat is out. Yeah same thing.

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Just thinking of the movie to do list by red Scott.

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh okay, okay.

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But this also raises all kinds of questions for me if the worm is supposed to be a carrier the will of that lot.

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Does that mean that when it was chasing the ship and season one.

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It was because salad on was on board and the valour trying to get him.

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And then how was salad unable to overpower the will of the valour in the worm in season two which we saw him do you know he could just kind of hung there in the water stream if the worm on the worm turn around and went away.

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was an interesting comment when Fathers on says he's trying not to antagonize the faithful and I think that's kind of a tail eight.

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Just say and also the horns are beautiful on their tone is beautiful but can the sea worm really hear the mother water.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah that's a little questionable.

[01:41:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Or can we hear the sea monster on the front of the surface?

[01:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: How long have they been practicing this?

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: How long have they been summoning the sea creature?

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm wondering what us say and we in an end all know would think about all this.

[01:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And clearly it backfired on the Kingsman because they didn't believe in any of the superstitious nonsense.

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But they still believe they could summon the creature.

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and they haven't had the horns like you said.

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Right and expect it to you know make this child out of whoever will end up going in the water.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's it's very dramatic though I have to say and of course when Miele was rescued.

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew that she was going to substitute herself partly because of trailers but still.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I got a lot of trailers there.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Stop spoiling things and trailers.

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah it's kind of hard not to I suppose but even so.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Just show me a picture of some pretty rings and I'll come.

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah alright let's keep going because we've already been an hour for you.

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Almost a zoological protest I'm calling this.

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Nervy brings his team to begin digging deeper but finds Disa standing in the way when he tries to have her move.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: She sings to summon a swarm of bats which chase the miner miners away.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Doren four comes out of the shadows and support and tells and Disa tells him this is only the beginning.

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like yeah I really know the study.

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I will remain out of sight in support.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I will quietly support you from behind this pillar.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a lot to say.

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a lot to say.

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a lot to say.

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You probably would have jumped in to things not in that.

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: They really need to say.

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They really need to say.

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to say.

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to say.

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was Disa's bat moments so that was my basic comment.

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you have did it?

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Nothing I have nothing to say about this.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh okay.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I like really deep.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They faked me out with Doren being behind the pillar.

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I thought he didn't show up and he did, which was good.

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Trial by a biss.

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we've already talked a lot about it at the background for a minute.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we've been discussing this the whole episode.

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But Horns blow as the new menorien summon a seworm for tribal trial by a biss.

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I do live the name of that by the way.

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And Lendil prepares to be thrown in the water.

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But Miriel comes to take his place as is her right.

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Ferris O'Learned.

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_00]: He must buy the letter of the law, allow the substitution.

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And so he accepts it.

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Miriel is thrown in and pulled down where the seworm wars at her.

[01:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Before Bell Zigar can declare her guilty, she's brought back to the surface alive.

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And he announces the innocent verdict.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Lendil reintroduces her as tarmirial, queen of the sea and the onlookers,

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: sheer for her.

[01:44:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Ferris O'Learned looks into the Palantir and sees the summit of Mount Thume

[01:44:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and a vision of Sauron as hellbrand.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But to Sauron then see a vision of fatter's on at the same time.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Well that dude hears a question because what in the whole thing of the reason

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: you could see Sauron in the Palantir of Orthodox or the Ringians?

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Because Sauron had one of the Palantiri.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They're just not using it that way at all.

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: They're using it for shattering and goodness knows what else at this point.

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not, if they do have some sort of a system in mind,

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not getting it.

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I do love the CGI for the Palantir.

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_04]: It looks great.

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That was so cool.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The cracks.

[01:45:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like we should have had this one in order to the Ringians.

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But then at that end in post, you have George Lucas and you go it.

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to jump back quickly to something that from the prison scene.

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And then that goes into this.

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you guys picking up on a,

[01:45:51] [SPEAKER_04]: a romantic love developing between

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Midiel and L. and L. and L. and L.

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm of two minds.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, we have to remember that N. has no sight.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And so any kind of contact.

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe necessary to establish connection other than looking for my die.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: At the same time, it does make me uncomfortable and I really hope they're not going there.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: There seems to be a depth of,

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: They are, but.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because she was saying that just the way that they were acting and reacting and she was,

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_04]: he was like, oh, I'm going to sacrifice myself and she's like,

[01:46:34] [SPEAKER_04]: what about my feelings?

