The Wheel of Time - S03E06 - The Shadow in the Night

[00:00:01] Nicole, did you ever notice how the sign by Ace of Bass has really strange key changes? I did not, Mark. I'm a real person. Well, let me tell you about it. I'll let you talk about neuroscience gobbledygook. Yes! I thought you'd never ask. This is the Nevermind the Music Podcast. Where one psychologist... And one musician... Deep dive into the songs you love. So you don't have to. And there's plenty of time to get off topic. From semi-charmed life to the way you move... And who could forget the crossroads? Is it THE crossroads or THE crossroads?

[00:00:29] Save it for the episode, Mark. Listen to Nevermind the Music. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:00:55] Welcome to the Lorehounds coverage of The Wheel of Time Season 3 Episode 6 The Shadow in the Night. I'm Alicia, Mogetian's food taster. And I'm John, the bloody daughter heir of Andor. For most of the episode we're going to be talking spoilers through Season 3 Episode 6 and equivalent book stuff. But we will not be talking future book spoilers. If you want to hear future book spoilers for the entire series, then stick around until after the outro music for our White Tower talk.

[00:01:25] And do also, by the way... We're recording it after this, but it will be released before this. Check out our first mailbag of the season where we had special guest Mark from Nevermind the Music. We love Mark. He's a good guy. Yeah. He knows a lot about the music and a lot of Wheel of Time stuff too. I listened to your music breakdown with him, which was very good. I recommend people check it out. Which I think the first part is public, right? And then... Yeah, the first part is public.

[00:01:53] Full is on the Supercast or Patreon, regular subscriber or the season pass. And if you're wondering if, you know, with the two new songs this week, if that means we're going to do another extra music lore cast. Yes, we are. So watch out for that this week as well. In addition to the regular lore cast, which is going to be about talents. Very exciting. It's good stuff. So, John, what did you think of episode six, the shadow in the night overall?

[00:02:24] I thought it was both great and dark. And dark in a way that it needed to be. You know, we've had some victories these past few episodes. I think we had to set back our characters a little bit. We really challenged Ran's character and challenged his development in a way that had not been in a while. We had seen Ran smiling and laughing a little bit more. And this is something necessary for his character growth, right? He has to face these challenges.

[00:02:54] They did a really good job of porting things over from the books without directly doing it, but having the same impact. And that's impressive to me. I really like Tantico. I loved watching Nynaeve get a little toasted and start to loosen up a little bit. I never thought I'd see her smile. And they're doing a great job. And Tom Marilyn, welcome back. Missed you. Good stuff.

[00:03:22] I love how Min basically told Nynaeve she has a resting bitch face. It's like resting ice to die face. That's so funny. What do you think? Yeah, so very powerful ending. I felt like I kind of kicked myself. I should have known. I was talking last week like, oh, why do we think they added a kid? Well, of course, they didn't add the kid. They just changed the location and messed with my head.

[00:03:48] Because, again, in book three, they would have gone to Tyr and started all that stuff with Kalendor. But they decided, and I think it was the right thing to do, they go to Tyr, then they go to Waste, then they go back to Tyr later. And so they decided, like, let's just go to Tyr once because we don't have so much time. So a lot of the action from this part of the story that takes place in Tyr is ported elsewhere.

[00:04:12] And this, you know, child who dies where it's pretty much Ran's fault and he has a really hard time handling it, that's an important turning point for him. And you even kind of obliquely referenced it a few episodes. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wonder if they'll do that. And I think I kind of thought maybe they would shy away from killing the child on air. What did you think? I went, do it. I was Palpatine. No, you know, I'm a parent. I don't like to watch kids die.

[00:04:42] No. Luckily, this is fiction and no one has been harmed in the making of this show. But did you think they would pull their punches on that plot point? I hoped not. Like, I hoped that they were going to go for it because this is this whole show is trying to think of a way to say it. Not spoilery, but like, you know, you see the forsaken like some of them want to pull Ran to the dark. Some of them want to pull him to the light.

[00:05:07] And you see in Moraine's future villains, like the question largely turns on like which side will Ran choose? He's not just a chosen one. He is the turning point. Right. Mm hmm. And so this is one of the moments where the dark really hits him hard. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think especially because maybe this is what we'll talk later, I suppose, more about what we think Lanfear's motives were in sending Samael after Ran.

[00:05:36] Um, but I definitely to corrupt him in some way, maybe even with like a hope that he would do something so horrible. He thought that he was no longer good. Her? That she wants. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Not the groomer. But the torture of a Gwain. Yeah. Yeah. I am, you know, I am glad that I saw this because we have our screeners. I saw it actually before episode, just before episode five came out.

[00:06:05] And I'm glad about that because, um, I was kind of surprised about this ending. And then of course, you know, it was like, oh, duh, of course. Like as soon as the collapse happened, I'm like, oh my God, that's what's happening right now. Um, and I'll just say like, that's the best kind of twist is one that you go back and you're like, I should have seen that coming. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So I was a bit bummed to see after episode five came out and, and, you know, the little girl, Alcera is introduced. Um, already people are like, oh, she's going to die. I'm like, oh, come on.

[00:06:35] It's, uh, it's, people are too smart sometimes. Yeah. I've not been in, in, on the discourse. So I was, I was saved from that. Um, I've just had like a really busy month. So like, I only watched this episode last night and, uh, you had told me earlier, you were like, so they really went there. I was like, okay. All right. I'm looking forward to seeing what that means. And, uh, they did go there. Yeah. Um, I also really loved the Tanchico stuff. I was very excited to see Tom back.

[00:07:05] Um, I'm looking forward to him having more interactions with Elaine. He made that reference this episode about having a past at the court in Camelon. So very interested to hear, uh, that background and, you know, how they know each other and all that. Um, and whether it matches up in the books, I guess I should say. Um, I, I thought it was a really fun song. Obviously we're going to talk more about that with Mark, but, um, you and I were just talking before we started recording a little bit about it.

[00:07:35] And you, you said you're, you're happier with Tom song than the first season one, at least. Oh yeah. I mean, world's better. It's the first season. I was like, all right, we have like hot topic Johnny cash here. And I don't need that. Uh, he was just so dark and for, for no reason, in my opinion. And, uh, this season, like he's, he's got that, like, uh, not, not, not smug this, like this, like bad attitude, but in a,

[00:08:04] fun way. Do you know what I mean? Like you need, I can't think of the word for this. It's like kind of sardonic, like cheeky. Yeah. Yeah. He's kind of cheeky. And, and I like that. That is, that is what I want Tom Maryland to be. Yeah. And yeah, especially with Matt, you know, that's a good energy for that two of them together. Right. They were great bouncing off each other this season and they could have made a fun thing where they were, he was like, Matt, you look different, but they didn't. They didn't. Um, did you notice? It was great.

[00:08:34] On that front about looking different. Did you notice? So when they showed up in Tanchico last episode and there was the guy hanging, did you notice that the hanging corpse who was missing an eye that he kind of looks like Barney Harris, the original Matt casting? I didn't notice that. But now I have to go back and look. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I was overall, I was quite happy with this episode. The one thing I'm like kind of grumbly about is like, I'm like, I don't know.

[00:09:03] Alana's healing felt a little bit too easy, but we'll talk about that. Absolutely. It did. I even thought when I was doing this, I was like, am I going to be upset about this? No. Hand wave, hand wave, hand wave. Yeah. I mean, yeah. At the moment it happened, I'm like, ah, ah, and then they like changed scene and I was like, ooh, I'm back in. You know? Something I'll say is like, and this I think is just kind of a, not the way the show has changed, but a way that I've changed it approaching the show is like, yes.

[00:09:29] In the books, it would have taken her probably like a week to recover from that. But we are in. Nobody got time for that. We have two more episodes of this season after this. Like we, exactly. Like you say, like we don't have time. We don't have time. Yeah. So I'm okay with them changing the rules a little bit where like healing is, is more of a miracle here in this than it is in the books so that we can get moving again. And Alana can get back on her feet. Right. And walk and be like, sorry to interrupt you making out. Let me heal you. That'll make it much more comfortable.

[00:09:58] Kind of, kind of out of character. She would have asked to join in. Yeah, that's true. Good call. We're the maidens. Um, yeah. But so, I mean, that was just like my one little gripe this episode. I loved everything else. And they did. They really sold me on Perrin and Fael, Fael, this episode. Um, I do love to see a couple share their secrets on screen. Like, yes, just trust each other. Build that trust. Become a team. So, I'm all in on that. Do you buy her story?

[00:10:28] Well, we'll talk about that. But like, I was, I was with her about two thirds of the way through and then I was like, what? So, I hope, yeah. I hope she's lying about one thing. Okay. I don't know. We'll see. They might have just, they might have just changed it. I guess I don't want her to be lying, though, to Perrin. Yeah, but she's already lied once about her name, right? So, who knows? Who knows? Yeah. She's from Saldaya. So, you never know what they're going to do.

[00:10:59] Um, so, before we get into the episode proper, I just want to shout out one piece of news. We're not going to really talk about it in depth right now. You and I talked about it a bit before we started recording. But just something that you may be hearing that may affect the show. And actually, maybe we'll have talked about this more, uh, in the feedback episode that comes out before this. But, uh, Jennifer Salke, who was, she was basically like the head of programming at Amazon MGM.

[00:11:25] And she, uh, has exited her role there, gone into a producing role, reportedly by force. So, that does cast a little bit of nervousness around projects she helped usher in, like the Wheel of Time. Especially since there's a lot of, um, uh, clamping down on projects that have diverse global casts and lots of women.

[00:11:49] So, just to say that it is more important than ever that the numbers for this show be undeniable. So, if you really like this show and you want to see more of this, then be an evangelist in your life. And tell everyone who you think might like it. Anyone you know who liked Game of Thrones, Rings of Power, Witcher, any of the other fantasy shows. That they have to check this one out. ASAP. Because, uh, if they have the right numbers.

[00:12:19] And I know that the numbers are pretty decent. But if they have the right numbers, then it's really hard to say let's not make more. Yeah, and I don't want to go into, like, the fact that streaming was, like, a fool's promise. Like, this idea that we could have all these random streamers charging $20 a month. And the money will just keep rolling in. And we could fund all these giant projects that cable would have never greenlit. Like, hmm. I don't want to go too deep into that.

[00:12:46] But, uh, I do think we're seeing a little bit of a financial collapse of the streaming industry, too. Sure. Overall, like, films and entertainment overall. It's, uh, there's troubling days right now. Um, but one thing that especially helps is anyone who signs up for Amazon and then watches The Wheel of Time first. That kind of gets, like, bonus points from the powers that be. Sony and Amazon. I basically did that.

[00:13:13] Because my, I let my regular Prime expire for reasons. Exactly. And I, then I signed up for Prime Video to watch Wheel of Time. Yeah. Oh, wait. What's the difference between regular Prime and Prime Video? Like, Prime, the shipping. Like, the all-inclusive, like, shipping and everything. Oh, you have two different options? Yeah, you can just sign up for Prime Video. You don't have to sign up for Prime itself. Oh, okay. They're linked here. Which, yeah. You get Prime Video with regular Prime here.

[00:13:41] But you can just sign up for Prime Video. For a cheaper price. Which is cheaper. Okay. Okay, cool. Cool. All right. Well, shall we jump into the episode proper? I think we should. So, this is Season 3, Episode 6, The Shadow of the Night, written by Rami Park, who also wrote Season 2, Episode 6. Which is the episode where Egwene is basically tortured by Renna. So, it's, yeah, obviously, this is someone they bring in when they're like, We're going to go dark this episode, and we need you to take us there.

