Silo: S3-e5 – "Memory" games

[00:00:26] Hello, Elysia from the Wool-Shift-Dust podcast here to jog your memory about everything learned and teased in Season 3, Episode 5 of Silo on Apple TV. Luke- And I'm Luke, your friendly neighborhood trader in Relics. I've got several authentic sheriff's badges that need moving. S3-e5 ndl- Did you have a friend in, what was it, in Crafts who owes you a favor? Luke- Yes. S3-e5 ndl- Yeah, a guy in Crafts who owes me a favor.

[00:00:56] S3-e5 ndl- So he's afraid of you. Luke- Yeah, exactly. S3-e5 ndl- This is our weekly Silo coverage, continuing again with Memory, Episode 5 of Season 3, where Juliet remembers things. But before we begin, Luke, what is the full version of our spoiler policy for this podcast? Luke- So the discussion will be spoiler free beyond what's already aired. So that means full

[00:01:20] spoilers for Season 1 and 2, and for the first five episodes of Season 3. Elysia has read the book, but I'm keeping it show only. Elysia can bring up anything from the books that has already happened on screen. But to protect my and your spoiler innocence, there'll be no future book spoilers. And we won't disclose anything from the trailer that hasn't been shown on screen yet either. Listen to the two episodes we released before the season started if you want

[00:01:50] to break down on trailers and other marketing material. S3- So, and as I always say, this leaves a lot of room for book reader speculation as well. So I promise all speculation on my part is genuine, and I will simply not comment on things I cannot comment on. But if you do want that full spoiler discussion with deep dives into the intricacies of the book version of this story, there is a separate book club podcast that fellow reader Abby

[00:02:19] and I do. Stick around until the end of the episode for more information about that. But let's jump into Memory. Episode 5 of Season 3, 53 minutes long, longest so far this season by a minute. Released July 31st, Friday, of course, 2026 on Apple TV. This one again directed by Eric Avellino. As we said, this name should sound familiar by now because he also wrote Season 1, Episode 6,

[00:02:45] the finale of Season 2, Episode 3 of this season, and directed Season 2, Episodes 3 and 4, and this season Episodes 4, this Episode 5, and he will be back to direct Episode 7. But the writer this time was Catherine DiSavino, who is also credited for Season 2, Episode 7, The Dive, and she'll be back next season as well. So this is, of course, based on the Silo series

[00:03:13] of books by Hugh Howey, the main trilogy of which is Wool, Shift, and Dust. And thanks IMDB for getting the plot right this week. The events following Juliet's return come to light, and unexpected allies are made. Luke, what did you think of this episode? You can say that again about unexpected allies. I look at Robert Sims in an entirely new light after this episode. Are we going to have to, well, not an entirely new light, that's going too far,

[00:03:42] but a slightly new light. Are we going to have to retire the SimSnar scale, Alicia? Well, I think I, again, am going to make the SimSnar scale, from my new interpretation of it, personally, is who do I most trust to tell me the truth? And I suppose, yeah, I suppose even in that case, like Bernard and SimSnar seem to be done with the lying. Yes. Except to his own wife, I'll say.

[00:04:06] Yep. By the way, if and when Camille finds out what's been going on, I'm looking forward to that conversation. I mean, and also, props to you, Alicia, because you called this in the last episode, that Sims was the one that rescued Bernard, and got him down to the digger void. I was barking up the wrong tree with Nurse Amy entirely.

[00:04:34] Yeah, well, it was the fact that Sims was waiting for Juliet in that boiler room. That was what I was like. I was like, she sent him to see Sims. And then the next question became, are Sims and Bernard working together? And that was a question that I had, but yeah, I'm glad to see it confirmed. Yeah. And we really did get a bombshell this episode as well. The silo's only got two years,

[00:04:59] two years worth of light bulbs left, and then lights out, literally and figuratively. Yeah. So I, yeah, you messaged me after you watched it, and it had been a couple of days since I first watched it. And you were like, two years. I was like, I don't remember what that means. The light bulbs, like, oh God, yeah, two years. So, the question I have then is, did critical supply in silo 17 flood?

[00:05:29] Did it? Oh, um, I mean, yes, I would imagine so. Oh, but this is a good question. Because then the question is, as we brought up before, Juliet showed, um, showed, uh, Jimmy how to, you know, drain. Pump out the water, yeah. So we're going to need listener feedback on, can you, is it, are light bulbs,

[00:05:57] are those big photovoltaic light bulbs still usable after you've gotten them wet? Yeah. Good question. Good question. How tightly are those canisters therein sealed? Yes. And, um, and, but then, so the other question is, they're in another silo. So even if they do have them, then what? Yeah. So we need to figure out some way of getting them from one silo to another.

[00:06:22] I mean, we have got two years, so we've got, we've got some time. Yeah. I would say that the more critical situation for the silo at this moment is, uh, this threat of the safeguard hanging over their heads slash if that vitamin D plus gets in the water, then that means all of this knowledge is lost. Yep. Do we think, do we think that the algorithm knows about the thefts in critical

[00:06:49] supply? Yeah. I was just thinking about that as I was saying that, like, if, if, um, the voice did know, I'm going to call it the voice now, cause that's what they're calling it in the thing, even though they are calling it the algorithm in the, in the, um, yeah. So it's confusing because when Abby and I were talking about the books and we talk about the algorithm, we're referring to specifically like when the voice showed, like, these are the charts about, you know, when, uh,

[00:07:17] how the silo will do if Juliet lives or dies, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the stuff that we call the algorithm because it's clearly an algorithm, whereas this is like a voice. Um, so yeah, if the voice knew about the only two years left of light bulbs, would the voice help or would the voice say nothing I can do? Yeah. Cause how could it help without giving the game away that there are

[00:07:46] other silos? Well, but at least the, um, the, the people, whoever is talking to the voice knows about the other silos. That's true. That's true. And also I suppose the, the voice could figure out where the, where the, where the stolen light bulbs have gone. Maybe. Yeah. That's the question because, um, uh, a lot of the cameras are out and we know a lot of the cameras that particularly in the bottom

[00:08:13] half of the silo are out because they, you know, like that was one of the things leading up to the rebellion. They're like, uh, Oh, there's cameras out, out, out, out, out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Which is why they can hire, hide Bernard down there in the first place, I guess. So the other thing I'm, the other thing I'm wondering is why can't, like, I get that the silo can't produce things like microchips because they, the whole thing with magnification, but light bulbs don't,

[00:08:42] I mean, unless I'm missing something in the construction of the filaments. I said the filaments perhaps. Yeah. Maybe. I'm not sure how the filaments are done. And we're not talking about, you know, you're screwing light bulbs. We're talking about the, the fake sunlight ones that they use on the farm. So I imagine actually they probably, they probably do have chips. Yeah. I've answered my own question because they probably do have chips to turn them on and off at the correct times. Yeah. True, true, true. Yeah.

[00:09:11] Yeah. And the books they do specify that they're on timers. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this is the episode that Graham Yost showrunner was like, oh, this is, he thought that he was excited for people to see this one. I think, you know, just because it answers so many questions. Yeah. And I do love a, here's what's really been going on the whole time episode.

[00:09:36] I tell you, I tell you what my favorite bit was, uh, the almost father son moment between Bernard and Sims. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was like daddy telling him he was proud of him basically. Yeah. It was, it was, you know, these two, these two, these two terrible men having a moment of humanity with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, even Sims Nard have feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did.

[00:10:04] To some extent at least. Yeah. More so than maybe they showed before in this story. Um, I have to say the one thing about this episode is I, I missed the before time story at first. I was like, oh, this is going to be like, I could see the way the episode was unfolding. I was like, oh, this is all going to be in silo 18 catching up. Okay, fine, fine, fine. So I resigned myself. No before time story. And then suddenly in the last scene, Daniel and Helen pop up and I literally jumped.

[00:10:32] Also that, that, that scene, the very opening scene, the scene in black and white with Shirley and Knox, slow motion running towards the airlock is, is really well done. And the way, the way the fire reflects in, in Shirley, Remy Milner's eyes is really cool. Yeah. So we had the question or I had the question when we were doing our trailer breakdown, is it in black and white for artistic reasons? And the answer is yes. Yes.

[00:11:01] Yes. Yes. Although we like artistic reasons. Although, you know, the, it really, it really, uh, played into the whole silo noir thing that we've been doing for the last couple of weeks. True, true. Yeah. If we have any, I think we have a couple characters that are super cast for silo noir. We, so I, we all seem to agree. Jimmy Stewart is Daniel. Yeah.

[00:11:28] Um, I am insisting that, uh, Catherine Hepburn is Juliet. I don't know why, just I'm a Catherine Hepburn fan and, uh, I don't know. She just gives me Juliet vibe. So I'm insisting on that casting. I, I liked your Grace Kelly as Helen casting. Yeah. I think the others are kind of still up in the air. I think if people want to send in more feedback on this issue, we, we, we're going to, we could, we're definitely going to include it in the next mailbag episode. So yes.

[00:11:57] Put your thinking caps on. We'll, we'll write our treatment and send it to Apple. Or you, Howie. All right. Shall we get into the episode itself? Yeah, let's. Your regularly scheduled breakdown will begin in three, two, one. So this episode was actually mostly quite linear. So we will be going largely in order. Just there were some overlapping scenes at the end.

[00:12:25] We'll talk about one at a time, but we're going to start with, uh, the majority of the story, which is a silo 18 beginning with the big burn. In the episode's opening flashback, we see what happened inside the silo after Juliet returned from her trip outside. As Juliet, Rebecca Ferguson and Bernard, Tim Robbins are trapped in what Sims called earlier this season, a box of fire.

[00:12:48] Surely, Remy Milner, Knox, Shay McRae, and Teddy from mechanical, Olatunji Eofi, race toward them, but are helpless to do anything but watch through a window until the burn is complete.

