Which songs just make you cringe? In this Sidetrack, the hosts share their top three songs with main characters that you really wouldn’t want to hang out with, whether they’re just awkward, or full-on evil. The most important rule, though: the songs have to be good! Check us out next week for a full episode!
Music heard in this episode: Oingo Boingo - “Little Girls”, Toadies - “Possum Kingdom”, The Police - “Don’t Stand So Close to Me”, The Postal Service - “Nothing Better”, Ariana Grande - “break up with your girlfriend, i’m bored”, Bryan Adams - “(Everything I Do) I Do It For You”, Lily Allen - “Smile”, Bobby McFerrin - “Don’t Worry, Be Happy”, Robin Thicke - “Blurred Lines (feat. T.I. & Pharrell)”, Usher - “Confessions, Pt. II”, “Weird Al” Yankovic - “Confessions Pt. III”, Sabrina Carpenter - “Tears”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think, I remember that, but I was nine years old too.
00:03 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember.
00:04 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_10]: I'm locked, man.
00:05 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_10]: But I think in the music video, there's, there's a button.
00:08 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_10]: Interpolation of him and the waterfalls.
00:12 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_10]: That's kind of an interpolation.
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't keep music.
00:14 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you, you can do whatever you want.
00:16 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_11]: A close.
00:16 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_11]: A broken glass right two times.
00:18 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_03]: If you use it wrong long enough, it'll just become correct.
00:32 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm Mark.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:33 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is Nevermind the Music.
00:35 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_10]: What are we talking about today, Mark?
00:37 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that how are we supposed to start the sidetrack?
00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that right?
00:40 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess.
00:40 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_03]: We're sidetracking because so many of our sidetracks lately that we've been doing have been guests.
00:45 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's the who are we talking, but there's nobody here.
00:48 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_10]: No.
00:48 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be bringing my dog downstairs.
00:50 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I love it.
00:51 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_10]: Sometimes I say, it's a sidetrack day.
00:53 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_03]: The sidetrack, yeah.
00:54 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_03]: We're still, we're still play testing that, everybody.
00:57 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_03]: But we just had our conversation about shaggy.
01:01 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_03]: We just had our conversation about one of the great, awful people as a character in a song, which is the main character of it, wasn't me by Shaggy, and we thought it would be fun, fun maybe in quotation marks.
01:16 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_03]: to talk about the most unlikable protagonists in music history.
01:22 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have no idea who you've got.
01:24 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_03]: We each said we would bring three songs.
01:26 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I have three songs.
01:27 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And each tried to have different kind of mini categories that we didn't share with each other.
01:34 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I gave myself rules for how I picked what what was in bounds.
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you do anything like that?
01:39 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Is this exemplifying our difference in work style?
01:42 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_10]: No, I just like pick songs that like I'd like the songs, but and even I like the singers, but that these songs made me like not like them that much.
01:52 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Like factor.
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:53 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is like the the door is moving, making me not like velkhailmer for a while.
01:55 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about it and we talked about
02:14 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So, do she characters and songs that I'm not five in with, don't count?
02:17 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
02:18 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I tried not to pick one where they're obviously playing a character, and this you could have completely gone into different direction with, but like, Oingo Boingo's little girls or Possum Kingdom, you know, he's like, little girls, he's like probably a pedophile and that song.
02:51 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a girl saying, make me feel so good.
02:55 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I love.
02:55 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Possum King to my totes.
02:56 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Love that song.
02:57 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He's playing some kind of a demonic.
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Good, like, that doesn't care.
03:00 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Like they're embodying some terrible thing.
03:18 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also try not to pick ones where the point of the song is how bad the person is.
03:30 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_03]: In a sense that, like, don't stand so close to me by the police.
03:33 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
03:34 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Is like about the agony of this guy who's the high school student is in love with him.
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, the point of that is for us to look at and be kind of grossed out by that.
03:44 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Inside, there's long.
03:51 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: She's so close now
04:04 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_03]: or nothing better by the postal service?
04:06 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know that song?