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, forget she was saying multiple things.

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, for the realm and for the good of everyone.

[01:46:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But also what about me, because I have feel,

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and I interpreted what she was saying was that I have feelings for you.

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That may have been part of it.

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I interpreted it as if you go,

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I am literally friendless and alone.

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's true also.

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Champion.

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I have no champion.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I have no one to speak on my behalf.

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And as she says, we need someone strong to hold.

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: All that.

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Together in that way and I cannot,

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot be that if Ferdus on is going to claim the throne.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Now what's going to happen now?

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a glorious moment when I cried at our acclamation.

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But I wonder what sorts of horrors are going to be visited upon the faithful as a result of all that.

[01:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know that Ferdus on isn't going to lie down to rule over.

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's just not going to happen.

[01:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So any turns instead to that Elvis drink it that he ought to be and was so dismissive of.

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_00]: He has he has concepts of a plan but he's working on it.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Moving on.

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if we have something else.

[01:47:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I just had to call these two comps out really quick with this pool scene.

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I got both foundations season two.

[01:47:58] [SPEAKER_04]: We had a similar scene.

[01:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it reminded me of.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the other one was a black paint, the black Panther movie.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_04]: They have a trial by combat in a pool of water like this and so nice.

[01:48:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I really didn't understand how that was supposed to work or how you were supposed to understand that working.

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_04]: No, the construction was all wacky about how she got.

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it was walking along above water and all the sun.

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's she was underneath?

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then later on she's.

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Scattered.

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_02]: What?

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I like Jonah.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that actually.

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good.

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good image to hold.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was wearing white.

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And the way there were some things.

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_04]: That seemed almost like it was almost like a wedding scene to me in some ways.

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a it was ceremonial scene.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But there was almost some touching of a wedding in some ways.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, in Venice, the doge for hundreds of years would go out in a gondola in the middle of the larger sea area.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: There and toss a wedding ring into the ocean as a symbol of the doge marrying the sea.

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Huh, interesting.

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's cool.

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't see it's always wearing it.

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And now the seas on the ground in Venice because that's how it works.

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not kidding.

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you seen the tiktoks or videos of how on Venice is right now?

[01:49:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's bad right now.

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're going around with rain boots on the all day all day.

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a pretty awful.

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm beginning to get a new layer of the sea as always right when a lendil claims that as his justification for going ahead with the trail by this.

[01:49:43] [SPEAKER_02]: When he's in jail talking about it with me or the.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's saying, you know how can you do this and he said, well, the sea is always right.

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Very interesting.

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to a tenuous alliance.

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel Sussaron is in a reggian forging rings to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth and that he will not flee until that is accomplished.

[01:50:07] [SPEAKER_00]: She agrees to an alliance with Adara to stop him and says, El Rambles soon arrive within army and Nenia to seal the city.

[01:50:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally got a ring name right?

[01:50:15] [SPEAKER_00]: She's like my ring.

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_00]: The way she announces that I feel like it was supposed to be like a spot pilgrim close up of an artifact here.

[01:50:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Adara presses a Galadriel for a commitment on the future of the orcs but she will not give a definitive answer.

[01:50:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Adara thanks her for the information and says he will use it to destroy both a reggian and Sauron.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_00]: She says that her is playing into his hand and taking the bait, but he orders her bound.

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Adara blows the war horn and the orcs move to a reggian.

[01:50:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I didn't really see how it could end well and it didn't.

[01:50:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And we she talked about kind of the deception before but David.

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we I was just going to say we did talk a lot about sort of all this already but something that I had here my notes was.

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_04]: The extent to which Galadriel now is very, very almost fundamentally compromised.

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she is so affected by Adara who caught and originally compromised by Halbrands, Alran.

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And so what does that mean for her leadership for her her ability to hold trust of you know,

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_04]: to hold Gilgad's trust and to lead troops when any time she comes up against powerful beings or anybody who's you know got you know some wits about them.

[01:51:49] [SPEAKER_04]: She is manipulatable right so maybe that's why she needs to wear nnya to keep herself sort of healed in some way I don't know.

[01:51:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And what is that next meeting with Alron going to look like yeah, that's a really interesting question.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: That's out about that.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And it would have looked a heck of a lot worse if she had arrived writing next to a dog in front of the orcs so at least that has been spared.

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Is she going to throw anybody there?

[01:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: What you did.

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I am, yeah, at this point I kind of think the answer is yes but.

