28 Years Later (2025) – The evolution of the infected

[00:00:42] Welcome to The Lorehounds where we're breaking down the British apocalypse. I'm Alicia, your guide across the causeway. And I'm Jean, the giant slayer. Or at least that's what my family tells people at parties. And we're here to talk about the new Danny Boyle, Alex Gardner, Zumbie Thriller, 28 Years Later. And this is actually the second episode in this series. Supercast and Patreon subscribers have access to the first where we talked about 28 days later and 28 weeks later.

[00:01:12] We recapped those two movies, discussed the zombies in society and cinema, and how these movies, the Zumbies, as Riley coined, upended all of that. So today we're moving on to the new film, 28 Years Later. We are again joined by our guest, Riley. Welcome back. Hi, it's great to be here. Awesome to have you. Do you want to tell us a bit about your, because there'll be lots of people hearing this who didn't get to hear the first time.

[00:01:41] So you are also a YouTuber yourself, covering similar stuff. Do you want to tell us a bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So I have a YouTube channel called Biological Riley. I talk about movies, video games, and TV, and kind of how it interacts with, you know, me, my interests, or how we connect with them. And a lot of times that includes LGBTQ and mental health themes, but sometimes some other things. And yeah, that's kind of the basis of the channel.

[00:02:10] And it, yeah, I love doing it. Yeah, I'll, yeah, your videos are much shorter and snappier, very funny than ours, where we have nice long conversations. Um, I'll put a link in the show notes for anyone who wants to check that out. Um, and we are, as usual, going to be beginning with our spoiler-free hot takes for this film and some production info.

[00:02:35] So we will give you a spoiler warning and a break before we get into the nitty gritty of the plot. But yeah, this basically, this one picks up 28, well, there's a, there's an opening scene that happens where we see the outbreak happening with this, the zombies or the rage virus taking everyone down. Then it jumps 28 years later and Britain is quarantined and we see what is happening there.

[00:03:02] So I want to ask Riley, what were your overall spoiler-free thoughts on, um, the new film? Um, so my overall spoiler-free take on 28 years later, I think it's a great legacy sequel. It's, it's rich in meaning. It explores the zombie genre in creative ways.

[00:03:24] Uh, not exactly sure if the epilogue entirely works, but that also might just be because I, my brain likes consistency given that I have OCD. So sometimes if something's inconsistent, even if intentionally, tonally, I'll still kind of like jar against it a little bit. But overall, I think it was a great movie and did, did a lot of new things for the, you know, or at least fresh ideas for like the zombie genre. And yeah, I overall really dug it.

[00:03:56] Um, I thought it was great. I really liked it there. Like Riley just said, they incorporated some new things into the whole zombies. I really, I really dug, um, which shows, you know, again, what good intention filmmaking can be. Because in their first go-around, they introduced, you know, new things to the zombie genre.

[00:04:24] And now again, they came back and there's some new things going on as well. Um, yeah, I thought it was sufficiently scary in spots. And I, you know, really dug the characters. I, I really got invested in, in one of them in particular, we'll talk about when we get there. And, um, really detested another one. So they did a good job of pulling on my emotional strings while making me, you know, like, ooh, what was coming?

[00:04:54] What is that? You know? So it was good fun. It was good fun. Yeah. Would you, um, who would you recommend this to? And do you think that you need to have watched the prior two films? No, I don't think you need to have watched the prior two films to enjoy this and to understand what's going on. Because I think they pretty much laid it out for you. Um, yeah.

[00:05:22] I, I think anyone who enjoys being scared would like this movie. Like if there's someone who, if you're someone who likes to jump out of your seat at certain points, then this is the kind of film that you probably might want to see. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you think it compares to the first two? How would you rank these three? Oh, man. That's, that's hard.

[00:05:46] Um, I'd go 28 weeks, 28 years, no, 28 days, 28 years and 28 weeks. Okay. Okay. What about you, Riley? How would you rank these? And, and do you think you need to watch the first two before watching this one? Um, I think the second one you probably don't need to see.

[00:06:12] I mean, it's, it's a solid movie still, but it's not necessarily necessary for like anything that's in the movie. Um, 28 days. Um, I mean, technically, I don't think you do need to see 28 days to appreciate, still appreciate 28 years later. Though I, though I think it would enhance the experience a little bit, just knowing some of the background. And also because, you know, Killian Murphy isn't in this one.

[00:06:40] Or, or not calling him Cillian Murphy this time. Uh, we live and learn. We live. Yes. This is what happens. Um, but this, and this one, like you can go into it blind and still really appreciate it. And as far as ranking, I would say I'll, I'll do 28 weeks at the bottom. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:06] And then a part of me is like, do I, this is a really tough question because. I know. Oh. They're both good in their own ways and they do so many new things. Um, I'll go 28 days and then 28 years on top only because I'm going to justify it with recency bias. And so if I changed my mind, I'll just say it was recency bias. Yeah. But it is great. Yeah.

[00:07:36] Yeah. Um, if I, as a completionist, of course, I'm like, watch all the movies. But I think honestly, if you just came in with this one, uh, it sets up everything because indeed it's introducing new characters. So, yeah, there's nothing that you need to know that you don't get from this film. But I mean, I think that there's a kind of more of an understanding of what this film is. If you watch the first one, the second one is, is going to be the odd one out.

[00:08:05] Uh, just because it was mostly made by it's yeah, it's just the most difference. It's the most cynical. It's the one made by a different group, um, for the most part. So, uh, so yeah, my rankings again, yeah. Also weeks at the bottom. Not that I dislike it. It's just not, doesn't the other two are far and above for me.

[00:08:24] And I think I will also put years on top just because I think it like days change the game for not just zombie, zombie movies, but like horror movies and many other types of movies in general. And, um, I, yeah, that I am going to give it five stars for that.

[00:08:44] But in addition to recency bias for the new one, I just really respect at this point that you take an existing movie and still make wild swings on top of what you've already done with this groundbreaking movie. And yeah, this is, I am so it's my number two film of the year so far after sinners. And I can't believe I have two horror films of this caliber to be obsessed with this year. Um, we're eating good this year.

[00:09:14] Yeah. I went to see it twice in the theater so far. And I think it's funny. The first one I, the first time I was like holding my breath most of the time because there's just some really tense shit that goes down. Um, and, and there's also emotional scenes and I cried and I laughed. And the second time was a much more relaxing trip because it wasn't opening night.

[00:09:39] Uh, it wasn't opening night and it was, I knew who was going to live and who was going to die. So I wasn't like tense about that. I knew what was going to happen. So I could really appreciate more of the details. Um, so yeah, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to talk it through with you both. I think we, we talk about the pequila rating. You, you heard about this in our other episode, Riley. Yes.

[00:10:06] What would be your pequila rating from zero to five? Um, I'll go four, maybe five. Yeah. Cause I, I would have gone, I went, I think I went five on 28 days just cause there was a lot more blood puking in that one. Yeah. Like it's literally the pequila rating.

[00:10:32] Um, this one, not as much, if I recall, not as much blood puking, but it's still some nasty stuff. They open, they open with it right away actually. Okay. John, what's your pequila rating for this one? Oh man, that it's like a, I think I'll give it like a four. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you agree? I think I'll give it like a four. Okay. Yeah. I think there's some pretty gory spots in it. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:02] And, and dark as well. Dark and gory. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll give it like a four. But it has a real emotional, um, like it's not just cynical, you know, like the second one. It has a lot of heart. Memento amoris. Sorry. Yeah. Talk about that after spoilers, but yeah. There's reasons for the gore. Right. And it's not just to, you know, to put the blood splatter on the screen. Right. Right.

[00:11:29] So it falls in line with the story and what they're trying to do and what they're trying to tell us. So yeah, I, I agree with you in the way that 28, um, weeks later was just gore for the, for gore's sake. Right. I mean, the helicopter. Exactly. Exactly where I was going. I enjoyed it. Yeah. I mean, I laughed. Don't get me wrong. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:11:55] But this one has a little bit more, um, um, to the gore, but still a four. So we talked a bit, uh, about, you know, this circular effect of, of, um, influences and, you know, the Alex Garland, the writer has talked about that. We'll talk about that a bit more in this, but one thing I didn't know, did notice that I swear they must be also pulling from, I, they must also be fans. Now you just want to talk about quote unquote bad movies. Like the best bad movies are just over the top.

[00:12:25] Ridiculous. Doomsday 2008. It's about, um, Scotland has been quarantined because of a zombie outbreak. And so they have, uh, a woman who was born there, who escaped as a little girl. And she's leading a party to go back in to see if they can find a cure. And, um, as they go through there, they go, there's a place with a castle. Uh, they have Mad Max stuff going on.

[00:12:54] They have, you know, and I swear. They, I think this is a more secretly influential film than people let on like the sequel to train to Busan called peninsula from 2020 totally rips off the whole plot of that as well. And I swear that, um, Alex Garland watched that as well. And I respect it. I, I also, I, as I was like looking into this, I was like, why, what's Danny Boyle's ties with Scotland?

[00:13:22] Because that's, you know, a central character in here, even though most of it was filmed in Northern England. And, um, I, I came across this medium story that's, uh, you know, as a medium, the website and it's quite short, I'll put a link in the show notes. Um, but the writer KM Dugan is Scottish. And basically it's about this person realizing that Danny Boyle is not Scottish and, and being

[00:13:46] like an apoplectic denial about it, you know, just cannot believe that he's not Scottish because how can he, you know, what about train spotting? How can he have captured the Scottish spirit like this? And then eventually deciding, um, well, he's Scottish to me. I respect it. What did you guys think of Alfie Allen, who I think it's not too spoilery to say that he's pretty much the main character.

[00:14:16] I thought it was pretty great. You know, like just imagine it must've been hard for like a young kid to kind of lead a movie like this. I thought he was, I thought he was great. I really like, I, and because I, the reason why I thought he was great is because I wanted to, to, you know, grab him by his shoulders and shake him a few times. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And also I wanted to just like hug him and, and, and just pull him away from situations that I thought he shouldn't have been in.

