Who ordered all the man candy? In this episode, we dress up for Shania Twain’s 1997 country-rock smash “Man! I feel like a Woman!” After our hosts consider this song and its video’s relation to third-wave feminism in the 1990s, Mark leads us on a journey through the centuries following one type of chord move that gives this song both its bluesy edge and its poppy sheen. Let’s go girls!
Other music heard in this episode: ZZ Top - “La Grange”, Linda Ronstadt - “When Will I Be Loved”, Robert Palmer - “Addicted to Love”, Shania Twain - “Any Man of Mine”, Shania Twain - “You’re Still the One”, J.S. Bach - “Ach Herr, Lass dein lieb Engelein” from St. John Passion (Netherlands Bach Society), George Frideric Handel - “Hallelujah Chorus” from Messiah (Tabernacle Choir), Fisk Jubilee Singers - “Nobody Knows the Trouble I’ve Seen”, Blind Lemon Jefferson - “Rambler Blues”, Little Richard - “Good Golly, Miss Molly”, Dexy’s Midnight Runners - “Come on Eileen”, Guns N’ Roses - “Sweet Child ol Mine”
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00:00 --> 00:00 [SPEAKER_09]: And make sense.
00:01 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_09]: She's so cute.
00:01 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_05]: You've got your laptop there.
00:02 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you look up the album cover of her first record.
00:06 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_05]: She's going full Canada.
00:09 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Shania Twain.
00:10 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_05]: The album cover has her out in the snow.
00:12 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Literally, there's like a wolf with her.
00:14 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to be more Canadian looking.
00:17 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_05]: She would have to have the separate separating jaws from South Park to be more Canadian looking in this.
00:33 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is Nevermind the Music.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_09]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:39 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Today we will be talking about and listening to Shania Twain.
00:44 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Man, I feel like a woman.
01:01 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Man, I feel like a woman.
01:07 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's go girls.
01:08 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Ha ha.
01:09 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Nicole, what is your take on a good exclamation point in the title of the song?
01:14 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't.
01:16 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I have opinions.
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_08]: You're not gonna like it.
01:19 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't really like punctuation in song titles.
01:22 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's too prescriptive.
01:23 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_09]: For this, it's saying like, it feels so shouting.
01:27 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_05]: It takes away the emotional ambiguity of pride.
01:30 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't get to decide.
01:31 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, man, feel like a woman, like you better.
01:34 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_09]: It's just so...
01:35 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
01:36 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_09]: It's loaded to me.
01:37 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think?
01:38 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_05]: The only punctuations that I really hate in song titles are the ones that can't be rendered in text as a file name.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
01:48 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_05]: So for example, a song like, who can it be now or whatever?
01:51 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_05]: I think that has a question mark at the end.
01:53 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_05]: If you name a file or a folder or something on a computer, at least the Windows computer, who can it be now a question mark?
02:00 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_05]: It will
02:05 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_09]: The like file organization never come up for me, but I can recognize how that is how we're bothering me.
02:10 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is bad enough that my own band our new album coming out past fail is past forward slash fail, but forward slash is a thing that means something in computer languages.
02:23 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
02:23 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_05]: So you can't render that as a folder.
02:25 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_05]: I have to go down just quite thin.
02:27 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_05]: I do my thin, right?
02:29 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_05]: And but like the actual sort of visual embodiment of the title will be with the slash and apple music and Spotify can render the slash but like if you download that album everybody download it on band camp band camp front days you can get it we don't have to pay royalties to band camp.
02:46 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I think first Friday of every month, they will replace the slash with like an underscore, or, or, and for something weird like that, right?
02:54 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_05]: So exclamation points like man, I feel like a woman don't bother me as much, but this one has two as two we got what if there was only one in the song, because it's we got man exclamation point.
03:07 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like a woman exclamation point.
03:09 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_05]: If there was only one man, I feel like a woman or man, I feel like a woman,
03:14 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you had to have one, which one's more important because it feels like they're both not needed here.
03:19 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think either of them are important, hot take.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_09]: I think there should be a comma.
03:23 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_05]: So you're okay with punctuation there because it like parses the phrase, but right.
03:28 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't provide a emotional risk.
03:29 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like a woman.
03:31 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so what's the emotional effect of this exclamation, though?
03:34 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it she's excited?
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it she's shouting at us?
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Cause exclamation points are vague like that.
03:40 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_05]: A question mark, kind of questioning, right?
03:43 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_09]: Right, right, right, right.
03:46 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, this song to me is about like girlhood and female empowerment and like owning femininity in a way that's powerful and reframing it in that way, which I generally think is awesome.
03:59 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_09]: I think the exclamation points here are nodding towards that idea of like female empowerment and that should be kind of showedy.
04:07 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_09]: I just didn't know.
04:09 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
04:10 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
04:11 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_09]: I just don't love it.
04:12 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_05]: What's the emotional effect of these iconic exclamation point uses?
04:17 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_05]: The Beatles.
04:19 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Help.
04:19 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Help.
04:21 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_05]: It's an exclamation in the traditional sense.
04:24 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I would say.
04:25 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_05]: suitable use of okay approved the supreme stop exclamation point in the name of love What do you think oh that's a weird phrase it's also a exclamation Right, you're shouting the name of love.
04:41 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's not how I interpret that for here It is a comma, huh?
04:44 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like man.
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like I hear the lowest commas.
04:47 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe I'm just more subdued
04:49 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_05]: I will say that going back to the shenaya song, the man exclamation does separate it so that it draws attention to the juxtaposition of man or man.
05:00 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I think maybe.
05:00 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Tarn exclamation point.
05:02 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Tarn exclamation point.
05:03 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Tarn exclamation point.
05:04 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Open parentheses.
05:05 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_05]: There is a season.
05:06 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Close parentheses.
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_09]: The book.
05:08 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_09]: Tarn turn turn.
05:09 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_05]: There is.
05:10 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_09]: It's so like.
05:11 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_05]: That one makes it take like 10 seconds to read that.
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't think that one works.
05:16 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't understand the emotions behind her.
05:18 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_09]: Turn, turn, turn, turn.
05:19 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_09]: It feels like my GPS is yelling at me.
05:20 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_09]: My husband's yelling at me in the car.
05:22 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, y'all, exclamation point, outcasts.
05:24 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_09]: I actually, you know what?
05:26 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_09]: I pro-exclamation point in that one.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a joyous chance.
05:30 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's like, yeah, where it's just adding value to me.
05:33 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh boy, Q, colon.
05:36 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Are we not men?
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Question mark, A, colon.
05:39 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_05]: We are Dvo, exclamation point by Dvo.
05:42 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_05]: question, you know, are we not men, we are devol, right, which is in the song.
05:46 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_09]: I like the message of that, like what is gender, you know?
05:49 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_05]: But the, well, I think they may be mean men like humanity there.
05:54 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_05]: But the Q and A format, that is just a mouthful.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_09]: It's not to figure out.
05:58 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a lot.
05:58 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't even know that.
05:59 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_05]: The exclamation point balances the question mark.
06:01 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_05]: So it's an antecedent consequent.
06:03 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I think it's like a whole conversation.
06:05 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_09]: You like the, how it's like neatly packaged.
06:09 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Chop sui exclamation point, system of it down.
06:12 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't get it.
06:14 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_05]: That's also, I think that's a, this ban might come up later this evening.
06:18 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_05]: I think Chapsuvi is, and what even is Chapsuvi?
