#68 - Moneyball

[00:00:04] Hey everyone, David here. The wait is over, Severance is back. The Lorehounds are teaming up with Properly Howard to bring you comprehensive coverage of Season 2. Join John, Anthony, Steve, and myself each week as we dive into this amazing show.

[00:00:21] Here's what you need to know. We've set up a dedicated feed for our Severance coverage. To join us, just search for Severance Lorehounds in your podcast player or click the feed link in our link tree. You'll find that in the show notes below.

[00:00:38] If you're already a Patreon or Supercast subscriber, don't worry. You'll get the ad-free versions automatically in your regular feed. Plus, exclusive access to our upcoming bonus episodes that we'll be announcing soon. The early reviews are incredible. Apple's marketing push is huge and we cannot wait to explore this season with you.

[00:01:01] And unlike the music dance experience, you don't need Mr. Milchick's permission to join us. Don't forget, you can find the feed link in our link tree in the show notes or just search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get your podcasts. Join us for what's shaping up to be an incredible season.

[00:01:19] The Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other full fiction. Today, we take a look at the Brad Pitt baseball vehicle, Moneyball.

[00:02:08] Moneyball features Pitt and Jonah Hill as number crunchers who disrupt the baseball world by using analytics to build a competitive team with a laughably low budget. And somehow, it's really good. With me as always to discuss this movie is Dr. Anthony LaDonna. Steve, would this movie be better if it was titled Revenge of the Nerds 4? Yeah, right. Really, they took it to the jocks this time.

[00:02:35] I mean, is this not just the... It's like the Revenge of the Nerds grew up. They're a little bit less interested in girls' panties now. Yeah, they're certainly less rapey. Oh my gosh. Those movies were so horrible. Yeah, you know, and it's like, I think we were... I don't know about your experience. Did you see it when it came out or on VHS or cable or something?

[00:03:01] I think that this was one of those movies that Jeff and I watched at like 1 o'clock in the morning. Right. And it was... Yeah, it definitely required a friend that had lower morals and great access. Or parents who are not quite exactly, you know, paying attention. Right. They're like, oh, nerds. Yeah, that sounds fun.

[00:03:24] Yeah, those movies were... I mean, those movies were why I was not allowed to watch R-rated films, right? Right. So, it's exactly the movie I was going to watch in secret. Well, it's funny because like, you're looking back, it's like the big scandal for being like our age or whatever watching those was because it was nudity. Mm-hmm. So, then all we were really hyper-focused on was, well, we'll get to that nudity.

[00:03:49] And what our parents should have been concerned about was how vile these humans were and how they were being celebrated. Oh, yes. That they were using their intelligence. I mean, they were way worse than the jocks. Like, way worse. The jocks were pretty bad, but it was almost like these are super villains. The jocks were bullies and they had, from what we could tell, consensual relationships with these women.

[00:04:17] These jocks were on their way to like being kind of mediocre, fat, middle-aged men. The nerds in those movies were on their way to being Lex Luthor. Yeah, these were psychopaths. Yeah. They just spent the whole network to spy on women changing and just, I mean, in a weird way, you know, because we just want to watch a movie with nudity. But, again, these people signed up for it because they were actors. But maybe we were also villains. I mean, yeah, sure.

[00:04:47] We were middle schoolers. Middle schoolers, by definition, are villainous, right? There's nothing. Yeah, we were middle school boys, which meant that we were the worst people on the planet. Yeah. So, Steve Moneyball is a movie that is kind of a little bit Revenge of the Nersey in that. This whole thing was about Jonah Hill wanting to watch Athlete's Shower. Sorry.

[00:05:17] Oh, goodness. So, I've seen this movie probably ten times. Wow. This is sort of a go-to for me. And for a lot of years, this was sort of on your radar. You probably knew that you would like it. But, really, it was just in the last year or so that you watched this movie. Yeah, I think it was when we were leaving New York. I was on the plane and I watched it. So, you liked it?

[00:05:46] I did. I did. I actually liked it way more than I thought I would. I mean, I thought I would enjoy it. Maybe more academically than from just a pure drama viewing. But, it really works. And I'm looking forward to talking to you about this because of baseball and regional relationship to the team involved.

[00:06:13] But, also, I think baseball as a sport is a big deal, especially for you. I mean, it is for me to some degree. But, I think to you, it holds a little more of a romantic spot in your heart. And then baseball as baseball and film, I think, matters to you probably more so than it does to me. And then baseball as a metaphor, I think, is really important to dissect.

[00:06:40] So, I think this could be our sappiest, maybe least interesting podcast. So, enjoy. Well, I'll just say this. That I wrote down when I was watching this movie, aside from learning biblical Hebrew, I think I've spent the most hours of my life just sitting and thinking about baseball.

[00:07:00] Strategizing, thinking of fantasy trades, thinking about how to reinvent it to make it better, thinking about ways to make the middling giants a juggernaut. You know, reading books about theory. And then I was done. I wrote that down. I was like, aside from biblical Hebrew, no, no, no. This is it. This is what I've thought about most in my life.

[00:07:25] I don't even think learning any ancient language took as much of my time. Mostly, probably mostly in my 20s, but well into my 30s. I would fall asleep at night thinking of a baseball. So, I love films. And, you know, some of my favorite films are baseball films. Like, Bull Durham is one of my favorite comedies.

[00:07:50] And this film, Moneyball, I almost like to spite the baseball. Like, as a treatise for baseball, this film has a lot of problems. Sure. Yeah, yeah. But as a film, it works. And it works so well that it's almost a miracle. It's almost impossible that this movie works at all. It breaks so many rules of storytelling. But it follows a couple really well.

[00:08:21] And so, as a film, it's one of my favorites. And yet, I think it completely misunderstands baseball in a way that doesn't really offend me because it works so well as a film. All right. We're going to definitely want to dive into the misunderstanding of baseball. Because I would – I mean, I'm really curious to see how you define that because isn't that the point, right?

[00:08:44] I mean, isn't the point of this movie is to talk about the notion of sabermetrics and the notion of using sort of analytical look at baseball. And it's at its core, supposedly, by those who are sort of old school, misunderstanding the game of baseball. And that's the theme, right? Well, this movie is – I mean, we can save the technical stuff for the end or whatever. But I think this movie is hated by baseball professionals. They hate it.

[00:09:12] They think that this completely misunderstands sort of the analytics revolution. It kind of boils down the entire thing to, like, just on-base percentage, which is a stat that existed long before Bill James, right? Right, right. So, all right. So, the baseball heads hate this movie. And, of course, people who, like, are anti-analytics are not thrilled with this because, oh, this is the guy that ruined baseball, right?

