Second Breakfast - Part 2 - Elevenses!

[00:00:00] Hey, John. I know we had second breakfast, but I'm still really hungry. Don't worry, David. It's just about time for elevenses. Oh, thank goodness. That sounds delicious. What's on the menu? We've got a special guest to talk about our second breakfast movie, Anna Claus,

[00:00:15] and we'll be talking about Falling for Christmas. And then we're going to have some rankings by our affiliates and lore friends, Brandon, John, Alicia, Anthony, and Marilyn Arpukula. Sounds like we didn't have enough room in the kitchen for both breakfasts,

[00:00:33] so we had to cut this podcast into two. There's just so much going on. There is. The conversations with our co-hosts, Brandon and John and Alicia and Anthony and Marilyn, some of them were great, and they went kind of long.

[00:00:47] I think it would have been too much to stuff it all into the first breakfast. It's a feast fit for Goldberry's kitchen table. All right, well, let's jump into the first top three rankings with Brandon.

[00:01:03] Brandon the Bard, good to see you. How are you since... Well, we just recorded just a few days ago, so this is the most I've seen you, I think, all year.

[00:01:11] I know. Yeah, we packed it all in right there at the end. I like to be a festive holiday man, and so I can make myself available around that time. I'm good. How about you, man? You've been doing all right?

[00:01:21] We're good. Yeah, all is well. John, unfortunately, can't join us this morning, which is when we're recording. He's got family duties as well. We were supposed to do this earlier, peek behind the curtain, but I had a mandatory dad nap I had to take.

[00:01:35] You do not mess with the dad nap. It's extremely important. Yeah, and you had gone to an ice festival thing, right? And so obviously you were completely exhausted by the fact that you were surrounded by a horde of screaming children.

[00:01:49] Oh, yeah. Disney on Ice, we got to see that. Yeah, our oldest daughter was... She had a blast. I cried. It was great. Awesome. Fabulous stuff. Well, last night we watched my... Our daughter had a friend over

[00:02:02] and they watched the Eros tour, the whole three hours of it. Hell yeah. So we made them popcorn, we get a big batch of double mac and cheese, and then they had my wife and daughter made some cupcakes and then they painted them to look like Taylor

[00:02:21] Swift on the top. They put some icing on it. Okay. Blue eyes, red lipstick, brown bangs. They looked more like the Mr. Bill claymation figure than they did Taylor Swift, but it was really sweet. Sounds like a delightful evening that I'd actually love to have.

[00:02:38] They loved it. They had a great time. They were singing and dancing and jumping on the couch and the table and stuff. So anyway, we're not here to talk about Taylor Swift. She already won Time Person of the Year. I'm always ready to talk about her, but yeah.

[00:02:50] We are here to talk about your three top TV shows for the year. So how was your year in television? I think we talked a little bit about this on the Leave the World Behind podcast. You have not had a lot of free board in your viewing hours.

[00:03:07] Absolutely not. Another peek behind the curtain, there's a baby right next to me and I'm feeding her blueberries so she won't yell while we're trying to do this. If you do hear me yell. So most of the time...

[00:03:18] She's either giving you a thumbs up or a thumbs down on your top three picks. For sure. She's got some pretty strong opinions, as my media will point out. But yeah, like most

[00:03:28] of the time these days, if I have the TV to myself, because I also have a five-year-old, I am trying to play a video game or something to just engage that part of my brain.

[00:03:42] So I have not really consumed very much media in that I went over because we here at the Lore Hounds... David has compiled a giant list of all the TV that's been out that most of us are

[00:03:53] engaging with. I pointed out a couple. Well, no, just one. That wasn't even last year. I think it was the year before with the Halo show. It wasn't on the list, but it's coming next year and I'm excited about it.

[00:04:03] Yeah, it's on the list. I've got a blank entry for it. So I just have to go in and populate the details. Heck yeah. But I struggled really hard to come up with a top 10 and some of them are joke answers at best.

[00:04:15] Right. You had like Sesame Street and Bluey and stuff. Well, Bluey is still my number one. Spoiler alert. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Oops. We spilled the beans. Now the tension will be what slotted in for three and two.

[00:04:29] Absolutely. Do you want me to just go into why Bluey is my number one? Sure. Why not? We're there. Okay. It is just straight up the best show I've ever seen for like they first, they,

[00:04:40] okay, you're going to, you're going to find this sentiment across the internet as far as like parent culture with, you know, with children around my children's age. It's just like they nail it when it comes to that perfect balance of like family entertainment, you know, cringes

[00:04:56] that that may sound, but like there's literally something for everybody. Like, okay, dad is so relatable. The mom is relatable. There are episodes that are just like about one of the earlier episodes is about like what the, what it feels like to send your child to sleep by

[00:05:12] themselves without you. Like the most recent season that came out, it's been out in Australia for a while, but it just came out this year. So it counts as this year's entertainment.

[00:05:23] The most recent season that came out on Disney plus had a episode that was about the main character's aunt isn't able to have children. So she's always struggled with coming to visit her nieces because it makes her really heartbroken to be around children when she can't have them

[00:05:39] herself. So like, it's like, it's like real shit in this cartoon and the episodes called onesies because they, you know, the kids run around and one of them acts like, uh, like the onesie that

[00:05:51] she's wearing. So she's like a, like a mean tiger the whole time. But meanwhile, the parents, the adults in the show are struggling with this. So like there's real stuff in there that, you know,

[00:06:01] the parents will sit there and be crying at the TV while the kids are laughing. So I mean, like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a good show. I know a lot of like adults who don't have children that

[00:06:11] also enjoy the show, but if you do have kids, you're missing out if you're, if you're not watching bluey, if your kids will allow you to put that on the TV, I recommend it. It's on Disney

[00:06:19] We have completely missed the bluey boat. And, um, I don't, I wonder if, uh, at eight, uh, she would still be engaged with the content. Maybe bluey is seven. So she, uh, okay.

[00:06:35] You know, and it's a smart show. So like it doesn't talk down to children either. That's one of the, that's one of the good things about it. So I think older kids would like it, but I do have an example

[00:06:44] of probably like, I think nine-year-olds that think it's for kids and they don't want to watch it. They want to watch, you know, the grownup kids on Disney channel and like, you know, like, uh,

[00:06:56] you know, if it were around, I don't know exactly because my kids aren't, you know, that age, but like all that or whatever, like from when I was a kid or Keenan and Kel like that kind of show. Right.

[00:07:08] That's what they're into now, but who knows, man, give it, give it a whack. If you can, if you can get her to watch it, then she might love it. Sounds good. All right. Well, why don't we just work our way down since we're at one?

[00:07:19] What's your number two? The Last of Us, easily the best, like. Got it. I cannot believe how good it was. Um, I, we obviously, uh, me and, uh, John did a podcast

[00:07:28] on the game. So I, I got like, uh, um, like, what would you call it? Just a concentrated dose of The Last of Us this year with playing the game for the first time and the TV show. And it is just so,

[00:07:42] so good. Um, the cast crushes it, the, you know, I guess we can talk about the game. So yeah, it's like the gold standard as far as like a narrative game, uh, a great adaptation

[00:07:54] in general, like they, they, they pick and chose the right things except that the show had a little bit less clicker action than, than most of the game players would have liked. I know Lily that's,

[00:08:07] that's, that's right. Uh, but yeah, but, uh, but yeah, what's not to say that hasn't been said in many, many hours of podcasting by folks like you and, and myself. Yeah. Great show. I'm sure this

[00:08:20] is not a controversial pick. No. And, and, uh, when we reveal the community draft, uh, you will see where it lands and it is very, very, very high. I bet.

[00:08:31] Yeah. And I think it ranks across, uh, uh, John and I's quite high as well. I mean, it was every episode was a banger. There was not a dead episode among the bunch. And as you said,

[00:08:43] that the acting and the plot and the adaptation was all just spot on huge feels. It was a really emotionally big show. Yeah. I mean, the closest thing to a filler episode was one of the best

[00:08:56] episodes of television I've ever seen with, uh, with, with bill and, uh, I can't remember his name, but Holy shit. What a, what an episode. And also like, that's one of the things that

[00:09:06] the rare improvements on the adaptation, right? Like it was good in the game, but like it just blew it out of the water on the show. So yeah, absolutely. Okay. What's your number three show? I'll leave the world behind actually. Oh, well, well that's a movie though.

[00:09:22] That's true. We can click it down. If you like the number three show, uh, we got to go way down the list. The next one funny enough is Sesame street. Do we want to go Sesame street or do we

[00:09:34] want to go? Why the hell not? Uh, always which version of Sesame street is this? So didn't they move to HBO? They did now max I think is the main place for them. So they've sort of changed format

[00:09:49] over the years. Uh, they almost lost their whole shirt for a while, which is very sad because much like me, even you, even probably, Hmm. My parents, Sesame street has just always been there.

[00:10:00] So it's kind of neat to follow through the years. Hooper's store is still there. He's just obviously not running it anymore that they've changed like a 30 minute thing. And it's kind

[00:10:09] of, kind of sad because like they're doing a lot of stuff that works well on a tablet for a kid. So like sure. Right. Uh, you know, to the point they're not really as long episode,

[00:10:20] long plots anymore. It's a lot of more, you know, stuff the kids will look at and ignore. Oh, she's done the blueberries. We're almost done here. Well, we better wrap it up. Maybe,

[00:10:31] but I can actually go through the little list here because this is literally everything I watched. Okay. I loved righteous gemstones. I didn't get to watch the whole thing. It's a great show. And

[00:10:41] this season seemed to be good. Mando I thought was pretty all right. Ah, Soca is just narrowly edging out sister wives. I super didn't enjoy a Soca and maybe we can get into this later. I loved seeing

[00:10:56] Hayden's Anakin again. That was great. I loved some of their choices there, but most of the Disney star Wars choices I didn't like. Right. Yeah. So I guess we got a bluey. We got the last

[00:11:06] of us and a Sesame street. That is your TV viewing for the year. What, what a year it has been. Well, what is your among that August list? Uh, what is your quote unquote guilty pleasure show?

[00:11:24] What is the show that you would never rank, but you just enjoy the heck out of probably Sesame street. But, uh, sister wives is definitely the one that I didn't even watch.

[00:11:34] It was just on in the background and I would avoid the television when my wife was watching it. Same thing with 90 day, honestly, which I know John's a big fan of. Right. And what is your biggest miss? I always feel like I miss the foundation. That's one

[00:11:53] that I, uh, I know I'd love and I just can't, I can't get around to doing it. Obviously with my, my schedule and with my interests, there's several of these shows that, uh, I'd love to

[00:12:05] get to, but I never do. But foundation is just the one that's like, man, this is so like pitched right at me and I'm just not watching it. Got it. Yeah, no, that's a, that's a solid big miss

[00:12:14] for you for sure. I think you would, you would really dig it. And what is your most anticipated show? And again, it doesn't have to be for next year. It can be anytime. Like what is the thing

[00:12:25] that you're really excited for it to eventually return? I definitely have sort of a top three on here, but like realistically the last of us, I want to see season two really bad.

