Silo: S2-e5 – "Descent" into madness

[00:00:26] Welcome back to Wool-Shift-Dust. I'm Alicia, here with Luke to walk you through how to restore a hard drive, to worry about the well-being of Danny, and to break down all the other details of Episode 5 of Season 2 of Silo, Descent. So, Luke, before we get into our own thoughts on the episode, can you remind everyone of our spoiler policy?

[00:00:56] We haven't seen anything past that, even though we do have screeners. We are watching these episodes one at a time. So yeah, so all of our speculation is genuine. We are neither omniscient nor omnipresent.

[00:01:11] So Alicia has read all the books that go into making the TV series Silo. I have read none of them.

[00:01:19] Alicia will talk about stuff in the books if it's already happened in Season 1 or in the first five episodes of Season 2, but she won't talk about anything past that in order to keep my book innocence intact.

[00:01:33] Yes, and the book innocence of all the show-only people at home, because I know there are a lot of you.

[00:01:39] But just because I've read the book, it doesn't mean I know what's going to happen because they're changing a lot. They're adding a lot of new characters.

[00:01:45] So I'm often just as clueless as non-readers.

[00:01:48] But for anyone who is interested in all the book spoilers, we do have a separate feed, the Book Club feed, through Patreon and Supercast, where Abby and I speculate about...

[00:02:00] We drop one major lore bomb a week, related to the episode usually.

[00:02:05] And then we speculate on all the other potential teases about what might be to come based on what's aired in the most recent episode.

[00:02:12] So we'll talk more about the book club at the end.

[00:02:14] But we're here to talk about Episode 2 of Season 5, Descent.

[00:02:20] No, you mean Episode 5 of Season 2?

[00:02:22] Yep, Episode 5 of Season 2, Descent. This is our second recording in a row.

[00:02:26] You might have heard us say in a mailbag that we're about to record this episode.

[00:02:29] Well, here we are.

[00:02:30] Here we are, yeah.

[00:02:32] So what do you think that the title Descent refers to?

[00:02:35] I mean, it obviously refers to Knox and Shirley and Carla and Walker trying to make it back down to mechanical.

[00:02:46] Yeah.

[00:02:47] I think it also maybe talks about Sims' dissent from head of the judicial raid as to what we now have confirmed is a purely nominal post in terms of being judge.

[00:03:00] But it looks like a promotion to an outsider, so that's clever.

[00:03:06] Yeah.

[00:03:06] But it always kind of reminded me of those guys that get made like head of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, like the technical president of the Soviet Union, but they have no actual power.

[00:03:22] Right.

[00:03:22] Yeah.

[00:03:24] Yeah.

[00:03:24] And I think it may also, Descent may also refer to Bernard's state of mind.

[00:03:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:31] Because that guy, that guy's conscience is bothering him, I think, this episode.

[00:03:36] And I think it's also, there's also a Descent into the Madness of the Crowds thing going on.

[00:03:41] Yes.

[00:03:42] Yeah.

[00:03:43] Yeah.

[00:03:44] So this episode was aired Thursday, December 12th or Friday, December 13th, depending on where you live, 2024.

[00:03:52] And it was written by Jenny D'Armit-Strom, whose past work includes episodes on shows like Dollhouse and Justified.

[00:03:58] And the director for this episode was Amber Templemore.

[00:04:03] And she is one half, she's the Bert of the directing duo Bert and Bertie.

[00:04:08] And we talked about them last season because they directed season one's episodes six and seven.

[00:04:14] Okay.

[00:04:15] But it's just one of them this time.

[00:04:17] So.

[00:04:17] Okay.

[00:04:18] Interesting.

[00:04:19] What were your overall thoughts on this episode?

[00:04:21] My overall thought is Judge Sims.

[00:04:24] Judge Sims.

[00:04:24] Wow.

[00:04:25] I did not see that coming.

[00:04:29] Yeah.

[00:04:30] And I feel that my Comic-Con preview prediction that one of Bernard and Sims are going to kill

[00:04:38] the other is looking more and more likely to come off.

[00:04:41] Although I'd like to modify it slightly.

[00:04:43] Okay.

[00:04:44] It may not necessarily be Robert Sims doing the killing.

[00:04:47] Oh.

[00:04:48] Mm.

[00:04:49] Yeah, fair.

[00:04:51] Yeah.

[00:04:52] Yeah.

[00:04:52] I think the scene at the beginning between Sims, the Sims, both of them and Bernard, it

[00:04:58] was maybe my favorite of the episode.

[00:04:59] I was messaging you like through that with my live thoughts.

[00:05:04] Judge Sims.

[00:05:05] Judge Sims.

[00:05:06] Judge Sims.

[00:05:08] We're going to talk through all of this one arc at a time.

[00:05:11] This week we're going to start with everything going on in Silo 18 and then switch back over

[00:05:17] to Juliet and Solo in Silo 17.

[00:05:19] So we'll be talking about events in a somewhat different order than they happen in the TV show.

[00:05:25] All right.

[00:05:26] Ready to begin?

[00:05:27] Yeah, let's do it.

[00:05:29] Your regularly scheduled breakdown will begin in three, two, one.

[00:05:36] All right.

[00:05:37] So we pick up with the great escape or the descent, if you will.

[00:05:40] Um, so picking right up where we left them last week and Knox played by Shay McRae, Shirley,

[00:05:45] Remini Milner, Walker, Harriet Walter, and McClain, Claire Perkins are running for their

[00:05:50] lives after Knox and Shirley were framed for killing judge Meadows.

[00:05:53] Carla's not exactly an athlete and they have to stop and hide, but luckily they have just

[00:05:59] enough of a head start to make it to Porter dispatch and take refuge there before they

[00:06:03] are noticed.

[00:06:04] There head of supply.

[00:06:06] Carla uses a connection with Calvin played by John Chu, who seems to be higher up in the

[00:06:11] Porter rung of authority himself.

[00:06:13] She tries to negotiate safe passage back to the down deep.

[00:06:16] They eventually agree on a price of a case of before times bourbon, a multi-tool they claim

[00:06:22] belonged to Juliet's because Calvin wants to sell it and two dozen refrigeration coils.

[00:06:28] But then the only means of transportation he offers in return is to be smuggled down to the lower mills

[00:06:33] and grain bins.

[00:06:34] And when they point out that Knox wouldn't fit, Calvin tells them to take it or leave it.

[00:06:40] Carla asks about a descender rig, a powered winch and cable system that she knows the

[00:06:45] porters had gotten a special dispensation to use, but Calvin plays dumb before saying,

[00:06:50] Porters have the exclusive rights to move all silo goods.

[00:06:54] People see something like that.

[00:06:55] They start getting other ideas.

[00:06:56] Just then Knox barges in to say they've got to go.

[00:07:00] It turns out Calvin's already called their location in intending to help Carla and Martha,

[00:07:04] but turn the other two in to collect the bounty that is only on their heads.

[00:07:09] These are obviously not acceptable terms for the group, and they decide to make a run for it instead.

[00:07:15] So Luke, where are you putting Calvin on the Simsnard scale?

[00:07:19] Oh, if if Juliet is a one and a Simsnard are a ten, he's about an eight.

[00:07:24] Yeah, he's up there.

[00:07:26] He's up there.

[00:07:27] He's up there.

[00:07:27] It's so weird how like the different recordings of the different podcast projects kind of all bleed into one.

[00:07:33] Cause I was, we're obviously, we are doing the prep for our holiday special.

[00:07:39] A Christmas carol.

[00:07:41] Looking at a Christmas carol.

[00:07:42] And that scene, the whole scene with the porters reminded me of the scene in the Christmas carol where Scrooge is watching his future and the porn brokers.

[00:07:54] With, yeah, with the go, with the ghost of Christmas yet to come.

[00:07:57] Right.

[00:07:57] That Calvin's trying to sell Juliet stuff.

[00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:01] Yeah.

[00:08:01] Yeah.

[00:08:03] Well, except she does have stuff, people to protect her stuff because that was not her multi-tool.

[00:08:07] That's true.

[00:08:08] Um, I did think it was interesting because we've talked before about how there are no elevators in the silo, except there kind of are now.

[00:08:18] We find out sort of.

[00:08:21] Right.

[00:08:21] They got a special dispensation apparently for it, but then they're like, no, shut that down.

[00:08:26] Which is by the way, very fitting with, with the book porters.

[00:08:29] Not that like that particular rig existed, but the, uh, uh, porters shutting down something that's, you know, taking away.

[00:08:38] They don't want to lose their jobs basically.

[00:08:40] And, um, that is definitely something that comes up.

[00:08:44] So it is good to see that happening here, but it does that make me ask the question.

[00:08:48] Like, do we hold back progress because we don't want to be replaced?

[00:08:53] And I say that as someone who has currently been struggling about how, um, I'm being replaced by AI.

[00:09:00] Not as well.

[00:09:01] We all know that, but AI is much cheaper.

[00:09:04] Um, I, I mean, I think that AI on the other hand also shows that we are way too quick to place too much faith in new advances.

[00:09:13] So I guess we need to find a happy medium.

[00:09:15] I don't know.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:17] Like we're always looking for something that will do a job quicker, cheaper, not necessarily better.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:23] Um, yeah.

[00:09:24] But by the way, I think, I think I've found my ideal job in the silo.

[00:09:29] I think I want to be a porter.

[00:09:31] Yeah.

[00:09:32] It seems like a good one, right?

[00:09:33] Yeah.

[00:09:35] Yeah.

[00:09:36] I mean, it's also like free exercise, like no gym membership needed, you know?

[00:09:40] Yeah.

[00:09:40] You get to meet a lot.

[00:09:41] You get to meet a lot of people, which was travel.

[00:09:44] I love don't.

[00:09:45] Yeah.

[00:09:45] You travel every day.

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:49] Yeah.

[00:09:49] No, I agree.

[00:09:50] And by the way, the multi tools thing, that's also a thing from the book.

[00:09:53] Um, and yeah, Martha was all too happy to pull a fast one on Calvin by giving her his hers

[00:09:59] because yeah, she, she's like, it's mine.

[00:10:02] I have no idea where hers is.

[00:10:04] Um, and obviously Juliet is going to turn up on Bernard's desk later, but I was like,

[00:10:09] yeah, Martha's like, fuck that guy.

[00:10:11] And wanting to sell Jules's stuff.

[00:10:14] I mean, also a multi tool is a multi tool is a multi tool.

[00:10:18] That's kind of right.

[00:10:19] Well, but you can see that Martha's looks a bit beat, beaten up and Jules is, um, Bernard's

[00:10:26] playing with Jules's later.

[00:10:27] And it's like really supple and like, and that is a point in the books actually when,

[00:10:33] uh, after, when they're going through a box of Jules's stuff, we'll talk about that

[00:10:36] more later.

[00:10:36] Her multi tool is in especially good shape because that's like a point of pride for her.

[00:10:41] Okay.

[00:10:42] Hmm.

[00:10:44] So speaking of Bernard, we've got, yeah, this Bernard versus Sims, um, coming to a head

[00:10:50] this scene that we referenced, uh, Camille Sims played by Alexandria Riley is worried that

[00:10:55] Bernard tin Robbins knows that it was her husband, Robert common behind calling for judge

[00:11:01] Meadows is impeachment.

[00:11:02] A move that quote unquote forced Bernard to kill the woman who is probably the love of his

[00:11:08] life.

[00:11:09] And Camille says to Robert, there's no way to argue.

[00:11:12] It wasn't you like, duh.

[00:11:15] Like, yeah.

[00:11:18] That horse has bolted.

[00:11:19] That horse has left the stable.

[00:11:21] Yeah.

[00:11:22] Yeah.

[00:11:23] I mean, so Robert points out, he doesn't know the name of my listeners, but he knows

[00:11:27] the hallmarks.

[00:11:28] I wonder what the hallmarks are like that.

[00:11:30] Robert always is does things in a certain aggressive way or.

[00:11:33] Yeah, probably.

[00:11:35] Hmm.

[00:11:35] Hmm.

[00:11:37] So then the couple's young son, Anthony played by Oscar Coleman calls out that there's a man

[00:11:42] in the kitchen.

[00:11:42] It's Bernard ominously making himself a coffee.

[00:11:45] Um, Bernard is clearly upset in his quietly menacing way.

[00:11:50] And Camille takes over making the coffee, excusing Bernard, who says he's supposed to be good

[00:11:56] with machines by saying, no, this machine is finicky.

[00:11:58] And, uh, Bernard says, I don't speak about Mary John's often, but she always made her own coffee.

[00:12:06] And yes, a woman of taste.

[00:12:07] Thank you for mentioning Mary John's.

[00:12:09] Yes.

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:11] I do.

[00:12:11] I do feel like her and moms and Holston have been kind of memory.

[00:12:16] And Alison.

[00:12:17] Yeah.

[00:12:17] And Alison.

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:20] Um, Bernard though, he's got to have like an increasing pile of these deaths weighing

[00:12:25] on his conscious.

[00:12:26] Yeah.

[00:12:27] And actually I think, I think Tim Robbins and his performance does kind of get that across

[00:12:32] that he's, he's struggling particularly with having killed Mary Meadows, but I think it

[00:12:38] is a cumulative thing as well.

[00:12:42] Yeah.

[00:12:43] I think he, I think he does not respect Sims as much as he respects respected Meadows or

[00:12:50] John's.

[00:12:51] Oh no, no, absolutely not.

[00:12:54] Sims is a, Sims is a tool.

[00:12:56] Sims is a, you know, he's very good at cracking heads and chasing things down, but he's not.

[00:13:03] But Bernard doesn't write his intelligence or, or is, um, or a sense of loyalty.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:12] Yeah.

[00:13:13] And we'll see you with this episode with Amundsen coming up.

[00:13:15] I think he's testing exactly how much does he need Sims?

[00:13:20] Yeah.

[00:13:21] Yeah.

[00:13:22] So Bernard says, John said doing the ordinary tasks of the everyday people of the silo helped

[00:13:28] her to feel connected to him, which is such an elitist fucking thing to say, but it does

[00:13:33] remind us, you know, the, even when we like the elite, like, um, John's, they are disconnected

[00:13:41] from the rest of the silo.

[00:13:43] Yeah.