06:22 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Chapsuvi is like an American Chinese adjacent food.
06:27 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_05]: But I similarly kind of don't know what Chapsuvi is, because it's not something that when and where I grew up, you could just like get real Chinese food.
06:35 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm sure it's it's Americanized a lot of the stuff in California, but it is meat and eggs could quickly with vegetables as bean sprouts, cabbage and celery in a starch that can sauce.
06:49 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't think I've ever had it.
06:51 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_05]: It looks gross.
06:51 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_05]: But I think Chapsuie, the system of a down song is not meaningfully named.
06:58 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't remember the deal, but it might be like, they were gonna call it self-righteous suicide or something in the record label made up and so they did a garbage joke.
07:06 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_05]: I could be wrong on that.
07:08 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So one more, I won't list off literally.
07:11 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I can't, I'm actually, every Aquabat song has an exclamation point at the end.
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I won't list those off.
07:17 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Whomp!
07:17 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_05]: Explosion point.
07:18 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Open parentheses.
07:19 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_05]: There it is.
07:20 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Close parentheses.
07:21 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_09]: I do like parentheses and song titles.
07:23 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a whole other thing we could do.
07:26 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_05]: But the Whomp has the exclamation.
07:28 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I like when there's an exclamation mark after and a monopia.
07:33 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_05]: I think, yes, it works well as an exclamation.
07:35 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_05]: What I want to check is does boob there it is, have one?
07:38 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Whoop.
07:39 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_09]: Isn't there it is?
07:40 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_05]: No, not whoop, there it is by tag team, but there it is.
07:46 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_05]: There it is by 95 South, which is around the same time.
07:49 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_05]: There are two competing songs around the same time.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I don't know.
07:53 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's not good to record.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_05]: But I just looked it up.
07:56 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Hoot, there it is, H-W-H-O-O-T has a comma before there it is.
08:02 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Hoop, whoop, whoop, there it is, has in this.
08:05 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the more, more, full well-known song, I think.
08:09 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Whom?
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_09]: There's an owl, but owls.
08:12 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
08:13 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Anyways, we've got two here.
08:16 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_09]: Two exclamation points.
08:17 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Are you a fan of, man, I feel like a woman by Shania Twain?
08:21 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think it's a feminist call to arms.
08:24 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I like this song when it came out.
08:25 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_05]: 1997 from her album, come on over.
08:27 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Though the single was actually a couple years later, that's how long legs it had.
08:32 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_05]: But probably not big surprise.
08:33 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_05]: This was not really my scene to say the least.
08:37 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't like following Shinai Twain or country pop or country rocker any of that, although I will say remember what episode was this when you were asking me like who was my pin up when I was 12 or whatever and I was like no, I was young and I didn't I was intimidated by like I didn't need a crush on celebrity yes, I think by Shinai a Twain era that had she was the one that was the thing of the past, I yeah, I think I was your Luke Perry
08:59 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_05]: my look, I think probably yes.
09:03 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's safe to say that, but not really my scene musically, but I did appreciate a good bookie wookie groove on a tune like this.
09:12 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_05]: I say the bookie beat kind of thing.
09:13 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_05]: That's the shuffle rhythm kind of thing you get with a lot of country rockish kind of stuff.
09:19 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_05]: So, ZZ Top 1973.
09:22 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_05]: La Grange, La Grange, how did he pronounce it?
09:25 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
09:38 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_05]: That ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch
10:03 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_04]: brings us to this group.
10:26 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_09]: cool.
10:26 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_09]: Cool.
10:27 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
10:27 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, since it's great music, like it's not really my traditional style of music I'd go to, but I all through the songs.
10:34 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_09]: I just just feel good when you hear them, even if the lyrics are not good.
10:39 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, when are we going to talk about the lyrics?
10:42 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_05]: This song, when are we going to talk about the video of this song?
10:45 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_05]: The sort of
10:47 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_05]: gender, body, image, stuff.
10:49 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_05]: I, okay.
10:49 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to be talking about key changes.
10:52 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
10:53 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_05]: So again, that's what we mean again.
10:55 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_05]: It's been since Metallica, which was a few months ago, right?
10:59 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So the question I often ask, my talking about key change stuff, or we talking about the man candy in the video and Robert Palmer's, the subversion of that video, or when are we talking about all that stuff, whatever you want to talk about, which happens when?
11:11 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I want to talk about the man candy and about this idea of like woman female empowerment and womanhood in a way that kind of like honors feminism and their fight for the female choice to be girly and have that like be okay because I think in first-way feminism there was a real well I'm not a I'm more of like a third-way feminist but that's maybe a different conversation
11:43 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_05]: Or taking back Sunday, are they third wave email?
11:46 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I kind of like, yeah, I think of like it's like a different iterations or a line with like generational norms and values towards the idea of feminism.
11:54 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Like my mom maybe was like first wave feminist in her gender.
11:57 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_09]: She wasn't.
11:58 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Wasn't first wave feminism like early 20th century?
12:01 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.
12:01 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Like the suffragettes.
12:03 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, like the first.
12:04 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_05]: So your mom maybe more a second wave then?
12:06 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, and that group maybe like in the 60s.
12:08 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Third wave feminist that like,
12:10 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_09]: There's just different viewpoints and now.
12:12 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Aside from the Trablife aspiration.
12:13 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, but that's the whole thing.
12:15 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_09]: That's the whole thing, right?
12:17 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_09]: About man, I feel like a woman is my Trablife aspirations are validated in feminism because I can make that choice to be that.
12:28 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_09]: It's not like I'm told by my husband and my dad that I have to stay in home and raise kids and like, bake meatloafs or whatever.
12:34 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_09]: like I get the choice and in the song she's giving power to that choice like no you can like doll up go out dancing objectify men a little bit and like be girly and have that be powerful and that's such a great message for I mean young young girls I don't think need that message right now I think they are they are born with it but when I was growing up
12:57 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_09]: We were taught, or I was taught, if you want to be powerful, you have to man up.
13:01 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_09]: You have to act like a quote in man and be in a power position.
13:05 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_05]: My wife and I were talking about this recently.
13:07 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't remember why if we watched something from the 80s never, the whole shoulder pads thing.
13:12 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
13:13 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Like the fact that you actually
13:15 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_05]: In the 80s, you were like a working woman, you would wear a suit and you would have to broaden your shoulders like a dude, like that was the style and you'd like that's fine if people like that style, but it was for performative masculinity, which was the only way to be taken seriously and not maybe have your your rear end pinched in the office or something, like that was to wear a more of a manly suit.
13:38 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And that is just so.
13:39 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_09]: And not be girly and feminine because if you were girly and feminine, you were objectified.
13:44 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_09]: So in order to be taken seriously you can't have I mean when I grew up and when I was coming up in my career to like wear a lot of makeup and have your nails done and like have like outfits that were like form fitting and let like show girlhood and showed femininity weren't promoted like it wasn't really allowed in those spaces if you want to be taken seriously.
14:09 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_09]: and now things are changing quite a bit and it's really lovely that girlhood is awesome and like for there's power and femininity and this tonight twain song is like giving it's like speaking truth to power towards that mindset but you can be powerful, you can be a boss and like put a lipstick on, get your nails done, wear a cute outfit.
14:30 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_05]: No, not no, but it's complicated, though, because this song, I don't know that much about Shenai Twain's life, but it feels that there's negative size to that and that it's wrapped up and some stuff that maybe wasn't so hot.
