The Wheel of Time - S03E02-03 - A Question of Crimson & Seeds of Shadow

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[00:02:05] The Wheel of Time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. In one podcast, called The Lorehounds by Some, a weekly recap with tons of analysis, two Wheel of Time superfans will lead you through a world of powerful magic, tricky prophecies, and cutthroat politics. Join me, John, and my co-host Alicia for weekly coverage of Season 3 by searching your podcast app for The Lorehounds.

[00:02:35] It's time to roll the dice. Welcome to The Lorehounds, where the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. I'm Alicia.

[00:03:03] And I'm John. And this is our breakdown of Episodes 2 and 3 of Season 3 of The Wheel of Time, A Question of Crimson End, Seeds of Shadow. So we already talked about Episode 1 separately, and you can find that in the feed before this. Not to mention a book spoilery trailer breakdown before that. And subscribers and Season Pass holders also get extra lore casts coming your way this week. There's going to be two coming your way this week.

[00:03:31] One all about the Ajahs, which you'll get to sample on the public feed as well. And then a slightly longer one just for subscribers about the geography of Third Age. Those were fun to record. Yeah. And by the way, I have uploaded all of our historical coverage from Season 2 onto the Season Pass. So Season Pass, it's $10. You'll get all our coverage ad-free for just this season of Wheel of Time and last season. And then you get the show guide, which I've been touching up with Nancy today too.

[00:03:59] And we'll be able to launch that the day that this episode comes out. So those should be in the show notes for subscribers. And then for the public, there's a link for the Season Pass. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. So this episode, we are doing two together just because of the way it was dropped. I know a bunch of you watched at the fan event online, the first episode. And then, yeah, these two just went together. So spoilers, obviously, through Episode 3 of Season 3 and the equivalent parts of the book.

[00:04:27] But we will not spoil any future book spoilers. We have a special White Tower segment at the very end after the outro music. So stick around for that if you like spoilers or if you've read the books. And Lorecast, by the way, do not have any future spoilers also. Just general lore. Yeah, I know you didn't make it to the fan event, but I have to say that was a lot of fun.

[00:04:53] My comment from the beginning of it, which sets the tone of this episode perfectly, was, Welcome to the Mother Dome. That's so funny. Why the Mother Dome, though? Because they're all mother and they're fighting each other like the Thunder Dome. Oh, okay. I understand that now. That's pretty funny.

[00:05:11] And I have to say, Rafe Judkins, the showrunner, was in the chat as well and dropping some behind-the-scenes knowledge about, like, for instance, when Lanfear walks through the street with that striped cape. Apparently, that was a scene added by the director because he was like, this garment deserves its own entrance. And it actually does create some nice extra tension between her and Moraine. That's, that's, uh, I like that. I like that.

[00:05:40] I love when people who didn't write it or are showrunners with it end up adding something to it. I was just listening to an interview with, um, I can't remember his name, but the guy, Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter, who's also in The White Lotus now. Right. Jason Isaac. Jason Isaac, thank you. And he was talking about how he sort of, like, came up with a bunch of ideas for how Lucius should look instead of, like, they wanted him to have short hair. No. Oh. And not have the cane. Mm. And he's like, no, I need a cane with my wand.

[00:06:08] I need long blonde hair because Lucius would want to look like a wizard, not like a muggle. Mm-hmm. And I need, like, expensive fabric on me. Yes. Ah. And, uh, he was right. He was right. He made that character. And I feel like that's, that's coming in here, too, the way you're talking about it. Yeah. No, I know. When a room, when a show is given room to, and I think that's one of the things, like, I know, uh, you and I are both really blown away by the third season so far.

[00:06:33] And I think that's one of the, one of the reasons why it's the strongest is because apparently Rafe Jenkins says he was given a bit more room. Like, he's built some more trust with the studios. And, uh, they're, you know, uh, giving all of the creatives a bit more input and leeway to kind of make this the best possible, uh, story. And also another thing I noticed is it seems like the actors often have a lot of input on their characters, too. That's good.

[00:07:02] I feel like the actors feel a lot more comfortable in their skin this season. Like, it took a, and I think that that's true of a lot of shows is just that, like, it takes a minute for the actors to sort of settle into who the characters are. Hmm. And I feel like Rand feels a lot more natural this season than he had in past seasons. Also, he was plucked up right out of drama school, apparently. So. Oh. Yeah. In the Ronstadt? The Ronstadt.

[00:07:29] I don't know what they, I, I, I don't go to the Netherlands. It's where I live. They don't allow me there. We're basically neighbors, me and Josia. Yeah. You are. That's right. That's right. You were roommates in college. Uh, no, I was actually roommates with Ivanka Trump. No. I did go to school with her. So, okay, episodes two and three. Spoilers already underway. What is your hot take on these two episodes?

[00:07:59] My hot take is that I can't remember what's in which episode, but I love them both. Like, I, I just could not tell you what's in which episode because I, I watched them together. We're talking about them together. Um, I, I think the season is getting better. Every episode they have introduced the Aiel Waste really interestingly. I'm, I'm not super into, um, the, the wise ones just yet.

[00:08:23] Like, I just haven't seen enough of them, but I, I'm hoping that that is just my caution going into that. Cause I, I'm always so nervous for them to mess up the Aiel. Cause I feel like that's such a core part of the story and a unique part of Jordan's world. But I mean, oh, I love that the way we're splitting things up. I think the Fahil casting is perfect. Yeah. I, I think that everything happening so far is just a lot of really good setup. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:08:53] I, I ended up liking episode two even better than episode one. Like, I think episode one was phenomenal, but episode two, you know, because it was, uh, Marilyn always talks about these moments of respite. And this was, it gave a lot of breathing room to a lot of different characters. Um, it made me laugh a lot, actually, even on a rewatch, it made me laugh more than usual. Yeah. That was good humor. That was good humor. And that's so important. Like Marilyn was saying, right. She was like, I need those moments of respite. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:22] And I, and I agree. Like that, that was one of my criticisms of season one, especially. And I think they improved it in season two and it's even better now. And, uh, yeah, they're, they're doing a really good job of being like, why are these people friends? Right. You know, like we need to, we need to know why they like each other a little bit. Yeah. And, and the cast, um, they're all quite good. They, they have good comedic timing. I mean, Matt is killing it for me. Donal Finn is Matt as Matt. He's just nailing it for me this season. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[00:09:51] Even though I know what scene you're going to complain about, which actually that didn't bother me as much as some other things. It was still stupid, but it didn't bother me as much as, as, you know, some other complaints that I've made. Okay. I, and it's not the stick fight. If anyone's wondering, I'm not going to complain. No, that was good. That was very good. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's get into the, it was a kind of stick fight. Well, yeah. I mean, same as the books. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Um, let's get into the episode itself.

[00:10:21] So we're talking about two episodes. We're going to be talking about them all through each other. And the two episodes are episode two is a question of crimson, which was written by Kate McKenna, who's was also credited for, um, season seven of episode one and also season, uh, two episode two. And the director was Kiarin Donnelly, who also directed the last episode and the last two episodes of season one is also going to direct the last two episodes of this season.

[00:10:50] Um, this one was 59 minutes long episode three seeds of shadow written by Beverly Okio, who was previously known for the show them and directed by Thomas Nopper. Who's also directing the next episode and, uh, did episodes one and two of season two. And that one was an hour and two minutes long. So I like all these episodes are an hour. Yeah. They're, they feel complete in a way, in a way that it's hard to do when it's shorter.

[00:11:20] Right. Right. Um, so yeah, as I said, we're going to talk about one story arc at a time. That means we're going to be talking about the two episodes through each other. So we're not going to try to differentiate the two episodes. Uh, make sure you have seen both. Um, and first we have to start with that first cold, cold open. Camelyn finally is on the board.

[00:11:42] We get, um, a flashback to 20 years ago in Camelyn, the capital city of the queendom of Andor where more gays then pregnant with daughter heir Elaine has just won a war of succession. And she makes the leaders of the houses who opposed her swear their loyalty and then tells them all is forgiven while having their throats slit. So yeah, Olivia Williams, Shora Agdashlu. What did you think of this whole introduction to the Camelyn ladies? Fantastic.

[00:12:12] I mean, there's, there's some implied, uh, I want to say not cruelty, but like ruthlessness of more gays in the books. We never really see it. Here we are. Yeah. It's like when she was a young woman, she was no mercy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote down here. She was an even better bitch in the show than the books. Yeah. I mean, I do think that's good. I don't think they gave her a lot of agency and a lot of points in the books.

[00:12:42] Like we kept hearing that she was this person with a lot of agency and a lot of like really strong, a really strong personality when then we wouldn't see it. Yeah. Yeah. But we do also find out that, um, Elida's been by her side this whole time guiding her too. So there's a lot of Elida in these actions as well, I would say. Yeah. And that's, that's from the book too. There's this whole there.

[00:13:03] I actually recently, I think it's in the beginning of book four, actually in the beginning of book four and the prologue, they, uh, they, they have Elida saying like, oh, she planned this her whole time. When she saw more gaze rising, she attached herself to her. And, uh, which I, I have always read Elida as being younger in the books, uh, as being a little bit more upstart because she was attaching herself and she was like kind of newer to more gaze.

[00:13:28] Um, here, I mean, like you're, you're looking at Elida in, and we talked about this on one of the lore casts that we've already recorded because we've recorded things in reverse. But, you know, I, I think this, I said, I has to be like 300 years old minimum. Um, I mean, I think maybe that's on the older side for I said, I, because reasons.

[00:13:47] Um, but yeah, I would say at least 200, but, uh, I think in the books, all we know for certain is she was, she wasn't not an older, older sister, but she was a full sister in the tower. When, when, when rain and Swan were accepted because she was, when Maureen was talking about in season one about there's a sister who basically like tormented her. I think we can say she was talking about Elida, at least in the book she is. Yeah.

[00:14:14] And, and I always read that as being like, she's one of the college kids bullying a high school kid. You know what I mean? Like not like one generation above. Oh, I read it. Okay. I read it as like a grown woman who should know better. Okay. Okay. I think, I think that's, that's just the difference of interpretation. Clearly we're getting more your interpretation here. Well, yeah. I mean, but this is also, she's even older, but I have, I have questions about, for instance, her bracelet.

[00:14:42] What if, well, anyway, we'll save that for the end. Okay. Okay. But one thing that we have to note is one of the people who got their throat slit was essentially a child. Yeah. And again, like there is moral complexity in this world. Sorry, Marilyn. You're not going to like the child getting hurt. And I don't like it either. You know, I'm, I'm a parent. I don't like watching kids get hurt. But I do think that that whole scene did a really good job laying the foundation for more gays and what she's willing to do to maintain power. Yeah.

[00:15:12] Yeah. I think that that was a brilliant introduction to her. And, um, all those houses that were mentioned, there were three houses mentioned Byron, who is the young woman on shower and care. And they are all from the books, but of course there are even more houses in the books. It makes sense. They are, you know, uh, condensing them.

[00:15:32] And the prior queen that she talks about was again, Mordrelyn Manteer, who died without an heir, which is why it's so important that Morgaze had a daughter. Um, because this is a queendom. They, it goes. Yeah. Mother to daughter. You can only inherit it as, as a queen. You cannot inherit it in the male line. Right.

[00:15:54] And that's why we saw at the beginning, I, I didn't notice this until the next watch, but they did have Linny, who is like the nurse maid in, in the books. She was there and, uh, there were two young, there was a young boy and a baby. So the two brothers are indeed still older than Elaine. Yeah. But how do you think she knew it was a girl like magic or just hope when she was pregnant with her? All right. I, I, it was vibe check, you know, who knows? She's like, yeah, my belly's vibing.

[00:16:23] Can there be like a one power sonogram? Is it, is it a side, our gram? Is it something the yellow eyes I can do? Yeah, exactly. It's a side, our gram. Hmm. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, I, I love seeing, like, I, I know we're not going to get the depth and complex, complexity of the books that we get on the political side here, just like we were talking about with the Ajahs in that episode. But, um, I just love all of the different levels of politics in the wheel of time story.

[00:16:53] So, you know, within an Aja, within the tower, within a nation, between nations, between continents. Between the tower and a nation, as we say. Right. Yeah. Well, the tower is in a lot of ways a nation of its own. Yeah. It's like a nation island kind of, like a city state. It's very Greek, right? It's, it's like a city state. Yeah. And, and how about everything that Morgays was wearing? It was great. I mean, it, it felt very, um, off with their heads. You know? Yeah.

[00:17:23] Very queen of hearts. Yeah. Yeah. But we should say that the, and or the throne there is called the lion throne and the crown is called the rose crown. So you'll notice, I noticed, especially roses worked into all of her, uh, garments and also her prince consort. We'll talk about in a minute. Yeah. Yeah. And boy, there, there's some interesting implications with a lot of stuff she said. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's a character I thought was written out that is certainly not written out now.

[00:17:54] Wait, which one? Gareth Brin. Oh, right. I kind of assumed that that meant that he was written out. No, I don't think so. I think we just got like a mention. I don't mean, I don't know if he's going to show up. I'm saying, but maybe. I see what you're saying. Let's, let's get to that scene and then we'll debate this. Okay. Okay. Okay. But yeah, Alayda, Alayda was perfect. Um, the way she rolled her eyes as the throats were being slit, like, God damn. Yeah.

