Have you ever had that friend who seemed to change their whole personality each time they had a new relationship? No? Then you’re probably that friend! This week, we vibe with No Doubt’s 1995 radio smash “Don’t Speak.” Nichole argues that No Doubt vocalist Gwen Stefani’s changing styles is a great example of the so-called chameleon effect, while Mark thinks this song has a great example of a cool type of key change. It’s not petty if you use a big word to describe it!
Other music heard in this episode: No Doubt - “Rock Steady”, No Doubt - “Just a Girl”, No Doubt - “Total Hate”, Matthew Wilder - “Break My Stride”, No Doubt - “Bathwater”, No Doubt - “Trapped in a Box”, No Doubt - “It’s My Life”, J.S. Bach - “Ach Gott, erhör mein Seufzen und Wehklagen,” BWV 254, No Doubt - “Excuse Me Mr.”, No Doubt - “Happy Now?”, No Doubt - “New”, Queen - “We Are the Champions”, Avril Lavigne - “Sk8er Boi”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'd love to hear her do an album of like jazz standards.
00:04 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
00:05 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That is very jazzy like rock bass there.
00:07 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
00:08 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I would like more on that.
00:09 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
00:10 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Make that happen.
00:11 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
00:11 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that you need a new boyfriend.
00:12 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to need like a new boy or whatever.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That's hot.
00:16 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_00]: She'll do.
00:17 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep it in the privacy of your own.
00:34 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:34 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Mark.
00:35 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_08]: And this is never mind the music.
00:37 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_08]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
00:40 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally on topic.
00:41 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
00:41 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: My friend Laura is super cool.
00:43 --> 00:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know Laura.
00:44 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a friend named Laura?
00:46 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_08]: I have a friend named Laura.
00:47 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Close, probably not the same person.
00:49 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But especially Laura was super cool.
00:53 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So five top reasons why Laura is cool.
00:56 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we'll get somewhere to worry.
00:58 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_08]: I believe it.
00:59 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: See, from Louisiana, which was cool at the time, because it shattered my kind of arrogant assumptions as a Sandy again at the time of like, what the, like, hip parts of the, like, cool person from Louisiana.
01:12 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's number one.
01:13 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:13 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two, I met her on the literal last day of high school.
01:16 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: While we were setting up for my raging into the machine cover pins.
01:20 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
01:21 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Final day of school.
01:23 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Porting on her performance as one does so she's a friend from like a very transitional phase of my life Right like after high school and then into college She at your high school.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_08]: She's from Louisiana.
01:33 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: She just moved to San Diego like junior year or something like that, right?
01:37 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: She worked at a cell phone number three.
01:39 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: She worked at a cell phone company and had like has still to this day, the best phone number.
01:45 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_00]: She was able to select, this is like late 90s cell phone technology.
01:49 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So apparently they would let you choose your number.
01:51 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to say it on Mike, but what, seven, seven.
01:56 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I had a page are growing up and my page number was four.
02:01 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
02:02 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_08]: That's awesome.
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty good.
02:04 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to leave it in but no, no, no one's going to page me.
02:09 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
02:09 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish.
02:10 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Number four.
02:12 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
02:12 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: She's in a counten.
02:13 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think somebody messed up my list.
02:15 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Number five.
02:16 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Number five, and here we go, in winter break, like 2002 or 2001, I have to figure out based on when this album came out.
02:24 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
02:24 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it right after 9-11 or like the year, I don't know, but uncertain times, right?
02:30 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We're in college.
02:32 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We're on our way to hang out with some friends or something by then my crappy Volvo 740 had kicked the bucket or whatever, so she's driving.
02:39 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We're sitting in the car, waiting for everybody else to get there, and she's like, hey,
02:45 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I was kind of like, okay, yeah, whatever.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I was at that point.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about, I've kind of dismissed notice.
02:51 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, no, really, and she played me this.
03:05 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_06]: I love this rock steady Rock steady, rock steady Rock steady
03:17 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_08]: And that was the album called Rock Steady.
03:20 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's from the album, Rock Steady.
03:22 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it might be the last song on the album, but then I heard the hook of this song.
03:27 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And remember, this is like tickling former boys to men being my favorite fan, dude who probably, at that point, had already started an Ocapella group.
03:37 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just something so cool about the hook of this song at the end of the album.
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard that before?
04:07 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't, but I do like it and you know what?
04:10 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_08]: It's very pretty and the lyrics and the fact that she was kind of a chameleon fits so well into the topic that I wanted to just say.
04:19 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm talking about pivot chord modulations.
04:22 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's one of those that I have no idea what you're talking about.
04:26 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But really the moment that struck me in that conversation and it's weird that I remember it all the years later,
04:32 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_00]: is she was so excited to be, and this is why she's so cool.
04:36 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, listen to that, that's her voice.
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a synthesizer.
04:44 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is like 2002 or whatever it is.
04:46 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, no, I've seen video of her doing it live.
04:49 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the fact that I had not, this is like, hey, baby, maybe from then, you know that one, that had come out, but Dalbum, I hadn't heard anything.
04:56 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_08]: Was it like the carrot you go girls?
04:58 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_08]: That vibe?
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what you're talking about.
05:01 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, that's fine.
05:02 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_08]: What do you want to do?
05:03 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_08]: She had like this moment that she was surrounded herself by like Japanese girls all the time.
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_08]: And like they like followed her around.
05:08 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_00]: This is right before she ended up so low.
05:11 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:12 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_08]: This is no doubt.
05:13 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: This is for sure no doubt.
05:14 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't heard all I had heard was hey, baby, which was not really my vibe.
05:19 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello good and underneath it all those things that hadn't come out yet.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And those songs are really cool.
05:23 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
05:23 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But and hello good might actually come up referentially next for us.
05:30 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But suffice it to say the fact that my friend Laura cool Laura was cool enough to us somehow like seeing the live Video of maybe they were on SNL or something right before I'd even heard the song was like testing it How much cool Lou than she was even then the future account even then the music major, but in any case Got me back into no doubt.
05:51 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay
05:51 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And I became a fan of no doubt again because I had fallen off of no doubt and honestly it's because of the song I want to talk about this week.
06:21 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_03]: There is a no tell
06:26 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_08]: So I loved that.
06:27 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_08]: You say you fell off of no doubt because of this song.
06:29 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_08]: So you weren't like on them that long.
06:32 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's funny.
06:33 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You meant that's actually a good point to share.
06:35 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So as a tween and San Diego, when that's 1995, right, tragic kingdom.
06:41 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I had not heard their self-titled debut.
06:45 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I had not heard the beacon street collection in their second album.
06:49 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I heard tragic kingdom.
06:50 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
06:51 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I heard off tragic kingdom, you know, I'm in within striking distance of the Orange County scene they were in, which, you know, they're kind of a part of that scopunk scene, even though that song not at all, is that fun fact, I actually taught for a few years at the community college that Gwen Stefani went to for a few years.
07:11 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Were you her teacher?
