Are you ever glad you *didn’t* go to a show? This week, we don’t regret listening to the 2013 jam “If I Could Change Your Mind” by the sisters of HAIM. Nichole gets into the reasons our mind feels major fear of missing out, while Mark gets into how this song’s melody and harmony interact to create some expert pacing.
Other music heard in this episode: HAIM - “The Wire”, HAIM - “Now I’m In It”, Savage Garden - “I Want You”, HAIM - “Little of Your Love”, Fleetwood Mac - “Everywhere”, HAIM - “You Never Knew”, HAIM - “Don’t Save Me”, Sheryl Crow - “Soak Up the Sun”, HAIM - “I’ve Been Down”, Annie Lennox - “Walking on Broken Glass”, HAIM - “Found it in Silence”, HAIM - “Cry”, “Seasons of Love” from Rent
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's everywhere again.
00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna tell you what you should be listening for.
00:04 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Mark.
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about it.
00:05 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but.
00:07 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't, my guess doesn't suit everybody.
00:10 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
00:10 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, my answer is like four.
00:12 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm man's planning.
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Or we can listen.
00:14 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Experts in the field, you can say this is an audio form.
00:17 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I can play the song and then say, what did you hear in a call?
00:20 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And then you don't get it right.
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it right.
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it right.
00:24 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody, Jesus Christ.
00:27 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not man's planning.
00:28 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_05]: I am man's planning.
00:29 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_05]: I am man's planning.
00:30 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But I am the musician.
00:31 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you are.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know.
00:33 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
00:34 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm asking.
00:46 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:47 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Mark.
00:47 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_04]: And this doesn't ever mind the music.
00:49 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: What are we gonna talk about today, Mark?
00:52 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we are talking about, apparently, the most shazamned indie rock track of 2014.
00:58 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_09]: Ooh!
01:20 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, you've been on a ham journey the past couple years.
01:24 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm like lahim Oh, I think it's a related word.
01:29 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's time.
01:30 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Does their name?
01:31 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not but not him and it's generally capital H capital A capital I capital Oh, tricky tricky tricky and yes, yes, Indie rock sort of pop rock
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: most shazam'd track from 2014 of that category.
01:46 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So, do you shazam, do you or did you?
01:49 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't, you shazam, and I often forget that it exists in the world.
01:55 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes it's like read down a little bit.
01:56 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_05]: No, I have to have, I just forget that it's like a thing that is accessible to me.
02:01 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I'm always like, oh, I wonder what that song is and someone's like just shazam it.
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, all right, like I can just do that.
02:07 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I always forget that that's an option.
02:08 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: you're like doing a melodic dictation and trying to compare it again.
02:11 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, publish the music.
02:12 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
02:13 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
02:14 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually wish there was a Sam where I could hear a melody because like, I'll hear a tune and it'll stick in my head.
02:20 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't have the recording to slam.
02:22 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you could enter it in as notation, if you could read music, and then it'll tell you what songs it could be, that would be awesome.
02:28 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be a crazy hard to do though.
02:30 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And like it's that's appealing to a pretty small audience.
02:33 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
02:34 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're developing it up.
02:35 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you could imagine 2014 pop indie rock track, this is kind of catnip for me with the like sense in the background and the funky palm muted.
02:43 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They call it a bubble part.
02:44 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: They're, th, th, th, th, th, guitar part, vocal harmonies, what's store?
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: with this, because that's when you shazam.
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I still do have shazam.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't use it that much.
02:53 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's when I'm in like Christmas shopping and I hear like a really awesome indie pop song.
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, who is that?
02:59 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
02:59 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So where would this play that would have been shazamed more than any other indie rock song in the year?
03:06 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, probably like an urban outfit or is there something?
03:09 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what I was going to say.
03:11 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Urban outfit or certain, certain mall stops.
03:15 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
03:15 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Like a store.
03:17 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not CVS.
03:17 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that kind of thing.
03:18 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's two mainstream.
03:20 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_05]: We want something that like you're shopping there because you want something that's like folky and stands out.
03:25 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe even like an anthropology.
03:27 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
03:28 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Or like a made well store or something which is very on the nose, brands.
03:33 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_05]: If you know, you know, there's a very,
03:36 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not, they're not playing like actual experimental.
03:39 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like indie pop.
03:41 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:41 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:42 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_05]: So like an altered state, even.
03:44 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
03:44 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So the song is kind of a random maybe choice for this podcast, not as famous as some of the other stuff.
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really have gotten into this band.
03:53 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I like this band a lot.
03:54 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: They're very good.
03:54 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I wanted to do one of their songs.
03:56 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And part of why I've deep dove so much into this is this band became a tailor alternative for my daughter in the car.
04:04 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: after one of our laps through the entire of the time.
04:09 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you just need something else.
04:12 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'm not going to even ask.
04:13 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to put on this other band.
04:16 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
04:17 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And I tend to to counter like honestly though there's so many mostly female pop stars these days, but to counter a lot of the music that her brother wants to listen to.
04:25 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:26 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll choose like a
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Girl group or something, like we're also listening to Paramore and stuff like that.
04:31 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Paramore is very, very good.
04:32 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like, wait, this is rocking, but it's, you know, and you enjoy it.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And I enjoy, well, that's the thing.
04:37 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where this all started.
04:38 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It was try to, the Beatles were a way to get off the kid music train years ago, right?
04:44 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So this band actually has no hits on the Billboard Hot 100, but their albums have done well.
04:48 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So this one, this is their first record from their first record, Days are Gone, from 2013.
04:56 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: The second one with number seven, third, number 13, and the new one, I quit, which was last year, went to number 25.
05:04 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, this is one of those, like, critically acclaimed groups, like, they were best new artist, Grammany nominated for the year for this album that year, 2014 Grammys.
05:14 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the women
05:22 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I quit the new album, the upcoming Grammys, which upcoming for us when we are recording this, but has happened when this will air was nominated for rock album of the year.
05:35 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So they haven't won any of those yet, so we'll see at the point maybe they did.
05:39 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they did.
05:40 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to project into the future and say congratulations to them for winning the pop or the rock album, rock album, and not even pop album.
05:48 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so they're definitely a band and they rock sometimes, but they pop also, so like, rock pop.
05:55 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They're a soft rock or pop rock group, I would say.
05:58 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is, so this one, written by the band, the three sisters, we'll talk about that.
06:02 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure
06:03 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: with James Ford who also produced the song.
06:05 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of why we get to talk about it aside from I love the vibe.
06:09 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It did reach number 42 on the Billboard rock charts.
06:12 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
06:13 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a moderate hit in the rock community and that tells you there are rock band right.
06:17 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They score higher on that chart than on the pop chart.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_05]: But this isn't their most well known song.
06:23 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so from that album, the wiring forever, we're actually higher.
06:26 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_01]: The wire is just a little bit.
06:27 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Very, very good song.
06:28 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those are both good songs.
06:29 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially the wire.
06:31 --> 06:31 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
06:46 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of they're still in that mid-range rock charts 20s, 30s kind of thing.
06:55 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Their highest ever is now I min it from 2019.
07:12 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Which sounds like that savage guard at song?
07:29 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll pipe it in later.
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't have it cut up, but I like little of your love.
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_05]: That's like one of my favorites.
07:34 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good song.
07:35 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_09]: That's very almost motowny, right?
07:52 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_09]: So don't let me go I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you baby I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you
08:05 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm in it and also I want you back.
08:07 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm in it.
08:07 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_05]: No, I want you back is so good too.
