Is it me you’re looking for? In this episode, we pine after “Hello,” Lionel Richie’s 1983 mega-hit. While Nichole falls hard for obsessive romantic delusions, Mark yearns for classic chord patterns used in interesting ways. Also, the co-hosts talk about what makes it cool to have that Jonathan Taylor Thomas poster on the wall, but not a poster of the cute boy from English class.
Other Music heard in this episode: Rihanna (feat. Calvin Harris) - “We Found Love”, Commodores - “Easy”, Faith No More - “Easy”, Lionel Richie - “All Night Long (All Night)”, U.S.A. for Africa - “We Are the World”, Gloria Gaynor - “I Will Survive”, Johann Pachelbel - “Canon in D,” P 37, Vitamin C - “Graduation (Friends Forever)”, Green Day - “Basket Case”, The Beatles - “You Never Give Me Your Money”, The Chordettes - “Mr. Sandman”, The Strokes - “15 Minutes”, Jonas Brothers - “Sucker”, Adele - “Million Years Ago”, Maroon 5 - “This Love”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
Nevermind the Music is part of The Lorehounds Network. Join the Nevermind the Music Discord channel by visiting thelorehounds.com
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
00:00 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_05]: You're all I've ever wanted in my arms or wide open.
00:02 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_05]: This like unrequited emotional intensity to someone that might not even know that they he exists that might not even know that he's out there just kind of spinning his wheels for the so that person.
00:15 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_05]: And I wonder how often that happens.
00:17 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder how often people are like pining for something that the other party doesn't even have any clue towards, you know.
00:28 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Folks in the audience, we're getting a glimpse into Nicole's successes romantically in her life.
00:34 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: She's wondering if people ever pine after somebody unrequitedly, what do you mean?
00:41 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_00]: How often does that happen?
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:54 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Mark.
00:54 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And this is never mind the music.
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_05]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:58 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk for a bit about London?
01:00 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:01 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: After college, my wife and I, we went to Europe.
01:04 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of those things where you go and you go to have any money and you spend an hour walking around for a restaurant, finding one that's like, got something under ten euros, but you end up giving up basically because there wasn't one of those like where you waste your time trying not to be as broke as you actually are.
01:20 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So cute.
01:21 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And at one point, we were in London.
01:24 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We were staying with my wife's cool cousin Lisa, not my cool aunt Lisa, the one who gave me the green day album.
01:30 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, she does.
01:31 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm very cool.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: They're both cool.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: They probably would get along.
01:34 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They probably met at my wedding or something like that and conferred on their Lisa nest or whatever.
01:40 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, we were staying in part of London.
01:43 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Incidentally, cool cousin Lisa's apartment was owned by one of the members of Banana Rama.
01:48 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I love to remember Banana Rama.
01:50 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Remember them at all, but I do like to say the name.
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a fun name to say.
01:54 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They have like, cool summer.
01:56 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
01:57 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
01:58 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:58 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like those songs, right?
01:59 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, I'm pretty sure I may have met made that up because we were very deliriously low on sleep because we took a red eye to get there.
02:06 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_05]: And so hungry because you were trying to be
02:09 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
02:11 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That was worse by the time we got to Paris anyway.
02:14 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're half asleep walking around for a few days various neighborhoods of London trying to acclimate to the time change and we keep hearing this song over and over again and it
02:28 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It culminates, sometime crazy late at night, because we're all like off-kilter, probably two days later.
02:34 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the third or fourth time we hear this thing.
02:36 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the video, pops up on, I think, the sort of UK equivalent of VH-One, which might be VH-One or what VH-One.
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_04]: That how they say it.
02:49 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And anyways, you probably know where I'm going with this, but it's this song that had just been haunting us for like the three delirious days prior.
03:07 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a great overlay for a montage of you and your wife just walking around, like, lost in the rain, looking for a bag at or whatever.
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: No, like, literally falling asleep on a part bench.
03:17 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for, like, an hour of waking up because it was summer, it was ninety degree heat and you're like, like, the worst kind of nap, like, where am I?
03:25 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So my question for you, despite the stupid preamble there,
03:29 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there any songs you associate not just with experiences or people, but locations?
03:34 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I associate hello by Lionel Richie.
03:37 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody we're talking about Lionel Richie today.
03:40 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: with London, which is not something we should be associating him with.
03:46 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, oh, smells like teen spirits.
03:47 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Seattle, just through this weird, idiosyncratic experience I have.
03:51 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a story?
03:52 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I do.
03:53 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Do it.
03:53 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's such a good example because you never make this connection.
03:58 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_05]: But I associate Rianna as we found love with the Everglades in Florida.
04:21 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:22 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Because I used to, in a previous life, it feels like recruit for an art and design department at a college I worked at.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And I would travel around with a really, really great colleague.
04:33 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_05]: And we would recruit students from all over.
04:36 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And one of our annual trips was driving from Miami to Sarasota.
04:39 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_05]: And we would to make that drive after like an eight hour day of recruiting with like no food on little sleep kind of road weary.
04:47 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And we'd always drive through the Everglades in one year.
04:50 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_05]: We heard that song every four minutes.
04:53 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_05]: It feels like, and we were so slap happy that every time we heard it, we just started like, crap, like, hysterical laughing through that.
04:59 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_05]: We were both going crazy.
05:01 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_05]: And there was just nothing except Everglades and no place to stop for anything.
05:05 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_05]: And we just lost our minds to that song.
05:07 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_05]: And every time I hear it, I think of that moment.
05:09 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_05]: And it was such a fun time.
05:11 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_05]: It was such a fun experience, like doing that work.
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And my colleague was really great to work with.
05:17 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_05]: We just had a blast every time, but every time I hear that song, I think to color, texture, something, what we kind of lost touch.
05:24 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes you think of alligators or.
05:26 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it makes me think of just like being kind of like you, like kind of just out of your mind.
05:35 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I like you woke up from a weird nap on a bench somewhere, except I'm like an alligator alley or something.
05:40 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
05:41 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so not what I was expecting, but I'll take it, I like it.
05:45 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So okay, Lionel Richie, what's your experience if anything, where are you at with Lionel Richie?
05:49 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a fan of Lionel Richie, as we know, I'm a fan of most music.
05:53 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Whenever I think of him, I think of the headshot on this album, like him on this album cover.
05:58 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you, you know he was in the Commodore's before, right?
06:03 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like easy like Sunday morning.
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Is that the Commodore's?
06:06 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, the song that I would know that I associate with them is Brick House.
06:13 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But he does not sing on Brick House.
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe he sings back up.
06:16 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But he was sax player in the Commodore's.
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the song easy was a hit.
06:22 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Nineteen seventy seven.
06:23 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the ones he wrote, I don't think he plays sax on this, but he kind of wrote the ballads and stuff for that band.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_05]: Do you ever hear the Faith No More cover of that song?
06:47 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
06:47 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really good.
06:48 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
06:49 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Not like in a Mr. Bungal sort of way, but like in a. I bet it's very different.
06:53 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It's actually, you know, what you think it would be, but it's really similar.
06:58 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I can really sing when he wants to, you know.
07:00 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_05]: He shows it off.
07:01 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_05]: How do I have that?
07:02 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_05]: It's really good.
07:03 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_05]: It actually feels the same as the commenters version.