[00:13:44] And then I'm thinking of like, so they don't make their own coffee.

[00:13:47] So it's because like admins are modern day servants.

[00:13:50] Pretty much.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:52] Apparently.

[00:13:55] And, uh, Bernard points out something important.

[00:13:57] He says, this job requires me to have a different perspective than anybody.

[00:14:01] And I think that is true, but also I think he relishes that.

[00:14:06] And that's kind of why I always suspected like in the book, you know, he doesn't have

[00:14:10] a side, um, a shadow at this point.

[00:14:13] And I'm, I'm like, well, I think he just doesn't want to share that power and knowledge.

[00:14:18] He likes being the man behind the curtain.

[00:14:20] Mm hmm.

[00:14:21] The wizard of ours.

[00:14:22] Yeah.

[00:14:24] Uh, Bernard turns his attention to Camille asking her about her past working in judicial

[00:14:29] with her husband and whether her husband tells her the ins and outs of his job.

[00:14:34] Now she lies and says that sort of thing doesn't interest her.

[00:14:39] Like, yeah.

[00:14:40] And by the way, Bernard is not buying that for one second.

[00:14:44] No, no.

[00:14:45] Are you worried for Camille?

[00:14:47] I am worried for the whole Sims family writ large.

[00:14:52] Um, but Anthony, yeah.

[00:14:54] Poor Anthony.

[00:14:55] I think there's a, I'm sort of worried for them, but I rate this sort of chances at 50 50.

[00:15:01] Cause I could easily see, um, I could easily see this confrontation going the other way.

[00:15:07] And Bernard, you know, having a nasty accident, having a nasty fall over the banister.

[00:15:11] Uh huh.

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] I like the, how Camille says to she, you know, she's, she's a gaslighter too.

[00:15:19] And she says to Bernard, like, I used to work for him as he likes to remind me.

[00:15:23] I have my job and I T and I have my son.

[00:15:27] The pact says mothers are a vessel to deliver our children into the world.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:35] Patriarchy.

[00:15:37] Yeah.

[00:15:37] Yeah.

[00:15:38] The pact sounded a little bit sexist there.

[00:15:40] But on the other hand, you know, as far as the world building.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:45] And on the other hand, as far as the people that, um, read the pact are concerned, they

[00:15:49] are like the last 10,000 people in existence.

[00:15:53] So, you know, like issues of population and reading are going to be important.

[00:15:59] But if it were that important, maybe they would stop like faking women out about getting

[00:16:04] pregnant.

[00:16:05] That's true.

[00:16:06] Yeah.

[00:16:06] And one thing Abby and I have been tracking is they are actually, they are slightly over

[00:16:11] 10,000.

[00:16:11] We saw population count somewhere and it was like 10,116 or something.

[00:16:16] So.

[00:16:16] Okay.

[00:16:17] That's interesting.

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:18] So I was wondering if that was why they would, um, you know, how they would have women win

[00:16:25] the lottery who they didn't want to actually get pregnant.

[00:16:27] Cause they can only have X number of babies per year.

[00:16:31] Mm hmm.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:33] Do you, so they say that this, the family reads the pact together every night.

[00:16:38] Do you think that that's true?

[00:16:41] Mm hmm.

[00:16:42] If you'd asked me that in season one, I would have said yes.

[00:16:46] Now I'm sort of leaning towards no.

[00:16:49] Do you think that's true for the billings?

[00:16:54] Um, it was certainly true in season one.

[00:16:58] I'm guessing the buildings hasn't read the pact.

[00:17:00] Uh, lately.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] I think you're right.

[00:17:03] And I also think like billings, he probably, he got the, it's so deeply carved into his

[00:17:09] brain when he was a teenager for the, with those pact competitions.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:13] He doesn't need to read it actively.

[00:17:15] He just revisits.

[00:17:16] He, he knows it.

[00:17:17] Yeah.

[00:17:17] He can quote it.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:19] And I'm feeling like Kathleen, she, um, she respects the pact, but she's like, ah, I'm

[00:17:24] not like all that into it.

[00:17:25] Just as long as it's keeping me safe.

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:28] Yeah.

[00:17:29] Yeah.

[00:17:29] Well, I don't know the Sims family.

[00:17:33] I could see it being like a strict, like you want to be read to in bed, son.

[00:17:36] Here comes the pact.

[00:17:38] Pact.

[00:17:38] Yeah.

[00:17:40] Yeah.

[00:17:41] I think Anthony, if he lives that long might enter those pact reading competition.

[00:17:45] Those pacts.

[00:17:46] Yeah.

[00:17:47] Uh, memorizing competitions.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:49] Well, it'd be interesting to see what, if something does happen to his parents, what would that turn

[00:17:55] Anthony into?

[00:17:57] That's, that's a very good point.

[00:17:59] Hmm.

[00:18:00] So Bernard sends Camille out of the room to get a copy of the pot packed ostensibly so that

[00:18:06] he can confront Robert alone.

[00:18:08] And he tells him, he made him do something he didn't want to do.

[00:18:12] And as such, Robert is being removed from his position as head of judicial security and

[00:18:18] is officially out of contention for being Bernard shadow, but he's being promoted kind

[00:18:25] of to judge.

[00:18:26] He's sworn in on the spot.

[00:18:29] Kicked upstairs.

[00:18:30] Kick.

[00:18:31] Yeah.

[00:18:31] Kicked upstairs.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:34] So I guess the idea is that he has less power, that he's more controlled.

[00:18:41] Um, he doesn't have the access.

[00:18:44] He's cut off.

[00:18:45] We see throughout this episode from the watchers.

[00:18:47] So I think that's the idea is that like, because they were doing dirty work for him.

[00:18:51] Yeah.

[00:18:52] And you could see, you could see Sims' frustration build throughout the rest of the episode.

[00:18:57] Right.

[00:18:58] Right.

[00:18:59] Because he was like having them at one point protect his own family and having them like

[00:19:04] spread rumors on his behalf.

[00:19:05] And yeah.

[00:19:07] So like when he turns up at the judge's office and he meets his new PA and she's going through

[00:19:12] all the rigmarole about like making decisions is like, I was in judicial for a period of

[00:19:18] year.

[00:19:19] Yeah.

[00:19:20] I know how this really works.

[00:19:22] Mm hmm.

[00:19:23] I know.

[00:19:24] I know.

[00:19:24] I know what I know when I've been shunted off to one side.

[00:19:27] Right.

[00:19:28] Yep.

[00:19:30] So by the way, Camille, she pops right back in as soon as she hears the words, you will

[00:19:34] not be my shadow so much for pretending she doesn't care about hubby's work.

[00:19:38] Yeah.

[00:19:41] Um, and Bernard says to him, you're too valuable to sideline.

[00:19:45] Why do you think Robert is valuable to Bernard?

[00:19:49] Just because he's, I mean, he's a goon.

[00:19:52] Sure.

[00:19:52] But there are more.

[00:19:53] He knows a lot.

[00:19:54] You know, he knows, he knows literally where the bodies are buried.

[00:19:57] I mean, but he could just get rid of him too, but maybe that's too much.

[00:20:02] Yeah.

[00:20:02] There are too many bodies at the moment.

[00:20:04] You've had a mayor die.

[00:20:06] You've had a judge die.

[00:20:07] You've had two sheriffs die.

[00:20:09] I mean, wasn't it too many bodies before sending Juliet out?

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:16] But I don't think you want to create more bodies at this point if you can possibly help

[00:20:20] it.

[00:20:21] Okay.

[00:20:21] Okay.

[00:20:22] All right.

[00:20:22] I have a new game.

[00:20:24] It's murder buddy cop conspirator.

[00:20:26] So I'm going to give you three names and you're going to say which you would murder,

[00:20:29] which you want to be in a buddy cop comedy with, and which would be your secret conspirator

[00:20:34] mastermind.

[00:20:35] Okay.

[00:20:35] Okay.

[00:20:36] So the three names are Robert, Camille, Bernard, murder, buddy cop, conspirator.

[00:20:42] Okay.

[00:20:42] I am going conspirator Bernard because he's good at it.

[00:20:48] Hmm.

[00:20:49] Um, I am going buddy cop, uh, Sims cause I could do with a bit of muscle.

[00:20:55] Okay.

[00:20:55] In my buddy cop comedy.

[00:20:56] I'm, I'm really not one for, I'm not really not one for the physical stuff.

[00:21:00] Hmm.

[00:21:00] Um, and I'm going murder Camille cause I just don't trust her as far as I could throw her.

[00:21:06] Okay.

[00:21:06] Okay.

[00:21:07] Um, I'm going to go ahead and murder Bernard.

[00:21:09] I'm, I would, I think it would be, I think Camille's very smart and I want her to be my

[00:21:14] conspirator and I trust her as much as I trust Bernard.

[00:21:17] I don't trust either of them, but I think I would have more fun with her.

[00:21:20] And yeah, I think that Sims Robert would be, um, he would, yeah, for, for similar reasons,

[00:21:25] he could be the muscle, but also he's, he's funny at times, you know?

[00:21:29] Yeah.

[00:21:29] He's got a sense of humor.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:32] All right.

[00:21:33] So Bernard is meanwhile hunting the fugitives with a full force of the janitor's closet surveillance

[00:21:38] team now overseen by new head of judicial security, Rick Amundson played by Christian

[00:21:45] Ochoa.

[00:21:46] Amundson has sent a team of Raiders undercover to fire up the mobs in the mids.

[00:21:50] And he's put a bounty of 1000 credits on each on Knox and Shirley's heads.

[00:21:56] And this is the bounty that Calvin tried to cash in on.

[00:22:00] Bernard instructs Amundson to also have judicial erect a barricade at one third at level one

[00:22:06] 30.

[00:22:07] And then Diego Aki Kotabi breaks in to tell them he got that tip from Calvin on their location

[00:22:13] level 70.

[00:22:15] So Diego obvious is back.

[00:22:18] Um, I guess he's had like a little memory drug touch up though.

[00:22:23] Yeah.

[00:22:23] Like I wanted to see a little scene, uh, of like all the camera operators and the janitor's

[00:22:30] closet going about three or four days ago.

[00:22:34] It was like this whole day.

[00:22:36] I can't quite remember.

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:40] What were we drinking?

[00:22:42] Was there some kind of a party?

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:44] Big party, big party.

[00:22:46] Don't worry about it.

[00:22:47] Also.

[00:22:48] I love like Amundson going, I've deployed my Raiders and Bernard going for the avoidance

[00:22:53] of doubt.

[00:22:53] They are in no sense.

[00:22:56] Your Raiders.

[00:22:57] They are in no sense your people.

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:00] That was brutal.

[00:23:02] Yeah.

[00:23:03] So, um, two things.

[00:23:05] First of all, Amundson, we, he was around last season.

[00:23:08] This is the same guy who handed Sims a stapler when he was looking for a hard drive.

[00:23:12] So obviously my confidence in his abilities is peak very high.

[00:23:17] Yes.

[00:23:19] But also I noticed Diego obvious, but even before he popped up to say like, Oh, I found

[00:23:24] him.

[00:23:25] He was listening in on their conversation.

[00:23:26] So I'm wondering if he has some suspicions in there.

[00:23:32] Yeah, possibly.

[00:23:34] Possibly.

[00:23:35] I mean, maybe that maybe they're not medicated.

[00:23:38] Maybe just the threat of being sent to the mines as just sort of, you know, yeah, I don't

[00:23:44] want to know this.

[00:23:45] You tell me I don't want to know this.

[00:23:47] That's why.

[00:23:49] Yeah.

[00:23:50] I get the sense a thousand credits.

[00:23:52] That's a lot for them.

[00:23:54] I think like Meadows for comparison and episode two, she gave everyone five credits

[00:24:01] to celebrate a holiday.

[00:24:03] So that would just be like a little bonus, but a thousand in comparison.

[00:24:07] That's a lot.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] Two thousand for both.

[00:24:10] That's probably enough for like a new apartment or, you know, to move it to move into a nice

[00:24:15] little apartment in the midst.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:19] Mr. Robinson.

[00:24:20] They won't get by my mobs.

[00:24:22] Humor me.

[00:24:23] I worry.

[00:24:24] That's my job.

[00:24:25] Obviously they do get passed later.

[00:24:27] So, okay.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:28] But I just like for the avoidance of doubt, they are in no sense.

[00:24:32] Your people.

[00:24:33] Your people.

[00:24:34] I will overlook the phrase my people.

[00:24:36] Let me be very clear.

[00:24:39] It's like, yeah.

[00:24:40] Yeah.

[00:24:40] You want Sims job.

[00:24:42] You got to prove that you can, you got to prove that you can do it first.

[00:24:46] Well, okay.

[00:24:47] Two related questions.

[00:24:48] Do you think Bernard is missing Sims in this job?

[00:24:51] And how long do we think Amundsen is going to survive?

[00:24:55] Not a lot.

[00:24:56] Um, my answer to the second question is not long because like you say, he's not, he's

[00:25:03] not Sims however much he wants to be.

[00:25:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:07] And like all he is doing here is like mechanically following a plan that Sims came up with.

[00:25:14] Yeah.

[00:25:16] Um, I don't think he is.

[00:25:18] I don't think Bernard is missing Sims.

[00:25:21] I think Bernard is just like had his nerves stretched to the point where he has run out

[00:25:27] of Fs to give.

[00:25:28] Um, at this point, it's just like, you know, my, you know, the love of my life is dead.

[00:25:35] Um, I've got this increasing trail of corpses behind me and like nobody understands the pressure

[00:25:44] I'm under.

[00:25:45] Um, and he's right.

[00:25:47] Nobody does understand the pressure he's under.

[00:25:50] I mean, yeah, he's right.

[00:25:53] But I do feel like he's probably, you know, Sims understood the job better.

[00:25:59] Sims knew the lines better, even though he was secretly crossing them.

[00:26:03] Um, so I understand why he felt like he had to remove him and couldn't trust him anymore.

[00:26:07] But now he has to like train someone from scratch and Amundsen just doesn't strike me as hugely

[00:26:14] bright.

[00:26:14] Although he does a better job this episode than I would have hoped based on the whole state

[00:26:18] stapler incident.

[00:26:20] That's true.

