Can we predict the next musical revolution? We welcome Lorehounds co-host David as we unpack the Generational Music Theorem, which links major changes in popular music with the coming of age of each generation’s youth. The conversation is wide-ranging and, while we aren’t all totally sold on the theory, David brought charts so it must be true! Check us next week for a regular episode!
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet to there's going to be a rise in the next, I'll pre-make a prediction that there'll be a rise in more polyphonic music moving forward because everyone's like listening through headphones more than listening on TV's or radios.
00:30 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is never mind the music It is never mind the music and that that hasn't changed since the last time we tried to record like five minutes ago I'll put Mark and go well couldn't figure it out Class yeah, I need to stop talking when we have company though Do the thing Hey, I'm Nicole
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, not that thing.
00:53 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Just post the ask.
00:54 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, David, you're here.
00:56 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, David.
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't get to do our normal bit.
00:58 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Our rhythms all this up.
01:00 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody we are joined by David Lohrhound, one of the three members of the triumvirate from the Lohrhounds.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the podcast, David.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Always a pleasure.
01:09 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have to ask the question, who is who are the real Lohrhounds?
01:13 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because
01:14 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: While we're recording this, Nicole is on Plurivis with me, and you, Mark, are with Alicia and John, on it, which are both mean line core television show coverage podcasts on the mean Laurence beat podcast.
01:30 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_02]: So they're like headline podcasts.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_02]: They're headline podcasts.
01:33 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, guys are like integral to those podcast hot billing.
01:37 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We're in the opening credits.
01:39 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Not to the
01:41 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I've taken the plunge where I am recording podcasts in Amsterdam time, so we can up very early because Alicia, who you all heard a few weeks ago with the awesome Hope Punk episode, such a good episode for sure.
01:57 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a blast.
01:57 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So you are our second Laura Hound, a second of three.
02:00 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We hope to get number three in there soon.
02:02 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode comes out early December, but it will come to Dairy is still happening on HBO Max and Plerbus is still happening on Apple TV.
02:13 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're watching those shows, go to the Laura Hound's feed, listen to us talk about those shows.
02:20 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Plerbus is just getting wild right now.
02:23 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe that main character did that wild thing in the last episode.
02:28 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't believe.
02:30 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Spoilers, somebody died.
02:32 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I can't believe everything happened the way that I said it was gonna happen and then Walter White showed up and We realized it really was part of the same universe We are a few weeks behind because we're recording this earlier, so we'll have to see what actually happens.
02:50 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I should come on this fuck guys.
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're often this fun
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to actually write that out.
02:54 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're all crushed out.
02:56 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's realistic.
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What are we actually talking about, though?
03:00 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an interesting topic that David actually, when we told him what songs we were talking about and what that we were talking about in Lionel Richie the week before this comes out.
03:12 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: He had an idea.
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to introvert?
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, should Nicole intro what we're talking about today?
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to do?
03:18 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I can talk a little bit about the germination
03:22 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: flowering of this idea, I suppose, just from the standpoint of how it came about, you'd mention Lionel Richie, well, you know, as we were doing some planning and talking with Alicia and John and I about what sidetracks we wanted to come on and do stuff, and you mentioned Lionel Richie, hello, which has a kind of an ironic resurgence, you know, not too long ago, I guess I don't know, there's there's something about that song, and then I think it was a couple
03:51 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you were doing, maybe he was you were over apologizing, and I was like, bro, I'm at Gen X.
03:57 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You do not need to apologize to me.
04:00 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You broke dirt in my face and never say who about it.
04:03 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I have an experience of millennials that they apologize for things that they're not responsible for.
04:09 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And
04:11 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of came to me, generation and generational music theorem.
04:15 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I started thinking about Lionel Richie and how as a young gen X at the time, watching on MTV, what I was in middle school, why would I know the lead singer or is he the lead singer?
04:28 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you know, a member of a significant member of the Commodore's, what would I know?
04:32 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The next player, but one of the lead singers, he had a couple hits with as lead, but not the only one.
04:38 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would I know anything about this boomer?
04:41 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: singing to me a young jenexer and the idea I was like, oh, how does who makes music for home?
04:52 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And then how does that influence that generation?
04:54 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And when do they start making their music?
04:58 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So I did some internet searching and I came across an article and a whole thing.
05:10 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: and who wrote about this, wrote this whole thing about it, and it kind of blew my mind.
05:17 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this whole idea of who's making music for whom, and then when do those people start making music for themselves, and then when does that influence the next generation?
05:28 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And so how do we transmit music and style over time periods?
05:34 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And because we have a lot of fun with the generational differences on the lower hounds, you know, we've got our token, boomer, Maryland, and we don't think we have any silent generation, or Jones generation, Jones users.
05:52 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_01]: users, listeners, or hosts.
05:55 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: A couple of GeneXers, John and I, a couple of millennials, Mark, you, John.
05:59 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So then we have some Z right with Aaron and company.
06:05 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have any helpers, right?
06:06 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Those Gen Z years, they're weird.
06:09 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
06:11 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, else a podcaster is luckily.
06:13 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They're two young people.
06:14 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Gen Z would be alpha.
06:15 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
06:16 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
06:17 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So they're even weirder with all the skibodies and whatever.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God, he's going to be like over now.
06:22 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, even if it's going to be played by six out.
06:24 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:25 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
06:25 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:25 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what are we talking about here?
06:27 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
06:28 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's sort of shout out this specific reference that people want to go read the article.
06:33 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's called the generational music theorem.
06:35 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: By Matt Bailey, it's on medium.
06:38 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it's where it first came up, but then he kind of updated it in other outlets, originally from 2022.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So this has been cooking in the zeitgeist for a little bit.
06:47 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know, I don't know about YouTube, but I have only sort of caught wind of this wind David sent me this article.