[00:14:46] So, and he displayed all the emotion that you would think that someone his age of that age would, would have in this, in this, um, you know, in this, this world that they're living in. So I really enjoyed watching him play off, um, Jamie, his dad and also his mom and also, you know, trying to, to, you could see like the wheels turning in his head, trying to figure out things as he's going along, which, you know, for a 12 year old has to be, you know,

[00:15:15] Oh my gosh. Like he, you know, I can't, I can't even imagine, I couldn't even imagine being in his shoes. Right. And him as an actor making me want to be protective. And at the same time, just, just really making me upset. Like, no, don't do that. Right. He, he displayed all of those things for me really well. And I thought he did a great job. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:42] He like, he like walks the line, like between, you know, he makes, it's understandable why he makes bad decisions. So it's like you, like he might make like, or maybe not necessarily a bad decision, but it's like, it's an understandable decision, even though it endangers him. And so you don't really like question it. You don't really think stop being you, you're, you're falling into like horror movie traps,

[00:16:07] but it's kind of, uh, you know, you understand where he's coming from, even though you're kind of like, this is, it seems very dangerous. I mean, I think it's, um, I really applaud them for building a movie around a kid of that age, because first of all, yeah, you have the casting is, is very tricky. It's difficult to find someone who can carry that, but also all the extra considerations that they have to take into account.

[00:16:34] Like for example, they could only film during the day. So things that look like they're happening at night, they actually built indoor sets for that, uh, for those night shots. And then most of it's during the day. Wow. I didn't know that. But I think when you have restrictions like that, I think that makes it so interesting because you know, it's always like, Oh, the zombies are lurking in the dark. Like, no, well, what if they're just still there chasing you in the daylight?

[00:17:01] Um, and it gives us kind of fresh feeling to this, this fresh aesthetic to the whole film. So, and what we'll talk about, uh, we won't do spoilers here, but it's cool to see how the zombies have evolved, you know, that they can, they don't seem so bothered by the daylight anymore. Um, other things we'll discuss. Yeah. Uh, I'll just say that I am glad.

[00:17:29] And I think anyone who wants to go see this, who doesn't know this, will be glad to know that, um, part two, the bone temple has already been filmed and it's coming out in January. So if things are a little, what the fuck was that at the end? And then, uh, yeah. What did you think, uh, Jean, in vague terms about the spoiler?

[00:17:58] Um, we'll talk about it when we get there. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. I mean, it's, it's, there's an interesting ending, but also an interesting beginning. It's kind of circular. So, um, so yeah, we, we talked in our last episode a lot more about Danny Boyle and Alex Garland, the filmmakers, uh, but this time they're back together. It's the first time since sunshine in 2007, because apparently they had a sort of falling out there.

[00:18:28] So it took them a while to work together again. Um, and the 28 days later cinematographer Anthony Dodd Mantle is back too. So he's, he won, um, an Oscar working with Danny Boyle on slumdog millionaire. Do you think for 28 years later, is this a film you have to see on the big screen or is it okay to wait, you know, money aside for it to come out at home?

[00:18:56] Um, always, uh, I mean, you like, you love movies, you love movies, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be, but I think, um, small screen or big screen doesn't make a, a difference in the tone of the movie. I think for me, I think you can watch it on the small screen and still get the same, um, the same jump scares that you get on the, on the larger screen. And when it comes down to, you know, zombies, that's what you want.

[00:19:25] So I think small screen would be okay too. Hmm. I mean, I think, yeah, sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say, I, uh, I'd say like, I would, I will always prefer going to a theater just cause I love going out and, you know, I love just being in that kind of environment, but, you know, at home, I still think you would still get a equal about an equal experience

[00:19:50] in the sense that it was kind of like the first movie shot, uh, you know, not as low quality because iPhones are a lot more higher quality than the older cameras that they use in the other films. So it's kind of like, you know, you won't, you'll still get kind of like, not as like high production necessary. I mean, in terms of like camera work as cause it's an iPhone.

[00:20:18] Yeah, there's definitely, um, uh, there's still a grainy retro looks of the footage. So it's interesting. So I went to see it twice and the first time I did actually pay the three extra euros to see it in Dolby. And that was, that looked really great. And then the second time it just so happens. I mean, I just had to coordinate it with where I had to run errands in the neighborhood.

[00:20:42] So the film at that time happened to be in the worst screen in that cinema that I like to go to. Like just the one I know, like that is the shittiest screen in the cinema. They really need to replace it. Uh, so it was really interesting to see, like, especially the second time, how much it was like, you know, it kind of still looks a lot like that, um, 2002, 28 days later, greeny aesthetic.

[00:21:12] Wow. But I think also, and so in that sense, you know, I'd say small screen, no problem. But at the same time, there are some absolutely incredible sweeping shots like overhead in that village and like with the Aurora in the backgrounds. And, um, and also, yeah, like on that hill when we see that's in the trailer. So I don't feel bad bringing it up. We see a bunch of zombies cresting the hill in the daylight. Yeah.

[00:21:42] There's some beauty to it. There is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Which is ironic considering. Kind of movie. Yeah. Well, there's beauty in the decay and the death. Yeah. Um, the editing was done by John Harris, who's known for films like Snatch, Layer Cake, The Descent. And I think you can definitely see that in the kind of rapid fire.

[00:22:10] Just this is the editing is one of the big swings. Did it work for you, Riley? Um, yeah, I'd say it worked for me. I felt tense. I felt, um, you know, in the parts that were moving, cause there is, you know, going once we go into spoilers, you know, it's, uh, there's a lot of things that in the movie that put together and how it's, you know, this way that just moved me emotionally.

[00:22:37] And, you know, it had me had my attention from beginning to end, which is not always easy for someone with ADHD like myself, uh, but I was captivated by. Yeah. Maybe that's why I like it too. Um, I had a realization with that with, uh, there was a documentary last year, one of the Oscar nominated docs. We noticed all the ADHD people liked it more than, than other people because it's just rapid fire editing.

[00:23:07] What did you think, Joe? No, I thought it was great. I thought the editing was, was wonderful. I thought the action sequences were tremendous. Um, yeah, they, they pulled it off. They pull it off. So. Yeah. The one big difference is the music was such a character in the first two films and that was done by composer John Murphy. But this time the composer was a, uh, Scottish progressive hip hop group called young fathers.

[00:23:37] And I realized that actually I had one of their songs already on my podcast. Playlist because they did a collaboration with, um, massive attack. Oh, massive attack. Okay. They have a song with massive attack called voodoo in my blood. Like voodoo. Anyway. Um, but I also, I shared two songs with, with you both from their prior work.

[00:24:03] I saw an in my view, and I'm going to insert a medley of the two of them right now for listeners at home.

[00:24:54] So jump. Are you, were you familiar with them at all? Are you, do you like, uh, did you like, I thought it's the sound of the, it was. Yeah. Is it iconic iconic? It's not iconic. Was it damn good listening to? Yes, it was. Like, you know what I mean? I mean, it's not sinners. Right. For me, it's not sinners. Right. As far as the music goes. Right. Okay. Yeah.

[00:25:23] But the music goes well with this movie. This is their first time doing a film score. Um, I, I really liked, I liked how, okay. So first there was a song called lowly from the soundtrack. Here's a clip.

[00:25:59] And it's playing while they are, uh, just doing something very, you know, it's just people living in this time. This has been going on for 28 years and now they found a way to live a life. And, uh, this, it's kind of like upbeat and, um, yeah, feels like we're getting jazzed up for like a regular thing. It's like your life, but with zombies. And, and then there's this other song, uh, called pals and I'll play a clip of that here.

[00:26:59] And for me, pals is the one that's kind of the ode to that. I read original theme song. Um, where we, it's kind of like escalating the tension, you know, plays over a key action scene. But yeah, I'm, I'm really, I'm excited about it. And I'm a little bit sad that they're not scoring the next movie. Hmm. It was a great score. Um, kind of like, you know, in, in its defense, you know, sinners is about music.

[00:27:27] So it kind of has, it kind of has to nail like 10 out of 10, 11, maybe even beyond, but this one, this one is really good. And it was very much not Ludwig, Ludwig Gorenson's first score. Sinners. Yeah. Very prolific, uh, composer who's already won. Good points. Good points. Good points. I concede those points. No, but I mean, I like this.

[00:27:52] This, I, this just felt like a very fresh new sound for this sort of, for, for film in general, for this sort of movie. Uh, it was, you know, they're, they're called, uh, progressive hip hop, but to me, it kind of sounds like my sort of punk electro, although there, there are other songs that are much more hip hop like, um, but I, I added them to a bunch of my playlists now. So thank you to Danny Boyle for introducing me.

[00:28:18] Um, apparently they also worked with a different sound team for this movie led by sound designer, Johnny Byrne, uh, who worked on the zone of interest. So yeah, the zone of interest was a movie got a lot of attention a couple of years ago, a set during the Holocaust, but it's the way it's filmed. It's very like in situ, you know, just, just recording things the way they are. And so this team likes to get down on the ground and go into locations and really make

[00:28:48] it sound as naturalistic as possible. Uh, so I think that for me, the sound mixing was very strong. I would love to see this get a sound nomination this year. Mm-hmm. Um, did you, Jean, did you think, did it feel long? Uh, did it feel fast? Just right. It was 115 minutes. No, it didn't feel long at all. It felt like it was moving. The story was moving. Um, yeah, I didn't, I didn't get caught up in the time at all.

[00:29:17] So when it ended, I was like, oh shit, it's over. But yeah, I wasn't like looking at my, my watch to, to see, um, because I was engaged in the film. So it didn't feel like it was a chore to go through. And the 115 minutes, honestly didn't feel, it felt shorter than that. I don't know why it felt shorter than the 115. But, um, yeah, I guess that's just good storytelling. Yeah.

[00:29:47] Riley, you and I are both agreeing. Yeah. It's, it's an incredibly well-paced movie. Uh, just, it mixes action. It mixes kind of the emotional beats. It's, it mixes kind of some horrifying, like reveals in terms of world building that how this world has changed in 28 years. Um, eventually introduces like a character, like halfway through that's kind of fun, but also kind of an asshole.