[00:18:23] But, but also she didn't like raise a stink about it. Right. She just goes. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Exactly. Business as usual. Hmm. Um, but yeah, no father in sight. So we should just point that out. No mention of the father of any of these three children. Mm hmm. Uh, and a lot of the plot points that would have taken place in Camelon and the books have been transported to Tarvalon and other places.

[00:18:52] So I don't know how much came, maybe we would get more Camelon next season, but I think this is it for Camelon this season. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, we didn't get Rand falling into the, falling into the garden onto Elaine. Oh no, we're not getting, no, I knew that was not going to happen. It's cute. It's cute. But it's a bit more innocent. It's a cute scene of the books. Yeah. It's a meet cute. Mm hmm. But they, they are far beyond that phase of innocence. That's right. That's right. All right.

[00:19:19] So jumping to the present, Morghese has unexpectedly shown up at the tower with her entire entourage, including her advisor, Aleda Sedai of the Red Aja. And Elaine's brothers, Galad and Gawain, and the so-called Prince Consort, Gabriel, revealed in episode three to actually be Robin, one of the Forsaken, who is placing everyone he meets under a weave of compulsion to accept him as a member of the Camelon royal family. Which I completely missed, by the way. You may.

[00:19:47] I said this in our lore cast. I completely, that went completely over my head. I thought they were just changing the writing so that he was a long time consort of Morghese. Yeah. I mean, I thought that they were, in episode two, they were playing that rather coy with just the way when he showed up and they were, like we saw it with Leanne and we saw it with Elaine when they first met him, they were like, oh, of course, Gabriel.

[00:20:17] Oh, gosh, yes. We drink like fish together, you know. But that's like, it's such a sophisticated weave to be able to have them have memories. Like you see the way, contrast that with Naomi trying to, you know, do compulsion. She can't just say forget today. She has to say forget a lot. Right. She doesn't have the finesse at all. Right. Yeah. Go on. I'm sorry to interrupt. The Forsaken, man. The Forsaken.

[00:20:43] So at the tower, Morghese confronts Swan as the Amalind seat and the rest of the Aes Sedai about her daughter's kidnapping. And Swan tells Morghese privately that this was the work of a member of the Black Aja, making Morghese suspicious that the problem must be much bigger than mother is willing to admit. Dum, dum, dum. So I told you when I was watching that I thought that I wanted to turn the eye rolls between these women into a drinking game.

[00:21:12] I did love the way that they, you know, they privately have this whole thing like, you know what we have to do in public? Like, let's not, you know, you can't call me Swan. Right. You know, we'll do our game in public and then we'll have a little conversation on the side. Yeah. Yeah. And then in public, Swan actually makes Morghese wait outside the doors to the hall as a show of power. Yeah. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. And just to point out for anyone who missed it, Morghese does have one of those empty Great

[00:21:41] Serpent Rings because she was also educated at the tower. But she implies... So they did say that Elaine does quickly go through the archways off screen the same way we saw Egwene and Nynaeve do it. But they're just like, yeah, anyway, fast forward, you understand. But do you get the idea that Morghese did not and Morghese just got an honorary ring because she just isn't powerful enough for that? That's a good question.

[00:22:07] I think in the books, it's definite she did not do the testing. Mm-hmm. But in the show, I think she did do the testing. Part of it is you don't need to channel for that, right? You just have to kind of be strong with character. Yeah. And I think that's fine. Like, I think I could believe that she did that even with not much power. But just the way she said to Elaine, like, I want you to have your honorary ring. Like, that was just the way it was done.

[00:22:36] Yeah, I think honorary in the sense that they have no expectation of following the path to Aes Sedai. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. And we do get a casual mention, by the way, in one of these episodes that Aleda wanted to be Amarlin, but Swan got the job. So, reek! That's right. Awkward! And that's a thing, historically, that the Red Aja, the most famous Red Aja, Amarlin of all time, was, like, deposed. And it was a whole bad thing.

[00:23:05] And people have been wary about putting the Red Aja in charge since. Yeah. I mean, they're so likable. So, I don't get it. I know, right? Exactly. Like, they don't make friends with anybody. So, they're like, why are we so politically bad? Yeah. Like, why don't people like us when we yell at them? Yeah. But, yeah, I also love Aleda's costumes, by the way. Sharon Gillum's like, I fucking dare you not to nominate me for an Emmy this year. Like, I swear to God there are no costumes that are better anywhere on television or film.

[00:23:36] So, it's going to be Wicked. I mean, Wicked is awesome. They don't go ahead and win. They're different for a different media. See, this is how far removed I am from the awards season. In my head, I'm like, well, they go up next to each other. I mean, Wicked's costumes are phenomenal, but I think these are even better. All right. Stark words. I said what I said. I said what I said. But Paul tells it well from Wicked's also brilliant. Anyway.

[00:24:03] So, yeah, we'll talk about The Forsaken overall in a moment. But they, I said, I thought they played it well with Gabriel in terms of the way you would miss often that, you know, people pause before acknowledging him. And he was just so, he, overall, he's so warm, which is an interesting thing from Forsaken. And I really like that. What did you think of Gabriel?

[00:24:32] I, again, I agree. He was very charming to everyone. And that feels very true to Robin, right? He wants to be in power. He wants to be liked. It's something I think in the books they say is, like, he can't turn his back on, like, an opportunity for, like, praise. Like, he's addicted to it. In a way that the other Forsaken can be in the shadow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:01] So, this was the perfect one for him where he gets to pretend that he and a queen have been madly in love for a decade. So. He loves it. Extra benefits. Yeah. And everyone loves him. And he's just, like, this stand-up guy. He's not a stepdad. He's a dad who stepped up. Except, except Elaine says to him, all you and I do at home is drink like a fish. Which obviously never happens because she's just met him now for the first time. He's only been out for, like, a month.

[00:25:30] But it does suggest to me the fact that he put that thought in her head. Well, first of all, yeah, she does drink. Obviously, she makes stuff. She makes her ciders. But it seems like, you know, he just wants to keep them drunk. Like, maybe not literally, but just keep them drunk on the warmth from him and distracted so he can do what he wants. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. Drunk on his personality. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:58] And he tells Elaine that her mother is facing challenges at home from the people in the military. And that she, this is where, you know, you said the name Captain Brynn was mentioned. I mean, this is, I'm sure she is facing trouble at home and it's all his fault, is my assumption. Yeah. I agree. He's stirring up the people to not like her. It's not great. It's not great. You don't want to get into a relationship with a forsaken. Yeah.

[00:26:29] Mm-hmm. All right. Do you want to set up the discussion of the royal brood? Sure. Morgaze wants Swan to give her daughter her accepted ring so that Morgaze can take her back to Camelon. But Elaine is determined to stay and become the first full Aes Sedai Queen of Andor. Morgaze eventually relents, also leaving Galad and Gawain to begin their border training and her advisor Elida to keep an eye on things. But Elaine does get her accepted ring as well.

[00:26:58] Meanwhile, her sons are causing quite the stir in the tower with their shirtless training, much to Matt's annoyance. Matt already being annoyed that the Aes Sedai are not finding answers to all his memories of the ancient past, suddenly crowding his head. And now Galad is annoyingly rescuing every woman he talks to, despite the women trying to make it clear that they don't need any arrogant princes getting in their business. So Matt decides to teach him a lesson.

[00:27:24] He may not be a swordsman, but he's a master with both the bow and the staff. Typical weapons of the two rivers. And he whoops their asses soundly at the same time in the trading yard. I love when he gives him a little tap on the head and he goes, two marks. He didn't collect the money, so they owe him four marks. It's an IOU, yeah. I hope he brings it up later, next time he sees them. That'd be funny.

[00:27:52] He's going to bang on the wall the next time they're with a woman and go like, two marks! Oh, that sounds like he's demanding, like he's being a pimp or something. Oh, you're right. Oh, gosh. Well, those were, like, the women that the brothers were hooking up with were the ones that were hooking up with Matt before that, right? Well, I don't know if they were hooking up with him. They were kind of just, like, fawning over him a little bit. Right, his horn. They were blowing his horn?

[00:28:21] You know, I actually, blowing his horn, that's funny. I honestly, I know that this scene was the one that made you sort of roll your eyes. Yeah, so it was basically, he's standing there. And first of all, how, those rooms are so big, he's really gotten a massive upgrade. How can he hear both princes at the same time on either side of him having sex? I was just kind of like, okay. It was silly.

[00:28:47] I think if there were any other character in the middle of them, it would have made me annoyed. But Matt's reaction, I did enjoy. So I was okay with this one. Only because it was just Matt being like, oh, shucks. And I like giving him a little bit more, like, annoyance towards Galad and Gawain as a reason. Because in the books, he kind of just walks into this trying to get money, right? Like, he doesn't have any beef with them. At this point, he's like, yeah, let's teach you a lesson a little bit here. Yeah.

[00:29:17] Yeah. So, okay. So about Galad and Galad, I always say, but I guess it's because I'm thinking Galahad. Anyway. Well, then, well, but then wouldn't you say Galad? Because you're like Galahad, Galad? Yeah, I say Galad. Not Galad. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, I don't know. Who knows what it was. Anyway, Galad and Galad. But you and I always have a discussion about it that, about which one is worse. And, of course, we can't talk about where their stories go.

[00:29:47] But for me, at this point, you know, I just noticed that Gawain, he goes to, runs and hugs his sister. And Galad gives her, like, this stiff double kiss. And there's, I don't know, Galad thinks, like, he has nothing to learn from the warders. He makes that clear. He's like, oh, what could I possibly teach me? And I don't know. I just think, and Galad is also the one who's being more annoying with Matt trying to rescue every woman who talks to him.

[00:30:17] At this point, we see now. Yeah. Yeah. Fine. Fine. Go for it. I can't say anything else, so fine. I mean, but I think it's more interesting if that shifts in any way. Look, all I'll say is they are both very flawed people. I think they both have opportunities for growth. And Gawain has a totally punchable face, for sure. Oh, his face. I'm so sorry to the actor. And the hair. And the hair.

[00:30:47] Yeah. It's the hair. Yeah. It's the whole getup. It's the hair, the face, the makeup, the outfit. Like, it couldn't all, like, if I saw him on the street, I'm sure he wouldn't bother me. But the whole getup. And, like, it's like a snide smirk that he has on all the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to punch the guy. In a way that I don't want to punch Gallad. Right. And so that's why, you know, I almost wish that we had gotten a week between episodes

[00:31:16] two and three for people to speculate about Gabriel. Because it's, in a way, it's like Elaine's escape in that family that's so, you know, she says it's so political. Everybody's always maneuvering. And then she, it feels like this genuine warmth between her and Gabriel. And then you find out, oh, wait, no, it's just a forsaken who's playing her like a puppet. Yeah. Sorry, Elaine. It's not going great for you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:31:44] I just have to shout out, by the way, that Gallad and Gowan went to the tower with Elaine in the books and started water training at the same time. So we got a little nod to that where Gowan says, if she just let us start our water training when you came here like we wanted to. Thank you. Yeah. The book readers wanted you to. Like we did in the other turning of the book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The other turning of the wheel. But, um, 90, you've got some of the best lines this episode. It's just, I think everyone is in for this kind of thing, Matt.

[00:32:17] Yeah, that was pretty good. That was pretty good. Yeah. The both. So the first time we see the brothers sparring against each other is in episode two. And then when Matt spars against them, it's in episode three. But I did. I totally saw in that moment the punchability of Gowan, especially when he stopped mid-fight to blow a kiss to the girls in the crowd. Oh my God. Boo. Boo. I give me, give me the princess bride boo, you know? Yeah.

[00:32:45] As much of a boo as you can give. I was totally on Matt's side when he had this hilarious exchange with Elaine and Nynaeve where he says, so who are these tossers? And Elaine says, my brothers. And he says, so they're princes or something? And Nynaeve says, and they act like it, entitled bastards. No offense, Elaine. And Elaine says, none taken coming from someone sleeping with an actual king. Boom. Yes. Great exchange.

[00:33:10] You know, don't challenge Elaine to like a battle of words and wits. Right. You'll lose. She's very smart. And I like that they're keeping that in the show. Yeah. Yeah. She's smart. And she's also been trained her entire life to spar verbally. Right. Yeah. Because when you play that game of houses, you win or you don't. The stick fight is one of the scenes that I've been looking forward to most overall.

[00:33:38] And I think in terms of fight choreo, it was absolutely perfect. My only complaint is that there was almost no witnesses except for Nynaeve. I agree. I wish that we had some kind of like, you know, take him down a peg. Although it's interesting to have them both know that Matt can best them. Yeah. But have no witnesses, you know, like quietly they are embarrassed and they're not going to like pick a fight with him in public again, probably. And it's going to be something then that Nynaeve always has over them. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:08] She took pictures actually. Yeah. I hope so. She just was drawing furious. Well, she'll go back to that artist in the bar that Matt went to. She's like, bring your pastels and get over here right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's one other thing from, from this sequence of events that I want to bring up. It is, it is within, I think the realm of something I can talk about because it has been on,

[00:34:36] said on the show, but the show is doing this thing that the book also does where it actually tells you really important things in the background. But if you don't already know to listen for it, you're going to miss it. So I'm going to say it now. If you don't want to hear it, skip forward a couple of times because it is kind of a big reveal and a twist. And basically it's that Morgaz says to Elaine, the last daughter, the last daughter heir and Andor was named to grain.