[00:14:12] Um, she also wrote the Origins episode, episodes, which, again, you can find those. They are like five minute, less than five minute long, little mini lore animated episodes that you can find under the Extras tab for Season 1. And we're still waiting for August of 2023 for Season 2. I feel like if you ask Bezos, like, where these episodes are, he'll go, Hey, look over there. Yeah, exactly. Bird, squirrel. Yeah.

[00:14:41] Um, and the director was Marta Cunningham, who also directed the last episode. And this one was an hour and eight minutes long. So, nice, lengthy episodes this season, at least. Yeah. I can't complain about that. Me. As usual. Yeah. As usual, we'll be talking through one story arc at a time, and we'll be thus discussing scenes out of order, you know, out of the order in which they aired. Do you want to set us up for the cold open? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:39] Children came to serve the forsaken known as Ishmael. Are you doing a How I Met Your Mother thing there? And that, kids, is How I Met Your Forsaken. I mean, I guess I could have phrased it that way if I had thought of it. I feel like that show's more vivid in your head than mine, even though I did watch it and enjoyed it. I've watched it probably, like, every time I was, like, moving back to New York City or something, I would, like, re-watch that show because it's, like, just nice background watching. It's very problematic.

[00:16:07] I just want to say that off the back. I'm not without knowledge that it's problematic at times. But it's still, like, a comfort show for all the stupid running jokes. Yeah. I mean, the cast is iconic, so. Yeah. Are you aware of the Josh Radner song? Can we detour for a second? Wait, what's the Josh Radner song? There's a song that somebody wrote that's, like, and she told me I remind her of Ted Mosby. I said, honestly, I'm flattered. She said, don't be. I said, really? No, I'm flattered.

[00:16:37] Ted's annoying, but I like Josh Radner. She said, who? I said, the actor. And this went viral on TikTok to the point where Josh Radner found out about this. And he went to the guy's house who wrote it. They set it up. And he sat on his bed. And they sang it together for another TikTok. That's really funny. Oh, man. Now I have to look this up. Yeah. You got to look it up. So I just wanted to point out about Leandrin. About Tanchico. Or Tanchico. Tanchico.

[00:17:07] I think they're saying Tanchico in the show. I always say Tanchico. I always say Tanchico. So now I'm going to stick to my Tanchico. You won this one. Tanchico. But so Kate Fleetwood, who plays Leandrin, she is from Liverpool. And so Liverpudlians are called Scousers. And she said, you know, Tanchico reminds me of Liverpool. You know, like this port city and other factors and stuff.

[00:17:34] She said, what if when Leandrin goes there, she slips back into her Scouse accent? And so that's why the people of Tanchico have Scouser accents. That's cool. Mm-hmm. They're from Liverpool. I'm really bad at impressions. So am I. I just do them anyway. No, you're way better than I am, actually. Ah, I don't think so.

[00:18:02] But yeah, so again, it's funny. It comes up later in the episode, but she is, it was 95 years ago, and she's still alive and looking like she does because Aes Sedai, or channelers in general, age very slowly. It's sort of like they're drinking the super spice whenever they sip on the source. They're like, it must be her ghost. It's like, nah, nah, dude. Nah, dude. I just, sir. That's just, that's what she looks like at like, well, okay. So what was, she was like 15 in the flashback. So that must make her like 110.

[00:18:33] Something like that. Yeah. Wow. Looking good. I mean, that's skincare routine. And I'm also glad, I was really wondering about, Ishamayel appears in the back of the poster for this season with the glass columns. And so I was like, how can that be? You know, he died last season and now we know. Flashbacks. We can always have them in flashbacks. We love a good flashback. Mm-hmm. Especially if it includes Ferris Ferris.

[00:19:03] Do you want to set up the first part of the thrills of Tenchico? Sure. Nainee, Valene, Matt, and Min have two tasks. One, to find Leandrin and the rest of the Black Aja. And two, to find the other two pieces of the male IDOM before they do. Are they saying ADOM or IDOM in the show? I always say ADOM. I think in the audiobooks they say IDOM, but I think the show's saying IDOM, so I'm going to say IDOM.

[00:19:32] To find the other two pieces of the male IDOM before they do. They head to the night market so that they can mingle with the locals and try to get information. Elaine starts flirting with the locals in her best Tarabonar accent. Matt joins the gamblers, flirting with the locals without bothering to put on a Tarabonar accent. And Naineev and Min stake out a tavern, hoping Min will get some helpful visions around the people there. And then they all have a little fun in spite of themselves.

[00:20:00] Matt asks around to the traders about whether they've seen any jewelry, specifically a neck piece for men that matches the description of the ADOM collar he's looking for. Then he hears through the crowd a familiar voice. It's the gleam in Tom, last left for dead when he fought a fade to protect Matt and Rand in season one. Tom thankfully quickly forgives Matt and Matt catches him up on what's been going on with him and Rand since Tom saw them last.

[00:20:27] Tom says he doesn't want any part of their Taviran drama until he hears they're looking for Leandrin. Leandrin is someone he would also like to find. Sorry, I was just saying, like, he's like, I don't want to be involved, but I'll come. I'll come. Yeah, it's the Taviran-ness. You can't deny it. I actually think it was Elaine that made him stay. Well, I mean, in the end, but this conversation with Matt was happening before he saw Elaine.

[00:20:55] Yeah, but he was still saying, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Leandrin, I still don't want to be involved. Anyway, Elaine at one point unveils her face and is recognized as the daughter heir of and or Tom, recognizing her himself from his previous time in the Camelon court, swoops in to try and rescue her. To prove that she is not, in fact, a princess. With Tom's help, she leads the crowd in a body rendition of the song The Hills of Tanchico.

[00:21:23] So, yeah, I love how they, because one of my favorite things about the books is how they just have this vast world of different cultures, you know? And so I'm glad, of course, that they got a multicultural cast from all over the world for that, but also just the way that they've been able to find locations and have the production designers and custom designers and everything that make these worlds come to life and feel real and unique.

[00:21:53] And Tanchico is a great example of that. Yeah, they did a really great job with this. It feels like a different place than we've been. Mm-hmm. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. And again, this was filmed in South Africa, the Tanchico stuff. Nice. They, and they, you know, as usual, like, they haven't gone as deep in some aspects of the lore, but they've expanded other aspects of the lore. Like, they invented new veil lore. Like, the whole thing, I was a little bit confused when they came in and told Nynaeve,

[00:22:22] the number of beads tell your price, and Nynaeve's like, oop, I'll take this little veil. But then Matt's like, I'll rock the one with all the beads. Dude, did you get his other joke, though? What? Which one? He was, like, flattering yourself, basically. Like, you're pricing yourself too high. Oh, yeah. I was like, damn, Matt. Cold. Ice cold. But then, yeah. Not for him, though. Right.

[00:22:47] Um, and I like, so that there's that, uh, saying that Elaine, she's trying to prove that, I guess she's studied the Tarabana accent, because what else did she do when she was hanging out alone in the palace? Right. And so she, when she's flirting with that guy in the episode, she says, the best secret to reveal is the face behind a lady's veil, which is straight from the book. And he responds, the most deadly is that of an illuminator spark.

[00:23:13] So, they're teasing me with the illuminators, but do you want to explain from non-book readers what illuminators are? They make booms. They make fireworks. Yeah. They make pretty booms go big boom. Yeah. And it's, it's like a very secret society. Like, they will not tell you how they do it. If you are an illuminator, you can't leave. It's a whole thing. Yeah. It's very hard to get in. Yeah. And there's an illuminator character named Eludra, who I'm losing faith in seeing, especially

[00:23:41] Leandrin's son's name's Eludrin. I'm like, you better not have, I would rather they not name any character or anything like that than tease me with a completely different character that has nothing in common other than being from Tenchiko with that name. You know that they were snickering saying, Alicia's going to be so mad about this. It was, it was specific and it was hurtful. We'll see. I'm still in clown mode. I'm like, well, maybe she'll meet someone named Eludra and say, reminds me of my son.

[00:24:14] Anyway, maybe not. I'm not going to say you're delusional. But you're getting there. You can suggest it. Yeah. Why do you think Elaine removed her veil? Well, like, and related to that, would people in Tenchiko really recognize her? I suppose there's paintings of her in places, but I'm not sure the, you know, like the average

[00:24:38] person on the street in Spain recognizes the princess of Denmark or, you know, Sweden, I should say. Especially prior to the advent of the photograph, right? And like worldwide news. Because I agree. I don't, I don't think it's super realistic that she'd be recognized, but maybe, maybe just because of like the red hair, that's a little bit of a giveaway. Yeah. That's yeah. You're either Aiel or a member of the Andoran royal family. And she's not Aiel. And she's not Aiel. Yeah.

[00:25:07] Because you can have a conversation with her and understand each other without weird Giotto references. Right. Without them randomly getting mad at you for asking a question. Oh, we'll talk about it later. But I liked, you know, Ran getting the, he did well enough. Yeah. That was, that was highest praise coming from Alhanda. I know. But it was nice in this part to see Nynaeve and Min together.

[00:25:34] I love how they're like mixing and matching the pairings. So it really starts to feel like they, they're pulling together as a group and it's not like Min's just Matt's friend. Right. Yeah. And I mean, like, this is already a group that wasn't really quite the Tanchico group. And I'm glad that they're, they're giving us these like, you know, you're surprising and delighting book readers. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, they're mixing it kind of with some stuff that took place in Ebudar, I guess. Yeah.

[00:26:05] Yeah. But yeah, I definitely, I squeed when I heard, I recognized Tom's voice through the crowd. As soon as Matt perked up, I was like, oh, I hear it too, Matt. With you, buddy. Oh, I didn't ask. Are you happy with his, his new patchy cloak? Yes. I am much happier with it. Again, he was hot topic Johnny Cash in season one. And I was not pleased. And, and, and much, much happier with him now. It wasn't the actor that I was displeased with.

[00:26:33] It was the writing and the design and stuff like that. So I'm glad that they've cleaned it up here. Okay. Um, it was a nice reference to this song he was singing. It was called the, the grave is no bar to my call in the books. That is, that is, uh, carved into the horn of Valir. So that's also why, yeah. Matt walks up. He's like, I'll tell you who blew the horn. He's literally just singing about the horn. Yeah. Right.

[00:26:59] And we also got that pickpocketing callback where, you know, Tom pickpocketed Matt in the first season. And now my have, how have the tables turned? That's right. Yeah. That's right. You got to watch out for Matt. New Matt. He's a different guy. So we talked a little bit about, I don't remember if we talked about it on or off the mic, but just the, I'll talk about it more with Mark, how the music does feel a little

[00:27:23] piped in with the Hills of 10 Chico song, but I did really enjoy that scene. Um, it did, it felt to me like an update of a song that would be in the book. And I felt like the whole breast shirt circling gesture that they did, uh, Robert Jordan would have been on board for that. You know, this is like, sorry, we didn't give you the topless, uh, you know, sea folk. Here we go. Well, we'll have some people shimmying their boobs. Yeah. Sorry, Robert Jordan.

[00:27:52] Uh, we have, we have this, uh, scene to write. There's going to be men and women. How should the dress be? Boobs. He's boobs. Make sure they cross their arms under their chest and huff. Pull on their braid. Yeah. Oh, but I, yeah. And I love the gesture also is like for everyone in the back to make sure you understand what the song's actually about. Um, yeah, but like I said, I'm, I, I am looking forward to, I'm glad Tom is with them now,

[00:28:21] you know, that it wasn't just, I was afraid it would just be something like, you know, Tom be like, Oh, Hey, you're still alive. Okay. Bye. You know? So I'm glad he's actually, he's joined the group. Okay. Whew. I'm relieved about that. Um, looking forward to more Tom Elaine interaction. And I, I'm assuming his ears perked up at Leandrin because she's the one who gentled his nephew away. Yep. I think, I think that's probably right. Yeah. Makes sense.