06:52 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't seen this before.
06:53 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: same.
06:55 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I found it when I started internet searching for why as an MTV Gen X, I remember watching in Jimmy's basement on the cable, you know, the astronaut dancing on the moon, you know, jumping on the moon with the flag.
07:13 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They played a lot of Jack and Diane.
07:16 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They played, uh, I'm trying to think
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_01]: TV killed that what is it TV video play all the ready.
07:24 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's it and of course Lionel Richie, you know, and like why do I why would I be consuming this and that was really interesting because Lionel Richie adapted himself to MTV he made popular songs and he had data himself through the musical video genre the music the music video genre
07:44 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a whole bunch of, you know, a whole bunch of us gen Xs who got this sort of second stage boomer music.
07:52 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So should we outline the basics of what his argument is?
07:56 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what he's positive.
07:58 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you want to do it.
07:59 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You want me to do it, Nicole, you want to do it.
08:01 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.
08:02 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you do it?
08:03 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I can do it.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:05 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say, and I don't want to get into the details.
08:07 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But like he shouts out this book from the 90s by William Strauss and Neil Howell, which is called Generations, the History of America's Future.
08:15 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to get into everything that says, but he uses that kind of as a springboard.
08:20 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's actually the book that first coined the term millennial, right?
08:23 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So correct.
08:25 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He called the Gen Z, The Home Landers.
08:28 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_00]: which is weird if you've seen the boys, but personally, I don't like Gen Z.
08:33 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels weird, because we didn't call us Gen Y, right?
08:36 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's weird that they get to be Gen Z.
08:38 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And like are we just forever is next gen beta, like just because we named you Gen X, David, the rest of us have to be alpha numeric, excessive to that.
08:49 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
08:49 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think they should the future generations get to decide, right?
08:54 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, really, the previous generation decides what they're like, Mike, our kids didn't decide to be called Gen Alpha.
08:59 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, but they can throw it off.
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Mike calls them the Zoomers.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's Gen Z.
09:05 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Our kids aren't Zoomers, our kids are Alpha's.
09:07 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The Gen Z are the Zoomers, right?
09:09 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Z Zoom.
09:10 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what it's about.
09:12 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 100% Z stands for Zoom.
09:16 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not about Zoom though, it's about Boomers, but Z, right?
09:19 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's quite good.
09:20 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
09:21 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we just say, we just, like, what's next after X, OZ?
09:25 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was now that I was looking to be the alpha needles.
09:27 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to keep recycling in the same terms.
09:29 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, all right.
09:30 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What this book by Strauss and how talks about, they sort of have a cycle, a four-era cycle, and it's kind of weird, but like some generations are heroes, then comes the artist generation, then comes the profit generation, profit with a pH, not with an F.
09:47 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: and then come the Nomad generation.
09:49 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And those all have features, but they cycle.
09:51 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Nomads give birth to the heroes, which give birth to the artist.
09:55 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have it coincides with eras of civilization, like a high period in awakening and unraveling a crisis.
10:01 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really complicated.
10:03 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not at all going to assess the validity of any of it.
10:07 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But Bailey uses this as a springboard to essentially create his own phases.
10:17 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to the three of us going to fall on different sides as to whether we agree with this fundamental truth to what he's saying.
10:24 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: He claims Bayley claims that major changes in pop music happen when the oldest members of a generation turn 21 or the youngest members of the older generation turned 30.
10:39 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's when he's saying major musical innovations happen.
10:44 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really, really interesting.
10:46 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting.
10:47 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I have some issues with this that we can unpack.
10:51 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, you and I, Nicole are about the oldest members of our generation, the millennials, right?
10:58 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You would say you are the youngest, Jen Xer.
11:00 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where we actually have kind of a complicated thing, right?
11:04 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So we turned 21 in the early 2000s.
11:06 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So according to what he's saying,
11:09 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: There should have been a major monolithic musical event around that era.
11:14 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that event is in the early 2000s, uh, first kind of album, maybe like it's kind of weird.
11:21 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know we didn't, uh, sorry to interject.
11:23 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I know we, you know,
11:25 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We're on an audio and lead podcast, so we can't show this visual, but I did make some graphs, so it's hard to refer to them in some ways, because, and we could post these in the Discord and, you know, I can post one on our Google, then people can link, you know, you can link to it, Mark, and the show notes.
11:44 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the 2002
11:49 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: era is just before the EDM dance pop, according to the musical charts that I pulled out.
11:58 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is, I guess I'm spoiling a little bit of my criticism.
12:04 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little arbitrary, like if, okay.
12:07 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
12:07 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: According to what this is saying, when I turn 21 as being one of the oldest millennials, there should have been a monumental musical change.
12:15 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when my brother, who's a couple years older than me and who is the youngest gen Xer, when he turned 30 in the early 2010s, that should have also been a monumental shift.
12:25 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And it all just depends.
12:27 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little arbitrary like because I don't
12:35 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So because are you going to mention extremes and doldrums as well.
12:39 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So he starts with that fundamental statement, which is that major changes happen.
12:43 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: The young kids turn 21 and the old kids turn 30, right?
12:47 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So what then he does, which is similar to the book written in the 90s, is he has four errors that we go through.
12:53 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And it has a lot to do with what David was talking about about who's making the music and listening.
12:59 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you think of somebody who's a kid, a teenager, let's say, they're not making the music, but they are the primary consumer and buyer and watcher of that music, right?
13:09 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He calls this the evolution phase because this is when new things are being cooked up, right?
13:15 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And then later when that group ages up to be probably in their 20s and they become the creator of music and also pushing the old generation out, he calls that a revolution phase.
13:26 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's according to Bailey's argument, that's when we have major changes in pop music.
13:31 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think he says when they turn 21, we have a major change, right?
13:35 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He also has two phases in between them.
