What happens when you have to replace an iconic voice? This week we rock out to Linkin Park’s 2003 hit “Numb.” Mark compares live performances of the band’s big hits across two very different lead vocalists and what changes the band had to make to keep their sound. Meanwhile, Nichole wonders whether these changes parallel identity development as a person goes from an adolescent to an adult. Join us for a packed episode!
Other music heard in this episode: Dead Sara - “Weatherman”, Soundgarden - “The Day I Tried to Live”, Big Brother and The Holding Company - “Piece of My Heart”, Tool - “Forty-Six & 2”, AC/DC - “Highway to Hell”, Johnny Cash and June Carter - “Jackson”, The Eagles - “Take it to the Limit”, Hanson - “MMMBop”, Linkin Park - “Breaking the Habit”, Linkin Park - “What I’ve Done”, Linkin Park - “New Divide”, Linkin Park - “In the End”, Linkin Park - “Shadow of the Day”, Dead Sara - “Uninspired”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_04]: They're like exactly our age.
00:03 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, pretty darn close.
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
00:05 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_04]: That's wild.
00:06 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_03]: They were a kid band when we were kids.
00:07 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we were maybe tailors, the middle kids age, or tiny bit older than him.
00:12 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
00:12 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the brother was like a high schooler.
00:15 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
00:16 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
00:16 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like 17 or something.
00:29 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I'm Nicole, and I'm Mark.
00:31 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_01]: This is never mind the music.
00:33 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_01]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:35 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about our freshman year of college course schedule, and whether my specifically, but very much yours I'm interested too, whether it was pro success, whether your course schedule, literally the schedule of classes you took and when they were, was setting you up for having a successful first year of college.
00:58 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_04]: and then we're going to talk about music later because notably music played a very small role in my first year of college and that's a political science major it's very well it's very common that people don't get classes in their major their first semester of college which is unfortunate I just had a different major yeah I mean I had a studio art major so very different we know everyone knows
01:19 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Did it set me up for success?
01:21 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so because I was still stuck in the paradigm that like school starts at eight in the morning and it's a two in the afternoon and you have to do back to back.
01:28 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I hadn't like self-actualized yet the idea that I could I work better at night like I could just do night classes.
01:35 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Take a nine p.m. class.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, interesting.
01:38 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So I tried to actually find out my actual course schedule including times for my freshman year of college.
01:45 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_03]: However, I was the actual PDF of the course schedule online is only available back through the mid 2000.
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So we just missed it.
01:54 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would have to go and I didn't think we had the budget fly to the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area, visit the actual library where they have a printed out copy to get the actual schedule.
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So what I do have to
02:06 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_03]: is my college transcript.
02:08 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So I know which classes I took.
02:10 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I just don't know what time they Okay, so we're gonna have to kind of figure things out here because I I'm also not 100% sure which semester my anecdote applies to so let me tell you what my class schedule was okay my course listing those first two semesters so fall political science major not music yet this would happen by the end of my second semester.
02:29 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_03]: 13 total credits, Astro 10, General Astronomy, also known as Rocks for Jocks or Stars for Stowners.
02:35 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_03]: History 5, Modern Europe, Polyside 2, Intro 2, Comparative Politics, Polyside 179, Caloquium on Political Science, Spring, Next semester, 16 credits, History 7B, the United States, Integrated Biology 108,
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Heliantology.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's so cool.
02:53 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Rederick R1B, I don't know what the R is all about.
02:56 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Craft of writing, polysty 108A, politics, ethics, and leadership, and Ta-da, music, 410, vocal technique.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_03]: That was the first college music class I took.
03:06 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It was a great time of 400-level music.
03:08 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_03]: It was just at my college, the numbering didn't really correspond to that.
03:13 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_03]: That would be like your random stuff.
03:15 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_03]: They, most of the classes were under 100 in terms of their number at that school.
03:20 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_03]: It's possible this applies to fall because I have memories of Astro 10 being a part of this equation.
03:27 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think based on the release of the music we're going to talk about today, spring might be the more likely culprit.
03:36 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
03:36 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure you're wondering why I brought all this up.
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
03:40 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Very much.
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about whether the schedule was pro success.
03:43 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think we're talking spring freshman year of college, second semester, history, integrative biology, rhetoric, polysai, and music.
03:52 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I somehow ended up with a schedule that had nine or no, I think eight AM classes on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
03:59 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And then two or three PM start time on Tuesday Thursday.
04:04 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And so what this led to was the most hostile to well-being sleep schedule because basically I would be really tired waking up at seven or whatever to or realistically I wasn't a morning person at point seven forty five to run to my class at eight or whatever on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and then I'd stay up really late.
04:24 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:24 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And so the next day
04:26 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_03]: would wake up at like noon and then have to go to bed early enough to wake up at seven thirty or whatever the next morning.
04:33 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it created this terrible cycle and I'd set up an alarm.
04:37 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_03]: But I was on it.
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I was in a literal triple.
04:40 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_03]: One room with three dudes.
04:42 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the dorms.
04:43 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And I've had to put my alarm across the room.
04:46 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't have it by the bed because I would climb down from the bunk bed.
04:50 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_03]: and turn it off because otherwise I would just hit the snooze and go right to bed and this must have been very very annoying to my two roommates.
04:58 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're nice guys, but they were trying to just like live their lives and had sort of let myself go on these Tuesdays and Thursdays and sleep super late, which is something I can't even fathom doing anymore, my
05:10 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And that also must have annoyed them because my roommates are trying to like do their school work or get ready or whatever and there's this dude snoozing And there's this sense that maybe I shouldn't be too loud because this dude is sleeping still at 1145 and on multiple occasions I wouldn't wake up to an alarm on those days because I'm so late and I would wake up to this multiple occasions
05:33 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_05]: I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.
05:42 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was my first introduction to Lincoln Park's record hybrid theory.
05:47 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And the falsetto is very intentional.
05:50 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He was not screaming.
05:51 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_03]: He was falsetto singing along with his headphones to this song very specifically, which
05:57 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_03]: was released as a single actually like bleed American the record by Jimmy World on 9 11, but the album came out the end of my freshman year fall semester so it was that spring semester I think my roommate was doing a lot of listening passive aggressively trying to wake my ass up by fall
06:18 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, Mark.
06:19 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, it's my turn.
06:20 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Which is, by the way, not the song we're talking about today, but it is a song that will come up here.
06:24 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_04]: The first one you're recounting the story of you being an awful roommate, which I find so hard to believe.
06:28 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure you're a joy to live with.
06:30 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I have changed.
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
06:32 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I thought this was like your alarm sound, which is a really f-up lyric to wake up to every day.
06:40 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, that can't be good for your to- Not as per a song, that's the trick.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_04]: You thought it, no, what do you why even get out of it?
06:46 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_04]: You want to go deeper into that.
06:47 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_03]: This was my roommate trying to get me out of bed, probably.
06:50 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Which I'll say is like a really like passive-aggressive line to sing.
06:55 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I think he was just vibing on the song and he just loved the song.
06:57 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_03]: He knew it was going to be a hit.
06:58 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_03]: He was listening to Lincoln Park, and sitting across the room, doing school work, probably singing, while I should have been waking up.
07:06 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was the pleasant sounds of a shaky falsetto singing, Chester Bennington's part was my first introduction to this band.
07:14 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So.
07:15 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how well you know Lincoln Park, they came up a little bit when we were talking about incubus and I was talking about my distaste for new metal, but that there were certain bands orbiting new metal that I really liked, Incubus being one of them.
07:27 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mentioned Lincoln Park is sort of the pop side of new metal and they've actually sort of stood the test of time, right?
07:34 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And I did like that band when they were coming up, roommate's aside.
07:39 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_03]: We also talked about them a bit on our first ever mail bag, and I'll explain why in a little bit.
07:45 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But what are your thoughts on Lincoln Park as a band?
07:48 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_04]: It should not be a surprise to our listeners that I was not into Lincoln Park as a band.
07:54 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And in fact, when I think of Lincoln Park in my head, all I see is like an icon or the scheme that I've developed of this a fan of Lincoln Park, and I don't like them.
08:06 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I see like the wall it changed the big pants.
08:10 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like new metal vibe and are you seeing like what's stock 99 vibes?
08:13 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they did not play with something like that.
08:15 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, I'm sure they didn't, but it is like that type.
08:19 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the new the like.
08:21 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Fred Durst, you know, live this kid kind of porn, but it kind of a dick.
08:26 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I like it so much cooler than that though.
08:29 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, but I like it nicer guys.
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm sure that they're lovely.
08:33 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Room, it lovely guys.
08:34 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Great room.
08:35 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm sure.
08:36 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Great in a college dorm.
08:37 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's just this icon of this yes, like Woodstock 99, I'm thinking and maybe this is a con maybe I'm conflating, but you know the kids that used to have mo hawks and they would put like glue in the mo hawks to get them to like stand up really high like I feel like.
08:55 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about Zach, the kid who knew Metallica way earlier than everybody else in a Metallica episode.
09:00 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a guy.
09:01 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a guy.
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a guy.
09:03 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like that vibe.
09:05 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very off-putting to me, but I understand that it was just this idea of like...
09:10 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_04]: we're attaching identity to music and that's what I plan to talk about today is how we can lean into stereotypes.
09:17 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Even if we don't like the music, we can be like posers and attached to the identity in the lifestyle around it.
09:23 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
09:23 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So, I still should come across that's much more punk.
09:26 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_03]: You're metal to me is more because it was so mainstream popular at that point.
09:31 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't underground really by the time.
09:33 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I still remember if anybody, the first new metal I ever heard was that song, Shoots and Ladders, the sort of nursery rhyme sung by Corn.
09:40 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_03]: It was like their first single.
09:52 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Few years before they got popular, it was kind of like an alternative radio.
09:57 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It was Corn doing
10:01 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_03]: ring around and there it felt a little transgressive, but by the end of the 90s it was very safe way to be transgressive.
10:10 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So I will say though.
10:12 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to shout out the city of Agura Hills, California, because this band comes from Agura Hills, California, just like a very close family member of mine, so I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge and appreciate some of the luminaries of our era that also come from Agura Hills, California, which is, you know, have you heard of the valley?
10:33 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_03]: in LA.
10:34 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so far into the valley that it's a different valley.
10:38 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a different valley.
10:40 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's a past the San Fernando Valley.
10:42 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the Conejo valley.