07:12 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
07:13 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you teach her about scummy sick?
07:14 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I was a tween, which she was going in there, no.
07:18 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That is fun fact.
07:21 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I won't say it, but like songs like just a girl came out.
07:27 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That song was awesome.
07:47 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_08]: The song sucks.
07:48 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't like it.
07:49 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
07:49 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_08]: I like that like last like bass guitar riff.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That.
07:53 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm in shout out to 13 year old me still liking that song despite the whoop.
07:58 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That Eric Stefani her brother, her older brother, the keyboard player.
08:02 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something about that synth that drives you bonkers kind of drives me back.
08:05 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_08]: You don't like that song?
08:06 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I just I've heard it too much.
08:09 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_08]: and interesting and I just like, I'm over it.
08:12 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I liked it when I was in high school and when I was in tween, I guess.
08:16 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So that sounds good, spider webs, excuse me, Mr. some of the album tracks, Sunday morning was my favorite track on that.
08:22 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_08]: The whole album was, it was a good album.
08:24 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a good album.
08:25 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, I was so sick of, don't speak.
08:28 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It was so,
08:28 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Overplayed, it had this kind of acoustic islandy pop vibe that I kind of wasn't into, and somebody who liked the new Slacanemic's album actually said all but this one sounds kind of islandy.
08:39 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
08:40 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And I heard it.
08:41 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
08:41 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a trigger.
08:43 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of, other people have told me they really liked this song, but this person did not.
08:48 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, they said islandy, pejoratively.
08:50 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, and I felt that way at the time about don't it was just to overplayed enough that I want to do a sidetrack with you on with me with you.
09:01 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
09:02 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, about our least favorite popular songs by an artist that we actually really like because don't speak would make my list and that won't be on my list.
09:10 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
09:11 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have I have no idea what you're going to do, but I have asked Nicole in advance to prepare a list.
09:16 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just a girl was like a runner up, but it's not on my list.
09:22 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just got so over that song.
09:25 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second album returned to not the second, the second popular album, the fourth album returned to Saturn, came on.
09:31 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's got some awesome songs on it.
09:34 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Like do you know that song, you know, his
09:38 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't let it go, oh, hey, I love that so I don't really, I kind of fell off of no doubt That that's all actually original was on the go OST shout out to my wife if you know you know Which only she does, okay, but you know that one about
09:54 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: if it's kind of Fleetwood Mackey to have a lot of the songs on tragic kingdom be about her relationship with Tony Canal, the bass player.
10:02 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That song, new is about Gavin Russell.
10:04 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_08]: All I want to talk about was Gwen's finance relationships.
10:06 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_08]: That's like literally all I want to do is my whole notes.
10:09 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just some of their relationship.
10:10 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I have Laura to thank for pulling me out of writing off no doubt.
10:15 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to do that side track, but you also fell off a note
10:22 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: We're you know that fan.
10:24 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is more of my scene.
10:25 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: A little bit than you this style of music.
10:27 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So Kyle kind of.
10:28 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_08]: In my like the bins of music in my head, and I know this is probably inaccurate, but I put like no doubt.
10:35 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was in like high school, late middle school, high school probably.
10:39 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_08]: I like think of them with sublime kind of, I think of them with a lot of more set.
10:44 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_08]: And I know that that like is mixing a lot of genres together, but that's just like the time stamp of my life of like stuff I was listening to.
10:51 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sublime literally their second record saw red.
10:54 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a clip of it, but funny is co-lead vocals.
10:58 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And then so good.
10:59 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not wrong, group them because they were kind of this third wave, Scott adjacent.
11:05 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you listen to, this isn't early song of theirs, which they actually Gwen was not originally their lead singer.
11:11 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: She was a backing vocalist.
11:13 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like the teenage little sister of the keyboardist, Eric.
11:17 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: who instantly left the band after tragic kingdom came out to be an animator on the Simpsons.
11:23 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
11:23 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You know that?
11:24 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So she was the back of vocalist and their lead vocalist was a guy named John Spence.
11:29 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
11:29 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: This is their song which then got remade later on one of their albums, but this is total hate.
11:33 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_00]: 1987.
11:34 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how long ago that was.
11:36 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
11:36 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: 1987 it has horns and everything like way more in the scocene at that point.
12:02 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_08]: So like, did you hear her in the background?
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: She's singing with him, yeah.
12:05 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Just young.
12:06 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Just went by 17.
12:07 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, something like that.
12:09 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But he, unfortunately, in 1987, dies by suicide.
12:14 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, sad.
12:14 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And then their trumpet player becomes lead vocals for a bit.
12:18 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But finally, she ends up becoming the soul lead singer in 1989.
12:22 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we just heard is on their second album, Began Street Collection with Bradley Noel from Sublime Singing With Her.
12:29 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
12:31 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_08]: they're like grew up together on or that yeah they're kind of you're you're right to put lump them I don't know if the Canadian alt rocker alignists more a set it's just like what I'm also listening to Bjork a lot in that era oh wow which is like we are just like different yeah I think of them and like jazzy in metallica so I like looped them together when I look think of like the CDs I had sure like those I can see the images in my head as we talk about it
12:56 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_08]: If that tragic kingdom cover, it was such a good cover.
12:59 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the liner notes were so cool.
13:01 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_08]: I like wanting to live in Southern California.
13:03 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even though it's like that.
13:05 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a negative.
13:07 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the beginning of the don't speak video, yeah, based player Tony like picks up a rotting orange, right, orange county.
13:14 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's rotten, right?
13:15 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was like the dog time is the tragic kingdom.
13:17 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They're from Anha.
13:18 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Like Z boys and all that like that whole culture.
13:21 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I was really interested in that.
13:23 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted.
13:23 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_08]: It was so different from how I grew up that I just was very romanticized for me.
13:27 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: On the balance, you like no doubt or not, like no doubt.
13:30 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_08]: I like no doubt, but I don't like Gwen's to find me that much.
13:39 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not my favorite one.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:41 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
13:41 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we know it's not my favorite one.
13:42 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It is still like outside the genre.
13:44 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, it's just a different song.
13:46 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still a pop rock.
13:47 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
13:48 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this is a bad.
13:49 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a song I think is a bad song.
13:51 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I like, I'm chose it because I have an interesting conversation.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Musical to have about it.
13:55 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's well written.
13:56 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's well performed.
13:57 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Hotel California for me.
13:59 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, it's good, but it's over.
14:01 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sick.
14:01 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, not that I skip Hotel California.
14:03 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm listening to that record, but I'm not excited to hear Hotel California.
14:07 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: because I've heard it too many times.
14:08 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_08]: If I hear the song on the radio, I'll change the station.
14:11 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
14:11 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:11 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
14:11 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're on that stage.
14:13 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm there, but I think I was in 1996 or five, right?
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't like Gwen Stefani, so let me just lay this out right now.
14:21 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we need to talk about it, but right, it's just, this is one of those evolving thing, putting it here as a timestamp so people can.
