Here in season 3, we’re starting a new feature! Once per month, we’ll be turning back the clock and showcasing an episode from our back catalog! This month, we callback to one of our favorites from Season 1!
Wait, was “Undone” really the most popular early Weezer song? In this epic episode we unravel Weezer’s 1994 hit (in some universes, at least), “Undone - The Sweater Song.” After discussing the hosts’ history with the band, Mark follows a thread of connection between some of the iconic elements of the song and older - much older - kinds of music. And Nichole finally gets Mark to understand what this song seems to really be about: depression.
To hear more of Nichole’s story, check out the episode “Burnt Toast” from the Scissors N Scrubs podcast from March 2023.
Other music heard in this episode: Weezer - “Say it Ain’t So”, The Rentals - “Friends of P”, Wheesor - “Undone - The Sweater Song”, Weezer - “Africa”, Weezer - “Perfect Situation” - Richard Berry and the Pharaohs - “Louie Louie”, René Touzet - “El Loco Cha Cha Cha”, Metallica - “Welcome Home (Sanitarium)”, Robert Johnson - “I Believe I’ll Dust By Broom”, Mead ‘Lux’ Lewis - “Honky Tonk Train Blues”, The Jimi Hendrix Experience - “Purple Haze”, The Beatles - “Taxman”, Garbage - “Supervixen”, Jet - “Are You Gonna Be My Girl”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
Nevermind the Music is part of The Lorehounds Network. Join the Nevermind the Music Discord channel by visiting https://discord.gg/xdN4XCdtxU or thelorehounds.com
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00:00 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about copyright and stuff another time because plagiarism is fascinating to me because the courts get it wrong all the time you heard it here first plagiarism is fascinating and so that's right Yes, students.
00:12 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to fascinate me plagiarize in your paper.
00:16 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So catch us.
00:17 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So
00:31 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You go.
00:32 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is never mind the music.
00:35 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_04]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about Weezer.
00:39 --> 00:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, it feels like Weezer is a band we would have talked about really early in this podcast.
00:45 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think both of us are, I am a weasor fan and it's really on brand for me to like weasor and you as well.
00:51 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know they're touring and they're doing the whole blue album on tour?
00:54 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
00:55 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I am planning on.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I am actually planning on it.
00:57 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen weasers since probably two thousand.
01:01 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's, I want to talk about that, actually.
01:04 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about a weasor, our weasor levels of weasor fandom.
01:06 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But first, folks, we are talking about undone
01:12 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to destroy my sweater For the steady as I walk away Okay, so we both like, we both are fans.
01:28 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:29 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like nobody would is surprised by that.
01:34 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Being our generation and our level of nerdyness or at least mine.
01:37 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how they were kind of felt to me at first.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the cool nerds.
01:41 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, definitely, it's like a cool, lish nerd.
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So when were you, what's the height of your Weezer fandom?
01:46 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your field?
01:47 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I'd say I'm like one to ten and probably like a six, but I want to be a ten, like I want to be someone that really likes, like knows everything about Weezer because I respect them a lot.
01:56 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_04]: But I just don't really like, like when were you listening to Weezer?
02:01 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I think like the blue album was the one that like really kind of got me.
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I think you in a lot of other people.
02:06 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yes, so I feel very basic in my wiser, like fandom, but I just like them a lot.
02:12 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And their lyrics are great, their sound is great.
02:14 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It is like, they're iconically wiser.
02:16 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, no one else really sounds like them.
02:18 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Blue album era, right?
02:21 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I think I discovered them a little late.
02:23 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It was more like high school for me, which, because I was a little younger when this album came out.
02:28 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But by the time I was in high school, I was certainly a fan of this.
02:32 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And Pinkerton had already come in.
02:34 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So, when Pinkerton came out, I didn't really, that's when I started noticing weasers.
02:40 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I went back and listened to the blue album.
02:42 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's possible, that's kind of the timeline for me too.
02:45 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Because in middle school, I wasn't like into music.
02:48 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask you about Pinkerton too, but this song was a big hit.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: They're first single.
02:53 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
02:54 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It was there, and maybe we're jumping too far forward.
02:56 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But, but this song hit number 57.
03:00 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_00]: on the billboard hot 100.
03:01 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It was much higher on the rock charts, but.
03:03 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I was like, that seems low.
03:04 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems low, but buddy Holly and say it ain't so.
03:08 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
03:09 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't even chart.
03:10 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
03:10 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So this song, like, okay, by the way, say it.
03:12 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say, I'm fine with undone, but say it ain't so was the song that when I heard it.
03:17 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, my God, this band is amazing.
03:19 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
03:24 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you make so far, you're drunk, you're so hot, breakin'
03:35 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's such a good song.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But am I crazy?
03:38 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't it feel like Buddy Holly, especially with the Buddy Holly video and this song were way bigger than undone, not true at all?
03:45 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_04]: That doesn't even make sense to me.
03:47 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that this is like a glitch in the main in the simulation.
03:50 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the Bernstein Bears versus Bernstein Bears.
03:52 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe because Buddy Holly was a popular song like with the video and it was like a happy days video and it was like the whole thing.
04:00 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, how would we just discover a new Mandela effect?
04:02 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_04]: What's we, sir?
04:03 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Parkwheeler?
04:04 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
04:28 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Mandela, it's Nelson Mandela.
04:29 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of Nelson Mandela.
04:30 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_00]: People thought the politician slash political activist from South Africa had died in prison.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: When in reality, he did not.
04:37 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He became the president of the post-apartheid South African state for a while.
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's this idea that
04:46 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Really what it is.
04:46 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about weird collective mismatch memory, but the theory don't I don't you can explain is better than me, but the theory is like is the Mandela effect a proof of the existence of split timelines.
04:58 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I parallel universes and my nerd for string theory and I think that parallel universes for sure do exist.
05:05 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And I love the idea that one small change can ripple you down like this hole.
05:12 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_04]: It can open up this whole other timeline and I you are a Zelda fan.
05:15 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_04]: We've talked about that right and I think we've talked about it on the podcast.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently I just outed big surprise.
05:23 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We like Zelda that Zelda very famously has a game 1990s some things Ocarina of time yeah that because there's time travel it creates multiple trees of plot and so it gives Zelda game like one that comes out in 2020 or whatever versus 2015 one of them may exist in a different timeline than the others it's set or and it's confusing and it doesn't matter because it's just a game
05:45 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_00]: it does matter, but how we stumble the pond also didn't expect to be talking about this.
05:52 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
05:53 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Have we stumbled upon something like the Mandela effect because in this case, provably so undone, hyphen the sweater song, not parentheses, hyphen was a bigger hit than these songs, but have you seen the music video to the song?
06:08 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_04]: The sweater song?
06:09 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:09 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_04]: If I saw it, I would probably remember it, but I can't remember it off hand.
06:13 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's them playing the song and some cookie things happen and there's a blue background so it feels very wiser.
06:19 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But I literally had never seen that video until I was prepping this episode like A-A two days ago.
06:25 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And...
06:26 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: this video by all accounts was a huge hit on MTV, whereas I feel like I saw the buddy holly video all the time.
06:32 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw Satan so quite a bit.
06:34 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Now granted, we already said I kind of missed the first run of this band.
06:39 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I it was more like when I was in high school when I was seeing all that stuff.
06:42 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was still a fan of music in middle school.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So like this is wild to me.
06:46 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And also why this song, this is a weird, weird, I get it, it's goofy.
06:52 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder why this song was
06:55 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_04]: because it's not like a single, like Buddy Holly's a single.
06:59 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_04]: When set in the sense of like, like, it's a people who show like, yeah, like a pop audience.
