Are you a responsible eldest child? A spoiled youngest? This week, there are many things that we would like to say to you about Oasis’ 1995 sing-along classic “Wonderwall.” Nichole muses on a psychological theory that might explain some of the toxic family dynamics in the band, and Mark outlines the cool melodic patterns that help make this song so catchy. And, of course, Mark’s top five 90s guitar strums!
Other Music heard in this episode: Foo Fighters - “Big Me”, Blues Traveler - “Runaround”, Counting Crows - “Mr. Jones”, Soul Asylum - “Runaway Train”, Oasis - “Live Forever”, Blur - “There’s No Other Way”, Elastica - “Connection”, Oasis - “Roll With It”, The Beatles - “When I Get Home”, Oasis - “Don’t Look Back in Anger”, John Lennon - “Imagine”, Soundgarden - “Switch Opens”, Toto - “Rosanna”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, did they try to do this?
00:02 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably not, but why is it actually completely work for every single section, except for one that we'll get to?
00:07 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think about that too much.
00:08 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Mark, did they try to do it that way?
00:10 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's right.
00:10 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Just did it because it sounds good, man.
00:12 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Famously, I'm always interrupting the podcast asking, did they do this on purpose?
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Popony.
00:17 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
00:17 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So why are you so like a dope in your minds?
00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
00:21 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what I said?
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm Mark.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:38 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is Nevermind the Music.
00:40 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we gonna talk about today, Mark?
00:42 --> 00:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So, despite
00:45 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_00]: being early high school really in to hard rock.
00:48 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was in the Alice and Chains and Sound Guard and a lot of Grunge and Post Grunge.
00:52 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: This is even before Punk and Scott and all that stuff, right?
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I was really a rhythm guitarist.
00:59 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
00:59 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I say rhythm guitar, you know what that means, right?
01:02 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I know what that means, yes.
01:03 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:03 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The people know that's not the person playing the solo's and the leads.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the strumming person.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_02]: That's like the George Harrison.
01:09 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: George Harrison was the lead guitar player.
01:11 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:11 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, whatever.
01:12 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That is it out.
01:14 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So George Harrison would play leads because John Lennon was singing more, and that's a part of it, right?
01:20 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked to sing along, so I tended to do the strumming strumming stuff while singing along to a song rather than learning solo's and stuff.
01:29 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I got it.
01:29 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I was also going to say, I think Dave Matthews plays the rhythm guitar even though he sings.
01:35 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only guitar.
01:37 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you watch them, they do crazy.
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing crazy stuff.
01:41 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Not all rhythm guitar is easy.
01:43 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put it that way.
01:44 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And incidentally, my high school scab and who we have not heard on the pod and I'm pretty happy.
01:49 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it called the Dave Matthews band?
01:51 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
01:54 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I was the rhythm guitar player in that band.
01:57 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We had two guitars, not because the other guy was better at solos, but because I was better at that.
02:04 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
02:04 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The rhythm is not always easy.
02:06 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways.
02:08 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: This eventually turned me into one of those like, oh, there's an acoustic guitar here.
02:11 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's all sing along kind of guys, right?
02:15 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't act like you weren't a part of that.
02:16 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: See sometimes.
02:18 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I was a part of that scene many times.
02:20 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I thought it would get me girls and did not.
02:23 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was unsuccessful.
02:25 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say in general, but before we get into today's episode, I just wanted to start with a tribute to the legacy of the nineties, strumming strumming acoustic guitar.
02:35 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
02:37 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_00]: This tribute is the top five nineties jangly acoustic mostly guitar sing along strumming patterns.
02:43 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm not songs strumming patterns named after songs strumming patterns named after songs.
02:49 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm here to be clear.
02:51 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking about power cord chugs
02:55 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No chug a chug, a sorry glycerine.
02:57 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, welcome to Paradise.
02:59 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good one.
03:00 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Fund a play easier to play than a lot of this chug.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But not what I'm talking about.
03:04 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Not finger picking.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry December by collective soul.
03:07 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, you know, like collective soul.
03:10 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_02]: That's really polarizing as a band.
03:12 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm maybe we have to talk about that.
03:14 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:15 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you were meant for me by jewel, right?
03:17 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
03:17 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Finger peeing.
03:18 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_00]: No, cool riffs.
03:19 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: No, unsung by helmet.
03:21 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but that dot dot dot dot dot dot dot.
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great room.
03:24 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
03:25 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: No Jeremy.
03:26 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's so broken.
03:28 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, damn.
03:29 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim, well, he doesn't, it doesn't end well.
03:31 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Jeremy.
03:31 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It does not spoilers.
03:32 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like,
03:34 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Only very recently did I learn that Jeremy kills himself.
03:38 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
03:39 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a video made me think he kills everybody else in the class.
03:43 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But no, he's a suicide, which makes a lot more sense in terms of the message of the song.
03:47 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They actually made us watch that like high school health class or something.
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Or a prevention bully prevent.
03:53 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
03:55 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:56 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Bold.
03:56 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:58 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I might have made that up, but it's still relevant.
04:01 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
04:02 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Right now I'm thinking like a teacher like there's no way that that will be a problem.
04:07 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I would think.
04:07 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm right.
04:08 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Great song great music video program.
04:09 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the nineties like parents didn't call as much.
04:13 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have phones back then.
04:14 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have a phone.
04:15 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't tell a graph or whatever.
04:17 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Telegram, right?
04:18 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to do it on a horse.
04:19 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Come up.
04:20 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also to be clear.
04:22 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking subspecies.
04:24 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So the lightning crashes is just a slow sub genre of number one.
04:27 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm about to play.
04:28 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
04:28 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready?
04:29 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
04:29 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_00]: For the five top nineties, jangly acoustic, mostly guitar, sing along, strumming patterns.
04:34 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so ready.
04:35 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:36 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_00]: This one is the down, down, up, up, down, up.
04:39 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Also called the big me.