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I know where this is going because of the trailer if there was a line that kind of spoils I think work of Adria is going.

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And again this is all non-canons and this is not like us being Qt about book lore.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have a theory what's going to happen but maybe you'd rather aid not to play your little play.

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you're a little bit.

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's save it.

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to overuse this.

[01:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe that's getting a little old all right.

[01:52:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sick of it already.

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It's no longer demure but I wanted to bet some internet points.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Never mind.

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, yeah.

[01:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll put it on the paper.

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to keep it for around.

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Did by the way, did anyone see Athena a sharing on the discord this.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Summary of photos journey?

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, I've been on it.

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was lovely.

[01:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine it says photos journey is so wild.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Like imagine your uncle goes missing after his birthday party and his old stoner friend from

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_00]: out of town tells you that the souvenir he brought back from a biggest trip 80 years ago isn't actually

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Satan's mood ring.

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And now zombie assassins are coming to burn down your town on us.

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You and your long guy meet up with a medieval who's here in a dark guest for a pub.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_04]: That is awesome.

[01:53:44] [SPEAKER_01]: David, your face is changing.

[01:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Great.

[01:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a theater for sharing.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It was terrific.

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_04]: That's amazing.

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_04]: That is great.

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That's something like Hunter has Thompson would write.

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you imagine that Gonso version of Lord of the Rings?

[01:54:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's even better than what Matt Magazine did with board of the rings.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So board of the rings was a book that we read incessantly.

[01:54:09] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got that copy got passed around a lot when I was a kid.

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I read board of the rings before I read Lord of the Rings.

[01:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't surprise me.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's pretty funny.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess we'll see what happens with the works next time.

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, something interesting.

[01:54:26] [SPEAKER_04]: The Elven forces are now in Mordor or heading towards Mordor but all of the work forces are up here now.

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's an interesting sort of swirling around and then we'll see what Numenor does.

[01:54:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if Elran will have the ring with him or if he'll leave it with Gilgallet?

[01:54:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean that's another question.

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Could you wear two rings?

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have to wear.

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It could.

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a pouch.

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you want to tell him.

[01:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Elran is wearing it.

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Come on.

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think he's going to wear it at all.

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Anotars power is the last scene here.

[01:55:03] [SPEAKER_00]: In a Reggie on the Siege alarm sounds and Killebrembo tries to see what's going on.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But Sauron tries to stop him and Killebrembo pushes him away.

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Before the Elf can go outside, Anotar puts a veil over his eyes so that when he sees the city,

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_00]: he sees it happy at a piece.

[01:55:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Amitar gives Killebrembo a mythical powder and the hammer of Fainer and tells him the rings of power will make the silverills for gotten.

[01:55:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Killebrembo returns to the forge to make the Mammish rings and Amitar smirks as the orcs the siege of city.

[01:55:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I like the way that Anotar was manipulating him saying that the rings are going to be greater than the silverills.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That was like awesome.

[01:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's precious.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, precious again.

[01:55:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, I got it here too.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Killebrembo was aroused at that sentence.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Swing!

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_04]: As they used to say.

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing.

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing.

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the same.

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That was Fainer stops hammer right?

[01:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh yeah.

[01:56:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny when I first watched it, I thought he'd actually crushed Fainer's hammer and turned it into the

[01:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: gold dust because I wasn't sure where he got it.

[01:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: He was worse than Seek said no, but then when I watched it the second time I saw he had the both behind his back when he first

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_02]: walked out so first it was the dust and then it was the hammer and I mean.

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're not getting a little bit of a throw from that's a good question.

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hello.

[01:56:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, Salron on his way out he could you know, cloak himself in darkness and just go in the nearest mind because he could

[01:56:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Sus it out and scoop up some dust and be on his way.

[01:56:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Any time.

[01:56:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.

[01:56:49] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't think he.

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean he could have gotten尊ed to give it to him but I think it would have been complicated because a

[01:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Hing, no, he is surrounded by people who are doing all the digging and you know how do you get him off by himself?

[01:57:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's finally ground why was it finally ground?

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_00]: What happened?

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Salron, my R.

[01:57:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_02]: My Alex, excuse me.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the jazz handy thing now that we can do without a we're seeing.

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm we're.

[01:57:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Two episodes left.

[01:57:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we don't have time for those kinds of things that he's, I suppose.

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say when I saw these peaceful scenes quote unquote in the trailers, I thought,

[01:57:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I got like that's fake.