07:03 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And then you think of adding in the video and that had a lot of pop references and was really like accessible to a broad audience.
07:10 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Like this song is weird to be first out of the gate for a band.
07:14 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you mentioned like this sort of singleness of Buddy Holly, my parents.
07:18 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think my mom, I don't remember, but I think it was my mom, literally thought that it was a cover.
07:22 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: This sounds like a song from the 50s or the 60s or whatever.
07:25 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, that's a new song that's weasor like, and it had that sound and it has that you've heard this your whole life kind of sound that makes it a great single and I could have sworn that was this song was a minor one like undone is that bet I can remember kids singing it in like middle school classes and maybe like was that a real song there's no way that's a real song and no it was their biggest hit all the way until
07:49 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Island in the sun probably.
07:51 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Way past that.
07:51 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
07:52 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: All the way until Beverly Hills.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's in my.
07:55 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
07:56 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: 2003 or something like that?
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not my favorite one.
08:00 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:01 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's circle around Weezer fandom for a show.
08:03 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
08:03 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So I certainly super into Blue Album, Pinkerton.
08:08 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Pinkerton is the album that the music nerd friends of mine were like oh you like the blue album will Pinkerton is just so much smarter so much.
08:16 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to think of what a better another example of that was but I like Taylor I'm going to talk about Taylor Swift.
08:21 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like when you say like oh 1989's my favorite album it's like oh you need to listen to folklore.
08:26 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't you like reverbed out piano?
08:29 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to listen to folklore.
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_04]: a master class, but we don't have to.
08:33 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Folklore versus evermore, you're a folklore.
08:35 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I like folklore, better.
08:37 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Folklore is pretty also just the first one of those I heard.
08:41 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it felt so surprising.
08:43 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Folklore for me is the first Taylor Swift album that didn't feel poppy to me.
08:47 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I was always going to put off for her being too poppy.
08:50 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Like it's just not my style of music.
08:52 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So when I heard folklore and then later learned about her writing process for it,
08:57 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I realized like oh she's actually a songwriter like that's what she is and that kind of reframed Taylor Swift for me.
09:03 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_04]: But so when people say like oh, reds my favorite album or like Taylor Swift debut my favorite album it's like all right, like when she listened to folklore.
09:10 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm totally music snob.
09:13 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I like 1989.
09:14 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
09:16 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, like, the crazy thing music nerd I am, of course, years later becoming ever more so.
09:22 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I have revisited Pinkerton so many times going, this is the time I'm going to hear Pinkerton, and I'm going to realize that it's the best thing ever.
09:29 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Has it ever happened?
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It never happened.
09:31 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't think it is.
09:32 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I like some of the songs on Pinkerton a lot.
09:34 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_04]: What's like the top single?
09:35 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if you know one song on Pinkerton, what's it going to be?
09:38 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: El Scorcho, which is weird, but like it has like the good life is an excellent song and has some really like weird, you know, tired of sex is just like a weird opener, but like it has some really great stuff it's just a weird listen now folks right in tell me why I'm I actually want to know why I'm wrong because I still think blue is better what we're going to long about this so I was I like blue so much it's such a great it's a perfect album when I was
10:07 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_00]: When I was like, it's formation foundational to certain aspects of me, not just as a songwriter, but me as a performer to the point that later in high school, my rage against the machine, tribute band.
10:22 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.
10:23 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That happened to serve just to serve the purpose of a talent show basically when we played the last day of high school we transitioned into a weezer.
10:31 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god blue album cover band and so, but the reason I say let's pause.
10:38 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, just a weezer.
10:40 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Blue album cover band all you played was the blue album.
10:43 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we only played for that summer before everybody left for college That's all you kids kept and that's the songs everybody liked even though we had some of those music nerds that were like Would have advocated for Peter 10 cover album, but
10:57 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
10:57 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But like it was foundational like there's something about the vocal, the backing, but I wasn't the lead vocalist of that.
11:03 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We had a woman, well, a teenage girl, lead vocalist.
11:07 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_00]: She was probably a woman by then.
11:09 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.
11:09 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd have to check her birthday.
11:10 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We had, but yeah.
11:11 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: We can ask her.
11:12 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Right in.
11:13 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Moriene.
11:14 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Moriene.
11:14 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Moriene.
11:15 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so.
11:16 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like the high backup vocalist and it was the first time in my life I'd ever used falsetto.
11:22 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know the term falsetto?
11:24 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
11:24 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so think the high sort of boy voice that a man or in that case a teenage boy can use.
11:32 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I was super inspired by Matt Sharp, you know Matt Sharp by name.
11:37 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like Matt Sharp in the.
11:40 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, something right, isn't he in a band that's like match up?
11:42 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: He might now, and he was solo for a while.
11:45 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So he split off and made, he was the basis, the original basis of Wieser for their first two albums.
11:51 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And he split off into a band called The Rentals.
11:54 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah.
11:55 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you, do you remember them?
11:56 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
11:56 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They have the song Friends of P from 1995.
12:08 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_04]: What is P. A reference to?
12:10 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
12:12 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a great song.
12:15 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It fits that nerd rock.
12:17 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like a weasel cover band.
12:20 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds kind of like similar to that.
12:22 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:22 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And though that are vocalists in the band, like would guests on Weasel songs and stuff like that.
12:27 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
12:28 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So they had like a tradition.
12:29 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: They were cool.
12:29 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But he was the bassist.
12:30 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And what his deal was was he would sing high falsetto really goofy sounding harmonies in this moment here.
12:43 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so goofy, it's part of the song.
12:46 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the best part of the song, and here I am in my high school You're like, I can do it in trying it
13:10 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_04]: How do you even have that?
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have that.
13:13 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_04]: That's like recorded on a cassette tape.
13:15 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Our, our basis, I think Ted recorded it on some, like he might even had like a member of those mini disc players or whatever.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He had something like that.
13:25 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: This is late 90s or maybe two, no, 2000 or whatever.
13:28 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We rehearse and he just, it's wild.
13:31 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I have a few recordings and we sound like you would expect us to sound.
13:34 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's dragging a little bit, but you guys have it.
13:38 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_00]: we have it and and that's me my first ever falsetto experience on on the high notes.
13:44 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but anyways, the weird thing about weasor is this is what you said what you're a six out of ten, but you wish you were a ten.
13:51 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like why want to be someone that's like
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_04]: knows a lot of what we serve.
13:55 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of new wezer by new?
13:57 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in and after like 2.
14:00 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
14:01 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I mean, I'm rushed reference island in the sun.
14:04 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I really think that that's a great song from the green album.
14:07 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Like the red album, the lime green album.
14:09 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, called Wezer, of course.
14:11 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Smart.
14:12 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and that's all I got.
14:13 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that this is about the like least original thing anybody like a musician or whatever can say, but I have not I can't keep up with wiser like I'm similar now I happened to the reason I fell off like I wasn't not a wiser fan with Pinkerton I just couldn't see the genius that other people saw I was really like I like some of the songs I like the vibe
14:35 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not, I didn't know it was not into the green album.
14:38 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the song Island and the song, I think it's great.
14:40 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The production style of that album, it's so cheesy.
14:44 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's why I like it.
14:45 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You like, I think there's some cool stuff on it.
14:48 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Haspipe does not fit that.
14:49 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not cheesy, it's like a satire of weasers.
14:52 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Like they're in on the jokes.
14:53 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of it, felt like I couldn't tell if they were just trying to recreate blue album and failing, or if they were making fun of themselves.
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I think they were making them themselves.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You think because they just stayed that way.
15:02 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Do I still have new albums?
15:04 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Like when was the last newest album?
15:06 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like recent, like last couple years.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So, do you know about the colors too?