[00:28:51] Everybody hates Leandrin. Except Nynaeve. Nynaeve was a little sorry for her. She's, she's a little light. Yeah. I, and I liked that they added that complexity and that was good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we get Leandrin's motivation here too, which is, is interesting. Leandrin's, oh, oh yeah. With the, with that cold open. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like I am going to be a forsaken. Yeah. Oh, well, that's not in the cold open. That's later, but. Right. Um, anyway, I'm jumping all around Alicia.

[00:29:21] I'm all over the place today. Do you want to set up Nynaeve and Min's aside? Yes. Nynaeve and Min, meanwhile, bond over beers. Min sees a vision attached to other, to another patron in the bar that lets her know he's interacted with Jean. How am I supposed to say this now? Yeah. I keep struggling with that. Yeah. I think so. I, I, I listened to how they say it in the episode and then it goes like right out of my head. But Jane. Mm. There's so many vowels. Say all the vowels. Jane Sadai.

[00:29:49] Uh, the formerly green sister hiding out with Leandrin. Min tells him to pursue his crush so that they can find out where Leandrin's hideout is. The man tells him he's seen Jane around the old Lunalt estate. But after he walks away, she admits to Nynaeve that the visions he saw is of Jane killing him. Another older patron overhears the girls talking about Leandrin and tells them the whole Lunalt

[00:30:18] clan was wiped out recently. And it's rumored Leandrin did it herself, which of course she did. Ispan Shefar, one of the black Aja listens in on this whole exchange and she knows they've been found out. So, yeah, we, we talked about already. The man thinks it was her ghost. They're all like, they're like, oh yeah, they think Leandrin did the murders. He's like, it was her ghost. And they're like, okay, yeah, sure. Thanks. Bye. Actually, I think they said, come over and tell us about her.

[00:30:48] We'll bite you around. Yeah. I already said, I love that exchange between Min and Nynaeve where Min's like, you're scowling. It's suspicious. And she says, that's just my face. And she says, you'd make a really good, great, a really great Aja. Sadae. But man, Min, she just knowingly pushed a guy toward his death. Like she could have said afterwards, after she got the information she wanted, she could have said, actually, you know what? My vision has changed and I think you should avoid her.

[00:31:17] Honestly, though, I think this is part of Min's acceptance that like she can't change the visions. No, it's true. Right? Like if she can't change it, then why not just, you know, let him think something happy until it happens. Until he's, yeah, until he dies very unhappy. Yeah. Right. Well, Min and Nynaeve tipsily set out to find their friends, discovering Elaine's rendition of the Hills of Tanchico in full swing. Afterward, Matt introduces Tom.

[00:31:44] The Wonder Girls fill the others in on Leandrin's location. And as the group sets out to leave the market, Matt is stopped by the trader he was speaking to earlier, who hasn't found a collar, but has found the other cuff from the set. Matt, thanks. Yeah. Matt, thanks and pays the man and they take the cuff back to their inn, which I'm like, okay, very Tavirian energy that, yeah, it was just in this pile. And I thought maybe someday it would be worth something. And maybe you want it. We love it.

[00:32:14] I have to note that the Shang-Chan theme played a little bit at that moment, which I guess maybe is tied to the fact it's in Adom. Maybe other reasons. Probably. Yeah. I'm interested, you know, they're changing a bit of the lore here in the show. Like there was no, there was no like statue in Tanchico. No. Yeah. The shackled man of Tanchico, they call it in this. And there was only one bracelet in the show. No, there were two.

[00:32:41] I thought that there was only one, but I went back and looked it up and there are two. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Oh, well then I'm wrong. Two women to control a man because the men are stronger channelers. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. But interesting though, that they added this like connection to like, this is the part of the lore of Tanchico. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder. So they mentioned, we'll talk about it later. They mentioned the Panarchs Palace.

[00:33:07] I wonder if that will be somewhere where we see the shackled man of Tanchico statue in the background, which is apparently now only a man and the women are gone. But we saw Leandrin's drawing of that last episode, I guess. I thought that's what she was sitting in front of at the beginning. Oh, was that this episode? Yeah. That was at the beginning of this episode. Okay. She was sitting in front of it with her baby. Oh, of the draw. Oh, I missed that.

[00:33:35] I just meant when she was showing the other Black Aja members. Oh, no. I think when she collapsed, she collapsed in front of that statue. Oh, you're right. Okay. Okay. Okay. I didn't really. Okay. I didn't connect that. That was the same statue. Okay. That makes sense. Mm-hmm. Because now only the men's there, right? There's no women there anymore. Right. Right. Right. Right. I just wanted to shout out, by the way, when Min and Nynaeve come back and Elaine comes down, they're like, what happened to Settle?

[00:34:04] I assure you, I was blending in. Which just goes to say, like, Tenchico is a place where if you're making a scene and getting into fights and leading body choruses, then you look normal. Yeah. When Matt's like, ah, she's been scamming people with all these ransoms and she drank it all away. Everyone's like, yeah, that tracks. That tracks. Yeah. Like, oh, she really is a good old local girl. Can't a woman make an honest living anymore.

[00:34:35] Yeah. And Tom said that, by the way. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Should we take a quick break here and then come back and talk about what the Forsaken are up to? Yes. See you there.

[00:35:04] And we're back. We've got fodder for the Forsaken. Lanfear finds Leandrin in her dream, sitting in the Amarillin seat in the White Tower she secretly misses. With Ishmael now gone, Lanfear moves to take ownership of Leandrin's Oath to the Shadow before Robin can swoop in to sway her to his interests instead. As Lanfear suspects, he has done with the other members of Leandrin's Black Aja hideout.

[00:35:32] Lanfear demands that Leandrin find, interrogate, and kill Robin's mole. When Lanfear says he will have chosen someone who thinks they're clever, Leandrin knows it's former brown Aja's sister, Naomi. And she carries out Lanfear's orders. But not before questioning her about her rudimentary compulsion skills and information about their search that she may have been withholding from Leandrin. Naomi tells Leandrin that the collar is in the Panarch's palace before Leandrin tells her

[00:36:02] that she intends to be one of the Chosen herself and kills her. Ispan arrives to witness the final exchange and the murder of her ally as both she and Naomi were working for Robin. Can I also say like, did you notice that they're all calling the Forsaken the Forsaken and not the Chosen? Um, well in this exchange they called them the Chosen. Oh, they did say you chose on this one? Mm-hmm. There's, there's been a bunch of Black Aja saying Forsaken.

[00:36:31] That's what's been confusing me. Hmm. I mean, you've got to imagine for the Black Aja, like that's what they're used to. They can't go around, like what if they accidentally, it's better for them to accidentally call them the Forsaken, um, when they're in Black Aja land than to accidentally call them the Chosen when they're not in Black Aja land. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. All right, I buy it. You've convinced me. Um, I do like how Lanphir calls Leandrin out.

[00:36:59] Like, it's hard to feign obedience from the Amarlin seat. Yeah. Um, and also we get an explanation. Uh, Leandrin says to Lanphir, I did what you asked. I stayed in the tower as long as I could. So this explains why she went back to the tower and hung around there until, you know, she was called out rather than just running after, you know, handing over the girls in foam. Yeah.

[00:37:24] And this is new too, because she leaves as soon as she finds out that, uh, you know, the girls, the Wonder Girls are coming back in the books. Right. Exactly. And here she seemed surprised. She didn't seem to expect them to come back. Right. Um, and we find out that all of the Black Aja in the White Tower was loyal to a Shamayo, but, uh, now he's obviously, he's gone as of the last season finale.

[00:37:50] So now the remaining Forsaken are trying to snatch them up, um, Lanphir and Robin at least, because we've already talked about how Robin just likes to make friends with everybody. Quote unquote friends. He's the best buddy of everybody. Yeah. Until he wants to kill you, which is always. Right. Um. It's tough. Yeah. It's tough being, you know, it's tough making friends when you're so murderous. Mm-hmm.

[00:38:15] And it's cool to see Lanphir as a dreamwalker, um, because we're seeing also like what Egwene's potential might be in Teleron Rialt, which I'm just going to start calling Tar because it's easier. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, Lanphir is pretty, pretty terrifying, especially in the dream. You're like, oh, I don't know what to do with you know how to do. Yeah, exactly. And this is something that's called a talent. Like other people can enter Tar, but, uh, she has a talent that we've been told Egwene

[00:38:44] also has, but Egwene hasn't developed it yet. Uh, Lanphir has been working on hers for like 3000 years. Um, her talent is, is this dreamwalking. So that's something we're going to be talking about in more depth in this week's lore cast. Like what are these talents? What do they, what, you know, are the options on the table? What advantages do they give you? Et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Right. No, it's a good, it's a good thing to go through because there's a lot of, a lot of these random

[00:39:13] things where they're like, you are a XYZ. Yeah. Yeah. Another talent that we see being used in various different ways increasingly this season is compulsion, which is a big one. This, and we now know Landrin is trying to learn compulsion. Looks like, I mean, I guess we didn't see, we just saw her, we saw her do the weave and the weave looked good, but we didn't see her actually do any compulsion on Naomi. She just killed her. So, um, right. But what do you think?

[00:39:42] Landrin was asking Naomi about, you know, if there's more specific weeps to just remove certain memories. What do you think she wants to forget her son or something else? Or is it for someone else? Yeah. It might be her son. Like, I think she sees that as a weakness is this grief in this connection. So maybe, maybe she wants to be able to just erase that one memory. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I could buy that. Yeah.

[00:40:07] Um, and I'm sure you and I both did loyal Leo pointing meme when we heard the term Panarch's palace. Yeah. We're, we're going, we're going, I think. It's gotta be a finale location, right? Yeah. I hope so. I think that'd be fun. Yeah. They've definitely set up like all roads point to Panarch's palace right now. Right. Um, and just since you brought it up also, you said, you know, the chosen versus the forsaken. So the chosen is what the forsaken call themselves. The forsaken is what most people in the Westlands call them.

[00:40:37] And the IE will call them the shadow sold. And, you know, we might hear other names from other groups for them as well. Hmm. All right. So the star of this episode was one particular forsaken in, uh, do you want to set up what she's been up to? Sure. It's in Mogidion's web. Meanwhile, Mogidion pretends to be a servant of the black Aja household, tearing their undergarments

[00:41:04] and spitting in their food with every, uh, with relish every chance he gets. She overhears the black sisters discussing their hunt for a collar and an armband that match the armband Naomi still, uh, stole from the 13th depository. Uh, these items as demonstrated by the ancient ancient Tanshiko statue now in ruins work like the Shanshan Adams. My God, there's so many proper nouns here. I know. Uh, used to control channelers.

[00:41:34] Only this set is for two women to control a male channeler. They plan to find it and use it to capture the dragon reborn. So what did you think of Mogidion's behavior in general this episode? Hilarious. Absolutely. Like, man, those, those, first of all, her hairdo continues to like make me chuckle. Like it's just so like polite almost. Mm. Oh, that's, that's great. Thank you. Like to everybody.

[00:42:03] This like fake politeness is so amazing. I, there's just so much good subtle comedy in this. Mm. Mm. Oh my gosh. When she like chews up that food and spits it back into like the bread bowl. Oh my God. Uh, she's funny. Yeah. She's such a menace. Yeah. Um, and I have to wonder though, she's like hovering around the black asha. She must be compelling them not to notice how clearly interested she is in their conversations. Yeah.