13:38 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: One of them is called extremes, which is when like, you go too far, and you have like gimmicky novelty stuff and stuff like that.
13:45 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe it's like Nickelback as an example in the...
13:49 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_00]: He called that, okay.
13:50 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the examples later.
13:52 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other sort of in between are phases, doldrums, which is when a generation overstays it, it's welcome.
13:57 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's got four phases, but really it's evolution and revolution as the handoff is made between the generations making the music.
14:06 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So what he's done, I think if I understand, he's taken like the rise and fall of changes in music and correlated them with the changes in generation.
14:16 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So when every generation is growing up, they're listening to music and content, their parents are curating for them.
14:22 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually, they start making their own music.
14:25 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_02]: They listen to that until they start making music for their kids to listen to who listen to that music until they get old enough to make their own music that they listen to until they make music for their kids.
14:36 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But he's also saying as that generation transitions over, we get like radical change.
14:41 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:42 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not like a clean cut like things get weird.
14:45 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:45 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And get like nickel back weird.
14:47 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, that's the nickel.
14:48 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But see, Nickelback is not a revolution, right?
14:50 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Nickelback is already in the argument.
14:53 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's a fun too far.
14:55 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, so let's look at, I think, like, right, I think, Nicole and I are kind of going to cause complications to this when we start doing the math, but David, if we take you, yes, when you became a young adult, when are we, what era?
15:12 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, the 90s.
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's early 90s.
15:16 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so in 1991, I was 22 and I lived in Seattle.
15:22 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Prime 1900s by exactly.
15:25 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was down at the Crocodile and the OK hotel and so Seattle in early 90s and you're an older Gen Xer.
15:33 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I am
15:34 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a senior, uh, a gen X, or I'm, I'm in them.
15:38 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm not a microbiologist.
15:40 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, no.
15:41 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm 96, yeah, I'm 69.
15:42 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, uh, I'm on the top end of the X.
15:45 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So that fits perfectly with what he's saying because as you became an adult, we have grunts, gangster rap.
15:52 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We have radical change in music industry.
15:56 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And we all grew up on a diet of Lionel Richie and what's his name, John Mellon Camp and, you know, radio killed the TV star.
16:06 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: All that stuff, you know, we were MTV babies, which accelerates, which does a weird thing when we talk about Lionel Richie, right?
16:13 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how did Lionel, how did I know about Lionel Richie?
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of MTV.
16:16 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He adapted himself for the medium.
16:18 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But your parents might not be boomers, right?
16:20 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They're silent generation.
16:24 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_01]: young for world war two but two old for Korea got it so because Nicole you said like your parents make a sense sorry just a commentary said I feel like it's a sad commentary when we have to age our families based on what wars they might or might not have fought in that's like terrible that while anyway you really did luck out though you did luck out
16:45 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my dad, I mean, it's funny.
16:47 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a part of like the family lore.
16:49 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like my dad turned 18, the week of the last lottery for Vietnam.
16:54 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, not lucky dude, right?
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he didn't go, right?
16:58 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But like he was, he had one shot.
17:00 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas older cousin, two years older, whatever, would have been in there just like had so many shots, right?
17:06 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So it does matter.
17:07 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the same way that now we're going to talk about how old were you in COVID happened and stuff like that, right?
17:12 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But.
17:12 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mentioned like your parents because Nicole you said oh the parents are making it's actually kind of feels like in a lot of cases the generation in between right like the music that you and I grew up listening to Nicole was made by Jen Xers, but my parents aren't Jen Xers my parents are Right
17:29 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: My kids are probably not listening to millennial stuff as much as they might listen to zoom or stuff, right?
17:35 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, Taylor Swift.
17:37 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a millennial.
17:38 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not letting go soon.
17:39 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: So something that's happening that's really interesting is things are starting to like come back into the lexicon like you're saying through MTV with Lionel Richie how he like made her build bottoms back.
17:49 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_02]: They are already having a ride into a wide leg.
17:55 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_02]: We're into the 90s fashion according to the college.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was.
17:58 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_02]: We're a very 90s fashion.
18:00 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But like my kid came home and she started.
18:04 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_02]: She's listening to her Spotify and she's putting on four non-blons.
18:07 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
18:37 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, which is K-pop because the more of a global community.
18:42 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's really funny to think about how hip-hop has gone out into the world and it's boomeranging back at us, just like rock and roll, or the British invasion was rhythm and blues that went out into the world and then came back through the British invasion,
19:06 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Just like Jojo, see what predicted.
19:09 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Come back, yeah, yeah, come back some people together.
19:12 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Just come back like a boomerang.
19:14 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone must laugh now.
19:15 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Ha, ha, ha.
19:17 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Dilly, Jojo, see what?
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.
19:19 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Someone's gonna laugh with that joke.
19:21 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we should leave it in because it just makes us look at a touch for not getting it.
19:24 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You're pretty good at that.
19:26 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I am a clue as Jen, actually.
19:28 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like we have to people are keeping score.
19:30 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone's gotta wiki somewhere, keeping score on how many references the others don't get.
19:48 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, we chose David to say, let's look at your sort of existence as a model for this.
19:56 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm guessing, maybe Matt Bailey is about your age, because it feels really true for your generation.
20:02 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't know that it does after that.
20:04 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate to go right into the like criticisms of this, but if you apply it to us, according to his own charts,
20:11 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The oldest millennials are 1982, which happens to be around when we were born, right?
20:18 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we were 21 in the early 2000s, he's saying that that would be a monumental shift in musical style.
20:26 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it is a monumental shift in global politics.
20:30 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_00]: with the war on terror, and it is a monumental shift in the music industry because of Napster, but I don't see a revolution musically in the early 2000s.
20:41 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And the next musical revolution he's talking about is the boom of electronic dance music in the 2010s, and I just don't, I don't see that as significant as,
20:54 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: rock and roll in the fifties or the birth of punk music or grunge.
