Andor - S02E11 - Who Else Knows?

[00:00:01] Attention all units, we've got our sights on a new episode of Andor. We're gonna need some recon on this. Echo Squadron reporting in. Missions all yours, Squadron Leader. To anyone else on this comlink, send all transmissions to andor at thelorehounds.com and get Holocron bonus episodes for 10 credits with our season pass on the show notes. Rebels, may the force be with you.

[00:00:42] Okay Ian, important opening question. If we were Kleia's rescue squad, which character would you be? Oh, I am 100% the cat in robot form. Just, I only picked up on it this time, but he has so much disgruntled cat energy. Like, I know you're technically my owner, but you're such an inconvenience to my existence.

[00:01:08] I mean, for me, K2SO is definitely one of the MVPs of the episode. Yeah. Just that, that dry humor, the dry wit. He is, obviously we've had that with C-3PO, but he is a different brand even to C-3PO and Alan Tudyk's voice acting is, is always a gift. He's so much fun. Yeah. I know. I wish we had had more of him, but okay. So welcome to the Lorehounds coverage of season two of Andor.

[00:01:39] If you don't know by now, just to review, we have a squadron set up going on so that we can cover each episode separately, despite them all being dropped at the same time each week. And so episode 10 was covered by Django squadron. This week, John and Aaron from Radioactive Ramblings. Today we're talking about episode 11 called Who Else Knows? And this is Echo Squadron piloted by me, Alicia, and my co-pilot for this week is the same as the first two weeks. Welcome back, Ian from Captain's Pod.

[00:02:07] Hello, that's me. I have an important question for you, which is, we didn't get to connect on the last batch of episodes. Are you okay? Because... About my baby Cyril? You took a hit. I thought when it happened, I thought of you. I said a little internal Star Wars prayer. I just wanted to check in and see how you're doing. Okay. Well, you know what? I did get some vindication because people, some people have been judging me for being a Cyril supporter.

[00:02:36] And I love how I just kind of like, you know, kind of just glance over the, his strangling of Deirdre. Well, this does go back to something. We're not going to get into it this episode because it's not really pertinent to this episode. We will get into it a bit more in a round table at the end between John, David and I, but the whole strangling thing, you know, just as in terms of what we discussed previously about the way women are being written. Now this episode had some fantastic writing of a particular female character.

[00:03:06] Yes. We won't be getting into there, but that aside, apparently Tony Gilroy said in an interview that Cyril is one of his favorite characters. So I feel vindicated. He's one of the most interesting. Like, good or bad, he is one of the most interesting, his character. I really believe, especially watching that last batch of, sorry, that, the batch that was eight, nine, was it seven, eight and nine? I can't do that. Right, batch three.

[00:03:36] That batch. That's a much better way of putting it. That batch. I really had no idea where his character was going to go. And I was questioning everything that I'd said previously about Cyril. So anybody that is slightly judgy, just remember there are people out there that think Thanos was right. So it takes some sorts. I have uttered the words in defense of Thanos on the podcast. It happens. That's the beauty of the pop culture content. Yeah.

[00:04:06] Well, I mean, if it's a good villain, they're well written. And Cyril was one where you really felt up to the very last moment, like, oh my God, this character could go either way. Yeah. And I think someone pointed out, you know, I said that one of my favorite things is the moment I was hooked was when he was introduced and he had modified his uniform and stuff. And someone pointed out it was because he was not really, he did not want to adhere to empirical standards. You know, he wanted to insert his own ideas and personality.

[00:04:35] And maybe that was somewhere where he and Deidre differed a bit, where she was just like, I will wear, even if I take off my uniform, I'm going to put on something that looks just like a uniform. Yeah. And he's like, oh, the gore. Let me see your fashion catalog. Yeah. And nothing reaches his standards. Like even the Empire, it's not a, their standards aren't as high as Cyril's. Hmm. Hmm. Okay.

[00:04:59] So for this batch of episodes to wrap it up, uh, episode 12, we're going to get it brought home by Delta Squadron with David and Aisha from the podcast, every sci-fi film ever this week. And lots of, uh, little extras, of course, coming for subscribers and season pass holders. There's going to be one more rebel squadron radio timeline briefing. There's going to be a Holocron lore cast. I think we're going to talk about Bail Organa. Yay! About his whole story. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, David's also has, has some more plans.

[00:05:28] I think, uh, after this, he's going to have another, uh, discussion with Matt Kavanaugh who wrote the book literally on Star Wars warfare and, uh, keep an eye out there for other things. Yeah. Um, spoiler policy is basically spoilers for everything in Star Wars except episode 12. We will not be talking about episode 12. Did you watch it yet? Oh, and I have, this is the first time I've seen an episode ahead. No, I've seen it too. And I'm going to, I'm going to be so careful.

[00:05:54] I mean, spoilers will be obvious, but no, we will not mention anything. I think this one, yeah, it just, it stops in the middle of an action scene. Yeah, it really does. Yeah. Yeah. This kind of could have been two episodes, this batch of three. Yeah. Um, but there will be fair warning.

[00:06:18] Rogue One spoilers because, uh, I'm going to, I want to remind people, they set some things up in this episode that are going to play out in the Rogue One film. So I want to be able to call that out and remind people. Um, but yeah, as Ian, as you said, we did not get to talk about last week. So what did you think about last week's batch overall? Yeah, I think they are potentially my favorite batch. Yeah. I really, really liked it. Um, I think it was really strong.

[00:06:47] Just the, the dominoes that were set up in the first six were just flicked and just in a really, really fun way and seeing a lot of payoff. Um, I really, more than anything, I understand the, the Cassian that we see in Rogue One. I see him now at the end of that batch. Like, I feel really confident about how he is where he is and how he got there.

[00:07:15] And yeah, just the, everything with the, the revolution on gore was just incredibly anxiety inducing. Tense. The Mon Mothma escape was incredible. It was just, it was tension, story and action just done extremely well for me. Loved it. And 10 and 11? 10 and 11 were definitely in a wind down. It's been, these three were an odd batch for me.

[00:07:45] I maybe enjoyed them the least. And maybe it's because they had the least to do in terms of like bridging. Original, yeah. Yeah. In terms of like, we kind of, we know certain things have to happen at this point that haven't happened already. So there's, he mentioned that this is like a bridging episode and a big old action sequence. And it was that, it kind of felt, well, we need some action to top it off. But you've, to be fair, they've had the best action.

[00:08:13] But the stuff on gore is this series like big climax for me. And then the end of this story truly is Rogue One. So this batch of three isn't really a finale. It is, it is like a, a coda between, uh, and all the TV show and Rogue One the movie. And I think it suffers story-wise, entertainment-wise from, from that was how I felt about specifically 10 and 11. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:42] I mean, 12 does wrap up some things for some characters, but, um, overall this one 11, it's 42 minutes long. I think that makes it the shortest of the season. If I remember correctly. Sounds right. Um, very much as you say, cuts off in the middle of action. So it's, it's kind of, it's, it's a bridge within a bridge. Yes, exactly. Yep. But on the plus side, we finally got full K2SO in action. Yes, we did. That's, it has to be the highlight.

[00:09:11] This is absolutely his episode. Yeah. Well, I have written here, if your name doesn't start with a K, this was not your episode because the other, the other MVP of this episode was definitely Clea. Yeah. Um, yeah. And like I said, uh, Claire, I think, I think she's not only the best written female character in the show up there with Mon, but also one of the best written characters overall, especially with the reveals of these, uh, 10 and 11.