15:11 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: They have a blue album, a green album, a red album, a white album, a teal album, and a black album.
15:15 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
15:15 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't remember the teal album the teal album came out was when they had the total cover, the Africa cover that got totally blue up.
15:39 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's an all-cover album.
15:40 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: They still totally do music.
15:41 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is not, I'm not saying, wezer sucks.
15:45 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying, I'm just saying, I've tried even recently.
15:49 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I made a playlist of all their like, not just singles, but like I looked up what are the people's favorites?
15:56 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So because I'm not gonna listen to every album.
15:58 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: until they sell me like I need to be sold because starting on the 2000s I started just not liking their music although there's that one song perfect situation from their album make believe 2005 I did like that when it came out.
16:22 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_00]: really great lyrics in the chorus, right?
16:24 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_04]: But they also have the same, like I do, right?
16:27 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And when Beverly Hills blew up so big, that's probably their biggest overall hit ever.
16:33 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I, it's sort of like now you have to prove to me that I want to listen to weasers.
16:37 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've listened, I got like a playlist together of like singles and their notable songs and some of it I liked, but I struggled to like, you know, that kind of thing where like an artist you kind of discounted and then you realize, oh my God, they have so many hits, so many good songs I forgot about.
16:53 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:53 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of like, oh my God, they're sort of just whatever.
16:56 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And that bumps me out a lot.
16:57 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel so
16:59 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that like a common wiser, I feel like it's common to say, well, I like their, it's like, if you talk to someone or age about the Simpsons, they're like, well, the 90s Simpsons amazing.
17:08 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not good now, right?
17:09 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though it's been 25 years of it, I haven't more than 25.
17:11 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_04]: But no, no, since since the 90s, the 90s, the 90s, the 90s, the 90s, the 90s, the 90s, I haven't.
17:14 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't.
17:15 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't be right.
17:15 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Watched much of that.
17:16 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's hard to have a, have a vote there.
17:18 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, I feel very like old man yelling at cloud or whatever to say, to say,
17:29 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi everybody, Mark here, during the editing process later on.
17:33 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I realize now, I said like so many times, while recording that passage.
17:40 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I guess I'm not at my A game in terms of code switching when we're recording this episode.
17:46 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: In any case, we're going to have to try to move on.
17:48 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just going to have to live with it.
17:50 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You can build me if you want.
17:51 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Zoom me.
17:52 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
17:53 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have to live with myself.
17:55 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to live with it, too.
17:57 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get back on track.
17:59 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
18:00 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are here to talk about undone, hyphen this sweater song, not to get too off track again, but would you like a good parenthesis or do you like that they used a hyphen instead?
18:09 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I, I don't have an opinion.
18:12 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's highly appropriate.
18:14 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have an opinion about that.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I have to have an opinion about that.
18:16 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to have an opinion about that.
18:18 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also have, I am also a no hit wonder.
18:21 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So here we are.
18:23 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to destroy my sweater For this steady as I want to be
18:35 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly enough, that section of the song does not have really any of the elements that I really want to talk about.
18:42 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Except for one aspect of the chord progression, the seed of what I wanna talk about is in the intro to this song.
18:49 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, there's a note, or maybe a pair of notes, or a kind of dissonance between the notes, which means a clashing between the notes, that is what I wanna talk about.
18:59 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the beginning of the tune.
19:15 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: any notes on it.
19:16 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I like it.
19:18 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's cool, right?
19:19 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I like it.
19:20 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a simple, relatively clean electric guitar riff that mostly doesn't change except the base note changes both on the base guitar and on the electric guitar.
19:31 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_04]: In like a very, it's very monotone in a way that's reflective of what this song is about.
19:38 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
19:39 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_04]: That's how I, it like leads you into, it settles you into like what the song is about.
19:45 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get there.
19:45 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
19:46 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into that though, there's like a lot of juice behind the song in terms of influences from previous songs, but also just previous styles of music.
19:56 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That I think is worth pointing out even though it's not really the main thrust of what I want to talk about.
20:01 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Always a sidetrack.
20:02 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So,
20:03 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: this won't be a real sidetrack though.
20:04 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So the chord progression and I mentioned the hook doesn't have a lot that I'm planning on talking about in this episode, but it does have the same chords as that opening and it's a classic rock and roll progression.
20:16 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'll play it in the hook, but it's the same in the verse in the intro.
20:27 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And then in the intro,
20:34 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that sound familiar at all?
20:36 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they sound the same.
20:37 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Does it sound like any songs you've heard before?
20:40 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like a lot of songs I've heard before, but I can't pinpoint what they are.
20:44 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so this progression is, it goes the one, which is the main, the songs in the key of G-flat.
20:49 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure, sure.
20:50 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, you got me to it.
20:52 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_00]: No, so interestingly enough, you play the song in G, play it like weezer, but you tune your guitar down one.
20:59 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: they do that for the entirety of the album actually so it's pretty common in 90s like hard rocks used to give you guitar some of those extra low beefy notes usually use thicker strings also so it's played in G but sounds in G flat or F sharp and it goes one four five four okay and so we have this sort of loop
21:23 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: of these chords.
21:25 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And this progression is super common, though, admittedly, not as common lately.
21:30 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more like kind of classic rock and roll, old 50s, 60s songs that you'll hear it.
21:36 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where it was, I would say, most popularized.
21:56 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Very familiar with Louis Louis.
21:57 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Louis Louis, that's the 1956 original by Richard Barry.
22:01 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Marching men classic.
22:03 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
22:03 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
22:04 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good that sounds but see you're you're playing the tune on flute or a piccolo actually And you're with a piccolo so you were playing who knows what do you see the melody?
22:13 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you were playing the bass line.
22:16 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
22:17 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the core progression one four five four of course the Kingsman version Maybe at bigger single but that's a way way way way
22:26 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's all rock and roll.
22:27 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is sort of the R&B version, the original.
22:30 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And even this song, though, is based on an earlier song, Cuban band leader, René Touzette's 1956, though, just before.
22:39 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And local Chacha Chacha.
22:57 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_04]: how they get away with that.
22:58 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That was before litigation and music.
23:00 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not before litigation and music, but I should say this is probably got to have to be a sidetrack for a nay that another time because I would want to prepare some examples, but I have a lot of thoughts copyright law.
23:12 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
23:13 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It does not include chord progressions.
23:16 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
23:17 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Copyright includes lyrics and melody.
23:19 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So that is not a melody that is you can say it's a riff, but it's a chord progression and chord progressions cannot be copyrighted.
23:27 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that's stupid.
23:28 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: There are I would say as a songwriter that that's not stupid because there's only so many chord progressions that are work.
23:38 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we want Richard Barry to have a songwriting credit on undone the sweater song by Weezer?
23:44 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't do.
23:45 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of do because he's a black R&B artist from the 50s.
23:48 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of forgotten.
23:49 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he could probably benefit from that, but do we want the first, like put it this way?
23:55 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of jazz and pop songs go to five one.
23:58 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's their core progression.
23:59 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're basically two.
24:00 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: 5-1 forever.
24:01 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: The copyright act was passed in 1923.
24:04 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: People had been doing 2-5-1 since the beginning of jazz and since classical music.
24:08 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we want the first song published after the passing of the copyright act to then be able to claim copyright on that idea that had existed for 600 years, but because they were the first after the law was passed, now anybody doing 2-5-1 for the next 100 years, owes that melodies are like this two rhythms are like this
24:28 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: core progressions are like the building like we talked about the back beat in an episode that maybe is airing before this the back beat is that booch booch booch beat that's core to like rock music do we want whoever was the first probably jazz or R&B artist in the 30s to get copyright money for every single song ever i don't know it's just sort of
24:50 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: a foundational layer.