[00:12:34] Halo. It's awful. It's dog shit. Yeah, pretty much. But, uh, you know, I just want to, I want to see what you want to be in the world, right? You want to hang out or you want to see the armor

[00:12:45] or you want to see the aliens and all that stuff. Yeah. And I just want to be covered in the show that they're going to do. Like it's just going to be awful and I want to bask in it. And then

[00:12:54] obviously house of the dragon, like God damn, it's going to be great. Can't wait. I think this year is going to be quote unquote fire. I know. Absolutely. You know, fire and blood. Yep. Uh,

[00:13:03] hopefully amazing. Brandon. Well, thanks so very much for dropping in here and balancing a microphone in one hand and a bottle in the other. Uh, hopefully your schedule, your life schedule

[00:13:16] will open up a little bit this next year. So we'll get you on the mic a bit more, but really great to have you in the, our podcasting community. You were our first actual official co-host because

[00:13:28] yeah. When did you do the game thing? I definitely am the co-host probably with the least amount of airtime. Yeah. I was just doing the, I was just doing some accounting and you have the least

[00:13:37] amount of appearances. Well there's, I think Moses overall with one piece, but that's specifically just for a very niche show. So for sure. And we got something in the can, but that's going to be

[00:13:47] coming eventually. But yeah, like, uh, we, we got some, we got some irons in the fire. We're going to be recording more. Hopefully. Yeah. This one lets me go a little bit longer and record more

[00:13:56] things. But I had a lot of fun recording the other day doing, um, the one shot for the leave the world behind. I love that. So looking forward to doing more with you guys in the new year. It's going to

[00:14:05] be absolutely, I just saw Godzilla last night. Godzilla minus one. So jealous. Was it good? Uh, it was, it was interesting in, in a lot of different, well, we need to talk about,

[00:14:15] we need a podcast to talk about it. So that's true. If you get around to seeing it, we can do a one-shot for it. I would love to do that. I might, I might be able to sneak away from my

[00:14:23] house for a little while. Sounds good. Brandon, thanks so very much. Have a great rest of your holidays and we look forward to seeing you more on the mic in 2024. Thanks a lot. John, welcome. Thank you for jumping on with us. How are you doing?

[00:14:42] I'm good, man. Thank you for having me guys. Yeah, absolutely. How's your TV year been? What do you, how are you feeling about the year and visual content? I'm pretty happy with 2023. Oh yeah? Yeah, I think 2023 was a pretty good year

[00:15:00] aside from one major, uh, that we won't ever talk about, but we don't talk about that show, but, um, yeah, 2023 was, was a good year for me. I thoroughly enjoyed most of the things that I

[00:15:15] watched. Uh-huh. And, um, yeah. Good. That's awesome. It's been a weird back half of the year for some reason with releases, not even necessarily strike related, just, you know, there's there, I just felt like there was a whole bunch of shows that got rushed out at the end.

[00:15:31] And yeah, it was, I think so. I think so. I think, but on the whole, the things that I actually sat down and watched, I liked, you know, there's not, there are not a lot of big complaints for me.

[00:15:46] Excellent. Excellent. Why don't we just jump right in and what is your number three for the year? That would be Snowfall, the final season. Snowfall. God. I've never heard of this in my life. What's the pitch?

[00:16:01] Snowfall tells the story of a young drug dealer coming up in LA in the eighties at the inception of crack cocaine, uh, working with, uh, working with the CIA agent and, you know, nefarious South American, Central American, uh, drug cartels and his slow descent into madness. Basically,

[00:16:27] this was probably one of my top crime stories that I've watched on TV. And this last season, you know, Franklin, that's the main character's name. He was totally, um, it was engaging to watch

[00:16:44] him become the thing that he said that even though he was dealing drugs and he knew what he was doing, the way it ended, it was not pretty. And to watch him to sit into that madness was really great. It was really great.

[00:16:59] So what was this? Was a, this is an, a Hulu show FX on Hulu. Yes. On a, yeah. Interesting. They're doing pretty well with that. Like every time I see that branding, I go, huh, that might be good. Right. FX is like a mini HBO.

[00:17:15] Yeah. But they got, you know, the bear, they've got Fargo. So I'm saying, and then, and then Hulu is a solid streamer. So, you know, it's a platform. Now they're merging it into Disney. So we'll see how that goes.

[00:17:29] It's going to be a tile on Disney, which should, it should be a benefit to Disney, not the other way around. Not the other way around. Definitely. Yeah. Well, we'll see, cause it's, it's complicated. I don't want to talk about that right

[00:17:39] now. Let's talk about what you like, Charles. Yes. And, and, and there are some interests who the, the protagonist, um, he, yeah, it's just a, a, a really nice look at the entire scene and they got it down. So, so Pat, like I'm not from LA,

[00:18:02] but I know, you know, how the eighties played out across the inner cities in this country. And they, they just really did a great, a great job at just the overall feel, the grittiness, the,

[00:18:19] you know, characters, the costuming, everything was so on point. Just really a great, great, great watch for me trying to find someone go ahead. I was just gonna say, I'm going to put this on my deep background watch list, you know,

[00:18:33] things that I know I should watch at some point. Yeah. And I'm probably going to rewatch the entire series sometime in 24. So yeah, but it was really good. I was really happy with that. And, um, yeah. So

[00:18:48] still fall takes number three for me. Nice. Okay, cool. All right. Uh, what's your number two? That would be Loki. Oh, that's a big rank. Yeah, that would be Loki. That would be, I absolutely love the season.

[00:19:05] There's, you know, we, we went in depth on it. Um, you, you heard me every week. You just lowered the program, the show. I just really, I thought it did everything that it needed to do.

[00:19:18] And it did everything that I wanted it to do. Nice. So if it gives me that, then, you know, I can't complain much about it. And the acting of course was a one, but just the overall cohesion

[00:19:32] in the story and how they ended it and how we got to the end I felt was really, really well done. So Loki is number two for me. Yeah. Wow. New spoilers yet because, uh, we're still working out the editing for

[00:19:47] the top 10 community ranking, but I will say that Loki ended up pretty high in the rankings. It's solid in the top 10. So. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I can see why. John just caught up to it. If John famously not an MCU

[00:20:03] fan, you, uh, you caught up with it and you, I think you enjoyed it. It's on my rankings. I won't tell you where. Oh wow. Okay. But it's on my rankings, which I didn't expect. That's big. I didn't expect it to be on your rankings.

[00:20:15] That's huge for John. It really is an accomplishment for an MCU show to make it onto my radar. Yeah. And the feels in the last segment as Loki's ascending were just, ah, so sublime, visually beautiful, the music, the emotions, the journey that he went on. It was really,

[00:20:36] really something special. I don't think there's nothing quite, especially within the comic book frame, there's nothing that has quite hit that same way. So. And you know, the way that you just said that it's like for both of those for snowfall and for

[00:20:51] Loki, like the final shot, the final, right. As it, as the shows are ending, what's so captivating for me, just really encapsulated a lot of fields and a lot of emotion for different reasons for

[00:21:07] each of those shows. But it just is, I think really good storytelling when it ends and you're like, fuck, oh shit. Yeah. Just good stuff. Good stuff. Right. Hits the spot right on. Cool. Okay. What's your number one show for 2023? My number one show, The Last of Us.

[00:21:30] Oh, nice. Yeah. You just couldn't miss. I never played the game. They didn't miss. I never played the game. Yeah, that was just. It was a great show. Every episode, there was not a dog in it.

[00:21:48] I will say not flawless in my opinion, but it was very, very, very, very good. If it's not for me, it was close to flawless. If I don't know if anything can be flawless. Oh yeah.

[00:21:59] For me, it was pretty, pretty much that like that was, you know, appointment viewing. You know, it was like we used to have back in the days when we were, you know, I got a pencil in,

[00:22:12] I got to sit at, you know, at eight o'clock at night and just be there to watch it because I know, you know, as soon as it's over, I'm running outside to talk to my friends about it.

[00:22:25] That's how The Last of Us had me because each episode I felt like I need to call somebody and talk about what I just watched. Right. You know what I mean? You didn't play the video game, right? I didn't play the video game. Okay.

[00:22:39] I didn't, I'd never played the video games. Most of my friends have, I'm the only person who has an Xbox among my group of friends who are gamers. I know you have an Xbox as well, John. Yeah.

[00:22:53] But I don't have a PlayStation so I never played it and they've always talked about the game. So I knew that it was a really great game, right? But just watching it, man, man, just, it was an amazing show. It was an amazing show. It was great.

[00:23:16] I think I honestly judged it a little more harshly because I had played the video game and it felt- Oh wow, okay. You have to really wow me with the show and the changes you're making

[00:23:27] to give me the same emotional effect I had when I first see the twist at the end, right? Right. In case anybody hasn't seen it, I won't spoil that, but that last episode has such an emotionally

[00:23:38] gut-wrenching twist and it of course loses some impact if you already know what's going to happen. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That I can see. I can definitely see that. But I don't know. I just felt like they hit everything on the head. There was not a hiccup.

[00:23:56] There was not a misstep for me. And again, it just felt like a point when viewing. Yeah. Season two seems like it's going to be great. I'm really looking forward to all of it. Excited for it, definitely. Wasn't there some news about them starting up filming again? Yeah.

[00:24:12] I think there's been rumors of they finally cast one of the main characters that only shows up in two. Okay. So we'll see. All right. Yeah. So hopefully 2025, we'll be back. That's the thing about these big, heavy hitter shows, especially if they've got big name stars,

[00:24:32] we don't get our annual thing. We get to wait two or three years for next seasons. Yeah. Well, the nice thing with The Last of Us is it's a short enough property that they have.

[00:24:43] There's only two games that they could wrap it up within three seasons and it would feel rushed. Right. That's good. Cool. Well, that's a heavy hitting list there, Jean, with some shows with some big emotional punch to them. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Jean likes to cry.

[00:25:02] That's what I learned today. That's right. A man with an emotional side to him. What is your quote unquote guilty pleasure show? What is a show that wouldn't necessarily rank, but you enjoyed the heck out of nonetheless? The Witcher. Nice. I love it.

[00:25:26] Was it season two this year? No, man. We played season four, I think. Of The Witcher? Yeah. It was like three seasons in already. That's crazy. How was the season? What did you think? It was so cheesy, but I loved it. Yeah. Is it still Henry Cavill? Yes.

[00:25:47] This was his last season, was his final go around. But yeah, it doesn't compare to the top three that I- No, right. That's why this is the quote unquote guilty pleasure. Yeah, it doesn't compare to those, but it was just fun watching. I wasn't into the story.