[00:09:37] Yeah, that's something I really, really appreciated about 10. Um, I, it's quite bold to take one of your final three episodes and essentially dedicate it to Claire and her origin story with Luthun. And it's really more her origin story than Luthun's. Like we, we get that Luthun is disillusioned because of the war that he was fighting, but we don't get a lot of specifics with her. It gets pretty specific. And I love that bravery.

[00:10:08] And that's the bit of the story that I appreciate it most from these final three episodes was, was getting her background, which you could have forgiven them for not diving into and spending more time on Cassian and Bix or Yavin or something like that. But I think, yeah, it was, there's, there were the memes going around where they were saying the rebellion at a hundred percent and it shows Luthun, Mon and Clea. And it's like the rebellion at 99% and it's just Clea. Yes, exactly. It's so true. She's great.

[00:10:37] She seems to be the only one that is truly following the rules that Luthun has set out and like sticking to them and living and dying by them quite literally with, with Luthun. Like there was no question in my mind what her next step was. Like when she knows that he's been taken away in the ambulance, I know we're dipping into 10 more than 11, but I was like, oh, okay. So the next step is that she makes sure he's dead. Right. Right.

[00:11:02] And I was like, how much I engage with this episode will depend on what her mission is. And yeah, she, she follows it. She does what needs to be done. She's great. Yeah. Now there's been a lot of talk online about people wanting to believe that Clea is Cassian's sister. Um, I personally think that episode 10 confirmed that she's not because the planet where Luthun found her, they were talking about basements and streets and stuff. That doesn't sound like Canary and it's a different actress, but do you have thoughts on that? Yeah.

[00:11:32] With this kind of stuff, we, we love interconnectivity as, as a people for the most part. It's why the early days of the MCU were so shocking and incredible. For me, it's always like, what does it add to the story? Like, what do I, if it's suddenly revealed that they are related, how does that change influence affect the story to me? Um, and it doesn't really.

[00:11:59] So I don't find if it, if it's true, great, but I don't, I don't see that it's necessary. Yeah. But we love fan theories like this. We love connecting people together. Yeah. And I mean, this, that's something that I enjoy and I wouldn't have, I would have loved to have gotten some answers to these things, but I have the feeling that Tony Gilroy is more interested in the questions than the answers. Yeah.

[00:12:23] So yeah, I had a feeling, um, I hoped at one point that we might get some resolution about like what happened with Cassie and sister, but I had a feeling, yeah, we're just supposed to take Marv out her word. Like everyone there died. That's it. Yeah, that's it. And it's just one of those things that motivated Cassian and that's it. But it did feel that it's one of the most jarring things between season two and season one is that there's some stuff at the very, very beginning of season one that I almost

[00:12:50] feel like they wouldn't have spent as much time on if they knew it was just going to be season one and two and that's it. Because from that point, they thought they had a full four or five seasons to fill with stuff. So I imagine there probably was a time where Cassian sister plays into it. And that was just an easy thing to snip when it's like, no, we got to focus on getting to Rogue One now. Yeah, no, that's true. And, you know, as I keep saying, I hope that we get lots of stories filled in, in the gaps

[00:13:19] because there are so many delicious details to pick at. They were just kind of left hanging. Like what's with Luthan and the Kyber crystal and the Jedi hilt on his walking stick, you know? Yes. That story. Yes. Oh, so much juiciness. So just to backtrack to episode 10 for another minute to talk about a couple more Easter eggs. One, John and Aaron were asking on the podcast if I would explain more about what the, because

[00:13:44] I, I left the message that the Deveronian victory necklace was the Deveronians are like the devilish looking characters with the two big horns in their heads. Okay. And, and they didn't remember the victory necklace, but that was one of the first things that Luthan and Clea sold. So just to answer that question. Yeah. Um, another fun thing was that when they were sitting at that breakfast, when they blew up the bridge at the really fancy place. Uh huh. Yeah.

[00:14:12] Uh, that was indeed Naboo as I saw some people theorizing on the, yeah, they, they confirmed it. It was filmed at, do you know Heaver castle in Kent in the UK? That'll be one of the few castles I haven't visited. Okay. Um, so apparently in 1997, they were going to, they actually, I guess I filmed a scene there that was going to be in the Phantom Menace where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were, and Jar Jar

[00:14:40] were going to enter the Royal Palace grounds after they escaped some dangerous waterfall. And, um, that scene was cut, but then Andor decided to go back to that same castle. That's great for this scene. Oh, I love that. That is officially Naboo. That's so fun. And the other thing was the, um, the knife that Luthen stabbed himself with.

[00:15:05] He called it a Nautolan bleeder and Nautolans are the, like the amphibious humanoids who have kind of all those, uh, tendrils from their heads that look kind of like dreadlocks. Okay. Like Kit Fisto is a Jedi. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. And just want to point out that I've talked about them extensively as a species in two episodes of the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast, the, uh, Young Jedi Adventure season one episode,

[00:15:31] and also the episode I did with Marilyn about myths of the old Republic, which is, they're involved in one of those. Oh, that's so cool. That reminds me of, you said you had a side character that you needed to know everything about when we last talked to the... Right. The glupshadow. Was it the blue guy? Yeah. Yeah. Bo. I have my one. Can you guess who it was? It was from episode 10. From episode 10. Mm-hmm. Oh, the grandmother? Yes! Yes!

[00:16:00] I need to know everything about her. And just, her looks like she's initially resistant, but it just goes along with it and just like, and I'd love to think that their entire language is just that old person mumbling. So I need to know her story and if she's okay. There was a group of three of them in season one when Cassian was on that, you know, like space grease, as they call it, Niamos. Yes. There was three of them sitting along the water there at one point. Oh, I love it.

[00:16:29] Old Biddy's just having a chat. Yeah. They look like hippie versions. I love in episode 10, the moment where she's like sitting on the examining table, just kicking her legs contendently. Yes! Like, mm-hmm-hmm. So adorable. Oh, I need her to be my grandmother. Okay, before we get into episode 11, I do have to do one last callback to the episode 10 podcast. I told John when we recorded Murderbot this morning that I was going to do this in defense of the sequel trilogy.

[00:16:59] Mm-hmm. Here we go. Okay. So I agree with people that, you know, when I was in the theater and Palpatine came back, I was like, oh, come on. Sorry. Yeah. Especially knowing like it had been spoiled also in the Fortnite thing. And like, I just, yeah, I was not into that particular twist. Mm-hmm. But I do overall like most other things about those movies. I am, I'm a Reylo. Okay.

[00:17:28] I'm not obnoxious about it, but I shipped them and I was happy that it went the way it did. But, um, but I just wanted to point out one thing that people bring up is like, are, is why is it that they, uh, the empire falls and then some version of it rises again so quickly. And that's something that I've been for anyone who's had access to and has been listening to the rebel squadron radio episodes. It's something I've been trying to emphasize there is that it is normal in real history.

[00:17:56] And, you know, George Lucas says Star Wars is like poetry. It rhymes, but so is real history where it is not unusual to see, uh, somebody fall. And then there's a backlash to what rises out of that. In this case, the new Republic, which again is like, why is a new Republic just like the previous Republic and repeats a lot of the same problems because we have trouble learning from our mistakes. Yeah. We're the same people. We are not ancient. We don't live for thousands of years and we repeat history again and again.

