John, Aaron, and Richard meet Vin and her crew of thieves. They compare her character development to Kelsier's. Then, they enjoy a classic Brandon Sanderson fight scene.
https://linktr.ee/cosmerecorner
Schedule for Mistborn: The Final Empire
-8/7/2026 - Prologue
-8/14/2026 - Ch 1-5
-8/21/2026 - Ch 6-9
-8/28/2026 - Ch 10-15
-9/4/2026 - Ch 16-20
-9/11/2026 - Ch 21-25
-9/18/2026 - Ch 26-30
-9/25/2026 - Ch 31-35
-10/2/2026 - Ch 36-Epilogue
Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
00:09 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Cosmere Corner, a recap and analysis of the works of Brandon Sanderson.
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm John.
00:14 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Aaron.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Richard.
00:16 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is going to be our coverage for chapters 1 through 5 of Mistborn the final empire.
00:20 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_01]: This episode, we will be meeting the rest of our Thieving crew and also diving into some of the intricacies of Alomansi.
00:29 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to get bonus content or support this independent podcast, you can do so on Patreon, which is linked in the link in the show notes.
00:36 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget, we have a $3 early bird special, where it'll use to be five bucks.
00:40 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get them for three bucks if you're one of the first set number of subscribers.
00:43 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't decided the number yet, so get in now where you can.
00:47 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Spoiler warning, for everything that we've read so far, which is now this week, just chapters one through five of Missborn.
00:54 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So not too much has happened yet on this podcast.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_02]: But more is coming.
00:58 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_02]: A bit of a trigger warning this week for physical abuse as well.
01:02 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get right into it now.
01:03 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So see yourself out if you don't want the spoilers for those few bits of chapters.
01:09 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into how it takes.
01:10 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, what do you think of these chapters?
01:12 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
01:13 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_01]: My biggest takeaway from these chapters is that Brandon Sanderson is a master at weaving in little details that kind of bring you back on a second read.
01:24 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that this book is so much better this second time around primarily because there are so many little details and I can't really talk about any of them in this episode, but I just wanted to make everyone aware that there's a lot going on in here that you won't get the first time around.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great point.
01:42 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else you have?
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_02]: That's it for my hot takes.
01:46 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, how'd you feel about these chapters?
01:49 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I agree with Aaron, of course, so I won't repype that too much, but I really liked the way that he introduced that ceiling visitor.
01:59 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And just because we don't see a lot of it, but we know that they're a threat.
02:03 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to talk more about that later in the episode, but that's really, that's all I got.
02:08 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: How about you, John?
02:11 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I realized when I was reading this because I'm reading it on my e-reader.
02:15 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I realized that I don't think I read this on text the first time.
02:19 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I did audiobook the first time, even though for some reason I had thought the opposite.
02:24 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just learning how every day's names are spelled.
02:26 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just really grateful for this opportunity to learn everybody's names are spelled.
02:31 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And actually, I feel like it's a different vibe.
02:33 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting a lot different things out of it, especially it's been a few years.
02:40 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of the things about this world.
02:42 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And that I think is gonna be a lot of fun because I'm gonna get to rediscover it and you know, Aaron has... Richard, when was the last time you read through this?
02:51 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm rereading it as we're going through it.
02:54 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I guess... Mondays?
02:59 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I mean, before that.
03:01 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But before that, what was your more recent reading?
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The last time I read it would be...
03:08 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like a year and a half ago, almost.
03:11 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's definitely a bit of a bit of it.
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I mean, still much more recent than me.
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I read it in 2020.
03:17 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So this has been a lot of like, I've been deep in storm light recently.
03:22 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read Warbreaker recently, but Ms. Born for me is it.
03:26 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's like riding a bike, you pick it back up.
03:29 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_02]: You're ready to go.
03:30 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We're ready to run through the streets with Kelsey here in Vin.
03:32 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be great.
03:34 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_02]: This was a lot darker than I remembered.
03:35 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say like there was a lot of abuse of Vin that I did not remember even.
03:40 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember that she had been abused, but I thought that that was like a footnote and then we were moved on.
03:45 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's like multiple chapters where we're focusing on how badly the sky trace Vin.
03:50 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:50 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:52 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the same boat.
03:53 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of remember most of the bad stuff
03:59 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: memories or like mentions from her hearing reans voice.
04:02 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think too much of it was like on the actual in like the present I guess.
04:09 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was a good introduction that we got into Vin sort of hearing her brother's voice as this force of chaos or sort of dark intrusive thoughts in her mind a little bit.
04:24 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely something I wanted to see more
04:29 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: is, I mean, I still really love this book and I had a great time with these chapters, but going from Stormlight to this, the more recent books to this, I realized how much Brennan has grown in his writing.
04:39 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This writing does feel a little bit less confident or perhaps it's better to say, Stormlight feels more confident.
04:44 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And you could tell this is one of his earlier books.
04:47 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm excited to see where he goes from Stormlight because he's clearly writing so much that he's improving continuously.
04:54 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's not, or not, Storm White, Ms. Born era three, which is the next, like, chunky's coming out with is going to be, hopefully his best work.
05:04 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really excited to see what he does with, like, the later, almost sci-fi theme.
05:12 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.
05:13 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He, you know, he does a lot of telling and not showing in this book.
05:17 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: more so than in his later book.
05:19 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't remember if that is just in the beginning of this when we're getting introduced to the characters, but I'm hoping that that even's out a little bit through it.
05:28 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_02]: In general, I would say if you're reading this for the first time if you're a new standard stand, you should keep reading if you want him to, you know, if you want to see more show not tell because he does get significantly better at that.
05:40 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for what I remember of these three books because it hasn't been that long since I finished them.
05:46 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He tends to front load a lot of that telling in these books, so if you can get past the first ten chapters, there's not a whole lot of that left.
05:57 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what's what he does like further explain later on is a lot more just side notes kind of or at least it's not so it's not so dense when he's explaining world building and you know character motivation stuff like that it's it's a lot more subtle I guess well let's get right into it shall we
06:23 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a lot going on.
06:24 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got five whole chapters this week.
06:26 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So Richard, you wrote the recap this week.
06:28 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for doing that.
06:29 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to recap the first part of chapter one?
06:32 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
06:33 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So we open up on Vin who's a scat orphan of 16 it working for a feeding crew as she's brought to her boss right before they started their job as expected from the leader of a feeding crew.
06:46 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He does hit her and threaten her a few times before they actually start preparing.
06:51 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Vin uses something she calls luck to dampen, came in's emotions and saves the rest for the upcoming job.
07:00 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Vin, so this is our introduction to her, and we can tell right away, I mean, to me, this, the theme of this set of chapters is betrayal, right?
07:09 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a constant fear of betrayal that Vin has, you know, what, what was your first impression of Vin?
07:16 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're the most recent one to read it for the first time, Aaron.
07:19 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_02]: What was your first impression of Vin here?