10:43 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like so far, but it's still LA burbs.
10:46 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Doja Cat was there for a few years.
10:47 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Aaron Brockovich.
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like the real one.
10:51 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's really Robert.
10:53 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's juicits.
10:54 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's not like Aaron Brockovich.
10:57 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_04]: She's just like
11:00 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was there.
11:01 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course in water.
11:02 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I thought it was here.
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, shit.
11:04 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_03]: What if Aaron Brockovitch was from every state that anybody had had bad water?
11:09 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, that's hilarious.
11:10 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I think it was like around here.
11:12 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it was Boomeran.
11:14 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So ground water contamination and hinkly caliphone.
11:17 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, never mind.
11:17 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Find my thinking of that.
11:19 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_03]: She is all things to all people.
11:21 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_03]: She seems local to you too.
11:22 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Guillermo del Toro live there for a few years love him shout out to Frankenstein yet from in his lab room too.
11:29 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I pan's labyrinth is probably top five movies.
11:32 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So good claim at use
11:35 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_03]: The linebacker, Harry Nielsen, you know, one is the loneliest, no, he had a later in life, Heather Graham, Kirk and Candace Cameron.
11:45 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So much so that this person who's very close to me remembers being young and being at a birthday party for someone who was older and literally Candace Cameron, which is to say DJ from Full House came to the birthday party, and this person whose my age was freaking out and ran away, basically.
12:04 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I am into it.
12:06 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I also think that we just need to on a Kirk Cameron for how he's such a cultural icon.
12:11 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I had such a crush on him growing up.
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Not so much now.
12:14 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what he wants.
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_04]: No, he's definitely like married.
12:17 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_04]: He's like 12 kids.
12:18 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_04]: He's like very religious.
12:19 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
12:20 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think the crush would make him uncomfortable.
12:23 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
12:23 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I think he would prefer you not watch the, what are those end of times movies he was in?
12:28 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_04]: The like, but like that's a lot.
12:30 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_03]: The rancher movies.
12:31 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot.
12:32 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It was like a little bit
12:33 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate religion, I appreciate spirituality, everyone has a right obviously.
12:39 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Get an Adam Nicole's release.
12:41 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_04]: No, but like I, that's a bridge too far for me.
12:44 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so speaking of a bridge too far, let's bring it back to new metal.
12:48 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
12:48 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So we are talking about Lincoln Park, everybody.
12:50 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_03]: We are talking about their tune, numb.
12:55 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm so mad I can't feel you there Because I'm so tired so much more But I'm where I become in this I want you to It's been more like me
13:12 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Listeners, you did not get the experience I just had where I accidentally had Nicole's headphones turned up way too loud and it just was so, oh, like, I don't like a park didn't see her face because you were not happy with that.
13:25 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_03]: That looked like it hurt.
13:26 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry about that.
13:26 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_04]: No, wasn't even that loud.
13:27 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_04]: If you were playing like a Johnny Mitchell, it wouldn't have even bothered me.
13:32 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is louder music than that.
13:33 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like louder music that hits consistently.
13:36 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it hits my ear in a way that is not pleasant to me.
13:39 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, we'll get into it, maybe.
13:41 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is one of their biggest hits.
13:42 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_03]: This is from 2003's album, Meteora, hit number 11.
13:47 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Their biggest hit actually is in the end, you know?
13:50 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I tried so hard.
13:51 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That I falsettoed earlier, but I wanted to do this song because this song features more singing.
13:57 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas the main thrust of in the end is, Mike Chinotas Rapps.
14:02 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's reason why,
14:04 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about the singing, and I will shout out that the germ of the idea of me doing an episode on Lincoln Park actually was from our first mailbag, which I think it was Rocky Zim, who's a very frequent presence on the Lorhounds and thus also our discord, asked us about their new album from zero.
14:25 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:25 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I listened to the record.
14:27 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked a little bit about it on that mailbag, but also for reasons we'll get into this triggered an idea of that.
14:33 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we need to do a full episode about the park.
14:37 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_04]: The park?
14:39 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_03]: What if they were called Lincoln Hills and it was in the Guerrilla Hills reference?
14:41 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
14:42 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, shoot, this is a bummer.
14:46 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, how do I segue into something that's a real bummer?
14:50 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_04]: You can just say,
14:51 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Should we run an ad right now?
14:52 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's too early in the episode.
14:53 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
15:16 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gosh.
15:18 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And Chester, somebody openly discussed mental health struggles.
15:21 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_03]: He was open about being a victim of childhood sexual abuse, and he struggled through a lot of his adult life with addiction.
15:28 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I never knew that.
15:29 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of their songs, you know, whether it's in the end, a lot of them have a kind of nihilistic, like, sad, upset, not finding your place in the world vibe.
15:39 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And this song, NUMM,
15:40 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_03]: seems to be about not meeting people's expectations and sort of societal and social pressure.
15:45 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_03]: In the video, if you watched it, there's like this outcast girl kind of, it like a high school-aged girl, I think, and they're playing in a church.
15:52 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's a lot of it is very heavy, even though a lot of it's very poppy, and sometimes even beautiful.
15:58 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_03]: but the sort of story of what I want to talk about begins with the unfortunate tragic death of one of the two lead vocalists of this band and one of their main songwriters.
16:10 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_04]: So now I feel like kind of a dick for thinking like, oh, this is so performative.
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wow.
16:16 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_04]: It's so like how gloomy could you be living California, but I guess like it affects everybody, right?
16:22 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Link.
16:22 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not necessarily directly germane to Lincoln Park, but a lot of the Gen XC, inksed music that people associate with, especially the 80s and also the early 90s, which this is not.
16:34 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say this is more millennial era stuff.
16:37 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of that stuff came from the comfortable suburbs of Los Angeles.
16:41 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you think of hardcore punk and things like that, there was a different kind of disillusionment.
16:46 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't 70s punk where we're fighting against the Margaret Fatcher regime in London or whatever.
16:53 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And like actual poverty, it was more emotional desolation, right?
16:58 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Being a latch key kid and mom and dad don't love each other anymore.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in a broken home.
17:02 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to start a punk band when I'm 15 years old.
17:05 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And
17:05 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_03]: not to say the Lincoln Park is the same of that, but maybe this movement of new metal is performative, but also there might be real pathos and wait even to a comfortable suburban life 50 minutes away from downtown Los Angeles.
17:19 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what I hope to talk about in this episode is this where's the line there between like exploiting someone else's mental illness to like feed into your own teenage angst.
17:29 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_04]: versus like honoring it for like a true right of passage, a true like lived experience of someone.
17:35 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And how much of the persona that people identified with Lincoln Park was just exploiting someone's mental illness and someone's tragedy to paint themselves as like an outlier in their adolescent development moment.
17:49 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So several of our recent episodes we've kind of had you go first in a sense because it what I'm talking about is so unrelated, but I feel like some of the aspects of what I'm talking about because it involves personnel changes and things might actually inform something you want to talk about.
18:06 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like maybe we should go music first.
18:09 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So this album comes out in 2020
18:13 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_03]: an interestingly zero with an X of course was the original name of the band before they were Lincoln Park Lincoln spelled weird to l i and k i m so yeah maybe they just you know that California public school education sorry agura high school you let in people down okay after Chester Bennington passes they essentially are defunct as a band for several years but they come
18:44 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And this was part of, I think, Rocky Zimbum is discord saying, what do you think about the new Lincoln Park record with this new vocalist?
18:51 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And her name is Emily Armstrong.
18:53 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's best known as the guitarist and vocalist of a band called Dead Sarah.
18:58 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_08]: This is their tune from 2012, Weatherman.
19:07 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_08]: I tell you, no one else, I'm the one I'm in She gave up all the kids
19:21 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And remember this conversation because there was talk about like just the female vocalist service like a reinvention of Lincoln Park and enough that we can link on or the previous singer and still move forward with like new music and not have to replace him.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like
19:37 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not just enough of a sidestep kind of.
19:40 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
19:41 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And remember that being my part of the musical implications of that is what I want to talk about.
19:45 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And I wonder if it resonates also on some of the things you're talking about.
19:47 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_03]: But that song, I didn't know, Dead Sarah, but that song rocks.
19:50 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Dead Sarah is really great.
19:52 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I know of them.
19:53 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I've heard of them before.
19:54 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And that song is great for sure.
19:56 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I think the female tone like softness said a little bit for me, even though she doesn't have like a song.
20:00 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing soft about that.
20:01 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Then she's screaming more screaming than Chester Benich.
20:04 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: They're short of.
20:04 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So, before we get into the meat here, I did want to put something out there and then kind of walk away from it.
20:13 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Not to try to drop a bomb, but I don't want people to think that we're not talking about something that might be first on their mind.
20:18 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_03]: If they're following the ZIGIC stuff a little more closely than we are.
20:21 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Because fundamentally, I don't want to talk about that from zero album again.
20:24 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I shared a few thoughts on our last mailbag.
20:26 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed it.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_03]: But...
20:28 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Before she joined Lincoln Park, there was some controversy that has a few parts and I just kind of want to outline it and leave it there and we don't have to talk much about it unless you want to.
20:36 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So she was raised Scientologist and I think still is which in a lot of ways for a lot of people is controversial and I don't really want to get into how and why that would be true.
21:00 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so he was accused of and convicted of raping to women and he's serving 30 years in prison right now.
21:07 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_03]: He was also a Scientologist.
21:08 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So what came out is essentially, do you know the name, Cedric Bixler Zavala by any chance?
21:14 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard of the band Mars Volta or at the drive-in?
21:17 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I've actually seen Marsville to live several times.
21:20 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_03]: That's got to be a trip.
21:21 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they in some life?
21:23 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Because that man is crazy.
21:24 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Just like crazy.
21:25 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Crocky, punky, emo, like, rock, they're really cool.
21:29 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I saw them at this venue in, I hear from the Boston area.
21:32 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It's called the Orphium.
21:33 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a really old venue.
21:35 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_04]: And we had like, it's like there's a balcony.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So we had balcony seats.
21:40 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And because it's such an old rickety venue and downtown Boston, like you're on the balcony and everyone's like, like, it's shaking.
21:47 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like nervous.
21:49 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's I had.
21:49 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm here for it.
21:51 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like my style of music, but I went with my boyfriend now has been.
21:54 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_04]: She loves them.
21:55 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, we're not safe here.
21:58 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, there was the only time, I've been to a lot of concerts.
