John, Aaron, and Richard discuss Vin's return to noble society and discover secrets within secrets.
https://linktr.ee/cosmerecorner
Schedule for Mistborn: The Final Empire
-8/7/2026 - Prologue
-8/14/2026 - Ch 1-5
-8/21/2026 - Ch 6-9
-8/28/2026 - Ch 10-15
-10/9/2026 - Ch 16-20
-10/23/2026 - Ch 21-25
-11/6/2026 - Ch 26-30
-11/20/2026 - Ch 31-35
-12/4/2026 - Ch 36-Epilogue
Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
00:11 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Cosmere Corner, a recap and analysis of the works of Brandon Sanderson.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm John.
00:16 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Aaron.
00:17 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Richard.
00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is going to be our coverage of chapter 16 through 20 of Ms. Born the final empire.
00:24 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this episode, we're going to be talking about noble assassinations, band books, and some scrawny informants.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Spoiler warning, by the way.
00:34 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_02]: for everything that we've read so far, which is the prologue through chapter 20 of Ms. Born, the final empire.
00:43 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, we've been planning this episode a while.
00:46 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It took us a while to get back to the mics after our last recording.
00:48 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's ease into it a little bit.
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron, what do you think of these chapters?
00:55 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought this was a great transition into the midsection of the book.
01:03 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_01]: basic setup stuff, some character development, but there's a lot here to like, especially when it builds on the mystery of what's going on with SayZed and you know, it's also great to see Vin coming into her own a little bit with that's kind of the thesis of this book is Vin growing and becoming the Mistborn she's meant to be, but it is fun to watch it unfold nonetheless.
01:28 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Vin is going through a lot through this whole book and she's I guess kind of she goes from her like darkest moment to her best moments for a little bit, you know, this is her best moments so far at least that we've seen.
01:42 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And so this is kind of a whirlwind of things for Vin and then of course you have the aftermath of Kelsir's reckless sense which I think is another really important part of this set of chapters Richard, would you think?
01:55 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I, for this set of chapters, really liked that we got to see more of season and his development was really interesting as well as kind of finding out what's going on with him.
02:04 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Aaron said, like you kind of unravel that mystery a bit here and we also get a little bit more on spook or less to
02:15 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: list of born as list of bone as I don't know can we just start calling them spook I mean he's gonna be called spook spook spook spook spook 100% let's just my guy list of born is spook yeah he is one of my favorite characters in the series so I'm just happy he's finally he's finally doing something
02:33 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_02]: He exists finally, he's acknowledged as a character.
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's a great character.
02:37 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to have to see why he's your favorite as we go forward.
02:41 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But for now, I think we could just say his nickname is Spook.
02:45 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all right.
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a spoiler to say his name is Spook.
02:48 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not because of something he like does or something.
02:50 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just that's his nickname.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody knows him as that.
02:54 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's just move forward with that.
02:56 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:58 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So why don't we get right into it?
03:01 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Erin, you did a lovely job outwriting these chapters this week, so you want to get started?
03:07 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to, yeah.
03:09 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So we start off with Vins Awakening.
03:10 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Then finally wakes up after her clash with the inquisitors atop the peaks of credit Shaw, thinking that the pain she's feeling must be a result of a beating from her brother
03:25 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Clebs' nephew, Lesterborns, now with the moniker Spook at Kelsey's suggestion, tells Vin that she's been recovering for two whole weeks.
03:35 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness.
03:36 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been asleep for a while, hasn't she?
03:39 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's funny because this and many other, you know, fiction pieces, especially in fantasy, sci-fi, anything dramatic or like, yeah, they got knocked out for a while and you're like, if that happens in the real world, like, they're going to be evaluating you for traumatic brain injury for all, you know, it's like an episode of the pit almost.
04:01 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And in these, it's like, oh, she's awake now, so let's get her back to the ball.
04:05 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just throw her right back in a danger.
04:08 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
04:09 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: She's ready to get back into it.
04:11 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: She's been bedridden for two weeks.
04:13 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She's got all that energy, pent up.
04:16 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess I would be too.
04:18 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd take two weeks to sleep.
04:20 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you kidding me?
04:21 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:21 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:23 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to recover story that the Lady Violet has fallen ill, and it was just sort of long enough that nobody got too suspicious about it, but if she had stayed in bed for too much longer, it was going to become a bigger problem for the nobles of like, okay, where is this girl?
04:40 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: She shows up and then immediately disappears, something is fishy here.
04:44 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the other thing too is I really liked how it felt very realistic that she was dreaming of her childhood more, you know, and often when you're through, you know, a traumatic event or you're like in a really deep sleep, your mind just reverts to that primal state of where you were, when you were ten or something, you know, so she's imagining that she's gotten beat up by her brother.
05:09 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's not, it's not a sweet when it happens with Finn because she had a abusive childhood, but I, I like that Brennan has that sort of realistic moment that makes her feel relatable in this fantasy world.
05:20 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
05:23 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also really enjoyed Vince speculation before she speaks to say, is that about, oh my god, this guy rescued me with seemingly superhuman abilities.
05:36 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't,
05:37 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Alomansy, what in the world is this guy?
05:41 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's something Sanderson does really well in Mistborn is stringing you along with what's the next thing.
05:49 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is almost a parallel for what's happening in the story as Vin has those thoughts about Kelceirov.
05:56 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: What is he hiding from me?
05:58 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: What is he going to reveal to me next?
06:00 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And as audience members, we're kind of having those same thoughts.