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
04:07 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know the postal service?
04:08 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_10]: I know the postal service.
04:09 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not one of their hits or whatever, but it's a duet.
04:12 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's one of those love duet kind of situations where a breakup duet, where the guy's verse is, how wrong, how could you leave us, right?
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And then here's what really happened is her verse.
04:22 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like the human league song, don't you want me, right?
04:26 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, actually you were a huge asshole.
04:49 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And so the point of the song is, oh my god actually he's such a huge asshole.
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
04:53 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_10]: You win for things that are more like nuanced and like it's up to interpretation more.
04:57 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe.
04:58 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
04:58 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I tried.
04:59 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yet I still included the song clips because they're cool songs, uh, podcast editors prerogative, I guess.
05:06 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_10]: And it's also seems from just from the examples you've just already pitched that you have more obscure songs than I do, minor very well-known, very pop songs.
05:16 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I have chosen no obscure songs.
05:19 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, that's not it.
05:21 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm using, wait, is don't stand so close to me and obscure songs?
05:24 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll go bowling go little girls.
05:26 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, obscure.
05:27 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
05:28 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know that song at all?
05:30 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
05:31 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, I love little girls.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_03]: They make me, oh my god.
05:33 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to play clip.
05:34 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.
05:35 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_11]: I think you just do use yourself.
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not even.
05:39 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not even how you should just actually try to do any of it.
05:42 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the girls they make me, this is a girl that's not, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I
05:54 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah, that's a good one.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It's about like a vampire.
05:58 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_03]: He's a murderous monster or demon or ghost or something.
06:01 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_10]: No, Mark, you talk about vampires a lot.
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_10]: You don't realize you do it.
06:05 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Once in the entire scope of our relationship, definitely counts as a lot.
06:09 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess.
06:11 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I have great songs, so I'm really ready.
06:13 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to go first?
06:14 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
06:15 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to kidchy category for this one?
06:17 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, I don't really have kidchy categories.
06:21 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_10]: I just, it's unlikable because it's like dishonest in a moral.
06:26 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like, okay, that's motion dishonest in the moral.
06:28 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_10]: Well, go ahead.
06:29 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_10]: I can come up with a Kitchie, a lot, I can, I can do it.
06:32 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_10]: This, a song by an artist that represents a self-concept that is so, I'm like the self-concept we relate to of this artist right now.
06:45 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really catchy kind of.
06:47 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it really.
06:48 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
06:48 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_10]: Um, that was good smooth.
06:50 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, can you say it again?
06:53 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Say that again, I didn't quite process that sort of question.
06:56 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_10]: I did different way.
06:57 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_10]: This song breaks the stereotype we have of this artist as a very likable, accessible person.
07:03 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_10]: Got it.
07:03 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
07:04 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_10]: Love it.
07:04 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_10]: So it's Ariana Grande, break up with your girlfriend on board, something more song.
07:10 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Break up with your girlfriend.
07:11 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_10]: I'm bored.
07:12 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm bored.
07:13 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_10]: That's the name of the song.
07:14 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_10]: Can we like pull up a clip of it?
07:39 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_10]: nice.
07:40 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_10]: It's a great song, like it's a great song, but it is gross and problematic and you don't like her.
07:48 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_10]: Like you don't see Glenn to the good witch here when she's singing the song.
07:52 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_10]: It's like a very different side of her and I don't like it.
07:54 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_10]: I want to feel empathy for Ariana Grande.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_10]: She's been through a lot with the Mac Miller stuff.
08:00 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_10]: Like I just want to
08:01 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_10]: like hold on to her and keep her safe and like a Cynthia Rivo sort of way.
08:06 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_03]: What if what if the other the girlfriend is Cynthia Rivo?
08:09 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that make it way worse?
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_10]: It was a way worse.
08:11 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_10]: Is there friends?
08:13 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they're like more than friends.
08:14 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what if the girlfriend your girlfriend is her sister or her best friend?
08:18 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
08:19 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you just, yeah.
08:20 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of happy.
08:21 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of happy.