24:52 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_00]: The person who invented the major scale back in, you know, 600 AD should get or 600 BC probably should get copyright, right?
25:01 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a foundational element.
25:02 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think just to keep us on track, I'm just going to agree with you.
25:06 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Talk about it later.
25:07 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll talk about it later.
25:09 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know I'm also like, I should all just say this like I don't feel a hundred percent that in no cases.
25:15 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
25:15 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Should it be copyrightable?
25:17 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But chord progressions just as it is, it's sketchy, it's problematic if we say.
25:22 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_04]: This is where it is at end, because none of them are original.
25:27 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them.
25:27 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_04]: That's fair.
25:28 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about copyright and stuff another time because plagiarism is fascinating to me because the courts get it wrong all the time.
25:34 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You heard it here first.
25:36 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_04]: plagiarism is fascinating.
25:38 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's right.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, students.
25:41 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to fascinate me, plagiarize in your patience.
25:45 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So in any case, whether it's legally copied or not, it's
25:50 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: obviously the same, but this progression kind of has fallen out of fashion in the last like 30, 40 years.
25:56 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_04]: But this what our son was inspired by Louis Louis and all these other kind of precursors.
26:01 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels that way because this progression was not all over the place in the 90s really.
26:05 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
26:05 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't have thought.
26:06 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why the songs stood out, probably.
26:08 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It might have helped with a buddy Holly had this kind of review that felt kind of 50s also, right?
26:14 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They were going for this weird blend of hard rock and retro like old school rock and roll, etc.
26:39 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's not even really one of what I wanted to talk about.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_00]: What this conversation centers around is this.
26:49 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That first chord, which is if we want to get accurate and F sharp 6 ad sharp 9.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
26:56 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
26:57 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in four notes.
26:59 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:00 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a root.
27:02 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a note a six above it.
27:04 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's got a third, which is a note three notes above the root.
27:09 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's got this note that is a sharp two, a sharp nine, whatever.
27:15 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to know.
27:16 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a sharp ninth, which is a clashing note.
27:19 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically what we get is
27:28 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_00]: you hear how those those notes are super close.
27:32 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
27:33 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And they buzz.
27:34 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
27:34 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a dissonant buzz to it's a dissonant buzz.
27:37 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's great.
27:38 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So it has both the major third, the regular sort of duh and the minor one right below it.
27:45 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Or in this case, we call the minor one a sharp nine for reasons nobody cares about.
27:50 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of yuck, but it also sounds good.
27:53 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_00]: What if we got rid of the clashing notes, and we just played it with just the lower of the two?
28:03 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So that, what I did there was a play the chord as it is, and then resolved it with one note difference to just be a minor triad.
28:09 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
28:14 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And now we can do the same except get rid of the lower one and only play the high one.
28:18 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the major version.
28:23 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_04]: sounds so different.
28:24 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I like the minor one a lot better.
28:26 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's beautiful chord.
28:27 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:27 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But then this is what happens when we get them both at the same time.
28:35 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And let me just play just the two higher notes.
28:42 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a mistake.
28:43 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that sounds like when you play them alone, but together,
28:48 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We get this really compelling, but technically really crunchy note because we have an F-sharp cord with both in A-sharp and the A-natural or G-double-sharp.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Double-sharp.
29:05 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Sharp 9, it would have to be a G-double-sharp, but you could think of it as an A.
29:10 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if it's a G-flat chord, it would be a B-flat and a B-double-flat.
29:14 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, I am, I mean, and you might see it over here.
29:17 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Or an A-throw.
29:17 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:18 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So, that's right.
29:21 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason I talked about Louis Louis, and I talked about the core progression being retro, is this clash also has a really long history in pop music, especially styles related to rock music and sort of American pop.
29:33 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_04]: These specific notes, chords, not just the dissonant,
29:37 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: the distance of this type on a major part, so like I'm not going to say necessarily A and A sharp, but it could be A and A sharp, it could be B and C, it could be F and F sharp, at any time you have two notes next to each other, played on top of a chord like this, a major three and a minor three at the same time, it is actually following in this rich tradition.
29:58 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't even know the funny thing is, I don't even know that wezer is thinking of it.
30:02 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They're thinking of it like being baked into rock and roll.
30:05 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: What they were thinking of, I think Rivers later admitted it, realizing after the fact, this is what he was trying to write, like a pop rock version of this.
30:28 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_04]: So, super good.
30:29 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_04]: It's much calica.
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:30 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it Orion?
30:32 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_04]: That's welcome home sanitary.
30:34 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: From Master of Puppets 1986, River started out on a metal band.
30:37 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So this song is not metal, but there's influence there.
30:40 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that has that same sound.
30:42 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It does not have the same note.
30:44 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It does not have this major three minor three.
30:47 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This has a two and a minor three together.
30:49 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's technically a different harmonic world.
30:51 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But what River is doing when you write this song,
30:55 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Is he takes the sound of the of the metallic attune and puts it with this what I'm going to call a blue note.
31:02 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
31:02 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So having the two versions of the three at the same time, which gives us this.
31:07 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's the blue album.
31:09 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: that's actually fascinating.
31:10 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I literally never thought of that, even though I prepped a whole episode about how this is about blue notes.
31:15 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That is hilarious.
31:16 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the blue album.
31:17 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that's why they did it.
31:18 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
31:19 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't know where the color is.
31:20 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there also a teal note and a white note and did they attract to the other album?
31:25 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_00]: No, there's white keys in black keys.
31:27 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, okay.
31:28 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_04]: They have a lot of stretching.
31:29 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But see, their album is just called Reaser.
31:31 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
31:32 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We all started calling in the blue album because it was blue because of you know, or maybe subconsciously we knew about blue notes and like that we Right, we can actually remember the blue note man comes from this
31:46 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: clash.
31:47 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
31:48 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I got really excited about that.
31:49 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_04]: No.
31:50 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for catching for for catching that.
31:53 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_00]: This has a different dissonance to the Metallica song that comes from this idea of a blue note.
32:00 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me play you.
32:01 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me kind of explain where I'm coming from with this.
32:04 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: This is I believe I'll dust my broom by the delta blues man Robert Johnson.
32:10 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So this recording
32:12 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: is made in 1936, but the idea of a blue note and the idea of this kind of delta blue is like think the Mississippi River Delta Southern United States goes back way before anybody was recording this, probably late 1800s early 20th century.
32:27 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So take a listen, what the blue note is is him being
32:39 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't leave up the problem.
32:44 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to get up in the morning.
32:47 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't leave out this memory.
32:54 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
32:55 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's awesome.
32:55 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Super influential Robert Johnson in particular.
32:58 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Very influential on the early rock and roll guys.
33:00 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Keith Richards and... Yeah.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_04]: That was a man thing?
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:05 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Robert Johnson.
33:05 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Robert Johnson.
33:06 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Soldiers sold at the devil.
33:07 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
33:07 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a girl.
33:09 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Does he?
33:09 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
33:10 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
33:11 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's a they them.
33:13 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
33:14 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he sounds like a blues man to me But he's got a high-high singing voice that's sure when he goes He's not quite on the major third and not quite on the minor third.
33:26 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of halfway in between But he's playing the major chord so he should be
33:36 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_00]: the way low, we call that a blue note.
33:38 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's emotional associated with the blues, of course, right?
33:42 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And this becomes a big thing and not only the blues, but jazz takes it and eventually it gets to R and B.
33:51 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_00]: which then gets to rock.
33:53 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is Mead Lux Lewis with Hunky-Tonk train blues.
33:57 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_00]: This is 1927.