06:04 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Always another secret right don't don't do it doesn't she think that quite kind of a lot I feel like Brandon's kind of winking at you when he says that he's like always another secret Absolutely hey we're on video now.
06:16 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So now I can do a weird wink.
06:18 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_02]: This is great Always primary we're doing on YouTube Richard you have any thoughts on this section
06:28 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, honestly, I, I don't have a whole lot to say, uh, for this, this bit, the next bit.
06:35 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I got some stuff, all right, but, um, the one thing that I did like, maybe not like, because it's, it's horrible, but her hearing reans of voice is always, uh, just a very interesting, like, trauma response that she has, like, it always plays really well into the narrative
06:57 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's more I have to say about that, but I just can't.
07:01 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't get my thoughts together on that.
07:03 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll come back to that if I think of it.
07:06 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we go into the next section, and they return to Felice.
07:11 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Vin returns via carrots to Renew matter, where the Imposter Lord Renew reads her with an eerie commitment to never breaking character.
07:19 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_02]: As Vin slides back into the persona of Lady Valette, she seeks out Sazad.
07:24 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_02]: There are many questions to ask the Terrasman Stewart.
07:27 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So Richard, you had a lot of thoughts on this section.
07:30 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to give you time to cook here.
07:32 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
07:33 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The book that they found and sees it is translating it.
07:39 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: When I first got to this part in the book, all I could think about was like, what is the book?
07:45 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I won't say what it is because it is kind of spoilery.
07:49 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you pay enough attention to it,
07:55 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: start you could piece it together and maybe have the answer by the time that they find the book.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not get there.
08:02 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about you guys, but that was like one of the big mysteries for me in this section.
08:07 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I got there much later.
08:11 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I figured it out much later.
08:13 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe before the reveal, but not not too long before the reveal.
08:17 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:19 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And moving on to that, on to spoiler
08:24 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Keeper powers, there's something going on at this point.
08:28 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We say that we'll not tell us enough, which is really unfortunate because I know that I was just on the edge of my seat, like looking for an explanation of what he can do.
08:38 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: There were led to believe though that there's definitely some form of
08:44 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some reason for this extreme secrecy where he won't even tell his trusted companions in the crew.
08:51 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming Kelsey knows, but that seems to be about it for people who are in the know on what's up with him.
09:00 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so he gives you a lot of backstory on the terraceman, right?
09:04 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't tell you exactly what a keeper can do.
09:07 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_02]: He just tells you who keeper can do a lot.
09:09 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_02]: But he does really highlight the brutality of how the terraceman retreated.
09:14 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of people will go like, well, you know,
09:19 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_02]: This is something that you hear the noblemen say like right right then there's peace, there's peace under the Lord ruler But at what cost right you have these these castrated Terrasmen With it Terrasmen stewards you have a breeding program literally you Gen X and forced sterilization.
09:34 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's awful absolutely horrible and it doesn't shy away from the Hars of a totalitarian regime the Hars of slavery the Hars of
09:43 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So this caste system, and I'm glad that Brandon doesn't shy away from those things because it shows why we moved on from these things, right?
09:53 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Why these, you know, these are not institutions that we should accept in society.
09:59 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and all of those things stem from in this universe, the Lord ruler being afraid of what the keepers can do and this idea that
10:09 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: something about them is special enough that they could bring him down in some fashion, which is really fascinating from a first-time perspective, thinking, God, what can these guys do that the Lord ruler would be so genuinely terrified of them?
10:26 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
10:28 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It's tricky.
10:29 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's tricky, and Cesar is not going to let go of his secrets that easily, even for Vin.
10:36 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Even for Vin.
10:38 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the last big thing in this chapter was the revelation that many people think that it was Mayor Kelsey or his wife who is the one to betrayed Kelsey or I'm not sure how Kelsey or Phil's about say he's been revealing that information to people but yeah he decides to spill that secret to then.
11:02 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a big one, right?
11:04 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of, I believe they hinted at that or they briefly mentioned it earlier on, but this is where Ben really got to know it.
11:12 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Ben's someone who is defined herself on betrayal.
11:17 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's almost more important for her to find out now because now she's seen the way he, she's seen Kelsir talk the talk and walk the walk, right?
11:29 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to trust you, we're going to trust each other or this won't work.
11:33 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Even though he's been betrayed before and I think that that kind of gives her a model to say, I can trust again too.
11:40 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_02]: If he can if he can trust after the person he trusted most in the world to trade him, then I can trust again too, even though my brother betrayed me and came in and whoever else.
11:51 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's good character development here.
11:53 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I feel like this is where she starts to see him as maybe a bit more than just like a dude who she has to work with.
12:01 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like she starts to see him in more of a at least friendly light in this set of chapters.
12:07 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I know like later they talk a bit more about her and Kelsey were talking about what happened with Mayor and they definitely start to form that like almost father-daughter relationship, which is just so wonderful.
12:18 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I love found family.
12:20 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the best trope.
12:22 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good trope.
12:23 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I found that, you know, I'm a dirty millennial as you too now, you two are Gen Zers, but I'm a dirty millennial, and I think our generation kind of like hopped on the found family train, like we were like the friends giving generation and things like that.
12:41 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's reflective of media now, right?
12:42 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Because,
12:43 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Now that millennials are making more media and I don't know if Brendan is considered a millennial or V's Gen X, he's at least a cuspire.
12:50 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But now that we're more in that media zone, you're seeing a lot more of that family, found family, found family, found family in in books and TV, and movies, all that kind of stuff.