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that is against type.
08:23 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_10]: There's this, like, this psychological layers of the song is really interesting to me too.
08:27 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_10]: There's like a lot of narcissistic entitlement that, like, the world and ego centers them, like, the world revolves around her consequences towards other people.
08:35 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_10]: Don't matter.
08:36 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_10]: Which is so, like, not Ari as a human.
08:39 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
08:39 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_10]: Say, Ari, because, like, we're close.
08:41 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_10]: Also, the song's interesting because of this meta-awareness, like it knows it's not likeable, and that's part of the bit I think, but still, it's just like an unlikable pro-tagness or unlikable storyteller in the song in a way that's so counter what we want Ariana Grande to be, which is like a little likable pixie.
09:00 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_10]: And this is not it, especially when you listen to the lyrics.
09:03 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_10]: Love it.
09:04 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's a cool song.
09:05 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_10]: It's a great song, it's a great pop song.
09:08 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, your word for okay, dude.
09:10 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Stop looking at me like that.
09:12 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Goes to Brian Adams, 1991, everything I do.
09:17 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_10]: I do it for you.
09:21 --> 09:22 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, good.
09:22 --> 09:22 [UNKNOWN]: Walk the left for you.
09:22 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's for you.
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_09]: You know it's true.
09:33 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_09]: Everything I do, I do it for you.
09:47 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
09:48 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's actually kind of a relatable sentiment, but it's just too much, man.
09:54 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_10]: It's too small to see for you.
09:55 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just too, like, you feel when he doesn't die for you.
10:00 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_03]: By the way, remember when I talked about the sad button on our mail bag?
10:04 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_03]: That is that chord, the minor for and die for.
10:06 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just so emotional.
10:09 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you feel like he actually kind of wants to.
10:12 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_10]: He wants to die for you and tell me I can.
10:15 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_03]: It's too much, it's too much, it's scary.
10:17 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_03]: It makes me, I would be scared if I was the presumably lady he's singing to, but also if I were his friend, I would be concerned.
10:25 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would be fine.
10:25 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think that's it, like if you were at the lady, I mean, this song came out I was nine years old.
10:30 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_10]: We're looking like Robin Hood.
10:33 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_10]: Prince of Peas, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
10:58 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_10]: like let's bring it in.
11:00 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah it's just to it makes him unlikable because it's like you fear for him but also it feels informative.
11:07 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah he's a waterfall he's like singing it you know in the music video.
11:12 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin Costner in the Waterfall.
11:14 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah it's Bryan also but yeah I think
11:17 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember that, but I was nine years old too.
11:19 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember.
11:21 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_10]: But I think in the music video, there's...
11:24 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_03]: There's some buttons.
11:24 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_10]: Interpolation of him and the waterfall.
11:28 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of an interpolation.
11:29 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't keep music.
11:30 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you can do whatever you want.
11:32 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_11]: A close.
11:32 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_11]: A broken glass, right?
11:34 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_11]: Two times.
11:34 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: If you use it wrong, long enough, it'll just become correct.
11:37 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
11:37 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of the interpretation of the bit.
11:40 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Good.
11:41 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_03]: That actually works.
11:57 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, you're a booty guy.
12:00 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I wish I had booty categories.
12:01 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_10]: You're so good at a booty categories.
12:04 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_10]: This is a likable, it's just so, it's a passive aggressive performance by a littlety, British singer songwriter.
12:11 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_10]: That's the best I can do.
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Dude, word goes too.
12:14 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_10]: Two, Lily Allen and Smile.
12:17 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Lily Allen, famously sister of Alfie Allen from Game of Thrones.
12:23 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
12:24 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_03]: The on-grade joy, that's his big sister.
12:30 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_10]: I loved him.
12:31 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_10]: He's the one that got his dick cut off, right?
12:33 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
12:35 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_03]: That's bad.
12:35 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the character.
12:37 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
12:37 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think I was like method.
12:39 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_03]: What's this song?
12:40 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Lily has to smile.
12:43 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Smile.