22:01 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_04]: There was the only time in a concert that I was like scared that I was going to get hurt.
22:05 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
22:05 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
22:06 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_04]: But it was a great show.
22:07 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And they were so weird.
22:08 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_04]: They're so weird on stage.
22:10 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not just the music.
22:10 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_04]: They're like so theatrical and like an interesting way.
22:13 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So.
22:14 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So anyway.
22:15 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
22:15 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So he wrote, I don't know if this was on social media or whatever, but put out there that his wife, Christy Cornel, was Mastercins victim and basically what he did, like he put Emily Armstrong on blast when it came out that she was the new singer of Lincoln Park for basically attending the hearing, essentially at least that first in support of Danny Masterson.
22:37 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe she's defending a rapist, but also to be fair, to be clear, she never spoke
22:45 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_03]: In support of Master Sin, Scientology, though did try to cover up his crimes for years.
22:52 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, Scientology is a religion that traditionally will veil a lot of what society deems as bad or fallen as behavior, which some other religions do.
23:01 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Which they're for sure, the a lot of our Cavalier way to put a Scientologist will like cover for each other.
23:08 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So, in any case, in this case,
23:13 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_03]: specifically here, it's unclear like what Emily Armstrong's culpability is like how far did she go?
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_03]: She showed up to support somebody she's friends with or whatever.
23:22 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that that what that really says about what she believes or what she's who she's defending at this point.
23:30 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_03]: So, but I want to put it out there.
23:32 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_03]: There are, like, if people are interested, they're a Reddit deep dive of people, like very thoroughly, Lincoln Park fans considering this and trying to decide what they think about it, which is I found interesting.
23:42 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about a song from over 20 years ago, so it doesn't have to, but Emily Armstrong is actually a key part of our conversation for reasons I'll explain in just a moment, but just wanted to put that there.
23:55 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's the deal.
23:57 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Chester Bennington is a man with a high voice relatively high singing voice.
24:03 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Emily Armstrong is a woman with a relatively low singing voice.
24:07 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Strong alto.
24:08 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, met so or control toe.
24:11 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We'd have to have a voice teacher diagnosed, right?
24:13 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And we could say that Chester is probably a tenor, right?
24:17 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_03]: and that changes something, that transition changes something in the band and I will say Chester is also one of those people who had essentially two voices, I would say.
24:29 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_03]: There's like the more pretty poppy lower part of his voice and then the higher more aggressive.
24:35 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's an example of what he sounds like when he's singing the more kind of like boy band range.
24:45 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's from the song right and here's the high screen.
24:54 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't just sound like he's higher.
24:56 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He's doing a different thing to his voice.
24:59 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He's adopted a different vocal technique.
25:01 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_03]: He essentially is somebody who can sing and can scream.
25:05 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't do the death metal screen or even the black metal screen, which are actually very different.
25:10 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_03]: But he has a rock scream to him, right?
25:13 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And plenty of iconic singers have this kind of split to their voice.
25:18 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_03]: And I will say it's really hard to do that.
25:21 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Most people don't.
25:22 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Most people have more of a seamless sort of transition for better or for worse, like they have options.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So let me give you a few examples.
25:28 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Chris Cornell, also Rest in Peace from Sound Garden.
25:32 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_03]: This is one phrase from the day I tried to live from 1994 where we're going to hear him kind of go into two different gear changes, not to make a reference to our modulations from the previous episode.
25:57 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_03]: God, I love that song so much.
25:59 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like almost like two different people.
26:01 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
26:01 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's maybe a less extreme example.
26:03 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Big Brother in the holding company.
26:04 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, Janis Joplin on vocals at this point.
26:07 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Piece of my heart, 1968.
26:08 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_08]: I like you all the only one that I'm in.
26:18 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I did not give you no the other things.
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to pass a flicker.
26:31 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: You hear how like when she goes higher, it's just a dops a very different character, right?
26:35 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_03]: As opposed to the soul tree kind of soulful stuff lower.
26:39 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: One more example, this is Maynor James Keenan from Tool, among other bands like Perfect Circle, et cetera.
26:45 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_05]: This is 46 and 2, 1996.
27:11 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I think tool is my favorite band of this genre.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the only one I really like.
27:15 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I would put tool in a different genre.
27:18 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, yeah.
27:18 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll turn it off.
27:19 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll turn it off metal, a progressive metal element to it.
27:22 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_03]: They're in the same era.
27:23 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think they're one that is sort of incorrectly lumped in.
27:27 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: OK.
27:28 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_03]: But tools around earlier tools more prolly, right?
27:32 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_03]: They're like, that song is really complicated.
27:34 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_03]: We did it in my ensemble at school.
27:36 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like the drummer is in ten eight while the bassist is in seven eight and we're just like at a certain point I'm like drummer just improvise.
27:43 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: You cannot try to keep just just groove because we can't we couldn't do it We had to kind of surrender and the audience didn't even know.
27:50 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_04]: No, probably that we failed to do it It's still sound a crime is fit into all of those primus kind of sort of defies genre.
27:56 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay
27:57 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of their stuff is almost funk metal.
27:59 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I saw them live randomly.
28:02 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: It was like they're one of their first concerts in a really long time.
28:04 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And it was like, our prime is very, very good and weird.
28:07 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
28:07 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know them like a lot of people like me would.
28:10 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
28:10 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But like some funk metal alternative metal or not metal like rock.
28:15 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_03]: focus sometimes.
28:17 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of.
28:17 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Prime Minister's a trip.
28:19 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we'll talk about them another time.
28:20 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So anyways, we've got a singer who has a very characteristic shift in his vocal tone, which is hard to duplicate.
28:28 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And we have to replace that singer if we're the band.
28:31 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're trying to make a new album in 2024.
28:34 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So Queen at one point got Adam Lambert, right?
28:37 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And Adam Lambert, nobody's Freddie Mercury, but he has a lot of the same capabilities as Freddie Mercury.
28:43 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say that they're range is similar.
28:45 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And presence is like distinct in a way that like that was a good sub, but like I'm not saying I don't remember it is better or worse in Freddie Mercury, but they tried to find somebody that would give be able to do what Freddie does, right?
29:00 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_03]: But Emily, not only because she's a woman, but in a big part because she's a woman has a necessarily a different vocal range.
29:08 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_03]: There are women with voices that would be exactly as low as gestures, but hers is a little bit.
29:15 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_03]: She's on the low side, but not a true like tenor or whatever.
29:19 --> 29:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So when I heard this record, and I was like, she's really doing the two voice thing.
29:24 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna hear her rasp and sing and stuff.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_03]: What do they do to their old songs?
29:28 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_03]: right because and this kind of brings us to what I want to talk about is each singer has something called a tessatura.
29:35 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard that word?
29:36 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Tessatura.
29:38 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, when you say it like that.
29:39 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course.
29:40 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of the best range of somebody's voice.
29:44 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So like my voice has a particular tamper that you could say is the ideal tamper.
29:51 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
29:51 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_03]: The tessatura is where that falls, right?
29:53 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I could sing higher and lower than that, but the lower you might get more vocal fried, the higher you might get more head tone or like, it's just sort of your where your most usable range is, it's called the tesseterra.
30:04 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And this relates to a voice type.
30:06 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So like a, if you think like a choir, you're auditioning for a choir, if they put you on bass,
30:11 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: you have a lower test of Tura than the tenor, or if they put you on alto, right?
30:17 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just sort of where somebody's range naturally falls.
30:21 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And so if we're lining them up in the choir or auditioning for an opera, Chester's a tenor probably, and Emily would be a mezzo-Soprano or a control tower or something like that, right?
30:31 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a point at which most voices switch registers, right?
30:35 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So you could either switch between your chest voice, right, to your head tone, which is like thinner and lighter.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I've got to save my voice for podcasting, so I'm not going to demonstrate all this stuff.
30:45 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But you can also switch into a false setto, which is more of a lighter voice, right?
30:49 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But you could also, in that same range, switch to a scream, just that in the bottom, you could switch to what people call vocal fry or like throw-boss, have heard voice teachers call it.
30:59 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And so the point I'm making though is these switch moments breaks to sometimes called or different for everybody, not literally everybody, like there are people that have identical vocal ranges than me.
31:10 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you took you and some other randomly chosen, let's say,
31:18 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, to say nothing, you know, you know, seven and a half-foot tall man like it necessarily his voice is probably going to be different, but you took a random woman and put her next to you.
31:28 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Your test of turrets would occupy slightly different vocal range and also the point in which you switch register from like head tone to scream or to chest voice would also be different.
31:38 --> 31:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's like a venn diagram about it that there's going to be some overlap, but now we're going to be like completely concentric.
31:44 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, but a song is often written or arranged with a certain voice in mind.
31:50 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I do like my current group or even my previous groups when I wasn't the only singer.
31:55 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know the person really well, oh, this note's going to be a scream.
31:59 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Like one of the guys in my band, he sings mostly backup vocals, really high voice, but like one of my screen notes, it'll sound almost too pretty if he does it.
32:07 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So like we have to like switch shoes doing what when we're doing even just arranging the backup vocals like, is Joshua Brian going to sing the high part.
32:15 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It depends on if we want someone to be more gritty or more pretty on the right.
32:19 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So all of this matters and when you were range and right music, you are thinking about these things and we're dealing with the band who had 20 years of repertoire.
32:28 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_03]: where everything to the point, I think, even the tuning of the instruments corresponded to what made Chester sound the way he sounds, whether even the key you choose for the song or just, well, what's the melody do?
32:41 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, do a scream one Chester and so that makes them choose different notes than if you wanted the pretty stuff.
32:47 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_04]: like the identity of the band was really developed by Chester's voice and now we have another singer coming in trying to find that overlap in the band diagram.
32:56 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So they she can sing the older songs and still have it be relevant.
33:01 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And so my question was what do they do?
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Like how do they handle those old songs?
33:05 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_04]: How do they do it?
33:23 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And so we're talking about numb from 2003, but we're really talking about the difference between 2003, Lincoln Park and 2026 Lincoln Park and how they would perform numb, right?
33:36 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_03]: So the way that I think about it is you've got kind of three ways to handle this if you're Lincoln, if you're the parks.
33:43 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_04]: The parks, yes.
33:45 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_03]: You can make no change to the key or anything like that.
33:48 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And she just sings it and it sounds the way it sounds, which if you're too singers have the same tesseterra and have similar breakpoints and stuff, it should work.