[00:26:21] Yeah.

[00:26:21] Hmm.

[00:26:22] Um, okay.

[00:26:24] Well, this is a good spot to take a quick pause.

[00:26:26] And when we come back, we're going to talk about daddy, Dr. Nichols and the staircase triage

[00:26:31] be right back.

[00:26:35] Okay.

[00:26:37] Staircase triage near the top of the silo.

[00:26:39] So Dr. Daddy Nichols, a play by Ian Glenn is treating injury sustained in the murder curious

[00:26:46] flash mob.

[00:26:48] I took that phrasing from you.

[00:26:50] Paul's wife, Kathleen Billings played by Caitlin's Oz is also volunteering her time to distract

[00:26:55] herself from worrying about her husband being down in the so very scary to her mechanical

[00:27:00] land.

[00:27:00] She's handing out herbal remedies and popping joints back into their sockets with a baby strapped

[00:27:06] to her chest like a badass.

[00:27:08] So who's got the better bedside manner, Dr. Nichols or nurse Kathleen?

[00:27:13] They both got very good bedside manner.

[00:27:16] And by the way, when she's, when she's talking about, um, cause the herbs she's handing out

[00:27:20] are cloves and actually, yeah, you do use cloves like that in medicine actually.

[00:27:28] Yeah.

[00:27:29] So they, they, their active ingredient is called eugenol, which is a natural, um, anesthetic

[00:27:34] and it's got anti-inflammatory properties as well.

[00:27:38] And it's been used especially to treat toothaches for centuries, but you can like massage it into

[00:27:44] joints or something.

[00:27:44] You just want to dilute it because it can, you know, it's, it's irritating.

[00:27:48] Um, so she said it was diluted with something that smells nice.

[00:27:52] So probably some like almond or floral or oil of some sorts.

[00:27:56] Yeah.

[00:27:57] Um, and she knows this because her mother was an herbalist and apparently her father was

[00:28:01] a drunk who lost a lot of fights.

[00:28:04] So it needed a lot of patching up apparently.

[00:28:07] I think that says something quite interesting about, uh, Kathleen Billings and why her and

[00:28:13] Paul have ended up together because like Paul Billings is the exact opposite of

[00:28:18] that, you know, he's a very kind, caring, but perhaps a little bit boring guy.

[00:28:27] But she also gets to take care of him.

[00:28:29] He's very dependable.

[00:28:29] Yeah.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:32] Yeah.

[00:28:32] I think she, she likes that she, you know, she gets to give him the ginger and worry and

[00:28:37] fuss about him and.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:40] Yeah.

[00:28:40] But yeah, I, I, yeah, it could be a reaction to like, I do not want that for myself for

[00:28:45] my child.

[00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:47] What I experienced with.

[00:28:49] So I think that, I think that tells us quite a bit about the Billings is.

[00:28:52] Mm hmm.

[00:28:53] For sure.

[00:28:53] Yeah.

[00:28:54] These, these throwaway lines that unlock a lot.

[00:28:56] Yeah.

[00:28:56] Yeah.

[00:28:58] Interesting duo in general.

[00:28:59] Um, Peter and Kathleen.

[00:29:01] I think it's, it's, I like how they, we were just recording the feedback episode and

[00:29:07] I like someone was talking about how they link characters and, and I like how they do this.

[00:29:12] Like this is a, their scene partners are both busy elsewhere, you know?

[00:29:16] Yeah.

[00:29:17] Give them a new connection that makes sense, you know, that they would be in both interested

[00:29:23] in caretaking and yeah, that can add an another interesting dynamic.

[00:29:29] Yeah, it does.

[00:29:31] Yeah.

[00:29:32] But Pete and Kathleen's conversation is interrupted by some Raiders who asked Pete to come with

[00:29:38] them.

[00:29:38] He's taken to see Bernard who gives him Juliet's belongings, her watch, her multi tool, which

[00:29:44] is in much better shape than Martha's and her badge.

[00:29:47] Bernard says that normally such items will be put back into circulation, but he's afraid

[00:29:52] Juliet's stuff would be hero worshiped.

[00:29:54] And he wants to prevent more moves like the one Calvin was trying to make with wanting

[00:29:58] to sell her multi tool and also prevent violence because her things would be coveted and fought

[00:30:03] over.

[00:30:03] But like, okay, first of all, you would just put them back into circulation before even

[00:30:08] offering them to the family first.

[00:30:10] Come on.

[00:30:11] Regardless.

[00:30:11] But I mean, this is, this is the silo, you know, materialism premium, you know, about

[00:30:19] these kinds of things.

[00:30:19] Hmm.

[00:30:21] Hmm.

[00:30:22] Um, so by the way, the jewel Juliet's belongings, that is a thing from the book.

[00:30:28] I'm not going to read you any of that because there are spoilers there that are, they still

[00:30:33] are not, they're holding back on this one part of the storyline, but let's just say that

[00:30:39] there after she goes out, there is a, uh, box of her belongings.

[00:30:44] And what's in that box is expired vacation and meal vouchers, her ID, her multi tool, a ring, the

[00:30:53] watch, some coins, you know, trip, chits or credits and the script for the play Romeo and

[00:30:59] Juliet.

[00:30:59] Um, and she's written actually a manual for the generator on the back of the pages.

[00:31:04] So she has definitely read Romeo and Juliet, at least a version of in, um, the books.

[00:31:11] There's actually a flashback where she and her parents went to go see the play as a kid when she was a kid.

[00:31:16] And that's where she got the script.

[00:31:17] Okay.

[00:31:18] But yeah, out of all those belongings, the watch, the ID and the multi tool never make it to Bernard.

[00:31:25] So I'm kind of a little bit offended that this version of Bernard got his grubby little fingers on it, on her stuff.

[00:31:32] That's fascinating that you talk about like chits for, um, vacation.

[00:31:37] I mean, what, what do you do on vacation in the sideline?

[00:31:40] I mean, yeah, you, you can sleep in and stuff, but like.

[00:31:44] Go to a, go to another level.

[00:31:47] And I guess visit somebody's farms or.

[00:31:50] Yeah.

[00:31:51] Go upstairs.

[00:31:53] Yeah.

[00:31:53] Um, yeah.

[00:31:55] Just wander around the parks, the farms taking a play.

[00:31:59] Clearly.

[00:32:00] Or even just sleep in, I guess.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:04] But of course, Juliet wouldn't use hers.

[00:32:07] Um, but yeah.

[00:32:09] So now that we know Patrick is alive, I wonder if this watch ever will get to him.

[00:32:14] I hope so.

[00:32:15] The guy deserves a break.

[00:32:17] Goodness.

[00:32:18] We'll talk about that when we get to it.

[00:32:20] But good grief.

[00:32:21] The man needs a break.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:23] And just, um, in case anyone has any questions about the badge because Juliet dropped one outside

[00:32:28] with Holston.

[00:32:29] The one she dropped outside was Holston's badge.

[00:32:32] The one he carved truth into the back of.

[00:32:35] And this is a different badge because apparently they issue a new badge for every new sheriff.

[00:32:40] So I guess, I guess it's a good thing.

[00:32:43] I guess it's a good thing.

[00:32:43] They have those miners mining metals.

[00:32:46] If they're just like handing out.

[00:32:48] I, it seems like a badge is a reusable thing, but fine, whatever.

[00:32:51] Yeah.

[00:32:53] All right.

[00:32:53] So, of course, this being Bernard, uh, he wants something.

[00:32:59] He tells Pete that his spirit of service tending to the wounded gives Bernard hope.

[00:33:04] And Bernard wants Dr.

[00:33:06] And Bernard wants Dr.

[00:33:06] Nichols to play figurehead for him and speak out as a symbol of Juliet and help restore order.

[00:33:12] But it's no more Mr. Nice, Dr.

[00:33:15] Daddy Nichols time.

[00:33:16] And he's like, what will you do to me if I don't?

[00:33:20] I've got nothing left to lose and zero fucks left to give.

[00:33:23] And he says he wasn't tending to the wounded out of duty to the silo.

[00:33:28] It was for himself.

[00:33:29] He needs to, as he puts it, reclaim some professional integrity after years of going along with commands

[00:33:36] like the code orange, where he had to gaslight women into thinking they could get pregnant while

[00:33:41] preventing that from happening.

[00:33:42] He tells Bernard, he can't control what Juliet means to people, to him or anyone else.

[00:33:48] And he takes Juliet's belongings and goes mic drop.

[00:33:52] Yeah.

[00:33:53] I didn't.

[00:33:54] I don't know about you, but I wanted to stand up and cheer during the scene.

[00:33:57] It's like, well done, Pete.

[00:33:59] Well done.

[00:34:01] He's finding himself for sure.

[00:34:03] He's inspired by his daughter's bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo.

[00:34:09] I don't know.

[00:34:10] Yeah.

[00:34:11] But yeah, I mean, he points out he really did lose his entire family one at a time.

[00:34:17] And yeah, he, he blames the silo for that and for the loss of his professional integrity.

[00:34:21] And he's not wrong about any of it.

[00:34:24] But I was rather surprised that Bernard didn't come back with, I could send you to the mines.

[00:34:29] That seems to be the solution to everything.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:32] I mean, I guess that would be, but he may be still wants to convince him to be on his

[00:34:37] side.

[00:34:37] And that would look so bad to people if Juliet's dad went to the mines.

[00:34:41] It would.

[00:34:42] It would.

[00:34:43] I do.

[00:34:44] Are you still on Dr. Nichols death watch?

[00:34:48] No, you know what?

[00:34:50] I'm not like, he shouldn't be alive now, but he is.

[00:34:53] So maybe he's going to keep going.

[00:34:56] It's the doctor who keeps on ticking.

[00:34:58] Exactly.

[00:35:00] All right.

[00:35:01] So switching over to some new job woes, Camille is obviously none too happy about the change

[00:35:07] in her husband's professional prospects.

[00:35:09] And she asks Rob about Bernard's plan.

[00:35:11] And Rob explains that Bernard believes that if the mob destroys the people blamed for the

[00:35:16] judge's death, it will be like a reset for him, for Bernard.

[00:35:20] That is.

[00:35:21] So do you think if the mob destroys the people blamed for the judge's death, does that reset

[00:35:28] the silo?

[00:35:29] Well, I mean, it means that people aren't thinking about Juliet and it means people aren't thinking

[00:35:35] about going outside.

[00:35:37] Hmm.

[00:35:37] And you could spring it, you could, um, you could sort of hope that that kind of calms

[00:35:45] everything down.

[00:35:47] The problem is with that speech that Bernard gave about the new tape, um, back in episode

[00:35:53] two, like Knox is not going to be the only person like going, well, if you've got this

[00:36:01] new tape, why don't we send some people out to explore?

[00:36:03] Like it's just a logical, it's just a logical next step you would take.

[00:36:09] So even if you do succeed in repressing mechanical, it's only a matter of time before somebody else

[00:36:16] makes what to them would seem like a perfectly reasonable demand.

[00:36:20] Yeah.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:22] Yeah.

[00:36:23] I mean, I think that Bernard, he, there's a point in the, in the idea of like people

[00:36:30] bloodletting and, and, you know, that being cathartic and then like getting out this aggression

[00:36:35] and settling down and, you know, um, but I think that for Bernard, it's mostly like,

[00:36:42] that's what the book tells him to do.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:43] And I can guarantee that Meadows would not be on board with this plant.

[00:36:48] She'd be like, you dumb ass.

[00:36:50] Yeah.

[00:36:50] I really don't think Bernard is thinking beyond it's what the order says you should do.

[00:36:56] It's like going back to, um, episode four, I think.

[00:37:03] The episode, no episode three where Meadows goes, you know, it's like, it's like trying

[00:37:10] to imagine a color you've never seen.

[00:37:12] Like Bernard is simply incapable.

[00:37:16] Yeah.

[00:37:17] Of thinking outside of the parameters of the order.

[00:37:20] Yeah.

[00:37:21] Yeah.

[00:37:22] And like I say, I think that speech Bernard gave in episode two worked really well in

[00:37:28] the moment, but it's created all sorts of problems for him because if you've got the

[00:37:35] good tape, then people are going to want to use it.

[00:37:39] Right.

[00:37:40] Yeah.

[00:37:41] Yeah.

[00:37:42] Yeah.

[00:37:43] Um, I'm also, I mean, Camille is getting, uh, more and more chilling to me, to be honest.

[00:37:49] I have the feeling that Rob tells her everything, but obviously we're starting to see that she

[00:37:56] might not tell him everything and she might like in this scene, we're already seeing, she

[00:38:01] seems to be manipulating him.

[00:38:02] Like the way she's so nice about Amundsen.

[00:38:05] She's like, of course he was trained by the best, but he isn't the best.

[00:38:10] Kiss, kiss, kiss.

[00:38:11] It's all very lady Macbeth.

[00:38:14] Mm.

[00:38:14] Mm.

[00:38:15] Mm.

[00:38:15] Yeah.

[00:38:16] Make the most of the job, Robert.

[00:38:18] Um, so what do you think she wants him to do right now?

[00:38:23] I'm not, I'm not, I'm not entirely sure.

[00:38:26] Cause, um, like it's been explained to us in quite some detail that the judge is a purely

[00:38:33] nominal position.

[00:38:35] You know, they have no authority.

[00:38:38] Hmm.

[00:38:39] Um, and you know, some says later on the episode when she asked him how her first date went and

[00:38:46] she says, I signed where directed.

[00:38:47] And that seems to be all the judge can do.

[00:38:50] Right.

[00:38:51] Um, I mean, yeah, but it, uh, people at large, like the people in the know, know this, but

[00:39:01] the silo at large, they do think that the judge is a seat of power.

[00:39:05] So if Sims stepped out of line, then the ordinary people wouldn't think that there was anything

[00:39:13] wrong with that.

[00:39:13] They would think that that is his.

[00:39:15] Well, what I, what I was thinking is, um, when Camille kind of intercepts, uh, Knox and

[00:39:22] Shirley, I thought the whole point of that was we could bring in that she would bring them

[00:39:28] before the judge sentence.

[00:39:30] And that would be a way of putting him center stage, you know, by having like a big public

[00:39:36] trial of the people who killed judge Meadows.