07:07 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Like it doesn't have like a faith no more vibe to it, which is really good.
07:09 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to check it out again.
07:10 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of stuff.
07:27 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about, hello, the third single from Nineteen eighty-three's can't slow down.
07:37 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_12]: It's creepy, as a song.
07:39 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, did you watch the music video?
07:46 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_12]: No.
07:53 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's creepy.
07:55 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He's I think I can acting teacher in a college.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be community or something, but it could be.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, what?
08:05 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it could be a community college, like, how would you know?
08:08 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I mean, I mean, sorry, oh my god, that sounded dumb.
08:12 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it.
08:13 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a four year school, but it could be a two year school.
08:16 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a junior college.
08:17 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
08:18 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, it's either a community college or it's either a college or it's like a community class.
08:23 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I get it.
08:24 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Or just like whatever class, an acting class, you know, you got to acting school.
08:28 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's a college and he's in love with his student.
08:32 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: which was into his creepy in the nineteen eighties but apparently it's creepy to me as a college professor and he's in love with his student and she's as far as the video tells us is blind and then I don't know why that matters in the video except that at the end the like surprises that in her sculpting class she's sculpted a bust of him all right
08:58 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: which is also creepy, so it's just, I'm not sure it works, I'm not sure it works.
09:02 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_05]: You lost me even the line I can see in your eyes, like if she's blind, she probably was sunglasses or something or has like, I don't know, there's something that doesn't land for me there.
09:13 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is a reinterpretation of the themes of the song, not a literal reinterpretation.
09:18 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like an allegory or something.
09:19 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
09:20 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:20 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But I find the song not very creepy.
09:23 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I find the music video quite creepy.
09:24 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_05]: I want to be layer on the images.
09:26 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
09:28 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Add it to the list of the stalker songs.
09:29 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the?
09:30 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
09:30 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Like the police song.
09:32 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: There was one we literally, the police song was just a reference.
09:34 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the stalker
09:36 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a blondie song.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, like one way or another.
09:39 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Add it to the list of the soccer songs like not one way or another, but what was the blondie song?
09:44 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Exofender.
09:45 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're first single.
09:47 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This one, hit number one.
09:49 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Nice.
09:49 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You know the other number one hit on that Allen?
09:51 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Tell me.
09:52 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: All night long.
09:53 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a, oh, is that a better song than this?
09:57 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a better song.
09:58 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I tend to like the, the jams that the, yeah, I think, yeah, you do.
10:03 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't have a clip of that one, but I can get it in.
10:23 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_05]: I think once I see the music video for this, I'm going to like this song more because I like weird, you know, once we start layering weirdness into it, I get really interested.
10:31 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what happens here.
10:32 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
10:32 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_05]: How does she even sculpt him if she doesn't know what he looks like?
10:35 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a hands-on-the-face scene at some point in it.
10:39 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_04]: That's great.
10:40 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little
10:41 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:42 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Right up my alley.
10:43 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Check it out.
10:43 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Check it out.
10:44 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So five singles on the top ten on this album, but those two are the two number hits.
10:48 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: This one, have you heard the term quiet storm?
10:51 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
10:51 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that applies to this, the sort of soulful balance in the sort of rough R&B world.
10:59 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Smokey Robinson, I think, was one of the pioneers of that style.
11:02 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This one was written by Lionel Richie.
11:04 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what else he wrote?
11:05 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
11:05 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see the greatest nine in pop?
11:08 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_05]: No, I never saw that.
11:09 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You never saw it.
11:10 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_05]: There's so much I don't know.
11:11 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so watch the greatest nine in pop.
11:13 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You've filmed me that before.
11:15 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it last season.
11:17 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a nice deep dive.
11:19 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So to speak on it on the one hit Thunder Podcast, friends of the show.
11:22 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Love them.
11:22 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to those guys.
11:23 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They're the ones who talked me and by listening to their podcast into actually watching it.
11:28 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's an awesome documentary about we are the world.
11:37 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And it really humanizes Lionel Richie, like if you think Lionel Richie's creepy because of this music video, though we can maybe blend the director or whatever.
11:54 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: that he's kind of the same person in the room through that whole process, right?
12:00 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause you know Michael Jackson co-wrote it, but you know, Lionel Richie was kind of told to her the cats of all those, you know, thirty superstars or whatever in the room.
12:09 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we kind of get into the song for Reels, can we do our plagiarism watch, twenty twenty five additions for Hello.
12:17 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:17 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Marjorie Hoffman White.
12:20 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: sued Lionel Ritchie in nineteen eighty four for plagiarism for her song.
12:25 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not ready to go.
12:26 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to hear it?
12:28 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
12:29 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I, I could not find it.
12:32 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I look, listeners, if you know where we can find Marjorie Hoffman White, I'm not ready to go.
12:38 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Please send it to us.
12:39 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't find it.
12:39 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I don't know.
12:42 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That means there's no plagiarism.
12:43 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The son doesn't exist.
12:44 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what happened.
12:44 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was dropped or whatever, but did they settle?
12:47 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Like out of course.
12:47 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
12:48 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, I didn't.
12:48 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they settled and he told her scrub the internet.
12:52 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I found actual references in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question.
13:13 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But just because you haven't recorded it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
13:16 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be played at a bar that you've heard about the bar, or whatever, published, or who knows, right?
13:20 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:20 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she was a pop star that's been forgotten.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Where was she from?
13:23 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Did the past ever intersect?
13:25 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean it.
13:26 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, please find this information out.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me know because I don't know.
13:29 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Two in the morning tonight, I'm deep diving.
13:31 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to figure this whole thing out.
13:33 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Because any time we normally, we know when I'm looking up an artist, any time I normally see,
13:39 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's an accusation of plagiarism.
13:41 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We enter into a possible funny conversation.
13:43 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We get to have about how laughably similar or laughably different the songs are.
13:47 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, I was foil.
13:49 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time.
13:49 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_05]: We were robbed.
13:50 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_05]: We were robbed of our opportunity for Woody Banner.
13:53 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they made it.
13:54 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to talk about a certain type of chord progression.
13:58 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think so far in this season.
14:02 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We've done much cord stuff.
14:03 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all been like melody, rhythm, right?
14:06 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
14:06 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we have.
14:07 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_05]: And I love the cord talk.
14:10 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I really do.
14:10 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing cord talk.
14:11 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to use something called the circle of fifths.
14:15 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I know that.
14:16 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what the circle of fifths is?
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_05]: It's in my brain somewhere.
14:20 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I like, no, I learned it a million years ago, but it's like,
14:26 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of like a map.
14:27 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of like a map from music.
14:29 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So listeners pause Google it on your phone.
14:32 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a look.
14:33 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a circle.
14:34 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a literal circle.
14:35 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: A chart.
14:36 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's kind of two things that this means.
14:39 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: The circle of fifth basically just means as you go up a fifth, which means five notes, you get a sharp in your key.
14:46 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go down a fifth, which means go down five notes, you get
14:50 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: a flat or you lose a sharp right so when people are learning music or learning music theory, which is probably you probably learned it in Mr. Joe Mulligan's house.
14:59 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be your home schooling.
15:10 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You probably learned it in Joe Mulligan's class as a chart on the board that helped you learn your keys.
15:15 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So like you could see the circle of fits and go, oh, that means D major has two sharps and F major has one flat.