33:56 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's an example of a band that did that.
33:58 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a tune by ACDC, Highway to Hell, from 1979.
34:01 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the first incarnation of the song performed with the Levo Calis Bon Scott.
34:09 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's free!
34:25 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm trying to play mostly live recordings so we can actually compare apples to apples because in a studio you can, you know, make things you can do high notes.
34:34 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do live right.
34:35 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_03]: So compare that to Brian Johnson, the next singer of the band, they did not change the key.
34:41 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
34:41 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_03]: They kept things in the same register thinking that the tessatura would be similar enough.
35:03 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very interesting, because there's a trap here that you're going to sound like a cover band to yourself, right?
35:10 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like how much the iteration change, so it still feels like new music or feels fresh, but also honors the original and also moves the band forward and still gives the fans what they want.
35:25 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I would say in that case, balance.
35:27 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
35:28 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about playing those old songs, right?
35:31 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Van Halen's band had jumped around vocalists a lot and there would be vocalists that wouldn't play certain songs that used to be associated with.
35:40 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember the specifics, but like, you know, the guy from extreme was in their band at one point and he wouldn't sing.
35:46 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_03]: David LeRoss songs or whatever or like thing or snowy would sing his songs.
35:49 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_03]: There's like politics about that probably, but also just, well, I don't want to sound like I'm a David LeRoth cover artist, right?
35:55 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
35:55 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_03]: We got to do just the new stuff, just anything, hey, Gar later, right?
35:58 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So, but in that case, so like the ACDC tune to my ear, they kept the key the same, and they both have the range, but it sounds a little more Brian Johnson's version is a little more raspy falsetto.
36:11 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you can hear his voice be kind of in his light register,
36:16 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_03]: That kind of thing as opposed to bondscot's performance of it is just more sort of stable raspy.
36:22 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Brian Johnson's voice is higher because when we hear like back in black, by then.
36:28 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really intense in screaming, but it's higher.
36:31 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was, I don't think it's gone.
36:32 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_03]: The Black Black was, that was a new song for them.
36:36 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_03]: That was a comeback, right?
36:38 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I feel like maybe that song's too high for Bon Scott to have sung if he was still alive, right?
36:42 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I sounds like it because it's so well suited for the second singer.
36:46 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_03]: but they didn't pitch up highway to hell.
36:50 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
36:50 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So Brian Johnson could really rip on it.
36:52 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_03]: They just left it because he can do it.
36:53 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_03]: They thought it was fine.
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So option one, make no change at all.
36:57 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Option two, she sings it up the octave.
36:59 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, instead of seeing at Middle C, she would sing high C, the octave up, right?
37:04 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Cause remember from previous episodes, like these notes repeat.
37:08 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_03]: CDE, that's not a C, but like.
37:10 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_03]: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C-A
37:30 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_03]: which creates a majorly different vibe.
37:33 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Are you ever singing along on the radio or whatever?
37:36 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like a low, dude singing, and it gets too low, and you can't sing along, so you have to pop high.
37:41 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You know what, it happened to me just the other day.
37:43 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it happens to the best of us.
37:45 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I was singing Man Child by Superieta Carpenter that I was like, I can't sing it in this key, but I can sing it lower.
37:50 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_03]: You sing it lower.
37:51 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_03]: A little bit low, or you sing it.
37:53 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: But if it's still sounded like the song, then as you sang it, I'd say down an octave.
37:57 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And I even thought to myself, I'm just going to take this down an octave today.
38:01 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:02 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is usually not the solution bands or artists take.
38:08 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So let me give you an example of it happening though.
38:10 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is the song Jackson from 1967.
38:12 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Johnny Cash with June Carter.
38:16 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Johnny first.
38:23 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to mess around, yeah, I'm going to Jackson, look out Jackson's house.
38:33 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's June, later in the song, let me do all you were saying, if you're going to Jackson, don't call me your hate, I'm going to snowball Jackson.
38:51 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's one song where we hear the two different octaves, but as opposed to like a cover version or somebody doing it later.
38:59 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_03]: But what's the deal with Johnny Cash's voice?
39:02 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_04]: That's so good.
39:03 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's super low, right?
39:04 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And so that works well because they can both be in good tesseterra.
39:08 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he can sing.
39:10 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_03]: He sounds good low.
39:11 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_03]: You put her up in octave.
39:12 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_03]: She sounds good in that part of her voice.
39:14 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas in most pop, you know, putting a side Johnny Cache and the guy from crash test dummies on the low end and then putting a side like some Joni Mitchell high notes or like, you know, maybe Kate Bush.
39:27 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Most vocalists.
39:29 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_03]: In pop songs are either high singing men, like tenor, or kind of low singing women, right?
39:36 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_03]: There isn't as much bass and soprano lead vocals, so what that means is your typical pop song or rock song or whatever.
39:45 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_03]: If you just pop it up the octave, you'd be in a weird test deterrent, because like a tenor screamin at the top of his range does not sound the same as a soprano or an alto singing at the top like it changes the character.
39:58 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is an example where that works because the sort of first melody you hear is really low.
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, let's just bring it up the octave, but this is
40:06 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say by far the less common path and I would not expect Lincoln Park to take this path.
40:13 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_03]: They would have had to have hired a female vocalist with really high notes.
40:17 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
40:17 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Because they wouldn't be screaming, right?
40:18 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be all flaky and like it would be like whistle-tony, more not whistle-tony, but Mariah Carey power not scream power.
40:26 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of hard to have the grit required at the octave that a female singer would sing.
40:36 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so method one, make no change.
40:38 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Method two, she would do it all up the octave.
40:41 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Method three, change the key of the song.
40:44 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, fun.
40:45 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So that you could she could sing it like Chester, because if a song is a C major and it gives this awesome break where he can scream on the high G and sing pretty on the lower G. You just shift that up to where it spits for her.
40:59 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Where it's her, G, which is now a C or whatever.
41:01 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I got it.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So.
41:03 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's hear some examples of this.
41:04 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a pretty common solution.
41:08 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_03]: People would find.
41:09 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is take it to the limit by the Eagles.
41:11 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_08]: 1975, this is the original vocalist, Randy Meizner.
41:31 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_08]: And take it to the limit of one more hole.
41:41 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So Randy leaves the band replaced Timothy B. Schmidt, the new icing in basis does not sing lead on this.
41:48 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Glenn Fry would then take lead and Glenn Fry as a much lower voice.
41:53 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_08]: So they just pitch the song into a different key.
42:14 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a little more country rock, a little less gospel.
42:24 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And I love this third approach because it's allowing the new singer to calm, not reinvent the song, but make it their own in a way that doesn't sound so much like a cover.
42:34 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
42:37 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_04]: it like changes the song enough that you know it's a different version you don't have to question like did they just swap something out and then I'm thinking back to me singing in my car this Sabrina Carpenter song and while I don't think like you know I say to you like oh I thought let me just bring this down in octaves so I can sing it the only reason that works is because I can't change the key in my car because I have the track on the radio not that too but yeah
43:00 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_04]: You need some assistance.
43:02 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, yeah, I would.
43:03 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I would need to remix it.
43:05 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd just catch if the whole song down.
43:07 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
43:07 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the organic thing that my innate musical ear untrained ear does.
43:13 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just changed the octave because that fits in the schema of the song already.
43:18 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have to change the rest of the song.
43:19 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Level three, that's level two, Nicole, right?
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Level one is just you can't sing it.
43:24 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Level two is sing it down the octave.
43:26 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Level three is gonna add harmonies.
43:27 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You're gonna sing low harmonies.
43:29 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I hear harmonies, yeah, I'm not scared yet.
43:31 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I have to make them, but it doesn't sound good.
43:33 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
43:34 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it does.
43:35 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Or practice.
43:35 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a great singer, you'll never know.
43:37 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So another example before we get back to Lincoln Park of a similar phenomenon is people's ranges changing as they age.
43:46 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
43:47 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So I found three different keys here.
43:50 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to start with the studio recording of this song from 1996 when Taylor Hanson was 13 years old.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is
44:01 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the key of A major which gives him a nice high note we're about to hear of a C sharp 5 which is really high.
44:31 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_03]: God, I hate the DJ scratches so much.
44:33 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I like a good DJ scrap, but the look of what us from the late 90s is so amazing.
44:38 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not everything about Hanson, but I'm just mystified by them.
44:42 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't wait to hear as they get older.
44:44 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_04]: They go.
44:44 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_04]: OK. Yep, so.
44:45 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So it didn't take long, 1998.
44:48 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So 15 years of age when this recording was.
44:52 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And I couldn't.
44:52 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the studio.
44:53 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have something from 1996 or 97 because he recorded it before the album came out.
44:58 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_03]: He was already a year older when the album came out and so any live performances of them doing it would have already had a little bit of puberty action probably.
45:07 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is his 15 gross 1998.
45:10 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the key of F. So they moved it down a whole major third four half steps.
45:15 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So the high note here is in a respectable screeny high note still.
45:23 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_08]: Can you thank you, Will you be a man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you be a good man, Will you
45:44 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_03]: You ready for one more?
45:45 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
45:45 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_03]: 20, 23.
45:46 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
45:48 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Down one half step.
45:50 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Just a half step.
45:50 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Now we're in the key of E. I feel like him at 15.
45:53 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_03]: His voice, his range was kind of where it is.
45:55 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's 40 years old when this record is, it's got a high G sharp.
46:00 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Another.
46:00 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_03]: They're all right.
46:01 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_04]: They're like exactly our age.
46:03 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:04 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty darn close.
46:05 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_04]: That's wild.
46:06 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_03]: They were a kid band when we were kids.
46:08 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we were we were maybe Taylor's the middle kids age or tiny bit older than him.
46:12 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:12 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the brother was like a high schooler.
46:15 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:17 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like 17 or something.
46:19 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
46:19 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
46:19 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_03]: 2023.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Same song.
46:22 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_08]: One half step even lower.
46:30 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_08]: It's getting sadder.
46:49 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_03]: What, so what I love about that is a 2023, it's being videoed, it's on TV or whatever, and it's not backing track, like they're doing that.
46:56 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And they sound good, like it doesn't have like, they're 11, 13, and 15-year-old selves on harmonies in the background being piped in, or like, you know, I think there might be a few extra musicians, but I don't know, it's real.
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_03]: He sounds good.