[00:30:18] Um, you know, it's just kind of, uh, get a lot of things and it always keeps you guessing, always keeps you engaged and always keeps you invested. Yeah. I think keeps you guessing. That's a good point because there's a lot of things where I was very surprised about what did or didn't happen. So it was budgeted. The budgets are reported 60 million and the box office so far after three weeks, it was

[00:30:43] just reported as we're recording today, uh, that it's made 103 million. And this is, I mean, this, yeah, this is good and it's not done, you know, and it's going to go on to video on demand and everything too. So it's going to continue to make good money. Um, but it just, just to watch the way the reporting on this is going and just how people eat up whatever the latest headline is. So I'm going to call out screen rent specifically.

[00:31:10] They, they often deserve it. But so on, uh, June 22nd, they published an article titled 28 years later, box office hits major global milestone in just three days. One day ago, they reported 28 years later, box office sets unfortunate week to drop record for horror franchise. This afternoon, they reported 28 years later breaks franchise record with new global box office milestone.

[00:31:38] Just chasing the most sensational. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's unfortunate, man. Yeah. I, uh, I really like think box office reporting. Is kind of overdone. It's just in general. I mean, I know, I know it's important. I know it's like, you know, it's like, do you want the movies you like to do? Well, of course, but you know, sometimes the business is very unpredictable and they're

[00:32:06] kind of like, the numbers are often, uh, you know, I'm, I'm not personally like invested emotionally in the, in the numbers as much as someone that actually has like money into it's just like, Oh, that's good to know. But yeah, I mean, I'm invested in this particular moment because we know, okay. So the second film right after this, like we said, already filmed coming out in January, but this is meant to be a trilogy.

[00:32:34] And whether the third will be greenlit is dependent on the results. Yeah. That's fair. That's more than fair. And I think this has done well enough. I think people just like to be sensationalist in the press. Um, it's, it's from Columbia pictures. It's, uh, Columbia pictures is also known for the Sony shit universe for Paddington. It ends with us karate kid.

[00:33:02] I know what you did last summer, a big, bold, beautiful journey. So it's, um, a mix of commercial stuff and awards bait. And I think this sits in a happy place in between that and, um, is, is a good solid brand for them. So, uh, the reviews have, have been, I mean, there's been some mixed reactions to it. Some, some people don't like that. There's emotions in their zombie movie, apparently, which I'm like, I don't, I don't know what to tell you. Did you watch the first one? Um, empathy is good.

[00:33:32] Yeah. Um, but the rotten tomatoes, uh, is 89% from critics, 64% from audiences, metacritic 76% from critics, 6.6 from audiences and letterboxd has a 3.6. So even on the audience critic side, it's, it's solid. Um, I just think, I think it's worth it that it took a big swing because I think that all

[00:33:59] it's something that's going to age well, where people are going to be like, wow, that was really doing something different. Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Do you have any final spoiler free thoughts? Nah, let's get to it. Let's get to it. All right. All right. We're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we will jump into the plot itself.

[00:34:34] Okay. So let's start. We're going to start at the beginning, but we're also going to start at the end because this is the wheel of zombie. Um, I basically the, the first scene in the last scene, they create a loop together. So it makes sense to discuss them together. Um, just to set up the first scene, it's Teletubby TV time. We've got a bunch of kids watching it. Um, and it's interesting, this Teletubby thing, they even specifically took landscapes and scattered them throughout the films to reference to that.

[00:35:04] And then obviously when we see the kid hears Jimmy, and then at the end we see adult Jimmy and, uh, they're doing their like punk karate to Teletubby punk music. I mean, that was so weird. It's a swing. It was so weird, but I couldn't get my eyes off of it. Yeah. It's like, it came from a different movie.

[00:35:34] I mean, it makes sense thematically. Like I think, but like, it's so like jarring to watch. Yeah. It's out of the blue. It's totally. Somehow the Teletubbies have returned. Like, wow. I was like, wait a minute. What the, what am I watching here? It was so weird. It was so weird. It was just like, ah, like Kung Fu, Karate. They, where did they get them?

[00:36:03] What, how did they learn the moves? That's what all, you know, like. They have Karate Kid. That's like their only VHS. That's the only thing they have. Maybe. Maybe. Uh, Jimmy's a father priest was very hardcore. Yes. Yeah. I mean, overall the, the carnage in this opening, like we've got women and children, even children

[00:36:31] are just getting murked left and right. We've got the father vomiting, gushing blood. And so, okay, here's, so the father's a zealot. And he's like, today is a day of judgment and salvation and blah, blah, blah. But then he told Jimmy to hide. So does that mean he doesn't really believe it's salvation or he doesn't think that his son's worth saving? I don't think so. Cause he gave his son the cross.

[00:36:59] So I, yeah, I think he knew it would be us. Hmm. He knew it was BS. He was telling himself what he needed to. Yeah. In order to save his son, I guess. Because if he really believed that, then he wouldn't have tried to save his son. He would have tried to see his son to the other side. Yeah. No. I mean, I'm glad we didn't see that, but yeah. Yeah. I'm so happy that he didn't do that, but it was just, yeah. That was, that was really tough. That was really tough. Yeah.

[00:37:29] He's better than the father in 28 weeks later. Oof. So what did you, what did you think? Where did we rank the fathers? Where did we rank the fathers? Cause I got problems with Jamie. Oh, okay. Okay. So who do you think's worse? Jamie or, or Papa Jimmy? Like a big part of me is, is lean in Jamie. Okay.

[00:37:56] Because everybody's telling him Spike is not ready to go. Yeah. He's not, he's not ready to go. Don't do this yet. No, cause he's 12. Yeah, yeah. Right. Don't do this yet. And he's just so sure. So, you know, it's like an ego thing with him. Mm-hmm. To prove that his son is worthy. Yeah. And I hated that. Hmm. I hated that.

[00:38:24] So, do you think that in a way Alfie is better off with the Jimmies at the end of the movie? No, hell no. So you do think that they're worse than Jamie? Doesn't make it right. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. Like I would love for Spike to have gone back to his community. Right? Because at least his community is not just his father. Right? Mm-hmm.

[00:38:52] But now he's in with the Jimmy crew. And the Jimmy crew, I don't think, I'm afraid of what the Jimmy crew is up to in the wilderness of the zombie apocalypse. Because the Jimmy crew looks like they're just nuts. They look like a bad influence considering the film's emotional storytelling up to that point. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:21] In terms of having kind of compassion and kind of, you know, being more respectful. Well, I always kind of thought this movie is very much about, or at least partially about, the dehumanization in terms of when you see it towards the beginning of, or towards the, after the prologue. They kill the zombies. They kill them. And they, you know, treat them like things.

[00:39:51] They don't treat them as people. And that's kind of like how most zombie, zombie narratives go. And I, I have heard like criticisms, not of this movie, but of like the genre in particular, where it's just like, well, zombies kind of like other sorts of genre fare where they, where there's enemies where you just kill them and you don't really feel anything about them. You know, it's just, that's what they're there for. That kind of takes the human element out of the question.

[00:40:15] And this movie is, was so, is fresh to me just because it doesn't, it, it goes in the opposite direction. And, you know, and once you get to the, the epilogue, so it's like you, main character goes throughout the movie learning to have empathy and they might be infected, but they actually still have some semblance of maybe if not humanity, then at very least like personhood to an extent.

[00:40:45] Uh, like there's, you know, they're, they're not just mindless necessarily. Um, and you know, and even, and even if they were, they were once people and deserve to be remembered as people. Um, and then it, in the end kind of turns that on its head by turning it into a video game. It becomes basically becomes dead rising, like us out of the blue. Mm. But I think there is.

[00:41:15] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think especially the end was, uh, shocking to non-Brits. Um, and I think that, uh, I mean, I think it was shocking to Brits as well, but in, in a more recognizable ways and it's more jarring to people who are not. And I love about this film because 28 weeks later veered into like, Oh, what if we had the American military occupying so that we can make all the characters American.

[00:41:41] And, um, 28 years later is back toward like, no, this is a British film. Um, and, uh, this is, so there's, I called them Ninja Neds, uh, which, because my Scottish friends taught me that Neds are Scottish chavs. Um, and the, I don't, I mean, okay. I don't know how to explain this if anyone doesn't know, but just like, uh,

[00:42:07] I think it was more like of a thing in the nineties or something, but just, um, um, just sort of, yeah, the way that they're dressed, especially in the way that they're talking and stuff, um, was giving me that. But, uh, we have, we know British people who pointed out to us that, uh, they seem to especially be modeled after Jimmy Saville or Saville. I'm sorry if I'm saying this wrong, but he was a sort of like Mr. Rogers kind of character on children's TV.

[00:42:36] But then it turns out that he's, he had been investigated for sexual abuse of minors dating all the way back to the late fifties. And this was repressed and hidden over and over and over until his death in 2011 when the BBC did an expose about it. Um, so this is like, you know, the Brits were explaining to us that this is like akin for an American to the Cosby scandal where you're like, whoa, um,

[00:43:04] my childhood is very different now, but that didn't come out, um, really until 2011. And, um, Jimmy was a child during the apocalypse in 2002. So he wouldn't know about any of this. So he might be idolizing someone without realizing the full extent person. Yeah. So it's interesting, but also it seems like he's, he, we see his father gave him

[00:43:33] his cross when he said go hide. And now we see that he has the cross upside down, which is sort of, um, more of an antichrist thing, but, uh, being satanic doesn't mean that you're a mean person. It's just kind of more of like a statement against it's kind of a punk statement in a lot of ways. I mean, it could be a statement against his father. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. His father's faith, his father, you know, piousness that led him to openly embrace death in the way that he did.

[00:44:04] Yeah. So. Yeah. It's a lot going on with Jimmy. Yeah. I can't wait to find out, um, what they've been up to because we saw like we, at one point we see this hanging man with Jimmy carved into his chest and then we see Jimmy scrawled into a Bible Bible verse on the side of a building. It says, behold, he is coming with the clouds. So it seems like they've been doing interesting things in the area, but, uh, spikes about to find out about.