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that immediately she presented as a character that
07:27 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of our two main characters, Calcyre and Vin, I was a little bit more interested in Calcyre at first, but that changed really quickly for me.
07:35 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that...
07:36 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_01]: her relationships to the people around her is so much more complex than Kelsey's relationship to the people around him.
07:43 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And that really drew me to her.
07:45 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_01]: She just has so much more going on.
07:47 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_01]: She's a three-dimensional character in a way that some of these other people we haven't met, or some of these other people that we have met.
07:54 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So far, really aren't in the story.
07:56 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And she just has dropped in as someone that could exist in the real world.
08:01 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Brandon did a fantastic job
08:07 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Richard, you're the veteran here.
08:09 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
08:10 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a really interesting mindset to be dropped into pretty much at the start with how distrusting she was of everyone around her.
08:20 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I really thought that her hearing reans voice telling her like, you have to survive on your own.
08:27 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't trust anyone.
08:29 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And she just keeps hearing his voice.
08:33 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It really, I thought it was an interesting way of showing like her ongoing battle with trauma and like dealing with The loss of an abusive brother Yeah, and yeah, at this point in the story, we don't really know what happened to her brother other than the fact that he Sort of dipped right we don't yeah, we know he dipped or or or died or something.
09:00 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't
09:01 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He betrayed, right?
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's Vin makes that very clear.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_02]: He betrayed her.
09:05 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of want to get Nicole from never mind the music on.
09:08 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'll schedule a bonus pot with Nicole.
09:11 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Nicole is a psychology professor.
09:12 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of want to talk to her about, you know,
09:16 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_02]: the way that we internalize abuse and the way that we internalize the messages of our abusers and overcome them.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And because I think that's a lot of vins' arc here, right?
09:25 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Even just in these first few chapters, I'm not spoiling anything going forward, is just this, you know, these lines of rein going through her and kind of dictating how she acts in most situations, right?
09:38 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Do they hurt distrust of people, her guardedness, and you
09:43 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_02]: came in obviously as her immediate abuser, but I almost feel like the renoons wake a way deeper.
09:50 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's so important to remember that Vinet this point is 16 years old and her reaction to all of this trauma and her life is to immediately close everyone off and it's really tragic to see
10:04 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: a young person so broken in that way.
10:08 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So emotionally closed off from being able to connect with anyone, not that she really has anyone to connect with at the beginning of this story.
10:15 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Her only companions are thieves and murderers.
10:21 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, something that stuck out to me and we are three cisgendered men.
10:26 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to, you know, speak out of turn here, but I think that we're supposed to empathize here with the fact that Vin explicitly deseccializes herself right, she tries to gray-rock a little bit.
10:38 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_02]: She tries to be uninteresting to men who have abusive tendencies towards her in multiple ways.
10:45 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of the fear, I mean, came in explicitly threads her, right?
10:47 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, I'll send you to the streets to, you know, I don't remember what he calls it, but basically implying that he holds
10:56 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, for 16-year-old how to deal with that is an insane amount of pressure.
11:01 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, when Vin is distrusting, when Vin struggles to trust Kels here and the rest of our thief crew, I completely understand it.
11:10 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
11:11 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She's completely valid in having that distrust of people.
11:15 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all she has really known in her life.
11:17 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a completely natural response.
11:20 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to get Nicole on to talk about some of the psychology of these characters at some point.
11:27 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:28 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
11:28 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's move on to the next part of the chapter of the job.
11:31 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Then her boss came in and a handful of other thieves are planning to scam a higher-ranking obligator called a Prilin.
11:38 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_02]: acting as a desperate, noble man, trying to save his house's finances.
11:44 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Negotiations are looking too good for Cayman, so Ben uses more of her luck to dampen pre-lens suspicions, the pre-lens suspicions, and helps seal the deal unbeknownst to Cayman.
11:56 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So we get to see more of this quote unquote luck in action, right?
12:00 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we know even by the end of this section that it's Alamansae, and we get to see more of the obligators, right?
12:07 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_02]: We learn in the prologue.
12:08 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about last week how the obligators are kind of these bureaucrats, these lawyers, these dealmakers, for the government, and for all the nobles.
12:18 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we get to see a city version, right?
12:21 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of just a remote low ranking one.
12:24 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's so many cool concepts of this world that are introduced here.
12:28 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I could read a whole book just about how the final empire functions, because I think Brandon does a really good job with the world building, but we get a little bit about the steel ministry, which is one of these governing bodies of the final empire.
12:42 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You get the great houses introduced, and these, this idea of the different ministry cantones, the different departments.
12:51 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_01]: so much world-building is being done again that sort of front-loading of a lot of this telling, but I think it's done in a way that's pretty satisfying.
13:01 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_02]: What was that book that came out in 2025?
13:04 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, last year, who is government by Michael Lewis and he just interviewed a bunch of bureaucrats and was like, all these are just interesting stories.
13:12 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny Aaron that you say that because I feel like you're describing this, but in the final empire.
13:17 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll have to add that book to my list because that
13:20 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I love some government workings.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my jam right there.
13:25 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, I read it.
13:26 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was fine.
13:27 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a fine book.
13:29 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not a stellar endorsement.
13:30 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I was expecting a little bit more.
13:35 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this isn't about Michael Lewis today.
13:37 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_02]: This is about Brandon Sanderson.
13:41 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_02]: We have some world building here.
13:43 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, do you want to go through those different factions that they kind of outlined here?
13:48 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we've got the steel ministry, which is going to be it's the whole governing body of the final empire, obviously headed by the Lord ruler, but he doesn't, he doesn't really do a whole lot from what we see like it's he leaves up to his obligators and his problems and
14:07 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all on them.
14:09 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Then there's the great houses which are high-ranking noble houses that helped him ascend way back before the final empire was the final empire.
14:20 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he kind of holds them in high regard.
14:22 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a really interesting concept for an immortal tyrant in my opinion at least.
14:30 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you guys think?
14:33 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a sweet gig, you know, he rests on his laurels and his empire works around him.
14:39 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned the whole aspect of these great houses being the descendants of the people who supported the Lord ruler at the beginning, because it's such an important part of the mythology that the nobles are somehow better than everyone because they sided with the right person and the scar.
15:01 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't necessarily call it a betrayal, but these are the people who aren't necessarily, they weren't on the side of the Lord ruler, and so they don't have the special privileges, and it's just a very convenient mythology to back up the way that the world works.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:17 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
15:18 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's made clear at one point.
15:20 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember if it was in this set of chapters or in the prologue like,
15:22 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Scar are not very biologically different from the nobles, right?
15:25 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they're basically the same species.
15:27 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:28 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Just that they don't have the powers that the nobles get.
15:32 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Unless, you know, there could be some reason, or some way for them to get those powers, who knows, who could say it?
15:39 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they don't unless it's integrated, right?
15:42 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's the whole thing here.
15:44 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And we learned about that in the semichabters, too.
15:46 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:49 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean,
15:51 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, came in, came in slick, I think here.