20:58 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's a little cherry picked like it's not like 15 years later, all the top 40 singles sound like house music, like they did in 2012, right?
21:08 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, like I don't know that this argument works past the sort of late 20th century magnifier on it.
21:17 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I have an interesting theory as to why
21:20 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_02]: because in the early 2000s, there was a shift in cultural transmission agents.
21:28 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was thinking the exact thing, it's the it's the medium is the technology.
21:32 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
21:33 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Like prior to then, like you were listening to music through the, to say David, the terrestrial radio.
21:41 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
21:41 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And like word of mouth and your big brother.
21:45 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:46 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And actually it was like pat literally handed to you.
21:48 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And in early 2000s, when with Napster, and with the internet, the world became a lot bigger.
21:57 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And there wasn't so much like storytelling, like oratory cultural transmission.
22:03 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It was more digital.
22:05 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe if we rearrange this thesis a little bit to serve our best interest, you can say that Napster was the major music moment in the era.
22:19 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And if we just reframe it, because the problem I have with his thesis is that it seems like you could manipulate the data any way you want to prove his thesis correct, like you could find examples from any era, any moment in time of music that was a dull drum or music that was revolutionary and I think
22:42 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really cool when we layer all of this information on top of each other.
22:45 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really interesting, but it doesn't seem, I question the scientific process, but that's my nature.
22:52 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also feel like I love reading the medium article, I love reading like the thesis as it's written.
23:00 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It would not surprise me if someone drunk at a party sat cornered me and explained this whole thing with a similar gustow.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
23:24 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally makes sense.
23:26 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think he would disagree.
23:27 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
23:28 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_02]: He would agree to it.
23:29 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, that's the vibe.
23:30 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:30 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:31 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Some guys trapped you and really just talking about nickel, nickel back the whole time.
23:36 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
23:36 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I would add even some more critique.
23:41 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not criticism, but critique.
23:44 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And looking at the graphic that I made, which will make available.
23:47 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But the numbers of different kinds of music that were genres, and sub-genres, that were generated from boomer through X-R, the diversity,
24:04 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: starts to collapse.
24:05 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: There are fewer and fewer recognized genres from the silent generation to the Gen Z, which we're only discovering now, right, and millennial.
24:15 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But with boomers and Gen X, we've got multitudes of genre.
24:19 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them short lived, some of them a little longer.
24:21 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So is there, I think that that medium makes a difference?
24:28 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_01]: and the way that the record industry, because we didn't have, you had individual singers, and you had some small groups, but to be a arena rock star at this like a Robert Plant or Pete Townsend, you know, these big, huge, feeling tens of thousands of people and living that rock and roll lifestyle, drug sex rock and roll that whole kind of thing.
24:51 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That didn't get invented until the classic rock, psychedelic rock, you're right.
24:56 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So the way record companies worked, the way music was pushed out, not only on vinyl, and then on cassette, and then on CD, and then MTV.
25:05 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're TikToking and YouTubeing, and there's a there's a rapidity.
25:09 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's something happening in the frequency.
25:11 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But then,
25:13 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_01]: What if we, in a hundred years, what is it going to look like when we look back at this?
25:18 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we see patterns.
25:19 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we in the middle of a pattern that we can't see because of, and Mark would know much more about that.
25:24 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, with the, with the human history of music than so.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's an interesting thing.
25:28 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think like,
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He's focused on this kind of maybe 75-year period or whatever.
25:33 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're already seeing that maybe there's certain massive changes that work for his timing in the 90s, but then it doesn't work as much in others phases.
25:42 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if another way to look at it, that's more related to what you were just looting to, is just the life cycle of a style of music at all.
25:49 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So like think of, if we think of rock as something that
25:53 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, because he's kind of works in some ways because it all hinges on that early 90s grunge thing, right, which is some standard change.
26:01 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:01 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a real folk from point for the whole spread.
26:04 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think it's fair, right?
26:05 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And also essentially, if we talk about life cycle, essentially, functionally the death of that kind of music now.
26:11 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we don't really have rock being a major force in the same way it was.
26:16 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we so if we say that it was born, let's say,
26:19 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Depending on whether you distinguish kind of 40s R&B from 50s Rock and Roll, they're kind of one thing.
26:25 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, if we say sort of 1950s starts, we have this lifecycle that goes through phases, right?
26:31 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It goes through, you know, the sort of commercialization and innovation in the 60s.
26:36 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what we get in the 70s is tons of bifurcation into many subgenres, you've got country rock, you've got prog rock, you got all this stuff.
26:44 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you've got sub like,
26:45 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_00]: opposing forces that splinter off of it like metal and punk and things like that and alternative and it turns into this huge tree will hip hop is doing that too hip hop just started like 15 or 20 years later right in the mid 70s and so whatever is happening in early 90s and rock could we could say is analogous to the same era of hip hop but maybe it's analogous to 15 years early like the grunge era in hip hop is
27:11 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: 15 years later because those styles are offset and electronic music started later too, but like jazz started its life cycle in the 1910s, the late teens into the 20s.
27:21 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And so jazz had its gangster rap moment back in the 50s.
27:26 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's just
27:28 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, society changes, generations change, but ultimately these styles have different life cycles also.
27:34 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And like when was a millennial born maps on to a different phase of rock history, then it does to the simple fact that like my dad and mom grew up with rock music.
27:46 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And so their relationship to the music I was listening to when I was a kid that was rock,
27:51 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_00]: is very different to their relationship to the hip hop they heard when I was a kid.
27:55 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The same top 40 station would have a pop rock song that they thought was great, and a pop hip hop song that they maybe would be confused a little more confused.
28:04 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Mom and Dad.
28:05 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't super hip and early adopters of hip hop.