04:42 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_05]: When I talk about it, carry his own reasons on the new.
04:49 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_05]: When I talk about it, carry his own reasons on the new.
04:58 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're all like, and I see what I see what we're doing now, because I'm listening to that, and I'm seeing you, I didn't know you then, but you and my minds, I surrounded by a hoard of people, and you're like, I'm doing it.
05:13 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm leading the pack.
05:14 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: To be clear by the way, that's big me by the food fighters.
05:17 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
05:18 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually gave up trying to learn the guitar as an eighth grader when that song came out.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the song.
05:22 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I failed to learn the guitar.
05:24 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I only came back a year later.
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wow.
05:26 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's number one.
05:27 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two.
05:28 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The down, down, down, down, up, down, up, down.
05:31 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:32 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is called The Runaround.
05:49 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Blue Traveler, I actually saw them live last year.
05:53 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Last year.
05:54 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I saw them live.
05:56 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Not great.
05:57 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure.
06:00 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to, I don't want to make any speculations, but I'm pretty sure they were on drugs because they kept it.
06:04 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's jam bands, of course they were on drugs.
06:06 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But like he kept leaving the stage and then coming back in and then like wailing on his harmonica.
06:11 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
06:12 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And also the crowd was really, really weird because there was a bunch of people in my age that like we're seeing it kind of ironically and like why not?
06:20 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It was the cheap ticket.
06:21 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But then
06:22 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_02]: There was another group of younger people that looked like they were like on tour with blues traveler.
06:28 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_02]: They had like signs and they knew every song and they were blues travelers.
06:32 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_02]: They were blues travelers and it was kind of blue.
06:34 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It was sad.
06:35 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you saw them and you're like, ooh, call your mom.
06:39 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were immortalized.
06:40 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:41 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: As one of the top five nice janky.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy seeing them live, but it was weird, man.
06:46 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_02]: What's the scene?
06:47 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
06:48 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
06:48 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Number three, the down, down, down, up, down.
06:52 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
06:52 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Also known as the Mr. Jones.
07:09 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That one notable because it gives you the emphasis on the end of four down, down, down, down, down, down, whatever.
07:14 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, it's a notable, almost done.
07:18 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
07:19 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The down, down, up, down, down.
07:22 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
07:22 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Very simple emphasis on beats one, two, and four, the runaway train.
07:36 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm like transported to a very distinct time in place in my head.
07:40 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Like singing on sounds like, you know.
07:44 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the big me.
07:45 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The run around the Mr. Jones, the runaway train.
07:48 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: These are very dude forward, but you also have to remember the era.
07:51 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to remember the the vehicle of these strumming strumming patterns back in the air, which is mentioned jewel.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she's really the only one.
08:00 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned jewel by excluding her because it's no finger picking.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No finger picking.
08:05 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And so
08:06 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Next we get down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down.
08:10 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:10 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Also known as the Wonderwall.
08:12 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_06]: It really is so good.
08:15 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_06]: And like a student came up to me a couple years ago and they were like professor.
08:21 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever heard of a band called Oasis?
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, I almost threw up.
08:23 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_06]: I was like,
08:37 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just saw this documentary movie about this bin called Oasis.
08:41 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really interested.
08:42 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I think I'm going to start a band like Oasis and Oasis cover band.
08:45 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, all right.
08:46 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Do it.
08:47 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Oasis tribute.
08:47 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:48 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So to be clear, I never really learned to play the full song.
08:51 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I would play this song all the time in high school, but I always kind of faked the chorus.
08:59 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: all the roads we have to walk.
09:00 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I just sort of never learned the chords.
09:02 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I just every chord sounded good, so I just played them.
09:04 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But man, did I have this part downpad?
09:14 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That transition between the third verse is so good.
09:19 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is one of the most iconic aspects of this song, but honestly, what I want to talk about with Wonderwall by Oasis, by the way, Wonderwall by Oasis from nineteen ninety five, what album?
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_02]: What's the story?
09:31 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Morning Glory.
09:32 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the story?
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Morning Glory, right?
09:34 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: What I want to talk about is melody.
09:36 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But first, Oasis.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What's that to say?
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your history with them?
09:40 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about Oasis.
09:41 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I am a fan of Oasis.
09:43 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I loved this album when it came out.
09:45 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It was one of the first albums that I really got into and I realized like, okay, this is like, who?
09:51 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, after Beatles, Oasis is better.
09:54 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I know now that that's not true.
09:55 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was like, this is the Beatles for our generation.
09:58 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_02]: also not true.
10:00 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's how I felt in that moment.
10:02 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And then later on, I really got into like the quarreling brothers.
10:06 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I really like that like family dynamic there.
10:09 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And just like following the ups and downs and the band, they seemed like real rock and roll to me.
10:15 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, that they were like troubled.
10:18 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:18 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just really liked that, but the song is great.
10:21 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many great songs on this album specifically.
10:24 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really the only oasis album I know.
10:26 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't know anything from definitely maybe from nineteen and four.
10:29 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess I probably would.
10:30 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Super sonic cigarettes and alcohol.
10:32 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: This is live forever, which is probably.
10:35 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have this record, but this is probably the one I heard the most.
10:37 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:01 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I sound like Coldplay a little bit?
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think Coldplay was influenced by Oasis?
11:05 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure Coldplay was, but...
11:09 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he sounds just like John Lennon there.
11:11 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it really leans into the word, maybe a lot.
11:14 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be the one that saves me.
11:17 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, and the fall seto, the double track fall seto sounds so much like John Lennon.
11:23 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I think this is, so I like all these songs.
11:28 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I never got into Oasis because
11:33 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I was really rebelling against that sixties resurgence kind of neo beetle mania that happened in the nineties where the anthology came out and everybody was talking about the Beatles and these guys sound just like the Beatles and I sort of like liked the song but hated the vibe that
11:50 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know the Beatles are one of my favorite artists of all time.
11:52 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I got over that.