[00:44:33] You say interesting things. Mm-hmm. Interesting things. Being charitable on this. Yeah. Um, okay. But let's, let's jump to the main story, starting with, uh, act one, the Causeway crossings where, where 28 years after Teletubby time. And what, what did you think Riley of the fact that 28 weeks later was sort of dealt with in two lines of onscreen text?

[00:45:01] Um, you know, I maybe like laugh just a tiny bit. I mean, it's, cause it's, it's a solid movie, but it was just like, you know, is that, is it believable that a virus that spreads like that would be like contained like after it got to like mainland Europe? And it's like, I don't think so, but also the movie is much more interesting this way. So I will forgive it.

[00:45:30] I will give it grace there. So that's kind of, that was kind of my, uh, my take on that. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's still room now they can make the 28 months later where they flatten Paris because I do not see how else they're doing this. No, what did you think show? No, I, I, I was fine. Yeah. I was fine with it. I, you know, my, my head cannon, I have so much going on.

[00:45:58] So just, I just add another, another chapter to it. So I was cool with it. I was, I was all right. I didn't give it much because, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, I really, I really liked that it went back to just being a British issue, like that isolation, especially in, in terms of, you know, I, I tend to look at a lot of the stuff that we watch in political ways. Right. And I immediately thought of Brexit, right.

[00:46:25] Where they anxiously wanting to keep people out and as well as push people out. And now, you know, it's like, can we get out? Can we get out? And the world is saying, no, you can't. You know what I mean? Like, no, you can't. So it was really, I, I, I liked that dynamic where it's just really a closed society.

[00:46:49] And what would happen, what would happen if that were to occur? You know, you're isolated completely from the rest of the world for 28 years. What does that do to your, to a people, to a society, to a culture? You know, what do you move back to? Where do you go from there? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:16] And it was watching it to the absence of, of color, right. The absence of people of color is, is jarring to me as well. Right. Except the one alpha. Yeah. Yeah. Except, you know, except for the alpha, which is, again, that's a choice. Right. That's a choice that the, that they're making to make the alpha the person of color, to make the alpha a person of color. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:44] And a movie that doesn't have people of color in it. Yeah. Right. So there's a lot going on that if I had a chance to talk to the filmmakers, I would definitely ask, like, what's their intent behind some of these things? Well, I, I have some thoughts. So let's get into this setting. So that opening was apparently in the Scottish highlands, which by the way, it's funny. We had Jack O'Connell played an Irishman playing a Southerner in Sinners.

[00:48:13] And now he's playing a Scotsman, but he's actually from Derbyshire, which is in the north of England. But, but yeah. So, but the, the film, most of it was filmed in North England around Northumberland and Yorkshire. Um, and particularly that, that village is Lindisfarne, which is also called a Holy Island, um, which yeah, is in Northumberland.

[00:48:39] And, uh, it does have that, it has a more modern causeway, but it also has that indeed that old causeway, although they shot a lot of that inside and they did the overhead shots with CGI, but this was, uh, this is a real location. Um, and it's, uh, did either of you watch Vikings? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I've watched it. In the first season, there's, you see the Vikings do a raid on the English coast and that was here, uh, at Lindisfarne.

[00:49:07] And that is a historical event that actually happened at the monastery there. Yeah. But so it's, it's this, you know, it's this castle with a moat literally. Um, and, and they really drive the, um, drive the idea home with these insert shots of medieval footage, uh, from, I think it was from like Henry V, the Shakespeare movie anyway. And, uh, these post-World War II inserts as well.

[00:49:34] And, and also we get later in the movie, Isla gives that speech about falling back through time. And how far back have we fallen through time now? A thousand years. So I think that we are supposed to see that they are regressing. And I wonder if since Isla, Jodi Comer, um, you know, that means I island, does the island have cancer? Like she has cancer. You know, we see the traditional gender roles.

[00:50:04] We see things getting a bit more old fashioned where they don't even do anything about medicine to help people who are dying, even though they must've all known it was cancer. I don't know. Uh, thoughts? Did they, did they know? Like she knew, I knew before the time, by the time they talked to the doctor, I'm like, Oh my God, she has a brain tumor. Right. But, you know, I think some of the thing is for me is like, what's lost? What, what type of knowledge is lost in, in that isolation?

[00:50:34] Like you said that it was like a, they regressed and you can see it. And when they, when we first visited the island, we first saw the island in the community, the, their clothing stuck out to me because it looked old timey for some reason. And I just felt like this was like something out of the 19, early 1900s, late 1800s, you know what I mean?

[00:51:00] Um, so when you just said, you know, that they, the regression, you know, that I remember that. So I'm asking myself, like, what else have they lost? Right. Did they lose? What other kinds of things did they lose in losing access to the rest of the world? What has the rage wires taken from them besides people, right? Besides the, the ability to, to journey besides their freedom really, because they're, they're

[00:51:29] like prisoners. They're prisoners. They're prisoners of the zombies and they're prisoners, prisoners of the rest of the world who won't let them leave. Mm-hmm. But I do, I think it's notable that, you know, Britain is not an island without people of color, this community, the fact that, uh, there is a noted lack. I just, I do wonder if this is a, um, if it's not like, it looks cozy and it looks safe, you

[00:51:57] know, it looks like somewhere to aspire to, but I'm wondering if, like I said, if, if there's a cancer in, in the community and once we see more of other communities, then yeah, it might become clear that to, to, I keep wanting to call him Alfie, to Spike, that maybe home wasn't everything that he thought that it was all, you know, cause he didn't knows no better. He knows no different.

[00:52:24] I mean, I think he kind of, you know, by the end of the movie, he kind of realizes that too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, just cause for reasons we're probably about to get into in regards to. We can bring it up. All right. Uh, well, you know, like there was the, the Ralph Fien. I never, I never know how to pronounce his last name. I'm so sorry. Ray Fiennes. Ray Fiennes. Fiennes? Okay. I'm so.

[00:52:51] Yeah, I know it's that, that, that one, people make fun of him to his face about it all the time. He's like, I know. Yeah. So it's like, you know, they, let me see Aaron Taylor, Johnson's character. Jamie. Jamie. He tells Spike the story about, you know, how they saw him kind of just not just like cremate, but like take the bones or the skulls and the. Well, he was, he saw them lining up the bodies. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:53:21] Uh, so it's just like the, you know, they were like, that man is bizarre, but it's like, if you didn't know anything about the culture on the aisle, uh, if you didn't know anything about them, you know, you'd say some things are kind of weird with you too. Absolutely. Yep. Uh, so it's kind of, and it's kind of, if you don't see like once again, have that

[00:53:50] compassion and, you know, try to understand, uh, and see other people, not just as potential dangers, but as people. Um, I don't, I think the place wouldn't be symbolically of cancer. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like that, um, this whole premise is ripe for a whole bunch of different stories

[00:54:18] because I imagine like doomsday, every, that film that everyone should watch from 2008, which is gloriously bad. It's so good. It's so bad. Um, but I imagine that each community is wildly different because it would be built from scratch based on the people who are left behind and whoever took leadership there. Like, like in this community at one point, Alfie says they don't have, they only have the

[00:54:45] photographs from before, but actually photography and like developing photographs. That's a pretty, that's not that difficult. I am sure there are lots of communities that are still taking new photographs. They have the technology still. Um, I imagine that there's some hacker community somewhere where they've figured out how to connect to the satellite internet. You know, I want to see all of that stuff. You know, I'm, I'm not so sure.

[00:55:14] I'm not so sure because, you know what? Yeah. Because what we know so far is that this is a, this seems like a, a very medieval, a very medieval village, you know? Yeah. That one. Yeah. With the walls. But that's why I want to see the other stuff. What if there's no other stuff? That's why I want to see the hacker bunkers elsewhere. We, there's, of course there's other villages, the other pockets of survivors in Britain.

[00:55:42] And I bet each one is wildly different. Well, we saw the Jimmies. They are definitely wildly different. But how far, how far from, from where Spike is are those places? Yeah, I know. It would take some traveling. Like, how far from where Spike is? Like, if you've got a gang of Jimmies. No cars. Mm-hmm. No horses. No trains. There's horses. You know, trains. There's horses. They were riding horses.

[00:56:10] Because remember, the horses were, the animals, the animals were not affected. And we also saw several herd of deer. I'm not suggesting they try to tame a deer. But the animals seem to have not been affected. Right. So we didn't see any of those modes of transport. So it seems like they're getting around on foot. So how long and how far? Weeks. How long could Spike last? He's got a bunch of Jimmies now. You could find a bicycle.

[00:56:40] You trust the Jimmies? No, but he was- Okay, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So how long could Spike last? It's better than being on his own. How long could he last? All right, well, let's talk about Spike's first outing. So we kind of referred to this. But Jamie, basically, he wants to take Spike on his first trip off the island to get his first kill.

[00:57:06] And we hear that, you know, this is usually something that's safe for when someone's 14 or 15 and Spike is 12. So it's like, Jamie, I don't know if you're winning dad of the year for this one. And meanwhile, Ola, Ola, what am I saying? Isla. She's not well because of the brain tumor, but it's not clear at first. And I think it's interesting how they laid that out.

[00:57:33] How at first she just seems like, I think they did it in such a way that allowed people to have a judgmental first reaction. Where they're like, oh, she's a drug addict or an alcoholic or something like that. And then they revealed over time, you start to see like, oh, the memory problems, the nose bleeds. And then that's when it becomes clearer and clearer to modern viewers who know medicine. Oh, she probably has a brain tumor.

[00:58:00] And that's why I think everyone in the village must have seen that too. But anyway, she's not happy about Spike going off the island. You're giving the villagers a lot of, you know. If I could notice it and I saw her for an hour, then I think that they know. I think for sure Jamie knew. But you're not under the duress of the zombies. You're not under the duress of this changing world. They're not either. They live in their happy little island. You think that island is happy? Oh, Lord have mercy.