15:21 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was definitely like a map for keys.
15:23 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
15:24 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not what we're talking about here.
15:26 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: What we're talking about is a chord progression that moves by fifths.
15:30 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
15:31 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's doing the sir.
15:32 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's playing that as if it's a musical thing.
15:35 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: First, before we get there, let's see what the sort of chord set up of the rest of this song is before we get the circle of fifths sequence.
15:43 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the beginning.
16:00 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
16:00 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_05]: I love like, I know you're going to talk about the piano chords underneath, but I love that little like floating melody on top of it.
16:07 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:08 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was the thing I'm sure in London we would hear.
16:11 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, what?
16:12 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you start again, right?
16:13 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But okay.
16:14 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So not it.
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to it again.
16:16 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to notice that putting aside the cute little synth line that you're noticing.
16:22 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The base, like the left hand on the piano, is moving, but the right hand is kind of just chilling where it's sort of stuck.
16:28 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:28 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: There isn't a lot of motion.
16:30 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's static, I would say.
16:32 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And the voices of the top part of the piano, when we say voices on an instrument, we mean each individual note separately, doesn't really move.
16:40 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And it creates these really cool, pretty dissonant chords, like nights and major sevens.
16:44 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's all about being stuck.
16:47 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen and follow how the base moves, but the upper stuff doesn't move very much.
17:07 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:08 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
17:09 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Continues.
17:09 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He has a melody, but it's, again, not really going anywhere because the melody just repeats.
17:14 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_05]: It kind of feels like you're on a treadmill.
17:16 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_05]: But then something changes.
17:33 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to what happens the very end here of the pre-course.
17:55 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
17:56 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_03]: You're just so excited.
17:57 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really enduring how excited you get about a chord chain.
18:00 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a key change or whatever that I'm trying to do is make you excited.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_00]: What happened there at the end?
18:05 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I made a really outrageous face as the last quarter ride.
18:10 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, it like all of a sudden like lifted up to me like it something broke open.
18:14 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have an A minor chord.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
18:16 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That this we're in the key of A minor turns to do an A major chord.
18:19 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:20 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost like when the minor things turn major when we were talking about seal.
18:25 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: What is called something third?
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, check.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm checking the notes.
18:30 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm not going to get there in time.
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Just tell me.
18:32 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: There's no time.
18:34 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Captain of the USS Enterprise from TNG.
18:38 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Pickardee.
18:38 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Pickardee.
18:39 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:39 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So almost like a Pickardee third, where you have a minor court turning major.
18:42 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not actually quite what's happening, but it's something similar to that.
18:45 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_05]: The tonic court.
18:47 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: The tonic court there changes into major instead of minor, which here it's doing something slightly different, but it's
18:52 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Technically the same twist that's happening, right?
18:56 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But what this does, the point is this chord says we're moving.
19:00 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We're finally going somewhere, right?
19:03 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So we hear that things are about to suddenly move, and this is what they do.
19:10 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Hello.
19:14 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Is it me you looking for?
19:18 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_12]: I can feel your eyes.
19:26 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_05]: It goes from almost like menacing and creepy and like flips to being like romantic and nice.
19:33 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I mean it's interesting because actually you know what, let's just listen to Gloria Gainer.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It's doing the same type of thing.
19:59 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, describe what's happening.
20:01 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This, of course, I will survive.
20:03 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Change of topic, sort of, in the middle of my sentence.
20:05 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Glory again, her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna play for you again.
20:09 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I want you to focus on.
20:12 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_00]: is the base.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the base is this is disco, right?
20:14 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The base is bouncing around, but it's the root notes of the base.
20:18 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll play on the piano first and then try to follow it.
20:21 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
20:22 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to compare it to the sort of somber tense opening bits of hello.
20:29 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:30 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to play the base notes on the piano, but they're going to go by faster.
20:33 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to, I'm trying not to bore everybody, but here the notes you'll hear in the base when I play it again.
20:45 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, ready to listen to it again?
20:46 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:47 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Try to hear those bass notes because that's the chords moving.
21:09 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_00]: what jumps out, especially as compared to the Lionel Richie tune.
21:12 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I hear it like going not down a scale, it's not the right words, but it's moving around a lot.
21:18 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Like it's not just static, it is kind of jumping down and down and down.
21:21 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Like it's like pulling me into a whole almost.
21:24 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That whole verse doesn't repeat a single chord once.
21:28 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_05]: It just keeps pulling down, down, down for me.
21:31 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Pulling, pulling, pulling.
21:33 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what we call a circle of fifths progression.
21:37 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what that is sometimes called a falling fifths progression.
21:41 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you start on A, both of these songs are in A minor.
21:45 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You start on A, you go down five to D, then down five from there to G, and then down five again to C, and so on.
21:54 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a pattern.
21:56 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And you remember when we did the Billie Eilish tomb area friend, we talked about melodic sequences.
22:02 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Love it.
22:02 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, a pattern.
22:06 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a harmonic sequence.
22:08 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
22:08 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Meaning a pattern of chords.
22:10 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, the pattern is simple.
22:12 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You fall by five.
22:15 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So if we play it just the notes starting on A going down five a bunch of times, sounds like this.
22:28 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.
22:29 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're running out of space, right?
22:30 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So what we normally do, if you're writing a baseline or something, is you sometimes go up and sometimes go down.
22:36 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So down five is the same actually as up four.
22:41 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:41 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember, back from the Depesh mode episode, what we call it when we flip an interval upside down down to five up four is an inversion, right?
22:50 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I feel that's easy enough.
22:51 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
22:51 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So the base actually plays this alternating, right?
22:55 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_00]: down, up, down, up, up.
23:00 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's only the first in the last note that are the same.
23:03 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything else moves through the key in this really cool pattern.
23:08 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you get it chords, you get this.
23:21 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_05]: It's beautiful.
23:22 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like religious to me, like church type of music, maybe just the key that it's in.
23:27 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll just say you'll find this in all sorts of music.
23:29 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:30 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And you could totally find it in church music.
23:33 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: This is also minor key.
23:34 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You can do it in a major key.
23:35 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: You could start at a different part of the key and I'll give you some examples.
23:39 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But before we bounce to a bunch of other examples of this and get back to Lionel Richie,
23:45 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: just know that there are other sequences.
23:47 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This sequence is like about as simple as you go.
23:50 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You just go down five forever, right, or down five up four, down five up four, right, which is the same thing, musically, just without running out of room.
24:00 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: There's other sequences.
24:01 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You could do any combination down five up two down five up two right.
24:06 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_05]: So you're just taking the circle of fists and like bouncing around it in a pattern.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's how you make it sound.
24:12 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a circle of fits progression because it's endlessly going to the left on the circle.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:17 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to the right, people actually call it a circle of fourths because it's down a fourth because you have to go up the one.
24:24 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You be up, but don't take it to the chart.
24:26 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_05]: I love the chart.
24:27 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They both have the same name because they both derive from the thing, but the fact is, the circle of fits chart is just a way to learn your keys.
24:35 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
24:35 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an actual musical device, right?
24:38 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:39 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The circle of fits, you don't play the chart.
24:42 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The chart is not musical.
24:43 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
24:44 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This is disco and eighties pop.
24:47 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Are you really more interesting than the show?