[00:39:40] Right.

[00:39:41] Right.

[00:39:42] But then it's still, I mean, I feel like Sims, he doesn't want to do the judge stuff.

[00:39:46] He wants to do the Raider stuff.

[00:39:47] Yeah.

[00:39:48] He wants to be cracking heads and busting down doors.

[00:39:50] I mean, does, does Sims even have like a legal background?

[00:39:54] You know, does Sims know the pact well enough to, um, plausibly be a judge?

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:01] I mean, he says they read it every night, but, um, I think even if they do, it's like in one

[00:40:05] year and out the other.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:07] It's, it's more performative, you know?

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:10] Yeah.

[00:40:11] Um, yeah.

[00:40:13] You know, I just had a thought that, uh, for people who've watched the penguin Camille's

[00:40:18] relationship to Robert's kind of reminds me of, um, yeah, Francis, uh, Oz's mother's

[00:40:26] relationship with him.

[00:40:27] So just a thought.

[00:40:28] Okay.

[00:40:29] How happy though would like Kathleen be if Paul Billings were given the role, the judge

[00:40:36] role?

[00:40:36] It's just like a cushy desk job.

[00:40:38] Yeah, no, she, she would, she would be, she would be over the moon with that.

[00:40:42] She would, she would love that.

[00:40:43] High profile, low risk.

[00:40:45] Ah, everything.

[00:40:46] Yeah.

[00:40:47] And also you get, you get to be like the partner of the judge, you know, I bet you get

[00:40:51] invited to all the good, all the good, all the good social occasions in the sidelined.

[00:40:57] Yeah.

[00:40:59] So yeah.

[00:40:59] But as when Rob reports to his new judge job, he gets and gets his briefing from judge

[00:41:04] Meadows, former aide Sharon played by Taj Kandula.

[00:41:07] He's like, as you said, he's like, yeah, Mr. Judicial.

[00:41:10] I know all this shit.

[00:41:11] He's clearly not enjoying being sidelined.

[00:41:13] And then he knocks a file onto the floor.

[00:41:16] So it's like this subdued temper tantrum, just a little like momentary outburst.

[00:41:21] But you know how long until he really snaps.

[00:41:24] Also, I like the fact that the aide was telling him that the judges have an also pen, but they

[00:41:30] haven't had time to practice a signature yet.

[00:41:32] So would he mind actually signing stuff?

[00:41:35] He's like, yeah.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:40] And Sims is of course also mad at Amundsen.

[00:41:43] He who's gatekeeping the watchers room in the janitor's closet.

[00:41:46] So like we see Sims, he's pushing on this hidden button on a pipe and it doesn't seem

[00:41:50] to work.

[00:41:50] So I guess that used to unlock it.

[00:41:53] And Amundsen, I kind of feel a bit bad for the guy cause he's obviously caught in the

[00:41:59] middle.

[00:41:59] He's like, your honor judge.

[00:42:01] It's like, yeah, call me Rob.

[00:42:03] Like you have the last 10 years.

[00:42:05] It's like, I'm trying to figure this out.

[00:42:06] Just like you.

[00:42:08] Do you feel bad for Amundsen?

[00:42:10] No, he's a raider.

[00:42:12] He's a judicial raider.

[00:42:13] You don't feel bad.

[00:42:14] You know, a, a, a, a CAB or whatever it is.

[00:42:20] What is that?

[00:42:21] Um, all, uh, all cops are bastards or whatever.

[00:42:24] Oh, I get it.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:27] Um, well, I mean, I think, yay.

[00:42:30] Like Billings is a cop.

[00:42:31] That's true.

[00:42:32] That's true.

[00:42:34] And so is Hank.

[00:42:36] That's true.

[00:42:37] Yeah.

[00:42:38] Uh, so Sims tries the guilt card on Amundsen.

[00:42:42] He says, I was sitting at the desk of the woman I worked for, for the past 15 years.

[00:42:46] And I thought it was a good idea to see how the search for the people who murdered her

[00:42:50] is going.

[00:42:51] And it's like, Amundsen's got to know as part of his new job that like, this was a frame

[00:42:57] job, right?

[00:42:58] That.

[00:42:59] Yeah.

[00:42:59] You would think.

[00:43:01] It seems it's clearly happy about that.

[00:43:02] But then again, there is always the incident with the state.

[00:43:06] That's a point.

[00:43:10] Uh, Amundsen says, I'll make sure you have all of the relevant details in your desk in

[00:43:14] the morning.

[00:43:14] And he, then he like thinks twice about it and he's like, Oh, maybe that was too far.

[00:43:19] And he's like, Oh, the suspects are still on the stairs.

[00:43:21] We're using the plan you put in place.

[00:43:23] So yeah, I, I feel a little bit bad for Amundsen.

[00:43:26] And you don't want to be on Sims bad side and also trying to please Bernard at the same

[00:43:31] time.

[00:43:31] That's just, no, it's not a comfortable place to be.

[00:43:34] No.

[00:43:36] But meanwhile, Bernard has our stargazer, Lucas Kyle played by Avinash under watch in his office.

[00:43:42] And Lucas has now apparently spent one day in the mines enough that Bernard suspects

[00:43:46] he doesn't want to go back.

[00:43:48] He tells him his life expectancy in the mines is short and Meadows knew it as she knew it

[00:43:53] was meaningless when she reduced his sentence.

[00:43:56] And Bernard offers him an alternative.

[00:43:58] Pull as much data as possible from the hard drive disc Bernard destroyed last season.

[00:44:04] And yeah, Lucas's face is like, I just love his facial expressions about like, Oh man,

[00:44:11] I just, I know you're just messing with me.

[00:44:13] Like just get to the point, man.

[00:44:16] But it's also like, I will do anything you want.

[00:44:21] Yeah.

[00:44:22] I am not going back to the mines.

[00:44:23] Just tell me what I need to do and I will do it.

[00:44:26] Oh, some IT stuff.

[00:44:27] I can IT.

[00:44:29] Yeah.

[00:44:30] Um, do you think we're ever actually going to see the mines?

[00:44:33] See this, this is the thing.

[00:44:35] They've made it sound so awful that if we ever do, it's not going to be that it's going

[00:44:42] to go.

[00:44:43] It's not that bad.

[00:44:43] How could it ever possibly be terrible enough?

[00:44:47] Yeah.

[00:44:47] Hmm.

[00:44:49] Yeah.

[00:44:50] So, uh, apparently Meadows told Bernard about her conversation with Lucas at their last

[00:44:55] dinner party and Bernard's impressed that Lucas was able to synthesize, uh, disparate

[00:45:00] amounts of information and formulate a working model of the universe in his head.

[00:45:05] That's actually fairly accurate.

[00:45:07] And, um, I think there's like, he, he kind of puts him down.

[00:45:13] Well, it's, I feel like he negged him a little bit.

[00:45:15] He's like, you know, that there's other people who can do this better than you, but, um, but

[00:45:21] you will be the most motivated now.

[00:45:23] But I feel like he does have some special respect for him.

[00:45:27] Yes.

[00:45:28] And also like, um, you know, Lucas is in Bernard's power.

[00:45:34] Like if you start getting people from the IT bullpen to do that, you know, who knows how

[00:45:40] far, how far the information might spread.

[00:45:44] Whereas Lucas is, is in communicado.

[00:45:47] Yeah.

[00:45:48] I need to know what's up with Lucas's mother because he, she was a thing in the background

[00:45:53] in the books and he mentioned her last season and you know, that he was like very devoted

[00:45:57] to her and, you know, always had to go see her.

[00:45:59] Um, so where's she now when, well, he's, you know, in the mines or whatever.

[00:46:04] Like we can assume he's sleeping on Bernard's couch in that office, but is Bernard, Bernard

[00:46:09] presumably is having to smuggle food to him and like other stuff as well.

[00:46:16] So I wonder what, I wonder whether somebody in IT is going to go, why does Bernard keep

[00:46:21] bringing changes of clothes that aren't in his side?

[00:46:24] Well, I don't know if he's exactly hiding it because he had someone there guarding Lucas

[00:46:30] when he came in.

[00:46:31] That's true.

[00:46:31] So yeah, I don't know.

[00:46:34] Yeah.

[00:46:34] And so Bernard, he's decided maybe it was dumb to smash the hard drive and he says, I no longer

[00:46:39] have the luxury of ignorance.

[00:46:41] And that was actually reminding me of our conversation when you were saying, if you couldn't do anything,

[00:46:45] you'd rather just not know.

[00:46:46] So, and I feel like that's where Bernard was and now he's gotten to, well, I guess I have

[00:46:51] to do something.

[00:46:54] Really Bernard?

[00:46:55] Do you think it was a bad idea to smash a 200 year old hard drive without information on

[00:47:01] it?

[00:47:02] Yeah.

[00:47:03] Yeah.

[00:47:04] Yeah.

[00:47:04] So, but okay, but here's what I'm worried about.

[00:47:06] I predicted that Danny would be put in this job and now I'm starting to get really worried

[00:47:11] about Danny.

[00:47:12] So he's been mentioned directly at least twice this season, but not yet seen where, where

[00:47:18] is he?

[00:47:19] And what have they done to poor baby Dan?

[00:47:21] I think he's probably, you know, uh, lobotomized in that care facility with poor Gloria at this

[00:47:28] point as well.

[00:47:30] Uh, at this point, I think he's, he's either dead or on the medication.

[00:47:35] Um, so that was why, that was why Bernard couldn't use him.

[00:47:39] Hmm.

[00:47:40] I don't, I think he's not dead because they wouldn't like from a storytelling perspective,

[00:47:45] it would be dumb for them to keep saying his name if he's just dead.

[00:47:49] But I think he's more likely he's on the inverted commas medicine.

[00:47:54] So he's not much used to Bernard.

[00:47:56] He's kind of like Gloria wasn't a bit of a stupor.

[00:47:59] I don't know.

[00:48:00] I don't know because Bernard was like about both him and Patrick.

[00:48:03] He's like, they're not on the medicine yet.

[00:48:05] Right.

[00:48:05] Oh, good.

[00:48:06] And we know now why for Patrick, but I feel like there must've been a point with Danny,

[00:48:13] some plan, but, um, I just had a thought.

[00:48:19] Hmm.

[00:48:20] No, maybe not.

[00:48:22] Okay.

[00:48:22] What if, okay.

[00:48:23] No, well, I'll just say what if he like made Danny like a, like he's secretly, do you think

[00:48:32] he would want him as a shadow or something?

[00:48:33] If he's getting desperate.

[00:48:36] Danny's not a book character by the way.

[00:48:37] So this is not a spoiler.

[00:48:38] This is just maybe, maybe, I mean, he's got to pick somebody.

[00:48:42] Hmm.

[00:48:44] Cause like he can't the silo, you know where the silo is right now.

[00:48:49] He can't do everything by himself and somebody needs to know what he knows.

[00:48:54] Yeah.

[00:48:56] Yeah.

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:58] I wonder, but then, oh, that brings a whole new set of worries.

[00:49:01] Okay.

[00:49:01] I don't know.

[00:49:02] I don't know, but just where's Danny.

[00:49:03] I hope he better show up in episode six.

[00:49:05] Well, you got to see Lucas in the end.

[00:49:08] I got to see Lucas, but now I want Lucas's story to progress, but now we're starting.

[00:49:13] Okay.

[00:49:13] We're starting to, you know, yeah.

[00:49:16] His story starting to go places.

[00:49:17] Eventually some, at some point it may even get back on track with his book story.

[00:49:22] Maybe.

[00:49:24] Come on.

[00:49:25] Come on, Graham.

[00:49:26] Pull it out.

[00:49:28] Get it back on track.

[00:49:30] Yeah.

[00:49:31] All right.

[00:49:31] So later Lucas tells Bernard, he was able to savage, salvage a small amount of data by

[00:49:37] finding fragments that overlap with files in the regular IT database to fill in some of

[00:49:42] the missing data.

[00:49:43] He's found a map that looks like their silo map, but there are extra things, namely lines

[00:49:49] coming into the silo from outside connected to it and judicial and that mysterious tunnel

[00:49:55] at the bottom we saw on the hard drive map last season.

[00:49:59] So, okay.

[00:49:59] First of all, thoughts on the lines going into it and judicial.

[00:50:04] I like properly squeed at that because they are connected.

[00:50:08] These are tunnels connecting the silos.

[00:50:13] But there was only one tunnel.

[00:50:16] The other ones were just lines.

[00:50:18] I mean, my front one, my one thought was power lines.

[00:50:21] Cause we know, obviously we're going to talk about how the other silo has it has their own

[00:50:25] power as Solo says.

[00:50:27] Um, but in the other silo, we saw wires like being strung up along the ceilings to go to

[00:50:33] IT.

[00:50:34] No, like a makeshift thing.

[00:50:36] And this obviously in the silo doesn't have that.

[00:50:38] These look much too big.

[00:50:40] I think like the tunnel at the bottom is for like, it's for like construction equipment,

[00:50:46] but the ones going into judicial and IT, they look like corridors, like crosswalks to me.

[00:50:53] Hmm.

[00:50:54] Okay.

[00:50:55] Okay.

[00:50:55] I thought it was much smaller, something more like cables or pipes or something.

[00:50:59] Okay.

[00:51:00] But I don't know.

[00:51:01] Yeah.

[00:51:01] But that's interest.

[00:51:02] Very interesting and not in the book.

[00:51:04] So I genuinely don't know.

[00:51:05] Okay.

[00:51:06] Yeah.

[00:51:07] And they, they've got to answer obviously questions about that tunnel this season.

[00:51:10] Like just tell me what's in that tunnel.

[00:51:12] What's in the tunnel.

[00:51:13] That's also new.

[00:51:15] Um, yeah.

[00:51:18] Okay.

[00:51:18] So Bernard tells Lucas to keep working.

[00:51:20] His first fine though has earned him another 24 hours outside the mines.

[00:51:24] And this prompts Lucas to speak up again.

[00:51:26] He also found a folder that was uncorrupted full of department memos and a scan of a handwritten,

[00:51:33] written love letter from Salvador Quinn, who we learned last episode was the head of

[00:51:39] IT during the rebellion.