[00:42:32] I think that's one of her maybe compulsion or maybe just like, she's very good at blending in. Yeah. Being like a gray man, because that's what the gray men that in the show version, version, she's the creator of the gray men. And what they do is blend into the shadows. So you don't see them. You don't notice them until it's too late. Right. You're right. As we've learned several times now. Yes. Yeah.

[00:42:57] So the whole male ADOM thing, which again, the ADOM, that's what, um, Egwene was fitted with when she was colored by the Shuncheon, uh, last season. So this is a male version and that is a thing from the books. There's a male version and it's a plot point similar to what we're seeing now. Um, but having that be older than the female version is new. So I'm curious about that. Like they say these statues are older than Tanchico.

[00:43:26] Whereas Tanchico is in the book, at least one of the oldest cities in the world. We talked about this a bit in the timeline episode that they also have some of the oldest memories in the world. So I'm very, I'm hoping in the finale, we go to the Panox palace and learn more about the history of Tanchico. I'm like, bring back Elaine, the tour guide. Elaine, the tour guide. Yeah. Uh, they need it. They need it because Matt is, uh, he's just fumbling into things. Yeah. Although he's the only one who found something so far. Yeah.

[00:43:56] No, he, I mean, his Tavirin-ness at least found it, but well, and he found Tom. So two things. He's, he's doing well here. He's collecting everything. Interesting. Yeah. He's not the one who lost it. Yeah, exactly. Although I'm, I'm sure that Mo Gideon would have had no trouble getting it from him. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure Nynaeve put up more of a fight than Matt would have. Right. Yeah. She was impressed with her. Well, let's get there, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to start before we get to that? There's. Yeah.

[00:44:24] Uh, Mo Gideon finds Ispan waiting in the world of dreams to meet with Robin and share all the juicy intel she's collected through her spying this episode. Mo Gideon tortures Ispan until she tells her everything. Instead, Leandrin wants to become a forsaken and two of the five, the dark one is hunting are in Tanchico. And then Mo Gideon kills her anyway, which kills Ispan in the waking world as well. So, yeah, two of the five, that means obviously Matt and Nynaeve because, and the other three would be Rand, Perrin and Egwene.

[00:44:54] So these are the five from the two rivers. And I'm a little confused about how are they having. I guess they did talk about being like, like Dana in the first season talks about being visited in her dreams by the dark one. But in the books, at least, and it's kind of implied in the TV show, that was Ishamael pretending to be the dark one. So is it Ishamael who passed out these instructions and then died? Because they knew one of them was a dragon.

[00:45:23] And now it's known which one is the dragon, but they're still looking for all five. Although they are all important. Yeah. I think they've come to the realization that they need to take out all these people. They all have a part to play in the light side. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you and I know from the books that there are ways that the dark one can make his wishes known. Mm-hmm. Or its wishes. I don't know if the dark one is even gendered.

[00:45:47] They usually use male pronouns, but it's, you know, it's not like it's an otherworldly being, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's what we saw through that boar in episode four. Right. Like wah, wah, wah, wah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't think we can say much more about like how the dark one communicates at this point. Yeah. He communicates in dubstep. You said dubstep? Yeah. Oh my God. Wah, wah, wah.

[00:46:18] Drop the bass. I used to listen to dubstep so much when it came out. I mean, it was cool then. It was a lot of fun. And I had a girlfriend who really liked folk music and I wasn't into folk music yet, even though that ended up being like one of my main things. She was like, how can you like this noise and not my music? And I was like, I'm just, I'm just chilling with my dubstep. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Dubstep is obviously, I was in my twenties.

[00:46:46] So dubstep was a, I, but I was in my twenties and basically when we went to clubs, it was either, um, indie rock or dubstep. Yeah. That's, that sounds like the 2010s. Yeah. So, okay. So just to check in on the Black Aja hideout since we, we lost a couple members today, may they rest in the shadow.

[00:47:11] Um, so we still have, of course, Leandrin Garale, formerly Red, who is the ringleader. We lost Naomi of the Brown who betrayed Varen and wiped Adelaus' mind. Um, she's the only one of this crew that is a new name for the show who wasn't in the books. So this is why I did find it funny later when Mogetian went in and she's like asking Elaine all these questions and Elaine starts reciting their names. And she's saying, we know all the first and last names of the others because they're book characters.

[00:47:40] Naomi, we never learned her last name. And so she's like, it's been Shafar Giancada, Naomi. And then, um, Mogetian shuts her up just then. So we still never hear Naomi's last name. I feel like the show runners are like, we just can't think of another one. There's too many names on this. We, we, uh, we don't want to throw out more at you. So that's enough. Um, anyway, so yeah, Landfear, I'm sorry, Landfear. Leandrin killed Naomi. So RIP Naomi.

[00:48:10] And then we had Ispan Shefar, the blue sister who was spying throughout this episode. Uh, she in the books at least is also from Tarabon, Mike Landrin. But yeah, so she's also known for wearing her hair and braids. That's a whole thing in the book. People from Tarabon wear their hair and braids. Um, but yeah, this time Mogetian killed her. And oh my gosh, that was, that was a brutal kill, but especially Mogetian's face and the like glee on it while she did it.

[00:48:39] I think they've done a really good job in the show. And I, I think, you know, there, there are a few things that I think the show has improved on the books with just because of lack of time. But one thing they have really done well on the show compared to the books is make the forsaken separately and distinctly scary. They've given them all more personality than they had in the books. Hmm. I mean, Mogetian was always my favorite forsaken from the books, but here, yeah, she's just completely unhinged and I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:08] Um, so yeah. So that leaves two more Black Aja members along with Leandra in this hideout together. And that's the green one, Jan Keita, who's the one they keep referring to in this episode as having the white streak in her hair. And she's also the one who enjoyed her waters dying in episode one. She, by the way, happens to be Domani like Leanna. Um, and that, you know, she's from Aradoman, the country.

[00:49:32] And the last one is Chesmal Emery, a, who formerly of the Yellow Aja, who's from Geldon, like Loghain. And, uh, so just, those are the three are still around. Leandrin, Jean, Jean, Jean, and Chesmal. Wow. So we're, we're dwindling numbers here. Mm-hmm. Dwindling numbers. Although they know there must still be one in the tower. Right. And it's not Elida. It's not Elida. Mm-hmm. That's true.

[00:50:03] I know people are thrown off by that because they're like, wait, can you use the weapon as a power? Like, yes, if it's a dark friend. Yes. Yes. The oaths specifically say that if it's a dark friend, you can attack. Right. Yeah. Uh, all right. Do you want to set up the Moghideon's last stringing of her web? The best part, I would say. Yeah. Moghideon then goes to visit Nynaeve and Elaine in their room. She places them under total compulsion, making them eager to please her in any way they can.

[00:50:33] They tell her they are too accepted alone, without any full eyes to die. They tell her about the bracelet they've acquired, and they bring it to her. Nynaeve fights her compulsion, clinging to it, but Moghideon is ultimately stronger, and she takes the bracelet. She promises to come back and see them again, and leaves the Wonder Girls with a headache, but no memory of what just happened, or how they lost the bracelet, but also with a deep scratch on Nynaeve's face.

[00:50:59] I just think the whole way that they blocked and acted this scene was perfect, from the moment she does the compulsion, and they both, in this coordinated movement, fold their hands on their laps at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. And I love when they, I don't remember what they didn't know, but they didn't have the answer to a question. They were like, oh, we don't know, but we tell you if we did. Like, they were so eager. Yeah, like, where Rand is, or something like that. Yeah, something like that. Hmm.

[00:51:29] Um, and we learned in this that Robin is the one who asked Moghideon to send Graymen after Elaine, so that's why she was targeting them. Which, I mean, shouldn't, like, Robin's a forsaken, it's expected behavior. But I'm like, but after that heart-to-heart, you had an episode, too? Hmm. Hmm. Like, he even tricks me. Well, he is Trixie, and he, you know, he's like, she's a problem. Hmm.

[00:51:55] And you can see, there's, it almost seems like Robin and Moghideon have something romantic going on, but very, very much in a, um, I don't know, trans, I don't want to say even transactional, but definitely, like, not something steady. And she says, I like it when he doesn't get what he wants. That sounds healthy. Hmm. Oh, yeah. The Forsaken are known for their mental health. Yeah. But who is known?

[00:52:24] I hope the Nynaeve stans cheered when Nynaeve resisted. Yeah, I, look, I started the series being so pissed at Nynaeve, like, in the books when I started reading the books. And I think most people do, because she's very frustrating at the beginning of the books. And, but then you get, you get further down and, like, Nynaeve's growth, I think she has one of the best character arcs. Uh, because I, I am, like, rooting for her more and more as we go on. Yes. Yeah.

[00:52:51] And I, I mean, I, she's someone who in the books, there's a certain point when, like, she does annoy me at first, and there's a point where I start to understand her and she's awesome. And this is the thing, like, but I know Nynaeve is one of the top favorite characters in the entire series amongst book fans. So, um, yeah, a lot of people will, like, there's a lot of people who will talk crap on Egwene. I'm like, Egwene's my girl, come on.

[00:53:17] I think they both have, and this is something that Robert Jordan does so well. This is, I think, the, the hallmark of the Wheel of Time is just that, like, it's not just, like, you have a group of powerful friends coming together. You have these people with different strengths and weaknesses that all, like, compensate for each other. And they all, they're all good at different things. And, and they feel so unique. And Egwene and Nynaeve have always felt so distinct for me. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's interesting.

[00:53:42] We'll talk about this more in our Talents Lorecast, but just the fact that in this show, in the books, um, a channeler can sense the relative power of another channeler of the same gender. In this show, they've only shown that in very specific certain cases to the point where I wonder if it's considered a talent in the show. But if it is considered a talent, Mogedian has that talent because she makes the comment here, like, ooh, you're both strong, especially you, Nynaeve. Right.

[00:54:10] I think this is when she starts to mark Nynaeve, you know, the fact that Nynaeve is clearly so strong in the power, and especially the fact that Nynaeve resists her, resists her compulsion. This is, uh, Mogedian now has a special target on Nynaeve's back, I think. And what does she want to use her for? That's the question. Like, recruit her? Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, maybe.

[00:54:34] I mean, so my question, she left the scratch on Nynaeve's face, which is, you know, she's erased the memory of her being there, although she let them remember she came to the door and then she was looking somewhere else. So then I'm like, okay, are they going to recognize her face next time they see her, even, you know, not under compulsion because they, she did let them remember coming to the door. But then, of course, they not only remember her coming to the door, but after that incident, they had headaches and Nynaeve has a massive scratch on her face.

[00:55:04] So it's like she wants them in a way to remember her. I think she wants them to feel fear, too, is like what happened to us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And now the bracelet's gone. Right. But I think that's part of Mogedian's motivation is just to feel, she likes to see other people afraid of her. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Just a sort of a terror that they can't pinpoint. Right. Which makes her a terrifying villain, and that's why she's such a good character. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:34] Yeah, I did like that she outright asked Nynaeve while she was under compulsion, why did you block yourself? And she said, I'm afraid of it, my power. And then Mogedian responds, in my time, we would have beaten that out of you. Do you think she means in the age of legends? Or do you think she means in or after the war of power, they would have beaten that out of someone? I think she means the age of legends. I think that they were very like, oh, you're going to block yourself? Bye.

[00:56:02] I mean, she's saying beat, like, that they would beat someone down until they broke. Right. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, we questioned, did the age of legends have a darker undercurrent? The age of lemons. The age of lemons, yeah. It's a legendary age. It's just all lemon meringue. I wouldn't complain. No. I mean, honestly, that would be a dessert in the age of legends.