33:58 --> 34:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So actually recorded before the Robert Johnson tune.
34:02 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an example of what we call boogie woogie, which is sort of like a fast blues bass R&B.
34:07 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So the deal with this is this is on the piano.
34:10 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't bend the piano.
34:12 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't go get up in.
34:14 --> 34:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you get
34:16 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe this will tell you where I'm going with this.
34:18 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you get the piano to sound like a blue note?
34:21 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You play both of the notes at the same time.
34:23 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
34:24 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_00]: If you need a note between an A and A sharp, you can't go halfway between Robert Johnson.
34:29 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You just bang on both at the same time.
34:30 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you hear this super clash happening, this accent of dissidence, that's what's happening.
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are blue notes.
34:39 --> 34:40 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
34:56 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And it has the same effect that we see in the Wiesersong and the Metallica song, and all these other songs that you're playing, and it has the same effect, but it's just achieved in a different way.
35:04 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I mean, I would say you say in a different way, but I think this, the blues piano solution to how to do a blue note.
35:14 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: is then used by Weezer because how do you get that emotional effect?
35:17 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You play two notes at the same time.
35:19 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Great, right?
35:19 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Can bend a guitar note, but that's not what this kind of, it's not a guitar solo, it's a good tour progression more than anything.
35:25 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a riff and so they just get mad and they're just playing I'm clashing at the same time.
35:30 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And this major and minor third happening at the same time or music nerds, major third and sharp nine happening at the same time becomes a tradition in rock and roll.
35:40 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Here is the Hendrix chord as people call it.
35:44 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_04]: after Jimmy Hendrix James Hendrix.
35:45 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: James Hendrix.
35:46 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: James Hendrix.
35:46 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the Jimmy Hendrix experience playing purple haze from 1967 and you're going to hear what's called the Hendrix chord, which is a dominant sharp nine chord.
35:56 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This becomes his signature sound in a lot of ways.
35:59 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to the guitar here.
36:15 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a major in a minor third at the same time.
36:17 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Same era, tax man by the Beatles 1966.
36:21 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to the loud, bop bop bop.
36:23 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That is the same chord, a dominant, sharp nine.
36:27 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you how it will fit.
36:48 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_04]: If you had to pick between the Beatles and Jimmy Hendrix, who would you pick?
36:51 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: To to survive into adulthood, what do you mean to who I like more?
36:55 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
36:56 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a songwriter.
36:57 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a composer.
36:57 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I go with the Beatles.
36:58 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I go with the Beatles.
36:59 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
37:00 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I love Jimmy Hendrix experience.
37:02 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm envious of how he's able to sing while he plays the guitar like that.
37:07 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But
37:08 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, it's the Beatles, right?
37:10 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, those two little clips, I was like, wow, Jimmy Hendrix is so good.
37:14 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But so George Harrison with that.
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
37:17 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So redacted.
37:18 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But totally different kinds of good and hard times, right?
37:21 --> 37:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It just hit me that they, when you said the same era, and you don't, I don't equate them.
37:26 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I forget that they came, it was the same time.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a different crowd.
37:30 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, right?
37:31 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Different content, also.
37:33 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The Hendricks chord and the one in tax man is a dominant sharp 13, which is slightly different from what Rivers is using here.
37:39 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: He has a sixth instead of a seventh, fine who cares.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same basic effect.
37:44 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: What is clear to me is that even though maybe River's Cuomo is thinking about the Metallica song and his ear when he's writing this, the idea of the Louis Louis Corp progression and this sharp nine thing, major minor third mixed, is just baked into the DNA and whether he means to or not, he can't help but hear it when he's creating the song, I think.
38:18 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And the point of the episode which we're finally getting to is that this clash here, the blue note is going to basically infect in a good way the rest of the song and we're going to get little snippets of this as a concept throughout the rest of the song.
38:31 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:32 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's actually move forward.
38:33 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So although that was a nice little side quest there.
38:35 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the verse.
38:36 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me, do you notice the mound now?
38:51 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a combination of the baseline and the vocals together like making.
38:55 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Baseline's just playing a lot with a guitar bum bum bum.
38:57 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy because you hear it.
38:59 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: The vocal is singing.
39:00 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:01 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
39:02 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The vocal is just doing the clash over and over again with one singer as a melody.
39:07 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Really interesting.
39:08 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So the A, A sharp, A sharp and then he's just giving, he's milking that guitar riff over and over again.
39:14 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So nothing simple.
39:15 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: He's basically just singing the guitar part with the same rhythm and everything.
39:19 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So okay.
39:19 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Fine.
39:20 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not hearing a guitar playing it, but he's singing it.
39:22 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing too fancy there, then we get to the chorus, where it's not really there, which is really interesting, not there yet, but then we get to the guitar solo, which is after the second chorus, and we go to a new key.
39:51 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's the one, four, five, four, Louis Louis progression, but in the new key.
39:55 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Guess which key?
39:58 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_04]: G sharp, A flat, we're in F sharp.
40:01 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: F sharp.
40:02 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Our two clashing notes, the clashing note is the A natural.
40:05 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of the A sharp, we have the A natural, that's the clashing note that he's added.
40:09 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
40:10 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: A key, we're in now.
40:11 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_04]: A natural.
40:12 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Natural, yeah.
40:13 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So they go to a new key, what key of all the keys to go to, they go through the key of the blue note.
40:18 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The guitar solo is just Louis Louis, like meaning Louis Louis progression in the key of the blue note.
40:24 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They've gone to the blue key, which is in this case the A major key.
40:28 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So this can't be totally a coincidence.
40:31 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think like he's thinking about this male kind of note as being important.
40:37 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is a really cool moment and this
40:40 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear what your thoughts are, but I also want to give you a couple of examples of this exact kind of thing happening where a weird note comes in and then they turn that note into a chord or a key change.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I want the examples.
40:52 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to have examples.
40:52 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Always got to have examples.
40:53 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Although I've already played a fair amount, a lot of things in the mix here.
40:58 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember garbage?
40:59 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So they have a song super-vix-in.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_04]: She was so cute.
41:03 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_04]: What was her name?
41:04 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_04]: People like her.
41:05 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Her name is Charlie Manson.
41:07 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:07 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_00]: They're great.
41:08 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So like those of you that don't know, like alternative rock, industrial rock, kind of electronic influenced super vixen from their first album in 1996 has this awesome blue note, a flat three and they get our proud.
41:22 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end of the section, we go to that key.
41:25 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_00]: We go to the key of that blue note.
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a listen.
41:46 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's wild, it like changes everything.
41:49 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Changes so abruptly that note on that guitar part is so cool, Murrowed out, and then they go to that key.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just at a note.
41:56 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And her voice, her tone, or tan it, was it?
42:01 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, tambour.
42:02 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Tambour, I'm learning.
42:04 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Tambour is so pure and clean, which is not characteristic of that style of music.
42:10 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think the female vocal in that band is really helpful for a nice tambour.
42:14 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_04]: So, there you go.
42:15 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Good.
42:16 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, that's some really awesome notable use of actual pure silence, not nobody's playing, but not only is nobody playing, but they cut the mics, listen.
42:33 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That is so cool.
42:34 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
42:35 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just pause.
42:36 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pause and mute all the tracks.
42:38 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_04]: But imagine like live, they must really just be tight enough to pause.
42:42 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The drummer would do what they call choke the symbols.
42:46 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But you could never get it to sound like that.
42:48 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
42:50 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So one more example.
42:51 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember jet?
42:53 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I got two teas.
42:56 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_00]: No, jet with one tea.
42:57 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, then no.
42:58 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Jet is, they have a song, are you gonna be my girl from 12, 12?
43:01 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
43:02 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This song, it goes in the different direction.