24:48 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you really more interesting than a chart on a high school music theory class board?
25:12 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I just wanted to play another popular sequence.
25:16 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_00]: This one goes down four.
25:17 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
25:18 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Up a second.
25:19 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So like C down to G up to A, and then down again, and you follow follow.
25:24 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is called the Romanesca.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
25:27 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's super popular in songs you might recognize.
25:42 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that jump out?
25:42 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a wedding song.
25:43 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The wedding one.
25:45 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Can and D. Yeah.
25:46 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I pop a bell.
25:46 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:47 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_05]: I go about cannon.
26:07 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That graduation song from the nineties.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember.
26:11 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is it?
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
26:36 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_05]: The Green Day song.
26:37 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Basket case.
26:38 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Basket case by Green Day.
26:40 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You got totally got it, though.
27:02 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a popular sequence.
27:04 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And sequences are cool because they make it feel like we're moving, moving, because your brain gets an expectation for motion.
27:11 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, people connect Green Day's basketballs.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Good case with Paco Bell's Canon.
27:15 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_05]: But I think we can do it here.
27:17 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There are actually a lot of YouTube videos of people.
27:19 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I say YouTube, but a lot of this stuff predates YouTube.
27:24 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could come up with names off the top of my head, but like people segueing from one into the other and overlaying them.
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a mashup.
27:31 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: a mashup of in the same way that people do those.
27:34 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at all the pop songs with the same core progression.
27:36 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that except classical music and a brook music and pop punk and stuff like that.
27:43 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
27:44 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So the circle of fifth so is just one move.
27:49 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you put it to a beat, you get this.
27:56 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so you with me.
27:59 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like following along.
28:00 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes following along.
28:01 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's the best I can hope for in this podcast two seasons and right.
28:06 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's one weird thing and this is where it will get a little bit more complicated.
28:10 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no.
28:11 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Not all fifths are created equal.
28:13 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:14 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I say you're on a go down five.
28:17 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_00]: to D, and then go down five to G, that all makes sense.
28:20 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what we call a perfect fifth.
28:23 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you're going to have a diminished fifth, right?
28:26 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_00]: There are different kinds of fifths.
28:28 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: The diminished fifth also called the tri-tone because it's three whole steps.
28:32 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_05]: I've heard of those before.
28:33 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a very dissonant clashy intro.
28:36 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_05]: But why is diminished bad?
28:38 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say diminished was bad.
28:40 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I said it was dissonant.
28:41 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, right.
28:42 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You could hear it as bad.
28:44 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of an unusual striking.
28:46 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you said no.
28:47 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_05]: All are created equal.
28:48 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Which implies.
28:50 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Literally.
28:51 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a perfect fit to seven, half steps in a diminished fit.
28:53 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, because of math.
28:55 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
28:55 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not the same.
28:56 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_05]: See, I put like a social science lens on it.
28:59 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_05]: And you're just putting like a math lens on it.
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, good luck having a lot of music with only tritones, though.
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Good luck.
29:04 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:05 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me just play an A minor scale.
29:08 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
29:13 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If you stop and play the distance between number six in that scale and number two in that scale, two and six happen to be a fifth apart, you get a tritone, a diminished fifth.
29:32 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so then is a little clashy.
29:35 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And so inevitably, when you're bouncing through the circle of fifths, eventually, you're gonna have a move that's not a perfect fit.
29:42 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be the clashy tritone and what people do with that, how do they make it work?
29:49 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of the magic of how different songs use this.
29:53 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And this isn't just, oh, it's minor, it's creepy.
29:55 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this happens in major too, just between four and seven, same thing.
30:05 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_05]: even major keys and tension right because you think of minor keys as being more tense and more moody or I do anyway and to hear that same type of dissonance and a major case surprising to me.
30:17 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So major and minor are the same, just focused on different points, right?
30:21 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've talked about this in the past, I think I've mentioned this, that scales and keys are asymmetrical.
30:29 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They're lopsided.
30:31 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: A major scale, for example, has a bunch of holes and half steps, but it goes whole, whole half.
30:36 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Whole, whole half.
30:38 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing divides evenly in these scales, right?
30:40 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So because of that asymmetry, it lets us actually end up back at home.
30:47 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_00]: If it weren't for the tritone, we couldn't have this pattern.
30:56 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We would just keep going, keep going forever.
30:59 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Until we would be able to take, it would be a whole twelve times where we got back to home, listen.
31:11 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just perfect fifths and perfect fourths.
31:14 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_00]: No tritones.
31:15 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The tritone gives us our sense that we're really in a key, even though it's this kind of weird part of.
31:20 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Can I have like test my jargon for a minute?
31:22 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Do it.
31:23 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Like when we talk about Lydian and mixed O Lydian scales, are we talking about like
31:29 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, wait, wait, we're not talking about that.
31:30 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no.
31:32 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_05]: But like, okay, let me ask a different way.
31:34 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:34 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Are there any scales that exist with even intervals between?
31:39 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
31:40 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_00]: What are the scales?
31:41 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_05]: A whole toned scale.
31:41 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_05]: We're not called anything else.
31:42 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_05]: It's just a whole toned scale.
31:44 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's symmetrical scales.
31:45 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
31:45 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So a whole toned scale.
31:47 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Steps only.
31:48 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: A chromatic scale is high.
31:50 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:50 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:52 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:53 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_00]: an octatonic scale is whole step half step whole step half step right so there's plenty of things that are symmetrical okay could be scales and they're almost always dissonant they are not keys right this my next question is there any key that's like uh... made up of only whole steps
32:15 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be a key.
32:16 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be a key.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be a whole tone collection.
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You can have music in a whole tone.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_05]: That's a great band name.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Whole tone collection.
32:22 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a punk rock collective like Chumbo Womba style.
32:24 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
32:26 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So just music teachers.
32:28 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
32:29 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_00]: The idea of a key is that it has a tonic.
32:33 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
32:34 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we play the circle of fifths, there's going to be a part of it that has the tritone that's very tense and needs to resolve.
32:50 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_00]: right there.
32:53 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And in I will survive.
32:55 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens right on the phrase, I've got all my love to give between the six in the two chord.
33:05 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a little weird shift, but remember if we don't have that weird shift, we just go on forever.
33:11 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We never stop.
33:12 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_05]: So I was thinking about the song, like the easy psychological and like thing to map to is
33:19 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_05]: like obsessive stalking, like that's the easiest place to go here.
33:23 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_05]: But I was wondering, like, if there's deeper jargon, we can get into this idea of stalking, and there is, it's called erotomania and delusional ideation, which is the extreme end of the spectrum of erotomania.
33:37 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_05]: This idea that people have, like, delusional beliefs that people
33:41 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_05]: are in love with that.
33:43 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like unrequited love or unreciplicated love.
33:46 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that that's just really interesting language.
33:48 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_05]: We'll apply here this idea that
33:51 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Lionel Richie is having this, like, erotomania towards his alleged student maybe, where we're positing when we look at the music video.
34:00 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, she might not be feeling that love back, but in the video, you say, she does.
34:05 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Is that like a surprise when you're watching the video?
34:07 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's supposed to be a surprise.
34:08 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:09 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's in the very end, I think the song is like done basically at that point.
34:12 --> 34:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And he, someone's like, which, by the way, is a really odd moment.