47:08 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I was thinking, you know, earlier, when you were playing early versions of numb by Lincoln Park,
47:14 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_04]: My first thought was how old was Chester?
47:17 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_09]: Nice.
47:17 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
47:18 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So, and how old was he when he died?
47:20 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you noticed, like, the tone when you played the first version, like, it sounds like a boy.
47:25 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a boy.
47:27 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't he has like this clear tonality that like is reminiscent of an early Hansen.
47:33 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_03]: He died at the age of 41.
47:34 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
47:35 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe like the last version of num we had was an older male tester singing, right?
47:41 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_03]: But he was mid 20s.
47:42 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I think when num came out.
47:43 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but the testeteria will change for him.
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it changes.
47:46 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_03]: As somebody who sings and has sung, my entire adult life, my test of Tura has widened the little bit.
47:53 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Eventually, it will change to my detriment, like I'll need to go lower, I'll lose high notes, and maybe gain some low notes, but that hasn't happened yet.
48:00 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, up until your 40s, like, the more he sings, he's just getting better, most likely less he's blowing.
48:04 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_03]: He now drugged you, so no, that can change that.
48:06 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But his voice might have more of a youthful character in 2003, then, then in 2017, when he passed, but...
48:13 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_03]: his range was probably the same if anything he probably had easier high notes instead.
48:17 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So you're saying that like after at a certain point in vocal development you're kind of static.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So this would change it.
48:24 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Now practice interestingly can't no amount of practice is going to get me to sing lower notes.
48:29 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_03]: My low voice is pretty much capped out, based on the length of my vocal cords.
48:35 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_03]: But you can always get higher.
48:37 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_03]: You can always get better at high notes.
48:38 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_03]: So within reason, right?
48:40 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So the comparison here that I want to get into after all that warm up is the comparison between Chester and Emily, okay?
48:48 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Because how did Lincoln park handle the transformation with regards to his test of her versus hers and his screaming voice versus hers, right?
48:58 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So this song, Num, which we'll get to, finally, is in the key of F sharp minor, and the guitars are tuned to drop C sharp, which is a pain.
49:06 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It means you're tuning every single string down one half step, plus the low string down three half steps.
49:12 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You need thick strings for it to sound good.
49:14 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Why would you do that?
49:16 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Why would you do that?
49:17 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_03]: You get an extra super low note, right?
49:19 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's a low C sharp.
49:20 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_03]: They use it exactly once in the song.
49:24 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
49:25 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_09]: Here we're just like me.
49:31 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
49:32 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how worth it that is, but really it's it's just everything a little lower.
49:36 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Probably since most of their songs, maybe we're in that tuning.
49:41 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, let's just keep it for the song.
49:43 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a song that it's important to have a re-tuning.
49:45 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's come in from that all the down tune your guitars.
49:48 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_03]: You even get that 7 string guitarist who get the low B very clearly feeling like playing a note no one wants to hear.
49:55 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to hear it.
49:56 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to hear that little thing?
49:57 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, you got to be careful.
49:59 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_03]: You got to be careful in the mix.
50:00 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It could be very muddy.
50:01 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Careful.
50:01 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_03]: OK.
50:02 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So when we transition to 2024, and their live performances after reunion, the new version is up.
50:10 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_03]: three half steps.
50:12 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
50:12 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_03]: A minor and this I believe I am pausing is to suit Emily's vocal range, right?
50:19 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Now the reason I mentioned all that tuning is because it actually has implications on the guitar also, right?
50:24 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So it theoretically could be easier because your low note that low C sharp I just played, you could just play a regular tuned E. That is the actual guitar low note, but that implies that
50:39 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_03]: which they don't.
50:39 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So they probably either just tune the guitar the way they always do or probably have like seven guitars that they're swapping around on stage.
50:47 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're Brad Delson, you've been playing the song the same way since 2003.
50:52 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And now you're like, okay, got to change every how much muscle memory are you having to fight a lot.
50:58 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, it's probably a hard shift to make.
51:00 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a hard song to play.
51:01 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like a virtuosic song, so we can do it.
51:04 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But I wonder how often on stage, there's still like this brain fart moment, like he or the bass player will slam like, oh, it's always fret number seven, and now it's actually fret number 10, because you've transposed everything, or you've retuned your guitar or whatever.
51:17 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
51:18 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, this has implications not just on the guitarist, but the span has two lead vocalists.
51:23 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So the second guy, Mike Chinoda, who's most likely the rapper, his rap, could either not change at all, right?
51:31 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Just rap.
51:32 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of his voice in terms of the tonality.
51:34 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But he does sing, too.
51:36 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So some of those songs, he's going to be in a different range.
51:39 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And how does that?
51:40 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like they're re auditioning both people at the same time.
51:43 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But on a song like one of their single paper cut, which is basically a Mike Shinoda dominated rap, they just leave the key.
51:49 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she can see her.
51:50 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_01]: She has like the baby, my skin, that kind of screen.
51:54 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Just leave it.
51:55 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_03]: She'll do the, she'll do the, she'll just figure it out.
51:57 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_03]: No matter what, just leave it the same.
51:59 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Why make the basis and we get Taurus, probably not the drummer.
52:02 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Retune their instrument, right?
52:03 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Not drummer.
52:04 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_04]: He's really like, I finally locked out.
52:06 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_04]: He does not have to transpose it, man.
52:08 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so
52:10 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We got from f-sharp minor to a minor.
52:14 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Centuries ago, the key of the song mattered.
52:17 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, not anymore.
52:18 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It's spiritually.
52:19 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
52:20 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So according to Christian shoebarts, not shoebarts, shoebarts, Idaean, Sue, Ina, iced, the teak.
52:26 --> 52:28 [SPEAKER_03]: They're Tokunst, 1806.
52:29 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_04]: What does it mean?
52:30 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea.
52:31 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
52:32 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_03]: But the original key of F sharp minor, according to Christian, was gloomy and quote, Tugs at Passion as a dog biting the dress.
52:41 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_03]: It has got passion.
52:42 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It has vibes for sure.
52:43 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_03]: A minor symbolized, pious womanliness and tenderness of character.
52:48 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_04]: People tell me all the time, Nicole, you're such an a minor.
52:51 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_03]: A minor, which new meaning post like us.
52:55 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
52:55 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_04]: As soon as I said, I allowed, I was like, that's weird.
52:58 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And also like,
52:59 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We also have to remember that back in the day keys also meant something more because instruments could only produce in certain keys for example in tune.
53:07 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So if like if you were playing a harpsichord which in sort of perfect tuning, which we call just intonation, you would tune it.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say to the key of C.
53:15 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_03]: and all other keys would be slightly out of tune.
53:18 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_03]: The farther away from see you get the more out of tune.
53:21 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So when you had a key change in a song, it would actually feel unstable and you would want to return home.
53:26 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Or in a symphony, if your symphony was in sea, the trumpets would be sea trumpets.
53:30 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And you go to another key, they can't even play.
53:32 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So at the end of the symphonic movement when this
53:35 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Corns come back in, you know you're in your home key.
53:37 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_03]: It meant something that does not really mean anything now.
53:41 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_04]: In new metals, this new metal world.
53:43 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Certainly not a new metal, except for the implications of the guitarist.
53:47 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But this means something to the performance of this song.
53:49 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And so after all that wind up, let's see what it does.
53:53 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_03]: let's listen to the second verse of the song.
53:56 --> 53:58 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the way Chester sings it.
53:59 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, I'm going with an almost all cases live performances.
54:02 --> 54:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So we don't get like auto tune help or something like that.
54:20 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_08]: And here's Emily doing it in the three half steps higher key.
54:39 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_04]: It's so different, and I don't love it.
54:42 --> 54:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like prettier, prettier, and softer.
54:46 --> 54:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It is.
54:46 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't sound like iconic Lincoln Park.
54:50 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
54:51 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's a bombardment.
54:52 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not Chester.
54:53 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's for sure.
54:54 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's supposed to sell iconic.
54:55 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's, let's keep going.
54:56 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see what happens.
54:57 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He does have a very recognizable voice.
54:59 --> 55:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Which makes it tough when you replace that.
55:02 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_04]: That he died.
55:03 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's sad.
55:04 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really sad.
55:04 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
55:05 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so here's the pre-chorus.
55:07 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_06]: You're gonna hear him bring a little bit of his grit in his higher range.
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a DJ scratch.
55:26 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I like a little more so here's Emily doing it, but no, we have Mike Shinoda coming in caught in the undertone.
55:33 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Is he going to pitch shift up to or is he just going to stay low?
55:35 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see what he does.
55:51 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think I'm gonna make enemies here?
55:54 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like I don't like it.
55:56 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_04]: You know like it I think that you know the spoken spoken word.
55:59 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not right.
56:00 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_04]: The rap part He didn't do anything.
56:03 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_04]: He just don't have a little higher to me about the little higher.
56:06 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like he was phoneing
56:08 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I'm being very critical today, but it felt like he was spawning it in.
56:11 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
56:12 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
56:13 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of the undertone, man.
56:15 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's interesting to me though, because in the verse, she, her voice, her treatment of the line felt more pretty, but here she's bringing actually more grit.
56:22 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:23 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_03]: She has a little bit of what is sometimes called the death metal growl.
56:27 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_03]: She has a real, like she really lets it rip on her high notes.
56:31 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels like overly performative to me.
56:33 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
56:34 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, she does, she sounded like that on the, the weatherman song and we like that.
56:38 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
56:38 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So, let's see what the, the main hook, there's the chorus of the song.
56:41 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's Chester first.
56:53 --> 57:02 [SPEAKER_08]: And here's Emily.
57:04 --> 57:06 [SPEAKER_03]: to me, they sound very similar characterized there.
57:06 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I think they have successfully like put her in the same tesseter as him, or I say, put her in the same register as him, her tesseter is, they're not in their tesseter here.
57:17 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_03]: They're above their tesseter.
57:18 --> 57:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's why
57:20 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_04]: it feels like there's more parity because they're both a little bit out of their comfort zones.
57:25 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think her test a tear her comfort zone compared to chesters is prettier.
57:30 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's maybe.
57:31 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
57:31 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And I just for me, that's how it sounds and it doesn't.
57:34 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
57:35 --> 57:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to come back to the pretty pretty, pretty, that's actually a little weird.
57:38 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_03]: A couple more sections is two more to as comparison points.
57:41 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the bridge of the song.
57:43 --> 57:44 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Chester performing it.