12:48 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_09]: It makes me smile, yeah it makes me smile I want stuff here but for a while But then I just smile, I'll go ahead and smile Whenever you see me Track 11 on this album It's such a cold, alphi, by the way
13:10 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_03]: track 11 on this album.
13:11 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, still a little healthy.
13:13 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Probably, it's not about the alien TV show, probably about her brother.
13:16 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_03]: That's cute.
13:17 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Cute.
13:18 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
13:18 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So tell me about this song.
13:19 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_03]: What makes it?
13:20 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_10]: I just like the juxtaposition of like the cheeriness and like the repressed anger.
13:24 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_10]: I like that as a convention in the song writing, but you don't really like her as a character.
13:31 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_10]: I like Lily Allen quite a bit.
13:33 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_10]: But as a character in this song,
13:35 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_10]: it just seems like this downward social comparison that feels yucky to me and that she's like celebrating someone else's misery even though he wronged her it just it isn't a good look and I had always stood out to me as being a song I liked I enjoyed the song but it didn't make me like lily out and anymore it seemed like for sure she should be better than that
13:58 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it just seemed like a cruel and unnecessary and just shrouded and Freudian, and I was like watching someone else suffer that I've never a big fan of.
14:07 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
14:07 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just interesting because the song is so light-hearted, that it's just like making light of someone else's misfortune, and I just disonify my really like.
14:17 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
14:17 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_10]: It's an empathetic.
14:18 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough moment.
14:18 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_10]: It's a tough moment, but a great song.
14:21 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_10]: and I'll stand by the whole album as so good.
14:23 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_10]: I listened to the whole album again like in preparation for this.
14:26 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying to like quote be more prepared quote be like mark more and like listen to the music.
14:33 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_10]: And I was reminded of like how awesome this whole album is and how talented Lily Allen is and how much I hate her in the song.
14:40 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_10]: So well it's been addictive like masquerade as empowerment is like vindictive nature.
14:46 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah it's just that's not empowerment
14:51 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, but not obviously a character right is it obviously a pesty sure a parody.
14:57 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know I don't know maybe more so that's it would fit my criteria right?
15:02 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, the okay Mark just learned about toxic positivity award And I don't remember what episode that was seal episode or something.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you explain what that probably
15:11 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And, 1988, talked about it before.
15:14 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Bobby McFare and don't worry, be happy.
15:30 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_02]: The landlord say your rent is lit He may have to lit ticket Don't worry Be happy Look at me, I'm not big
15:46 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So I know what we talked about, how body of fairness secretly amazing in another episode.
15:52 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_03]: But people hate on this song.
15:53 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I actually really like it.
15:54 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I like the kind of Akapela Rage vibe.
15:57 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really cool, but man.
16:00 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, you're a homeless, you're going to get evicted.
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever, don't worry.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry.
16:05 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Everything's going to turn out like this to me is super toxic positive.
16:08 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_03]: If you knew this guy,
16:10 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
16:10 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_03]: This guy would be intolerable because like you just you're getting a divorce.
16:14 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_03]: It's all good cheer up man.
16:16 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_03]: You'd be like bro My legs just got cut off.
16:19 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't tell me everything's gonna be good a little too much silver lining going on in this song Yeah, it's not real empathy any worry about people like that.
16:26 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I always worry about what are they hiding what's in there for real?
16:29 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_10]: What's like when they're alone?
16:30 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's like you can't confront the reality.
16:33 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_03]: It's too hard.
16:34 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you just like mask.
16:35 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah
16:36 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_10]: And I appreciate that.
16:37 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_10]: I think masking is an appropriate skill, but I feel like for the song.
16:42 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_10]: You need balance.
16:43 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_10]: You need balance.
16:43 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_10]: And it's unlikable because it's, it's so not like giving empathy to the human condition.
16:50 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_10]: Like, no, sometimes life is very hard.
16:53 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_10]: the end.
16:54 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Totally.
16:54 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_10]: It will stop.
16:55 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
16:55 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_10]: It.