34:16 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the other students says, like,
34:18 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Professor, or whatever, teach, I don't remember what he says.
34:21 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to come see and brings him to the sculpture classroom.
34:25 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_05]: And this has done like in pantomime because it's a music video.
34:27 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're talking.
34:29 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the eighties.
34:29 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_05]: It has this full of, well, I get so much.
34:31 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the video that's solid minute.
34:33 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It leaves longer than the solid.
34:34 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like subtitles.
34:37 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He goes to the other classroom and there she is sculpting Adobe colored Lionel Richie bust out of clay.
34:45 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So someone brings him to it.
34:48 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're like, hey, you have to see this.
34:50 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Like other people thought it would create redemption story because you listen to that.
34:53 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Like he's just like obsessed with this person.
34:55 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It feels so spooky and so weird.
34:58 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that
35:00 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_05]: the music matches the feeling for sure.
35:03 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_05]: It's about this like longing and isolation, the mind's power to create connection when isn't there.
35:08 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm wondering, like, this is such a common theme in music.
35:12 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_05]: We see it all the time.
35:13 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, we mentioned a couple of other songs that have this kind of possessive, stalkerish nature to them.
35:19 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_00]: and right uh grenade Bruno Mars right that that was very self destructive in that one though right i i want to do all this suffering on your behalf even though you never asked me even if we put aside the music video the song is this sort of longing like heart ache
35:37 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: probably not, required it at all, right?
35:39 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's someone loving you, right?
35:42 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: All these things like I'd have to look at the lyrics again, but I don't think this is a functioning relationship by these planning for the person.
35:49 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_05]: You're all I've ever wanted in my arms or wide open, this like unrequited emotional intensity.
35:55 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_05]: to someone that might not even know that he exists, that might not even know that he's out there just kind of spitting his wheels for this other person.
36:04 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_05]: And I wonder how often that happens.
36:07 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder how often people are like pining for something that the other party doesn't even have any clue towards, you know?
36:18 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_00]: folks in the audience, we're getting a glimpse into Nicole's success is romantically in her life.
36:24 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: She's wondering if people ever pine after somebody unrequitedly, what do you mean?
36:31 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: How often does that happen?
36:32 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it, right?
36:32 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_05]: I know you weren't born married to your husband.
36:35 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that.
36:40 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have love from afar.
36:43 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not as fixated as this, but probably just as fixating middle schoolers.
36:47 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like Jonathan Taylor Thomas, maybe like JTT.
36:52 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but not in the real way.
36:53 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan, come on the pod man.
36:55 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing guests.
36:55 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_05]: This is Steve.
36:56 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_05]: What are you up to?
36:58 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Can't find him anywhere.
36:59 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever he wants to talk about.
37:00 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We will have a side trip.
37:01 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything.
37:02 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So by the way, everybody, we got a good guest for next week.
37:05 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be fun.
37:05 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
37:06 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Spinning off on on this area.
37:08 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It was not Jonathan Taylor's house.
37:10 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_00]: No, things don't move quickly enough for that.
37:13 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is the internet.
37:14 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's twenty twenty five.
37:15 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fast-paced world, but not that fast.
37:17 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Imagine.
37:18 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_04]: He's here right now.
37:19 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
37:20 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: How are you like wondering if, no, yeah, it's completely common for people.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know.
37:24 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if everybody's always as fixated as the character in this song.
37:28 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And certainly, there's not always the power dynamics as the character in the music video would have.
37:33 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
37:34 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But what was the term you used for?
37:35 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Just started off with.
37:38 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it was a Rotomania.
37:40 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: A Rotomania.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Is that a funny word?
37:44 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And what is that?
37:46 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically romantic obsession.
37:47 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a romantic, like a manic romantic.
37:52 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
37:52 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_05]: So, mainly is like the opposite for this podcast.
37:56 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_05]: We can say like, we talked about bipolar before.
37:59 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
37:59 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We do.
37:59 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And how you swing from like depression to mania.
38:02 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_05]: And they're like two ends of your polarity.
38:04 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Like depression is really low and mania is really high.
38:07 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
38:07 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_05]: So, aerotomania would be like a really obsessive, compulsive fascination with
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_05]: finding romance in another person.
38:16 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Like hyper fixation, all you can think about is this other person.
38:20 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You're saying obsessive compulsive just like the English words.
38:22 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Just the English words.
38:23 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Not the psychological, not so clinical, right?
38:26 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
38:26 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_05]: But this idea that you, your hyper fixated on them and you can't stop thinking about the movement if you want to, that you're, to the point that you're following them around, you have posters all over your walls about them.
38:38 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_05]: all you think about is this other person.
38:40 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_05]: And I see that in fandom a lot, like when I talk about Jonathan Taylor Thomas or maybe Luke Perry, which we've said in a previous episode that you know who that is, Dylan McKay.
38:51 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, well, I know who Luke Perry is.
38:54 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't know who Dylan McKay was.
38:55 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_05]: You took a lot of heat on the internet for that one.
38:57 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
38:57 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
38:59 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But we do that a lot with stars, and it seems normal when you have a Brook Shields poster on your wall or Dylan McKay poster on your wall, whatever.
39:07 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_05]: And you're like, our fascinated by them.
39:11 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_05]: But when we do it with real people, it becomes problematic.
39:15 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_05]: So why?
39:16 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_05]: What's the difference there?
39:18 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it less creepy to have?
39:22 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_00]: JTT or a super hot lady on your wall.
39:25 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
39:26 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Then like a picture of Timmy from English class on your wall.
39:31 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He's your book photo.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:34 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if anybody ever, if you were dating some guy and you showed up at his house and he had a picture of you or anybody he knew on the wall, like if it's if it's grandma, you're like, oh, it's a shrine, right?
39:47 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Or something like that.
39:49 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's
39:50 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But someone your age, like someone you know, then it immediately slags his creepy.
39:54 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a big red flag.
39:55 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_05]: If I went into a guy who was dating his apartment and he had posters of me all over the walls.
40:00 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
40:00 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_05]: It would be weird.
40:01 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But it wouldn't be, it still be a red flag for me if he had like posters of a younger Pamela Anderson all over the walls.
40:07 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Like that's not my vibe, but
40:10 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_05]: It would be like, okay, yeah, you're just like a male.
40:12 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That's more socially acceptable though.
40:15 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_05]: But why?
40:17 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Why do we like put these false idols all over our spaces?
40:21 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So is it because of the normalization of false idols in consumerism or is it a safety thing?
40:28 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Because like, mm.
40:31 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That person is a threat to you.
40:32 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's if your pictures are all over his wall.
40:36 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I think where'd you get a picture of me in the grocery store?
40:38 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_05]: That's weird.
40:38 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a threat if he's got a picture of nineties Pamela Anderson on the wall because he presumably doesn't know her and will never meet her.
40:47 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But
40:48 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's just that because also, because it works the other way too where you could have a young woman with pictures of a hot actor or whatever on the wall.
41:00 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't generally think of that dynamic as being a threatening and dangerous, right?
41:07 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: If a woman I was dating had pictures of me on the wall, it would be creepy, but less because of the obvious physical threat.
41:14 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Although that would probably, is she gonna stab me or something?
41:17 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:17 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:18 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it something about the distance and the relationship is socially acceptable, especially when combined with capitalism, maybe?