[00:56:28] But did it have a darker undercurrent than the stories tell, you know? Right. In the stories, it's like this magical past where everything was glorious in utopia. But is that ever really reality? Yeah. And, like, we had these trees that were literally, like, basically drugging people to feel euphoria, right? Like, so, were people just feeling that? It's like, it's very, like, ready player one, right?

[00:56:56] Like, everyone's just in this amazing video game, but they're living in, like, crazy poverty. Hmm. Yeah, I mean, at least, I guess, at that time in the age of legends, there was plentiful food because they would just do the crop singing and then harvesting and, you know, repeat, rinse and repeat. Always enough food. Yeah. Hmm. All right, should we switch gears to the Two Rivers? Yeah, let's do it. The Two Rivers Medicine.

[00:57:26] Picking up after the confrontation with the White Cloaks last week, Perrin has returned to town with a bad stab wound. But the only eyes to die on sight, Alana, is even more gravely injured. So magical healing is currently not an option. However, now that it has been revealed that Matt's younger sisters can channel both, it turns out, Alana guides them to open themselves to the source. And she links with them using their power and her healing knowledge to heal herself.

[00:57:54] So, yeah, they left that reminder. I said, I can only heal others, not themselves. But I love how even when they're like, Alana's dying, I'm like, Alana's not dying. Right. But still, Maxim says to her, like, you know it's bad because he's like, Alana, here, look, they want to thank you. You left getting thanked. That made me laugh. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, but I was like, they've given you too much screen time. You're not getting killed.

[00:58:27] Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I worry if they give someone a lot of screen time, that means that they are setting them up to die. Nah, not in the show. I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I have, I had a problem. So, I watched this and then I talked with a friend who had not seen this and I could not tell about this episode, but who had, you know, seen episode five and was theorizing about how Alana would be healed.

[00:58:52] And he said, oh, she'll link with, he thought it would be one of the sisters because surprise, apparently they both can channel. That's a slight change for the books, but not a big deal. And yeah, it said, okay, so she'll link with the sister and heal herself. And so just knowing that someone predicted that made me feel a little bit better about it. But yeah, we talked about it. Hand wave, hand wave, fine, fine, fine. Yeah. I mean, like, again, I don't need Alana to be out of commission for the next seven episodes.

[00:59:22] Like, totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this also just shows that, so apparently both of Matt's sisters can channel. In the books, it's just Boda, the older one. And then the younger sister, Eldrin, is just kind of left behind and you don't hear much from her anymore. But I guess it makes sense. Why not just, like, have them both together throughout whatever happens next in their stories? Right. And I think in the books, we find that out because she, like, shows up at the tower and Matt's there and he's like, what the fuck is this? Yeah.

[00:59:50] Because Alana and Viren had gone to the Two Rivers recruiting, similar to now, but of course. They've taken that from the books is the reason for being there. Yeah. Yeah. And it seems now Alana and Maxim, you know, they just needed a near-death experience to get over their shit. And hopefully they are stronger than ever going into whatever happens next in the Two Rivers because it's not looking good. We had a traumatic experience together and all our problems are gone. That's how TV works. Mm-hmm.

[01:00:22] Do you want to set up what's going on with Perrin? Yes. In the meantime, Perrin lays low at the Winespring Inn to recover and Fahil keeps him company. Fahil tells him that she joined the hunt for the horn to escape her military family after her mother revealed herself to be a dark friend. And asks Fahil to join the shadow. Fahil's brother died defying her. Perrin, in turn, tells her everything. He accidentally killed his wife in battle. He's discovered he's a wolf brother.

[01:00:51] He is friends with the dragon reborn and Matt already found and blew the horn of Aalir. With all their darkest personal secrets off their chest, Fahil and Perrin begin making out until a freshly healed Alana interrupts them to ask if Perrin would like to be healed as well. Yeah, I was saying, so I was listening to Fahil's story and I'm like, yep, Saldea, yep, yep, yep. Military family, Perrin's are generals. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Wait, what?

[01:01:20] Your mother is a dark friend? So what do you think of that? You said that like her sister was a witch, bro. Um, and by the way, Fahil's an only child in the books too. So do you think we're going to meet her parents? And what did you think about this whole exchange in her story? I think she's lying. I think she's lying. Why do you think she's lying?

[01:01:48] I mean, why do you think she would lie? What would be her motivation is what I meant. I think she's someone who keeps everything guarded if she can. And she's letting Perrin in a little bit, but not all the way yet. Okay. Which is unfair because he straight up told her like everything. He was like, let me start with my deepest secret and then we'll work back from there. First of all, I'm a murderer. Second, how are you? Um, yeah, I, I did.

[01:02:17] I did enjoy when she's like, you let me go on and on about the horn. And he's just like, interrupts over the kiss. And I'm like, yeah, all right. All right. Fine. Very TV hand wavy. Fine. That was very cute though. That was very cute. She's like, I'm out here looking like a dumb ass looking for something that's already been found. And he's like, yeah, well, um, yeah.

[01:02:36] And I also liked the exchange they had where Perrin is of course, very upset about Natty Cawthon dying and fail says, my father always said a leader can either take care of the living or weep for the dead. So when I guess that's a good lesson, we got some hard truths coming out the, uh, the, the trio of boys from the two rivers this season. Yeah. Yeah. Because Elaine gave Rand kind of an extra lecture about that kind of thing too. Yeah.

[01:03:06] Um, and I just want to point out loyal's around too, but I wish he was being given more to do. Yeah. I think he's been in an appropriate amount of time. Like I, I'm not like I need more loyal. Hmm. I love loyal. I just, I, I think he's best when you sparingly. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right.

[01:03:30] So then, um, meanwhile, the white cloaks swallowed by the shadow, former peddler, Patton Fane is seen overlooking his old two rivers stomping around with Trollocs by his side. Later, he enters the white cloak camp disguised as the backup scene coming through the mountains. Last episode, covered in blood. Fane tells Valda is the result of them running into some trouble with Trollocs on the way. He, of course, doesn't tell him that the Trollocs were on his side.

[01:03:57] The shadow has officially infiltrated the white cloak camp. Later, fail fail, Fane and Chiad are scouting and they witness an army of hundreds of Trollocs pouring through the way gate near the two rivers. Bum, bum, bum. Hmm. Yeah. I like Fane going, Fane going, Fane, Fane going, uh, it's all cool, guys. You know, it's all cool bruskies. Like, I definitely didn't take these uniforms off your dead soldiers.

[01:04:27] There's, uh, just because there's fatal wounds in these. Yes. Don't worry about it. This is Trolloc blood, not the blood of your soldiers. Yep. Yep. And it's just, you know, you don't recognize a single face in our troops because we were just have always been stationed in different places. Just very community. Yeah. We buy it. Even, yeah, Valda even looks a little bit skeptical. But at the same time, he's probably going to be like, well, I need Paradai Barra.

[01:04:56] So if you get me him, you're in. Yeah. And Fane's like, done. Done deal. Let's do it. Handshake emoji. Um, I like, we got Fane's characteristic whistle when we first see him, uh, so that you recognize him even though he shaved his head. Hmm. I like the same look of his. He looks better, I think. Yeah. No, I mean, he looks, yeah. I mean, they're definitely going a different direction with him than they did in the books. But that's okay. I'm cool with that.

[01:05:25] Yeah, he's a lot more unhinged in the books. Yeah. But that's, like you said, it's fine. I actually think they could do more with him in the show than they did in the books. Yeah. I mean, they gave him this also this whole complex story with stuff that happened in Shadar Lagoth, but we didn't even see him there. So it's just, yeah, it's just a lot of things. Right. Um, and yeah. So shall we take another quick break and then come back and check in on the waste? Yeah.

[01:06:17] Take it away. Dangerous Dreams. I like your titles, Alicia. They're very nice. Thank you very much. Egwene confesses to the Wise Ones that she's been exploring Teleron Riod, or Tar for simplicity, on her own and tells them about her confrontations with Lanfear. They are disappointed to learn that Egwene has been lying to them by omission, letting them believe she is a full Aes Sedai.

[01:06:43] They tell her she is trying to do too much too quickly, but continue to help her in her training. She needs to strengthen her mental abilities as the strongest, clearest imagination wins in Tar. They tell her to avoid the experienced and skilled Lanfear and Tar itself, but draw her instead into her own dreams, where Egwene has the most power. But Lanfear manages to pull Egwene into Tar for another confrontation.

[01:07:10] Egwene points out that Ren would be very unhappy with Lanfear if he knew she was tormenting Egwene in her sleep. And Lanfear lies and says he already knows. He knows everything. Before Egwene is saved once again by the drop of a pin that wakes her. Egwene continues training more determined than ever. Meanwhile, Lanfear finds Moraine, who has been hiding from her in her own dream.

[01:07:35] Lanfear notices that Moraine is afraid of her after her trip through the rings of Rodeon. And chides Moraine for not keeping Egwene away from Rand well enough. She tells her she's sending Rand a little surprise and to let him handle it. So yeah, Moraine, of course, saw Lanfear killing her over and over in the rings. So that would explain her being a bit cagey.

[01:07:57] But I have to say, there are definitely book fans who are not happy to see Moraine working so consciously with Lanfear. What do you think? I'm kind of with them. I think I could have, I kind of bought it the first time when she's like, oh, let me just scare them. But this ongoing relationship, I think, is not really in her character. Yeah. Because how much can you work with the dark without becoming one of the dark friends?

[01:08:26] And I don't think very much. At this point, I think we're supposed to interpret it as her being too afraid of Lanfear. But I just considering we'll talk in a moment about the conversation Rand and Moraine have. But I can't imagine Moraine not at least trying to tip him off in some way. Yeah. I do think it's out of character for her. Okay. Well, Rand is growing.

[01:08:55] Avienda continues to fulfill her duty to educate Rand about the Aiel. She takes him to the main gardens of Cold Rock's Hold, where they see Ruark's great daughter, Alcera, tending to some plants. And yeah, so we get these vertical gardens in shady parts of the rock. What did you think of the gardens? I thought they were nice. I want to say it was on your episode with Mark that one of you said like, oh, I think Mark said it. Like, the Aiel don't really grow food, you know? Well, of course, they have to make food. Yeah.

[01:09:24] They're not really farmers. They're more like gatherers. And I was like, I wonder if that's true. In my head, I was like, I wonder if that's true. But here we see they are growing food. Yeah. Which makes sense. I guess they have to get it from somewhere. I don't think they really talk about Aiel farming like this in the books, though. And obviously, Mark and I had that conversation before this episode. We saw this, so. Right. Yeah, I think maybe because of Dune, they're like, we have to do more world building here. We have to make sure that we know where they poop, where they eat.

[01:09:53] Yeah, next time, season finale is going to be the latrines of, sorry, Cold Rock's Hold. You have to clean my latrine as your toe. Or I have to say, the internet points go to you. I was convinced it would be El Cardal this episode. I was obviously wrong. You're right. It'll be the finale. Yeah, I think it has to be the finale. That's such a big moment.

[01:10:16] I think next week, just to set expectations from what we've heard, we're going to get one location next week for, I think, probably the whole episode, similar to how episode four was one location. And then for the finale, we'll get the other three locations from this season. Yeah, I think because the episode titles are public. So I would just say if you want to get a hint, I think, and again, neither of us have watched it, so these aren't spoilers. But if you want to get a hint of what we think might be happening next episode, just look at the episode titles online.

[01:10:46] I don't want to spoil them here. Yeah. Yeah, and if you're a book reader, then it's like, oh, okay. Right.