[00:58:29] I mean, I think they think that island is happy. I don't think that island is happy. I think they think that island is a place to escape. Escape and happiness are two different things. I mean. It's kind of back to the first movie, you know. Yes. You know, it's surviving living. Yes. Let's listen to that lowly clip again.

[00:58:58] It's very upbeat. And this is showing like, this is when they're just making breakfast and it's like, oh, it's school today because we go to school every day.

[00:59:27] Except today we're going on a special field trip. Well, they chose. Yes, he chose too young, but it was a choice to do that. It wasn't done under duress. It was just like, boy, it's time to bludgeon. You're a man now. Exactly. Yeah. I don't want to be part of that community. No, I know. That's what I'm saying. It has a cancer. There's no happiness in there. For me, viewing that community, there was no happiness to me.

[00:59:54] There were people who were living and there were people who were, you know, trying to make the best of what they have. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But is that really happiness? I mean, they were. Is that really. Yeah. Yeah. Like a Viking lawn house, you know. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I liked how they incorporated Rudyard Kipling's Boots poem again on the, as they were leaving. Boots, boots, boots. Yeah. So creepy.

[01:00:23] It's from World War I, for anyone who doesn't know. So it's just about the relentless, unforgiving march of. And I guess this speaks to what you're saying, Jean, that it's just this relentless, unforgiving, one step in front of the other, the human race moves forward. Or the British race moves forward. Right. The British people. Because apparently they're fine in Sweden.

[01:00:48] So we talked in the last episode about the circle of influences, specifically with The Last of Us. And I think we see that in the types of infected that we have, the virus has evolved in different directions in different people. There's like different mutations. So we first meet the slow lows, who are just like creeping across the ground. Apparently the virus makes you burn so many calories.

[01:01:17] They're just like creeping across the ground, eating any worms and bugs that they come across. I mean, those were nasty. Yeah. Can we take a pause real quick? For me to say, oh, I saw those things on the ground. I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not, oh, this is bad. I thought it was bad, bad.

[01:01:40] And then when they're in the forest and the one that's creeping up behind Jamie, I'm like, turn around. Turn around. What are you doing, dude? Like, turn around, turn around. And then they had the little baby one. I'm like, oh, no. Kill it. Kill it. Kill it. No. See, I had the opposite. I had Jamie's reaction when the kid came out. So Jamie shoots the son. And then he's about to shoot the little girl. And Jamie's like, yeah.

[01:02:10] And he stops. And the little girl runs away. And there was this moment. She was just a little girl standing there. And I think this was a moment where Spike started asking himself, like, are we the baddies? Are we the baddies? You're not the bad. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're killing the children? Yes. Yes. You know, obviously, we'll talk in a little bit about that birthing scene. But there is still humanity in there. Yeah.

[01:02:40] I was actually kind of, I found those to be the scariest infected. Because it's kind of like, it's kind of like it follows in a little bit. In the sense of, you know, like, sure, it only walks. But it's always walking towards you. So no matter where you are, it will find you eventually.

[01:03:06] And it's like, so it's like, you have that paranoia, like, all the time. I just like, I'd be like, I can't even sleep. I just think about the Crawley, the Crawley guys. Oh, gosh. Yeah. They were creepy. Yeah. Super creepy. Keep some worms next to you, I guess. Distract them. Yeah. I mean, but that was also the creepy thing, like, not to jump ahead for a sec.

[01:03:34] But when the one's creeping up on a spike sleeping and starts, like, sees it, finds a shoelace and starts eating it like it's a worm. Yeah. Yeah. And then we've got the good old-fashioned zombies. They don't realize they're supposed to call them that. But maybe for the next movie. It's canon now. It's canon. Yeah.

[01:04:02] I mean, obviously, we've talked about that ad nauseum, but for, I think it's pretty clear, they're zombies, but they go fast. That's totally different. They're actually alive, you know? Right. And then we have the new scary scaries, the alphas. And they're the ones who have got, like, the steroids version of the virus. So they are extra strong, but they're also smarter than the others.

[01:04:29] Like, it's harder to hide from them because they will remember where you're hiding and look for you there. I mean, it's a great addition to zombie lore. Yeah. Because it was just like, when they first mention the alpha and you see it's like a head taller than everyone else. And you're like, what the fuck is that? You know what I mean? Like, what?

[01:04:58] I literally said to myself, what the fuck is that? Yeah. And he's standing straighter. Just straight. That's like, there's no bend. It's just like straight. So you really see this is a creature that is predatory because it's looking straight so it can see above everything to know where its prey is. And that freaked me the hell out.

[01:05:29] It freaked me the hell out. Yeah. Because that was, I wasn't expecting that. Right? I wasn't expecting to see something that was bigger, taller, just massive in stature be added to the zombies.

[01:05:51] Because a lot of the zombies that I know that are bigger, they're also, you know, bigger in girth. Not necessarily, you know, like muscular and super fast. You know? Like bloaters. This was not a bloater. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then he's like, yo, we got to watch out for that one because all our arrows are not going to be enough.

[01:06:21] Mm-hmm. I was reminded of the, like, Berserker from Gears of War. I don't know if either of you played that game. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But even kind of more frightening because one, it can see. And two, it has intelligence. Whereas Berserker just, like, runs through everything. Right.

[01:06:42] Well, that is, yeah, we hear Eric, the Swede, he refers to them as Berserk, which is, yeah, like Swedish for Berserker, I'm assuming. I did not do that intentionally, but I will pretend I did. Okay. And we have to talk about the elephant dong in the room. Everyone's talking about the nakedness.

[01:07:07] And I just have to say, logically, I think, yes, that it makes sense they would be naked. Why would they put on clothing? Any genitalia that was present was prosthetics because of laws around filming with children. They couldn't actually be naked, so they're wearing prosthetics. But I think this is another American-British divide thing again because, like, UK audiences are like, what, have you not seen naked attraction?

[01:07:37] Like, all these other naked shows that we've done? Like, do you guys, have you ever heard of naked attraction? Are you familiar with that? Never. No. No. So, basically, it's a dating show, but someone will be, the person who's being considered is naked, and there's, like, a doorway that starts at their feet and just starts going up, up, up, gradually.

[01:08:02] As this, the conversation between the would-be-dater and these people until, yeah, they just are revealed naked. Yeah, kind of glad that I haven't heard of this. Nah, it's just a body. It's just a body, yeah. Everyone has one. Everybody has them.

[01:08:25] I mean, I have to say, both times I watch it, also because they're, like, dirty or whatever, and they don't, they're not acting really human, so I didn't think about it in any sort of sexual way. I never, I never thought about it. Yeah. I never thought, because I was, it just, they were too frightening for me, and I was so concerned with Spike that I never even gave it a thought that they're not wearing clothes. Yeah.

[01:08:55] It was just, like, run, kid, run. Yeah. You know, that's the only thing that came to my mind, was, like, run. Like, literally, run, kid. Every time, run, kid, run. Run faster. Get up. Faster. Go. Just, it was just, yeah, those scenes were really, ah, man. Yeah.

[01:09:15] So, which, okay, how would you rank, from least to most harrowing, the opening scene with the breakout with a child Jimmy, the whole sequence about the alpha and the zombies chasing them into this collapsing house, or the running back across the causeway scene? How would you rank those three? Cool. Causeway's number one for me. Mm-hmm.

[01:09:45] That was the most chilling for me. The opening, and then the house. Okay. What about you, Riley? See, part of me wants to have the house number one, because I do not like tight quarters. Oh, okay. All right. That makes sense. So, I'm like, you know, I don't like the idea of being boxed in. Mm-hmm. So, that kind of played into that.

[01:10:11] But, I mean, they were all very, like, frightening sequences, very tense sequences in their own way. I mean, the opening sequence is possibly the most disturbing in the sense that, you know, all those kids, they're... Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but... That, that causeway sequence was incredibly well shot, and just...

[01:10:39] There's no bad answers here, is what I'm trying to say. Mm-hmm. Yeah, one thing I didn't say about the opening that I really thought was cool was, you know, it just opens with this really mundane scene of a bunch of kids watching the Teletubbies, and then when there's first a disturbance, it's just like a... Two adults fighting and kind of offhandedly yelling at a child. So, all the kids look up like, oh, no, there's a disturbance. Oh, it's just like, and not a big deal, you know? Right. It's just somebody snapping at somebody.

[01:11:10] Um, and then just how quickly and clearly it escalates from there. It's like, oh my God, oh my God. Right. That really gets you into it. Um, I think... I liked that the whole house collapsing sequence had a built-in moment of respite where we got to have some father-son time, where they're sort of forced to talk in ways they might not otherwise, and, you know, view the fire and set all of that up.

[01:11:37] I think that that was great as a plot device, but yeah, for me, it's the causeway. I was, oh, I was just... And also, like, they get halfway across the causeway and start screaming. I'm like, shut up and keep going. What do you mean? Shut up and keep going. You know what I... Don't fall off. Even though I don't blame you. I was like, blow the whistle. Blow the whistle. I knew you had... Where's the whistle? Where's the whistle? Blow the whistle. And then he finally blew the whistle.

[01:12:07] I'm like, yes, blow the whistle, the whistle. What are we doing? Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. That had my heart pounding. And then when Spike fell... Uh-huh. Oh, God. And he's grabbing him. Get up. Yeah, get up. Run, run. He's like, I can't. I can't. Yes, you can. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, man. Oh, man. They apparently spent three or four days filming just that sequence, because also they did it

[01:12:33] with, like, the different cameras, like, these wraparound iPhone things to really get the movement looking very visceral and, whew. But to have that thing just honed in on you. Mm-hmm. And it's going like... Just a beeline, yeah. Yeah, just making a straight beeline toward you. Not tiring. At all. Mm-mm. That is some shit. Irrelevant to everything. I just imagined, like, Gandalf. Thou shalt not pass.