08:09 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm in it hit number nine.
08:10 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: What you back hit number 10, right?
08:12 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's good.
08:13 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm in it.
08:14 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like as much as any of those other ones, but once you back school.
08:17 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
08:18 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So like they have a few hits, but even then that's the rock charts, right?
08:21 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
08:22 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
08:22 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, though, I had some things I wanted to say about this song.
08:26 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's cool.
08:26 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Y'all should listen to them.
08:28 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're doing this episode.
08:29 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_04]: We're doing it.
08:30 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And before we get into what we're really talking about, this may be one of those like Mark just wants to play clips.
08:37 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to keep people.
08:39 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do want to call that one.
08:41 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: significant aspect to their sound.
08:44 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of what's cool about it.
08:45 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully this doesn't run a foul of our conversation on homage being actually plagiarism from a couple of weeks back.
08:53 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think basically, so Lee vocalists Danielle Hein.
08:58 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: She's the middle sister.
08:59 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She also stands in the middle.
09:01 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: She's also this kind of more shredder on the guitar and a good drummer and stuff.
09:05 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_01]: They do stand in height order, which I think is cute.
09:07 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk more about their
09:10 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: but other the other sisters sing lead sometimes but she's the primary singer and she very clearly to me is pain homage evoking other famous female artists and I don't know anything without me even saying who I think does anything jump to mine for you?
09:27 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I feel like Cheryl Crow, a lot of more set.
09:30 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Cheryl Crow, 100% alanus, maybe a little less snarled to something.
09:36 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Like just, japan, e, cv, nix, I'm just thinking of iconic.
09:40 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, so females.
09:41 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is not, you know, other people have written about this, but also they're owning it.
09:46 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: They're third album is called Women in Music Part 3.
09:48 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:49 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so many of those songs are omages stylistically.
09:52 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just zero in on a few that I think could work.
09:56 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: First one, I think, is the one that jumped out to me first, which is Christine McVay from Street Mac.
10:01 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_06]: And here's Christine McVay singing The Fleetwood Mac Tune, 1987's Everywhere.
10:31 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_09]: And here's you never knew by time from 2017.
11:04 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's this like ethereal syncopation.
11:14 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Synco.
11:14 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: There's definitely a lot of syncopation, but just the tone of her voice is from dark.
11:18 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Ethereal works.
11:19 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's another example.
11:20 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, I think sounds a lot like Christine McVee.
11:22 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't save me from 2013.
11:24 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The song Vibalize is a little more high energy than that sort of thing though.
11:30 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_09]: I see you with a o Too bad Give it up, give it up to me Cause I can't go wrong If you love it, it's strong
11:52 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, their tones are similar.
11:53 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she's reading more as Cheryl Crow to me on that example, as far as, like, tonal.
11:57 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, we'll get there.
11:58 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:59 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: See, I hear a lot of Christine McVee there, but we'll get to Cheryl Crow.
12:03 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just very, really realize that Cheryl Crow's awesome.
12:06 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Same, actually.
12:07 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I never, like always looked her song, but she's quite awesome.
12:11 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Listen to, like, her.
12:12 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_05]: like I just one after the other, I'm like, Wow, she's just a lie.
12:15 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I never listened to a Cheryl Crow record until a few months ago.
12:18 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_05]: And really read by greatest hitst records, like Carol King's tapestry all over again.
12:22 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Forgotten a lot of the songs.
12:23 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and they're good.
12:24 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of the fleet, would Mac thing, Hime is apparently co-writing a song with Stevie Nicks.
12:29 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That might actually be out by the time it's like it.
12:32 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I just checked it has not come out as of our recording.
12:34 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm in TV nicks and Taylor Swift are for sure hanging out with each other.
12:38 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like a made-up thing.
12:39 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_05]: They definitely get together and hang out and talk about being women in music.
12:43 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm... And Stevie has said nice things about them in the past.
12:46 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_01]: She even, they played together.
12:48 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know the Stevie Nicks solo song?
12:50 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, it's a duet with Tom Petty.
12:52 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Stop dragging my heart around.
12:53 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
12:54 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_01]: They played that live with her and the food fighters.
12:59 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Like as the band playing it and they were singing with her like and then and Add a tribute when Christine McVee died Next play I don't know if she played it or someone performed it or just they played the song Somehow their song Hala Luyah I'm song was used in tribute to McVee So I wish I was at that food fighter show
13:23 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's on YouTube.
13:24 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see I don't know the context that like what?
13:27 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the story there?
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, YouTube is not the same.
13:30 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, you mentioned Cheryl Crow.
13:32 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_01]: If anybody doesn't know Cheryl Crow, here's soak up the sun, one of her big hits, two thousand two.
13:37 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_09]: It's not having what you want.
13:41 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_09]: It's wanting what you got.
13:47 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna soak up the sun.
13:52 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna tell everyone to lie tonight.
13:58 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that's not even her best song.
14:00 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a great example of like her tone.
14:02 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Her tone, their tones are like clean.
14:05 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_05]: They have just nice, clean tone.
14:08 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, your tone.
14:09 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So listen, this is time.
14:10 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been down from 2020.
14:11 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_09]: What do you even pick me out in the crowd?
14:17 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_09]: Cause I can't recognize myself now.
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm just under the way hell.
14:20 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_09]: You can't cool me out out there.
14:30 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_05]: You said it's no stupid.
14:32 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_01]: There you shall, Creole.
14:33 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So good.
14:33 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_05]: And then also you have to remember that we have a schema in our heads about what a long-haired white woman with a guitar is going to sound like they match.
14:49 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know what I mean?
14:50 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Like aesthetically, they match each other.
14:51 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how about the third person I was about to talk about any Lennox?
14:55 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a different.
14:56 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a different.
14:57 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe sometimes, but I don't think generally speaking, any Lennox, here's any Lennox, walking on Broken Glass.
15:04 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Right, thumbs are so good.
15:06 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_05]: We need to be listening to more of this.
15:07 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_09]: 1992, yeah.
15:32 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, time is like the middle of a venn diagram of all three of those.
15:37 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:38 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, so when he was founded in silence from 2017, he thinks sounds a lot like Annie Lennox.
16:01 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Another great song, and it's the arrangement here, like, if you put the strings, chug and strings, and this goes back to our episode, if you haven't listened to it yet from a couple weeks ago, like, if we take copyright law enforcement too strictly, what good art doesn't get made.
16:25 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
16:25 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_01]: If the vibe of Andy Lennox is walking on broken glass, if you're too close to the vibe, you get sued.
16:31 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
16:31 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_09]: You're not copying the lyrics.
16:34 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
16:34 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, right?
16:35 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So we can think about that as we hear artists that are referential.
16:38 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And this band, I think one of their new singles relationships sounds like Janet Jackson, like they first of all, Danielle Hione has a lot of control over her voice.
16:48 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_01]: She can kind of just make it sound like whatever.
16:50 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
16:55 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that was great.
16:56 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You come up with that.
16:57 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you show up?
16:58 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you're up with it just now
17:12 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_01]: so moving on.
17:13 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, this is a family band and everybody, we want to talk about family bands and a sidetrack coming up.
17:22 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But just in left to right order on stage, but reverse order age-wise is Alana, Danielle, and SD-Hime, right?
17:31 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So Danielle's vocals lead vocals usually with guitar and drums and stuff, and S.D.
17:37 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: is bass, and Alana is guitar and percussion and some other things like that.
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And they all sing.
17:42 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They're apparently in a band with their parents before they start the time.