28:07 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And that says nothing really of the generation as much as just the life cycle of that genre as being a newer form.
28:13 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_02]: and also like the life cycle of the listener.
28:17 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you think that, okay, tea up until maybe 16 years old or at least we'll say, it will be generous up until like 21, you're listening to parent music that your parents.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: past to you somehow.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a shift.
28:33 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense when you layer developmental psych on top of that because at that point, like when you're in your late out of lessons, you are shifting from your family to your peers more.
28:43 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_02]: You do even if your parents sort of the coolest parents on the block.
28:48 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_02]: you'll do anything but what they want you to do.
28:50 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_02]: That's an adolescent's job, right?
28:52 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's to be defiant.
28:53 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe that adolescent defiant triggers the iteration of new, very different music and this change in shift and tone, just as because of the developmental period that that individuals in.
29:06 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that he points out in the article is that the younger generation that's consuming that previous generations' music
29:13 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: They're producing the music, but who's setting the trends or the consumers?
29:20 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So the consumers are receiving all of this, and then they're clustering around this song over here, or that song over here.
29:27 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're magnetizing.
29:29 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_01]: what the producers are putting out.
29:32 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So you put out 10 songs and these two are the ones that are interesting.
29:37 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So from a capitalism drive and in shittification drive, kind of, you want to, well, that's not an insurification scratch that.
29:47 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So you see that these two songs are resonating over here.
29:51 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_01]: As an artist, you go, oh, that's where I need to make my hits.
29:54 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
29:55 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I need that summer time, you know, what's the song of the summer?
29:59 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the, what's the, what's the Super Bowl song?
30:02 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
30:02 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
30:02 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_01]: What it is, you're, you're trying to match your creative output to a market dynamic.
30:10 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That, and that market dynamic is being driven by the consumers.
30:14 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So like at these various stages of development, you know, going from teenager into, you know, young adults.
30:22 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So right now in 2025, while it might be the older zoomers and younger millennials that are making the art, it's the older genalphas that are choosing which things are successful, right?
30:36 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And that are changing the art.
30:39 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And popular songs aren't.
30:41 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_02]: 12 minute tracks on long albums that have get interludes between each track, which I think the three of us would love.
30:48 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But they're like songs under two minutes that have really great hooks that are really digestible, which probably mark loves because that's the type of music guy, right?
30:59 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But the trends in pop music are mandated by, yeah, the consumer.
31:03 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And if the consumer right now was a 13 year old girl in her mom's car, listening to TikTok or whatever,
31:09 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that is mapped on to, or there's a relationship or a dynamic there with the technology, because if you're primarily consuming streaming music on a handheld device,
31:24 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's different from my experience, sitting in my buddy's basement with a 4x3 ratio color TV that's the size of a small elephant.
31:36 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Watching John Google Mellon camp, seeing about pretty little pink houses, right?
31:43 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, oh, I remember we participated in a Japanese student exchange program.
31:48 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was by freshman year of high school.
31:51 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the students that was visiting with us had a walkman cassette player that was smaller than the cassette tape.
32:00 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It was this little clam thing that just covered the holes in the head and man, that thing was just like, whoa, but yeah, we were listening to cassette tapes.
32:11 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were album consumers.
32:13 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right unless you're hot boxing off the radio and trying to hit play and record the same time on your on your thing.
32:18 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet to there's going to be a rise on the next I'll pre-make a prediction that there'll be a rise in more polyphonic music moving forward because everyone's like listening through headphones more than listening on TVs or radios.
32:39 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody listen to the blondie episode where we just find that again.
32:42 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, but I mean, I think With her poly polyphony or not like
32:48 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, because I could actually interesting, because headphones would suggest, yes, like stereo, interesting things in the same way that, like you had like quadraphrinean, like these surround sound albums created in the 70s when that technology was invented.
33:03 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, Nicole, people listen on a freaking cell phone speaker sometimes, and that's about as long as it gets.
33:10 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: They are stereo, but you can't hear.
33:12 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So, on the other hand, in the same way that, they call it the wall of sound,
33:17 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Phil Spectre, the known murderer and record producer Phil Spectre, created this thing called the wall of sound, which was you would saturate the mid-range by overdubbling and adding tons of reverb because of the AM radio.
33:29 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And because you lost high and low frequencies, you only got the mids.
33:33 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, by God, let's make those mids as sexy as you possibly can.
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I...
33:39 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just finished mixing an album and it's like should I be mixing in a way that sounds good on somebody's crappy cell phone speaker I can't bring myself to do so, but maybe I should be right I also wonder just with social media and with the way
33:56 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_00]: things are shared and the way that we don't have a monoculture.
33:59 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_00]: If these kinds of transitions can't even really happen anymore.
34:03 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who it was, but I think it was a podcast that I heard recently put it that, like, your kid is watching some YouTuber or TikTok or Twitch streamer.
34:13 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's got 10 million followers and is legitimately super well known.
34:19 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're best friend at school.
34:21 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: is also watching a YouTuber's twitch dream or whatever with ten million views, but it is a different person and they don't even haven't even heard of the one your kid is into.
34:32 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:32 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just so much splitting, like, how would a new revolution of style even really happen when kids these days are so split, you know, kids these days, yeah, I'm going to yell at a cloud while I'm here.
34:45 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's even throw in a crazier element to the medium question, which is, yeah,
34:51 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And those that 10 million twitch, you know, that that's twitch streamer who has 10 million followers viewers, whatever, they have a home recording studio that puts the Beatles abbey radio to cheat.
35:05 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, the electronic tools that they have to create new sounds.
35:09 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, thanks for your Iraq.
35:12 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
35:12 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Hard to agree.
35:12 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
35:14 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
35:16 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The truth is that somebody has to make all kinds of music, and then they can make music with people who are in other parts of the world, they have to either say symmetrically or symmetrically.