43:04 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a weird flat third.
43:07 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the blue note, right?
43:08 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: A weird flat third chord in the progression on the hook.
43:12 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_00]: and then he sings the high-screen blue note.
43:15 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So he gives us the chord first, which isn't that weird in a kind of blues rock context, but then he sings the blue note.
43:20 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the second chord when he says, you home with me, that's our flat third blue note chord before he screams the blue note on the another man, you'll hear it.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So say, I'll be fine, let you
43:49 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, maybe that's nothing, but it's kind of cool that they're kind of talking to each other.
43:53 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The melody and the core progression by using this in both of these songs cases, a blue note, something that's out of the key, but has this hundred-year history in these kinds of styles of popular music.
44:04 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: What is this making you think of?
44:05 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, what I'm thinking about in terms of this song doesn't really have a lot to do with what you're talking about, but I still think it's valid to bring up.
44:32 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And that when I hear this song, I read it as being about depression and depression is something that we haven't talked too much about on this podcast, but it's really prevalent in our society.
44:45 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, sorry.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you back up?
44:47 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
44:48 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Association that this song is about depression.
44:49 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what makes you like I've read that, but this is a song that I went probably 20 something years of my life having no idea what it possible could be.
44:58 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I really feel like it's about depression by how the music is laid out that there is this dissonant and monotone repeated motif that underlies everything in the song.
45:10 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Even when the lyrics are changing and the mood of the song is generally changing, there's still the red under everything.
45:18 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_04]: that is very flat, and not musically flat, but has a flatter, well, blue notes flat.
45:25 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_04]: The blue notes flat, and it has a flatter affect, do you know the term affect means in terms of psychology?
45:32 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think of affect, like when I'm, if I'm creating a musical affect, it was the emotional contour of that moment.
45:37 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay, like that's, that means psychology.
45:40 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, we use it a lot as a,
45:43 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It, along with the term mood, like mood and affect.
45:47 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So the way that I conceptualize this term in psychology, it really just means like how you present to another person.
45:55 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you could be in a good mood, but have a flat affect and or low affect.
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you think of,
46:03 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_04]: It was taught to me like thinking about climate and temperature, right?
46:07 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_04]: That's like, your climate is your affect.
46:12 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And your mood is your temperature.
46:14 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So in terms of depression, a quantifier for depression or a diagnostic criteria, essentially it's like a flat or low affect.
46:21 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_04]: that someone's always like an ear, but from when the poo, like always flat, even though ear has like friends and good days and ups and downs, he's mostly that like flat, dissonant, monotone, affect, and that's consistent.
46:35 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And when I hear this song, that's what you hear, is that consistent tension.
46:40 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
46:41 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And there are certain lines, literally, that kind of nod to depression as well.
46:45 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, and I know that this might not be the writers intent, but Paul, who talks about the sweater song and coming and done and pulling the thread as you walk away, how depression can come and go, and you can go in out of depressive episodes, and that's also how we conceptualize the diagnostics around depression.
47:05 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Am I getting to intellectual?
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: in this podcast.
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I'm with you.
47:09 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:09 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
47:10 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So we have a couple different layers of depression.
47:13 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_04]: We have dysthemia, which is like a two week short term depressive moment.
47:19 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Disthemia.
47:20 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Disthemia.
47:20 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's dy, TH.
47:23 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have to spell it.
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And then we have depressive disorder.
47:26 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And then like a major depressive episode and like clinical depression, which is, and it all is in terms of duration, right?
47:34 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_04]: We also have other depressive types of disorders like adjustment disorders or like kind of short term depression as a result of an outside like something interfering with your life.
47:45 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So to pressure a lot affects a ton of different people on all different demographics, so around 280 million people worldwide have depression, which is about 3.8 or around 4% of the population, what age group do you think depression's most prevalent in?
48:00 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to say that it's like stereotypically going to be associated with young people like you know 16 to 25 or whatever I know that's not a demographic category, but I also know that my parents generation could be depressed and are more likely to be socialized to not letting me know.
48:20 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I say that to me and my stereotype to my assumptions have probably more to do with the fact that like it's more socially except like with my kids become teenagers and they they suffer from depression.
48:31 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_00]: They might tell me about it.
48:33 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
48:33 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I promise you my mom and dad would not have told their parents about it if they were suffering from depression.
48:39 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have no idea in other words what really would be the right age.
48:42 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really common one.
48:43 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_04]: really smart insight in that the demographics are changing, not because the prevalence is changing, which it probably is, too, but I think the level of reporting is changing.
48:55 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So we see a lot of 18 to 29-year-olds reporting depression because it's more socially acceptable and it's okay for them to talk about it, right?
49:03 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, like in that generation, which is very different from
49:09 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, Gen Z is very, you kind of eager to report depression and eager to normalize these feelings because they are very normal feelings with 30% of Americans feeling depressed at some point in their life.
49:19 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's pretty normal.
49:21 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's even like as much as I can say, oh, it's generational or whatever.
49:25 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also life circumstance in the sense that
49:28 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_00]: When I was 25 years old, if I went into a bout of depression and I wanted to go seek help, nobody's relying on me.
49:34 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's safe to do that.
49:35 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas now if I went into a bout of depression, I would feel, well, I can't admit to the world.
49:40 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm depressed.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got kids.
49:41 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a job.
49:42 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even though actually more is relying on me getting healthy.
49:45 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's not even just like to say my parents generation wasn't.
49:49 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't okay.
49:50 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I didn't feel okay to act on it because they were supposed to be holding it together as adults, right?
49:56 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just like, I mean, I don't know how you were brought up.
49:58 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I was brought up for sure.
50:00 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Feel like, okay, you're you're sad.
50:02 --> 50:03 [SPEAKER_04]: You're struggling.
50:03 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Just zip it up and keep going.
50:05 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you keep going.
50:07 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And that has taken a lot of unpacking in my parenting to like allow my kid to feel low and saying, it's okay if you're feeling anxious.
50:15 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's okay if you're feeling sad today.
50:16 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:17 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Because we weren't allowed to do that.
50:19 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like when I catch myself trying to convince my kids to be happy.
50:23 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like stop crying.
50:24 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like why?
50:25 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually, I'm not a stop crying guy.
50:27 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:28 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, like, almost like this, what right do you have to be happy?
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Like just be happy.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're happy, you'll be happy.
50:33 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, just fake it till you make it.
50:35 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though they don't say, like, if you smile, it actually will cause it.
50:39 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It does.
50:39 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't fake it till you make it.
50:40 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can trick your neurobiology for sure.
50:43 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you can.
50:44 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't cure depression.
50:45 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't cure depression, but I mean a lot of the depression meds, like that's what's depression is a biological disease, it's generational for sure, and it's a chemical imbalance, like it's a lot of times depression is situational, that just kicks in that chemical imbalance, and then that's why I think of this song, pull my thread as you walk away, that sometimes it just takes one circumstance to unravel someone if they already have a genetic predisposition
51:12 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_04]: absolutely what happens.
51:14 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And we see a high prevalence of like post-paramide oppression, women are definitely more likely to report depression than men.
51:22 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So the statistics say that women experienced depression more than men, which I would argue all day and anyone in my field would say like it isn't it's not that they experience it more than men, they just seek help more than men.
51:34 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's getting reported more that women are more depressed because they're the ones going
51:41 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_04]: certain demographics to present in therapy.
51:44 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, at the risk of oversharing like just my own personal experience, I am not chemically predisposed towards depression.
51:51 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But I already don't remember the term.
51:53 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the short term situation all this time, yeah?
51:55 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_00]: This time, yeah, that's the short like how.
51:57 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I had two weeks, yeah.