14:43 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, apparently this song is about what you're saying, but grows out of her, like, because she's one of the co-writers on this song, so that might be kind of like specifically the lyrical angles and things like that.
14:55 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_05]: comes from her being really uncomfortable in her body and like talked about I think developing early and being teased and harassed and possibly borderline assaulted for it and not being comfortable with that.
15:07 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_05]: And should I explain like this absolutely beautiful woman to be uncomfortable in your body and your fet is like
15:15 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_05]: So disgusting and ridiculous to think like that that is what society would do to you essentially that she couldn't just be like proud of like herself and comfortable in it that she had it was like what is she probably almost 30 when this song comes out and she's finally like yeah I can own this.
15:32 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean I still think that in the arc of womanhood that's on the young side of self-actualization I think 40s.
15:39 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_09]: There's really what I mean she's the same symbol though so like
15:43 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_05]: But then how many years of people of her being mad until she kind of could find peace with that, right?
15:48 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
15:48 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Or how many years of her being mad did she realize it doesn't matter if other people think I'm a certain way unless I feel it.
15:56 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
15:56 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_09]: And when we talk about like early development, we talk a lot about like, and development is like about puberty, right?
16:02 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_09]: And body changes and biological changes, physiological changes.
16:06 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that there's always the idea that if you're late to develop, there's a social stigma there, and you might be like the victim of bullying if you're late to puberty, but you're mentioning an interesting point that I think that you can really relate to is like early development that when you develop too early in ahead of your peers, you're also vulnerable too.
16:25 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we talked about this on our errands, like we're not doing a UB40 episode.
16:28 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Right, no, we don't need to do that.
16:30 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_05]: What?
16:30 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_05]: It can go both ways of being, you were not so comfortable being late and I was not so comfortable being early.
16:36 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think Shania was early from what you're saying.
16:40 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_09]: And that has a certain set of stigma and certain things attached to it that developmentally can be really tricky to.
16:48 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think maybe this song is her mediating a lot of those stigma's inside herself.
16:53 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_09]: That like it's okay to be right and have a womanly figure, which is the weird
17:00 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_05]: It's all wrapped up in a bunch of dudes.
17:03 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't mean the man can't be on the video.
17:04 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_05]: I want to come back to the man can't be in the video.
17:07 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_05]: People who haven't watched the video are like, what do you have it watch the video?
17:09 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_05]: You don't want to watch that.
17:10 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_05]: So heterosexual women and gay men or people interested watch the video.
17:16 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of attractive men dancing around.
17:18 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_09]: And anyone, let's not even limit.
17:20 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_09]: I think we can find
17:22 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, aesthetically, aesthetically, plus Chennai Twins in it too.
17:25 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_09]: So, well, you don't need to be as sexually attracted to recognize the beauty of the film.
17:30 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_05]: But, okay, so this, and I didn't realize it's the time because I hadn't seen the Robert Palmer video in years, but addicted to love from the 80s.
17:47 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to do to the say I can't get enough and all you can do, I have to face it, you know, just to love
18:01 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's super beautiful robotic-seaning women playing the instruments in the background of that video.
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Have you seen that video recently?
18:09 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not recently.
18:10 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_05]: It looks exactly the same as this, except it's Robert Palmer in front instead of Shania.
18:15 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_05]: And these sort of faceless, clone kind of women.
18:20 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_05]: So she's doing a parody very much of that video.
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And that was completely lost on me.
18:25 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_05]: But the men in her video have the same boy and guide stairs, sort of dead faces.
18:29 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
18:30 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_05]: you know models essentially holding these instruments they don't know how to play right the men are the same as the women in the the palm or video but putting aside the video for a second this song is her and a bunch of dudes her co-writers are dudes every single musician playing on it is a dude there's even the bow bros which are credited as playing the game fiddles which are I guess just rock us background fiddle parts that's four men mm-hmm
18:55 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_05]: there are as far as I can tell no women involved out of the like 20 people in the creation of this and what does that say about country pop radio in the name of the same public in the street just in general i don't think it's like that anymore not so bad but very much was that and and so is that group putting together this pro feminist message is that how they're interpreting it
19:19 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
19:20 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not.
19:21 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe she thinks of it as a, this is like later interviews.
19:24 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_05]: She sang, oh, this was about me being uncomfortable with my body and seizing that power.
19:28 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know that she was saying that in 1997 when this came out.
19:31 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe she was and she was just the boss and telling all these men what to do.
19:35 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, do you know about mutlanged or longs?
19:38 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how to pronounce it.
19:40 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, hurt, rise to start them because she, okay.
19:43 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_05]: So she's Canadian, she has, you didn't know that?
19:47 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_09]: No, I make sense.
19:49 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_09]: She's okay.
19:49 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_05]: You've got your laptop there.
19:50 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Will you look up the album cover of her first record?
19:54 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_05]: She's going full Canada.
19:56 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Shania Twain.
19:58 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_05]: The album cover has her out in the snow, literally there's like a wolf with her.
20:02 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to be more Canadian looking.
20:05 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_05]: She would have to have the separate, separating jaws from South Park to be more Canadian looking than this.
20:10 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_05]: There's no Xamboni or whatever on it, but it's full Canada.
20:14 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_05]: And that first record didn't really hit, but then she releases her second album.
20:20 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_05]: And I think of her early music, the only thing I had heard, and this is still very country, not so much the country rock pop thing.
20:28 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_05]: This is any man of mine.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_05]: This is from 1995.
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_05]: I did recognize this song.
20:32 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_05]: It was a number one single on the country charts, number 31 on the pop charts, so it did get some crossover.
20:54 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_05]: And so that song like has a transition from like a rock beat to a country beat kind of like whiskey river like if you think like Willie Nelson it's a pop song arena rock kind of and then boomed boomed country like she then explodes with this album come on over and it's very much wrapped up in this guy.
21:18 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_05]: but Lange, who's a rock producer, and of course her biggest hit comes from that record, which would be, you're still the one.
21:25 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_05]: It's number two.
21:27 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Think that's her biggest hit.
21:28 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_10]: Interestingly, number two in US, but only number seven in Canada.
21:47 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_09]: You know that her in mutlain were married?
21:54 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what I want to get to.
21:55 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_05]: But first of all, what does that sound like?
21:57 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_05]: To me, that sounds like a song Taylor Swift would write.
21:59 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Listen to the way that starts.
22:01 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_10]: This feels like a Taylor Swift verse or pre-chorus.
22:10 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_05]: There's something about that raising minor six.
22:14 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's very Taylor Swift.
22:16 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there's no way that Taylor Swift wasn't inspired by she's not a thing.
22:19 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously.
22:20 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_05]: So, well, that's the whole thing.
22:22 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
22:22 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_05]: She hooks up with this guy.
22:24 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Robert Langs mutt Langs, this rock producer and he's sort of the special sauce that makes her this explosive star, but then they start dating almost immediately and they get married and he's like 20 years older than her, she's early 20s at this point and there's something about that that skives me out just a little bit.
22:43 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_09]: And they met in June, I'm reading it now, breaking news, they met in June of 1993 and we're married in December of 1993.
22:51 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, and he like holds the keys to her kingdom as it is the one who holds the songs on her song.
22:57 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_05]: He sings the back of vocals on a lot of this music and clearly he's a good clearly like he had the idea of the missing piece, but there's a power dynamic there that's weird, right?
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_09]: That's weird.