13:01 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's fun for me.
13:05 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that something Genzi is kind of stolen from the millennials as well as our media has started to come out.
13:11 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We've had some pretty strong found family themes too.
13:14 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we steal a lot from you guys even though we don't like to admit that we looked up to the millennials.
13:21 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.
13:21 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.
13:23 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_02]: One day the Jenna, my Jenna Alpha kids will be calling y'all old and lame.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's fine.
13:30 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.
13:32 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's go on to chapter 17, a crew reunion, Aaron, Vince boring lunch with her fake uncle is cut short by a visit from Calseard, Doxon, Yen and Breeze, who wished to discuss details of the rebellion.
13:48 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: After assessing the state of recent events, the group asks for a report on what says it has learned about the Lord ruler.
13:56 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And boy, he's learned a few interesting things, hasn't he, and deciphering this little
14:03 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_02]: He sure has Richard, you wanna talk about that?
14:06 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the book Chronicles, the Lord rulers journey to the legendary well of ascension.
14:12 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, you know, it's a journal of his, his travels, his trials, his tribulations.
14:20 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And some other interesting stuff, I feel like I probably should have taken down like an excerpt or two, but I don't know if Caesar gives us any yet.
14:33 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it might just be him talking about some of the contents of it.
14:37 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if you can.
14:38 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's right.
14:38 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's right.
14:40 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Really interesting, though, that, you know, we have this gateway of Lord Ruler's head.
14:48 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it is like his inner thoughts and we don't.
14:52 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, we haven't seen the Lord Ruler yet through the eyes of Vin or Calseera outside of the room in Creedick Shaw, but I feel like that was just a glimpse, like he hasn't done anything on the page yet, and so it's a really interesting way to get like a good first person perspective into his thoughts before he became the Lord Ruler.
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting when people are swearing by his name.
15:23 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be very curious about who was the person behind this now deified entity.
15:32 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
15:32 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:35 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed in this chapter as well been calling out how people have changed in the two weeks that she's been
15:44 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Bedridden.
15:45 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_01]: She talks a little bit about yet and being a lot more professional and clean looking a little bit more like the leader of a rebellion and just some guide living out in the middle of nowhere.
15:56 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And also she notices that Kelsey or seems a little bit more calculating and thoughtful ever since the whole incident at credit shot and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he has some guilt about what happened.
16:12 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You two watch it's always something in Philadelphia.
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen a bunch of it.
16:17 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen some clips on TikTok, you know, Gen Z. Yeah, yeah, that's how you all watch TV now.
16:23 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But all right, so for the people who know it, there's this episode where they just start shouting intervention at somebody just to
16:30 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_02]: just to like, like, they're just like intervention, they're banging pots, and I'm like, I feel like that was everybody to Kelsey or after the Vitt incident, right?
16:38 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_02]: The credit shot incident because he is a lot more measured, and he should be because they were all like, hey, you know, when it's just you, maybe you can be reckless, but now you're you're dealing with, first of all, he's dealing with Vitt in a personal way, but he's also in charge of a lot more people now, like if he's reckless, he risks way more than just his own safety.
16:57 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think
16:58 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_02]: He's starting to internalize that more and later when we see March talking about him I think that March is kind of seeing that change as well Yeah, I guess it's a lesson.
17:10 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We all have to learn that you can't just run headfirst into the fortress of the god king of all mankind Look, we've all played Elden Ring You got a grind a little bit before you get up to the bosses, right?
17:24 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
17:25 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Or do you?
17:26 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
17:29 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_02]: The speedrunners have entered the chat.
17:33 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Send us your Elden Ring speedrunners.
17:35 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Speed running, credit Shah.
17:38 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I saw somebody commented on, I think they commented on one of our Patreon posts that we should talk about the Cosmere RPG at some point and maybe we could do a bonus episode on that because I actually have all of the books because I paid for it, but it helped fund the Kickstarter yet there.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They're around here somewhere.
17:58 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get them out for another episode.
18:00 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I also, I put in one of the chats.
18:03 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a special signed edition of Hero of Ages now.
18:07 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, fucking beautiful, man.
18:09 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Good for you.
18:10 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's in children also that Richard.
18:12 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not a children's show.
18:16 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: The children should not be listening to this because we're talking about very dark topics sometimes.
18:20 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, no, I just, um, I do want to talk about the cosmic RPG at some point.
18:25 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I've not played it, but Richard, if you could give us a crash course, that would be a really fun episode.
18:30 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, for sure.
18:30 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
18:34 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've got more going on in this chapter.
18:37 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a heart to heart with Kelsey here.
18:38 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So after a grueling period of recovery, Vin decides to begin attending balls again.
18:45 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_02]: She reflects on how much she has changed, even coming to like things as controversial as dresses and smelling nice.
18:52 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_02]: She is iminowal, but she is Ms. Born.
18:55 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Then she decides to ask Kelsey her about mayor.
18:58 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, let's ruin a good night.
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about your ex.
19:05 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Kelsey here is a lot more open and understanding about things than I think a lot of people would be in that scenario.
19:14 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He is kind of just matter of fact about it and tell us her that
19:19 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that I love her less because there might have been a betrayal.
19:24 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that the betrayal hurts a lot more because I love this person so much.
19:31 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't take away the love that I have, but it just makes the negative times a thousand.
19:37 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's an interesting perspective to have.
19:44 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've been...
19:47 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've been around a little longer than you two.