16:56 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It.
16:57 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a few songs that I considered also for this category.
17:00 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I really wanted to do.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I really wanted to do.
17:02 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_03]: This was very much I've just learned about toxic positive.
17:04 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
17:04 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's do it.
17:05 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Float on by Monus mouse.
17:06 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
17:07 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I crashed into a cop car.
17:10 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever.
17:11 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But that song is just a little more nuanced than abstract.
17:13 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's less.
17:15 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_03]: It hits you less hard.
17:15 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And Farrell, happy.
17:18 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Except that I don't like that song.
17:20 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't like that.
17:21 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of don't like that.
17:22 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I like Ferrell.
17:23 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I like Ferrell.
17:24 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially as a producer.
17:25 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I- The hat's so great.
17:27 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of don't.
17:28 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got good hats.
17:29 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of don't love that song.
17:30 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it kind of didn't make the list.
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_03]: It would have been better if you'd like.
17:33 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_03]: It's one thing for me to not like the protagonist of a song that I don't love that much because it's easy to hate.
17:38 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
17:38 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm thinking of this more as like a villain you love to hate in a movie.
17:43 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
17:43 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And some people I think don't like, don't worry, be happy.
17:46 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_03]: But I do.
17:48 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_10]: And then thinking of like Bobby McFarron as a villain in the movie of toxic positivity, villain trope.
17:56 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's not a villain trope really yet.
18:00 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_03]: People should explore that.
18:01 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_10]: You can have that idea.
18:02 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_10]: It can take it.
18:03 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a character trope that kind of happy warrior or whatever, but like as the actual villain that what turns out to be the antagonist.
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you got
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You got one more.
18:14 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I have one more.
18:15 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_10]: So the next thing I have is I'm likable because it's of its portrayal of women wrapped in saran wrap in the music video.
18:23 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_10]: And I know we just talked about this about like copyright stuff.
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
18:28 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_10]: This isn't about the copyright stuff.
18:29 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_10]: This is about like the gross misogyny.
18:33 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_10]: Is it maybe this?
18:50 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You
18:55 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's so gross and you're just talking about Ferrell and how you don't like Ferrell like maybe I don't either because I'm like looking at him in this video just and I don't like Ferrell I just don't like that song like that song like Ferrell this adds Some information to that pile musically.
19:12 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I like this song too.
19:14 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I like it's pretty gross though Yeah, it's just it's very rapy.
19:18 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_10]: It's super rapy strong
19:21 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_10]: And yes, it's like the lack of awareness of how non-consensual it is.
19:27 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_10]: Like, they're so not even dialed in to the fact that it could be problematic.
19:32 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what's gross to me.
19:33 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So even understand.
19:35 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't then playing a character that's creepy.
19:37 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_03]: It's you think they just don't realize it's creepy.
19:39 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_10]: I think that they just don't have it like,
19:41 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_10]: come to realize that that is like very toxic, very inappropriate, very creepy, predatory behavior.
19:48 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_10]: Especially when you see like the video and they're like augling these girls that are naked in one version and then wrapped the edit is their wrapped in saran wrap to like be less risk-y.
19:56 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't mention this one last time.
19:59 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: When I sometimes I pull clips from Apple Music, sometimes I pull them from YouTube based on what the clip is.
20:04 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I pulled the clip for this song on the copyright conversation,
20:08 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh crap, this video is in my recent history now.
20:12 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And like, that's one of my kids opens up YouTube on my phone or something.
20:16 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, fuck, there's going to be Emily, whatever her name is, boobs or whatever.
20:20 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I'm like, for the female form is beautiful.
20:24 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_10]: There's no body shaming or no judgment here, right?
20:26 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_10]: Any means, but the fact that there are commodities to these two men that are very well dressed and just like watching them, they're only there for their male gaze.
20:38 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_10]: is right.
20:39 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_10]: I think gross.
20:40 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_10]: It's really, really gross.
20:41 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_10]: And I know that there's other things about the song from copyright and like musicality, but like it's just the social stuff here is so off-putting to me.