41:25 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And then you think like, where's the line for like stalker?
41:30 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Like when does it cross the line from being like a super fan to a stalker?
41:34 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_00]: if it's, if it's the famous person.
41:37 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's the famous person, if it's
42:02 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_00]: would be a red flag, but if you were a high school student now, there could be a guy in your class obsessed with you, or a lady in your class obsessed with you, looking you up on Insta over and over again and just looking at your pictures of the time, which is not at all as sort of telegraphed to mom and dad and your little brother as having a poster of that person on the wall.
42:26 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_05]: It's more secret.
42:26 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more secret.
42:27 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a worse.
42:29 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_05]: But we all do it, right?
42:31 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But because there's no barrier that someone's gonna know I'm doing this.
42:36 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_00]: is it worse?
42:37 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if somebody crosses the, look, I'm not saying it's healthy for people on social media to, you know, social media stock they're into, but putting a face of somebody on your wall, you know, other people will think it's weird, right?
42:52 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing it anyways.
42:53 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas there is something about, well, no one will know that I'm looking to call up on Insta or whatever, maybe somebody's doing that without being quite as strongly deep in their aeratomania.
43:03 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
43:04 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, right?
43:04 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
43:05 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but the same I think actually now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if just like you want to gather data on whether people pine people from afar.
43:16 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:16 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm wondering if because of the internet, because a picture of nineties Pamela Anderson is too clicks away at any given moment, do people have stuff on their walls less often?
43:26 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like think back to like world or two pin-up models like
43:29 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_05]: You don't need to.
43:30 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Those pictures served at a very real function for the guys overseas, right?
43:34 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They need it a picture.
43:35 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
43:36 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need anything on the wall anymore because it's a unit there.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's there.
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Things get weird on the internet.
43:43 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder if if just literal sales numbers of JTT.
43:47 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Tiger B magazine.
43:50 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Tiger B magazine.
43:51 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know.
43:51 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my gosh.
43:53 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_00]: What's Tiger beat magazine?
43:54 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like the magazine that all that came from.
43:57 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_05]: It was like a magazine, a glossy magazine.
44:01 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_00]: like girls in our age.
44:02 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_05]: For anybody that's interested in pop culture mark.
44:05 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:05 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you're talking about JTT.
44:07 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Well there was pictures of like Tiffany Amberthes and there's a team thing.
44:10 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I know that?
44:11 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
44:12 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:13 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
44:15 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
44:16 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
44:18 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, these like posters that you would pull out and you could hang up the posters that came in.
44:23 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_05]: It would be like little tidbits.
44:25 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_05]: about, you know, Mark Paul or Tiffany Amber.
44:27 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Who would have their stats?
44:29 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_05]: They would have their stats.
44:30 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: How many hit points they have?
44:31 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:31 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_00]: How much damage they do?
44:32 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that kind of, no.
44:33 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why you don't know about it because you're thinking, you were doing like tabletop games.
44:38 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to actually not, not you know, not yet.
44:40 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really there.
44:41 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
44:42 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Then I start thinking about this like, mania about identity and how we like to figure everything out about someone.
44:50 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm wondering for you like,
44:53 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_05]: How often do you Google real people that you like come across in your everyday life?
44:59 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you ever ever like Google to student or Google to perspective faculty candidate or I think HR regulations say I'm not supposed to really but
45:10 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: professional contacts.
45:12 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Googling people all the time.
45:13 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
45:13 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if I'm if I meet someone at a conference, right, or I meet someone at a show that is a musician, I will look them up to hear what they're doing.
45:20 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_00]: If sometimes a student will come in, you know, they release the EP all go on Spotify or whatever and listen to it, right?
45:27 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Random people that I know I don't really that much.
45:30 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But what strangers that you see in the world.
45:34 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think so I'm just going to do like brown hair guy on the corner of water Vale Avenue like what do you mean how would I what I look you do you think if you were writing the subway and you saw someone on the subway you could find that person online just by like looking at their appearance do you think you could hunt them out like I could use a reverse image search right
45:57 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I get that as an assignment sometime.
45:59 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the only way I would know how to do it.
46:01 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you can say, okay, this girl on the train has a sweater on from a college and she has like a sports symbol on that sweater.
46:10 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_05]: So you know, maybe she plays hockey for that school and maybe I can look up pictures of the hockey team and find her and find her name and then find her socials.
46:18 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_05]: I give that an assignment sometimes when we're talking about like projection and identity and students can always find them.
46:24 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, that's crazy.
46:26 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_05]: and like you are mean that might not be able to.
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_05]: But they can, they like know where to look.
46:32 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_05]: And then one dark web.
46:35 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_05]: The dark web.
46:35 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I had, I was giving a lecture in Carl Young, who's one of my favorite psychologists.
46:40 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_05]: It talks about like, yeah, as one does.
46:43 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_05]: We talked about the shadow cell for identity of the cell.
46:48 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a collective consciousness.
46:51 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes.
46:52 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I my students were so freaking bored.
46:54 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_05]: They were like falling asleep.
46:56 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_05]: you know, it's hard to believe.
46:58 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_05]: So I said, okay, let's just like take a break.
47:00 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's take like a screen break for a minute.
47:02 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_05]: But on your phones, I just want you to find out any creepy bits of information you can find out about Carl Young.
47:08 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Like find who else who can get me the biggest gossip about this guy.
47:12 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_05]: And all of a sudden, they all perked up.
47:14 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And they were just like, beep up, pooping on their devices.
47:16 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_05]: And we made this crazy list on the board of all the weird stuff Carl Young has done.
47:21 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And it was a really great exercise.
47:23 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_05]: And this idea of like this mania, this like obsessive need to find like little bits of gossip about somebody.
47:29 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: God, or like, can you find the most handsome picture of Carl?
47:33 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
47:34 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_00]: internet.
47:35 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we were doing.
47:36 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a hundred years ago.
47:37 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:37 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And they find it.
47:39 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, the the sweet spot with our episodes is always when there's just the tiniest shred of connection between the musical concept.
47:47 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think that this is happening today?
47:48 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this is happening.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This strikes me as just.
47:53 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:53 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting about this song.
47:55 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:55 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
47:56 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
47:58 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I can make some connections.
48:01 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about how board patterns.
48:03 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_05]: There's board court patterns and how we're feeling kind of stuck in some of the court patterns here, or at least I was.
48:12 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Like either I need to be jarred by it.
48:13 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Like all I'm getting into deep of finding this information about the stranger on the internet or like something from the external world, like kind of snaps me back into reality.
48:21 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_05]: This like flow state you get into or I do anyway when I'm like going down a rabbit hole trying to figure someone out or figure something out.
48:30 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So like you're saying kind of like we have this cord pattern and it's a fixation and the tritone helps us like make it healthy kind of.
48:38 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Or at least like give us a way out or offer some like this is why I'm doing this for an assignment not just because it's like salacious and creepy to do that on the subway or I'm doing this because my teacher told me to or to learn more about this perspective, student or employee or something.
48:54 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like it.
49:11 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So listeners and you may have mentioned we've basically not talked about.
49:15 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We've basically not said a word about hello the music since the very beginning.
49:19 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We've just on I will survive.
49:21 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
49:22 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get back there.
49:23 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to.