[00:35:05] And we know the last name was Montier because she said that earlier. She disappeared causing the succession war that landed Morgaz on the throne. And, um, the thing is we have met a character named to grain. She's credited as to grain Montier in the credits. So I'm just going to tell you who that is. And it's, it's the, I have here preggy McKick ass from the cold open of season of season one, episode seven. It's Rand's mother. Hmm. Yeah.

[00:35:35] They, they do slide that right in there. Don't they? Yeah. They don't draw attention to it, but they said it. Yeah. And also I'll say it's not, it's like, it's a twist, but it's not the main twist. Like it's kind of a, it's kind of a sidestepping the twist. So that's good. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it still leaves questions, but, um, they, they draw the lines for the people who like have the time and energy and knowledge to connect the dots. Yeah, definitely.

[00:36:06] All right. Should we take a quick pause here and then come back and talk about some tower politics? Let's do it. All right. Shall we alternate paragraphs on this one?

[00:36:36] Sure. All right. So tower politics and tooting your own horn. Uh, Elida is snooping around the tower and everybody knows this. She's ruffling feathers in her own Aja where the Aja's highest Tsutama feels her toes being stepped on though. Red sitter Galena seems more sympathetic to Elida's interests. Swan, Leanne and Varin are positively bristling. They don't want Elida to know the extent of the black Aja corruption in the tower, lest she exploited as the weakness it is.

[00:37:07] And indeed, Elida wants to call for a vote and send eight sisters after Rand Althor to cage him. She says Swan Sanche will lose and the reds will restore the tower to its original mission, finding, caging, and controlling the dragon. But Swan catches wind of this and preemptively sends Leanna to send Tsutama packing with seven women of her choosing to go on her quest.

[00:37:33] But she finds, but she sends them after the false dragon, Mazrim Taim, instead of Ran. Elida, of course, is quick to volunteer to take her seat in the hall while she's away. Varin reveals that she's been having Min pose as a servant in the tower so that she can use her seer skills to read people's futures. She sees dead people, at least nine Aes Sedai and warders as well. Another battle is coming. And she also sees Matt as a hanged man.

[00:38:03] Swan sends Min to collect Matt and the horn. You heard about that? She reminds us all of the horn of Valir lore. He used it to call dead heroes back from the grave to fight for him. And now the horn will only work for him unless someone kills him. So the more people who know, the more will want to kill him. Whoops! She convinces him to give her the horn for safekeeping. Which, Swan, very smooth. Very smooth. Yeah. The way that she goes, would you like to leave it with me?

[00:38:32] Yes. Yes. It was so good. It was so good. But then, man, that performance when she goes, you remind me, what was her uncle? Her uncle, yeah. That's from the book too, by the way. Yeah, yeah. I remember that. Uncle Juan. But I mean, the delivery of it was amazing. You know, he was always playing the fool, but then he died trying to save more kids out of a burning building and would not stop until they were all out. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:01] He was a gambler and a ne'er-do-well person. And he was also a hero who died pulling children out of a burning building. And I think in the books, he told Matt that he reminded her of his uncle, but tells Moraine the whole he died proving he was a good man part. Oh. Well, it's nice that she gave him the other part too. She's like, I'm actually complimenting you in a way. Yeah. And I love this exchange. Matt says, I'm no hero.

[00:39:28] And she says, those we call heroes only did what they had to do. Yeah. Because he says, I did what I had to do. Yeah. I like, I do like when they frame heroism like this. You know, they do that in the Lord of the Rings too. Sam keeps going like, you ever think of all the people in the stories? Like we're on the stories now. But like, you never think of how hard it is when you're actually on them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:39:54] By the way, we, in the first two seasons, there were a lot of jokes made about Matt constantly wearing the same bathrobe, quote unquote. But this time he literally went to see the Amaralyn seat in a bathrobe. And the way he introduces himself is so ridiculous. He's like, hello, Matt Carlton here. Hornblower. His line deliveries are hysterical. Yeah. I'm really liking this guy now because I was, I was wary of it a little bit, especially at the beginning of last season. I thought he was pretty good by the end.

[00:40:24] I still wanted Barney back. And then this season, I don't know. So he's, he's going to another level. I don't know if it's him or the directing or the writing. I don't know what it is. I think, I think it's all of them because I think there's a really talented cast. There's obviously good directing and writing. Another line delivery I loved was from Elaine when she gets a knock on the door and she opens it and Swan's there and she goes, mother. And then Swan steps aside and Marguerite steps forward and she goes, mother. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. That was cute.

[00:40:55] But I love how, I mean, and this is obviously straight from the books, but how, especially like Swan or even more than that, Alita, how they're fighting over control of Rand as if like anyone has control of Rand. He's just like run off to the waist and he's like, okay, fight about who's in charge of me from over there. In the words of Obrother Warat though, he R-U-N-O-F-T. What is that? You, you never, you ever see Obrother Warat though? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not since it came out though. So it's been a while.

[00:41:25] It was like a dad trying to tell his brother that, uh, that the mom ran off and he goes, she R-U-N-O-F-T. And the kid understood it. And later he's like, he's like, don't forget to R-U-N-O-F-T. Anyway, I always quote that in my, in my everyday life. And that's a silly thing to quote because nobody knows it. I need to rewatch that movie. I do remember quite liking the movie and I, I'm a sucker for an Odyssey story. Yeah.

[00:41:54] I'm, I'm reading the full Odyssey for the first time right now. I'm reading the first translation done by a woman, which is, is very cool. Okay. Um, and it's very good. Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey. I'm, I'm really enjoying it so far. All right. Um, so yeah. So Aleda, speaking of a woman, um, less pleasant one. So Aleda says the dragon has been born and he's a man. This is what we have been preparing for, for centuries. And she calls out to Toma for not fighting for their seats in the hall.

[00:42:21] But, um, yeah. So they want to go after Mazram Taim, which you and I talked about actually in the, uh, geography lore cast, but he was mentioned last season a couple of times. Uh, both he and Loghain are false dragons. He's from Saldaya. Saldaya. And again, you will get that joke from the geography section. Uh, but yeah, that's, it's basically, it's a nation on the borderland coast.

[00:42:49] Um, yeah. So she wants, she doesn't want to go after Mazram Taim. She wants to go after Rand because he's the big prize. So doesn't that kind of show a hypocrisy? Well, I have a question for you. Do you believe that that is a true original purpose of the white tower is the cage of dragon? No, no, no, no. This is what the reds think. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:16] But, but at the same time, Swan in episode one says, if what you say is true, you know, I, I would have to be, uh, deposed basically when, because Leandrin is accusing her of not caging the dragon when she had the opportunity. So I do think there's some truth to that in the show. I don't think that's true in the books. That's just, that's just a faction saying we should do that in the books. Yeah. Uh, but, but here it sounds like this is like,

[00:43:44] a thing that the eyes that I have agreed on. Like some of them find it more tasteful than others, but they all agree that like the dragon has to be contained. And honestly, like, wouldn't you give that some credence when you see what men do when they channel? Oh, sure. And this is supposed to be the most powerful channeler, male channeler of all time. Yeah. I mean, I think they have different ideas about what caged means, but, uh, definitely they think that it's in the best interest of all of the world for the dragon to be controlled

[00:44:12] because he's destined to go mad because of the channeling. Um, but then you go, well, how does he fulfill the prophecies then? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Great question. It's a great question. Um, so you, you and I talked about privately, uh, an addition they seem to have added where Elida has some sort of tremor in her hands. Yeah. She's has, she has some kind of involuntary movement going on. Um, and, and the bracelet, I know you have some notes on that too. Yeah.

[00:44:40] Well, I mean, maybe the bracelet could be something used to tame them. I don't know. Yeah. We'll talk about that. But, um, because Elida calls Min out as a seer, she's like, I know why they put you in my room and it's because you can see things and you're spying on me. And by the way, we're totally alike because I have four tellings every now and then. And, and yeah, Min asks her if she's like looking at her and playing with this bracelet and Min says, does it have something to do with a foretelling? And Elida says of a sort.

[00:45:10] What do you think that's about? I think it's a dream bracelet. I think it's a dream. So why of a sort, it has to do with the foretelling because it's about, um, a talent? Well, cause the dream like can be foretelling, but maybe she can't get into tell her on Ryo'd without a Terran Kriel. Yeah. No, cause she will talk about dreamwalkers in a bit, but yeah, she's not a dreamwalker. Mm-hmm.

[00:45:37] But it was an interesting choice for her to tell Min that they're going after Rand. What do you think her game is with that? Oh, she's not going after Rand. She's, she's feeding her that information so that she'll feed that back to Swan and make Swan panic and do something, make a mistake. Hmm. Hmm. Okay. Okay. That's, that's my read on it at least. Mm-hmm. And this is where Elida says she had a foretelling that the queendom of Andor would play an important role in the last battle. And so she allied herself with Morgay's Terkons. Yep.

[00:46:08] Yeah. That tracks. And then we get to one of my favorite through lines in the books and I have to say they're nailing it in the show. We get a clandestine forsaken meetup. So we get a group of forsaken led by Lanfear. They gather and I thought it was in Teleron Riyadh. What did you think? Um, I don't think so. I think it's just a spooky. Yeah.

[00:46:32] I think it's just a spooky little tower because I think, um, when, when it seems similar to where Mogidion was making the gray man and I don't think she'd be able to do that in Teleron Riyadh. Hmm. Mogidion. I think she'd have to be in the physical world. Yeah. She is one of, she's, I think she's even better than Lanfear in Teleron Riyadh in the book. She is, but can she pull another human into it? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean. Can anyone do that? I think, maybe.

[00:47:00] I mean, but the thing is it could be a real place that where, but yeah, why would they be where she is if, if Lanfear was trying to avoid, she wanted to have a meeting about Mogidion. She didn't want it to be where she is. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, they probably reused a set, but of course in Teleron Riyadh, it can look like the real world. Right. So I don't know. Anyway, um, I, I just, I do like that they often meet in Teleron Riyadh because you

[00:47:29] can, it's an easy place to meet up across long distances. Uh, but if it's like almost like a physical place so that if people know you're there, they can come spy on you. Like we saw Mogidion doing. Right. Right. Anyway, this is where Lord Gabriel is revealed to be the forsaken Ravin. And we meet another forsaken who was named dropped last season, Samael. And the three discuss Ravin's success infiltrating the Camelon Royal house.

[00:47:56] And Lanfear says they need to watch out for Mogidion, who will be picking them off one by one from the shadows, starting with the weakest. Uh, it turns out that Ravin is also secretly working with Mogidion, who is hiding softly, softly. And Ravin says he'll take Lanfear's proposal of, of, of an alliance against Mogidion quote unquote to the others, which when Lanfear asks, he clarifies means graindole and summerage.

[00:48:22] But when the others leave, it's revealed that he knew Mogidion was hiding in the shadows, listening this whole time. She doesn't want to spend thousands more years in another cage and we'll do anything to prevent it. So we've got seven out of the eight TV forsaken ID now. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I, uh, I, I always think back to, to, uh, some quote from some show. I don't remember what it was. It's like, I'm playing both sides. That way I always come out on top.

[00:48:52] Yeah. That's kind of all the forsaken. Yeah. They just have different ways of doing it, different personalities. Yeah. Um, and, and I do love that about the wheel of time is that the villains are very creative, right? They, they feel unique. They don't, it's not just like generic bad guy. Right. Exactly. They don't feel like archetypes. They all, yeah. And they're, they're all doing this for different reasons and different ways of approaching things. And yeah.

[00:49:17] So we've, we met obviously a Shamael, uh, appeared to have gone down last season. Um, Lanfear is still around. Mogedian is big this season. Raven, AKA Gabriel. And then we just met Samael and we've had name dropped to female forsaken yet to be seen. Graindoll and Semerage.

[00:49:38] So in the book, there's six more forsaken in addition to these, but only there's only one spot left for the eight in the TV show because there's eight in step 13 in the show. So only two of them, I would say, well, you talked about this before. Only two of them are really contenders for the last spot in the TV eight. I was surprised that they dropped everybody here. Almost. Almost. Yeah. I was, that was pretty good. Pretty good on the, on the reveals. Although like, what are they really revealing with a name? Right? Like it could still be anybody. The other two. Right.

[00:50:08] The other three. In terms of who they are in the real world, you mean? Like who they look like and yeah. Yeah. But yeah, in terms of as book readers, you and I were both saying we hoped that the last one was Samaelage because it feels like it adds the most to the TV story to have that perspective. Yeah. She's just so mean. I think it'll be entertaining to watch. Yeah. No, I think, yeah, it's going to be. Woof.

[00:50:36] But also, yeah, the, where she comes into the story, which we won't spoil in this section. Samaelage is in the scene that has made me have my heart pounding. The only time I've ever had my heart pounding while reading a book was a scene with Samaelage. Okay. Yeah. I will say that. She's, she's in some ways the worst of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, they're not model citizens, any of them. No. So that's not saying something. Yeah.

[00:51:08] So Samael, he's the new one on the table. It's old tongue for destroyer of hope. And I don't know, should we say, I guess maybe we shouldn't say where he's based in the books. Yeah. Let's not do that yet. Okay. But I love, he comes in and makes a good first and interest, a, an amusing first impression where he just immediately reads Lanfear and her loose theron obsession for filth in a Scottish accent.