15:53 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something that I took out of this.
15:55 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting that we kind of build came in up as like a pretty decent scammer.
16:04 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Not decent in like, he's a good person, but he's pretty good at scamming.
16:08 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's good at what he does at least.
16:10 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
16:11 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
16:11 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, we're about to knock him down.
16:14 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's get on to that in chapter two.
16:18 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron, you want to start off with the Kelsey your section?
16:20 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
16:21 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So our happy warrior is found in Lufadel, where he meets up with some of his old friends, namely Doxon, to prepare a meeting with a crew of their own.
16:31 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And the pair start talking logistics after catching up a little bit before Doxon tells Kelsey her that he wants to show him something, and then we cut back to Vin.
16:40 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So this meeting, I thought it was a pretty good introduction to Docs and he's one of my favorites, big fan of his.
16:48 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Really anyone in the crew has got some charisma to him that it's hard to not enjoy them whenever they're on the page.
16:55 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Docs is cool.
16:58 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We do get a name drop of pretty much everyone in like the main.
17:02 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: the main crew and that's going to be clubs, breeze, ham, marsh, Eden, and then the rebellion.
17:08 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not really much else to them yet, but out of those, I gotta say, breeze is my favorite, honestly.
17:17 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But Docs is my, is my number two.
17:22 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Both a pretty cool.
17:23 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I see a lot of people fan casting for Breeze everyone wants to fan cast Breeze All I have to say is hey, we're getting the band back together.
17:31 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You know that's basically this whole chapter Well this section of the chapter is Kelsey here is back Guess who's back back street and he's ready to get the band back together and do some theory and I really like
17:44 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_02]: to, you know, in all these parts, I think came in's crew is saying, hey, like, what's going to be the big job?
17:53 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got to come back to a big job.
17:55 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: He's probably been planning this for years, and then when everyone finds out the job, they're like, oh, yeah, I don't want a part of that.
18:03 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I mean, Kelsey is just a little crazy.
18:07 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_02]: a little.
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_02]: He is a little crazy.
18:10 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a little crazy and he's very likely to get all his friends go.
18:14 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like he's just a lovable dude, you know, you can't, you can't hate him for it.
18:20 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're in the camp of how can you say no to that smile?
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: At the very least for now, I am, yeah.
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a fair point.
18:29 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would be able to refuse a request from Kelsey or either, but I don't know if I have the guts to take on a brutal dictatorship.
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So I might have to shy away.
18:41 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you were a misting, I think you would.
18:43 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: If you had some cool powers,
18:47 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
18:47 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_01]: If I, if I was a little bit more like clubs, maybe I could.
18:51 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_01]: But we also get the a name drop of credit Shah in this chapter, which is the Lord rulers palace fortress.
19:00 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what we want to call it, but it's this fire filled twist.
19:06 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:08 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Peace barred door, right?
19:10 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Like
19:15 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Put it, put a quarter in the middle.
19:16 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You can talk to Jar.
19:18 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It does translate to, I think they said, the hill of a thousand spires or spikes, something along those lines.
19:25 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's, that's just cool.
19:28 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're gonna make a big bad guy, tower or keep or a bearer door, another quarter, I think you just gotta make it at least look in posing and threatening and sound like it too.
19:44 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it a requirement for magical tyrants to have pretty cool looking palaces?
19:51 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that just part of the gig?
19:53 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
19:54 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's pretty much a requirement, yeah.
19:59 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's half the reason you do it, right?
20:01 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That's half the reason you even take over the world.
20:03 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You just have a really cool house.
20:05 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Darth Vader had an awesome castle on moose far.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't be forgetting about that.
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yeah, that's true.
20:12 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He did.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And the Death Star wasn't too shabby either.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:17 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_02]: For a minute.
20:18 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it wasn't.
20:20 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, P. Spoiler is for Star Wars 1977.
20:22 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:26 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, all right, let's let's get on to vending came in make their way to the canton of finances office to complete the scam while waiting It's revealed that came in betrayed the other crew that they were working with and opted to make a quick buck immediately instead of having a way for a larger payout
20:46 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: when they're called to the Pralins office, they're met by a high-pralin instead of the guy that they met with last chapter, which is a little strange, Vin kind of feels something's off too, but they complete their transaction and the obligator seems to be unaware of their deception.
21:05 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a great part of this section is, you know, as much as I complain that we're doing a lot of telling not showing, I actually do think this shows that Viden has really good instincts aside from whatever power she has, right?
21:18 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_02]: She is just smart and observant and just has a good intuition going into all these situations, right?
21:25 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Like something is wrong.
21:26 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We're meeting with a new person.
21:27 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_02]: We're meeting with a higher up.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_02]: We got that contract to easily
21:33 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really good to show that because it's easy to say, like, well, then you've got an eye for the detail, but, you know, it's another thing to show her actively assessing a situation.
21:44 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I do think I think we could, again, bring it up if we end up doing a bonus episode with Marilyn, but I do feel like her trauma and abuse from Reane plays into that a little bit,
22:03 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_00]: apt, I guess, to be suspicious of things.
22:08 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that makes sense, or if there's me better way I could put it, but it's one of those things.
22:14 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I see what you're saying.
22:15 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, we, we want to not hold so much fear in ourselves that we can't function.
22:23 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But there is a healthy amount of fear and there's a healthy amount of skepticism and there's a healthy amount of distrust to walk into the world with and a lot of life is managing weird as my trust and in my distrust began and when we start with Vin here her distrust is is most of her life right very very tiny bits of trust and even you know later on in the section I I don't want to
22:45 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_02]: get you out there too far yet, but she extends a little bit of trust to someone and it immediately backfires.
22:49 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So you understand how she got this way.
22:52 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But this this section with the canton of finance really shows that like that that has been an asset to her and you understand why she leems into it.
23:02 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
23:04 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like you were saying, I think
23:07 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Vin has seen nothing except for the fact that when she doesn't trust people, that's the right call.
23:14 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big impact.
23:16 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing I kind of wanted to talk about here, again, I get a little bit too into the world building into the logistics of fictional empires, but I thought it was a pretty interesting detail that the final empire gives them this sum of money to
23:32 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Presumably get this business off the ground and Vin comments or thinks about the fact that this is more money than she's really ever seen in her entire life.
23:42 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And then that she thought she was ever going to see so the extreme wealth disparity is on display as well.
23:51 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_02]: That's totally not realistic to the real world.
23:53 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_02]: No, we can stream up disparity.
23:55 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: The rich being very cavalier with their funds and then wondering why everybody's mad could never happen.
24:01 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, never.
24:04 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I mean, I don't have too much to say about this chapter, but obviously, Vin is like something's wrong, and she is right, let's move on to Kelsey here.
24:15 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: We flip back to Kelsey here as he's sitting in the waiting room of the Canton office with Doxon.
24:20 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_02]: as they observed Cayman and Vin discreetly and discovered that Vin is gaining a reputation as Cayman's good luck charm.