[01:13:07] It's just unrelated to everything. That's just how my mind works sometimes. But, yeah, they make it back at all in that moment, too, where it's like, just give it a second. Just give it a second. Like, they've killed the thing, but they're panicking, clearly. You know, I understand why they're just like... Their adrenaline is, like, ringing in their ears, I'm sure, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But they make it back, and they collapse inside. And this is a good spot for us also to take a quick break, and when we get back, we're

[01:13:37] going to talk about the next venture outside the gates. All right. So, we are back on the island, and there's a celebration party for Spike. Spike's not so into it, and Jamie is too into it.

[01:14:07] I guess, Sean, this is where you start to... I mean, were you already turning against Jamie at this point? I was already anti-Jamie. Yeah? I was anti-Jamie as soon as they... As soon as it was clear that they were going off the island, I was already anti-Jamie. Why are you taking a 12-year-old? Yeah. I was anti-Jamie in the woods, you know, trying to get his son to make his first kill. So, like, that's a thing, right? For him.

[01:14:37] Mm-hmm. But the party just made it completely... Turned it completely for me. Like, get this guy out of here. Kick rocks, Jamie. And his son... You can see his son making those calculations. Mm-hmm. You can see Spike making those... You know, like... The hell? None of that happened, dude. That's not true. He's, like, telling, you know, stories to build Spike up in the eyes of the community. Yeah.

[01:15:07] But it's also, I think, for him. I think it's for him as well. Yeah. I mean, but I was listening to those stories again on my second watch, and I feel like he... I mean, obviously, he had the best intentions, and he was... He's... He doesn't necessarily get his son in the same way that Isla does. Um... But I think that he was right in the fact that what was most important is that Spike

[01:15:33] does seem to have some nerves of steel where he didn't panic, and he would just reload and try again. And maybe he didn't make... He was actually hitting them, even if it wasn't, like, on target. He was hitting them in the leg or something. So he's not completely lying, and he thinks he's bigging up his son's confidence, and he doesn't realize that's not how his son works. Um... But I think he's easy... I don't even think he thinks he's building up his son's confidence, which is the problem that I had.

[01:16:01] I think he genuinely admires his son, though. I think that was honest. Huh. What he said to him when they were in that house. What do you think, Riley? Uh... I think his love for his son is genuine. It's just, uh... You know, it's slowly, like, through... As, like... He starts out kind of like, okay, he's a dad. You know, he's just doing dad stuff. You know, take his son out. Is he... Just going hunting.

[01:16:56] Um... Like, how he approached... How he approached the... Spike's confrontation. Uh... Uh... And, like, no, this is a bad place to be right now. And I agree with both of you. He does love Spike. Mm-hmm. I'm not questioning that at all. Mm-hmm. He obviously loves his son. Mm-hmm. But I think a lot of what he's doing is not for Spike. Mm-hmm. It's for him.

[01:17:26] It's for his own... His own feeling of, A, I've gotten him to this point. B, I'm watching what he's accomplished in the ways that I've done. I want him to accomplish those things. In the eyes of everyone else, you can see what my son is. Mm-hmm. So it's more of a... It's more of a look at me by looking at him.

[01:17:54] To me, that's the vibe that I got from Jamie. And I just couldn't shake it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, obviously, wandering off with Rosie is not for his son. That's for him. But even that, I think it's wrong. I see why he's doing it because he's so frustrated with Isla's situation. I do think he must know.

[01:18:22] He knows that she's dying because what else could it be? And he just doesn't know how to deal with it. And so he drinks and sleeps with someone else. And it's not the right way to do it. But I think that's where it's coming from. I don't know. I think... I do think there's some telling things. Like, I think he handled the whole... At one point, Spike pulls a knife on him. And I think the fact that Spike pulls a knife on him is, first of all, Jamie's fault for this whole machoism thing that he's trying to instill in his son.

[01:18:53] But the way he handles it is he takes it from him. He just shows, like, I can take it. You can see he's really angry, but he gives the knife back to his son, you know, like... And then punches a wall on the way out. So I think he's not the best dude, but I think he could be a lot worse. However... For sure. I can't believe he didn't chase after Spike and Isla when they left on their own. I know it's a rule. I know it's a rule.

[01:19:21] You're not allowed to follow, but I don't know. What do we think... Riley, what do we think morally about Spike setting the fire and distracting the guard tower people to get Isla off the island? Because that's putting everyone in danger. That is putting everyone in danger. And it's kind of one of those, well, it works, so it's okay.

[01:19:46] But also, you know, if I was, like, not Spike and if I was everyone else and then I realized what he did, I'd probably be pretty pissed. Yeah. What was in that house he burned down? Yeah. I don't know. It looked like... Yeah. It looked like provisions or something. Yeah. That's... Yeah. That's... If it's got provisions in it, then I'd be really mad.

[01:20:17] That's one of the points in the movie where I just wanted to shake him by the shoulders and, like, go to your room. Like, go to your room. Like, what are you doing? Go to your room. That's not fires. What are you doing here? Only you can prevent island fires. Fires. Yeah.

[01:20:38] I mean, I wonder if that might be something that he's going to have to deal with some consequences with in the next film because, like, he didn't come back even at the end of this film. He just, yeah, he didn't face his reckoning for what he did to get out. I loved... Maybe this whole journey to the doctor is maybe my favorite stretch of the film, personally. Mm-hmm.

[01:21:08] I think... I love that we got to see more of who Isla is outside of this just being confined to her bed and freaking out. Yeah. I love that middle-of-the-night mama bear moment. You know, I talked about the slow-low sneaking up on his shoes, and then we see her grab him with a bag and take it out. And she doesn't remember the next morning, but it shows. Like, she's still in there. She's still going to guard her son until the end. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[01:21:38] And I love that we got... People are always complaining that they don't do gas right in Apocalypse films because it would actually, you know, degrade, as we saw here. So they actually did the gassy gas station and did that for a stunt. So that was pretty cool. Mm-hmm. What did you think, Sean, of Eric, the stranded Swedish coast guard? Yeah, I felt bad for him. He didn't want any of this. No. No.

[01:22:08] No. He didn't want... He just wanted to go home. He was just patrolling, and now he's stuck, and he knows he's not getting out. And he knows... And he's watched his squad mates go one by one. Mm-hmm. I mean, that... And he died horrifically. Yeah. It's pretty brutal. Yeah. Yeah. He died a terrible death. So just really... Yeah, I was sad for him. I was sad for him.

[01:22:38] Mm-hmm. Because watching him carry Isla just... It's just like, you know, this is somebody who I don't think it's built for what he signed up for. Mm-hmm. Because if you sign up for the duty, then you have to know that this is what might happen. This might could happen. You might get stranded. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:23:06] And I don't think he was built for the might get stranded part of it. Yeah. Riley, did your theater have any big reactions to any scenes? And how did this sequence compare? Well, for just Eric in general or the back or like the ending of... Or the finale of Eric. Was that the loudest response in your theater? I mean, there was...

[01:23:33] That was a pretty shocking moment. You know, also him trying to potentially kill the pregnant zombie. Mm-hmm. Or the zombie that just gave him birth. Which he did, yeah. Yeah. And then the baby as well. You know, I think he... The character just introduced both moments of gravity.

[01:24:02] I mean, he's kind of an asshole, but that's kind of what makes him a little funny. Mm-hmm. And his kind of is understand... And his perspective is understandable. Yeah. But it also reinforces like a lot of the themes of the movie as well as his character does in the sense of... Once again, dehumanization in the sense of... You know, if you're from the outside, it's easy to look at bad news on the phone, bad news of things. And just think, well, it's happening over there.

[01:24:30] So it's like, oh, of course it's terrible. But also, you know, it's kind of... It's separate from you to a certain extent. Right. And so you kind of lose a little bit of compassion if we try to process the world like that. And then there's also kind of the... There's kind of this lost in translation in the sense of when Eric talks to Spike about certain things.

[01:24:56] And Spike just doesn't understand like certain references or technology or things like that. And it's kind of that same... You know, they both probably think they're both kind of weird. In the sense that they don't exactly understand what they've both been through in this to a certain extent for their lives. I love that. But yeah, I loved Eric as a character and... Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:26] That interaction that he had with Spike that you just brought up, I love that. Yeah. That Spike didn't know what he was holding. That Spike didn't know. He's looking at the picture of his girlfriend. He's like, what's wrong with her? That got the biggest reaction. Yeah. That got the biggest reaction both times that I watched it. The biggest laugh was, what's wrong with her face? What's wrong with her? There's something wrong with her. She's sick. What's wrong with her? She's like, oh, I know a girl. She had shellfish allergy.

[01:25:55] Yeah. And the other big laugh was when Isla stands up at the end of this impromptu picnic and she's like, all right, let's go. And Eric goes, she can walk? Yes. Yes. All this time I've been carrying this lady on my back. And she can walk. What the hell? Yeah.

[01:26:16] But I mean, I think that's just like such an ultimate risk where you just think you probably, I mean, another point, Jamie points out to Spike, like there's a boat that's patrolling. He's probably French, which makes sense because they're closest or Dutch actually in that part. But yeah, there's how many boats a day probably circle this island to patrol?

[01:26:43] And it's just such a risk where you just think I'm going to go home and it's going to be nothing and I'm going to order DoorDash or whatever. And your boat goes down and you're stuck. And like even if you survive, this is your life. Now. Right. Because once you step foot on the soil, that's it. You're not coming back. They're not coming to get you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:27:10] I was so I was a little bummed for Eric that he died. Although, yeah. So we have this. We have the Zumbie midwife moment where Isla, she hears this zombie woman, you know, infected woman yelling and she's in labor.

[01:27:57] And Isla, yeah. Delilah because the other one's called Samson. Eric kills Delilah and then Samson immediately rips his head and spine. And by the way, what about those memento mori? Like that's like a mirror of Dr. Dr. Kelson's skull sculptures. Yeah. They have the skull like predator style with the backbone attached. Like is he doing that because of Kelson? Is that learned behavior?