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm actually turned out to be fake.

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe you are worked to the bone and you are desperate for any good news.

[01:57:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, yeah, all right.

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: My eyes are telling me that this is a happy city and I'm just going to let it be.

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I go do my work.

[01:57:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I mean it was already after dark when before he walked outside he walked outside in a daylight that could have been a clue.

[01:57:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But as you say, oh, I think he's lost track of time completely.

[01:58:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, his mind is is completely gone.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I expect that once the first fire bomb actually lands, he might finally realize that there's something wrong.

[01:58:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe one can only help.

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe one can only help.

[01:58:16] [SPEAKER_04]: There was an filming thing.

[01:58:18] [SPEAKER_04]: There was a cool day to night transition with the camera doing as a spin around and we go from day to night, which is a nice

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_04]: rotational thing.

[01:58:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I got big time siege of Gondor vibes with the trick of shay things throwing stuff up.

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And now we have a we have a penultimate episode to see what happens.

[01:58:44] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to have a big fight.

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I expect they're going to leave us hanging almost as much as they did with this episode on the next episode.

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean last season's been ultimate episode made a lot of people angry.

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That was the pyroclastic flow.

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You're right.

[01:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: People were.

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I never utter that phrase again.

[01:59:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, you love it.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've already used to you've already embraced with our hearts bigger and our food johns.

[01:59:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a matter of time before pyroclastic flow.

[01:59:13] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't think.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We say it ever we could just be like, okay, things happen and see the one season too.

[01:59:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I like season two season two is definitely a lot better.

[01:59:27] Unquestion.

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think a full fireball is going to fall on telebremembering.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be like, oh, I must have touched some hot water.

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, possibly, but he did, he did finally have his one moment of absolute rebellion before.

[01:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So it won't take some out to see his beautiful city when he says, I've had enough of you telling me what to do.

[01:59:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, again, daily in a dollar short.

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He's too far it didn't.

[01:59:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's interesting because this whole season they've kind of been layering the whole like one

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: of the summer months and it's really hard to get him out.

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, the whole true roots image and this sneaky slime and yeah.

[02:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I like that they built this.

[02:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a sudden thing.

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, they definitely worked it up over pretty much over most of season two.

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really glad that we got a whole season of Charles dance becoming,

[02:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: which Charles, Charles, Charles, Charles Edwards becoming more and more into

[02:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Amateur or hot cellar on as some of the kids say, I think you mean Charlie Vickers becoming more to

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Anateur.

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm saying Charles Edwards, Kelle Brumbore,

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Becoming more and more like enamored with.

[02:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: A enamored with him with this amateur.

[02:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sorry, I missed that part.

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think now the people who are questioning why he was cast as Kelle Brumbore in season one are getting their answer.

[02:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did not like the portrayal in season one.

[02:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I went down saying like, I'm just really not feeling it,

[02:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but he's really doing an amazing job and see what I get it.

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean season one was not his time to shine if he was there and he was,

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you were there laying track and whatnot.

[02:01:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[02:01:11] Right.

[02:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's close this thing out.

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to send feedback, send it to LOTRathaloreHounds.com or go to our website

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and head to the contact page.

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get everything in the show notes, including the link tree where you can subscribe for premium content such as our lower cast and our show guide.

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of great stuff happened right now.

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: David, do you want to tell me what's coming?

[02:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Very quick.

[02:01:35] [SPEAKER_04]: What has come is we had, I find that got the alien Romulus podcast out.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I heard the very beginning.

[02:01:45] Okay.

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Big editing.

[02:01:48] [SPEAKER_04]: We start with our spoiler free hot takes.

[02:01:49] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you haven't seen the movie yet, you can listen to about the first 15 minutes or show.

[02:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I went in further because I'm never going to see it.

[02:01:57] Okay.

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Spoiler Schmoyler.

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.

[02:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I've already heard that it was off the Pequillus scale.

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.

[02:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, John, we've got a lot going on.

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me give a quick shout out first to our newest podcast, Never Mind the Music.

[02:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[02:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Mark and Nicole.

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: He is a music professor.

[02:02:17] [SPEAKER_04]: She's a psych professor and they take a song and they take it apart.

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really cool.

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the third episode they had out crossroads by bone thugs and harmony.

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_04]: They talk about grief.

[02:02:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And they never thought about the stuff that they were talking about.