24:26 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelsey are induction discuss Vin and her powers, a mysterious magic called Alamansi that has something to do with ingesting metals.
24:36 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_02]: The pair of thieves leave right behind Vin and Cayman, then the high-paralyne walks out accompanied by a steel inquisitor.
24:44 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't see much of it as Kels here, quickly, down the vial of the eight basic elementic metals, burning them to be the inquisitor into a chase.
24:56 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Action time, that's kind of where we're at for you, right?
25:00 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I do, you know, a lot of people will complain that burn attention to magic systems or two video gamey.
25:07 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But then you see a guy drink a vial of metal and about to kick ass and you're like, okay, but it's awesome.
25:13 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then you see the inquisitor that he's fighting and I think that's even, it's gamey, like if I saw that thing in a game, I'm gonna fight it, I'm gonna wanna fight it because it looks insane, he's got massive spike strivenin to his eye sockets, he's got the obligator, like I tattoos and everything,
25:37 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, these things are scary to look at.
25:41 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:42 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, they are.
25:43 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're, they're, they're terrifying, right?
25:44 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, imagine having metal coming through your head and still living and everyone's just, and you can apparently still see for some reason.
25:53 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wild.
25:54 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That is, it really is something else.
25:57 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the way that the steel and quizzeters work is just a complete mystery to everyone in this universe
26:07 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It calcier talks a little bit in these set of chapters about how
26:13 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_01]: The inquisitors don't follow the laws of Alamansi, the laws of nature, as they know them, they shouldn't exist.
26:19 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't understand why these creatures, and I think creature is a pretty good word to describe these guys.
26:26 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there Richard?
26:28 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You've gone on record as saying this before, but they are not human.
26:31 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_01]: They're very far from it.
26:36 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just a complete terrifying presence,
26:42 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're they're one of the few like biologically human things in the cosmic that I don't consider human because they're just so they're they're they're so beyond human and I'll also their minds that's are definitely something else, but we can't really get into that too much here, not yet at least.
27:05 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I let's not get into that, but.
27:09 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they don't make sense of these characters.
27:12 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Kels here is looking at everybody going, you're cool, you're cool, you're cool.
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what that is.
27:17 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's just so many mysteries started here.
27:22 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We do get some, you know, some details on what the metals are.
27:27 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_02]: that make up the element of metals.
27:29 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you want to go through that Aaron.
27:30 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we have iron steel tin, pewter copper, bronze, zinc, and brass, and all of these different metals are linked to a specific power.
27:43 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Injusting the different metals is going to grant you a different power, but
27:47 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like if you have the ability to burn one, you can burn them all only Mistborn have that ability and then we have the Mistings, of course, who are only able to burn one.
27:58 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, this is kind of getting into the video game logic of it where
28:03 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_01]: you either have access to one power, or you've got access to all the powers, which is pretty interesting.
28:11 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And both Kelsey and Vin take that place as being able to access all the powers they are missed born.
28:19 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other members of our little Thieving crew are just missedings.
28:24 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the easiest way to think about it too is they're each of the eight is basically half of a power, right?
28:31 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you can push and pull depending on what the metal is and what that means is going opposite directions.
28:36 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And so these eight, allomantic metals are really four powers total.
28:41 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_02]: They're just the, it's four-meter.
28:43 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's eight powers.
28:45 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_02]: but it's four powers each with a mirror.
28:47 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I think of it as.
28:48 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_02]: That way, it's not like so much to remember.
28:52 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:52 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I do think, though, it's so well-defined.
28:56 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, Sanderson is the one who came up with the soft and hard power system.
29:05 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_00]: the idea behind each of them, and obviously he tends to go for the hard power systems.
29:10 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And it makes it interesting when there are things like the inquisitors that don't, they don't play by these clearly set rules that we have.
29:20 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's just something good to keep in mind like as we go through the Cosmere journey, I guess.
29:28 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and yeah, can you can you talk about that?
29:30 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Look, we're we're all fantasy as here.
29:32 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_02]: We all know the difference.
29:33 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_02]: We hard and soft magic systems, but I think a lot of people reading it for the first time not new to fantasy might not know that.
29:38 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you describe soft versus hard magic systems?
29:41 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, soft.
29:43 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm not as educated on this as I probably should be given how much I like Sanderson's writing, but like my basic understanding of it is soft power systems are more like obviously there's not a whole lot of rules to them.
29:58 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_00]: They're typically used more as like a plot device versus in this where they're used
30:05 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There's more to it than that.
30:06 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There's more in depth.
30:07 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: There's rules.
30:09 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a greater understanding of what everyone with this magical ability can and cannot do, whereas in something like like studio Ghibli movie,
30:30 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the load of the rings, I think is the biggest example of a soft magic system.
30:35 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, something that Brandon Sanders has said, and I totally agree with is your ability to solve the problem with the magic is directly correlated to how well the reader understands the magic.
30:49 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yes, the load of the rings is a soft magic system, but the problem is solved with the hike.
30:53 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not solved with the magic system.
30:56 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And here we have a magic system that Brandon Sanderson is always very hard as in they are well-defined rules.
31:03 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And so when we solve the problem with the magic system, it will feel satisfying.
31:07 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what you're alluding through Richard is, we might not understand the inquisitors now, but we will understand the inquisitors at least to an extent.
31:14 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_02]: because there is always an explanation behind the magic in Sanderson's world.
31:18 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, there's a few mysteries still out there right now though.
31:23 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I really wish we had answers to, but he's right as he does.
31:28 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll definitely get those at some point.
31:30 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_02]: He definitely exists somewhere, even if they're not revealed yet.
31:33 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he doesn't leave really anything to the imagination when it comes to how
31:45 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, any other thoughts on Alamansi hard magic system, soft magic systems?
31:50 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious about which approach you two prefer.
31:55 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you prefer this sort of soft magic approach in storytelling or do you find the hard magic approach a little bit more satisfying?
32:03 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I love hard magic.
32:05 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the way that I like learning about the magic system is kind of how you are with learning about the world building.
32:12 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it.
32:14 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_00]: there's so many interesting combinations that you can come up with once you have like clearly defined rules for magic, especially in something like the Cosmere where again without getting too spoilery, these magic systems can mix and intertwine and and or mingle, like there's room for some interesting stuff down the line.
32:34 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that much.
32:37 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's more of a slider than it is at binary, right?
32:39 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they, you know, it's not like
32:42 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_02]: You cross a certain threshold of now it's a hard magic system.
32:45 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's that, you know, Sanderson, I think is on the extreme side of a hard magic system, like he is just, you know, the definition of a hard magic system.
32:53 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, um, where it's like a little bit less of a hard magic system is the wheel of time, where there are a lot of rules, but there are some things that are just not explained.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's okay.
33:04 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think the Lord of the Rings, I'm reading the Assassin's Apprentice series right now, and that's a much softer magic system.