14:28 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
14:29 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: If by the time this comes out in a few weeks, if people are like, oh, no, but there is like a bit of a thing right now with Gwen Stefani.
14:37 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Please let me talk about it.
14:38 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_08]: This is all I want to talk about is like Gwen Stefani and how she like appropriates culture based on who she's in her current relationship with.
14:47 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_08]: That's like my whole.
14:47 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the, this is the Tucker Carlson thing.
14:50 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to talk about.
14:51 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, no, I'm, that's part of it.
14:53 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, then we'll just come back to it.
14:55 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll come back to it.
14:56 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
14:57 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's at least set up what this song is for.
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
15:00 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So also folks, if any of you are no doubt fans apparently they're doing a Vegas residency in May, June, which means like now.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So if anybody goes hit us up.
15:12 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know how it is.
15:14 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Get us tickets.
15:15 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's.
15:16 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe too late.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Put it on.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not going to Vegas.
15:18 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So don't speak comes from tragic kingdom, of course, but what I wanted to just mention kind of lay out before you deep dive in whatever you want to talk about, because I was just going to do one of my like, let's just put it here, acknowledge it and move on and not talk about it.
15:33 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to really talk about it.
15:34 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the story of this album is wild and worth just like putting out there because they record this first album with inner scope records.
15:42 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and then the band kind of got ignored by the label.
15:45 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's one of those situations where they kept submitting songs and label was rejecting them.
15:51 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So they basically do their whole second album by themselves.
15:54 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Somehow their record contract allowed them to do this.
15:56 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
15:57 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the Beacon Street Collection from 1995.
16:01 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And it sold well locally and attracted the interest again, like they got the attention of Innerscope, who then hired, I guess, like, quote, a real producer, who is Matthew Wilder?
16:13 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
16:14 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember Matthew Wilder?
16:15 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Sounds super good.
16:17 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Another white guy playing Reggae, a Jason music.
16:20 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
16:20 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_00]: This is 1983, Break My Stride.
16:27 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_06]: You got the old guy in my sky.
16:27 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody looks for me now.
16:41 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that guy, and apparently maybe Eric's the funny left to go animate for the Simpsons, because having a real proof or like also meant like the band lost some creative control, but I just wanted to highlight how they had two albums come out in the same year.
16:56 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The one they self released or self created at least is March, and then this album turns around so fast, October of the same year, they put together all the tracks.
17:07 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And we hear of people work on, I mean, it took me like two years to be part of it.
17:12 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_08]: But they probably had like a huge catalog of music that was never really easy.
17:16 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody songs might have been half written and stuff.
17:18 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:19 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But still, that's super impressive.
17:22 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So details on the song.
17:24 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think is their biggest hit?
17:26 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_08]: No doubt, it's biggest hit.
17:27 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: No doubt, it's biggest hit.
17:28 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Not Gwen Stefani.
17:30 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not hollow back girling on this list or whatever, right?
17:32 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Holla, back home.
17:34 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right, damn.
17:35 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
17:35 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to get hip on my early 2000s slang.
17:39 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Um, what do I think is their biggest hit?
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: What would you think?
17:42 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: What would you think?
17:42 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you'd say like just a girl or don't speak probably, but I bet you it's probably something later in their catalog, but I can't really recall what those songs are.
17:50 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have thought it's this song, right?
17:52 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
17:53 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So underneath at all, we did number three in 2011.
17:56 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
17:57 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, baby at number five in 2001, it's my life was top 10.
18:02 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the cover of talk talks.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It's my life.
18:05 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:05 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a really good cover.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_08]: No, don't you forget it's my life.
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll play later.
18:14 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a key change in it that I'm going to play later.
18:17 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:17 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You've never heard talk talks version either.
18:19 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's good.
18:21 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll come up late.
18:21 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I probably have.
18:22 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I always do that.
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is one of those examples.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Where?
18:27 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It spent 16 weeks at the number one spot on the Hot 100 error play chart.
18:32 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
18:33 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But because it was actually the most widely played song on American radio in 1996, but was ineligible for the Billboard Hot 100.
18:42 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Why?
18:42 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's technically not a single.
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just from the album.
18:45 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, interesting.
18:46 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So...
18:47 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And that feeling like that's maybe come up in this podcast before we tried to figure out all that stuff before it does it is stupid And I think as singles as an official thing have Receited and the culture I think that's not a rule.
19:01 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like it's Michael Scott when he declares bankruptcy I declare I declare this a hingo Yeah, and it was nominated for song the beer at the 1998 Grammys.
19:11 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It did not win.
19:13 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, this song
19:14 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: people at school said it was about Bradley from Sublime.
19:17 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He hadn't even died when it was written.
19:19 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So like that's not possible.
19:21 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a whole year too early, but this song started as a love song written by Eric and then merged to be a breakup song between Tony and Gwen.
19:29 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And why don't I like it?
19:32 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
19:32 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked the video.
19:33 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's good song.
19:34 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a power ballad, which for me isn't uphill climb.
19:38 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
19:38 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, I don't like the bridge.
19:40 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love- You love a bridge.
19:42 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Famously.
19:43 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Famously.
19:43 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually I am famous.
19:44 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_08]: You mentioned it a lot, like, so I get it.
19:49 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't force, get to the court.
19:50 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't force, get to the court.
19:51 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But then spend some time in a dog bridge in the size of yours.
19:55 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to talk about nifty key change technique that I've been wanting to talk about all season and finally found a good song for it.
20:02 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if I don't like the sun that much, but I like the band a lot.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to talk about crazy stuff?
20:08 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_08]: No.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a yes.
20:09 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you want to go first and whatever steam we have left, I will spend talking about cords.
20:31 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I like the idea of nifty key changes.
20:34 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_08]: I wanna like think about that.
20:36 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Like how we had these like sudden shifts, right?
20:40 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_08]: That may be had like a nice transition moment to it.
20:43 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes them nifty.
20:44 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a transition.
20:45 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Unlike the gear shift from the Metallica episode.
20:48 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
20:49 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_08]: So what I'm interested in talking about is Gwen Stefani's personal life and how she is often a chameleon who morphs into the personality of her romantic partner.
21:04 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm going to lay this out.
21:07 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_00]: just so I can decide how much I should zone out during this conversation.
21:12 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this you speaking from the perspective of a psychology teacher, or you talking from the perspective of a gossip?
21:19 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this ground that in real stuff or is this described in real stuff?
21:22 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_08]: But can't it be both?
21:23 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_08]: I say this to my students.
21:24 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but it is both.
21:25 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Can't we be academic and petty?
21:27 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is both.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's not just totals.
21:31 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no, it's like absolutely so it's called the chameleon effect.
21:35 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_08]: It's natural social, it's like a lot of things.
21:38 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_06]: There we go.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Capital C capital E. Yes.
21:39 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a real thing.
21:40 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_08]: The textbook definition is a subconscious mimicking of a person's behaviors or attitudes and emotions to build rapport with that person.
21:52 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_08]: So the chameleon effect is when you shift your personality subconsciously, you don't do it on purpose.