[00:18:26] It's something we're doing literally this century. Yeah. Yeah. I have no defense though, for the second death star in return of the Jedi. I just say, look, Ewoks. Fair. Completely fair. Yeah. All right. Let's get into episode 11. Who else knows? Uh, right after a very quick break.

[00:19:09] Okay. And our season two, episode 11, who else knows? Directed by this whole block, Alonzo Ruiz Palacios, who he's Mexican by the way. So I, I'm guessing I heard Tony Gilroy saying that he got a lot of names through Diego Luna. So I'm guessing this was one of them. That's really cool. I saw, I don't think most people have seen it. You probably haven't, but he did a film last year called La Cocina. No, I haven't. It's, it's a film of a play.

[00:19:37] It's all in black and white set in a kitchen. Um, it just about like working in, in food service and, and humanity of it all and immigration and things like that. I really liked it. So it was, it's nice to see him, uh, branching out into big brand name TV like this too. That's cool. That reminds me of, I read a thing about the actor that plays, uh, Claire. Oh, her name has escaped me. Cause I'm, uh, Elizabeth. Um, I'm forgetting her last name. Elizabeth something. Start to the D.

[00:20:08] Uh, Dulau. Um, I believe this is her first like big acting gig, like straight out of RADA. She's just gone straight to this and she's just incredible. I just, I, one of the things I love about Star Wars is that it does genuinely tend to pull out unknown actors for its main characters and then surrounds them with, with giants like Ben Mendelsohn and, um, Mr. Skarsgård. Yeah.

[00:20:35] It's a, it's a really, it's a cool way to discover talent. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, yeah, especially with the directors, a lot of them seem fresher too. So I like to see that on both sides because that's how you cultivate a pipeline of talent. Yes, absolutely. Um, the writer for this whole block was Tom Bissell and he was not involved in last season, as far as I can tell. He, his background is in journalism and video games. Most of all.

[00:21:02] I think he, this was a good, you know, with the action, I suppose that was a great one for him to do too. Yeah. There were definitely some video game levels elements to the, to, especially to 11. Yeah. Right. Right. And then as far as timeline, we are now in one BBY. We are mere days before the film Rogue One, weeks before the original movie. And by their dating system, year 34 of the great resynchronization and the title, who else knows refers to Dedra getting interrogated. Dedra in the hot seat.

[00:21:30] Um, we'll go through the plot arc by arc. So somewhat out of order from the episode beginning with Dedra herself, Dedra's dead end. This episode opens with ISB supervisor here to investigating the mess Clea left behind in the hospital on her quest to save Luthen from torture last episode. That's a very generous save. That's the scariest way to put that. See, she saved her mother torture. Amazing.

[00:22:01] Here it's former supervisor Dedra Miro finally found the axis figure she's been chasing for years, but the sting operation was a botched job. And now her boss Orson Krennic, who once admired her skirting of the rules to get things done, is laying the blame fully at her feet, believing, or at least pretending to believe that she leaked information about the Death Star to the rebellion. So do you think he said that she missed her chance and she basically, she would have been a

[00:22:30] brilliant rebel operative. Do you agree? It's delicious. It's the, the look on her face to be interrogated as a potential rebellion spy is just beautiful because she is the last person that you would expect to be in that seat. And yet everything like they haven't manufactured much. Krennic makes some great points. Yes. You look suspicious as duck. You are absolutely in the hot seat here.

[00:23:00] Um, I, and I think she would, I think she is dogged and determined. And if she had been raised in, on a different planet and had been raised, um, on, uh, Gorm or on like one of the, the other worlds that we've seen and was part of the rebellion, that's, that's who she would be fighting for and who she would be using her talents for. I don't think she's inherently with the empire.

[00:23:27] I think she is, um, I think she's, her nature will always be her nature, but who she uses that for is a result of nurture. Mm-hmm. Can you imagine if she and Cleia had ever teamed up? That was my very next thought. Like Cleia could be working for the empire as well. You could switch their seats very, very easily. And if they teamed up, it would either be, the rebellion would be done in a day for better or worse.

[00:23:54] Like it would be like committed and then self implode or success immediately. The empire, the emperor would be deposed either way. Yes, exactly. Um, I love that the attendance on the ISB side thinks that they're looking for three people instead of, and then later here, it's like, no, it's just that one woman. Yeah. It's like somebody over-exaggerating. They've gone into a fight and they've lost. It's like, oh, you should have seen there was 10 of them.

[00:24:22] They all came at me and I fought off nine of them, but one slugged me at the end just to cover up. Like there's no way one person managed to bypass all of my security. It must've been multiple people. Yeah. Um, fun Easter egg. I noticed in the official sites, uh, write up that the hospital is called the Lena So Hospital and any readers of the High Republic books will recognize that name. She was like the most important chancellor of a big period of the High Republic.

[00:24:52] So that's a cool callback. That's great. Who do you think is slipping that in? Because I've heard you mention that- Tony Gilroy. Well, exactly. Tony Gilroy isn't one for huge law dumps. So who do you think is slipping that in? Um, I don't, in this case, I'm not sure who the exact person is, but they will often have, I mean, probably Pablo Hidalgo. He's the general kind of lower guide person for Star Wars. That's fine. So it's a good chance that it's him. Yeah. I want that job, but for Star Trek.

[00:25:22] Well, like just give me some like blank templates and I will like add, um, what's the, what's the game, uh, Mad Lib, right. All of the different history into those places. I like the little details of the hospital. Like we don't spend much time there, but we see that the hospital staff is like, you cannot just take over an entire floor of intensive care. And they're like, well, except we're going to.

[00:25:46] So it just goes to show that the empire has zero interest in the wellbeing of the patients. Well, and there was a, I love it when a point is succinctly made, and this is something that is mentioned in episode 10, but he says, I'm sure you'll do a better job of moving your patients than I will. Right. Exactly. And that's just, it's so insidious and it's just point made. You win. I mean, and I love all the little human moments too.

[00:26:13] Like when, uh, here it's going to the tech in, in the security, you know, surveillance room and the tech starts, first of all, he's being rather cheeky. And then he starts angling for a family promotion. You know, my cousin, my cousin applied to the ISB. And again, his response to that is great. It's like, well, then, you know, like, I only need to ask once or how important it's going to be for you to get this right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I love that.

[00:26:40] Um, I think the real meat of this section though, was Krennic interrogating Dedra. It was really powerful the way they had him enter the room and you have that shot that's cutting off Krennic at the nose. Yeah. So we just see his mouth hovering over Dedra sitting there looking like, what the fuck is happening? Why is my career in life blowing up right now? Yeah. I thought like I've screwed up, but I didn't think I screwed up this bad.

[00:27:08] And like, she's not prepared for what he's about to accuse her of. And this is like, this is my favorite that I've seen Ben Mendelsohn. He is eating this up. There is something about actors being Star Wars villains and truly like understanding what that means they're allowed to do because all of them are larger than life. You can make the story as real and like grassroots as you want, but the Empire always has permission

[00:27:36] to be a bit Vader and to be a bit Darth Maul and to be like just over the top, just juicy and mustache twirly. And he's just eating this up. Every single line of dialogue is laced with evil. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that whole, that dehumanizing finger on her head. Oh, I can feel it. I can feel it right now on my head. Well, it's like between cutting him off and having that finger there, you know, it's, it

[00:28:04] literally is pointing our empathy toward Dedra in this scene, despite all of her, we know full well by now, everything that's wrong with her. But, um, in this moment it's like, oof. And apparently according to Maureen D, uh, on the discord, she said just before we recorded that she heard an interview where Denise Gao said, uh, it was not in the script and she didn't expect it. So her look of surprise is real. Yeah. I bet it was what a bold, what a bold, bold move to make without consent.