[00:51:40] And, uh, during the rebellion, 140 years ago, uh, it was a love letter to his wife, but Lucas

[00:51:46] said it gets weird.

[00:51:48] Bernard isn't surprised.

[00:51:50] Uh, Bernard says it goes into code and Lucas nods.

[00:51:52] So I'm guessing that decoding that is going to be Lucas's next job.

[00:51:57] Or do you think Bernard already knows?

[00:51:59] Like there's some secret head of.

[00:52:02] It code that Bernard knows.

[00:52:04] No, I think, I think Bernard is in the dark here, but I think knew he expected it would

[00:52:10] be coded.

[00:52:11] Yeah.

[00:52:12] Because, because that was what Meadows told him.

[00:52:15] Well, okay.

[00:52:16] I guess that's right.

[00:52:17] You're right.

[00:52:17] You're right.

[00:52:18] At the dinner party.

[00:52:19] Yeah.

[00:52:20] Okay.

[00:52:21] Okay.

[00:52:22] So yeah.

[00:52:23] You think that's Lucas's next job?

[00:52:25] Yeah.

[00:52:26] Well, whatever keeps him out of the mines.

[00:52:29] He's not made for that.

[00:52:30] But one day at a time.

[00:52:31] It's like one.

[00:52:32] It's like Bernard, you don't have to be a dick about it.

[00:52:35] Yeah.

[00:52:36] He did what you asked.

[00:52:38] Mm hmm.

[00:52:39] I guess what's he going to do with him?

[00:52:40] And you know, he's just going to keep him working as his, as his little like a closet

[00:52:46] I T boy.

[00:52:47] Yes.

[00:52:48] Do that.

[00:52:50] All right.

[00:52:51] So let's go downstairs to the down deep detectives.

[00:52:56] We've got a new buddy cop team, deputy Hank played by Billy Postlethwaite and Sheriff

[00:53:01] Paul played by Chinaza Uche.

[00:53:03] They are looking for Patrick Kennedy, Rick Gomez, after he disappeared from the morgue in

[00:53:08] last week's episode.

[00:53:09] They know he's been shot in the shoulder.

[00:53:11] So they start asking doctors if he's been to see them.

[00:53:14] They get a no from Dr. Phelan, the nearest doctor.

[00:53:17] And Hank points out that the doctors in the down deep tend to be the worst ones anyway.

[00:53:22] He says, maybe Kennedy knows Dr. Phelan's reputation.

[00:53:25] The best get assigned to the up top and we end up with what's left.

[00:53:29] Apart from me, that is.

[00:53:32] I think we need a new portmanteau here.

[00:53:34] We've already got Simsnard.

[00:53:36] I think this is Bill Anke.

[00:53:38] Bill Anke.

[00:53:39] Okay.

[00:53:39] Yeah.

[00:53:40] Our new deep down detective duo.

[00:53:42] Yeah.

[00:53:43] And if they don't get their own spit off series, I'm going to be disappointed.

[00:53:48] Okay.

[00:53:49] So new round of murder buddy cop conspirator.

[00:53:52] Hank, Paul, Patrick.

[00:53:55] Murder buddy cop conspirator.

[00:53:57] Hank is going to be the buddy cop.

[00:53:59] He's just, he's just really good at it.

[00:54:01] He's got like a, he's got like a real Columbo sort of shambling shuffling, but actually he's

[00:54:08] kind of, he's a lot smarter than he, than he, than he comes off.

[00:54:14] So he's going to be my buddy cop.

[00:54:17] Um, Patrick Kennedy is going to be the guy I kill because I just find him quite an irritating

[00:54:24] character at this point.

[00:54:27] Um, and that leaves, that kind of leaves Billings as a conspirator by default.

[00:54:33] Okay.

[00:54:34] Yeah.

[00:54:35] So, uh, this is a tough one.

[00:54:37] Um, I, I'm, I'm definitely going to have Paul as my buddy cop just because I think he's

[00:54:43] like a good partner.

[00:54:44] He'd just be a good partner to solve cases with, you know?

[00:54:47] Yeah.

[00:54:48] Um, but then I'm so torn between murdering conspirator cause I don't want to murder Hank,

[00:54:55] but I do think Patrick would be a bit better conspirator.

[00:54:58] Um, but I'm sorry, Patrick.

[00:55:00] I can't kill Hank.

[00:55:02] I can't kill Hank.

[00:55:04] Yeah.

[00:55:04] Now I like Hank is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters in the entire show.

[00:55:10] Yeah.

[00:55:11] Um, like the more you know about him, the more you, the more you like him.

[00:55:15] Mm hmm.

[00:55:16] Yeah.

[00:55:17] I hope we get some of his backstory too.

[00:55:18] Like what's his life like outside of this?

[00:55:21] Yeah.

[00:55:22] Yeah.

[00:55:22] And also like Billings is going to really interesting places.

[00:55:26] Although I do wish that he wouldn't mention the syndrome to every Tom, Dick and Harry

[00:55:32] runs into it.

[00:55:34] It's kind of annoying now.

[00:55:36] All right.

[00:55:37] Well, let's get into this.

[00:55:38] So Billings is barely listening to Hank because he just got a message from the new head of judicial

[00:55:44] security and it's Amundsen, not Sims.

[00:55:47] And he just found out Sims is the new judge and Meadows is dead.

[00:55:51] And Billings whole world is turned upside down right now.

[00:55:55] Worse.

[00:55:56] The suspects are the head of mechanical and his colleague friends of the man he is talking

[00:56:01] to right now.

[00:56:02] So now Hank is also shook and Paul decides this is a good time to continue his coming out

[00:56:08] tour.

[00:56:08] And he tells Hank, he has the syndrome.

[00:56:11] He knows he tells him Sims knows, and he made an allowance as the head of judicial security,

[00:56:16] but he's worried that might change with Sims is new position.

[00:56:21] So I have to point out that the audio description points out that the copy of the pact that we

[00:56:26] see Paul reading at this point is signed by Meadows.

[00:56:32] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:56:34] I didn't, I didn't recognize.

[00:56:35] I didn't realize that.

[00:56:36] So he's, he's mourning someone he respected and everything else is shaken up and upside

[00:56:41] down.

[00:56:42] Yeah.

[00:56:43] And his, his syndrome's definitely flaring up with it.

[00:56:47] It is.

[00:56:47] It is.

[00:56:48] Yeah.

[00:56:50] Um, Billings asks Hank if he thinks Knox and Shirley really did it.

[00:56:54] And Hank says things have gotten out of hand.

[00:56:57] And he points out that Shirley did stir up a mob to attack his, to attack his station just

[00:57:01] last episode.

[00:57:02] Um, he says they have no respect for silo order, but he still doesn't think there's

[00:57:07] any fucking chance they killed Meadows.

[00:57:10] So yeah.

[00:57:11] Yeah.

[00:57:12] Decent enough judge of character.

[00:57:14] Yeah.

[00:57:15] I like that because it's, it shows that Hank's not naive.

[00:57:19] Mm hmm.

[00:57:20] No, he knows who these people are and what they're capable of.

[00:57:24] And he's not looking at them through rose tinted glasses.

[00:57:27] Right.

[00:57:28] Right.

[00:57:29] All right.

[00:57:30] We got to do a Sims nerd scale check in on Shirley Knox and Hank.

[00:57:34] Where are they sitting?

[00:57:35] Okay.

[00:57:36] Uh, so I'm going to do the, all three of them separately.

[00:57:40] Okay.

[00:57:41] So Knox is a four.

[00:57:45] Remember Juliet being a one.

[00:57:47] And, um, so I would say Knox is a four.

[00:57:51] Uh, Shirley is a four as well.

[00:57:57] And Hank, I've still got Hank as a five.

[00:58:00] Really?

[00:58:01] You think he's okay.

[00:58:03] I, I mean, I'm putting Hank with on the Julie.

[00:58:06] I would even put him left of Juliet.

[00:58:09] Really?

[00:58:10] That's a, that's a bold call.

[00:58:12] Yeah.

[00:58:13] I mean, I just think Juliet is, uh, she means well.

[00:58:17] I think they all mean well, obviously.

[00:58:19] Um, but Hank is the most even tempered and the most, I think he, I don't know.

[00:58:26] I think, um, he tries harder.

[00:58:29] He's less, he's more earnest.

[00:58:32] The only reservation I have with Hank is he might be bullied.

[00:58:36] Like I'm not sure how strong of a character he is.

[00:58:40] I think that he would stand up to a bully, but I guess we have to, we have yet to see that

[00:58:45] really, we've yet to see Bernard breathing into his face, you know?

[00:58:49] Yeah.

[00:58:50] Yeah.

[00:58:51] All right.

[00:58:52] Well, at this point, Hank takes the syndrome news lightly and he changes the subject by telling

[00:58:58] him he might have a line on Patrick Kennedy.

[00:59:00] He intercepts a cafeteria worker named Francis played by Sakarisa Claxton in the deep down

[00:59:06] cafeteria.

[00:59:08] Francis has picked up a midnight meal to go, which he finds suspicious considering she worked

[00:59:13] the early shift to that day.

[00:59:15] Turns out her aunt was darling dead, Doris Patrick's dearly deceased wife.

[00:59:20] She was apparently also involved in the pill distribution ring that got the couple in trouble

[00:59:26] five years ago, though no one was able to prove that Francis was part of it.

[00:59:30] Hank says he knows Patrick is gravely injured and she should let them deliver the meal and

[00:59:36] get him medical help.

[00:59:37] Apparently she tells them where he is because next time we see them, they are going into the

[00:59:42] tunnel to the digger room and they discover the injured Patrick hanging out there.

[00:59:46] He's in bad shape, but he'll throw himself in the hole in the ground rather than let them

[00:59:51] take him in.

[00:59:52] Hank and Paul reassure him that they're on his side despite pointing guns at him because

[00:59:57] of the whole firebombing thing.

[00:59:58] And when Hank goes to get a med kit, Paul hands over the page.

[01:00:02] He took from that Georgia guidebook.

[01:00:04] He burned last season, letting Patrick in on a secret that could get Paul in big trouble.

[01:00:10] If it got out Patrick Morty's now tells Billings, if he can get him a doctor, not just quote

[01:00:16] unquote a deputy with a bandaid, he'll tell him everything.

[01:00:21] So first of all, like who doesn't know about this fricking tunnel to the digger room?

[01:00:26] Yeah.

[01:00:27] At this point, it's probably easier to name all the people that don't know about the

[01:00:31] tunnel.

[01:00:32] Basically anyone, I think like at the barricade, if you get through the barricade, they're like,

[01:00:36] by the way, there's a tunnel to the digger room at the bottom.

[01:00:38] Yeah.

[01:00:39] But basically everybody in mechanical seems to know this thing exists.

[01:00:44] Right.

[01:00:44] Right.

[01:00:45] Yeah.

[01:00:46] And we finally see the page that he tore out from the book.

[01:00:49] It was the Blue Ridge Mountains.

[01:00:51] Um, and Paul says he doesn't know why he kept this page.

[01:00:54] Why do you think he kept any page in that page in particular?

[01:00:58] I'm not sure why he kept any page in particular, but I think he kept our page just as evidence

[01:01:05] that it existed.

[01:01:06] Yeah.

[01:01:07] That the book was a, was real.

[01:01:10] I think of, um, you know, what was that last episode or the episode before where, um, Knox

[01:01:18] is asked if he goes outside, what does he want to see?

[01:01:21] And he's the distance and the mountains are, you know, that's this, this scale.

[01:01:26] Yeah.

[01:01:26] Mind blowing thing.

[01:01:28] Yeah.

[01:01:29] Yeah.

[01:01:30] I'm guessing that's why I guess he didn't see the ocean page.

[01:01:33] Cause that looked great.

[01:01:34] Yeah.

[01:01:36] Patrick says everything they told us is a lie.

[01:01:38] Like, yeah, I think Billings is starting to like, not along with that.

[01:01:43] Like not literally, but I, you know, inside he's nodding along with it.

[01:01:47] He's feeling that.

[01:01:48] And Patrick tells Billings, he met Sims.

[01:01:51] All right.

[01:01:52] When he was gagged and bagged for helping Juliet.

[01:01:54] So that's gotta also affect what Paul is thinking about all the up top people.

[01:02:00] His bosses.

[01:02:01] Yeah.

[01:02:03] Um, what doctor do you think that he can get for Patrick?

[01:02:07] Like Dr.

[01:02:08] Nichols might be interested in helping the guy who helped his daughter, but he's really

[01:02:12] far away.

[01:02:14] And there's an angry mob between them.

[01:02:16] Yeah.

[01:02:17] So it will have to be the doc in the down deep.

[01:02:19] Like, even if his record isn't exactly very good, I don't know who else they could find.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:26] Yeah.

[01:02:27] I don't know.

[01:02:27] I guess we'll find out next week.

[01:02:29] Yeah.

[01:02:30] All right.

[01:02:31] We're going to take a quick pause here.

[01:02:32] And then when we come back, we're going to pick back up with the group on the run.

[01:02:39] All right.

[01:02:39] Still on the run.

[01:02:40] The court at a fugitives decided to split up since the heat is on Knox and Shirley and

[01:02:45] Martha and Carla say they will just slow them down.

[01:02:47] The two older women sit down at a counter cafe, but Carla tells Martha to get out of there.

[01:02:53] Nobody above one 25 knows Martha because she hasn't left her workshop in 25 years as head

[01:02:59] of supply.

[01:03:00] Carla is easy to find, but Martha can slip past the crowds and they need her in the down deep.

[01:03:05] Martha kisses Carla and goes.

[01:03:08] So yeah, we're, we're obviously done with, uh, harping on the forgetting.

[01:03:12] Yeah.

[01:03:13] We mentioned it.

[01:03:13] We don't need to do it again, but it does feel an unintentionally cruel to send Martha

[01:03:19] of all people out into the crowd like that.

[01:03:21] It does.

[01:03:22] It does.

[01:03:23] I, by the way, that kiss, I just like, yeah, that you, you really did sell that these people

[01:03:31] were a couple.

[01:03:32] Yeah.

[01:03:32] There was some passion to that kiss.

[01:03:34] I hope that they get more than just that one kiss.

[01:03:37] That's my worry.