51:58 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_00]: At a few points in my life.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So longer than two weeks, I would think.
52:01 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say in retrospect, I was depressed.
52:05 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was usually situationally.
52:08 --> 52:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just like Malay is of being a teenager like there were a few points will up until my young adulthood where like no looking back I was depressed and I can promise you there was no no part of me that had any interest in going and getting help in those moments.
52:22 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just had to get through the situation that was causing it.
52:25 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And in my case, lucky for me, that was true, that once those situational stimuli changed and I got my life together, I didn't have to suffer through that anymore.
52:35 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But it does give me kind of a sense of empathy that, like, that didn't make those moments, because I have friends who I'm a musician, gosh, I play in bands.
52:43 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, of course, I know people who suffer from depression.
52:45 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about it with people I've worked with.
52:47 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember, still remember those feelings, even though it's been, it's been some number of years,
52:53 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't matter that I knew that two months later I'd be fine in two months before that I was totally fine in that moment.
52:58 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not crippling and I was never that in in dire straits, but yeah, like and I did not feel socially okay to deal with it.
53:09 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'll say that there are definitely moments in my life, and not when I was an adolescent, but after I had my daughter, I had like some postpartum stuff, but also for me, and this is like a disclosure, after I had my daughter, I had a pretty severe brain injury that Mark knows about, and if you'd blunt more information on that, you can check out, um, this episode of a scissors and scrubs podcast called burnt toast where I detail into that, I had a brain aneurysm that had ruptured.
53:34 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_04]: when I was about five days postpartum.
53:36 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_04]: And there you go.
53:38 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of times with brain injury, there's a comorbidity with depression afterwards.
53:42 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, uh, concussions or brain injuries, some strokes.
53:46 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_04]: After those moments, there was a higher risk of depression.
53:48 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_04]: So for me, I had that brain injury, and I just had a baby.
53:51 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So I was really at risk for depression, and I did feel depressed.
53:54 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_04]: and it was the first time I had ever felt those feelings after studying mental health academically for a really long time.
54:02 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't understand it until I felt it.
54:05 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And now it's giving me such empathy and insight towards students I work with like you can kind of almost you can see it on someone now that you know what it feels like.
54:15 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you can see that it's like they have
54:17 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Someone told me depression was like having grace, blood, running through your veins instead of blood.
54:23 --> 54:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that that is, I love a visual metaphor and that's how it feels.
54:27 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you just feel like you don't have any gas in your tank and you can see it in students now.
54:32 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm thankful for my experience with depression and anxiety as well because it helps me empathize with other humans in a way that I wouldn't be able to if I didn't experience it myself.
54:43 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So,
54:44 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let me just say, parenthetically, if you need help, please go get help.
54:48 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
54:48 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think that it's okay.
54:50 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, the tagline is like, it's okay to not be okay.
54:54 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, so many people experience depression, especially between like 12 and 25.
54:59 --> 55:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, and that population is so vulnerable.
55:03 --> 55:09 [SPEAKER_04]: You can like enoculate them towards stigma, like ever against stigma.
55:09 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_04]: There's something called additutal enoculation that we do in social cycle.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Additutal?
55:14 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
55:15 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Or I think it's additutanol.
55:16 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Additutanol.
55:17 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Enoculation.
55:18 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a social psych concept.
55:21 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_04]: That means once you know about it, you're not going to fall victim to it.
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I know a lot about cults.
55:27 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to fall victim to a cult, because I know what to trick up for, right?
55:30 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So if we keep talking with our kids about mental health and, you know, I use language with my daughter, like, you're feeling kind of, you don't feel sick, but you don't have energy, you don't feel like going to school, like, maybe today we take a brain break, right?
55:43 --> 55:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And we start doing that during COVID, like you don't want to log in to Zoom, like, let's take a brain break today, and we'll go for a walk, and we'll get some healthy food, and we'll find some friends to hang out with.
55:52 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll just like fill our buckets again.
55:54 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So tomorrow you can like do what you have to do.
55:56 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's so important to use that language with our children because then it it populates them from falling into that trap of like I just need to suck it up and keep moving forward.
56:07 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so what's so interesting about that is an idea is also the potential it has to help somebody actually know when something's really wrong.
56:15 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I I'm always
56:18 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_00]: my son is very active.
56:20 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He plays a lot of sports.
56:21 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He's also gets injured a lot.
56:23 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got broken limbs, stuff like that.
56:24 --> 56:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But also sometimes he gets hit by the pitch and he's hurt, but he's not injured.
56:29 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's not yet old enough to really look at me and go, dad, I'm cool.
56:34 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you like in that moment?
56:35 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes he doesn't know if he broke his leg or if he just kind of hurt himself.
56:38 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
56:38 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this language.
56:40 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that when I was 25, I would know the difference between, I just need a brain break, and I'm having a quarter-life crisis, like, I think you need to practice this language.
56:49 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to learn to recognize, oh my god, am I getting sick?
56:52 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a headache.
56:53 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I just have, I just need a cup of coffee, like recognize the different layers of trouble you're in.
56:58 --> 57:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's cool because I've been, you know, I'm misicologist, and I've been like putting this language into my kids since forever.
57:07 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And I always kept thinking, like, is it doing anything?
57:10 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's just like, long-con experiment.
57:12 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm running on this subject I have.
57:14 --> 57:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, if I keep using language and modeling behavior, that's inclusive.
57:22 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_04]: to mental health concerns, right?
57:24 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like, you know, oh, we were in that crowded museum and, oh, I don't know, like, I start my body started feeling weird.
57:30 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Like my heart was beating fast and I got really sweaty and I was feeling really anxious in that moment.
57:34 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_04]: How did you feel in that moment, child?
57:37 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And she'll say, oh, I was fine.
57:39 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And now she's using language like, she'll hang out with friends and come home.
57:43 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_04]: And she'll come home and be kind of drained and like, oh, are you okay?
57:47 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Just something happened.
57:48 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_04]: She was like, no, she'll say, like, oh, my social batteries, just empty.
57:51 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I need to recharge.
57:52 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, it's working.
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_04]: It's working.
57:55 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And she'll say, like, oh, I just, I'm feeling kind of low today.
57:58 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I just need some fruits and vegetables in a good night's sleep.
58:02 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I just think I need to take a long shower and have a good night's sleep, and I'll feel better.
58:05 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, yes.
58:06 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
58:08 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose to like swearing at you or something, taking it out.
58:12 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Because it's a 10 year old girl.
58:13 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_04]: She might still hear that.
58:14 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_04]: That's going to happen to a little bit.
58:15 --> 58:21 [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that if we normalize mental health, we don't have to just suffer in silence.
58:21 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know, to get back to the song.
58:24 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_04]: there's a we haven't listened to a lot the audio where he's at the party and you can hear people chatting in the background before the second verse.
58:32 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_04]: That like to me mimics how depression feels like you're kind of in a bubble and people are like talking at you and talking around you but you're not really dialed in to what they're saying.
58:43 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I get that vibe from the song of how depression feels.
58:46 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never thought about that but like maybe I need to get it all get a clip of it.
59:12 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There's two guys talking and then a man and a woman talking in the second time.
59:16 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the guys is all like exuberant and the other guy has a flat affect.
59:21 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's the flat affect guy we see later where the woman's like, oh, I'm not gonna go.
59:25 --> 59:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna go, but my husband's gonna go.
59:26 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.
59:27 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a guy that he's probably being flirted with by this girl and he's just like, okay.
59:32 --> 59:40 [SPEAKER_00]: and is that almost supposed to be interpreted as he's the main character of the song, the guy with the flat affect, I never thought of that.