[00:51:36] He's like, you'd have stretched out at his feet if he said rug. Like, whoa. Yeah. She's like, you're not wrong. And then he says, if you're so strong, why isn't our great Lord speaking to you? And why aren't you nae bliss? So we know since a Samael left, there doesn't seem to be like the great Lord has not designated a new leader of the crew. Yeah. And honestly, I don't think that he had earned it at this point in the books either.

[00:52:05] Like, I don't think anybody had earned it at this point in the books, what I'm saying. I think Ishmael in the books was just kind of like one of the first ones out and much more powerful than the other ones that were the first ones out. So he just kind of was like leader by default. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's also like how much do we think that Ishmael was making himself seem more important? Yeah. Yeah. He wanted to like be taken as the dark one.

[00:52:36] Yeah. The way that the other ones are like, no, we serve the great Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Or do they? Well, we'll talk about Lanfear in a bit. Do you want to set up the Wonder Girls and their new job? I love the Wonder Girls. Let's do it. They're like the Powerpuff Girls, but better. Yeah. The Black Aja Hunters. Elaine overhears sisters Varen and Lyanna arguing over whether they can trust anyone now.

[00:53:01] Swan, feeling the same and wanting another reason to tie Elaine more firmly to the tower, asks Elaine and Nynaeve to find out. The girls start by interrogating Amiko Sedai, formerly of the Yellow Aja, and Joya, formerly of the Grey, who are in tower captivity after failing to capture Swan in episode one. Though they divide to conquer, even using their ability, as they're not full sisters and thus have not sworn the three O's to lie, to give them an advantage.

[00:53:31] But of course, all they get are lies from the two Black Sisters. Leandrin went to Tyr to help one of the Forsaken take Kalendor for himself. No, Leandrin's actually in Saldea to find the false dragon, Mazrim Taim. Nynaeve takes Elaine to where she last saw Leandrin's son, Eludrin, but he was killed last season by Lanphir.

[00:53:55] Under the empty bed, they find a white chalk and salt symbol, which they learn is a Tarabon or symbol meant to ease someone's reincarnation back into the next life and find their way home. To Tarabon. So, they head to Tarabon's capital city, Tanchico, and Matt and Min follow. Matt to get away from Tarbalan, especially since it turns out it wasn't so wise for him to tell everyone that he was the blower of the Horn of Aalir.

[00:54:22] And Min to make up for Matt's last season betrayal. Yeah. So, yeah, like Swan, I mean, she lays it out similar to the book. She's like, you two were kidnapped by the Black Aja, so you're basically the only two people we know are not Black Aja. You're a bunch of yourself, and as Mir accepted, you are less conspicuous. And this is basically the origin story of the Wonder Girls we've all been waiting for. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[00:54:53] That's the Wonder Girls. Oh, okay. That's the Power Boop Girl. I'm sorry. I was watching that with my daughter. I was like, let's try it. And she's a little old enough now. And I was like, oh, yeah, this show still slaps. So good. I never, I was a little older than it. I was aware of it, and I liked the design. It looked cool, but I never really watched it. I was a big fan. Big fan when I was a kid. Cool.

[00:55:17] So we also, we still have this connection between Nynaeve and Leandrin, which Nynaeve actually acknowledges. Swan says to Nynaeve, Leandrin could have killed you in the hall, and she didn't. Ask yourself why and how you can use that weakness. And then Nynaeve later admits to Elaine, you know, that she kind of has a soft spot for her. Or she's like, I think Leandrin wanted to help me in her own twisted way. Yeah, yeah. I, um, and I think she's right.

[00:55:46] I think Leandrin wanted like a Padawan. Or perhaps a Sith apprentice is the better. Right, exactly. An acolyte. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and, uh, Nynaeve, she's like really snappy, which is actually quite, yeah. All of the characters feel like they're becoming more themselves, you know. And she says, why should we trust you? And Swan says, that's exactly how I want you to think. Yeah, and again, great delivery. I, I really love Swan in this season, especially.

[00:56:16] I think she's really, I, I think parts of season one, again, a little bit to Shakespearean, a little bit, a little bit detached. Here, it feels like Swan, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we got some fish references throughout the episode, so. That's Swan. You need the fish metaphors. Um, and yeah, and she says, Elaine will go through the arches tonight, and then you can get to work. Ta-ta. Like, okay. Just, yeah.

[00:56:41] Um, yeah, by the way, I'm totally embarrassed that I missed that they captured Amiko and Joya in episode one, when Moraine helps Swan. Um, but of course, I was expecting that because they captured them, although all that happened in tier in the book, so. We knew they were changing where this stuff happened. Right, right. This does seem like a lot to put on to Accepted, but I guess, you know, the end of the world is coming. Look, the powerpuff girls can handle anything. Mm-hmm.

[00:57:11] And, and yeah, I mean, they are, you know, at the same time, they are accepted, but they are the most powerful channelers in the tower right now, too. That's true, too. That's true. And they were ready to get a bit rough with these two black sisters. They were like, let's just slap them around a little bit, you know? Let's rough them up a little bit. Let's threaten their lives. They're the dirty cops. Yeah, they were both playing bad cop. Also, they changed this a lot from the book because in the book they have, one of them actually does tell them the truth and the other one doesn't.

[00:57:41] And they're like, I feel like it's the Tanchico one. But they, I actually think this was better because they had much more concrete evidence and they're like, okay, let's go. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And they, yeah, they were able to do their actual Wonder Girl detective agency stuff. That's right. Yeah. Very Nancy Drew of them. And we got a little lore drop from Amiko who says, no one knows black sisters beyond their heart, which is your squad of three black Asha sisters.

[00:58:11] And each member of that squad knows one other black sister outside her heart. And Amiko's contact was Leandrum. So I think that part, that part's real. Yeah. And that's, we know that's real. That's like a thing that, that, that's how the black Asha is decentralized. And it's, it's very smart, right? Is, is you catch one and all you can get is like four other people. Right. Exactly.

[00:58:36] And we have, which is also funny that, you know, Landren, well, but there's, that's a thing. When Landren said that she would absolutely tell Swan, you know, if they tortured her. And so the others jumped in to help her. Um, I think, you know, so she knows four, but then how many do they know? So if you keep the torture train going, you're going to get a lot more reveals. Yeah, that's true. Uh, but we also got the winter girls doing some detective work, looking through the diagrams

[00:59:05] of the stolen objects to figure, and they figured out that that cuff seems to have something to do with the Sean Chan. And, um, Chan Chico is near foam where the last season ended, uh, where the Sean Chan, you know, landed on the coast and were occupying. So they suspect that Landren must be looking for the matching color in her hometown. And then Sherlockian, very Sherlockian. And then another gray man shows up.

[00:59:33] I don't know if this was Jai Chim or just a random gray man. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Cause that was the end of episode one, right? With the gray man, Krasian. Okay. Yeah. It could have been. I just, I couldn't tell either. Yeah. I feel like they just gave us a name. Jai Chim is like, oh, hey book readers, we see you moving on. Anyway, now for the actual entertainment, now for the people who pay the bills, the casuals.

[01:00:01] Well, yeah, I think there's just too many characters. I get it. They have to, they have to do a lot of narrowing down. Um, and so interesting. Nynaeve after, so the gray man, they come out and he's been killed and Nynaeve notes that Varen, Varen comes up and she's seems genuinely surprised to see the body there. But Nynaeve notes that Varen didn't ask who killed him. So I didn't even think that it was necessarily suspicious.

[01:00:29] Like wouldn't, I don't, I'm not sure what to take away from that because if it wouldn't be weird if Varen killed him because he's a gray man, you know? Yeah. But then the fact that she's acting surprised, uh, I mean, it seemed like she was genuinely surprised. I don't know. I didn't know what to take away from that. Do you have thoughts? And honestly, like why does she need to ask? Like it doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Like nobody's getting punished for killing the gray man. Right.

[01:00:56] And, uh, I, yeah, I, I think maybe what it's meant to show, and this is a generous read is just like they're paranoid about everybody now. So like anything that might seem a little bit out of place, they're like, they could be a black sister. Yeah. Especially, we see it especially coming from Nynaeve, which tracks. Yeah. Oh yeah. Nynaeve is going to hit you with her weave, hit you with her braid the minute that she suspects you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we, we got some good, um, Matt scenes this episode too.

[01:01:23] His healing sessions with the yellow Aja are going nowhere, but he and Min are kind of starting to make up after just a reminder for anyone who forgets Min last season. She, um, Ishamayel basically bribed her. He said he would get rid of her visions, which I don't think is true if she took Matt to Kyrian. So she did that, but then she, at the, he was supposed to like, she was supposed to get him to go off with Rand. And then she was like, no, Matt, don't do it. My visions say that that will be bad.

[01:01:52] And so she blew up her spot with Ishamayel, uh, but also ruined her friendship with Matt. And now she's like trying to make it up. Hmm. Yeah. Um, can I ask about Min? They changed her disguise quite a bit from the book, didn't they? What do you mean? In the book, she's disguised as like a very like. Oh, frilly girl. Yes. Yeah. Yes. She's Elmigrida. Uh-huh. And they, uh. And she hates it. Yeah. She has to be like extremely feminine.

[01:02:22] And she's like, oh my God, I hate this so much. Uh, here they just give her like, like, I will say this is a terrible disguise. It's just men in white. Like she's just in a different color. They're just basically, she's, she's a servant. Don't worry about it. But how, like the people in the tower, I guess most of them don't know who she is anyway. It's still silly. Like I. Yeah. Just don't even have her do a disguise. Right. Like at that point.

[01:02:48] I mean, but I guess, yeah, she needs an excuse to go serve people so that she can stare at them and see their auras or her stuff. Yeah. At least in the book. Like, look, I'm not saying they have to do the exact same thing, but like they changed her hair. They changed her makeup. They changed her personality and the way she holds her voice. Like a lot of things that would add up to like, this is a different person. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, yeah, it's not the same, but I guess maybe there's something sort of problematic about making a character who doesn't like to dress girly, dress girly.

[01:03:18] Well, that's what I mean about like, they didn't have to do the exact same thing, but they had to do something to disguise her other than like put her in a suit. I mean, but who are they hiding her from is the point. I don't know. Not a lot of that. That's for sure. No, no. Yeah. But a lot of it was going to find out anyway. That's true. That's true. But speaking about people finding things out, Elaine did not tell her brothers that they were leaving. How do you think that's going to go when everybody finds out? I think Gowan's stink face is going to get even stinkier.

[01:03:48] I think Galad's going to threaten people and challenge them to duels. And Mr. Stick isn't there to put him in his place. Exactly. Who's going to keep them in line? Because yeah, Galad apparently has no respect for the warders. Oh, I want a warder to kick his ass now too. I wonder if he'll be like, well, who did she leave with? Oh, well, Matt Cawthon's with her. You don't think that he could protect her?

[01:04:17] And he'll be like, I guess that's fine. Hmm. So over in Tanchico, meanwhile, Leandrin and the other escaped black Aja sisters storm into Leandrin's old family home during a wedding. And where an unhappy child bride is being married off, triggering Leandrin's own dark memories.

[01:04:41] She and her friends kill them all except the girl whose memory she has Naomi wipe, leaving her head mostly empty. The house is theirs now, but we the viewers can see something they can't. One of the servants is actually Mogedian in disguise. Whoa. Whoa. She's a very good disguiser, isn't she? Well, this is again like Tarabon, they all wear these veils. So that's super easy. Just slap a veil on everyone. Right, right.

[01:05:12] I can't wait to see more of the fashion in Tarabon. I think that's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah, the fashion so far is just excellent. And I love how they all put on like their badass outfits, especially. So we have the black Aja sisters. Leandrin is red and she's still wearing red. Jean is green. Chesmul's yellow. Ispan is blue. They're all wearing their colors except Naomi. She's like, nah, I'm a bad bitch now. And she's got like a black corset and or yeah, I don't think she's wearing any brown at all. Hmm.

[01:05:43] They just want to kick ass now. Yeah, yeah. We're ready for that part. The guy who was getting married, Jack Linnault, was another book reference where in the book he was a dark friend and a torturer. So we shouldn't feel bad about him getting his heart ripped out. Oh, I don't I didn't even remember that. The heart getting ripped out was a little much, wasn't it? Like we're gonna recommend this to Marilyn. Well, yeah, it's a bit much for Marilyn, I think. But yeah.

[01:06:10] And then we see Leandrin paint that chalk salt target for her son's soul. So I don't know. I wonder if and she had kind of like flashbacks to him as a child. But what if that was also his soul being reborn in a new baby? Well, I hope he gets a better mother. Mm hmm. Like my God. And and you know, she loved him as much as she could.

[01:06:36] I buy Leandrin being abused, particularly by men as a child. I also think it's it is a very tricky thing and can be very poorly done and overused to like make being abused by men like the character's motivation. Hmm. I mean, if you're going to do that with any character in the Wheel of Time, though, this one makes the most sense. Right.

[01:07:00] Yeah, no, that's why I think like all I mean is like using abuse as a device can be very poorly done and very, very unfortunately done. I do think I buy it here. Like like you say, like Red Aja, like completely just hates men who can channel like and men in general. I buy it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and Naomi, we see her studying that cuff that the Powerpuff Girls are the Wonder Girls were studying on the diagrams.

[01:07:29] And Naomi says it's older than the ones that Sonchan used, but her weaves have no effect. And Leandrin says that's because it's a male Adom. They are looking for the matching color to color the dragon reborn. So they want to do to Rand what was done to Egwene last season. Well, that seems not great. I'm sure that's going to go well for everybody. And everyone was happy forever and ever.