[02:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Or when they do a episode on the sign by ease of base,

[02:02:39] [SPEAKER_04]: they talk about young collective consciousness stuff.

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really great.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Owen and the one that they released today was the cover songs.

[02:02:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was an amazing, I didn't finish it yet, but it was such a good little side track podcast.

[02:02:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So go to their podcast now.

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Stop what you're doing.

[02:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Go subscribe.

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_04]: They do a wide range of songs.

[02:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So even if you're like, oh, that's all.

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not interested that.

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Just listen to them because what they're talking about is really fascinating.

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're really amazing.

[02:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know from any of the music that they're starting with,

[02:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but it doesn't matter listeners because they deconstructed and put it back together again

[02:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in such a way that is fascinating and you don't only have to know.

[02:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good way.

[02:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You never mind the music.

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: One might have a mind.

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to listen to the whole cover episode.

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was fantastic.

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So everybody go, don't pay no attention to them calling it a side track.

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't don't let that dismiss you.

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: This is essential content.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_04]: It is essential.

[02:03:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We're, uh, John and Alicia are starting up on Agatha that starts this week.

[02:03:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I think a couple of days ago.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just so drop.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in November, Alicia's going to be joining me for

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_04]: June prophecy.

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be covering that week to week.

[02:04:03] [SPEAKER_04]: John and Alicia are covering Agatha week to week.

[02:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And then silo is coming out before the end of the year two, right?

[02:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I remember my right about.

[02:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everybody's tired.

[02:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you man, I'm exhausted.

[02:04:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They, uh, John and Alicia, Alicia is like one of the, is like one of the hardest working

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_04]: people in all of podcasting dumb.

[02:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: She is a powerhouse.

[02:04:25] [SPEAKER_04]: The her and John also recorded a, um,

[02:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: we will their new podcast, which is called comics versus that's their new top

[02:04:33] [SPEAKER_04]: of the podcast and they do a big thing on the end of the DC EU and the rise of the DC

[02:04:42] [SPEAKER_04]: EU.

[02:04:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, so that's a very interesting conversation.

[02:04:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and then they did an Agatha prep conversation as well.

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was really cool.

[02:04:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And then they're going to be doing some coverage of the penguin and the Joker

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_04]: two movie.

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know how they're going to cover all of that, but that's coming.

[02:05:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Plus we have spooked over coming up and we're covering closer guys.

[02:05:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And Alicia's doing a whole bunch of that of coverage for that as well.

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_04]: As well as recording the Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice episode.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think tomorrow.

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the day this recording happens, he's going to record that.

[02:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was supposed to be on it and then I had more travel added to my life.

[02:05:21] [SPEAKER_04]: This is not odd.

[02:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: This one is scheduling on this Beetlejuice.

[02:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: This guy's, this is a miracle that this pot is getting recorded to me because we had so many

[02:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: scheduling issues with this.

[02:05:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And then she's planning for wicked as well, which is kind of come out later this year.

[02:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And if I can make me going along with wicked too, see?

[02:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I've got a couple of special projects.

[02:05:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I just wrapped up on Alien Romulus.

[02:05:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got one more podcast for our Alien coverage this year, which is going to be community reactions.

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be talking to a number of people about the movie.

[02:05:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But we finally had our full one shot on it.

[02:06:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was joined by Alicia, Jean and our good friend Ron Dawson.

[02:06:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I was able to make it in and sit in.

[02:06:07] [SPEAKER_04]: We have a really good time with that.

[02:06:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got a couple of special projects in the works.

[02:06:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Star Trek, The Motion Picture, It's the 45th anniversary for that.

[02:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Looking forward to that.

[02:06:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and you're going to join as well as I believe Jean and I think Ron is unknown that one as well.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we got to have one or two voice there.

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[02:06:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to be doing a special part.

[02:06:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to do a lower-hounds kind of conversation.

[02:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm going to do a crossover podcast with a podcast called The Captain's Pod.

[02:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Great.

[02:06:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And Ian and I are going to do kind of a broader meta conversation about Star Trek and how the

[02:06:44] [SPEAKER_04]: 1979 movie, how it reboot the franchise, how it rebooted the franchise and all of that.

[02:06:50] [SPEAKER_04]: The other project I'm working on, which I'm just starting to work on now is it's the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons.

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm trying to figure out how we're going to apply some coverage to that.

[02:07:00] [SPEAKER_04]: For subscribers, we just had our second breakfast podcast.

[02:07:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We covered Bagels, Alicia and I, Jean, you had, couldn't join us for that.