33:12 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_02]: The, they're, they're, they're the fire sea, fire sea or trilogy.
33:15 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what is actually called, but you know, I, I like those too.
33:18 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I really like living in those worlds.
33:21 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But I totally agree with Brandon's approach of like, it's okay if you want your magic system to be soft, but then you can't rely on that to solve every problem, right?
33:29 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It has to be mundane actions that solve the problems.
33:33 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: more often than it's the magic system that solves a problem because if you if it's just a wave of the wand solves the problem, it's going to be very dissatisfying to your readers.
33:43 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the Eagles can't fly.
33:45 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone in the board or yeah, it has to have made sense.
33:50 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I hate when people use that as a gacha because it makes sense why they couldn't.
33:55 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it definitely, it does.
33:55 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, why don't we take a break and get back to the chapters once we're ready?
33:57 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: [♪ music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music playing in background music
34:24 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: This chapter opens up with Vin Cayman and the rest of the crew celebrating a successful job, but Vin feels something is off.
34:31 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The job just seemed too easy with the ministry immediately forking over the boxings.
34:36 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Vin packs up her belongings after telling another crew member she wants to leave.
34:40 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: When she returns to the celebration, Cayman confronts her and starts to beat on her, and she is crawling to the layers entrance.
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Cayman has pushed back by an unseen force.
34:55 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey explains that the ministry knew about the scam as he strips Cayman of his role, promoting another crew member to Phil Cayman's shoes, and then sort of runs out the layer for his meeting and instructs that only Vin can stay.
35:09 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey and Docson talk to Vin, which leads to Vin to drink a mysterious solution, confirming
35:23 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, for him as a Mormon, we know that, I'm going somewhere with this, I promise.
35:28 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Brandon's a Mormon, we know that.
35:30 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he'd directly meant this, but Kelsier is clearly got some like Jesus' vibe to here, right?
35:38 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_02]: He was crucified for a sins.
35:40 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: He was sent to the pits of Hathslin and now he's back.
35:42 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_02]: He's been, you know, quote unquote resurrected with new
35:53 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_02]: and then be just absolutely ragged all by him.
35:58 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Just shoved to the wall, stripped of his titles, sent out to be a beggar.
36:05 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_02]: It was fun to watch after he treated Vinzo poorly.
36:08 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, you know, I did take great satisfaction in this scene.
36:13 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:13 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate to see violence used to make a point, but this was pretty satisfying.
36:20 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that Kelsey was well within his rights to push came in around a little bit.
36:27 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Cayman is maybe my most hated character in these five chapters.
36:32 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty tough competition with all of the steel inquisitors and government bureaucrats
36:42 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty despicable.
36:45 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's tough, right, because came in is still part of the oppressed class, right?
36:50 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And we have this whole bureaucracy made to politely oppress at all these people.
36:57 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_02]: came and it's just rude about his oppression that I think that's why it feels more visceral is that he's he's more overt and blunt and rude about all and cruel about all of the the the bad things he does whereas a stealing quizzader is doing horrible things but they're pretty quiet about it right they're pretty they're you know they just do I'm just doing my job you know
37:26 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_02]: The obligators, the still inquisitor, is they're all just part of a machine just making sure that everyone knows their place and arguably a lot more, and I think they're in arguably The Ministry itself is doing way more harm to people than came in is, but because he won he's attacking our main character directly and to he's just so cruel about it, it just feels more visceral
37:52 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there is another thing that I wanted to add on about the inquisitors.
37:56 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like because they don't feel human, and they feel more like animals almost, or beasts, I guess, like their dehumanized.
38:08 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas like, came in, obviously we see interaction, multiple interactions with him up to this point.
38:14 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he has the choice to not be a dick.
38:18 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead he chooses to be a dick and punch down for no reason.
38:23 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know.
38:26 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't, I don't really have a point, I guess.
38:29 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I don't like came in.
38:32 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think you're absolutely right.
38:33 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And
38:35 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_01]: To me, a person like Cayman, who is abusive, he's always going to be more terrifying than the steel and quisitor who is using his magical powers.
38:47 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a guy like Cayman, there's plenty of people like him who exist in the real world who prey on individuals that they know they can get away with it.
38:58 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is way more terrifying than any sort of fictional monster.
39:04 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's what I was trying to get at.
39:06 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so thank you.
39:07 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the assist there.
39:10 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:14 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, came in God, at least for now.
39:17 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_02]: We, we don't have to worry about him.
39:18 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_02]: He's been pushed off into the gutter.
39:21 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:23 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is what I was alluding to by the way, about, uh, vintrusting someone briefly.
39:29 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the other crew members.
39:30 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how the name of the top of my head.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, oh, we should get out of here.
39:33 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you come off with me and he just goes right to the cabin.
39:36 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And that again, she's just being reinforced all the time, not to trust anybody for even a little this thing.
39:41 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, maybe we should leave the room for a minute.
39:44 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_02]: That's tough to watch.
39:46 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And also, I, I missed remember this for some reason.
39:49 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that Kelsey or like refuse the boxings and said, you know, give me a bit.
39:55 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_02]: But no, and I, I appreciate that he did it this way because
39:59 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_02]: that would treat them as a commodity right and wins not a commodity he wants to win the right way by making her curious about the power he's like I love I love when what he's like
40:13 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't poison you.
40:14 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to drink a mysterious vile for me anyway.
40:16 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So why would I need to?
40:18 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_01]: True.
40:19 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get a little bit of Vince background that her father was a high-ranking ministry official.
40:27 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where her powers are coming from.
40:30 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And big no-no amongst the nobility and the higher classes to have a child with a scour.
40:38 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_02]: and Kelsey or takes great joy from that, right?
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, huh?
40:41 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the rod is from the top.
40:43 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as it often goes.
40:45 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he really has a hate on for the nobles.
40:48 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And once we meet a few of them, I think you guys will too.
40:53 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_00]: They really are horrible.
40:58 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Shall we move on to chapter four?
41:00 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
41:02 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Then sits with Kamen's old crew now under Milov's leadership.
41:07 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_02]: and contemplates the apparent trust shown between Docs and KELL.
41:12 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_02]: For Vin, Trust is a slippery slope to getting betrayed that only a fool would let themselves fall for.
41:19 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_02]: She is then met by key members of KELSEUR's crew who lament that KELL is late as usual, and this is where we're meeting all the fun people, right?
41:27 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I've Richard, why don't you lead us in with our cast of characters here?
41:30 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, first we've got my favorite breeze.
41:33 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a misting called a suether, and that is the power to push on people's emotions.
41:39 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of,
41:41 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_00]: like what Vin was doing except the opposite half of it, then Hammond or Hamm as he's referred to pretty much the rest of the books.
41:52 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a thug which is a pewter burner and they had physical strength.
41:56 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a skilled recruiter and an organizer and he also has some cool, like, philosophical bits here and they, you know, throws in, so that's fun.