23:09 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I had no idea of this and then I started looking at it.
23:11 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_05]: They eventually divorced.
23:13 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_05]: because he had an affair with her best friend, Marie and Fibo, who he then married.
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_05]: But then she married Marie's ex-husband, Frederick Fibo.
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_05]: What the heck is going on?
23:25 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_05]: That's like some Jerry springer level retaliation there.
23:28 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_05]: So like I don't know anything about that really.
23:30 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_05]: It's just there's something about you say maybe she's this woman boss with all these men that she's leaning around.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just not so sure that's what it was.
23:38 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like especially the
23:42 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Machine that even now has a lot of misogyny in it.
23:45 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_05]: I really wanted it to be my way, but but but she's I mean she's claiming a degree of power and independence and she's this huge star and really talented and This song has this positive message and she's got these black-eyed stared clone dudes dancing in the background in the video
24:03 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_05]: But there's also something about it that makes me wonder was she able to control that at that time?
24:09 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Or did that actually only happen later when she shook off some of this stuff?
24:12 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know.
24:14 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't talked about key changes yet, but- No, we haven't.
24:17 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_09]: We've talked about life changes in the key of Shania.
24:20 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_09]: Your Shania twin isn't even her real name?
24:22 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Correct.
24:23 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_09]: You know what it is?
24:26 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Original.
24:26 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like Eileen, right?
24:28 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_09]: Eileen Regina Twain and also other fun fact that she lives in Switzerland now.
24:33 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wow.
24:34 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_05]: She was like, I'm out free of all this bullshit.
24:36 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_09]: Free of all of it.
24:37 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_05]: What is that?
24:38 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_05]: What else is there to stand that point?
24:39 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, are there other things you wanted to hit?
24:41 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just wanted to find a point out.
24:42 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I just like the idea of this song as like...
24:45 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_09]: When we think about gender scheme, the area in social construction about gender and how social just say you aren't born or gender, you perform gender, you do gender.
24:56 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that that's just something that's breaking down now socially, especially in the region we live in, that like performative gender is changing, the idea of gender schemas is changing.
25:09 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_09]: And I do think that at the time that this song came out,
25:13 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_09]: we were like just starting to see a change in the tide of like gender expression in the mainstream.
25:21 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_09]: And I like the idea of like performative female genders not subservient as powerful.
25:27 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_09]: And I relate that to this song, but when I'm hearing about all this other stuff, and make me feel like, yeah, but it's gross.
25:35 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, who's even the name,
25:43 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_05]: J.K. Rowling villain, we're like, they name the character mouth away as a signal that they're bad.
25:49 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
25:50 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
25:50 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Or Narcissa.
25:52 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
25:53 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_05]: She's Narcissa.
25:53 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_05]: So let's name her Narcissa like as if people are named before their personality is about.
25:58 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
25:58 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Think about that with like naming, right?
26:00 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_09]: We're talking with tonight.
26:01 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Twain's name like, I met a couple like Dante's and Damien's in my life.
26:06 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_09]: They've all been like a little bit demonic unregulated.
26:10 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Like,
26:12 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_09]: half the Dante's I know have been hit by bosses.
26:15 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, you know, is that is that happening?
26:18 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_05]: One or does that mean half like seven or 14 Dante?
26:20 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's a small sample.
26:21 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_09]: So I've probably met like four Dante's in my life.
26:26 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_09]: And they're all like a little bit and you're relating this to the Divine Comedy.
26:32 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I just thought of it because I'm like, I go about how what's troubled about when you say Damian, I think it's the home and a demon.
26:39 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't know.
26:40 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_05]: I just think you say that I think inferno.
26:42 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like Dante and Damian from me are kind of connected.
26:46 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Is it because of Dante's inferno?
26:48 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the poet Dante wrote.
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_05]: like darker.
26:51 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's, I don't know how dark it is, but it's a dude wandering through hell, but the only thing is part is that nobody reads Paradiso or whatever.
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_05]: No, not doing so.
26:59 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Paradiso.
27:00 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
27:01 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Come on.
27:02 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
27:02 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a good ending.
27:03 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_05]: No.
27:03 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Just the.
27:04 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_09]: But you know what people do want.
27:06 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_09]: Talk to some of key change.
27:07 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Talks about key change.
27:08 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's get after it.
27:09 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Add break.
27:10 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Probably.
27:12 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_05]: I should not put the outbreak there.
27:30 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so I want to talk about chords and sort of keys.
27:34 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_05]: I say I want to talk about key change.
27:36 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_05]: It has a key change, but really what I want to talk about is the movements between chords.
27:41 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_05]: The key changes are part of it, but it's really kind of incidental to that.
27:45 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to talk about key changes more later in the, almost set semester in the season.
27:51 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_05]: So remember when we did Lionel Richie,
27:55 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
27:55 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_05]: We talked about the circle of fits.
27:58 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
27:58 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_05]: That was cords moving down a fifth.
28:01 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_05]: C to F to B to E or up a fourth depending on which direction you count.
28:07 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_05]: What I want to talk about is the opposite motion when chords move down a fourth.
28:13 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, up a fifth.
28:14 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_05]: So basically the opposite move.
28:16 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_05]: In many styles of music, I would say this is less common because if we look at music theory like when a capital M capital T, classical music theory, this is what we would call a retrogression.
28:28 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, not a progression.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_05]: You've heard chord progression.
28:31 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_05]: chord progression doesn't mean a sequence of chords.
28:35 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I think most people think, oh, a chord progression is like chord one, chord two, chord three.
28:39 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_05]: A chord progression is a sequence of chords that progresses.
28:42 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Totally.
28:43 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_05]: You move from one function like an English sentence has a verb, a subject, an adjective, whatever, in a particular order you move through the correct order.
28:55 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_05]: That's what technically a progression means.
28:57 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_05]: going up a fifth or down a fourth is actually a retrogression.
29:02 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_05]: We're going backwards.
29:03 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_05]: So let me give you an example of why this is true.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_05]: And that doesn't mean it's bad.
29:06 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_05]: It just means that it's not moving in the direction you would normally associate in a key.
29:12 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_05]: So think you're on the tonic chord, just the one.
29:15 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_05]: You might go up a fourth, which is the circle of fifths, down a fifth up a fourth to the four.
29:22 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_05]: So like you're on C, you went up to F. That's great.
29:25 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_05]: But from there, usually, in tonal progression, wouldn't go back down to the one.
29:30 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_05]: That's up a fifth down a fourth.
29:32 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_05]: That's backwards.
29:33 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_05]: One went to four, why would you go back?
29:35 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of in classical music theory, you would keep going, right?
29:38 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
29:39 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_05]: In a different direction.
29:39 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, plenty of times where it will go back, but technically speaking, it's not progress.
29:45 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_05]: It's going backwards, right?
29:46 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Just take that as self-evident from the word.
29:50 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_05]: It's progress, progression needs to keep moving, right?
29:53 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, this isn't good or bad.
29:54 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_09]: It's moving forward or backwards.
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Forward or backwards, right?
29:57 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_09]: It's moving along a spectrum and the spectrum is...
30:00 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_09]: the notes on the staff.
30:02 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they're, and there are certain ones that lead to tonal resolution.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_05]: So like five goes to one.
30:08 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_05]: That's up a fourth.
30:09 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_05]: That is a resolution.
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_05]: One going to five is kind of backwards.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
30:14 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_05]: But it doesn't satisfy a need, right?