[01:10:54] So I just want to point out the little girl, Alcera is her name, and this is an Easter egg pulled from the books where there is a wise one from another clan who's, she's only mentioned in one chapter in the Shadow Rises, which is basically the wise ones are going around through, you know, as Bear made mention of in the last episode,

[01:11:17] the wise ones went around to like the other wise ones in their dreams to say, okay, we need to gather up the clan chiefs and talk about this whole Karakarn thing. And one of the women they stopped by was a woman who cannot channel or dreamwalk, and her name is Alcera. So that was a fun Easter egg. Yeah, deep cut Easter egg. And I had to double check after I heard her just the way and again, I cannot do accents. I'm not going to try to mimic her, but just the way she was a grand author. Lord, these are my squashes.

[01:11:47] Do you see how fit they get? And I'm like, she sounds so Dutch. And I looked it up and she is Dutch. Oh, that's funny. So they got these two Dutch actors speaking in English together. Yeah. So it's cute. Apparently, they were speaking Dutch on set together and that like puts her at ease with him. And so I'm sure that contributes a bit to their, you know, camaraderie that we see on screen. Yeah. Well, that's fun. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:12:12] But it's also cute to see how watching Rand interact with Alcera made Avienda's face soften. Yeah. She's kind of seeing him more as a human now that he's learning the ways and he's interacting with her people. She's like, all right, he fits in a little bit. Yeah. He's trying. He's trying. Yeah. Um, the interaction that you mentioned earlier where, you know, she was like, you, you did good enough or something. Uh, it was basically he picked up Alcera's spear and she said, no, that's my spear. You can't touch it.

[01:12:41] I'm training to become a maiden. You dishonor me, Randall Thor. And, um, he's, he's learning the aisle way. So he says for dishonoring your G, you have my toe. So basically he's saying he, uh, besmirched her honor by touching her weapon without her permission. And so he ha he has an obligation to her and she says that his obligation is you will harvest my garden when they are ripe. Only then will your toe be repaid.

[01:13:07] So I feel like we're going to be seeing like the most heartbreaking harvesting of that garden. Oh, you're right. Oh no. Why'd you have to tell me that? Sorry. Sorry. It's going to be crying over squashes. I'm already crying over them. Yeah. Um, do you want to set up this conversation with Moraine? Later, he and Moraine have a private conversation. She admits she saw every version of Rand in the Rings of Rodeon.

[01:13:36] Yes, the ugly, but also the good. He tells her he recognizes the Sakarnin Sangreel she's holding from his own visions. The Sakarnin helps Moraine draw an overwhelming amount of power. A power Rand can draw naturally without a Sangreel. She asks him how he handles it. Women are taught to submit to the power while men are taught to wrestle the power into submission. He tells her not to submit. Rand says he would be swallowed up by the power if he didn't fight it constantly.

[01:14:06] Demonstrating what happens when he doesn't get the power out as the earth around them begins shaking until Moraine snaps him back to reality. We see Lan has been secretly listening to this conversation. Yeah, when the camera did that pullback thing where it's like somebody's listening, I'm like, oh, God, oh, God, oh, God. And then I saw it was Lan. I was like, oh, phew. Okay. Lan can hear anything they're talking about anyway. I don't know why he needs to be secretive about it.

[01:14:36] Yeah, I don't know. I feel like sometimes Moraine is weird about what Lan can hear. Hmm. Yeah, but it's good that Lan stays tuned in for both of their sakes because he's out of the three of them, he's definitely the most level-headed. Yeah, definitely. Although he can be kind of a whiny baby. I'm going to be honest. He might be one of the whiniest people on the show. How so? I don't want it. He's really Jon Snowing for me this season. Like, oh, yeah, it's gone. And I don't want it.

[01:15:06] You know what I mean? Like, it's a little amount sometimes. But that's very much from the books. I think he's having a lot of fun. I know. I'm not blaming the show. I'm just saying he's a whiny little baby. Okay. Okay. All right. Just a reminder for anyone who's, like, has their head swirling from all these proper nouns. The sangreal, again, like the sarkarnin that Moraine has, it's a tool that magnifies the amount of power you can channel. So we saw Moraine using it in the cold open for episode five.

[01:15:34] And then, so that's like her power magnified. I don't know. How many times? Do you think like a hundred times or something? A bunch. Like, I think the biggest display of power we saw from her before was probably in the first episode when she calls down the thunder from the sky. Yeah, that's probably right. And then this is at least like, I don't know, 50 to a hundred times more.

[01:15:58] And then Rand, when we see him completely start gulping up power in this episode, it's even more than Moraine with the sarkarnin. Yeah, and I'll say, like, I don't think it's true that, like, I think they make clear that, like, male channelers are by default, like, a little bit more powerful than female channelers. But his is not just because he's a male channeler. It's because he's a dragon reborn. Yeah.

[01:16:23] And, yeah, I don't, I think it's really interesting because we are talking about Cidar versus Cidian here. And I'm interested to see how the show handles that because it is true that women are taught to submit to the power and men are taught to wrestle it and take control of it.

[01:16:44] And we can see that there are perhaps some gendered implications to that that reflect our own patriarchy and the way that women and men are taught to handle situations. But in the book, it's basically told, like, yeah, that's how these two halves of the power work. Like, you can't change that. Like, no matter how hard you try, you're never going to successfully channel if you do the opposite with your, you know, what you should do with the opposite power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:17:12] So, so again, Cidar is what the female half's called. Cideen is the male half. That's the tainted half. But Rand says it's the one power. And if you and the Forsaken have taught me anything, it's that the Aes Sedai don't know any, don't know everything about it. So that does leave some wiggle room. I suppose they're buying themselves some wiggle room to interpret it differently. But I do find it interesting that here Rand is saying when you have that much power, don't submit to it.

[01:17:37] And then on the other hand, Nynaeve was just told last episode by Coeen. She's like, you know, you are trying to be in control too much. You need to submit to it more. Right. So maybe it's not about. That's the question. Like, who's right? Maybe more. Or maybe it's about balance. Balance and the Force. Oh, my God. Cut it out, Obi-Wan. All right. During a setup, shall we take turns talking through the deadly confrontation? Sure.

[01:18:07] Egwene goes to confront Rand about sleeping with the Forsaken. He apologizes for not being honest with her, but admits that he's in love with Lanfear. Well, he does that little shy-like, I'm not going to end you in question. And in return, Egwene tells him the full truth that Lanfear has been attacking her in her dreams. Just then, the Forsaken Samael arrives with the Shido Aiel. The surprise, Lanfear said she was sending Rand.

[01:18:33] Samael calls Rand lose Theron and tells him he's gotten soft. Then Avienda shows up to fight, channeling swords of fire. She stops Samael from killing Rand, but then Samael knocks her and Egwene out. But Rand stands up and coolly channels a stream of lightning, bringing down the building to bury Samael. But the young girl, Alcera, Ruark's granddaughter, greatdaughter, sorry, was upstairs, and she accidentally crushed...

[01:19:03] She's accidentally crushed in the rubble. Rand, desperate to save her, calls upon the full breaths of his power, an angry sea of red energy clouded with black corruption, and he funnels all that power into the young girl. But she's already gone, and even the dragon can't bring her back. Sorry. So, yeah. That was a brutal way to end, but I was really taken by that.

[01:19:33] That was like, I had to sit for a moment and take it in after the episode was over. It was very, very dark, but I said this to you last night. I had watched it last night, and I sent you a message, and I was like, it was very dark, but also necessary, and I'm glad they did it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because that's a big moment for Rand's character is like, yeah, sure, the prophecies are like, you can do anything, but you can't. You can't. Right. You can't bring back the dead. Right.

[01:19:58] Yeah, and Rand, we see him like, butting up against where he's been mostly humble for the most part up to this point, but here in his absolute desperation, he says, I can do anything. What does the prophecy say? I bring destruction, but also creation.

[01:20:13] So, you can see, you know, the nice shepherd boy is also holding back a megalomaniac fueled by this vast, you know, vast power that's constantly beating at his door. Yeah, and you hear him say that, and you're like, oh, that can't be good. Yeah. Not a good situation.

[01:20:37] I do want to point out also, Avienda says here, life is a dream from which we all must wake, which is obviously, it is an Aiel saying. It is interesting that the Aiel, they are the dreamwalkers, they are the ones who are most overall skilled in dreamwalking, but yet they refer to life as a dream from which we all must wake. Right. Very interesting. Very interesting. I've always liked that saying.

[01:21:03] I think I told my wife that saying once from when I was reading the Wheel of Time, she was like, boo. And I was like, well, I guess things affect us differently. Yeah. I mean, I guess there's something like sad in it also, but also maybe comforting too. To be honest, it's like, it goes along with the simulation theory, you know, that we live in a simulation. And sometimes that's comforting to me. I'm like, yeah, none of this is real. And then we're going to wake up and it's utopia. Right? Right?

[01:21:31] I don't think anyone promised that last part. Oh. But hey, so this is our first time seeing Avienda channel. So that must have been a revelation for a bunch of people. Yeah. Everybody was like, why is she going to be a wise one? And I was like, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's why she was called by the wise ones. But she channels two swords. I was surprised by that. Why swords? Yeah. That's interesting. Or were they spears and they just kind of looked like swords?

[01:22:01] I don't know. I mean, the blades looks like long and sharp or I don't know. I don't know. That was interesting. Let's roll it back. Maybe I need to look more closely. Yeah. I'm going to rewatch that again. But I did back it up and I was like, are those swords? Anyway. Anyway, yeah, we talked a bit about what is Lanfear's goal in sending Samael? Like, is she trying to twist Ran's heart with hate by forcing him to do something she knows that will make him feel awful?

[01:22:31] Or is she trying to push him to move for Kalindor faster to stop the other forsaken? What do you think? I think she knows that to get him on her side, he needs. Sorry. I feel like I'm mixing up the pronouns here. I'm going two different ways.

[01:22:50] I feel like Lanfear knows that to get Ran on her side, to make Ranfear a real thing, she's got to incriminate him a little bit. She's got to get his hands dirty. Because right now she's the only one with unclean hands. And she did it, right? Like he killed a little girl accidentally. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:23:14] Like she keeps trying to convince him that he has this dark side that no one will ever love except for her. So I think she's trying to... No one's ever used that line before. No, no. First gaslighter in history. What did you think of Samael's magic hammer? That was cool. Yeah. I was like, all right, Gimli. Let's move on here. It was fine. I wasn't bothered by it.

[01:23:39] We do do a lot more of the channeling into physical objects, which I think is kind of weird because Leandrin went on a whole thing about how that will slow you down and honestly be less powerful last season. But I don't know. Maybe she's wrong. But I guess, yeah, they want to keep it visually varied. I don't hate it. Also, I guess if Samael's goal is not to kill Rand here, he can just have fun. Right. Yeah. And Samael, he is the military forsaken.

[01:24:08] So that also explains how he looks. But I guess we'll hold off on talking about his background further because they haven't really established it. And it might be different from the books. But he's definitely not dead, I would say. It takes a lot more than a collapsed building to kill a forsaken. Right. Although, who knows? Sometimes the forsaken, you know, all you have to do to Ishmael is stab him.

[01:24:32] With the power rod sword that Rand wielded and Ishmael wanted to die and I don't know. All right. Other factors. All right. Fine. So I guess, can we call it our Egwene and Rand officially over now? I hope so. Again, we didn't ever need to have that. I disagree. I disagree. I was not for it from the beginning. I completely disagree and I'll talk about more why in the White Tower section.

[01:25:01] I'll bury it. I'll bury the relationship. You can give the eulogy and I'll just handle the grave digging. Okay. Okay. But okay. But in this part that we can talk about publicly, Egwene says she came to the waist for Rand. But I think Rand, he rightfully points out that she, it's like, yeah, you came here for me. But then as soon as the wise one said, we can teach you a special skill, you're like, bye. Right.

