John, Aaron, and Richard discuss Vin's training and Kelsier's impulsiveness.
https://linktr.ee/cosmerecorner
Schedule for Mistborn: The Final Empire
-8/7/2026 - Prologue
-8/14/2026 - Ch 1-5
-8/21/2026 - Ch 6-9
-8/28/2026 - Ch 10-15
-9/4/2026 - Ch 16-20
-9/11/2026 - Ch 21-25
-9/18/2026 - Ch 26-30
-9/25/2026 - Ch 31-35
-10/2/2026 - Ch 36-Epilogue
Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
00:10 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Cosmere Corner, a recap and analysis of the works of Brandon Sanders, and I'm John.
00:16 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Aaron, and I'm Richard.
00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be our coverage of chapters 10 through 15 of Mistborn, the final empire.
00:25 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And in this episode, we're going to be talking about soothing, betrayals, and new metals.
00:31 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get bonus content for our show, or you just want to support us, you can go to Patreon, which is linked in the link right in the show notes.
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00:50 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Spoiler warning for everything that we've read so far, which today is through chapter 15 of Ms. Born the final empire.
00:58 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you haven't read that, make sure you go read those now.
01:02 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We have episodes breaking down the previous chapters today.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We have the whole crew back together.
01:09 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron, you want to tell us your hot takes on these chapters?
01:14 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know how hot this take really is, but I really enjoyed Breeze's explanation of how soothing works a little bit more to Vin.
01:23 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I think so far what we've gotten of Alamancey has been a lot of.
01:28 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess rules and regulations and this feels a lot more like a real art form a little bit softer of a magic than the rest of Alamansi.
01:38 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So I really appreciated that.
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was pretty fun.
01:41 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Breeze is overall just a really great character who delivers some pretty good exposition.
01:48 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that especially now that we're getting out of the exposition, Brandon is
01:57 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_01]: What's that word, Subtile?
01:59 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that how you pronounce it?
02:00 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:02 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a subtle art and I appreciate that.
02:05 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a lot of nuance on that and then of course we have the lack of subtlety which is Kelsey or bursting into a room and almost getting everybody killed because he just, you know,
02:15 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's him.
02:16 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I like this idea of we're going to send Vin, you know, on her Pokemon gym journey, where she has to go to each gym leader and kind of learn their skills.
02:27 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And then go back to Kelsey or, you know, the elite four and go, you know, go back and be a miss board.
02:34 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Richard, what are your thoughts?
02:36 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I also don't know if this is a hot take or not, but the first time I was reading through this, I was completely shocked, like jaw on the floor, that no one died after the whole critic shot thing.
02:48 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it seemed like the place for someone to die, there were a bunch of inquisitors, there was just a lot going on.
02:57 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, a lot of people died just nobody that we care about.
03:00 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, none of the main crew,
03:04 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: How about you guys?
03:06 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything?
03:07 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I kind of said some of my thoughts already, but overall, I mean, this this book is cooking.
03:12 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm my guy.
03:14 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We are full speed ahead.
03:15 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The plot is moving.
03:17 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We're, you know, we're breaking into the palace.
03:19 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We are going to balls.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_01]: We're meeting big characters.
03:24 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We are, you know, I, I forgot a lot of this book before I read it.
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually didn't remember the end of the credit show.
03:30 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was like to somebody die here and I don't remember.
03:38 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I forget that someone died is because it was tense and I I felt my heart beating I was like Brandon really knows how to write like a tense high scene.
03:45 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he He doesn't write them as much as he should though Well, take it up with the man himself.
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I know one day
03:56 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: for now we should get right into it and because there's a lot here we're doing a lot this week we're doing six chapters there largely shorter than the previous ones that's why we're doing six instead of five this week especially the last chapters like basically just an epilogue to these few chapters so
04:12 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's start off with Chapter 10, the section I'm tidling suder.
04:17 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Vin walks through a skyslum toward a soup kitchen.
04:21 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: There, she is ushered into a secret side room where breeze was waiting for her.
04:26 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He tells her that suing is not all about Alamansi, but also about manipulation.
04:31 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Ham arrives to debate whether what they're doing is good if the Lord ruler is God.
04:37 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Then Kelsey arrives to speak to the crowd in the main chamber.
04:41 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: With the help of Breeze's Southeres, he rallies the Scott to join the rebellion.
04:46 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Eden closes the presentation and accepts new recruits.
04:50 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Ham worries that they won't be able to recruit enough of an army in time.
04:55 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So, a lot of Lord Wraps here, right?
04:57 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got soothing and rioting, Aaron, you want to go into the difference between those and what Briggs has to say about it.
05:05 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so soothing and rioting just like all the other forms of alimancey is kind of that push and that pull or soothing sort of dampens the emotions that are happening with a person and rioting intensifies them.
05:19 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So the way breeze explains it is you kind of have to do a combination of both if you really want to be super effective.
05:28 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a one or the other type of thing.
05:32 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You can be pulling and pushing on those same emotions and get a better result out of the situation, which I think is a really cool way of describing it.
05:42 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting, because Breeze is someone who I don't want to trust at first, and I still kind of don't trust him, but he's someone that you can't trust, but he's on your side, so you're good for now.
05:57 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean manipulation being a part of Alam, of Alamansi or rather being a supplement to Alamansi was an interesting thing, right?