30:17 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_05]: When we talked about Hime, I talked about neighbor cords or cords or kind of stepping back and forth.
30:23 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_05]: One back and forth to four would be a good
30:28 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_05]: But we need to keep in mind, and we'll come back to this, they're in entire kinds of music, though, that thrive on this kind of backwards movement, this retrogression.
30:37 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_05]: And it isn't in those kinds of music retrogression.
30:40 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_05]: We only really would ever call it retrogression when you're in a context where progression is the main way, right?
30:45 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't pop music is progression usually the main way.
30:49 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and no, depends on the song.
30:52 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
30:52 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_05]: There are songs that are tonal.
30:54 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
30:55 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_05]: in a key and move with the logic of traditional Western music theory and there are songs that aren't.
31:01 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to look at a little bit of that lineage.
31:04 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
31:04 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_05]: And there are songs that do both.
31:06 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_05]: When I teach my songwriting class, I often talk about, is this a five song or a four song?
31:11 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_05]: And what that means is, is the song, pretty much every song has a one chord in, right?
31:17 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_05]: There's some exceptions, but pretty much everybody goes home.
31:19 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Is the chord right before home?
31:21 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Five?
31:22 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
31:22 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Five one is down a fifth or up a fourth?
31:25 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Or is the core that leads home for, which would be up to fifth down or fourth, the opposite, which wouldn't be as common in like Mozart or whatever, or jazz, but would be common in some kinds of folk music, or common in sound pop songs, right?
31:41 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it a four song or a five song or some songs are both?
31:44 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_05]: So this song, more of a four song, and I wanted to highlight that because Lionel Richie, we really talked about up a fourth resolution, not down a fourth.
31:53 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_05]: So this song is cool in a good example of this because there are different types of use of this motion.
32:02 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's listen to the verse, which is basically the first stuff we hear after that.
32:08 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Here we go.
32:09 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I'll play because it's got all the instruments playing.
32:11 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm an actually play first.
32:18 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll give it all up, I'll lie I ain't gonna have to live to keep the whip I only wanna have a good time
32:30 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so now I'm now I want to go back to talk about lyrics and and feminism.
32:34 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
32:35 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_09]: What so like what so the whole the tonic chord is what she ends on and the note that I'm using my own language here.
32:46 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm like getting it.
32:48 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so the note she sings right before that landed the note she lands on is like lower than that.
32:54 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_09]: So that's
32:55 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_05]: So, this isn't about the notes she sings, this is about the chords.
32:58 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
32:59 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So, that's tonic, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh
33:12 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was struck, by the way, listening to lyrics.
33:14 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_05]: She talks about, don't want to be politically correct.
33:16 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_05]: That's a little, especially in 90's speak, maybe more anti-feminist than feminist.
33:21 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And it says that she's saying like, she's saying like, I am not one of those women that's gonna scare you, Rush Limbaugh fans.
33:30 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna just be a woman.
33:31 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_09]: But also in,
33:34 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_09]: the 90s for a woman.
33:37 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_09]: It was that shoulder pad like that to I'm pausing that tonight, Wayne was ahead of her time in the fact that she owned femininity as a feminist mantra.
33:51 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_09]: Like she said, I can be feminine and a feminist because in 1990, you couldn't.
33:55 --> 34:02 [SPEAKER_09]: In 1990, you're like, reality bites, shoulder pads, don't tell mom the babysitter's dead.
34:02 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Like, that's the vibe of womanhood.
34:04 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Is that power woman?
34:05 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_09]: But, and I think she's saying it's politically correct to be that way, and I'm not.
34:10 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to, like, I want to bake a pie.
34:12 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_09]: I want, like, wear an outfit.
34:14 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_05]: Even though I know, it's interesting because she's actually pushing against
34:18 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_05]: people that are trying to break gender norms.
34:20 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Because the people wearing the shoulder pads, that's not a male imposed standard of beauty.
34:26 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_05]: That is women trying to dodge misogyny, right?
34:30 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Fundamentally.
34:31 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
34:31 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_05]: She's saying, I'm not going to do that.
34:34 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's be in so she's but she's kind of criticizing the feminists.
34:38 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_09]: She's doing it in a quest for power and that's the feminist piece.
34:42 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_09]: I think.
34:43 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_09]: So she's not they're not wearing the shoulder pads to like,
34:47 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Dodge femininity.
34:48 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_09]: They're wearing the shoulder pads to find power and to find clout and to find respect.
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_05]: And doesn't it feel like she's criticizing that?
34:55 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_09]: Because she's saying, we don't need to do that.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_05]: I guess put it this way.
34:58 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_05]: Who's the enemy in the song?
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope it's not the other women.
35:01 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_05]: I hope it's.
35:02 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_09]: No.
35:03 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_09]: I've, you were going to believe in it.
35:05 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like the, okay.
35:07 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, she's saying we shouldn't villainize each other.
35:11 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_09]: as a woman like I can be this type of woman and you can be that type of woman in man we all feel like women no matter what like in this is my version of womanhood.
35:21 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_05]: I like that interpretation a lot more and like feels better.
35:24 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I hope it's correct.
35:25 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_09]: I know it feels better.
35:26 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like
35:27 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_09]: a woman and then in 1997 if that's how no in 1997 it was actually really probably controversial and probably looked at it as really like tried and tart that she was like why she's strutting around like because at that but I like I'm saying I think should I wait in many aspects of a career including the feminist interpretation of this song was ahead of her time.
35:51 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_05]: It's also interesting because she's not hyper-sexualized in the video, but she looks gorgeous and, you know, the coast comes off at one point, but it's not like she's showing a lot of skin or anything like that.
36:03 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_05]: She's not necessarily, I don't know, it's like, it's complicated.
36:07 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, her power is sexy.
36:09 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
36:09 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_09]: It's like power in femininity, which in 1990 wasn't allowed in most in most domains.
36:16 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_05]: But this is not an 1990, right?
36:17 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_05]: This is late 90s.
36:18 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, even still, well, even still.
36:20 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, think of like,
36:22 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_05]: This is after Spice Girls, right?
36:24 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
36:25 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Which is a kind of performative girl power.
36:28 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
36:28 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_09]: And this is like piggybacking on that girl power moment, but she's a woman, right?
36:33 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_09]: She's like, she's identifying more as a woman than less like a girl.
36:37 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
36:38 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a difference.
36:38 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Spice Girls, too, right?
36:40 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I would say.
36:40 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_09]: And then they'll Spice Girls are in their name.
36:41 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_09]: Sure, so.
36:42 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Beats boys are in their 80s now, and they're not.
36:45 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they couldn't change their name.
36:47 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_09]: They can't be like beach gentlemen.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_05]: These dudes.
36:51 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so, all right, peach tooth, beach bros, like the Bobo bros, the white gals, okay, push, okay, here's the verse again, listen, there's you're gonna hear two chords for the B flat 7, where in B flat major is a key, and then it's gonna move to a second chord, the E flat, which is up a fourth, but then it goes back down to B flat, which is the backwards motion down a fourth, listen.
37:18 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_11]: That's our B-flat or one core.
37:24 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Back down.
37:30 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
37:32 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Back down.
37:33 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_05]: So we kind of have nothing happening in the sense that it just rocks back and forth.
37:37 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Like I mentioned in the high in episode, and maybe we'll do a episode about this one day.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_05]: The neighbor accord.
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_05]: It's essentially a neighbor accord.