[02:07:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But maybe we had a lot of fun talking about Bagels.

[02:07:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we last month for 11seys, our movie club for subscribers.

[02:07:20] [SPEAKER_04]: We did V for Vandetta and boy, did we go deep on that?

[02:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: It was supposed to be like an hour long pod and it was like two hours.

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

[02:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to leave Shaw of it some point.

[02:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, come on.

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we need like a podcast intervention for?

[02:07:34] [SPEAKER_04]: We might.

[02:07:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Or we need to go like Calibre and just provide her with all of the necessities of life.

[02:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: We do blogger as a podcast forever.

[02:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: You're talking about the blogging to the Matrix.

[02:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Just podcasts, you know, waving off of her.

[02:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But tomorrow she's the ringer's hammer for your podcast with it.

[02:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[02:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[02:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: No, you know what's a better analogy.

[02:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Joe Rogan's hammer.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: We have the movie Pray and we're going to be covering that tomorrow morning, Jon.

[02:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So we should be getting to bed here very soon.

[02:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I self to finish watching the movie.

[02:08:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Alicia, speaking of Alicia again,

[02:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Walshiff does book club, the second part of the dust book break down,

[02:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: which is the last part of the book reading the book project is going to be coming out in the silo trilogy.

[02:08:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Marilyn, you and her recorded a podcast, part two of a podcast,

[02:08:37] [SPEAKER_04]: and then she's going to be a podcast.

[02:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Can in folklore of the old republic discussions with Marilyn,

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_04]: you guys talk about siff and where Walsh?

[02:08:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, imagine that.

[02:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's on this Star Wars canon timeline podcast.

[02:08:51] [SPEAKER_04]: How does Alicia do all this?

[02:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Is she a multi-dimensional being to spend as much time?

[02:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: How does she keep all this in her brain?

[02:08:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Is her brain like the tardis to like stole that?

[02:09:01] [SPEAKER_04]: She knows a lot of IPs.

[02:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: She only recently ever rejected me my request on,

[02:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: does she want to be on this project and working on with me?

[02:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you know what?

[02:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I support that.

[02:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I support you having boundaries Alicia.

[02:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to two hours and ten minutes of this podcast,

[02:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Alicia, I support you having boundaries.

[02:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Good job saying no.

[02:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard, but the practice is often enough and you can do it.

[02:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[02:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: That's plenty.

[02:09:32] [SPEAKER_04]: There's more, but that's plenty.

[02:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I limited David.

[02:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I limited it to the weak coming.

[02:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my desire.

[02:09:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so hard we have seen you.

[02:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to know the 50th anniversary of D&D.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, that's like seven podcasts for now.

[02:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Just leave it off.

[02:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Leave it off.

[02:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get hype.

[02:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I want the hype.

[02:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[02:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But now they're all gone.

[02:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's, let's, let's do our quick thank you, sir.

[02:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you do it?

[02:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[02:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have music loaded up.

[02:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a sleepy night.

[02:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do our sleepy thank yous.

[02:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Nars?

[02:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Aaron K. Tillard, the thriller, Dork of the Ninjas.

[02:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: 271, Captain Jinsie 56, Athena A. Adrian Audrion.

[02:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Tina, Lestu, Nancy M and Gustav Partition.

[02:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are our Discord server boosters.

[02:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: They boost the Discord servers.

[02:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We have special features and thank you very much to them.

[02:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Then our Patreon and supercast lore masters.

[02:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Our top tier subscribers.

[02:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We always like to give a thank you to them.

[02:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They are Samarchen, Michael G. Michelle E. David W. Brian P. S. C. Peter O'H.

[02:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But Tina W. Adam S. Nancy M. Doves 71. Brian 863. Frederick H. Sarah L.

[02:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Garrett C. Eric F. Matthew M. Sarah M. DJ Mueh.

[02:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Andrew B. Cuang Yu. Dead I Jedi Bob. Nathan T. Alex V. Aaron T. Sub zero. Aaron K.

[02:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Delle V. Mother Ship 61. Nars. Kathy W. Lestu. Jeffrey B. Elisa Yu. Fassi Yu.

[02:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Neil F. Benby. Charlotte M. And Adrienne.

[02:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you everyone. It's been a long week and a long night, but I think we had a good conversation tonight.

[02:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And we look forward to seeing our Patreon Supercast subscribers on the lore cast.

[02:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, see you then.