[01:07:59] And then the season finale, series finale, everyone sings Kumbaya in matching colors. Oh, sorry for those book spoilers now. Yeah. Hmm. Shall we take another break and then come back and talk about the other locations in these two episodes? The wheel weaves on. Hmm.

[01:08:42] So do you want to talk Teleron Riyad? I love Teleron Riyad. Mm-hmm. Me too. It's my favorite hard-to-pronounce place. It's actually, it's not that hard to pronounce. It's just hard to spell. Yeah. People often just spell it T-A-R. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Tar. Yeah. Oh, am I reading it? Yeah. Go for it. Oh, I'll read it. Yeah. Lanfear continues to seduce Rand in his dreams, playing the damsel in distress, who needs Rand

[01:09:11] to claim the magical sword to save her. She says if he could destroy the Dark One, it will release her from the O's hymn. We find out that Lanfear is at the same time disguising herself as Rena, a Gwain Shanshan tormentor from last season, to strangle and abuse her in her dreams, making her relive the worst moments of her life every night. A stand-up lady, right? Mm-hmm. A Gwain breaks away from the Rena nightmare to find herself standing in the desert in front

[01:09:40] of a wise one named Bear, who tells her she does not belong here. I thought it was Amis. No. Well, Amis doesn't exist. She's been folded into Bear in this version. Wait, really? Mm-hmm. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, that was Bear. I don't like that. Yeah, Amis is my favorite, but yeah, I know they have to simplify so we have three instead of five core wise ones. But why not keep the more well-known name?

[01:10:10] Bear is a well-known one, I guess because Bear's with Ruark, the clan chief. And Bear, but no, Amis was married to Ruark. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Because this also means that they gave Bear, so Bear does not, the interesting thing about Bear in the books was that she could not channel, but she could dreamwalk. And so now she can channel and dreamwalk because she's absorbed Amis' story.

[01:10:40] And so then instead they say Malayne cannot channel, but can dreamwalk. Interesting. I mean, I think it's fine. I'm just like, I'm very curious why they chose to do Bear, especially they already have a Bane who's Aiel. Yeah, I know. It's so close. It's one letter off. I just feel like that was the wrong choice. It gives me hope for Eludra and Eludrin. Fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, we're in the wheel of time. You can't complain about names being too close to each other. No. Yeah. Yeah. Lilane, Malane. Yeah.

[01:11:10] Egwene, Moraine. Anyway. I think the most egregious one is Domani and Damane. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because Domani is a nationality, basically, from our Domani. And Damane is what, you know, the colored people like we saw what happened to a grain. Yeah. And by the way, in the audiobooks, they do not pronounce them differently. It's just Damani, Damani.

[01:11:39] So if you have Damani from Domani, then. You could have Damani, Damani. Yeah. Hey, Macarena. So my takeaway from these dreams, though, is Rand. Dude. Come on. He's like, I know he doesn't know that Lanfear is tormenting Egwene at the same time she's seducing him. But he also knows he's not being cool. Yeah. He's a bad lady.

[01:12:10] She's a bad lady, rather. And he's a bad dude for sticking with her. Then again, he doesn't know how to get her out of his dreams either. Yeah, that's true. But also, like, a telling thing for me was Moraine asked Egwene if Rand gave her the bruises. I was like, damn. And she doesn't deny it either, which is weird. I know she gives her, like, a scowl. Like, a kind of inaudible denial. But I feel like she could have been a little stronger of, like, he's not doing that. Let's not give him crap for that.

[01:12:39] He has enough on his mind. And she says, I'm not here to help you control him, Moraine. But the thing is, Egwene is also, at this point, she's remembering from her own accepted test where she saw what it looks like if Rand goes mad. And it is not good. Wow! Yoshi did a great job there, by the way. That was very fun to watch. The wig was fun, too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The wig looked way more dragon-y. His eyes looked very unhinged, yeah. And there was a subtle red hue in the water, too.

[01:13:09] Subtle. Do you think that they're going to give him hair like that towards the end of the series? No. And so that Egwene is, like, on edge. Oh. Like, is he getting towards that? Ooh, good point. Good point. Hmm. Maybe. Maybe if he's... Oh, sorry. I wanted to be coy about saying something, but I shouldn't. But maybe he won't always have the opportunity to groom himself. Yeah. Hmm. I don't know.

[01:13:35] So, Lanfear, oh, she's also, she's playing, like, the damsel in distress, and she knows that works on Rand, but then she switches to classic emotional abuse. First, she calls Egwene that doe-eyed cow, and then she tells Rand, someday she's going to see you as you really are, as I see you. Basically, this is the super typical gaslighting, nobody but me would love you if they really knew you. Right, right. She's the worst. You'll never find anyone to love you like I do.

[01:14:05] Exactly. Exactly. But then, when Rand and Egwene wakes up from her nightmare, where, of course, she doesn't realize it's Lanfear tormenting her at this point, but Rand seems scared of Egwene when Egwene says she'd kill Renna again if she could. I mean, I don't really blame her after what Renna did to her? No, I don't blame her at all. And it was kind of surprising that Rand is judging her.

[01:14:33] Yeah, again, like, they haven't made Ren go as unhinged in the show, and I feel like that needs to come. Yeah. We got a slight preview, but it's early days yet. Yeah. Hmm. But, like, I mean, even at this point in the books, is what I'm saying. Like, at this point in the books, Rand has already done some questionable things. Yeah. I don't think we've gotten that in the show as much. Hmm. You think? What has he done by this point in the books?

[01:15:00] In the Dragon Reborn, in book three, he is traveling, and he kills some people who may have been innocent. Hmm. Hmm. We don't ever get a full answer as to whether they were, but he didn't really know either. You know what I hope they don't do? And I don't really consider this a spoiler, but he goes in this whole shtick for the longest time, like, I could not possibly harm a woman, not a woman. I'm like, don't do that. We don't need that.

[01:15:28] It's because of Robert Jordan's history, right? Is Robert Jordan was a veteran, and he killed a person fighting in a war, and he realized afterwards that it was a woman, and he felt very bad about it. And yes, there is sexism laced in that. And I don't think Robert Jordan realized that about what he was saying, which, you know, generationally, I think he had some growing to do. Yeah. And he put that into Ran, and I agree with you. I think we can bypass that in the show.

[01:15:58] We already have bypassed some of the negative stuff. Like, I feel like Mopey Ran is finally going away, and that's a good thing, because Mopey Ran lasts a long time in the book. It's true. It's true. I mean, we talked about in general that all of them, it seems like men with the visions and Perrin with the wolf stuff, and it seems like they've started to embrace their own stuff, except for now it's Matt's turn to be like, oh, these memories in my head.

[01:16:25] Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mount. How many times have you heard that in Ran's narration in the books? Well, never, because I read them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, shall we alternate entering the Waste? So, once Ran, Egwene, Moraine, Land, and Navienda cross the spine of the world, entering the Aeol Waste, they are greeted there by four new Aeol characters,

[01:16:55] Tardad Clan Chief Ruark and wise women Bear, Malayne, and Malindra. Bear found them after meeting Egwene in the dream world, Teleron Rialt. While traveling, Moraine notices that Egwene keeps getting bruises on her neck even after healing. Egwene confides in Bear about her nightmares, and Bear notices the bruises on her neck. Injuries sustained in the dream world can follow one to the waking world. But if this woman is hurting Egwene, she might be someone who is alive.

[01:17:24] So they set a trap, catching Lanfear in the act of impersonating the deceased, Renna, to torment Egwene. In the waking world, the group discovers a caravan of Tuathans slain near a watering hole, and we learn this clan of Tardad Aeol have a blood feud with another clan, the Shido. This apparently means they need to pick up the pace in getting to Ruidian, that mysterious city where men go to become clan chiefs and women to become wise ones,

[01:17:53] where Rand will undergo a trial, quote-unquote, go into the fog, so to speak. But that doesn't mean there isn't time to get a little sweaty. Moraine will have to forego her beloved baths in the waste, but the tent sauna system doesn't look so bad when Melindra starts baking eyes at her. But it turns out it's Lan she's looking at. When he sees a tattoo on her back, he understands. She's Malkiri. She tells him she knows who he is,

[01:18:19] and that his people wait for him to call them to charge into the blight and reclaim their land. So, yeah, this is why we did for the Lorecaste Geography this episode, because they're going all over the place. We talk about the spine of the world and, yeah, all these. But basically, those who left the tower have gone different directions towards the two other opposite sides of the continent, and then two rivers is kind of in the middle.

[01:18:51] Right, right. And the Aiel, do you think we're going to get their special name for Lan? Probably. They'll probably just drop it casually. Yeah, I think that's what it'll be. It'll be like a little nod for book readers. Yeah. Yeah, I think they know they have to. They want to drop all these names, but also it's too intimidating to have it so densely packed in just eight hour-long episodes a season. Right.

[01:19:20] To have all these terms and names and, yeah. Yeah, I mean, everything. And this is something that a lot of fantasy authors do, right, is have multiple names for the same thing, depending on the culture. And I think that's great for a rich fantasy world. But it also can be a little confusing in a TV show. Right. Well, we're already starting to, they're working up like all the different names for Rand, which is, he's a lot, obviously. Right. He's a freaking dragon reborn. Yeah. Exactly. And I also like how, so I was, I missed the fact when the, in the first season,

[01:19:49] in the first book, when they're traveling, doing that first trip together with, we have Lan training Rand on the sword and Moraine training Egwene in channeling. And so we got kind of a nod to that in this scene where Lan is training Rand with the sword while Moraine and Egwene watch. Um, and we get just, they're not going all into the sword forms like they do in the book, but we get this, like these occasional name drops. Like he says, parting the silk,

[01:20:19] which is one of the most common sword forms that they use, which, uh, is especially about balance. So, uh, yeah, I like these little shout outs. You gotta have them. Yeah. Yeah. I, I like that a lot. I think, um, you know, Ren, Ren being the Karkarn, maybe Ren being the dragon reborn, the missionary protectivity, the missionary protectiva are really busy on this world. That was a Dune reference for anyone who didn't get it.

[01:20:49] Um, so I also, we get some lower drop in the way that, um, well, first of all, we get Moraine doesn't like that Rand's, uh, training on the sword because he should be channeling, which I'm surprised to hear because he goes mad when he's channeling. So like, let's let him use a sword as much as he can. Right. I get her point is like, it's not going to help him against the forsaken. Right. That's true. Well, Hey, it did. It did against one. Yeah. It was kind of luck though. Yeah.

[01:21:19] It was also, he shot me. I was like, please kill me. I really just want to die. Yeah. Like I, this ain't so bad. He's okay with it. Yeah. Um, but then Avienda, she objects to the swords for a different reason because she says, why does he waste time with his swords? They are not the aisle way. When was the last time anyone caught their supper with a sword? Which, yeah, I think that's a great way to explain it. Like it's just so impractical. Yeah. Yeah. And the aisle never use swords. That's a big thing with them.

[01:21:49] And we'll find out why. Right. Uh, next week, I think. Yeah, probably. Um, and yeah, I also like how Avienda explains the whole car car thing. She says, your wetland prophecies are also clean. So easy. Your dragon will either save the world or destroy it. The car car shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves. I yield as water on sand and break them as dried twigs. Yet the remnants of a remnant,

[01:22:17] the car car shall save and they shall live. Our car car is creation and destruction wrapped in one balanced in the force. But you could also see how Moraine's like, well, fuck that's complicated. And I, I don't know if they're going to really like him now. Are we in danger? Hmm. Yeah. I mean, but that's, it makes sense though, that how could,

[01:22:42] how could there be any version of the dragon saving the world that doesn't get messy? And that's scary. It's true. It's true. It is scary. And, and all these, I mean, he's still going to break the world in some ways, right? Like he's going to destroy all oaths. Like that's one of the prophecies. He's going to, you know, basically like call people to bow to him. And it's, it's, it's not great. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:23:08] Bear says he will come from the West beyond the spine of the world of the blood, but not raised by the blood. He will tie us together with bonds. We cannot break. He will take us back home and he will destroy us. So yeah, the blood is they're referring to themselves, which is interesting because it's a slightly different wording than the books. And the blood is how the Sean Chan refer to themselves. But anyway, but yeah, so basically saying that he, he would be descended of them, but not raised by them, which check, check.

[01:23:38] And he will take us back home and he will destroy us to take us back home. They're saying the waste is not their home. Hmm. And where are they right there? They are in the threefold land. So why is it called the threefold land? It's a shaping stone to make them a testing ground to prove their word and a punishment. For their sin. Mm-hmm. And no, we do not yet know what the sin is, but we shall find out. Yeah. And we're not,

[01:24:07] we're not spoiling anything for anyone. We haven't watched ahead, but like we're leading right up to this. Like I'm pretty sure it's coming soon. I mean, they said we're going to Rody and, and Ran's going to do a trial. So we're going to find some things out. Naruto running towards the fog. We're going to find some things out. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the IO prophecy says, oh, they will leave the waste once the stone of tear falls. That's how it goes in the books anyway. So, uh,

[01:24:36] but Rand is collecting them to help make the stone of tear fall. Strike that reversive. You know, what's going to happen first. Mm-hmm. But it's interesting. So we got, uh, last season, we got some references to the IO war. We haven't really had it explained what that is yet. Uh, maybe we'll do a lower cast on that at some point, but, um, the IO war was Rand was born in the IO war. That's why his mother was there fighting, uh,

[01:25:05] the father who raised him. That was the IO war. And that was the first time apparently that the IO left the waste for, for generations, many, many, very long centuries. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, if it, I don't know if we can do a full or cast on it, but I think one on that and like Arthur, Arthur Hawk wing at the same time would be cool. Or the wars. Yeah. Maybe like the major wars of the major wars of history. Yeah. Cause there's,

[01:25:34] there's a few that come up again and again because they just kind of changed everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And book four, which is what we're adapting now is also where we get a lot of really interesting references to like what world we're on. So I think I'm hoping that they do some of that this season too. Yeah. I'm very curious about when we get to right in, because we also got, um, we saw even in, in, uh, season one, we saw not too far from the two rivers.