42:05 --> 42:22 [SPEAKER_00]: and then we finally have clubs who's a smoker and he can burn copper to mask like elementic signals or pulses that could be picked up by someone else using the mirror for copper which detects elementic pulses.
42:24 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's it.
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh oh and clubs is enough you is there.
42:28 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh there's not a whole lot on him but his name's Spook.
42:33 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get into that later.
42:35 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, not this episode to be clear, but, you know, at a litter date, I think we'll be meeting more people too.
42:40 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, what do you think about the names?
42:42 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, how do you feel about the names given to all these different mistakes?
42:47 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Not the individual names, like, Smoker, thug, these kinds of categorical names.
42:52 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's pretty fun to have these sort of street level names for the different types of powers.
42:58 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense in this universe that
43:01 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: you wouldn't have the high nobility.
43:03 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm a pewter burner.
43:06 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're living on the street, you're born with this power and you're you're a thug.
43:11 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You get to beat people up.
43:13 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it fits pretty well with the underground sort of vibe that they're going for here.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Richard.
43:26 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a pretty good part of the world building for the staff underworld, but other than that, I don't have enough too much to say on them.
43:35 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're well-named though, that's for sure.
43:37 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_00]: How about you, John?
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so too.
43:41 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say my one complaint about this is we are just learning about the different metals and they're already throwing alternative names for the abilities.
43:52 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that might be a weak point on the writing here.
43:56 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I think maybe spread this out a little more and it would be a little jetliner for the reader.
44:00 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, you don't need to remember all this, right?
44:03 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have a podcast to walk you through.
44:05 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remind you who people are.
44:07 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, also, if you don't remember that a thug burns Peter, who cares, right?
44:11 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You just know that Hammond is strong.
44:14 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he did.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Hammond strong.
44:15 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_00]: He hit stuff and stuff doesn't hit a back after that.
44:19 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
44:20 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good way to find it.
44:23 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, you want to tell us all about the survivor of Hatsen?
44:26 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'd love to.
44:27 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Caven's crew tells stories of the legendary Kelseyur, a misfortune scar, who fought the Lord ruler, only to be betrayed by those closest to him, losing his wife in the process and landing himself in the brutal pits of Hatsen.
44:42 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Through miraculous means, Kelseyur becomes the only man to make it out of the pits,
44:47 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_00]: despite the brutality and the torture he hinders and he earns the title of the survivor of Hatsin.
44:54 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to say what a moniker to have.
44:58 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_00]: John, what do you think about that?
45:00 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's a great moniker.
45:02 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it conveys a level of badassery and I'm just happy for him.
45:07 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's great form.
45:09 --> 45:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I did really feel been doing the Leo pointing me when he's like, when somebody's like, he was betrayed.
45:15 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, see, see.
45:16 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:18 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he immediately shows her that he's not really the same as her.
45:24 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: His reaction to being betrayed is not the same.
45:27 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And she, I think,
45:30 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of has a point when she looks at him and is like, what an idiot.
45:34 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been betrayed and he still wants to bring all these people in and is spilling the beans on the plans.
45:42 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I'm sure that Kelsey has had his own life experiences, but I don't think that Vin is wrong to call him out a little bit in her head.
45:55 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that they can both learn from each other, right?
45:58 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she, she's got a level of skepticism that maybe Kelly needs to regain.
46:03 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And he has the teacher that, like, you still need to trust somebody.
46:08 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_02]: You cannot live without putting some trust in somebody.
46:11 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And Kelly has his crew that he trusts, dearly, right?
46:15 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The, at one point, clubs walks out.
46:18 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_02]: He walks out, he's not convinced.
46:21 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's in the next section.
46:25 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_02]: He walks out and nobody goes after him and she's like, why are you going after him?
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, he's already been bedded like we trust these people.
46:32 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody got in here that wasn't part of that circle of trust already.
46:36 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they'll throw the talking pillow over to the next person.
46:41 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll all teach Ben about our feelings.
46:46 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, feelings and trust.
46:48 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
46:49 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We also have just picture in a Walter White with I have the talking
46:55 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We also get the little detail that this is kind of the first job that Kelsey or his done since the period directly after he escaped from the pits of Hathson.
47:05 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's been MIA from Lufadel for quite a while.
47:10 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been off doing his own thing in the countryside, building his legend a little bit, making a name for himself amongst the scour, and now the prodigal son returns to the full.
47:21 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he really did go on a lot of side quests it seems before this, because people have heard of him even though he's just been out in the sticks and this is I mean, this is Lutherdale.
47:30 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the center of noble culture and kind of Scott culture.
47:36 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't really see too much of the rest of the final atmosphere, but they are pretty, they're pretty rooted in here.
47:46 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_02]: He's an agent of chaos, right?
47:47 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just gone around to be an agent of chaos.
47:50 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And now he's ready to actually put his mind to a big planned job.
47:56 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And not to harp on the world building.
48:00 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, no, I'm going to stop apologizing.
48:02 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep harping on the world building.
48:04 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Please harp on the world building.
48:05 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a it's a lore podcast.
48:07 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You're allowed.
48:08 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:09 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that the food that people have access to is also a pretty big part of showing us how how people are treated in the final
48:24 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_01]: their access to certain goods like Kelsey is commenting on how shitty Cayman's wine is that he has stored up and I accept the one behind the double back drunk exactly and so that shows that Cayman even though he in a character like Vins' eyes is sort of the peak of
48:45 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_01]: richness for a scot.
48:47 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_01]: This guy is a crew leader, whatever.
48:52 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He only has access to certain things.
48:53 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He can't get his hands on tons of noble wine.
48:56 --> 49:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He has one secret bottle stashed away that is going to be saved for the most special occasion he could possibly think of.
49:04 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_01]: That's probably the only nice bottle of wine he'll ever see in his life.
49:08 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Just using food as world-building is really clever.
49:14 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and speaking of food, Richard, you, I think you put in the outline about crumbs, right?
49:20 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_02]: These small-time, leaving crews, like it's even a metaphor with these small-time, leaving crews that they're left to pick up the crumbs.
49:27 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
49:28 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I'm gonna be honest, I think Aaron added that, actually.
49:32 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I have a lot of ideas, you know, assigning, assigning people things that they don't deserve credit for.
49:39 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll take the credit, but yeah.
49:43 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_02]: all right um yeah i don't know if i have anything else to say on this bit at least how much you guys i'm ready to go into the plan the members of Kelsea's crew are asked to risk their lives to accomplish the unthinkable
50:02 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_02]: toppling the final empire, yet in needs a cruise help to recruit an army of scat and create a favorable opening so the final empire can be overthrown and a new government put in its place, helping a worthy cause is nice, but the cruise real prizes have the Lord ruler stash of a middle-called idiom.
50:21 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Even a little bit would bring unimaginable will to the crew.
50:27 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna, I'm gonna trip in with my audio book knowledge.
50:30 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pronounced Yden technically.
50:32 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Yden, I know.
50:35 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, it's Yden.