[00:13:09] But when Teddy points out that Juliet is still moving in there, Billings and Hank run to clear the cafeteria so that Knox can open the door and extract the bodies. The entire silo watches as Juliet and Bernard are lowered to the hospital. Thoughts? Did that go down as you thought? Yeah, it went down pretty much as I thought.

[00:13:31] I thought the mechanics of lowering Juliet and Bernard by like block and tackle to the hospital was really well done, was really well shown. And, you know, my man crush on Knox gets stronger every week because it's like, oh, screw this nonsense. Let's just drill the door. I'm not waiting two days.

[00:13:58] Yeah, so just to refresh for anyone, because this is covered more thoroughly in the books than we've had it covered in the show thus far. But the reason they're burning this room is to purify the airlock after the door has been opened to the outside. Yeah, just to because of that poison air, you know, just to clean it, basically. But of course, the room is supposed to be empty because the person in it is supposed to have gone outside.

[00:14:25] So in the book version of Juliet's return, Juliet knew that she was going to have to face his burn on her way back in. So she actually made a fireproof blanket in Silo 17 and she tried to use it. She goes in and she doesn't know it's Bernard inside there, but she knows there's a man in there. And so she tries to use the blanket to protect them both. But yeah, there's no conversation between them or anything.

[00:14:53] And so the other person she's trying to protect. I read out an excerpt from this scene in the season two book club finale part one, by the way. But the TLDR is Juliet tries to save him with the blanket, but he like kicks away, fights her off and just gets burnt to death. And it's only when the fire stops that she sees it's Bernard and calls him a man who deserves none of her tears.

[00:15:19] But they adore their immediately opens as soon as the fire stops. And so the show version is a door supposed to stay sealed for 48 hours. And I'll say, yeah, probably that's more accurate. Yeah, that makes that makes more sense. Yeah. To how anti-contamination protocols would work. But yeah, but then it's like clear the cafeteria and they're just putting on their little like cloth masks or whatever. And then he takes down the door.

[00:15:47] I'm like, well, that's not going to help protect the rest of the asylum. I hope you figured out a way of putting that door back and making sure that it locks properly once you've done that. Oh, he's from mechanical. I'm sure that's OK. Yeah. But it's funny because they're just like and of course, they're just operating out of panic. But they are just with like the cloths tied over their face and the rest of the silos just leaning over the railing watching.

[00:16:12] But then later they're taking all these protocols like hazmat suits in the hospital wing and all that. Porting the bodies at night. You know what? Well, you know, it was probably it was probably just because I was reading about it before I watched the episode. But it all struck me as very COVID coded. But yeah, like I say, I was I was reading an article before I watched the episode. So I'm not sure whether that's just me or whether that was actually there. It's all connected. Yeah.

[00:16:42] Yeah. Um, did you notice like in this this episode, I started to feel when they start singing this song as Juliet's being lowered here, the bell that rings. It's calling us to our duty here. The voices sing so loud and proud. Praise, freedom's beauty. It's like it's like almost a religious reverence for Juliet. Yes. Yeah. It's again, to compare it with something else. It's very Moadib. Do code it a little bit.

[00:17:10] You know, I think I'm not saying Juliet is the Messiah, but she's certainly starting to take on Messianic characteristics. I mean, but that's the question is, are you the Messiah because you have some, you know, grand design from God? Or are you the Messiah because people just declare you to be so? Yeah. And like of all the people you could think of, the person who would least want to be in that position is Juliet.

[00:17:41] Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, it's interesting too that, so we find out that Bernard is the one who's recapping this to Juliet because he, he was of course unconscious for this part, but he's been more filled in than she has so far because no one's been able to tell her anything. Yes. I assume, I assume Walker and, uh, uh, uh, McClain filled him in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then we get Sims side of the story.

[00:18:10] So as Bernard tells a story to Juliet, Robert Sims, common joins them and with his usual angry charm fills Juliet in on his side of events. After the voice kicked him and his son, Anthony Oscar Coleman out of the vault Sims reassures his son who's still clutching his emotional support. Pez dispenser, that everything is okay. When Camille, Alexandria Riley comes home, she tells her husband that she can't stay long and she can't tell him the things she's learned.

[00:18:40] She asks her husband how much Bernard ever told him about that room or the voice. Sim says he knew Bernard got instructions in there, but no more than that. Camille assures her husband that with Bernard and Juliet both surviving the fire and back inside, the silo is now calm. It doesn't seem that any of the poison got in and no one has tried to open the door to outside since. The rebellion ended with Juliet's return, but there are still threats to the silo.

[00:19:07] Namely, Bernard, Juliet, and Lucas Kyle, Avi Nash. Sims needs to take care of it. Lucas, the lowest priority, he's expected to find and gag and bag before he can speak to anyone. Juliet and Bernard, she says, are the greatest threat, and he should target whomever seems likely to talk first. In the hospital wing, the doctor, Hopi Grace, tells Sims that Bernard is much worse off physically, but he, unlike Juliet, is awake.

[00:19:35] Plastic sheeting and remains bags have been placed in their rooms if they don't make it to contain any potential contamination from their corpses on their way to the incinerator room, 140 levels down. So Sims uses that sheeting to smother Bernard, but before he does, Bernard tells him what he learned from Lucas and Juliet in last season's finale.

[00:19:56] Lucas told him about the safeguard, that quote-unquote they could kill their silo at any time, and Juliet told him there was a way to prevent this from happening. So Sims decides to let Bernard live and has him ported downstairs, but before Bernard can be placed in the incinerator, Sims asks for Martha Walker, Harriet Walter, to hide him. Okay, so yeah, a couple of things.

[00:20:22] Firstly, Alexandra O'Reilly absolutely knocks that scene out of the park. I think she's been doing great work this season. Yeah, and Camille is becoming a much more rounded character as well as a much more important one.

[00:20:39] And I think in this scene you really get the tension between Camille as Robert Sims' wife and Anthony's mum and Camille as head of IT. Remember that Bernard has no family to speak of. And so all he ever had to think of was the greater good of the silo.

[00:21:07] His relationship to the silo and indeed to the rest of humanity from his point of view was actually quite an abstract one. The only person we've seen him have really strong personal feelings for is Judge Meadows, and he did kill her at the end of the day. So I think having a head of IT that has a family brings a really interesting dynamic to the show.

[00:21:39] I might misremember this, but I thought in season two, episode 10, when Bernard and Juliet bump into each other and that tunnel shaft that leads from the top of the silo to outside, Bernard says something to the effect of, I know who, talking about the algorithm, when it said they could kill us all. But I don't know why. So that to me indicates that Bernard was aware.

[00:22:08] Well, yes, he was aware of the safeguard because it was in the order. No, well, he learned about the safeguard because Lucas told him. Ah, okay. That whole thing, Lucas came upstairs and was like, look like we're having a serious conversation. And then they proceed to have a serious conversation. Yeah, sorry. That was misremembering. Yeah, so that's apparently where he, because he said later this episode that's where he found out about that.

[00:22:34] As far as the fact that these stories are being narrated by Bernard and Sims, apparently, I still have the idea that we're supposed to read them as like absolute narration. Like this is not, I just have to think like this because especially in, for instance, the Vampire Lestat and other interview of the vampire stuff, it's all unreliable narrators. But here, I think they're just, what we see is actually what really happened. Do you have the same sense?

[00:23:04] I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think it's more of a framing device in this case. Yeah, it did occur to me. I'm not, I'm not sure, to be honest. I, I'm sort of waiting for, for the rest of the season before I make a judgment on that. Okay. Um, I do think, I do think a lot of what they said was true. Yeah, I'm taking it as literal unless I hear otherwise, because it seems it matches up with what I expected.

[00:23:34] And it seems, yeah. Okay. And also because there's things like, like Bernard only knows about, you know, the, the thing that happened when they were rescued from the burn room because he was told himself. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So as far as why Bernard, Julia and Lucas are considered threats to the silo, it's like they know things that could threaten the silo. But like this made me go on a rant in the notes, just spitballing here.

[00:24:03] But what if the voice just talked to them and they had an honest conversation about saving the silo together? But I guess it just goes. Yeah. I don't know. Like I, from their end, I understand why they don't trust the voice. Yes. Um, also I'm not sure I buy the argument that Lucas Kyle is the least of the threats. Yeah. Given that, given that he knows about the, given that he knows about the safeguard, I would say there are all three of them are equally important. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:33] Because he knows pretty much. I mean, presumably Bernard knows the most. Yeah. But I would say Lucas Kyle knows more, knows more about, knows more of the context. Does the voice have a camera in the hallway where Bernard and Juliet were talking before like the hallway to outside? Like does the voice know about that exchange of information where she said, I know a way that we can maybe stop the safeguard? Yeah. That would make them a higher priority.

[00:25:03] Yeah. Well, yes. That would explain why they're a higher priority. So yeah, probably. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. The tension between Robert and Camille in this scene is like so complex. Like, first of all, it's like things I can't know. That's what you're telling me. It's like, but then also she says to him, and this is really like, Oh, makes, made me cringe. Both times I watch this. We both know this isn't the first time the head of IT has asked you to handle a problem for them.

[00:25:33] I'm like, Oh, so first of all, did she know about this before? Or did she just learn this from the voice? Like, did she know that her husband was a hitman when he was being a hitman? Or did the voice just tell her like, Oh, by the way, your husband, he's been cleaning up stuff for Bernard. I think she probably knew in general that, uh, Sims had killed people, but I think the voice probably filled her in on the who and the how the specifics. Hmm.

[00:26:03] It's still, it's like still a very awkward exchange because it's sort of like, she's pulling rank already to make him do something reprehensible. It's like, yes. Yeah. Yikes. And like, yeah, this marriage in season one and two look like really strong. Um, you know, like a real power couple. Um, you can definitely see the foundation starting to crack a little bit. Hmm.