17:47 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember what they're called.
17:49 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be pretty funny if that's true.
17:52 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But Danielle was a touring guitar player for Julian Consum Blancas.
17:56 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_05]: I have no clue who that is.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the Strokes guy.
18:00 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:00 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And okay, let's talk about them on stage.
18:03 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
18:04 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen Heinlein?
18:06 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't seen them last.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: No talking about it.
18:08 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is because you are quite lame.
18:11 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I am.
18:12 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we say it?
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that fair?
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened?
18:16 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We were going to go to see Heinlein.
18:17 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_01]: This was a few months back in the early fall.
18:20 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_05]: We weren't gunna go.
18:21 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like we had tickets like two days before the show.
18:24 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_05]: You were like, let's get tickets to see him.
18:26 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, we had talked about it.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you told me it was happening.
18:30 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_05]: I told you the show was happening because you said you were really into this band.
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_05]: It was like, they're coming on to our soon.
18:34 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we could go.
18:35 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_05]: And then like we never talked about it again.
18:37 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_05]: And then two days before the show, you're like, tickets are still available.
18:41 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go.
18:42 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_05]: But also that same day, two days prior in Nicole's world, I was poolside.
18:48 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And I drank too, it was full sigh of summer time.
18:51 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_05]: And I had drank too many highnoons.
18:52 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, you know, what we fun to do tomorrow night is go to see Benson Moon.
18:56 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And I bought Benson Moon tickets.
18:58 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_05]: And then the next day went to see it.
18:59 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't.
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So you were all booned out.
19:01 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_05]: I was so booned out.
19:02 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, I'll go.
19:03 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll go to see him.
19:04 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_05]: That sounds fun.
19:05 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But then I went to Benson Boon.
19:07 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And then I school started the next day, which was a poor decision to go to a concert before the first day of school.
19:13 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_05]: And then I remember that I'm old now.
19:15 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_05]: And I can't go see two concerts.
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I said you were lame.
19:19 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the same thing.
19:21 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel kind of cool, but I do feel lame now.
19:23 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I definitely feel like I missed out.
19:25 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_05]: I definitely, you'll never regret going to the show.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_05]: You'll always regret not going.
19:29 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Unless something terrible happens to you.
19:31 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Unless something terrible happens.
19:32 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_05]: You're never going to say,
19:34 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Even your bummer Colin Hay concert gave an interesting conversation for staff.
19:40 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_05]: And then I felt like the social pressure to go because I was like, oh, I'm pretty much your only friend.
19:45 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_05]: So who is he going to go with and he really wants to see the show and then I was like, I should go for him.
19:50 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I owe it to Mark.
19:52 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_05]: get it together.
19:54 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I had to increase the number of white dudes at the show.
19:58 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
19:58 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: The average was rather low.
20:00 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe that for an indie rock concert.
20:02 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So my friend Mike who's always down to go, he went with me.
20:05 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:05 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And he even knew how to like, no, let's wait till the last second attempt.
20:09 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to do it.
20:09 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you do.
20:10 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to be in the front area, you know, the standing ramp for four or four cheaper.
20:13 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_05]: There's a new venue I haven't been to yet.
20:14 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to come back to you.
20:16 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, they were good.
20:18 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_01]: They were really good.
20:19 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Who's your favorite
20:21 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, I think my favorite, this is like one of those very different from who is the best I'm sister.
20:28 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
20:29 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite I think is SD.
20:30 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Mine too.
20:31 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: SD people watch a video I love a bass player with a really intense stage vibe.
20:38 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: She does, my friend Mike called it in base face.
20:41 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: She just makes this like, she's just so into it.
20:45 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like transported to another world with her facial expression just so like feeling the music and she plays really well and she sings.
20:53 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: She actually has a song, you know, Daniel Heim is just so good as a front man, but she has a song on the new album that she's got pipes.
21:23 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, SD-Hime seems really well, and it's not that she seems better than Daniel.
21:28 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that it's like a different sound.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, wow, how is she not the youngest?
21:31 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_09]: She's the oldest.
21:33 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
21:33 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, I think of it always as like, there's the Taylor axis.
21:38 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:38 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I think like Daniel and Taylor are about the same age, and then SD's a couple years older.
21:43 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Alana's a couple years younger.
21:45 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, SD's and Taylor are closer friends.
21:48 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, interesting.
21:49 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
21:49 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_05]: I guess, I don't know, she has a song about her.
21:52 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And Alana's the one who's in like licorice pizza and in films and stuff, which I haven't seen yet, but people say that it's amazing.
21:57 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_05]: People talk about that movie, never.
22:00 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've seen it.
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's Paul Thomas Anderson and really critically, but like very indie.
22:04 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it has to be.
22:06 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But it's on brand, you know.
22:07 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to talk about the concert because a side from ST's base face being super exciting and I considered actually bringing my daughter and I'm glad I did not because it was not safe for work or like, like, like, literally, do you guys it was?
22:21 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_01]: literally that were like f-bombs projected on stage because there's a whole part of that I don't want to get into the new album that much because we're talking about their oldest album, but the album I quit is their new album and it's apparently the first time they've recorded a record all bitterly single or whatever, like someone's always been either in a relationship or married or whatever, bitterly single.
22:40 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, but I think that's the vibe they're taking.
22:43 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very like, we don't need you kind of a, that's what a lot of the song is not all of them, but it's a vibe.
22:48 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there was this I quit motif visually projected with lights that would sometimes be like, and fuck you with stuff like that.
22:56 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say it was that fucking, but it's just a kind of thing in my mind.
22:59 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I passed it.
23:00 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: where is the reason I didn't take her is like oh, it's going to be so late.
23:03 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: She's late.
23:04 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And they can see and like it can't see.
23:07 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's really tough.
23:09 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_05]: I bring my daughter a lot of concerts.
23:10 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_05]: I always say like bring your kids to shows like get them to life music.
23:13 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_05]: But like we need to be really mindful about where we sit.
23:16 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Just so she has visibility to the stage.
23:19 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So glad she didn't come, but two things I wanted to call out.
23:23 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Like in one of them, let's use a set up for our family band discussion.
23:28 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_01]: The vibe was so surprising.
23:31 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They're vibe as three sisters.
23:33 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet.
23:33 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Danielle is the lead vocalist.
23:36 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_01]: She is this powerful force on the guitar.
23:39 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Really good drummer, her voice can do anything.
23:42 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She probably said five words the entire time.
23:46 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: let's say she accounted for five percent of their banter.
23:49 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
23:49 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_01]: SD accounted for 15 more percent of their banter.
23:52 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And the little one who's also the littleist.
23:54 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:55 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And probably the least and this has nothing about her skill, but the least featured as an instrumentalist and a vocalist in the sense she has her songs too, but like she's not ripping and guitar solo.
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_01]: She's model rhythm guitar.
24:07 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_05]: She's like the personality higher.
24:09 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, Alana Haim, who, in Hollywood films, is the most chatty person in the world.
24:16 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like really cute and fun.
24:18 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, like, I can imagine, I was just picturing in my mind's eye as this was happening.
24:24 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle, just turning and being just shut the fuck up,
24:27 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's like, it was so much like a little sister vibe and it was so fascinating to for us to talk about like family bands in our sidetrack tune in next week.
24:36 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I was watching this, they, this like overlooked middle sister who's actually maybe the best one, but doesn't talk and the kind of commanding base face presence of STM, then just none stop, so like cornball.
24:52 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Dad jokes coming out of this like 30-year-old musician.