50:36 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 80, 80, I'm, it's, I think that's really all I got right now.
50:42 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I did say 80, yay, yay, Yden.
50:46 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna, I'll say Yden going forward.
50:48 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna nitpick here in there, especially in the storm like, cause, cause there's a lot in there
50:57 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_02]: He makes some pronunciation choices in Stormlight that baffle wing.
51:02 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He does.
51:03 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He does.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all could've had was a weird one.
51:06 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how you pronounce it.
51:07 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's going to mess me up.
51:09 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
51:09 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
51:10 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
51:10 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Not Stormlight yet.
51:11 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get back to Ms. Born, Yaden.
51:14 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
51:15 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So we meet this guy.
51:16 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He's the leader of the Revolution, which seems like maybe not the most organized organization.
51:22 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_02]: If they're relying on Kelsey here.
51:25 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he's described as a very dirty looking man, and we get a little bit of information about how, over the past thousand years, there have been many failed attempts to sort of claw power away from the Lord ruler, and each one of them has failed spectacularly, and put the sky in maybe a worse position than they were in before.
51:45 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So,
51:48 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Eden has his work cut out for him if he actually wants to overthrow the final empire, but he'll better to enact government change than a group of criminals.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the the one.
52:02 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_00]: or one of the bigger problems with their plan, though, are these things called co-loss.
52:07 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Creatures in the Lord Roolers Army deemed too dangerous and too unpredictable, but they will come to loot it all's defense when it's needed.
52:16 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't know anything else about these things so far, yet other than that they're monsters.
52:22 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty cool.
52:26 --> 52:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I do really like that, you know, Calcer's basically like,
52:29 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_02]: You came to us because you know we get jobs done.
52:32 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And you've not had a good track or a good of getting jobs done.
52:36 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He has a point, right?
52:38 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can be hyper out.
52:41 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It reminds me of end or when everybody was looking down on Lutheran's rebels, but like how do they find out about the death star through Lutheran?
52:49 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, it's tough to where do you draw the line of who gets to be in your rebellion movement?
52:58 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and how do you convince people to fight against someone who in their eyes is pretty much got as far as they know.
53:07 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a really great quote, which is
53:10 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey, the Lord ruler, is the sliver of infinity.
53:14 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a piece of God himself.
53:16 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't kill him.
53:19 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And that just goes on to show that these people are still swearing by the Lord ruler as if he's God.
53:26 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_01]: They're still viewing him as this divine entity.
53:29 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't overthrow God.
53:30 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So,
53:32 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_01]: you have to convince these people that the mythology that they grew up with is a complete lie before you even get started on getting the real work done.
53:42 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a great call that they swear by him because that's that's showing not telling Where as the quote that you just read is definitely a telling you, you know, they maybe you'll miss God But but just the mundane swearing level or ruler.
53:56 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I think is even better to put that into perspective even even the rebels are swearing by the little Bruler right?
54:03 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there there are a few like interesting parts of the series where Kelsey or will even
54:09 --> 54:30 [SPEAKER_00]: swear by the Lord ruler and he'll correct himself in his head and think, no, I don't want to think of him that way because he's not, he's not my god and like, bad, I think is an interesting just a little bit of character building for him and world building in general, I guess, with how important it is to worship the Lord ruler.
54:33 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Should we talk about the elephant in the room, the 11th metal that Calcyre mentions,
54:39 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's going on there?
54:41 --> 54:44 [SPEAKER_01]: This is apparently the key to defeating the Lord ruler.
54:45 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly as it's named in 11th metal, which supposedly can be burned.
54:53 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't know how it works.
54:54 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't know why it works.
54:56 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But somewhere in there, Calcer believes that this is going to be the key to taking down a sliver of infinity of the Lord ruler.
55:05 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you guys think about the 11th metal?
55:10 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I genuinely don't remember why it's there.
55:12 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I have forgotten most of this book and I think that's a good place for me to be since we don't have a non-reader.
55:19 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited by the mystery now.
55:21 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting.
55:24 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some stuff going on there.
55:26 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we just can't talk about it yet.
55:30 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's a very interesting, like,
55:33 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's the weapon that will win us the war as long as we have it by our side.
55:37 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, uh, what's the term I'm looking for?
55:39 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_00]: McGuffin.
55:41 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Checkoff's gone.
55:42 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, checkoff's gone.
55:43 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's where I'm thinking is, uh, I think you have, uh, yeah.
55:47 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it David loves talking about checkoff's gone.
55:50 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me.
55:50 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I kind of do too.
55:52 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, I guess I'm filling in for him.
55:58 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And very good.
55:59 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a small little piece of this on Bikelsir and my biggest surprise upon reading this was that Kelsir didn't burn it and try and figure out what it does.
56:09 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just such an impatient guy that him having any restraint with this type of weapon was very shocking to me.
56:20 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he wants the, I don't know if he, if he's afraid that it won't work or that it'll harm him in some way, maybe he wanted to at least get things rolling first.
56:30 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes sense.
56:32 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he wants a guinea pig.
56:33 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Ben.
56:37 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, another misborn to test out my potions on.
56:42 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... we also get a pretty big term which is snapping in this chapter which is essentially just someone awakening their elementic powers through pretty extreme stress usually yeah and where did Kelsey your snap the source of all idiom the pits of hasn't and nobody ever gets out uh... because uh... otherwise you'll you'll know where the idiom is it's like really wanted factory right you can't go in or out
57:11 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Well I guess you can go in but you can't go out ever.
57:14 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you know in that 80 I'm very important for the the empire and the plot Might be some crazy stuff happening there who knows?
57:25 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean clearly if the
57:26 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_02]: The writing here is pointing to it as an important thing to remember right at the 80 of us there where we're they're literally doing the job for half of the 80.
57:34 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
57:34 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_02]: That is the price.
57:35 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's extremely valuable.
57:37 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We know that the Lord ruler keeps a tight grip on it and doesn't want to devalue it.
57:41 --> 57:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like how people do with diamonds in the real world.
57:45 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's not great.
57:46 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, this artificial scarcity.
57:48 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
57:50 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:50 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
57:53 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, should we talk about chapter five a little?
57:56 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's my turn to give one of our synophores.
57:59 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:00 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So keep venture.
58:02 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Having exhausted his 80m supply during his tussle with Lord trusting and his purchase of or serves contract, Kelser is in need of a resupply.
58:12 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He decides to target the keep of house venture, which is one of the great houses in the final empire.
58:18 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_01]: After a fight with some of Lord Venture's guards, Kelsey manages to escape with a very small but significant pouch of idiom beads.
58:29 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelsey here was really reckless here.
58:31 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was honestly, I forgot how reckless he could be and how shocked I was.
58:37 --> 58:40 [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, I was so like, yeah, get him.
58:40 --> 58:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, it was just a great, you know, when this gets adapted, because we know it's getting adapted into a movie, you know that this is going to be one of the money shots, right?