58:04 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_11]: Here's Emily.
58:26 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a couple of thoughts, one like, how do you maintain that?
58:29 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_03]: There's ways of doing it.
58:31 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name, but like voice teachers can teach how to do the metal screen without killing your voice.
58:36 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_04]: it seems it's really impressive to me that you can maintain that and not after night night after night two hours said yeah like it's wild and I know you know my kid does voice lessons and there's a guy and that takes lessons like at the same time it's her that I always listen to and he's being taught how to do the death metal screen yeah and it's it's hard to listen to it is well like
58:59 --> 59:03 [SPEAKER_03]: you're waiting there while you're learning it to like he hasn't mastered it yet.
59:03 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_04]: He hasn't just seems like you're gonna blow out your voice, right?
59:07 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_04]: But I like the level of crit chetace just take it further than Chester does.
59:11 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Chester is more tender than she is.
59:14 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I when I listened to from zero for our male bag last year, the new album,
59:19 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I did feel like it was heavier than a lot of the Lincoln Park I had heard in the last few albums.
59:25 --> 59:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And I wondered if they were like, people think we brought this woman and it's going to go soft.
59:29 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go harder.
59:30 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like overracked.
59:31 --> 59:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if she's overcorrecting on this because her voice just seems like she has so much more grit than him on some of these high notes.
59:38 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But it does change.
59:39 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a real desperation to this section or that I hear with her, whether people like it
59:49 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_03]: The one more section I wanted to play was the outro because it features a little more mic.
59:55 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted to see like, okay, how does he do with the key change?
59:58 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's pitched singing instead of just rapping.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's the outro, just her first.
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_03]: and then in the hierarchy.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know when he thoughts he's definitely singing higher there.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: It's definitely singing higher, it seems definitely more cohesive in this last segment than previously in the song to me because he is matching her more.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_04]: It seems less like he's just like jamming in there, but like he's actually dying.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:00:58 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, he's working a little harder.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It's either knows.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm interested too and like the interpersonal stuff here of like how, you know, with everyone in Lincoln Park, like on board with even getting together again, under the name Lincoln Park was there like dynamics about like, or conversations.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, we have this new singer, we're changing parts of these songs that are recognized, thebly changed, do we change the name of our band?
01:01:37 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we reinvent ourselves to be like rebrand entirely?
01:01:41 --> 01:02:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Or do we hold onto this Lincoln park band because it's recognizable and there's history there and there's a fan base there like I wonder I think they're trying to change as little as they can yeah because and and I have a few examples just of other songs just to keep comparisons because they're changing their key often to to keep her in a relationship to her range and her testeter that is similar to chesters by pushing usually just a few tones higher.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_03]: to not like adopt some new sound or whatever, I don't know though.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's fascinating.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't imagine people in the band where there were people that were really opposed to it.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_04]: They must have all agreed to it, but I wonder how much time lasts between Chester's death and their reinvention with her as a singer.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_03]: This is seven years later.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So how long was that in the mix like was this two years before them?
01:02:33 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_03]: They recruited her.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:54 [SPEAKER_03]: But that was sort of their debut with the new singer's 2024 and it's all the albums all new music and what we're hearing now is just when they perform live and so let's tap through a few of them and then Then we'll sort of zoom out to your conversation, but here's some of their hits with different solutions to this question of what do you do with the key.
01:02:54 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is breaking the habit 2003 original key E minor here's Chester
01:03:17 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And here's up a minor third.
01:03:18 --> 01:03:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So the same three half step change we had up to G minor.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's Emily do it the same song.
01:03:39 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I like that.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't mind it as much there.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_03]: More grit there.
01:03:43 --> 01:03:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for sure.
01:03:43 --> 01:03:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm wondering if it's because that first selection you played is the song that I'm more familiar with and culturally a lot of people are more familiar with.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're more annoyed by the difference.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_04]: We're like iconic, like let Chester have it.
01:03:57 --> 01:03:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So do you know what I've done from 2007?
01:03:58 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no.
01:04:00 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Originally the key of G minor.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's Chester.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_08]: Same thing here, up a minor third, B flat minor, here's Emily.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_08]: One, two, three, four, five, six, five, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six,
01:04:50 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I think she sounds great there.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I think she sounds great too.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely a prettier.
01:04:53 --> 01:04:54 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's so.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_03]: But I know.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I do, I, I, I, and now I'm that I hear it.
01:04:58 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I, I have heard that song before, but I think for me, I think they should have hung up a couple songs with her, and not even tried the things that were like iconically chestur.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's get to that.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Couple more examples.
01:05:12 --> 01:05:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's a few examples of them, not changing the key.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_03]: This is new divide 2009 live F minor.
01:05:39 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_03]: and then no key change here, still F minor, see what she sounds like.
01:05:56 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
01:06:08 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's okay, like let them be big and let it be in after the most of them.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:06:14 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can't help but feel like this one might also been Mike Shenoda doing.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Go.
01:06:21 --> 01:06:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I cannot do that.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I do.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I do.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:24 [SPEAKER_03]: This is already high.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:25 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
01:06:25 --> 01:06:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's another one where they did not change the key.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Burn It Down from 2012.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:31 [SPEAKER_03]: A minor.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_03]: This is Chester.
01:06:52 --> 01:07:15 [SPEAKER_08]: And then here's her same key.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, they both don't sound great in all of the lives.
01:07:18 --> 01:07:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, interestingly.
01:07:19 --> 01:07:26 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm standing by my thought that I don't like how they changed the key for her.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that she even if she sounds weaker, I think that that's like,
01:07:32 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and I like, oh, this is gross.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_04]: But I like that she sounds weaker.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I want him to be stronger.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:39 [SPEAKER_04]: They're his songs.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I have a their their songs to write.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I know, yeah, they co-wrote those songs.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure.
01:07:44 --> 01:07:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and like they're playing it in the key that they wrote it in and she can adapt.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So speaking of prettier and weaker or whatever, weaker is not a term I would use.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:56 [SPEAKER_03]: But let's, let's look at another unusual solution here.
01:07:56 --> 01:07:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:07:56 --> 01:07:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is in the end, you know?
01:07:58 --> 01:07:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
01:07:59 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark's false set of wake up in the freshman year of college.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It's all coming back here.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So 2000.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
01:08:06 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is originally in the key of E flat minor.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:20 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the hook of the song, Chester.
01:08:33 --> 01:08:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So they do it with her up one whole step.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So F minor, not three half steps, but a little bit less than that.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:47 [SPEAKER_02]: One, two, three, four.
01:08:47 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_08]: Left, left, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right
01:09:00 --> 01:09:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So, that's not actually the highlight here, though.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:09:04 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Part of what made I think, Lincoln Park's successful, is the two voices of Chester Benington, that he has this sort of lower boy band pop voice that does, that sounds like he should be in the scene.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And then he has the screams, and so we get to the bridge of this song, which is the super poppy, pretty part.
01:09:23 --> 01:09:24 [SPEAKER_06]: Every night, just,
01:09:27 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to play a second of the studio just to give you a sense.
01:09:30 --> 01:09:50 [SPEAKER_06]: This is what he sounds like live doing it though.
01:09:53 --> 01:10:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, then it explodes and that's like part of what makes Lincoln Parkling from it does so here's what Emily does when they perform in the end okay
01:10:19 --> 01:10:21 [SPEAKER_08]: I put my shrimp.
01:10:21 --> 01:10:22 [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't sing it.
01:10:22 --> 01:10:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The audience sings it.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You asked about, well, who should they cut out on some of them?
01:10:27 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:10:27 --> 01:10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: The really like pretty boy band stuff.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they're not doing.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say the the prettiest song.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know where every song is there.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:34 [SPEAKER_04]: She was so good singing.
01:10:34 --> 01:10:35 [SPEAKER_04]: That was so excited to hear her sing that.
01:10:36 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say the prettiest song I know by them is Shadow of the Day.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:41 [SPEAKER_03]: This song.
01:10:50 --> 01:11:04 [SPEAKER_08]: Also known as Lincoln Park's version of with her without you, right?
01:11:05 --> 01:11:09 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what they'd sound like playing that song live, Chester.
01:11:17 --> 01:11:31 [SPEAKER_08]: And let's see what Emily sounds like.
01:11:31 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait, they don't ever do it live.
01:11:33 --> 01:11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Never.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I could not find any, and by the way, on the, in the end, I watched multiple live videos of them.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:42 [SPEAKER_03]: She never does the pretty part.
01:11:42 --> 01:11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Never.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's something about this that makes me wonder, like, are they, they want her to do the heavy grit stuff, but don't want her to do the pretty stuff.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:54 [SPEAKER_03]: And like, bringing it back real quick to dead Sarah.
01:11:54 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_03]: This is their song from 2021, uninspired.
01:11:57 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_03]: She sounds pretty pretty in this song.
01:12:07 --> 01:12:11 [SPEAKER_08]: It's something that I have to go through
01:12:15 --> 01:12:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, it has a little bit of the rasp, but it's like, she could do that stuff.
01:12:20 --> 01:12:21 [SPEAKER_04]: She couldn't, it would be lovely.
01:12:22 --> 01:12:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so it's really fascinating.
01:12:23 --> 01:12:24 [SPEAKER_04]: It's an interesting choice.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:32 [SPEAKER_03]: The choices they're making in terms of which ones they change the key to make it gritty or which ones they don't, and which ones they just don't do at all.
01:12:32 --> 01:12:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they can do shadow of the day and have the audience sing the whole thing.
01:12:35 --> 01:12:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, like, it's a weird...
01:12:37 --> 01:12:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's weird.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:41 [SPEAKER_03]: It's fascinating, and I'm really glad I deep dove into this as much.
01:12:41 --> 01:12:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you get it?
01:12:42 --> 01:12:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you get it?
01:12:43 --> 01:12:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Two listeners, it's a long episode.
01:12:44 --> 01:12:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I have so many like questions and they're all like kind of gross questions like are the songs that they're opting not to play live anymore that they're not changing.
01:12:55 --> 01:13:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there some sort of writing credit or copyright on them that belongs to Chester so they can't?
01:13:03 --> 01:13:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I think they co-write all their songs and I think what that means in terms of the splits is as far as I understand it, I think a lot of the lyrics are Chester and the music is all of them.