24:56 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_05]: We often see middle children as like media between the kids.
25:00 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about that with Oasis.
25:02 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
25:03 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_05]: And so it seems like it's mapping to time as well.
25:09 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle stops SD from just like tackling a lot of to try to get her to stop talking.
25:14 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, they were really fun.
25:15 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, also SD, what makes her the best, my favorite.
25:19 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: music manager alert.
25:20 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_01]: She has a UCLA degree in ethnomusicology and music college.
25:25 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the weird thing because I was probably there when she was there because I have a master's degree dated a little before that, but I started a PhD before I jumped for where I ended up getting my doctorate.
25:35 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Mark.
25:36 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And no, but like.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
25:38 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I was her TA for theory, but you see a lay back then had the weirdest ethnomusicology, which is like cultural study of music would be the major they would assign you.
25:49 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_01]: This is how bonkers they were structured back then and I think it's changed.
25:53 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You were like a pop guitar major, they'd be like ethnomusicology.
25:57 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_01]: She probably was a bass major or a voice major.
25:59 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Like a performance major.
26:01 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably, she probably wasn't a scholar.
26:03 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not saying she could have been, but most of the ethnomusicology majors I knew were like jazz piano, and there we go.
26:10 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's not classical music.
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's ethnomusicology.
26:12 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You could be doing freakin' EDM and they'd be like your ethnomusicology.
26:15 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_05]: It is though, ethnomusicology.
26:17 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_05]: But if that, it is.
26:19 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But to say that musicology means white European music, that is classical, and every other type of music that's ever been created is ethnic musicology is very Eurocentric.
26:29 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, of course it's your song.
26:30 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's not your era.
26:32 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not UCLA's fault, but they were totally back in the early 2000s following right now.
26:37 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if they changed.
26:38 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_05]: I think they have changed.
26:39 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I think they would probably have to.
26:41 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, they're set.
26:44 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about their set route pick because this relates to this like nostalgia experience which they're not.
26:49 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not an nostalgia band because they've only been around for a little over a decade.
26:53 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_01]: They played.
26:55 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I tease this in our mailbag episode.
26:57 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I listened to this album.
26:58 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I heard their new album like once before this came out.
27:01 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I looked on set list FM.
27:03 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Do I need to hear this album a bunch more because I don't want to I would if they play the whole freaking second out or it will be doing your homework I needed and and I looked they're playing a lot of that new and so they played one song from their first album, which is the one with some of my favorite songs by then
27:19 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: two songs from the second they played like I want you back and one of the one and then a handful from their third eleven songs from the new record yeah i'm glad i didn't go i guess because i wouldn't have known it and look they're good songs i've listened to that record since then uh a bunch i like them that was a lot i think that's a lot to do and i remember making fun of bands when i was like
27:41 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: a teenager or whatever going to punk show and they'd be like another song from a new album then we were like no the first album and like they really hit they were really wanted us to go go listen to that first album it worked but I wonder that decision making between the three of them or their promoters or whatever like is it interesting to be on a fly on the wall of that conversation to not go
28:05 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we got a couple of songs that people really know us for, we should probably do something.
28:10 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they did a fair amount from that third record, which was the Grammy-nom record.
28:14 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But 11 from a new song out of 14 or whatever on the new record, that's a lot.
28:19 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_07]: It's a lot.
28:20 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's their prerogative.
28:21 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Now they wouldn't an nostalgia group couldn't do that, right?
28:24 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they need to do the hits.
28:27 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_05]: No one wants, it's like a GB ban plan when they say, now we're going to play one of our originals.
28:32 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like no thanks.
28:33 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
28:35 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_05]: I learned so much about it.
28:37 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:37 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I say that.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do one of our originals.
28:38 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:38 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Not a thing at a wedding.
28:40 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to talk about melodic phrasing and rhythm and melody and stuff.
28:45 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_05]: What are you want to grab on to before I'm interested in like the phoma aspect of what I started thinking about it with this concert.
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I did have a lot of fear of missing out.
28:56 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so not the song not high, but like the experience of me going to the concert with you.
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I wonder if the experience of you going without me.
29:03 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Fullmo.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm fullmo.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_05]: You want me to get into it?
29:06 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do it now.
29:07 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to be weird if we come back to that.
29:09 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you know?
29:11 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Like the how do you think of like the fear of missing out?
29:13 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Is that something you experience a lot or?
29:16 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Just brain dump to me like what you know about that.
29:19 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I am a perpetrator.
29:21 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a late adopter.
29:22 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
29:23 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's fashion or even some music with technology like I'll got a smartphone way after everybody else.
29:30 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I don't really have fear of missing out except for the social aspects of it.
29:36 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:36 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_01]: As a kid, I couldn't stand being in a group of people and two of my friends whispering to each other.
29:43 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: and wondering, it's social links that are they talking about?
29:45 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are they planning on the thing that I don't get to be a part of?
29:48 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There was the fear of missing out because of what it reflected of my social standing and my own psychology, not the fear of missing out about the experience.
29:57 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I don't even want to do the thing they're talking about.
30:00 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to be honest.
30:01 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.
30:02 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like that's slightly adjacent.
30:04 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a big group out group.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_05]: They're like, you don't want to be left out.
30:08 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I have that more than I do, actually, terrible risk.
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Missing this thing.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't really.
30:13 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: No, obviously, you never regret going to the concert.
30:15 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
30:16 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_05]: No, and I think that when we talk about fear of missing out, it does relate more to the lack of social inclusion more than the activity.
30:24 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't want to go bowling.
30:27 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_05]: But if all my friends are going bowling, I want to go because I don't want to be the one that's not there.
30:31 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to miss the inside jokes that are going to get it.
30:33 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't want to miss that.
30:34 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_05]: So we talk about this like a motivational and emotional state of missing out, but it's based on a psychological theory called self-determination theory and self-determination theory says STT STT that's like college post-grunge band
30:51 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a T.P.
30:53 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
30:54 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Tricky, tricky.
30:55 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Mark.
30:56 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_05]: That SDT relates this idea that humans have three basic psychological needs.
31:02 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we give a list.
31:03 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_05]: We get a list.
31:04 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Guess what the three basic psychological needs of humans are.
31:08 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is not Maslow.
31:09 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_05]: This is not my asloving as higher or maybe we'll talk about one of these days.
31:12 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like one of one stuff doesn't really fit with songs.
31:15 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, basic psychological need.
31:17 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the good old people need to be psychologically healthy.
31:21 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
31:22 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
31:22 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like self not self confidence, but like sort of a sense of self like stable sense of self.
31:31 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And
31:32 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to just say, like, safety on some level.
31:35 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Sign up.
31:36 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I know this.
31:37 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I got love.
31:38 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
31:39 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you're like circling around the what?
31:41 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_05]: The drain how SDT or self-determination theory consolidates like the three basic psychological needs of autonomy that you get to decide what you want to do when you want to do it.
31:52 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_05]: competence that you have the ability to do that thing, not just that you want to do it, but you're able to do it and relatedness, which is that like, interconnected desire to feel included.
32:03 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_05]: So we talk about FOMO, it's the heck.
32:05 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Hang on.
32:06 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
32:07 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Check for understanding.
32:08 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
32:09 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Autonomy.
32:10 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
32:10 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Competence.
32:11 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Connectedness.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Connect.
32:14 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Relatedness.
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Relatedness.
32:15 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I was going for the three seas.
32:17 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:18 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's nice, but it's wrong.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the same thing to see.
32:21 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Please clear water revive.