[00:26:32] Um, I say Sims seemed to be taking out some frustration on Bernard when he was wrapping him with his burns. There was no gentle wrapping there at all. I mean, I don't think Sims decided not, I think Sims sort of decided almost on the spur of the moment not to kill him. I think that scene could have gone, could have gone, could have gone the other way. Yeah. If Bernard didn't say Juliet told me there's a way to stop this or whatever. Yeah.

[00:26:59] I don't know that he would have gave, given him that breathing hole. No. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I guess now we know why they're talking about the incinerator going for days because it, well, I mean, I'd say on the one hand, there's no one keeping close tabs on exactly which bodies go in. But there was also when they got down there, like Sims had to mime, like, no, I'm totally sending the body in. Bye. Bye. Everyone gone. Okay. Stop. Why are you, why are you smiling? It's the drugs.

[00:27:30] Yeah. Yeah. In the, um, in the season two finale breakdown, I did a little, uh, tease from the, uh, I did a little excerpt from the book, um, about another plot line in the past. It's not in this show about this character mission we bring up sometimes about him traveling, uh, hiding in a body bag and just how abjectly miserable of an experience. Yes. Even without having your body covered in burns. Yeah.

[00:28:00] So yeah. Bernard was not having a good time. And also like the, yeah, those quarters were not particularly gentle. No. I mean, why would they be right? Yeah. Cause they think they're handling a corpse. Right. A heavy one at that. Yeah. Um, and so we finally, I know people were worried about Carla played by Claire Perkins that, um, where is she? Uh, and it turns out she really did just want to stay with Walker.

[00:28:29] But she's not sleeping in this quote unquote shell. I wonder if they, cause later we see them in the workshop. So I guess she did just stay there. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. I mean, also getting new housing can't be particularly easy in the asylum. So no, you're probably, you're probably play. You're probably paying dead man's shoes actually, which is a bit macabre. What's that? Well, you, you move into an apartment when somebody else dies. When somebody else vacates it.

[00:28:57] Cause like you can't build a new apartment. So like you're living with, you're living with your parents until somebody dies. I imagine. Well, it's also, yeah. Like, um, we learned in season one when dear darling dead Doris, Patrick Kennedy's wife died. They lost their apartment. He was downgraded to like a single apartment. And yeah, that's why people thought he lived there when he didn't anymore. Amundsen and his stapler planted.

[00:29:27] He didn't, he found the stapler. He didn't plant it. Um, yeah. And, and, uh, but I, I was a little like Walker when she's, she said she didn't want to go up to medical because I'm not a doctor. I can't do anything for her. I was like, that's not what visiting people in the hospitals for Martha. It's not, you're not supposed to doctor them. You visit the little shop, you buy him some flowers, maybe some chocolates. And then you go and sit there and talk to them for a little bit. Yeah.

[00:29:55] Not that she would have been allowed anyway, apparently as we learned from Shirley, but still. Um, but she, uh, but I do think, and this was echoing what 13 year old Juliet said when she went down to mechanical in the first place down here, there's plenty to keep me busy. Yep. So distracted basically. Yeah. I'm thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. I do love all the calling out of Simpson Bernard that goes on in this episode. All very deserved.

[00:30:24] Like to, I love it as soon as like, and I love blunt people in general. Like I just, yeah, just let's just be straight with each other. Come on people. Um, Sims walks in Walker and Carla are like, what makes you think we'd lift a finger? We hate you. But of course, keeping Juliet alive is good motivation. So who do you want disappeared?

[00:30:51] And then it's like, oh yeah, it's the person you probably most hope it's not. Yeah. Um, okay. Let's take a quick break here. And when we come back, let's talk about all the other shenanigans that have been going on for the past three months. All right. The making of a mare.

[00:31:10] Martha and Carla meet Sims in the incinerator room to collect Bernard, but they tell him if anything happens to Juliet, they'll tell Camille that her husband betrayed her and finished the job of incinerating Bernard. But Sims has already been working on project keep Juliet alive. He asked a rabble rouser he's hired before to infiltrate the singing group of ready to be fanatics to whip them up into a frenzy directed at making Juliet the new mayor.

[00:31:36] In the now closed off, quote unquote, for public safety, digger void, Martha begrudgingly feeds and takes care of Bernard. Bernard has now told her the truth about the other silos. When Sims comes down to tell them Juliet has now been sworn in as mayor, Bernard says that must mean they've started her on the forgetting drugs so that she forgets about Silo 17. But Sims knows that she'll permanently lose her memories if she's on them too long.

[00:32:04] Bernard, though, knows from the order that artifacts from her life would help her get her memories back. And Sims announces that he has an idea and the scene cuts. I have an idea. Light bulb. No, sorry. They're low on those. Don't you? Yeah, we can't waste those.

[00:32:25] Yeah, so Sims, we hear that he was down there for so long because he was supposed to be in quarantine after the Bernard transport, which is just like he's still obviously just wandering around talking to other people. But it makes me wonder who else was placed in quarantine. Like were those porters? Yeah, I'm going to say that those six porters are probably in a hostel. Hostel? Yeah, probably in a hostel somewhere, you know, just waiting, just waiting for like 48 hours to pass. Yeah.

[00:32:53] But yeah, if Sims knew that if Sims kept Bernard alive to find out how to block the safeguard, he obviously already knew he needed to keep Juliet alive because Bernard said she's the one with the information. But it was this is a book difference in the book. It is the masses who just decide on their own that they want Juliet as mayor. There's no manipulation needed. But here he Sims doesn't leave it to chance. He gets someone to instigate it.

[00:33:20] And when I looked up who it was, his name is credited as Heckler Pike, played by Nathan Clow. And he was also one of the hecklers that Bernard hired in season two, episode two. I love those little bits of continuity. The silo's good at them. Yeah, yeah. Because there's, I mean, 10,000 people is a lot of people, but it's not an infinite amount. So it makes sense. Yeah, it's not an infinite amount of people. Yeah. Makes sense. People come back. And actually, you know, you know what?

[00:33:49] This is more subtle than I would have expected from Sims. Like Sims is not dumb, but also you tend to give him a problem. He'll run straight out of the simplest and most kinetic solution. But this was actually, this was actually quite sort of, maybe Sims would have made, maybe Robert Sims would have made a decent head of IT actually. Because this is actually quite subtle. Yeah.

[00:34:12] I mean, I guess he learned, he learned from Bernard's for sure, because this is definitely the sort of, I mean, he literally used Bernard's contact in that regard. But this is definitely the sort of thing that Bernard would have done the solution. Yeah. Also, there's a nice little detail that people are taking drawings of their relatives because there's no photography in the side. So I assume that was taking drawings to like the, the, the morgue or I had a, or IT said, look for missing people after the rebellion.

[00:34:42] Yeah. I mean, so we, we see, uh, there's a woman with a drawing of Juliet that, um, Heckler Pike helps himself to, although he pays her, he does pay her. Um, but I presume that was a sort of not worshipful. I didn't, I didn't realize it was Juliet. Yeah. I just thought it was, I just thought it was a person. So yeah, scratch what I just said. No, but I think you're, you're also right about that.

[00:35:08] And we also saw like, for example, yeah, that with, with Marns and, uh, Mayor Johns that, um, he had a drawing of her or something. And he said he was going to set up a drawing stand in the market to retire. That sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So Heckler Pike says, we need a mayor, don't we? And if we don't choose someone, then no, they'll choose for us. We need someone we can trust. Someone who went outside and came back. Like, well, that's getting specific.

[00:35:37] I wonder who that could be. We need someone named Juliet. Um, by the way, I kind of love, I mean, I said this in another way, but I love the back and forth between, between Martha and Bernard, which she's cooking him food. It's not burning. You burned it last time. Maybe you're a little sensitive to things being burnt. Yeah.

[00:36:06] I just, damn, Walker, for goodness sake. Like, oh, the man, the man is, the man is lying here in pain, you know? Also, that, that scene. But he did laugh. He did laugh. That scene with the, the Heckler really reminded me of that scene in Monty Python and the Harvest Crow. You're all individuals. You've all got to figure it out for yourselves. Yes, we are all individuals. I'm not. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:37] Um, okay. We, we, we got to talk a bit about this, this radio thing with Martha that's going on for a while in this episode. Um, we see that Martha starts asking Bernard about the other silos radios. Like why can't, if the other silos have their own radios, why can't we hear them? Bernard's like, oh, well, they're all on different channels, you know? Um, and he's like, okay, bring me a radio. I'll show you what I, what I know about it.

[00:37:02] And, um, so we see her coming back to this a couple of times in the episode where she's like, ah, 50 silos all given the same radio, each one using a different frequency. And she's pulled one apart and is looking through a magnifying glass on it. And, um, you can see there's two numbered dials inside and she's like messing with those. So presumably the numbered dials are how you set which silo to talk to. Yeah.

[00:37:32] So I once read an anecdote that in North Korea, when you buy a radio, uh, somebody at the shop sets the radio so it can only receive like the official broadcast. Ah. And then people, and then people will come around periodically and. Jailbreaking. Check. Oh. Yeah. That it's that you haven't, that you haven't done that. So yeah.

[00:37:59] I just thought that was an interesting real world parallel. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, I guess they would, no one would think to check in this case, right? Like, and what is the voice going to do? Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to it in a bit, but I'm really interested as to the nature of silo one, but we'll get to it when we get to it. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we can talk about it. Well, it'll come up again later, but it's okay. Okay.

[00:38:26] So basically, um, Walker says she turns, she's tuned the radios to another silo's channel so they can talk without anyone listening. I'm like, okay, well, first of all, that means the other silos hear you then? Like, uh, that could be interesting. But then Bernard warns her, silo one monitors all of the active frequencies. So use it sparingly and in code.

[00:38:49] And, um, so silo one is presumably later when, you know, she, Martha is telling, uh, Sherlock's about the whole situation. And Knox is like, and one of them can kill us. That's obviously what they mean. Yes. Yeah. But what I'm wondering is, is silo one the algorithm, the voice, or is silo one another group of people who just happened to know more than the other 49 silos?