49:24 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the whole thing I just got to is that every song uses the tri-tone in this progression, the dissonance differently.
49:32 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's a few more examples of how songs do this, and then let's end on what Lionel Richie does.
49:37 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so here's first example, you never give me your money, the Beatles.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:41 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:43 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:43 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:43 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:44 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:45 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:46 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:47 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:47 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:47 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:47 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:47 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:48 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
49:58 --> 50:06 [SPEAKER_11]: Right, like if it stopped in the middle of that phrase, you'd be left hanging.
50:06 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_11]: Be kind of tense, huh?
50:09 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
50:20 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Sandman, the court, that's, in May, in May, in May.
50:23 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This one starts on a major seven chord, not a major seven chord, a major seven chord.
50:30 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Numbers are confusing.
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: This is our weird one.
50:33 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But because they give us that weird chord, they never go to the tri-tone.
50:37 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they go add a key for the first chord, they avoid the tri-tone completely.
50:42 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_00]: They do five laps along our circle, but never have to do that dissonance between four and seven.
50:57 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_09]: Like roses in clothes.
51:07 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_05]: And that song has like a real kind of creepy undertone to it.
51:12 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty weird.
51:12 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_05]: I think because from back to the future, I think that's the song that plays when he lands in the past, in back to the future one.
51:20 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_05]: I think it goes into the time or something and he's like, where am I?
51:23 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I'm just making a, I think there's something a lot about that song.
51:28 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually like it, but it's got a warmth.
51:31 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_05]: to it but also kind of an unsettling like creepy dolls could be singing this and it would it would work their voices like sound almost too good together like it's it's it's a little ethereal it's like it feels more complex than it needs to but it still sounds good maybe yeah yes seventh seventh
51:50 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So remember how I said things, if you don't have a tritone, they just never end.
51:56 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And Mr. Sandman does it by just changing one of the chords.
52:00 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The strokes, the song, fifteen minutes, two thousand five, they just keep doing perfect fifths.
52:07 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They go all the way up full twelve and just say screw it.
52:11 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just going way out of key and getting lost.
52:13 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and they're literally counting as they go.
52:18 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_13]: Turn around.
52:53 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_00]: twelve major chords.
52:54 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_05]: I appreciate the academic quality of that song.
52:57 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's about all I got.
52:58 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those instructional songs.
53:00 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:00 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
53:01 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
53:02 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:02 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's pretty disorienting, right?
53:04 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
53:05 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You never know what it's gonna end.
53:06 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
53:06 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not for me.
53:07 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come at me, but I don't really like the strokes that much.
53:10 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I need to listen more.
53:12 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love the strokes.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a little disconcer.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's supposed to be.
53:15 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's disorienting.
53:16 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I think if I saw some live, I would really like it.
53:19 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_05]: I think I need to like be jumping around.
53:22 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So a few more examples before we eventually maybe get back to Lionel Richie.
53:27 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times people use only part of it.
53:29 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_00]: They use a small subset of the circle of fifths to get a lot of the vibe and the motion of it without having to worry about the tri-tone.
53:37 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So Jonas Brothers, sucker, twenty-nineteen, goes one, four, seven, three, six, but then it breaks the pattern before having to jump to the tri-tone.
54:03 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_05]: People definitely had posters to them on their wall.
54:07 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet.
54:07 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
54:08 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they still do.
54:09 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Some people, not me.
54:10 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_00]: They're still grown-ups now.
54:12 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like you.
54:14 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We were, we're like a little old.
54:16 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a little bit too old to follow.
54:18 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We might have been close to their age, but not close to their.
54:21 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I do like.
54:23 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_05]: There's one that I like more than the others.
54:26 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You're on notice, Jonas brother.
54:28 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the three of you, they like the other two.
54:31 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the one she doesn't like.
54:32 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_05]: It was a rude thing and kind of broke him because I could like fix him.
54:35 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You're asking the wrong guy.
54:36 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
54:37 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_05]: There was a, oh, sorry.
54:38 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I have more about the Joe's brothers.
54:40 --> 54:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's come back to that, maybe.
54:41 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, maybe.
54:42 --> 54:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Million years ago, Adele, twenty-fifteen.
54:45 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_00]: This one does four, four laps through the circle.
54:48 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Also a melodic sequence, just like Billy Adish.
54:51 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_10]: Nice.
54:51 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_10]: I know I'm not the only one.
54:56 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_10]: Hooray Greg!
54:58 --> 55:09 [SPEAKER_10]: The things they've done sometimes I just feel it's only me who can stand the reflection that they see.
55:09 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's kind of pretty.
55:11 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I'm just kidding.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You can hear the pattern there.
55:14 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I can feel your acting because she's got a melody sequence, too.
55:17 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_05]: For sure.
55:17 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And that for me, it just I really respond to that type of music because it's so obtuse.
55:23 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Like this is a clear pattern.
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I can clearly hear it.
55:27 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Sucker, like you can kind of hear it.
55:28 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It goes by so fast and so.
55:30 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but this is just like it's, it's so kind of on the nose that it really reinforces the point you're trying to make.
55:37 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_05]: So it's a great example.
55:39 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Last example.
55:40 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
55:40 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Partial harmonic sequence.
55:43 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_00]: This love, maroon five, two thousand two.
55:46 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Starts on five.
55:48 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Five one four seven.
55:50 --> 55:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We do get the tritone.
55:51 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: They did a only four of them in a row and they go out of their way to give us the tritone.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a listen.
56:07 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_05]: He was accused of having this delusional ideation.
56:11 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_05]: And Levine, he was texting someone that wasn't his wife, scandalous, text must be.
56:17 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Was he too into circle of fifths?
56:18 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_05]: He was like so weirdly about circle of fifths progression.
56:23 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And she was like, I'm not into it.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_05]: And he was like, no, but really.
56:27 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_05]: This isn't important piece.
56:28 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the people have been waiting on up.
56:30 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, you know where we're going.
56:32 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a circle of fifths progression here.
56:33 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We just want to see what he does with the tritone, right?
56:35 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a unique thing.
56:37 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's play that chorus one more time.
56:39 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_12]: I can see it in your eyes.
56:46 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_12]: I can see it in your smile.
56:50 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_12]: You're all I've ever wanted.
56:54 --> 56:56 [SPEAKER_12]: My arms are open wide.
56:57 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_12]: As you know, just want to see.
57:01 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a full circle.
57:03 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and it's like really clear.
57:06 --> 57:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You know why it's clear?
57:06 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Because you just explained it so well to me.
57:09 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish because it's just like Adele.
57:11 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It has a melodic sequence.
57:17 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not full.
57:19 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_00]: The harmonic sequence goes for the entire circle, but three times in a row he gives us a melody that is essentially the same pattern repeated.
57:28 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_05]: I think for me I needed to be in the melody.
57:30 --> 57:32 [SPEAKER_05]: I think I need this the only way I can understand.
57:32 --> 57:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there it is.
57:33 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
57:35 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I will survive as much more free melodically.
57:37 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_00]: This is more simple for example.
57:39 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_05]: And I can't hear all the details, but when it's in the melody, it's so crystal clear and like I said, so obtuse and I love it.
57:47 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's the deal with this one?
57:49 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So this should be if we're just staying within the key of A minor, our tritone would be like this.
58:04 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But what we get here is this.