[01:25:28] And it is also true in the first season, it started out by her telling him that she was choosing being a wisdom over him before they even left the two rivers. Because wisdom couldn't marry. And then she was choosing to be an Aes Sedai over being with him. Well, she wanted him to be her warder when she was an Aes Sedai. But now that he's a dragon reborn, well, that's a bit more than a warder. Right. Yeah. He's not really free to do that. He's got his own stuff going on. Yeah.

[01:25:55] I mean, and I like that he wasn't just like, well, why wouldn't you prioritize me? He's like, I have loved that about you, that you are always trying to move to the next thing. It's just like, that's why we can't be together. Yeah. I'm the dragon reborn and I'm still not enough. I'll always respect that about you. Which is interesting. I'll always respect that about you. So, hmm. Laying a foundation for it's over, but it's not like, it's complicated now.

[01:26:23] But it's not like they are bitter enemies, which I'm glad. You know, that's such a trope. Yeah. Call Avril Lavigne. Because it's complicated. But she also, she twists a knife in it as well, where she can't believe that he would choose Lanphier over her, knowing that Lanphier is a forsaken. And she says, he's already succumbed to the madness. And he says, if that's easier for you to believe, but that had to hurt him.

[01:26:54] But I was also at that point, I was so screaming at her to, I'm like, just tell him Lanphier is torturing you. So I'm glad that she did. How do you think Ran's going to respond next time he sees Lanphier now that he has this new information? Oh, I think he's going to break up with her. You think it's Denzos? Because he'd be like, I thought you had changed and you didn't. Mm-hmm. Because you know that when he's like, oh, you don't understand everything. But to Egwene, he was going to be like, he's thinking in his head about the mirror and stuff. And like how she acted as Selene and stuff like that.

[01:27:24] Yeah. And Egwene's like, no, you don't understand. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, and any other thoughts on the episode? On the episode? I mean, I just, I didn't realize we got to the end. I was like, wait, what? I thought it was great. I thought it was really great. I think, you know, more set up, but still like big character moments.

[01:27:50] And that's the strength of the Wheel of Time is these big character moments, these relationships. And they're doing it. So I'm all on board. Yeah. I think out of the, we've seen six episodes of this season so far, this one would be in the middle, which is a good place to be. Because, you know, like obviously number four is at the top, followed by the first couple. And then probably this one, which is, you know, like really in a strong season, this was a strong episode. Especially the ending.

[01:28:20] And Tanchiko. Yeah. Loving the music. And pairing and feel. Yeah. And the music. Yeah. I'm very excited to, we only have access now because we've been being good and watching only one at a time. We lost access to the finale. So I'm excited. Maybe we'll ask for it if we finish episode seven a little early, but we're going to, supposedly we're going to get access to the finale ahead of it anyway. Right.

[01:28:47] So we can get that episode out on time, but I'm very eager to see what's next. This show has me. It's really hard to be good and follow our rules, not to keep going. I know. I know. I thought, I thought last time I was like, I could go for a good another episode right now. Yeah. Yeah. And then I watched The Righteous Gemstones, which is a very different vibe. Very different vibe. That was not what I was watching for the first time. I've been having crazy dreams because of this show, I just realized.

[01:29:15] I just remembered some I had last night that were definitely forsaken influenced. Well, don't, don't let them do that. That's not good. No. As long as I don't go into Teleron Riyadh. As long as I keep. I'm trying to say that limiting your forsaken exposure is very healthy for you. Yeah. To make sure to only eight hours a night. Yeah. So, yeah, we did mention before the mailbag episode was released earlier this week.

[01:29:43] So that's includes mailbag and spoilers through episode five. Actually, I guess it's released the day before this because of when we're recording. And do also check out, there will be two lore casts this week. There will be Talents and there will be another Songs edition where Mark and I talk about the two new songs that were added to the Diegetic in Universe show canon.

[01:30:08] You have access to both of those episodes and all the other lore casts with the season three pass. And do you want to talk about the season pass? It's a good deal, folks. Pay 10 bucks, you get access forever. You could also get our recurring subscription. Then you get everything extra that we do, like Second Breakfast and Elevensees. But the season passes for people who are here for the Wheel of Time and nothing else. And then they don't want our recurring subscription. So you pay us 10 bucks once, we give you the podcast, and then we're all set. Right.

[01:30:39] And, yeah, if you have the subscription, though, then you also have access to the Severn stuff, Rings of Power stuff, our Elevensees, which this past month is Scott Pilgrim versus Zoolander, our first tie. And by the time this episode comes out, we can say that the April vote will be live, which is the there will be subscribers can vote for one of three films, which the category this month was 20, 24 favorites. We missed.

[01:31:04] And the three films are Better Man, Kneecap and A Real Pain, which I'm very excited to watch any one of those three and talk about. It sounds like a good lineup. Yeah. Definitely recommend everyone watch all three regardless. But you can also you can help us out. You know, if you don't want to subscribe, you don't want the season pass, it's fine. If you are just listening, it's already a huge help. Thank you so much for being here and hearing us out. If you share this episode, this is a huge help.

[01:31:32] Anyone else who's enjoying the Wheel of Time or should be enjoying the Wheel of Time, let them know that we're helping to fill in all the lore and details. And you can also leave a review and mention the Wheel of Time wherever you're listening. That would be excellent. What else we got going on? We got plenty of stuff coming. We have got Andor and The Last of Us. Oh, my. And yeah, we have we're going to have a season pass for Andor 2, not for The Last of Us.

[01:32:00] Andor, we're going to do Holocron bonus episodes because that's just a cute branding for Lorecast, basically. And yeah, similar stuff for that. We're doing it with Squadron style. The promo's going. So if you're on the public feed, you're hearing my silly Darth Vader voice telling you what's going on. And yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. Then I just dropped a Silmarillion story, too. So that'll be out by the time this drops. And yeah. Yeah.

[01:32:27] And Daredevil, anyone who's listening to this, then this week, I think it is. Oh, I'm getting the calendar confused in my head. But after basically, Jean and I are covering episodes four through seven of Daredevil together. Right. Because they changed the release order, right? Yeah. They changed the release order. And then it's also just like it just feels like we're covering the rest of the old batch of episodes. It was done by the prior team together.

[01:32:51] And then so then we'll be all set up for the last two episodes, which are done by the new team. All right. That sounds fun. I got to catch up. I have it. I have it in my queue to watch. Yeah. It's been it's been a solid season. But I feel like there it's it's been a good to watch and good to be with these characters again.

[01:33:12] But it does feel like there's some sense of like this holding pattern until the end of the season when it's like, OK, now we get back to what they're really going for with the new directors and writers and everything. So that's really interesting because they shot a bunch and then they stopped and they restarted. Yeah, they shot a bunch. And then, you know, I think it was actually even Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio, the two stars of the show who went to them and were like, I don't know if this is going the right direction. And then they looked at it.

[01:33:40] And then finally, Kevin Feige's like, fine, we can acknowledge the Netflix shows more. So they decided to tie it back with the Netflix shows more. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And of course, do check out the link tree in the show notes with all of the affiliates. And also the link to Discord where we have a full forum for the Wheel of Time with different channels for every episode and book stuff and all that. And we want to hear your feedback.

[01:34:10] I guess we'll do another mailbag at the end of the season. So you can send your feedback for that to watt at thelorehounds.com. Any other thoughts before the reading of the names? I was trying to think of a good pun, but I don't have one. So just go. Just tell all your friends about Wheel of Time. Let's not let it get canceled. I keep all season, I'm like, are we getting it canceled? In my head. Yeah.

[01:34:35] I mean, I don't want to let myself with every twist and turn of the wind in the entertainment industry right now. I don't want to let that send me into a panic. But I'm just like, just everybody watch. Just everybody watch. Just make the numbers real, real big. It can't hurt to get more people watching. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely helps any case. It's hard. Yeah. I feel like people will fight back more on being allowed to cast whoever they want if they can show like, no, but look, people are watching.

[01:35:05] People like it. Right. Yeah. And I think people are watching. And obviously, people do are like really loving this season. And I'm seeing even a lot of skeptics being won over. So that's great. I see that too. I've been on Reddit. And I don't go on Reddit very much anymore. But the few times I've been on, I go on the Wheel of Time subreddit. And there's a lot of people saying like, I didn't like season one or two. And I'm in on the season now. Right.

[01:35:31] So if you did like season one and two, then I mean, that's a thing is also each season is better than the last undeniably, even if I like all three seasons. But I will not deny each season is better than the last. So imagine season four. I just think like we've lost something of like, yeah, sure. A lot of shows have always been canceled. But like shows, I think, were generally given more runway to like find their identity in the early 2000s prior to the streaming revolution.

[01:35:59] And Netflix especially has been the one that's like, nope, you're not doing numbers. We're not going to give you a chance. Yeah. Well, yeah. Max also. Yeah. Lately. Yeah. I mean, Apple and Prime have had more wiggle room not to do that because of their because basically they're being funded by the tech side of their businesses. But now there's more open reporting like with Apple. They're like, well, you know what? They lost a billion in streaming. So is that actually a smart investment?

[01:36:28] So that's going to make Apple rethink things also. Yeah. I mean, it's they're still trying, I think, to make the argument of like we could lose a billion on this because it's still going to get more people to use Apple products. Right. Yeah. I mean, but that's the thing is like and I think they are thankfully also finally budging a little bit. Well, first of all, where I live, at least they doubled the price of Apple this year. So there's that.

[01:36:55] But also they seem to be budging a bit on not making it like they finally created an Android app to watch the show, which is they were really dragging their feet on that. They're the only ones that you could didn't have an app on any device for. So maybe that helps them more than they expect, because I think a lot of people just didn't want to sign up for Apple because it was a pain in the ass. Yeah. Yeah. Especially now Android's bigger in Europe than in the US.

[01:37:21] I thought about going Android recently, but see, this is why the Apple TV stuff makes sense to me is like, you know, I don't want to leave my iPhone because I own so many apps on it and whatnot. And all my stuff's already. And that is something that you can't like quickly change in the ecosystem. And so that's why I think Apple TV helps spread it. Why are we talking about this? Well, I was just going to say we were talking in the second breakfast about my use of a lot of Google stuff.

[01:37:49] And this is also why I use a lot of Google stuff. My TV's Android. My phone and tablet are Android, you know. Yeah, I get it. My Windows computer plays nicer with Android than Apple. So, yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Okay. Should we do the reading? Do you want to do the reading of the names? Sure. I don't have music. Sorry, Joan. All right. If you're listening. Discord server booster is Aaron K. Tiller the Thriller. Dork of the Ninjas. Dove 71. Athena A. Tina Lestu. Dancy M.

[01:38:19] Ghost of Perdition and Radioactive Richard. And our lore masters. Samarshan. Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. SC. Peter O.H. Bettina W. Adam S. Nancy M. Dove 71. Brian 8063. Frederick H. Sarah L. Garrett C. Matthew M. Sarah M. DJ Miwa. Andra B. Kwan Yu. Did I Jedi Bob. Nathan T. Alex V. Sub-Zero. Aaron K. Dally V. Mothership 61. Narls. Kathy W. Lestu. Jeffrey B. Elisa Yu. Neil F. Ben B. Scott F.

[01:38:49] Steven N. Julia F. Kali S. Ilmariel. And Adrian. Thanks everyone for all your support. And thank you to all listeners and all subscribers for helping us keep going. Thank you. Full book spoilers after the outro music. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions, feedback, and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all our episodes at patreon.com slash thelorehounds.