37:44 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_05]: We have the four that just comes right back down.
37:47 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_05]: And what this comes from is the blues, right?
37:51 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, there are other styles that maybe do this, but the lineage here sort of is the blues.
37:58 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_05]: And let's walk through that for a minute.
38:02 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_05]: And also, this part is signaling bluesiness.
38:05 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_05]: So the... Yeah, it's a show.
38:08 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Like this blue note, she's all like sliding around.
38:09 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_09]: It's literally when you sing it.
38:10 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Especially when I sing it.
38:12 --> 38:13 [UNKNOWN]: Huh.
38:13 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, let's go away back.
38:15 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Like a way, way, way, way.
38:17 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we gotta start with religious music.
38:19 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
38:19 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is the Netherlands box society.
38:22 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Sing a chorale from Johann Sebastian box, 1724 St. John Passion, which is a mess.
38:31 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is, hum.
38:33 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Rockhair, lost dine, leap, angleine?
38:37 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
38:37 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Nice.
38:38 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_05]: And this is a choral piece within a larger piece.
38:46 --> 38:58 [UNKNOWN]: I listen, I listen
39:01 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_05]: That is an example of a chord progression.
39:05 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_05]: It ends with this five going to one with a cool thing we call suspension.
39:11 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_05]: This is what we call an authentic cadence.
39:14 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Caten says the end of a phrase in music.
39:17 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's actually the end of that whole little section of the piece.
39:20 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_05]: It goes five one, which is our motion down a fifth up or fourth, which is the Lionel Richie motion.
39:31 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Now, for contrast, another Baroque piece.
39:35 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_05]: This is George Friedrich Handel.
39:38 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_05]: This is a tabernacle choir singing the Oratorio Massiah, which people here at Christmas all the time.
39:44 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_05]: This is 1741.
39:45 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_05]: This is the very famous Hala Luyo chorus.
39:49 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_05]: which most listeners have probably heard, and this is a different kind of cadence, not an authentic.
39:55 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_09]: And just remind you for our listeners, this was not recorded in 1791.
39:59 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_05]: The tabernacle choir recorded this sometime in the 20th or 21st century.
40:04 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_09]: For clarity.
40:16 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_09]: That is a great authentic cadence.
40:29 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_05]: It is not an authentic cadence.
40:31 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_05]: We have a bunch of little authentic cadence.
40:33 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Hallelujah.
40:34 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Hallelujah.
40:35 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_05]: We're building up a bunch of five ones and then that.
40:39 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_05]: Hallelujah is one, four, one.
40:49 --> 40:53 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much, God bless you.
40:59 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_05]: And often, this would be over the word, amen.
41:06 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_09]: They love that.
41:07 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Amen, cadence.
41:08 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_05]: This is called a plagal cadence.
41:11 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_05]: PL-A-G-A-L. A plagal cadence goes for one.
41:17 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And in traditional tonal music, you would have a 5-1 first, and then you end with a big on-end, or in this case.
41:25 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Hallelujah on four one.
41:28 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_05]: It's allowed because we've already resolved everything.
41:30 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: There's something like a sigh.
41:34 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Amen.
41:35 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_05]: To end your piece that way and it becomes associated with religious music, right?
41:41 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_05]: So fast forward, hundreds or so years.
41:46 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_05]: This religious tradition, singing hymns essentially blends with West African musical styles, which also not incidentally uses a lot of vocal harmony.
41:57 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_05]: So like there's actually very few not to get too far off track.
42:01 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Very few parts of the world that have chord progressions, in terms of folk traditions.
42:06 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
42:07 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_05]: So if you think of
42:09 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_05]: European music, you have chord instruments playing chords moving chords.
42:13 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_05]: If you go to East Asia, China, traditional music tends to be, for example, focused on melody and rhythmic manipulations.
42:21 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_05]: There aren't really chord instruments strumming along.
42:24 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Indian classical music and religious music, kinetic music, that stuff doesn't usually have chords.
42:30 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_05]: There's a drone, but it's about melody and rhythm.
42:33 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_05]: West Africa had vocal harmonies and chord motion in a way that
42:39 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_05]: kind of rare in the world.
42:41 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_05]: So you blend that tradition.
42:43 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about in the slave-based societies of North and South America, right?
42:48 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Specifically, we're looking at the United States, right?
42:51 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_05]: You blend the hymns, Christian hymns, with some of the African-American traditions, like from more direct line from Africa, and we get late-1800s, something we call the spiritual.
43:02 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Can I ask a, pause and ask a question?
43:04 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Was there history of this cords in music before the slave trade in North and South America?
43:12 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_09]: Like did the slaves bring that with them?
43:14 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Cords exist in certain forms of African, especially West African music.
43:21 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
43:21 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Cords also exist for the last thousand years or so in European music.
43:25 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
43:26 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_05]: So if we're looking at who brought Cords to North America, it would be independently European colonists and whichever slaves come from cultures, cause obviously the slave trade would be taking people from all over that coast.
43:41 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_05]: So independently so if we think of like think like what's like the most American instrument you can think of maybe the banjo yeah the banjo is like an african instrument with a western tuning system yeah put on it so like it has frets that tune it like a western guitar but even the guitar more like a sit-tower anyway.
44:01 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the Sittar is a different kind of thing.
44:04 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Think more like a loot, right?
44:07 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_05]: So if you think of like the loot or the oed, which is an Arabic instrument, like there's all just different versions of the same instrument across many cultures.
44:15 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
44:16 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_05]: And the banjo is kind of like an American hybrid of West African and European instrumental creations, right?
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_05]: And so,
44:26 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_05]: We kind of have these chord-based cultures interacting in this space, and we see essentially the history of Americans specifically North American, but also Caribbean and South American music is the history of intermingling of European musical traditions with African-based musical traditions.
44:45 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_05]: to a lesser or greater extent, depending on a location in indigenous traditions.
44:50 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_05]: So like jazz is like certain aspects of the blues, which grows from black culture mixed with the instruments of European music, right?
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_05]: The piano, the trumpets, stuff like that.
45:02 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, in South America, we have the blending, not only of...
45:05 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_05]: the interactions that you would expect in a colonial slave society, but also there's more indigenous elements.
45:10 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
45:11 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_05]: So like you've got the Indian culture influencing music and Peru and stuff, whereas North America, at least North America in the United States, the elimination of indigenous culture was more extreme.
45:24 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_05]: And so there are Native American influences in American music, but they are not as pronounced as they would be, for example, in Caribbean music or certain South American.
45:34 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_09]: You know what?
45:35 --> 45:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately.
45:36 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_09]: I know this is not news to you, but music history is really cool, and you can really trace like cultural transmission through music.
45:43 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_09]: Did you ever think about that?
45:45 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Of course.
45:46 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, of course.
45:47 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, and it's all.
45:48 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, like an aha moment over here.
45:50 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_05]: I think everything else, like you do.
45:51 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_08]: To everything.
45:52 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_05]: You're the, if I'm the polysci major who then went on to get a, get higher degrees in music, you were the art major who went on to get higher degrees in psyched, right?
46:01 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_05]: And I still remember of all my classes, probably the most I remember from high school was my high school art history class, right?
46:10 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_05]: it took AP art history.
46:11 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, God.
46:12 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_05]: Why?
46:12 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_05]: I did not go on and do a bunch of art history.
46:14 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_09]: You did the AP test get some college credits for that?
46:17 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_05]: It didn't matter, but I did get calls.