[01:26:03] There was skyscrapers that were ruined. Yeah. Like glass towers. I was talking though about, um, Tanchico. There's some clues in Tanchico. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, in, in the aisle waste, uh, Avienda says more blood has been spilled over water than gold in the threefold land, which makes sense. And, uh, they find those slain to off on the tinkers, by the way, which we will see again soon. Um,

[01:26:33] and she says, yeah, basically they're, they're arguing about like, could it have been a sword and lands? Like, no, I think it was a spear made to look like a sword because obviously the Aiel don't use sword. So they're trying to frame someone else. And they say it must be the Shido, this other clan. And they say they don't respect the rules. And then basically like, Avienda is like, thou shalt not slay the pathetic Tuathen who don't even defend themselves like suckers. Jesus. Like a little, a little mean there. Yeah.

[01:27:03] Yeah. I mean, she has no respect for them, but she knows you don't harm them. Yeah. Like you, you peasants go stand over there. Yeah. Yeah. So these, these four new characters, they are important if that's not clear. So we've got Ruark, the Tardad clan chief, Bear is his partner. And, uh, so these, these other three are wise ones, which they tease this name wise ones, but they haven't really explained it yet. Obviously. Well, I mean,

[01:27:33] it's clear. Some, some can channel, some can dream walk. Yeah. The magic, they're the magic ladies of the Aiel. They're the wise ones. Like, I feel like it's kind of self-explanatory, right? They're advisors. And they don't even have to be that strong in the power. It's more about their wisdom genuinely. Yeah. Although if they have special talents or, or can channel, then yeah. It's a help. It's certainly a help. Well, then you kind of, yeah, if you can channel, then you kind of have to become a wise one. I feel like.

[01:28:03] Yeah. Yeah. A lot of them do, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So we have bear and Malene are dreamwalkers and they're, they say they're the only dreamwalkers in the Tardad and their clan of Aiel. And bear tells a Gwain that a Gwain is a dreamwalker as well. The first from the tower in centuries. So yeah, more of this magic re emerging amongst the younger generation. Why would bear know that though?

[01:28:32] That there haven't been, well, she can, she can dreamwalk. She can know whatever she wants to know. She knows everything that's like, she knows every person who's come from the tower though. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like not, not that she couldn't find it out, but does, would she really care? Like, like, I, I just feel like the Aiel wise ones kind of look down at the, I said, I'm like, whatever. Maybe Moraine should have been the one to said, to say she was the first from the tower. And said like, like a bear can say, Oh, you're a dreamwalker.

[01:29:02] Like me and Moraine. And then she, Gwain tells Moraine and Moraine's like, Oh, you're the first in centuries. But yeah. Gwain's also sniping at Moraine right now and doesn't seem to be telling her everything. Yeah. That's like, she was more open with bear about the bruises on her neck than she was with Moraine. Right. Yeah. She's, she's not too happy with the I said, I in general, I think. Hmm. Yeah. Um, and then we have Malaine who can't channel in this version. Um,

[01:29:33] and yeah, they also, they condensed the, the clans, which makes sense. They're just basically like, all of these are from the Tardad clan done. That's fine. That's fine. We're not going to make you memorize more clan names. I couldn't like say all the clan names off the top of my head. No, no. I mean, there's basically there's the two most important are the Tardad and the Shido, which, and these are the two we know that they're keeping and Melindra, the, um, the other one who's with them. She's,

[01:30:02] she was the Malkiri who was raised by the Tardad Ael in this version, but she's actually Shido in the books. Oh, I didn't, that's an interesting change. Yeah. She's Shido, but she hangs out more with like the Tardad, um, the Tardad wise one. Yeah. Because the wise, the wise ones are supposed to be like sort of separate from like above all the system. Yeah. But they still like hang out with their clans usually. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:30:31] They're supposed to be above the petty politics, but you know, yeah, but they're not. Mm hmm. Yeah. They, they do what a lot of people do in those positions, which is like, they are out of it when it's convenient and they're in it when they're, when it's convenient. Exactly. Yeah. They're, they remain human. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Should we take turns for the last, uh, section? You want to start? To the two rivers. Perrin, loyal, Chiad, and Bane travel by the ways to the two rivers.

[01:31:02] There, Perrin finds most people are happy, but anxious to see them. There are white cloaks in town looking for Perrin specifically. Marin Elvier, Egwene's mother, says that it's best that they hide in the attic of her and her husband's inn with the others. The others, they learn are Alana and Maxim, who apparently fled Tarvalon after losing Ivan in the battle with the black Aja, and then were attacked by trollocs in the ways. So came here to take refuge. Mr.

[01:31:31] Salvear tells them there have been trolloc attacks, nothing like Beltine at the start of the first season, but steady. And now the white cloaks are here and acting like bullies. They've even arrested Matt's mother and sisters because Abel Cawthon helped Perrin's family escape. Marin wants Perrin and the rest to leave in the morning, but Perrin says he'll turn himself in if the white cloaks are looking for him. However, Perrin has more allies in town than enemies,

[01:32:00] and they refuse to let him do it. So he plans to sneak into the white cloak camp to rescue the Cawthans. There's another group in town as well, Hunters of the Horn, led by Lord Luke. One of their members, a young woman named Fahil, befriends Perrin. So first of all, I love how they're just like casually using the ways now. I know. I know. I was fine. As Loyal points out, they do have an O'Gear with them.

[01:32:30] Yeah. And did you, did you get that Alana used the ways too? Or is it just that like the kids were in the kids, the Emmons field five were in Tar Valon long, a pretty long time after the battle. No, I think they made it clear that Alana and Maxim used the ways and they were, it was making them suspicious of them because Loyal said only dark friends use them without. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. I do love the, the, you know, so TV shows, they love jetpacking.

[01:33:00] We complain about it and everything from, you know, from a game of Thrones to silo. And at least in this story, like, like we talked about with the Taviran, you know, they have the jetpacking built into the lore. They're like, Oh, they just use the ways. Or we know that Leandrin has a faster way of getting around. Right. Hmm. But we finally got the stone leaf, which is how we see the ways first opened in the books. Um,

[01:33:28] so we saw Loyal used a stone leaf to lock the, the door to the ways behind them. It just goes into the little mural part of the magic. Mm hmm. Uh, we, there was a glimpse of Pat and Fane with one in his hand and an unused season one clip. Okay. So we're doing that. It's not just channeling. They added the ability to channel into it in the show, but I guess, right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I have to wonder, well,

[01:33:55] cause we know there was some awkward things I had to do with the end there, but yeah. And we also get our first reference of Loyal is starting to suffer from the longing. So what's the longing for people who don't know? The longing is kind of what, uh, Loyal describes, which is if an old year is away from a setting for too long, they start to get sad and they'll eventually die. But like, it takes a very long time. Yeah. Do you think we'll see a studying this season? This season? No,

[01:34:26] I think next season. Did you notice that they changed Loyal's look? His, his ears are much pointier for one. I didn't notice, but, uh, I believe you. I didn't notice it so much in the first episode, but I definitely noticed it when they were in the two rivers. Okay. Yeah. Nice. And we see him writing his book because that's like a, that's a through line in the books that he's, he's following them around because he wants to write a book about all the things going on in the age. Tavirin.

[01:34:56] Yes. You have to, you have to have him say Tavirin every like five minutes. Well, yeah, that's how we know. Oh, we're, I'm following the plot horror. The Tavirin. Hmm. That's like a thing that a ogier can like identify Tavirin. Like naturally. Yeah. Yeah. They're like the ends of this story, but they're long lived. They're slow. But, uh, when you get them going,

[01:35:25] we saw, we saw him fight. Yeah. We saw him fight last season. Hmm. And even episode one, right? Against the acts. True. True. Yeah. Um, I want to give a shout out to the production designer, Andres. knock, Nick Vassel. Sorry. I'm not, uh, well versed in check, but they had to rebuild this entire town because they burned it down in the first season. Oh,

[01:35:54] and I don't think they, they can't, I think they've already dismantled it and stuff. They can't just leave it there. Yeah. I actually heard, I, do you know the show school spirits? I feel like we've talked about it a little bit on second breakfast. Uh, yeah, it's, yeah, it's one that I'm curious about, but I haven't watched it. Well, the school that they use in season one got demolished in between seasons. And so they had to rebuild the whole set. Oh, damn. Like it was an actual school and they, and they tore the school down. And so they had to like recreate exactly all of these sets.

[01:36:24] Oh, damn. Wow. Um, and we got another recasting, Marin Alfear, but we haven't seen her, I think since season one when she was played by Lolita Chakrabarti. And now she's played by Rena Mahoney. So, yeah, I, I couldn't even remember what she looked like in season one. So I didn't, it didn't matter to me. No, same. And I think, yeah, that was an easier one than say the Matt recasting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that was a tough one. I mean, I was really glad with the recasting, but that was a drastic change. Yeah.

[01:36:54] Um, and we, we get Perrin having flashbacks that time he accidentally killed his wife when I don't know. I don't think he was ever super deeply in love with her in the first place. I think he feels more guilty than anything else. They added that whole, like, he was actually in love with the Gwaine. I read that in the books though. I read that in the books. I saw a little bit of it, but not like anything egregious. Hmm. Not like they were going to fight about it. Hmm. Yeah.

[01:37:24] But we, it seems like he, he's laying his whole wife thing to rest. We see him bury his ring. Um, he and Alana have, have their little talk about grief, which was nice. Uh, that, and it was in the books. He says like, when he finds out his parents have died, he just keeps repeating randomly that his mother loved apple trees. So they have, have them in like this version.

[01:37:53] Everyone gets buried with an apple seedling. It was very sad, but it was sweet. Mm hmm. Yeah. And Alana with, you know, they mix the ashes of the dead and, uh, with water and paint them on their faces. Oh, wow. In RFL. I don't know if that's sanitary. Well, I mean, it's burned. I still don't think it's sanitary. Hmm. But yeah, and we see,

[01:38:22] and I think it's really interesting how they have Alana and Maxim dealing with, like, they do not have compatible mourning styles, which is a normal thing that happens when, you know, two people, like if two parents lose a child or something like that, they might grieve differently, but here it's exacerbated by the fact that they share a bond so they can feel like she's like, you're driving me crazy. And he's like, you're dead inside. And yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. I would not want to be part of their thruple right now. No. Well, yeah.

[01:38:52] Two halves of, we have two thirds of it. I feel like it's still a thruple though. Like I still wouldn't call them a couple. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, because incomplete thruple. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But it is very fucking convenient that they happen to be in the two rivers. Although I noticed Maxim said, even he doesn't know why they are in the two rivers. So what do you think? Why do you think Alana took them there? Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. I know why she took them there in the books. So I don't want to,

[01:39:21] I don't want to say anything. I don't want to speculate. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. And apologies for misstating that it was a nine Eve in our trailer break. Breakdown. We should have known better and got called out. Did we? I didn't even see the call out. But yeah, I like that. So Perrin, it seems like he's dealing with his golden eyes well, but he does get called out because it does make him look witchy. Witchy.

[01:39:52] And unlike the books in this version, Perrin really did kill, kill Jeffery and Bornhold and foam. Yeah. But basically for anyone who forgets, he was in a berserker rage after Jeffery killed Hopper, which seems fair to me, but his son, Dane, who's leading this group of white cloaks might have other ideas. Right. Right. I mean, how happy were you to see Eamon Valda? Not very like,

[01:40:21] I don't know. He's a good villain, but a scary guy. No, I was being sarcastic. He's the one who played slice and dice with Perrin's back in season one until he was attacked by wolves. I think it's, he's a new white streak in his hair. Do you think that's from the wolf trauma? He's never stopped thinking about Perrin. And, and that, that, that streak of hair is the part of his brain. That's constantly dedicated to Perrin. Perrin and his wolves. Yeah.

[01:40:49] But we see a difference between them because Dane doesn't want to put the innocent people of the two rivers to the question. And Valda says this must be a tainted place to raise such a poisonous person. But then Dane's also like caging everybody. And yeah. You know, collective punishment is against the Geneva convention, but I don't know if the Geneva convention applies here. The, the, uh, the children of the light convention is, uh,

[01:41:18] that they can do whatever the fuck they want. There, there was this Twitter account. I don't remember. And it was like, it was the, it was like two white cloak accounts and they were just like going around and calling everyone dark friends. I thought it was very fun. This was during season two, of course. And I, I just remember those, those people. I hope they're on blue sky now because they were a lot of fun. They were just like dark friend. I said, I'm not a dark friend. And they said, that's exactly what a dark friend would say.