58:48 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be one of the scenes where they're showing you.
58:53 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_02]: just awesome, right?
58:54 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's part of Brandon Sanderson's rules of magic.
58:56 --> 59:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the last rule is if it's awesome, just do it.
59:01 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he does.
59:02 --> 59:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He does keep the rule of cool in mind.
59:04 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's great.
59:06 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think every Kelsey or action scene is like a perfect embodiment of that, is that he really just writes some hell.
59:14 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, moments.
59:16 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to put it, I guess.
59:18 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he definitely writes Kelsey or is an aura farmer.
59:24 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He's good at writing horror farmers.
59:25 --> 59:29 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot in the Cosmere and I can't wait to talk about him all.
59:30 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
59:32 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of horror farmers, we get a name drop.
59:35 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know who this character is yet, but Kelsey or did purchase a contract for someone services named Orsert Richard.
59:44 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I pronouncing that right as our resident?
59:46 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You are pronouncing it correctly.
59:49 --> 59:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It is, or sir, I think it's been a minute on that one actually.
59:54 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
59:55 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe there's a French aspect to these names, right?
59:58 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's like, it's French spellings, but more Americanized pronunciation.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that right?
01:00:05 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he did that with this world building.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm not really too familiar with any of the spellings because I'm going to deep dive.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to deep dive on this for a future episode, but I do think that he went with like French names and then, you know, French inspired names.
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, just put it in a more Americanized spelling as pronunciation.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like he went very European with the world
01:00:34 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The city of Luthadel in my mind is very reminiscent of like bloodborne and like that style of kind of god thing architecture.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I just believe beautiful though.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to get more world building here.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got the Hayes Killers.
01:00:53 --> 01:01:20 [SPEAKER_02]: uh... they were cool they were you were like okay they people can fight with metal let's all wear wooden armor and cloth armor and leather armor uh... let's let's make ourselves less vulnerable to them smart right i i like that the nobility aren't stupid here right we have we have teams we have layers of defenses it's just that they don't expect a misborn like i think any missing would have been in a lot of trouble here they just don't expect a misborn no one expects a misborn
01:01:22 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: very true and no one expects the misfords because they have special cloaks that twist and weave through the mist to sort of camouflage them for one but also to signal to guards and to other misfords their status in the world which I think was a pretty interesting piece of world building as well that
01:01:44 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: if you are a guard for one of these major houses and you see someone in a in a mistborn cloak sort of crouching in the distance, probably shouldn't mess with them, just let them do their work.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would just rotted that point because they also on top of having like an actual function because they can carry like extra metal vials and stuff in them.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They also just look really cool and I'm not messing with that.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be great.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the costume designer is going to have a really fun time with us in the movie.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I mean, just awesome with Kelsey here here.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_02]: But Kelsey here does almost die several times here, right?
01:02:25 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And does the plan go on without Kelsey here?
01:02:27 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's unclear.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Can this group of people survive if he is right-class?
01:02:34 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, I don't think so.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if he does, it all kind of falls apart
01:02:43 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's no right.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it makes sense because if you can't even rob a keep of one of the nobles, then no, you can't rob the Lord ruler.
01:02:52 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's there's just not enough trust between them either, not between them, I guess, but between the crew and the remaining Mistborn that they would have if Kelsey were to die here.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, then I think Vin would just split immediately after that.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not to mention that even if they did, somehow managed to keep Vin on in the scenario, she doesn't really have any misfortune training.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, how useful to this crew is she going to be in long run if each one of them has to sort of train her in the different element of metals as they go along?
01:03:31 --> 01:03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas Kelsey are being a misfortune himself that training can be expedited a little bit.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's just swallow some metal and see what happens.
01:03:43 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_02]: At least she knows to do that now, right?
01:03:45 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't even know to swallow her primary, metal.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not even primary, they're all equal for her, but the one that she had been using her luck quote unquote.
01:03:55 --> 01:03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she just was eaten.
01:03:57 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it had some random deposits in it, she really just got lucky in even finding out that she could do, that she could perform elements.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that they mentioned that the Lord ruler picked Luther Del specifically for its location over some key deposits of some of those aromatic metals so that it would get into the water supply and into the food and things like that, which I thought was a cool detail.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Got a little bit of a world building?
01:04:27 --> 01:04:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Something I don't think we've considered enough is if then can do a nudge just based on mineral she picked up,
01:04:37 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_02]: How subtle is her control over these powers?
01:04:39 --> 01:04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, is she just really not just gifted with these powers, but gifted in subtle to with them and nuance?
01:04:45 --> 01:04:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's gonna be really exciting to see her train now.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: As Kelsey receives more like a blunt object, right?
01:04:53 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_02]: He is just going in there, kicking ass taking names and, you know, throwing metal through people.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:04 [SPEAKER_02]: He does him as cool moves, but I don't think he has a lot of finesse with these powers.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that Vince instincts actually play into her ability to use the more like nuanced, or to use these abilities in a more nuanced way than Kelsey or she's more
01:05:17 --> 01:05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, a hidden knife and he is, he's a baseball bat or like a chainsaw, he's just going for it.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think I have anything else to say about this episode about this episode.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm used to covering TV about this chapter.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody else?
01:05:36 --> 01:05:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've run out of world building points to make.
01:05:43 --> 01:06:04 [SPEAKER_02]: it's it's really good world building he's always excelled at that right that's that's a brand of centers in signature technique uh we're gonna be reading next week chapters six through ten of misborn the final empire that's gonna be somewhere between fifty and seventy pages depending on uh what your printing is if you're really on the reader whatever audiobook
01:06:05 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we're going to be doing about that length every week, but we'll give you the full schedule.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:10 [SPEAKER_02]: You'll you can find that in the show notes.
01:06:11 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You can also follow along on Fable.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 [SPEAKER_02]: We have a book club where you can talk at real time with people who are at where you're at.
01:06:17 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and you can track your reading on it.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's all free.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's fun times.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget, there will be monthly bonus spoilery pods where we'll talk about, you know, the context within the full Cosmere.
01:06:30 --> 01:06:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything goes.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything that's happened in the Cosmere will go.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That'll be a bonus pot only for subscribers and again there is a three dollar a month early bird special on subscriptions Through the patreon which is linked in the show notes.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:46 [SPEAKER_02]: You can also head to the lower-hounds discord to talk with people and
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_02]: have a great time with us there.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Where can people email us, Aaron?
01:06:49 --> 01:07:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to get in touch with us, tell us what you're thinking about the show or about the book, you can send your emails to Cosmere at the Lorehouse.com or as John said, head to the Lorehouse Discord server and all of that is going to be linked in the show notes.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, come and join the conversation.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to hear from you guys.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:11 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
01:07:12 --> 01:07:14 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next week.
01:07:14 --> 01:07:17 [SPEAKER_02]: for chapters 6 through 10 of the same book, Ms. Board in the final empire.
01:07:18 --> 01:07:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Until then, say, Misty.