21:57 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_08]: So the other person likes you more.
22:00 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_08]: And we do that.
22:00 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like people do that all the time.
22:02 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:02 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's not a bad thing.
22:03 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_08]: It's an adaptive thing.
22:05 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
22:05 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_08]: But also with Gwen Stefani, what she is guilty of is this idea of serial monogamy, that she goes from boyfriend to boyfriend without breaks in between.
22:15 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_08]: She gets out of really long-term relationships and then almost immediately.
22:22 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_08]: doesn't have a refractory period, which relationships goes right into the next one.
22:26 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_08]: And in that next relationship shifts her identity to to match her now current partner.
22:32 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: You're started with the word she is guilty of it, implying not only that that is bad, but that serial monogamy is bad.
22:39 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that necessarily bad?
22:41 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the penny piece.
22:42 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_08]: That's where you pay.
22:43 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_08]: That's maybe a penny.
22:44 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I don't necessarily think it's bad.
22:48 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_08]: It's very, um, what's the word I'm looking for, where, like, I'm guilty of it, too.
22:55 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're a hypocrite.
22:56 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it would be a hypocrite.
22:58 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the word I'm looking for.
22:59 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It was on the tip of my tongue when I was thinking.
23:01 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I've got no, I mean, I've been with my current partner for 20 years, but before that, I did have moments of being single for years, right?
23:10 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_08]: They were long ago.
23:12 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's not the serial monogne we that bothers me it's like the rapid just shifting of identity to match her new partner.
23:19 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_08]: So we're going to go through it.
23:21 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to go through like the stages of Gwen Stefani and no doubt and her relationships.
23:27 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
23:28 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:28 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready?
23:28 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_08]: I just don't out.
23:31 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You grounded it with a capital C capital E term, chameleon effect.
23:34 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not I'm actually less likely to zone out if it's grown.
23:37 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're you're not just you.
23:39 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm petty.
23:40 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's it's not just
23:42 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The whole time I'm listening, I'm thinking, God, am I going to have to edit this out?
23:45 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this inappropriate?
23:45 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this like what are we going to do?
23:47 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I meet Gwen Stefani, is this going to be, okay, so go ahead.
23:50 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I am all ears.
23:52 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_08]: This is not anything that is in part of like public record, it's not like I'm like snooping on the internet.
23:57 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Like this is just as a Gwen Stefani fan, you would know this information.
24:01 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_08]: So she was with her base player, no doubt, Tony Canal.
24:06 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_08]: from 1987 to 1994.
24:09 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_08]: She was 17 years old when they started dating, which is young.
24:14 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
24:15 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_08]: And she was with him for a long time.
24:17 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_08]: So from 17 to early mid 20, baby came adults.
24:22 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_08]: During this no doubt, very scab punk Tony was South Asian, his family was South Asian.
24:29 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_08]: She wore lots of like bindies and had a lot of like that type of She had her during that time when she was with him right you don't see that again from Gwen Stefani When she after she breaks up with Tony that persona goes away.
24:44 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but Okay You use the word appropriation.
24:48 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're still waiting for the expert guest that we can really talk about it, but yes
24:53 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:54 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife is Jewish.
24:56 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_00]: When we got married, there were some Jewish traditions in our wedding.
25:00 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Was I appropriating by like honoring that part of her family by being lifted up in the chair?
25:06 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know what I mean?
25:06 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, that was done to me.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what I mean?
25:09 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah sure.
25:10 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_08]: maybe I'm preemptively defending but like could it be possible that there's a world where a way of honoring her relationship was this is a sign that we are a couple like I don't know I don't I understand you're that perspective but I think it's different you honoring a longstanding Jewish tradition at your Jewish wedding to your Jewish wife what it wasn't a Jewish wedding right but like you did you step on a glass and break the glass
25:37 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember a lot.
25:39 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
25:39 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember being hoisted in the chair more than anything.
25:41 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we did.
25:43 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
25:44 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we did random Christian stuff too.
25:45 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:45 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's I think that that doesn't feel like a appropriation that just feels like honoring heritage.
25:50 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:51 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Wearing like a bindi and a sorry to the VMAs feels more performative than like stomping on the glass to ward off the spirits.
25:59 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and it's not like Tony can all is ever looking traditionally South Asian and his dress either.
26:03 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He looks like a punk.
26:05 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I say that like with with love like he's got like down here and like he looks like he plays in that band and when she was with him She did too.
26:13 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_08]: She looked like a punk.
26:14 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_08]: She was in to scoff very punk the California scene and that was where she grew up That seems like very to me very authentic because of the time in place that you put Gwen Stefani It'll be an exe so cap for me.
26:26 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_08]: It only became in authentic when she moved on from Tony.
26:30 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay
26:31 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_08]: And then she switches very quickly to Gavin Rossdale from Bush from Yeah, from 1995 to 2015, they were together a really, really long time.
26:40 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You say serial monogamous, but like that's a relationship.
26:44 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a relationship.
26:44 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was just immediately after.
26:46 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_08]: She's only had, yeah, it's just immediately after a 10 year relationship, immediately goes into a 20 year relationship, where she again kind of codes, which is to
26:55 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_08]: suit her partner to be super British or something shifted to like from this playful California edgy scog girl to this kind of darker edger 90s all rock persona
27:10 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, call a back girl, like, that's like, she got all dance Holly and hip hoppy.
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, maybe.
27:16 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And the sound like the Rock City album, which is in the middle of that relationship, is all Jamaican influenced.
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's a little bit more cerebral.
27:23 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
27:24 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Then some of the previous stuff, for sure.
27:26 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_08]: A little less like cathartic and more cerebral, I think.
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Especially the truth that you started on.
27:31 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
27:32 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_08]: So she's with him for 20 years.
27:35 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_08]: They break up in 2015 and then she gets together with Blake Shelton.
27:40 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_08]: And this is where we're going to talk about the talk Carlson stuff.
27:43 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
27:43 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's that's recently.
27:45 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's very interesting.
27:46 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
27:47 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
27:47 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_08]: So when she gets with Blake Shelton, we see another
27:55 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_08]: so cow punk no longer this like cerebral European now it is cowboy boots country rock changing into like more of a maga persona you know that's really loaded but there's lots of on the internet about like maga face and like how she's like wearing her makeup how she's styling herself it's feeling very right leaning see I only know anything so
28:20 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The controversy I ever heard about, just to be specific, it was recently she was like praising an interview on Tucker Carlson's show with Jonathan Rumi as like all this is a great interview when people like why are you elevating and think what you think politically, but Tucker Carlson show is highly controversial, right?
28:37 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So you could understand a portion of her fan base being very disappointed in that whatever she was ultimately saying and that was the last I heard of it.
28:43 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_08]: And also you think like I don't know when I think of no doubt I think of a band that really honored their true personality and like their true identity in a way that opened up a lot of conversations for like young queer kids to like own that and for girls to feel powerful, right?
29:01 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's the takeaway I got in those messages like, I'm just a girl.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a girl, right?