[01:41:48] Well, there is. So the actor who plays Dane Bornhold is actually active online and interacts with the wheel of time community. He's great. And then there's also a Dane Bornhold, uh, kind of not cosplayer, uh, role player, uh, account. And the two of them interacting is hilarious. That's funny. Hmm. Um, but yeah, so Dane sent for more white cloaks to come help deal with the trollic problem.

[01:42:17] So we've got more white cloaks coming. Don't worry. And in town, I love the name dropped the Congress, the coplins. And we even got Senbui after we got a fake out of Senbui where they cast him. And then they changed his name to angry old man and killed him in the first episode. Oh, is that what happened? I didn't know. I'm aware of this. Yeah. I, I enjoyed him. He was just like, well, why do we have to protect you? Yeah. Such a Senbui thing to say. Yeah. It felt right. Yeah.

[01:42:46] So yeah, it is in the books. It's always like if people are causing trouble or, you know, complaining or just being unpleasant, it's always the Congress, the coplins and Senbui. Um, they're notable folks. Yeah. Except days Conger. She's, she's the one who she's part of the women's circle. And we saw her stand up in this episode and be like, Senbui, shut up. Somebody's got to do it. Yeah. Um,

[01:43:18] but yeah, I, I mean, I guess we, they gave a nice explanation to any actors. They could not include this season. They're like, they're all helping. Um, they're all helping parents, family escape, which is, I'm sad that Tam's not here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sure. I'm sure he's busy actor. Yeah. But I'm also, I also have questions about Abel Cawthon, Matt's dad. They portrayed him as like a really, like a ne'er do well in the first season.

[01:43:47] And now he was like a total piece of shit in the first. Yeah. And I had problems with that. I thought that was not great. Like, again, like that was my complaint is like, stop making things dark. That don't need to be dark. Like, but now he's done like a turnaround. Yeah. A turnabout about face. Yeah. Fine. I don't know. We'll see if, if they come back. I missed him. I missed him. Rand misses 10.

[01:44:15] And is this funny that Emmons fields become like an absolute thoroughfare because of course they move the whole hundreds of the horn thing to here rather than elsewhere, which makes sense. But I have to say in the show's defense, this is also the point in the books where Emmons field starts opening up. Yeah. And I think there was like a whole bit where Fahil says in the books, like, Oh, I heard it was in Manethrin in like the ruins of Manethrin. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. And we see Perrin stepping up as a leader,

[01:44:43] discouraging people from leaving the safety of town. Yeah, he does. And he does it right away too. I think, you know, I got some flack for saying, I didn't think that the, uh, the gals needed to be to Viren on our, on our, whatever thing. But I think actually Perrin is kind of the reason I felt that way for a while. Um, and I, and I've taken the criticism of my take into, into consideration. And I think, I think it's a fair critique. Um, it's just Perrin to me without the Taviren,

[01:45:13] I can't see him convincing all these people, all these very stubborn people. Whereas some of the other characters, some of the, the like Egwene, especially I think is just smart and makes the most of people doubting her. And I don't think that requires Taviren. I think that just requires wit. Whereas I think Perrin really needs like magic to get Senbuie to shut up. You know what I mean? I mean, I guess it could be,

[01:45:42] I wouldn't mind it if it weren't gender divided, you know, like you could have some characters who are Taviren and some who are just have sharp wits, but what bothers me is the gender divide. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. And that's why I took the criticism into consideration. I was like, yeah, that's probably right. I think the only one who really needs to be Taviren is Rand. Right. Well, and Matt. Matt, yeah. Matt kind of needs to be Taviren too, to make it work. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And it is funny.

[01:46:11] So we meet fail, fail who first introduces herself as Mandar, but which is exactly what she does in the books. And this is, it means blade in the old tongue. So you, yeah, it makes sense. I didn't even remember. Yeah. Dragon reborn in a while, but it's, it's funny because parent laughs because that's the name of land's horse. right. Right. And then she says, okay, no, my name's file, which means fountain of a fat, sorry, Falcon. Um, and she,

[01:46:39] she is a hunter of the horn of Valir. And that is the horn that Matt has. So she's like, have you heard of the horn? He's like, Oh yeah, I'm acquainted. I sure have heard of that. Sure. Sure. Have. Just wait until you meet Matt. He'll tell you all about it, but maybe not anymore because Swan scared him into silence. It's like, never heard of it. Yeah. Which is funny because he was really cautious in the books and in the show, they were like, hello. Well, now he's going to be cautious.

[01:47:10] Right. Um, I love that file says to parent, he, he basically is putting together this plan to go break out the coffins, which I assume will happen next episode. And she says, is that a plan or a hope you need both? If you want to lead. And he says, I don't want to lead. I don't want it. I don't want it. Let's not do the Jon Snow thing too long with this one. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean,

[01:47:39] I think they're already starting to turn that around. So I think I'm glad that they've been moving through like the, no, no, I couldn't possibly. Okay. Yeah. And look, the reluctant leader is a trope as old as literally like biblical. Like Moses is the original, like reluctant leader. Um, and, and so I get it. I get why Jordan wants to do that, but they don't have to be so reluctant. They can step up at some point, uh, without whining about it. And, uh,

[01:48:07] Perrin definitely needed that Taviran magic here. He definitely needed that Taviran magic here. Cause people were, were not feeling it at first. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess you mean, of course, like it's, it's the guy, the white cloaks are after, and now his eyes are all weird and witchy and yellow, and he killed his wife. And, you know, yeah, doesn't exactly. I like Perrin, but I mean, he did kill his wife. that's what I mean is like, you need a little for that. You need a little pattern.

[01:48:37] That's fair. All right. So we're after we do our outro, we're going to talk about a book spoilers in the white tower section, but do you have any more thoughts for the non book spoiler section? I just think great start to the season for this first three episodes. I can't believe we're only on week one still, cause it's like our fifth podcast we've recorded already, but you know what? We're, we're going to have a great time this season. It's going to be so fun going forward and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. Well,

[01:49:07] I was saying to you, as we were planning, you know, at least these first three episodes, they, they establish everything. They establish all the new characters and new locations and the factions and everything. So now it's like, we've, we've set the chessboard. We've started to make the first moves. And now this is where it's all going to get very interesting. Yeah. I still think we could have just done weekly release Amazon. You don't have to do. I know. I know. I could have done two. And then, you know, like I said,

[01:49:35] it would have been fun to hang out for a week without the Robin reveal. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing that Amazon. I mean, thank you for the screeners, but don't do that anymore, please. But don't do that to viewers at home because it's so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what's, what's going on? Do you want to remind people about the season pass option again? Yes. Now you can always be a recurring subscriber on our Patreon or supercast and you'll get all the stuff that we do ad free.

[01:50:04] You'll get our bonus content like second breakfast at 11 Z's. But if you just want wheel of time content and you want extra wheel of time content, you can get at least one bonus episode a week with our lore cast by signing up for the wheel of time season pass. You can find that in the show notes and that's through supercast. It's 10 bucks. One time. You'll never be charged again and you will have permanent access to just our wheel of time coverage of this season and the past season. So you'll also get the show guide,

[01:50:31] which Nancy did so much work on and I'm so appreciative of Nancy. Our hand to the pod. Should we give her another title for, is she the, I feel like we should give her, yeah. Is she the Keeper of the Chronicles? Exactly. Exactly what she is. Exactly. Great. Keeper of the Chronicles Nancy is doing. So does that make us collectively the Amaralyn? The, yeah, I guess so. That's pretty flattering to ourselves.

[01:51:01] Anyway, it's, it's got a character guide. It's got a location guide and then we've got a concept guide. So a lot of these things, like I just realized while we were recording this, I was like, I need to make a Taviran entry. So like any of these concepts that come up that have long words or like define pronouns, not pronouns, like proper nouns. I think we'll, we'll define in the, in the concept guide. Yeah. That's in there. That's in there already. Yeah.

[01:51:30] And so as you said, if you are a subscriber on Supercast or Patreon, you do also get all that, but then all that for the other shows as well. And also voting for this month's 11s. Yeah. Scott Pilgrim and Zoolander were neck and neck. I'm not sure if the voting's over yet, but it's going to be. Scott Pilgrim is winning by two votes and it has two more days. Okay. Well, one more day by the time this comes out, because it comes out tomorrow. Right. All right. So if you're a subscriber and you don't,

[01:51:58] you want it to be Zoolander over Scott Pilgrim, you better vote. You gotta go for it. I am reading Scott Pilgrim. I'm almost, I'm in the fourth of six books now. Well, I think it's going to be Scott Pilgrim because usually by now people are done voting. Interesting. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We just put out a Silmarillion story. We did a Star Wars film fest. We recorded. It's coming out this coming Monday. Um, and we also just put out a Lorehounds play on Indiana Jones and the great circle, which is really great game.

[01:52:27] I had a lot of fun with it. Uh, yeah, I'm, I'm very intrigued by, I want to hear you guys talk about it, but I don't know if I'll have time to play with it. We do a spoiler free review in the beginning and then we go into spoilers. I want the spoilers. Um, it's kind of just an Indiana Jones movie as a video game. We're, so we're doing, so you guys just also put out a mid season white Lotus episode and John and I are doing sporadic coverage of daredevil. But so far we just right like the night before this comes out,

[01:52:57] you'll have gotten, uh, a daredevil episode for, uh, episode three, because we just could not, not respond to what happened in that episode. And I'll just say there's a surprising link between that up, this episode that John and I recorded and your, uh, Indiana Jones episode. Oh, really? Okay. In terms of a common actor. So it's Harrison Ford. No. It's, uh,

[01:53:27] Oh, is it, is it Troy Baker? No, it's Kamara de los Reyes who passed away. Oh, okay. Yeah. He was, he was the giant in, uh, Indiana Jones. Okay. Yeah. And the game was dedicated to him and another actor who also passed away. Okay. I didn't even, I didn't realize he was in daredevil at all. Yeah. Yeah. He, uh, uh, so yeah, so we were doing sporadic daredevil coverage.

[01:53:56] We're going to be doing it every two weeks from now on. And, uh, there's full coverage obviously of the wheel of time with the extra episodes. And you guys are doing full coverage of the last of us season two. Where it's coming up. Yeah. Coming up quick. Come up, coming up quick. And, uh, yeah, I'm very excited about, I saying I played the first game, but I watched the cinematics of the second game. So I know the whole story. The second game is like, it's gutting. I said to David, I was like,

[01:54:25] if you thought the first season was dark, you ain't seen nothing yet. Hold your pants. And he, uh, he was like, I can't imagine how. And I was like, just, just buckle up. Just wait. Oh yeah. Buckle up, buddy. We're all wondering if the thing that happens at the start of the second game, we're all wondering when that's going to happen in the show. It's going to happen early. I think, I think it has to for the integrity of it. Oh man. Oh man. Um, yeah. And then we also, we have and or plans, but, uh, I know you,

[01:54:53] you want to do a special announcement too. I do want to discuss how we're going to do that. There will be a podcast for every episode. That's all I'll say. You've despite their weird, annoying release schedule. Yes. Yeah. It'll be fun. And we're figuring out doctor who will see what happens with that. Yeah. Yeah. Probably end up doing two or three episodes through the season. Yeah. Um, yeah. It just, thank you all for listening to this. Uh, if you liked it, please do share this episode with other wheel of time fans or people who should be wheel of time fans.

[01:55:22] We need everyone to become wheel of time fans this season. Uh, watch, get out all of your friends to watch right away because, uh, some good numbers would be good for renewal prospects. I have so much fear about that. Yeah. I mean, Bezos is not great on, on, uh, he's, he's mostly great on it, but, uh, the, the expanse made me a little nervous. Well, it's just, it's also like, he's not going to give up on, um, on rings of power because, you know, he's,

[01:55:51] it's a personal favorite of his and he sunk a bunch of money into it. And I just think if you, you need to have more than one fantasy show on your platform to buoy them all. And I, I genuinely think wheel of time is the best fantasy show on television. I don't know if I agree with you, but I'm going to think about it. It's very good. It's great. Even. I just don't know if I'd call it the best. I have to think about that. yeah, I genuinely think it's even better than game of Thrones,

[01:56:21] but we'll see at the end of this season. Hopefully everyone agrees with me. Okay. All right. Um, but yeah, explore the link tree in the show notes and you'll find all of that stuff about, uh, the, the season pass and subscriber stuff, but also all the affiliates. And I just want to shout out, especially radioactive ramblings is doing weekly breakdowns of invincible right now, which I'm behind on, but apparently it's an awesome season. Um, yeah.

[01:56:51] And join us on the discord to chat about all this. We have a special watt forum and also send feedback to watt at the lorehounds.com. And we'll do a couple of feedback episodes to see them. Yeah. I'm going to be doing a bonus pod with Mark of nevermind the music too for a severance. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Oh, cool. Yeah. He wants to jump on a wheel of time pod. He's very excited to talk wheel of time with us. So we got to get him on and check out nevermind the music. Cause it's great stuff. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's,

[01:57:19] I think people like just see the songs and don't realize you don't even have to know or like the songs or whatever. Oh yeah. You're going to get so much out of this. Like, yeah, give a, give a couple episodes a try and you'll be surprised what random knowledge you walk away with and new insights. Definitely. Yeah. All right. Do you want to do the reading of the names? Sure. I will read from the roles of the white tower novice book. No, they're not novices. They're at least accepted.