32:22 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, a ton of me comfort you.
32:24 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a sorry.
32:25 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
32:25 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_05]: I was a relatedness, but you're understanding it.
32:29 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_05]: You're just not using the similar vocabulary, which is something very common in psychology, that you understand it, but you just have an apply this sort of like self-determination.
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
32:39 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: like skill or like expertise and community is another way that you have the choice to go or to not go.
32:46 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_05]: You have autonomy.
32:47 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
32:47 --> 32:50 [SPEAKER_05]: You have competence, like you are able to go.
32:50 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:51 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_05]: And relatedness that your social group is going.
32:55 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
32:56 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_05]: So those three things together will help you make a decision to go and do the thing.
33:00 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_05]: If you hold those three opportunities.
33:03 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_05]: You have the choice to go.
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_05]: You're not told you have to.
33:05 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_05]: You get to pick.
33:06 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_05]: you have a way to get there.
33:08 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_05]: You have a ticket.
33:09 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_05]: You have the money to buy the ticket.
33:10 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_05]: There's no hindrance there.
33:12 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_05]: And like your friends are going to.
33:13 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_05]: So, and all of those things are happening, and you still say no, you get this feeling of foam on, because you could have.
33:20 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_05]: There's not there was nothing stopping you.
33:23 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And you still decided to stay home.
33:25 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_01]: How does it change if you get two out of three?
33:27 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's say like, yeah, you had the ability to go.
33:30 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what was missing,
33:31 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Which things were missing in yours or were none of them missing?
33:34 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have FOMO.
33:35 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_05]: That's just it none of them were missing and I had FOMO.
33:38 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like you had a work conflict.
33:39 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, well, I'm not going to feel bad about that.
33:41 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I, it's not like I couldn't afford the ticket.
33:43 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like I didn't have my car wasn't starting.
33:45 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like you were alone at the show.
33:47 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_05]: It was like I couldn't have a babysitter or something.
33:49 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Like there was nothing getting in the way.
33:51 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:51 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Of me going and I still said, no, I'm not going to go.
33:54 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was this other thing that that was a priority, right?
33:57 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, your own psychological exhaustion or whatever.
34:00 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, like my need for rest and my just innate introversion, I think.
34:05 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't, especially in our culture, with rewards, go, go, go, go.
34:09 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_05]: that doesn't count as preventing that's not enough to prevent foam all it's not enough to prevent foam all you'll still feel that that you missed something right because of this like social comparison piece and that's what you were talking about before it's like you don't want to be the one left out like if everyone's going and you didn't go how are people going to think about you I love this band I took into my I know I'm going to talk about it on the podcast I know Mark's going to go I know he's going to want to talk about it
34:37 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_05]: It would be better if I was there, so then we could have like a peer conversation and not just telling me about the concert I could experience it with him right that social comparison piece.
34:46 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_05]: So there's also a lot of foam more around like anticipatory anxiety around an event.
34:53 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Like for me, oftentimes I'll be able to go.
34:55 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll have confidence.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll have autonomy.
34:58 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll make the choice to go.
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll have a way to get there.
35:01 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_05]: I have friends that are going to be there and I don't go because I am anxious.
35:06 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just an anxious person and I know that it's a new venue.
35:09 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know where to park.
35:11 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how to get in the gate.
35:12 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know where my seats are.
35:14 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how late I'm going to be out at what is something happens at the constant that goes wrong.
35:18 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_05]: all of these things prevent me from going, even though I have the means and confidence to get there, my anxiety will hold me back, and that usually causes me foam O2.
35:27 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not one of those three things preventing you.
35:31 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_05]: It's my own cell.
35:32 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: A separate thing prevents you.
35:35 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You're vulnerable to foam.
35:36 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think of a scenario.
35:39 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: If it was just stupidly expensive, I don't have foam O for not taking my daughter to see the Taylor Swift
35:45 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, and she probably doesn't either because it was just not an option at all, right.
35:49 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's just it.
35:50 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't an option at all, but if you had to take it and you were just like, it was a school night or whatever and the entire time.
35:57 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty, she'd be, well, that would be a problem.
36:00 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true.
36:02 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
36:04 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_05]: So then I think about this, you know, anxiety piece with Falmo, that we get into what some feminist psychologists call, it's kind of applied differently here, but like the tyranny of the should go, right?
36:21 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I have an obligation to go.
36:22 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what I felt with him is like, oh, I should go.
36:24 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I have agency, I have money, I have means, I have friends there.
36:28 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And like I should go, because it's kind of a work.
36:33 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_05]: If this is work, right?
36:34 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Dan, I wish I was organized enough to like write that shit off, right?
36:39 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The ticket.
36:39 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's cool.
36:40 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a little episode about it.
36:42 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
36:43 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_05]: So that's another thing that gets in the way of this photo pieces that like your own psychological blockage to actually get out the door and we see that a lot with like generalized anxiety disorder, a gorephobia, social anxiety, things like that.
36:55 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_05]: But usually, you know, I know for my experience with my anxiety, that's not so much to overcome.
37:00 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Once I'm there, it's always fine.
37:02 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I always have a great time.
37:03 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_05]: It's just like getting there can be a roadblock for me.
37:06 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_05]: But lately, I've been trying to flip and teach my kid, because she has quite a bit of foam all I think everyone does.
37:13 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_05]: But about Joe Moe, and the idea would, J-O-M-E-L-O-M-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-
37:20 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Like they don't like cancel plans stay home get cozy watch stranger things for the millionth time like be chill at home and don't think oh I should be there right I think the guy I get to stay home and rest right I get to you to give myself a night off we had so much fun events and let me give myself the gift of not being trash for the next week because I'm old and takes me a while let me find joy in introversion
37:48 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fascinating.
37:49 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:49 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's all we talked about this a couple months ago in one of our episodes like taking the personal day from school.
37:55 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just not go to school.
37:57 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
37:58 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
37:58 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
37:58 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:58 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just don't go to school.
37:59 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, great, except we also would now have an epidemic of people taking brain breaks and nobody is
38:05 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_05]: But this is more like, the school, the thing about school that you don't have foam on what school, like you don't have autonomy at school.
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you have to be there legally, right?
38:16 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_05]: So that's the thing, like, you can take a brain break if you want, but if you're absent 10 days, you've got to go to school.
38:21 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to go to school, right?
38:23 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_05]: There's not like free will or choice, same with work.
38:26 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, social pressure with my oldest, it's transitional with my my youngest, but my oldest social pressure is far stronger than any other pressures in life right now, right?
38:36 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And literally it's under 20 and knock knock knock on the door and they're like, hey, complete, we're playing football.
38:44 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to play tackle football on the hard-ass turf and my son's like,
38:48 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to go.
38:49 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm going like, and he's like, no, and they're like, come on, and he's like, all right, because they need him.
38:54 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They need a even number of kids or whatever.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just like, you can say, no, it's literally freezing.
38:59 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And he comes back.
38:59 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I shouldn't have gone.
39:00 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm too cold.
39:01 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, don't.
39:02 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:02 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the joy of this thing up, but he doesn't want to be the one who ruins it for everybody.
39:06 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, and so I'm looking, I'm thinking about the main character.
39:10 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: do five of the six of those kids not want to play football right now and one of them does and they all feel like well but that's also that's what community is.
39:18 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what community is.
39:18 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what community is.
39:19 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to learn to buy balance that like, and none of us want to do it, but we do this.
39:23 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_05]: This is the thing we do for this.
39:25 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_05]: For this.