35:28 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
35:29 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:29 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And you did it.
35:30 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You even did it during COVID, right?
35:32 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You talked about stories about mixing, having recordings come into you and the cell phone videos and turn them into a little music video.
35:38 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's awesome.
35:39 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're good.
35:42 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that you're not going to like this, because I know where it's going to send your head into a spiral of more work to do.
35:47 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever think about your, your, uh, the slacademics at slacademics.coms up coming out.
35:53 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: No, slacademics and on Instagram.
35:55 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.
35:56 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_02]: That was probably dropped by now or whatever.
35:58 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
35:59 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, first single will have dropped by now.
36:01 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_02]: That's exciting, check it out.
36:03 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever think about mixing it multiple ways and saying, use this version on your iPhone, use this version on your headphones, use this version in your car?
36:13 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you said, like, you don't know what to mix it for.
36:16 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_02]: But does anyone ever mix it like Taylor's version, but so Taylor's version, it's like cell phone version?
36:22 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like the mono version in the stereo version.
36:24 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Not really because you can't, you can't,
36:28 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Expect anybody to do that like if you do that you're inviting People people are gonna listen to the cell phone version on their their uncles $1 Usually will you know, and then they're gonna listen to the the high-fi surround sound version on their cell phone like I just think you you have to split the difference And you have to try to make it okay and one of the things we do mixing is like I'm a composer But like as a producer my sort of like
36:54 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: best super power sort of is as a mixer and what you do when you're mixing is you have to mix on a variety of monitoring devices.
37:04 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I'll listen to a thing.
37:06 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll work on it with my kind of fancy not super fancy but my near field monitors that are pretty pretty high quality and then I'll put a headphones in and listen to the track and then I'll make a print to the track.
37:17 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: put it on my phone, go to my car, plug it into my car, listen on my car, and then I'll go for a run, listening on crappy earbuds.
37:23 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
37:23 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you have to simulate what it is outside of the studio context, because nobody, except for their uncle who bought a high-fi in the late 1970s, is ever going to listen on anything as good as you are usually working the creating credit card, right?
37:39 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And so do you have to back?
37:40 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You go back, you like take critique yourself critical and each of those environments and then you go back to your stations and like, and you tweak it.
37:50 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, you want to work.
37:52 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So just, oh my god, I'm so sick of this album because every time I would do a new draft, I would listen to it on like four different sources.
37:58 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm taking notes.
38:00 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening.
38:00 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going, I can't hear the tombs on my earbuds or I hear too loud on the base in the car.
38:05 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to just aim for the middle because maybe the base is too loud in the car, but on the earbuds, it's not loud enough.
38:12 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So what do I trust?
38:13 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, your system that you just now.
38:16 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing why you are the way you are.
38:19 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:19 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, because I could never do that.
38:21 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no universe that exists that I'm like, let me go back in tweak.
38:25 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be like,
38:27 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But do you want music to be, you know, like, do you need people like us, right?
38:31 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I need people like you, but I'm not one of them.
38:34 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a consumer.
38:34 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also creative.
38:36 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also more maybe over the top than some people would be.
38:38 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
38:39 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm constantly tinkering.
38:41 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
38:42 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're always in your heart.
38:43 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But we need to.
39:02 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So the, I will quick back to the, sorry, I didn't get in.
39:08 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Great, this is great.
39:09 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, I love, yeah, he has a show.
39:11 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is beautiful.
39:12 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The, I'm looking at this graphic that I made.
39:15 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually, when we were talking earlier about the, when Marky were talking about the,
39:20 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_01]: life span of any given genre and i was going on about how well there's all of these different subgenres spread out between boomers and xers and i'm looking at uh... british invasion or smote on soul british invasion folk rock psychedelic rock classic rock
39:37 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_01]: disco, blah, blah, blah, blah.
39:39 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There are these fine gradations of genres because we are looking back 40, 50 years.
39:46 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're starting, we, as historians, are starting to tee and consumers, are teasing apart, winded this band show up.
39:53 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: When did this hit get made?
39:55 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this really part of this or is it really part of that?
39:58 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_01]: With millennial made music,
40:01 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And certainly, Gen Z main music, we don't have the historical perspective of time to be able to look and say, I wrote this down on my little note sheet here, hip hop genres.
40:12 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I know nothing about the different genres of hip hop, and yet there are distinct genres.
40:17 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know people know that, I don't know that, and that's just because I haven't done the research, but there is winded those evolve in Doldrom and revolution and it's right.
40:29 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_00]: it some of that is the benefit of history and for like somebody somebody in the discord pointed out in our episode about new wave and punk blondies like we had talked about how that kind of music became later to be known as new wave.
40:42 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But the truth is it was actually it was called new wave.
40:45 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just the term new wave was completely interchangeable in the late 70s to punk.
40:49 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: If you said you were a new wave band, it meant you were a punk band of vice versa.
40:52 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only later in a few years that they split that.
40:55 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, part of it is history informs us like, oh, we're going to call this indie sleeves.
41:01 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like nobody was called Yachtrock.
41:03 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody had Yachtrock is such a compelling term.
41:06 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it as a descriptor.
41:07 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't know I exist until the 2000s.
41:09 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And that music stopped existing in the early 80s.
41:12 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But on the other hand, David, I would say, some of this is style and subculture based.
41:16 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, metal.
41:18 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: has always loved carving up.
41:21 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like back in the 80s and 90s, it would be like, oh, it's Christian black metal, do metal, stone metal.
41:28 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was a subculture that seemed to a community that seemed to love to subdivide and label.
41:35 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think some communities maybe just aren't as into that as others.
41:38 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So some of them might be the march of time and the 2020 vision of history.
41:43 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the metal dudes were there.
41:46 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_00]: They were ready for it in the mid-80s already to start cutting things up and giving names.