06:06 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Because
06:07 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsey here can bend your emotions, but he's not quite as smooth as breeze.
06:11 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why it's so cool that, you know, I live have been in her POVs.
06:16 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm working with an artist.
06:18 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: She only mean she's really like, I'm going to admire this all the sudden.
06:23 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's cool to see that character development where she's, she's realizing that it's not just friendship, but these are experts in their fields.
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they have a shout out what they're trying to do.
06:34 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's a really great way of making the Mistborn feel a little bit less like these all powerful beings when you have characters who, because they have that limited scope of abilities and what they can do, they've really specialized and gotten extremely good in a way that someone like Kelsey or just couldn't do because he's focused on too many different things.
06:56 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
06:57 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: right so ham is also here and ham which I this character still the the name does not sound great to me why are we calling him I guess that's a biblical name too right it's not I don't know where but uh ham I don't know it feels out of place does it feel out of place to you too I think it does yeah I don't know I feel like like breeze docs and Kelsey are all have sort of the same vibe to them and then he
07:23 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: ham, I am.
07:26 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hear you.
07:30 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's a smart dude and I found this quote over here from October 31st, 2006 where Brandon says about this chapter has one of my favorite of Ham's little philosophical dilemmas.
07:44 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Most people I've read had read the book, don't think much of this argument.
07:49 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems obvious to them that resisting the Lord ruler is the right thing for the people to do.
07:54 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that means I've done my work well, giving the readers a distinct hatred of this government.
07:59 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, I don't think the answer is that simple, not for the people living in the world.
08:03 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Ham has a point in my opinion, not a big one, but at least one worth considering.
08:09 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, these types of theological debates or just debates about morality in general, I think are some of the more interesting parts of this book.
08:19 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I, the idea that it could be wrong to kill this tyrannical, evil, vile person because they are, as far as you know, God, it really makes you think, and we'll get to the Stormlight stuff in a couple of years, but I think there's a lot of interesting
08:39 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_02]: what it means to be worshiped, or what it means to worship a certain God.
08:45 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and they, again, without saying anything too much, there is another debate, like an expanded debate of that, like, god level characters knowing what's right or what's wrong more than a human character, like a more human scaled character at least,
09:06 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I always liked that, uh, in this honestly, I kind of did overlook that, uh, so I'm kind of guilty of that.
09:16 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:16 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, it's interesting.
09:17 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is actually branded, telling on himself being an Abrahamic religion holder, right?
09:23 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, this idea that your God is perfect and that all, all that comes from the God is good.
09:28 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think is a distinctly Abrahamic belief, right?
09:32 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a lot of polytheistic religions largely have flawed gods, gods that fight gods that cause pain for humans.
09:38 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: and what they do, like Zeus is just a chaos agent, half the time, right?
09:42 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just impregnating people and pissing off his wife.
09:47 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this really is like Abrahamic theology here of what, of God being the source of good, rather than some being that can do good and can do evil, but then we get CZ.
10:01 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And CZ, we'll talk about it in another chapter, but like,
10:05 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you're like, is this, you know, who's writing this book is this really a Mormon man writing this book because he's bringing in all these other religions and think I believe them all, which is it distinctly not an Abrahamic belief, Abrahamic religions are very like, no, no, no, this is this is the way.
10:20 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's a complicated dude, and so I wanted to say there.
10:25 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_02]: He is very complicated and I appreciate how complicated he makes the theology in his universes.
10:32 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: There's always that a certain level of humanity happening.
10:37 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say that a lot of the religions are one of the most alluring parts of this series at least to me, but I don't, I guess I don't think about it like that or haven't thought about
10:54 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always looking, I'm always on Mormon watch when I read Brandon, but I spot it less than I always expect.
11:02 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:04 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:05 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he hides it well.
11:07 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
11:08 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually met someone the other day who told me that his son had taken a world-building class with Brandon Sanderson and that just made me infinitely jealous.
11:24 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to have a class on world building from one of, probably the best world builders at least in fantasy, I'm gonna say in fiction, just overall, would be an absolute tree.
11:37 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, I'm not a writer or anything, but I would love to take one of his classes, even for a semester, like a whole semester would be great.
11:46 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:48 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Kelsey here gives his big speech.
11:50 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Any thoughts on this strategy of, I mean, I've thought it was so cool that we have the different servers and whatnot going through with different colors, showing the suitors, which emotion to flame or tip suit.
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that that was so cool.
12:07 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like Breeze has a really good system set up.
12:11 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: for his, for his manipulations, and I feel like he treats us almost like a game.
12:19 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
12:19 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Or it reminds me a little bit of in the bear when they study up on all of their guests and their personalizing, their approach to each person based on what they can find about them on social media, just that going above and beyond to read people.
12:35 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:37 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that is a real thing that they do admission and start restaurants and like the really really good ones.
12:42 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, if someone's booking a night, we try to find them on social media and figure out what kind of person they are.
12:47 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get the menu that they want.
12:51 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just terrible.
12:51 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is like kind of trippy.
12:52 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I want that for myself.
12:55 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be researched like that.
12:57 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You can let me just enjoy the experience without all of the extras.
13:02 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Has a Michelin star researcher ever like I'd covered a crime or something.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to know, somebody write in with a story there.
13:10 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Make for a good news.