19:49 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say, I've gone through phases of my life where I felt more like being in that situation and have gone through phases of my life where I feel more like hell's here in that situation, right?
20:02 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that like, I can look back on friends who ended up not being great people and still be like, yeah, but we had fun at the bar that night, right?
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_02]: That was a good memory.
20:11 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_02]: We did, we did that open mic or something.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Here I mean, like,
20:15 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to let the bad room in the good for a lot of things.
20:20 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is a pretty extreme example.
20:22 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wouldn't blame Kelsey here for just being like, nope, not gonna remember her.
20:26 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_02]: But also like, the reason that betrayal from somebody you love hurts so much is, because you did love them.
20:34 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You really did love them.
20:35 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you can't just erase that on your heart.
20:41 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, love her.
20:44 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Better or worse, you carry them with, you know, really no matter what in your heart or your head, you know, in some emotional quantity and vice versa, like it, they're always going to affect you in some way shape or form when it comes back to something like this.
21:03 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I can hear Phil Collins coming in right now with you'll be in my heart.
21:08 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have the rights to it, so don't expect to destroy life.
21:11 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I was hoping you were going to pull that one out on the soundboard for us.
21:16 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that would be nice, but we haven't the funding for it.
21:20 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
21:22 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_02]: What else we have in this section of the chapter?
21:24 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, okay, so we also learn about snapping, right?
21:27 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Snapping, which is when a traumatic event happens to someone with the Alomansy potential, either Ms. Border Missing, and that traumatic event triggers
21:43 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's very interesting because Kelsey is the only, the only misfortune we know of, other than Vin, and he is kind of a weird exception to how snap it works, because usually they snap once, and that's it, I believe he snapped as a missing, and then he snapped as a misfortune, or maybe I'm getting it confused with something else.
22:07 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't understand it to be that way, but maybe you're right.
22:12 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_02]: right in somebody.
22:13 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:14 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:14 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Right in.
22:15 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: How's me?
22:15 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_02]: The war rounds.com.
22:17 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's unusual that he snapped as an adult and I think we find out maybe later in this book, but maybe it's a different book in the series why that's so unusual and the answer is pretty terrible and nasty.
22:31 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we find out in this book.
22:36 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure, but yeah, I don't know.
22:38 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we move on to that.
22:38 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll speculate on it at this point.
22:40 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's keep going here.
22:43 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_02]: We also get this debate about, if the Ashley Sky and the Weather Plan's feel wrong.
22:50 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So Aaron, you highlighted this.
22:52 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about this?
22:55 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, yeah.
22:58 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: This whole section about the flower that Mayor had drawn or had a drawing of, and the fact that Celcier has this conversation with Vin about the world isn't right, and she just kind of is sitting there like, I don't know what you're talking about.
23:15 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The world has always been this way.
23:17 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You're just kind of yappin' and yappin'.
23:20 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_01]: you wouldn't have any frame of reference for the kind of world that we do if you live in their world.
23:26 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so for them to imagine a better life where the grass is green and the land is fertile, it's just not in an option in their head.
23:35 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the way the world works.
23:37 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's great world-building on Sanderson's part to put this idea in our heads of
23:45 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_01]: a world so broken and uninhabitable, but somehow it still works, and people are still thriving here, even though it's not the kind of lush green place that we know our world to be, life always finds a way.
24:00 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Jeff Gold-Lumillert.
24:04 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting how Sanderson designs a lot of his world.
24:08 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like
24:10 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of other fantasy series will just it'll it'll just be earth but there's magic and maybe it's not literally earth like geographically but you know what I mean like it's it's the same climate it's the same like they're the same biomes everywhere with just a little bit more magic where as he really does come up with some unique environments
24:32 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Without spoiling really anything major, there are no dogs on the Stormlight planet.
24:38 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And someone has to explain to people from there what a dog is.
24:42 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And then is one of those things that makes you think, like, oh my god, duh, this is a completely different ecosystem.
24:49 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no, like, you, I always struggle to think of it in that light at least.
24:54 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's the same for you guys, but,
24:57 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like the notion that this is a place kind of hostile to humans for one reason or another.
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:05 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, in Sanderson loves his weird plants.
25:07 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_02]: He, I don't know.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_02]: He just loves him.
25:09 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_02]: He loves having alien plants.
25:11 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:12 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if he studied botany in any form and that's kind of where he picked up on that.
25:17 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Extra terrestrial botany.
25:20 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:21 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Who knows?
25:24 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so let's go on after this break.
25:37 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're back, chapter 18, the red dress.
25:44 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Vin arrives at keep a larryl.
25:47 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_02]: The venue for the latest Luther Bell Shindig.
25:52 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Her confidence is stymied by the sea of gorgeous dresses and stuck up nobles.
25:56 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_02]: She needs to relax a little, so it's a good thing she wore her dancing shoes.
26:04 --> 26:07 [SPEAKER_01]: This whole ball sequence was pretty fun.
26:07 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It was nice to see Vin let loose a little bit.
26:10 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_01]: She's been pretty stressed out lately, so I think she could use a little bit of covert dancing.
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: She does a pretty good job apparently too.
26:22 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_01]: She's not as clumsy as you might think someone who's been sick for a few weeks would be.
26:29 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I really like the way that Ellen, first of all, he's very rude, right?
26:34 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just sitting down, not even talking.
26:37 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: But I like the way that she twists it, that she goes, oh, actually, my uncle asked him to look after me, and he's more like a brother to me, and that just opens up all the doors for her, right?
