Are things getting a bit companionate or maybe just fatuous? In this episode, we swoon to Kendrick Lamar and Sza’s 2024 slow jam “Luther.” Mark goes gaga over the surprising long-term trajectory of this song’s melody. Since we know our listeners always fall for a good classification system, this week Nichole brings us a good one: the triangular theory of love! The music and psychology pieces are certainly locking lips in this episode.
Other music heard in this episode: Dionne Warwick - “I Say a Little Prayer”, Taylor Swift - “End Game (feat. Ed Sheeran)”, Rihanna - “Work (feat. Drake)”, Beyoncé - “Crazy in Love (feat. Jay-Z)”, Ariana Grande - “Side by Side (feat. Nicki Minaj)”, Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell - “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough”, Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell - “If This World Were Mine”, Luther Vandross and Cheryl Lynn - “If This World Were Mine”, Cheryl Lynn - “Got to be Real”, Luther Vandross - “Never Too Much”, Luther Vandross - “Here and Now”, Kendrick Lamar - “All the Stars (feat. SZA)”, SZA - “Good Days (feat. Jacob Collier)”, Taylor Swift - “Out of the Woods”, David Guetta - “Turn Me On (feat. Nicki Minaj)”, Ariana Grande - “No Tears Left to Cry”
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Jazziness has to be a part of that style a little bit sometimes.
00:03 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_12]: G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major, G major
00:30 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, I'm Mark, and I'm Nicole, and this is never mind the music.
00:34 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_18]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Collaborations.
00:38 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I love that.
00:38 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Collaborations are fun, right?
00:40 --> 00:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Like sometimes it's a duet or a band with a vocalist, producer.
00:45 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_18]: Our collaboration has really fun.
00:46 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Our collaboration has been really fun, and fruitful, I would say.
00:50 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_12]: I want to start talking about those artists that seem to collaborate over and over again, the multiple, what would be the term, like multiple offenders?
01:00 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_12]: What's the term?
01:01 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that's the term recurring offenders.
01:03 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_18]: It fenders seems really high.
01:05 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, right.
01:05 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_12]: So what are the most frequent collaborators?
01:08 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Threefold collaboratively.
01:08 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's highlight some of the most iconic pairings.
01:11 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not counting duos, like Simon and Garfield.
01:14 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't count.
01:15 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm not counting like,
01:16 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Jack Anson often tales with like a producer often will come back with the same artist over the time.
01:21 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm talking about intersections, right.
01:24 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_18]: Like often like common collaboration.
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Should we start with never mind the music alumnus that we already talked about.
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
01:32 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Rebecca Rack and deal more work.
01:34 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_12]: Hot and heavy.
01:35 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Remember back to season one, we did a say a little prayer in 1967.
01:50 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_04]: We talked about it, walk on by, do you know the way to San Jose?
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_12]: I'll never fall in love again.
02:04 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_12]: This song doesn't literally dozens of songs they did together, right?
02:09 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_12]: So, I have some more I can shadow.
02:11 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_12]: Do you have any?
02:12 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm trying to think, I'm having a block, but as soon as you say
02:18 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I had an advantage.
02:19 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_12]: I prepped an advantage.
02:20 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_18]: You did prep an advance in the, I often feel like I get pigeonholeed here.
02:24 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_18]: That's not the right word.
02:25 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm like, oh, I've only had prep an advance, but I just didn't know the question.
02:29 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_18]: I didn't know the prompt.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_12]: You're an improviser.
02:32 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm trying to be an improviser.
02:33 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's go Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran.
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_18]: They are often clappers.
02:38 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Three different songs run and everything is changed.
02:42 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_12]: And this one, 2017.
02:43 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_12]: And game.
03:00 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_18]: I love how aggressively British is got it's great to like in Taylor Swift's most recent content drop.
03:13 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_18]: She just talks about her last hours tour show and like the last couple of dates and when she played at London at Wembley Stadium.
03:21 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_18]: She had Ed Sheeran come and like rehearse backstage with her for like
03:25 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_18]: two minutes before he came on stage and they were, it was cool to see them make music together because you think of them as like big pop stars.
03:32 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_18]: But then when it comes down to it, there's two people with guitars like teaching each other how to play the parts.
03:36 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_18]: It was really, really kind of lovely.
03:39 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_12]: I think that's an interesting one too because at the point that they did that, they were kind of maybe parallel equivalent start-up.
03:45 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_12]: I think Taylor Swift, collaborating with Taylor Swift now is a little bit harder.
03:50 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_12]: because she's such a massive star, like biggest in the world, kind of level, whereas 2017, Ed Sheeran was kind of maybe still kind of at the height of his, not that Ed Sheeran's decline, but like, they were more like, oh, these two artists at the same level.
04:03 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_12]: It was like more like Paul McCartney collaborating with Michael Jackson on those couple songs in the 80s where like these are two mega stars, right?
04:11 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_18]: And now, what Taylor Swift does is she doesn't collaborate with them.
04:13 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_18]: She'll just like put her cell phone one of their songs and just get the Taylor Swift effect.
04:19 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_18]: I can only grace Eve for him, Sabrina Carpenter.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, I'm in some ways.
04:22 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_18]: There's lots of comments.
04:24 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_12]: I mentioned, well, in our last episode, a couple of weeks ago that we, I had been listening to ever more with my daughter.
04:32 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Why did I even bring it up?
04:33 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Because there was five.
04:35 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a five.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Four and five eight.
04:37 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_12]: That song that Hime is on, we have a Hime episode, and I heard it again, and I really tried to hear the Hime.
04:43 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Hime, I feel like get the short end of the stick and that song.
04:46 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_12]: What is that nobody, no crime?
04:47 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_12]: They just do some backing vocals, and Hime is great with backing vocals.
04:50 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_12]: It's only two sisters, by the way.
04:51 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Elana's not in it.
04:53 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_12]: She was probably shooting licorice pizza or something, but...
04:56 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_12]: The whole deal with time is they're like a band, a sister band, like why is I'm not playing the drums in the bass and the guitars and that, like as a collab, it's more like, hey, you guys are buddies of mine come seeing backing vocals.
05:07 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
05:07 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Where I kind of want like a hymn verse where it's like there's a version of the hymn song, Gassalene, which is a great song that features Taylor and Taylor just gets the second verse of this song.
05:19 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
05:19 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_12]: The original version, it's all Danielle Hymn, they just said, oh, let's feature Taylor
05:25 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_18]: When you co-ab, it's nice when you feature both of the people, you know, and Sabrina Carpenter do that well in life of a show girl.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_12]: We have a really good set that.
05:34 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_18]: But they do shift the key for Sabrina.
05:38 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_18]: When Sabrina is saying, you know that she had ownership over the creativity of that song.
05:43 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_12]: They weren't around her strengths and weaknesses.
05:45 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
05:45 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_18]: And I really kind of went at and rich the song.
05:48 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_18]: Drake and Rihanna collaborated a lot.
05:51 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_12]: How many?
05:51 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm not sure.
05:52 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_18]: A bunch though.
05:53 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_18]: I like looped them together.
06:07 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I I looped like Jay-Z and Beyonce together as collaborators.
06:17 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like married couple.
06:18 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_18]: But like they weren't married when they first crazy and loved great collaboration.