[01:03:38] I'm like, don't split up.

[01:03:39] What if, I don't know.

[01:03:40] What if you never see each other again?

[01:03:43] I like Carla was like subsequently arrested by what looks like every Raider in the silo.

[01:03:49] Like how many people do you need to arrest?

[01:03:52] She's like, I'm just sitting here.

[01:03:54] I'm just sitting here.

[01:03:56] Yeah.

[01:03:56] Yeah.

[01:03:56] She, Carly just simply waiting at the cafe to be arrested.

[01:03:59] And Amundsen has Raiders in plain clothes, waiting to intercept Knox and Shirley who can

[01:04:04] be seen running down the stairs.

[01:04:06] They're quote unquote, whipping up the crowd while they wait.

[01:04:09] Shirley and Knox pretend to be a married couple going for a casual run down the stairs when

[01:04:14] they're stopped by the mob who demand to see their IDs and attack them when they refuse.

[01:04:19] Knox and Shirley, of course, fight back.

[01:04:21] And the brawl continues until Camille Sims wearing her old Raider gear interrupts.

[01:04:26] She tells them judge Sims.

[01:04:28] Once the fugitives taken into custody, she says justice belongs to the silo, not the mob.

[01:04:33] She gets Knox and Shirley's cooperation by pointing out the crowd will kill them.

[01:04:37] And she cuffs them and takes them away.

[01:04:40] So.

[01:04:41] I just have to point out in the book, uh, Shirley, who's, whose name is spelled without an E in

[01:04:46] the book is married to a man named Mark, who obviously he's an important person in mechanical

[01:04:51] in the books, but he obviously didn't make it into this version of the show.

[01:04:53] So I had to think of Mark when she was like, Oh, we're married.

[01:04:57] We're a couple.

[01:05:00] Do you think Rob has the slightest idea what his wife is up to right now?

[01:05:04] No, not clue.

[01:05:07] Because if he, because if he did, he'd stop her.

[01:05:10] Yeah, I think so.

[01:05:11] I mean, what's, do you think her goal is to undermine Bernard?

[01:05:14] Because Rob said if the mob killed these people, Bernard would get a reset.

[01:05:20] Possibly.

[01:05:21] I mean, like I said, I thought what she was going to do.

[01:05:23] Is take them in to judicial and have like a trial.

[01:05:29] Mm-hmm.

[01:05:30] Because that would be a way of putting Rob front and center.

[01:05:34] Right.

[01:05:34] It would be a way of filling this ceremonial post with actual power and importance, or

[01:05:41] at least the impression of power and importance.

[01:05:44] Yeah.

[01:05:44] I'm not really sure what her end game is here.

[01:05:48] No, no, I'm curious too, because it seems like there's some short sighted moves too.

[01:05:52] So I need to wait another episode to see how it all plays out.

[01:05:55] Yeah.

[01:05:57] Yeah.

[01:05:58] But yeah, instead of turning Knox and Shirley in, Camille takes them to an apartment on janitorial,

[01:06:03] more of a glorified closet really.

[01:06:05] And she kicks out the guy inside named Asa, played by Ross Armstrong, so that she can stash

[01:06:11] them there to hide out.

[01:06:12] And she tells them to lay low until it quiets down and warns them about the barricade set

[01:06:17] up on 1.30.

[01:06:18] Before he goes, Asa asks them not to eat everything in the fridge and warns them to be wary of

[01:06:24] their apparent savior, who he thinks is hella scary.

[01:06:28] I just love the line.

[01:06:29] Do you mind if I grab my trousers?

[01:06:31] I don't know why you didn't do that in the first place.

[01:06:34] Yeah.

[01:06:35] I don't know why you didn't reach for those first.

[01:06:37] Yeah.

[01:06:38] Can I put on some pants at least?

[01:06:39] I don't know why you didn't start there.

[01:06:41] Yeah.

[01:06:42] Um, yeah.

[01:06:44] So we learned the cameras are out in this alleyway of janitorial.

[01:06:49] So yeah, the janitors always be shady like that.

[01:06:53] Nox and Shirley don't know why she's helping them, which makes sense because I only half

[01:06:59] know why.

[01:07:01] Um, I do wonder.

[01:07:03] So Asa is sent to stay with his ex-wife on 83.

[01:07:05] That's so specific.

[01:07:06] I wonder if he's going to come back and if his wife's going to turn out to be anybody

[01:07:11] important for the show.

[01:07:13] Okay.

[01:07:13] Yeah, that's a good point.

[01:07:15] I love how she just commands him to go back to work.

[01:07:18] He's like, I just got off work.

[01:07:19] She's like, you're hard, hardworking dude.

[01:07:21] Get out of it.

[01:07:22] Damn.

[01:07:24] Um, and she says, when you hear about a bounty for the people who murdered Meadows, you'll

[01:07:28] ignore it so that I keep ignoring you.

[01:07:30] Now, what has he done that he's so worried about her, you know, more than he wants 2000

[01:07:41] credits?

[01:07:42] Maybe, maybe he's another trader in relics.

[01:07:46] Um, maybe like, we still don't know what the penalty is for theft in the silo, but I imagine

[01:07:54] it's very steep.

[01:07:55] Well, I think it's, they said like some petty thefts and stuff get sent down to the scrapper

[01:08:00] room.

[01:08:01] Okay.

[01:08:03] Um, but yeah, I'm going to go with either trading in relics or like a black marketeer.

[01:08:09] Hmm.

[01:08:10] Hmm.

[01:08:11] And she's maybe looking the other way.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:15] Uh, Knox points out that every department thinks they're the ones keeping the silo running

[01:08:20] since Asa thinks it's janitorial slash plumbing.

[01:08:24] And surely, surely a Knox are definitely, you know, I said, are they going to make up?

[01:08:29] Well, it seems like they're more than making up.

[01:08:31] She, she tells Knox, he's a good leader.

[01:08:33] Do you think like that there's a vibe developing between them?

[01:08:37] The, the husband comment got me thinking.

[01:08:42] Maybe I'm just, I'm not sure they would go to that.

[01:08:47] Well, again, so soon after Bernard and Meadows, it would seem.

[01:08:53] I mean, people get together all the time.

[01:08:54] It's true, but like.

[01:08:56] There can be more than one couple at a time.

[01:08:58] It's true.

[01:08:59] But like, I just think from a writing point of view, it would look, yeah, it would look

[01:09:04] like you're going back to the same well a bit too often.

[01:09:06] Uh, I disagree.

[01:09:08] I think especially with like the looming end of the world or whatever, you know, feel

[01:09:13] so urgent with the rising rebellion and everything.

[01:09:16] I would love Knox and Shirley as a couple.

[01:09:20] Yeah.

[01:09:20] I mean, they are, they, they would just be a look, a brilliantly chaotic couple.

[01:09:26] It'd just be like the couple that you're threatened with if you don't.

[01:09:30] Exactly.

[01:09:31] Yeah.

[01:09:32] Eat your broccoli.

[01:09:33] No.

[01:09:33] Yeah.

[01:09:33] Yeah.

[01:09:34] Who would you be more scared of the two of them or Sims?

[01:09:38] All Sims.

[01:09:39] Yeah.

[01:09:40] Yeah.

[01:09:40] Yeah.

[01:09:40] Because they have morals.

[01:09:42] Yeah.

[01:09:43] Yeah.

[01:09:45] So Knox now thinks that he was wrong about asking nicely, but Shirley says we were damned

[01:09:52] from the beginning either way, but if we did it my way by asking nicely, I mean going up

[01:09:57] to the, you know, ask the judge and then all that happened.

[01:10:00] And Shirley says we were damned from, from the beginning either way.

[01:10:03] But if we did it my way, we'd already be dead.

[01:10:05] Do you agree with either or both?

[01:10:07] Uh, yeah, I agree with both.

[01:10:10] Hmm.

[01:10:11] Like, I mean, I think from, I think Knox's plan was worth trying from his point of view,

[01:10:19] but I can also see why he'd be pretty disillusioned at this point.

[01:10:24] And yeah, if they had gone along with Shirley's plan and so far as she had a plan, yeah, they

[01:10:29] would have all wound up dead.

[01:10:30] Yeah.

[01:10:31] Yeah.

[01:10:32] Yeah.

[01:10:35] So back at home in the Sims household, Rob crawls into bed with his wife and Sims tells

[01:10:40] him he had a crappy first day at his new job where his former power is neutered and he's

[01:10:46] being kept out of the watcher loop.

[01:10:48] Camille doesn't tell him what she's been up to, but assures her husband that all of

[01:10:53] the suspects would be in custody already if he were in charge.

[01:10:57] It's like you are laying on with a trowel Camille.

[01:11:01] Yeah.

[01:11:02] Like you're really laying on thick here.

[01:11:05] Well, yeah, maybe they would be in custody more quickly because she wouldn't be helping

[01:11:09] them escape custody.

[01:11:11] Yeah.

[01:11:13] So as soon as like he would get reinstated, she would immediately turn on them.

[01:11:18] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:11:19] Yeah.

[01:11:21] Um, I mean, my question though, about this whole thing is obviously, you know, I

[01:11:26] everyone knows who she, she like used her husband's name.

[01:11:29] So everyone knows that she took these people into custody and then they disappeared.

[01:11:36] There are cameras of this all happening, you know, the, it's all on camera.

[01:11:41] Um, how does she not think that her husband wouldn't find out eventually or.

[01:11:47] Yeah.

[01:11:47] It's her long game here.

[01:11:49] Cause I mean, Amundsen literally tells Bernard it was, it was Camille Sims.

[01:11:54] Um, and I was quite surprised that, you know, Bernard's reaction to that wasn't to go, can

[01:12:01] you send some raiders to arrest Camille Sims?

[01:12:04] It was just find the, you know, find Knox and Shirley.

[01:12:08] Yeah.

[01:12:09] Um, which is a bit odd.

[01:12:11] Yeah.

[01:12:11] Um, but yeah, I have no idea what a long game.

[01:12:16] I have no idea what a long game is.

[01:12:18] I don't think we can assume there is a long game to be honest.

[01:12:21] She may just be like hopping from move to move.

[01:12:24] I mean, I think she is a long-term planner, but that maybe she, maybe she's not as clever

[01:12:31] as she thinks she is.

[01:12:33] I think that's certainly true.

[01:12:35] Yeah.

[01:12:35] She's not Meadows.

[01:12:38] And I think it's more worrying for her that Bernard isn't sending for her to be arrested.

[01:12:44] I think you might have more nefarious.

[01:12:47] Yeah.

[01:12:48] Behind the closed door plans.

[01:12:50] So what are, what are we think?

[01:12:51] What are we thinking?

[01:12:52] She takes a, she takes a tumble over a banister somewhere.

[01:12:56] I don't, that's, that feels too obvious, but I don't know.

[01:12:59] I don't know how many, how many moves he has left to, left to play.

[01:13:02] I wonder whether he's got any more of that poison left.

[01:13:06] Hmm.

[01:13:07] Yeah.

[01:13:09] So we check back in with level 105 deputy station admin, uh, Sandy played by Chippo Chung.

[01:13:16] This is the once reluctant admin for Juliet, who we saw last saw escorting Martha and co upstairs toward the judges meeting.

[01:13:26] She's trying to get back home to level one 32 from a long day of work when she encounters the barricade on one 30.

[01:13:32] And she's basically told tough luck tootsie, uh, by the smug Raiders guarding the gate.

[01:13:38] And Walker meanwhile has blended into the crowd and she slips away while this argument is taking place.

[01:13:44] Seeing that the, her way down is blocked because of course Sandy would recognize Walker since they met on the way up.

[01:13:52] So I guess first of all, that Sandy lives in the down deep after all, because she was so prejudiced about the down deep, but if she's below one 30, that's definitely not lower mids.

[01:14:02] Okay.

[01:14:03] So, so she tells everybody it's lower mids, but it's not really lower mids.

[01:14:08] Right.

[01:14:10] It's like living in the suburbs and saying I grew up in the suburbs, but if you ask me, I'm from Philadelphia.

[01:14:15] Exactly.

[01:14:16] Yeah, exactly.

[01:14:18] I didn't, by the way, I didn't write down the names of the random Raiders.

[01:14:22] That's more important characters interact with this episode, but I just wanted to point out that in the credits and on IMDB, several of them are, are listed as clearly a Raider number one, et cetera.

[01:14:35] Clearly a Raider.

[01:14:40] So eventually Shirley and Knox decide it's time to make their move.

[01:14:43] Asa warned them.

[01:14:45] It was in their best interest not to be there when Camille came back.

[01:14:48] Knox says all they can do is hit the stairs and run like hell, but Shirley says they should go up rather than down where they know there's a barricade.

[01:14:57] Meanwhile, Amundsen knows where they are stashed on 73.

[01:15:00] And he tells Bernard, he checked all the residences with no luck, but he's got everyone on the job and has locked down the trash chute.

[01:15:08] But Bernard is stuck on why an ex-Raider would stash them on 73.

[01:15:13] Amundsen says because she was concerned, they might be strung up, which makes sense because Amundsen doesn't yet realize his new job requires him to be a murderous douchebag.

[01:15:22] But Bernard is, of course, thrilled to find out that the former Raider is Camille Sims, who's got to be fast rising on the list of thorns in his side.

[01:15:32] He tells Amundsen, find those fucking mechanicals.

[01:15:36] Yeah, and he puts some real heat into that as well.

[01:15:41] Yeah.

[01:15:41] He is pissed.

[01:15:43] He is all kinds of pissed.

[01:15:46] I mean, my question is, is Camille provoking Bernard on purpose?

[01:15:51] Because she's got to know there's no way he's not going to find this out like right away.

[01:15:55] Yeah, but to what end?

[01:15:57] I don't know.

[01:15:58] Yeah.

[01:16:00] Yeah.

[01:16:00] She's got to be doing this on purpose.

[01:16:03] Whose life are we most worried about in the short term?

[01:16:07] Amundsen, Camille, or Rob?

[01:16:09] I would say Camille.

[01:16:11] Yeah.

[01:16:12] I think you have to take Camille and Rob as a couple.

[01:16:16] Like, I think, you know, one of them would happily die for the other and vice versa.

[01:16:24] I mean, can you imagine?