[01:28:28] Hmm. Oh, interesting. Is it just like that's what I thought. I was like. Mm-hmm. Maybe. Yeah. That's a good point. What's he doing is because he's seeing Kelson, you know, proper bones and skulls and. Right. Because we see it one time he hangs. He puts the head of the deer in the spine of the tree. Right. Yeah. Like these. Yeah. Like a trophy. So I have a question. Okay.

[01:28:54] Where everyone is in agreement that that is Samson's baby. Yeah, I think so. And I think. So, okay. So the baby's born not infected, which is chilling because it means that the parents infect them after birth all the time. Right. But I think Samson later when he's going after them in the bone temple, I think that he's going for the baby. And so that makes me worry for the next movie about the fact that the baby's in that island town.

[01:29:24] I feel like Samson's going to go after the baby there. Do you think, why do we think they want the baby? He wants the baby. Because it's his baby. To raise the baby or to eat it? No, I think. I mean, they have the children. We saw the children earlier too. I think that they did. It's their baby and they wanted. Yeah. They want their baby. But then it's like, you're going to infect the baby. Yeah. I mean. How do you infect the baby? Were they. Blood in the mouth.

[01:29:53] God have mercy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But that's must be. We've seen there's several infected children. That must be. And just the fact that they're still alive now, 28 years later. They're. Yeah. Were they like newborn infected or were they survived infected? I mean, there's. The children that we saw. The children that we saw were. Must have been infected as babies.

[01:30:21] Because they're younger than 28. They're children. I know. So were they infected the original virus? 28 years? Well, yeah. I mean, I think. Are they. So. So I think. Were they infected along the way this past 28 years? Or were they born to infect it? That's. That's my question. I think that they're saying. I think this is saying they're born to infected. And the placenta protects them from the infection.

[01:30:48] But after they're born, obviously they're being handled by the infected parents and getting their blood or whatever. And I don't know. Maybe they bite them even. But they don't eat them because we saw the children there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I don't know. I don't think they. I don't. I'm not saying that. I don't think they eat them either. Part of me says they don't eat them. Part of me is like. They might be eating these babies.

[01:31:19] They eat them. I have to quote an interview with the vampire where. Where Eric. Where the interviewer asks. Ask Louis. Did you eat the baby? Did you eat the baby? You eat the baby. The baby. Did you eat the baby? Anyway. So. That's a question I have. I really want to know. Like. Yeah. I mean.

[01:31:48] Those kids like. You know. Born. Or those kids. Infected along the way. I think they're telling us that they're born. I mean. I don't think that there's many. It's not clear to me. I don't know. It's not clear to me. All right. All right. We'll see. We'll see. Would you have a thought on this Riley? I could. I think it could be a bit of both. But I'm guessing. I'm leaning more towards that they're born. And grow. Whereas.

[01:32:18] You know. There's probably not as many communities. Like the. Like the one on the aisle. Though there's probably definitely a few. But. There's probably not enough to make like. A lot of kid. Right. If the. If things go south. So I. I'd imagine that. There's some reproduction. Yeah. Because our bodies are still alive. So. Yeah. I'm hoping we get into all this lore in the. Coming movies. And also. Yeah. I need answers.

[01:32:48] The other intriguing. Character. That we only got teased really in this. Is Dr. Ian Kelson. Ralph Fiennes himself. So. We talked to Riley. You brought up. Jamie's spooky story about him. Or. Or that he and Sam. By the way. Sam. Bless his heart. I feel like Sam's totally dead next movie. I'm like surprise me. And don't kill him. But yes. So. They.

[01:33:17] They tell. Spike the whole story. And Spike's like. Okay. So. We're going to take mom. To go see the doctor. And find out what's wrong with her. And. And dad's like. Oh. But this whole thing. You know. So then he goes. And. And he gets the explanation. For everything. Like he's. He's covered in red. Because he covers himself. In iodine. Because it's helping to prevent the virus. From getting to him. Because he's a doctor. And he knows that. And he was lining up all the bodies. To burn them. And turn it into this. Giant bone temple. Which.

[01:33:46] What a cool design. Yeah. It was pretty metal. Yeah. I respect that. Honestly. It was. It was. Yeah. Why do you think. Why do you think. That Dr. Kelson. Would rather live on his own. Than in that community. That's a good question. I didn't think about it. Watching the. Watching the film. Well. They didn't talk to him. I mean. You know. They. Just. Like the. Judged him as.

[01:34:17] You know. As being. Strange. And being weird. And they. Just kind of judged him. Even though. You know. Like everyone. They're trying to do the best. They can. Given the circumstances. Right. And you know. And people are processing. Clearly processing. Like this. Traumatic. Ongoing event. In their own ways. So. You know. Maybe if. If he talked to them.

[01:34:46] Or if they talked to him. Maybe. He could have moved. Or maybe. But you know. I guess we'll. We won't know. The answer to that. Unfortunately. I mean. It seems like. Go ahead. Go ahead Alicia. I was going to say. It seems like he could be the most important. Member of the community. Because not only is he a doctor. But he also. Knows how to subdue. He's got those zombie tranks. Yep. Yeah. He's figured that out. Yeah. He would. I just.

[01:35:16] You know. He would be valuable in that community. I just don't know if he would. Morally. Jive with it. Yeah. Is this a bit like. You know. Forgoing health care. Because. You think that. It. Is against. God. Or something like that. No. I don't. I don't think they have the means. What do you mean? I mean. I mean. Why. Why not approach this doctor. That they know is nearby.

[01:35:47] Ever. Because he's collecting dead bodies. And erasing them on the ground. Momentum mori. Right. So I can. Yeah. I can see. Why they're. They're steering clear from him. And I understand why he's steering clear from them as well. Since you asked the question. I thought. I'm like. It seems like he has. An idea of what he wants to do with his time. That he has left. Right. He's building something. He's building a monument to those who have.

[01:36:16] Who have passed away. To keep their. Their memories. Whoever they were. To keep them here still. Right. To keep them alive. To. To say that these people were here. And that's what he's doing. So. I don't think he would live in any community. Because I think he's committed himself to. The preservation of these. People's memories. Okay. Okay. Yeah. We have. Yeah. So. He says. Memento mori. Remember death.

[01:36:47] And then adds to that later. Memento amoris. Remember love. Am I the only one who cried. During everything with Isla. And the. Saying goodbye. And the. Putting her skull. On top of the pile of skulls. To look at the sunrise. I was emotional. Yeah. I didn't cry. I didn't cry. I was just like. Don't fall. Spike please. You know.

[01:37:16] You were emotional Riley. I was emotional. Because. You know. It's. As is like a sequence. Like. From an outsider. You'd be like. This is. Horrifying. And bizarre. But there's actually. You know. Given context. It's. Kind of beautiful. In its own way. Just. You know. It's how. They're honoring. Their dad. And. It's how. Spike's honoring her. The memory of his mother. Yeah. And just because she's not with us.

[01:37:46] Doesn't mean that. He'll forget her. Yeah. Yeah. That's what. You know. Kelson wants. Yeah. I mean. And for Spike. He. He brought her there. With the hope. Oh. And just. It broke my heart. When Spike's like. There's got to be some medicine. Somewhere. Like. Oh. Honey. When there's. Metastasized. Brain cancer. That. It's. It's. No. There's nothing. That could have been done before. At this point. Either. Right. And he. Of course. Why would he have any understanding of that? Of course.

[01:38:16] He has no understanding of that. Because. Even the people who know. Know anything about medicine. Haven't been talking to him about it. And. So he just has to. In this. In this moment. You know. He's been given the framework. By Dr. Kelson. And now has this moment. To just. Accept. That. He was. His mother was in pain. He saw her in pain. For how long? And now. She's out of fame. And she. He can.

[01:38:45] Put her on top. Of the monument. To look at the sunrise. And. Dawn. In Britain. Hopefully. Can I tell you my stupidest. What if. Theory. From this film? Absolutely. And they're never stupid. So. Well. Okay. So I think. Like 90%. Probably. It happened. Exactly. The way it seems. Where. Dr. Kelson. Helped. Isla. End her. Life. You know. So that she would be out of pain. And then.

[01:39:15] Did the whole. Burning. And. Skull thing. But. 10%. Wonders. Like. There was that dream. That Spike had. When he fell asleep. In that house. Where they're hiding out. Where he saw his mother. And she had red eyes. Like the infected. And said. I'm drowning. And based on that. After that. I was waiting for her. To become. Some sort of. Super intelligent. Infected. I'm like. What if. Dr. Kelson. Actually. Is experimenting. On people. And.

[01:39:46] Turning. Them. Infected. And. As a way. Of like. Maybe that's the only way. That it will cure. Your cancer. Is if you become infected. And. Instead. He brought back. The skull. Of. The woman. I call Delilah. The infected woman. Hmm. Hmm. That's. That's actually. Not bad. Like a zombie. Dr. Morrow. Yeah. Exactly. Hmm. I have to sit. With this one. Okay. Yeah.

[01:40:16] I mean. Yeah. All right. Probably. It'll. Be disproven. But. 10. 10% of me wonders that. Okay. Other question. Riley. If the aisle. Has cancer. Is baby. Isla. The cure. Or a new tumor. Um. I want to say. I want to say. The cure. Only because. Only because of. Kind of.

[01:40:46] What it feels like. To the themes of the movie are. Hmm. And. I've. Oddly enough. I. I find. Both 28 days. And 28 years later. To be. You know. Despite the. Dark subject matter. To be. Kind of hopeful. To a certain extent. Or. To be. You know. To be. About. Things that are. You know. Finding hope in the darkness. Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel cynicism. Like. Like. As you said.

[01:41:16] 28 weeks later. You know. As much. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. A sense of heart. To this. So. I would be. Surprised. If. Would be. Surprised. If they viewed. Isla. As. The cancer. Or as a. As the. As a tumor. More so. Than a cure. So. Yeah. I don't know. If they view it that way. But I'm. I'm worried. About. Samson. Running his baby back. Yeah. I mean. There's concerns. Of course. Yeah. I'm worried. That the entire island. Is going to go down. In the next movie. And I don't know.

