Can a song be a hit when everyday people aren’t good enough to sing along? In this episode, we embarrass ourselves following along with Mariah Carey’s 1991 classic “Emotions.” Nichole goes deeper than she’s ever dreamed of about how we’re just meat puppets whose emotions are caused by a bunch of funny-sounding chemicals floating in our brains. Meanwhile, Mark is really into how Mariah goes higher than the heavens above. Also, our hosts have their monthly therapy session about imposter syndrome.
Other Music heard in this episode: Tim Storms - “Lonesome Road”, The Emotions - “Best of My Love”, Alessandro Moreschi - “Hostias et Preces”, Spandau Ballet - “True”, Tears for Fears - “Change”, HAIM - “The Steps”, Third Eye Blind - “Semi-Charmed Life”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
Nevermind the Music is part of The Lorehounds Network. Join the Nevermind the Music Discord channel by visiting thelorehounds.com
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00:00 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_04]: So is your being more cuddly than you are jealousy, or whatever, more a function of your body's generation of oxy, not oxycon, oxytonin versus oxytocin versus acetaminophenol.
00:28 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:29 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Mark.
00:30 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is never mind the music.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:34 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_04]: We are talking about Mariah Carey Emotions.
00:55 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
00:56 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It almost feels silly like going through the history and like talking through.
01:01 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_04]: She just has so many hits.
01:04 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: She's awesome.
01:04 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So so crazy.
01:05 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And in terms of the history and all the magic behind Mariah Carey, we're actually gonna, I'm gonna just tease.
01:12 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Toon in everybody next week.
01:15 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_04]: We have a conversation with someone who's worked closely with her and there's just so many fascinating things to talk about.
01:21 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
01:21 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Really looking forward to that.
01:23 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's also a lot of drama that says maybe more about our society and the music industry than anything else.
01:28 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And some of that stuff's been covered in other venues, but maybe we'll talk about more drama, but like where I carry.
01:33 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Where I carry and the music industry's sort of treatment of her and toxic relationships with other people in the music industry.
01:41 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a woman in this industry from what I understand that
01:45 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You're always kind of pitted against other women and like there's just not enough space for multiple women to exist in the same like category of musicians.
01:54 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that Mariah Carey does take up a lot of space because she's super duper talented.
01:58 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Her hair's really, really pretty.
02:01 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's a boss.
02:02 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's just it.
02:03 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And people get scared of strong powerful women.
02:05 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And Mariah Carey knows what she wants.
02:07 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And she just goes for it.
02:08 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe that wasn't always the case.
02:10 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm interested in learning more about her as a human.
02:13 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, tune in next week, everybody.
02:15 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_04]: But let's just how big is Mariah Carey?
02:18 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Can we just like talk data?
02:19 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then in here.
02:21 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so stats.
02:23 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Mariah Carey is the eleventh best selling artist of all time.
02:27 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Should make the top ten that's unbelievable.
02:28 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Super close.
02:30 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Two hundred and thirty six million records sold.
02:33 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you guess five people in the top ten?
02:35 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Could you choose?
02:36 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you accurately predict who five of the people who have bested her in terms of music sold?
02:41 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this female musicians or any bands or solo artists or just anyone?
02:46 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone, if we were just considering female musicians, she's definitely not the eleventh.
02:53 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: She would be highly.
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone, sure.
02:54 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone, what do you got?
02:55 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Give me five.
02:56 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Beatles Rolling Stones.
02:58 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, right, Ross.
03:00 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Metallica.
03:01 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: No, Jim.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_04]: No, Pearl Day.
03:03 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
03:04 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Pearl Day, I'm just out.
03:06 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_04]: You're a child of the nineties.
03:08 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Pearl Day is not more popular than mine.
03:10 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The Beatles.
03:11 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_04]: You got one.
03:12 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Elvis probably.
03:14 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Elvis.
03:15 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it an act in maybe?
03:17 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely not.
03:18 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Most of these are not surprising.
03:20 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think of them.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling very attacked right now.
03:23 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Feeling very put on the spot.
03:25 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to know the ten?
03:26 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:27 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Beatles.
03:28 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got that.
03:29 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Someone the listener has heard me really stressing out about a few weeks ago.
03:34 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael Jackson.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this you got one.
03:37 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:38 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Elton John.
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sure.
03:40 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Queen.
03:40 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_04]: That one's a little surprising.
03:42 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Queen feels a little bit like, like, like, you told me, Pearl Jam.
03:46 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, like, okay, like Pearl Jam's huge, Queen's huge.
03:49 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Madonna.
03:49 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:49 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.
03:51 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's Zeppelin.
03:53 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been on a Led Zeppelin kick lately.
03:55 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you're the reason, man.
03:56 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm the one.
03:59 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
04:00 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Rhianna is huge, but I don't think people realize how huge she is.
04:04 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about net worth because she's got like, like, like, she has a lot, her fenty her, like, makeup brand is huge.
04:13 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's, and that's just a lot of, like, voice over.
04:15 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a record.
04:16 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_04]: So because we're not talking the hip hop entrepreneurs and all that, we're not talking, like, you know, Elon Musk, Funk band, he probably started or whatever.
04:25 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_04]: with seventeen of his kids like I don't know like rich people who's that what's the guy that started the blues band who owns one of the New York the next or something it helped me out New Yorkers there's one of your guys I don't remember I can't off the top of my head one of one of the sions of one of the sports dynasty started abandoned sells out crowds because he's a famous rich guy
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Mark from the future here, almost had it.
04:45 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It is indeed the New York Knicks and it's the owner James Dolan.
04:48 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_04]: His band is JD in the straight shot.
04:51 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Go buy a ticket.
04:52 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_04]: He needs the money.
04:53 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure.
04:54 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I shouldn't joke though.
04:54 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they're awesome, but don't tell the Celtics fans around here.
04:57 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Who else?
04:58 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Will Smith?
04:59 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Will Smith.
04:59 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not Will Smith.
05:01 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_04]: King Floyd.
05:02 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
05:02 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_04]: And M&M.
05:03 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
05:04 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So a couple surprising ones.
05:05 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So dark side of the moon for a while there was the top selling album of all time.
05:09 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the only two females on that in the only female on the top ten is Riana.
05:13 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Madonna.
05:15 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So that would make Mariah Carey the third.
05:19 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And so, and if you take out the band, so like male solo artist, MJ, Elvis, El John, and Eminem, and then the bands, Beatles, Queen, Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd.
05:32 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of seven pieces.
05:34 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: You think that like the backstory boys are like new kids on the block?
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just think.
05:39 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Put them there.
05:40 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I just think some of those groups are too short-lived.
05:42 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably.
05:44 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Also, the era, right?
05:45 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, it could be BTS now, except that people aren't buying content in the same way.
05:52 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, streams don't count quite the same.
05:54 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, if we... I guess that's... If we ranked streams, I'm doubting that Led Zeppelin has as many streams as BTS or... Like, K-pop demon hunters.
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
06:05 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's the... Are you into that in the sauce?
06:07 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_04]: There was some of that in this house.
06:11 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Why edit it?
06:12 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I just won't be ever.
06:13 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not evergreen content.
06:14 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not evergreen content.
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not evergreen content.
06:16 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:17 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really good though.
06:17 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: The music's really good.
06:18 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_04]: More data.
06:20 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_04]: She has the second most number one singles of all time.
06:23 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Nineteen.
06:24 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Second.
06:25 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Second most number one.
06:27 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Nineteen number ones on the US.
06:29 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_04]: This this one.
06:30 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I know enough about charts to say this is the billboard hot one hundred.
06:33 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So in the United States, can you guys who else is in the top five?
06:37 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Who's number one?
06:38 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Top singles number one singles in.
06:42 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael Jackson.
06:43 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_04]: The Beatles.
06:44 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Michael Jackson is tied for number four with thirteen.
06:47 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_04]: The Beatles are number one with twenty.
06:50 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Number two, Mariah Carey with nineteen.
06:53 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Number three, Rihanna with fourteen number one hits.
06:57 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So Mariah Carey could, if she has one more number one hit, could outrank the Beatles.
07:02 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Or if people just, if she gets a stranger thing's moment with like run up that hill and some song of hers comes to number one in twenty twenty five because of or TikTok trends or something.
07:14 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the key question for our guest.
07:16 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the most underrated Mariah Carey song is?
07:19 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we can propel it.
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_04]: We could get it to number one and then get that bag.
07:25 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
07:25 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_04]: So number four.
07:27 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Number of, but she's got to have two more to put to win.
07:29 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Tie with the Beatles.
07:30 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Being tied with the Beatles is not enough.
07:32 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_04]: You have to be the Beatles.
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not enough.
07:34 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:34 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You would never.
07:35 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So, number four is Michael Jackson tied with Drake of all people.
07:39 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh.
07:39 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
07:39 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Shout out to Drake.
07:40 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_04]: He was, he was ruined by our podcast.
07:43 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
07:45 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Look, I do not think Michael Jackson's controversy and Drake's controversies are quite on the same level.
07:50 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've read the text.
07:52 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and Kendrick maybe has something else to say about that.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
07:55 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Kendrick let us know.
07:57 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Number five is a tie also Madonna the Supremes and Taylor Swift all with twelve number one.
08:06 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's a stacks number five or top five.
08:09 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet Taylor was in the end of her career will have the I mean she's got probably another at least another fifteen years short and in the she can climb up that rankings and and so could Ranna so could Drake
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's done with music.
08:23 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, she's just having babies and making lipsticks now.
08:25 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_04]: She come back to music.
08:26 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Lipsticks, yeah.
08:27 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're great.
08:28 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, I really great line.
08:31 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Ranut.
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not sponsored girl.
08:33 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
08:33 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not, not on a Sephora girl.
08:35 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
08:36 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_04]: One other thing, one other number associated with Mariah Carey that I wanted to mention before we get into the music, although this is kind of related to what I'm talking about today.
08:44 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_04]: She apparently has a five octave vocal range.
08:48 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I believe it.
08:49 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Five octaves, meaning like if C is one note, you go up to the next C that CD, E F G A B, that's an entire octave.
08:56 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_04]: She's got five of those, but that is not the world record.
09:01 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
09:02 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You know the world record is probably more than five.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually want to fight.
09:06 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_04]: the Guinness people because this world record I I question it because it's allegedly ten octaves unbelievable ten octaves and it's this guy Tim storms.
09:14 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I have heard of him years below.
09:16 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like a made up name.
09:19 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like a made up name.
09:21 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it is.
09:22 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_04]: This guy has crazy low voice and someone in years ago that sent me.
09:26 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, check out this.
09:26 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_04]: It's gospel singer and let me play it for you.
09:30 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_04]: But I have to question their methodology and the actual idea of
09:34 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Ten octaves.
09:35 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can sing a low sea in a super duper duper high sea, but can you like make it sound magical?
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it singing right?
09:43 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Well listen take a listen to our boy Tim storms your boy
10:13 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He sounds like a creep in a half.
10:15 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
10:17 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
10:18 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Because of his voice.
10:20 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_04]: What kind of newism did we just create here?
10:23 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to say that.
10:24 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me like actually uncomfortable.
10:26 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: This phone makes me uncomfortable.
10:28 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Systematic voiceism is one of the worst hills of society.
10:30 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Just because it's so, I mean, it's so slow.
10:34 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, the thing about the ten octaves, the piano is seven octaves.
10:38 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have the high.
10:39 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you have the high end of him?
10:41 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So I could not find videos of him singing hi.
10:44 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: How can mean the end?
10:44 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And so the thing is the thing that I quibble with on this is.
10:49 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Quibble with the Guinness people look Guinness book will record wasn't it started to settle barbets in.
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you're going to fear.
10:56 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I was that true.
10:59 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think is true.
11:00 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_04]: It's that it's that Guinness.
11:02 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Those Guinness people.
11:04 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
11:05 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not Alec Guinness, you know, either famous Guinnessies.
11:11 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Go on.
11:13 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Allegedly he can sing lower than the piano goes, right?
11:17 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And the lowest note in the piano that low A, A, zero is already barely perceptible as a pitch.
11:23 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if you bang that note, it just sounds like a fart kind of.
11:26 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I guess I question
11:28 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_04]: What is true pitch generation?
11:30 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I can go.
11:31 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:32 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't sound like singing.
11:33 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't sound like singing.
11:33 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's called vocal fry or strobos.
11:36 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And obviously my voice is not low like his.
11:37 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's like, can your voice box make the sound?
11:42 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
11:42 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Does that count as your vocal range?
11:44 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Whereas Mariah Carey has some low notes in some insane high notes that she's actually performing them.
11:49 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
11:50 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_04]: What he's saying alone some road.
11:51 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that is
11:53 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_04]: him singing and it's musically useful range, but the Guinness people are giving him like multiple octaves lower than that as counting.
12:01 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And I just think from a laws of physics perspective, maybe you're seeing the waves beat a certain way, but if that's like his his vocal cords scraping together rattling like crickets, I don't know that that really counts, but I'm not the expert on that stuff.
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, get us.
12:18 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm no, I'm no Obi-Wan.
12:19 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So, all right, so I wanted to take this idea of her crazy vocal range and actually talk about the musical use of it and songwriting and performance trick that's pretty don't affective in this song.
12:32 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And my side is pretty self-contained about the music, but like is there?
12:37 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to jump in with any psyche, Mariah Carey stuff aside from what we're going to say for our conversation next week or do you want to just wait to hear out something easy?
12:46 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I just all like foreshadow, like I think that the song, emotion that we're discussing today.
12:51 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you layer that on the concept of like her vast vocal range, I think you could make connections to how nuanced and widespread our human emotions are and how we can go from like zero to sixty in just a second.
13:06 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And this idea of like some people have a real like high arousal positive affect to them, like a
13:15 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And affect is your kind of general looking the vocabulary of your personality in terms of mood and emotion.
13:21 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And some people just have a high affect that are really like easily aroused and like hypersensitive and some people just don't.
13:28 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's a really interesting concept that I'd like to touch back on later and also when we think about love.
13:36 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: This song brings up a lot of love feelings.
13:39 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Our love can act as like a natural stimulant in several different ways.
13:43 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And the neurochemicals that are involved in that process are really interesting.
13:46 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'd like to talk about like a vasopress in an ox toast and specifically today, about the different types of love feelings that those neurotransmitters can invoke in us.
13:58 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even we might need to talk about what an neurotransmitter is.
14:01 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
14:01 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at your phrase right now.
14:02 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's start there.
14:03 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's start there.
14:04 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
14:04 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_04]: So this song, spoiler.
14:07 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking about how the extreme emotions all represented by extreme changes in not just a while her range is wide.
14:16 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_04]: The thing that makes this song crazy and some of her music does this as well as other great songs.
14:22 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_04]: is she's jumping between it with like an immediacy and it's clearly intentional, but it's striking, right?
14:30 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Massive leaps of multiple octaves in one note.
14:34 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So within one melody, right?
14:36 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So you're talking about chemicals, neurotransmitters, firing, causing that stuff.
14:41 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:43 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
14:43 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you want to unpack some of that now.
14:44 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I can just give you a quick primer on like what a neurotransmitter is if that's probably helpful.
14:50 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
14:50 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure some of this we've covered already.
14:52 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:52 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, talk to us about the emotions that the drugs and our system.
14:56 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have like I'm going to use like non clinical non science in terms just to explain it in a way that like everyone can understand.
15:03 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We have drugs that naturally occur in our bodies that make us feel certain ways.
15:06 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the drugs that someone might take recreationally is just playing into the neurotransmitters that are existing.
15:09 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know whatever is going on.
15:10 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:10 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:12 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:13 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:14 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:14 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:17 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:18 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:19 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:20 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:21 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:22 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:23 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even know what ever is going on.
15:23 --> 15:24 [UNKNOWN]: Don't even know what
15:24 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Certain drugs like MGMA might release all of our brain serotonin or dopamine to give us that feeling of happiness.
15:33 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people, when that serotonin's released, it's like a lock looking for keyhole to go into in your brain.
15:40 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: When the serotonin goes into that keyhole, it like unlocks the feeling of happiness.
15:45 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens sometimes?
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a lot of times, this is a serotonin like shoots across this snap of clef, right?
15:53 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_00]: To get into the keyhole.
15:55 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't left.
15:57 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This is called a synaptic cleft cleft.
15:59 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a gap between synapses.
16:01 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a microscopic.
16:02 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So sorry, my mind was blown because of the word cleft, right?
16:05 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It means yes, it does.
16:07 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It must be related.
16:08 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
16:09 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It must be related.
16:10 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Serotonin shoots across the synaptic cleft into
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: the keyhole, right?
16:16 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And unlocks happiness, right?
16:18 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of misses sometimes.
16:20 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_04]: The keyhole being a neuro, a neuron or something.
16:23 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_04]: A synapse or like a synapse, okay, yeah, on a neuron.
16:25 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it misses the keyhole and like goes off into the space of your brain, right?
16:30 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:30 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And what happens in people that have depression is it misses the keyhole a lot.
16:36 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So you never get the happiness that never connects.
16:38 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And the serotonin just kind of goes off into your brain.
16:41 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So you're getting your body is still generating the serotonin.
16:44 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just not being like effectively transmitted.
16:49 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And for everyone, like, it misses the mark a lot of times for a non-depressed human.
16:55 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But we have a process in our brain called re-uptake that those missing floating bits of serotonin kind of course correct.
17:03 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And they go back to the beginning of the process and they wait for their second chance.
17:07 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like a what a adaptive brain does.
17:10 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not connecting every time.
17:13 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of serotonin gets floated away and then you have a process called reuptake that brings it back to the beginning so it can try again totally average upcycling yeah it's like upcycling right so if you have depression
17:29 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You might take something called an SSRI, which is like a lexipro well-buchin or like any depression med.
17:37 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's called the selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor.
17:41 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And what that drug does in your brain is catches all that serotonin that floats off into space that isn't naturally going back to the beginning because your brain's broken from depression.
17:51 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a loaded way to say it.
17:52 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And that drug helps that serotonin go back to the beginning.
17:55 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so emotions in general, right?
17:58 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_04]: This one's about love, but emotions, you're telling me that there is a body drug, they're telling it, for example, that is associated with triggering the emotion of happiness and pleasure, maybe not pleasure, there might be a different one dopamine or whatever, right?
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It dopamine's like pleasure and reward.
18:13 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So there aren't chemicals triggering sadness.
18:18 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the absence of the happy chemicals.
18:21 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:22 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I assume, though, there are chemicals that trigger fear.
18:26 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yes.
18:26 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's not just the positive emotions that are associated if fear fears an emotion, right?
18:31 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Fear is just for an emotion, but that's for more triggered by your peripheral nervous system.
18:37 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:37 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's
18:39 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Not that the song is about fear.
18:40 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's good to contextualize it.
18:42 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have neurotransmitters in our brain, but we also have hormones in our body that are manufactured through our endocrine system.
18:50 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So your endocrine system is kind of starts with the pituitary gland, which is in the limbic system of your brain, right in the middle of your brain.
18:59 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
19:00 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the endocrine reactions for sake of this conversation, you could say, I regulate by your central and peripheral nervous system, how you sense the world around you.
19:11 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And that system is sending signals up into your brain to release certain hormones, to release certain neurotransmitters.
19:20 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's releasing cortisol, which is a hormone that makes you feel
19:25 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: stressed out.
19:26 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, when you're walking down the street and a dog barks at you and you kind of like jump for a minute, you get like your heartbeat's fast, right?
19:34 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a cortisol reaction because your body's saying you're in danger now.
19:38 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to look alive and react.
19:40 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's another emotion or state of being whatever that is triggered by a neurotransmitter.
19:46 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And a hormone in that case, but I'm sorry.
19:50 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They usually work together.
19:51 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
19:51 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:52 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So
19:53 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Love.
19:54 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:54 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get away from fear.
19:55 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We can talk with that.
20:00 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:00 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Love is usually mapped back to two major neurotransmitters.
20:06 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: One is oxytocin and the other's vasopressin.
20:10 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you familiar with any of those words of you heard them before?
20:14 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I've heard that we may have even mentioned them in passing.
20:19 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They say oxytocin is like the cuddle drug or any primary caregiver.
20:28 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: If there's not a biological mother, the primary caregiver is going to release a lot more oxytocin.
20:34 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you get with skin to skin contact when you feel like get a nice hug from someone that like warm fuzzy feeling you get.
20:40 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a love during it generates oxytocin.
20:43 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
20:44 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We see it a lot in a lot of the kinship relationships and that is definitely one flavor of love.
20:51 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you have to think like there are plenty of people that when they experience love it feels more fiery and for it feels more like passionate, possessive in a way.
21:02 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like cuddly, but it still feels like love, right?
21:06 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:07 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not oxytocin.
21:09 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's vasopressin.
21:11 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So vasopressin is that love chemical that's triggered.
21:13 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you see your girlfriend flirting with another boy to bar and you want to go like the row punches, right?
21:21 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_00]: like the jealousy, like the jealousy or like the mama bear feeling.
21:25 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I love to cuddle with my kid.
21:27 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If I see another kid picking on her, I want a sorry listeners.
21:32 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking to punch that kid in the face.
21:33 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like stay away from my kid.
21:35 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: That feeling, which I'll have to say.
21:37 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not allowed anywhere near a school.
21:39 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I never felt
21:45 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_00]: that feeling of rage that like love-based rage before until I had a kid.
21:50 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm just not how I'm wired, but something about the mom of everything.
21:54 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a mom of everything and it's real and I never understood it until I felt it.
21:58 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't have that.
22:00 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But then I talked to some of my students.
22:02 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And they say, especially now, I think more than ever, they say, yeah, we don't want a cuddle, but I'll throw a punch if you look at my boyfriend the wrong way.
22:10 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is really interesting.
22:11 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can definitely just use as a guide to someone's personality.
22:15 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you wouldn't, if you didn't know me, after ten minutes, just having a conversation, you would know that I'm not someone that's a jealous person.
22:23 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not someone that's going to throw a punch if you're looking at my husband the wrong way.
22:28 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't care.
22:29 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And some people really, really care.
22:31 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've always wondered, like, what's the difference?
22:34 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm definitely more oxytocin driven.
22:36 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely am a hugger, more than a fighter.
22:40 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I just am.
22:41 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's all this idea of being rooted in love and it comes back to many things that comes back to the way you
22:48 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: raised and the environment grew up in, but when we boil us all down, we are just sorry folks like meet puppets with the bunch of chemicals bouncing around and our neurotransmitters really do run the show along with our endocrine system when we talk about ranges of emotion.
23:04 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So is your being more cuddly than you are jealousy, or whatever, more a function of your body's generation of oxy, not oxycon, oxytonin versus oxytocin versus
23:20 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_04]: acetaminopheno.
23:21 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're too close to it.
23:22 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
23:50 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_00]: nerds.
23:50 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Which one's going in for sure?
23:51 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:52 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really fascinating.
23:53 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had something that I don't know enough about.
23:57 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so complicated to me.
23:59 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I know like the basics and I've just delivered that to you.
24:02 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But the level that we know about like areas of our brain that are reacting to certain stimulants, it gets so in the weeds.
24:11 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Like people, we know a lot.
24:13 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't personally, but someone out there does.
24:16 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe we need to come back to the Dunning crew, or effects on another podcast, isn't this the Dunning crew group?
24:20 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't known what this.
24:22 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll edit this out if I'm wrong.
24:23 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_04]: The Dunning crew, you are like, I don't know much about this thing, whereas I'm like, wow, she knows a lot about this thing.
24:29 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's the Dunning crew group effect, I think, is the name for the fallacy where
24:34 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_04]: the less you know about a thing, the more you think you know about it.
24:37 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_04]: We're like, I might go on an internet message board and like wielding all my neuroscience knowledge going, oh my god, look, oh, how stupid are you?
24:45 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know about this because I don't know what I don't know.
24:48 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Whereas because you're a trained psychologist, you realize, oh man, a neuroscientist.
24:53 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Whereas like with me like, compared to most of the listeners, like,
24:56 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I know a lot about music history, but if you ask me, I'm like, man, I'm not a musicologist.
25:01 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know anything about that stuff.
25:02 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_04]: The more trained you are in a field, the more you realize how little you know in that field or in related fields.
25:07 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you're not a neuroscientist.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a neuroscientist.
25:09 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm if at best, I develop myself.
25:11 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great.
25:12 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a great flaw of you that we love.
25:15 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that's like kind of walking alongside imposter syndrome.
25:20 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, sure.
25:21 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
25:21 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This idea that like,
25:23 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny when I explain things to you and you're like, your face is like, in awe.
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh my, do I know what I'm talking about?
25:32 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Like is it true?
25:32 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I smart about science stuff?
25:35 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
25:35 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm just kind of not making enough as I go.
25:39 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the right word.
25:40 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think a good teacher has a healthy amount of imposter syndrome.
25:44 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Totally.
25:45 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes an unhealthy amount.
25:47 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just better.
25:48 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a brother.
25:49 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm an older brother and I'm really sure he doesn't listen to this and I think he knows that I know that and that's going to make him forever.
25:55 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Not listen to it.
25:56 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to just talk about him.
25:57 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_04]: He's a scientist.
25:59 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they're sisters of scientists.
26:00 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, older siblings are weird.
26:03 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Does that mean a hundred percent of people's older siblings are signed?
26:07 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I think my brother does not have imposter syndrome because my brother is trained in a very specific type of science and he practices that I'm sure at a very high level.
26:15 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_04]: But if you ask my brother, like a random science question, he will know the answer, but I don't think I think he knows the answer kind of, but
26:25 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't have the, oh my god, well, I don't really know about geology.
26:29 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I better not answer this.
26:29 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_04]: No, he'll just answer.
26:30 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I, I'm like, oh, thanks, brother.
26:32 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I realized, we did make half of that up.
26:35 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, does he really know?
26:36 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Because he didn't study that in college.
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_04]: He didn't study that as a PhD.
26:40 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's funny.
26:41 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think performers have musicians have a healthy amount of ego mixed with self-doubt.
26:49 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have it.
26:50 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't have a big ego.
26:52 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I notice in teaching,
26:55 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually really nice to say to students, like, hey, I don't know the answer, but I'm going to look, I'm going to figure it out.
27:02 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And next class, I'll come to you with the answer to your question, but I'm not just going to bullshit something.
27:06 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like a lot of teachers do just bullshit it, like your break brother.
27:10 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I think my big brother probably would, but he's probably right most of the time, so it's fine.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe not.
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: How would you know?
27:16 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not fact checking.
27:17 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_04]: endless.
27:18 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_04]: In my field, I have the endless challenge of someone's always going to bring up something that I haven't heard.
27:23 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:24 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like, what happens in that one, death tones album is like, I haven't heard that death tones album ever.
27:29 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, imagine, like, thank goodness, right?
27:31 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, wouldn't life be awful if you knew everything already?
27:34 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's the point?
27:35 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand when people like, oh, and then people that think that they know everything.
27:38 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, how boring is that?
27:40 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's so interesting to learn new things.
27:42 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, not to get way off topic.
27:43 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
27:47 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_04]: But like when I got to grad school there was so much of that my fraud complex I didn't know anything yet obviously I was to all I done is undergrad spoiler you don't learn that much on undergrad even if you're a music major didn't know you learn so much please
28:02 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You learn about learning.
28:03 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: You learn how to learn.
28:04 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, learn about it.
28:05 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like people were like all the time.
28:08 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, this is like in the Brahms concerto, whatever, and I would just be like looking around the room.
28:14 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
28:15 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody knew everything.
28:17 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody's referring to.
28:19 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's only like later that I realized, no, like, half those people didn't, and we're just kind of going, oh, yeah, just like me, right?
28:25 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And we all know a lot of stuff, but the overlap of what we all know is not perfect, right?
28:31 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So even if we all have, like, I bring to the table a bunch of music that none of them know and vice versa.
28:36 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And as a teacher of college students, I try to remember what that's like because my professors, when I was a graduate student,
28:43 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_04]: There's like this healthy mix where they were saying, making references to things that on the one hand could be taken as a sign of respect that they trusted me enough to know that.
28:55 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_04]: But also was like a weird, agro move telling me you better know this if you don't know it.
29:01 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's like a weird, like I have to be careful when I'm bringing up the canon.
29:04 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if I'm bringing up some piece that I assume, whether it's classical music or pop song, like
29:10 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Am I bringing them in by assuming they all know it and saying you're a part of the tribe of musicians?
29:15 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, we all know Bohemian rap city or Beethoven's fifth symphony.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But you could be more like just listening them.
29:20 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
29:21 --> 29:24 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a weird balance that like the fraud complex.
29:25 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_04]: If you're a music major is firing on all cylinders because you're only into hip hop and the guy next to you is only into hardcore punk and you're like afraid that you're less cool because you don't know the hardcore punk band he's talking about and then he's thinking the same thing and like everybody's
29:40 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_04]: fear of me because my music is as the professor is simultaneously on the most lame of all of them, but yet I have the keys to the kingdom.
29:48 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm the cool one too.
29:49 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's weird.
29:49 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what else is firing in all cylinder cylinders?
29:53 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Is your dopaminergic reward pathway?
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm talking about this stuff.
29:57 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: A little psych humor.
29:58 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:59 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Just trying to bring it back.
30:01 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But your dopaminergic reward pathway is like a dopamine is a really awesome neurotransmitter that makes us feel rewarded.
30:07 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like every time you
30:09 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: learn new knowledge and you feel good about yourself for like raising your hand and getting the right answer.
30:13 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And your teacher says, yes, Mark, you're smart.
30:15 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, yes, you get that zip.
30:17 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I am smart.
30:18 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I am doing it.
30:19 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like your dopamine.
30:20 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So even this stuff is hormones and neurotransmitter.
30:23 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, everything.
30:24 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything is.
30:25 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And literally this song is really just one dimension, but it's interestingly two reflections of that extreme, I think.
30:32 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And we can come back to that.
30:48 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Should we talk about marijuana more?
30:49 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to talk about the song specifically.
30:51 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, where are you at with that?
30:52 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me, okay, emotions.
30:53 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a great episodic memory of the song.
30:57 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Episodes memory shout out to episode one and two Taylor Swift.
31:01 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What an episodic memory is.
31:02 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_04]: An episodic memory is when you watch an episode on Netflix.
31:06 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And you remember it, but to the point, you experienced something and so you remember it as opposed to a semantic memory, which is a fact.
31:14 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice one.
31:15 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I got it.
31:15 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You did.
31:16 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's great.
31:17 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I love your Netflix analogy because that's how you remember.
31:19 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like an episode of your life.
31:21 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So back when I was growing up, we used to have to make, we would make mix tapes like playlists as the kids would call them nowadays.
31:30 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But we would have to record songs from the radio with a cassette tape, like you'd press play and record at the same time.
31:35 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And so you either got the last three seconds of the previous song or more likely you're missing the first.
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Because like when it comes on the radio, you record it.
31:42 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
31:42 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I put the song on a mixed tape and I remember very specifically like waiting trying to like catch it.
31:49 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_04]: So the song again everybody emotions.
32:09 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that reference to higher than the heavens above.
32:12 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:13 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Word painting.
32:14 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_04]: We could write because she says, deeper than I've ever dreamed of, I think.
32:18 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And then higher than the heavens and the deeper line is really low.
32:20 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:21 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Higher than line is really high.
32:22 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's an example of something that goes back to the Renaissance, or even earlier.
32:26 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you write this song?
32:27 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you write it?
32:28 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Larissa.
32:29 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
32:30 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_04]: written by I don't I don't know the lyrics versus music spread, but it's written by her.
32:35 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Plus the guys from CNC music factory, David Cole and Robert civils.
32:40 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure I had a pronounce it, but you know, the gun to make you sweat everybody dance on the mixed tape.
32:45 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Also, yeah, I mean, so it's the same thing.
32:47 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So were you a fan of Mariah fan?
32:49 --> 32:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was.
32:50 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this song was everywhere.
32:52 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:52 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Number one hit, obviously.
32:54 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_04]: This, I don't think is one of her biggest number ones, though.
32:57 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it has to be.
32:58 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_04]: One sweet day with boys to men.
33:00 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet you, that was so good.
33:01 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know where boys to men fans here.
33:03 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:04 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of Christmas stuff is higher.
33:06 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I, this wasn't really, like I never had a Mariah carry album.
33:11 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_04]: But it felt like you heard her music so much that you know so many songs, but this one's by the way, nineteen ninety one.
33:19 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_04]: That album that's on emotions collaborated with a lot of people on it.
33:23 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So like including Carol King as well as scene music factory guys.
33:27 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you see that there was a out of court settlement about this song?
33:31 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, tell me everything.
33:32 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I love the guys from the wind and fire.
33:35 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Maurice White and Al Davis to the members didn't sue but settled at a court about this being an adaptation of their song Best of My Love which play the clip not Earthling and fire song Best of My Love weird synergy performed by the emotions Okay, and it's really just the backing instrumentation sounds similar
34:08 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Should I play emotions again?
34:27 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
34:28 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: A year ago, I would have said, yeah, that's a total rip off.
34:32 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But now I've learned so much in this podcasting process.
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, where does it end?
34:36 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's different enough.
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's different enough.
34:39 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's fine.
34:41 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And you send a lot of court.
34:42 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It just screams like leave me alone.
34:45 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It probably wouldn't have worked in court.
34:47 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's no way because like music is music is music is music is music is music.
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can do whatever you want with it.
34:54 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's so many combinations.
34:55 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Listeners and Nicole.
34:57 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're gonna talk about plagiarism later in this season.
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been staying that for years.
35:03 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_04]: This is your two and it will happen probably because I want to unpack this more because the the courts get it wrong sometimes and this is a vibiness that's very similar and there's some figures of the groove in the the baseline, but I don't think it's not exactly five is a thing.
35:22 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Talk to Ferrell and Robin thick about that will come back to that with Marvin Gaye later.
35:27 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll probably
35:28 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's probably another problem.
35:31 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm not rallying to his defense, but but the courts maybe got around there.
35:35 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyways videos.
35:37 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, here's the thing that that people really were.
35:40 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, the video.
35:41 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.
35:41 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, what are we doing?
35:43 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So this I would say this is the most or one of the most memorable parts of the song.
35:49 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not just the hook.
35:50 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_04]: It's this.
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
35:58 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait.
36:11 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
36:12 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Can she do it live?
36:13 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is she doing it live?
36:14 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We're using a Larry track, which is for sure something I just made up.
36:19 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_04]: You talked about that already before, and it was something I'd never heard of.
36:22 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Larry, I think it's been to save your voice.
36:24 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_04]: So I actually watched some live videos of her.
36:29 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:29 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a whole thing about her on New Year's Eve one day that there's like controversy and all that.
36:33 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't even want to get into that.
36:35 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_04]: They were feuding with.
36:36 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_04]: It was bad.
36:36 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It was bad.
36:37 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_04]: There's people because they're all with her fault, et cetera.
36:39 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_00]: No way in on that at all.
36:41 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_04]: But she does the high note live always.
36:45 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, spectacularly, but the button up button.
36:51 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_04]: She often doesn't do and I wonder if that's what's so hard.
36:55 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the breath control.
36:57 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the updating to the note.
36:58 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_04]: She can hit the note live consistently, but there might be a five percent chance that something goes wrong if she does the full run.
37:06 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Then in all the live videos I saw and people listeners write in will ask our guest next week.
37:12 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Does she ever do the full thing?
37:14 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just one of those things like you make choices in the studio and then when it comes time to learn like with me even and I'm no more I carry to say the least.
37:24 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_04]: There are choices I'm making about my guitar part or my vocal line while I'm doing the same, them at the same time that what I did in the studio is not gonna exactly happen.
37:33 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I have to make accommodations because I still have to sing thirty more minutes of that.
37:37 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, there's so many variables in live performance.
37:39 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So you just want to give the people what they want and they want that high note.
37:43 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So I would just say, yeah, she can do it live, but doesn't do it the same live.
37:48 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_04]: She does the high note, but
37:50 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Which I think must be harder and some capacity because you're not like scaffolding up to it.
37:54 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just like gearing the note and hitting it.
37:57 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't having perfect pitch, but it was like you used another word that I forget.
38:03 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
38:04 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You hear it in your head.
38:05 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Audiation.
38:06 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Audiation.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good.
38:07 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew it was there somewhere.
38:09 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_04]: She's hearing it.
38:10 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I think so I think it's a mechanical thing.
38:12 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I think so this is this is what we're getting into today.
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is what's called her whistle register.
38:16 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually don't want to talk about different registers of voice as much because I want to come back to that listeners inspired another episode that I want to come back to a little later in the season.
38:27 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: See, boat yodeling?
38:29 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_04]: OK, so yodeling, what you're doing is is the switch between registers rapidly in a way, kind of, or I like, where I can't yodel, but basically you're going your sort of middle voice or chest voice up to your falsetto.
38:42 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Flipping between them really fast.
38:43 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't.
38:44 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
38:44 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Listeners, I can't do it.
38:45 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Should I go back to the pitch correct it to make it sound beautiful?
38:49 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And then they're like, why is she making fun of them?
38:51 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds beautiful.
38:51 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was ready for it.
38:53 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a sarcastic tone.
38:54 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So she.
38:59 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_04]: That what I've learned I've done a lot of vocal writing like whether it's pop songs or when I write so to speak classical music one of I write a lot of choir right a lot of art songs There's a way you do high notes and there's an approach like just having someone go higher higher higher higher higher
39:14 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_04]: It's brutal on the voice.
39:15 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It kills it.
39:16 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a way that you shape the melody.
39:19 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-Duh-D
39:40 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You love how Leonard do I love how how I mean how go way back.
39:43 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:44 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I do look up the sheet music sometimes to see whether they're wrong and they give the range is this of five octaves and five half steps, which is massive and they say a low B to a low B to is so low that it's very thoroughly like a base note like I can sing it fine, but it's pretty low even in my range and then a high G seven and honestly
40:06 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't hear the low B too when I listen to the song.
40:09 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_04]: I hear a low E three, which I think it's like she does stuff like deeper than of Diana, Dreama, and there's a kind of little girl.
40:19 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it kind of goes back to our Tim Storm's Guinness book.
40:22 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like is she singing that note or is she kind of just going, oh.
40:26 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
40:26 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, the high G is another little flick.
40:31 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but her, her, her, her, her, her.
40:33 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_04]: She's clearly hitting an E and does she just sort of tap?
40:36 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_04]: So shrug, whatever.
40:38 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And even the credit.
40:39 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_04]: It's massive.
40:40 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a massive range.
40:41 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_04]: A massive range.
40:43 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_04]: What I want to talk about really is flipping between it rapidly as a way of conveying the extreme emotions that she's talking about, right?
40:52 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's not just the high range.
40:54 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It's that there's a few moments where she sort of breaks continuity that any mere mortal would just sing the next note in the melody, but what she does is sings that next note way higher or way lower than any of us would be able to comfortably do.
41:08 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is sort of a song-driving trick called Octave Displacement, but also sort of a performance trick.
41:15 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I could just write this in a song, but often this is something that might be brought to the song by a performer, because they can't, because most of us can't switch that quickly.
41:26 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's listen to the chorus and think about the continuity of the vocal line within that range, like how close are the notes to one another?
41:51 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So in each little fragment of the tune, the notes are kind of close together.
41:55 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_04]: There's some jumps, but between phrases, she's an extremely different.
42:00 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, gotten me feel in emotions is kind of in her high, like, trumpety, like, belty register.
42:07 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And then deeper than is super low.
42:09 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And then higher than the heavens is still kind of in that higher.
42:12 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_04]: She's setting up
42:14 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_04]: the expectation of a certain amount of disjointedness in this melody right so like literal with her like the lyrics and her vocal expression or so like literally connection to each other's voice that we caught word painting or text painting love it deeper than I've ever dreamed of as low higher than the heavens above of course we got I got friends in low places right that's
42:36 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_04]: other famous ninety star.
42:37 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: You sound just like him when he's saying.
42:38 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Do I?
42:39 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
42:40 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You're so versatile.
42:41 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm from San Diego.
42:42 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_04]: There was so much country music.
42:43 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet.
42:44 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So not only is the melody disjointed, but it has a lot of leaps.
42:48 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_04]: It's this is characteristic of music for a diva.
42:52 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_04]: or like Freddie Mercury or Bobby McFaren, these amazing vocalists tend to have the capacity to dream up melodies that have so many more leaps, whereas we've talked about in other episodes that most melodies are stepwise, meaning the notes are only one note apart, because most humans can sing that stuff, whereas most humans cannot sing like this.
43:16 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_04]: And so the songwriting becomes informed by the capabilities of your performer, right?
43:22 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And then you decide you're going to write a song about emotions and you go, well, let's set that to eleven at a ten, right?
43:28 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So listen here to the verse, we have again starting off low and then jumping to a high place.
43:53 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this idea of like being intoxicated by love, like that is a very real feeling.
43:58 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people, you know, this basic press and office to a certain response is actually really similar to a course all response.
44:06 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Really similar to like think of like when you fall in love with the first time, like
44:10 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You're getting a rapid heart rate, probably elevated blood pressure, probably getting cold sweats, feeling this nervous feeling without those same physiological feelings of anxiety.
44:20 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're just mapping them to a love expression rather than a fear expression.
44:24 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But your body's doing the same thing.
44:27 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is really interesting these drugs that function in our body how they like invoke feelings, but you do need context for the feeling because a blank slate would feel love and anxiety in the same way in the feelings in their body.
44:39 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just you need your brain to like connect the dots to tell you like what which is coming in.
44:43 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so cool.
44:46 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's super cool.
44:47 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, so it's like relative emotions are
44:51 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_04]: relative, or no, that they're constant, but are given meaning by the context.
44:56 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is so weird.
44:57 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like hard to wrap my brain around that, but yet I must.
45:01 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for some reason you must.
45:03 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually better if you don't think about it.
45:05 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
45:06 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And just let it cook.
45:07 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's like you can't.
45:09 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Does.
45:10 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm one of you trust.
45:11 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think psychologists.
45:14 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
45:15 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_04]: really by and large probably have more control over their emotions.
45:18 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, does learning, learning about this affect, like it affects my perception of music to understand music, but does your still feel like that?
45:28 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So even to the chemicals in the context?
45:30 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's like, like, an accumulation, like, this added to an accumulation.
45:33 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know what's causing it.
45:35 --> 45:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm someone that I'm an anxious human.
45:36 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I have panic attacks.
45:38 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I do.
45:39 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that is just because
45:43 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_00]: My nervous system is disregulated.
45:45 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_00]: My cortisol levels are high.
45:46 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know that that's what's causing it, but it still doesn't make it go away.
45:52 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_04]: You can, you know, it's talking down, but it still happens.
45:54 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I probably understand it, but like I'm still like my heart's beating a mile a minute.
46:00 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't, I can know that like, oh, I'm just anxious because of my previous experience in this environment.
46:05 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's causing my anxiety spike, but it doesn't help me talk myself down.
46:10 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:12 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: For some people, it probably does, but I'm just not there yet.
46:15 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just have to ride the wave, even though I know what's causing the tsunami.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You're still in the wave.
46:21 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_04]: It's still there.
46:22 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It's still there.
46:23 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It actually makes it harder because you know better.
46:27 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I know that I'm safe right now.
46:30 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that I'm safe going into the grocery store.
46:33 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So why am I feeling panicked?
46:35 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know nothing about it's going to happen at the movie theater or at the grocery store.
46:38 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm still panicked in those moments.
46:41 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's tricky.
46:42 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
46:43 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very judging person, but like then there's a sense of like.
46:48 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_04]: If I know this shouldn't be happening, why am I letting this happen?
46:52 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the stuff.
46:53 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't judge other people, but I judge myself for sure.
46:57 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I should know better.
46:59 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you have that in your field too, like you should know better.
47:03 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Totally.
47:06 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_04]: be flat when I'm saying.
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Right?
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you should know about it.
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you should be able to yodel like get it together.
47:11 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
47:12 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, not that I'm saying you should.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that we were more judgmental on ourselves.
47:17 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think psychologists are victims of that, too.
47:19 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we should know better.
47:21 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, but also, you're drawn to psychology for a reason, too.
47:26 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's like a, I'm trying to solve the puzzle.
47:29 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
47:30 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_04]: The unsolvable puzzle.
47:31 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really fascinating.
47:32 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_04]: We don't get the benefit of like, I cracked the code.
47:35 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I now can explain every error dressing or Taylor Swift collaboration that doesn't happen with the brain, right?
47:40 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's like the best part, like I was saying before, like, wouldn't it be a drag if you knew everything?
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the point?
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's fun to always uncover.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know that even if
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, like, I can tell in someone.
47:52 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see depression on someone.
47:54 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see anxiety on the student front of me.
47:56 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can see what they're physically doing with their body, their physiological presentation and the manifestation of that.
48:03 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know what's causing it.
48:05 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They probably don't even know what's causing it.
48:07 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can guess that it's something to do with their past.
48:10 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I can guess that it's maybe
48:12 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: something tricky going on in their neurobiology that's causing this feeling or their cortisol levels are off like I know physiologically that's what's happening but the root of that is so nuanced and it's easy that we're all made up of the same stuff
48:30 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like biologically, for the most part, I'll made up of the same stuff, but our reactions to things are so different.
48:36 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But I know love is love is an oxytocinvasive person response.
48:40 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But how come I'll look at someone and love them and you'll look at someone and hate them.
48:44 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Just first glance, right?
48:46 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what's causing that?
48:47 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Case in point, your husband.
48:49 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I look at him in love.
48:49 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Just kidding.
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_04]: No, he's awesome.
48:51 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_04]: He's awesome.
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't listen to this.
48:52 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So he'll never hear it.
48:53 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_04]: He and my brother should hang out.
48:55 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, also, by the way,
48:57 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_04]: What I the joke I made about Taylor Swift and dressed, you can't crack the code.
49:01 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing is what I did I'm referring to our first episode of this season is like, Oh, I figured it out.
49:07 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_04]: What I did was uncover one little thing about a few things.
49:09 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a form that's beautiful, but there's like a hidden variable and that is like the nuance of the human experience.
49:15 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_04]: You can never understand the mind.
49:17 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_04]: You can never really understand music either because it's art or it's expressing their own sorts of things.
49:21 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You're a very good musician.
49:23 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I had like a mediocre singing voice.
49:25 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If you and I re-recorded the folklore album, it would not even if we like followed it perfectly.
49:32 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't have that same magic.
49:33 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Nicole's version of folklore.
49:35 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:35 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
49:36 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_04]: The Marx version.
49:37 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It would not even if like we got the mechanics right.
49:40 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not the same.
49:42 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like the mechanics of our neurotransmitters are similar for the most part.
49:46 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has new ones for sure.
49:47 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But the presentation is different because we all have this.
49:51 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_00]: other layer to us called our subconscious, which is a different conversation.
49:55 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So, okay.
49:56 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me get to that a little bit.
49:58 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_04]: We got to get to our climax.
49:59 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:59 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
50:00 --> 50:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So when we hear the pre-chorus section, we're going to start to hear even bigger jumps, right?
50:06 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_04]: She covers a whole tenth of her range, which means an octave plus a few more notes.
50:10 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And she jumps up a seventh, which is seven.
50:13 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Whole notes, we're building towards even being more sort of range disjointed.
50:19 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_04]: We're getting to basically the reason I chose this song here.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Take a listen.
50:30 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_04]: What happens at the end of that?
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you hear it in your brain?
50:32 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you audience what happens next?
50:34 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_04]: She has the payoff here.
50:47 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So she's saying, I love the way, what is it?
50:50 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I like the way you're feeling inside.
50:53 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But she doesn't just go to the note.
50:55 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_04]: She goes to the note and an entire octave higher than it's supposed to be.
51:00 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_04]: She goes into her whistle register.
51:02 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_04]: It's supposed to be a G going to a G, G for to G five.
51:06 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_04]: She jumps all the way up to a G six.
51:09 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_04]: which is not only out of most people's range, but so far away from the note she started, maybe inside is kind of a weird word to do that.
51:19 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_04]: But on the other hand, like this well of emotion is just about to burst.
51:23 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you audience that?
51:25 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, can you hear it before she sings it?
51:27 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
51:28 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Me too.
51:28 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I create that note?
51:30 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_04]: No, that, that is insane.
51:32 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_04]: You could probably whistle it out.
51:34 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I could whistle it out, even if I tried.
51:37 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have no.
51:38 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I could.
51:39 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to try.
51:40 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to trust and not fair.
51:42 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I could.
51:43 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I've got.
51:44 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_04]: a solid octave lower than that.
51:46 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not, no, I can say.
51:47 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you could pull it off.
51:49 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_04]: No, never.
51:50 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So she's, she's in the top of the piano land there.
51:52 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So he needs a castrato.
51:54 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_04]: We've actually heard, so like, what you hear a castrato.
51:57 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk Italian.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, lost a new relation.
52:01 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So do we know about the castrato, everybody?
52:03 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_04]: You call, explain to everybody what the castrato are.
52:06 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You can castrate someone with a lower voice, and then, allegedly, it makes them have a higher voice, like a lady.
52:12 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, as they're a boy, so you take a boy.
52:16 --> 52:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a biological smell.
52:17 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_04]: This is in the Renaissance up until the last custody were made in the eighteen hundreds.
52:24 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_04]: There was actually recordings of some from the early nineteen hundreds or some maybe late.
52:31 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_04]: late, eighteen hundred's early recordings where this guy was ninety years old or whatever, but still the Italian opera and even the church was doing this.
52:41 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The church.
52:41 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_04]: The Catholic church.
52:42 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_04]: We are.
52:43 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_04]: You take a really good singer and you castrate him so he stays.