29:06 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_08]: That kind of satirical, like, I'm so powerful.
29:09 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_08]: And then to see her now, this icon that females like boost up is like, you can be powerful, you can be punk and beautiful too.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_08]: You can be rough and beautiful.
29:20 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_00]: She and you talk curls now.
29:22 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_08]: And now it's like, yeah, like Botox polished stand by your man, which is fine.
29:28 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_08]: That's like a fine way to be, but it's just so different than Nicole Trattweiter.
29:32 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_08]: It is.
29:33 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_08]: And like, that's the vibe.
29:34 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And it, but you weren't in a punk band in the 1990s.
29:37 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I just have been spent with Stefani as this like icon for like,
29:41 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_08]: feminine power and to see her now like when I'm looking at this analysis was just really just being subservient to the men that she's with and kind of being a chameleon towards the men that she's with.
29:52 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a bummer.
29:53 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a real bummer.
29:54 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_08]: There's more than just the Tucker Carlson stuff now.
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, see I don't know.
29:57 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_08]: there's more about this mega persona than just the Tucker Carlson.
30:04 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm stumbling over this idea of mega persona that sounds like very pejorative.
30:08 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't mean it to be.
30:10 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone's you can believe whatever you want politically.
30:13 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You're you're saying that it is a dramatic shift to what she was even just a few years before.
30:18 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:18 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_08]: That's the point you're made in a way that like.
30:20 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: might upset her fan base like is Blake Shelton mag or is it just it's sort of this like I almost associate that vibe with like the Justin Timberlake moving the Montana kind of scene just like yeah and maybe weird modern country super rich person country vibe that has become popular which mmm
30:40 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe overlaps with maga, but maybe doesn't this next piece isn't really political but more like religion based so it goes back to this idea of like adopting and attaching to like South Asian traditions with her first partner Okay, and now she's attaching to very Christian traditions with Blake Shelton to the point that she's the face of an app called halo H-A-L-L-O-W.
31:01 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_08]: It's the number one Catholic prayer and meditation app.
31:05 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:05 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Their tagline has paid a prey
31:07 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: pay to pry out.
31:08 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the indulances going back to their Protestant reformation again.
31:13 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_08]: That's kind of disappointing even more of her fans like now she's she's the sponsor.
31:17 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_08]: She's the face of this app to advocate like a Christian lifestyle and to get back to Christian values, which is a dog whistle for magas stuff.
31:25 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_08]: As far as I I hear it, but maybe that's not true.
31:28 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
31:29 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it shouldn't need to be, but certainly.
31:32 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:32 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, whatever we say, get back to blank values.
31:35 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:36 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_08]: That for me seems like the antithesis of what no doubt stood for.
31:40 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
31:41 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Kind of smashing the state, being on the fringe, and being like, you're high energy.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_08]: We don't care what people think of us.
31:49 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_08]: I just can't get over this.
31:50 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_08]: If you put like Gwen Stefani from 1990, next to Gwen Stefani from 2026,
31:56 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we all grow and change for sure, but it's just such a dramatic change and you really can correlate those changes to who her romantic partners are.
32:05 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's really interesting because they do seem to me to be like sudden and interesting transitions in a way that somehow relates to key changes.
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Did I do it?
32:20 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You've made an attempt.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is this
32:26 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if James Hettfield or Kirk Hammett from Metallica had had this aspect, it would be excellent because we were talking about truck driver modulations that are traumatic and sudden and what were in a new key.
32:42 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: What I want to talk about is pivot cord modulations, which is a type of key change that disguises the key change.
32:48 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you suddenly didn't realize that Gwen Stefani went from punk rocker to country, Utah curls, then like Fox News host, make up or whatever, that would be a pivot cord.
33:02 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: But it sounds like you're suggesting dramatic and immediate sudden noticeable.
33:05 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe they aren't.
33:07 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_08]: They're noticeable only because we only see snippets of her that she puts in the public eye.
33:12 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe in her world, they are, of course, they must feel more organic day-to-day.
33:16 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_08]: And we're just seeing snippets, right?
33:18 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_08]: So...
33:19 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe it works.
33:20 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
33:21 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I want to talk about is a different kind of key change from the ones we've been talking about, where in those, we would just sort of like turn on a new key.
33:31 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's sort of pejoratively was called a truck driver modulation.
33:34 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Direct modulation is like more humane music theory term.
33:38 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But basically what we have in this song is, this is not one where at the end we go up a whole step or whatever.
33:45 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_00]: The verse and chorus and sort of the bridge even though I'm not who's fan of the bridge.
33:49 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The verse and chorus are in different keys and so over the chorus of the song we have depending on how you classify the bridges key either five or six different key changes.
33:59 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It moves from C minor or maybe E flat major depending on how you kind of track it.
34:03 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_00]: to the chorus, which is F minor.
34:06 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And it goes back and forth.
34:07 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing about this kind of key change is it's much more subtle.
34:12 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a smooth transition where it's only like you're learning to play the song or something you go, huh?
34:19 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in a different key.
34:20 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You as the listener don't perceive it, whereas the chorus of Anderson Man or even there was a modulation into the chorus
34:32 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The ending of I will always love you or whatever, and she goes to the high note, living on a prayer, these direct modulations draw attention to themselves.
34:40 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And here we have something very different, right?
34:43 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's sort of more finessed.
34:45 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's part of what demonstrates the song is actually like well written.
34:48 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a smart song.
34:49 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
34:50 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: it's just it was just kind of overplayed.
34:52 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
34:52 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So before we do that, I will honor a few no doubt key changes that are truck driver modulations just to show these aren't necessarily bad.
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a different different way of doing it.
35:02 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: This is bath water from return to a Saturn 2000.
35:06 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The verse is in E minor, but then they just hit the five of G and go right into G.
35:12 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_04]: In the bag, I'm much too heavy in my empty insecure condition My pregnant mind is fatful
35:33 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I love that song.
35:35 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
35:36 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that album I really liked it.
35:37 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_08]: But I thought, she's kind of great unique voice.
35:41 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah, that's, I mean, no one wants to find me.
35:43 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: This song of that play has the craziest, like, Gwen wobbling.
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what she does, right?
35:48 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Trats in a box from 1992, first album.
35:51 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, they are a scob end at this point.
35:54 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This one's weird.
35:55 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's indeed, but it hits this F which gets us to a C chord, which brings us to G, like it's definitely not a smooth transition.
36:03 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_06]: So this is the other type of key change.
36:24 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'd love to hear her do an album with like jazz standards.
36:29 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
36:29 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
36:29 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That is very jazzy like rock bass there.
36:32 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:32 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_08]: I would like more on that.
36:34 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
36:34 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Make that happen.
36:35 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:36 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that you need a new boyfriend.
36:37 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_07]: You'll get a new boy friend.
36:38 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: She starts dating Michael Boo Blair.
36:39 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
36:39 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Then she'll.
36:40 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_00]: She'll do.
36:43 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep it in the privacy of your own.