11:54 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you were just like, they're trying to steal the Beatles thunder and help them.
11:56 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I did not like the Beatles as a high school.
11:59 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not.
12:00 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Or what this would have been middle school, right?
12:01 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was like so over all the like mom and dad nostalgia Elvis first.
12:09 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Beatles, I'm like, oh God, right?
12:12 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Little that I, I mean, I never gave the music a chance until probably I was, you know, honestly college.
12:17 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm prepping for this podcast.
12:18 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Prepping for that's right.
12:19 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yesterday, years old.
12:20 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I liked Blur a little more, too.
12:23 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were gonna talk about the different green pop groups and other podcasters have done way better deep tives on the floor.
12:31 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Blur has some really good, like, dancy stuff.
12:35 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I put a clip in, put a clip in Mark.
12:38 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put like, I'll put up like, there's no other way or something like that.
12:42 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
12:42 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so good.
12:43 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_04]: There's no other way, there's no other way.
13:00 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_02]: What are some other like Brit poppy of this time?
13:03 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's like a second coming of Brit pop and a waste of some blood.
13:07 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was a great song.
13:10 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a great song.
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_00]: The connection.
13:13 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Elastica.
13:31 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I know it there's no it's it's it's super british like if you hear the accent in the nineties it's probably but I kind of liked that I was going to try growing yeah like something about the accent I had least like romantic ideas of like backpacking around Europe and I think that this tickled me in a way sure and
13:53 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I think they were wearing the Beatles things on their sleeves.
13:57 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It was obvious, like the John Lennon glasses that the Galagher, this is Turtle Next, I feel like.
14:02 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
14:03 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is how they have a very, a very seventies John Lennon.
14:06 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, not a Beatles era, but later than that.
14:09 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: This tune roll with it from this album sounds so much like John Lennon.
14:15 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_07]: You gotta say, get some, you gotta say, watch it say, don't let anybody get in your way.
14:22 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_07]: He doesn't stop too much for me to say.
14:28 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll too much though, of course.
14:29 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a George Harrison song, but here's when I get home the Beatles sounds the same.
14:33 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: The vocal style at least.
14:52 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: hard day's night.
14:53 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: They were late for advertised as the new Beatles.
14:57 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
14:58 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And even when even when Nolan singing, so Liam Lee vocals, Noel writes all the songs and is the guitarist, but seeing sometimes he doesn't sound like any of the Beatles, but yet the instruments, the vibe is still there.
15:26 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at first I was like, I love this beetle song, but then it's not.
15:30 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the beetles but John Lennon imagines.
15:32 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, right?
15:33 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're not trying to hide.
15:36 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason that just like felt so lame to me, even though everybody loved it.
15:41 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I loved all the songs too.
15:42 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.
15:43 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But I couldn't like adopt it anyways.
15:45 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
15:45 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
15:46 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So just context of this song fourth single on what's the story morning?
15:51 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:52 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that crazy?
15:53 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot.
15:53 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a great album.
15:55 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_00]: First one, some might say second one role with it, which we just heard.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Then morning glory.
15:59 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Then this and then champagne supernova.
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I think would have been the next one.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So crazy.
16:06 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how high do you think this peaked?
16:08 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Considering how iconic this song is now.
16:10 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm your setting me up.
16:12 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I would have said it was number one, but now the way you've set it up, you've primed me to say no, and I've known you.
16:18 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to trick me.
16:18 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an ace.
16:19 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So high, but not that high, but for how many weeks?
16:22 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Like how many weeks is it on the chart?
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to do your own research.
16:25 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, nothing.
16:26 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That I don't know.
16:27 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It was higher on other charts, you know, modern rock or whatever, but Billboard Hot One Hundred.
16:49 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know how deep we want to get into the feuding.
16:53 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like people can listen to Rob Harville as podcasts, sixty songs that explain the nineties, which is super awesome, by the way.
17:00 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice conversations about how much these brothers hate each other, but these brothers hate each other.
17:06 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
17:07 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we talk about the song,
17:09 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: do you want to say anything about that like the dynamic of this band and if you think they're touring like now and I think they still hate each other.
17:16 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that they do still not like each other but they still love each other and I think that that's interesting about siblings that you don't have to like each other but you do always love each other.
17:27 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_02]: They're very close in age.
17:29 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: They're only like, um, like maybe five years apart for five years apart.
17:33 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's not that close in age.
17:34 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not that close.
17:35 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
17:35 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But they shared room for their whole lives growing up.
17:38 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_02]: They were really like raised really close.
17:39 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_02]: There's actually third brother.
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
17:42 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you know that?
17:43 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: There's an older brother.
17:44 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Jiminy Gallagher.
17:45 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: No, what?
17:46 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_02]: James Paul Gallagher.
17:47 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Paul.
17:48 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: He's older.
17:48 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: He's older.
17:49 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And then knows the middle child and Liam's the youngest child.
17:55 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm planning in this podcast to talk about like birth order theory and how that is relevant to like their personalities and generally like the downfall of the band.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_02]: What makes some speculation here?
18:07 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just say.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
18:08 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That has nothing to do with what I want to talk about.
18:11 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just talk about it now.
18:12 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, cool.
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just talk about it now.
18:14 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to talk about Melody afterwards.
18:16 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So you have an older brother and older brother.
18:19 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Not five years though.
18:20 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He's only about two years older than me.
18:21 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: What are some differences you notice in your personality versus your brother's personality?
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm way like louder and sort of more intense.
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: My brother's way more chill than I am.
18:34 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And if there's someone that needs to make a decision about your parents or the family, does that usually fall on you or your brother?
18:41 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be the one probably assigned the crazy decision.
18:44 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny, because for me, I'm the younger sister and I also would be the one assigned to make a decision.
18:49 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And that goes against like traditional birth order.
18:53 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so he's not old enough that it was like,
18:56 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The Gallagher's had an older brother was five years older.
18:59 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's then you're having this situation when you've got a grown up and adolescent in the house.