[01:39:19] Any opinions stated are ours presently and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. So did you have any book spoilers from this episode you wanted to get out? Oh, I meant to write something down before, but I don't know. I am just really looking forward to seeing the development of Ranfere, what they do with this. I want to know, are they going to bring in somebody else like Asmodian?

[01:39:48] Are we going to get the eighth forsaken here? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it feels it's definitely late for Asmodian, but we don't know. So if they bring him in, they'll definitely merge him with other stories and they won't have him just exit immediately, I'm sure. So I don't know. I'm also like, where has Loghain been this season? Because, yeah, he was the one who was teaching Ranfere. I guess he's locked up in the tower right now. Yeah, I'm okay with having a break from him.

[01:40:16] I mean, we have a long break from him in the books. Yeah, I know. But I liked having less Loghain break. Fair enough. But, yeah, so Ran and Egwene, what I was referencing about that is just, you know, as the story goes on, we see them really as these parallels to each other. But in the books, you know, they started as, you know, best friends, betrothed in Emmons Field and the Two Rivers.

[01:40:42] And then as they grow and do their own things, we see this distrust develop between them. But still, it's like a trust and a distrust at the same time. Like, it's very complicated. And I just think that the way they've handled it in the show with having them have, like, a more grown-up romantic relationship and then also having this complication of, you know, where Egwene has a real reason to feel like she can't trust Ran right now.

[01:41:08] But then at the same time, there is such real deep fundamental love between them. I think that just really sets up their relationship well for the roles they'll play in trying to, like, balance each other as these powers in the world as they grow. I just think it's a little weird for them to later be like, so we all slept with this guy, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it does get to the point of, like, how many exes can be friends at the same time?

[01:41:37] Actually, that's, like, a very strong reality in my world. I am friends with almost all of my exes, so. And they know each other. And, yeah. So, yeah. I don't find – I like that. I find that refreshing. Okay. I am very glad for you. But, okay. So, we were teasing about maybe Fael's lying to Perrin. We know, first of all, in the books, at least, her real name is Zarin.

[01:42:04] We don't know for certain if they're keeping that here, but probably, right? And we know that we meet her parents in the books. It's Davram and Dira Bashir, and they are not dark friends. So, you think she's lying about the fact that her mother is in this version? I think she's lying about her name right now. I think she's lying about the dark friend thing. I think she's just trying to keep a little bit of mystery left. Because she likes that, you know? I think she genuinely likes, separately from any purpose, she just likes having secrets.

[01:42:34] Okay. Okay. She's someone who likes having control, especially over Perrin. So, speaking of Perrin, do you think – okay, speaking of Perrin and Rand and Lanphir. So, in the books, Lanphir, she disappears through this door with Moraine, and she ends up getting killed so she can be reborn in a new forsaken body called Sine Dain. I don't know if they're going to do that whole complication, switching body things. Probably not.

[01:43:02] But, ultimately, she's quote-unquote killed by Perrin, although we find out in the book – what's it called again? The one that you guys interviewed about? Oh, Origins of the Wheel of Time? Yes. We find out that she was not actually dead or something. But, okay, so Perrin is the one who ostensibly kills her.

[01:43:24] I don't know if that is, like, the most satisfying thing, and I wonder – well, first of all, I wonder if it'll be Rand, because I do really hope Rand doesn't do that whole, like, I can't kill women thing now that the child has died. But, or better, what if Egwene gets to be the one to kill her? That would be satisfying. Yeah, I could see it. I wouldn't have a problem. Doesn't she kill another one of the forsaken, too? Yeah.

[01:43:50] Yeah, I mean, I do wonder – because they do this thing for a while where, like, some of them die and then they come back. And I think the only one who needs to come back is Ishamiel Ismordine, and the rest, I'm like, let's not replicate this. Yeah, I'm fine with Lanphier staying dead. Well, actually, no, I like her battle with Perrin eventually. I do. Yeah, no, I'm saying, like, just don't do the whole switching bodies thing, you know? Let's just keep the same actress and, you know, finish Lanphier's arc. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah.

[01:44:27] Yeah. So, again, have not watched ahead. This is just what I think. We know the episode title is Golden Eyes. And I think for the finale, we're not going to get more of the Two Rivers story just because some reviews said that there was, like, an either-or situation in the last couple episodes. So, I think we're just going to get the other three stories, the Chanchico, the Tower, and the Waste in the finale. But not the Two Rivers. Oh, okay. This is my impression. Again, we don't really know.

[01:44:57] Yeah. Okay. All right. I was going to say, I am excited to get back to in the finale. I'm excited to see. I'm wondering if the Shanchan come back in, especially because when Matt had that Taviren moment this episode, they played the Shanchan theme. And, like, was that signaling his destiny? Is that what that was about? Are we going to get Two on? I don't think we're going to get heard this early. No. But I could see this Two on, like, at the end of the season. The same way they did it in season one. Like, we're back. Exactly. Yeah.

[01:45:25] I could see it being, like, the post-credits scene. Like, oh, and on top of all this, the Shanchan are back. Yeah. That is something that happens in the books where you're like, no. It is. But that's how life works, right? So, that's why I think it's very cool the way they do it. It's a very inconvenient time for this to happen, and it's going to happen anyway. Right. Right. Because you don't get to control things like that. Yeah. Right. I'm very excited to see the Panarchs Palace. Do you think? I really, they better give us, like, giraffe bones, right? They got to give us something.

[01:45:55] There was a car symbol, too, wasn't there? Wasn't there, like, a hood ornament? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I can see the symbol. The one that looks like a peace sign. What is that, Chevy? I don't know. I don't remember. But, yeah, I always love that. That they're like, oh, and it's your world, too, buddy. Yeah. Or is it Mercedes, the one that looks like a peace sign? Anyway. I think it was a Mercedes symbol. Yeah, Mercedes. Okay. Obviously, I'm not a car person. I haven't owned one for a very long time.

[01:46:24] Do you think we'll get a doorway in the Panarchs Palace? A twisted doorway to the realm of the Elfin that Matt might fall through or something? Yes. I think they seem to like to resolve their mysteries by the end of the season. And the whole vision with him hanging, they have to do something about that, right? Right. I think so. Who do you think? Do you think Rand will show up at the end to cut him down like he does in Radiant in the books? Or do you think someone else will take that role?

[01:46:54] I think it would be good if Min did and, like, reclaim her honor with Matt. Okay, that makes sense. You know, I think they set her up for a redemption arc there. Right. And she will be the one following him and closely watching him because she's, like, so afraid of this vision coming true. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I'm very excited about that. Any other thoughts you want to throw out? I'm really excited for the Battle of the Two Rivers. Yeah. It's going to be fun. Yeah.

[01:47:22] I know some way or another it's going to break my heart. I just know it. Yeah. Poor Natty Cawthon. She's gone. Poor Natty Cawthon. Yeah. I mean, if that's like, you know, they're taking out somewhat minor characters like her earlier on. Like, they have, there's a lot of fake out deaths in this show and it is one of my, it is probably my biggest recurring problem with the show. I'm like, stop at the fake out deaths. But they have been genuinely also just, like, killing people.

[01:47:50] Like, oh, Uno last season. Oh, my God. Yeah. That was, that was shocking. That was shocking. That was shocking. But actually, I was more shocked by Natty Cawthon. Yeah? Why? Because it was kind of a lot more gruesome, I thought. Oh, well, yeah. She burned rather than getting a spike through her head. But Uno is a bigger character in the book. So that was for me, like, a real gut punch. Yeah. They're doing it. They're doing a different story.

[01:48:19] I mean, what are you going to do? You only have so much screen time. And there's like, I think I saw somewhere recently, there's more than 2,500 named characters in these books. Oh, yeah. I don't blame them at all. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah, I wish it wasn't Uno. I know. I know. And this is why we need, next time we need, we need 15 seasons with 20 episodes each.

[01:48:44] You know what I was thinking about the other day is like, all these people who are like, oh, it's not close enough to the book, so I don't like it. It's like, do you think you're ever going to get something that's an exact adaptation of the books? Even in anything, you're not going to get that. But especially in the Wheel of Time where it's this long and like, you're not going to get a live action series where you can keep the actors around that long. No. And even if it's animated, it would just be too long. Well, tell that to a Chiro Oda. Yeah, okay. Fine. Fair, fair. We're going on 26 years now.

[01:49:14] I mean, for American television, unless it's like The Simpsons, which is not telling this. It's, yeah, just this one epic through story. I don't know. I just can't imagine them doing it for more than a decade, which is what they'd have to do. It's been 26 years and we don't know what The One Piece is. That's all I'm saying. And this is why I'm afraid to start that one. It's so good, though. You got to watch it. All right. I feel like one day I'm going to get on a podcast with you and you're going to be wearing a pirate hat.

[01:49:45] I mean, I did decide I should, like, because I thought in my head, I'm like, well, I'll watch the animated series first. And then I'm like, no, come on. I'll just start with the Netflix show. People seem to like it. So if that draws me in, then maybe I'll go deeper. The Netflix show is good, but it's just you're not you're never going to get the level of detail that you get in the in the hundreds of episodes. If there's that, there's over a thousand now. Oh, wow.

[01:50:13] Yeah, I just if you like the Wheel of Time, somebody actually told me, like, if you like the Wheel of Time, you'll also like One Piece if you like anime. Okay, because it is the same thing of like really intentional and long term world building seeding these like interesting tidbits that'll come back later that you don't expect them to do in this in the same way that they were set up. Okay, all these all these different factions, all these different like cultures. It's it's very, very similar to Wheel of Time in that sense.

[01:50:43] All right. You're selling me. You're selling me. Very good. All right. Well, now that we've done our One Piece podcast. Well, my old co-host kind of kind of bell on me. So if you start watching, you let me know. We were only like 100 episodes in. Oh, okay. Just just the tip. Yeah, you know, I I've started watching a cut that is they cut out the intro and the outro and the flashbacks and they're like 15 minutes each now.

[01:51:14] Yeah, I would recommend. Well, see, I was waiting for you. I was hoping you guys were going to do the live action one. Um, yeah, we couldn't get it together. We could not get it together. Maybe. And I thought it was honestly a very good season. It was. Uh, there are some weird things coming that I don't know how we're going to play in live action. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, it's also it's just been hard to keep up with everything because I would have loved to have covered the live action avatar. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:51:42] And you know, they're restarting the One Piece anime soon. Restarting it. Yeah. So they're going to finish this one. And at the same time, they're rebooting it. Okay. To start from the beginning and have absolutely no filler. Okay. So just like streamline it. Slightly different art style, but mostly the same different voice cast. Maybe that's, that's where I get on board. That sounds like it's made for people like me. I think it's going to start this year or next, actually. All right. All right. Keep me updated. All right. I will.

[01:52:12] It's called The One Piece this time. The One Piece. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. One Piece after Wheel of Time. Or to tide us over for Wheel of Time seasons four, five, six, seven, and eight. That's right. That's right. All right, everybody. We'll see you on the Lorecast. The Wheel Weave. Greetings, you lovely Lorehound listeners. He's self-proclaimed Star Trek expert, Captain Ian. And she is relapsed Trek fan ambassador today.

[01:52:37] And together we invite you to join our show, Captain's Pod, as Ian attempts to reignite my childhood love of Star Trek. Through Star Trek, old and new, TV and movie, I made it my goal to expose Denae to as much of the final frontier as possible. I'm learning so much about aliens and uniforms and stardates, starships and helidecks. What are they? They're teleporters. Transporters. It's transporters, Denae. It's the same thing. It's not. It is. Join our growing crew by searching for Captain's Pod. It's not the same.

[01:53:07] To teleport. Ah!