39:25 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Joe, Falmo is like you're not putting your psychological needs first.
39:31 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_05]: You're doing it because you you feel like you are going to miss something if you don't and my kid had this experience.
39:40 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_05]: a pretty big concert on Sunday night of this past weekend and it was with like 10 girls and their moms and we were hanging up before hanging out.
39:49 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_05]: I was like a whole a social marathon.
39:51 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Whole thing.
39:52 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_07]: Whole thing.
39:53 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_05]: and then day before we were like chilling at home and her friend invited her to go out to see a play or move here something with a bunch of girls.
40:01 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And she's like, well, I don't want to miss out.
40:03 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_05]: It was nice of them to invite me, but I know if I go today, I'm not going to have enough energy to do what I have to do at the press.
40:10 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Come on, Russell.
40:11 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
40:12 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
40:12 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And
40:12 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_05]: She's like wrestled with it.
40:13 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_05]: She's like, and I said to her, it was, it took her a while to get there and I let her like process it out, but I said like, when you like close your eyes and you think what you want this afternoon to look like, what do you see?
40:25 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_05]: And she's like, I want to be home and relax.
40:29 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_05]: So I was like, then you can do that.
40:30 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the joke.
40:32 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_05]: And like your friends are going to be your friends, whether or not you go or not.
40:36 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_05]: And if they're not your friends, if you don't go, then maybe that's not a good friendship, right?
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_05]: That's hard to teach.
40:41 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So you didn't go to the time show.
40:43 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have Falmo or Jommo?
40:44 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_05]: I have Falmo.
40:45 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_01]: OK. Yeah.
40:46 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_05]: I do.
40:47 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the relatedness of me is going to be a contests too much.
40:50 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_05]: It's too much.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like a really great time.
40:52 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_05]: And now you're playing it live.
40:53 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_05]: And you're talking about the banter and like, except you didn't know that album.
40:57 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, OK, and that's the thing.
40:58 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I didn't know that album.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's that competence piece.
41:02 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_05]: that gets in the middle of the phone while it's like, okay, that's the reason.
41:05 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_05]: That's why I'm like, okay, I'm okay with it.
41:07 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Because I am not competent in that music that they were playing.
41:10 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_05]: If you went and they played all the songs I love and I saw the set list and every song was like, oh, you'd be bummed, yeah.
41:17 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_05]: I would be super bummed.
41:17 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_05]: I'd have even more foam all, but the fact that I'm lacking competence around what they performed makes it easier for me to follow.
41:27 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
41:27 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, sorry to contributed
41:31 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean that's minor.
41:33 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I've gone through more major psychological distresses because of you.
41:38 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_03]: We have maybe they haven't seen the text messages.
41:41 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
41:44 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean you're three minutes ago?
41:46 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually you're like 15 minutes early.
41:47 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always early.
41:48 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_01]: One time you were here before I was here.
41:50 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I was still dropped.
41:51 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_05]: The thing with our text messages is what we do is we both I think used the talk to tell you.
41:56 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow.
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_05]: I used that.
41:57 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And so it's imagine this conversation, but just like in text.
42:02 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Stream of consciousness.
42:03 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_05]: It is and I don't hate it.
42:05 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we talk music here?
42:06 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
42:24 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's talk about this band in this song.
42:28 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So in previous episodes, like Kylie Minogue Oasis, I've talked about the shape of a melody and how the notes are chosen.
42:34 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And in others, I've done tension and chords and dissonance and chords, you know, the true episode back to the beginning of season one.
42:42 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Here, I'm kind of gonna put it together.
42:44 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the song, lyrically, I think it's kind of like a, I made a mistake and now I want you back, which is honestly, I think, several of their songs.
42:52 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, don't they have a song called I want you back?
42:54 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they definitely do.
42:56 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this, the construction, music, construction, and I want to talk about it's kind of the interaction of tension in the chords versus a lack of tension in the chords with the melody.
43:06 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that kind of relates to the theme of the sort of regret, I mean, this song, FOMO you say, but like if I could change your mind is really about like, it seems like I made a decision to end this, or I did something that ended this.
43:20 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm wondering if I could get you to
43:23 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_01]: to change your mind and take me back.
43:25 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And so is that FOMO?
43:26 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
43:27 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm talking about the tension carried within their phrasing.
43:30 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_01]: OK.
43:31 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's just remind ourselves how this song sounds.
43:33 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll go kind of piece by piece.
43:35 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the chorus of this tune if I could change your mind.
43:58 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a stand out to you from them or not really not really all this one just does it for me So okay, I can see why it's obvious.
44:06 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm predictable Okay, so melodies have notes, right?
44:10 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's chords playing behind the notes and the melody sometimes plays or sings in this case the notes that are in that chord like if it's a C chord C e G
44:20 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're singing a C and E or a G, you are in that chord.
44:25 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're on a different note, like a D, we call that a non-harmonic tone.
44:29 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
44:29 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that is tense.
44:30 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And oftentimes those notes resolve.
44:33 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you did a C, you would go to a D, and then keep going to an E to be back on the chord, or you would go back to the C, right?
44:40 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's just most melodies are somewhere between a third and two thirds of the notes aren't even in the harmonies.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what gives them
44:47 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_01]: tension.
44:48 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to talk about elements of that in this song that are sticky that really linger and lean on the cord, right?
44:54 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Don't resolve quick enough for all resolve quick enough.
44:57 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly right.
44:58 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So if like I'm supposed to go, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, that one goes by so fast.
45:05 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, and holding it out really milking it, right?
45:10 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So the point that it almost changes the stability of the cord.
45:13 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: and what I want to show is how in this case it really moves the melody forward and like when we talked about the shaggy tune like the pacing of the unfolding of the song is affected by this element.
45:24 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_05]: It's so funny ever since we recorded that episode.
45:26 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like all I hear now when I because I like to count meter when I'm driving.
45:32 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:32 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_05]: And I you're hearing the speeding up in the swelling down and like the swing swing eighths and stuff like that like everywhere.
45:38 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah it's everywhere.
45:40 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_05]: So, thank you for teaching me with you where we live.
45:43 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_05]: But even there.
45:44 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
45:47 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Long note, and I want to be with you.
45:49 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
45:51 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The pacing.
45:51 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I want to comment convention.
45:53 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking more about the pacing as it relates to the tension of the melody less on the rhythm here.
45:58 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear the verse of this song to kind of deconstruct a bit of what I'm talking about.
46:18 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Got to love S.D.'
46:20 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: 's base.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:22 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's not a lot of non harmonic tones in this.
46:26 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the notes in the melody fit the chords, which we're sort of in either F major or D minor, which are we call those relative keys.
46:33 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They're similar.
46:34 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's ambiguous actually, which is, you know, charming in this particular case.
46:37 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a D minor B flat C B flat.
46:40 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are our four chords in that order, right?
46:42 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_01]: If we simplify the melody, getting rid of some of the quick notes and just focus on the most important notes, I'll play those on the piano.
46:51 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, this is what I think are kind of the anchors, the outline of that melody.
47:11 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
47:12 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
47:14 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You buy it?
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I buy it.
47:16 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So, note though, that second chord, the note clashes, listen again, all those four, there's four chords and four sort of highlight notes in the melody, and they're all in the chord except if that second one was clashes a bit.
47:36 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_09]: That one, that's crunchy.
47:39 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_01]: All the other ones fit, but that second one creates something that we talked about actually in our episode on Define Gravity.