[00:26:12] I've played the game, so I haven't read the books, unfortunately. But it was just turn it on and zone out. And I appreciated it for that. Right. Right? So I- Some goofy entertainment. Yeah, goofy entertainment.

[00:26:31] And I got to see a live action girl out, which is so cool because I've played the games. Sure. So that's why it's my guilty pleasure. Good stuff. And what was your biggest miss? The bear. Haven't caught up. Gotta do it. I know, I know, I know.

[00:26:51] Did you watch season one? Yeah. Okay. Oh, dude. You're in for a treat. Yeah, haven't done it. I think season two is better and- It is. Wow. So- It's way better. Wow. Okay.

[00:27:04] And that's the thing about a show like that is that, wait, how do you come off a season one like that and do a season two even better and they deliver? It's truly extraordinary. Yeah. Yes.

[00:27:19] So I'm going to catch up hopefully over the holidays, the next few weeks early in 2024, I'll rectify that miss. And what is your biggest anticipated returning show? And again, it could be anything, it could be even something that's a couple of years out. Daredevil. The new one.

[00:27:40] Yeah, the new Daredevil. I think that's because I think it's going to... I enjoyed those Netflix, the Netflix Marvel shows. What did they call it? The Defenderverse? Yeah. I don't know why they call it because that Defender ensemble show was terrible. That's right. It was.

[00:28:02] I watched most of all those and Luke Cage was great. The early Daredevil was great. Yeah. And Jessica Jones. Great. Then they had Defenders and Iron Fist were horrible. Yes. Horrible. Yes. Terrible. I'm excited to see Charlie Cox back as our hero. Yeah.

[00:28:24] And I want to see where they take it, bringing those characters or that character right now into the MCU main, which is something... Did you hear about in the Spider-Man video game, John?

[00:28:36] They, in the first one, I think it was, they had evicted on their office in the Spider-Man video game. I did not. And then the second one, they took the sign down. So now it's just as Nelson and Maltins. Oh, wow. Or Nelson Murdoch, sorry. That's really cool.

[00:28:54] Oh man, that's awesome. That is awesome. I did not know that. So I think they're hinting to they're bringing them back. Yeah, that they're bringing them back. That's really cool. That's great. So yeah, I'm waiting for that.

[00:29:06] I want those characters and I'm hoping that Daredevil does well enough that we get these other characters as well from the Netflix Marvel shows. That'd be great. Bring back David Tennant as Kilgrave. I'll be happy. Yeah, man. Come on. We got to get more Purple Man.

[00:29:23] Got to do it. Got to do it. Great villain. I'll watch him in anything. So just anything he's used to have him on screen. Yeah, definitely. So, and you and Alicia are still in the kitchen cooking. We're waiting to see what you guys are going to serve up.

[00:29:39] We're going to be doing some Marvel DC things in 2024. Comic book superhero comparisons loosely. We'll talk a little bit more about that as we talk a little bit more about it amongst ourselves.

[00:29:54] So that's going to be great to have on our plate and to let Cloud for in 2024. Yeah. Well, John, thank you so much for all that you've contributed this last year.

[00:30:06] And it's really great to have you in the corner of that with comics and video games as well. And yeah, it's, I don't know. It's just been a great fun. It's fun to assemble our little team here and it's really, really loved having you on the pod.

[00:30:23] So it's been, it's been a great thing for me. I get to talk about all these things that I love and do it with people that are really cool. So this is, this is awesome. Glad to have you part of the, the lore fam. I don't know.

[00:30:38] No, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to use that. Lore fam hashtag lore fam. No, I'll do that. It works. I think so. I think so. I tried. Yeah. You, you've got more, more, you succeed more often than you fail.

[00:30:52] John, I just throw shit out and it sticks. I'm still waiting for it. She's saying the thing, something's going to work. That's how I feel. Thank you guys. All right, John. Thank you. Have a great holidays and we'll be out with you soon. All right, everybody be well.

[00:31:14] Alicia, thanks for dropping in. How are you doing? Doing well. I just finished wrapping up the Dr. Who episode. That was a fun one to discuss. It was. Oh, cool. Yeah. And you have, we have a special guest for that episode as well. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:29] My who mentor Simon. He's he grew up with a, he's from the UK. He's from England. He grew up with the whole culture of who, so it's a different perspective than we have.

[00:31:41] Well, fingers crossed the new season will be, and with the new doctor will be fun and exciting and you guys will get to do some coverage on it. Yeah. Off to a promising start. Speaking of coverage, our top three for the end of the year.

[00:31:53] How was your TV year overall? Did you feel like you had a good year in, in what we got delivered to us via the interwebs? Honestly, the amount of quality content's been overwhelming. Like last year, 2022, my top three, easy peasy.

[00:32:09] It was severance and or, and, and interview with the vampire. So anyone who hasn't watched those watches immediately, but this year I've really been, I have an obvious top two, which I think most people who know me can predict.

[00:32:23] And then I've really been struggling with the rest of the list. So like I said, I changed it just before we got on. Excellent. Yeah. All right. Well, let's start with your top three. What is your number three show for 2023? Oh, we're starting with number three. Yeah.

[00:32:38] Well, otherwise this podcast would be four hours long. No, no, no. I meant rather than counting down to three, because the three is the one that I struggle with the most. You have to build suspense. Yeah, fair enough.

[00:32:50] But doesn't everyone know what I'm going to say for number one? But okay. I think I have a bet. I'd take that bet. For number three, ooh, we're going to land on The Last of Us. Ooh, okay. Okay. All right. That was tough.

[00:33:05] Apologies to the fall of House of Us, your Gilded Age Rick and Morty. Right. When you get above the five level, it really does become a battle of millimeters. Yeah. And it's also like, what parameters am I judging on? Exactly.

[00:33:18] That's why I had to develop a whole schematic thing for myself to try to resolve those conflicts. Right. So Last of Us, it really ranks solid in the community draft and we'll reveal the final when we do. But yeah, it was a really good season. It was solid.

[00:33:39] Yeah. Just individual episodes and overarching story. And yes, I am a fan of the video game, so that could play a role too. Yeah, John- And a fan of the cast.

[00:33:49] When it was coming up and we were deciding on what we were going to do, John, you were very excited when we decided to make the decision. Pro The Last of Us for sure.

[00:34:01] And then Brandon and I even covered the video game because we were trying to keep the train going. And hopefully we'll get a great season two. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah. All right. What is your top two? So number two is Silo. Very good.

[00:34:18] I mean, it was genuinely, of course, I have a bias and I think that I rank anything that I cover in depth a little bit higher in most cases other than the show that shall not be named.

[00:34:29] But just when you're covering something like this, you're looking at it more closely and also being a fan of the source material. But I just appreciate the level of balance of mystery box and excitement and character building and drama and world building.

[00:34:45] They really built an amazing world visually and character wise. Yeah, for sure. Yes. John, you were a pretty big fan of that. I really liked Silo a lot. It's on my list. It's on my list. It's- Okay. It's- We haven't revealed ours yet. The placement has been tough.

[00:35:00] Right. The placement has been tough. But it's on there. It's a tough year. Yeah. It is. That's fair. All right, Alicia, this is it. Your number one top show for 2023 is... I feel like we could all say it at the same time. It's The Wheel of Time. Yeah.

[00:35:17] John's probably just there smirking. Yes, I am. I knew it. I knew it. I will not reveal what's going on with that on my side. But it was very much an enjoyable season. It was a big improvement over season one.

[00:35:33] So I can see why you put it there. I also like season one. But again, it comes down to this is just a world that I am... Even more than Silo, this is a world that I love, that I have spent a lot of time in mentally.

[00:35:48] And for me, the way that they've brought it to life has been very satisfying. Also adding new elements to it that I enjoy that make it more exciting for me even. Yeah. And the writing this season, there's just some beautiful, heart-wrenching, and sometimes even funny writing. So yeah.

[00:36:08] Yeah, it's true. Good. Awesome. Do you think Wheel of Time is your most favored IP of all the IP worlds that you're living in? You asked me a similar question before. Did I? I've been thinking about it since, and I think the answer is yes. Okay.

[00:36:26] I think Star Wars and Marvel are also up there, but I have to say I probably spend more of my free time living in the Wheel of Time universe in my head than any other. Nice. Okay, great.

[00:36:39] Well, it's great that we have a super fan in our ranks. Yeah, I think the White Tower segment with you and John, I didn't listen to them, but I was really glad that we had those as part of our podcast. It was great.

[00:36:52] Yeah, and Alicia, you saved me from diving quite as deep as I would have you either ways. Because I already have to keep so much Tolkien lore in my brain. I don't know if I could handle always having everything Jordan in my brain at the same time.

[00:37:07] Yeah, no, exactly. I've decided there's three massive universes that I will attempt to shove this much knowledge in, and then be like, actually, that's not even true because Dune's in there. I don't know. No, no. My brain's a messy place.

[00:37:21] My brain's like the TARDIS with different rooms for different IPs. Yeah, it has to be, right? Don't go into Dr. Donna territory where you can't store it in your brain. Yeah, that's true. Okay, so this is your chance for your quote unquote guilty pleasure.

[00:37:36] We were admonished to say that pleasure shouldn't be guiltified in that way. But what is a show that- Oh, no. What's that? I'm ashamed of this. I'm ashamed of this. Oh, you're ashamed. But there's, I rarely make time to watch reality, crap reality, romance,

[00:37:57] I think John, what is yours? It's the 90 Day Fiance. That's it. Yeah. Okay. I still haven't watched that one. But I watched, there was a new one on Amazon called Twin Love. And it's where they have identical twins.

[00:38:10] And then they put them in separate houses and then let them date and see how they, if they date the same people and stuff. And then they are eliminated and it ends up breaking up couples. And I watched this entire season in about two or three days.

[00:38:25] That's amazing. That's awesome. It's not a good show. It's a fun show though. Sometimes we just need that pure base entertainment, right? Yeah. It's really okay. Just enjoy yourself. Okay. And what was your biggest miss for the year? That's another really tough question because there are so many.

[00:38:45] It was such a packed year. I've got like two or three in my category. I think I ultimately settled on Hotel V just because I feel like I can't even watch- Gen V or Hotel V? Sorry, sorry. Gen V, sorry. Got it. Welcome to the Hotel Botanfornia.

[00:39:02] But yeah, I can't even dive into the new boys trailers yet because I haven't caught up on, sorry, Gen V. And I think the new boys season is going to pick up where Gen V left off, right? Yeah. That's what it sounds like.

[00:39:18] And I hear it's quite good. So I really need to do that. And yeah, Blue-Eyed Samurai and a bunch of other things and Queen Charlotte. Yep. Yeah. There was a lot. They pushed a lot right at the end of the year. It was a bit of a mess.

[00:39:31] Cool. And your, wait, is your number one show the same as your most anticipated return? Yes, of course. That was not a hard guess. Yeah. Is there anything besides that, obviously? Is there anything else that would fit in as a slightly lower tier for your most anticipated-

[00:39:49] Most anticipated non-Wheel of Time return? Yes. Well then, Silo. I mean, Silo season two. Okay. More than Andor? Um, ooh. Yes. You can have a double. You can have a double truck there. You can put them- I think more than Andor.

[00:40:05] Well, because then it's like, I would actually rank Interview with a Vampire above Andor. And maybe that's what I should say. Oh, where is he? Oh no, it's a really good show. Anyone who watches it, the writing is just spectacular. Really? Yeah, it is.

[00:40:19] You've been talking it up for a while. It's a really good show. So, and they've been teasing also the next season because it's also another one of those things where like, I don't know quite what they're changing from the books. It's a lot of fun to speculate.

[00:40:31] Right, right. So, it's not the books. It's not the- They've definitely, they've made, I mean, it is and it isn't. Okay. Like all the adaptations. The slider moves more towards inspiration. No, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. Oh really?

[00:40:46] There are some significant changes made, but it's very much an adaptation. Okay. That's cool. Great. Well, Alicia, thanks so much for dropping in. Thank you so much for being such a vibrant and exciting part of our community.

[00:40:57] We are so pleased to have you with us and we're really looking forward to an exciting 2023. John, any final words for Alicia? The wheel weaves and looking forward to chatting with you about season three. Hopefully we get it next year because we've- I like being with you.

[00:41:12] I think they've filmed it already, right? Yeah, it's almost, last I heard it was about to be done. They were just filming some last things in- Okay. The waste. South Africa, I mean, sorry.

[00:41:25] God, could you imagine Rings of Power, House of the Dragon and Wheel of Time all in 2024? God, that's- Wow. That would be intense. Clear your schedules. Fans, TV is back. That's right. TV is back, baby. Fantasy TV, especially too. Yeah, for sure. All right, Alicia, thanks so much.

[00:41:44] Any final words for the listeners? I just hope that you guys all have a great holiday season and it's been so nice to share my passions with you all and can't wait to do that again in 2024.

[00:41:59] Anthony, thanks for joining us for this year-end wrap up and your top three. How are you? How has your TV year been? Well, it's always a pleasure. I've really enjoyed a few shows and I'm trying to get caught up on a few things that I've heard

[00:42:21] are decent watches. Right, and we're recording this in sort of earliest December, so there's still some late entries trying to run for the finish line here. Now, for my, the things that if I was just going to settle in and enjoy something on my own,

[00:42:42] it would probably be an old movie. But saying that, there still has been some television this year that I've really, really enjoyed. I was thinking about this today when I was looking at your email with your picks and stuff. Are you a TV hobbyist?

[00:43:01] I don't know this about you. Are you somebody who TV is a thing for you or are you very selective and are looking at the quality of the show? Of course, we're all lucky in that we get to podcast because we want to podcast.

[00:43:17] And so I see some of your picks are definitely related to that. But are you a hobbyist around television? I never used to be and I would have never said that about myself. I think film has always been kind of the thing that I most loved.

[00:43:32] And then about, I would say about 15 years ago, there was a major shift. And I felt like at that time, I don't know when to pinpoint it. Somewhere between The Wire and Game of Thrones, there was this shift where the best writing

[00:43:53] and the best acting you would see on a scripted TV series. And there was a little bit of a fall off at the movie theaters. Now it's kind of like a crap shoot. Like you could easily see something like Oppenheimer and be blown away. No pun intended.

[00:44:17] But then you could also run into something like Chernobyl and be blown away. Totally. Definitely pun intended at that time. So yeah, I guess I was never really a TV guy much until more recently.

[00:44:32] And now there are certain shows that I love as much as any movie that I've ever seen. I mean, certainly in the days of the, what was it? Thursday nights when you had like Cheers and Cosby and that whole thing. And those were really ephemeral shows, 20 plus episodes.

[00:44:53] They had that traditional model where the summers were off and the reruns and stuff. Oh, absolutely. Well, there's that. I mean, that is such a great point. Thursday nights were a thing. A thing. Because there was maybe three good shows on television.

[00:45:10] There were only three that were worth watching. They were all put together on Thursday night. And then you had to wait till Saturday Night Live before something else that was worth watching. So now it's sort of like any Friday nights you're waiting for,

[00:45:28] or Fridays you're waiting for Apple to come out with theirs or Sundays you're waiting for HBO. Yeah. Well, I certainly think we had a lot of interesting TV this year. We're doing this community ranking, right?

[00:45:43] So Patreon subscribers can fill out a form with their top 10 and we're going to do some of our data driven members are going to put the data together and we'll be able to get a sort of a community survey of the TV.

[00:45:56] And I was looking at some of the responses and from 10 to about five, it's all over the place. All over the place. And then five to three, it narrows down, but still there are just wild cards of things coming out of there.

[00:46:15] And then one and two, around two, two has the most cohesion. And then one again, scatters off again. Now I want to know. I haven't seen the data. You can look, it's on the Google Drive. Interesting.

[00:46:28] So it's been a really weird year of TV, coming out of the pandemic, I guess, and obviously with the strike and stuff. But we still got a lot of good stuff. Yeah, absolutely. So, well, let's touch off with your top three television shows for 2023.

[00:46:46] What's your, do you have a number three here? I see what you wrote in your email, but I don't see them ranked. Does it matter for you? I think that, yeah, I think that the third overall pick is the gold.

[00:46:59] I don't know if you're familiar with the gold. I am familiar with the gold. Love the gold, used to live in England, did not live in the England in the early eighties when

[00:47:08] this is set, but this is based on a real world bank heist and it's an ensemble cast. You might not, listeners may not recognize a lot of the actors, but the patriarch from Downton Abbey is a, is a. Hugh Bonneville. Yeah, that's right. Yep.

[00:47:28] So he's in it and a lot of, you know, Brits monologuing about how England is based on a class system. Right. And I love it. It ate it up. Just one of the best shows that come out of Britain in a long time in for my money. Anyway,

[00:47:51] It is on my top 10. I will say that. Excellent. Excellent. John, have you seen the gold yet? I have not, not at all. I think David pitched it to me and I just haven't gotten around to it. I've been binging doctor who I'm putting it on me.

[00:48:07] And this would be, this would definitely fall into like a prestige kind of thing rather than a little, you know, not, not campy, trying to be pretty realistic. Although it does lapse into a, you know, center stage monologue sometimes, you know, if,

[00:48:25] if you've ever had any kind of affinity with British culture, this is a really fun show to watch. Well, you heard the last thing I said, right? I'm binging doctor who. So I think, I think I'd like it. I think I'd like it. Sure.

[00:48:39] We'll have to talk another time about the UK. Cause I also lived in the UK for a number of years and. Oh, you did? Where were you at there? I was in London in a couple of different places.

[00:48:49] So yeah, we did, we experienced the two, the two different Englands. I was in Durham. So your, your experience in London was night and day from my experience in the coal, the, the, the vacant coal mines of Durham England.

[00:49:06] So number two or the number two on my list. Are you ready for that? Yes. I'm ready. All right. This, this of course is going to be on everyone's top three. This is the bear. Absolutely amazing show.

[00:49:19] I just, I honestly didn't think that season two would be better than season one. And I think maybe it wasn't, maybe a season one was better, but. The Christmas episode with the dish of the seven fishes.

[00:49:36] Oh, what an amazing, I literally watched that episode three times and my wife was like, how can you watch that again? It's such a good. It's it's so tense, but there's just so many really funny moments and it's just a tour to force in filmmaking. Yeah.

[00:49:59] That hour of television as is as good as anything I saw in a theater over the last 10 years. And then when you wrap it with the other episodes about the side plots of the characters, when I forget what's his name goes to Copenhagen and stuff like that.

[00:50:14] The, those episodes, some of those episodes are so sublime. Yeah. And, and just in these quiet moments and, and these evolutions of Carmi's characters and stuff, and then you have that cacophony that is the Christmas episode, but it's exquisite in its design and its execution. Yeah.

[00:50:36] There's so much, so many of these emotional threads are leading to that episode. And then that episode kind of circles back and explains why so many people in this family are messed up. Yeah. I think that episode and just the overall structure of this season made it stronger

[00:50:54] than season one for me. I mean, season one, I really liked, but I had a false start on it. Like I had to come back to it and restart it. And it didn't make me want to rush to the end.

[00:51:05] Season two, I was in a marathon towards the end because I was just like, this is the best TV I've seen all year pretty much. Now, John, you are Italian. Did you have a big family, big Italian family?

[00:51:17] Well, yes, but my holidays were all with my Irish side of the family where nobody comes. So you were quietly suffering and reading poetry and whatnot. Indeed. Well, I am one of six children, a big Italian family,

[00:51:34] lots of aunts and uncles and cousins and people who are not related to us at all. And it was always chaos. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, the bear was my number two. Great. Number one on my list is... Reservation Dogs. Nice.

[00:51:54] And this show is maybe in my top five shows of all time. And it's not a show for everyone. It's kind of an acquired taste. It's not like a sitcom where everyone knows where the laugh lines are.

[00:52:14] It's like you kind of have to fall in love with the character and know that a situation or a particular person is funny, but very creative storytelling, a bit of surrealistic casting. And there are dream elements in this film that are crucial to the plot.

[00:52:37] And I don't know, it's unlike any comedy I've ever seen on television. And I just fell in love with the characters in the show. Yeah. John, have you watched any Reservation Dogs? I don't even really know what it is. Like I've heard of the name. Right.

[00:52:55] I don't know what it is at all. Do you Hulu at all? I do Hulu. I bared and I... Yeah. I would say if you kind of like quirky comedies, I would say give it three episodes or whatever. But if you don't like it, then just... All right.

[00:53:18] Think about it again. I do like quirky comedy. I like Resident Development, 30 Rock, things like that. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. For me, it's on my biggest miss. I have not watched a... I think my spouse and I watched episode one, season one when it came out. Yeah.

[00:53:33] And then we just kind of never got back around into it. And I keep the season, the year will go by and I'm like, oh, dang, I didn't watch Reservation Dogs. And then it was like, oh, and then I heard this season was phenomenal and that they really

[00:53:47] landed the plane on this one. And it was just a gorgeous show. And I feel like I need to be in the space for it. Right. In the same way that The Bear had one standout episode, there is a, I think, a standout episode in this latest season.

[00:54:07] And you'll know it when you see it because it's like, you'll be blown away and you'll be like, that's certainly standing out from the rest. Anyway, loved it. Two big bits of cinematic art coming out of Oklahoma this year, both Killers of the Flower Moon and Res Res.

[00:54:25] Oh, true. Yeah. Very good point. Great. That's a good list. That's a good, nice little top three. Thank you. I like the gold is that the gold made it onto there. Yeah. I love the gold. Love the gold. It's so good. Okay.

[00:54:39] So we have our three bonus questions. What was your guilty pleasure show for the year? So I don't feel guilty about this at all. However, I do not ever miss an episode of The Great British Bake Off. My wife and I watch this every Friday night.

[00:54:58] Netflix does sometimes just release one episode a week and it's great. And I wish that they would do that for other series. That's true. Like Stranger Things. Great British Bake Off, they do that. That's true.

[00:55:14] And so I just love so much all of the little nuances of British disappointment, you know, all the little subtle burns, all, you know, like the highs are like, if someone bakes something really well, they get a handshake. It's just all so understated.

[00:55:40] And if you've ever lived in England, you kind of like pick up on like, oh my gosh, this is so awesome. So I love it for the personalities, but then it's also kind of cool to see like,

[00:55:54] these guys are amateur bakers and they're pulling off some really amazing feats of confectory. So confectionery. Have you checked out the kids series at all? I haven't, and I kind of feel like it's a little bit like a brownie or a cupcake. It's like, it's super sweet.

[00:56:19] I'll take off maybe one a week. A little bit too much of a sweet tooth thing if I watch more. But anyway. We really enjoyed it. Our eight year old enjoyed watching the, you know, watching the kids go through their trials and tribulations. Confectory. That's the word. Confectory.

[00:56:35] That's it. Okay. Very good. So that, I do not think you'll see it all about that show, but I do, I do. I love it so much. Right. Your biggest miss. Biggest miss. So I have not seen any of our Flag Means Death.

[00:56:53] I've heard great things about it. That's also a Taika Waititi as well. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I, you know, it's, it's right up my alley. I love period. The same person who does what we do in the shadows. Yeah, that's right.

[00:57:08] Oh, so I got to watch all these now. Cause I love doing the shadows. And Taika Waititi also is a producer of Rez Dogs. I don't think he is involved. Directed it. Okay. I don't think he was involved in it somehow. Yeah.

[00:57:23] And then of course he's done some Star Wars. I think he's done some Mandalorian. Oh, okay. So yeah, I have not seen any Flag Means and I have not seen a single episode of Ahsoka. So I, I just, I don't know. I don't know guys.

[00:57:40] I'm just, I don't know. I've got, I'm a little bit reluctant to get into the world of Ahsoka. Is that, is that misplaced? Is that misplaced? No. No, it's not misplaced. It's a, let's just say on the finale breakdown, we got some emails saying we brought the vibe

[00:58:01] down a little bit. I don't know. Like, honestly what I've been doing lately with these shows, like a book of Boba Fett. I watched the first episode. Nope, not interested. And I just watched the season finale and that was it.

[00:58:16] I was like, that's, that's, that's all I need. I kind of can get caught up just watching the first episode in the season finale. Then the same thing with Loki. Oh, as you say, Book of Boba Fett is largely relegated to the dumpster fire outback.

[00:58:33] So don't worry about it. Ahsoka to me was seven great episodes of TV followed by a clunker. And, but you just mentioned Loki. Loki, I will say, I am not a Marvel guy. That's well-known. I loved Loki. I thought it was excellent TV just on its own. Yeah.

[00:58:51] Did you like this, this most recent season? Yeah, I really did. Okay. I liked it. It ended really well. Okay. All right. I yeah, I feel like I'll probably try out Ahsoka at some point. I think I needed a little bit of a break from Star Wars television.

[00:59:11] Sure. That's fair. That's fair. And I'm curious about your anticipated returns. Would you be saying these if you weren't podcasting about them? I think I would. Okay. I think House of the Dragon for sure. I mean, Game of Thrones is easily my favorite show of all time.

[00:59:35] And, and I, and I did not, I did not enjoy House of the Dragon as much as my favorite show of all time, but I really liked it. I really liked House of the Dragon. And it's actually, I've rewatched several episodes and it's grown on me. Okay.

[00:59:55] And I think that- Hopefully not like the Stoneman disease. Okay. I just think that season two is going to be better. I think that they're going to expand and the story gets more compelling.

[01:00:13] I think that there are more elaborate and more complex set pieces that happened season two. So I'm really looking forward to that. And then of course, Severance is, you know my love for Severance. Yeah. You and Steve have been knocking it out with the season one.

[01:00:33] Just not a false move in the entire first season. Not a single dog episode. Not one thing that kind of scratches me. That was kind of a mess. They didn't need that bottle episode or, you know, that character really annoys me.

[01:00:49] No, this, this is a show that had an almost perfect season one. So I don't know, maybe I'm talking myself out of season two because how could you live up to season one? But we'll, we'll see. We'll see when we get to it.

[01:01:05] Well, you can't, I mean, we're the four of us are going to be covering it. And so that alone is going to be fun. And so, you know. Oh, that'll be a lot of fun. And I just have faith in Ben Stiller that he's, he's an amazing filmmaker.

[01:01:20] And I, I just want to believe that season two will pay off some of the questions raised season one. John, you were a big season one fan. I really liked Severance. I think it was my number two show last year. I think so.

[01:01:37] I think that was that on my, on my rankings. Number one was Andor. Yeah. Yeah. Andor was amazing for sure. It was. I rewatched Andor recently and it holds up and is even better. You, you came onto our podcast for the Andor season wrap Anthony. That's right.

[01:01:53] And I sent that podcast, I sent that to Disney to try to get screeners for the Mandalorian or for Ahsoka or something. And they were like, fuck off. No, they just said no. So I, do we know, do we have a date for season two of Andor?

[01:02:10] Do we know anything? Yeah. There, they were filming in the UK. They had to stop because of both DGA and actor issues, even though the principal filming was in the UK and I, and they were halfway through, I think Diego Luna was out on the stump a

[01:02:30] little bit. They were doing some press interviews, press availability with him while they were on a little break mid-season filming. And then he went back in and then right after that was the DGA strike.

[01:02:43] And then I think I've heard something, I think they're back filming and we'll see. We're not sure if it's going to hit this year or next year. It all depends on whether they can put it together and if we'll have time to do a late season release. Okay.

[01:02:58] Well, I'll look forward to that too. Yeah. And then he thanks very much for coming on today and thanks for being part of the crew and been a lot of fun having you and Steve in the mix, especially with the Properly Howard stuff.

[01:03:13] That was a really fun season. I'm looking forward to whatever you guys cook up for your next season. And obviously we've got House of the Dragon and Severance. So yeah, you're going to have a lot.

[01:03:21] That's going to be a lot for you as well as the Bukalu, the ongoing Bukalu stuff. So you're going to be a busy podcaster. I will be. Yeah. We'll have to. Oh, you have your draft. I mean a little bit. Mm-hmm. And also got the draft going on.

[01:03:37] Yeah. Yeah. House of the Dragon Fantasy auction just recently. Thank you for being our auctioneer. I appreciate that. That was a lot of fun. So. And thanks for inviting me on today. All right. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks Anthony. Thanks.

[01:03:57] Marilyn, thanks for being here for our year end review of shows. Of course. How's your TV viewing been this year? How was your year in TV? I'm only watching the things that are being covered by the different shows. Okay.

[01:04:12] Particularly the ones that I'm participating in or extremely interested in. Right. Sending over lengthy comments about. Right. And you're not because you're not really a TV hobbyist as some of us are. No, I'm really not. I haven't had a functioning TV since 1988 in the house.

[01:04:33] What I have now is a television set that I hooked up to DVD VCR player. Yes, I'm that old. But when I was teaching, there were some things, materials that I could only get on VCR. So I needed to have both things.

[01:04:47] And now I have a little magic box that Bob worked out for me very nicely that allows me to do streaming. And so that. Oh good. That makes it possible. Baiting you into the TV watching sphere. Well, you're not giving me any more hours in a day.

[01:05:03] Right now we're only taking more hours. We should do this project and we should do that project. And what about this book? I was the one who pumped Mrs. Davis. So. Right. I'm right in there with you. It's showing up on a lot of the community surveys.

[01:05:17] It's showing up in a lot of different places. That makes my heart glad. We'll see how it actually ranks out if it's in a bigger miscategory or if it's in a top three. But speaking of which, we should probably jump onto that. Sure.

[01:05:30] Why don't we lead off with your third most favorite television show of 2023? That would be Loki. Yes, it was a delightful surprise. I wasn't expecting it to be as marvelous as it was. Uh-huh. The first season drew me in because in the first two episodes,

[01:05:53] suddenly Loki, who we are so accustomed to seeing full of power, authority, grandiosity, ego, etc., is utterly powerless. He cannot do anything. He is completely and I'm like, okay, this is interesting. Who are these people? How can they possibly override Loki? What's going on here?

[01:06:13] I want to know more. That was what really drew me in. Having an ashtray full of infinity stones. That was pretty funny. What a perfect metaphor for we have power over you and you can't do anything about it.

[01:06:26] Everything you thought that was important is not really that important. All of a sudden, poof. Yeah, right. Exactly. I'm not a big fan of the whole multiverse, multiple timeline kind of stuff. That pulled it down for me. I think sometimes the first season in particular,

[01:06:42] there was a lot of stuff in the middle that it just seemed to go on too long for me. Right. And I think that was largely due to the fact that I didn't know the comics.

[01:06:51] And so, when I started to hear Jean talking about them, I thought, okay, this is great. This is really helpful because now I understand the connections. I understand why there is an alligator Loki. Right. Right, exactly.

[01:07:05] And the fact that I didn't have to listen to a podcast, I wanted to listen to the podcast. But the fact that I needed them in order to understand what was going on, that kind of dumped it down for me a little bit too. Got it.

[01:07:17] I shouldn't have to listen to two podcasts or read two books or whatever to understand what's going on here, at least in my opinion. Mushy middle first season. But the second season, again, they gave me the same stuff multiple times.

[01:07:31] So, we've watched Loki slip in and out of time five or six times. Right. Three would have done, right? At least to me. It was fabulously done, well constructed. It was wonderfully conceived and all of that.

[01:07:47] So, all right, I guess give the creators their due and let them have fun and show what they can do. The spaghettification in different places was very elegantly done. It was. That was one of my favorite effects they did. It was very cool. Yeah, yeah.

[01:08:02] And the character developments, the different people going in different directions and all that sort of thing drew me in. But overwhelmingly, it was Loki's arc. Yeah. Watching him go from somebody who stood in a square in Germany and ordered everybody to kneel

[01:08:18] to him to somebody who gave himself over. Right. To the tending and care of others. And the use of Yggdrasil was spectacularly beautiful and very moving. Yeah. And the character arc was really sublimely done. It was.

[01:08:38] It really brought us around and I was not at all expecting where we landed. I know, John, you just finished up the season as well. Yeah, I just watched it like a week ago, a week before recording. So, I really liked it.