19:03 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: My brother's close enough in age that like we were always developed mentally similar except for obviously there was a point at which he was an adult legally and I wasn't.
19:10 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not like we had a aside from when we were little kids a difference in
19:16 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: like capability that was so massive that our birth order dictated our personalities and the way that it can sometimes.
19:23 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of times it comes up more if there's more than two or more than one or two kids in the family.
19:28 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So traditionally what we say that an older child is
19:32 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_02]: more responsible is kind of like a deputized parent in some cases that like if parents isn't around like the oldest child is going to take the lead and decision making.
19:42 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and if you've got five of them, you've got an adult or something possibly what you've got in eight year old.
19:47 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And we also see in really large families like an old that older child being deputized to be a parent is actually really maladaptive for that kid as they age up to like give a kid the responsibilities of an adult like can be pretty problematic lunge to only for that kid as they age up.
20:04 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_02]: They have this level of responsibility that is inappropriate of a child which is an interesting side track to this.
20:10 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_02]: But Paul was the oldest.
20:12 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_02]: They say that older children experience more pressure to succeed or more have higher academic aptitude because they feel like they need to be constantly proving themselves.
20:21 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they, um, second child comes along and kind of g thrones the oldest child.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So here that would be no.
20:28 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Like he is born and now he's the
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_02]: the star, right?
20:33 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And kind of overshadows Paul, right?
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And milk, but he's not, right?
20:38 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not the lead vocalist.
20:40 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_02]: No, and maybe that's what he writes the song.
20:42 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and maybe that's what kind of adds some tension.
20:44 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They say middle children are often really good negotiators and really eager to keep the peace.
20:52 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in Oasis,
20:54 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I might be wrong, but I feel like Noel always seemed more like level headed than Liam and Liam kind of seemed like a firecracker and Noel was just trying to like keep all the pieces of Oasis together and Liam was the one that was like FU.
21:06 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
21:07 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Or was it maybe both of them?
21:09 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know everything I've heard is they're just like going at each other all the time.
21:13 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know, like I liked the songs but never dove into anything about the band because the vibe was off for me until I was an adult.
21:21 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
21:23 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So, middle children are really like often are very, very good at conflict resolution.
21:28 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
21:29 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Because they're usually negotiating between an older sibling and a younger sibling and trying to find a middle ground.
21:35 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and that carries over to adulthood.
21:37 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: How many kids in your family?
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Just me and my sister.
21:39 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so yeah, so none, neither of us have any experience except for being the the youngest and the babies get away with everything.
21:48 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, according to this birth order theory and that was true in my household.
21:52 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: My household.
21:53 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_02]: But the rules were less for me.
21:55 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have as many restrictions and responsibilities.
21:57 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_02]: My oldest sister.
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And even now when I'm in like my family home, I revert back to being like a ten year old.
22:04 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm laying on the couch.
22:06 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like rolling my mom's asking me to do dishes.
22:10 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And which is wild because I'm a grown woman, right?
22:12 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But they say that the youngest are often perceived as more outgoing, more adventurous, more carefree than they're sibling.
22:18 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
22:19 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that tracks.
22:20 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And are also potentially really prone to being spoiled or self-centered.
22:25 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that when we talk about Liam Gallagher, we can like make that connection to just interesting.
22:31 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
22:31 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like I think when we talk about that last piece, for example, like how much of this has to do with
22:39 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_00]: the dynamics between the parents, right?
22:42 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The dynamics between the parents and the kids, rather, so like.
22:45 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, for example, my son didn't watch TV when he was one and a half years old, right?
22:51 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We tried to keep the screens away.
22:53 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_00]: My daughter, who's younger, the screen was on because she has a brother who's three years older and also I'm just so tired to find you guys.
23:01 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You can watch TV when you're two years old because I need to cook dinner, right?
23:04 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And they do say that for younger siblings like media exposure,
23:10 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_02]: um, does change their development because they're often exposed to older media.
23:14 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:15 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they're, you're, they're watching violent movies, five years too soon because it's all you're defaulting to your son's preference or older child's preference.
23:23 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But so what I was going to even ask is like, you can say that that has a lot to do with us and the way we treat them because we're tired of whatever, but also
23:31 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think about a traditional American dream, these things get better financially, for example, that doesn't always happen obviously, but older people often have more disposable income than younger people.
23:43 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how much of it is the youngest to five kids is spoiled because now the family can afford a TV.
23:49 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the family couldn't afford a TV when the oldest was a little kid, you know, we were living in a studio apartment in the city, and now we've got this big yard or whatever, because we're a decade older at that.
23:58 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, it's so complicated, like how many of these things?
24:01 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of variables.
24:03 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we'll just nature, right, the genetics of it all.
24:06 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that
24:07 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we can talk about, you know, birth order theory.
24:11 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is like, even just to say, it's pretty outdated.
24:14 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I know when we were prepping for another episode, we were talking about like cherry picking theories that we use, but development is like, it really is like a moving target because so much is changing.
24:24 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when these theories were developed, there weren't a lot of blended families.
24:29 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what happens if you're an only child and then at the age of twelve, you get four five brothers and sisters through a marriage, right?
24:36 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what?
24:37 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you land in birth or to theory?
24:39 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Then what happens when you start layering parent?
24:42 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a parenting.
24:43 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And there is about discipline and control over parenting on top of these theories.
24:48 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Like where does that plan?
24:50 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're in a family of five people, if you're five kids in your family, for sure, it's a more authoritarian family, like a disciplinary based family system that is if you only have one kid.
25:07 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_00]: why for sure.
25:08 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Just because there's more people to keep in line.
25:10 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You mean you just have to have a little more structure.
25:12 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You're saying to make things work.
25:13 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I think.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there's that's a version.
25:16 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that if that did happen.
25:18 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I could also say it's chaos or whatever.
25:20 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you need rules in order.
25:22 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, I am in a triad family.
25:24 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's my husband and my daughter and me and like our dog, but I love your rusty, but you don't count here.