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Then she could talk to everybody, then she can get
26:52 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: all of the intel, or maybe not, we'll say, but yeah, I love that whole interaction because she's learning to use her words as weapons, right?
27:04 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_02]: She's learning to actually do some of this setterfuge without using her misborn powers, without doing it like a thieving crew.
27:13 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a nice character development.
27:18 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: it definitely is and I love that says it is still not trusting Ellen whatsoever.
27:24 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like this guy's bad news, you're being manipulated and you know what?
27:29 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she is.
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Who could say really?
27:32 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's to say?
27:34 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, the Vile Lady Shan is spreading rumors about Vin.
27:39 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We find out that that's maybe a little bit of jealousy on Shan's part.
27:43 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: She was engaged to Ellen at one point or another and doesn't like this random noble woman from the countryside has been making herself friendly with the Lord Ellen Venture.
27:57 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_02]: We do not stand Shan.
27:59 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_02]: We are an anti-sham podcast to be clear.
28:04 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, what do you think about this part of the chapter?
28:07 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I like then warming up to having to be more politically involved and she's starting to learn.
28:16 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of echo chamber thoughts.
28:19 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be real.
28:20 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a ton like much else to say other than that.
28:25 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then
28:27 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Ellen meeting with the heirs for Lee Kalen Hasting was a very interesting part for me.
28:32 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I so I guess I have a different bit that I was interested in and it's just to me I was really excited to see like oh maybe in the next books they'll have like a triumvirant of these three great houses and maybe they'll be taking down the Lord ruler or they'll be helping the sky rebellion or something along those lines.
28:56 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
28:56 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just kind of theory crafting with that for a while until I got further into the book.
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's interesting.
29:04 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_02]: To me, the things that most concerned me were the books, right?
29:08 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_02]: You have this this book that seems to suggest that our friend Ellen might be more sympathetic to
29:27 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, perhaps not ever what agrees with Bidden's reading of that situation.
29:33 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:34 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that Kelsey here kind of takes the position that Ellen is just being rebellious with all of this.
29:44 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's meeting up with young men from the rival lords or rival lordships, things like that,
29:57 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: going towards this rebellious streak to get back to his father and that he's known for being a little bit of a little bit of a bad boy.
30:06 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_01]: If you could say someone who's sitting down and reading a book at a ball.
30:12 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Kelsey here just goes like, who among us has it thwarted with treason, you know?
30:18 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_00]: As soon as it gets to the noble, like the nobility with him, it's just immediate, pessimistic, they couldn't possibly actually be doing this.
30:27 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all for appearances or whatever.
30:29 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's very, he just cannot give them the benefit of the doubt once.
30:36 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, what easy you have trouble trusting someone after the way that you've been treated by the I totally get is that I totally get Kelsey here.
30:45 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I totally understand why he feels the way he feels I think he's very justified and feeling that way I also think that like if you're going to win you're going to have to make tough allies.
30:56 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've seen that in our own, you know,
30:59 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_02]: revolutionary moments, right?
31:01 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the civil rights movement, the civil war rather, Lincoln was not, Lincoln was of the ruling class, right?
31:11 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_02]: He was a white attorney and he was actually not pro-al abolition at first.
31:17 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_02]: He was somebody who wanted to contain slavery, but not abolish it.
31:22 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_02]: and people like Frederick Douglass had to make allies with him and work with him and eventually he became a true ally and he fought for abolition and he did great things.
31:31 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But these are the kinds of compromises moral compromises you have to make to get
31:37 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_02]: the people in power to do the right thing.
31:39 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's something that I don't think Kelsey or has learned.
31:42 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like Vin is more inclined to trust Ellen, but we'll see what happens.
31:46 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see if he's actually trustworthy.
31:48 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see if Kelsey is able to dissuade her from ever even going near him.
31:53 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think a big part of Kelsey's mindset is that he doesn't think he'll ever have to change and adapt for that.
32:00 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that in his mind,
32:03 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_01]: he has the job of getting the Lord ruler stash and pulling off this big heist and then leave the rest of the rebellion to other people.
32:14 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I also think a big issue with Kelsey here is that he only wants to change the system from the outside and
32:20 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas there are people who are forced into the system just by random birth, like Alan, like, for example, and he wants to change the system from within and helps you just can't understand that he is not a willing participant of, at least the downsides of the system that the Lord ruler is set up.
32:44 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: most of the doubt it's mostly down so it's one of my saying like but there there are some positives at least there was like a world government and they were unified under one country but that's about all the good that came out of there.
32:58 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, to me, it's less that you want to preserve positives of the Lord rulers rain and it's more that if you overthrow the Lord ruler and then you just make it to the sky and charge in the nobles are now the slaves or treated almost slaves, you're not solving the problem, you're just turning it on its head.
33:19 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you're going to eventually maybe not in the short term.
33:23 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But once you win that revolution, there's no way you can avoid working with the nobles, otherwise you're just going to kick the can down the road a little bit.
33:32 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we love a good cycle of hatred in media.
33:36 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_02]: We should never turn that poorly.
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_02]: The turning of the wheel, game with Rome, right?
33:40 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to go for a attack on Titan, but yeah, that that works too.
33:44 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never really been in a game of Thrones.
33:47 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I get there today.
33:48 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You would want to break the wheel.
33:50 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I would.
33:52 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm moving on from that one.
33:54 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Declaring fan, bankruptcy, on give me thrones.
33:59 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, murder of a misfortune that's chapter 19, Aaron, tell me about it.