[01:16:26] Well, first of all, I guess there's some, Bernard would see it as some sort of justice considering

[01:16:31] he was forced to kill Meadows.

[01:16:33] Um, yeah, but also Bernard, you weren't forced to kill Meadows.

[01:16:36] That's right.

[01:16:37] That's just what you're telling yourself.

[01:16:39] Exactly.

[01:16:39] The story Bernard tells himself is he was forced.

[01:16:42] So he would see it as some sort of justice, but can you imagine what Rob would do?

[01:16:46] Yeah, I'm going to say, like, Robert Sims would like, it would be like proper vigilante, you know, death wish.

[01:16:54] Get out of this man's way.

[01:16:56] He is going to kill, he's not only going to kill Bernard, he's probably going to rip him in front of the limb.

[01:17:01] Yeah.

[01:17:02] Yeah.

[01:17:02] Completely agree.

[01:17:04] Well, Knox and Shirley are running up and Knox is smashing cameras and Shirley's not answering his questions,

[01:17:10] but they end up back in Porter dispatch where Knox and Shirley tie up Calvin and take the rope cable and machine that make up the descender rig that they talked about earlier, the powered winch system.

[01:17:21] And Knox takes the multi-tool back from Calvin to telling him it's not Juliet's anyway, but he doesn't want him to sell it like it is.

[01:17:29] Knox and Shirley pick up their Porter packs, which provides some disguise going back down, allowing them to run right past a group of Raiders with only one called Barnes, by the way, turning his head before being called back to attention.

[01:17:43] But in the watchers room, Diego obvious who's looking for any pair of people moving down the stairs spots them on level 92.

[01:17:51] Amundsen goes after them and tells Diego to message the mayor.

[01:17:56] So it was pointed out last season, by the way, that smashing cameras can actually call attention to a location.

[01:18:01] So Knox chill.

[01:18:02] Yes.

[01:18:05] Also like Knox is enjoying that.

[01:18:07] It's like smashy, smashy.

[01:18:11] Well, he's getting a lot of exercise.

[01:18:13] Yeah.

[01:18:14] Um, so Knox and Shirley stop at a certain point, hopeful that they're far enough down that they can use the pilfer descender rig to lower themselves the rest of the way, bypassing the barricade.

[01:18:24] By the time it's set up, Amundsen has caught up to them.

[01:18:27] So they just grab each other's hands and take a leap of faith.

[01:18:30] It doesn't get them all the way to the bottom, but it gets them into their safe zone and people help pull them up onto the nearest bridge just in time before Amundsen shoots the cable, holding them to snap it.

[01:19:11] And then the other side of the door is going to be unnoticed.

[01:19:12] Bernard radios Billings that he expects him to do his duty to the silo by apprehending the fugitives, which are now down there with him.

[01:19:21] And Billings says, of course, Mr. Mayor in a flat voice without reporting.

[01:19:25] He's sitting in the same room with another fugitive Patrick and his niece Francis as Hank tends to Patrick's gunshot wound as best he can.

[01:19:35] A lot of fanfare for this descender rig that didn't end up lasting too long.

[01:19:40] Do you think we're going to see that technology again?

[01:19:43] I hope so.

[01:19:44] Cause it's cool.

[01:19:45] Yeah.

[01:19:46] I want to see somebody use it to go the other way.

[01:19:49] I want to use it.

[01:19:50] Somebody use it to go up.

[01:19:52] Yeah.

[01:19:53] Yeah.

[01:19:54] Like Batman style.

[01:19:55] Oh, I just realized, wasn't there a shot in the trailer of two people jumping over the side?

[01:20:00] I guess that was Knox and Shirley.

[01:20:03] Like it looked almost like bungee jumping.

[01:20:05] I'd have to go back and rewatch it.

[01:20:07] Hmm.

[01:20:08] By the way, Billings tone when he, as soon as before we even saw his face, as soon as he answered the radio and said, yes, Mr. Mayor.

[01:20:15] I'm like, oh, he is so done with.

[01:20:17] Oh, he's so done with the pack.

[01:20:21] He's still reading the packs.

[01:20:22] But I think, well, this is a thing is he says to Bernard, you can always count on me to faithfully serve the silo and the pact.

[01:20:29] So I think that means Billings no longer thinks serving Bernard does those things.

[01:20:34] Yeah, that's, that's very true.

[01:20:37] Of course he doesn't know about the order.

[01:20:40] And I just want to point out that Francis, this niece of Patrick is listed in the front of the credits with the recurring characters.

[01:20:48] So I'm wondering if that means she will be more important this season.

[01:20:51] It's hard to tell if that means anything or if their agents just negotiate a better placement for their names.

[01:20:57] Okay.

[01:20:58] All right.

[01:20:59] And that's a good place to switch to the other silo and see what Juliet and Solo have been up to.

[01:21:06] All right.

[01:21:07] Checking in with Juliet's new suit and Solo stories.

[01:21:10] So using the fire department suit she scavenged during her dive last week, Juliet continues construction on a new suit to go outside to get back to her silo.

[01:21:20] But she still needs to find a helmet or figure out how to fix her old helmet and connect it to the new suits because she does not want to get back into the water.

[01:21:29] Um, Solo comes by to hang out while she works and Juliet asks him how he has electricity given that his silo's generator is under shit tons of water.

[01:21:38] And Solo says IT has its own power source, but he has no idea where it comes from just from the outside.

[01:21:46] So do you have any thoughts or theories on that?

[01:21:48] I'm so glad they addressed that particular elephant in the room or at least nodded that the elephant in the room existed.

[01:21:56] Um, because it's been like bothering me since episode one, you know, where is the power going from?

[01:22:02] Well, we've, we see power lines snaked across the ceiling in that silo when Juliet was exploring in episode one.

[01:22:09] Yeah.

[01:22:09] So like they did, they didn't, um, they didn't solve that particular problem, but I'm glad they at least acknowledged that it exists.

[01:22:19] Mm hmm.

[01:22:20] Yeah.

[01:22:21] Yeah, exactly.

[01:22:22] Yeah.

[01:22:22] So they, it's, they're telling us that they're going to give us answers just every now.

[01:22:26] Yes.

[01:22:26] Just not right now.

[01:22:28] So Juliet asks Solo why their generator failed.

[01:22:32] And he says some judicial raiders blew up the groundwater pump on one 44 to flood out mechanical, apparently not thinking about how it would flood the generator then too.

[01:22:41] And without the generator and without this mysterious source of electricity silo 17's IT has all the pumps have failed and the water just keeps rising.

[01:22:50] So Solo is worried about that.

[01:22:52] And Juliet points out that the nearest groundwater pump is on level 30.

[01:22:56] So that's seven levels below where we saw Juliet diving last week.

[01:23:00] But if Solo could figure out how to connect some of his electricity to the pump, it could be turned back on.

[01:23:06] So the water wouldn't keep rising until it reached IT.

[01:23:09] Uh, solo wants Juliet's help to do this.

[01:23:13] Basically he wants her to take another deeper dive, but she's still doing her suit project and she's worried about her own silo and she doesn't have time for that.

[01:23:21] Plus, like she said, she doesn't want to get back in the water that sucked.

[01:23:24] And it was super scary, but solo's done the math and he knows he has only 10 months until the water starts to seep into it.

[01:23:34] But Juliet thinks her silo might only have days left based on what Solo said, unless she can get back there and warn them.

[01:23:40] So yeah, the groundwater thing, you know, it, indeed, the silos are built, uh, to a mile underground.

[01:23:48] So you would need to pump out groundwater because, um, I don't know exactly where the water table is groundwater.

[01:23:56] The water table levels varies, but yes, it would definitely be flooding the silo.

[01:24:00] Definitely.

[01:24:00] Yeah.

[01:24:01] Pretty much anywhere.

[01:24:02] Yeah.

[01:24:03] Um, will she help him or do you think she is just going to focus on getting back to her own silo?

[01:24:10] Well, I think from Juliet's point of view, if she gets back to her own silo, like she's not just going to leave solo there.

[01:24:18] So once things have calmed down in silo 18, I, I, my working assumption would be that she'd go back and either help him or fetch him back to silo 18.

[01:24:30] If he'd be willing to go.

[01:24:31] Yeah.

[01:24:33] Yeah.

[01:24:34] But yeah, she's not just going to leave solo to drown.

[01:24:37] No, no, that's not, that's not like Juliet, but I just can't help but question.

[01:24:43] Like, even if she could get back to her own silo, what could she say that would stop the revolt?

[01:24:50] Like would telling people about the dead silo help?

[01:24:54] Like, how do you calm a mom of 10,000 people or whatever?

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:24:59] And also like, it's not as though, it's not as though like the riots are about people wanting to go outside.

[01:25:08] Mm hmm.

[01:25:09] So this is not an exact analog of what happened in silo 17 or doesn't seem to be at the moment.

[01:25:16] Right.

[01:25:17] Um, this seems to be more, you know, in line with what the order prescribes, which is kind of, you know, the whole point of that is it's irrelevant.

[01:25:27] What happened to Juliet? Juliet is not a factor in that.

[01:25:31] Yeah.

[01:25:32] Or at least not directly anyway.

[01:25:34] Yeah.

[01:25:36] Yeah.

[01:25:37] Well, yeah, I guess.

[01:25:38] I mean, actually, I think the, what would actually happen is people would be so shocked that she'd come back that it would be, you know, to use Sims's phrase, it would be a reset to everything.

[01:25:50] Right.

[01:25:51] Right.

[01:25:52] I mean, I guess it would also just depend on like how she played it because Bernard could, Bernard could spin it as like, oh, the hero returns.

[01:26:02] Yeah.

[01:26:02] But she could also throw him under the bus.

[01:26:04] Yeah.

[01:26:05] Yeah.

[01:26:06] So it's whether, it's whether, um, Juliet is willing to go along with Bernard.

[01:26:10] I think she might be in like the interests of not everybody, not dying.

[01:26:17] Yeah.

[01:26:19] Yep.

[01:26:20] But for now, Juliet shuts down the whole diving discussion by saying that, um, modifying her old helmet, it isn't working.

[01:26:28] So she needs to go find one that fits the firefighter suit and solo trails after her visibly distressed about, you know, the flooding thing.

[01:26:37] Juliet confronts him about his name saying it can't actually be solo.

[01:26:42] And he says his name is actually Cole Myers.

[01:26:44] He says he got the nickname solo after an event.

[01:26:47] He went to alone where he told someone he was there, quote unquote solo and Russell, the head of it's kid overheard and thought his actual name was solo and started calling him that.

[01:26:57] And we later find out that this is bullshit.

[01:27:00] When Juliet finds a picture of the real solo slash Cole Myers, who does not look like the person she's been calling solo.

[01:27:08] Yeah.

[01:27:09] And then solo goes absolute goes off on one.

[01:27:13] Yeah.

[01:27:13] We're going to talk about that in a minute, but yeah.

[01:27:16] But this, this whole solo lying thing is kind of new.

[01:27:20] And I messaged you and I said, the book readers might freak out a little about this.

[01:27:25] And I think.

[01:27:26] And you know, exact words were book readers are going to have a heart attack over this episode.

[01:27:33] I think there's some stuff like that where it's like solo, you liar.

[01:27:38] But yeah, that, that whole like, um, taking somebody else's name thing isn't from the book for sure.

[01:27:44] Okay.

[01:27:45] But do you think I, do you think that's the real story of how the real Cole Myers got his name?

[01:27:50] It sounds too goofy to be alive.

[01:27:54] Yeah.

[01:27:54] I, yeah, I think it's real.

[01:27:55] I think it's real.

[01:27:56] Yeah.

[01:27:58] I love to see, by the way, you know, when she finds later that it's the wrong person.

[01:28:03] I love that to see that like hand drawn quote unquote photography that they have in their home.

[01:28:07] This is really well done, isn't it?

[01:28:09] Yeah.

[01:28:09] Yeah.

[01:28:11] And also we find out in this scene that solo is clearly actually read Romeo and Juliet.

[01:28:15] He quotes it and he knows the plot and Juliet has clearly not, or at least not our version of it.

[01:28:23] So I'm wondering like, what does she know?

[01:28:26] And how did she get that name?

[01:28:28] Juliet going, they don't die.

[01:28:30] They don't die.

[01:28:31] Yeah.

[01:28:31] Yeah.

[01:28:33] Did they like cut out the end or?

[01:28:37] It's Romeo and Juliet with a happy ending.

[01:28:40] Yeah.

[01:28:40] They all, they all just go off and get married and fair Verona remains fair Verona.

[01:28:47] I don't know.

[01:28:48] Yeah.

[01:28:48] I'm wondering, I'm wondering if she's only been exposed to like a modified version of the play.

[01:28:53] Hmm.

[01:28:53] Cause yeah, there are probably like 50, 50 slight variations on Romeo and Juliet.

[01:28:59] Yeah.

[01:29:00] So we also see throughout this stretch, this section, Juliet is struggling.

[01:29:05] She's not feeling too great.

[01:29:07] And eventually toward the end, but we should just get out of the way, talk about it.

[01:29:12] Now she takes a peek under her bandages and the skin on that exposed injury on her arm.

[01:29:17] It's almost looks like it's dissolving or something like it looks like it's some sort of flesh eating virus or something.

[01:29:24] Yeah.

[01:29:24] Yeah.

[01:29:24] Cause it looks like a much deeper wound now than it was.

[01:29:28] It was when she first entered silo 17.

[01:29:31] Yeah.

[01:29:32] So yeah, it's like some bacteria or something is literally eating through her arm.

[01:29:36] Yeah.

[01:29:37] But it doesn't look, I guess it is pussy.

[01:29:39] Yeah.

[01:29:39] Hmm.

[01:29:40] It doesn't look good.

[01:29:40] It doesn't look good.

[01:29:41] No, it's, it is definitely pussy.

[01:29:43] It's leaking something.

[01:29:45] Mm-hmm .

[01:29:46] Yeah.

[01:29:46] And it's not blood.

[01:29:48] So yeah, that's, that's going to be a factor, something that's got to be dealt with as well.

[01:29:52] I guess that, uh, dive, the several swims she's been in now weren't it up to.

[01:29:57] Yeah.