[00:09:42] Right. So – but as a film – and I don't know. I kind of oscillate between those two spectrums. As a film, it's just freaking amazing for all of its faults. Like, you know, I think in the past I've – I think originally I would start these things off by saying, you got a movie pitch for this. Mm-hmm. I can't imagine what the movie pitch for this was. Right?

[00:10:13] Right. I mean, it was a successful book, right? I mean, it's a baseball movie, right? Yeah. So, it's a baseball movie. You're like, all right, great. So, we're going to follow, what, an aging baseball player with one last shot, you know, to win a big game. Nope. Not going to do that. All right. But it's going to be an underdog team, right, that wins in the end. No, underdog for sure. But they're going to be really crappy at the end, too. Yeah.

[00:10:39] They're going to play above their, you know, sort of above their station to a degree. Uh-huh. They're going to win a lot of regular season games, but they're kind of not going to be any better than they were the year before, before the philosophy was implemented. Right. And knowing – and we'll talk about this, I'm sure, further – and knowing what we know about the A's now. Yeah. This movie is kind of an abject failure. No kidding. Yeah. So, what's this movie about? Who's the main character? Well, he's kind of upper management.

[00:11:09] Is he lovable? No, he's kind of an asshole. He kind of, like, walks around and fires people. He doesn't really want to get to know people because it makes him harder to trade them. And does he achieve something? Well, kind of, but kind of not because 10 years later, he's going to be such a horrible loser that his team is going to leave the city and move to Las Vegas. Yeah. And not even that.

[00:11:33] Like, they're kind of sort of in Sacramento for a minute, and maybe they're going to Las Vegas. Right. It's so bad that they're not even going to play in a Major League Baseball stadium anymore. And the fan base that was rabid in this movie is absolutely miserable and hates everything about this team. Yay! Right. Got him! So it doesn't, it's, it's, it's, it's a ridiculous movie pitch.

[00:12:03] You know, there's no, there's no love interest. Right. Basically, it's, you're rooting for an ineffective middle manager. I mean, I guess he's upper management, but. Right. And he can't really explain his vision to the people he really needs to explain his vision to. He hates the funk. Jeremy Giambi has got to have that funk. Yeah. He's all about the funk.

[00:13:14] Why are we rooting for this guy? It's, it's, it's kind of bizarre that we're rooting for this guy at all. Right. And so, okay. So what's the heart of the movie? The heart of the movie is he needs to stay in Oakland for his daughter. Like that, if you're going to boil it down, it's like, here's a guy, he wants to win.

[00:13:39] He becomes really well respected so much so that he's almost going to have to leave the city and leave his daughter behind. Like, oh, well, that's got heart. All right. Let's do an opening scene where he's like, he and his daughter have this great bonding. We don't meet the daughter until minute 43 in this movie. Yeah. And it's, and not only that, but like, he buys her a guitar and she kind of sings and it's like, it's kind of sweet, but not. And that's kind of it. You know what I mean?

[00:14:08] There's not a ton with the daughter. It's not a ton. And it's such a late development in the movie that I don't know why this movie works. And yet it breaks all those rules. It is fundamentally a sports movie. You know, you do have that emotional upswell of music when the home run is flying over the fence. You've got that. It's in this movie.

[00:14:36] But in every other way, it's just a failure of a sports movie. And yet it might be the best sports movie. I don't get it. I really don't get this movie. So that's it. I'm really glad that you said all those things because I've seen it twice and I find myself and I'm going to be very vulnerable. I find myself like emotionally moved by this movie. I cried twice yesterday watching this. It makes no sense.

[00:15:06] Why does this movie do that? How, like, this movie is, if you sat, like you talk about elevator pitch, if you explain this, the other person's like, just, I'm bored. Shut up. Exactly. Exactly. Hey, what, you know how, you know how baseball is like about people and it's romance and it's metaphors? Like, uh-huh. Well, what if it was just, uh, uh, just about an algorithm?

[00:15:31] Like, what if we took the focus off of the, uh, off of the interesting people and put them on Jonah Hill, who's a mathematician? So, so what are you saying? I would say, well, this movie is about, uh, about a guy who helps a franchise save a lot of money. Um. That's right. Does the team come together at the end? Do they fall in love with each other? As a team? Is the team like bonding?

[00:16:01] Well, he trades most of them to save money. Yeah, the most interesting personalities get moved right away. But here's the thing is they really got under budget. Oh, did they use that money to, to fund a private stadium? No, no, no. They're moving. So, so, so I love this movie so much. It's crazy. I don't understand. I, I am also get like, you said you, you cried.

[00:16:30] I'm like, I'm like, I spent a lot of like the time watching this movie and then like, I'll get up and like do something around the house. And I'm like, why am I feeling so melancholic? And like, how am I moved? And like, like, I'm just, I feel like I'm on the verge of just like, do I need to talk to my mom or dad or what's going on? Like, why? It doesn't make, and it's at moments that are like, he's watching film. I just don't get it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:59] Is, is there, is this hypnosis? Subliminal man wrote this movie. It's crazy because like, it's, it, there, there is a, I think to me, this movie is a hundred percent about tone. Like they do something tonally with the music, with the pacing, the dialogue that just somehow puts you in a trance and all of this matters to you. Yeah.

[00:17:27] And I don't, it is a bit of movie magic. I mean, this, this feels about as, as, as magical as any superhero movie you could create because it, it elicits odd emotions. And it's, it's the reason why I put this movie off is I'm like, how is this going to be interesting at all? And then like, I'm like, how, why would you have Brad Pitt for this role? And you're like, well, you have to have Brad Pitt in this role. He's crushing it. But what is it? Yeah. Well, we can talk about Brad Pitt.

[00:17:56] I think this is his most important movie. Let's talk about him in a bit, but I do want to sort of wrap up this, this other conversation first. I think that the middle hour of this movie, you could almost chalk up as a typical sports movie. Sure. If you just took the middle hour, it'd be like, this team is a failure. They can't connect. They can't communicate well.

[00:18:24] But when they start, then they start selling the vision. The vision allows this underdog team to set the American League record for the longest streak in the regular season. You got Chris Pratt. He hits a home run. You, you love Chris Pratt. You know, you really felt for him psychologically. He gets to be the hero. If the movie ends there, it's pretty typical, right?