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: This is called an ad-9 chord.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
47:49 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So B-flat chord with a C on it.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So we call that then the added 9th.
47:52 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And I realize that I love songs that have this added 9th.
47:56 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it was every musical song based on a play, I'll play some of the new ones in this one.
48:01 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And this one, yeah, which doesn't really sound like musical theater.
48:04 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically the second note of each four is the one with the dissonance.
48:07 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Not at the end.
48:09 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The ending of the phrase, it's just a consonant part of that B-flat chord.
48:13 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's in the middle that pulls us forward without ending on tension.
48:17 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_01]: The verse doesn't end on tension.
48:18 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It just kind of keeps you moving.
48:20 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hear the second half of the verse section.
48:36 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So, similar, slight melody change, but it's the same thing.
48:40 --> 48:42 [SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna hear it with the piano emphasizing the main note.
48:43 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is within the chords except for the second one, which doesn't give us that C, it's a G. This is a B-flat ad-6 chord.
48:51 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, kind of a crunchy, jazzy harmony.
48:53 --> 49:04 [SPEAKER_01]: The second chord only has this crunchiness.
49:11 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a bit different than when we did the Spanned Out by LA song.
49:14 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about how the dissonant note was like on the high money note.
49:18 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:18 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_01]: True.
49:19 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
49:19 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He's doing that emotional note in a million years ago.
49:22 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:23 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like a year and a half ago.
49:24 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:24 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And this isn't climactic.
49:27 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This is controlling the pacing of our phrase.
49:29 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So if I play the chords with the melody notes on top, just notice how the second chord, the second in each set of four,
49:36 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_01]: is where the dissonance is.
49:38 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not at the end of the phrase, but it pulls us along.
49:40 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
49:41 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: This is sort of speeding through it.
49:42 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That one.
49:49 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And that starts again.
49:50 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That one.
49:59 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, what do you think you hear anyone I'm talking about?
50:00 --> 50:06 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm hearing what you're talking about, but also I'm hearing musical theater in that when you just play the chords.
50:07 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe because you primed me for it, but it sounds like rent for sure.
50:10 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Boom.
50:11 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Boom.
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_05]: That's that.
50:13 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I pump it.
50:13 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So I pipe in the, I think I use that as one of the examples that we did, the wicked.
50:17 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:17 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:18 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Add nine chords at the start of seasons of love.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
50:21 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You totally right.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll pipe it in later.
50:22 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
50:23 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_03]: The same thing.
50:35 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Not exactly, but Of course.
50:38 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally a B-flat.
50:39 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm taking you.
50:40 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
50:40 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
50:42 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So good job.
50:43 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm going to get an A this time.
50:45 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
50:47 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You're definitely going to get an A. Yeah, you know what though.
50:49 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't plagiarize the last second last semester I had a student at the end of this the last assignment cheat at the very end of this semester It's being like investigated by the dean of students like don't know you were doing fine I know you're too stressed through the last assignment just don't do the last assignment then get his ear What's up, but that's your fault.
51:07 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, but that's just drop it
51:09 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to talk about it.
51:11 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a minute.
51:11 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_05]: I have a couple of students that didn't do the last assignments worth 20 points, and you just didn't just submit the paper, like he could have submitted anything, just submit anything.
51:20 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_05]: And what are you doing?
51:22 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
51:23 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm trying to argue that it controls the pacing by the middle kind of pulling us along the verse.
51:29 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_05]: It does.
51:29 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if I told you the next section was a pre-chorus.
51:32 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
51:33 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: What have you learned in this podcast about pre-chorus is to expect what that might do?
51:37 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_05]: You know what?
51:37 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't.
51:38 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we probably have talked about like the structure of songs, but I think we need to do more about like songwriting, like the form of song.
51:45 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_01]: For a part because of the small clips I play.
51:48 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't understand.
51:49 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Because what I need to do for form when I do it in my class, we listen to the whole damn song.
51:53 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to have to chart that pacing.
51:56 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll find a way.
51:56 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I think that, like, so I don't really know it.
51:59 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_05]: They always talk with like, you bridge and pre-chorus and chorus.
52:01 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like going to the chorus, what do you do before the chorus?
52:04 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_05]: You like kind of warm up to it a little bit.
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, build up energy.
52:07 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Lead, yeah, build up energy, build tension.
52:09 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to.
52:10 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_01]: For Shadow a little bit.
52:11 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody wants to learn about pre-chorei?
52:13 --> 52:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't be right.
52:14 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to our episode from early season one about everybody talks by Neon trees because that was, they have a dissonant cord.
52:21 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_01]: They have a sinker paid a rhythm.
52:23 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_01]: They're throwing the kitchen sink at the tent.
52:25 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_05]: I think that might be one of the only times we talked about form explicitly like that.
52:30 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And even then we were kind of talking about cords and elderly rhythm.
52:33 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the pre-chorus of this song.
52:35 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, maybe it's building up tension at the end, not in the middle of the phrase.
52:49 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_09]: Cause every time I think Flake about it Memories day be back to all of a wildest times
52:59 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it kind of puts us in a holding power in a little bit, like, and kind of getting that momentum ready for the chorus.
53:06 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So what we have, I'll do my little piano highlight thing.
53:08 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
53:09 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Every single chord has a melody note, a main melody note, that is consonant and totally in the chord, except for the last.
53:17 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get this D minor chord with a G, which is the fourth, the D minor add four, that's a weird chord.
53:22 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We get the last note when she says the,
53:25 --> 53:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Memories take me back to, she's holding this note that is clashing against the cord.
53:45 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But boom, doesn't fit.
53:48 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_05]: No, and we're waiting for the course for the resolution.
53:51 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_05]: So it like projects us towards the course, so we can resolve that court.
53:55 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the musical theater version, the piano version.
53:57 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hear that dissonant ad for a court at the end.
54:15 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_01]: very pretty crunchy at the end there that looks like you know three quarters away through the first act and really yeah well the three quarters away that's that's usually the bridge the bridge and a pops on the two third mark I'm talking about through the musical like you know with the characters
54:32 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_05]: set out some intention they're facing adversity.
54:34 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_05]: What's going to happen next?
54:36 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
54:37 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_01]: There's all the cord in a cord before the and here's our chorus we've heard it before, but this time all play the main melody notes so we can follow the dissonance and try to hear when are the chords disson it in the phrase.
55:03 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's in the middle.
55:04 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the chorus gives us both.
55:07 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_01]: OK.
55:07 --> 55:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have four chords.
55:09 --> 55:09 [SPEAKER_01]: The chords here go.
55:10 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just alternating between C and B flat.
55:12 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And B flat, in this case, we could use a term that sometimes people use in music theory and analysis, a neighbor chord, where the kind of driving function of the section is the C. And the B flat is like a pivot backwards, neighboring back and forth.
55:26 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about that maybe in a podcast though.
55:28 --> 55:31 [SPEAKER_05]: That's like a really, it makes it really easy for me to understand.
55:31 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_05]: I like to turn it for you.
55:32 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I like neighbor chords.
55:34 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so,
55:35 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's those neighbor cords that have the dissonance and it's the B-flat again, the seasons of love cord.
55:40 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Always the B-flat.
55:41 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The second and fourth.
55:43 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get the ninth and then we get the major seventh on the fourth.
55:46 --> 55:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get it in the middle of the phrase to pull us forward, but also at the end of the phrase like the pre-chorus.
55:51 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have a constant pull pull pull pull.
55:54 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_05]: You know what they say about B-flat?
55:56 --> 55:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It's also a sharp.