36:44 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
36:45 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: One more example.
36:46 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a cover.
36:47 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This is it's my life.
36:48 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The 1984 talk talks on.
36:50 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you just talk about us.
36:51 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_07]: I have it.
36:52 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: E-major, but then it just slams an F-court and goes right into D-flat, really strange transition.
36:58 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool song, though, in a good cover.
37:20 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know that.
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Surprise, surprise.
37:21 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_08]: I do know that's all I love about it.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's awesome.
37:24 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And the original is awesome too.
37:25 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_08]: I even realized it pretty well as a cover song.
37:28 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_08]: I just thought that would happen.
37:28 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, there's definitely an 80's version.
37:30 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not.
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Their version is in very different from it.
37:32 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty straightforward.
37:33 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a great song.
37:34 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_06]: That's a great song.
37:35 --> 37:35 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
37:51 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so, here we are, don't speak.
37:54 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What we're dealing with here, what a pivot chord modulation is is when you have a chord or chords that exist in both keys.
38:03 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're in one key, you're going to another.
38:06 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: If those keys have a few chords in common, you play those chords between the key change and it makes it so you kind of don't notice the key change.
38:17 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You use it at the end.
38:18 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of boiling the frog, right?
38:20 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_08]: Boyling the frog.
38:21 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like you don't notice that you're being boiled because the temperature gradually gets hotter.
38:25 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Is that I'm too... To chill in the morning.
38:28 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You've never heard anybody talk about boyling the frog.
38:30 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Boyling the frog is like, things are getting worse and worse and worse, but you don't notice because if you're in the pot, allegedly, somebody did this is terrifying.
38:38 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, if you put an ant, if you like boil a frog or whatever.
38:42 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:42 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't know to jump out because it gets hot gradually enough.
38:45 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't notice what's happening and it will just die.
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really gross.
38:49 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You've never heard that before.
38:50 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_08]: I've never heard.
38:51 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So many questions.
38:51 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Did I make that up?
38:52 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I made that up.
38:53 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_08]: I would you boil a frog.
38:54 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I don't know.
38:55 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like an animal.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_08]: It's really inhumane.
38:58 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, boil a little water first and put the frog in right away and put the little on it.
39:01 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_08]: So it's nice quick.
39:02 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_08]: Or freeze the frog first and then put it in boiling water.
39:05 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's totally a thing.
39:07 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Look it up.
39:07 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: People say that as a euphemism for like.
39:11 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I understand the expression, I just don't, I've never heard it before.
39:15 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't notice that we've changed keys because going in, I'm in, let's say, the key of C minor here, retro, respectively, the chords that I just played make sense in the new key also.
39:25 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_08]: Like I said, I talked about hindsight by the way, we already recorded it.
39:31 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Save it for another episode.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
39:33 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to play the verse section.
39:35 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So we can hear the original key.
39:36 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's either C minor or E flat major,
39:40 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_00]: but it doesn't play the E-flat chord, so it's kind of unclear.
39:43 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to hear C minor than G minor F minor, B-flat G, my all chords with in that key.
40:04 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so fields like we're in the key of C-ish.
40:08 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe relative major or whatever.
40:10 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Either way, we are not in the same key that we're gonna go to.
40:13 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It repeats, but then something happens in the pre-chorus.
40:17 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Good old pre-chorus, always up to no good.
40:19 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_03]: It looks the stuff, you're letting go.
40:27 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And if it's real, I don't want to know.
40:43 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're in F, that's minor.
40:46 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It happened.
40:46 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_08]: It happened.
40:47 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_08]: You can kind of, you can feel the shift.
40:50 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Something's happening.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_08]: Something's happening.
40:52 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_08]: It's building.
40:54 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's not this truck driver.
40:56 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not your matter.
40:58 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a change.
40:59 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But though dramatic moments are also the big drum fill and the volume swell.
41:04 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's not the chords really that are giving us the drama.
41:07 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It is, but it's not the same as the suddenness of and to sand that or something.
41:11 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's zoom in just on that moment.
41:12 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the modulation itself.
41:16 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's real, I don't want to know.
41:23 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Don't make the notes.
41:24 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And now we're in F, right?
41:25 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_08]: You know what, when you played it, I was like, that's the modulation.
41:28 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_08]: I should have said it out loud, and it seems so smart.
41:30 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not that it's like, it's really difficult to make it completely invisible.
41:35 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
41:35 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And also for what?
41:36 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you really teach engine usually want it to, like be noticed a little bit.
41:40 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a little more subtle than the other way.
41:42 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So getting specific, these chords between the key change or that make up the key change exist at least mostly in both keys.
41:52 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So, for example, if we consider C minor, we have two chords that are our pivot chords.
41:59 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_00]: E flat and B flat.
42:01 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: E flat is the three chord.
42:03 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: B flat is the seven chord, so those chords both exist in that key.
42:07 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_00]: If we consider the verse to be an E flat major, then the E flat is the one and the B flat is the five.
42:12 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So either way, it's not entirely clear which key the verse is in, which of those, but those two chords exist perfectly.
42:19 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But in the chorus, those two chords are E flat is the seven, B flat is the four, though it's the major four, which is less common, but still happens in minor.
42:30 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can see that any of those keys, these two chords have an identity, right?
42:36 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The verse has nothing to do with the key of F minor, but the chords happening in the pre-chorus exist also in that key.
42:47 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_08]: two keys have like similarities and differences, but what we're doing here is we're like the similarities are sticking and everything else is changing around them.
42:56 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_08]: So it makes a new key but the chords like cross-poll and eight each.
43:02 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_08]: And we're explaining in a way that makes sense in my head.
43:04 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_08]: It makes sense in your head when I say a lot.
43:06 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_08]: But like we're using them as like the cornerstone.
43:09 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_08]: These like this be flat and E and it's just like they're shifting positions
43:15 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
43:15 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_08]: But they're still there, so it makes sense.
43:18 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_08]: And now we build new cords and this different key around the positions that changed.
43:25 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you might be making it more cup.
43:27 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: What if you're walking between two buildings and there's like a covered tunnel or something between them for weather, like which building is that tunnel apart of, right?
43:37 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of a part of one and a sort of a part of the second building.
43:40 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_08]: I can like see it in my head better than I can explain it.
43:43 --> 43:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
43:44 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And that helps the listeners, I'm sure.
43:45 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's great for watching.
43:47 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think like there's a transition between two buildings or a transition between two seasons that is blurry or that it's not suddenly went from snow to hot, we have spring and is raining for a while, right?
44:06 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get real with some Bach for a second.
44:08 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Ah-Gault Airhorn 9 Soyvesyn-Und-Vic-Lagan.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: BWV254.
44:16 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Written around 1725, we start in F major, but near the end of the passage, we have an E half diminished chord, and that is a pivot chord because that chord is 7 and F, but is the two chord in D minor, and then we get the five of D minor and go on, listen,
44:38 --> 44:52 [UNKNOWN]: You might say to the cool day of the hour, that's reaching by the cool day of the sun.