59:40 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_04]: That's all I think about when I listen to this.
59:42 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's fascinating.
59:43 --> 59:44 [SPEAKER_00]: See, this is this is true.
59:44 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And then like the dread that goes through that like, you know, dissonant cord that you're explaining and that goes through, it is just that like rumination and those repeated thoughts of, you know, self-like
59:57 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It just is this underlying static that it can happen exist in a depressed mind.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this song better than I thought it was the song?
01:00:05 --> 01:00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I chose this song because I listened to the blue album relatively recently all the way through.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've said it's not one of my favorite.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Weasers songs certainly not off that album.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just struck by how much the blue note just infecs it.
01:00:18 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like that has to be an episode despite me this being whatever song.
01:00:21 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like I'm getting the song from an emotional.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: the flat affect of the song that is so weasor, but also so feeling of kind of depression.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_00]: In that kind of gen X90's way, it feels so 90's and it's like although alternative rock of that era has these, it's called, but sometimes stop-start where you'll have a extremely loud chorus and then a quiet verse, you know, think like smells like teen spirit by Nirvana, of course.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Aside from that, there's like not a lot of emotionality to the singing, to the guitar playing.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of like, dissonance without a lot of passion behind it, right?
01:00:59 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a flat affect of the depression of the nihilistic 90s.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_04]: All I know is when I hear this song, it is undoubtable to me that whoever wrote this suffered from depression at some point in their life.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_04]: because it's so representative of the vibe and just the general, I mean, depressants and mood disorders, so I hate to say mood so much, because it's funny if you know.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_04]: But of the mood of the song, it does have a really depressed tonality to it, the lyrics note to a lot of depressive symptoms.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just, I think a lot of people related to it, because it did appeal to an audience of like, yeah, 15 to, you know, late adolescence.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_04]: that like kind of maybe understood what this was like without naming it because we weren't allowed to name it in the 90s that much.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's great that it can travel through the music that easily without me having any idea what this is about, but hang on a second, what am I trying to argue here that this is a blue note from the blues from 19 odds and that is that note is usually
01:02:03 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The blues is sadness, but it's also like resignation to your Latin life, like it's not just I'm sad you dumped me.
01:02:10 --> 01:02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something heavier and deeper about the idea of the blues, and here it is, even though I think rivers thinks he's just channeling this Metallica riff, which isn't exactly a positive...
01:02:22 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, aesthetic source and I don't think the name of that metallic or some.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome home sanitarium.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not exactly like you know, Sanitarium.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So can we wrap up talking about music?
01:02:34 --> 01:02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a few more examples of this blue note.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember the blue note is based on this chord.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the idea of that flat third note occurring against the major third.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We already heard the key change went to that note.
01:02:49 --> 01:02:54 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens in the last big chorus, which normally is just the Louis Louis progression.
01:03:08 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You hear that epic core there?
01:03:10 --> 01:03:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, guess which chord.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_04]: A natural.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the A chord.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The A not A sharp, the A natural, the flat 30's the blue note.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's this loud hit, the bass, the guitar, and the drums all hit bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, right?
01:03:22 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that chorus ends with this squeaky high note.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Rivers cracks his voice and it sounds great.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And Brian Bell singing back up vocals, listen here.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What note is he singing?
01:03:45 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the blue note.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: He's hitting the blue note.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's actually doing it like a blue note in the sense that he's kind of bad to tune.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And his voice cracking fits the sort of sloppiness of that flavor.
01:03:57 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's against the major chord below it.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So we got the Louis Louis court progression that does not have that a natural in it.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It has a sharp, but he's doing it.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And it works.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And it feels very bluesy.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It does.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels like he's submitting kind of.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, submitting with a really powerful sort of
01:04:13 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah just a resignation interesting and then we end with more of it what you're going to hear is a guitar solo playing the blue note while the backing vocals are singing the really high blue note.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So it starts as just a chord, even though that chord maybe has a legacy going back a hundred years.
01:04:53 --> 01:04:58 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like five disparate of hearts of the song that are all using just that single note that clashes in the chord.
01:04:59 --> 01:05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a song about depression.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like it works.
01:05:02 --> 01:05:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Allegedly.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Allegedly, yeah.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Blue album.
01:05:05 --> 01:05:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's right.
01:05:06 --> 01:05:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And the blue album, yeah, wow.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, where are you at with sweaters?
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you a sweater?
01:05:11 --> 01:05:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, you know, I'm so glad you asked.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I love the sweaters.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I love sweater weather.
01:05:18 --> 01:05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited, which here is a brief window of fall and spring.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:26 [SPEAKER_04]: If I love fall, falls my favorite New England season.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:30 [SPEAKER_04]: If you've never seen fall in New England, like, you know, it's the tops.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm pro sweaters, solid stance.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I think fall is beautiful in New England, but the same weather happens in spring, except summer is on the other side of it, and I look everybody.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a professor.
01:05:45 --> 01:05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: My work life is a little less busy over the summer when spring happens.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It means oh my god we're almost done we're as fall as oh my god the winter's coming, but I love it.
01:05:56 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I love like the start of the new academic year and like the energy and the excitement and like the potential it brings.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I love that and I don't really like spring because I have allergies nice.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's tough.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really have hay fever as a problem, but the sweater never was a force in my life until I moved here because, you know, LA and San Diego, where I where I live before I moved to New England, yeah, it's cold.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be quite cold.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, 38 at night once in San Diego in January at 3 AM or whatever.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's like a point where like I'm putting a jacket on.
01:06:32 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:06:32 --> 01:06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: If I don't have a jacket on, I'm like in short sleeve, right?
01:06:36 --> 01:06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But the sweater as an essential layer element also in New England, that was not.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The song...
01:06:44 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: seems to be about sweaters, but not about sweaters, so I thought I'd ask.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:49 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's about like covering up.
01:06:49 --> 01:06:55 [SPEAKER_04]: It's about like putting arm around a protection on and then someone pulls one thread of this sweater and it like then your exposed suddenly it's gone.
01:06:55 --> 01:06:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
01:06:56 --> 01:06:58 [SPEAKER_04]: If you could pick between a sweater and a hoodie, what would you be?
01:06:59 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm more of a hoodie.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been hoodie.
01:07:01 --> 01:07:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
01:07:02 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've never, will do you do the hood on the hoodie?
01:07:05 --> 01:07:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no.
01:07:06 --> 01:07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been a hat person until again moving here and you have to have the
01:07:13 --> 01:07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And now that I am fully immersed in youth baseball culture, I now am frequently wearing a hat when I'm at baseball practice, but you know, I had the spiked hair when I was in my 20s and stuff like that and the hat would compromise that and so did the hoodie.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've never been a hoodie guy.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would go with a bold colored sweater any day over a hoodie.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I'd pick a hoodie over sweater.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: The end.
01:07:36 --> 01:07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to have to learn to live with our disagreement.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:41 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it takes all kinds.
01:07:42 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it's maturity also.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Nicole, let's read the outro credits.
01:07:47 --> 01:07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go first.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you go as fast as you can.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is hosted by me Mark Poppony and Nicole Vacher, I also produce.
01:07:55 --> 01:07:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Please be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and a review.
01:07:57 --> 01:08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know what you think on social media, where at never music pot on all the major platforms.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also send us an email at nevermusicpotagmail.com.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Every so often we'll do a mailbag episode while I answer all your burning questions.
01:08:06 --> 01:08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Never mind the music is hosted by me Nicole Vatcher in my pop and who also produces.
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01:08:18 --> 01:08:20 [SPEAKER_04]: You can also send us an email at nevermusapot.gmail.com.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Every so often we'll do a meltback episode where we answer all your burning questions.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Boom!