[01:29:57] Can't, can't have helped.

[01:29:59] Mm-hmm .

[01:30:01] Well, I just mean that I, I said that like maybe that washed off whatever was outside

[01:30:06] from outside clinging to her arm, but I guess not.

[01:30:09] Yeah, no.

[01:30:10] I'm like neither solo nor Juliet have, well, Juliet might have picked up some medical knowledge

[01:30:17] from her dad, but neither of them are doctors.

[01:30:20] Uh, um, she's, so there's, there's now a time limit on, um, on how long she's got to

[01:30:29] get back to Silo 18, but there's also like, would she, would she even be able to make the

[01:30:34] journey?

[01:30:35] Right.

[01:30:35] Cause like.

[01:30:36] But could her dad even or doctors there treat, treat this, you know, that's presumably

[01:30:43] an infection from the outside.

[01:30:45] Probably not, but they're better.

[01:30:48] They'll be better at it than, uh, than solo and Juliet.

[01:30:52] Hmm.

[01:30:53] Hmm.

[01:30:54] But yeah.

[01:30:55] Like how is she going to make the journey?

[01:30:57] Because like the last shot of the episode is her passed out on the floor.

[01:31:02] Yeah.

[01:31:02] Yeah.

[01:31:03] Okay.

[01:31:03] So let's wrap up, uh, what happens with Juliet and solo here.

[01:31:07] So Juliet, she's not doing well, but she keeps looking for that helmet and she finds a

[01:31:13] clipboard in the suit lab with a note asking whoever quote unquote borrowed one of the

[01:31:17] helmets to please not give into the rising lawlessness and return the helmets.

[01:31:22] So this gives Juliet the idea.

[01:31:24] There must be a helmet stashed out there somewhere in the wild, presumably in a home close enough.

[01:31:29] It would be, it belonged to someone who worked in the lab.

[01:31:32] So Juliet finds the employee directory for this level.

[01:31:36] And by the way, um, when I paused and looked there's one of the employees in the directory

[01:31:42] that she thumbs past is named Cole Myers.

[01:31:45] And, uh, that's the name that solo gave earlier.

[01:31:48] And the, that person is indeed labeled it shadow.

[01:31:52] Okay.

[01:31:52] Interesting.

[01:31:53] So it is.

[01:31:54] And it is the person that she sees a picture of later.

[01:31:56] It's the same person.

[01:31:57] So that was in that employee directory, but at that moment, she's like, she's too out of

[01:32:03] it to notice.

[01:32:04] Yeah.

[01:32:04] She's too focused on what she wants.

[01:32:07] Well, yeah.

[01:32:07] And, and she's like swaying and like, just not in a good shape.

[01:32:11] Yeah.

[01:32:13] Um, so she ends up, uh, finding the list of the employees for this specific lab, because

[01:32:19] those would be the people who had access to steal a helmet.

[01:32:22] Luckily for her, there's only three names on that list.

[01:32:24] Uh, Sunil J Marjorie Penn and Trina Samuels and Marjorie's apartments on 23, which is that

[01:32:30] level, uh, Juliet dove to last episode, but luckily two of them, the other two are on 16

[01:32:36] and 17 above the flooding.

[01:32:39] So she, she finds, uh, Trina's apartment and searches it and finds that framed picture

[01:32:46] of her and the real Cole Myers labeled solo and tiny.

[01:32:50] And when solo brings her dinner later, she shows him the picture and confronts him about

[01:32:54] lying and solo flips out screaming in her face.

[01:32:58] I am the it shadow.

[01:33:01] You don't know what you're talking about.

[01:33:03] Don't you say those words to me ever.

[01:33:05] I am solo.

[01:33:06] I am the it shadow.

[01:33:08] Do you hear me?

[01:33:09] And Juliet is clearly shaken and apologizes for questioning him, calling him solo.

[01:33:14] And she excuses herself and leave solo running off to the other apartment on the list where

[01:33:20] she finally finds the pilfered helmets under a bed, but the wound on her arm is getting

[01:33:24] so bad that Juliet collapses.

[01:33:27] So why do you think solo is so like his reaction?

[01:33:34] He's obviously deeply invested in this lie that he told her about claiming this other guy's

[01:33:41] identity.

[01:33:42] What do you think that's about?

[01:33:43] I'm not sure.

[01:33:45] I mean, like he seems to have like completely dissociated, like he believes he is solo.

[01:33:53] Um, I wonder whether or not he might have been a child at the time of the rebellion.

[01:33:59] I wonder whether he might be solo and tiny's child and they couldn't bear the thought of

[01:34:09] him dying.

[01:34:11] So, I mean, this is just headcanon, but what if the real Cole Myers basically told him you

[01:34:18] pretend to be me as long as there is somebody in that vault?

[01:34:23] You know, as long as the job is getting done, it doesn't necessarily have to be me.

[01:34:28] It's just that we've had several sort of references in earlier episodes to solo's age.

[01:34:35] Mm hmm.

[01:34:37] Um, that whole thing where he said that that backpack was from lapis.

[01:34:41] Yeah.

[01:34:42] So, yeah.

[01:34:43] Lapis would be like 12.

[01:34:44] Yeah.

[01:34:45] So I wonder whether he was, um, Cole Myers and Katrina and Trina Samuels, um, child that

[01:34:52] they were trying to save.

[01:34:53] But he said, he did bring up a different child this episode.

[01:34:56] Um, he said that the person who gave solo his name was Russell's child.

[01:35:02] Yeah.

[01:35:02] And he said the last person who yelled at him, stay in here, never open the door.

[01:35:07] Never was Russell.

[01:35:10] Yeah.

[01:35:10] I'm not sure what's going on, but clearly there's more to solo's story than we know.

[01:35:16] Um, and hopefully that, that blank gets filled in in future episodes.

[01:35:20] Yeah, for sure.

[01:35:21] Yeah.

[01:35:21] That's definitely gonna.

[01:35:23] Yeah.

[01:35:23] So where is solo on the Sims nerd scale for you now?

[01:35:26] See, this is the thing like solo is so, um, so damaged and so vulnerable that it doesn't

[01:35:36] feel right putting him on the Sims nerd scale because I'm not sure he's like really responsible

[01:35:41] for his actions.

[01:35:43] Hmm.

[01:35:44] Um, so I'd resist putting him on the Sims nerd scale because I think he's, he's quite seriously

[01:35:51] ill.

[01:35:52] Hmm.

[01:35:53] Um, and you know, not, not really compass mentis.

[01:35:59] Okay.

[01:36:00] Okay.

[01:36:01] Do you think he and Juliet, they, they were like, you know, they were becoming friends.

[01:36:05] Do you think they can come back from this moment?

[01:36:09] Yes.

[01:36:09] Because solo so desperately needs the company.

[01:36:12] Like, Hmm.

[01:36:13] Juliet is the only thing like hanging onto the last shreds of his identity as sanity.

[01:36:20] But would Juliet, I mean, I guess she doesn't really have a choice at the moment because

[01:36:24] she's passed out in an apartment somewhere.

[01:36:27] No, she doesn't.

[01:36:28] He's, he's the only one who can possibly help her.

[01:36:31] But like, does he have the skill to help her?

[01:36:35] I'm not sure.

[01:36:36] I mean, it's not, he's not a doctor, but Hey, he does know random things like obviously

[01:36:41] about music and literature, but also he said things like about, um, about their, you know,

[01:36:49] he understood some, some engineering things.

[01:36:51] Like he understood that she needed that, uh, that bladder from the, um, harmonium.

[01:36:57] And he unders, he asked her about where the sun was positioned when she walked to try

[01:37:03] to figure out which direction she came from.

[01:37:04] So he does seem to have a lot of random knowledge.

[01:37:08] Yeah.

[01:37:09] And there may be that silo 17 may have more information about what's going on on the outside.

[01:37:16] You think?

[01:37:17] Or maybe the head of it did.

[01:37:20] Yeah.

[01:37:20] Well, I mean, I think, yeah, I guess that's the question is we still don't, even though

[01:37:25] we've spent a lot of time with Bernard, we don't know how much he does or doesn't know.

[01:37:28] Cause it's cause then we get surprised by him not knowing things like about the tunnel

[01:37:33] at the bottom of his own silo.

[01:37:34] Yeah.

[01:37:35] Like Bernard's knowledge is very uneven.

[01:37:38] So like in episode, in episode four, you know, where he's showing, um, Judge Meadows,

[01:37:46] the virtual reality display, he can name all the animals.

[01:37:49] He knows male from female.

[01:37:51] He knows that it was in Costa Rica in 2018.

[01:37:56] And yeah, he doesn't know about the tunnel.

[01:37:58] Right.

[01:37:59] So it's not the Bernard, Bernard knows a lot, but the nature of his knowledge is uneven.

[01:38:05] Yeah.

[01:38:07] Yeah.

[01:38:08] All right.

[01:38:09] Do you have any final thoughts on the episode?

[01:38:12] Judge Sims.

[01:38:15] Like that's going to take some getting used to.

[01:38:20] What, what do you most hope it hope to see happen next week?

[01:38:25] I want to know what's going on with Camille Sims.

[01:38:28] Like what is her plan?

[01:38:29] Mm-hmm.

[01:38:30] Cause she just seems to be doing like a bunch of random stuff at the moment.

[01:38:35] And I don't think it is random stuff.

[01:38:37] She clearly has a plan.

[01:38:39] I just have no idea what it is.

[01:38:41] Mm-hmm.

[01:38:41] Or where it's going.

[01:38:43] Yeah.

[01:38:45] I, I want to know where Danny is.

[01:38:48] Is he secret?

[01:38:48] Is he safe?

[01:38:49] Um, and I need Lucas's story to get back, just to get on the book plot.

[01:38:54] I was going to say back on the book plot, but it barely was ever on it.

[01:38:59] I need to know that Lucas is safe.

[01:39:01] Okay.

[01:39:02] Yeah.

[01:39:04] And Danny, where's Danny?

[01:39:07] All right.

[01:39:07] Well, we will be back here every Friday through January 17th, breaking down each episode with

[01:39:13] more mailbags in between.

[01:39:14] And we also want to hear your thoughts on the show and yeah, all of your thoughts and

[01:39:19] theories, which we will discuss and post to the rest of the community in these extra mailbag

[01:39:23] episodes.

[01:39:24] Um, please email them to we'll shift just podcast at gmail.com and also join the conversation

[01:39:31] on discord.

[01:39:32] There's a dedicated forum with separate chats per episode and a book spoiler discussion as

[01:39:36] well.

[01:39:38] By the way, book spoiler feedback is also welcome, but then that feedback will be discussed in

[01:39:42] the spoiler cast episodes.

[01:39:44] And this week's spoiler cast discussion is on the nature of the apocalypse.

[01:39:49] So we're going to be talking about how these people ended up in these silos and it's not

[01:39:54] specifically tied to this episode, but it feels like a topic we've it's tied to every episode.

[01:39:58] Oh, I'm so, I'm so, I'm so, I so regret.

[01:40:03] I can't listen to that.

[01:40:05] That sounds awesome.

[01:40:07] That sounds amazing.

[01:40:08] Yeah.

[01:40:09] I will say, uh, you know, this is eventually it should be revealed in the show and probably

[01:40:13] it's going to be somewhat different, but, um, okay.

[01:40:17] But yeah, I really regret.

[01:40:18] I can't listen to that.

[01:40:19] That sounds amazing.

[01:40:21] But for those of you who aren't on book spoiler timeout, if you want to become a supercast

[01:40:28] or patron subscriber, that includes all the breakdowns of the silo books and short stories, a season

[01:40:32] one spoilery rewatch, extra interviews with Hugh Howey, weekly spoiler casts.

[01:40:36] Um, and also the extras like our, our holiday episode and, uh, doing stuff coming.

[01:40:43] I want to welcome new silence and to have joined since we recorded last week, Justin G and Rosa.

[01:40:50] Thank you so much.

[01:40:51] Can't wait to share the silo stories with you and hear all of your thoughts and theories.

[01:40:56] Um, there's also a new season pass option that allows you to just get access to whichever

[01:41:02] of these episodes interests you the most for a one-time fee, just the silo episodes.

[01:41:08] You'll find links in the show notes with information about all the things that I said.

[01:41:13] Of course, we always appreciate when you share this episode with anyone who you think might

[01:41:17] like it or leave a positive review wherever you're listening.

[01:41:20] These things help us enormously and do also check out the other podcasts on the Lorehounds

[01:41:25] network.

[01:41:25] Of course on the Lorehounds feed itself, we've got weekly breakdowns of Dune prophecy going

[01:41:30] on.

[01:41:31] There's going to be some breakdowns of skeleton crew coming, uh, lots of other stuff, a wicked

[01:41:37] one shot.

[01:41:38] And also check out the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast.

[01:41:42] It's my podcast.

[01:41:43] There's properly.

[01:41:44] Howard is doing a few good film season.

[01:41:47] Radioactive ramblings is doing ramblers rising arcane and Ghibli.

[01:41:52] And nevermind.

[01:41:53] The music is always combining music and psychology so that you have new appreciation of both.

[01:41:59] And it could be said, Luke, you said episode coming up soon-ish.

[01:42:04] Maybe by the time this releases, maybe about then.

[01:42:08] Maybe.

[01:42:09] Um, obviously I've got a lot of marking.

[01:42:12] I've got a lot of papers to mark and it's my, my co-host Simon Alvey works in public affairs.

[01:42:17] So, uh, the run up to Christmas is generally his busiest time of year, but there's a lot

[01:42:22] going on in UK politics at the moment.

[01:42:24] So we're going to try and get an episode out soon.

[01:42:28] Um, we're certainly, we've certainly got a year in review episode penned in for the end

[01:42:34] of the year.

[01:42:34] If we don't do anything before then we'll certainly do that.

[01:42:37] Okay, cool.

[01:42:39] Yeah.

[01:42:40] Any last thoughts before we go?

[01:42:43] Judge Simps.

[01:42:46] All right.

[01:42:47] See you next Friday for episode six.

[01:42:48] And of course, any mailbag episodes and spoiler cast in between until then it's probably best

[01:42:54] if you head back down deep and don't let the cable winch hit you where the good Lord's

[01:42:59] lit you.