52:49 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_04]: really never loses his voice and it's a way this part of this is all wrapped up in patriarchy, misogyny like we want to feature men in performance and in a church context in certain areas you could only have male singers because women wouldn't have been allowed to sing in certain contexts but you get the like power and size of a man and so the volume but the range of like a operatic soprano
53:13 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And so you would get these crazy high notes that if you listen to these recordings and maybe I'll dig it in and pipe it in and you can hear it by listening to the episode one day.
53:22 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Hi everybody, Mark here.
53:23 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_04]: This is actually a recording of Alessandro Moreski, who is an Italian singer who was the only Castro to be captured on a solo recording.
53:34 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_04]: There are some recordings of some that were singing as a part of ensembles, but you can't really hear them very clearly.
53:39 --> 53:44 [SPEAKER_04]: This was made in nineteen-o-two, so he was actually only in his forties at this point.
53:44 --> 53:46 [SPEAKER_04]: But allegedly passed his prime at that point.
53:46 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_04]: He died in nineteen-twenty-two.
53:48 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_04]: This is an excerpt of him performing, Eugenio Cassiani's, Osteus et preches.
54:11 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
54:26 --> 54:41 [SPEAKER_04]: it's kind of haunting and maybe that's because it's an old recording and this guy was already really old when he recorded it but it's an ethereal sound and a very very very heinous practice because apparently like just like anything, the odds of you becoming world famous
54:42 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_04]: super slow and so they would like the boys choir director or whatever in some town in Italy in the seventeen hundreds would be castrating these boys and like one in fifty would become an opera superstar and the other ones would just live the rest of their lives compromised for the sake of somebody else's purpose yeah like add it to the list out of the list of wild heinous crap people do
55:07 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:08 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
55:08 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So doesn't necessarily have to do.
55:11 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Mariah Carey luckily was just born.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Who's born yesterday?
55:14 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_04]: She does not have the hormones that would cause a man's voice.
55:20 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
55:21 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And so she also has crazy.
55:24 --> 55:27 [SPEAKER_00]: She does have the hormones and does balance in different balance.
55:27 --> 55:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And she does have the biological markers of testicles.
55:31 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just her ovaries.
55:32 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_04]: because we are all the same mushy stuff.
55:34 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_04]: We're just remixed.
55:34 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_04]: But did I say meat puppet?
55:35 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Meat puppets.
55:35 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:35 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you like the meat puppets?
55:36 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I like the term meat puppet when referencing humans, but I don't know the band.
55:38 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know the band.
55:39 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know the band.
55:39 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:40 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:40 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:41 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:42 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:42 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:43 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:44 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:44 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
55:45 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know the band.
55:45 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know the band.
56:06 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so we've actually heard a moment almost the same as this, so we have this jump.
56:11 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Way back and like, I don't know, episode five, we heard true by Spanned Outbell A. And it's actually the same chord or very close to the same chord.
56:19 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And he hits the same note, except he's doing it with a single octave leap that we sort of would expect from a really nice, awesome singer.
56:40 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Can you audience the next?
56:42 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Does it like jump-up talk to us?
56:44 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, no, it's the.
56:46 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So, no, he does that the way he's supposed to do that.
56:49 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_04]: She does the same thing except pops an entire higher octave.
57:03 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is again called octave displacement.
57:05 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And what you're doing is taking an expected note, shifting it by an octave higher or an octave lower for various musical effect.
57:14 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_04]: In this case, I would say heightened emotion is the musical effect.
57:17 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a hyper extension of the jumpiness and the sort of disjointedness that the song has already had.
57:24 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the name of the song.
57:25 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Emotion.
57:26 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Emotion.
57:27 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I do have some other examples of artists doing this.
57:29 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody doing it quite like her.
57:32 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So podcast alumnus, uh, tears for fears.
57:35 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_04]: This one simple.
57:35 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_04]: This is not crazy range.
57:37 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_04]: This is something called change from their nineteen eighty three album.
57:41 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_04]: They just change which octave a melody note happens in.
57:43 --> 57:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not showing off.
57:44 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just repeating a melody and the next time you repeat it, changing the octave.
57:48 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Take a listen.
57:50 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all too late.
57:54 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not have the time.
57:58 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not have the nerve to ask you how you feel.
58:05 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this what you just said?
58:07 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So that does those notes are the same.
58:11 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Instead of just repeating it, you pop it up the second time.
58:14 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't seem like as
58:17 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_00]: beneficial in that tears for fear song as it does in the Mariah Carey sign for me.
58:22 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't seem like it has that a big payoff to do it just seems like an acrobatic or a trick.
58:26 --> 58:28 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not spectacular in the same way.
58:28 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_04]: That's more of just a songwriting.
58:31 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_04]: This melody note will be the same thing reflected on.
58:34 --> 58:35 [SPEAKER_04]: She is doing it as a nightmare.
58:35 --> 58:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like so hard to even compare anyone to more I carry.
58:39 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter what, it's going to be like, oh, I guess to your surface to like no one does like her.
58:44 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:44 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, apologies to anybody else I'm playing in this episode.
58:46 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_04]: You're not singing right now.
58:47 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You're never going to be as ghost.
58:49 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
58:50 --> 58:50 [SPEAKER_04]: You be you.
58:50 --> 58:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We're all still just mute puppets, right?
58:52 --> 58:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's another example.
58:53 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is Hime, which is a band that has already been mentioned in this podcast.
58:57 --> 58:59 [SPEAKER_04]: We talk about it a lot, but we haven't like focused on it.
58:59 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to focus on Hime later.
59:02 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a song called The Steps from twenty twenty.
59:05 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_04]: This time you expect, you would expect the melody.
59:09 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_04]: The melody should jump up a fourth.
59:11 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_04]: She adds a whole octave to it.
59:13 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Jumping up whole eleven on this one.
59:16 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Hine out.
59:16 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Listen.
59:17 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Today I wake up and I make the money for myself And though I share that to my bed I don't need your help to you
59:32 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Right?
59:32 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Just that understand, right?
59:34 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Pops up the actor, extra octaves.
59:36 --> 59:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Still feels melodic.
59:37 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't feel showy.
59:39 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:39 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_04]: But the songwriting is giving a little extra spice.
59:42 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They're songwriting's great.
59:43 --> 59:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a fan.
59:44 --> 59:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that their tone is so good.
59:46 --> 59:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that they're just great, like girl power stuff there.
59:50 --> 59:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Totally.
59:51 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll come back to them on short.
59:53 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That whole album's great.
59:54 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's awful.
59:56 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, one of the music parts.
59:57 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
59:58 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_04]: It's been too long since we talked about Taylor Swift.
01:00:02 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And you wouldn't let me promise never to.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's all you had to do was stay from.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And we get her popping up and octave at the end of the phrase.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And the last time when she's just sings, all you had to do was stay here the real note.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_04]: But every other time, it's all you had to do was, you got it.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this example of octave displacement, we're seeing that it does really mirror like a desperation in the lyrics.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like a reach because that's what the lyrics want us to do.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like kind of begging him or her or them to stay.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think for me, it's always that there's an application that like references back to the context of the song like I'm really into it.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And if it feels just like a showoff trick, I'm not that into it.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're not, oh, you are into it in emotions because it does like kind of mirror this like rise and fall of human emotions.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this Taylor Swift example, it mirrors like it talks about like the it feels desperate.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like you're reaching for someone trying to pull them back.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's how I interpret it.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We're interpreting it.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I got one more other example.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm playing this one because this is another podcast alumnus going back to the first episode we recorded, but it's not the first episode we released.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Third, I blind.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Second term life.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a part everybody remembers.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_04]: The sort of real melody that would be good, bye, but he goes, good, bye, or whatever.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I can barely do it, but he jumps a whole tenth instead of a third.
01:01:56 --> 01:01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I like it there too.
01:01:57 --> 01:01:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it's a displacement.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But just because it's a surprise in that song, like you don't expect it to happen.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It does seem like you're just showing off some vocal chops there.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's good.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's good.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like fits for me in a way that like maybe the tears are fierce didn't so much.
01:02:10 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, maybe you just just kind of hate none tears fears.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_00]: No, just so interesting, given all my talk about like emotions and tears for fears.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, there was a whole we went on a whole thing about.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It's psychology can actually.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we totally did.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The big chair.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big chair.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a big chair.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a big chair.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:37 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big chair.
01:02:37 --> 01:02:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:37 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a big chair.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_02]: It
01:02:38 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Mark here from the future.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Mark here editing.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, okay.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So a couple more just a couple more examples of this popping up at the song.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_04]: You guys, you guys get the point.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I've hit it for you.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:50 [SPEAKER_04]: But here's the bridge section.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We start with some wide leaps, seven, six.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But otherwise, it's pretty just straightforward.
01:02:55 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Melody writing.
01:02:57 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_04]: But then, of course, she explodes into the super high notes.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really just impressive.
01:03:24 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like her the richness of her vocal tone like in a lower range.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like so velvety and lovely that she can still like even pull that off.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:35 [SPEAKER_00]: when she reaches the higher right.
01:03:35 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Like she shouldn't be able to have so many good.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have so good.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_04]: One of them should be bad at least, right?
01:03:42 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not even, she seems subhuman, like, or ultrahuman or something.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I flowing too much steam to my carry right now?
01:03:51 --> 01:03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I like inflating her too much?
01:03:53 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like such a big fan.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I think she's got a, she's getting what she's doing.
01:03:57 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, she's, but she doesn't need us, but I think she's getting what she's doing.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I, she's so impressive.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I, I should note that this isn't.
01:04:05 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Octave displacement.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_04]: She's just building higher and higher, right?
01:04:08 --> 01:04:09 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of the payoff.
01:04:09 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, I do think it's a little unfair that you're giving so much awesome praise, but you're not really paying a lot of respect to Tim Storms here.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like weird.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like pretty cool, too.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's cool if you're like a bullfrog.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's our book.
01:04:30 --> 01:04:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's cool.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's got a neat sounding voice.
01:04:32 --> 01:04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really sounding voice.
01:04:34 --> 01:04:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I take it all back.
01:04:34 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So like wrapping up this song, at the outro, we actually hear the contrast between the ranges simultaneously.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Because she's doing the whistle thing while she's doing the tune, maybe there's some back of vocalist too, but I think it just might be the morios.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_04]: And we hear it all the sort of contrast between the registers simultaneously.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about extreme emotions.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about all the chemicals that fire to cause those emotions.
01:05:13 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know enough to really speak with any authority, obviously about this, but we're talking about extreme changes rapidly in those emotions.
01:05:23 --> 01:05:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And in two thousand one, she got a diagnosis for bipolar type two, bipolar two disorder, which
01:05:31 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really understand the differences, but is it off-base for me to put this out there as like extreme changes in emotion might be a part of Mariah's world, her life experience?
01:05:43 --> 01:05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:05:45 --> 01:05:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Holding that diagnosis a million percent.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So we all have like think of your emotions on like a pendulum, right?
01:05:51 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The world's swinging between like happy and sad, right?
01:05:54 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_00]: High and low.
01:05:57 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And that like we all have like a normal like a little like a I don't know what normal would be statistically but like we all have like a range of like swing a range of swing high and then swing low.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone with bipolar their highs are really really high like it's if you're pinch them swing just like a little bit.
01:06:16 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: or anyone with this diagnosis, you could say their pendulum swing like all the way to the top, then all the way to the other side, like back and forth.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And bipolar two has to do with certain swings aren't as far, right?
01:06:27 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_04]: There's only certain parts.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: bipolar one is more severe than bipolar two.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And that they have manic episodes, which is like hyper vigilant, hyper focused on things, like not sleeping for days, like kind of wild eye.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like people's like pupils actually change their manic episodes.
01:06:45 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like spun, right?
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:06:49 --> 01:06:52 [SPEAKER_00]: and may include depressive episodes as well.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Bipolar two includes that mania and depressive episodes, but they're usually less severe.
01:06:57 --> 01:07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So we used to call this mania's depression before they recorded it to bipolar.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So in bipolar one, the
01:07:05 --> 01:07:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Mania and the depressive episodes are so severe that they may last a really long time or require like you to be hospitalized as well.
01:07:12 --> 01:07:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And by polar two is more easily managed without hospitalization, you need to take medicine for it to regulate for sure.
01:07:21 --> 01:07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot, you know, another someone that says that they have bipolar is like Kanye, right?
01:07:25 --> 01:07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You see Kanye having really high highs where he goes off the rails sometimes, which is right, a clinical term.
01:07:32 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times with people with bipolar, you'll see them at their high highs.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you'll see when they're going a mile a minute, they're being like super creative.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like the life of the party, right?
01:07:44 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Really up.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't often see them at their lower moments, because they hide, because they're pressed, right?
01:07:50 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Their serotonin's not connecting in those moments.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no happy juice flowing around their brain.
01:07:55 --> 01:08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important to regulate with meds if you have this diagnosis.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I never knew that about my eye carry.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense if you think of this song.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe this wasn't to the extent that this had fully developed when in, in, in, in, in,
01:08:12 --> 01:08:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, but there might have been kind of sensation of extremeness emotionally.
01:08:17 --> 01:08:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And with that, I don't want to trivialize it by saying, oh, she put it in the song, but I noticed that when I was just looking into her and I thought it was worth dropping, considering that the theme I was trying to tackle.
01:08:28 --> 01:08:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that it definitely has relevance, absolutely.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And bipolar two, bipolar one is very, very common and very treatable.
01:08:35 --> 01:08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more stigmatized in the media than it needs to be like plenty of people, you know, and like moments of mania and depression that are clinical, plenty of people have that are subclinical and like that's fine too.
01:08:51 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So we talk about like falling and like rapid shifts, right?
01:08:54 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I started thinking about like skydiving a lot and bungee jumping a lot.
01:08:59 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever skydove?
01:09:04 --> 01:09:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I have not I think there was a time in my life when I would have and that time is passed right I think I am not interested anymore like I just I think if I was in my twenties and I've never been like
01:09:14 --> 01:09:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't the kid, you know, going belly first on a skateboard down the steep hill across the street.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that was the neighbor kid doing that.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that now I'm just too, oh man, it would really suck if I died.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_04]: It would suck for my family if I died.
01:09:30 --> 01:09:31 [SPEAKER_04]: It would suck for me if I died.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you're front a little bit developed.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not a risk center.
01:09:35 --> 01:09:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it seems fun, but I think it would also be so terrifying that I just probably wouldn't, I just, I just, I won't.
01:09:41 --> 01:09:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Would I, yes, will I know?
01:09:43 --> 01:09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, there is no amount of money that you could pay me to do that literally.
01:09:48 --> 01:09:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even like twenty bucks.
01:09:50 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a twenty bucks.
01:09:52 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's actually.
01:09:54 --> 01:09:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually think you could totally overcome because I think I I grew up kind of wanting to do it.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, that sounds fun.
01:10:01 --> 01:10:03 [SPEAKER_04]: You could you could pay me an amount of money that would make me do it.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: What would it be?
01:10:04 --> 01:10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Name your price.
01:10:05 --> 01:10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I've got it.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that money.
01:10:08 --> 01:10:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's funny because like almost I would I'm almost would just do it like I'm not that far away.
01:10:13 --> 01:10:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I won't do it, but I'm almost like how much would it I want to say a million dollars, but actually I'd say five million way less because I I don't think I would take that much the right amount of peer pressure, whatever, would get me to do it already.
01:10:26 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:10:27 --> 01:10:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you like my wife was desperately wanted to do it?
01:10:31 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And all of our friends.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I maybe it would resurrect the twenty-year-old idiot in me, but I don't know.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:41 [SPEAKER_04]: A few thousand, like, I don't know.
01:10:41 --> 01:10:42 [SPEAKER_04]: A few thousand?
01:10:43 --> 01:10:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, maybe I want to do it, but I never will.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:45 [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying.
01:10:45 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I would, but I won't.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: There's too much, there's too much mistake.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And so that's the thing, money could, well, like, eh, if ten million dollars, like, it's fine if I die.
01:10:54 --> 01:10:55 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, my kids are fine, right?
01:10:55 --> 01:10:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that's what it is.
01:10:56 --> 01:11:01 [SPEAKER_04]: That what amount of money replaces my income over the next the rest of their, like, I don't know.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no replacement mark.
01:11:02 --> 01:11:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's no replacement mark.
01:11:03 --> 01:11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Money isn't everything.
01:11:04 --> 01:11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
01:11:04 --> 01:11:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Who would host this podcast by died in a freak, uh, but yeah, predictable skydiving, predictable.
01:11:19 --> 01:11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Baxter and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
01:11:26 --> 01:11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow on social media.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Nevermind the music is also part of the lorehouse network.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Please join the conversation on their Discord server.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.