[01:41:46] Maybe that won't be painted. As like. The worst thing. Because maybe we'll see. That there. It's not. You know. The utopia. It might seem to be. On the surface. And maybe they find. New. Ways of life. Elsewhere. But I'm. I'm. Yeah. I'm very worried. About everyone. On the island. Right now. And I'm wondering. I'm not saying. There won't be. Without bumps. Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be. A narrative. And there's got to be. It's never. Even in real life. Something like. You know. Yeah.

[01:42:16] That things ever. Simple. Hmm. John. Do you think. That. Jamie. Isla. Baby Isla. To make up for it. Or is going to reject her. I think he's going to reject her. Yeah. Because you think the worst. I don't have. Yeah. I do. I do. I am. I'm unabashedly. Unashamed to say so. Maybe he surprises me. I hope he surprises me. Because I don't want the worst. I don't want to see the worst people.

[01:42:45] I don't want to think the worst of them. Forever. You know. Maybe there's some redeeming qualities there. He. I've acknowledged that he loves his son. Um. But. To have lost. Isla. And Spike. And now. This baby. Is here. That. Spike left. But Spike himself was like. I don't want any parts of you. Mm-hmm. He should not be anywhere around that baby. Hmm. I mean. Luckily. But I could be wrong.

[01:43:15] Luckily it's a very rocky landscape. So there's a lot to kick. Oh gosh. Oh my God. I'd have. I'd have Jamie kicking boulders. If I could. Uh. Riley. Do you have better hopes for. Jamie's take two. Is a dad. Um. You know. I think. It would be. If. Him. Kind of turning a new leaf. Would be kind of. An interesting development. Considering. Where he.

[01:43:46] Ended. Where he. Went to. Ended in. This first movie. So I think. It. Could be just. Interesting narratively. But. Part of me. I just don't trust him right now. Mm-hmm. Uh. To. Uh. Make. The correct decisions. Mm-hmm. Okay. You. Um. I don't know. I mean. Part of me wonders. If he will now.

[01:44:16] Go. After. Spike. Even though he's not supposed to. And like. Pawn the baby. Off on Sam. Um. Or Rosie. Um. Maybe. I feel like. I feel like he. Needs a redemption arc. In the next film. Otherwise. Either that. Or he's going to be killed horribly. But I'm hoping for a redemption arc. For him. So. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I guess. Maybe he'll save. Spike. From the Jimmies. Mm. Okay. Mm.

[01:44:45] I wouldn't mind. A redemption arc. Yeah. I just don't see one coming. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean. It was. It was impressive to see. How Spike grew. Through this film. You know. He. Uh. We saw him. Fumbling with the arrows. At the beginning. And then by a month. On his own. He's. Taking them down pretty steadily. By himself. He really has become. The giant slayer. That his. Dad said he was. And. I wonder if his dad's confidence.

[01:45:15] Did aid. That at all. But we'll find out in six months. In part two. The Bone Temple. It comes out January 16th. 2026. It's going to be directed by. Nia Costa. Uh. Because. Denny Boyle said he just couldn't do. Two to back to back. Which is fair. Um. So he selected Nia Costa. She did the Marvel. She did. The upcoming movie. Hedda. She did. The Candyman. Remake. Uh. So. I've definitely been. Excited to see.

[01:45:45] What she could do. Especially without. I think she's going to be able to have. More of her own vision here. Versus in the Marvel machine. Well. I love the Candyman remake. So. Yeah. I haven't seen it yet. I used to love. It's really good. It's really good. Okay. Yeah. I used to watch the original series. But I haven't seen the new one. I need to do that. Maybe the spooked over. Um. The music for the next one. I'm kind of bummed now. We're changing again. Even though I like this composer. Hildur. That's all tiered.

[01:46:15] Um. She did a rival. She did Joker. She did tar. Uh. But that seems. I mean. I think it's going to be epic music. But uh. I liked. The more unexpected music in this. So I'm very curious. How that's going to go. The big news is in the next one. Killian Murphy. Is going to appear. character. And. Then is supposed to be even more so. In the third film. And. Yeah. Part three. Not yet greenlit. But hopefully. I don't know.

[01:46:45] I like its chances. Yeah. Good vibes. John. I'm having good vibes. Only. Only because I want it to happen. And also because I think it's. This first movie is doing all right for itself. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. But everybody. Send. Send everyone. You know. To. To go see it. Because they need to get started on filming. Yet. Because now we have this like six months. It's spoiling us. I wondered. Was it filmed back to back.

[01:47:15] So that Alfie didn't age. And. Does that mean they're not worried about Alfie aging for the third one? And if so. Would that be because there's a time jump? Or because his character dies. I was thinking. Maybe time jump. Yeah. They can't kill off Spike. Right. No. I know. That would be awful. We riot if Spike dies. We riot.

[01:47:44] Alex Garland wrote all three. He's been a bit pessimistic lately. So we'll see. But he still has. Yeah. It's still with Danny. With Danny Boyle. So. Killian Murphy apparently would play a larger role in the third film. And Boyle would direct that one again. And. I wonder. Like. Will we get Selena and Hannah back? Meet Selena. Meet Hannah. Yeah. Imogen Poots from. From the second. The. So I feel. I don't need. I don't need that. I need Selena.

[01:48:14] And I need Hannah. Okay. I want to know. I read the whole comic series. And so I want to know if. They keep that or just completely ignore it. Which I would. I find. I would. Fair if they ignore it. Nobody promised anything. That the comics would be canon forever. Like. I need to know what happened with Jim. And Selena. Yeah. I need to know. I'll tell you what happened in the comics. But this doesn't mean anything for. What they decided to do in the film. In the comics. So Selena.

[01:48:44] She ends up. Doomsday style. Going back into Scotland. To. She's helping some. Journalists. Who want to capture what's going on there. And then of course. They realize it's worse than they thought. And most of their party dies. And she. And one journalist. Make it back out. They end up crossing. Over with the 28 weeks later. Events in London. And making it back out. As one of the last people. And she ends up. Getting together with the journalist. And so that's.

[01:49:14] That's where her. Her story is left. She's in the US. With the journalist. And there's just. An offhand reference. That Hannah was adopted. Into the German foster care system. And. Jim. Was taken off. To be shot. But we don't see him shot. Or anything like that. So. That's just an offhand reference. That someone made. And Selena seems to think he's dead. Wow. All of that could mean nothing. But that's what happened in the house. I like none of that. I don't want none of that in a movie.

[01:49:44] No. We. I would classify that as Elseworlds. I don't want. I don't want. Part of that universe at all. Extended universe. Yeah. Yes. I don't want. Part of that universe. No. No. No. No. That's Earth. Six. One. Seven. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Oh. Well. Any. Last thoughts in the films. Joe. No. Just. It was really enjoyable. It's something I'm going to watch again.

[01:50:14] And again. And again. Just like I did the first two. Yeah. Give. Give filmmakers. The runway to do what they need to do. That's. That's the. That's the lesson here. Let people do what they need to do. And let the chips fall where they're going to fall. Because most of the time. If you don't interrupt them studios. You get something pretty good. Most of the time. Yeah.

[01:50:44] And Riley. Do you have any final thoughts on the movie? Oh yeah. You know. I just. It's probably one of my favorite. Movie going experiences this year. Alongside. Sinners. Which. Excellent. And then Thunderbolts is my. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily like. Better than the three. The best of the three. But up. But my favorite movie going experience. So. Yeah. There's just been. There's been some good stuff. And. Yeah. If you. If you all haven't seen the movie. You should.

[01:51:14] Change that now. Yeah. Those are my top three too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well. Thank you Riley. Can you remind listeners again. Where they can find you? Absolutely. So. You can find me at. Biological Riley on YouTube. And as well. As on. Blue Sky. Where I post. Whatever I want. Basically. So. You can find links to both of those. In the show notes. And you'll also find in the show notes. You can.

[01:51:44] If you want to send feedback. About any of these films. Or anything else we're doing. You can send that to. Lorehounds. At the lorehounds.com. And there's also a link tree. Where you'll find a link. To our discord. Where. Yeah. We have a very lively discord. All three of us are participating there. There's. Chats for. We have a chat for these. 28. Blank later. Films. And we have chats for basically everything else. And. You can also check out. Our prior episode. On Supercast.

[01:52:14] And Patreon. In those. Feeds. You get ad free access to. All of the episodes. Plus bonus content. Like that prior episode. Like our. Sony shit universe. Funeral. I will never live that down. I love it. I love it. And. And of course. The extra episodes for Andor. And Wheel of Time. And. The other big shows we cover. As well as. Monthly extras.

[01:52:44] Like the second breakfast. And Elevensies. We just did an Elevensies. For the Wes Anderson Film Festival. We're going to do second breakfast. Tacos theme. And. This month's. Elevensies. Is Val Kilmer Film Festival. So. Voting. Should be out. Around the time of this episode. I think. For those who are subscribers. In the public feed. Don't worry. There will still be plenty. Coming there too. We have a couple weeks left. On Murderbot. Jean and I. Are. Halfway through. Ironheart.

[01:53:14] So one more week. Of that. And we're enjoying it. Yes. Right. I need to start. Definitely enjoying it. Definitely enjoying it. I. Yeah. You'll like it Riley. It's fun. It's fun. It's in Chicago. I'm. I'm. I'm already on board. Not enough Chicago. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. And Chicago really is like a central character in this show. Yeah. And we have Superman and Fantastic Four coming soon. Woohoo.

[01:53:43] For the comic geeks. Yeah. And do also check out our affiliates. Nevermind the music. Radioactive ramblings. Rings and rituals. Properly Howard. We'll shift dust. And the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast. And so I am fun fact listeners at home. I'm this time inserting the music after the fact. So there's going to be a mystery music starting to play right now. Don't know what folder it's from. Don't know what it's called. You can make up your own name.

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[01:55:59] Kal-El. Andra B. Andra B. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Seven. Six. Eleven. Five. Nine and twenty miles today. Four. Eleven. Seventeen. Thirty-two the day before. Boots. Boots. Boots. Boots. Moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war.

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