[00:39:21] Oh yeah. You can't say anything. I do know what silo one is. Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're asking questions. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Um, yeah, I will say that this radio stuff actually started later in the show than it did in the books, but, um, it will be the topic of this week's book club is radio stuff.

[00:39:50] Um, I noticed, yeah, just a couple other little things. The light next to Bernard's bed seems to operate as an alarm we see when Sims enters. So it's like their warning. So, um, and then we also get in this scene confirmed that relics are indeed potential artifacts who's, but then, okay. So here's the question. If, you know, if relics are forbidden because, well, we know, of course, on the one hand, relics are forbidden.

[00:40:19] If they might make people want to go outside like that book, I understand what that book was for. Yeah. Forbidden. But the Pez dispenser. Yeah. I can understand that would be a potential artifact for someone. We see it work as such for Juliet later this episode. And, and Sims says he was hoping it would be for his son and blah, blah, blah. But why, why would it be generally illegal other than that?

[00:40:44] Like if this is a really old Pez dispenser, we're led to believe assuming it's the same one in the flashbacks. I'm assuming that what happened is that was written into the pact for the first generation of people to go into the silo. Mm-hmm.

[00:41:01] So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sort of guessing that the first generation of siloisms were given the forgetting drugs, maybe at the facility that, that Charlotte is being treated at. Hmm. And therefore, when they entered the silo, they had no memory of their lives before entering the silo. Mm-hmm. Um, and therefore it's written into the pact.

[00:41:30] The thing about relics is written into the pact for that reason. And it just, it was just grandfathered in. Yeah. It was just grandfathered in. Okay. It was, it made no sense to change it. Like if you change it, you start out, you get people asking questions. Yeah. And like the one thing the pact is designed to do is avoid people asking questions. Right. And so why do you think, um, they would forget to dose everyone going in for compliance or? Yeah.

[00:41:58] For compliance or yeah, maybe that was the only, maybe that was the only way to get them to agree because you couldn't, you couldn't, you couldn't manhandle 10,000 people into the silo without, without causing a big enough ruckus that people would notice. So you, they'd have to be, they'd have to either want to go into the silo or be docile. Hmm. Um, although it's not like, it's not like the drugs make either Charlotte or Julia particularly docile.

[00:42:28] No. Yeah. But that's a, yeah. Or maybe just to, um, to like, if they have to live underground, it's better for them not to remember what they've lost perhaps. Yeah. Probably. Maybe, maybe even a kindness in a way. Yeah. It probably is. Yes. I certainly think you can make that. You can sort of rationally make the argument that it would be a kindness. Hmm. Well, speaking of these relics, we, we have the relics trader back.

[00:42:57] Um, other than you, obviously Sims approaches Regina, Sunita Henry, pushing her to get back into the relics trading business to collect artifacts that used to belong to Juliet. He also asks her to slip nurse Amy, some sugar pills via an intermediary, uh, pills that Amy can use to replace the memory drugs. She is supposed to be giving to Juliet. Sims says that Regina has a choice and he's not threatening her or anyone around her.

[00:43:27] But I, neither Regina nor I liked the way that Sims was holding that cat. No, it was, it was very Bond villain-esque the way he was holding that cat. Um. Can we point out it's a totally different cat than, uh, season one, was it? Yes. Yeah, it was. Yeah. But that happens. Okay. Maybe her cat passed on. RIP kid. Yeah. This is the, this is the problem with going back and rewatching the show before, um, before you record the podcast.

[00:43:55] It's like, yeah, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. It's not even close to the same. Yeah. Not only is that a different cat. It's like, it couldn't be a more different cat. Yeah. Cause the other one I recall was like, like a Maine Coon looking cat. Yeah. And this one was, um, what do they call it? Tuxedo cat. But anyway. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm taking it that it was meant to be a different cat. Yeah. No, that can absolutely happen. Yeah.

[00:44:21] Maybe if something happened to her poor kitty and yeah, she was trying to get her cat to eat. Maybe the cat was on its last days then. Yeah. Yeah. But it was also like the other, my other question about this is when she walked up, the door was open and he's like, Oh, you left your door open. I was like, I don't think so. Sims. I'm pretty sure you did that to scare her. You can't stop being you. Or you are just, you are just using. Or is, is it just, he can't help but be ominous.

[00:44:51] I mean, I mean, Sims is a big guy. He is a big physically imposing guy. And I think the beard doesn't help. True. And just like, he has a gruff way about him. And I know, I know people who have a gruff way about them, but are actually, you know, the most kind people, but they just, yeah. When you first meet them, you're like, why are you mad at me?

[00:45:18] And the music didn't help because they definitely had some tense music. But yeah, just, just in general, Sims, I'm asked, just asking if you will help hit differently when you're glancing at the cat, you're holding hostage while saying it. Though he does hand it back. And then he gives her something more than that. Actually, she asks if his wife knows what he's up to now that she's the head of IT. And he says that she doesn't. So that's a threat that she has over his head.

[00:45:48] Yes, that's true. Yeah. But I'm going to take my internet points from episode one. Regina did collect the dog toy on purpose. Yes. Yeah. Well, once a trader in relics, always a trader in relics. Well, if Sims makes you. Yeah. Yeah. And so she asks for 10 fake Juliet sheriff's badges to trade for these artifacts. And Sims says he got them from a craftsman in the workplace who owes him.

[00:46:17] And Bernard says, you mean he's afraid of you? Bernard's like, he he he he he. But yeah, so the pills. Some questions about that. So he says, granted, she wants to know, is it poison? He's like, no, it's just sugar pills. She's like, what are they replacing? He's like, it's best that you don't know. Okay. I guess he gave her enough to like, not feel bad about it, really. But just telling her it's sugar, not poison. So it's probably replacing something worse.

[00:46:47] And then later, I imagine she could see Juliet was not herself. So she was she probably was able to put two and two together. And this is this is the from the voices point of view. This is the problem. And this is why we're sort of hurtling towards a safeguard. But too many people know too many pieces of the puzzle, especially after this episode. There's only there's only there's only sort of Juliet, Lucas and Bernard that can see most of the picture.

[00:47:16] But there's lots of people now that have got bits and pieces. So, yeah, like. We are very much in a race between the vitamin D12. Well, this has been true since the beginning of the season, but I think the safeguard is now very much ahead of the vitamin D12.

[00:47:34] Because I think I could well see like the opening episode, the opening scene of the next episode being the algorithm saying to Camille something to the effect of it's gone too far now. Sorry, you've been safeguarded. I do wonder if the next episode, since this episode was so heavily this timeline, if the next episode they'll do some catch up on because they left it. We'll get to that at the end. Yeah, it was. It was a clear fire.

[00:48:02] I want to know what's good. I want to know what's going on with Solo and the kids. I want at least a couple of scenes. Well, at least Julia remembers him now. Yeah. So that's step one. But okay, about the pills. Why couldn't Sims approach Nurse Amy directly? And then I'm like, and who's this intermediary that he's talking about? And why do they need an intermediary? And then I thought, maybe it's Gloria because Gloria is George's aunt.

[00:48:32] So Regina, George's ex, would remember him, her, presumably. So maybe this is a way to bring Gloria back in and find out what happened to her? Am I painting clown makeup on my face? I think this is motivated reasoning. I think you're clutching at straws there, Alicia. But I will say you've had a very good record this season of predicting characters' returns

[00:49:01] and saving dead cats, bringing characters back from the dead. So why not Gloria? I thought you said saving dead cats. I was like, no, because it's a different cat. Yeah, okay. But I've been asking for Gloria for three episodes now. So we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. And then we also learn in this scene, and this makes sense, that they had to delay the swapping out of the pills because they needed the memory drugs to work at first so that Camille

[00:49:28] and the voice wouldn't notice when it stopped, wouldn't suspect Sims. But then they needed to find that sweet spot where they replaced the memory drugs with the sugar pills before it became too late and the memory loss would become permanent. And then, yeah, this is where they're like, we almost left it too long. Yeah. That, that, that, that, when they explained that, because like before we got there, I

[00:49:55] was thinking, well, why, why didn't you just replace the pills from the get go? But once they actually explained it, yes, that makes sense because the algorithm would just have gone, oh, she, she's one of the 10% it doesn't work on. So yeah. Yeah. Push her off the, push her over the stairs basically. Yeah. Yeah. And then this is the part where I went back to like, why can't they just reason with the voice? But then I'm like, oh yeah, they can't tell the voice that they want Juliet to remember

[00:50:23] because they want Juliet to remember how to stop the safeguard. Yeah. That's, that's the, um, that's the voice's whole deck of cards basically threat of extinction that it holds over the silo. Um, and this is also where we got, you referred to this earlier, the, the father son moment. We can't risk losing you, Robert. Um, yeah. So we get Bernard finally sees him as essential and tells him he's impressed.

[00:50:52] He says, you would have been a great shadow, but I'm glad I didn't give you the job. Being head of it is a brutal, thankless, impossible task. It's no better for the shadow. The things that fucking voice in the vault made me do. I thought the greatest risk was from some fool trying to open the door. Camille has it far worse. They had to tell her about the safeguard and she can't speak about it to anyone.

[00:51:17] I imagine she's burning alive from the inside, which is honestly more empathy than I thought Bernard had in him. But I, yes. Yeah. I suppose he can imagine that best because he was like, he can imagine himself in that position. Yeah. No, that was, that was, that was more empathy than I thought Bernard was capable of, but it also is a little bit self-pitying. Bernard as well.

[00:51:42] And it's also, he's also deflecting responsibility for what he did onto the voice, which yeah, the voice, the voice carries some of the blame, but you, you're the one that did it, Bernard. Yeah. True. True. Yeah. He went through with it. All right. Finishing the story, uh, caught back up to the present day, Robert and Bernard tell Juliet that the plan was to have her talk to Bernard via radio.