01:13:13 --> 01:13:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So, Chester's estate probably owns more stake than anyone member of Lincoln Park, but the publishing of the song, like the control of playing the songs, it doesn't matter like people heard our copyright episode like you and I could go play these songs live, no one could stop us, right?
01:13:28 --> 01:13:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, maybe there's more money to be made if you play songs that you own the copyright on, but like there's no way that like we'll shadow of the day we won't we'll lose money on no it's there's something about the vibe of the song that they don't like either they don't want to do without him you know that's like a very uplifting song
01:13:45 --> 01:14:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe they would want to honor him with that, but maybe not maybe it's too sad or maybe they don't like the way it sounds with her or she doesn't like singing it like I don't know Reason and I need to I need to know what the reason is I wonder there's got to be a Lincoln park read it somewhere That can tell us information, but like or they're deep diving on whether or not she should be taking the task for supporting you know Oh Great, yeah, well first, but yeah, so people are probably talking about that.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm wondering like if it is a choice to protect
01:14:15 --> 01:14:22 [SPEAKER_04]: persona and protect his memory, or like honor his memory by maybe that was his favorite song or something.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
01:14:23 --> 01:14:24 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a story there.
01:14:24 --> 01:14:26 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a story there and I want to know.
01:14:26 --> 01:14:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I had a lot of episode time.
01:14:30 --> 01:14:30 [SPEAKER_04]: You did.
01:14:30 --> 01:14:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the people are still listening though.
01:14:35 --> 01:14:42 [SPEAKER_03]: You wanted to talk about certain things that I thought maybe would be informed partially least by these personnel change dynamics.
01:14:42 --> 01:14:50 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I think that like it definitely changes the tone of how I plan to address the topic I was planning to address.
01:14:50 --> 01:14:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Because my original idea here was to think about Lincoln Park and how there was this like
01:14:58 --> 01:15:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Proceed from a very much an outsider of this genre, a perceived like lack of genuineness for the fandom and how the fandom represents itself, that how troubled could you be being from the valley and like living in California and your layers are so dark and glib, but then I learned that he had a lot of mental health challenges and he died from suicide and then I felt
01:15:20 --> 01:15:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Remorseful that of course, of course, and everyone's three-dimensional has a backstory that isn't representative of, you know, we can't make assumptions.
01:15:30 --> 01:15:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And Chester was also like brought in.
01:15:32 --> 01:15:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Like they were failing as a band as zero with a different singer.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And then they brought someone found Chester lived out of state.
01:15:40 --> 01:15:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like brought in by their manager like found and like brought there and joined and like then they hit.
01:15:45 --> 01:15:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know to what to the extent his story mirrored there's as like suburban LA.
01:15:51 --> 01:15:52 [SPEAKER_03]: It was not quite the same.
01:15:52 --> 01:16:02 [SPEAKER_04]: But I do still can see a lot of connections between this topic of identity development and the journey that Lincoln Park took as a band with the shifting identity.
01:16:02 --> 01:16:05 [SPEAKER_04]: This like break in the middle of their development.
01:16:05 --> 01:16:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what I think I can make some connections about here in terms of like identity versus role confusion in specifically adolescent development.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:16:15 --> 01:16:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So we might have like hinted at Eric Erickson to this views of psychosocial development in the previous episode, but I'm not sure we really dwelled on it, and I think that this is a good moment to do that.
01:16:25 --> 01:16:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Eric, son of Eric.
01:16:27 --> 01:16:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, Eric, son of Eric.
01:16:28 --> 01:16:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So the way I teach it is that.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:45 [SPEAKER_04]: There are a lot of different theoretical viewpoints about human development, one of them that I rooting in my classes is Eric Erickson's theories of psychosocial development that like the ecological variables of the people that we grow up with matter to how we turn out, right?
01:16:46 --> 01:16:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And Erickson said that in every developmental stage, which we've already noted here, are mainly front-loaded towards like early childhood,
01:16:53 --> 01:17:01 [SPEAKER_04]: that you have what decals a crisis moment where you have to decide or life decides for you like one path or the other.
01:17:01 --> 01:17:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And in at a lesson years, he said that this moment, this decision point we're facing is determining our identity versus exploring like role confusion and how do we become who we are?
01:17:13 --> 01:17:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And that moment happens in adolescence.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So I would argue a lot of people that were listening to Lincoln Park in my mind's eye are wayward youth high schoolers, they're trying to figure out who they are, right?
01:17:27 --> 01:17:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And for least in our cohort, right?
01:17:29 --> 01:17:36 [SPEAKER_04]: That's when high school college, we're trying to figure out who we are, how we turn out over time, right?
01:17:36 --> 01:17:39 [SPEAKER_03]: whether to wake up at 7 a.m. or wake up at 1 p.m.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:17:40 --> 01:17:41 [SPEAKER_04]: It would make those distinctions.
01:17:42 --> 01:17:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And when you look at the fandom of Lincoln Park, it seemed to me very performative and really like costumed almost, like a certain type of person.
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you were a Lincoln Park fan.
01:17:54 --> 01:18:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And at that time, you did like wear that costume and perform and go to Woodstock 99 and do all those Woodstock 99 things.
01:18:03 --> 01:18:09 [SPEAKER_04]: But you made a choice at some point to hang up portions of that personality and not bring them forward with you in time.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: You hypothetical.
01:18:12 --> 01:18:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Hypnotic you mark like you as a person.
01:18:14 --> 01:18:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
01:18:15 --> 01:18:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And still in you.
01:18:16 --> 01:18:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Meaning you didn't, you're not still dressing that way with the chains.
01:18:20 --> 01:18:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:18:20 --> 01:18:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And putting the egg whites in your mohawk.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:25 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, it's in your heart somewhere.
01:18:25 --> 01:18:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
01:18:25 --> 01:18:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:18:25 --> 01:18:33 [SPEAKER_04]: That person still exists inside you, but like you wear a sweater vest and go to your kids baseball games and like listen to Lincoln Park in the car on the way back.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
01:18:34 --> 01:18:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:18:35 --> 01:18:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Like for me in adolescence, I was really into like grateful dead and Bob Dylan and had dreadlocks which was problematic and like made my own bell bottoms and wore them around.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And like, I don't dress like that now.
01:18:47 --> 01:18:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't cost him like that now.
01:18:49 --> 01:18:51 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's still part of me.
01:18:51 --> 01:18:53 [SPEAKER_04]: it's still like in me, right?
01:18:53 --> 01:19:05 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think of that idea and that construct and then layered on top of Lincoln Park's development as a band that maybe they had to change their outward appearance a little bit, but it is like the true soul of Lincoln Park still there.
01:19:06 --> 01:19:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Like how much did they retain and how much did they give up?
01:19:09 --> 01:19:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm just thinking what that is here.
01:19:11 --> 01:19:13 [SPEAKER_04]: You're talking with this idea of test and terror, right?
01:19:13 --> 01:19:15 [SPEAKER_04]: This like sweet spot of our vocal range.
01:19:16 --> 01:19:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Like where is the sweet spot of your identity?
01:19:20 --> 01:19:24 [SPEAKER_04]: And what are some influences that contributed to that?
01:19:24 --> 01:19:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if you close your eyes and thought, like what is the pure version of you?
01:19:27 --> 01:19:30 [SPEAKER_04]: How much of new metal is in there?
01:19:30 --> 01:19:32 [SPEAKER_04]: How much of pop music is in there?
01:19:32 --> 01:19:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And how much of your family or culture or your generational cohort is mixed in there and and what do we what do we choose to bring with us when we move forward in time through our development.
01:19:42 --> 01:20:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that Lincoln Park made some really strong choices that were mindful about what to take with them when they move forward at the time of their development and they made choices to leave some stuff behind and maybe the songs they chose not to perform with their new singer were active choices of things like shed as they move forward in their development so they could continue to grow.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think this is something we could talk about even and related to other artists, but the changing over time thing in general, like I think about what it's like to be 50 or whatever they are and a member of Blink 182 right singing the like high school poop jokes that you sang when you were teenager when they first did their first songs and some of those songs popped off and became popular enough they need to still play them when they play right.
01:20:25 --> 01:20:44 [SPEAKER_03]: are like Hanson still performing in Bob right so so many related to the emotions of umbop anymore right that they wrote or co-wrote or whatever when they were teenagers yeah and i think when you change look like i i'm the main songwriter of my band but we do a few songs that are i didn't write and one of them
01:20:44 --> 01:20:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
01:20:45 --> 01:20:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not even totally sure what it's about.
01:20:47 --> 01:20:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And I sing it and I add my own emotions to it.
01:20:50 --> 01:20:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And I try to make it work.
01:20:52 --> 01:21:00 [SPEAKER_03]: But when there's a whole lot of paythos behind a lot of music and it was someone else's emotions.
01:21:00 --> 01:21:29 [SPEAKER_03]: to take that if you're Emily Armstrong and to try to embody the feeling of numb and the sort of like feeling societal pressure and lack of direction like what if she doesn't actually feel that way like part of being a musician and a performer as you play a character sort of so I'm sure she can pull that off but like it must change the meaning of it and the identity of the band being partially defined by its members and many bands have personality changes.
01:21:30 --> 01:21:34 [SPEAKER_04]: with hindsight, you realize that they were a lot of them were a cry for help.
01:21:34 --> 01:21:35 [SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of great.
01:21:35 --> 01:21:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So to perform them now, when we know the outcome, when we know how maybe hidden his troubles were, but he was very obtuse with them in his lyrics.
01:21:44 --> 01:21:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably very hard for the band to listen to that night after tonight, when it's like, oh, we should have heard it.
01:21:48 --> 01:21:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We should have helped him in intervened and God maybe he was getting help and maybe they did.
01:21:52 --> 01:21:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he was, right?
01:21:53 --> 01:21:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe his songwriting
01:21:56 --> 01:22:01 [SPEAKER_04]: for his mental illness and an outlet for it, which for many people it is, and that seems very healthy.
01:22:01 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_04]: But at the end of the day, the outcome was still the same outcome, and it must be very hard for me to listen to a song like, no, no, what happened to Jester?
01:22:11 --> 01:22:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:22:11 --> 01:22:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And thinking like, wow, he was in the rough spot.
01:22:14 --> 01:22:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And we were just singing along, you know?
01:22:17 --> 01:22:17 [SPEAKER_04]: literally.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And that is hard to listen to.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, the more I learned about Lincoln Park, like the better respect I had for the men's band, I honestly at the beginning of this episode, it was, I didn't really think much of them.