41:51 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we all agree that here metal bands were the, is that the doldrums, what's the, yeah, it's like the doldrums.
41:57 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when it's like gone too far, like bro.
42:00 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
42:01 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, when even that's it, all right.
42:03 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_02]: That label gives so much clarity to some,
42:07 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like this last gasp right if like we didn't leave it all on the table yet.
42:12 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're just going to throw everything out and just get it out of our And the younger typically of that that we're in there.
42:18 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Like oh, I want to get my bag too, right?
42:20 --> 42:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to I want to get my heavy question out.
42:22 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's interesting cash you outside.
42:26 --> 42:26 [UNKNOWN]: Sorry.
42:26 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to be hip.
42:27 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just actually brought her up in a lecture about the Feltine industry, like yesterday, which is hilarious, but the bad guys are like, all right, yeah, they're floating around out there, man.
42:38 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
42:38 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So the right amount of hair metal, though, hair metal totally represents what he's describing, but Bailey's describing as the excesses of a genre, eating it to floor.
42:48 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But what's happening with the exact same time?
42:51 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: As those doldrums is, if we could call it that, is the birth of death metal, the birth of thrash metal, metallica, stuff like that, do metal.
43:02 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: All of these more extreme sort of side quests that then become eventually kind of more mainstream are happening at that same time as her metal.
43:12 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's sort of, if he's talking about the extreme phase and the doldrum phase as kind of opposites, the fact that they're happening simultaneously in different
43:21 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_00]: parts of the community in the same way that yacht rock, like really polished pop was hop rock was happening in the late 70s, was also simultaneously punk was happening.
43:32 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And are those completely separate styles of music or do they represent opposite extremes within the same style of music?
43:39 --> 43:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it kind of like, if Metallica co-exist with quiet riot,
43:44 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: as really different crowds but different reflections of the same kind of music.
43:48 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how we can really say there's an era that is the late, the mid and the late 80s when it, it's all of those things.
43:57 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk for a second about like what?
43:58 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I don't want to leave all of Bailey's argument like just to this sort of overall point.
44:05 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_00]: He also gets the specific about what's going on now.
44:08 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And he has to do this.
44:09 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's perfect cause I was going to question because who is it not Sabrina Carpenter, who's the other young woman that's kind of, that makes me think of Lady Gaga with the theatricalness of it.
44:20 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just playing Melany Martinez.
44:22 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't even know who that is.
44:24 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gosh.
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be first of all.
44:26 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
44:49 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's interesting because what he says and this is where he says like this is kind of a marker of the new trends and then he makes some predictions.
44:56 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He's saying the music that's being made now and he uses Billie Eilish is one.
45:02 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_00]: He uses Olivia Rodrigo as another and he uses Lil Noss X, which feels very 2022 kind of for that to be as big as the icon of generation.
45:13 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_00]: as Marker is and what what he's describing is really that there's a lot of intimacy there and that the music is is more intimate and more personal but
45:23 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because Taylor Swift came a decade earlier, Taylor Swift is quite intimate and the intimacy between her and her fans is a huge part of that.
45:33 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Trump is contemporaneous to Billie Eilish and stuff and that's really over the top and almost like you haven't heard her, but like you would feel like when you listen to a lot of her music, it would feel like club music when you were going to clubs David.
45:47 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it has a lot in common with like Madonna kind of showing this and a lot of sort of
45:53 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_00]: drag culture involved in fluency in it.
45:56 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That was very common in pop music of the 80s and 90s, right?
46:00 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_00]: At least some of it.
46:01 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know like you can share it with the intimate people.
46:04 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, would about all the showy over the top people that are representative of that.
46:09 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's more representative is this like gender, fluid, the atricality.
46:15 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_02]: of like little Azac's in Chapel Rhone and a lot and even and even Billie Eilish to some extent to some extent but like the lady Gaga she sure she doesn't fall into they she's not in that same like the atricality no she's atricality but but about
46:32 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_01]: the the presentation of gender right then she she is definitely they are challenging the notions of gender and gender questions well sure compared to relative to like a Taylor Swift if we look at like again like we don't want to it's not scientific to just cherry picker data right if we look at Billy I like I assume
46:51 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Mark, get out of here with that.
46:53 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I have my own facts.
46:55 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Billy Eyelish and Sabrina Carpenter are probably not that different in age, right?
47:00 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Billy might be a little older, but they're civics age, and they're approached to sort of, for example, showing us in sexuality is very different.
47:10 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Billy Eyelish famously, like,
47:12 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: would, you know, wear her baggy sweatshirts and like, I'm not going to like sexualize me.
47:16 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas Sabrina Carpenter like owns the sex sexiness part of her vibe, right?
47:21 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I've heard some of her lyrics.
47:22 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, she exploits it.
47:24 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:25 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
47:25 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how do those?
47:27 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't really say, well, you've shared.
47:28 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm everybody listened to the last year's Grammy episode.
47:32 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: whether whether Nicole Jr. is allowed to listen to spring and carbon or not is just going on.
47:37 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:38 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:38 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:39 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:40 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:41 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:42 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:43 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:43 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:44 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:46 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hear.
47:47 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:47 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:48 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:49 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:49 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:50 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear.
47:50 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They almost represent opposites of that aspect and they may also represent opposites of how intimate their portray, you know, Olivia Rodrigo or like Gracie Abrams have that whispery vocal, but Chapel Rome does not, right?
48:05 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like hard to say this is what is happening, right?
48:10 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And that this represents because his predictions are like very much specific, like he says the 2020s will be the worst doldrums ever.
48:20 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_00]: with plummeting audiences.
48:22 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's quite the prediction.
48:23 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get more intimacy coming out of that even more intimacy.
48:26 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And then something will be, and this is where it gets vague, right?