[00:52:07] So as to not attract unwanted attention to the digger void itself, where Bernard has been hiding. They confirmed Juliet's dream about her and Bernard in the airlock was real, a memory. And Bernard confirms that he indeed was ready to go outside to die until he spoke to Juliet and she told him there might be another way to prevent the safeguard. But of course, Juliet doesn't remember what she meant. And Martha fills Shirley and knocks in on what she knows about the 50 silos in the safeguard,

[00:52:37] telling them this must remain a secret for the safety of the silo. She's only telling them now because she needs their help. Juliet going down to the digger void might lead Camille down there. So they need to move Bernard. In the meantime, Lucas and Patrick Kennedy, Rick Gomez complete their trip down to the digger void via trash chute, looking for Juliet. While they're bickering about matches, Sims ambushes them and tells them to keep quiet.

[00:53:04] I just, you know, you know how I want my happy days prequel show with, um, With Ellison and Halston. Yeah. Yeah. I also, I also want Patrick Kennedy and Deirdre Doris to, you know, show off as well. Because they could be their neighbors. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because like Patrick Kennedy is just him and, him and Lucas are just like such a great odd couple. Yeah.

[00:53:33] Patrick Kennedy is, he's been like an odd couple with, well, it's been mostly him and Danny, I guess, but, um, he, yeah, he does have that great odd couple energy. We also had the tension between him and Billings last season. But yeah, I mean, this makes me question like Juliet was looking for Bernard and Sims knows that when Sims founder in the boiler room, he should have just yelled out, Bernard wants to talk to you. Yeah. It would have made us so much easier.

[00:54:01] Although from our viewing perspective, like we want her to go down there, of course. And, and I imagine like if they want her to remember things, they, I guess they would have brought her down to mechanical, but not necessarily the digger void, but if they want her to remember things, they should absolutely, of course, bring her to mechanical. Cause that's where she spent the most of her life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, this is where Knox says, so there's 50 silos, but there's one that can fucking kill us.

[00:54:30] And, um, Martha has no idea how they do it, but knows they can. Um, we'll talk about the mechanism more in a moment. And this is also where we get that exchange between Martha and Sherlock's, I have to move it. And it's not light. How much does it weigh about two 50 and it's a pain in the ass. And then Knox immediately figures out who must.

[00:54:55] But Bernard, you know, he, he understands why Sherlock's hates him and doesn't, you know, he, he doesn't, uh, begrudge them that at all. He said for 25 years, I did what I was told I had to do to keep the silo safe. And so Shirley's like, Oh yeah. Remember how that included murdering the judge, framing us and telling the rest of the silo to kill us. And he's like, yeah, sorry. I don't expect you to forgive me.

[00:55:21] You were both caught in the middle of an unfortunate circumstance and basically says he wouldn't be offended if they dropped him while moving him. Unfortunate circumstance, Bernard. Unfortunate circumstance. Under framing of the year. Yeah. Also, um, this is a good place. I need to say this, the makeup for Bernard, Tim Robbins, this episode was really good. I was, I was looking also at like the burns on Juliet's neck and stuff and thinking like,

[00:55:49] yeah, that's, that's some subtle makeup, but that has to be applied every scene for her. And obviously also like the tattoos on her fingers and stuff. Um, yeah, that's some good, subtle, realistic makeup work in general in this show. Yes. So bravo to the makeup team. Um, okay. And then we see Knox is actually pretty gentle when he goes to help Bernard into his jacket. So it shows like, yeah, there's a kindness in Knox there. Even, you know, the guy, it's not like the guy he punched last episode because he was like,

[00:56:19] we should have put you in with the gunpowder and let you burn. This is a, he's at least Bernard showing some sort of contrition. You know what? I, I, if he, if Knox and Shirley have a baby, Knox is going to be an excellent dad. Yeah. I bet he would. I bet he would. But okay. Question. Where are they moving Bernard? Somewhere where they're lifting him. Presumably not just up the middle of the silo because that would be pretty noticeable. So what's the plan?

[00:56:48] Where else can they go? Walker's workshop maybe. Yeah, maybe. But then I don't know. I feel like that's too open and would they really? Yeah. I don't know. Well, I'm just, I'm just thinking if they're going to be messing around with the radio, they might need to move him where they've got a bit more equipment. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. And yeah, I'll take my internet points for the last episode.

[00:57:19] They did. Lucas and Kennedy did travel via trash shoot shoot. Like we saw Juliet take Patrick and Danny on in season one. You are on a real hot streak at the moment. I've been watching this show too closely. Lucas says in this scene, he learned in the mines to keep his cool, which on the one hand, I'm like, oh, he's like, why? So the big bad bullies don't pick on you? And he said, no, because there's no point. I was like, oh, that struck a chord.

[00:57:49] That's a lesson a lot of us learn during quarantine. There's no point in getting upset. But I did also just think that Lucas was pretty relatively chill in the first place. He would have this kind of quiet panic when Juliet was like, here's a red level relic. I want you to help me break into or, you know, Bernard sending him to the mines. But he was never, he's not a fly off the handle. No, he's not, he's not, he's not a fly off the handle guy.

[00:58:18] The other incident where he got like a bit sort of, a bit sort of shook was when Sims came in in the end of season two with a gun and held him and his mom hostage. Yeah. But I just wonder, you know, is Lucas sort of holding it all in? I just wonder like when he next time he meets the algorithm, whether it's going to all come pouring out of him. Hmm. All right.

[00:58:46] Let's take our last break here. And when we come back, we're going to talk about some memory games, the not so good in supply situation and Daniel and Helen hitting the road. Now that the gang is all together, Martha, Juliet, Sims, Patrick, Lucas, and even Regina convene in Martha's apartment for a game of show. And Juliet tells Juliet, Juliet digs through a box that includes the stuffed dog from her

[00:59:15] brother, a toy we saw her give Shirley when they were teenagers. A page from the Georgia guidebook that Billings burned. Each shakes loose a memory, but not the safeguard related memories they are looking for. When Lucas learns what they're doing, he suggests they find something related to Juliet's ex-beau, George Wilkins, Ferdinand Kingsley. Lucas knows from the voice in the digger void door that George is one of the only people who

[00:59:41] had made it down there, along with Salvador Quinn, the head of IT during the rebellion 140 years ago and now deceased ex-shadow to the head of IT turned judge Mary Meadows. Patrick also remembers Juliet's attachment to George from seeing the video George made for her on the hard drive at the end of season one. In that video, George had said something about finding a door. Regina, George's ex, that was funny, Lucas is like, you know him too? Like, yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:10] Chips in that he spent a long time looking for that door. She says she wanted to get his watch with the other artifacts, but she believes Papa Nichols was wearing it when he blew himself up. But Martha knows that he actually gave it to Deputy Hank before that. Hank brings the watch saying Pete Nichols had wanted him to return it to his daughter if he ever could, but Hank held onto it because Juliet wasn't herself when she got back.

[01:00:36] With the watch in her hand, Juliet's memories of George come flooding back, but still it's not enough. As Sims tells her it's time for them to head back upstairs, Juliet asks if there is anything else on the stairs. Sims thinks of the Pez dispenser, which his son had given back to him a few episodes ago. That does the trick.

[01:01:14] It's becoming something of a feature of this show that the Raiders turned up five minutes late to everything. I mean, Juliet's swift afoot. And there is that gap in the stairs. It was like that last moment between Sims and his wife. They're staring at each other across the gap. How do you think he's going to play this to her? Is he just going to come clean or is he going to like come up with a story? I don't know how he can come clean.

[01:01:40] If he comes clean, the voice is going to tell Camille to have him killed or sent out to clean. There's no way around that. Or immediate safeguard. Or immediate safeguard. And this is the thing.

[01:02:03] If the voice did that, Robert Sims would go because the alternative, like you say, is the safeguard and that means Anthony is killed. Mm-hmm. And yeah, the one thing that's going to persuade you to go outside is a threat to Anthony. True. So he's going to have to try and bluff it. But how? I have no idea. Yeah. It was, I did have the feeling that Lucas was a little relieved that the others know about the safeguard now.

[01:02:32] Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a way, it's certainly a way off Lucas's mind. I also did sort of smile at Patrick Kennedy describing the video with George as a bunch of mushy stuff. Yeah. Well, it's also a weight off Lucas's mind, but now Patrick just learned about like, what? There's somebody who's going to kill us all? Like, yeah, catch up. Catch up, Patrick. I just want to go outside. I just want to see those flying creatures. Yeah. Actually, that's a point.

[01:02:59] Do we think Patrick Kennedy and the outsiders have now realized and accepted that they were wrong? Yeah. I mean, I think now Patrick Kennedy, at least, I mean, Kathleen was already ready to believe Lucas. And I think now Patrick Kennedy, he knows too much to not believe Lucas at this point. Yeah. But that's got to be a hell of a disappointment. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Not only do I not get to go outside, but they're going to kill us.

[01:03:28] But just to, yeah. So to recap what Solo said in the season two finale, he said, we see glimpses of it here. We see that the safeguard is a pipe that pumps in poison and his parents figured out a way to cap it basically. But then I went back to double check this and in the season two finale, they went looking for the pipe on level 14 when Juliet heard the explosion and got distracted and, you know,

[01:03:58] went back to her cello. But so level 14, which is apparently where Jimmy's mom worked, is judicial. Also, when this is probably an irrelevance, but when they, when they capped it in silo 17, where did the poison go? It's okay. It didn't come out one end of the pipe, but it must be being pumped in from somewhere. Like it doesn't just sit there in the pipe. So where did the poison?