[00:28:33] I guess you've really got to trust the people you're acting with, but when you do something physical like that, I don't, I don't know if I'd ever be method enough to put my hands on someone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it obviously could have been worse, but yeah, that, that was a very, it was a very chronic thing to do. Very, very much. Yeah. Completely agree. But it definitely is going to throw Denise Gao as much as Dedra Meir off, you know? Yeah.

[00:29:02] Ooh, it's the Kubrick way of getting a performance out of somebody. Hmm. Hmm. And then we get the title of the episode, who else knows? And he's asking of course about the death star, uh, although it takes Dedra a moment. And she says she believes that supervisor Legret's brother knows because he's stationed on Scarif. So again, Scarif is the planet that goes boom at the end of Rogue One. I warned you, Rogue One spoilers.

[00:29:28] Um, she tells Krennic to talk to Heert because of his friendship with Young, which, I mean, Krennic's getting mad at her for anything she says now. But in this scene, I feel like she's just proving over and over that she is right. Like she's never been, she's maybe done the wrong things, but she's never been incorrect. Yes. Yeah, exactly. She has been overzealous. She's overcommitted. She's maybe acted too soon.

[00:29:54] But everything from Axis is, she's been right on the money. She just didn't have probably the evidence in the right order or had the right backing. But I've got to say, it was a beautiful moment when she got to pull out that comm, the navigation system and plug it in front of Luth. And I like, I'm rooting for the wrong person, but I'm so happy for her. She finally got her guy. She gets to this moment. She finally got her guy. Yeah. It lasts for a moment and then everything blows up.

[00:30:22] But in that moment, she's like, well, how did she put it to that? She was afraid it wasn't sufficiently, I don't know, stunning or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is something stunning. The artifact has to be stunning. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great moment. Yeah. I mean, she's got to be pulling out her hair also in this moment where she's locked up. And her two former, the two men who used to report to her, Lonnie, has now been outed

[00:30:51] as a rebel spy and is dead. And now Heert is in charge and kind of making things worse for her in some ways. Yeah. Or at the very least, not helping. Yeah. Not throwing her any rope at all. Right. The moment that really struck me in this scene is when Krennic reveals the, or accuses her of giving out her credentials, her codes, whatever it was. And just the way her face drops.

[00:31:21] Yeah. She's like, that's why I'm in trouble. That's why I'm here. Like, that is where I really see her, like, being hurt and, like, disappointed in herself for that happening. Like, how could she have avoided that? Yeah. I mean, she's also disgusted by, she's like too young. You think that I would. I don't know. He wasn't, you guys got along for a while. You thought he was kissing your ass because he wanted intelligence, but yeah.

[00:31:50] Where she messed up though. And I mean, it's hard to say she messed up because she got what she wanted out of it. She admits that she got some Intel bundles that were sent to her by mistake and she didn't report it. So that looks suspect, obviously. In these Intel bundles. And the good thing about this is I guess there's so much information in there. They can't really pinpoint what the rebels would be looking for wanting to know, but there's the Gorman mining schedules. Of course, she would know that because she was there.

[00:32:19] I love how he called. Poor Cyril. First, he got the, who are you in the last arc? And now he calls her, his, her fringy friend. Fringy friend. Like poor Cyril. What does that mean? That was such a punch when Cassian is just like, who are you? And like that hurt more than the blaster. It really did. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, poor Cyril. Poor Cyril. What an ignominious death. Oh golly. Yeah.

[00:32:49] And so there's orbital progress assessments, Iyadu research journals, and Iyadu is the planet where we find Galen Erso after the, in Rogue One, when they find him doing the stuff for the empire. He's on Iyadu, that stormy planet. Jedha. Yeah. Two years worth of printouts on the Jedha working group. And Jedha is the planet where we meet Chirrut Imwe and, you know, the guardians of the whales

[00:33:16] because Jedha was long for millennia, a religious center of the galaxy. So this holy city in the high republic was when it was at its height. And it's absolutely where I would choose to live at that point. And it brought together all these different force religions and different types of thinking. And now it's about that holy city, not the planet, just the city goes boom in Rogue One also. Yeah. I love pulling all of those pieces together that you know make up the Death Star and the plan and all of that.

[00:33:45] It's so, it's such a, it's such a fun payoff. It's taking advantage of the fact that we know where this goes. Yeah. And we have so much more knowledge than the people trying to uncover all of it. And we've got the overall jigsaw puzzle picture and they've just got the pieces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And she wasn't even looking for any of this stuff. She knows about the Death Star, of course, but she was just looking for something to help her find access. And she found it in those documents that there was a valet who worked for the moth.

[00:34:15] The moth is like a governor of a sector. And so it was the moth of Jedha. And his valet claimed he was recruited by a man with a Fomdor hall craft filled with antiquities, which is Luthien's craft, obviously. And so she, she got what she wanted out of it, but it cost her more than it was worth, perhaps. I don't know. I wonder what, do you think she thinks finding it was worth it at this point now that she's sitting in lockup?

[00:34:41] Well, she didn't, she didn't have a clue that, um, I've forgotten his name. Luthien's contact managed to get hold of anything. Like that was the unfortunate piece of timing, wasn't it? Oh, Lonnie. Yeah. Yeah. Because if he hadn't given Luthien the heads up, her raid probably would have worked because

[00:35:04] he wouldn't have known to start dissolving everything and wouldn't have sent, um, uh, Claire away. So that's really the, that's really the, the clinching point there where it's really, it's a bit of bad luck that it was at that point that he invaded her privacy. Right. Right.

[00:35:31] And her final step out of line and from Krennic's perspective is that she blamed his people because they tortured the spy to death before more information could be obtained. Yes. So Krennic is just done with her. Yeah. There's biting the hand that feeds and then biting the hand that is about to torture you as well. Neither is smart. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Krennic's like, I don't care about you. The only woman I care about is this Luthien's quote unquote daughter, uh, before she can share any information.

[00:36:01] I, I liked the little mini meeting we got as, as insightful between, uh, Krennic here to and Partagas. Yes. Where they're like, you know, uh, here it's like, well, what charge? Could we bring this woman up on? And, and Partagas immediately says she's diseased. She has to be found before she spreads it and everybody dies. And it's like, well, yeah, that would, people would turn that person in probably if it's typhoid Mary. They sure would.

[00:36:28] Or, I don't know, part of me thought, wouldn't they just run away from her and just not report her at all? Maybe they'd run away and call. But it was, it's a beautiful metaphor as well for, uh, how the rebellion is spreading and how, um, Partagas is like, man, this is getting away from us and this is spreading everywhere and we can't stop it. Like she very much is the virus.

[00:36:53] And this information when it spreads is going to incite the rebellion even more. So it's a very fitting metaphor to use on her. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that we finally got in the hunting, hunting of Clea, we finally got a hologram because that's been sorely lacking on this show. They've been, everything's been normally in Star Wars when two people talk to each other, it's two, it's like hologram heads or whatever. Yeah. Very often. And here it's been very much like our world, just like screens.