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of we have friends that are a family of six.
25:33 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And they, they're lining up, this is breakfast.
25:36 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't want it, you don't need like breakfast set on the table at eight o'clock.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_02]: That's when you're eating this breakfast.
25:41 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: No picky eaters when you're the, the four, and like that's not how it is in my house.
25:46 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's different.
25:47 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's even just, okay, I have two kids.
25:50 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: They're three years apart.
25:51 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You could.
25:53 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine though, let's say you had a second kid.
25:56 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, birth order, oldest youngest, your daughter's already double digit age.
26:01 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So the difference between, she's like an auntie to your little kid more than she is a big sister in some ways, right?
26:06 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So birth order theory can only explain some things because there's just so many infinite variables.
26:13 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The genetic kind of predisposition of someone personality, like I think meeting outgoing
26:20 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_00]: might have something to do with me being the youngest relative to my brother, but it has a lot to do.
26:24 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_00]: My brother's a scientist.
26:26 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
26:26 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's something inherent to his mode of being as a human that probably was going to be there regardless of him being, oh, the serious older kid.
26:36 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was a good student.
26:37 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just my whole vibe was different, right?
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Dang.
26:40 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my sister's a chemist, too.
26:42 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I didn't realize we had that in common, but there is a lot
26:45 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I always look at her and look at me and think like, how did we, our parents were raised in the same house with the same parents with the same media exposure, the same food, the same environmental influences, same parenting structures, and yet still were so completely different.
27:03 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you look at like twin studies and split separated at birth and raised with different families and they're still very different.
27:09 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll give a shout out to one of my favorite documentaries called Three Identical Strangers.
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever seen that?
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I'm giving you.
27:16 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Are they separated at birth or something?
27:18 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like they're adopted by different families.
27:21 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_02]: But they were done.
27:22 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They were placed in family strategically for research to research parenting styles and to research long-term outcomes.
27:30 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
27:30 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they found each other like in the wild.
27:33 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_02]: They like were walking down the street and well, I had a college campus and someone was like, hey, I thought you like dropped out.
27:38 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, what are you talking about?
27:40 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_02]: This is my first day here.
27:41 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, you have my gosh.
27:42 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they found the twins found each other.
27:44 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they like, it was in the newspaper.
27:47 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the third one was like, I'm a triplet.
27:50 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm part of, I'm a triplet with you.
27:51 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I was adopted by the same place.
27:53 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And there was quite a frenzy in the nineteen eighties, like a big media tour.
27:58 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And check it out.
27:59 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Twin studies are like a treasure trove of scientific data, right?
28:02 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_00]: For like nature versus nurture.
28:03 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like one day we're going to find it artists that happens to have a twin or something.
28:09 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to deep dive on twins.
28:10 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be got it, right?
28:11 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So cool.
28:12 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So interesting, but it's ethically, we're sparing on season two.
28:17 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's ethically kind of fucked up, right?
28:20 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_02]: To like, we'll for sure.
28:22 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't really separate people at birth to study them, right?
28:26 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Like we can't do that.
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, not on purpose.
28:29 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:29 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_02]: But they did in this twin study, this triplet study, multiple cells.
28:32 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_02]: For the sake of the science or the sake of the science and not just these triplets, they were like maybe thirty or forty different sets.
28:38 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they were being put up for adoption and they made the decision instead of finding one home that will take all three will split them.
28:45 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
28:45 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And they did that for multiple twin pairs, multiple twin sets.
28:49 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when the the movie came out,
28:52 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_02]: People were like, oh, I was adopted by that same agency.
28:54 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me do the twenty three in me and see if I have a genetic match and they found each other.
28:59 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And the records of that study are sealed until like twenty sixty five or something because they need to wait for all the twin sets to die before they can release the findings.
29:11 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that fucked up?
29:13 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
29:13 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm giving you so many movies to watch, but three identical strangers, it's gonna, it's wild.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just wild.
29:20 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, everybody, take a look.
29:21 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's craziness.
29:22 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're in my general psychology class in the fall, don't watch it until we talk about it, because we're in this assignment, so.
29:28 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna watch it in class on a rainy day.
29:31 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
29:31 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_00]: When recesses cancel.
29:32 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
29:33 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Nicole's just gonna put the deal in the TV.
29:34 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Professor Vacher is just gonna wheel in the old CRT TV from the AV room.
29:40 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
29:40 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But I went to my students who are logging because I can't so that I just play the video.
29:45 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We're ready to talk about the music.
29:46 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
29:46 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
29:47 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This is interesting though.
29:49 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's going to connect to the melody.
29:50 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fascinating.
29:51 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about symmetry and reflections over axes.
29:56 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish they were twins.
29:57 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be so much better.
29:58 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The Gallagher.
29:58 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_02]: They're close though.
30:00 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Five years.
30:01 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not close to me.
30:02 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of labor.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Five years.
30:04 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_02]: She did it.
30:05 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to talk about the melody.
30:07 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The song is simple, it's singable.
30:09 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The chord progression, the strummy strummy patterns awesome, but let's figure out why.
30:15 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's first just call out that this is mostly pentatonic.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what a pentatonic scale is?
30:22 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It has five parts.
30:23 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Five notes.
30:24 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this and do you remember what episode?
30:27 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_02]: The one we talked about
30:29 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Miley Cyrus.
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Miley Cyrus.
30:31 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Party in the USA.
30:33 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
30:34 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a listen.
30:34 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an A pentatonic scale.
30:36 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_00]: A major pentatonic scale.
30:44 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Compare that to an A major scale.
30:50 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Similar.
30:51 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But the pentatonic is simpler fewer notes.
30:55 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They've subtracted all the half steps.
30:57 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of feel like it's richer, too.
30:59 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
31:00 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'd say that cluster of all the notes together.
31:03 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's so pretty.
31:04 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:06 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like Hamilton Hamilton.
31:08 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Hamilton.