[01:57:48] I got server boosters. Aaron K. Tell her the thriller. Dork of the ninjas. Dove 71. Athena A. Tina. Lestu. Nancy M. Ghost of Partition. And radioactive Richard. And our lore masters. The Martian. Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. SC. Peter O. H. Bettina W. Adam S. Nancy M. Dove 71. Brian 8063. Frederick H. Sarah L. Gareth C. Matthew M. Sarah M. DJ Miwa. Andra B. Kwong Yu.

[01:58:17] Dead Eye Jedi Bob. Nathan T. Alex V. Sub Zero. Aaron K. Deli V. Mothership 61. Narls? Kathy W. Lestu. Jeffrey B. Elisa Yu. Neil F. Ben B. Scott F. Steven N. Julia F. Kali S. Ilmariel. And Adriane. Thanks all. Always great to have your support. It helps us do like four podcasts in a week on the Wheel of Time only. Yeah.

[01:58:46] Well, I mean, this is a doozy of a first week. But then look out for a normal release pattern after this. Right. We'll do the recap and a lore cast. That should be it after this. Right. And the occasional extras, was like the mailbag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So spoilers after the outro. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions, feedback, and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact.

[01:59:16] Get early and add free access to all our episodes at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Hey, still here? Welcome to White Tower Talk. All information discussed from this point on is sealed to the Hall of the Tower. It includes spoilers for all the books all the way to the end. I'm serious.

[01:59:41] So do make sure you have the proper authorization to sit in on this meeting. Clonk, clonk. Should we start in Camelon? So we got introduced to the Tricond boys, but we have some questions about parentage. Do we think Galad is Morghaze's son in this version? I hope not. I hope they keep the interesting connection to Rand.

[02:00:10] Maybe they don't want Rand and Elaine to have a half-brother in common? I think it's fine. Like, they're not related. Yeah, I know, but it's still like they have a half-brother in common. They are siblings once removed. They're both not biologically related and not raised together. I think we're all fine. I mean, I'm fine with it, but yeah, maybe they would avoid that. I don't know. Or maybe the whole backstory is too complicated.

[02:00:35] I did just notice, though, that when Galad was a boy, he ran up to Morghaze like she was his mother. But I guess maybe at that point, she was, basically. I think that they need to not shy away from certain complicated things that are meaningful. Because, you know, you look at Game of Thrones and like, yeah, like the Jon Snow identity reveal is like a little complicated. But imagine they took that out because they're like, I don't feel like explaining that. Yeah.

[02:01:05] You know what I mean? Like, just leave it in. Like, people trust your audience a little more. I think that's something the show could do a little better is just trust the audience a little more. I mean, they did already say that she won the war of succession because Tigraine wandered off. And they have identified Rand's mother as Tigraine previously. So, they are setting that up. But then, yeah, it's interesting that at the coronation, it's just Morghaze.

[02:01:33] There's no mention ever of the children's father. So, yeah, I'm curious to see what exactly. They did set up some things for future succession. So, the third succession war is the one that Morghaze won. But there's going to be a fourth succession war coming up. And in the fourth succession war, there are three houses in the books that turn the tide of that war. And those are the three houses that had their throats lit.

[02:02:03] Baron, Anshar, and Kair. And they were initially supporting House Marne. And then they swung their support back to Chakand after Elaine did some politicking. So, they're setting up definitely why they would not support Chakand after she killed them. Right. And probably this was a miscalculation by Morghaze. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:02:30] I do wonder if we're going to get any Lady Amarilla Marne or Lady Dilan Taravan to show up this season or next. Yeah, I... Look. Important players in that. I want them to just decrease the amount of time of that plotline entirely. Mm-hmm. Because it just drags and drags and drags on the book. I mean, they have to necessarily. And they've really toned down the number of houses too. Like, they only mentioned three. They're like, that's enough. Like, yeah, we get the idea. Yep.

[02:03:00] Hmm. Mm-hmm. We got Lord Luke. A lot of people were thinking that they might get rid of him because he's too complicated, his whole backstory. I think they probably simplified his origin like they did with Patton Fane. But were you, I mean, excited to see him turn up? Yeah. And I'll say, I hardly understand his origin. Right. And I've read the books multiple times. It's just like... Uh-huh. And like, it's complicated without a payoff.

[02:03:30] Right. You know what I mean? Like, there's really no payoff for it. So I would be totally fine with that. I was excited to see him. I think Perrin deserves a big bad to go up against. Mm-hmm. And I think by contracting Perrin's middle book storyline, it'll be a lot more interesting of an arc for him. Yeah. I mean, I do. I find that whole arc interesting because I'm very excited to see... I want Hopper to come back. Obviously, I'm looking forward to that. And I want to see Perrin in the wolf dreams. That's one of my favorite whole sequences in the books.

[02:03:59] And obviously, Slayer, Lord Luke, is part of that. Look, it's just a weave. Yeah. I mean, so I just... I don't need his entire weird, complicated backstory. But I... Yeah. As you say, I want that villain for Perrin to go up against. Yeah. And Hopper. Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can't help but notice that Margais leaving her entire family and Aleda behind at the tower isolates her with Gabriel. I'm sure that's going to go well.

[02:04:30] She disappeared soon. She disappeared. I wonder how much Olivia Williams we're going to get this season. Yeah. But I think... Do you think that she'll come back or do you think she'll actually just die in this version? I think she'll come back. I mean, I think they're going to want to keep Olivia Williams. And she... I actually... I am a Morgais defender. I think... I like her storyline in the books. Yeah, I do too. Like is a strong word because she goes through some shit.

[02:05:00] But, you know, I find her storyline interesting and personally I find it rewarding. Yeah, I think so. You know, she's like, you know what? I did my shit. I'm retiring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. She just gets to a certain point. Yeah. And it is... She does, like, for all of her politicking, she does genuinely love her daughter. Yes, she does. She does. And you can tell that in the show too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[02:05:28] Yeah, even though we, you know, we just met her and we just saw them interacting. It felt... It felt very natural. Like, they all feel so comfortable with each other. And I think that's another strength of this season. Yeah, for sure. So, just wanted to shout out that one of the lies that we got from... Was it Amico that said this one? I can't remember. About Leandrin going... Saying that Leandrin went to Tyr to get someone to help her steal the sword.

[02:05:56] That's actually a reference to a plot that Belal, a forsaken who's definitely not the last one showing up. So, I'm wondering if... So, Samael is in Ilion and Belal was in Tyr. I wonder if Samael will get Belal's plot since those two countries are next to each other. Hmm. Interesting. I could see it. I could see it. I wonder. Or if they'll just move Samael to Tyr or something. Yeah, that could be. I mean... What is Ilion really doing?

[02:06:26] It's not... Like, there's nothing that unique about that plotline of him taking it. Mm-hmm. Except the fact that, like, the Ilioners... Ilioners? Is that what it is? They just kind of welcome Rand as, like, a liberator, not a conqueror. Right. And also his father fought in their Ilioner companions. Right. Hmm. Right. I liked how they set up Melindra. You know, that she...

[02:06:53] She seems like there's some sexual tension with Moraine, potentially. And, obviously, the whole Malkiri thing with Lan. Um... And then, you know... And the fact that she's a Shido in the book, and they just made her Tardad here. I think one of the reasons, probably, they did that is to hide the fact better that she's a dark friend. Hmm. So, I wonder if this Malkiri refugee backstory is going to play into how and why she became a dark friend.

[02:07:22] What if she's not really a Malkiri, either? What if they just were like, let's burn a tattoo onto you? Hmm. Oh, yeah. The... Well, she must have had it her whole life, so that's playing the long game. Yeah. Very fair. Yeah. And I like... Yeah, I'm excited for... I don't know. I don't know if Marilyn's going to keep going, but I wanted to find out that Elida is not Black Aja. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I think...

[02:07:52] That's cool. She's one of the more interesting characters because she thinks she's serving the light, but she's just so horrible about it. Yeah. Yeah. And we see also that actually Galena, who seems really nice, is Black Aja. And I thank you again. I made a little oopsie in the first episode where I just said she was Black Aja in the non-spoiler zone. And so you had to go and take that out today. Oh, Zencaster, which we record on, will generate a transcript for you.

[02:08:21] So I was able to just get the timestamp, basically, and go right in. It was not so bad, so don't worry. But they're setting that up nicely where we know there's still some Black Aja sisters in the tower. Yeah. And that's... It's an interesting whodunit we got going on now. Yeah. And, yeah, I think maybe I'm... In some ways, I don't know. I was going to say I'm most excited about Tanchico, but then I think about Roydean and everything.

[02:08:48] And I think about the Battle of the Two Rivers, and I'm excited for it all. But in Tanchico, I'm excited to see what they might add to the story with this whole thing about Leandrin's son reincarnating. And I'm putting on my clown makeup, and I'm like, well, because his name's Eludra, she's going to meet an illuminator named Eludra and feel a kinship with her. I saw you putting it on in my head, clown makeup. Yeah.

[02:09:17] I mean, look, I'll say I definitely have preference for the Roydean plotline in the books. Mm-hmm. Just because I think the visions, when Ran goes through the vision process, is like... I had chills reading it. It was so good. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited about that to happen. Well, we do... I mean, it's actually public knowledge they've announced when it's happening. Oh. Next week.

[02:09:47] Oh, lovely. So that's going to be a huge mid-season episode. I hope people really enjoy that, because it's one of the best parts. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It seems like they did... Like, I've seen photos and stuff of... Or little clips of... Not clips, but just, like, images of what it looks like as they go through these visions, and it looks astounding. Because Ran plays all of his ancestors.

[02:10:17] I mean, sorry, Joscha Stradowski plays all of Ran's ancestors. I'm looking forward to that. Mm-hmm. It's going to be a really good episode next episode, I think. And I'm going to... I'm not going to watch it tonight, because it's like 9 o'clock already. No. Yeah. And I know it's much later for you. Mm-hmm. So... But I'm going to watch it soon. Yeah. I'm definitely going to watch it tomorrow. Especially because I have to make the notes for the next one. But yeah.

[02:10:43] So I was also thinking about Tanchiko Grandal, who's one of my favorite Forsaken up there with Mogherian. She was in Arad Doman in the books. But I'm wondering, what if the show moves her to Tanchiko? What if she's there? Okay. I think it would be really interesting to sort of play misdirection with one Forsaken while another one is plotting in the background. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:11:11] I'm looking for her to show up. She's also really creepy. Like, not as scary as Semerage. But she plays an interesting role in the story, too. Yeah. Also wondering if they've moved to Tanchiko. So Min saw Matt hanging. Will there be a doorway to another realm in Tanchiko? I don't know. Like, we got the tease of the snakes and foxes in the White Tower. But will we get a similar thing?

[02:11:41] I could definitely see, like, you have the artifact room right there. Like, absolutely. You could just have that there. Or in the Panarchs Palace. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Very excited for next week and the four weeks after that. Do you have any final thoughts? I want Gowan to get punched in the face before the end of the season. Well, that's what Matt did with the stick.

[02:12:12] It's not enough. Just play that on repeat. It's like, reminds me of in Game of Thrones where Tyrion slaps Joffrey in, like, one of the first episodes. And people, someone turned it into, like, a 10-hour remix of just slapping over and over. It's, uh... You know those, like... I don't know if you saw this TikTok trend where people were like, do you mind if I put on some white noise to go to sleep? And then it'll be something, like, really aggressive. Like, I could just watch Gowan be punched in the face by Matt.

[02:12:42] To put you to sleep. Yeah, put me to sleep. Yeah, I'm definitely going to be re-watching the stick fight. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for talking through two episodes. Woo! Double episode done. Yeah. And we did it only two hours, 10 minutes. That's pretty good. Yeah. It's pretty good. I know you were probably worried that I would make it much longer. Well, I worry about everything. That's just part of my personality. Hmm.

[02:13:12] Yeah, I'm so excited. As we're recording, it is the night before everyone's going to see these episodes. And I cannot wait to see people's reactions. And the TikToks, I said. I don't hang out on TikTok, but I want people to send me the good TikToks. I've stopped being on TikTok as much because it got annoying. Like, I feel like the algorithm has degraded since we came back from the ban. I actually... I've replaced it on my home screen with Shonen Jump so I could read one piece. Whenever I want to scroll.

[02:13:41] Oh, that's probably a better way to spend your time. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, may the light be with you. And also with you. Are you ready for a deep dive into one of the most intense animated series out there? Welcome to Radioactive Ramblings, where we are currently breaking down the world of Invincible. Each week, we're going to unpack the jaw-dropping twists, the unforgettable characters, and that trademark brutal action.

[02:14:11] From Mark Grayson's journey to the darker side of heroism, to our continued love of Debbie, we've got every moment covered. Mark, I don't want to hurt you. I'm not the one who's going to get hurt. You said you don't do threats. Yeah. Well, people change. Whether you're a longtime fan or just getting started, tune in to our exclusive takes, fan theories, and so much more. Catch new episodes of Radioactive Ramblings every week. Your go-to podcast for all things Invincible and more.

[02:14:45] Think of a song you really love. Don't you want to know why you love it so much? Well, we can't answer that. No, but we can deep dive into it anyway. Unless we get too sidetracked. We're the Nevermind the Music podcast. One musician. And one psychologist. Talking about iconic songs. The musical tricks that blow our minds. And what they show us about our minds. Join us each week as we pick apart everything from TLC to Weezer. And from Billie Eilish to Bruno Mars. With plenty of distractions in between.

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