01:22:28 --> 01:22:31 [SPEAKER_04]: They seemed like an afterthought, and it's like genre that I never really got into.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:38 [SPEAKER_04]: But when you look at like the lineage of what they've all been through together, like they've all changed and grown so much over time.
01:22:38 --> 01:22:39 [SPEAKER_03]: A little more gravitas.
01:22:40 --> 01:22:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:22:40 --> 01:22:44 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like beautiful and lovely and like feels familial.
01:22:44 --> 01:22:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And to invite
01:22:47 --> 01:22:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And I bet a lot of bands have this experience.
01:22:49 --> 01:23:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I bet many, many people after a show or in fan mail or whatever have come up to maybe, just chest or at first, but maybe anybody in the band had been like, that song stopped me from killing myself, or it's say, got me through one of these songs, got me through the death of my spouse or whatever, and I did, thank you so much.
01:23:09 --> 01:23:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And
01:23:10 --> 01:23:35 [SPEAKER_03]: That's still true, even if the like sadness of certain songs are maybe too much for them now because they represent Chester, they also represent, I think, as popular as they are, and as heavy as some of their lyrics are, thousands of fans of their positive aspects to their mental health too, hearing this music or hearing Chester talk about being a victim of child abuse and things like that, that's in there too.
01:23:35 --> 01:23:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So as hard as it would be, let's say shadow of the day is really hard.
01:23:38 --> 01:24:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Shadow of the day probably triggers people to really positive things some people when they hear it that they're having to wrestle with the notion of what we won't play it and then we're also pulling that emotional adventure that other people share relationship the other people share that doesn't get to put because they lose ownership of it once it gets out in the world right especially when you're popular like they are so it's just complicated and
01:24:00 --> 01:24:05 [SPEAKER_03]: a new member of the band interacts with that in a different way than the old members did.
01:24:05 --> 01:24:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no matter what I do think you're pointing about fans and reaching out and saying, like, this song helped me, um, is really important.
01:24:13 --> 01:24:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that at the time in place that this music was written,
01:24:18 --> 01:24:32 [SPEAKER_04]: way youth that we're having trouble needed needed a team to be on and maybe like this is the team that they could be on and the people that they could identify with so much that it did become really costumed and really performative from certain perspectives.
01:24:32 --> 01:24:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll say, when we try on different roles, right, especially as a teenager, we do it in a way to signal to other people that we're like them.
01:24:42 --> 01:24:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if I go to a party and I wear a grateful dead shirt and I see someone else having a great, wearing a grateful dead shirt, I'm going to go talk to them and I know instantly like you.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Because you know both of your garbage people.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:53 [SPEAKER_03]: We're garbage people.
01:24:53 --> 01:25:09 [SPEAKER_04]: just so trashy garbage people for sure smell like particularly and you'll get me like you'll understand me we're like already fast forward a little bit except we've talked about how like that's student who came into my class wearing a sublime shirt and never heard them and stuff so like
01:25:09 --> 01:25:24 [SPEAKER_04]: there are probably grateful dead shirts worn by people that don't know the grateful dead but you're right yeah but you can tell like if you see someone wearing like a grody hold up rated tie-died dead shirt yeah with their sad point tell that i'm probably going to want to cut off with the pair of scissors right
01:25:24 --> 01:25:27 [SPEAKER_03]: nice shout out to season one.
01:25:27 --> 01:25:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're going to just get me and I don't have to like explain a lot of stuff like I can just go on and immediately be on the level with that person.
01:25:34 --> 01:25:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think if someone's wearing an old like a Lincoln park shirt from the early odds and you see that across the room, you're going to you get a sense of who that person is.
01:25:43 --> 01:25:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why costuming and identity development in that lesson is so important because it helps us find people that are like us.
01:25:52 --> 01:25:53 [SPEAKER_04]: and find connection.
01:25:53 --> 01:25:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And it helps you declare that.
01:25:56 --> 01:25:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:25:57 --> 01:25:59 [SPEAKER_04]: And like you can be your part of something.
01:25:59 --> 01:26:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And this seems like a pretty nice thing to have been part of for a lot of people because it probably gave them hope.
01:26:05 --> 01:26:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm really interested to know what that fandom thinks about this new singer.
01:26:10 --> 01:26:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And if there's like a split in the cohort.
01:26:14 --> 01:26:19 [SPEAKER_03]: People write in like if you've got updates on that, let us know some of you are Lincoln Park fans.
01:26:19 --> 01:26:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
01:26:21 --> 01:26:23 [SPEAKER_03]: If we can add on a little bit of a goofy note, just for fun.
01:26:24 --> 01:26:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought zero with an X is kind of a goofy original name.
01:26:27 --> 01:26:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't got it.
01:26:28 --> 01:26:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Zero, I don't know, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero.
01:26:31 --> 01:26:32 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's okay.
01:26:32 --> 01:26:34 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's not for adult pronunciation.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:26:35 --> 01:26:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I rounded up some.
01:26:37 --> 01:26:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I perceived goofy first draft band name for famous artists.
01:26:41 --> 01:26:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
01:26:41 --> 01:26:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Three, eleven fish hippos.
01:26:44 --> 01:26:44 [SPEAKER_04]: That's dumb.
01:26:44 --> 01:26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty bad.
01:26:45 --> 01:26:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Three, eleven's awesome.
01:26:50 --> 01:26:52 [SPEAKER_03]: What you knew that you're like saying it along you knew zoo crew.
01:26:52 --> 01:26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: They've heard that before.
01:26:54 --> 01:26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.
01:26:54 --> 01:26:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Beastie boys, young Aberrigenes.
01:26:57 --> 01:26:57 [SPEAKER_03]: That's stupid.
01:26:58 --> 01:27:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Be-be-be-be-be-be-be-be-be.
01:27:00 --> 01:27:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Brother Skim.
01:27:01 --> 01:27:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, but that's what that's the region.
01:27:02 --> 01:27:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I know.
01:27:03 --> 01:27:05 [SPEAKER_03]: We Johnny Hayes and the blue cats.
01:27:05 --> 01:27:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I like that actually Bloodhound gang bang chamber eight.
01:27:10 --> 01:27:11 [SPEAKER_03]: No, blondie.
01:27:11 --> 01:27:12 [SPEAKER_03]: We already talked about this.
01:27:12 --> 01:27:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, angel in the snake That's not goofy.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I just put it in because yeah, we are some dead every incorporation.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, bone thugs and harmony The band-aid boys
01:27:23 --> 01:27:33 [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, zero is better than all of these, but but I like the band-aid boys as a name, but bone thugs is iconic, you can't totally wish bone, t-bone, whatever.
01:27:33 --> 01:27:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Cold play, pectorals with a Z stuff like it's a gorilla's song.
01:27:40 --> 01:27:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, okay.
01:27:42 --> 01:27:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Faith no more.
01:27:43 --> 01:27:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Sharp young men.
01:27:45 --> 01:27:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Or like that.
01:27:46 --> 01:27:46 [SPEAKER_03]: It's fun.
01:27:46 --> 01:27:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Join the shop, young men.
01:27:47 --> 01:27:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Stiff kittens.
01:27:49 --> 01:27:50 [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's weird.
01:27:51 --> 01:27:52 [SPEAKER_04]: They're weird.
01:27:52 --> 01:27:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Pearl Jam, mooky blaylock.
01:27:55 --> 01:27:56 [SPEAKER_04]: No.
01:27:56 --> 01:27:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:27:56 --> 01:27:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It makes bad as much sense as Pearl Jam.
01:27:58 --> 01:27:58 [SPEAKER_03]: R.A.N.
01:27:59 --> 01:27:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Hornets attack.
01:28:00 --> 01:28:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It's so funny, too.
01:28:01 --> 01:28:03 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's like Hornets attack Victor mature.
01:28:04 --> 01:28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Something like that.
01:28:05 --> 01:28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Like what?
01:28:06 --> 01:28:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's our schemas are like mental maps around these.
01:28:10 --> 01:28:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, like, oh, that's so weird.
01:28:11 --> 01:28:14 [SPEAKER_04]: But if you, what was the BC boys?
01:28:15 --> 01:28:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Or like if we, no, let's talk about the band-aid boys, was that the bone thugs?
01:28:19 --> 01:28:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, like if you don't thugs and harmonies we always knew the crosswords by the band-aid boys right and then we're on this podcast And you're like they almost got them still bone thugs and hammer You like that's I have one that goes opposite here.
01:28:31 --> 01:28:33 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like disturbingly normal So don't double pilots.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I think of is like whenever I'm in a band trying to come up with a band name and someone says something and then I know it's too dumb.
01:28:39 --> 01:28:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like You think don't double pilots is a normal name.
01:28:42 --> 01:28:48 [SPEAKER_03]: They were sweet just swing swing just swing Silver chair the silly men
01:28:49 --> 01:28:51 [SPEAKER_04]: My friend used to tour with silver chair, like follow them around.
01:28:52 --> 01:28:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, man.
01:28:53 --> 01:28:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Like a chairhead.
01:28:54 --> 01:28:55 [SPEAKER_04]: A chairhead.
01:28:56 --> 01:28:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, like that's what they got.
01:28:57 --> 01:29:00 [SPEAKER_03]: The stone roses were the the angry young Teddy boys.
01:29:02 --> 01:29:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Sugar ray, shrinking dinks.
01:29:04 --> 01:29:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I like that.
01:29:05 --> 01:29:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Shrinky dinks.
01:29:06 --> 01:29:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And the last one I got, they might be giants.
01:29:08 --> 01:29:10 [SPEAKER_03]: El Grupo de Rock and Roll.
01:29:10 --> 01:29:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I like that too.
01:29:12 --> 01:29:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And you are not everyone has an easy time naming things.
01:29:15 --> 01:29:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, not like us with this podcast name.
01:29:19 --> 01:29:24 [SPEAKER_04]: It only took us like a minute to figure out what the name of our podcast should be and we nailed it on the first try.
01:29:24 --> 01:29:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, too bad AI wasn't more helpful.
01:29:27 --> 01:29:39 [SPEAKER_04]: We were in a faster.
01:29:42 --> 01:29:49 [SPEAKER_04]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchmail.com and give us a follow-in social media.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Nevermind the music is also part of the lower-hounds network.
01:29:53 --> 01:29:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Please join the conversation on their Discord server.
01:29:57 --> 01:29:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening.