Why write both a melody and a chord progression when just one will do? Here our hosts follow along with the 1978 punk anthem “One Way or Another” by Blondie. Mark marvels at the simplicity and unity between the song’s tune and chords, while Nichole wonders if the modern world has lost all its toughness. And, Mark declares war on all Baby Boomers (or something).
Other music heard in this episode: Blondie - “X Offender”, Blondie - “Heart of Glass”, Blondie - “Rapture”, Blondie - “The Tide is High”, Blondie - “Maria”, Bobby McFerrin - “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)”, Hildegard von Bingen - “Ave Generosa”, Handel - “‘Lascia ch’io Pianga”, Pearl Jam - “Better Man”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know that it was just like on the greatest hits album that my girlfriend had.
00:03 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I was really into Bob Dylan in nineteen ninety nine.
00:06 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really figuring it out.
00:08 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_08]: Bob Dylan, the blondie of the fluffy folk music.
00:11 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
00:11 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm Mark.
00:24 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is never mind the music.
00:26 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure is.
00:28 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
00:30 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_08]: She's laughing because this is our second try starting this episode because we are talking about blondie and their original name was angel in the snake and then that send us on this weird biblical studies rant let's just start over we're talking about one way or another by blondie
00:52 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll slip on a hip.
01:07 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, that was she says.
01:08 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm not.
01:11 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_08]: So real quick, before we're not really going to get into it, but just before I forget, rest in peace to Clemberg, Blondie's longtime drummer who died of cancer in twenty twenty five, April of twenty twenty five.
01:23 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_08]: So less than a year ago.
01:25 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, are you a fan of Blondie?
01:28 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I love what Blondie stands for.
01:30 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she's an icon for women and girls to be powerful, but I'm not like an expert on her music or their music.
01:39 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Just not.
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_08]: They're a music.
01:41 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
01:41 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_08]: They're a band, but they, you know, the band is clearly named in some way after.
01:46 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not quite the Dave Matthews band, but it's like blondie and the blondies or whatever.
01:52 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_08]: It's like a nickname or whatever I guess.
01:54 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_08]: I love this song though.
01:56 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_08]: This song's good.
01:56 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I love this song.
01:57 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_08]: I like blondie a lot.
01:59 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_08]: One thing that we're actually we've got a guest to talk a little bit about things related to this next week.
02:05 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Nice.
02:06 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Blondie being a punk band.
02:09 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_08]: and how the definition of punk changes by era and by context.
02:14 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
02:15 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you like, before I said that out loud, does it make sense to you to think a blondie is punk?
02:21 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of does when you put them in a timeline, like the time and place.
02:29 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: that this music was created was like, antithetical of what you would expect from a blonde female, and that feels punk to me, like counter culture.
02:40 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Right, because she's like a rock, like sort of sloppy vocals.
02:47 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_08]: She's it's interesting though, because she's like extremely beautiful women made to look extremely beautiful.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_08]: So she's not
02:53 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_02]: subverting that really like the name fits with the image on some level she's like stereotypically pretty and beautiful and polished and has grit right and when I think of punk I think of grit right and blondie has grit
03:09 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you're, you're totally right, but so does Janis Joplin, right?
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_08]: She has two, right?
03:14 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of grit.
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: This Janis Joplin punk?
03:17 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_08]: No.
03:18 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Janis Joplin would be like acid rock or blues rock, right?
03:22 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Psychedelic rock.
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_08]: It's earlier also, right?
03:24 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_08]: But Patty Smith group is considered punk, even though she's basically spoken word poet with music.
03:32 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, she's seeing sometimes too, but
03:34 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Part of what I'm getting at here, and we can talk more about this in our sidetrack with our guest, is a lot of this has to do with the scene, really.
03:43 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_08]: So like if you think of the, do you know the club CBGB in New York City, country bluegrass blues, I think is what it stands for.
03:51 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm trying to remember, but a club, iconic club in New York City that started out playing country and folk and stuff and ended up
04:00 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_08]: this home base, along with some other clubs of the early punks.
04:04 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_08]: And really it was the scene.
04:05 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_08]: It was these bands, the Ramones, television, and later Richard Helm, the Voidoids.
04:12 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_08]: The talking heads were considered, they were in that scene and they were also punk.
04:16 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_08]: And if you listen to like psycho pillar, like early stuff, it's very punky, but Patty Smith's spoken word, blondie.
04:22 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of these bands are what we would later call new wave.
04:25 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_08]: but back then the term punk was just used to represent the scene in the same way that like you would be more likely to see Iron and Wine if people know Iron and Wine at a indie rock festival then you would a country festival even though like musically it's very Americana right there's the vibe and the scene associated at least as I understand Iron and Wine so these bands were all labeled punk but they all sound so different
04:54 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, when it's like what we think of now is punk is sort of almost like you take the Ramones and that turns into punk.
05:00 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Ramones and then what was happening in the UK, not the clash because that was also very different.
05:04 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_08]: But the sex pistols and then the Ramones is more inspirational to the sound of what punk would become than what the Patty Smith group was doing.
05:14 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
05:14 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking of like the lineage of punk a year people aren't going to put blondie on that path.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_08]: But they are just not musically in the same way.
05:23 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Now, some of their music like this song is kind of punk.
05:29 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_08]: But even when you hear there early as singles, they're doing something different.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_08]: They're more poppy.
05:34 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_08]: They're more, again, what we would eventually start calling new wave.
05:38 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's their first single, ex-offender.
05:46 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_07]: I know you wouldn't go You watch my heart best and it's different I had to know so I You just had to laugh
06:02 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to challenge you a little bit.
06:04 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if you swapped out the female vocals for a male vocal that had a lot of vocal fry and you sped it up a little bit, this would be a punk song.
06:16 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm saying it is a punk song.
06:18 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah.
06:19 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just our definitions of that have morphed.
06:22 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
06:23 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_08]: So like, I would say also you take out the Farfee's organ.
06:26 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
06:27 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But we're just there losing the organ.
06:29 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_08]: New wave sort of is is like the punk energy and the punk vibe, but with more poppy vocals and more keyboards and kind of more of the kind of corkiness that you get in like talking heads, right?
06:42 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
06:42 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think of like bands like the B-fifty twos, right?
06:46 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
06:46 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Whereas punk, you know, is that core simplicity driving beat, sort of rough vocals.
06:54 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, but what you're describing almost is new wave, you're like, well, take this out in that and then it's punk.
06:59 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm like, well, yeah, that's what makes it later retrospectively people start calling that new wave.
07:04 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_08]: But like the writing at the time, the like people writing about the scene were just calling them a punk band.
07:10 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this kind of like the fork in the road between punk and new wave?
07:13 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think they start out the same and it's only later that people start, you know, and then there's post-punk and all that too.
07:19 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Who would you put in like the new wave lane?
07:22 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_02]: B-fifty twos.
07:23 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
07:24 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Who else would you put in the pile of new wave music?
07:27 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_02]: We have the B-fifty twos, but who else lives there?
07:31 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_08]: Right, it's tough because so many of them are ones that also, I would say, started out as being able to punk bands.
07:37 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_08]: So like, you could say Devo.
07:40 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_08]: But Devo happens at the same era.
07:42 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_08]: They're like mid-seventies also when they start.
07:44 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_08]: So were they?
07:45 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, they're like, oh, hi, I was a version of punk sort of new way talking heads also when you think of like their later albums, like remain in light or whatever, not later albums.
07:53 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_08]: They're following albums after the, in the early eighties, I would say,
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_08]: in a lot of the police.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
08:01 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Consider some of the early stuff is more new wave.
08:05 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Part of the problem is like also some of these bands overlap into synth pop and things like that have a future perspective to go back and assign them.
08:15 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, like vinyl, men at work.
08:18 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Are they a new wave band kind of?
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_08]: But they also have other elements in there too.
08:23 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_08]: Almost all the bands that I would consider new wave also overlap with other genres, which is part of what's confusing about it.
08:30 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, new order.
08:32 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Are they new romantics or are they new wave?
08:36 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Aha, they're a new wave band, but are they synth pop band?
08:39 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
08:39 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Wingo, boingo.
08:40 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I would say is new wave, but are they also something totally different from that?
08:44 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_02]: The culture club is probably new wave, but also like pop pop.
08:48 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
08:48 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_08]: And so a lot of what this is is kind of representative of the vagueness here and the confusingness of these terms.
08:56 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
08:57 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_08]: And also the use, uselessness of these terms, but
09:00 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_08]: new way of needs to have some kind of a punk energy with some kind of quirkiness or some kind of also accessibility, right?
09:07 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not just experimental.
09:09 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_08]: It's got to have like a catchy hook or a funky board synth pop, right?
09:13 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of feel like when I think of new wave, I think of like punk with a p-wee Herman vibe layered on it.
09:20 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, is that maybe that's wrong, but maybe that's totally right.
09:23 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what I think it's like more late eighties, right?
09:26 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think right, maybe.
09:27 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But just that kind of like performance art.
09:30 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like layered on top of it.
09:32 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it's some of these bands like Devo started as essentially as a performance art project.
09:38 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, punk is really a bass.
09:40 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Forking the road for me is like punk doesn't maybe they are performative in some way, but it seems much gridier where new wave seems like it's polished on purpose.
09:48 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It's theatrical in a way that's mindful and purposeful.
09:52 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And punk seems more of a lifestyle than like a performance choice.
09:59 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make any sense?
10:00 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it does, but
10:02 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, or like Elvis Costello, the another guy that I would consider in some of that stuff.
10:05 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a character in New York to it.
10:08 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: For me.
10:09 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I forgot what I was gonna say.
10:10 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It was about P. We Herman.
10:11 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You seem like you were a P. We Herman fan.
10:14 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I liked P. We's Playhouse.
10:15 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_08]: I liked P. Dude.
10:16 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Large, large, scared the shit out of me when we were little.
10:20 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_08]: You remember, P.V.s Big Adventure?
10:22 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
10:23 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_08]: The scene where the woman turns into a monster in the car.
10:25 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I just rewatched all of it because of the documentary.
10:28 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's still scary because it's scary.
10:29 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like I rewatch that stuff, especially P.V.s Playhouse and think no wonder.
10:37 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: our generation is the way we are.
10:38 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember.
10:40 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_08]: I was so little watching.
10:41 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I barely remember.
10:42 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You watch it is like a fever dream.
10:44 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Like no wonder we're so freaking.
10:47 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I loved it, but I don't remember much about it.
10:48 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_02]: You need to rewatch it and the documentary that he had more recently was very good when we talk about this performance art of it all because
10:56 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:57 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he was a performance artist.
10:58 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
10:59 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
10:59 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He owned anything else and that's how he quantifies himself.
11:03 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's really interesting to see like behind the scenes of it all.
11:06 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think of new wave and I think of that performance artist piece that that is incorporate more with how I quantify new wave versus punk.
11:14 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, one of the things that I do in my, when I teach the rock history class at my college is all posed the question.
11:21 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_08]: If we think of the other things that were invented in the late seventies and early eighties based on punk, like if punk led to new wave, but also led to hardcore punk, which one of those two styles that are embodied the punk spirit, right?
11:37 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just interesting because like on the one hand, well, new wave was punk, like these bands were called punk at that at the time.
11:43 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_08]: It was only later that blondie started being called new wave, right?
11:46 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_08]: But yet that kind of rawness, maybe the hardcore punk coming out of LA and the East Coast or whatever a few years later is more capturing of that spirit.
11:54 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just kind of an interesting, there's kind of no right answer, which is
11:58 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Why I asked the question.
12:01 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So dichotomous.
12:02 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
12:03 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Critical thinking skills.
12:05 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a genetic course.
12:07 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_08]: Point being though, blondies music is all over the place in a good way.
12:10 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_08]: They have so many different styles, essentially they're playing with from the punky stuff we've been hearing to essentially.
12:16 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I would say kind of disco.
12:18 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's heart of glass from
12:30 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Following in the disco thing, but adding... wrapping.
12:33 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
12:34 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_08]: You know Rapture.
12:35 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know this song.
12:50 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I talked in a previous episode about how you used to work at a magic store and there was like a soundtrack that like, and this song was on the soundtrack to that.
12:58 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, I moaned a little bit because it's just like, oh, I can't.
13:02 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Take you back.
13:02 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Did you know this is the first song with rap to hit number one?
13:06 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it rap again?
13:07 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_08]: She's rapping.
13:08 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_02]: She's rapping.
13:09 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_08]: Debbie Harry's awesome.
13:10 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think she's great rapper.
13:12 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I will say though what this what this that tells us obviously a lot about society and the culture in nineteen seventy nine when that song or a nineteen eighty when that song came out.
13:24 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_08]: It also does illustrate how mixed up this scene was, right?
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_08]: How diverse these bands were.
13:29 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_08]: But also like, remember when we talked about the SNL documentary?
13:33 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
13:33 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_08]: They talked about she advocated so hard to get the funky four plus one on SNL in that team.
13:37 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Anyone like the punks were into the hip hop, the hip hop.
13:41 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It was like love guys were into the punk music.
13:44 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_08]: It was the whole scene was just like anything that was kind of anti-establishment.
13:49 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in that same breath, could you say that rap is punk?
13:55 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
13:56 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
13:56 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_02]: If you think of grit, counter culture, totally breaking the norms, it meets those criteria.
14:03 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a band diagram of like, what is punk?
14:05 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't wait to like deep dive into it.
14:07 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, we will.
14:08 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_08]: But before we get into this song, just more, this is how different this band keeps sounding, their cover of John Holtz, rock steady, classic, the tide is high.
14:30 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I had no clue that that was blinding.
14:32 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_08]: You know that version, yeah.
14:35 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, that was a hit though.
14:36 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_08]: For sure.
14:37 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_02]: It's popular.
14:39 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_08]: other artists show us the connection between the punk and the new wave in the right way like I mentioned the police that's obviously there to that whole two-tone era in Britain of Scott and all that but yeah that's blondie and the this is your I just found out moment yeah this uh-huh moment good new waves in pop in
15:00 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_08]: And to me, it's this song, I can, I really discovered Blondie and not at all as a kid.
15:05 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Like I heard the songs, but when I started like listening to Blondie or like friends would have Blondie on, I was in high school is really when it was.
15:12 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_08]: So late nineties and this song comes out and I was the other day years old when I realized this song is from nineteen ninety nine.
15:20 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I thought this was just classic era late seventies or eighties Blondie.
15:37 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I've never heard that song before.
15:38 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_08]: You never heard Maria.
15:39 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_08]: So this was pretty well played radio song in nineteen ninety-nine.
15:44 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_08]: When I was in production with my modern year, I'm like, yeah, that doesn't sound like the seventies of the eighties.
15:49 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know that it was just like on the greatest hits album that my girlfriend had.
15:53 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I was really into Bob Dylan in nineteen ninety nine, so I'm really figuring it out.
15:57 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Bob Dylan, the blondie of the movie.
16:00 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
16:01 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe, yeah.
16:02 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_08]: Kind of punk, right?
16:03 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of punk, even now he's pretty punk.
16:06 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I don't even want your Nobel Prize come and find me.
16:09 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, dude, dude.
16:10 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't even find him.
16:12 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, real.
16:12 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_02]: They wanted him to know what price he was like, no thanks.
16:15 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The Nobel Prize for like writing or something.
16:18 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Not the Pulitzer or something.
16:19 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know something, but like it was something fancy.
16:21 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Something foundational metal of honor.
16:23 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Something he was like, nah, they couldn't even find a address to send it to him.
16:27 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's even he's a still alive, right?
16:30 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he sure.
16:31 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_08]: So this song, one way or another in a long line of seventies and eighties stalker songs.
16:38 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_08]: This is based on her experience with an ex-boyfriend who was stalking here in the early seventies.
16:44 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Long tradition being, you know, every breath you take.
16:46 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:47 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.
16:47 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Private eyes.
16:49 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_08]: I, uh, hollin' notes, right?
16:51 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Probably some other ones that maybe I don't know about.
16:54 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_08]: The music of this tune that was written by Nigel Harrison, who's the bass player in Blondie.
16:58 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_08]: Cool.
16:58 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_08]: On their third album, I'm just going through the data, although not data like our Mariah episode, data.
17:04 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Nineteen seventy-eight's parallel lines.
17:06 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Does this feel like one of their biggest hits to you?
17:08 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
17:09 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
17:10 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_08]: They have four songs that hit number one, and this is not one of them, right?
17:13 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So this one hit twenty four, which, you know, it's more punk, more rock, right?
17:17 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:17 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_08]: Hard to glass.
17:18 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:18 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Which came out before this.
17:20 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
17:21 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Wait, didn't I say hard to glass with ninety-seveny-nine?
17:23 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
17:23 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_08]: I need to check my data, everybody, my data.
17:25 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Come on.
17:27 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Hard to glass, and oh, I think the single came out in nineteen seventy-nine, but that's why it came out.
17:31 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:32 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Hard to glass, hit number one, call me, didn't play that one.
17:37 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Number one, the tie to sigh, which we played and rapture, which we played.
17:40 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_08]: So this is their fifth biggest song.
17:43 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_08]: But I would say maybe like, I know it's not, there's signature song, probably in the sense that it's the one everybody wants to hurt the concert.
17:52 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_08]: But if you ask me to describe what Blondie sounds like, I think it's this.
17:56 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like iconic Blondie to me.
17:58 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_08]: It's something about the band rocking as hard as they rock and rocking as hard as she rocks, but the rest.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_02]: So catch you stuff.
18:06 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Because when you play the other blondie songs and like, oh, it seems so sterile to me.
18:10 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, she's something though, but yeah, it doesn't have some of this.
18:15 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So what do I want to talk about with this?
18:17 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I want to talk about the melody and its relationship to the harmony.
18:21 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
18:23 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_08]: So normally, when we have a piece of music, the chords suggest what notes the melody should be using.
18:30 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_08]: So for example, if we have a C major chord, the notes in that are CE and G,
18:36 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Your melody is going to play a lot of C, a lot of E, a lot of G, but also do some other things.
18:41 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not bound to those notes.
18:44 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_08]: It's informed by the notes, but the rhythms and the actual specific notes you play are independent and free.
18:51 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_08]: You don't have to sing C if the chord is C. You don't have to sing F if the chord is F, right?
18:58 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just, you know, F is important to you if the chord is F, right?
19:02 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's an example.
19:03 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go back to Heart of Glass.
19:04 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_08]: I just want you to listen to the bass and the chords.
19:07 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Try to see if you can hear the chord progression moving and also just recognize that the melody is doing its own thing.
19:14 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, in a way that fits nicely with the chords.
19:25 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Many of the notes she's singing are in the chords, but some of them aren't.
19:27 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_08]: They're what we call non harmonic tones, right?
19:30 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_08]: It's free, right?
19:31 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_08]: And there's pauses where there's a few beats of rest, where there's no melody at all, right?
19:36 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:37 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
19:38 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_08]: So now as contrast, let's look at what happens in one way or another.
19:42 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_08]: First, let's get our handle on what the chords are, what the band is doing from most of this song.
19:47 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll play the intro.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_08]: punk with keyboards, right?
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_08]: The bass player's so good.
20:11 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, Nigel.
20:12 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_08]: He's rocking.
20:13 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds great.
20:13 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he sounds great.
20:15 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I never like pulled out the bass in these songs before today.
20:18 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh, it's really good.
20:19 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Need to play it on rock band or guitar hero.
20:21 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, just because you said that he wrote it and I was like, what's his deal?
20:24 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_08]: You came over the cool little baseline, and that's that.
20:26 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_08]: So this song though, this, this is the main, I could call this the refrain section of the song.
20:32 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Two chords, D, B. And there's what we call passing chords in between, but they're sort of just for fun, right?
20:38 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Dumb, but uh, um, right?
20:41 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_08]: They don't matter.
20:42 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Really, it's just two chords.
20:43 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_08]: They just sort of fill in the space.
20:45 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_08]: So what's the melody that they put on top of that?
20:49 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_08]: What does Debbie sing?
20:55 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Any thoughts?
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_02]: She's totally following the court.
21:05 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_08]: She's noodling a bit, but she's basically if the baseline goes dumb, um, but uh, uh, she's basically one way or another.
21:11 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:11 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm gonna find a, uh, dad, uh, she's doing a, you know, one way or a note.
21:17 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_08]: She's moving around, but she is, she is the court progression.
21:20 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_08]: The melody is the court progression.
21:23 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_08]: and that's not that common actually kind of weird on some level but it's fun and part of what makes it fun is the rhythm right it's exciting it's energetic her tone is exciting and energetic also and like she's like
21:38 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_02]: sounds so cheesy, but she's like one with the band.
21:41 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like in-step with the band and really connected.
21:43 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And that synthesis is really intriguing, like to be so connected with your music.
21:49 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It works.
21:50 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_08]: They go even further if we go to the section of the song that I would call the middle eight.
21:55 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a little less rhythmically exciting, but she's basically singing the chord progression.
22:13 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like more like on the nose to me, it's her like, it sounds like someone else is singing tours that just be.
22:19 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, there's like a low male voice singing down the octave.
22:23 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_08]: So the chords go G B A F sharp.
22:25 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And she's singing G B C sharp F sharp.
22:29 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_08]: So the only time she's not just singing the chord name is for that third chord.
22:34 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_08]: And this is a little more on the nose because the rhythm isn't funky anymore.
22:37 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just a chord chord chord chord.
22:41 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Just like blondie.
22:43 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I do.
22:44 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, maybe I sound like the dude in the background.
22:45 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of grit in your voice though.
22:47 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I can get it.
22:48 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
22:49 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_08]: You should just wait till the album comes out.
22:51 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_08]: It's almost done.
22:52 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_08]: It's almost done.
22:53 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't get it low though.
22:54 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_08]: I've got it.
22:54 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_08]: She's got it when she's growling.
22:56 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I get it if I'm screaming.
22:58 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to be promoting your band more on the podcast.
23:00 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like people are going to tell me I need to promote my band less on the podcast.
23:04 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we talk more about Dream Hydro than we do what's like a demo.
23:07 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
23:07 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_08]: Dream Hydro recipes.
23:09 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I guess.
23:09 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:10 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wait.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm waiting for the comeback.
23:12 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
23:12 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
23:12 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah.
23:13 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
23:14 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe Mark.
23:14 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Mark asshole right in again.
23:15 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
23:17 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_08]: So rate.
23:18 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
23:33 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Does this work?
23:34 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, is it boring what she's doing?
23:37 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Or is it awesome?
23:38 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's awesome.
23:39 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't you think?
23:40 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_08]: So this kind of thing in principle, I kind of think sucks.
23:45 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I associate this technique for what my high school pop punk, Scott Punk band did, which is like, we came up with a cool core progression and we couldn't come up with a good melody.
23:54 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_08]: So we just sang that core progression.
23:56 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_08]: But it works in the song for some reason.
23:59 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_08]: It works in the song.
24:00 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's interesting to me.
24:02 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, uh, the Slacademics, SlacademicBand.com, maybe.
24:07 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_08]: Slacademicspan on Instagram.
24:09 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you have the back column.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think.
24:11 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Slacademicspan should do this in one of their songs.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Sing in the core progression more.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:18 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I, okay.
24:20 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_08]: That sounds great, Nicole.
24:22 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_08]: But I have been mixing and working on this album for like so long.
24:26 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's the thing, people.
24:27 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_08]: When you self produce your own album and when you do the engineering and the mixing and all that, I'm really proud of we're so close to being done.
24:35 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_08]: But what it's meant is for over a year, I've been working on this one album and we can't write new music into the old music.
24:40 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_08]: I can't write new songs.
24:42 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_08]: I have song, I do.
24:43 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I would love to write a blondie in Sparks.
24:44 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_08]: I have a song in my head, people.
24:47 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_08]: But when I get it, I think I've mentioned this on the pot.
24:48 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_08]: I have to stick it in the back of my head and say, chill out, dude.
24:52 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_08]: You've got a lot of work to do still.
24:54 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_08]: It's like almost there.
24:55 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're right in music.
24:57 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Ideas come at you quickly.
24:58 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_02]: You're an idea person.
24:59 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard.
25:00 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It must be hard because you're also a perfectionist.
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And you want your album to be perfect.
25:04 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe it never will be.
25:05 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_02]: But you just have to like put it on the shelf one day.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_08]: The reason it's okay, though.
25:09 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_08]: is that I used to worry, if I don't keep doing it, what if the next time I try to write a song, it won't be there.
25:15 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_08]: We have the next time I try to write an orchestra piece, it won't be there.
25:18 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I have learned that I'll be able to do it again.
25:21 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the next time all, it's like this band.
25:23 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_08]: When was the last time I wrote a pop song?
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, they came easy.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm happy with my songs.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_08]: It was exciting again.
25:29 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not worried.
25:30 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_08]: that spending all my time doing music producing and podcasting when it comes time when I finally let myself write it another song a new song for the band or for a commission or whatever.
25:42 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not worried about it.
25:43 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's so nice because that used to be a real fear.
25:46 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you've developed like a certain level of creative resilience that you know that it's always going to live inside you no matter what.
25:53 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_08]: What is the, so what's happening musically here?
25:56 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_08]: There's sort of two ways, if you remember when we talked about kiss from a rose that was like, this is either minor using a Piccadilly third or this is major with borrowed chords and mode mixture.
26:07 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_08]: There's sort of two ways we can explain what Blondie's doing in this song.
26:11 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_08]: And one of them is by saying this is an example of what we call monophony.
26:15 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, you may remember listeners, when we did our three part series on music reading, we talked about texture, texture is the layers of instruments and voices and how they interact.
26:28 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_08]: So we didn't talk through all the terms, but we gave a few examples and one of them, the most common in pop music is what we call homophony.
26:35 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I understand it.
26:37 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_02]: We make sense when you know the roots.
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Right, homo the same.
26:40 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_08]: It's when everybody's playing together.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_08]: So like a uniform accompaniment.
26:45 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_08]: The chords are being played and the singer is singing with the chords is one type of homophony.
26:51 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_08]: Another type of homophony is when like everybody sings the same words at the same time.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_08]: But take a listen.
26:56 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_08]: We'll back up.
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_08]: This is Maria.
26:57 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_08]: This is an example of homophony in the pop song sense.
27:13 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm confused.
27:15 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_02]: How often is when everyone sings the same stuff?
27:19 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_08]: There's two definitions of homophony that are used the same term, but slightly different.
27:26 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_08]: One of them is if you have a choir and everyone's saying, Alleluia together on different ways, making a beautiful chord.
27:33 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_08]: That's textbook, homophonic texture.
27:36 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
27:37 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_08]: But we tend to also use homophony as a description for sort of a song texture, which is a uniform unified accompaniment with a melody.
27:48 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So if everyone, if, how often is one definition, everyone's singing the same stuff, what is monophony?
27:53 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Because that seems like everyone would be everyone's singing the same thing.
27:56 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone's singing actually the same thing.
27:59 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So not like harmonically the same thing.
28:01 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_08]: But like literally the same thing is everybody making like barbershop music or like the Beatles harmonies.
28:08 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes sense.
28:09 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_08]: Where you've got different notes that fit well together.
28:12 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_08]: monophonic texture is one thing happening.
28:16 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_08]: So this goes way.
28:17 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It must be a hard thing for young learners to understand the difference between the two.
28:23 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it?
28:23 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you find it hard to teach this or do people most people just kind of get it?
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you have to hear it together.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
28:30 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Let's hear it together.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_08]: So here's an example of
28:33 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_08]: I just play you an example of the song, texture, colloquial, second definition of homophony.
28:39 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_08]: But maybe let me pull up an example.
28:43 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll stay with choir.
28:45 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Let me give you an example of the version of homophony that puts people on different notes on the same rhythm.
28:51 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_08]: This is a sort of choir piece of vocal piece, but it's all Bobby McFaren.
28:55 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_08]: It's called the twenty-third song dedicated to my mother.
28:58 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_08]: He's seeing the same words at the same rhythm, different notes, homophony.
29:13 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: She makes me light down in green bed halls.
29:20 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides the still warm.
29:29 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_02]: That's beautiful.
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure is, isn't it?
29:31 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
29:31 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's an example.
29:32 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Compare that to this, which is very old piece, an example of what we call monophony, where there's instead of everybody singing together, but singing different notes.
29:43 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_08]: It's everybody singing together, the same notes.
29:45 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it?
29:48 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_08]: This is Hildegard von Bingen, who is a, was a, a nun.
29:53 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Hildi.
29:54 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_08]: Hildi, yeah, Hildi.
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_08]: This is Twelfth Century.
29:57 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_08]: This is performed by Oxford, Colorado.
30:00 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_08]: All the singers are seeing exactly the same pitch.
30:02 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And listeners, just for clarity, this wasn't recorded in the Twelfth Century.
30:05 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_08]: We've had some confusion in the past with that.
30:08 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
30:31 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds so uniform.
30:36 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It is totally different.
30:38 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
30:39 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds so uniform also because they're blending perfectly.
30:42 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Like you could do it.
30:43 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to get into heteropheny, but there's ways.
30:46 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Think like everybody's singing happy birthday.
30:48 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_08]: That's called heterofony, which they're all singing the same thing, but they're not the same.
30:52 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not dialed in.
30:52 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_08]: We're not dialed in.
30:53 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_08]: And sometimes there's beautiful musical effects, like with gospel quartets, you get like vocal quartets where they're wrong in this amazing way, or happy birthday was sounds terrible.
31:03 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to pick it.
31:04 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Pick a key.
31:05 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: So I have a question.
31:06 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to go back to Bobby McFarron for a minute because I'm stuck on it.
31:10 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_02]: is what the clip you played, is that more representative of his catalogue of music?
31:15 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Because we're used to don't worry, we happy, which is like iconic, but what you played was beautiful.
31:20 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Bobby McFerran is a chameleon.
31:24 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_08]: You love this.
31:25 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_02]: You talk about him a lot.
31:25 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't.
31:26 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know that much Bobby McFerran.
31:28 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard Bobby McFerran because I'm a musician and he's in the circles, but I've never like deep dove and gone through his albums.
31:33 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_08]: He's like a virtuoso vocalist who he does a lot of jazz actually.
31:38 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
31:38 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't think the twenty-third song is representative of Bobby McFarin, but don't worry.
31:44 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Be happy is definitely not representative of Bobby McFarin.
31:47 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
31:47 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: But he's really, I mean, that was his money maker.
31:51 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess.
31:51 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I swear the last time I looked into this I think the version if you look up don't worry be happy the YouTube video that says Bob Marley don't worry be happy has more hits than the one that says Bobby McFair and don't worry be happy.
32:05 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's not a Bob Marley song sure is hell not a Bob Marley song, but people are more likely to search for it.
32:11 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there even a Bob Marley version?
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's one hundred percent.
32:14 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just people.
32:16 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_08]: It's sort of a gay vibe.
32:18 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_08]: from the eighties and people are dumb.
32:20 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just wild to be the last time I checked.
32:22 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:22 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:24 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:24 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:25 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:26 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:27 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:27 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:29 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:29 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:30 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:31 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:32 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:32 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:33 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:34 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:34 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:36 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:36 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:37 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_08]: And the last time I checked.
32:39 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:41 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:41 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:42 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked.
32:43 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last time I checked
32:44 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_08]: like galaxy yeah this song's beautiful but right again some of it's jazzy some of it's got like international influences he's he's he's he's one of these guys that like Mariah Carey will like jump multiple I mean he's saying all those parts well in the morning talked about Mariah Carey you referenced by who it was like I never would make that connection
33:03 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Because like a lot of my exposure to Bobbie McFarion is like some like live thing that someone sends me or whatever and it's him doing just like improvised vocal stuff that you're you can't even believe somebody could learn.
33:17 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Just like an education on Bobbie McFarion.
33:19 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe we need a deep dive on Bobbie McFarion.
33:21 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting it on a list.
33:22 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
33:22 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really sure I list that will never.
33:24 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
33:24 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_08]: So you heard them monophony.
33:26 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_08]: I played Hill the Guard Von Bing.
33:29 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_08]: And
33:30 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_08]: People might be like, what the hell does that have to do with?
33:32 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Let me give you a more modern example of a monophonic texture.
33:36 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'll say this is not a hundred percent monophany because there's a drum playing too.
33:42 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_08]: But the instruments that make pitch are all playing exactly the same thing.
33:55 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love this pink.
33:57 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Pink is great.
33:58 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, we're very talented, like musicians, generally, like her voice is phenomenal.
34:05 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But I really like this convention in music.
34:07 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I notice the things that you're playing really, it feels like I love the kind of feels like we're all in it together.
34:13 --> 34:16 [SPEAKER_02]: In this moment in music, like we're all doing the same thing.
34:16 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And I love that uniform.
34:17 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_08]: And not funny, but like with one way or another, if we say, okay, one way or another,
34:24 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_08]: The chords are going, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh
34:40 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_08]: riff there, right?
34:41 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, it's not boring.
34:44 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, you know, the middle aid of one way or another, if that was the only part of the song, it would maybe be kind of boring.
34:50 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_08]: But what they are is unified and clear and the point comes through.
34:58 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_08]: There's another way that we could explain this.
35:00 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
35:01 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Just like with kiss from a rose.
35:02 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe it's not monophony.
35:04 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe it's colaparte.
35:06 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
35:07 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Colaparte.
35:09 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_08]: Italian for with the part.
35:11 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Colaparte.
35:13 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, right it with the part.
35:14 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're learning Italian notes.
35:16 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
35:16 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_08]: She's taking them in.
35:21 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_08]: So let me explain what colaparte is.
35:22 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_08]: So it's when the accompaniment doubles the melody.
35:26 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_08]: So like let's say you've got a singer and you've got the piano playing along and in the right hand of the piano they're singing or they're playing the melody the singer is singing along with them.
35:38 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't mean that's all that's happening.
35:39 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a doubling.
35:41 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_08]: And this unifies the parts, clarifies the melody.
35:44 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_08]: And in the case, I mentioned, helps the singer find the notes.
35:48 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, if you go to like a high school choir performance, there might be a lot of Kola part-tay of the rehearsal pianist playing what the singers are supposed to sing so they don't get lost, right?
35:58 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_08]: So here's some examples of this used in real music.
36:02 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_08]: this is lasia kio pianga by handle the broke composer from his opera renaldo from seventeen eleven so this is homophonic okay we're gonna hear and this is Kristen blaze uh... soprano and voices of music is the ensemble
36:31 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Everybody's doing the same rhythm, so it's homophony.
36:34 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_08]: But the high instruments are doing what she's doing.
36:41 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Does it matter?
36:43 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Is the difference?
36:45 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, see if you can follow this.
36:48 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Is the difference, like, who's in charge?
36:52 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_02]: So in one way or another, she's following the instruments and in what, how you talk about this, you're saying that instruments are following her.
37:02 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_08]: The instruments are supporting the melody.
37:05 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_02]: instead of the other way around.
37:06 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I've never thought about it, but I think that might kind of be monophony there isn't hierarchy.
37:13 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, holoparte with the part implies you're supporting the melody.
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Because even in this example, it feels like
37:21 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_02]: She's in charge.
37:22 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_02]: They're following her.
37:24 --> 37:26 [SPEAKER_08]: They're waiting for her to breathe and then they come in.
37:26 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_08]: They are watching her.
37:28 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_08]: The conductor is watching her and moving her or his arms along with her breaths.
37:33 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
37:33 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's how it feels.
37:34 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So like in musical theater when you have I always like going
37:38 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd like to see musicals quite a bit.
37:41 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd like sitting where I can see the conductor because they broadcast the conductor.
37:46 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_02]: He's in the pit, right?
37:47 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_02]: But they have a camera on him.
37:50 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And in the first and like the low season.
37:53 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's usually him.
37:54 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
37:54 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_08]: And still a pretty male dominant part of the field.
37:56 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_02]: But the singers on stage can see a video of him.
38:01 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_02]: They put it.
38:01 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So just in the audience, if you look back, you can see it's like the first row, the the mezzanine, the first side of the balcony.
38:07 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You can see like
38:09 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_02]: a video of the conductor because he the conductor is following the singer.
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
38:16 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that's what the conductor is saying.
38:18 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_08]: So keep in mind.
38:20 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_02]: they need to stay in sync.
38:21 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_08]: This is all very different because modern musicals are done usually to a click.
38:25 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_08]: So the the conductor maybe even sometimes the singers have stuff piped into their ear and because you have special effects happening and videos being projected everything has to be synced to a computer.
38:37 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_08]: And so the conductor is hearing an exact temple.
38:40 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_08]: They're not waiting for the singer to finish their
38:43 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_08]: breath and then continue.
38:45 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they, everybody's following the click and then being like a more classical opera, like, like that, it is a more colopartase.
38:52 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_08]: They are following the singers, but also then the singers are in turn following the conductor.
38:57 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_08]: So you'll, if you see like a stereotypical kind of image of
39:01 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_08]: an opera conductor that conducting way high in the air and it's so because they're in the pit and the singer wants to at least out of the corner of their eye be able to see because the singer might be waiting three measures before they come in so they got to follow and count measures like the the band does too right like the orchestra does
39:17 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_08]: But in a modern musical, the conductor is there to like produce like run the show and manage it and cue the musicians, but they're not choosing tempos and stuff.
39:25 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all to a clue.
39:26 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_02]: We know how like at the end, they'll always like gesture to the pit.
39:29 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And one time, I saw Angelia, which is a awesome jukebox musical.
39:33 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.
39:35 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was watching the conductor because it's just really interesting to me.
39:39 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_02]: and then they like, they're taking bows and I'm looking at the conductor and like he's not on the little screen anymore.
39:44 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, where did they go?
39:46 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And they all came on stage and took a bow and I was like, oh, they like ran up there.
39:50 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It was awesome.
39:50 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Good for them.
39:51 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_08]: They didn't trip over the cables or whatever.
39:53 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
39:54 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_08]: It's cool.
39:55 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you're right to highlight.
39:57 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, Coloparte is following the melody.
39:59 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Monafony, they are the same.
40:02 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Right?
40:02 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
40:03 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we're listening to pink, but really, they're all just boom, right in each other's face.
40:09 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_08]: We just listen to some handle.
40:11 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Are there modern pop versions of Kolaparte?
40:15 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's Pearl Jam.
40:16 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Nineteen ninety four better man.
40:18 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Notice that this guitar part is not the same as Eddie Vetter's vocal, but it is the top line of the guitar, the high strings are supporting and playing along with him.
40:40 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it seems like that's more of a cool part-day situation.
40:47 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Definitely.
40:47 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not monophony, but they're supporting the vocal.
40:51 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So I get it.
40:52 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I can like hear the difference.
40:54 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_08]: And we're not sure a hundred percent, which of these is happening in Blondie, but let me ask this question of these songs.
41:01 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_08]: All of these things
41:04 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I made fun of my high school band too much, essentially monophony in our music just by being an eight piece with horns and stuff.
41:11 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_08]: We all just played the same thing.
41:14 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_08]: But also me is a learning to write orchestral stuff for write art songs.
41:19 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_08]: When I was a grad student, like, I kind of looked down on Coloparte.
41:22 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's boring.
41:23 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_08]: So what stops these from being boring?
41:25 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_08]: And usually what stops these from being boring is some kind of contrast.
41:30 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_08]: So what's we've heard the monophony in the Coloparte?
41:34 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see what happens in this music later.
41:37 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_08]: So here's the chorus of So What?
41:39 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_08]: By Pink.
41:49 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_08]: No more monophany.
41:51 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_08]: It's homophany, pop song texture.
41:53 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
41:54 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
41:54 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_08]: What about better man?
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's the chorus of better man.
41:57 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_08]: Is it still coloparté?
42:09 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's like you, they split and like you follow one or the other.
42:14 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:14 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And now we could choice as it listener.
42:16 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_08]: The guitar is just sort of doing cool raw ballad finger picking and any better singing the melody, right?
42:23 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_08]: So it doesn't stay the same.
42:26 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_08]: Now the handle we heard does stay that way and the
42:32 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_08]: the hill the guard vong being definitely stays the same because there's a unity in that those styles of music that's a little different that's more important textually so does this change I think if one way or another stayed this way the whole time it might not work and what I want to draw you attention to is the things that I think are the magical moments of this song let me remind you what the first refrain sounds like again
43:04 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay now listen to refrain number two.
43:07 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_06]: What's different?
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_06]: What's better?
43:39 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_02]: What do I think's better?
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_08]: What's different first of all?
43:42 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the second one is, it has more grit to it because when you compare the two, the first, I'm not gonna say it's sterile, that's not the right word, but it's so,
43:55 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_02]: like grandma is so accessible because it's easy to understand.
43:59 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And this one you can kind of can start seeing the like unraveling of it.
44:05 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's really interesting.
44:07 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_08]: We're thinking about the melody.
44:10 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm gonna get you, get you, get you, get you, get you, that right?
44:13 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
44:13 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_08]: That's not the courts.
44:15 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_08]: No.
44:15 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_08]: She changes.
44:17 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's awesome.
44:18 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's like
44:19 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_08]: where the magic in the song is now.
44:21 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_08]: If the song was always that, maybe it doesn't work, but she starts out so simple.
44:25 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_08]: And the next time we hear this part, we get these awesome, higher, gritty notes.
44:30 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And those notes are different from the bass in the guitar.
44:34 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_08]: She separates from the monophonic texture, or the colaparte continues without her.
44:40 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just more free, and it's so cool there.
44:44 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's super cool.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: She's so cool.
44:47 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, cheers.
44:48 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_08]: The great.
44:50 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So full stop.
44:51 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_08]: When we get to the bridge, there's no singing, but we hear the texture itself.
44:56 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_08]: Be so much more independent and less uniform this.
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_08]: At this point, it's like a different song.
45:01 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_08]: I think this section of the song is if you didn't know the song well, you almost wouldn't recognize it.
45:20 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe this is overthinking it, but she's free at that point.
45:23 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_08]: That part of the song is just so different.
45:25 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not monophonic at all.
45:27 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_08]: No colaparte.
45:28 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Now she's free to just do whatever she wants.
45:31 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_08]: And we get probably the most iconic refrain.
45:47 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's completely out of sync.
45:49 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Out of sync with the melody.
45:51 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_08]: And if you played someone a sample of just this song, here's what this song, that's to me the most memorable part of this song.
45:58 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's only memorable because you have all those precursor experiences of, because the song is about unraveling in this maniacal vibe.
46:07 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And that doesn't exist without the measured monophony.
46:11 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Earlier in the song,
46:14 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_02]: like you need contrast for it to be so good.
46:17 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_08]: And I totally feel like we could just leave it there, but are you interested in the end?
46:21 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_08]: We actually get polyphony.
46:24 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_08]: She's free.
46:25 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_02]: She's really broke.
46:27 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_08]: And what polyphony is, although it's gentle polyphony, polyphonic music, different melodies that are different rhythms overlapping, right?
46:35 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_08]: I played polyphony for you and you hated it.
46:37 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, because it stresses me out.
46:39 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It stresses you out.
46:40 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:53 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_08]: sort of polyphonic, right?
46:54 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't.
46:55 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, polyphonic spree.
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a band.
46:57 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, is this what they were talking about?
46:59 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
46:59 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
46:59 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_02]: They do a lot of polyphony.
47:01 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I get it now.
47:02 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't hate it so much here because it isn't like I like ease into it.
47:07 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like tempered into it from the beginning of the song.
47:11 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And also the drum beat is so consistent.
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like grounded in the percussion.
47:16 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So like if I get stressed out by all of this like panifonic noise, I just like,
47:23 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_02]: center to the beat.
47:25 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm able to do that in the song and another polyphonic songs that are heavily polyphonic.
47:30 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I often can't find a grounding, but this I mean, it's still very simple.
47:35 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's part of what makes the song punk, right?
47:38 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
47:39 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not, this isn't polyphony like gentle giant or whatever, where it's coming from like an art rock perspective.
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
47:46 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the main films are like buzzing.
47:47 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I can like chicken for this is just sort of like,
47:51 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_02]: chaos at the end of the song it's polyphonic because it's just they're piling the kitchen sink on top right but it works it works like the like with the concept of the song to which I'm really interested in
48:22 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_08]: So lots of music in a row.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of music.
48:24 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_08]: What do you got?
48:25 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm thinking about punk just generally.
48:29 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason I like this blondie song more than any other example that you played is because it has that grit to it that like scratching us to it.
48:40 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I started thinking about this idea of grit in general.
48:44 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wondering if we're losing
48:47 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
48:49 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_02]: As musicians are losing it, if we're losing it as a culture, if we're losing this ability to like with stand-on comfort or if we're losing the ability to like be comfortable in uncomfortable situations, like character traits, not in a vocal grit in the
49:04 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm also wondering, like, vocally, like, what if you think I know it's hard without hindsight?
49:08 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you think of what's happening right now in music, who's like the grittiest musician on the radio?
49:16 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, who's the most punk now?
49:18 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we have anything equivalent in, like, today's pop music?
49:22 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Or is it all too, like, squeaky clean?
49:27 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_08]: I think there's a lot of clean in the vocals.
49:30 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
49:31 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Trying to think who's got like a really raspy vocals you're putting on the spot on.
49:35 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe like Teddy Swims or something or
49:38 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Try to think who like screams a high note.
49:41 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_02]: No one does that.
49:42 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why you can't think of it.
49:43 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't happen anymore.
49:44 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot more falsetto.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
49:46 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like very sad.
49:48 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Charlie Puthas, you know, a great artist according to Taylor Swift anyway.
49:53 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really know, but shouldn't we all be listening to more Charlie Puthas?
49:56 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_02]: She says.
49:58 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Why we're wondering why Charlie put this in a bigger artist?
50:01 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Something like, what song is that?
50:02 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_08]: Anyways.
50:03 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's from the torture poets.
50:04 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
50:04 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of lyrics in there.
50:07 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_08]: What?
50:07 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_08]: So good.
50:08 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think like then I even extrapolate more and think about is it because there's generational differences with how much we've been exposed to to help reinforce our grit.
50:24 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're a pretty gritty generation.
50:27 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree in this elder millennial, exennial moment that we exist in.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_02]: We did have to overcome a lot.
50:33 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the millennials had to overcome quite a bit, but not in the same way.
50:38 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a long terror economic recession, but even just like, you know, growing up, like think about
50:46 --> 50:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So you are involved in your kid's sports team, right?
50:51 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's getting a trophy at the end of the season.
50:54 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Nope.
50:55 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
50:55 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting.
50:57 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Because in generation just below them, like that's everyone got like this, there wasn't this opportunity to fail, right?
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you didn't win.
51:05 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_08]: Not getting the trophy because you didn't win the championship isn't failure, though.
51:11 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_02]: people see it that way.
51:12 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_08]: So okay, so here it kind of can I rant against the trophy generation?
51:15 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I'm trying to get out.
51:16 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Here's the thing.
51:17 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I got participation trophies when I was when I was in youth soccer in the late eighties.
51:24 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I was the change barbershop quartet competitions.
51:28 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_02]: No, never did those never did everyone feels okay.
51:31 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_08]: So who are the people?
51:34 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_08]: who are saying crap like all this generation.
51:36 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_08]: They got participation trophies.
51:39 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_08]: That's boomer shit, right?
51:40 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the boomers.
51:42 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Who the hell raised us?
51:44 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_08]: And where the coaches that gave us those, it was the boomers.
51:47 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_08]: And so it feels like one of those things were like
51:50 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, boomers.
51:51 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_08]: I know some of you are boomers and I love you, but like it's like the oppressor condemning the oppressed because of something they caused.
51:59 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Like blaming you, you decided to create the society in which you were going to give us all participation trophies back in the eighties and nineties.
52:07 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't then in the twenty tens.
52:09 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_08]: So our generation saying it made us soft when you are the ones who did this.
52:13 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_08]: You are also are the ones that like
52:16 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_08]: had us walk home from school and hang out until until you got home from work.
52:20 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_08]: So like we had, we had grit in certain moments, but like, sorry, I'm, you riled me up a little bit here with the heart.
52:26 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I did.
52:26 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
52:27 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_08]: My kids, sometimes they're, you go to a tournament or whatever, you get a pretty space trophy, but they don't just hand up, pretty space and trophies.
52:33 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's probably because us, the younger gen Xers and elder millennials that are having young kids right now are traumatized from getting
52:42 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Made fun of for the last three years for getting participation trophies.
52:45 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't ask for a participation trophy when I was nine years old.
52:48 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_08]: I was given a participation trophy.
52:50 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm pissed off.
52:51 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_08]: Standing up.
52:52 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
52:53 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought of this before.
52:54 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_08]: But this time I have a microphone in front of me and Nicole.
52:57 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's how it goes, right?
52:59 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone needs their soap on.
53:01 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Mom and dad, if you're listening, dad never listens.
53:04 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_08]: Mom, if you're listening, you never make fun of us for participates.
53:08 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard many of your colleagues in your generation, blame the Gen X and millennials for getting participation trophies.
53:15 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm like, it's not my fault.
53:18 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, take a deep breath.
53:19 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be okay.
53:21 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So this idea of
53:23 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Grit and resilience and like are we messing everyone up by not giving themselves giving our kids the environment to make mistakes and to fail and to not get participation trophies and to lose the championship and go home and cry about it.
53:37 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we just keep positive like toxic positivity them all saying it's all going to be okay are we effing them all up?
53:44 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_02]: We're noticing it college kids can't fail.
53:48 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Like students have a really hard time.
53:50 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing so much testing anxiety, performance anxiety, this idea that they don't want to raise their hands and say stuff out loud because they don't want to get it wrong.
53:58 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We're putting so much of our love is conditional only if like you perform well, do you preserve love and deserve attention?
54:06 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing a lot of that generationally and my question to you
54:12 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read a lot of research about grit and resilience.
54:16 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I've led programs that are designed to teach grit to like operationalize grit and put it in a syllabus and teach it.
54:23 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
54:24 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think grit is something that can be taught in the classroom?
54:28 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_02]: This like punk grit.
54:30 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_02]: This idea, like one way or another.
54:31 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I'm going to get that.
54:32 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it can be taught in the classroom.
54:34 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Like grit as described as a character trait comes from overcoming adversity.
54:39 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's what grit is, right?
54:42 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Grid in a classroom is you failed the sight singing exam and you're gonna claw your way up and figure out a way to pass the next one.
54:49 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_08]: So can I teach you that by explaining it to you?
54:52 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_08]: No, you can find it.
54:53 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Bye.
54:56 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_08]: figuring things out and learning it, right?
54:59 --> 55:02 [SPEAKER_08]: And unfortunately, no pain, no gain a little bit.
55:02 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I don't think you're born with grit.
55:05 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think you can teach it.
55:07 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you learn it through hard lessons.
55:10 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_08]: And there is something to be set of like adversity breeds character.
55:17 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think.
55:18 --> 55:19 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, but I think
55:20 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, to try not to be the people that are criticizing us when we were young adults, to not be that when my kids are young adults, like they're also facing adversity that we never experienced, like being COVID babies, right?
55:34 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Our kids were in the classroom.
55:37 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_08]: the COVID classrooms that were fully remote as kindergarteners.
55:40 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_08]: And we don't know, for another twenty years, we'll still be finding out the negative impact that had on their learning, their socialization, their psychology.
55:50 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I tell you, I think our kids, like in the small benefits that they are,
55:56 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_02]: aren't going to be the worst off.
55:57 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the worst off are the kids that were in middle school during COVID, because when our kids were in kindergarten, I don't know.
56:07 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I think of my my our kids are like, ten eleven, right?
56:11 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Friends are everything to my kid right now.
56:14 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And if that all went away, if she couldn't talk to her friends or see her friends, she would not be okay.
56:20 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_02]: When she was in kindergarten, it was really all about me.
56:22 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It didn't matter, yeah.
56:23 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_02]: She just wanted to hang out with me.
56:24 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I had a three year old during COVID.
56:25 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, it wasn't about like, what outfit you're wearing or who's hanging out with who, or who's, quote, dating you, which is a big, biggest, I roll of a thing.
56:33 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_08]: That's crazy.
56:34 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
56:35 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god.
56:35 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god.
56:35 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
56:36 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this marks pan.
56:37 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_08]: My youngest is my daughter.
56:38 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_08]: So I, I'm, I'm going to start with a boy for the school.
56:41 --> 56:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But it, it is just the developmental window of like,
56:46 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_02]: how kids move from their primary groups and their families to their secondary groups is so important in adolescence.
56:53 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_08]: And they had that taken away from them.
56:55 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why they're so anxious and depressed and like non-participatory in their life because they didn't have a chance to experiment with the failure piece of failing at social interactions.
57:09 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_02]: and like working in groups together and making mistakes together and maybe getting into some good trouble.
57:14 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
57:15 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe that's when the educational research happens in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in
57:38 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Like my youngest barely remembers COVID, like high COVID with masks, like her first year of school or whatever, or preschool.
57:45 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_08]: She was in a mask.
57:45 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Like that.
57:48 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_08]: memory was replaced by enough new memories, whereas if you were led into sixteen like these formative years of your life, stay with you and they were kept, you're stuck with your parents or whatever.
57:58 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's interesting because we do talk about how like in your adolescence, those are your most like vivid and core memories.
58:04 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You have a lot of experiences that you pin to around that time period.
58:09 --> 58:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think I noticed things in my child and in kids in her cohort that are like kind of lovely outcomes of COVID like this idea.
58:20 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So during COVID sometimes it just got to be too much.
58:23 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Like some days were just too much to like sit on Zoom and try to learn your ABCs while next to you I'm teaching
58:29 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It literally classes what serial killers and cult psychology.
58:32 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this doesn't feel healthy.
58:34 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And we would just take these days called brain breaks where we just wouldn't do it.
58:38 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
58:38 --> 58:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Just wouldn't look on and we just take a brain break.
58:41 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And she still asks for that.
58:44 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_02]: If she's like, listen, I'm just I'm feeling really tired.
58:46 --> 58:48 [SPEAKER_02]: She'll say my social batteries empty.
58:48 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I just need a brain break.
58:49 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I just need some time to like read in my room and to be cozy and like eat healthy food.
58:56 --> 58:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was, that came out of COVID for our family.
58:59 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_08]: You unlocked some positive mental health practices, but on the flip side from a societal level, if you talk about like, there's like health, your health, and there's public health, right?
59:09 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Like does, do you, are you sick or are people sick?
59:12 --> 59:29 [SPEAKER_08]: chronic absenteeism among kids at schools is skyrocketed since probably and it's because not going to schools if not in my right like I wish I went we had a teacher strike in San Diego when I was like a middle school or a freshman high school something and I went during the strike
59:30 --> 59:51 [SPEAKER_08]: to hell that I go because my parents had to work like now we're like we'll say home like I'm not I'm not saying you shouldn't take brain break days but there's like a good in the dark side like you have to go to school but like if you've gone every day for months and months and months and you know it's a Friday half day like you can take the day off and I think that
59:52 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_02]: The work-life balance piece that came out of COVID is something I'm seeing in generations below us.
59:59 --> 01:00:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That they're like, you know what, it is an important.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I can just zoom in.
01:00:02 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to spend my whole day commuting to like, submitting for ten minutes.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think that those are positive outcomes.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:16 [SPEAKER_02]: that adults get and little kids get concerned.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have those opportunities to develop grit and resilience in a social way, and we are seeing it lacking.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And to go back to the question I asked, like, can you teach grit in the classroom?
01:00:28 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you can give a quiz about what is grit.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: People do it, but you can set up
01:00:36 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_02]: environments that are nurturing and offer, I hate the term safe space, but offer safe spaces or brave spaces and create manufactured opportunities for failure.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Create low-stakes failures, part of the curriculum.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to try something.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:54 [SPEAKER_02]: and see if it works.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And then say, you know what that did not work.
01:00:57 --> 01:01:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Like let's when I teach counseling, okay, why don't you two come up here and show me what the wrong thing to say is, I'm going to be the client and I'm going to offer a problem.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So what's the wrong thing to say?
01:01:07 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to like see how that feels.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think those moments in my field are really important.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It comes naturally for musicians because you're.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a power of learning.
01:01:16 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_08]: I've always bristle that.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
01:01:22 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm actually not practicing.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_08]: You have to be intentional about it.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm going to play this frickin' scale again and hope it's better or do things so that it's better the next time.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm still doing it again, right?
01:01:34 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:42 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think maybe wrapping up on this, I think you mentioned how, oh, do we let them fail?
01:01:42 --> 01:01:46 [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like that's more our generation, the participation trophies and all of that.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_08]: I wonder if this generation, it's more the lack of independence.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:58 [SPEAKER_08]: I think if we, if we can blame our parents generation for giving us participation trophies, we may be due too much with our kids.
01:01:59 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I do baseball with my kids.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_08]: I play video games with my kids.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I obviously do regular parenting stuff.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_08]: I read with my kids sometimes, they don't necessarily have the, like,
01:02:12 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_08]: There was a lot of just like, oh, I'm bored, Mom, what do you ask in me for?
01:02:16 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_08]: When I was a kid, I wouldn't even ask my mom.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_08]: I would just go figure something else to do.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of I'm bored, Dad, with kids that are old enough to know that.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And so I wonder if it's not resilience that they lack because they have, honestly, they've suffered in this generation, but it's independence that we're ruining their ability to
01:02:35 --> 01:02:39 [SPEAKER_08]: just not have to ask mom where whatever is just look for themselves.
01:02:39 --> 01:02:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, definitely my kids going into sixth grade.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely tied her shoes for her this morning.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:45 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, boy.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Just to get out the door because we had to get out the door.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:49 [SPEAKER_08]: Because it's easier.
01:02:49 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_08]: And here's, there's actually a great as recline podcast about this from this last year where he talks about like,
01:02:55 --> 01:02:59 [SPEAKER_08]: We're not ruining our kids by over parenting.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_08]: We're our kids are ruining us like it.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
01:03:02 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_08]: The negative mental health outcomes for our kids are actually not there.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_08]: Like our kids are doing okay.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:11 [SPEAKER_08]: Like my mental parents are not the expectation that you have to do everything with your kid all the time.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Parents aren't living balanced and healthy lives because you're you're just like, well, it's just better if I just tie it, but like.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Like what if I do to her but what does that do to you?
01:03:23 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's like it's my responsibility and I say show the time.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It shouldn't be and when she was learning my line would be like, listen, I'm not going to tie your shoes for you because all you learn is that I'm really good at tying shoes.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you need to learn how to do it yourself.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But like times tight some mornings and we just got to get going, right?
01:03:43 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Part of me is like a letter.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Pack her a lunch, let her be late if she's late.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Like let her take the consequence.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:50 [SPEAKER_02]: But like I got to get where I'm going to do.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a lot of balance.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Like so maybe like I don't know is failure punk is parenting punk.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think can we do this?
01:04:01 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think tying your kids shoes is punk.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:07 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm pretty sure tying my eleven year old shoes is not punk.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:08 [SPEAKER_08]: It's quite square.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Baxter and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditkmail.com and give us a follow on social media.
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01:04:38 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.