[00:37:22] And I'm guessing that's a budgeting thing. Yeah, I think so. Maybe they're just tired of holograms glitching all the time. Just like until we can stop the glitching holograms, let's just stick with screens. Okay. That's good headcanon. Yeah. That's my headcanon. Yeah. Um, and there's good tension in this scene also between Krennic and Partagas. Partagas seems to be feeling very disaffected, very like, hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was kind of like the power dynamic was very interesting

[00:37:49] because Partagas was like, tell it to Palpatine or when Krennic is like trying to explain the delays. And there was a silence afterwards where I'm pretty sure Krennic outranks Partagas based on the gumdrops that are on his uniform, the blue and red insignia. Yes. Yeah. I mean, the way that they act toward each other, I think that is so. Yeah, but it definitely felt like Partagas was overreaching and kind of being a bit rude to Krennic.

[00:38:18] But Krennic kind of took it. I mean, Partagas seems annoyed that the Death Star isn't ready yet. And so it's, I do think Krennic is in charge, but Partagas is like, why are we still having to keep this secret? Yeah. You should have already destroyed a planet by now. It's amazing. Yeah. We've been able to keep it under wraps this long. You're building a moon with a laser. With a laser.

[00:38:44] He says, you're mere days away from testing the Death Star, which of course, yeah, they're first, they're going to take out the holy city of Jedha. Mm-hmm. And then we get that final confrontation between Dedra and Hearth's this episode where Hearth denies being friends with Lani. It's like, ouch, Lani's getting it from all ends. Lani and Cyril, their memory is being pooped upon. Poor guys. Please. And Dedra says, you know, there's a cell down here next to me for you.

[00:39:14] Do you think that Hearth will, doesn't have to be in this show, but do you think Hearth will eventually end up in the same position that Dedra's in? Yeah. I mean, absolutely. If he will do something and become a scapegoat or he will survive long enough to be on a war crimes investigation like that. It tends to be what will end up living on an island somewhere and then coming back. But they rarely have happy endings. Yeah.

[00:39:43] I think he would end up being a scapegoat of some sort, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what this show is trying to show us is how a fascist government is happy to chew up and spit out its underlings. Yeah. It's a personality thing. You're the flavor of the month. And Dedra is a great example of that cycle that they go through.

[00:40:04] Her arc may be not how we want her to go because we love her for some weird reason, but she does exemplify that trajectory. Yeah. She's just a woman trying to work in an imperial world. Exactly. I forgive her nothing, but... No, absolutely. Yeah. I think we need to stop having such likable actors in these roles. They do it on purpose. Yeah. But in this moment...

[00:40:33] So men keep accusing Dedra, including here last episode, keep accusing her of wanting glory. But I still think... I think she wants to be right. And I think that there's a subtle but important difference between, you know, she's not looking for glory. She's just looking for the satisfaction of like, yes, I knew that that was a thing. And that is... I found the axis, the literal hinge that connects it all. If she was searching for glory, she'd be better off because she wouldn't do the...

[00:41:02] She wouldn't necessarily do the rash moves that hurt her reputation. Like Krennic says like, no, maybe it's Partagaz. But anyway, yeah, I think it's Partagaz that when he agrees to send her to arrest her, she's like, she's overstepped once before or many times before. She's been told she knows like this is coming. Somebody searching for glory might be more tactical with those moves to maintain their reputation.

[00:41:28] They probably would have eaten up the opportunity to go to Gormund, be the face of that. She really didn't want to be the face of that at all. So yeah, I think she's very task driven. And I think she's justice driven as well. Her definition of justice as well. And yeah, I think that that's ultimately her undoing because she is chasing justice at the expense of her career. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And she does in this point.

[00:41:58] She's like, why should I help you to hear it? But then she's like, okay, I'll tell you what I know because I think she wants to be right. And she is right. She says, Clea will need to reach out. And she mentions that old frequency radio from Ferrix that used pulse codes. And that's the one we saw Vix using to contact Luthan in season one. The one, this is the reason why Will's father was tortured to death for possessing this radio. And she's right. Yeah. She's running the money.

[00:42:26] And that this is where the Empire becomes its own undoing as well. When the imperialists like Krennic fail to use a good resource for the sake of making an impression out of her and making an example out of her. Like we don't tolerate these kind of screw ups, even though she's great. You've got to recognize how great Deidre is at being an investigator. And she's been right. So keep using her. Yeah.

[00:42:55] We see you, Deidre, locked up in the basement. Yeah, we do. Meanwhile, we get some messages from Coruscant. Clea returns to the safe house Cassian and Bix once called home where Mon Mothma hid after her incendiary Senate speech a year prior. Now seemingly long abandoned. Clea breaks open a wall to pull out an old pulse radio just as described by Deidre. And she begins to tap out a message. Out in the outer rim, a unit under Will's bed begins to go off.

[00:43:25] He interrupts Cassian, Melshi, and K2SO in a raucous round of Rianza so that they can monitor the radio together. And when Clea broadcasts a second time, they are ready to receive. Cassian, who does not yet know Luthun is dead, believes they owe their old friend a rescue. Once again bucking General Draven's orders, he borrows a ship and takes off. Poor General Draven. He is. Really?

[00:43:53] I had this realization that he's the substitute teacher of the rebellion. No one's taking him seriously. They're just waiting for the real generals to arrive and just kind of ignoring him. And he's just so ineffectual. I couldn't help but feel a little bit sorry for him. Yeah, so Will stays behind and has to explain things to Draven. And Draven is just not being cool about it at all.

[00:44:20] But I started to wonder in that scene in my rewatch, do you think Draven is jealous of their loyalty to Luthun? We just haven't had enough time with him to get a read on that for me. I can see that being the case. Like if the generals tend to be, I mean, in Star Wars and Star Trek and a lot of media, they tend to be like, let's make action. Let's go. They're not often the thinkers. It's like, let's go and do things.

[00:44:48] So I can see him feeling frustrated that they get to have an active role and do these big heroic things. And he's very much has the admin job at the minute until they're ready to really turn this into an active war. So I think he's expending a lot of frustrations on the people that do get to leave the planet. And he has to be restrained and kind of keep the stiff upper lip. Yeah. I mean, and Will puts it in his face.

[00:45:16] He reminds Draven that everything they have on Yavin is because of Luthun. Yeah. And Will gets grounded for it. I mean, he gets put under house arrest. Yeah, it does seem like everybody's forgotten that. Even like the little, the council that we see on Yavin, they're all very dismissive of Luthun's contribution. Probably because of how down the rabbit hole he's gone since. Yeah.

[00:45:39] I mean, I guess Draven just sees like all these former Luthun operatives, except for Vel seems like she's been in line or whatever since. But all the other ones are just kind of running off and doing whatever they feel like. I guess the only thing worse would be having people from Saw's team. Oh my god. Yeah. Every day he's thinking, at least I'm not with Saw. At least I'm not with Saw. Can you just imagine anyone from Saw's team joining up? Oh my god. Not even. Just huffing that mineral, whatever it was, that mineral gas.

[00:46:09] Which is causing trouble shooting people, like allies. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly. That was one of the unresolved things, at least from this episode. Mm-hmm. And from this batch was the Will connection. And that big scene that he had with Saw, that never went where I thought it was going to go. I thought he might be more with Saw and that might be like the path that Will took. Will kind of, his story kind of flickers out for me a little bit in this last batch. Yeah.