[00:18:55] Totally. But you bookended it with this almost The Big Short-esque great man, genius, innovator story. Did you ever see The Big Short? Yes. Okay. I love The Big Short. I like, I rewatched The Big Short too. I think it's a very underrated movie. At the end of The Big Short, I just feel angry. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:24] It's a depressing movie. Sure. Well, well, a very well-made depressing movie. And this movie is kind of like that, but at the end of it, it should be depressing. But I just want to go hug my children instead. What? I don't understand how any of that works. All right. Well, let me play it for you.

[00:19:48] I think is the best, not the best, but here's what I think is the most important scene of the film. Dad, there's no way you're going to lose your job, right? What? Well, I don't know. I'm just wondering. Where did you hear that? Well, I go on the internet sometimes. Well, don't do that. Don't go on the internet or watch TV or read newspapers or talk to people.

[00:20:17] I don't talk to people. I just read stuff. Honey, everything's fine. Everything's fine. Really, you don't have to worry. But if you lose your job, will you have to move away? Honey, I'm not going to lose my job. You don't have to worry. Hey, there's no problem. All right? I got uptown problems, which are not problems at all.

[00:20:48] You're not worried, right? No. Okay. So that's the biggest problem for this character. He's got problems with their uptown problems. Why should I care? But he loves his daughter. He's got this connection with her. He's divorced. And so if this doesn't work, this big scheme he's got doesn't come to fruition, he might have to leave town.

[00:21:16] And he just can't imagine that because it means leaving his daughter behind. That's the only reason I should like this guy. Right. That is the only reason I should like him at all. And that's an hour into the film. And all of a sudden, I care deeply that this whole thing works out. Right?

[00:21:38] Well, and also, this is the same guy who has no problem getting rid of other people in the same situation because that's his job. Exactly. So he even explains it. Like, he even illustrates that to the Jonah Hill character about, you know, when they're doing their sort of role playing about trading or cutting a player. And it's like, he says all those things. Like, I just got my kid in the school and they just made friends and blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, yeah, you don't say all that.

[00:22:07] You just say, you know, it's very cold and it's a very callous thing. So the juxtaposition of, like, in order for him to try and maintain a relationship with his daughter, he has to be a good GM. And in order to be a good GM, you have to be able to make those kinds of decisions to other people. Yeah, what's the metaphor he uses with Jonah Hill? He says, would you rather get shot in the head or get shot in the chest five times and bleed to death? Right. So he views his job as being an executioner. Right. Right.

[00:22:37] He's an executioner. Executioner. But because I'm following him and because I don't know the children of the other, you know, the other actors in this film, I kind of don't care that, you know, 20-year-old Carlos Pena needs to go play for the Phillies now. Right? Right. I think, ah, he's going to be okay. I don't know if Billy Beans is going to be okay because he's just so depressed. Right. He's so depressed in this movie.

[00:23:05] I just think if this doesn't work out, I don't know what he's going to do. You know, he might jump off the Bay Bridge or something. So I think there's another element to this, I think, that helps you and I like a movie like this. And you mentioned the fantasy aspect because there is this notion of, like, when you play fantasy sports, you do sort of put on your GM hat, right? You get to pretend you're a GM. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:28] So it's, and that's the thing is when you hear fantasy football, fantasy baseball, I think it would be different if people, if a game was called fantasy general managing. I don't think people would find that nearly as interesting. But at the core, that's what you're doing.

[00:23:42] So I think a movie like this does work in the post-fantasy sports era because people have a different relationship with the concepts of trades and cuts and movement and those types of things. So on some level, people are mimicking this sort of lifestyle. So there is something that resonates with that, even though the stakes couldn't be any further from each other.

[00:24:13] There's this element of... No, I think that when we, like, back in the day when we were doing fantasy baseball, there would be times when I would have two or three conversations going at once. Mm-hmm. And I'd be like, oh, I don't know, this person offered me Tomei. Ah, gosh, I love Tomei. But second half Bagwell, you know, you get second half Bagwell, you might win the, you know. So you've got these sort of trades going around and you like to think that you are Billy Bean in that moment, right?

[00:24:42] You'd like to think that you're playing, you know, four-dimensional chess. Most of the time, you're just screwing up your team, you know? True, true. Yeah, yeah. But I think, and also what I think appeals is that you're watching this and you're like, wait, so these phone calls aren't that different than the calls that I would make? Yeah, exactly. There's a certain, you know, and I don't know how much of that is played up for the film, but, like, there's a certain casualness as he's talking to agents and, like, you screwed me.

[00:25:12] And then, like, boom, off to the next thing. And then you're playing one to play the other. And so there is this element of, like, in order, again, in order for him to be good at all this, he's talking about altering the lives of all these people. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. And this, like, world, again, which makes this movie fascinating is that he's, the thing that you're rooting for him to try and do is to maintain his family.

[00:25:38] And in order to do that, he has to disrupt everybody else and to do it in sort of this callous way. So I think there's an interesting juxtaposition that works because there's this idea, this romantic idea. And this is where I think you and I can really get into some baseball talk is that some of the romance of baseball is truly romance. It's false, right? And there's these scouts and they're like, this is the way we do it. You know the players and you want the look and you want this and you want that.

[00:26:08] It's like, and they don't want to be reduced to numbers. It's like, they're still commodities. You're still treating them like commodities. It's the only difference is the analytics takes the human element out of it, which is, again, kind of this romantic false notion. Every conversation that they're having about these guys are not treating them like human beings, but images or, you know, it's a perceived, it's a perception. They're no less objective. It's true. These players are no less objectified.

[00:26:36] It's just that one group, the scouts, are like eyeballing, like, yeah, that guy looks about six foot. I can just kind of eyeball it. And the other guy's got a ruler, you know. The other guy's got a measuring tape. Right. Well, you know, we could just, we could use this tool. We could find out exactly how tall that guy is. Right? Exactly.

[00:26:58] It sort of, it kind of reduces it to kind of like scientist and stupid, which I really don't think that that's how it was in reality. But for a movie, you need that. You need that like really, really simple explanation. Like, that guy, that guy wants to use a scientific tool and these guys want to use their gut. And, of course, you know who's going to win.

[00:27:24] You know because you've got logic and you really can kind of set aside the romance of baseball to kind of root for the truth. Right? Mm-hmm. Sure. And so that's kind of part of what this movie is. Like, well, of course you're going to root for Galileo. You're not going to root for the church. Right. Right? These guys are Galileo and these other guys are the old guard. So there's part of that.