20:51 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_10]: And I want to like Ferrell.
20:52 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_10]: I want to like Robin Thick.
20:55 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_10]: Love to Alan Thick.
20:56 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_10]: You know, America's dad.
20:57 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_10]: And this is his son.
20:59 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_10]: You're Robin Thick.
21:02 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's throwing pee.
21:07 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_10]: That are another one.
21:08 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Jen Axe is right in.
21:09 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll fix it after though for sure.
21:12 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
21:13 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's in Epo Baby Robin.
21:15 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Robin.
21:15 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe.
21:15 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
21:16 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything about it.
21:16 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Except for this song and the copyright stuff, honestly.
21:19 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_10]: And he had like abuse allegations and like his ex wife.
21:23 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_10]: Like said first things.
21:24 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_10]: But like there's a whole character.
21:25 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_03]: He's a whole thing.
21:26 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_10]: He's a whole thing that I want to like the song.
21:29 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_10]: But it's just so off.
21:30 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I feel like I don't want to like the song.
21:32 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I like the song musically.
21:34 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't want to.
21:35 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's you know, I don't want to.
21:36 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it just doesn't understand that women are three-dimensional.
21:41 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
21:41 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_10]: And that's a drag.
21:43 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that understands that there are three-dimensional and the visual stuff.
21:46 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, I've heard of three-dimensional, but not in like the human sense.
21:50 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, curvy, yes.
21:52 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I guess.
21:53 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, all humans have three-dimensions to them.
22:08 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So, so, my last one.
22:10 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
22:12 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The award for Bro, are you even listening to yourself?
22:15 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Goes to Usher for Confessions Part Two.
22:19 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Another song I love.
22:39 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_03]: You know the song, right?
22:40 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_10]: I don't, but I know the lyrics are.
22:44 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, this song is so good.
22:46 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_10]: I know like into usher.
22:47 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_10]: I never like, I like usher, I think.
22:50 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_03]: This song is so good.
22:51 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's from 2004.
22:52 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got a bunch of hits before that, but this has had several like caught up or whatever is on that record.
22:57 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_03]: But the album is Confessions, and there's Confessions Part One, which is a different song.
23:01 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
23:02 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_03]: If the beginning, where he's talking about, I'm admitting to you that I'm cheating on you, and then Confessions Part Two later in that same album, he finds out that the girl is pregnant.
23:11 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh gosh.
23:12 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_10]: And so just so what happens?
23:15 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_03]: What happens is there's a part three that's a weird alperity.
23:18 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard the, it's him apologizing for all the other crappies done?
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, by the way, I wasn't really sick last week.
23:26 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't want to go to your stupid office picnic.
23:28 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and when I told you it breakfast, we were all out of rice crispies.
23:32 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_00]: What I meant was there was only enough left for me, sorry.
23:37 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing that makes it so douchey, what happens?
23:39 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, there's no part three for sure.
23:41 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_10]: I should have had that cut-up, you're like, I'm ready.
23:43 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course.
23:43 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_03]: That happens to you.
23:45 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_03]: The thing that sucks about, like, okay, you cheated on your, we've established that that's kind of villainous behavior.
23:50 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's not, if it's not a pre-ranged agreement or whatever.
23:53 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing about it is that he feels so, and by the way, this is,
23:58 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_03]: like more based on one of the co-authors in the producer, or less, or sure is actual life, so usures, kind of playing a character, but it's sort of I about, biographical from the writer's perspective.
24:08 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_03]: He acts like he's doing this noble thing by admitting it.
24:13 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_05]: As if, let's listen to the bridge, this sort of talking part near the end again.
24:32 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_05]: And hopefully you'll give me another chance.
24:37 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he is.
24:38 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_10]: He does deserve an award.
24:39 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_03]: He's asking man for like credit for coming clean.
24:43 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He's probably been ready caught right hand.
24:45 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe no world.
24:46 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_03]: He's sort of in the sense that he has a baby on the way.
24:48 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_03]: He kind of has to admit it.