31:09 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this song from Hamilton, which one of the songs, where she, where the sisters, they're getting married and then she like goes back and like talks about how she met her.
31:17 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that song is so good.
31:19 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that song called?
31:21 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Helpless.
31:23 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like into the middle of that.
31:25 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_02]: It like yeah, like it goes back to the start, like they get married and then like she rewinds it.
31:32 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Should we go to Hamilton?
31:34 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's track pentatonic scales and Hamilton.
31:36 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: They're really everywhere.
31:38 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The instruments, the guitars, and even some of the vocal melody is just full on major.
31:42 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of the vocal melody is pentatonic.
31:45 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
31:46 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just part of the characteristics of what makes this so singable.
31:50 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember from Miley, pentatonic scales are almost universal across cultures.
31:55 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just playground, nursery rhymes, are often pentatonic.
31:59 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just something simple and easy and catchy about them.
32:03 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I want to talk about is how the notes in the melody interact with each other and sort of grow over the chorus of the song.
32:11 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with the chorus of the song.
32:36 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It is kind of whiny, huh?
32:37 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I, to be clear, I really like the song.
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I like the song.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I even really liked it back then.
32:43 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like the vibe.
32:45 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, well, he's has that nasal John Lennon song.
32:47 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Sound that's so cool.
32:50 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This song though, not very Lennon, right?
32:53 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The strumming pattern, not very Beatles.
32:55 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, can I just tell you where we're going here?
32:58 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
32:58 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: This whole melody is set up as notes orbiting an axis, notes reflected around an axis.
33:07 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, if we have an A,
33:10 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll be a note three notes up and then a note three notes down.
33:15 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say we have a B. There would be a note one note up and a note one note down.
33:19 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's constantly shifting around showing us two reflections.
33:23 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_00]: We get almost using a term from other podcasts that we've done.
33:27 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We could almost say they are inversions.
33:29 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're getting melodic inversions.
33:31 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The melodies
33:33 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_00]: or two parts that are upside down, we call that inverted.
33:37 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like they're rooted to one stable force, like one Wonderwall.
33:41 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, whatever Wonderwall means, sometimes it is on an unstable note, sometimes it is a stable.
33:47 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, man.
33:48 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically think a mirror that notes are being reflected over, each section is that in the song.
33:54 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost every single one.
33:55 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: There's only one exception.
33:56 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so let's just listen, focus on the first part of the chorus.
34:01 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So, because maybe it's just two notes, C sharp and A. How many letter names are A and C from each other?
34:10 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Two, A, B, C. We say three, right?
34:15 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And then this is where we go ABCDFG and go back to A, right?
34:19 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the alphabet.
34:20 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What about F and A?
34:22 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: F G A. Unless you're in London, then you have an H. No, that's in Berlin, Germany, right?
34:29 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_00]: London, that's just English.
34:31 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Germany has H, right?
34:34 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: In London it would be H, right?
34:36 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So F to A is also a third.
34:38 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So A up three notes is C or in this case C sharp A down three notes is F in this case F sharp.
34:44 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So because maybe you're going to be the one that saves me gives us two reflections above the stable A. Take a listen.
34:53 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_06]: You gotta be the one that saves me.
35:03 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We keep coming back to the A, popping up a three and down a three.
35:07 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that they like, I always ask you this and you never know the answer, but do you think they do that?
35:11 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they don't.
35:12 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they don't.
35:13 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they don't.
35:14 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they don't.
35:14 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they're like the sounds.
35:15 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think it's a Panasonic melody that orbits certain notes.
35:20 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It hits certain notes with a lot of emphasis.
35:23 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, though, every single section except for literally one line conforms to one of that.
35:28 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe it's kind of on purpose, but they're not thinking of it as a reflection of an inversion.
35:32 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's just like what it's happening.
35:34 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_02]: You do just like even though you're you're the youngest and we know that younger siblings are more generally more outgoing.
35:41 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a causal correlation.
35:42 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Just is that's just like the way it is.
35:46 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that I'm youngest is not what caused me probably, but I sure as heck don't disperse.
35:51 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
35:52 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The theory, right?
35:53 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So there may not be doing this on purpose.
35:55 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just kind of naturally happening because they exist in a world that pentatonic scales are out there and they were influenced by it without them knowing their influence.
36:02 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like some element of what I'm doing, that null, or that what I'm talking about, that null was trying to do.
36:08 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He just probably wasn't reflecting the melody over the end.
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it doesn't.
36:12 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you know what we should do here is like a pentatonic inversion.
36:16 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Which doesn't matter.
36:17 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And that would be dumb, right?
36:18 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
36:19 --> 36:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And nobody, the thing is nobody really does that.
36:22 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody goes to me.
36:24 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody goes to me.
36:24 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sometimes I'm like, hey, what would it be like if I wrote a song that did this, but people aren't time to do a motivic transformation.
36:31 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to transpose up.
36:33 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It takes like avant-garde kind of puzzlely kind of music to really want to do that.
36:38 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, people are writing songs.
36:40 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It does intuition.
36:42 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But even if you know what you're doing it, you're not like, that's not the end of itself.
36:47 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
36:47 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, a reflection will be.
36:48 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, now you could say we talked about word painting, where, um, the hymriacari note, you know, was on a word that would fit that or like deeper than the whatever was a low note.
37:00 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You could do this trying to be cute.
37:02 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the word mirror, I'm gonna do a reflection, but yeah.
37:05 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They're probably just intuitively writing it.
37:07 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean it's not there for us to observe, though.
37:09 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of like free will versus determinism.
37:13 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put a pin on that conversation.
37:15 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild, okay?
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
37:17 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so the second half of the chorus.
37:19 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And after all, you're my wonderwall, right?
37:21 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that means.
37:24 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_00]: This time, the axis we have now is C sharp.
37:27 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We go up CDE.
37:30 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get CBA going down.
37:33 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So they do the same thing because they step this time.
37:36 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't jump.