[01:04:25] So if the poison like back flowed through the pipe, where did it flow to? Oh, does it backflow? Oh yeah. That's a good question. Can it flow back into wherever it was being pumped from? Like if it's, is it coming from silo one? Can that be thing or is there? Yeah. Yeah. Did you think, I totally thought, or maybe it's just Abby in my head. But when Hank pulled Juliet aside and said that he had, I got some, I got to tell you something,

[01:04:55] Jules, it's just for you. Um, he tells her like, Oh, the, his, her father's last words for her to tell you that he loved you. He wanted you to keep fighting. Never stop being yourself because she's perfect. Perfect. Exactly as she is. It's very nice. But I thought that he was going to be like, I dropped the transmitter. And that's why your father had to tell you. Yeah, no, I thought that was, I thought that was where this is going.

[01:05:20] I think, yeah, because this is the thing, the way Billy Postlethwa delivers it, he sounds guilty as all hell. So yeah, honestly, I think that's what he wanted to tell her, but he just didn't have the guts to do it. I do wonder, like, I hope that they do address that at some point. And I'll say there was something similar in the books. In, in the TV show, it was Knox who turned Juliet in, um, when, when she was going to be arrested to go outside.

[01:05:48] In the books, it was Hank who arrested her because it was literally his job to do so. Okay. And so they're, they like had to have a little makeup, although she wasn't even, when she got back, although she wasn't even mad about it. She was just like, no, I know you were doing your job. It's okay. Um, and then she was like, I'm sorry that I caused a rebellion. And he's like, no, you didn't intend to do that. But it's okay. So I do wonder if, if they're going to have a sim, like she already had that with Knox. Like, well, has she?

[01:06:17] No, but we, yeah, she had it before she went out. She made up with Knox about the whole thing about him turning her in. But I don't know. I don't know. I hope they bring up, uh, I hope for Abby's sake, she'll never get over the fact that Hank dropped the stupid thing. And that's why Papa Nichols had to die. He's still alive in the books.

[01:06:40] I do wonder, like, if Juliet had gone upstairs and not run back down, what do you think Camille would have done? Juliet asks Sims, what do you think she's going to do? And then says he's too tired to push her, Juliet over the rail. Um, but what would like, yeah, I just have a lot of questions right now. And I know a lot of people are, are like, is Camille a bad person? Is she moral? What, how would she handle this?

[01:07:08] What would she think would be the moral thing to do in that situation? Um, I just, well, I mean, this isn't, this isn't the thing. Like, Robert Sims has set a perfect track now because Juliet is the Messiah. So you can't send her out to clean. You can't send her to the mines. You can't push her over the, you can't push her over the rail. Well, I suppose you could push her over the rail and try to pretend it was an accident. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:35] But whether people are going to buy that, I don't know. Especially because it was like, wasn't she in the hospital from the, from the mines? So poisoning. So I'm guessing the best you could do is judicial exclusion and just pretend she's, she's had like a relapse from the, from the, yeah, from coming outside. Hmm. Oh yeah. Because she's also, she's supposed to be in the hospital as far as most people know, because she was poisoned in the mines. Yeah.

[01:08:06] Which again, how's Camille going to explain that? Again, yeah. Where, where, where is this council we saw in episode one? Yeah. And just because we're tracking the Pez dispenser, because obviously it's important in this show. Um, so we, yeah, Sims thought that it could be an artifact to help his son remember him after the vitamin D plus, which I was like, oh, that's sweet. But also just to note, Juliet handed it back to Sims before she runs off.

[01:08:35] So it is back in Sims possession. Yep. So yeah, we, so Sims is okay because he's holding, he's holding, he's holding the holy Pez dispenser. So he's fine. It's the, does it count as a MacGuffin? I don't know. I guess not. Yeah. It's not really a MacGuffin at this point. It's not really driving the plot. It's just there. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, we'll see. We'll see how it comes together.

[01:09:04] It's, I, I have the feeling that it's pulling together elements of the plot. Like we saw it now. We see, yeah, that Sims wanted his son to remember it for whatever vitamin D plus things. We see that it helped Juliet remember the full memories of George and the other silo. So yeah. So we'll see how it continues to be, you know, it's not going well though. It's not all good in supply. It is not all good in supply.

[01:09:32] Carla finally responds to Billings request to meet and she finds him sleeping on her office couch in supply waiting. And he's upset about it. He tells her that he found Orla and she's dead, murdered. Carla thinks it's her fault because she asked Orla to investigate the items going missing from critical supply. These are the items that can't be made in the silo. So when they run out, they're out.

[01:09:57] She confides in Billings that critical supply is already running dangerously low for some items like light bulbs. They have only two years left. I mean, that, that just, I properly squeed at that because yeah. Like even if, even if they avoid, even if they avoid the, the safeguard, they are utterly, utterly. Yeah.

[01:10:22] They're still utterly banjaxed unless they can, unless they can either find the stolen light bulbs or they can find light bulbs from somewhere else. Looking at you, Silo 17. So yeah. Also talking about clear communication, Carla makes Billings go through this long rigmarole of opening boxes and closing boxes and lifting boxes. Just tell him. Just tell him. Yeah.

[01:10:50] Sometimes you got to experience it for yourself. Like this box is super empty. Yeah. But yeah, the back and forth between Carla and Billings, you know, everything all right with your home life, Sheriff. No, there was what, there's a hostel three levels up. Is everything okay? Yeah. Everything all right with your home life, Sheriff. And then I wonder if that's why he, well, he also, again, good, subtle makeup. They made it look like he had barely slept on a shitty couch, you know, and he's looking rough.

[01:11:20] And she says this, everything all right with your home life? And she doesn't realize she's hit somewhat of a nerve. Yeah. Because obviously there's tension with Kathleen joining the Outsiders and Billings having to, you know, keep that a secret, obviously. Yes. So yeah. So he really claps back at Carla. He's like, I told you I needed to see you immediately. This is not immediately. She's like, really? After all we've been through, you're going to play the sheriff card.

[01:11:49] She calls him Paul, not Sheriff Billings. Yeah. So I noticed that. It was very pointed that was. Yeah. But they seem quite over it once they actually get to talking, you know, like there's more important stuff than our petty bickering. Yeah. So those light bulbs, I didn't even think about the fact. So yeah, we had the question about, you know, why is a light bulb featured so prominently in the intro? Well, now we know. Yes.

[01:12:19] And I hadn't even thought about the fact that, of course, it's not just for lights, but that's also how they grow their food. That's actually the most important thing. Yeah. So the silo has been running for 352 years. And McLean says, Carla says that everything in critical supply was put in the silo when the first people went into it.

[01:12:46] So, and they said they had what they were supposed to have about before the fest. She said 20 years ago, there were 70 years of light bulbs left three months ago down to 50. So that's 20 years later. So that's on track now only two years left. So yes, there's, and there's been general theft in supply for years, but yeah, that means that even though, even if there weren't whatever targeting theft of light bulbs,

[01:13:15] there seems to be going on in the past three months, that still means they would have had only 50 years left. Yeah. Which leads me to a question because there's one of two possibilities as far as I can see. Either that was just the maximum capacity of light bulbs and other critical supplies they were able to fit in the silo. So there's only so much you can put in there. Sure.

[01:13:41] Or what were they expecting to happen after 400 years? That is a good question. Yeah. Good question. Yeah. So are we then thinking that the poison in the, that somebody has done like, when the silo was originally built, did somebody do the maths and work out that the poison in the atmosphere was going to dissipate in about 400 years? Give or take. Mm-hmm.

[01:14:11] And if that's the case, then my terraforming hypothesis doesn't hold water. Something else is going on. Okay. Because if you terraform an atmosphere, you are permanently changing it. It would be a permanent change. Mm-hmm. So. New tinfoil head? Possibly. I'm still stuck on the, the, the, what the fuck cloud being aliens because I cannot see what else it could be. Okay.

[01:14:38] Like you can't get a cloud of 50,000 feet. And even if you could, that doesn't explain the oil that got into the aircraft. But is it, well, they, I mean, it didn't look like oil when we saw it on Charlotte's finger. It's like, yeah, it was like black, but it was floaty. Yeah. It was like viscous. Yeah. Well, is it viscous? I don't know. It was floaty. Like oil doesn't, oil coats doesn't float. Yes. Yeah.

[01:15:05] But I still, I still don't, I still can't work out how that could be a, a quote unquote natural phenomenon. So I still can't get off of aliens. Okay. But. I mean, is there any other option other than natural or aliens? I mean, I'm going to say, is it, is it some kind of, is it some, because with the memory pills, is somebody like manipulating people's perception of reality?

[01:15:34] Is there like a related medication that does, that doesn't affect memory per se, but like. So Charlotte was tripping. Yeah. They were all tripping. But in that case. Something blew up the. Yeah. Something, something blew up the aircraft. And in that case, why drag Iran and everything else into that? That doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think, what do you think the connection with Iran is?

[01:16:01] I don't, I don't know because I'm starting, I'm starting to question the whole aliens thing because if it's, if it's the poison will dissipate after 400 years, that's not terraforming. Or why would aliens just stick around for 400 years and leave? That makes no sense. And then, and anyway, how would you be able to work that out? That was what was going to happen. I mean, there is like Occam's razor, which is, it is aliens.

[01:16:30] It is terraforming and we simply can't fit any more stuff. Is that Occam's razor? Into the sideline. Is that the simplest explanation? Well, here's, here's the simplest thing. It's the one that you're stuck in your head. We're through the looking glass here, people. The reverse vampire, the reverse vampires. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:53] So, so I'm a little less sold on the aliens theory now, but I have not, frankly, at this point, I'm just going to let the series progress because my supply of tinfoil has run out. I'm just befuddled at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll talk about a situation where we might get some answers next episode, but just to wrap this up, I did think it was. Interesting.

[01:17:21] I wondered if, if Carla, another reason she wanted to retire and just be with Walker is sort of like this supply situation had her feeling like, well, I better make the most of the time I have left. Yeah, quite possibly. Although, although, you know, if we're taking stock, my opinion of Carla actually went down a little bit this episode. Oh, really? Why's that?

[01:17:44] Well, because, because I understand wanting to make the most of the time you have left, but don't you as the department have a responsibility to work out what is going on? Hmm. Rather than, yeah. So we find out that she, she ditched Glenda in favor of Orla. Basically, she said Glenda is capable but prickly, but basically Carla just trusted Orla more.