[01:08:48] I mean, I didn't expect it to place on my top 10, but it's on there. I won't tell David where it is. No, that's a secret. Right, because while we're recording these ahead of writing the second breakfast and

[01:09:00] the data analytics, we're going to be slipping these segments with all the history in between our rankings. Oh, fun. Yeah. And I think I remember somebody at the podcast at some point saying something to the effect of,

[01:09:16] oh, well, if they make him into a good god at the end, I suppose I'll go. But this questioning the actual arc that happened, but the way it happened was so beautifully crafted and conceived that I think whoever that was, I think was quite satisfied in the end.

[01:09:35] Right. I think no matter how far you get from the original, it really depends on how you got there. You could sell me on almost any character change as long as you do it well and you give it enough space.

[01:09:49] And I think that they gave it enough space here. Yes, they did. Especially because you had, what was it? Centuries later. So he's had time to think about all this. Yeah, that was a little jazz hands maybe, but still. I thought it was funny. I enjoyed it.

[01:10:03] Especially they set it up. It was within the rules of their world. I was fine with it. That's true. That's absolutely true. And only a god. And they kept making this point about Loki being a god and only a god could do that sort

[01:10:14] of centuries later time jumping. And you know what? I figured out three episodes earlier that only a god could do any of this. Right. And fun to see how initially Mobius asked Loki to and Loki said, oh no, I'm not doing this. Right.

[01:10:29] And so there again, more character development, more arc. Eventually he comes to the realization, I have to do this. Right. And I am willing to do it. Yes. And that was the key. That was earned. That was earned. That was earned. Great. Good pick. All right.

[01:10:45] What's your number two? Number two is Mrs. Davis. How could I not? Very cool. Just extraordinary. Unlike any television series I've ever seen, and granted, I don't watch as much as other people do, but fabulously wacky, wonderful, deeply moving, touching on themes that are

[01:11:07] really dear to my heart. It helped that I could understand them at a very deep, almost experiential level. And just the directions they went, very simple in terms of production and sets and all this kind of stuff.

[01:11:25] That was clearly the lower end because it was very much about ideas. And the questions that we talked about in the pod that we did, who do you put your faith in? Oh, I can't remember them all now. I should have made better notes.

[01:11:40] But yeah, unlike anything I've ever seen, I was so disappointed. It just didn't seem to get the attention of the critics that much. Although it did get honorable mention on the New York Times Best TV Shows of 2023. So I was pleased to see it there. Yeah.

[01:11:55] When we covered this, Marilyn, I mean, I was enamored with this show, but I was thinking actually of David's ranking as we were covering it because I was like, he loves his industry score. What does it do for the industry? Sure. That's like this show.

[01:12:10] I think pushes boundaries more than any show I've seen. I agree. I agree. I agree. And bringing in so many ancient concepts and tropes, you were talking about the Eleusinian mysteries and then the bro cave and the Excalibur. Yeah. It's got everything.

[01:12:33] It's a show about everything and nothing and it's great. Sounds like it's a perfect Lorehound show. It really is. We should have done it, but we didn't know. We thought it was going to be great going in. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I tried. I tried. I tried.

[01:12:49] I was still new to you guys, so that's okay. Cool. Good. All right. And here we go. And your number one pick for 2023. Foundation. Wow. Very cool. Absolutely phenomenal. You want to see two flip sides of the same coin, the production values, the sets, the

[01:13:11] special effects, whatever the other term is for we don't have any jazz hands going on here. The effects are what they are. Right, right. Practical. Practical. I knew it was practical effects. The music, of course, Bear McCreary.

[01:13:26] But I loved the way they took Asimov's original conception and expanded on it. The cloning of the Cleons was brilliant. Has been a really great device. Absolutely fantastic way of covering hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years of history. His major points were all present.

[01:13:48] They were somewhat muted sometimes. I wish they could have made more of the line about violence is the last resort of the incompetent and things like that. I didn't mind the gender switching and who cares about that sort of thing, right? Tell a story.

[01:14:04] Unless there is a story based reason for that. Right, right. And then make it clear. Acting was superb. Lee Pace. Lee Pace. This is the one who was Thranduil? Although, interestingly enough, I didn't really like Thranduil all that much. He was kind of a jerk.

[01:14:22] He really was and a little slimy almost. But you could see the regality of him. And those were the seeds which we saw flourish and blossom into flower in this series where he just tore up the scenery and shoot it to pieces and spat it out again.

[01:14:40] Yeah, he's such a highlight. He really was phenomenal. The changes of things like having two Harrys and having the vaults and they worked. They really worked. And you know me, I'm usually pretty stern with book to visual adaptations. Right, on the Shippey test.

[01:15:03] If they're tearing up the lore, the Shippey test, exactly. Yeah. Wait, and who is it, John? I keep always forgetting. Is it Sanderson or is it Rafe Judkin? Who is it that the inspiration adaptation? Brandon Sanderson. It was Sanderson. Okay, yeah.

[01:15:15] So, we've got the Shippey test, we've got the Sanderson test, and then John just minted the Pequila test. I'm so honored. Which is the violence more or less than the Rings of Power season. During which I do shut my eyes sometimes, so.

[01:15:30] Well, but that's your, I consider that your max. Yeah. Okay, all right. Rings of Power is your max. Gotcha, gotcha. I was watching Far Gone, I was like, Marilyn would hate this. Yeah, I got that impression. Which is too bad because Minnesota.

[01:15:44] Oh, it's a great show and it's got a lot of- You'd love the plot. Yeah, you would really love the plot. But there is a lot of violence. If we do a Pequila cut, we could take those bits out.

[01:15:55] Just get Noah Hawley and say, listen, we've got Marilyn Arbukula here. That's right. You got to do a cut just for her. Well, my parents were born and raised there, so lots of connections. Yeah, you'd vibe a lot. You would like it. It's all about Minnesota nice.

[01:16:08] That's the concept he's breaking down. In this season. Yeah. From the outside, that's what it looks like. But if you know anything about the inside, it's a little bit like in Quakers. They have this saying that they say, I have a concern in the course of something that's

[01:16:25] being proposed for business and what they mean is over my dead body. Right. That's exactly what he's doing in this season is he's saying, well, if you took off, if you scraped off the superficial niceness on top, what's underneath? What do you see underneath there? Sure.

[01:16:41] It's one of many things that he's playing with, but he's definitely playing with that. Well, it will just have to pass me by, I'm afraid. Yeah. That's all right. At least more times for things like foundations. You can always listen to the pod.

[01:16:51] We don't hurt each other on the pod. Yeah. Well, actually, I've done that with one or two shows that I know I'm never going to watch, but I'd be curious to know what they were about and what you guys thought about.

[01:17:00] I actually think you would really like our pod on that because we did a lot of patriarchy things. Yeah, exactly. Not that we were enforcing the patriarchy that we were discussing. No, no, no, no. I heard the subtext of what you're saying there. Yeah.

[01:17:13] In fact, we do a sort of more analysis of the story as opposed to the scene by scene plot by plot point by plot point. We talk in a much more meta way. Right. All right. Well, that's a really good little list.

[01:17:25] And your bonus questions, what was your quote unquote guilty pleasure? Something that you would watch but not ever put on a ranking. It is quite appropriately the librarians. Oh, okay. I don't even know if anybody knows. No, I don't know. I'm not familiar with the title.

[01:17:43] You've pitched it, but that's all I know about it. I talked about it some. It's uneven. Okay. But in its early inception, I mean, King Arthur, the first season was pretty much all about King Arthur and the concept of a library.

[01:18:00] And of course, it just warms the cockles of my librarians heart when the characters who are workers in this magic library who are protecting the world from magical artifacts being misused or destroyed or abused, whatever. And there's some kind of wacky situation going on.

[01:18:16] And they have doors that open from where their headquarters is to wherever it is they need to go. And they step through and they walk down the street where the chaos is going on. And they look for the authorities and say, hi, we're here to help.

[01:18:28] And they'll say, who are you? And they'll say, well, we're the librarians. Is one of them an orangutan? No, no different universe, John. I'm doing a Discworld reference, David. Oh, okay. Got it. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[01:18:40] It sounds like a good Dungeons and Dragons setup for a game as well. To some degree. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's purely comedy. Sometimes there's a bit of horror elected. There's continuity between seasons a little bit, but it's mostly sort of a seasonal chunk of stories.

[01:18:59] If you know the sort of stuff, it's fun to kind of look, name the Easter eggs and guess about what might happen. And some good people in it. But yeah. All right. And what is your biggest miss for the year?

[01:19:15] My biggest miss is Wheel of Time because I have only just, I finished reading the first book and I haven't started watching the first season yet. And I just didn't have the time to push through one or the other.

[01:19:30] It sounds like it's better than it was in the first season from the little bits and pieces I'm hearing. So I can look forward to seeing it eventually. I think the Pukila test- Who knows when?

[01:19:41] We'll definitely check in because there's a couple of scenes that you should just skip, but I think overall, I think you'd be fine with most of it. Do you think it's worse than Rings of Power? I think it's about the same. There's one scene in particular that is-

[01:19:55] In season two. Okay. That season two, that shocked me very early on. That really shocked me. Otherwise, like a lot of the fighting later on, it's just like everybody was coming through fighting kind of stuff. It's pretty relaxed fantasy, shorts and sandals kind of stuff.

[01:20:14] I will say what I love that that show does compare to Game of Thrones is the violence always means something. It's never just senseless. It's never just out of nowhere. It's always there for a reason. And I think Fargo does that too. It's just more gruesome. Yeah.

[01:20:28] And I think it's no surprise to anybody that I don't watch Game of Thrones. What I did was fun though. I did the final season every Monday. The New York Times would do a quick summary and review of what happened and responses and things.

[01:20:44] So I kind of feel like I saw the final season. Fair enough. Without actually having any images. But you suffered along with all of us. Without having any images, I had to scrape off the back of my eyeballs afterwards.

[01:20:54] Well, if you get around to watching season one or two of Wheel of Time, you've got Alicia and John here to clue you in of when to skip and where to be careful. Yeah. Alicia probably has the episodes memorized, so I'd ask her.

[01:21:07] Well, I did watch the first episode of season one. Honestly, that's probably the most violent the show ever is. Well, that's interesting because that was what said, no, I don't need this. It's the most over the top with the trollocs and all that kind of stuff.

[01:21:20] Otherwise, it's a lot of intrigue. Well, and the guy's wife getting killed. Yeah. And it didn't happen in the book. I don't think it ever gets to that level again. No. And even, yeah, just the one, there's one brief scene in season two that's shocking.

[01:21:33] And then otherwise it's pretty standard. Well, you can tell me how many minutes in that is whenever I get there. Yeah. Five years from now maybe. That's right. Okay. And what is your biggest, God, my brain just- Anticipated show. Thank you.

[01:21:50] My brain just sort of mushed out there. Too many holiday cookies. I know the feeling. The show you're most anticipating. Well, it might not surprise you to know that my most anticipated is the second season of Rings of Power. Oh, there we go.

[01:22:03] I am just hoping, I'm hoping that they will mend their three egregious laws. And I'm very curious. To see how well they, yeah, see what they've been up to. To see what's coming next.