44:55 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So, that was a very clearly major and very clearly minor at the end there.
45:00 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Back to no doubt.
45:02 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the pre-chorus modulation moment one more time, and then we'll see what these chords mean in different keys.
45:18 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So two chords there, giving us this moment.
45:21 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Here are the two chords, just play it on my piano.
45:24 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got our E-flat chord and our B-flat.
45:30 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: If we're in the key of C minor, which we start in, this is how those chords fit in with that key.
45:36 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_00]: That's C minor.
45:42 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So those chords sound nice, remember the first maybe is also, we could say it's in E flat.
45:47 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's what that sounds like.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: E flat, now B flat, make sense.
45:56 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So bright, what about F minor?
46:00 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If we hear it in F minor, here's what those chords sound like.
46:12 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So a little bit stranger, but the cord still mostly makes sense.
46:18 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, when we hear that pivot, one more time, I'm going to play the whole shabang, and when you hear those two moments, yeah, you're getting glued in maybe to something that's happening here, but if you were to back up and only start, well, maybe I should just do that.
46:33 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what the chords sound like going in.
46:45 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing that we've heard isn't in C minor.
46:48 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That all makes perfect sense.
46:50 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Now let's pretend we're only ever in F minor.
46:52 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And give this real I don't want to know.
47:00 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense too, right?
47:02 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Going in, it's the color red.
47:05 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Then it turns purple coming out, it's the color blue.
47:07 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
47:08 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you start in purple, the blue, that purple's a version of blue, but if you start red, that purple's a version of red.
47:13 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_08]: That makes a lot of sense.
47:15 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
47:16 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Colorblind listeners, which there are probably many of you, probably shouldn't have chosen, is it a red one of the dumb ones?
47:21 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have chosen a different one.
47:22 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have chosen the dumb ones.
47:23 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Green, no, no, no, no, no, the problematic ones.
47:27 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, in yellow, I think maybe are it.
47:29 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_08]: But they have their own versions, and they're your still works.
47:31 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_08]: That's fine.
47:32 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you used her confusing metaphor before.
47:34 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_08]: So I like the tunnels between buildings.
47:37 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, well, they understand it.
47:38 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: We're over explaining.
47:40 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so speaking of over explaining, here's a few examples of this in other songs.
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we can just see what happens at the rest of the song.
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_08]: We can bring it back to note.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's nice.
47:49 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was saving that for a while.
47:50 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's some note out.
47:51 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This is excuse me, Mr. also from tragic kingdom.
47:55 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Indie minor, but then pivot's to F. And so there's a pivot chord of B flat and G minor, which B flat is six and four in the first key, and four and two in the second key.
48:20 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_06]: It got things all wrong
48:25 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_08]: That was my favorite song in the album when I was a child.
48:28 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I haven't heard for a minute.
48:30 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_08]: I love, yeah, for me.
48:31 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_08]: And I haven't heard it for so long.
48:34 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_08]: And I could still sing every lyric to that.
48:36 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's a mouthful too.
48:38 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a good song.
48:38 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
48:39 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy now?
48:40 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, or are you happy, maybe it's called also from tragic kingdom?
48:44 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This one's an A minor goes to the key of C, one pivot chord F major, which is six in the key of A minor for in the key of C.
48:53 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's because you like no doubt.
49:18 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_08]: I think I like no doubt.
49:20 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh god, I hope thesis is
49:23 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so my favorite note-out song, new.
49:26 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Devon Rossdale.
49:28 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_00]: What it's about, 1999.
49:30 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: This, I'm going to play a couple clips just to, so you can hear the different phases of these key changes.
49:35 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_00]: This song would have been one I would have actually done.
49:38 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a lot less popular.
49:40 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, people are going to want to hear about it.
49:42 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_08]: They want the hit.
49:42 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: People want to be mad at us about the fact that we don't love don't speak.
49:45 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So the verse of new is an F-sharp minor, kind of a rising scale leading to C-sharp.
49:52 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the main, like, a statement of the key sort of here we go.
49:58 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_06]: attention is gone and I really gravitate to your love.
50:08 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Then we have a pre-chorus which just leads up to the C-sharp which brings us back to F-sharp.
50:15 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm getting the key change.
50:16 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me a second.
50:17 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's that section.
50:33 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But the second pre-chorus that C-sharp is a pivot to A.
50:37 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It's the three-quarter, and then we get the chorus, which maybe you'll go, oh, I've heard that song.
50:54 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I know that song.
51:06 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_08]: Man, I love the good 90s crank snare that snare comes and also like it really does follow this motif that I'm trying to lay out is trying so hard to lay it out that when she's with Gavin like the sound changes like that's not a scar on it's pretty much punk that's like rock like punk yeah not punk rock but like punk I think it's yeah I think it's like 90s rock okay
51:36 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_08]: It's not like bush, but it's not more like bush than it is like tragic kingdom.
51:40 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I don't know.
51:41 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
51:41 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_08]: It's more like bush than it is like sublime.
51:45 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I listen to it there.
51:47 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: A judicate this.
51:47 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_08]: That's there's no you can't say that that's more like sublime than it is like.
51:51 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Even just I made the comment about the cranks snare.
51:53 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The cranks snare is a very like three, eleven sublime sugar ray like so cally kind of kind of.
52:02 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Even despite the cranks snare, I'm it's giving bush.
52:07 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the folks on the discord and the email need to a judicate.
52:11 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm saying this to be controversial.
52:12 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:13 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
52:13 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get away from no doubt.
52:15 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a couple examples of pivot chord modulations from other popular selections.
52:20 --> 52:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Nineteen 77, we are the champions, Queen.
52:23 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Not one on my favorite Queen song.
52:24 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_08]: Not one on my favorite Queen song.
52:26 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's really popular.
52:27 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Did we just boil it for, is that gonna come up in the side?
52:30 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
52:31 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope not.
52:32 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, so whatever.
52:34 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Chorus is an F major and then it gets all chromatic.
52:37 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some weird chords, but it ends on B-flat, which is four that pivot's back to C minor by using an F minor chord.
52:45 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's this B-flat that is four in the one key and seven in the other and then it's just boom one more chord to get us back into the other key.
52:55 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_06]: We are the champions.
53:04 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_06]: We are the champions.
53:08 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Now time will lose them because we are the champions.
53:12 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_06]: All the world.
53:21 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, why does it have to be about winning all this time?
53:25 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_00]: There it is.
53:26 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You talked over the key changes, but you know what?
53:28 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The listeners weren't listening to you.
53:31 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: They will listen to this song anyways.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: See, you think it's happened, but that whole part, it's not.
53:36 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just, that's still the, one of the, they're like building the bill slowly.
53:39 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say not building like the opposite, but if they could receive to the key, it's no matter.
53:43 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_00]: One more, speaking of Anthemic arena rock songs, this is 2002's Skater Boy from Aero Levine, Skater with an eight.
53:51 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I want to talk over at this time, so.
53:53 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, you can, this is louder.