13:13 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so we've got a slow recruitment here.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the team is getting a little worried.
13:20 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Richard, do you want to tell us about some rooftop musings?
13:24 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, of course.
13:25 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: A Celciere is looking out towards Cretic Shaw, the Palace of the Lord Ruler, and remembers the last time he was there and how it ended.
13:33 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: As he thinks about the next time they're going to be there, Saises joins him on the roof.
13:38 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They discuss the risk of Saises being in Luthadel and Saises presents Celciere with the religion of
13:46 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Jayism, jaiism, I don't remember how they're jaiism, I think he did jaiism.
13:51 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Jaiism is a source of it.
13:53 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would make, that makes sense.
13:55 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So jaiism which had a martyr at its core and Kelsir quips that he should start or religion around killing noblemen.
14:02 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I would join that religion to be fair.
14:05 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a violent person, violence is bad, but I would join that.
14:08 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Serve Kelsir.
14:09 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Officer, we're not affiliated.
14:11 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Um.
14:14 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, do you think in this moment Kelsey here is like considering this martyr bit?
14:20 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he seems to be throwing himself into these dangerous situations for the sake of the mission.
14:27 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, is it actually for the sake of the mission or is it just him trying to be, you know, headstrong in their first?
14:35 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually have a different,
14:38 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: thing a different place that I went with this, at least the first time reading.
14:41 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of thought he had a death wish.
14:44 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though like, like everyone says it to him when he comes up with the plan or announces the plan to take down the Lord ruler and says it's suicide, I legitimately thought this man had a death wish because of just how much stupid stuff he decided to do in a short amount of time.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know.
15:02 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just me, I guess.
15:05 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, what about you?
15:07 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the first time I read it, I didn't necessarily view him as someone seeking death or martyrdom or anything like that.
15:16 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I just saw someone who truly did not care about consequences, who felt like they were already dead, having been through what he had been through.
15:26 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And at this point, everything is just extra.
15:38 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:40 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right.
15:42 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He also, uh, Kelsey here.
15:44 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: We learned it's kind of full of it because he's all like the 11th metal, the 11th metal, and apparently he's the one that started the rumors about it.
15:54 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, the 11th metal, like it's not a great look, man.
16:00 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's really not like everyone believe this lie that I just started, please, it's it's a little bit school yard starting a rumor about the teacher like something.
16:10 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of ridiculous and I think I think the biggest issue about the rumor is that he starts to believe it himself.
16:20 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The most dangerous kind of lie, right?
16:23 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a drunk on his own myth, a completely ready to just charge in a critic shot and kill the Lord, killed the Lord ruler with this magical make up and that he just happened to stumble upon.
16:35 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, man.
16:36 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_00]: For a little suspicious.
16:38 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, speaking of critic shot, we finally get that name dropped.
16:42 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's apparently the terrace name for the Lord rulers palace and it means the hill of a thousand spires and that is just cool imagery.
16:50 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, if you're going to build a palace, why not?
16:55 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
16:55 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It's that it's in terrorists speech as well.
16:59 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:00 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It is interesting.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also interesting.
17:02 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I, that a later on, I think it's, it's another chapter, but then notices.
17:06 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this thing doesn't even have walls because this guy's just not worried.
17:11 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And, and kind of makes sense after you see what happens over there.
17:15 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:17 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going, we don't need walls.
17:19 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If you had inquisitors garden you I don't think you'd need you'd worry about anything, honestly, right?
17:26 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course the Lord ruler controls the idioms apply and 90% of it is missing.
17:31 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So where is it?
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they could even get in, where is the idiom?
17:39 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: He said the big questions that they really need answers to if they're going to pull off a successful ice.
17:45 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
17:45 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing worse than breaking in somewhere and finding out the vault is empty.
17:50 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
17:53 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And we learned about the breeding program for Terrasman, which does not sound great.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You genics are never a great move.
17:58 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never one where you're like, oh, that's probably a bud board.
18:03 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
18:04 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Every fantasy book movie video game.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care what it is.
18:09 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_02]: As soon as you say that some group is performing eugenics, that's the number one sign that maybe you shouldn't be on their side.
18:17 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'd say that's true in the real world too.
18:20 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure.
18:20 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about fantasy.
18:21 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I think we can extrapolate that.
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the lesson we can dig for the real world.
18:25 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure.
18:27 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not the biggest expert on the lore, but I'm pretty sure Eugenics is one of like the founding principles of the umbrella corporation from Resident Evil, so like, really not a great track record.
18:39 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And the old Mary Dominion and the Elder Scrolls.
18:42 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that, not a good look.
18:46 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
18:47 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_02]: No, we're ready to regroup.
18:49 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron, where are we going next?
18:51 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So, Vin attends a meeting of the high screw where they lament the slow progress of army recruitment, and marshes having some trouble infiltrating the ministry, so Vin suggests that they use cameons old contract.
19:04 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_02]: The group worries about their secrecy, just then it came in.
19:08 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Just then doxon gets worried that cameons later was found by the ministry.
19:15 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: not great.
19:16 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Not great.
19:17 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We should probably just move right into the next one and talk about it all together.
19:23 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Other than, you know, we've been as contributing to the plant.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's pretty cool.
19:30 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:31 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: For chapter 11, Kate, uh,
19:34 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Ben and Kelsey are examined the torture and mutilated remains of Cayman's lair.