[01:22:17] What are they going to do with the things that they have already done for better and for worse? And of course I have a personal reason for wanting to see it as you guys both know. Yeah. Given the major project that's coming along. Right, right.

[01:22:30] Which technically speaking, we're about to record something for that. So- Right. Stay tuned. We're going to have an announcement shortly. That's right. All 12 of you. Oh, stop. People in our reviews say that they love you. So just- Yeah, it's absolutely true. That's wonderful to hear. Thank you folks.

[01:22:48] Thank you listeners. Well, thank you for joining us on this fun journey. It's fun to have you as one of our quote unquote, Istari. And we look forward to a good 2024. It should be great. And I'm delighted to be along with you for the ride.

[01:23:08] Anna Claus, welcome to the Lorehounds. How are you doing? I'm good, thanks. How are you? We're good. Thanks for hopping in on this sort of last minute thing. I know this might've been a little bit of surprise, but you and I actually know each

[01:23:23] other personally along with our spouses and kids a little bit. And my wife mentioned that you had this sub stack where you write these takedowns of holiday rom-com things. And John, I don't know, John, how would you describe your relationship to the holiday rom-com genre?

[01:23:43] I have a set of five or six that are always just on at some point during the holidays with my wife. We like watching them and laughing at them and just kind of enjoying them for what they are. You know, they're silly, they're fun.

[01:23:58] They're not meant to be great movies. And we just have a good time. We decorate the tree and we watch Christmas Prince or whatever else we're going to watch. You've got a big sub stack full of takedowns of the holiday rom-com.

[01:24:11] How did you get around to doing that? I honestly have no idea. It's just something that happened. Yeah, I don't know. I watched one and I posted about it on Facebook and people thought it was funny.

[01:24:25] And so every time I watched one, I'd just post a silly little review on Facebook and somebody was like, you should turn these into a sub stack. So I did. And then it became this thing that I do every holiday season, kind of starting after Halloween.

[01:24:47] I'll just start watching Christmas rom-coms in droves so that I can snarkily review them. And I don't know why, I don't know how this became my thing, but it is now my thing. It's a Christmas miracle. It's a Christmas miracle. It's super fun though. What a delight.

[01:25:04] Does your spouse enjoy watching them as well or? Oh no, he doesn't watch them with me. No, he walks into the room, sees the red and green on the screen, rolls his eyes and walks out. That's an appropriate response, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:19] I'm surprised that's what I'm not doing, but I'm sitting there watching them under a fuzzy blanket. So how many have you done so far? Roughly. That's a good question. It's a lot. 25 maybe. Okay. Something like that.

[01:25:35] Do you kind of plan it or do you just dredge up whatever's there and then write two or three of these a season? Oh, no, I've only been doing it for a couple of years. Okay. Wow. So you've caught up. I've caught up. Yeah.

[01:25:49] Unfortunately, between Netflix and Hallmark and Lifetime, there are about 100 new Christmas rom-coms every season. Oh. So there's no way I can possibly watch them all. So I don't try, I just will go to one of those networks and pick one that looks like the thing

[01:26:11] that I want to watch in that moment. Okay. Not that there is even a huge amount of variety, they're all the same movie. So it's like if I want a small town in Vermont or if I want somebody who is royalty or if I want...

[01:26:25] That's actually kind of it. There's small towns and there's royalty. Can I ask you, when did Netflix become the epicenter of Christmas on streaming? I believe that it started with the Princess Switch, I want to say in 2016.

[01:26:48] I think that was their first like, oh, hey, people love these and we could make money and not really have to spend much money. And so they still don't do them in the volume that Hallmark and Lifetime do, but it's like a few more sneak in every year.

[01:27:07] Yeah. And what my favorite thing is about these Netflix movies is that they will force feed you as many Vanessa Hudgens as they can. So many Vanessa Hudgens. There's three within one movie. It's amazing. And then there's another one, the night one where

[01:27:26] she falls in love with a knight who time travels. And there's so many awful, awful, wonderful movies on this service. And so my wife and I will watch all of the Vanessa Hudgens movies because why not? Yeah, I actually did review the first two in that series.

[01:27:42] And the second one, I just wrote an imagined scene between the producers and the writers being like, well, what's better than Vanessa Hudgens playing two princesses? How about Vanessa Hudgens playing three princesses? Oh, it's so bad. It's so good though.

[01:28:01] The third one is equally as bad and has an amazing scene where Vanessa Hudgens has to do one of those like cartwheels through lasers. Yes. And it's just, it's everything Christmas is about. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't spend Christmas doing cartwheels through lasers? Exactly. Fabulous.

[01:28:20] So we usually pick for a movie for our Patreon subscribers and John and I go back and forth. I throw some, what we call old man movies at him, stuff from the 60s and 70s.

[01:28:31] And John will pick up things from the 90s and the 2000s and throw it back at me. And so for Christmas, we obviously have to do a Christmas themed one. So he picked three. Do you remember what your picks were, John?

[01:28:43] I could look it up on the website. It was the starters for all three of the major Vanessa Hudgens verse. It was- The integrated IP universe of Vanessa Hudgens. Yeah, the Hudgen verse. Although actually one of them doesn't have her.

[01:28:55] It's A Christmas Prince, which does not have her. Although it does connect later. This couple goes to the wedding of Vanessa Hudgens in another movie. Anyway, so Vanessa Hudgens is in The Princess Witch, which was the second one.

[01:29:11] And then the third one is the Lindsay Lohan movie that we're talking about tonight, Falling for Christmas. So normally we put a post up on our Patreon page and our subscribers can vote on it.

[01:29:21] And usually there's a fair bit of conversation and back and forth on our Discord and chats on the post. And we get 20, 30 people voting on it. And it's lively and it's kind of a fun thing.

[01:29:36] This got eight votes and it was a tie between The Princess Witch and Falling for Christmas. Wow. And I had to, I didn't have to, but I did. I went online and I got one of these spin the wheel kind of things where you can put

[01:29:53] in your own criteria. And I hit spin and I put a little gif of it on our Discord and it was Falling for Christmas. And I have to say, it is a truly awful movie. It sure is. But only by the standards of other regular movies.

[01:30:13] Right, that's true. By the standards of a Christmas rom-com, it's actually pretty good. Do you think? Okay. So let's start walking through it. So this was supposed to be like a Lindsay Lohan reboot? Yeah. This is a Lindsay Lohan vehicle. Uh-huh.

[01:30:28] This is, and Christmas rom-coms do this a lot. They'll sort of like go dredge up somebody you haven't thought about in a decade. A decade and give them a starring role because then people who had actors they loved a decade

[01:30:45] ago are like, oh yeah, I love that actor. What happened to them? I will totally watch this Christmas rom-com. So this was like sort of a reemergence into the spotlight for her. And it's just the whole movie is just Lindsay Lohan kind of floofing around being Lindsay Lohan.

[01:31:02] Like it is very much a vehicle for her. She is not a good actor. Well, I don't know if I'd say that though, because watch Mean Girls and that's a great movie. She's great in that. But- That was back in the day. That was quite a while ago.

[01:31:16] She hasn't acted in 20 years, right? Exactly. That's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, it is bad acting by normal movie standards. Right. Sorry, I'm judging it. We have to grade on a curve here. Okay. And on the Christmas rom-com curve, it's not so bad.

[01:31:37] So the setup for this movie, I guess is that she is the daughter of a guy who is a rich, who runs and owns a rich fancy lodge, which is next to the dumpy down at the heels, but

[01:31:53] full of heart lodge, ski lodge in some mythical, I don't know. Is this supposed to be in the Rocky Mountains or- It never says. Doesn't matter. Yeah. It's just ski lodgeville. And so this is an amnesia love story. So she gets proposed to by her influencer boyfriend.

[01:32:10] She falls down a cliff. Oh, I'm spoiling this thing. Yes. Yes, we are. So if you- The plot doesn't matter, folks. It doesn't matter. All right. She hits her head. She gets amnesia.

[01:32:20] She of course then falls in love with the warm and fuzzy guy who's running the lodge next door. Who, by the way, the movie will not let you forget has a dead wife. Just every three minutes reminds you, oh, my wife is dead.

[01:32:38] And just hits you over the head with it until you can't forget it. I mean, we could go on all day about the woman who always dies, strobe and how problematic that is in media generally, but that's a big one in Christmas nonsense movies, right? Oh yeah.

[01:32:52] No, there's almost always... Usually it's a widower. And usually he has what I call the same eight-year-old girl who's in every Christmas romcom. Oh, her curls went on for days in this movie. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:33:06] And she's always played by a different actress, but they always have the exact same personality and they're extremely positive and very well adjusted for somebody grieving their mother's death. And all they want is for dad to settle down with a new wife and live happily ever after.

[01:33:28] And this one has the mother-in-law as well who gives permission. Unusual. There's not always a mother-in-law, but in this case, yeah, grandma is very much around and they own the ski lodge, which is just funny because they're Latino and there are

[01:33:52] not a lot of Latino owned ski lodges in anywhere that I know of, but maybe South America. Right. But not in the United States. Not in the United States. That was an interesting choice. That was a brave choice for them. Right.

[01:34:07] And then there were some, the mayor and I think one of the Christmas Village vendors were African-American, which is trying to lend some credibility to... She kind of vouches for the main character who's blonde and tall and hunky and he's

[01:34:25] validated by these people of color for being such a good guy and having a warm heart and a generous spirit. Yes, which makes up for his total lack of personality. And the mother-in-law just going, won't you please sleep with my son-in-law? Just like the whole movie.

[01:34:44] It's a little creepy. It is creepy. She's very pushy about it. Yes. So one of the things I thought was really interesting was this is an amnesia love story, she gets bonked in the head, she doesn't know who she is.

[01:34:57] It takes a while for them to figure it out. And when then they do, of course, there's a big dramatic reveal, but it's also a wonderful life story as well because the lodge is failing and they have to get the community support to keep the lodge alive.

[01:35:17] And of course, Lindsay Lohan's amnesiatic character is the one who instigates the coming together of supporting this wonderful lodge that has been a part of so many people's lives. Yes, I have to admit, I have not seen It's a Wonderful Life or Miracle on 34th Street.

[01:35:35] I don't do classic Christmas movies. I only do recent, terrible made for TV Christmas rom-coms. Well, okay, this is It's a Wonderful Life minus all of the time trip or the fantasy tripping that George does, the sort of angel that takes him around to the different realities

[01:35:52] if he hadn't been around would have come to transpire. And so he can see the true effect of his life and how many people that he's affected. But the idea that at the end, everyone comes together to prop his business up because

[01:36:05] he's given them so much, it's now the community's turn to repay the favor to him. Which is not really how real estate works, but we'll let that slide. It's true. But it's also a Christmas magic movie, because there's a creepy old guy with a big white

[01:36:27] beard who twinkles his nose and something magical happens. Yep, that is the same creepy old guy who's in every Christmas rom-com. And that's another thing that you'll find a lot. There is often some guy who's like low key Santa Claus. Like, they never spell it out.