[00:46:39] Yeah. No, I agree. We see some evidence of what's come before. Well, he's still loyal to Luthan in some way, obviously, because he keeps his transmitter charged just in case. Mm-hmm. We see he and Drina still seem to be going strong. She gets a line, lucky her. He still has a limp from Gorman. Yes. Make sure to show us that. Yeah. So he's still carrying his scars. Yeah, and I think that he does point out something important.

[00:47:08] Both he and Clea both point out this episode that Luthan, basically, he did the dirty work so that men like Draven and Bail Organa could feel like they're above that kind of thing. Yeah, he pressed the buttons that blew up the bridges. He did the things that they don't have to know about. He dirtied his hands so that they could be like, the rebellion is the moral authority. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:47:32] And it's funny to see that because we have this interesting progression of Andor to Rogue One to A New Hope, which flow directly into each other but were released in opposite order. Yes. And it goes from the perspective of that dirty underbelly to the perspective of, at the end of the day, we are the high and mighty, the last surviving Jedi. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then we get more Empire again and again and again.

[00:48:02] But we also get more Rue Scott Melshi. So Melshi, just in case anyone doesn't remember, he was in the prison arc with Cassian in season one. He's in Rogue One, which is why it was important he's back. And apparently his scenes in this part were added in later. Like, this is one where Gale Rogue is kind of pressured to. It's like, you need, come on, the characters in the movie. Come on, just do it. He's literally doing nothing. Just, he's at the door. Like, just let him in. No, that kind of stuff I love.

[00:48:32] Like, tying that in is really satisfying. That's really cool. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it seems like you and I always get to talk about the fun Star Wars games. Do we? Well, we had a- Oh, sorry. We did, yeah, the poker game. Yes. And the rock, paper, scissors game. We had the rock, paper, scissors in the first arc. And this time we have Rianza. So from the official StarWars.com databank, Rianza is a popular game played by rebel soldiers

[00:48:57] during downtime on Yavin 4, a fast-paced mix of plated tiles, bedding, and bluffing, where players aim to win by declaring Decio triumphantly. It was created by the Andor art slash graphics department with tiles designed by graphic designer Al McKee, who also crafted a full set of rules to play inspired by both ancient Mahjong sets and dominoes. Love it. And this is like, Star Trek does this a lot.

[00:49:24] Star Trek is famous, like the Next Generation in particular is famous for its like, all of the main cast sitting around a poker table. And when a franchise can explore humanity and different versions of like, the alien version of humanity, whatever race they are, or be they droid, droid manatee. When you can explore that through gaming, that's genius. It's not just a throwaway scene where you get to have some fun.

[00:49:50] I love that K2SO is tortured by statistics. And just like, I have a great statistical sample here, and I'm really confident. However, you're not folding, which means there's something I'm missing here. And like, he just cannot math his way to an outcome that makes sense. And Cassian and his name is him. Yes. I just reveling in that. And I just enjoying that.

[00:50:19] Aren't humans frustrating? Aren't we the worst? Yeah, exactly. And this is why I know that Gilroy fought against having K2SO in too early. I'm wondering if it was partly about budget, because he must be expensive to animate. Oh, he's beautiful. I kept thinking that all the way through this episode, through the fight. It is just no difference in quality from the movie. Like, it is so, so, so, so good. Yeah.

[00:50:48] But I do wish we had had more time with him here. We see like, the whole personality at play where he keeps warning about, he's like, you know, the base has a restriction against unsanctioned radio transmissions. Draven's telling us not to go. And then at the end, you know, we have them in the ship. And he's like, we violated 17 rules. And Cassian's like, oh, make it shut up. And he turns off the radio. He's like, 18 rules. Okay, let's go. And then he's just like this other callback, which is like, it's so nice to follow rules

[00:51:18] for once. Like his sarcasm meter is, is just incredible. And I love the idea of that. Somebody programmed that deliberately. Like, somebody wanted these droids to be really sarcastic. And I love that. Well, so what I miss about, you know, I talked in previous episodes about how they retconned a comic with this version of how they found him. And in the comic, you see more where he's not completely unprogrammed.

[00:51:46] And this is one reason why he keeps spitting out percentages and things like that. Right. But then you start to see as he's going along with Cassian, you start to see him developing more of his own personality. And eventually, you know, just deciding with Cassian. Um, and, and sort of a journey to finding who, what his own personality is. I love that. That's, I mean, that's one of the, the joys of having an artificial life form storyline there.

[00:52:14] And admittedly, that's not what this series is about, but it's, it's so fun when you can do that. Yeah. Yeah. But he doesn't get to have Revnog. What do you think? So Revnog, according to, it's a new invention for Andor. It's obviously alcoholic and apparently comes in a bunch of different flavors. What do you imagine it's like in our real world? Like schnapps or? Yeah. Revnog.

[00:52:38] I, I feel like it's more, um, patini, like the Irish drink, but I think it's made out of potatoes. Like, I think like a potato vodka thing is what I'm thinking of based on, I think Cassian shares some, is that in this episode or the next one? I think it's, I think it's the next one. Anyway, he shares some and he, um, it's definitely like transparent.

[00:53:06] It seems like it's in a big hooch jar. Like I feel like it's something. Could be Palenka or, or moonshine? Yeah. I feel like, yeah, it's moonshine-esque. It's something that they're making in the backyard. So I'm guessing a potato vodka mash is what I'm expecting it tastes like. What if they make it from those melons on Yavin? Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. No, that's gotta be what it is. Cause they're halfway to fermented anyway. It's perfect. That's true. That's true. Okay. Let's take one more quick break here.

[00:53:34] When we get back, we're going to talk about the axis extraction. Back on Coruscant, Hirte is overseeing a sweep of Luthen and Clea's gallery.

[00:54:04] It turns out Luthen was not able to fully destroy the radio and the ISB is able to get it online just in time to catch Cassian's communications with Clea as he enters the atmosphere above Coruscant, revealing the safe house's location. Coordinating with Partigaz, they send two teams to the safe house to capture Clea alive for questioning. Cassian and Melshi make it to the apartment first, unaware the ISB is coming.

[00:54:30] They leave K2 behind to guard the ship, but when K2 notices the comms have been scrambled, he begins to suspect his friends have company. While Cassian with Melshi talks to Clea inside, K2 is busy saving the day, taking out the two ISB raiding parties one human shield at a time. That was possibly the most graphic thing I've seen in Star Wars since Darth Maul was chopped in half.

[00:54:58] Like that human shield moment was a lot. It was great though. It was great. It's incredible. It really makes sense. It really does. Don't take the bullets needlessly. Right, right. My other favorite moment was, are you with us? No. And he just bats the card off the bridge. No. So great. Love that. A nonchalant backhanding. Yeah.

[00:55:25] And in a nod to the comic book origin, K2 fondly remembers being in a parade once with 200 KX units attended by the Emperor himself. And it's like the moral incongruence with K2 and the fact that he's with the rebels and he is loyal to them. Very, you know, he'll take out the Empire left and right. But he still is like, I remember being an Imperial bot and how grand it was. Yeah. I remember when my programming was something different.