24:49 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, could you at least give me credit that a man enough to tell you?
24:52 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, asshole.
24:53 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's narcissistic.
24:54 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_10]: He was like had my sympathy.
24:56 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_03]: He has my sympathy until that point in the song.
24:58 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's asking for points for coming clean.
25:01 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, well, admitted I cheated on the task.
25:04 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Could I get get get to redo?
25:06 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I knew that you stay eye or just don't do the things.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_10]: Just do the thing.
25:09 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, I don't know.
25:11 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that song, but O.M.G.
25:14 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Pun intended.
25:15 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_03]: He's really douchey.
25:16 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_10]: You know what's funny about all six of our choices that they all deal with love or sex or like, yeah, relationships.
25:24 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, not the toxic positivity.
25:25 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, but that's the only one.
25:27 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_10]: I tried to find one that wasn't necessarily like think that of, I didn't even recognize that.
25:32 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_10]: I wasn't trying to.
25:33 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of songs are about that and I think a lot of human fault lies in relationships and how you treat romantic partners or perspective romantic partners.
25:44 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So, and those songs get out.
25:48 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
25:48 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_10]: I think there are a lot of songs about like, my husband turning my car on, so it warmed us up when he leaves for the day, so I don't have to.
25:55 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And if he did songs about,
25:58 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Mike has been wrecked my car and I'm so mad at him people would even think it was funny or they would think it was made up or something like that people believe the romantic crimes more than they must for talking like end-w-a-layer experts like literal crimes you're describing on my mind.
26:14 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if people watch on to it.
26:15 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_10]: I wonder if they're Ben and he's songs I can't think of any but you have a better mental catalogue than me for sure.
26:22 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_10]: of like good role models and romantic relationships like I love my husband does all the laundry for the whole family every other day Is there a song about that?
26:31 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about about that.
26:32 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a song about like how I'm really male-prept all the food for the family yesterday I think there are a lot of positive romantic songs, but there aren't a lot of positive portrayals of the day today.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you get through it as a partner?
26:45 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_03]: there's a lot of grant you think like the romcom thing there's a lot of grand gestures but the romcom ends after the grand gesture it doesn't show the like here's how we got through the conversation about dishonesty with our eight-year-old daughter right like whatever like no it was it's about the grand moments and not about who does the meal prep for lunch next and it's a
27:07 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_10]: Like, do that.
27:08 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_10]: See, Britney Carpenter actually has a song.
27:10 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_10]: As much as I don't like, Britney Carpenter.
27:12 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_10]: I know a new album about just like doing dishes, gets her sexually watching a man like clean the house.
27:19 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_07]: That's it for her.
27:40 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of people probably relate to that.
27:43 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_03]: But even then, though, that's not, that's not real, though, either, right?
27:46 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_03]: In the sense that, like, as much as it would be, we've talked about, I like doing sure, I like doing dishes.
27:51 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_03]: That's my tour.
27:53 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be really fun if that got my wife all excited.
27:56 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But at the end of the day, it's got to get done every day.
27:59 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's can't be a practical motivation for doing that.
28:02 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Or it can't be a practical expectation.
28:05 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it just needs to be done, you know?
28:07 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Amy, maybe else on this, how do we wrap this up?
28:09 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a way we can spin it at academia or podcasting?
28:13 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I do think like in our jobs, I find myself sometimes I have to be an unlikable teacher for my students to get the job done.
28:24 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_10]: Like do you ever have a class that turns against you?
28:26 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have every group like in your pocket, but there's just one group that like they there's a lot of chatter in the new walk in the room and all the chatter stops?
28:34 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I can think of one key when I was an adjunct faculty.
28:37 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Years ago in California class turned against me.
28:39 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And I actually learned a hell of a lot in that moment.
28:42 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you do learn a lot there about like I'm very casual in class, but when the class turns against me, I tend to get a little bit tougher on them, and then they learn more because I'm a little bit tougher and more rigid with them, and it's interesting to like play into that trope of being the villain.