[01:36:45] You know, he's not he's not wearing like the Santa hat. He's not necessarily in a sleigh. But like there's always some old dude with a white beard wandering around, really kind of getting into people's personal business and nobody's like, hey, this is weird and uncomfortable.

[01:37:03] And maybe you're an identity thief there. You know, they're just like, yes, strange old man, let me tell you about my quest for love and the magic of Christmas. And he'll sort of like nod sagely and twinkle at them.

[01:37:16] And then like, sometimes there will be like a little sound effect, like some little, you know, bad movie sparkles and then low key Christmas magic happens. And it's shocking how often this happens in these movies. This guy is pretty, pretty everywhere. Okay. Nobody is scared.

[01:37:39] And this actor is really for this particular movie is very distinctive. He's huge and kind of, I don't know. He had a weird vibe to him. I don't know if I'd want him winking at me. And then he just gives a sleigh to Jake, Jake, the main character.

[01:37:56] He, you know, it's the big moment where he has to go chase down the love of his life and tell her how he really feels. And the horse Baltazar, what is that name? But they bring up a sleigh that is like this pristine, beautiful thing.

[01:38:14] And he charges across town, riding this thing to confront, you know, his, the love of his life that he's going to confess to her how he truly feels. It's important that it's a new sleigh because his previous sleigh was sort of breaking down. Right.

[01:38:31] There's a scene where he takes some of the few guests staying in his lodge on a sleigh ride. And like a part falls off right before they start. And I don't know if the people who wrote this understand that it's not like a car, you know?

[01:38:49] It's not like there's lots of little bits- Just a piece of wood. To make it go. So, you know, he gets this magical upgraded sleigh at the end so that he doesn't have to fix his old one.

[01:39:02] Yeah, the sleigh, there's, there are a lot of good like, chase scenes that aren't on in cars. In this movie. There's a lot of ski chasing. There's a snowmobile- There's a big ski chase scene at the very beginning where Jake is trying to impress the

[01:39:23] owner of the big fancy lodge so that he would get him, well, get some investment dollars into his failing lodge. When they do this like full on Warren Miller ski chase down the hill, it was, they threw a bunch of money at that.

[01:39:35] Yeah, and I think honestly, a lot of these chase scenes in this movie or the snowmobile scene where they're going quickly on a snowmobile through the woods, I think that's just them kind of flexing that they had a higher budget than most of these movies have. Yeah.

[01:39:49] Like, oh look, we can film motion outdoors. Because we got Lindsay Lohan, we got to spice it up a little bit. Yes. Is there always a chase scene where the two loves have to sort of realize that they're

[01:40:04] missing each other and then somehow rush into each other's arms? There is not. Sometimes, sometimes somebody has to get somewhere to confront the love. But again, like these are not high budget movies. So usually what happens is they just show up. They run to the airport, right? Yeah.

[01:40:26] Usually it's like she's gone to get on the plane to go to the city to take the high powered job and everybody's sad and he goes back to the Christmas tree factory and then she just sort of like appears there. Okay, right.

[01:40:43] Just cut scene and there they are. Yeah. So this sleigh really was a flex. This showing the race, which like he could have just taken a car. And gotten there faster. It's the mountains. Like yes, it's snowing. People have four wheel drive.

[01:41:00] But you know, what fun is that? One of the things I did notice was that in this one shot of the sleigh going with the horse, you could see the tracks from a previous take in the snow.

[01:41:13] So they didn't actually have the budget to fluff the snow back to like making it look like it was a, that it hadn't happened before. So there was no fluffer got cut from the budget. Exactly.

[01:41:24] I think Lindsay Lohan's budget was a little, she wanted a little too much cake. And so yeah. I actually one fun Hallmark rom-com fact that I know is that each budget, each film has a $50,000 budget for fake snow. $50,000 for fake snow. Yes.

[01:41:44] Of the $2 million that they spend to make the movie, 50,000 of it goes to fake snow and another 50 goes to like the writers. Wonder what they're doing for fake snow these days. I thought it was like torn plastic that when it stretches, it turns white.

[01:41:58] It's apparently like a mix of things. It's like plastic and paper and some goo and stuff. Depends on what kind of snow you want, I guess. I guess there's different mixtures. Well, it's always fluffy. They're not going to have wet, sad snow in a Happy Christmas movie.

[01:42:16] It's true. They're not going to have a wintery mix. I thought in this movie, the ending montage of the memories of them together was a really great way to buff out the total minutes of the movie just to fill in a good two or three- We love it.

[01:42:30] Filler minutes. And I just couldn't understand who the hell has a press conference on Christmas morning? Yeah, that's, I mean, people in Christmas rom-coms. And this is another thing that happens a lot in this world that doesn't happen

[01:42:49] in the regular world is you can draw a crowd on like a holiday that people traditionally spend with their families. You can get everybody to leave their Christmas tree and their coffee and come out to your Christmas festival or your fundraiser or your marriage proposal.

[01:43:09] People are going to show up for it. Amazing. That's a great point. I never thought about that. The Princess Switch, they have a baking competition on Christmas day that everyone's just got to go to. Yeah. You just can't miss it.

[01:43:22] There's this plot line in the Christmas Prince 3 where they're like, we have to sign our contract, our treaty before it expires on Christmas or we'll be at war. And it's just like there's so many dumb ideas regarding Christmas in these movies and I love it.

[01:43:41] A lot of travel is supposed to happen on Christmas. A lot of times, if the thing doesn't happen to keep her in the small town, she is going to hop a plane back to the big city on Christmas day.

[01:43:58] A lot of travel happening on this traditionally very homebound day. Yeah, like you're going to go accept your big corporate job on Christmas day. Are they open? Right. I feel like that's the one day they're probably not open.

[01:44:12] There's many high power corporate jobs where you might be working on New Year's Day or Eve or something. Fine. But Christmas day, I don't think they're open. Yeah, like the 7-Eleven is not open. Corporation Inc. is probably also not going to be open.

[01:44:27] Are all these movies pretty heteronormative? Not this one. George definitely has a different agenda going on here. No, there's a weird gay subplot right at the end of this one. I think it started earlier with the guy in the cabin in the woods. Yes.

[01:44:49] I totally thought that they were going to hook up. Oh. Ralph. Ralph. There was definitely tension there. Yeah. I mean, there was a kiss. Doesn't he grab Ralph's face and just plant a big one on him? But it's very much like,

[01:45:05] an ice save, you saved my life kiss, nodded, I want to slip you some tongue kiss. I didn't get that subtext at all, but now I'm rethinking everything. There's some scenes where he's in the cabin and when they're on their hike and things like

[01:45:18] that where it was, I really thought they were going to go for it. Huh. That that's where it was going to end up. But then to just take the personal assistant at the end, oh, you'll do. Come on, jump in the back of the Hummer. Yeah.

[01:45:31] I couldn't tell if he was poaching him or propositioning him. I think it was pretty clearly propositioned. I don't know, John, what did you read on that? Oh, I buy it. Yeah. I buy this chemistry. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:45:45] I mean, they probably had more chemistry than anyone else in the movie. I think you. Oh my God, he taught me how to do chores and so I'm in love with him. Also, I know this town well enough after two days to organize a whole meeting greet

[01:46:02] where everyone's going to shower this lodge with money. I mean, she handed out flyers. That's true. Everyone knows if you hand out a flyer, people take it with joy. And they listen to it. Yes, people love flyers. Fabulous.

[01:46:16] Anything else that we should think about when we are thinking about this movie? Any other interesting tidbits or under the scene? I think we may have covered all of the really good stuff. Okay. You know, there's a little dose of holiday magic. There's the third generation ski lodge.

[01:46:33] Oh, one fun tidbit is the Belmont, which is the very fancy hotel. And they kept showing the pool that was in the glassed in deck. That was a constant drone shot. Yes. So that and the little rundown ski lodge, the North Star Lodge that Jake runs,

[01:46:56] those are actually the same resort. Oh really? Yes. Physically. Yes, they're physically part of the same resort, which is the Goldiner Hirsch in Park City, Utah. Okay. And they have a very modern part, which is the hot tub part. And then they have a rustic Austrian in situation.

[01:47:21] So does it cost more to stay in the rustic Austrian inn? They didn't have prices on their website because I did go look. That's amazing. Yeah, I end up looking at a lot of tourism porn after watching these things.

[01:47:37] There was a good one that was shot at the Biltmore, which I was like, is this a real place? This is a real place. Oh, you can stay there. I lived near there. Asheville, North Carolina. Yeah. Yeah, which is beautiful.

[01:47:48] So I think a lot of times they get a location that is a hotel and then the hotel gets bragging rights that they were in the movie, which should bring people in. Yeah, in this case, the North Star and the Belmont are the same property,

[01:48:04] except for the exterior of the North Star Lodge, which was shot like 20 miles away at a different inn. Wow, so this was actually a big production. Yeah, yeah, they could afford two locations. That's amazing. Yeah. That's hilarious.

[01:48:18] Do you have any final recommendations for a couple of really top tier holiday rom-coms that tick a lot of the archetypes and tropes that we would find in this genre? There is a hilarious one called A Christmas Movie Christmas. Okay. That is itself a takedown of Christmas rom-coms.

[01:48:39] The concept is there's two sisters, they live in the city. One of them hates Christmas movies. One of them loves Christmas movies. They fall asleep on Christmas Eve, low key Christmas magic happens and they wake up in a Christmas movie.

[01:48:56] Oh, this sounds a little bit like the Rigadoon that was on Apple TV. Yes. There might've actually even been a musical number. That's another fun thing about these. A lot of them are like, they want to be a musical, but they can't afford a whole slate of original

[01:49:16] songs. So they have one or two original songs, one sort of little dance number where they step around each other. It's very cute. But yeah, if you want all this stuff that is also self-aware of all this stuff, I highly recommend A Christmas Movie Christmas. It's amazing.

[01:49:32] Anna Claus, thank you so very much for swinging by. This was a lot of fun to talk to you and hopefully we can talk to you more in the future around the next holidays. Where can people find you? How do they find the Substack?

[01:49:44] It is annaclaus.substack.com. That easy as it is. I think. I think. We'll put a link in the show notes for the episode. So. Oh my goodness. Yes, it is annaclaus with two N's. Perfect. All one word.substack.com.

[01:50:01] Yes, I know the URL of my own site. Well, I'm excited to check it out more and thank you so much for being with us. It's been a really fun time chatting with you about Lindsay Lohan getting bonked in

[01:50:13] the head and hope you can come back next year. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. This was so much fun. I love talking about Lindsay Lohan getting bonked in the head. It's my favorite. A great way to end our Christmas. All right, Anna, thanks very much.

[01:50:28] We'll talk to you soon. Okay. Take care.