[01:18:12] And it's, and her reason for trusting her is she comes from a long line of supply ciders. Like, it's kind of supply ciderist. Yeah. I do love the fact that in the silo society, there is no racism that we've seen. There's no sexism that we've seen. But everybody is very sort of in-group, out-group, depending on, depending on what they do. Humans can't be stopped from in-grouping and out-grouping.

[01:18:41] Yeah, humans can't be human. Humans can't be human. Yeah. And so, okay. So my current theory is still that Mike is the monster, but then the question is just how is he doing it and why is he doing it? And we find out that every item taken from this room requires three kinds of approval and the head slash shadow of supply and attendance.

[01:19:04] So the fact that he was dating both shadows to the head of supply gives him some access, but how does he get through those three kinds of approval? Yeah. Or, you know, slip it out under Glenda and then Orla's noses. Yeah. I don't, yeah. Like, who is stealing this stuff and how are they doing it? And why? Why? Do you want to die? And where are, and also, like, what are you doing with those light bulbs? Yeah, exactly.

[01:19:33] Yeah, because it's not, like, if you use them, people are going to notice. Yeah, and, well, it's also, like, it's very, and I suppose this is humans going to human again, but it's super short-sighted because, as Carla points out, we need them for the food. Although, do the people stealing them know that they can't just manufacture more of them? Yeah, that's, I mean, if you have that kind of access, then if you have a way to access critical supply, don't you know what it is?

[01:20:03] Because I'm thinking the only way this could be done, and, like, seriously, the silo is going to look like Swiss cheese by the time we're finished with it. But the only thing I can think of is that somebody has managed to tunnel their way into critical supply. Hmm. Hmm. Because, yeah, they're not walking in through the front door, and anybody authorized to go in there is going to know how destructive stealing the light bulbs is. But, like I say, what I can't work out is why are you stealing the light bulbs? Yeah.

[01:20:32] Like, you can't use them. You can't sell them. Like, what is the value? Unless, yeah, they're, like, stockpiling them to sell them back when they get rare. But I just, yeah. Food! You're not letting you do it. But if you sell them back, if you don't sell them back, you're going to be as dead as everybody else. Yeah. I just, yeah, what are you using? What could you possibly use them for? What could you possibly want them for? I mean, if you need light, then normally you can just get light bulbs, right? Yeah.

[01:21:01] So, is it somewhere outside the usual realms of the silo? Like, in the mines or something? But then, there's lights in the mines, too. Okay. This is proper tinfoil hat time. And I literally just came up with this this second. What if another silo has run out of light bulbs? Uh-huh. What if they've managed to dig their way laterally, you know, rather than going up and down?

[01:21:29] What if they've broken the pact and dug a tunnel from their silo to silo 18? Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, we need to see more about this digging in the mines and how it's enforced by the pact, the voice, whatever, to... Good questions. Good questions.

[01:21:54] And I'll say, this whole, as far as book connections, the idea of there being a finite number of critical supply stuff is definitely from the books, although it's being used slightly differently. This whole extra thing about the critical supply, somebody's stealing it, is a new addition. So, I honestly don't know. Hmm. Okay. Hmm. Okay. We're going to need... I want to watch the next episode now. I need to know what's going...

[01:22:23] I don't... You know, Daniel and Charlotte and Helen can take a couple of episodes break. No! That's what I need the most. That's the answers, people. That's the answers. All right. Would you have any more thoughts about silo 18 for this week? And then we'll get into Daniel and Helen. No, but I'm like, my brain is going... I won't put any more thoughts in the Discord because my brain is now going a mile a minute. All right. All right. So, let's check in on Daniel and Helen in their one scene hitting the road.

[01:22:53] Daniel, Ashley Zuckerman, and Helen, Jessica Henwick are... By the way, when I first wrote this, I wrote Colleen Wing and then went, nope, nope, nope, nope. Nope, nope, nope. Different show. Different show. Yeah, I wrote it instead of Jessica Henwick. I'm like, that's not her real name. For anyone who doesn't know, that was her character in Iron Fist. Anyway. Also, if anybody's thinking, oh, do I want to go away and watch Iron Fist? No. No, no, you don't. Hey, but season two is better than season one. I'll just say that. Yeah.

[01:23:22] I don't hate it as... Like, okay. The writing's pretty rough, especially in season one. But it wasn't like my least favorite of the Netflix Defenders. Oh, what was? The Defenders. Okay. The crossover show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Anyway, getting back to the top of your hat. So Daniel and Helen are in his shady rental minivan.

[01:23:50] Daniel catching her up on the call he got from his friend Sam last episode. Uh, he has learned that Per Stenson, who will be played by Colin Hanks, was on the Nimitz ship the night of Operation Righteous Vengeance, the operation where Charlotte went down and lost her memory. The Nimitz is usually based in San Diego, but it's been based in Norfolk, Virginia, not far from Washington, D.C. since it got back from Iran.

[01:24:16] So that's where they're going to talk to Sam's contacts there. Except it seems Daniel's shady rental has an unexpected non-optional self-driving mechanism. And now Daniel and Helen are being taken for a ride. Yeah. Yeah. They were, they, this self-driving mechanism, I hope it works properly because they very nearly crashed. Yeah.

[01:24:43] That is because I think it was also, um, in that first jerk, it was because I do think, yeah, rather than I'm saying self-driving, oh, and maybe it is because we learned that Per Stenson is the number one advocate for AI control. Yeah. I'm getting, I'm getting very strong Elon Musk vibes here. Hmm. And he also happens to fund the clinic where Charlotte is because we learned earlier that, um, his mother had Alzheimer's. So that's why he founded that memory clinic where Charlotte's being treated.

[01:25:12] But, um, yeah. So the fact that he is apparently an AI guy and I'll say, this is not a character from a book. Um, Abby and I've been having a lot of speculation about what character this is replacing. And I think, I think I haven't had any idea, but we'll see. Um, but yeah, the fact that he's the AI guy makes me wonder if it is perhaps AI self-driving, but then my, but my initial thought when viewing was someone was just remote controlling it.

[01:25:41] And that swerve at the beginning was just wrestling the control away from Daniel. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. And Daniel, by the way, with Sam's call, he notes that it was weird that Sam was able to call because he didn't know you could get incoming calls in that system. Um, but Sam did two years at the NSA, which we were talking about the NSA last week because hacker Steve apparently got a job at that. What was it? Radford group.

[01:26:11] Yeah. The guy who talked about the guy in the real world who, um, who was the one who like set it up so the NSA could work with external agencies. So I wonder if the NSA is working with this pair Stenson, for example. But the interesting thing is, what do we think that says about, what do we think this says about Sam? If anything at all. Yeah.

[01:26:37] Because maybe, maybe Sam is not the, uh, not the good friend with the conscience we thought he was. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the reason he could call in was because the Stenson guy, um, allowed him to basically. So, yeah, I mean, it is okay. So we know they were heading to this naval station in Norfolk to meet Sam's contact. Presumably.

[01:27:03] So I'm guessing whoever took control doesn't want them to go there. Otherwise they would just let them drive there because that's where they're going anyway and then do whatever there. Um, So who do we think took control? Who, and who planted this car rental? Because what it was that Daniel said he saw on a light post an ad for it. Yeah. And paid in cash. So is this someone who's like, oh, he's going to be needing a car. Let's quick put up these light post ads and only answer if Daniel's the one. Yeah.

[01:27:33] That seems a little bit far fetched. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think it means that it must be someone who's closely observing. Yeah, that's true. Uh, well, Henry. Hello, Henry. You still out there? Sure. Sure. Or yeah. Or, or does Sam have anything to do with this? Um, yeah, maybe. Since he sent them on the road. Does Paris Stenson, Mr. AI guy, does he have my things monitoring Daniel's office or something like that?

[01:28:04] Yeah. Why would he? Yeah. Because Henry, is he working with Henry? Who does Henry work for? Yeah. See, I'm assuming he works for Stenson, but. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I'd assumed political things, but I don't know. Just because you were saying like about the three letter agency sort of thing. Yeah. Mm hmm. I don't know. And then we also find out, yeah, that's the, the other weird thing about this operation.

[01:28:32] Righteous Vengeance is that the other carriers each sent 20 to 30 sorties and the Nimitz sent only one. And this one was the four planes equipped with pre-digital comms. So it seems like the, what the fuck cloud that they encountered, they were expected to encounter. Yes, they were. Yeah. Somebody knew, somebody knew that was there and sent them there deliberately.

[01:29:00] I'm sort of guessing at the moment, I'm sort of guessing to try and work out whether it was possible to, to destroy it, to actually meet it with force. But that, that failed. By the way, just a small thing, just to clarify a sortie, one sortie is one aircraft taking off and returning. Okay. To where it was, to, to where it was supposed to return. Not for. So, yeah.

[01:29:28] So technically, uh, Charlotte squadron didn't complete a sortie. Right. Fair. And, and does it, and if it's four, would that count as four sorties if they did? Yes. Cause you, even though they were together. Yeah. You do it by, you count it by individual aircraft. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I saw someone on Reddit also complaining that they were flying in formation. They're like, you only do that for air shows. Yeah. No, it is, it is a little bit. It is a little bit air show. Yeah. Well, it looks good. It looks good on T.

[01:29:58] Oh, I'll forgive them though. Cause it looks badass. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then just the whole thing where I wanted to bring up back to Sam when Helen was like, well, what changed his mind? Why did he call you? And Daniel's like, I'm guessing Charlotte, once again, Daniel's not asked enough questions. Helen needs to be with him at all times to remind him about questions. Um, but we also learned that Daniel and Sam got shot at together. So it seems like Daniel did see some action.