29:00 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_10]: and get really stern with groups so they learn more, um, let them give them reasons to make up stories about you that are unlikable.
29:09 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_10]: I kind of play into the villain trope sometimes as a teacher and I think it can be really effective in moments if you do it mindfully interesting.
29:15 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe that's what these artists are doing.
29:17 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_10]: Is like Ariana Grande, she might not be a villain but she's like playing into this villain trope.
29:22 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
29:22 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like our personality types are different enough that I feel like I start my teach freaking music theory.
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I talk loud.
29:30 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I talk fast.
29:31 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of an imposing dominating personality in a lot of ways when I'm on stage in the classroom.
29:36 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Like me playing up the villain isn't going to go right.
29:39 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's almost I have to actually lean towards the opposite usually, but I find there are some cases professionally where I feel like I'm almost forced into that character role like this this happened not that long ago.
29:51 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I give extra credit for students to attend certain school function like recitals go support the choir or whatever, but there are some things I don't give extra credit for because it's like no, just go go to this.
30:02 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I encourage you.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And I had this this wasn't that long ago.
30:04 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a student in one of my classes come up and like grade grubby, big, big, big that curbing at this particular event would get extra credit, but she did it in a way that was like in front of everybody and performative that I felt like any amount of me considering and going, you know what, all right, sure I'll give you a little extra credit for being here.
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I absolutely had to be like hard ass.
30:27 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_03]: That was, it was so bizarre that she was making this big show in front of other professors other students that I was like, the, I had to be like, the syllabus says I had to be like, and she was like really frustrated with me and I'm like, just think like any chance that I,
30:44 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_03]: could have been like, you know what?
30:46 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, fine.
30:47 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_03]: She took that power away from me by doing this big gesture in front of other students in that class, and her, and I'm not saying like sneaky, sneaky, but I felt like my hand, and I'm like, I kind of look like a hard ass to the other teachers that are at this recital, but on the other hand, like the alternative.
31:05 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_03]: is I look like someone who cows to this great grubber in front of everybody.
31:10 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really shaboxed me in.
31:11 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really annoying.
31:12 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_10]: And he's that is annoying.
31:13 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_10]: And I think students...
31:15 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_10]: don't know that they're doing that when they do stuff like that, that they're like painting you into a corner that you have to become villainous, but it happens quite often that like you need to you need to save phase or on safe face, but just have a certain persona around your bosses and your colleagues that show that your academic integrity.
31:36 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_10]: When if she just came up to you and was like, hey, my grades really suffering, like, and really humble about it.
31:41 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_10]: Like, can I get an
31:45 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_10]: But then it becomes, if you say yes, to her, you have to say yes to everybody, right?
31:49 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_10]: That's my point of view.
31:50 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, no, I think that, you know, sometimes I'm learning that you're the villain in someone else's story, and there's really not much you can do about that.
32:01 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_10]: And that has to be okay.
32:03 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_10]: and that took me a lot of growth to realize like as such like a people pleasing person that for some students you are that awful teacher that gave them enough that time right when you had so much going on in your life and they just didn't understand and like that's it you have to be okay with it one time a dual enrollment student failed in my class yeah that's tough that means that's a high school student who is only allowed to take classes at
32:32 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_03]: They deserved enough.
32:34 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_03]: They earned the F. I did not give them an F. Right.
32:36 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_03]: They earned the F. That has real consequences possibly that will The college, the university or whatever, they might actually transfer when they're as after they're senior year might look very not positively on that F when they probably would have gotten a B or whatever if they just taken a high class.
32:52 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_03]: did the work and I am the bad guy and that person's narrative and that sucks and I felt really terrible about clicking that button for the final grade but like I have to have some kind of dignity and I'm not there were intervention points this was something that I tried to
33:13 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_10]: There's nothing you can do to change that person's narration.
33:16 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_10]: We're all unreliable narrators of our own story.
33:19 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_10]: And you just kind of have to lean into it.
33:22 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, students, if you're going to grade grab, do it privately.
33:29 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
33:33 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I also produce.
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33:55 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.