46:19 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's way to go.
46:20 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to rant on AP tests in other channels.
46:22 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_08]: It seems like a racket.
46:23 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_05]: 100%.
46:23 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
46:25 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Let's rant about that in another time.
46:26 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's the higher end.
46:27 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
46:28 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God.
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_05]: So the thing is though, why do I remember so much about it?
46:32 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Because when I was learning music history, I'm like, oh, it's Baroque again.
46:36 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
46:36 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's
46:38 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's expressionism, again, and I can recognize the stylistic traits of musical postmodernism in pop art, Andy Warhol, right?
46:50 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Like they are related, minimalist music and minimalist visual art are related fields, and so you get kind of a holistic view of human about it, right?
46:59 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Like a cultural moment, and like, yeah, it's almost like things aren't created in a vacuum.
47:03 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Almost.
47:04 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_05]: So.
47:05 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, so I'm so sorry.
47:07 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for no, no, no, it's really cool to like learn.
47:10 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_09]: So sorry.
47:11 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_05]: We get the African American spiritual which I don't feel comfortable saying it, but I'm going to say it.
47:15 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to hear the term Negro spiritual even today.
47:18 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
47:19 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not the other end word, but still feels yeah.
47:23 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't love that word.
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's too close.
47:26 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so let's listen to one of these again.
47:28 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is the blending of musical and aesthetic sensibilities of slave society, getting a lot of influence from various cultures within West Africa with European style hymns.
47:41 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_05]: And we want to latch on to that four one cadence that we heard, the play go cadence in the handle.
47:48 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_05]: This is, nobody knows the trouble I've seen by the Fisk Jubilee singers, which is a group that still exists.
47:55 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_09]: What?
47:56 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a Fisk University.
47:58 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, cool.
47:59 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Like they're Gully Club or whatever, and this song was written in mid-19th century.
48:04 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_05]: This was recorded in the 20s or the 30s.
48:07 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't figure out exactly because this comes from like a compilation of a lot of
48:13 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
48:36 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't even, I spent so many years, I don't know.
48:38 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_09]: So we need to, they're remaking it.
48:40 --> 48:42 [SPEAKER_05]: They have spirituals in space.
48:42 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the song, I think, like, the princess was, like, imprisoned, and she was, like, saying the song.
48:47 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, really?
48:48 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_09]: And they were, like, shocked that she had such, like, a baritone voice.
48:51 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_05]: She could do the super low bass, I think.
48:54 --> 48:55 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
48:55 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knows, but Jesus.
49:02 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You're sorry.
49:02 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knows.
49:06 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't rubla see, she's a bitch.
49:10 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_05]: So, we have the plagal cadence, the on-man cadence following in spirituals.
49:17 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay?
49:19 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Move a little bit further in history, maybe, though, kind of the same time, and go secular, and we get the blues.
49:26 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_05]: And we have the one, four, going back, four, going back to one.
49:29 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_05]: But is like the harmonic meat of the blues.
49:36 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Will it treat the night, strike the ladder, or the night?
49:46 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Will it treat the night, pack the ladder, or the night?
49:54 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_06]: And I come here soon, I walk, can't stand the above.
49:59 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_05]: So one, four, and then one.
50:02 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_05]: And then it does go to five, which is our like authentic.
50:05 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_05]: But instead of going five, one, it goes five, four, one.
50:09 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And that is the skeleton that will eventually be a form.
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
50:13 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_05]: 12 bar blues.
50:13 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_05]: 12 bar blues is a form and also a stock chord progression that gets used in a lot of blues, including moving forward, rock and roll.
50:24 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_09]: Nice.
50:24 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is 1958, good golly Miss Molly, little Richard.
50:29 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_05]: We have the blues progression, including our fours going back to one.
50:34 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Essentially, our on-man in secular, you know, amorous music.
50:41 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_05]: This is rock and roll.
50:42 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a bunch of euphemistic stuff about sex very often.
50:59 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_05]: So the movement of four going to one predominates, the falling fourth is much more important to the blues than in rock and roll by extension than five going to one, which is motion down a fifth, which is sort of the tonal way to be technically speaking a progression.
51:21 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
51:22 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_05]: So that is the lineage that gets us all the way to this, and it's very bluesy.
51:27 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's even doing what we call blue notes, which are the flat kind of out of key.
51:47 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we talked about that and she's sliding in and she sounds almost as good as me, almost.
51:55 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And this probably predates auto tunes, so she didn't, you know.
51:58 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_09]: No, she's saying it.
51:59 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_05]: She doesn't need it.
52:00 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Please.
52:01 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_05]: OK. You with me?
52:03 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, I was a long time ago with you, but I like understand how much history is packed into the song.
52:11 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
52:12 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_09]: and the lineage of this plagal cadence and the difference between plagal cadence and authentic cadence.
52:19 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like understanding it.
52:20 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm hearing it more than I'm able to verbalize it, which I think is something.
52:44 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_05]: So I mentioned that part of why I chose this song and what's so cool about it is.
52:49 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_05]: It gives us different ways of seeing the resolution of down a fourth.
52:54 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is sort of the blues way.
52:57 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_05]: We have the rocking back and forth between one and four that follows this long tradition of blues.
53:02 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not the only thing that happens in this song.
53:06 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_05]: So they use this down a four move in other ways that are sort of unrelated to that.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_05]: So let's listen to what happens next.
53:15 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_05]: This is the pre-chorus.
53:16 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_13]: Have a good time The best thing about a weird old man Is the forget to have a baby
53:27 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_05]: or what's the purpose of a pre-chorus?
53:29 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_09]: To get us pumped for the chorus.
53:32 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you can feel there's an energy build up there.
53:35 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_05]: So we have a new chord, A flat, which is flat seven in the key.
53:39 --> 53:40 [SPEAKER_09]: Flat seven.
53:40 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Going up back to the B flat, but that we're in the key B flat, but this second chord pre-chorus is build tension.
53:48 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_05]: This, even though it's just the one chord, it does not sound done.
53:52 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_13]: Listen again.
53:56 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_13]: We're about to land somewhere else and where do we land?
54:08 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_13]: F
54:22 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_09]: And this feels more poppy than bluesy because it's playing with this.
54:29 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_05]: It goes down a fourth, the motion is exactly the same, but it feels, it doesn't feel like a bluesy move.
54:38 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_05]: It goes to the, which is the five-court in the old key, but it's not being used as a five-court.
54:42 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_05]: It's the new one.
54:43 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_05]: We go to the key of F by falling from the B-flat down a four B, A, G, F is down four notes.
54:53 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a chord we haven't heard before, and usually that F is 10, so that wants to bring us back to one.
54:58 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_05]: But now it's just the new one, right?
55:01 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And it does feel more poppy.
55:03 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_05]: It feels brighter.
55:04 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_05]: It feels like a different use of the same move, not the dark kind of heavy weight, emotionality of the blues.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_05]: but something a little poppy.
55:14 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_05]: And here's another example of a key change that is happening by kind of randomly falling down a fourth.
55:21 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_05]: This is 1982, Dexie's Midnight Runners, Come On Eyeline, C Major, and then we get a G chord which falls down a fourth to our new key, D. So we go from the key of C up a step to D through this falling fourth move, take a listen.
55:52 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I swear well, baby, I'm the small one, too.
55:57 --> 55:58 [SPEAKER_09]: No, I hate that song.
55:59 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_09]: You really?