37:36 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They step up to the third and then they step down and you're going to hear it reflected again just over the C sharp instead of over the A.
37:57 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That, of course, uses the major scale that parts not pentatonic.
38:01 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What do thing?
38:01 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We buy on what I'm selling.
38:02 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
38:03 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Simple, right?
38:04 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:04 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing too special.
38:17 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: This happens throughout the song, except for one moment.
38:20 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we do that, two examples.
38:22 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
38:23 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: One more artsy-fartsy than the other.
38:25 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Sound garden.
38:27 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_00]: which you know, I love, I've mentioned them before.
38:30 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They actually have a lot of kind of prog, rock, progressive medical kind of my way here today on the radio.
38:35 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Great song.
38:36 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't do what we're talking about.
38:37 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're next album down on the upside, in nineteen ninety six, this song Switch opens.
38:42 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_00]: If we think of the access as being A.
38:45 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to fall down a third and then climb up a third just in the same way and a minor third down and a minor third up.
38:52 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That means it's exactly the same distance.
38:55 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And because it's sound garden also, it's going to change from five eight to four four, etc.
39:01 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
39:01 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The song's called Switch opens if I didn't know you say that.
39:20 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you can hear it.
39:21 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a reflection of the same thing.
39:25 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I love a compound meter, too.
39:28 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: No compound meter.
39:29 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, whatever, dude.
39:30 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying my best.
39:31 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Compound meter.
39:31 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me an example of compound meter.
39:32 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Like a six eight.
39:34 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Just for six eight.
39:35 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Five eight.
39:36 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I miss her two.
39:37 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Four four changing to five eight.
39:39 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So a complex meter.
39:40 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
39:41 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was pretty, pretty close though.
39:42 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's something.
39:44 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_00]: There's three different types of meter.
39:47 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
39:48 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the other types.
39:49 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't even talked about it.
39:51 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't even talked about it.
39:52 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
39:52 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Rosanna, nineteen eighty two, Toto.
39:55 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This time our axis is B. We go G A B and then D C B. So we go from a third.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It's often a third because it's singable.
40:04 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Climbing up to our axis and then a third above falling down.
40:18 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:19 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good one.
40:20 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good one.
40:20 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That one might come up because it also has gnarly key changes.
40:23 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_00]: My ring that's on back and at a time notoriously hard drum part.
40:27 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's like, is, hiccupie.
40:29 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: A little hiccupie.
40:30 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:30 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that a technical term?
40:32 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, technically, combabiter.
40:34 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I used to set me up for that, and I still like to.
40:36 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a twelve eight.
40:37 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The Rosana group.
40:38 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, eight.
40:38 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's twelve eight.
40:39 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:40 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
40:40 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So what about your simplify it though?
40:42 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Can't you simplify that fraction?
40:46 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Into.
40:46 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So twelve eight would be like fourth.
40:49 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_02]: You're a judge.
40:52 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is a good podcasting, right?
40:55 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you simplify it, be three over two.
40:59 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Three two.
40:59 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the three two means three half notes per bar.
41:02 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Twelve eight has three, three half notes per bar.
41:05 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But this time signature tells you which things are the beat.
41:09 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you just randomly simplify the numbers, you're giving yourself four four.
41:12 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You're adding more measures.
41:14 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Four four simplifies to be what?
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_02]: One, one, one, one.
41:17 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is useless music like this.
41:19 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's technically correct.
41:20 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It does one whole note, but it doesn't tell us anything about the meter.
41:23 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not trying to write the simplest fraction.
41:25 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to tell people about the meter.
41:27 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not trying to write the simplest fraction.
41:29 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody all pops songs are in one one now.
41:31 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine.
41:32 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
41:33 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: What about the rest of the song?
41:34 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Wonderwall.
41:35 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:35 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What about the rest of the song?
41:37 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's listen back to the beginning.
41:38 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: This is verse one.
41:41 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think?
41:43 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_06]: It is what we're talking about here
42:01 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
42:01 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a two-day.
42:03 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a little flat there on purpose.
42:04 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a C natural instead of a C sharp.
42:06 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I was having a hard time tracking because the fastest time is dissonant though.
42:09 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's B. It's not the A. Day two day is gonna be.
42:15 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a step above and a step below.
42:17 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:17 --> 42:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's acting over the B, but the B is not stable, right?
42:22 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So if we just simplified that, put it just on the piano.
42:30 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: There's two versions of the C, right?
42:32 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's all orbiting our B this time, right?
42:37 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so wild, because usually when you play it on the piano, I can still map it back to the original song.
42:42 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds nothing like it.
42:43 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That was good.
42:45 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That was good.
42:46 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Two days was gone, right?
42:47 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that now it goes.
42:50 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_00]: When we did the all the I will survive things.
42:52 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was speeding up the baseline, so we like to sit for ten seconds.
42:56 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
42:56 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_02]: What about the next ten seconds?
42:57 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
42:58 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What about the next section?
43:00 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, oh my God.
43:02 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_00]: One of my friends listens to this podcast.
43:05 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
43:06 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
43:07 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh, thank you.
43:07 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Josh.
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_00]: On one point nine speed.
43:09 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_02]: You were telling us before.
43:11 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I put that on Mike.
43:12 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.
43:13 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.
43:14 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: One point nine.
43:15 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I talk fast, everybody.
43:17 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine if I'm talking twice?
43:18 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I talk so fast.
43:20 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
43:21 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh, if you're listening.
43:23 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Just heard your name slow down and appreciate the name listen to your name at half speed Josh Okay, you can go back to one point nine.
43:33 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_00]: No cool all right, so what's a main sense for him?
43:37 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you play on the piano?
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_00]: If you slow it down, it wouldn't be fun.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just make a podcast just for Josh.
43:45 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Just saying everything slowly, so it sounds great.
43:49 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so here's the second half of the verse.
43:50 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
43:58 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So this one's a little juice here, a little spice here.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We got more stuff going on.