06:22 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_18]: They weren't married yet.
06:40 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, how many sounds have they did together?
06:42 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, same Jay-Z.
06:43 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
06:44 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm not sure.
06:45 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_18]: No way to tell.
06:51 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_12]: She's looking up.
06:52 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_18]: At least 12 to 15 notable songs throughout the career.
06:57 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_18]: Well, great new crazy in love, Bonnie and Clyde, Drunk and Love.
07:01 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_12]: All right, I kind of feel like they don't count, but the obviously count.
07:04 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_12]: If it leads to them getting married, sure.
07:06 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_12]: So, Ariana Grande and Nicki Minaj, six songs, Bang Bang, bad, this is side by side from 2016.
07:29 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_19]: What's the fresh type of flour?
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_19]: Miss Einstein's a girl, right?
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_19]: My stucko.
07:34 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_19]: I'm true, y'all.
07:35 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_19]: Get you the type of flour.
07:37 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_19]: If you wanna manage, I gotta try stucko.
07:41 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_18]: And it's really interesting with collaborations because a lot of pieces have to fall into place for collaboration to work, right?
07:48 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_18]: Like, you need to be stylistically similar enough to mesh.
07:51 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_18]: You need to have different skill sets that work well together that add value to each other.
07:57 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's really interesting about relationships in general that you need different pieces to fall into place for them to click in.
08:04 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_18]: And when they do, you kind of keep going back to it.
08:07 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_18]: Like our collaboration, we've always worked well together
08:11 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_12]: And we're repeat offenders, right?
08:14 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So famously, one more example, sort of Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell, recorded multiple albums together, worth of music, or there's multiple albums worth of their collaboration.
08:23 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's dozens again.
08:24 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if we could count them as a duo, though.
08:27 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like we associate Marvin Gaye more with Marvin Gaye solo stuff.
08:31 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_12]: But of course, most famous collaboration from 1967, eight no mountain high enough.
08:37 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a name, I live there in a hurry, you don't have to worry, oh baby, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
09:06 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_11]: I'd give you anything.
09:13 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_08]: If this were for mine, I'd make you okay.
09:19 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_17]: With wealth untold.
09:21 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_17]: I'm so... See where we're going.
09:23 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm so dumb.
09:24 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm so dumb.
09:25 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_18]: But I never realized that's why this song was called Luther.
09:29 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_18]: And even when that's not Luther.
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_12]: That's Marvin Gaye.
09:33 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
09:34 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_12]: That's Marvin Gaye, Tammy Terrell.
09:37 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_12]: And in 1982, Cheryl Lane and Luther Vandross play.
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_12]: Do a cover.
09:43 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Luther Vandross.
09:44 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Vandross?
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Vandross?
09:46 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_12]: I always thought it was Luther Vandross.
09:48 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Luther Vandross.
09:49 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Luther Vandross.
09:50 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, Jesus.
09:51 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Come on.
09:51 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_12]: That's not just an accent thing.
09:53 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
09:53 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe it is.
09:54 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Lutheran dress.
09:55 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
09:55 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Lutheran dress.
09:56 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
09:56 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
09:57 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
09:58 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't learn good.
09:59 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_12]: I guess.
09:59 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
10:02 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_11]: So 1982, they collab on a cover of that same song.
10:23 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_21]: If this world were mine, I would make you a king with wealth untold.
10:36 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_12]: So here we are.
10:37 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_12]: I've had enough.
10:39 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_12]: So Cheryl Lynn, I've barely heard.
10:42 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Her most famous song, I mean, her collaborations with Luther on the side, would be got to be real from 1978.
10:50 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_12]: That's the, that's one of those songs everybody knows, but do you know the name of it that from our generation?
11:11 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_12]: very very fun disco.
11:13 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
11:14 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Now, Luther Vandross, slash Luther Vandross, like, is that were you a fan?
11:19 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I am.
11:21 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_18]: I am a fan.
11:22 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_18]: My parents used to listen to him and I just really nostalgic for me and I remember like we had a CD of his and he has this, like, really funny suit on the cover of the CD.
11:32 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_18]: A sharp guy.
11:33 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_18]: Great voice, great lyricist, great vocalists.
11:36 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_12]: My parents kind of skipped the 80s R&B thing.
11:39 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_12]: Like I heard soulful stuff from the 70s or the 90s would have been in fire.
11:43 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_12]: But let's see, yeah, I came to that stuff later for the most part.
11:47 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_12]: My parents.
11:49 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_12]: So my mom, this is like other Southern California coming of age and the disco era thing.
11:54 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Like my dad was a very like stereotypically not wouldn't have been into disco.
12:00 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_12]: And my mom was like super in, she was from San Francisco, like super in to disco, like nice.
12:05 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_12]: I think that the truce they reached, there wasn't a lot of disco still playing in my household.
12:11 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_12]: I had to come to it later.
12:12 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_12]: So Luther though, like, I actually to prep for this, listened to a lot of his like hits and it's just, good.
12:21 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes be reminded of how many songs you already know by an artist that I'd ever really dove deep into, never too much, 1981, the songs of Bangor.
12:36 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_11]: Falling this is from new isn't it?
12:39 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_11]: But who knows?
12:51 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_12]: And yes, so velvety voice.
12:52 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_18]: It's like the definition of easy listening to me.
12:55 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not quite quite storm though.
12:57 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_12]: No, some of his other stuff is for sure, though.
13:00 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_12]: So here's here and now a little later, 1989 classic ballad.
13:05 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_11]: So good.
13:08 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_11]: Here and now I promise to love faithful.
13:26 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_12]: But we're here because they did, if this world were mine in 1982, which brings us to the subject of this week's episode, we're talking about Luther by Kendrick Lamar featuring SZA.
13:51 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_18]: It's really interesting, I don't know if we need to do a whole plagiarism watch here.
13:58 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_18]: But it's interesting that Marvin Gaye is credited as a songwriter for this, and they don't credit Luther Vendros as a songwriter, but he's kind of honored in the naming of the song.
14:11 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_18]: I think that's, I have a lot of respect for that.
14:14 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, the title is really interesting because it doesn't, it's just a reference to Luther or artists.
14:20 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not, I mean, we can talk about whether the lyrics if it fits within that context.
14:24 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_12]: But yeah, the song has a like massive set of song writers.
14:32 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_12]: So the song writers of the song, Kendrick Duckworth.
14:35 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_12]: So Lana Rao.
14:36 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Inc. who's a teabogs.
14:39 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Sam you'll do sharing writing credit also with the producers Scott Bridgeway, Soundwave, Mark Spears, Jack Antonaw, Kamasi Washington, Matthew Bernard, Rushweeda, Larisha Bacha, and of course, then Marvin Gaye because of the sample, but yeah, you
14:56 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Copyright Roth, 2026, you wouldn't credit Luther, but they had to clear the sample.
15:03 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_12]: So because that's an actual sample of that clip we heard Cheryl Lind's voice, there are also clips of Luther's voice.
15:11 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_12]: So that whoever owns the masters of the recording which could be the artists in some case, but some cases the record labels, right?
15:20 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_12]: So, but then the homage of the,
15:22 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_12]: I love that.
15:23 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_18]: And when he won the Grammy for this record, he thanked Luther.
15:27 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_18]: That was just, you think, thank Luther Vendros.
15:29 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_18]: And I really, I really admire Kendrick Lamar for so many different reasons.
15:35 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that he is so much integrity.
15:36 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_18]: And that really, all of those things really speak to that.
15:40 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_18]: And when we've done our plagiarism watching the past a lot of times, what comes up for me is like, yeah, you don't have to credit them, but shouldn't you?
15:46 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_18]: Like,
15:49 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that Kendrick did this in a really lovely way.
15:53 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_18]: Like he didn't even have to mention Luther Vendros at all, but he honored him so much throughout the whole process, even at like the the apex of the song, winning the Grammy.
16:02 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_18]: Like he still that was the first thing he did.
16:03 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's he's just a standout guy.
16:05 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Did you watch the music video?
16:06 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's beautiful.
16:07 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Do you remember how it ends?
16:09 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_18]: How's it end?
16:09 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_12]: The last like minute of this music video.
16:11 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_12]: This is like a short film, right?
16:13 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_18]: It's so gorgeous.
16:13 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_12]: And every time we get the...
16:15 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_12]: If this were woman...
16:17 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_12]: It's diagetic, right?
16:18 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not just the way it sounds in the single.
16:22 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It sounds like it's playing on the radio.
16:25 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, very cool.
16:25 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_12]: But then it ends with like...
16:28 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_12]: a minute of the actual Lutheran Charlene version.
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_12]: It's just plays it.
16:32 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, awesome.
16:33 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_18]: I felt like I looked at stills of the music video because I was really interested in the repeated circular patterns that show all the stuff through the music video and that I was interested in that for the reasons I'm going to bring up on that cover some stuff here.
16:47 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_12]: But it's just interesting that like you're talking about homage like they made the music video and they don't even end it with this This song will talk about it a little bit doesn't really have an ending it kind of just ends on this floaty thing and then ends on this dissonant note out of the kind of a dissonant place in the key But then they just play a minute of the 1982 cover and so yeah, I mean there's definitely royalties being like people or everybody's making money there.
17:17 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_18]: to give him some money.
17:18 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Ooh, for past and pretty sure.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_18]: Or his estate or something.
17:21 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_18]: That's a way, okay, we can't really credit you, but maybe they put it in, he put it in just so they could give his family something.
17:28 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean like maybe yeah yeah he died in 2005 yeah maybe there's part of it it's also just kind of beautiful also just as a work of art again it folks should watch it it's like a short film like I don't know how it kind of how it fits within the plot of the song we can maybe come back to that but I for sure know how it does okay so let's come back once we kind of go in but just contextually I think this is the newest song we've ever done
17:53 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_12]: We have a few 2020's sightings.
17:56 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_12]: You know, we did like something from folklore 2020.
17:58 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_12]: We did do a leap of tune.
18:01 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_12]: That was only a few years old, but this song would just one.
18:04 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_12]: What was this record?
18:06 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Did this one record of the year?
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_18]: I always get record of it.
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_18]: It run record of the year.
18:10 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_18]: The one what like production, right?
18:12 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Just one record of the year at the 2026 Grammys, this album came out, this is 2025, I'm pretty sure, no, no, this album, I think maybe came out in 2024, technically, but pretty new song, the funny thing is like we decided essentially that we wanted to talk about Kendrick after the whole, we did season one, infamously we talked about Drake before the full blow up of the Drake Kendrick feud.
18:41 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_12]: in my suspicions were proven truths like Draco weirdo and then the world caught up with you work finally and then we were like now we should probably do Kendrick and so when I'm thinking of season two I was planning on doing Kendrick and I was there's other songs I was thinking of doing originally like these walls at one point was one I kind of want to do all right but there's a maybe that's maybe my favorite song by him but maybe a little too many
19:07 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_12]: uh, when we're talking about the literal rhythm of the text, I don't know if I don't want to play it on this podcast that many times, but the funny things like this song came out and I we talked about it and stuff on our Grammy's episode and it made me go gosh, I really want to talk about Luther, but at the same time, I feel like that we've talked about Kendra good enough.
19:28 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_12]: It's like handed it back to me like maybe this doesn't this can be more like a Taylor Swift episode where we can dive into the music we can talk about the context of it, but we didn't like have to get into what are your thoughts on Taylor Swift I feel like Kendrick is exposed enough that we can just like talk about audiences with us.
19:49 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_12]: but we're here to talk about collaborations and there have been a bunch of collaborations between Kendrick Lamar and Sissa, right?
19:58 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_12]: And so we should shout out some of that.
20:00 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_12]: So the first time I heard Sissa by the way, I don't know.
20:03 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Like for me it was the Black Panther soundtrack.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_12]: It was just tune they did.
20:07 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_12]: All the stars.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_12]: This is 2018.
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Pretty popular tune.
20:21 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_22]: But you're gonna do to me Confertation ain't nothing new to me You could bring a bullet, bring a score, bring a mark But you can't bring the truth to me
20:31 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_12]: She'd already done her first record at that point from the year before, but I hadn't heard her at all until that song, but there's been eight collaborations between them.
20:40 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_12]: That's a lot.
20:40 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_12]: So, Cisza's Babylon in 2014.
20:43 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_12]: They both were on J.
20:46 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Rock's EasyBake in 2015.
20:48 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Kendrick's Untitled O4 from his, from the Untitled Like Mixed Tape or whatever 2016.
20:55 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Cisza Song Doves in the wind from 2017.
20:58 --> 21:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Kendrick's Gloria from 2024, which is also on this G&X album.
21:04 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_12]: And Cisza's 30 for 30 from 2024, which I think came out after this, so it's actually that's the newest one.
21:11 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_12]: But apparently they go way back to early in their careers and they have like a
21:19 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_12]: You know, a romantic vibe.
21:20 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_18]: No, I mean, it's so interesting because the song is about the intimacy of love and my point of view is that love can come in many forms.
21:31 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_18]: And I feel like they do have an intimacy of love between them.
21:34 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_18]: And it's okay that it's more platonic and brothers.
21:37 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_18]: It's love isn't always romantic love.
21:40 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I think this one is the song is romantic love, is a sex first, but you can still feel an intimacy between them and that's why the song works so well It's because they have a relationship
21:49 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think they do what they work well together that make cool music together.
21:53 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_12]: They seem to want to keep doing it too.
21:56 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_12]: And this one worked for them.
21:57 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is a number one hit.
21:59 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Not his first number one, right?
22:01 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_12]: So humble in 2017, like that, the tune with future and retro boom in 2024, not like us, of course, huge as song of the world from 2024.
22:13 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Squabble up, also on this album.
22:15 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Number one hit, port TV off, only hit, number two, that max out of number two.
22:20 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Good man.
22:21 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Sizzah though, a little different.
22:22 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, I think she started getting major exposure, you know, all the stars, but also 2022.
22:28 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Her second album, that's the first time that I really would have listened beyond just like a single.
22:34 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_12]: And yeah, she, she's a songwriter.
22:38 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_12]: She's not a vocalist, like really great.
22:39 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_18]: And that album won a ton of awards, right?
22:42 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_18]: Was it that one or the her next one?