53:54 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you'll be able to interrupt her.
53:57 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Demager, but we have a seven chord, flat seven, which is C, which is the five of F. And so we hear it first as if it's D, and then we kind of use it as a pivot back to F. The songs more complicated than you'd think.
54:12 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_02]: She wanted her, she'd never tell Secretly she wanted him as well And all other friends stuck up the nose And they had a problem with his baby clothes He was a skater boy, she said see a later boy He wasn't good
54:31 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that look mean?
54:32 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just like, I think that why I just really like skater boys, and I think that like they're fine.
54:39 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_08]: Why, why is?
54:40 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is the male egg girl not cool to date the skater boys?
54:45 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_08]: I think about like girl to skater boys like winning combination.
54:48 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's not even really opposite to track, but it's like half of that.
54:51 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, I would say that's fun.
54:53 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's like, yeah.
54:54 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_08]: more than fine.
54:55 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's poetic.
54:56 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But also the first line is she was the boy.
54:58 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, he was the boy.
54:59 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_00]: She was the girl.
55:00 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Could I make it any more obvious, right?
55:01 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's like, I don't know.
55:03 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I understand.
55:04 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it is obvious.
55:05 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why is this weird?
55:07 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Why is it weird?
55:08 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_08]: And like, so what if he is baggy pants?
55:10 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_00]: but it is the point of the song that like she says no and then like regrets it or something I don't remember I don't know.
55:16 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
55:17 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm calling it the Troy Bolton effect.
55:20 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_08]: This Troy Bolton syndrome.
55:22 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: How?
55:23 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
55:23 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_08]: You know who Troy Bolton is?
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I remind me.
55:26 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's a cautionary tale.
55:28 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_08]: So Troy Bolton was this famous, well known, very popular high school athlete, but he wanted to be in the musical at the school.
55:40 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is the high school musical.
55:42 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You did this whole bed already.
55:44 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I still have not seen high school musical.
55:47 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_08]: But the dad would have let him, because his dad was the coach.
55:50 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_08]: OK, and that's a young sack of fun.
55:52 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a young sack of fun.
55:54 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: For my piece of high school.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, yeah.
55:56 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, can we get back to the song?
55:57 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm only going to like, so I want to say, okay.
55:59 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just wanted to point out how we get out of the chorus, right?
56:03 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So because we are an F minor, we have to get back to see minor for the next verse, right?
56:08 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's listen to the end of the first chorus.
56:28 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one chord this time, one pivot chord, the E-flat, which is 7 and F3 in C minor.
56:48 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we start over basically, musically with the C minor.
56:53 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_08]: Does it shift keys when she goes this it's all ending in the bridge?
56:57 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's talk about the bridge, which for some reason I don't like I don't know you Maybe you can explain why you know my musical taste pretty well.
57:03 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:04 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it about this bridge that doesn't really work for me?
57:07 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Here.
57:08 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a direct modulation
57:10 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all ending is, in fact, in a different key.
57:13 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: D-flat major, but I don't perceive a pivot chord.
57:16 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is just like boom, new key.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
57:19 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's kind of weird, because it ends on this big A chord, or honestly, a B-double-flat chord.
57:24 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
57:24 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a B-double-flat chord.
57:26 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_07]: Double-flat.
57:26 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That goes down to an A-flat chord, which is six in C-minor, so it's kind of pivoting.
57:32 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But the way we get there is definitely not a... B-double-flat A-double-sharp.
57:37 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
57:37 --> 57:38 [SPEAKER_00]: G-double-sharp.
57:39 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_00]: A double star would be natural.
57:41 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, be natural.
57:43 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:43 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an A chord and harmonically, but in the key of D flat, it's sort of is a lowered B flat.
57:49 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you, if you were to ride it, you'd got to ride it as a B double flat.
57:53 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, we're not riding it.
57:54 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Here we go.
58:14 --> 58:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So sort of a pivot court to get back to C minor, but not on the way in, and that's what you don't like.
58:20 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't hate it.
58:23 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I love the vocal harmonies and underneath it all, or in rock steady.
58:29 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe it's the vocal harmonies there, I don't know why.
58:32 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's like the power ballad vibe of it.
58:35 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it probably will.
58:36 --> 58:39 [SPEAKER_08]: And like the guitar that doesn't fit with no doubt.
58:39 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_00]: the like it's like a little like it just is like what are you doing here um and you like things don't I or or not I don't know I don't hate it I look this is a good song just pull her to many times that's it it's that simple right to my MTV watching when I was an eighth grader try to give a video for this there must have been yeah yeah I feel like she's just kind of them like it again it starts with like him picking up the rotten orange oh the rotten orange and then it's kind of just them around a house or something
59:08 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not particularly eye-catching or anything like that.
59:12 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
59:13 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_08]: It's cool.
59:13 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_08]: Go on.
59:14 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done.
59:15 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
59:16 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_08]: That's it.
59:16 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we keep talking about the same modulation over and over again, but I think that's it.
59:21 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's it like you said a lot.
59:24 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to more to connect it or do we just find a single end on them.
59:27 --> 59:40 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm thinking more of like, well, we might perceive Gwen Stefani's romantic chameleon Ness As southern shifts for her, they're probably more like there's a pivot court.
59:40 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_08]: There's probably more of a pivot court vibe.
59:43 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It might be four days of being single
59:45 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_08]: or maybe there's like slight overlaps between these romantic partners that she's just like pivoting and latching on to like new I knew aspects of their identity that didn't exist in the previous romantic group.
59:57 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if
59:58 --> 01:00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: is the rebound relationship, the pivot court equivalent.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't really say I've ever had a rebound relationship, not really.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, what if a rebound relationship included characteristics of your past relationship, but some new element that then after the rebound relationship, that is the element you pursued in your next partner?
01:00:15 --> 01:00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be a pivot court.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:17 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's.
01:00:17 --> 01:00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's true, but I don't we don't know of if there was a baby between if she dated like Darious Rucker or whatever in between Daven, well be this is funny.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What would be the pivot point between Tony County and Evan so not a scob and not a postgrunge band It would be like a punk band
01:00:39 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_08]: I think it would be like a full-on punk band like she dated Bill Gerrard himself or something like that Is that a pivot and then what would be the pivot from Gaffin to a Blake Johnson so from
01:00:57 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Did she date Adam Levine?
01:00:58 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but they were all on the voice together in the mind of Adam Levine and midpoint.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_08]: I think maybe Adam Levine's a whole other.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's closer to closer to Gavin's vibe.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_08]: But then he knew Blake.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He knew Blake.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:11 [SPEAKER_08]: They were friends.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:13 [SPEAKER_08]: They have the same like sense of humor.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, right in.
01:01:14 --> 01:01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is the mean between Gavin Rosdale and Blake Shelton?
01:01:21 --> 01:01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That is what Nicole wants to know.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, like who would be the pit- Transitional.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:42 [SPEAKER_08]: Who would be the pit- Pit-forward between the key of C minor and F minor?
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01:01:59 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for listening.