34:04 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelsier pushes the great houses towards chaos and instability by killing nobles and stoking the houses fears of one another.
34:11 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_01]: House Techil is short one missed born ally thanks to Kelsey and their short of blame house isn't ready for the whole affair.
34:19 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope I got either of those names even remotely correct.
34:25 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think maybe it's T.K.L.
34:28 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
34:29 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's awful.
34:30 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I got no clue about Eisenrie though.
34:33 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: They can just
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: We can just leave that one up to whoever.
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: This has some of the tougher names and standards and works.
34:40 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say that.
34:41 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I actually, I like the way the storm light names work.
34:45 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't love all the names in this form.
34:47 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of my, one of my only boutiques of this.
34:50 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like.
34:53 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Stormlight has more like high fantasy like very token ask.
34:56 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, put it in the jar.
34:58 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Token ask naming conventions and I just wish Ms. Bornhead more of that.
35:03 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Kelsey here's a good name.
35:05 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Vins a good name.
35:07 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't love all the nicknames of like the crew.
35:10 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Those sometimes feel a little cheesy to me.
35:12 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_02]: But I like the characters themselves somewhat into excuse it.
35:16 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's fair.
35:19 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So, we get a little bit of information about the nobility in this chapter in that a lot of them wear metal, which is seen as pretty foolish by people who aren't rich and powerful, because if you have metal on you, that can be used against you by allomancers.
35:36 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But for the nobles, they don't need to worry about that.
35:39 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They've got allomancers protecting them, or they are allomancers themselves.
35:43 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, it's just this,
35:46 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: statement of their power that, look, I can do this dangerous thing and nothing is going to happen to me.
35:53 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone be in awe of the fact that I have a wedding ring on.
35:59 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also really like all this, you know, this sneaking around and this Kelsey here pretending to be a spy and all that kind of stuff with Lord Venture, you know, he's really, so this is, it was Travis here as Ellen's dad.
36:17 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And Kelsey here is just from a stir crap, you know, he's just kind of trying to make all these nobles distrust each other.
36:25 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_02]: But Kelsey here gets
36:27 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_02]: information from a certain person in the chapter, doesn't he?
36:32 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, from a beggar at named Hoid, trigger Hoid Watch.
36:40 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Remember, we warned people in the in the preview that we were going to be on Hoid Watch, and you just seen the graphic go across your screen.
36:48 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_02]: This is our first site of Hoid in the Cosmere, as far as when we're reading.
36:53 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, exciting.
36:55 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_02]: He's here.
36:56 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And not very intimidating, right?
36:58 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_02]: This is we said we have to watch out for him, but I feel like this is such a quiet introduction to him.
37:04 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we even see him groveling before Kelsey and playing this role of the scared informant he is truly making himself out to be just completely helpless and just a regular old street scar.
37:23 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, certainly he will not be important in any way shape or form in any of the books.
37:29 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: don't expect to see him again.
37:33 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the one and only time that the void watch is going to be in the vote.
37:35 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:36 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:36 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
37:37 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
37:37 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody would be.
37:38 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody believes you.
37:39 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody believes you.
37:40 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I love void.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_02]: We showed a picture of him in the preview.
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll put it up again here.
37:46 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_02]: He is a very interesting character.
37:49 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know anything about him at this point.
37:52 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_02]: We're definitely going to talk about him in the spoiler section this month.
37:56 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Gonna be a lot of fun.
37:59 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_02]: and then Kelsey here, of course, turns it around.
38:01 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_02]: First, he's the noble talking to Hoide, and then he flips it around, and he's the scab talking to Strath Venture.
38:08 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So he's playing all the roles tonight.
38:11 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:11 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We get a lot of nuggets from a Strath as well.
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Richard, go ahead and... Oh, yeah.
38:16 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Just one last thing about the Hoide and Kelsey your thing.
38:19 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure that Hoide indirectly gives Kelsey like a better idea of how to blend in.
38:25 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what it was,
38:29 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He took something from the way Hoy'd disguises himself, but maybe I'm losing it, I don't know.
38:36 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you're right, it was Hoy'd was doing this act where he said that his eyesight was so bad that he couldn't even see his hands in front of him and Kelsey or takes that to his meeting with Strath Venture and sort of plays that up and is like, I'm so sorry, my Lord, I didn't see you.
38:54 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'm late.
38:55 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_01]: My eyes don't work the way that they should.
38:59 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just a cool little piece that I couldn't remember 100% but yeah, that's all I had to say.
39:06 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we get some good nuggets from Straff Venture.
39:10 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He speaks of a way that you could imitate a man using their bones.
39:17 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And he also asks about Kelsey, which is funny because the man is standing right in front of him.
39:23 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:25 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he asks about Kelsey here.
39:27 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_02]: These people are, you know, what's that a rest of development when he's like, I have the worst fucking attorneys?
39:32 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if this is, I have the worst spies.
39:35 --> 39:36 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
39:37 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Very true.
39:38 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:40 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Straff also is of the opinion that the 11th medal is just a fabrication of someone trying to manipulate the scar, which it's a little bit too close to home.
39:51 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: He's pretty close to the truth stick on that one.
39:56 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he is.
39:57 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He's almost hitting in the market there.
40:06 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard, do you have any thoughts about this section?
40:10 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, not too much, just I think it's interesting world building how they, even though the nobles are so
40:19 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_00]: derogatory towards the Scott, they still want to use them to get as much information out of them as they can.
40:27 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They just really do see these people as a means to completing a task and it is a really interesting mindset that they have, but it makes sense because they're the oppressors in this totalitarian system.