22:44 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_12]: I think that's her most recent album.
22:46 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know that she has a newer one than 2022, but him, Mark editing here, sort of true.
22:52 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_12]: She did a deluxe version of that 2022 SOS album in 2024, but it has 15 new tracks on it, so it's almost like a totally new record.
23:02 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_12]: That's the one with her dressed as a weird bug monster on the cover.
23:06 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Check it out.
23:07 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Here's good days from 2020.
23:09 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_12]: This is a
23:14 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Jacob Collier who had an nomination in 2025 that Grammy seat and he was the guy like like he could stretch across different genres like everyone everyone's on his album right here we go this is that song
23:47 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_12]: But for her, the number ones, there are two currently, right?
23:50 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_12]: This song, Luther, and another collaboration, Kill Bill with Doja Cat, right?
23:55 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_12]: There's two versions of it, and I think it's the one featuring Doja Cat that actually hit number one.
24:00 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_12]: So collaborations and Cisad go together.
24:03 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, for sure.
24:04 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_18]: She has a lot of, I'm surprised that those are only her only two number ones because she has a lot like Saturn was a great song.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
24:11 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_18]: News was a great song.
24:12 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
24:13 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't that another one?
24:14 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_12]: That was popular, wasn't it?
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_12]: But okay, so back to Luther.
24:18 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_18]: Back to Luther.
24:19 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_12]: 13 weeks at number one, second longest running hip-hop song in terms of the number one spot after Old Town Road.
24:28 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
24:28 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_12]: It did win record of the year, also best melodic rap, so many categories.
24:32 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_12]: But the production, I feel like record of the year is very well earned, just the strings orchestration in this.
24:39 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_12]: I guess all those producers in there, the cooks in the kitchen, like they were able to do a big, a big massive restaurant style.
24:47 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, we're we're mixing our metaphors, but because in the kitchen hell, they did not get in each other's way because the kitchen is like a really diverse pie just listen to the outro
25:09 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_12]: And there's, of course, the samples going in that, but it's very much feels like it's an homage to the arrangement style of that 80s on the also.
25:20 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, when Kendrick came up, I was living in LA in his south part of LA County.
25:26 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_12]: I was a sucker for like good kid mad city and to pin the butterfly, but this song is definitely we're talking about really good.
25:51 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know at all what you want to talk about, but I'm going to want to talk about the unfolding of the melody and how it relates.
25:58 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a lot of form this season, how it connects to the form.
26:01 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_12]: And so in a lot of songs, you have a melodic arc within a section like the melody goes up and then goes down.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_12]: In this song,
26:10 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Each section is like dominated by a certain note.
26:14 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Like the verse is the D section.
26:17 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_12]: D, D, the note, D, right?
26:20 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_12]: The chorus is the F sharp section.
26:22 --> 26:23 [SPEAKER_12]: The pre-chorus is the B section.
26:23 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_12]: And what we get is a story of pitch progression.
26:27 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_12]: from stability to tension over the course of the song.
26:31 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_12]: And it creates an interesting story that we can, a lot of storytelling here.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_12]: We talked about it with the lyrics very specifically with Tracy Chapman a few weeks ago.
26:39 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_12]: But there's this duet, this interplay romantically, that is pointing melodically through the shape over time towards tension.
26:49 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Not towards resolution.
26:50 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm picking words that you just said and like going to overlay them in what I'm playing to talk with Sternberg's triangular love theory, which is a bad name for a really awesome theory.
27:00 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_18]: It's.
27:01 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_12]: There's like showing you a lot that sounds angular.
27:04 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_18]: It's lovely.
27:06 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
27:06 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_18]: But this, I was thinking of this song and thinking of the music video and thinking about the circles that show up at all these music videos and reading a lot of that has been written about this video.
27:17 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_18]: It's like a piece of cinema about the imagery used and how circles represent intimacy.
27:23 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think about intimacy.
27:25 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_18]: and how there are different levels of intimacy for different types of love, like almost in the song, how different sections of different keys that are attached to it, different relationships have different versions of intimacy that are attached to it, and that led me to really overlaying these ideas into this one theory that isn't my theory.
27:47 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_18]: different types of loves and friendships and relationships and collaborations that exist in our society.
27:53 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_18]: So I think we have some good connections here.
27:55 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_12]: I think this time, let me go, let me go through music first.
27:58 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_18]: You always go through music first.
28:00 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_12]: That's not true.
28:00 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_18]: Most of the time.
28:01 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_18]: I don't mind.
28:03 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_12]: System of the Dow just last time, always totally do.
28:06 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's
28:07 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_12]: We don't know the details either is going into.
28:10 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
28:11 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_12]: For me, it's like, which person's thing will inform the other person's that I think the punctuation is what you want to talk about.
28:19 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe the connections I make will.
28:21 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_18]: It always informs that.
28:23 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It always does.
28:24 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_18]: Like always like I can find other ways to kind of as opposed to when we did fast car.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_12]: It was.
28:30 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_12]: your psychological context then gave me a lens for the lyrical analysis, right?
28:36 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so let's talk music.
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
28:39 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_12]: So this tune is in the key of D, D major.
28:42 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_12]: This is what D major sounds like, been a while since you've heard Mark on the piano.
28:57 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and most of the song is two chords D and then G. Sometimes with a 7th or a 9th because it is sort of R&B.
29:05 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Jazziness has to be a part of that style a little bit sometimes.
29:09 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_12]: G major D. G major D. G major D. G major D. G major D. G major D. G major D. B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:16 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:16 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:17 --> 29:17 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:18 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:18 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_17]: B.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_12]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_12]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_12]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_12]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B.
29:20 --> 29:20 [UNKNOWN]: B
29:21 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
29:22 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you.
29:22 --> 29:24 [SPEAKER_17]: That big going throughout the whole thing.
29:24 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_12]: You speak over our whole thing.
29:26 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_12]: OK.
29:26 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_12]: So Luther Vandro slashed Vandros has a sample that opens our tune.
29:31 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_12]: And it's unstable.
29:33 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_12]: So think of D, but his on the word mine, he chills on the C sharp, which is the most tense part of the scale.
29:44 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_12]: So if here's D major again,
29:47 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_12]: dough, T, mine, it wants to go up to D, and we start with that floaty tension.
29:59 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_12]: See how it's swappled with mine.
30:00 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah?
30:02 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_12]: See, sure.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Good, good, well mine.
30:04 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_12]: I think I did it.
30:05 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think you might have been on it, do it again.
30:08 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_17]: That's D. That's D. That's the sharp dude.
30:13 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_17]: That's pretty close.
30:15 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
30:16 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_11]: If this world were mine.
30:18 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
30:19 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
30:20 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to get that.
30:20 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_12]: And then later by the way, we get the Sherylin sample.
30:23 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_12]: That's kind of the more frequent one we hear.
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_12]: And that also ends on the C sharp.
30:27 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_12]: And hold that tension in our brain as we do this.
30:31 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_15]: If this world were mine.
30:34 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Beautiful.
30:35 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_12]: So as we listen to the various sections, let's see if we can follow now that we have the key in our head, the notes that are emphasized.
30:43 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_12]: So here we go.
30:45 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_12]: After the Luther opening, we go right into Kendrick's first verse.
30:50 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_24]: If this world wasn't mine, I'd take your dreams and make them most apply.
30:56 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_24]: If this world wasn't mine, I'd take your enemies and find a guy.
31:00 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_24]: And you'd do some to the light.
31:01 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_24]: Hit those strictly with their five.
31:04 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_25]: Five, five.
31:06 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_25]: Five, five, five.
31:08 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_25]: Five, five.
31:09 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of D. We're in the key of D. The key note is D.
31:15 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_12]: And he hits a lot of D. Listen here.
31:18 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_24]: I'm making it obvious.
31:28 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_12]: She's laughing at me, but what would you do without the piano, everybody?
31:31 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_18]: No, I'm laughing because you said she hits the love of D, and I'm sure I love it.
31:34 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Love it, you know what I mean, but I can't do it.
31:38 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so, by the way, you had another tempo, that's great for short clips, because I did a whole part of the form in.
31:46 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_12]: So in this second verse, we get more of this D.
31:51 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, stop it.
31:55 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_24]: I'm not doing it.
32:02 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_24]: I'm going to teach you.
32:09 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_24]: Oh, yeah.
32:11 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_24]: I knew that late.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_24]: I'm so happy.
32:18 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_12]: So we are starting completely stable in the key, right?
32:21 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_18]: And I love it because that's the, it's like bringing you back home over and over again and it's making you feel really comfortable in the key.
32:28 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_18]: Like you're really settling into it.
32:29 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_12]: You say bring you back home, but we don't ever leave it right.
32:32 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_18]: It's a really great and smart convention.
32:36 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_18]: And I always wonder, are they doing it on purpose?
32:38 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure he's doing it on purpose.
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, let's see where it goes, right?
32:41 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_12]: So because often you'll have a story, this thing happens in other music, but
32:46 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_12]: to spoil myself.
32:47 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_12]: We're starting so solidly on that D, and it goes further and further away as we go, right?
32:52 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_12]: So by the way, these verses, the words here, he's basically saying like, if I could, you would have everything, you'd win, but also like punishing your enemies and fire and stuff.
33:03 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a kind of aggro element to it, too.
33:06 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not all sweet, right?
33:07 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_12]: But then, CISA comes in in the pre-chorus, and she's leaning on the note B.
33:13 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_12]: which is the sixth in that key.
33:16 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_12]: So, take a listen.
33:26 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_08]: But then Luther gives us the D, I think, and in the phrase while we hold.
33:37 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard it.
33:38 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_12]: I heard it.
33:39 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Grow up.
33:40 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_12]: So the B, here's the B, in the context of the D key.
33:49 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And then she...
33:57 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Right, so we've left something, and this is a little more floaty, a little like we're in a neighboring area, so to speak, right, and she's talking about, she's talking about like more, it seems almost more vulnerable, right, like she's referring to past heartache and struggles and stuff, and like all good pre-chorus is we also kind of end on a, it's a lot of G here, but we end on this.
34:20 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_12]: half diminished core that's nice and juicy.
34:22 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Even the Luther hits hits the D note, the chord becomes unstable, and it makes us want the chorus.
34:30 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
34:32 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
34:39 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_18]: Don't Boris get to the chorus.
34:41 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, but it's not boring.
34:42 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_18]: It's not boring.
34:42 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_18]: I just like to say the expression because it's right because it's fun, right?
34:46 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
34:46 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_12]: So the more we go along, though, we don't necessarily chill on that D. Yeah.
34:53 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_12]: The chorus is going to give us something different, right?
34:57 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_12]: So here's the chorus.
34:58 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_12]: You're going to get the F sharp note, not the D, not the B, but in F sharp, which is the third part of the scale.
35:17 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So everything that note they keep hitting is our F-sharp.
35:27 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_12]: And then in the context you hear it emphasize.
35:46 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_12]: the C sharp.
35:47 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
35:48 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
35:48 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_12]: We're starting on D. We go down to B.
35:50 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_12]: We'll sort of up to be an entity F sharp and then reminding us again on that C sharp.
35:57 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_12]: And the chorus is weird because it's negative kind of I won't give these nobody's no sympathy.
36:02 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_12]: I just want to see you win like it's positive but kind of like
36:06 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Again, aggressive a little bit, her was more tender her pre-chorus.
36:10 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, it's like showing a high level of commitment to her, like despite everyone else, like they're creating this whole little world for themselves.
36:17 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, yes, absolutely.
36:18 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So going on, verse three is different because this is a collar response duet.
36:23 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not just Kendrick, it's not just says they're back and forth, and each one of them is on a different note to emphasize.
36:51 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_12]: So we haven't heard either of these notes emphasized, right?
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_12]: She's on the E, which is the second note of the scale.
36:57 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_12]: He's on the A, which is the fifth.
36:58 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Here's what those sound like in the key.
37:03 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_12]: E, A, and together they kind of make an A chord, which is a tense chord in this key.
37:11 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_12]: And so you can hear that chord kind of is what they're outlining against the chord progression, which neither of their notes is in these chords, really.
37:28 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_12]: unique little section.
37:29 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't sound like the other verses where things were just stable on the D the whole time.
37:35 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is the sex verse.
37:37 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_12]: You got the lyrics open?
37:38 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
37:40 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm looking at the G-clap with all these notes.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_12]: You're trying to follow what I'm doing.
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm following what you're doing.
37:44 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you go in out like, yeah, it seems to be not about negative tension, but about what people could describe is a positive act of tension that a couple may engage in.
37:57 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh gosh, yes, yeah, you want to read it.
38:00 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_12]: No, I don't know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
38:24 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know, every day's coming for sure
38:30 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_12]: If it blows up to me, back to the F sharp in the chorus again, which is essentially the same.
38:36 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
38:36 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
38:37 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_12]: We got a journey.
38:38 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_12]: We go from D for a while, then B F sharp, always with the C sharp as our bridge.
38:44 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_12]: And then the next verse is the A and the E and then back to the B and the F sharp, are we ever going to get that D again, right?
38:50 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Here's the bridge.
38:51 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_12]: What do we have in the bridge?
38:53 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_12]: They're not in harmony here.
38:54 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_12]: They're just in octaves.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_12]: They're meaning they're doing the same notes.
38:58 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_12]: One higher one lower, sort of like in the chorus section.
39:01 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_05]: And they're just hitting our C-sharp, the 10th C-sharp note.
39:27 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Why may I not trust you?
39:30 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Why you always your time on time?
39:32 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Just so I can tell you, I'm on make you say
39:35 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_18]: What do you call that when they're singing the same note, but in different octaves?
39:39 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Octave doubling.
39:40 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
39:41 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
39:41 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_12]: That's cool.
39:42 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Generally, you think of like one of them as the often would be this sort of main melody and the other one is filling out emphasizing it by doubling it.
39:49 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_18]: But it is like building a lot of tension.
39:51 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_18]: You're like working towards this like this release.
39:54 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_18]: Like you're building up.
39:55 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
39:55 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_18]: You just need it to.
39:57 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_12]: And obviously, you need it.
39:57 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_12]: We're going to end on that, D. We're going to, we got to resolve, right?
40:00 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_12]: So,
40:01 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_12]: We then, is this even a bridge?
40:04 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Cause a bridge usually brings you back to the chorus, which would be the F sharp, where do we go?
40:09 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_12]: No, we go to this outro, which is this beautiful lush thing I already played, where there is no melody.
40:15 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_12]: There really isn't a melody in this outro.
40:18 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It's this beautiful lush texture, sort of emphasizing the sea sharp because of the way it ends.
40:37 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_15]: world with man.
40:39 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_12]: So we start the song really heavily emphasizing the D. We are stable, we are stable.
40:45 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_12]: This is hip hop, there's one note in the melody, right?
40:48 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_12]: And then we leave it to go to B, F sharp.
40:51 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_12]: We get the sort of maximal tension, maybe in that verse where they're on E and A, and then even more with the bridge on C sharp and then it just ends and we end on, we're mine, the C sharp.
41:03 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_12]: It never goes back to D, it is tense till the very ending.
41:08 --> 41:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Remember when I did the Lithium Nirvana episode, and I did set the radical analysis, there's a version of reality in which I would do what what's called a shankarian analysis to this side.
41:19 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Heinrich Shanker, like he died in the 1930s, is a type of theoretical analysis where you look at like macro trajectory of notes.
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_12]: So like
41:28 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_12]: This hour-long opera is actually just a move from scale degree 3 down to scale degree 1, and you like look at the zoom out kind of levels of harmonic trajectory.
41:38 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_12]: The thing about it is it subverts that because in Shankarian analysis, you're often showing a move towards resolution.
41:46 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_12]: This song is the flip of that.
41:50 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_12]: and we move away from stability, even though they give it that first Luther sample, clues us in that the C sharp is our magic note.
42:00 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_12]: We end on this wordless outro that ends on the Sherylen sample on the C sharp.
42:06 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_12]: We never get an emphatic use of the D anymore.
42:09 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_12]: And even in the video, then then go on and just play the Luther Vandras Sherylen song.
42:15 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_12]: So, how does this all map to the lyrics like, and the story of song?
42:21 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_12]: The clearest part, lyricically, is like the sex verse, and that's like also very tense.
42:27 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know, let's get into what you want to talk about.
42:30 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_12]: I do have some examples of other songs that have this kind of melodic structure, but do we want to talk?
42:35 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I have like a lot of connections to make to everything you explained to like what I'm thinking for this song.
42:57 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_18]: So you were just describing that, you know, we start on this, we're kind of bouncing around this key like with the C sharp as, not a focal point but something that we're, we're kind of circling around the C sharp.
43:09 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_18]: The C sharp is adding tension, but we're not like getting anywhere, we're kind of like going in a circle around it.
43:16 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_18]: And again, I'm really thinking what all the circles in the music video and I've read a lot about how this video was directed and conceived and a lot of it was about creating higher levels of intimacy, creating like a world within itself that these two people are just in and cocooned in.
43:34 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_18]: So this is why you see a lot of circular imagery throughout the entire music video.
43:39 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_18]: You see a lot of elevators rising and falling in this video that are circulating.
43:42 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Listening to the Luther song and an elevator point, the interesting thing to note for those that haven't seen it.
43:48 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_12]: First of all, watch the videos video.
43:50 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's good context.
43:51 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_12]: It really is gorgeous.
43:52 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_12]: It's an honest goodness film.
43:54 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm a director by Karina Evans.
43:56 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_18]: She's a Canadian director and actress.
43:58 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_18]: She's only 30 years old.
44:00 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_18]: She won a lot of awards for this, including a Cleo award and that was one of the NAACP image awards.
44:09 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_18]: She's also directed videos for a lot of Drake stuff, which isn't just okay.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_18]: It's a God's plan.
44:15 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_18]: Nice for one in my feelings.
44:19 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, she's Canadian.
44:20 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_18]: She's from Toronto, and she's like in a similar, you know, she should be trade him with her.
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_12]: So, okay.
44:26 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_18]: How interesting.
44:27 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_12]: The thing about this video that I think's worth pointing out, since it sounds like you're going to use it as a reference point, is like it seems like there are two couples in the video.
44:35 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_12]: There's Kendrick seems to be singing about one person, says that it seems to be singing about a different person.
44:41 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_12]: There's two couples, but they're like singing at each other.
44:44 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_12]: It's really interesting.
44:45 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Like it seems to me like it's not they are not necessarily the romantic pair.
44:50 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, even though the song seems to suggest that, but maybe that's like, hey man, you're like my brother.
44:56 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not kissing you in this music video.
44:58 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_12]: But let's write this love song together and sing this love song together.
45:01 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_12]: But then actually the story of the video is like separate couples that they're singing about at each other.
45:06 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_18]: And I love that.
45:07 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that that speaks to
45:09 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_18]: this stern burger triangular love theory that love comes in different forms and we often culturally think of love as romantic love of like passionate love like sex love and that's not
45:22 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_18]: Always what it is.
45:24 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_12]: So what is the triangular theory?
45:26 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_12]: What would we got?
45:27 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_18]: So picture it a triangle right or done.
45:31 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Awesome success.
45:33 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_18]: And at each like angle of the triangle, we're like, I wish I had a white board.
45:37 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_18]: It would be a lot easier.
45:38 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_18]: We're adding like different types of love.
45:41 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_18]: We're adding labels.
45:42 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_18]: So at the top, we're talking about intimacy at that top point, which is just sharing some liking alone, just liking someone.
45:50 --> 45:50 [UNKNOWN]: Okay.
45:50 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_18]: commitment would be at the one of the points of the triangle, which is just a decision to be with each other.
45:58 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_18]: We have a commitment based love.
46:00 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_18]: We're we've decided to be together for this project, right?
46:03 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_18]: The other side of the triangle would be like a passion based love, which is in maturation, just passion alone.
46:09 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_18]: You could argue that Kendrick and Susan don't have a passion at love, but the people in the song do.
46:16 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_12]: And so their love is intimacy and, and what's the other one?
46:19 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_18]: And commitment.
46:20 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Commitment.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_18]: Right?
46:21 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_18]: And they call that combination.
46:23 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_18]: So again, we've put labels at each point in the different labels.
46:26 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
46:27 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_18]: More labels.
46:27 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_18]: I know.
46:28 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_18]: It's a great for an audio medium.
46:30 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_12]: We're naming heavy metal styles, everybody.
46:33 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_18]: So but you're doing it.
46:34 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_18]: You're like, okay.
46:35 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_18]: Well, if they're like intimacy and commitment, right?
46:39 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_18]: There's a word for that.
46:40 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_18]: And that's called companion it love.
46:42 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_18]: Right, this combination of emotional closeness and a decision to stay together is a companion at love.
46:49 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Can I just say the discord?
46:51 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_12]: People love a good categorization system in our discord community, write and tell us all the people in your life and what category they're.
46:58 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so I think it's really cool.
46:59 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's really cool.
47:01 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's really cool.
47:03 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Equals intimacy plus commitment, right.
47:04 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_18]: And then you have
47:06 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_18]: commitment and passion, which we call fatuous love with commitment put plus without intimacy without intimacy fatuous like infatuation like infatuation okay so like a fatuous love is going to be
47:22 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_18]: a like a world when a quick commitment romance is committed though.
47:26 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_18]: It is committed but it does not have the depth or whatever it does have the depth.