[00:55:52] And it's that impartialness that I always trust and find comfort with in artificial life forms in all franchises. Like, that adherence to programming is very comforting to me. I don't have to try and read emotions. Yeah. Yeah. And also we get Melshi's, he gets his first big trip to the city. At least he gets to see it once before he dies in the next movie. Yeah. Spoilers.

[00:56:22] Spoilers. I warned. Yeah. I love also the moment where the radio tech is impressed by Luthen and Kleia's ingenuity with the radio. And then her supervisor is like shaking his head. Like, don't say that. Don't say that. I will say the one jarring moment. And I guess you have to have it in this things is I can't trace something when I haven't got a signal to beep, beep, beep, beep. And then the signal. I'm like, okay, okay, fine. Very convenient.

[00:56:52] You can do that, but you lined that up with the end of a sentence. Like, that is a lot of incredibly good timing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also, how much time does it take for him to get from the outer rim to, you know, the center, to Coruscant, in order between those messages? Like, Kleia's must have been there for days. I mean, I got the impression it was just the one day and the one night because of, like, the investigation and how it was progressing.

[00:57:22] But, yeah, we don't, we intentionally do not have a passage of time. I think Mr. Gilroy, 100, if there's one thing he definitely doesn't care about, it's the geography of the planets and how long it takes to commute between them. Yeah, hyperdrive, that's fine. It happens. Yeah. I mean, they, so they travel through hyperlanes, which makes it go a lot faster, but they're still, like, sitting there in time for a while. And the further you go, the longer it takes.

[00:57:48] So, but they are not very consistent or, or they don't, I think Star Wars tries not to define that too much because they're like, ah, it works as the plot needs it to. Yeah, don't, don't try and map it out. It's fine. I did have a big question about this sequence and it's, Kleia, I guess it's twofold. Like, Kleia refuses to be, refuses to leave. Like, she's like, I don't want to, I don't want to go.

[00:58:17] Like, I don't actually need you to rescue me. Like, she wants to communicate the information about Urso, Kyber Crystals, Jedha, Gorm, the energy thing. Like, that's what she wants to communicate. Could she not have communicated that via the Beep Beeps machine? Maybe to, I mean, maybe because it's such like this compacted code, it's only meant for contact emergency come now. Maybe it's not complex enough, but, and also maybe it's just, it's clearly not secure enough.

[00:58:46] Yeah, I just, it's so important. Like Luthun said in the previous episode, I think our time for perfect is behind us. This is the most crucial intel that they found. She can't risk getting caught or killed. Like, and she just has no confirmation that they're coming to get her. Like how long, maybe she would have just waited a couple more days or something and then communicated it.

[00:59:13] But she's the only person that knows this information. It cannot die with her. But I just don't know if the radio has the technical capability to communicate a complex message like that. If it has a blinking light, it can communicate something. You can, the Star Wars Morse code it. But yeah, it's just, it's, I just struggled with that in my brain.

[00:59:36] Well, I mean, we've seen several times in this show that it is, including in this episode, that it is not a secure form of communication. No, absolutely not. Yeah. So maybe that's the key thing. Maybe she would have made that call if they hadn't turned up pretty soon. But she's also like, she is at her wits end in this episode. She's just killed her father figure to save him. And now like, she's worried if she's taken to Yavin, she's going to be treated as an enemy.

[01:00:02] And she's just like repeating these words like a mad woman, like, repeat after me, Gorman, Scarif, the super weapon, the kyber crystals, Galen Erso. Like, okay, lady. Say the words. Say the words. Yeah. So yeah, Gorman, obviously we know what happened there. That was the subject of this season.

[01:00:20] Scarif again, the planet that goes boom at the end of Rogue One, the super weapon being the death star, the kyber crystals that they're taking from Jedha to make the death star and Galen Erso, the architect thereof who has a secret implanted in the death star. Did you expect Erso to turn up at all? Have you been like surprised? Were you disappointed?

[01:00:41] I mean, I thought about, I thought about it and I thought that probably, I wouldn't have been disappointed if he did, but I thought that probably he wouldn't just because he and Jin both have that, you know, they have a pretty complete introduction. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's no real need to play with that. There's no benefit to that. Yeah.

[01:01:06] There's some good prequel novels if you want more of their backstory, but I see why, you know, that works to leave it as is. And yeah. Well, okay. Here's a question. Considering Cassian and Bix, the whole love story we've gotten here, a lot of people have always read Rogue One as a sort of romance between Cassian and Jin. Does that change for you now? People are complicated.

[01:01:32] And I'm, anybody who's listened to me on other podcasts knows I'm not a fan of romance stories. I don't think we need it in, I get the function, but I don't think we need it. I think there's a bravery to not including a romance story at times. So, yeah, it doesn't, that's always been my least favorite part of Rogue One.

[01:01:57] Like, I don't need them to be a couple for me to feel empathy about them dying at the end of the movie. Right. Like, I value them, I value their contribution as individuals, not as a couple. So, yeah, I'm completely fine with it. Like, he can have his thing with Bix and the situation with Jin and contain multitudes. It doesn't, yeah, I'm absolutely fine with that. But I'm probably the wrong person to ask. That's fair.

[01:02:23] I am more into, I mean, I don't think every story needs romance, but I do like it when it pops up. But I always thought in this case, you know, that he and Jin, there was a fun tension between them, I suppose. But it seemed like they really leaned away from making it a romance. And it was really more two people who went through this really hard and important thing together. And now their world's ending. And it's just the two of them in this moment and taking comfort.

[01:02:53] Yeah, that's exactly how I choose to see it. And the situation with Bix has really reinforced that for me. Okay. All right. Well, another odd couple. We have Cassian and Clea both disappointed to see each other on the other side of that door. Of course it's you. Actually, that should have been the episode title. Of course it's you. Of course it's you. I mean, you gotta, from his perspective, he's like, where's Luthan?

[01:03:19] You know, from her perspective, she's like, oh my god, this guy, like ever since the very beginning, this guy's been such a thorn in our side. Yeah. Just been a useful thorn, like one that you can occasionally pull out and stab somebody else with, but it keeps coming back. But he's going to threaten to quit every 10 minutes. He seems to be like, no, don't quit. We need you. You're valuable. Yeah. But it is fun that she is at her wits end and he has to bring her back into the fold now. Right.

[01:03:49] You're only, the future of the rebellion is on Yavin and you've got to come with us. Yeah. We can't leave you here. Yeah. Because, you know, they have this conversation about the fact that basically everyone except for her abandoned Luthan side of things. And he's like, yeah, we left for the group, for the unity. We can't do this on our own. And he says, Luthan's pride prevented him from joining us. And Clea rightfully points out, well, thank the galaxy for that. He stayed for this. He stayed for what I just told you.

[01:04:18] You need to tell those people and you often with her up again. So if Luthan had been more of a joiner, then where would, you know, we wouldn't have the original movie. Yeah. I don't think you have this information. Maybe fewer Bothans would have died, but you definitely wouldn't. That was the second Death Star. Ah, dang it. No. Oh, I've exposed myself. But yeah, I don't think, yeah, you definitely don't have this info. So, um, I've got a question though.