55:59 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_09]: Why?
56:01 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_09]: Because it was on the soundtrack for the music shop I worked out.
56:03 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Again, really ruined a lot of great music.
56:05 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Over, over, over, over.
56:06 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_09]: I've heard it.
56:07 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_09]: I do love the name Dexter's Ming Nightrunners.
56:10 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_09]: It's one of my favorite band names that I do know what it refers to.
56:13 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
56:13 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't.
56:14 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_09]: OK, so it refers to Dexter Dream, which is like a speed drug, like an over-the-kind of speed diet pill that, like, makes you run all night.
56:22 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_09]: Makes you run all night.
56:23 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
56:23 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Dexter's been there.
56:24 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_09]: It's kind of cool.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_05]: Good for them.
56:26 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Drugs to be a little okay.
56:28 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, they're fine.
56:29 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they're fine.
56:30 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_05]: So something about it and this relates to this idea of a neighbor chord.
56:34 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Part of that on-ended cadence that makes it so satisfying is the notes moving down.
56:39 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I mentioned earlier like a sigh.
56:41 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Da-da-da-da-da.
56:42 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_05]: And so when you get this lean down a fourth to the new key,
56:47 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_05]: The B-flat chord resolves to the F because the B-flat falls to an A and the D falls to a C. And we get this neighbor tone motion is what we call it.
56:57 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_13]: That's just sort of satisfying like a sigh.
57:11 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And then we're in the chorus.
57:13 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_05]: And like you've already called out, it's very pop songy.
57:17 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
57:17 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_05]: We get a chord progression one, six, four, one, which is like a radio pop progression you would hear in 2026 very much.
57:27 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_05]: We go F, D minor, B flat, back to F.
57:32 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, we have that quick little turn around there.
57:49 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_05]: B-flat goes back to F. And that's much less bluesy, less sort of spiritual sounding.
57:55 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And then the second half, we're about to go back to the other key.
57:59 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_05]: How do we get there?
58:01 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, getting in the option, feeling a traction Oh, my head, do what I did Oh, I wanna be free and feel the word I'll be you Man, I feel like a woman
58:21 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_05]: We add one more chord, G minor, which is two in the key of F, and it just goes back to B flat.
58:27 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
58:27 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to come back to this in a later episode this season.
58:32 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
58:32 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_05]: G minor is two in the key of F. Okay.
58:34 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_05]: And six in the key of B flat.
58:36 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_09]: What?
58:37 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_05]: So it exists in bigusly in both keys, as what we call a pivot chord.
58:42 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
58:42 --> 58:43 [SPEAKER_05]: But it just sort of ends, right?
58:43 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_05]: It's just sort of like, if you hear that G minor, it just sort of happens and then stops.
58:47 --> 58:48 [SPEAKER_12]: No, that's it.
58:48 --> 58:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, man, I feel like no one.
58:53 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_05]: So there's no, there's no like progression that gets us there.
58:56 --> 59:00 [SPEAKER_05]: It's just, this chord is gonna be a U.S. just go back, right?
59:01 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_09]: get out of here.
59:02 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
59:02 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_09]: I understand it.
59:06 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_09]: Like I said, I hear it more than I can verbalize it.
59:08 --> 59:10 [SPEAKER_09]: So I can hear what you're describing.
59:10 --> 59:20 [SPEAKER_09]: And I really like how it puts this song like in the lineage, you know, when you think about this chord progression,
59:20 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_09]: and this plagal cadence over music history.
59:24 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm really, I'm like finding myself really interested in that.
59:28 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm the same way I'm interested in how the song fits and like a feminist history from a musical perspective whoever's responsible for these choices seems pretty self-aware of it because if we listen to one more,
59:41 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_05]: version of this four to one move.
59:43 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_05]: They kind of go even further.
59:45 --> 59:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Remember we had that A flat chord, which was flat seven.
59:48 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Flat seven is a fourth above E flat, which is the four.
59:53 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_05]: So we have B flat, which is one.
59:55 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_05]: E flat, which is four.
59:57 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_05]: and then four has a four, which is a flat, we could describe it as four of four going to four resolving to one.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_05]: So it's just kind of a cycle of falling for us.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_05]: We hear it twice.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:11 [SPEAKER_05]: We hear it once in the solo and then later in the outro, I'll play both.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_13]: And then later in the outro, we get the same four of four thing.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_05]: And then later in the outro, we get the same four of four things.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_13]: And then later in the outro, we get the same four of four things.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_13]: And then later in the outro, we get the same four of four things.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_05]: This is a super common move in rock.
01:00:57 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like sorta bluesy, but a little off that very bright, not heavy.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Sweet Child of Mine, Guns Roses, of course, in 1887.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_05]: That second chord is out of key.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_05]: It's flat seven.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_05]: It's the four of the four chord and pulls down.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_05]: And then once you get to four, you pull down again to one.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's very satisfying and very much retrogressive.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:44 [SPEAKER_05]: It is not tonal in the classical sense.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's retrogressive because of these other influences on contemporary pop music and of thesis.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Thoughts.
01:01:52 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_09]: I support your thesis, just like I'm glad that women are supported to be whatever version of themselves they want to be.
01:01:59 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_09]: the end.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_05]: And that is a very, yeah, it's a very safe, safe, safe.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Just like, because who cares?
01:02:05 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_09]: Like who cares?
01:02:06 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm so sick.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_09]: This is gonna be ranting.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm so sick of women being pitted against each other.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_09]: Like you know, I can't, I can't be shy.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_09]: It has to be the woman, Christina Applegate, and don't tell mom and the babysitter's dad.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_09]: Like it has to be like the shoulder pad woman.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_09]: Like that's the only way to exist.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_09]: Like we can all exist to what we want.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_09]: Just mind your business.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_09]: Do whatever you want to do.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Man, I feel like if I'm in this rant.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm still, I'm still like wrapped up in like being worried that actually this is being written to not be and that Shania has made it that has made it a good thing.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Your fans have made it that I think her fans have like, but like in the her fans, her the country music fans in 1999, where maybe how many wrong lessons were taken from the song?
01:02:50 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_05]: I guess that's what I'm worried about.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I can, I can understand that concern and seeing it through that lens makes me sad.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_09]: So I choose not to.
01:02:57 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:02:58 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's 2026.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_05]: We can look through 2026.
01:03:00 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_05]: What?
01:03:00 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:02 [SPEAKER_09]: Like good for you, should I?
01:03:02 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_09]: Break up with a lot of jerk.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:05 [SPEAKER_09]: Mary is best for her.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Mary, no.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:07 [SPEAKER_05]: Mary, you're best friends.
01:03:08 --> 01:03:08 [SPEAKER_05]: X husband.
01:03:08 --> 01:03:09 [SPEAKER_05]: And they can get married.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:11 [SPEAKER_05]: And then maybe are they all friends now?
01:03:11 --> 01:03:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And they like go all the way together?
01:03:13 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_09]: They like let's live in the world that they like made this swap.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:17 [SPEAKER_09]: And everyone's great.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:19 [SPEAKER_09]: They're like living in Switzerland.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:21 [SPEAKER_09]: She's like all swept up in eastern religion.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:23 [SPEAKER_09]: She's like right not a biographies.
01:03:23 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_09]: Making music.
01:03:24 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_09]: Looking hot.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_09]: She's 60 years old.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:28 [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, she's awesome.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, who cares?
01:03:51 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the music is part of the lore hounds network.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.