47:29 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_18]: It's like you have a you travel a lot and you have like a boyfriend and a lover and ever since.
47:36 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_12]: It's just interesting.
47:37 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_12]: The lack of intimacy is an interesting frame for that.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
47:40 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_18]: It's just like there's no, you're not like talking about your life.
47:43 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_18]: You're not talking about your feelings.
47:45 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
47:45 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_18]: You're just physical with each other and like you're committed to each other.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
47:48 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_18]: Like you'll always check in if you call me it to in the morning.
47:51 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_12]: I'd like to know.
47:51 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_12]: And the idea is you act.
47:53 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_12]: This is love.
47:53 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_18]: This is love.
47:54 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
47:55 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not just a friend with benefit.
47:57 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Like you love this person.
47:58 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_12]: It's just a different kind of love.
47:59 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_18]: And that's the thing about this theory that I like is we can take all those things that feel really superficial.
48:04 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_18]: There's always a reason like friends with benefits doesn't feel like enough as a label, like a situation ship doesn't feel like enough of a label to honor the relationship.
48:13 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_18]: So this theory is love labels it love, but it's just a different version of love.
48:18 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So that doesn't seem to necessarily be represented in the song.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_18]: No, not really.
48:24 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_18]: You're not seeing that too much.
48:25 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_12]: Because we don't know, there seems like there's a there's an intimacy in song.
48:30 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_18]: And that all the notes of the circle throughout the music video gives me clues to it towards intimacy.
48:37 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_18]: When we talk about like,
48:38 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_18]: wrapping up and protecting the people that are close to us and like caring for them emotionally and protecting them and saying like after everybody else that's me and you or I got your back more than anyone's right that's just a commitment and it's a mismet to me.
48:53 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_18]: So now we've labeled a couple of different versions of like combinations.
48:58 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_18]: We're missing a combination of passion and intimacy.
49:01 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_18]: We call this
49:07 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_18]: So we call that romantic love.
49:09 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
49:09 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
49:10 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_12]: So romantic love.
49:11 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_12]: I was wondering if romantic love is all three.
49:12 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_12]: No, it's the romantic love.
49:15 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_12]: The romance is a heightened emotions of intimacy and heightened emotions of passion without any establishment of a commitment.
49:23 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
49:23 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_12]: So romantic love could exist outside of a relationship.
49:27 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Is it true?
49:28 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
49:28 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_18]: First of all, a romantic love could be like
49:32 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_18]: It's early and you're not coming in.
49:34 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not possibly in this the story here.
49:39 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_18]: It's possibly the characters that we're talking about.
49:41 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_18]: It's especially in that verse that has all been done.
49:45 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, okay.
49:48 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_18]: And in fact, that's why for me, that is kind of like if you just look at the lyrics, that's kind of like an outlier.
49:54 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, because the rest of it has this like I'm going to fight people for you that feels like there's a commitment there like I'm right or die for you right and this verse, the room will call it the romantic verse it kind of makes me blush a little bit and I'm embarrassed a little bit because they've set up a narrative that that's not what this is about like this is about
50:15 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_18]: family and protection and having your back no matter what, but there's also that piece too.
50:20 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_12]: The chorus, if that verse is the romantic love verse, the chorus with the possessiveness or whatever is like commitment and passion, right, which you called.
50:33 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_12]: fatuous fatuous or no, no, maybe that's the I don't know.
50:37 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_12]: There's too much evidence for intimacy in there to the right a lot of evidence But then there's the the pre-chorus with a concrete flowers grow.
50:44 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_12]: There's like a vulnerability there I wonder if that's intimacy and commitment without the passion which you haven't labeled yet No, and the thing commitment without the passion is called companionship
50:55 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
50:56 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I don't know.
50:57 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_18]: I'm missing one thing.
50:58 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_18]: I miss our thing.
50:59 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_12]: I miss our thing.
50:59 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Passion and intimacy.
51:01 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_18]: Passion and intimacy.
51:02 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_18]: We've labeled this romantic love.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_18]: Intimacy.
51:05 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, oh, oh.
51:06 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Intimacy.
51:07 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_18]: We've labeled as companion it love.
51:10 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_12]: And then we have fatuist love.
51:12 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_18]: It's passion and commitment.
51:13 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_18]: So we've got, like, if you look at a triangle, we've labeled all the points of the triangle.
51:17 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
51:17 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_18]: We've labeled the lines of the triangle, the lines between each point.
51:20 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_18]: We haven't labeled the middle of the triangle which is all three of it.
51:25 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
51:25 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Six even which right all six combinations.
51:28 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
51:29 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so which possibly these characters are right.
51:31 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_18]: Possibly these characters are so we would call that consummate love consummate love right and consummate love is a full combination of all three and some people believe is the ideal relationship goal.
51:45 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
51:46 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_18]: I have argument with that as a theory.
51:49 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Interesting.
51:50 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_18]: So.
51:50 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Ideal relationship goal or ideal for lack of better from romantic relationship goal.
51:55 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_18]: Ideal like per like couple in goal.
51:58 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
51:58 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_18]: Like if you were to pick a partner, that partner should provide you according to this model, all three things.
52:05 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_18]: It should provide you intimacy that you can share your feelings.
52:09 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_18]: You can share your emotions.
52:10 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_18]: Safe.
52:11 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_18]: You can feel vulnerable around them.
52:13 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_18]: you can feel hugely committed to them that you would do anything for them at any time and you have their back no matter what, you'd like throw punches for this other person, huge baso press and response, but that's a different podcast.
52:27 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_18]: And then you also feel passion for them, you feel like a physical connection to them and like romantically passion it.
52:33 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, so that sounds right to me.
52:34 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_12]: So what's the catch?
52:36 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_18]: I posit that you need more than one person and I'm not talking with this in like a polyamorous way, but I know that there are things that I get from my friends that I don't get from my partner.
52:51 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_18]: like I know the father or your sister or my daughter or my podcast partner.
52:56 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_18]: Like I know that, right?
52:57 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_18]: There are certain ways that we fill each other's buckets that to put all three on one person seems like a tall order.
53:04 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_12]: So I think actually the real earnest right in request is those of you from other countries or who grew up learning other languages.
53:13 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_12]: To other languages, we have this word
53:18 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_12]: my love for my son and my daughter is the same word as my love for my wife.
53:24 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_12]: And it's the same word as my love for my mom and dad.
53:26 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_12]: It's the same word as my love for you.
53:28 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
53:29 --> 53:46 [SPEAKER_12]: But are there other languages that actually just flat out have a different because this beautiful triangle you're describing, I think is really great to describe what I sort of would have colloquial thought of like romantic love like coupling like the possible dynamics like, oh, this is a married couple, but they don't have passion, but they still man.
53:46 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_12]: They're still right or die for each other.
53:48 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, they still will fight, but like they just lost, but it doesn't work when I'm talking about my love for my kids, there's no passion in my love for my kids, but there's an intense like other thing that isn't necessarily as true for my love for my your love for kids most is mostly a commitment race love.
54:04 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_12]: But there might also be things that aspects to love that happen in the parental relationship or a friend relationship that aren't necessarily prized assets in your, like the ways that I love my kids would be profoundly inappropriate in my relationship.
54:20 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_12]: In the sense of like, that sense of protection and the sense of I'm going to teach them
54:26 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_12]: wife.
54:26 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_12]: I know you sometimes listen to this podcast and maybe learning something.
54:29 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_12]: But if the goal of this podcast was to teach you, that would be really fucked up, right?
54:35 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_12]: So, but my kids, it's like, I want to help them be better people.
54:38 --> 54:44 [SPEAKER_12]: And that is a type of love that is not appropriate for my dad with me.
54:44 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_18]: If you like told your wife to put a jacket on, it's cold outside or
54:49 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_18]: This is what where you're having it nagging.
54:52 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_18]: This is what you're having for dinner tonight.
54:54 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_18]: Like that's different.
54:56 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_12]: It wouldn't work Those are aspects to love.
54:58 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and so we need a different word.
55:00 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_18]: We need a different word.
55:01 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_12]: But there's something about the relationship between SZA and Kendrick and the relationship between SZA and Kendrick's characters, whereas the overlap in that term love is kind of helpful.
55:13 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_12]: informative and beautiful because they have and then the video they've like hired these other actors to play the actual like hot and heavy.
55:20 --> 55:27 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to stare lustily at this person's physical form and it doesn't have to be them because it's like we're just buddies.
55:27 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
55:28 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
55:28 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_18]: It would really work.
55:30 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_18]: It would feel as a viewer you wouldn't I will want to see them hugging kiss because they feel like brother and sister in the way that they interact with each other.
55:38 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't want that.
55:39 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_12]: There aren't a lot of love duets where in the music video showing that love duet, where it's the two artists like hitting it off.
55:47 --> 55:58 [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like there's often a subject, they use a separate character to do that, a proxy, because like, very much they're performing, they're acting the role of I am in love with you.
55:58 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_12]: famous other person, you know, Ed Sheeran, I am in love with you in the song says Taylor Swift, but like, they're not making out in that video.
56:07 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
56:07 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_18]: Sheeran and Taylor Swift, companion it love.
56:11 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_18]: They care about each other.
56:12 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_18]: They're committed to each other.
56:13 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_18]: They're intimate with each other, but they're not romantic.
56:16 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
56:17 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_18]: And.
56:17 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_18]: I think these collaborations often are probably out here, right, except when and we talked about some collaborations that you said earlier, like it doesn't count because they're married, but I think in those partnerships when you look at Jay-Z and Beyonce's collaboration, you do see them display romantic love in videos and maybe the way they hands with the lyrics through each other because it becomes more appropriate as a married couple to display that type of love in our society.
56:44 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
56:44 --> 56:45 [SPEAKER_18]: Because if
56:45 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_18]: Kendrick and Susa displayed romantic love.
56:47 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_18]: Kendrick's been engaged to the same woman since 2013, like since his like, horizons started.
56:52 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_18]: They're not married, but they've been together a long time.
56:54 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_18]: He probably doesn't like want any rumors out there.
56:58 --> 57:02 [SPEAKER_18]: You know, he doesn't want like fan any rumors because he seems like a person of character.
57:03 --> 57:32 [SPEAKER_18]: Right, so that's what I, I'm interested in love songs, like this one, that you can really separate the romantic love from the focusing the song and that's something that I think makes the song like kind of fit in the arc and the narrative of love songs like we see this a lot, but there's something different about this one and I think it does speak back to their consistent collaboration that we know that they're intimate with each other and we know that it's really high level of respect in that relationship.
57:32 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_18]: that if they got involved in a romantic love, it would feel different to us as listeners.
57:38 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_18]: So I love this theory.
57:39 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_18]: Sternberg has a ton of really great theories out there.
57:41 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that these ideas of labeling different types of love kind of gives us permission to just love more people in different ways.
57:49 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm pro that just as part of the human experience.
57:52 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Paul, let's talk about love more in a future pot.
57:54 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I feel like I got like a dopamine boost by talking.
57:57 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not it's not it's satisfying and it's satisfying despite and this song is satisfying despite it going from attention perspective in the direction of a lack of resolution, it's just it's there's a beauty to that.
58:09 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_12]: And there's a beauty to the ambiguity of the relationship they're describing here.
58:13 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_12]: It's it's very solid and obvious in certain ways.
58:15 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a sex verse.
58:16 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_12]: There's I'm gonna fight them for you.
58:18 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_12]: But like what's the real message?
58:22 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_12]: And that is like emphasized by this melodic trajectory.
58:26 --> 58:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Can I, I know, no, we got to wrap it up.
58:28 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_12]: Can I give a couple of other examples of songs?
58:30 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_12]: So artists, famous for their collaborations, I'm pulling some examples from them, just for the sake of limiting my options.
58:38 --> 58:40 [SPEAKER_12]: So this is out of the woods.
58:40 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Taylor Swift from 1989, which means from 2014.
58:44 --> 58:55 [SPEAKER_12]: The first chills aren't we're in the key of C. The verse chills on the E and the D, but then when we get to the chorus, we have just the C, the tonic note as they call it.
58:55 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_10]: Here's the verse.
59:16 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So start's E then move to D and then we finally settle on C.
59:34 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_12]: right and that one gives us the trajectory that's more common which is less stable moving towards stability okay our other collaborator Nicki Minaj we heard her this time collaborating with David Gettah turn me on from 2011 key of C here's the verse which gives us the C
01:00:03 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_12]: When we get to the pre-chorus, we're now emphasizing F and G. And then when we get to the chorus, it's back to C, but this time, it's the higher C, more emphatic, more solid, strong.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I love Nicki Minaj a little journey.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, she sounds good.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_12]: She sounds good rapping.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:41 [SPEAKER_18]: She sounds good singing like and she's I she plays like a case.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_18]: She's like a caricature.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_18]: I think sure.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_12]: I think stylistically she goes there.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_18]: I like that.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:48 [SPEAKER_18]: I think that there's a place for it.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's cool.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe we'll come back.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Last example, Ariana Grande, who we previously heard with Nicki Minaj, this is no tears left to cry from 2018.
01:00:58 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Key of A minor.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Here's the verse.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:14 [SPEAKER_06]: We have the emphasis of the B, the second note in the scale.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_12]: And then in the chorus, we have the high sea again, and the A.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_12]: But then she ends the chorus on the east, so it's like she hits the more stable notes for the beginning, and then ends on a more tense note at the end of the chorus.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I think that they're all doing the same thing, but they're not doing it like Kendrick, like I think that he's just on another level for everything.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_12]: So I've got to do the shin carry in analysis, right?
01:01:53 --> 01:01:54 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a long term.
01:01:54 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's like they're just like scratching the surface and he's like giving a master class on how to do this.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_06]: And cool.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_18]: I think he's doing it with intention and masterfully.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:12 [SPEAKER_18]: laying lyrics on top of really, really strong musicality that is just, is fascinating.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:15 [SPEAKER_18]: It's awesome to be alive at the same time as Kendrick Lamar.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_18]: I'll say that.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think we can end there.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_12]: I listeners, I'm 10 minutes late for a online training that I'm supposed to be attending, so I think that's the best time to wrap it.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_18]: I have a advising meeting in 15 minutes.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_12]: I might do it for a weekend.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
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