44:01 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Pentatonix scale here.
44:02 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's still, if the axis is the B, it's still just an exact reflection going up the Pentatonix scale.
44:10 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So B, C, sharp, EF, you reflect that over B. You get B, A, F, sharp, E. So it's like, did they try to do this?
44:18 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably not, but why is it actually completely work for every single section except for one that we'll get to think about that too much.
44:23 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Mark, did they try to do it that way?
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's right.
44:26 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I just did it because it sounds good, man.
44:27 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Famously, I'm always interrupting the podcast asking, did they do this on purpose, Mr. Poppony?
44:32 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:33 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So why are you so like a dope in your minds?
44:35 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
44:36 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what I said?
44:40 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:41 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just auto tune in a little sound cool.
44:43 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
44:44 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So the weird part about these sections is that the access point in the chorus is A, which is the tonic.
44:51 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:52 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The verse is it's always B. You said such a Boston accent when you said that.
44:56 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa, which word?
44:56 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The weird pot.
44:58 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The weird pot.
44:59 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_00]: The weird pot.
45:00 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:01 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Your mother's here.
45:03 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark.
45:04 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
45:05 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark.
45:05 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark sees enough.
45:06 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Your mom's here.
45:06 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
45:07 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
45:08 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The only section that doesn't fit this axis theme is the pre-chorus, which is this bit.
45:26 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And in typical pre-chorus fashion, it's kind of teasing it.
45:30 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it doesn't feel finished.
45:32 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason it doesn't work is because it's only four notes.
45:34 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_00]: As sharp G sharp A, B, and you can't really have an axis.
45:37 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But if I'm like when we did the Nirvana episode, and I was really forcing it, trying to make the point on my paper.
45:45 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly, we get more sets of notes that finish the axis.
45:49 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We get an odd number eventually.
45:59 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So without getting into too much, we have the lower tetra cord.
46:03 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
46:04 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Four note group.
46:05 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_00]: F sharp G sharp A, B, and then, and then we have A, B, C sharp, which is added later.
46:10 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So technically, they're still all revolving around a tetra, tetra cord.
46:15 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_00]: A lower four notes and then an upper four notes that link up on the A. So it still has seven total notes, but it's just they're using the major scale.
46:23 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really just forcing it to go for the pre-chorus.
46:26 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But we then finally get the chorus and the chorus is our most simple version of our reflection, up a third, down a third.
46:56 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I wish Noll knew that Liam was his Wonderwall.
46:59 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
47:00 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he's going to be the one that saves him.
47:03 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_02]: After all.
47:04 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But he's writing it for Liam to sing it.
47:10 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:11 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like he's trying his own way, but your my Wonderwall or is Liam singing it to Noll.
47:19 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_02]: or maybe noils like trying to get Liam to sing it to him.
47:23 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, that's very older brother predatory behavior, right?
47:26 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
47:26 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_00]: The sort of like,
47:28 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Sphinxer says what kind of stuff.
47:29 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, say you think I'm your Wonderwall.
47:32 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:32 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:33 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:33 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:33 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:33 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You love me.
47:34 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it.
47:35 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Stop it yourself.
47:35 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Stop it yourself, right?
47:36 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your Wonderwall.
47:38 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: This is all to say the elaborate trap.
47:41 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And he sets himself up.
47:42 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen them live.
47:44 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Does he force?
47:45 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a power moves based on where he has to stand?
47:47 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So who's he looking at?
47:49 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's the Wonderwall?
47:50 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Does no get to be the Wonderwall that Liam seeing or is it the opposite?
47:53 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
47:54 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I also, while you've been, it's been riveting this conversation, but I've also been deep-diving on their feud while like you've been talking, and I know so much of things.
48:05 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm paying attention.
48:06 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done on the music.
48:07 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
48:07 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The point being, helps make the song catchy.
48:11 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I really feel like it's orbiting the note feels contained cohesive.
48:16 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, give me the deal.
48:17 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So even before their worldwide fame, they had a bad relationship.
48:23 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And there was like bootleg recordings of them arguing about like the something that happened on the US tour that they went on.
48:33 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think for this album, and it really was just kind of spiraled out of control, then there's something that the internet's calling the morning glory incident during the recording of their second album, a disagreement over bringing power.
48:46 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, bring a disagreement over bringing pubgoers into the studio, which I don't understand.
48:53 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Let a physical fight where Noel allegedly hit Liam with a cricket bat, which seems like too British to me.
49:00 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_00]: A cricket bat.
49:02 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, apparently, Noel plays bass on this song instead of Paul, not Paul, their older brother, but the bassist in the band, which pissed Liam off.
49:11 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it pissed Paul off, but
49:14 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, who does that?
49:15 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why do you like it?
49:16 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's very Billy Corgan or very Beagle.
49:18 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And what was the base page you were going on?
49:20 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And I recorded your entire part.
49:22 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And the base page is like out in the back, smoking a cigarette during this.
49:26 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know, there's more to that.
49:28 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_00]: The listeners, what you're hearing is
49:30 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_00]: a lack of deep research.
49:32 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_00]: These are just single line films we found.
49:35 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, see mine's not.
49:36 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:37 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:37 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not that much.
49:38 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Not that much.
49:39 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that much.
49:40 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Jackie, P.T.
49:40 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Not Jackie, P.T.
49:41 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you accurate in your salacious details?
49:44 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_02]: In essence, the Oasis feud was a complex interplay of personality, creative differences, and sibling dynamics, but ultimately led to the band's demise, a deck in a decades long conflict between Liam and Noel Gallagher.
49:57 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That's chat GPT right there.
49:58 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm million percent.
49:59 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
50:00 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all.
50:01 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But spoken by a human being.
50:02 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, it's really- So it's like there's a layer of authenticity to it.
50:10 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Popney.
50:13 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I also produce.
50:16 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We're never music pot on social media.
50:22 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
50:27 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is part of the lorehounds network.
50:30 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
50:36 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.