[00:27:52] But at the end of the movie, you know, what's the statement? It's like, it's hard not to be romantic about baseball. Yeah. And so at the end of the day, I don't know if it says anything different about these guys. They are still romantic about baseball. And it didn't necessarily work in the end. But for whatever reason, it feels like they're the winners. Right. And I'm interested. Well, and that's what I'm curious about this end of this movie, right?

[00:28:21] Because it ends with, you're just a loser, Dad. You're just a loser, Dad. Uh-huh. You know, enjoy the show. And that part is really interesting to wrestle with because he doesn't take the Red Sox job. Right. And they win despite him. Right? So two years later, they win the World Series without him when they thought he would have been the key.

[00:28:49] So his methodology, according to the film anyway, I mean, obviously, the Red Sox have money that the A's don't. So that's the other part. When you've got a bigger budget, you can afford to make a mistake and you can buy your way out of it. But, you know, we're sitting in a world where we just watched the Yankees and the Dodgers pay their way all the way to, you know, a World Series face-off. So it's like this movie becomes, you know, null and void. Right?

[00:29:18] I mean, it's Giants fans who kind of went through a supposed, you know, analytics, you know, approach to mediocrity. I mean, they had their big season that sort of kind of came out of nowhere that would have looked really good in a movie if it wasn't followed by, you know, sitting at 500 for the next couple years. These things don't, they don't pan out.

[00:29:44] And so you're left with because you know, you know, where this goes. It's like, what is the moral of this story? And it's an interesting question because he turns down the big money in the big market and he stays where he's at and it doesn't work out. I mean, it really doesn't. I mean, the movie doesn't quite know where we are now, but it's like it was kind of clear where things are going to go. The Red Sox win the World Series and he's now multiple times. Yes.

[00:30:14] Right. And he could have had that say that he could have leveraged. That's kind of what you do, right? You build and you leverage. But did he stay because it was romantic or did he stay for his daughter? Did he stay because it was comfortable? Like there's a lot of interesting questions about his character because I don't feel like we know him really well, even though we're we're invested. Yeah, I think I mean, and you could like, you know, we're kind of making a joke about it.

[00:30:42] But I mean, if you're making twelve million dollars a year, you can fly to see your daughter a bit. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, there there's certainly that. Here's my take on on the baseball part of this. Right. So the the rest of the league would catch up. Right. And they'd be like, oh, wait a second. What are they doing? Let's let's copy that. Right. That's kind of what that's kind of what baseball did. It was like Boston Red Sox are now going to hire Bill James.

[00:31:14] And, you know, all of a sudden these Oakland A's front office guys are going to go off to work for the Dodgers. They're going to go off to work for the Giants. All of a sudden, in the course of the next seven or eight years, baseball is going to catch up and everyone's going to have an analytics department. Right. Now everyone's working with the same information. And guess what? You're back to the same spot you were, because if everyone's now got the same information.

[00:31:43] Then the team with the most money is going to win again. Right. Because everybody has now the tool. I mean, it's a West Coast offense. If everybody runs a version of the West Coast. That's right. You're not special. But guess what? Now you need to find now you now you incorporate a deep threat. We hadn't considered that before. And you build you build on a new foundation. So, yeah. So, this is a movie that works for a little brief moment in time. And it ignores a lot of details.

[00:32:10] Like, for instance, in the 2000s, Boston won the World Series a number of times using kind of a hybrid analytics approach. In the 2000s, the San Francisco Giants won the World Series multiple times using an old school approach. Mm-hmm. Old school. So, Boston spent more money doing it. So, this movie tells a story about, like, you know, the nerds win.

[00:32:38] The mathematicians end up applying a new science to baseball and changes the game forever. Well, kind of. It changes the way that people think about baseball. I don't know if it actually translates to wins. Right. And that's the thing that this movie is trying to tell me. Like, if you throw out all those gut feelings, in the end, the numbers don't lie. The numbers are going to help you win.

[00:33:05] But at the end of the day, no. It's the money. The money. You spend more money, you win more World Series. Exactly. That's just kind of the way it works. Right. And it's like, I think, even further, the numbers will help you overachieve. For a brief amount of time. Right. I mean, you can be better than you're supposed to be, even with a low budget. But that doesn't mean you're good. And it doesn't mean it's sustainable.

[00:33:34] It just means that you have an approach. It's almost necessary, right? If you have a shoestring budget, you have to come up with a creative way to make it work if you want to even be remotely competitive. And in this case... Yeah, this movie only works if the rest of the 29 teams see more value in Johnny Damon than he really has. Right. So they're going to overpay for Johnny Damon.

[00:34:01] And then Jonah Hill comes in and he says, actually, you could buy five players for that amount of money. And in the aggregate, overachieve. But if every other major league team now knows that Johnny Damon should not be paid that amount of money, you don't have that advantage anymore. Exactly. Since we're on the baseball stuff, let me throw a few other problems I have with this movie.

[00:34:31] Let me just say, I love this movie so much. There's no way that Hatterberg should be at first base. There's just no way. Right. You have a DH. You should put Hatterberg at DH and teach David Justice first base because that's what you do with an aging outfielder. You put him at first base. And guess what? He's not going to be afraid of the ball and he can throw the ball. Right. Exactly. He knows how to throw a baseball.

[00:35:02] So that's ridiculous. It makes no sense at all. All right? Who's DH-ing in this situation? Because wasn't Giambi the DH at one point? Well, Giambi's gone at the beginning of the movie. Right. Well, and the timeline on those are a little funky, too. I mean, that's not exactly how it went down. Jermaine Dye wasn't a great, you know, so he was DH some of the time. Justice was DH some of the time. But, dude, come on.

[00:35:28] If you're telling me that one of your players cannot throw a baseball, then that's your DH. Right. Well, and also keep in mind, which is interesting about this movie, is that, like, the Mulder-Hudson, you know, the pitching staff of this, which was homegrown, was kind of a big deal. Not just a big deal. Maybe the best in baseball. Right.

[00:35:52] And so there's an element of their success that is heavily relied upon their drafting, scouting, and their farm system. Yeah. All of those old scouts in that room that get belittled, guess what? They put together, using the old school model, they put together the best pitching staff in baseball. And, oh, don't forget, there was a guy named Eric Chavez at third and Miguel Tejada at short, also homegrown.

[00:36:20] So they only focus on these, you know, sort of misfit toys that they get. But, I mean, part of it is they can stay under budget because these guys are young and they haven't had to break the bank on these guys yet. So there's that element, which is also interesting, right? I mean, you should maybe mention it because it's an important part of a team's success is having one of the best pitching staffs in the league and having a couple of, like, phenoms, you know, in skilled positions.

[00:36:49] I mean, it's... Yeah. Yeah. As a base... And here's the other thing about this movie is that I think that there's a number of things that kind of ruined baseball over the last 10 years. And this is definitely one of them. There is a value in having a homegrown rookie of the year phenomenon on your team like Carlos Pena.

[00:37:11] And even if he's not getting on base as well as the other dude, you've got to develop that guy because you have that guy under team control. Right. For the next six years. Moreover, your fans get to fall in love with him and you get to sell jerseys. He puts butts in the seats. It's... His value is so much greater than just the ability to get on base. Right.

[00:37:34] The last thing I'll say, baseball critique-wise, this movie really boils it down to on base percentage, which is fine. Analects is so much more than that. But it's a flawed logic because you've got a runner on first and second. If you're a runner on first and second and your guy hits a single, that's absolutely more valuable than the guy who gets a walk. If Hatterbird gets a walk in that situation, the guy that was on second base is now at third base.

[00:38:03] And you may leave that inning when the base is loaded. Whereas if Pena hits a single in that situation, you got yourself a run scored. And that's absolutely more valuable. So the guy who gets the hit should get paid more than the guy who gets the walk. Right? The trick here is that the guy who gets the single should not be paid ten times more than the guy who gets the walk. Right.

[00:38:28] And that's the part of this movie that they kind of don't really discuss. And it's fine. It's a perfect movie, even though the baseball parts of it are imperfect. Right. No, I agree. And it's like you don't – I think you do run the risk of losing some of this tonality that is effective if you get too much more into the weeds. Right.

[00:38:56] I think you have to get – you have to be just analytical enough to demonstrate sort of the opposing viewpoints. Right. So that even if you don't understand the technicality, the same way you probably don't even understand what the scouts are talking about if you're kind of a layperson coming in, you want to just know – you just need them to be illustrated that they're different. And that one is considered an affront to the old way of doing things.

[00:39:24] And that's how you can kind of – it becomes an underdog story in that regard. So there's underdogs, leading underdogs. That's what you're kind of rooting for. But it's – again, it's like the more you talk about it, the less it should work because of how little it spends on some of these underdogs. And it's like – and the way that they make Art Howe like kind of a villain. And you're like – I got to talk about Art Howe.

[00:39:51] But before I do that, I'm going to do something that I haven't done in one of these before. And I'm going to play the beginning of the trailer to this movie. There are rich teams and there are poor teams. Then there's 50 feet of crap. And then there's us. That's a dollar, man. What? Welcome to Oakland. I need more money. We're not New York. Fine players are the money that we do have. I like Perez. I've got an ugly girlfriend. Ugly girlfriend means no confidence.

[00:40:21] You guys are talking the same old nonsense. Like we're looking for Fabio. We got to think differently. Who's Fabio? So I think this – What a wacky movie. I think this is the best exposition movie ever. Because the trailer to this movie is all exposition. Like that's how they sold the movie. Like all of the best scenes are exposition scenes. That scene where he says, what's the problem?

[00:40:51] There's rich teams. There's poor teams. There's 50 feet of crap. Then there's us. That should be like a scene that you write in between two scenes that you care about. Because the next scene you need to kind of – you need the audience to kind of understand the concept. But what this movie does is it says, no, no, no. The exposition is where the action is. Yeah. Yeah, because you think – And I don't know why that works either. I don't know why it works either.

[00:41:20] The trailer suggests to you that you're going to have like this major league type scenarios where these guys are just like fumbling the ball around. And you're like, who are these guys? And these misfits and everything. And it's like, well, you'll see them a little. Right. Yeah. But not really. Yeah, so I think because of the shape of the story that they're telling, the exposition had to work.

[00:41:45] And what they did was, okay, not only is it going to work, these are going to be the best scenes of the film. Well, and this movie, I guess, was originally supposed to be – like I think Soderbergh was attached to it and it was going to be kind of documentary style. Because I think in his mind that's the only way you're going to be able to make a movie like this probably work. Yep. But in order to do it, you need to talk to the players. And so it's like you're kind of searching for the humanity.

[00:42:10] He was going to – it sounds like he was going to take an old school approach to a new school approach to baseball movie. And that's, I think, why it worked this way. Because the whole – like, I mean, it's great. Like, I mean, we talk about baseball as a metaphor. And there is that great scene where he shows him the player who doesn't realize he hit a home run. He's so focused on the thing.

[00:42:35] A fellow who's afraid to round first base, trips over first base, not knowing that the ball went 60 feet over the fence. Right. And so he – and his whole thing is that his worst nightmare has come into life. And he's consumed by this moment of fear, not realizing it. So he couldn't enjoy this great moment that he was a part of, that he actually, you know, created. And after he says, how can you not be romantic about baseball? He goes, oh, it's a metaphor.

[00:43:04] And I think what's really clever about that sequence is it's presented as if Jonah Hill is trying to explain to him, hey, I'm showing you this as a metaphor. But the way that it's worded suggests baseball is a metaphor, right? And I think that's how baseball movies tend to work. And I think that's just how baseball itself works. And I think that's why it's hard for, you know, knowing that baseball is kind of fading in terms of the big three and as far as ratings and interest. And it's been kind of doing that for a while.

[00:43:34] Is that baseball, I think, has always worked as a metaphor, right? And there's something beyond the sport itself that matters. Yeah, I think it's more than that. I think it for, I don't know, 80 years, it was sort of the civic religion of America. Sure. And so it was sort of the tradition. It would be like the thing that you could connect with your father over.

[00:44:02] It was a thing that, you know, men who have trouble forming relational bonds with other men could talk about baseball. It's mythology. That's what it is. And it's sort of its peak romanticism. It was not above the United States. It was, it was, it walked in line with it. You would lose major players to the draft.

[00:44:27] And so you would root for, now you're rooting for them overseas and coming back home safe, boys. Yeah, it was a mirror of America for so many years. It was like, it was always kind of like reflecting sort of best aspirations, but sort of the gritty reality of America. And sometime in the last 10 years, it was like, eh, who cares? It's kind of boring. Well, yeah. And it's, and it's, it's because there's, because it's not a lot of athletes.

[00:44:57] Baseball is not their priority. Like they're, they like in colleges or high school. It's like, yeah, it's baseball. And people are choosing, you know, oh, you could get drafted by, you know, this team and go through the minors. Like, or I can, you know, join the NBA or I can join the NFL and play right away and get better. You know, there's just different, there's different financial aspects to it and all that. And it's just, so it doesn't, it doesn't rate. So people don't watch. And so people don't watch, then people don't play.

[00:45:25] And if people don't play, then it sort of dies out and there's no relationship to it. So there's a lot of those aspects. So it's a very interesting ending to the movie or towards the end when he's like talking about, hey, how can you help but be romantic about baseball? When it's like, yeah, the whole movie is you basically shunning the romance of baseball. At least from a certain point of view, right? I mean, it's a, this isn't a romantic game. This is. Yeah, the only way we're going to beat the Yankees is if we forget that the pinstripes have metaphorical value.

[00:45:55] You know, we're going to beat the Yankees. We're going to be cold and calculating. We're going to set aside romance. We're going to be as meticulous as mathematicians. That's how we're going to win. And romance is, is, is dead. It's as dead as these dumb old scouts who are measuring your self-confidence by the way your girlfriend looks, you know? Yep. It's ridiculous. And yet at the end, I feel very romantic about baseball. Right?

[00:46:26] Well, and is, and do we feel that way because it doesn't work? Because the whole movie was like, like, yeah, well, is this movie end up being like pro romance about baseball? I think it does in the end. I think it does because, I mean, at the end, it really is about the people you're rooting for. Which is antithetical to what Billy Beans doing on the field, right? But he becomes that, right? I mean, he stays.

[00:46:52] Because if they were able to sign Giambi, dude, if they were able to sign Damon in Giambi, they would have filled that park. They would have filled that park for the next 10 years. And Steve Schott would have had even more money in his pocket. Exactly. Yeah. Right? It's just wrongheaded because the reason why we love baseball is we love these characters. We love the stories.

[00:47:18] But the analytics model is, look, we might have this player for three years and then he's gone. And we'll plug in some other player you've never heard of. And you just don't get invested in these people anymore. So the reason we love baseball is the same reason we love this movie. We are so invested in Brad Pitt's character and his relationship with his daughter, his relationship with Jonah Hill. We want the Oakland A's to win. Not because we love the Oakland A's, but because we love these characters.

[00:47:49] So it is. It's romantic. And that became actually, you know, sort of, you know, life imitated art because Billy Beans was the only thing that was constant about the gays for so long. It was. Yeah. Because, you know, you couldn't fall in love with, you know, with any of these guys. I mean, like they were constantly building up these players and losing them. They didn't have to trade them.

[00:48:16] But you and I grew up in the B area and we both knew that more people hated Billy Beans than loved him. Sure. And really, people didn't start appreciating Billy Beans until this movie came out, which was 10 years after the fact. Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't hurt that Brad Pitt is playing you on screen. For sure. Is Brad Pitt our most prolific thumb actor?

[00:48:47] I used to think it was his hands. Like, he's always making interesting choices with his hands. But after watching this movie a number of times, and really a lot of his movies, like, just go back and watch his thumbs. He does the weirdest things with his thumbs. They end up, like, right on his face. Like, what does he do? Like, even the way he, like, squirts, like, syrup onto the ice cream bowl. Watch his thumbs. They're unlike any thumbs that are on the big screen.

[00:49:19] Are you ready for my art house story? Yeah. Let's bring it. All right. So, I'm sort of probably in third grade. And we're at Candlestick Park preseason game. Giants are playing the A's. And Jeff and I are down by the dugout trying to get our baseball signed by a real-life big league player. No big league players to sign. Anywhere around. But Art Howe is kind of, like, standing there.

[00:49:48] He's got the same expression that Philip Seymour Hoffman has in this film. He's just unimpressed. It's like he hasn't had a bell movement in a few days. And Jeff runs up to him and says, Will you sign my ball? And he, like, turns around. And when he turns around, Art Howe sees a girl he went to high school with. And he's like, Hey, Stephanie! I don't remember her name. But he's like, I can't believe, you know, how long has it been?

[00:50:17] So, he starts chatting it up. He, like, his face lights up. It's like he's gregarious. He's so happy to see this girl he hadn't seen since high school. Jeff decides to start shouting at Art Howe. That's about right. Sign my ball! Sign my ball! Sign my ball! And he pisses off Art Howe.

[00:50:37] So, Art Howe, like, has to stop this conversation with his high school friend and turn to this annoying little creature. And say, You're being very rude. I'm trying to have a conversation here. And so, then what Jeff does is he takes his ball. He turns around. And as he's walking away, he says very loudly, It's okay. It's just the stupid manager.

[00:51:07] And Art Howe then, like, looks at him, looks at me, and looks at the woman who is his high school buddy. And I've just felt just total shame. I felt like, I know this isn't my fault, but I'm with this guy, so I guess it's kind of my fault. Guilt by association. That was kind of the classic with Jeff. I felt like Art Howe had just sent me down to the minors. That's how I felt in that moment.

[00:51:35] So, Philip Seymour Hoppin, one of our greatest actors, gets to be in this movie for, like, what, five minutes? Something like that. And it's great. Like, I was thinking about Philip Seymour Hoppin, because here he is in this. And again, it sounds like Art Howe is not a fan of how he was portrayed in this movie. I don't doubt it. Yeah. And in terms of film and in terms of, you know, like, forget all the other, like, what's real, what's not.

[00:52:04] He does, Philip Seymour Hoppin shows, like, how good of an actor he can be in just a small role and how important he can make a scene by doing so little, right? And it's like, I was just thinking, I'm like, man, outside of Twister, I think Philip Seymour Hoppin makes everything better. Philip Seymour Hoppin, you can just tell, like, this guy isn't just pissed. He's pissed, like, eight layers down. Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:52:33] And he's so pissed that he's just barely holding it together. But he's not going to explode. He's not a volcano. No, he's not going to, you know, everything is under the surface with this guy. And he's just, he's perfect. He's perfect. I was reading something about Art Howe saying he didn't like the way he was depicted. And the further he was saying is, like, it's interesting to work with an organization for X amount of years and then to find out later what your boss thought it was.

[00:53:01] And kind of playing or taking the movie and laying it at the feet of Billy Bean, you know. And, you know, I don't know how, I mean, I don't, you know, know exactly how Billy Bean, how much influence he had over the making of the film or the dramatization of it, right? So, I mean, it's like they might have, like, hey, they took artistic license. I mean, they used your real name. So I know that's kind of a drag. And they kind of made you look like a curmudgeon.

[00:53:30] But at the same time, it's like it sounded like their relationship was, I think, was Scott Hatterberg called it as turbulent. And I'm sure there was a perception on both directions, right? So it's like just, but there's, but Art Howe, there's not a book written about you. So you don't get to get the last word. Yeah. Look, I've heard Art Howe interviewed, I don't know, 10 times in my life. Every interview made me think, oh, he's kind of a jerk.

[00:54:01] He's kind of a jerk. But I don't doubt that Billy Bean is also a jerk. True. Right. And so then the question is, who are you rooting for in this turbulent relationship? I also don't doubt that they probably had a fairly functional relationship for many years. Right. You know, it could be that you argue a lot with someone. And at the end of the day, you figure out how to make it work.

[00:54:26] And so maybe they just don't, you know, this particular movie is a particular slice of time. And when Art Howe's contract is up and he wants a new contract. So the relationship is a little bit more fraught than it was in previous years.

[00:55:12] Right. Because it's like, oh, it's all right. You know, that's not what this is about. You know, but it gives you, you have to have somebody to kind of, you have to have a foil. Right. And the foil can't just, because I mean, if you've gotten rid of the scouts in the old school way, then you've lost your foil. Right. So your foil has to always be in the building. And in order for that to work, I mean, really the foil is old school baseball mentality. And so you just have to have some representative of that. And it has to be antagonistic. Okay.

[00:55:41] We want to talk a little bit about Sorkin and then we can do our categories. I'm going to play one more clip for you. Heads up. What was that? Sorry. I don't know. What the hell was that? You knucklehead. Did Henry make you a good offer at least?

[00:56:11] Doesn't matter. What was it? Doesn't matter. What was it? Doesn't matter. What was it? That makes you the highest paid GM in the history of sports. You know, I made one decision in my life based on money. And I swore I would never do it again.

[00:56:41] You're not doing it for the money. No? No. You're doing it for what the money says. And it says what it says to any player that makes big money. That they're worth it. So I'm a big fan of Aaron Sorkin. He's maybe the most sentimental writer that I know. Hmm.

[00:57:08] So it's one of the trickiest things to pull off, I think. To write a sentimental movie and write it well enough so that you are, that you feel emotionally invested, even though you're being emotionally manipulated at the same time. Mm-hmm. The other thing that Sorkin does, and I think he might do this better than anyone else, is

[00:57:34] he will create a world that can only be inhabited by really, really smart people. And it's something that almost every movie writer fails at. Hmm. Because most movies, like, okay, this guy's a brain surgeon, or this guy's a genius, or this guy's a Nobel laureate, or whoever. You know, you can just create the world.

[00:58:00] But at the end of the day, the dialogue's written by a Hollywood screenwriter, right? Right. As much as they consulted, that person's not a genius. Right. What Sorkin does really well is he writes people who are intelligent. But he'll do it in such a way that doesn't leave the audience behind. So I think he does this in a few good films. I think he does this in this. I think he did that in The West Wing.

[00:58:31] There's a lot of movies that he has done this for. I don't know if you ever saw The Chicago 7 on Netflix. Mm-mm. No. It's a great Sorkin film. Same thing. Historical event. So he's an interesting character in that he writes, he'll create a world that can only be inhabited by really, really smart people,

[00:58:53] and yet boil it down to something very basic, like this girl loves her dad, or that dad loves his daughter. And he, I don't know, he's a very unique writer to my mind. Well, and I liked how the relationship between Brad Pitt and his daughter was kind of distilled for us, right?

[00:59:20] So we didn't, I kind of expected, oh, she's not here right now. Like, oh, is this going to be one of these, he's going to try to win his daughter over, but it's hard, and she's going through a phase. And then that's going to be a subplot is that, you know, somehow his success for the franchise will also, like, coincide with success with his daughter's relationship.

[00:59:46] And I was a little bit less enthusiastic about what the daughter might bring. And they don't do that. No, what the daughter does in this film is she's the only one that really understands him. And so you kind of flip the father-daughter dynamic in that way. Right.

[01:00:06] And so, yeah, so it's, and it's, and it serves, like you said, it's just, just enough of everything to, to, to give you the sense that this relationship is going to be key throughout all the decisions he makes, you know, professionally. Right. I mean, like when he's at, when he's at work with his uptown problems, you know, that's his uptown problems, but, but they do have impact on the potential. Like, I mean, if he loses, like I said, if he loses his job, he has to go somewhere else. And chances are he's not staying in California.

[01:00:34] If he does really well at his job, now he has the option to move all the way to the other side of, of the country. And, and he can, you know, have a better chance at achieving what you would assume his goals are, but he doesn't and he stays. And so then that brings us the, you know, kind of where we're at with his decision is why is it, are we to, are we to believe that he stays in Oakland?

[01:01:02] Because of his daughter? Because he, he was in a position where he could have probably just still stayed in California and maybe move people around, you know? I mean, if, if he became sort of a general manager, free agent, there would have been a lot of teams that would have been interested in, in his services.

[01:01:26] Right. I mean, I guess the story that the movie is telling is that it's better to stay in Oakland and be a loser and be a father like that. But ultimately that is the right life choice. Rather than to be successful in Boston and, you know, see your daughter, you know, even half of the amount of time that you used to.

[01:01:53] Right. And if it's, if the question is, because he, because he does mention sort of like, what is the goal? Well, he's like, he's a win the last game of the series. A lot of stuff. It's like, well, you put yourself in a, in a, in less of a position to do that. So if your professional goals are one thing, you didn't, you didn't put yourself in the best position for that. So it adds, it adds an element to kind of somewhat of the mystery of this character and his motivations. Well, I mean, I mean, look at, look at the reality of the situation.

[01:02:23] This was in 2001, right? The daughter was 12. That daughter grew up and he stayed in Oakland, right? Yeah. Still. And he's going to have what? I'm assuming going to Vegas. He's going to be probably going to stay in his house in Oakland and commute to Sacramento or whatever. Right. No, your kids are only kids for a certain amount of years. And then you could move to Boston if you want to, but he just stayed in Oakland the whole time.

[01:02:52] Steve, is there a tweak that you would have made to this movie to improve it? I don't know to improve it, but I, I, after reading about the Dimitri Martin thing, I was like, kind of want to know. Kind of want to see it. Yeah, me too. Just because I really do like Dimitri Martin. And I do think that there could be a lot of fun with a character that's kind of nerdy and maybe a little bit, you know, has that engineering kind of mindset, you know?

[01:03:20] Because I think Jonah Hill was, was certainly likable. I would have probably liked that character to be maybe less likable because that strikes me as maybe more authentic for somebody who's, who's in that way. Like maybe somebody who's like, you could have even still played up that role too, where they're just, they don't deal with people at all. Not because they're young and naive, but because they just don't understand how people work.

[01:03:45] And you could have had a Billy Bean relationship there that was like trying to, trying to humanize them a little bit, you know, a little bit more so as opposed to just, not just experientially, but just in terms of interacting with people. So I think that could have been a, that could have been a fun way to take a look at it. And again, I don't know that it would have made the movie better or worse. I just think it would, it just piqued my curiosity for interest. I think there's a lot of baseball stuff in this movie that they just fundamentally got wrong.

[01:04:11] But I think that, I don't know if I would change it because I feel like the more you consult baseball experts, the less of a storage shape this takes. You know, all of the things that I mentioned earlier about why the baseball is kind of a flawed philosophy here.

[01:04:32] But I mean, even like simple facts, like the longest regular season streak in baseball history is the 1916 New York Giants. The reason why the streak works in this film is it's the American League streak, right? Right. So there's stuff like that's like, yeah, like I'd like to get the stats right. I'd like to know these things. I want to be able to trust that my storytellers know what they're talking about.

[01:05:02] But you start, you start adding those little, you know, baseball factoids and you start to ruin the movie. Yeah, that's true. Anyway, is there a trope, a cliche or a device that you enjoyed in this movie? There's a lot. But I happen to, I love a locker room tirade. I was going to say the same thing.

[01:05:26] I love, I love when, when, you know, people like if somebody's upset that someone's not upset enough about a loss, like there's something so like it always works for me. I always get a kick out of how that goes down. I love to expose the fact, you know, these are big macho men. You know, they're professionals. You know, they're, they go out on the field and they're, they're icons.

[01:05:52] I think in the locker room, they're kind of just these boyish man children. Yeah, yeah. And if you just shot a little bit and throw a bat across the locker room, they're going to cower. Right? Yeah. I love that part of it. I love that part of it. Steve, is this movie better, worse, or on par with a Ron Howard film? Because, like, there's a lot about this movie that should, should be properly Howard, right? Like on paper.

[01:06:22] Howard would, I think Howard would be like the first on my list if I wanted this movie to be made. Exactly. And then maybe that's why I kind of held off watching it because I'm like, that is looking like a properly Howard film. It looks, it looks like a very Ron Howard film. Right. And I'm like, if I want to watch this, I'll just watch Apollo 13 and it's, it's, it's Moneyball in Space. Somehow this film's sum is greater than its parts. Absolutely. Yeah.

[01:06:51] I mean, I put it at probably a Howard plus, I'm going to say four. Yeah. Cause I really, cause, cause it, and, and that might not even be high enough. And again, it's just because everything about it should be like, should be just formula, should be maybe playing up the daughter thing more or something. And I'm like, the way I feel at a movie that should not make me even feel is bananas to me. This is what we're talking about when we talk about movie magic.

[01:07:19] And it doesn't mean that there's, you know, effects that are going to blow your mind. It's just, this is what this in a way that, that baseball is thought of as romantic kind of Hollywood and cinema can be thought of that way. And the way that it transports you and it takes you and it makes you feel something for somebody or something that seems like you shouldn't. And it, and this is, this feels like oddly old school filmmaking. So it's like, it kind of, it does serve as a metaphor for its own metaphor. So that's right. And I like that.

[01:07:48] I'm going to say Howard plus six and on rewatch, cause I've watched this movie a lot on the rewatch. It's kind of amazing how much actual footage they use from baseball games in this film. Like you see the actual Scott Hatterberg rounding the bases in this film. Right. You also see Chris Pratt rounding the bases in this film and it is put together so seamlessly that you're not taken out of it.

[01:08:18] Like it wasn't until like the sixth time I've watched it. Like, wait a second. That's, that's actually Chris Hatterberg. But the movie is shot in such a way that in my mind, it's Chris Pratt the whole time. Same thing with Mikel Dejada's, you know, there's so many parts of this movie. That feel like a documentary. And yet I don't feel like I'm swapping genres.

[01:08:44] I don't feel like I'm never taken out by that kind of split. And that in and of itself is kind of remarkable. Yeah. It's like if you were watching American Gangster and every now and again, it wasn't Russell Crowe. It was like the actual police officer. You're like, wait a second. What are they doing to me here? I mean, in the way that, that the penguin suit bothers you, there's a lot of things in this that should be bothering you. That's right. That's exactly it. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

[01:09:14] Is there a half the battle one to grow on moment in this movie? Yeah. Take the money. Don't, don't be as miserable as Brad Pitt. Yeah. Maybe you are a loser, dad. I was going to say, uh, when you get the answer you want, hang up. I like that. I like that. What a great scene. Yeah. There are a lot. That's the thing is there are a lot of really fun scenes in there.

[01:09:42] And again, I think it, it's, it is helped by, uh, you know, these pretend GMs and like, oh, and not, not even just the fantasy. Uh, the thing I, I, I shouldn't, uh, alienate the, the gamer side of this. Right. I mean, there's a lot of people that, a lot of, that love playing, you know, Madden and these other things because they build teams and there are some times that they just play coach, you know, like they don't actually play the game. You know, they're just calling the plays like it.

[01:10:06] So there is something like there's access in a way that like this movie, I don't think would have worked, you know, uh, you know, 15 years ago. You know, I mean, just cause I think it would have been too abstract that people are too removed from that kind of notion. So, or like 15 years prior, I should say. Really like it. Really like this movie quite a bit. Yeah. I was, I wasn't even offended by Giuliani in the stands.

[01:11:54] Hey everyone. David here. The wait is over. Severance is back. The lore hounds are teaming up with properly Howard to bring you comprehensive coverage of season two. Join John, Anthony, Steve, and myself each week as we dive into this amazing show. Here's what you need to know. We've set up a dedicated feed for our severance coverage to join us.

[01:12:19] Just search for severance lore hounds in your podcast player, or click the feed link in our link tree. You'll find that in the show notes below. If you're already a Patreon or Supercast subscriber, don't worry. You'll get the ad-free versions automatically in your regular feed. Plus, exclusive access to our upcoming bonus episodes that we'll be announcing soon. The early reviews are incredible.

[01:12:45] Apple's marketing push is huge, and we cannot wait to explore this season with you. And unlike the music dance experience, you don't need Mr. Milchick's permission to join us. Don't forget, you can find the feed link in our link tree in the show notes, or just search Severance Lore Hounds wherever you get your podcasts. Join us for what's shaping up to be an incredible season. Thank you. Thank you.