19:39 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Cesar says a prayer in an ancient religion for the deceased members and says he believes in every religion.
19:46 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelsey tracks down Cayman, who was found as a beggar, tortured and brutally hanged for misusing Vince Alamansi.
19:56 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: what a chapter.
19:57 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean this isn't a long one but this is it really shows the reach and the commitment of the empire when it comes to punishing criminals, punishing people harboring elementers, anything along those lines they are how fire and fury the whole way.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
20:16 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And we learn that there's only 20 inquisitors in the whole of the final empire, which tells you a lot of things about them if they're so feared and well known across the whole empire, and there's only 20 of them.
20:31 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It makes you wonder why there's only 20 is it because that's all the Lord ruler needs, is it because this is a difficult process to create more inquisitors,
20:43 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, a lot of, a lot of questions about the logistics, as always I can lost in the weeds.
20:49 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, especially because later you have 30% of Luthydel's inquisitors waiting for calcium.
20:56 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:56 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, what, what is that about, just just waiting behind a door form?
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:03 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, those are the actions of a Lord ruler who's afraid of calcium
21:11 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelsey your misfortune.
21:12 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I can almost his full name.
21:13 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost said Kelsey or Stormblast when you said that Not great crossover everybody crossover Yeah, so it came in doubt of really bad death and the interesting to me thing to me here is he didn't even use elements He just had someone with him who used elementy and he still gets the brutal Alamedic death
21:38 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, the whole crew, they were just kind of there.
21:42 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even, they weren't aware of Vincel and Nancy.
21:45 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I fully believe that Cayman was at least somewhat aware of what was going on, because I mean, how would everything happen to go better when she's there versus when she's not, other than something along those lines?
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's just insane that they butcher it all of those people.
22:06 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is probably, you know, just a consequence of having all of our main characters, all of our POV characters, be characters who are like heavily involved in the conspiracy, but for in the prologue, Kelsey is like, oh, these are powers that the scar aren't even supposed to know.
22:21 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, and I'm like, it's simply like everybody knows they exist, like, this is like the worst kept secret in Lutherdale.
22:28 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.
22:30 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's one of those open secret type of deals for sure.
22:35 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And from what I remember, Cayman wasn't even fully aware of what Vin was doing with the Alomansi.
22:43 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, she wasn't really aware of it, but it seems like maybe he didn't, he had more of an understanding than she did, but he was still not completely placing where that luck was coming from.
22:56 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough, right?
22:57 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not from his POV.
22:58 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He could have understood, and just she thought she was pulling one over on him.
23:04 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Although maybe she didn't, like she was pulling one over on him because again, she kind of just didn't even really know what she was doing.
23:08 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But I tend to think that they came in new enough about Alamansu just from his, you know, being around.
23:14 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially if he knew Kelsey or I know Kelsey or was not a misfortune prior to him coming back.
23:21 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: At least for his time in Louisville, but I don't know.
23:24 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I get the sense that he came in new more than he's letting on.
23:26 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason he became a crew leader, you know.
23:33 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let's go to the ball, chapter 12, the inaugural ball.
23:40 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_01]: With reassurance from Kels Heron says Ed, Vinn attends her first ball at Keep Venture.
23:46 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Once Vinn finishes eating, says Ed leaves to Eve drop on the other stewards, for noblemen invite Vinn to dance but she politely declines.
23:55 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_01]: She then spots her father and obligator, wanting some space from the party.
23:59 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She heads to a private balcony.
24:02 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_01]: where she's interrupted by a poorly mannered young man named Ellen, who has nothing but bad thanks to say about House Venture.
24:11 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: When Windfinn sees it, he tells her that was actually Ellen Venture, heir to the House seat.
24:20 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's fun.
24:21 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I forgot how like charming Ellen is,
24:29 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that the ball seen or the ball chapters are some of my favorite in this book, which I wasn't expecting going into it.
24:36 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I knew that it was a big part of the book from talking to Richard about the series.
24:41 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's like, oh, those are going to be ones I wish I was skipping.
24:45 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of intrigue.
24:47 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of just interesting personal connections being made as well.
24:52 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's always that tension that at any moment, then could be figured out
25:01 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I'm kind of with you where when I went into these scenes, I was not expecting to enjoy them as much as I did.
25:08 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The first one for me really set the pace, like with Vince father being there, that was one source of like oh shit.
25:16 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: then her meeting Ellen, and then finding out that he was actually the heir to the venture fortune is just another bombshell that's being dropped and it just got more and more stressful.
25:29 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I kept thinking to look out for like signs that she's maybe being sued or rioted or having some kind of elementic interaction with someone else.
25:42 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I like you said the intrigue really, but political intrigue really like made this more interesting for me.
25:51 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I was most surprised in this chapter that, say, said, actually left Vin alone on their first time out at one of these balls.
26:00 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense.
26:01 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It would have been suspicious for him to stay, but it did surprise me a little bit that,
26:06 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: this young lady who is living on the streets no more than a couple months ago is now by herself doing full on espionage at a ball full of the most rich and powerful people in the whole country.
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's part of this whole thing though, right?
26:22 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like they all know that there's a million ways this can go wrong.
26:27 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They just have to kind of trust in at some point.