[01:04:46] Do you think Cassian or, um, why can I not remember his name? Melshi? Melshi, yeah. Yeah. Do you think there's a world where they would have left her or would they have killed her? If she insisted on staying on Coruscant, would they have not allowed that because she could have been mind probed? Hmm. Maybe. Because, I mean, we do see, for instance, at the start of Rogue One, we see Cassian,

[01:05:14] meet with an informant on Kafreen and, uh, immediately he, he's like, oh, this guy looks like he's gonna pop and, and gonna say something. And he shoots him right there, even though this was a guy who was helping him. Just, you know, he definitely learned that from Luthin. We saw Luthin do that last episode too. Yeah. Poor Alani. I just, I feel like there's a way, and I wondered if it was gonna go this way, that, um, and or all Melshi or maybe K2SO ends up killing, um, Clea, which would not have been the end I want for her.

[01:05:43] But if she insisted on staying, I think she would have expected that. Like, I think, I feel like the, the unspoken thing was I can't stay on Coruscant because it's too dangerous. So I guess, okay, I'm coming with you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but they really end this episode on like, I think every single person who's watching this is at least in their head screaming at her, just go. Yeah. Get the hell out of there. What more is there for you here? Just do it. Be part of the rebellion.

[01:06:12] Um, yeah, you've done, you've done great. Yeah. And I promise it's much nicer there than in Coruscant. Yeah. Especially your level of Coruscant. With the empire in control. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting to see, cause that's the same safe house that they've, it looks really nice when Cassian and Bix were there a few years ago and now it looks like a slum. Yeah. Because Bix deliberately made it homely when she was being kind of vetoed from missions by Luthan.

[01:06:39] I think there was a couple of lines where she said she's deliberately made it homely and added flowers and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. But I think also it's just under the imperial rule, um, the, the working class has fallen to shit. Oh, but this is quite high up as we pointed out. This is quite high up in the. Yeah. But I think the, the slums are going to get slumier and that 1% is going to get more 1%-y. Mm. Mm-hmm. And this was somewhere in between. So it's going from upper middle class to. Exactly. Yeah.

[01:07:09] Yeah. All right. Well, did you have any other thoughts about this, our in-betweener episode overall? Um, I've, I always come out of it liking it more after talking to you about it, which is annoying because I'm determined to not like things. Um, but yeah, this was, I think it was the weakest of the. Three for me, but it does have some really crucial, um, set up and bridging, um, stuff that happens.

[01:07:35] Um, and yeah, I, not just, I, I still really liked the conclusion to, to this, this series, the final batch of three. Yeah. I, I still really enjoyed it. I had a great time. But this is, I think the best K2SO episode overall. Correct. Yeah. I completely agree. Yeah. He's not much competition, sadly, but this is a good one. Exactly. Yeah. He does what we wanted him to do for sure. Yes.

[01:08:01] Um, and can you tell us what's going on with Captain's Pod, which for anyone who doesn't know is a Star Trek pod. If maybe they might've caught one or two mentions from you. A couple of, a couple of references. It's yeah, it's going to be unavoidable when I want to show you could put me on a show about washing machines and I'd find a way to incorporate Star Trek into it. Um, yeah, we are taking a brief hiatus as I go through a life movement across the world.

[01:08:26] Um, but we will be back with Strange New Worlds where I will be continuing my voyage to reintroduce my co-host Danae to Star Trek and reintroduce her to, um, a show that she once upon a time loved and has drifted from. So we currently have about a 200 episode backlog that you can enjoy. We're going to be re-uploading, um, our coverage of Strange New Worlds season two over the next couple of months.

[01:08:54] So, um, if you subscribe to the pod, our review of that will just hit your, hit your feeds and you can listen to it ahead of Strange New Worlds season three turning up. Okay. And, and or fans watch out for the series finale breakdown coming next from the Delta squadron, which again is David and Aisha from every sci-fi film ever, the podcast, uh, this week. And subscribers will of course get more and or content this week, that Holocron lore cast

[01:09:21] about Bail Organa, the, uh, final rebel squadron radio mini briefing. And some other extras are coming your way. Uh, yeah. Watch it. David especially has, has some plans for that. So if you only want the end or extras plus all the end or episodes from the season and last ad free, you can unlock your own private and or extras listening list for a one-time price of $10, um, monthly supercast and Patreon subscribers will automatically get access to all of that stuff.

[01:09:50] Plus the extras for wheel of time, severance, rings of power, et cetera, et cetera. Um, not to mention the other regular extra extras like our, our movie club, which we're still, we're finally going to do a real pain because and or is finally over. So it's been kind of eating up all our time. Doing a bit of catch up. Nice. Yeah. And there's a couple of weeks left on the last of us with, uh, David and John and Dr. Who, uh, you are joining for the episode six discussion of Dr. Oh, I sure am.

[01:10:19] That is the, of all of the episodes to have a Brit guest on, it's probably the best so far. So yeah, I will, I will do my best to explain the craziness of that episode. It's the interstellar song contest, which anyone who doesn't know in Europe this weekend, it's Eurovision, which is a big thing. And this definitely is tapping right into that. Oh yes. Yeah. The brand cohesion is, is right there. And, uh, John and I also, uh, we just recorded our first murder bot episode, breaking

[01:10:48] down the first two episodes, which are released together. So that will be out on the feeds tomorrow and definitely looking forward to that nice palate cleanser from this heavy and or talk. Yeah, it sure is beautiful, but heavy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And yeah. And then there's going to be more space, uh, with, with these ending for more one shots and another regular series. So, uh, there's also of course all the affiliate feeds. There's nevermind the music where music meets psychology.

[01:11:17] Um, radioactive ramblings are doing a lot of fallout lore right now. We'll shift us. We're starting to, and I promise the star Wars cannon timeline podcast, um, still focused on the high Republic rings and rituals and properly Howard movie reviews. I think they're going to do a Kevin Bacon season soon. Um, you'll find links to all this stuff in the show notes in the link tree. Plus you'll see there the email address and or at the lorehounds.com. If you have any more feedback, do send it in. We're going to be doing a round table wrap up next week.

[01:11:46] Um, and join our discord discussion. It has been hopping. It sure has. Yeah. Discord is a tricky thing to keep up with, but it's, yeah, it's worth it. I saw there's already like hundreds of comments in the and or season finale. People have thoughts and feelings and things to share. I'm sure they do. Um, so yes, you, you, they're separated. The discussions are separated by episodes so that you can keep up and follow it on your own pace.

[01:12:14] And, uh, before we go, I have to do the shout outs. Now I like to do this set to music because some people said that they like it. So this is from the Epic folder. It's called chase. No idea what this is going to sound like, but I predict it's going to be intense. Here we go. I love it. Thank you to our discord server boosters, Aaron K. Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Doove 71, Athena Adjalea, Tina Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost of Perdition, and Radioactive Richard. Thank you to all of our listeners.

[01:12:43] Please do share away. Leave us nice reviews. And subscribers, we love you especially. Most of all, our lore masters are top tier. Samartian, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O.H., Adam S, Nancy M, Doove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garrett C, Matthew M, Sarah M, Andra B, Quang Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex B, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally B, Mothership 61,

[01:13:11] Narls, Kathy W, LeStu, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, Julia F, Collie S, Ilmariel, forward slash Tim, and always last, Adrian. Do you have any final thoughts, Ian? Oh, I'm exhausted. That was incredible. I feel like that was the finale to everything. That was beautiful. All right. Thank you all. May the force be with you. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[01:13:39] You can send questions and feedback to starwarsatthelorehounds.com and get ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at Patreon or Supercast. Connect with us on Blue Sky. Links for everything in the episode show notes. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.