55:59 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely right, but if you wrote it like that in this key, you'd be like, well, you'd be bonkers.
56:04 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to have a B in an A, leave the A alone.
56:07 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:07 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a neighbor chord then.
56:08 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it would just be the same chord because notes and chords.
56:11 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So just be confusingly written.
56:12 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear the pianos playing to emphasize the second and fourth chord having the clash.
56:22 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
56:22 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That one.
56:24 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This one.
56:26 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And that one's on the high note.
56:27 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So that almost is a little bit like Span Dalbele, Marvin Gaye, money note going on.
56:34 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So the bridge is the only other section.
56:36 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the two thirds of the way point of max tension, but guess what?
56:40 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no chords really.
56:49 --> 56:50 [SPEAKER_05]: So what are you even saying then?
56:51 --> 56:51 [SPEAKER_05]: There's no courts.
56:52 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The sort of the court would just be the basing guitar playing minor.
56:55 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no court progression, but we get visions of our love.
56:58 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Neighbour tone is what that's calling.
57:00 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, that's good.
57:01 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good as the seven neighboring between the C and the D. So it's dissonant, but we don't have a harmonic progression.
57:07 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't like talk about which court's being more tense because they're all equal.
57:11 --> 57:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is just an example of over the course of the song, we see the push and pull of a melody and it's accompanying harmony, varying based on the needs of the section, right?
57:20 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So like the verse we saw in the middle, we're not leading towards anything but we're keeping us moving through the verse.
57:26 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The pre-chorus, it was at the end pulling us to the chorus, and then the chorus gave us both, because the chorus is the most motoric part, right?
57:35 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The part that's moving forward, the catchy part, the part where one chord sort of leads to the next chord.
57:41 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_01]: We have, like I said, the neighbor chord, which whenever you hear a neighbor chord and implies you're going to go back to that first chord, so we have the sense of constant instability.
57:49 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_05]: What's the word used motorek?
57:51 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Motorek.
57:51 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I've never heard that word.
57:52 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like with a motor, right?
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Motorek, right?
57:55 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Motorek rhythm, right?
57:56 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be like something.
57:58 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I've just heard it.
57:58 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I've just heard it.
57:59 --> 58:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Like conjugated that word.
58:00 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, correct.
58:01 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:01 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a conjugation.
58:02 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I don't know.
58:04 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give you some more examples of songs that sort of use harmony and melody and the connection of those two things to pace the song formally.
58:14 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, how can I ever think of which artists I should play?
58:19 --> 58:20 [SPEAKER_01]: What would high and look to?
58:20 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Taylor Swift or I hope it's rent if I'm being honest.
58:24 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_05]: So I can think it was rent now.
58:25 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go back to Fleetwood Mac.
58:26 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh nice.
58:27 --> 58:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's everywhere again.
58:29 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Very good.
58:29 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's everywhere again.
58:54 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody You're not meant to say I am In the heart and you know what I am the musician Yeah, you are and I don't okay.
59:03 --> 59:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm asking the first and third chord of everywhere in the verse section Yes, so in the song that we're about to hear man's planning aside We have basically alternation of a few different chords But it's on the first and third that we get the dissonance and I don't need to get into what notes those are which chords
59:20 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But when we get to the chorus, we have more of the Spandaubele high note that clashes.
59:24 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But basically, just notice that you're first in your third, our tense, your second, and your fourth chord in the progression or not.
59:32 --> 59:44 [SPEAKER_06]: So there, not there.
59:45 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_01]: This one, yes, not that one, and now all this sort of.
59:49 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you just really in the first, but the first time we hear that phrase, it doesn't resolve in the final core that brings us to probably the chorus.
59:59 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it just repeats back to the beginning and you're like, just get to the high note already.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_05]: You just get there.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I want to go.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You want it.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You want it.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's our Cheryl Crow example.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So, up the sun, this timer, you're gonna have some similar chords as another four chord here.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_01]: The second and fourth chord in the phrase are where the dissonance is.
01:00:18 --> 01:00:36 [SPEAKER_09]: So this is more like the chorus in theheim tune.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, compare that to what happens in the chorus to the third chord.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right here.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Don't tell everyone to
01:00:57 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that gonna tell everyone that one is like a fourth against the sixth quote.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's some weird note that I feel like that's the more like the verse in the high.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so I'm polling us polling us polling us.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Mark, I will say, I don't feel mansplained to it all, but I do feel too bad because I feel.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_05]: You're trying.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_05]: I do feel a little bit tricked because at the beginning of this episode, you said, you know, who do you feel like time is derivative of?
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, these artists, and then you played this examples.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was equating it more because of the tone and the vibe and the love of the outfit and all that.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_05]: But now you've taught me something, which I hate.
01:01:40 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_05]: And that hit it's all right, it's you'll forget it's not derivative because of just their aesthetic their derivative because like musically they're using similar conventions in their songwriting and that's pretty smart, but that's style, you know, they're they're style of songwriting is influenced by these songwriters, you know, I think yeah, I'm talking about like ball bottom style.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and like look.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You think their aesthetic is influenced a lot?
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_05]: I think the, yeah, the Cheryl Crowe and, yeah.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Cool, they're aesthetic.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's awesome.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure the aesthetic, I'm in.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think they know their place in music history to a certain extent.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They know what they represent a lineage of pop rock artists from the last 50 years or whatever.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_05]: And they have agency to honor that lineage because they're allowed to borrow influence from other artists.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I know we're going to do a sidetrack talking about family bands, but let me just pretend we were the home sisters and 10 years younger, whatever five years, whatever it is.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Thinking of the stage vibe, we were talking about like a lot of being the chatty one.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: If you had a family band, I know you have one sister and I have one brother older.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:54 [SPEAKER_01]: If you had a family band, we have established that both of our siblings are scientists.
01:02:55 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So what would be the vibe if you had a family band on stage with you
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: even just your sister.
01:03:00 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe your your mom could be in there or whatever, but what do you think?
01:03:05 --> 01:03:09 [SPEAKER_05]: I would definitely be Chadier for sure.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I'd be more like more like the front man and my sister would be like back at the house like base percussion.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_05]: She wouldn't want the spotlight that much.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So she wouldn't even be the lead vocalist on drums like that.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:27 [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, I don't think she would want to like, and she'd honestly be the business man.
01:03:27 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_05]: She'd be like the financial mastermind for sure.
01:03:30 --> 01:03:32 [SPEAKER_05]: She'd be the handling that she'd work and stuff.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:36 [SPEAKER_05]: She'd book the gigs and I'd be like the on stage personality.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_05]: I'd run personnel and just like us, you know, kind of like, I know what I bring to the table.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's not a business acumen.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Sam.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually same.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So my brother would be the same.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like my brother literally did learn the pace like he played to type of being the more like reserved guy, but he also wouldn't be the guy getting the gig.
01:03:57 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think we just wouldn't get gigs because I'm pretty bad at the business side of things.
01:04:00 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I find that so hard to believe.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'd be the chatty and the singer and the guitar player.
01:04:05 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd be the bass or whatever.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'd also probably be the one who'd have to, like, guess I'll develop our electronic press kit now.
01:04:11 --> 01:04:21 [SPEAKER_05]: But, no, my sister would be the one, like, okay, does not forget to drink water in your bills and, you know, got to have a shot of whiskey before you get on set.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And you'll won't be hydrated enough.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, my ass is ready for it.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
01:04:32 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I also produce.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We're never music pot on social media, and you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
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01:04:54 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.