26:30 --> 26:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think kind of internalizes that
26:36 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a spy and I'd like to that, you know, as much as Vin is, you know, she doubts herself, she's distrustful.
26:46 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_01]: She's got a lot of baggage in terms of her, you know, her trauma and her upbringing.
26:52 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really great that she kind of leans into it after a minute.
26:57 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: and she's like, I can do this.
26:59 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That was good writing to me.
27:02 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need a damsel and distress character.
27:04 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I can have someone have a healthy sense of self-scepticism without falling into a pit of despair and being rescued by Ellen Venture.
27:13 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, she's basically lecturing Ellen Venture on her first time meeting him, and that's hilarious to me.
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Any other first thoughts on Ellen?
27:25 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I liked him as soon as he, as soon as he opened his mouth, what can I say, Ellen throughout the series is one of my favorite characters, and that's really all I can say, given our short first impression.
27:39 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do would bring a book.
27:42 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just about to say, any character who brings a book to a party and stands in the corner has my heart immediately.
27:49 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_02]: That's me.
27:51 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's low key me at work.
27:54 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I I pop my ear buds in and I work like a dog But I'm listening to audio books the whole time.
28:01 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm having a blast That's how it's yeah, yeah It is how it should be What else we have also house venture we learn is a lot it's very far above-vindestation and so this might actually mess up the whole plan
28:19 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:20 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Not only are they one of the great houses, they're basically the great house.
28:26 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is Bruce Wayne's mansion over here, right?
28:29 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, uh, we're heading right to the headquarters.
28:33 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Aaron, you want to read, uh, no, you don't want, let's say a break.
28:38 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, let's take a break and come back and finish this set of chapters.
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We're back, Aaron, can you read us chapter 13?
28:57 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into it.
28:59 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Adium.
29:00 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So, then and say, is it radium?
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an idiom.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an idiom, gosh.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we got an idiom.
29:06 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_02]: We got to correct that right away.
29:08 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, okay, okay.
29:10 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like you guys need a spray bottle for me for my bad pronunciation.
29:14 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we are recording virtually.
29:16 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's not gonna work out.
29:18 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_00]: 80, like five dollars on Venmo, that'll be like your swear jar, but for this little too rich for my words.
29:25 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an expensive, yeah, that's an expensive swear jar.
29:27 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: How about a quarter?
29:28 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do a quarter.
29:28 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, let's do a quarter.
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I can deal with that.
29:30 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll settle up at the end of the month.
29:33 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So Vinnence is a debrief about her chance meeting with Ellen Venture.
29:37 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_02]: While Kelsey her pretends to be unbothered, he notes that this complicates her undercover mission.
29:43 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelser speeds off to Lufadel on a secret Mistborn road that Vin follows him on very discreetly.
29:50 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_02]: When she catches up with him, she insists on joining him in his infiltration into the Lord Ruler's Palace.
29:58 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelser relents but not before teaching Vin to use Adium, the rarest of the 10 medals.
30:04 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_02]: With Adium, you can see a person's next action, a little glimpse into the future.
30:09 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the other person as idiom, you have the Spider-Man meme where everyone's pointing at each other.
30:15 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what did you guys think about the way that idiom works, the way that it's sort of described as shadows almost of people's actions?
30:25 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds very disorienting.
30:28 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the opposite of bellfire from the wheel of time, and this is like not super big-spolitional built up.
30:35 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really just a mechanic.
30:36 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_01]: bellfire if you're hit by it in the wheel of time, you are killed, but you're killed a tiny bit in the past, just like a second or two in the past.
30:50 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it says if your last couple actions didn't happen, if the more powerful the person casting, you know, using the bellfire, the further back in time, you can do.
31:01 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So you could, if you're really powerfully, you can undo like a few minutes of somebody's actions.
31:06 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: to the point where like, if someone like killed somebody, you would undo the killing.
31:12 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:13 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:13 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I am similar system.
31:16 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I will not say what it's from or who uses it because it would be a spoiler for for that.
31:22 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically this character can see slightly into the future.
31:26 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if he's in a duel or whatever, he can see the next move.
31:31 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But he can also choose what the next move the person makes is.
31:35 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He can see like the infinite possibilities.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really weird.
31:38 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's
31:42 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: but he can essentially choose from those myriad possibilities what happens unless the other person has something similar to that.
31:51 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really weird system but it's cool and it's done really well in those books.
31:57 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That is cool, but yeah so idiom basically the opposite of these things.
32:02 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Well it's closer to your thing.
32:03 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the opposite of the thing I was talking about because you're
32:09 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm kind of, I kind of like this idea of like this is an extreme edge, but if you, if the other person has it, it's like useless.
32:20 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, and it also runs out really quickly.
32:23 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_02]: So you better hope whatever, Tussle you're getting into is going to be over quick.
32:29 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true to, but also like,
32:33 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of interesting that this is kind of the cost of doing business.
32:37 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're doing high-level misborn duals, right, because it's expensive.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't have it, and the other person does have it, you're screwed.
32:44 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is like another way where sure the powers of elements he are restricted to the nobles.
32:54 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But also like the resources are kind of restricted to the nobles, right?
32:57 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that Kelsir has had a longer time to go steal and get the resources for
33:03 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it is definitely a scarcity created by the Lord ruler.
33:10 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_02]: We, I want to say it was in our last batch of chapters where they talk about how the Lord ruler hordes pretty much all of the adium for himself and gives out just the tiniest little fraction quarter.
33:25 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting confused, it's like an ATM, you know, ATM, ATM, ATM, okay.
33:31 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've got it now, but yeah, he hordes most of it, most of the metal that I can't pronounce and only gives out a little bit.
33:40 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just that tiny little bit.
33:43 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:44 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a golden egg, right?
33:48 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even say he
33:52 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And we know that we're there over there, but it's your way of comics.
33:56 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We work so well.
33:57 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to trickle down one day.
33:59 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still waiting.
34:01 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We all.
34:05 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it also burns by itself in a few hours.
34:10 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's interesting because you can't, you can't just hold it, like you do the other allomantic metals.
34:15 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Kelsey or Warren's been like the other allomantic metals, make sure you burn it before you go to sleep and with ADM, he's like, don't even take it, unless you need it, because this will just burn up.
34:26 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess he didn't specify if you get sick from it, digesting, but your stomach acids digest it very quickly.
34:33 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Seems like.
34:34 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:35 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have to assume you do.
34:38 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like metal just can't be good for, you know, matter what metal it is.
34:44 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But definitely not something that lets you see into the future, there's gotta be something up with that.
34:50 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:51 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I also think it's interesting that the metal that lets you see into the future is so far the only metal and elements that
35:02 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that all of the other ones are actual metals and alloys.
35:05 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_02]: You haven't seen my alien ring?
35:08 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what your wedding ring is made of?
35:09 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what my wedding ring is made out of.
35:12 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But you're right, that is interesting, right?
35:13 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we did these nine metals and you're like, okay, go and find those in the wild and I guess not the wild.
35:20 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the Smith, yeah.
35:22 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have Smith's still?
35:24 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we must have Smith's still.
35:25 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that, like steel mills are kind of Smith's just industrialized.
35:32 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go to the county fair, see a local blacksmith.
35:38 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to, let me just be a blacksmith.
35:41 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You've ever watched, you've watched those people who take off the horses and they trim the horses and then put them back on.
35:48 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
35:49 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_01]: How much do you talk to those?
35:50 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They're satisfying.
35:52 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's fun to watch.
35:54 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I might my favorite it's not it's not smithing related, but now I have to tell you that I love Nate the hoof guy, if anyone knows Nate the hoof guy, he does cow hooves all night.
36:04 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Big snowy striving.
36:05 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He talks you through.
36:05 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, this is a white line fracture.
36:07 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, of course, of course, it's a white line fracture.
36:10 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's let's work through it.
36:14 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
36:14 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, chapter 14.
36:17 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron.
36:18 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go on.
36:20 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So, infiltration and rescue.
36:23 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelsir and Vince sneak into Cretac Shaw seeking the Lord ruler's secret interchange where he spends three hours daily.
36:30 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelsir kills wave after wave of guard and then has her first four kills ever.
36:36 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: when they arrive at the secret chamber, three inquisitors greet them, and Kelsier appears to be defeated.
36:42 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Vin Berley gets away using a book as a shield, left with a near fatal wound, wound she is rescued by a kind face.
36:51 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_02]: This is one of those chapters, again, I'm working my way through the Stormlight Archive, so I'm gonna bring it up, but I think that Sanderson writes disorientation very well, which is kind of a random thing,
37:07 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever he writes a character in a disoriented state, I feel it.
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh, what is happening?
37:13 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm confused as an audience member, and it is in a sense, by the way.
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you're not lost, right?
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You're disoriented.
37:22 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You're just, oh my god, I can't talk tonight.
37:24 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You're disoriented, but you're not lost.
37:27 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's kind of refreshing.
37:29 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He, you know, if a character is going to get beat to crap, he's really good with that.
37:35 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
37:37 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I also in Stormway, I do like when certain characters have like a little spiral and you can really just feel what they're feeling, like there's no, you don't even have to really think about it too hard because it just kind of flows well with how he writes it and it does happen here and there in Missborn, but I feel like it happens more, or at least in a
38:08 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's right.
38:10 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Stormlight, I think is just a better series.
38:13 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: In general, like I enjoy it, right?
38:15 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think he's more mature as a writer, and he's writing it at a different.
38:20 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_01]: he's it's a different tone for him and I enjoy that tone a little more.
38:22 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But even here, which is one of his first, you know, published books, I know he wrote a number of books before he started publishing, but even here with one of his first published books, he's still nailing this, like Aaron was saying, he's still nailing this whole, you know, disorienting fight.
38:37 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's cool because it's very immersive.
38:41 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is one thing in this chapter that I feel like wasn't
38:47 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: expanded upon as much as I typically would like in other books and that's when Vin gets her first few kills like she doesn't I feel like at least in in my case and I think that the average person like after killing someone would kind of have a little
39:04 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: would be spiraling without all of the other stuff that's happening, or would be disoriented without everything else, and I feel like it's not expanded upon as much, but I also think he does a better job with that in the future books.
39:19 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if I'm going to defend this on its own merits, Vin is in the middle of like,
39:25 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that adrenaline rush of battle.
39:27 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't really have a minute to think about it.
39:32 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the time she does have a minute to think about it, she's basically dying, you know, she's just mortally wounded and just getting stitch stopped.
39:38 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I don't know when she would have considered that.
39:43 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't remember if she does like a big like what the heck have I done in a future chapter, but well, I guess we'll see that next week.
39:51 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there was one in a future chat.
39:54 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's, I guess more what I'm getting at is that I don't remember they're being any like.
40:01 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_00]: pondering and come up like yeah come up and I like I don't know I feel like if you kill someone especially for people even if it is in a life or death situation like you're gonna tweak out a little bit because you did just kill someone yeah or multiple someone's I think you know through go ahead to Aaron I think that's true but at the same time Vin has had a really hard life and I think that she's
40:28 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_02]: terrible tragedies around her.
40:30 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think she might be a little de-sensitized to the violence, but John, go ahead.
40:34 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_02]: What were you going to say?
40:35 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's exactly what I was going to say is, um, you know, she hasn't killed somebody before, but she'd watch somebody be killed before.
40:41 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is a much smaller step for her than it is for any of us, because I don't know about YouTube, but I've never witnessed someone being murdered.
40:50 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope to never witness somebody being murdered.
40:54 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But Vin has, Vin has witnessed her brother and came in and all these other people committing serious violence.
41:00 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And so her doing the violence is a step, but it's just less of a shift mentally, I think, than what she's experienced before.
41:08 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense.
41:11 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I guess I didn't think about it as much from her perspective, and I,
41:15 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely could have considered a bit more you're like I would be crying like the baby.
41:20 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, oh my god Yeah, I Like even if I can you demonstrate the vacation I mean like no Let's do a YouTube short of it.
41:31 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_01]: How about that?
41:33 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah Richard crying command.
41:35 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right Well You're the new Brad pit you can just you can do it all I wish
41:45 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_01]: it's this is uh... tough scene to watch vignette beat up with calciar telling her to run and having to do it through times i really like that like she was you know that that's the other thing like you know we're talking about vignette not really reacting to the kills but she kind of does for his up for a little bit right she's just like oh these murderous in uh... inquisitors right in front of us vignan run and she's like ha
42:09 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to do it two more times and it finally syncs at it.
42:12 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: She runs away and then of course She's like, you're here and says it's like shut up.
42:18 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm bringing you home To the school.
42:23 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a he's always the responsible adult in the room too Yes, yes, the whole the whole trilogy is just him baby sitting everyone I swear
42:35 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know anything about his powers at this point, right?
42:38 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that he is powerful.
42:40 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We just don't know what he can do, especially as a terrorist man, as a keeper.
42:46 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know exactly what he could do here, but clearly he could do something if he's able to rescue him from inquisitors.
42:54 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to get to Luther Delph from the Renewmenter in no time at all, this pretty crazy too.
43:04 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We also get one more Lord up here.
43:07 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_01]: There is apparently a wave of depression that just goes around, the Lord ruler, if you near him, you're like, I'm feeling really sad to have, you know, this darkness that emanates around him.
43:17 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_01]: What is that about?
43:19 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I always took that to be, would be two kind of two things that once would be like a bubble of like soothing and a bubble of writing, probably soothing,
43:32 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_00]: positive emotion and then rioting negative would be my guess, you know, if he could project it in sort of like a bubble shape around him, I don't really know if that's possible, but I feel like it could be.
43:47 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Could be Aaron and you have any ideas?
43:51 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I sort of had a similar read to Richard of it's just a really powerful form of soothing and rioting that the Lord ruler is pulling off.
44:00 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that maybe there was some sort of third kind of soothing, rioting emotional elementsy when I read it the first time, just because especially with Kelsey, you're talking about the 11th metal and learning
44:15 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_02]: that there's more to element see than anyone really knows.
44:20 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I sort of ran with the idea that maybe the Lord ruler has unlocked some ability that everyone else hasn't.
44:28 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, like maybe there's more if you pull back the curtains and just look.
44:36 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:36 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially because I think she also makes sort of like these are all meddles people of tests at right and they're not going to be free with the testing because you could die if you burn a non-elementic metal.
44:48 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough tough gig here.
44:52 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing with it is Vain says that when she critters her copper on it goes away, but then you know we talked about her not feeling a lot about killing people, but.
45:01 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Around that time is she's like, I have my copper on, but I'm still feeling really depressed and you're like, it's real depression then you're just depressed.
45:12 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:13 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Go to therapy.
45:15 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_01]: She's got a lot to be depressed about.
45:17 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_01]: She does have a lot to be depressed about our poor then.
45:19 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's been through so much at 15 or 16.
45:24 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something like that.
45:26 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she was supposed to be 16.
45:28 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:29 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm wrong.
45:32 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, last chapter, Richard, you want to read it?
45:35 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
45:37 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelseyur makes it back to clubs' workshop and the crew gives Kelseyur a justifiably hard time about taking Vin into the Lord Brewer's palace.
45:45 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_00]: While they're worried about her fate, Cesar arrives carrying the wounded Vin.
45:50 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_00]: He feeds her pewter and performs surgery to save her life.
45:53 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Cesar presents Kelseyur with the book Vin used and promises to attempt to translate it.
46:05 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not surprised about that one though.
46:07 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the God killing super weapon probably didn't come with an instruction book.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Tony Stark built this in a cave.
46:14 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You can get it to work.
46:16 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelp fair enough.
46:20 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, you can see that coming from my way, right?
46:22 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I didn't even remember what happened with the 11th metal, but I just, from the way Kelsea is talking about it earlier, like, oh, he does not know what this does.
46:31 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He absolutely does.
46:34 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: he's just he happened and that's fine.
46:37 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we love to see Kelsey or make some good speeches, but he does not know how to back him up with with with action at all times, at least.
46:48 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and sometimes he knows how to back him up with too much action, like when he brings a child into the Lord Ruler's palace without a plan.
46:57 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just take your kid to what day.
47:00 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's like, well, last time I planned it meticulously, it would terribly wrong.
47:04 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just not going to plan this time.
47:05 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, and in throw a kid in the mix.
47:10 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Wrong lesson, buddy.
47:11 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Wrong lesson.
47:15 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that his attitude about his own life, not being so valuable, is leading him to put others in danger, particularly, then like does he have that same mindset that other people's lives?
47:28 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_02]: maybe don't matter so much because he has that mindset about himself.
47:33 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he certainly thinks that they are all, all of their lives are worth sacrificing if it takes down this empire and it frees this guy.
47:40 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is his calculus here.
47:42 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, I just don't know if he thinks that far ahead.
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
47:50 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd put them in like the category of like the character being blinded by revenge, like I know it's kind of a worn out trope and it's done literally every time someone has someone wants to get revenge But it also works like every time that it's done right and there's a reason it's a hit right.
48:09 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
48:11 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I Think the best show movie book whatever to do it though was full metal alchemist
48:18 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: People listening to that, who think I'm wrong?
48:21 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, argue with a wall if you think I'm wrong.
48:23 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Aaron, finish full metal out with the mist, please.
48:26 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get on it.
48:26 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get on it.
48:27 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll do that with the bb5 episode.
48:30 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll do a full metal out with the mist comparison episode.
48:33 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll get on full metal alchemist as soon as my background stops eating me.
48:41 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, yeah, I mean, I do like that the whole crew ribs Kelsey are new one because he deserves it here.
48:50 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And especially docks and you know docks of me, Kelsey is oldest friend the most loyal.
48:54 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_01]: What he's like, are you kidding me?
48:56 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You brought her into credit shop.
48:59 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_01]: really like that also really like how says that doesn't get mad at Kelsey or he's just like I'm going to solve this problem calmly go get me my tools now I'm going to bed good night everyone and that's why says it is the go I mean every time he never fails to deliver yeah of course we learn there that you know Kelsey is like yeah keepers don't only keep religions they have a lot of
49:30 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Good to know.
49:30 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good to know, I think.
49:35 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wonder if there could possibly be other stuff he knows that that we're going to find out at some point in the book.
49:44 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there is one of the things he doesn't seem to know right now is the language of clenny I don't know if I'm saying that one right so I'll put a quarter in some jar but that's the language that the Lord ruler's book which is written in and it's also the Lord ruler's native language so yeah there's book that vid was using the block full spikes now might come in handy yeah
50:10 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_02]: very interesting that Cretic Shaw is a terrorist term and the Lord rulers book is written in clenny.
50:19 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Very some to think about right there.
50:23 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: There are pieces of a puzzle somewhere in this book.
50:27 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you that.
50:28 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's check-offs book.
50:29 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
50:29 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's check-offs book.
50:30 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's put that aside and we'll come back to that later.
50:37 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a short chapter.
50:38 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, it's funny because we did six chapters this week, but this took us less time the last week because they weren't very dense chapters.
50:43 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They were really action-based.
50:45 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:46 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:48 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So any other thoughts on these chapters?
50:53 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I think because they're short chapters, I got like nothing, man.
50:57 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_01]: We've milked them dry.
50:58 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I got it.
50:59 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
50:59 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_02]: No more metal spurn.
51:02 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I've burned all my adding.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't see into the future anymore.
51:05 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Quarter, quarter, right.
51:07 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Idiom.
51:07 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I keep doing it.
51:09 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I swear it's not a purpose.
51:11 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, no matter, that is just a quarter.
51:13 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to bankrupt you before the book's done.
51:16 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably.
51:17 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to hear, if Aaron gets better at pronouncing idiom, don't forget to come back next week where we're going to do chapters 16 through 20.
51:26 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be doing 50 to 70 pages per week.
51:30 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_01]: will let you know the books full schedule every time we start a new book you can check the show notes right now for the schedule for missport in the final empire.
51:38 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The weekly pods are and will remain public and free with ads.
51:41 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You will get ad free episodes and bonus pods, including spoiler connections for the other books in the Cosmere.
51:49 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And just, you know, fun thematic stuff like we're going to be talking to a professor about metallurgy and
51:58 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So although all those kinds of things will be on the bonus feed, which like I said earlier, you can get for three bucks a month as an early bird special, or later you can get it for five bucks a month, both pretty good deals.
52:10 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for everything in the show notes, including our feeble book club where you can read along with us, discuss the chapters in a way that's, you know,
52:19 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... siloed for different spoilers uh... and uh... yeah just connect with us you know so go on the lower-hounds discord server to talk with us there or send us an email to cosmic at the lower-hounds dot com around everybody it's been fun been having fun doing another week of the cosmic with you too and uh... i guess i'll see you all on chapter sixteen see if for chapter sixteen can't wait