[01:30:27] We were wondering because he's in the engineering core. Yes. We were wondering that after, after episode one. Yeah. And he said, but still he's rarely heard Sam this scared. So that does actually make me wonder things about Sam even more so because people do things out of fear. Yes. Yeah. So what are we calling the Sims Nard scale so we can put Sam on it? Oh, I think we have to stick with the Sims Nard scale for now. With the caveat.

[01:30:57] Yeah. With an asterisk. Um, I'm putting, I'm putting Sam sort of, I'm still keeping him dead center, but I think he could move towards the Sims Nard end of the scale. Okay. Which, and how are we defining that as, as trust? Yeah. As trust, uh, just trust and being a body, being a robot. Whether or not the person's trustworthy, I suppose. Yeah. Exactly. All right.

[01:31:23] Any more thoughts about this episode before we get into a couple small pieces of feedback? Nope. I think that's it. All right. Now opening the listener feedback channel. So we got an email first from Clay Baxter, who says, hello, Alicia and Luke. I just wanted to start by saying how much I've been enjoying the podcast. Thank you. Um, uh, yeah, he likes the information and preparation.

[01:31:51] Um, he says, I was a little late to the silo party as my wife and I started watching season one during the lead up to season two. As a result, we were able to watch the first two seasons back to back. We fell in love with the show and wrestled with the idea of reading the books or waiting for the entire series to play out first. We ultimately decided that the wait was too long and we read all three books and the short stories after season two concluded. Naturally, after finishing the books, we decided we needed to do a rewatch of the first two seasons.

[01:32:20] As a result, I think I ended up listening to the public feed for both seasons twice. Yay. Uh, you two have kept me company, a company on many commutes. I knew I needed more. So having, uh, read the books, I had to listen to the spoiler cast. I signed up for the season pass for the first two seasons and listened during the break, which I enjoyed very much. This also allowed me to scratch that silo itch while waiting for season three. Needless to say, I am back as a silo's in for season three and those thoughts, uh, that I have had so far.

[01:32:50] None. And I'll say, I did share some of clay's spoiler thoughts in a previous episode of the, of the spoiler cast, but his non-spoiler thoughts. I don't have a lot of thoughts so far, but one question that jumped out to me is who is watching the children of silo. I think he means silo 17. Um, last time I checked the billings. Oh, silo 18. I see. Last time I checked the billings family had an infant that previously never left the arms of Kathleen. Now that she's decided to join the outsiders, that baby is nowhere to be seen.

[01:33:18] Additionally, the Sims kid hasn't been spotted. Yeah. So this was before those episodes where we have seen the kids since, but, um, yeah. As we discussed in a previous episode, there's a robust childcare system. Well, thanks for the question, Clay. And thank you for taking the time to go back and listen to all our previous content. I will say in terms of the preparation, Alicia does like 98% of the work. I just watched the episode a couple of times and rock up here and talk.

[01:33:48] And bring your expertise about the military stuff and all that. So yeah, Alicia, Alicia does the vast majority of the prep. So your thanks should go to Alicia. Oh, thank you. Um, and yeah, Clay, we look forward to seeing how the season plays out as well. I would love to hear from you some more. Sorry. It took me, I was going to save this for the feedback episode, but then I was like, oh, it's, it's getting too far away from it. So let's just, uh, talk about a couple of things now.

[01:34:17] So, um, there was another email from a Kenny G I swear, but not that one. How do you know? How do I know? How do you know? It's not that one. I do know the full last name, but I won't say it because I didn't get permission to, but it is funny. That's Kenny G. Um, Kenny G says, good afternoon. Big fan of the podcast. You talked a lot about the details of Palmer's apartment, but didn't mention that it's possible

[01:34:45] that it's all nonsense, that it's actually Helen's place. Do you think that's a possibility? What do you think? Okay. If it is Helen's place and she put that photograph on the wall, that is an enormous red flag. That is some, that is some epic narcissism. I mean, a lot of people do that, right? They have pictures of themselves up. Just them. But then where did she get the money? Yeah. That's the one thing that Daniel pointed out.

[01:35:12] That does not look like, uh, you know, a floundering journalist who drives a 30 year old sob. And also like just themselves. And like, it's a big picture. Um, yeah. I do hope we meet Palmer. Maybe next episode. Yeah. I think I'm thinking that could be a season four thing. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[01:35:38] Well, that was our listener feedback, uh, bag for now. If, if you have thoughts of your own, please send them to woolshiftdustpodcast at gmail.com. You'll find that linked in the show notes. Um, and as I said, we'll do the next full mailbag after episode six. Uh, but we will probably squeeze in some more feedback like this in the meantime, if you get it in, um, again, book spoilers are okay, but then those elements will be discussed in the book club episodes.

[01:36:06] Um, and yeah, as far as thank you, uh, Kenny G for letting me know that the discord link wasn't working. So I have now updated that in the show notes, uh, and in the discord, we have a forum for silo with separate spoiler chats per episode, plus a separate book chat for book discussions. Luke, I have to ask you an important question.

[01:36:30] Since we spend so much time with silo 18 and we had our silo vendors assemble moment this week. Yeah. Who is, and I know you don't smoke weed, but who is your, so to speak, dream blunt rotation amongst the denizens of silo 18? Okay. I am going to go, I'm going to start off with Walker. Okay. I think Walker would be quite chill.

[01:36:56] Um, I'm going to go, I'm going to go with, does Sherlock's count as one or two people? I mean, you have no max, you can have them both. Okay. So, so yeah, Shirley and Knox, I think that would be quite a funny thing. Um, I am staying well away from Bernard and Robert Sims cause that could get really dark really, really quickly.

[01:37:24] Um, I know, I know she's dead, but judgment, but when she was alive, I think judge meadows judgment, you know, we can eat some chicken. We can eat some mushrooms. We could talk about, you know, the nature of planets, you know, it would be quite good fun. And also Debbie and if I'm allowed to pick from the dead characters, Debbie C. Mahns as well. Oh, I think he'd be quite chill. Yeah.

[01:37:51] Um, I'm going to go with Patrick and Danny for the banter. Um, I think, yeah, Luke, Lucas would be fun for a similar reason. Like you said about judge meadows where, you know, you get him stoned and he'll be like, no, but have you ever considered stars, man? Um, yeah. Uh, let me, let me think. Let me think. Yeah. I think I'm not going to say Juliet because she'll probably get paranoid. Yeah.

[01:38:20] No, no, no, no. Juliet, Juliet would not do well on weed. Camille would be a narc. Um, absolutely. I could see Sherlock's. They could be fun. Yeah. And I could see Martha's chill, Martha and Carla. Yeah. And also speaking of nog, obviously you can't go with Billings. No. Yeah. I mean, as cool as he is, I just think not in that setting. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, that's been our week.

[01:38:46] We have our full weekly coverage continuing for the rest of the season, including weekly extras again in the subscriber feeds. This week's special episode will again be about, uh, the radio aspects of the story and, uh, where, where it goes from here in the book. And since it's already different in the TV show, where we think it might be going from here. Um, there are links in the show notes where you'll find, uh, the Supercast and Patreon feeds.

[01:39:14] There are currently more options for Supercast. I'm working on carving out time to create similar in Patreon. Uh, but in Supercast, you can choose between season passes, which is just a one-time fee for the seasons, season or seasons of your choice, or the regular monthly subscription, which is the same as Patreon. And in Supercast, there's also another option where you can combine it with the subscriber feed for my Star Wars Canon timeline podcast.

[01:39:42] Anyway, if you are a monthly subscriber, then you can also check out extra coverage like holiday specials, my deep dive into Gothic literature, um, other seasonal stuff, and also getting into more Hugh Howey short stories and Dune-related prequel stuff. Thank you so much to the new Silasins over the last week and also the new Season Pass subscribers.

[01:40:09] Um, I will shout out the new monthly Silasins in the next episode, which Luke and I are recording very shortly after this because he's going to be traveling. And, uh, also check out the main Lorehounds feed where we just wrapped up our, the Vampire Lestat coverage. Actually, there's one more episode coming out right after this of a season wrap-up with a deep dive into the music of the season.

[01:40:34] Uh, plus there's ongoing House of the Dragon coverage going on and, uh, Supergirl followed swiftly by the new Spider-Man movie coverage coming to the main Lorehounds feed as well. And, uh, check out, of course, the other affiliates in the network, including Dungeons and Do-Rags, our newest affiliates, where, uh, they're also covering House of the Dragon. Um, never mind the music, where music meets psychology, my own, the Star Wars Canon Timeline

[01:41:01] podcast, and Cosmere Corner is the newest one launching, actually, the day this episode comes out. There's an intro episode and a new Cosmere Corner feed if you want to hear how they're going to be covering. They're starting with the Mistborn series from Brandon Sanderson. Um, so yeah, check that out right now when you hear this, I think it'll probably already be live.

[01:41:27] Um, you'll find, uh, also Luke and I on Discord, on Blue Sky, I'm dabbling on threads a bit, all those links in the show notes. And Luke, tell us about your other podcast. So my other podcast is It Could Be Said, uh, which I do with two friends from university, Will Cooling and Simon Alvey. We did, we pod, we podcast about once a month. Uh, we talk about all things British politics, international politics, culture, sport, and

[01:41:57] whatever else takes our fancy. So our last episode, which we, which was released last Sunday, talks about, uh, the new British prime minister, Andy Burnham, what his first week looks like, what his new cabinet looks like, what his priorities are, and how likely he's able, how likely he's going to be to actually get any of them done. Okay. Um, and also we go off on several very long tangents.

[01:42:25] This, this show should probably come with a health warning. We tend to go off on tangents, but even for us, that episode, like it was, it was timey whimey, probably. Yeah. It went all over the place, but it was, I don't know whether it was a good listen, but it's certainly an interesting one. All right. Any final thoughts on this episode? No, I really want to go and see episode six now. All right. Well, we'll, we'll let you go.

[01:42:51] Uh, in the meantime, I will be checking all phone posts in the neighborhood for shady rental cars. Bye.