48:30 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_00]: In the 2030s, things will go stale and we'll get something new.
48:32 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, sure, I agree.
48:33 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sure that will happen.
48:35 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll have another revolution in 2035, according to his like math, his calculation.
48:40 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: As it's like 27 years later.
48:43 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, they have a good.
48:45 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I was saying this is Harry Selden and Foundation.
48:48 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it has to happen, right?
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Psycho history.
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Psycho history.
48:52 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, like, I think this is fascinating conversation, but I don't know that it's so simple as to just base it off of.
49:01 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_00]: the general because because our generational cohorts are really defined by honestly like you you said David earlier isn't it a shame that like I categorized my parents based on that's what generation I was are in the last hundred years.
49:14 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the boomers of the boomers because of World War II right.
49:17 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: the Millennials of the Millennials because of some arbitrary date, right, 2000, right?
49:22 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And we are based on Jesus, COVID is going to cause like none of these things had that's right.
49:28 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_00]: None of these things have any means to do with music and art, right?
49:30 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They have to do with global politics and calendar numbers and things like that.
49:35 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So I should have got this ecosystem that we evolve in and as that ecosystem changes with the advent of new agents of change, like media and other technology.
49:46 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, pretty sure we'll be living in bubbles in a domed society like a rhythmic drumming and some real-watching binary code to us.
49:55 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you already listen to though, Nicole.
49:56 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think great.
49:57 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure sure.
49:58 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
49:58 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I drive circle stuff.
50:00 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It like rusted root fed into AI and the map fed into AI again and then again and again.
50:04 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and then to somebody like me, listening to that in the future, it's going to be listening to the, um, the, the modem tones when I used to dial into the internet.
50:13 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, come for a great, great, great, great, great.
50:16 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But, but also like we, I, I based on what I think the approximate age of, of, I think your daughter's similar in age to our kids, Nicole and my kids.
50:25 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, David.
50:26 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm younger than, we're younger than Nicole and younger than you, Mark, but you have two.
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm still there.
50:32 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: My youngest is probably.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're 10.
50:33 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_00]: where he had kids in our 30s, you may have had kids in your 50s in your, okay.
50:39 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, late, but no, wait, I guess 50, 40, late 40s.
50:43 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are people right now, but like, okay, if you go back up to my grandma, she had my mom when she was early 20s, right?
50:50 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are still people right now having kids in their early 20s.
50:52 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So what kind of generational cohort is that, right?
50:54 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Because this gen Alpha, their parents are a massive, they, gen Alpha could be have
51:03 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_00]: right?
51:03 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and I think that his model is really historically, we're not going to be able to, it works for this slice right now to describe, and I don't know that it's predictive value, as opposed to its descriptive value.
51:19 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:19 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Descriptively, it's very cool.
51:21 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I made a really cool graphic for it.
51:23 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't wait to share it.
51:25 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
51:25 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Talk about the graphic.
51:26 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what we're going to do, but it's going on the discord or maybe it'll go on the lower hands,
51:31 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I can put a, there's a way that I can put a, put it publicly available on our Google Drive that then you can put a link to it.
51:36 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So people can click on it and the show notes and so.
51:39 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
51:40 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this has been awesome.
51:41 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We're at about an hour.
51:41 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Should we, can we wrap?
51:43 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we done?
51:44 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Did we solve music?
51:46 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:46 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so what, what are people, it's early December, David?
51:50 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_00]: How can people find you?
51:51 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: What should they be listening to?
51:53 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they can find Nicole and me on the main Laura Hound's feed covering Pluribus.
52:01 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We will, we've got a whole bunch of weird side projects going on as well, some different movie stuff.
52:07 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe you'll still be covering it.
52:10 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Dairy around that time.
52:13 --> 52:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We will also have
52:14 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_01]: our top 10 movie picks John Alicia and I always record and we release that on Christmas Day and then I in December will be coming around to you and you guys I was just making my list today and checking it twice.
52:30 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be scheduling with you guys for your top threes because we can't do all the warhounds community like it would be forever podcast but I will come to you for your top threes and then that will be our boxing day episode.
52:45 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll have that, like with Aisha and the Dune Minic guys and Marilyn and Jean, you know, just the whole gang.
52:52 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We love that.
52:52 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all fun.
52:53 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_02]: It's always fun to hear people's responses for like, end-of-year wrap-ups, for sure.
52:57 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
52:58 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're looking forward to that.
52:59 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So glad you could join us today.
53:00 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to this Mad House over here and never mind the music.
53:04 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Come back soon.
53:04 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We often like to end on a stinger, something kind of funny.
53:08 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you share with us the most gen X joke you can think of?
53:11 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Wanna end on it?
53:13 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that comes to mind is a limerick, but that's just, no, I can't, I don't have a gen X joke for you.
53:21 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so just leave a warning.
53:22 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no time for it.
53:23 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_02]: We'd no one cares about gen X and their jokes.
53:26 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm sorry.
53:26 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_02]: We're just two gen X jokes.
53:28 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Jokes on them.
53:29 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Jokes on us.
53:31 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say this.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We, as you all know, and I were talking about this the other day.
53:35 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Politically, Gen X, we're cooked.
53:39 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It's your guys' show, right?
53:41 --> 53:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You, it's time for millennials to run for offices and they never be a Gen X president.
53:47 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No, there will never be a Gen X president.
53:49 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That is wild.
53:50 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That is different.
53:51 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're two.
53:52 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, we'll, we'll help you.
53:55 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be in your cabinet.
53:56 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll, you know, be your secretaries or whatever, but no, we're, we're, we're done.
54:00 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We're done.
54:04 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
54:08 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I also produce.
54:10 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
54:14 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We're never music pot on social media, and you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
54:21 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is part of the Laura Hounds Network.
54:24 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Join the conversation by going to thelawhounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
54:30 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.