40:44 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
40:46 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's move on to the second part of the chapter, which is a debrief.
40:51 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_02]: The crew gatherers at the manner to discuss the events of the evening, where Vin is feeling peeved that the information she was already, that she learned was already discovered by, say, Zed, the, honestly hilarious.
41:06 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, this whole interaction of Vin being like, oh my god, I can't believe that I
41:15 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_01]: actually find anything out and the rest of the crew just doesn't have that perspective.
41:20 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, no, no, you got to practice a little bit.
41:24 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to get in there and be seen among the nobility and at this point, that's about as important as the information.
41:31 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's just not her perspective.
41:34 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: She feels like
41:35 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Damn, I really failed in my mission, if Seizad went into the back room and got everything plus some that I did.
41:42 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think part of it too is they're confirming there's there's confirming of multiple sources.
41:48 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And more importantly, he's like, she's just giving the trust of people.
41:55 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, people are going to start letting more things slip if she keeps secrets, you know, or they think that she's keeping secrets.
42:05 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got an interesting way of referring to Lord Renew in this.
42:14 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_01]: uh chapter where he is complimented on his acting abilities and he says it is who I am and Sanderson has that as the Kendra said it simply or the Kendra said simply.
42:29 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Kendra, I'm sorry.
42:32 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm addressing the Kendra too.
42:33 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Kendra.
42:34 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh shit.
42:35 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it's Kendra.
42:36 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh.
42:37 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so used to that.
42:38 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I didn't realize that wasn't common knowledge.
42:41 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess Sanderson is just pulling long A's out of everywhere.
42:45 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't have to look like that's what I'm saying.
42:47 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He's pulling long A's out of every day.
42:49 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
42:53 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
42:53 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting thing right there.
42:55 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:56 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Then we've got Kelsey here.
42:58 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He thinks that Vin is falling for Alan.
43:01 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And he tells her to stay away.
43:03 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, steer clear of the rich air boy.
43:07 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to mess with any of that.
43:10 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: What do we think Vince is going to do though?
43:11 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Is she going to mess with that?
43:14 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty determined to me.
43:16 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Generations of fathers have failed to do exactly what Kels here is doing right now, right?
43:21 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_02]: If you tell somebody like, oh, you have to stay away from that boy.
43:24 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's the thing she's most going to want to do?
43:28 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm right there.
43:30 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just, you can't stop it.
43:33 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:37 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
43:39 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so we've already talked about the book.
43:43 --> 43:44 [SPEAKER_02]: We've talked about the Conqueror.
43:44 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about falling for Ellen.
43:46 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And now we've got to talk about Marsh, we're on chapter 28 training with Marsh Aaron.
43:51 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Give me up.
43:52 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Vin is becoming a capable agent for the crew and a very convincing noble woman, so much that she's actually enjoying attending these balls.
44:01 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: While her noble training has gone far, Vin wishes she had more opportunities to train as a misfortune.
44:07 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Her wishes answered as Kelsey's brother, Marsh, trains her on the intricacies of bronze, which is actually a lot more complex than you would think, for such a simple metal.
44:20 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you guys think about this whole training montage with Marsh explaining how she can use bronze to be a little bit more effective as a misborn?
44:31 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I like this a lot.
44:32 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that, again, we've talked about this how Celceria's plan of sending her with the listings was a really good one, because now she's able to see
44:43 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, instead of a jack of all traded master of none, she's going to a master of one each time and learning the best tricks for me to them.
44:51 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Marsh is very thoughtful.
44:52 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that it's an interesting juxtaposition with Kelsey here because Kelsey here is so headstrong, run into everything, move quickly, break things, and get everything done.
45:03 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And Marsh has like, let's be measured, let's infiltrate.
45:07 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, he's brilliant, right?
45:09 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think he's brilliant.
45:11 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is showing that in action.
45:15 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
45:16 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I do think it's very interesting that I
45:19 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_00]: that Marsh is more focused on infiltrating and more just on having a full blown plan and what his power is best suited to it, whereas Kelsey here, the way that he acts is more suited to how in this form would work.
45:34 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_00]: would act just based off their powers alone like that's very much a man or woman person of action power versus like just being able to see it or hear elementic pulses like you're really not
45:50 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_00]: your whole thing has to be surveillance and having four knowledge and having a plan because you don't have, you can't use pewter to strengthen yourself or steal an iron pushes to launch projectiles every which way, you know, March has to be holding calculating.
46:05 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's just an interesting like how their powers shape their mindset type of thing.
46:14 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it could have been really easy for Sanders and to just go ahead and say, yeah, some listings have really great powers and some just kind of suck.
46:23 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But he went the extra mile and made it so that even if you have a power like being able to burn bronze and sense elementic pulses, there's a lot you can do with that.
46:35 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some creative applications and you're not inherently
46:45 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:45 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even copper is the one that makes the, like, clouds and stuff, right?
46:52 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Copper clouds.
46:53 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:54 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Copper.
46:54 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We did a whole interview with the signs.
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
46:57 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
46:58 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's leaking back into my brain slowly.
47:03 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the, the, I think that copper, even, like it seems useless, but you also can't be targeted by emotional ailments.
47:11 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So, like you have,
47:13 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_00]: other benefits to it other than just not be like not emitting elementic pulses in like the radius of your cloud whatever and i think that that's interesting because that it works for like you'd want your spy master maybe or your spies even to be copper uh... shoot i can't think of the word smokers i think right yeah the smokers are the ones who put on top of clouds and uh... it shouldn't be like
47:42 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_02]: water cyclers, you know what I mean?
47:44 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_02]: The clouds are on the water cycle.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
47:48 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I have five year old and I just explained the water cycle to her today.
47:52 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's on, now it's on my mind.
47:54 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
47:55 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's topical.
47:57 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It is topical.
47:59 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It's always topical.
48:01 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_02]: The water cycle is important, everyone.
48:04 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really is.
48:06 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_01]: tune in next week for a bonus episode on the water cycle.
48:09 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
48:10 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
48:10 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Alamansi interacts with the water cycle.
48:15 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We get some pretty interesting stuff in this chapter about some of the logistics of the Skah army and that all of the leaders of this rebellion are kind of taking turns watching over the army.
48:30 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that they do explain it in this chapter that the main reason for that is to just kind of get everyone in the army used to the idea that
48:40 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_01]: These are all their different leaders.
48:41 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They can take orders from any one of them.
48:44 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just going to be calcier or ham or any one person who's a leading them.
48:51 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to, this is a true military.
48:54 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to be different people.
48:56 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And just a whole chain of command, right?
48:58 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You got to get that established for nobody's going to listen.
49:04 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_01]: also interesting that Vin sort of voices that she believes a lot of the nobles would take the scost side if they only knew what was really going on and I think that that's where she lost me a little bit with her argument was this idea that some of the nobles don't know what's going on which I think is just complete BS.
49:27 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm I'm going to just
49:30 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_02]: push back a little bit on your doubts.
49:32 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's in general, in general, especially when we see what's going on today, it's often not true.
49:40 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_02]: But there was a time where like, hey, the civil rights movement happened alongside the rise of television.
49:49 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a big part of it.
49:50 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like people saw people peacefully protesting and then being attacked by the police.
49:56 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_02]: That was a big part of why public opinions started changing.
49:59 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I do think that they know in general what's going on and that's morally indefensible, but people who would otherwise turn a blind eye when they're confronted with the actual violence of the system come and see the violence inherent in the system.
50:13 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's Maddie Python.
50:16 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that too deep of a reference?
50:18 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.
50:18 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's red string.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, all right, okay.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
50:23 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_02]: it's once they see the violence inherent in the system, honestly, they start to go like, oh, maybe we shouldn't do this.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It is a real thing.
50:35 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
50:35 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, because like the suffering of Viska to a lot of the nobles is just this abstract.
50:42 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: thing that may be someone that they know talks about once or twice, but it's not even like a point of conversation for a lot of them, because they're nobles, they don't care.
50:54 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Or they're not even don't care, but they just, they don't know.
50:58 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's abstracting philosophical, you can ignore it much more easily.
51:00 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's tangible, if it's the swirl, if it's visual, it's extremely hard to ignore.
51:06 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_02]: People do it, we see it today, but it's a lot harder than when it's removed.
51:11 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And like fair example, I could open TikTok or Instagram right now.
51:15 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And I probably in 10 minutes, I could find some proof of something horrible going around the world.
51:21 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to say, oh my god, that's horrible.
51:23 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That shouldn't be happening.
51:24 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
51:26 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And they can't do that.
51:27 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have TikTok.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_02]: That night sucked.
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll go on TikTok.
51:32 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead I'll watch Tinned Fish Reviews.
51:34 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Until I fall asleep.
51:35 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that I'm not the only one who gets that guy on my first date.
51:38 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_01]: You get the British guy?
51:39 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The British guy with the 10 fish, yes.
51:41 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_01]: His name is 10 fish reviews.
51:43 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We're mentioning him.
51:44 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
51:44 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my favorite talker right now.
51:46 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_02]: He wears a fuzzy as a dog named King Arthur, any reviews 10 fish.
51:50 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I got this guy's awesome.
51:52 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And he is probably not seeing this.
51:54 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He's great.
51:55 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
51:56 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I only enjoy when he doesn't like the fish, which is not very often.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, all right.
52:01 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
52:02 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone go watch Tint Fish Reviews.
52:04 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my endorsement for today.
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not a payback.
52:09 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I just like it.
52:10 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
52:13 --> 52:14 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, that's the chapter.
52:14 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the set of chapters.
52:16 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_02]: We did it.
52:16 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_02]: We got through another five chapters.
52:18 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we only have a few episodes left of the book.
52:21 --> 52:28 [SPEAKER_02]: We have one, two, three episodes left of this book, which is, or no, four episodes left of this book, which is very exciting.
52:28 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We're really, really getting through this quickly.
52:32 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So follow along with us.
52:34 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Join us on the rest of this journey.
52:36 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Or you could just listen to us and we'll recap before you and you never have to pick up the book.
52:40 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
52:43 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_02]: weekly coverage is happening.
52:45 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's 50 to 70 pages a week.
52:46 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_02]: So about four to six chapters, depending on the length.
52:50 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, next week, we are going to be doing chapters 21 through 25 of missports on the final empire.
52:56 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So that is a five chapter week.
52:58 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_02]: make sure to hit the subscribe button so that you can follow along with all of us.
53:02 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can always send an email to us at Cosmere at thelorhounds.com.
53:06 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Head to our Discord server in the link tree in the show notes or, you know, I don't know, figure out another way to get in contact with us.
53:13 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Pigeon, missing, I don't know.
53:19 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_02]: we did it everybody we did the episode join the fable book club it's linked in the show notes it's free and we will see you next week chapters 21-25