58:18 --> 58:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's that one.
58:20 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So they flat the wrong note.
58:23 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of going F to be.
58:25 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:26 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And that being a tritone, they go F to be flat, making it a totally clean, perfect fourth.
58:31 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But that perfect fourth is super weird.
58:33 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Because you want it to be a tritone, because that's what you used to hearing.
58:38 --> 58:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
58:39 --> 58:43 [SPEAKER_05]: So creates a dissonance when there wouldn't be a dissonance normally, but in context.
58:44 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a flier.
58:44 --> 58:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a flier.
58:45 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a flier.
58:46 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a genius.
58:48 --> 58:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They take the tritone like this and make it a perfect fourth.
58:53 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Lowering it.
58:54 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Right here.
59:02 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a less dissonant cord, but at a weird place in the key that feels weird, right?
59:08 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
59:09 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's the last cord then that is the tritone, right?
59:13 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: The tritone's not gone, it's just been shifted or whatever.
59:15 --> 59:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's how you find resolution because then you hear the tritone and that's what you've been waiting for the whole time, just like he's waiting for the sculpture of space.
59:24 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that's right.
59:26 --> 59:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Why am I obsessing so much about why am I fixating so much?
59:30 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Manically on this tritone, it's because this is a very boring chord progression.
59:35 --> 59:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But all of the including this song, what did I get you eight examples of it being used?
59:40 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them use it the same way.
59:44 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The tri-tone is not the only way that they adjust it.
59:47 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you just start at a different point.
59:49 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But you take this really boring pattern that gives you a lot of motion and you say, okay, I want that motion, but I don't want it to be boring.
59:57 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's make tweaks.
59:58 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And a tri-tone in where it is is a part of what keeps this moment so interesting.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_05]: I have a fun question.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_05]: So when you think of people that you might have been like borderline, unhealthily obsessed with as a preteen.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it's not a pop culture thing, but if you had posters plastering your bedroom walls, it's like, thirteen year old mark, who was on those posters?
01:00:25 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want a very not fun?
01:00:28 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want a real?
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want the true answer that's not fun,
01:00:32 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And hey everybody, my birthday is an October.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode maybe is coming out in October actually.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I was young for my grade.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, okay.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Back in San Diego in the eighties, it was the wild wild west.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't like have to put your kid in, like in modern.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be too young to be put in.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I was four when I started kindergarten.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's too young.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And there were people in my class who were literally in over a year old as I made.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We were just sort of the wild wild west.
01:01:07 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put them in whenever they feel like it.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I somehow did okay.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:24 [SPEAKER_00]: When did you graduate in high school when you were like seventeen six I was seventeen I can remember being in the Bay Area going to comedy eighteen and up comedy clubs Acting like I had forgotten my ID and growing out my stubble because I could
01:01:25 --> 01:01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And look, look, going to the Bouncer at the Comedy Club and being like, this is the first month of college before I was eighteen.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Going, come on.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: These guys would not be hanging out with the high school student and maybe like, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I looked all because of this double because I was college student at seventeen for like a month, right?
01:01:41 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So why I'm tossing up that said.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a weird
01:01:46 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: thing when I was a kid intimidation about being younger than everybody else, right?
01:01:53 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And as my nascent romantic feelings like sparked, it was never for people older than me.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until a few years later that I would even be like, oh, that supermodel's hot.
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my, obviously, I knew they were hot.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I, when I was thirteen or whatever, or preteen, I did not fixate on anybody like the adults.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They were just like, oh my God, they're two, two old.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's my long way of, okay.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm legitimately telling you.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That changed eventually, but like in like I there wasn't anybody.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There were people in my class or whatever that you had pictures up on your own.
01:02:37 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No pictures on the wall, okay.
01:02:39 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: No Polaroids at my middle school, but it was.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This is all me retro, respectively.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: This is probably TMI for the listeners, but like I didn't really fixate on like like people would have a
01:02:52 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Who would it be, like, one of the girls from, say by the ballot, whatever, on their binder or whatever.
01:02:57 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, Stacey Kurosy.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Which one, Stacey Kurosy?
01:03:00 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_05]: She's Lea Ramone's character in the Malibu Sans episodes.
01:03:03 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_05]: It was a brief summer episode.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember any of this.
01:03:07 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_05]: And Zack Morris had summer fling with her.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_05]: And she was like, twenty-five when they filmed, but he was only seventeen.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:22 [SPEAKER_05]: I just listened to a great podcast called Zack Morris's Trash that Mark Paul Gosler goes back and watches all the say it by the bell episodes.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
01:03:23 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_05]: And talks about how it's like so problematic.
01:03:24 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I click everything.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And she was a guest on it and they were talking a lot about, like, how come we never dated?
01:03:30 --> 01:03:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, because I was seventeen and you were twenty-five and that's weird.
01:03:33 --> 01:03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:36 [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe that's, like, kind of the vibe you're talking about.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I have that kind of vibe.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're a Stacy Curve.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Until I was probably, like, honestly, like, a grown-up.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean I didn't find people attractive or whatever out in the world.
01:03:49 --> 01:03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But like,
01:03:50 --> 01:03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The people that were in their twenties that would have been the high school are going, wow, that's the hottest person I've ever seen.
01:03:55 --> 01:03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: My brain was like, I'm a baby.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: To insecure, to like, girl, isn't that weird?
01:04:03 --> 01:04:04 [SPEAKER_05]: How is your wife older than you?
01:04:05 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife is older than me.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_05]: How about how much?
01:04:07 --> 01:04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: A few months.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, that's not the first time.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Seriously though?
01:04:11 --> 01:04:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:04:11 --> 01:04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: When I was like fifteen, it would have been a problem.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:04:14 --> 01:04:15 [SPEAKER_00]: When I was thirteen, it would have been a problem.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: All of my high school girlfriends were younger than me.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's what's your answer then?
01:04:19 --> 01:04:21 [SPEAKER_05]: I've already said Luke Perry.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Luke Perry.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Mark Paul Gosler.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes A.C.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Slater.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just Mario Lopez.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That one I knew.
01:04:28 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, very good.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I didn't really, wasn't really into musicians, Jonathan Taylor Thomas, for sure, JTT.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's it.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I as an later adolescent now.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm too old to have had Bieber fever and had it be like appropriate.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You were in the twenty.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_05]: But right now, like I kind of have Bieber fever.
01:04:49 --> 01:04:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like he's a handsome thirty something.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:58 [SPEAKER_05]: He's like broken and I can fix them and that's kind of what I'm interested in, you know, what's your birth month August.
01:04:59 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So you were.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:02 [SPEAKER_00]: old, or you were also young.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I was, yeah, but also you were, you were a girl.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's less like, social, there's like social schemas that means the boy, the guy should be older that I had bouncing in my head.
01:05:17 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Especially in the eighties, like, but my girl.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Like now we're trying to move away from stuff like that, but yeah.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this, is this something to leave in?
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird, isn't it?
01:05:25 --> 01:05:27 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of weird, I don't know.
01:05:27 --> 01:05:28 [SPEAKER_04]: This is what the people want.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Baxter and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:51 [SPEAKER_05]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditkmail.com and give us a follow-in social media.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the music is also part of the lower-hounds network.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Please join the conversation on their Discord server.
01:05:58 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening.