What did Uncle Joey do to make someone this mad? This week, our hosts tackle Alanis Morissette’s 1995 breakup anthem “You Oughta Know.” Mark tries to draw a straight line between the intensity of Alanis’s emotions and how unhinged the song’s rhythms are… before taking an opportunity to majorly over-share on mic. Nichole takes us through the four levels of anger…. the higher the better?
Other music heard in this episode: The Clash - “Should I Stay or Should I Go”, Juice WRLD - “Used To”, Fran Jeffries - “It Had Better Be Tonight”, Bruno Mars - “I Just Might”, Alanis Morissette - “Your House”, Alanis Morissette - “Too Hot”, Alanis Morissette - “All I Really Want”, Alanis Morissette - “Everything”, Alanis Morissette - “Underneath”, Dua Lipa - “IDGAF”, Carole King - “It’s Too Late”, Chappell Roan - “My Kink is Karma”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_02]: They broke up.
00:01 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_02]: They never really talked about why, but was his next partner publicly.
00:07 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And know the vision of me, like is it some, some brandette that's five years older than her.
00:13 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_02]: No, but there is a line in that song that made Dave Clea recognize all the songs about me.
00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
00:21 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner.
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Do it right, though.
00:25 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner.
00:28 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Dinner.
00:29 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was two James Headfield.
00:32 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it do?
00:32 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay, we're not right.
00:45 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is Nevermind the Music.
00:48 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
00:50 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We are talking about a Lannis Morris Sets 1995 jam.
00:56 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You ought to know.
00:57 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm here to remind you of the best you left when you went away.
01:06 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_05]: It's not fair to deny me of the cross.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm fair that you gave to me.
01:19 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:20 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So the song is generally considered a anthemic in your song.
01:25 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I feel, I feel the rage and anger I do when I listen to it.
01:30 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Does it feel appropriate that we just spent 15 minutes before I clicked record?
01:36 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: venting about higher ed bullshit.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
01:40 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_01]: At least one of us quite angry, despite it being notably everybody, summer when this stuff is not supposed to happen.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are we angry?
01:48 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Why are we angry?
01:49 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're the whole gig is to not be angry over the summer.
01:52 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We should not be angry over the summer, but can we channel that?
01:56 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: in some conversation about maybe Dave Kooley here.
02:00 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm absolutely absolutely absolutely at it.
02:02 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We are also angry about, and this song, you know, I think it's maybe some of it's success attributed to that trophy of being the angry song, but also some, you know, pigeon holding maybe of a lannus that we can talk about.
02:15 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But can we get this out of the way?
02:18 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Audra.
02:19 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_02]: What's?
02:20 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Audah.
02:21 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Audah.
02:22 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Spell it for me.
02:23 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, hot too.
02:24 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing.
02:25 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this, this whole came up, this, this side quest here is about the spelling, about the word, Audah, because when I'm looking up this song, I was struck by not only how do I spell more a set.
02:38 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's the top one.
02:40 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_02]: There's lots of S and T's and stuff, yeah.
02:42 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And how many R's is it?
02:43 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:44 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And they get one R. But Aada, I had to learn.
02:47 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: What the hell is Aat?
02:50 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Aat too.
02:51 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Is Aat a right?
02:52 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We get it.
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's slang, right?
02:55 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Shoulda coulda.
02:56 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: What is Aat?
02:57 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: In psychology, Aat actually has a very specific definition.
03:01 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it has a very specific definition in English, too.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But I had to look up, like what?
03:07 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the word ought?
03:09 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_02]: What is the word ought?
03:12 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_02]: In psychology, we could talk about the ought self, which is the version of yourself that's defined by do-dees and obligations and responsibilities.
03:21 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the most responsible version of you was like the ought self.
03:24 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So, oh, that's cool.
03:25 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's very much related to the word ought, right?
03:27 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, for sure.
03:28 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So, ought apparently is a modal auxiliary verb.
03:31 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know?
03:32 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't know, no.
03:33 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a confusing Wikipedia definition.
03:37 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So not quite the AI definition, but not much better.
03:41 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Della research turns here.
03:43 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a subset of English auxiliary verbs.
03:46 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So like have like I have had to, I think that would be an auxiliary, right?
03:50 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Use mostly to express modality.
03:53 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: which is, I guess, like, possibility or obligation, right?
03:57 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So they can most easily be distinguished from other verbs by their defectiveness.
04:04 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_01]: and by their lack of an ending of ES for the third person single.
04:08 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what modality is nor defectiveness.
04:10 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think these words don't have inherent meaning.
04:13 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it doesn't mean something, but it suggests a level of possibility, right?
04:18 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So in the same way that should means possibility of a thing that is implying that person.
04:26 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: it would be a good thing for them to do it, right?
04:29 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So why am I bringing all this up aside from the fact that I had to, so look up how to spell it.
04:35 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Do these words make interesting song titles?
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's tricky.
04:39 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You ought to know, I mean, I'm spelling it in my notes, way off base.
04:44 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no new GH.
04:45 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm like add, I like five T's in this order, like it's crazy.
04:49 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think what's interesting for these words,
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: modal auxiliary verb.
04:53 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_01]: English professors, English majors, right, and I think they have a value judgment from the writer.
05:00 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
05:00 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, it's suggest a should suggest priorities of the writer.
05:06 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Might.
05:08 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_01]: like I may.
05:08 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I might suggest priorities and value judgments.
05:12 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So here are my top five song titles with English modal auxiliary verbs in the title.
05:18 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting so tired of lists.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe too many.
05:23 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to do.
05:24 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's one more side track we probably should do it list, but anyways, this is short.
05:29 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a intro rant.
05:30 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
05:31 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_01]: List.
05:32 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
05:32 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I am excluding the modal auxiliary verbs will can do must or need.
05:39 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Excluding excluding I just feel like I will do this or do come on like I can't even how my supposed to search Apple music for song titles with the word do and it's just too much right and dare dare is a modal exhaust I dare not do like dare not but it's just too confusing because there's too many song titles with dare in it that means kind of the noun of dare okay right so here's my five shall
06:06 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So, sorry, shallow doesn't count, right?
06:08 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing that.
06:09 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, okay.
06:10 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going with the preterant version of SHOW.
06:15 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: SHOW.
06:15 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_02]: SHOW.
06:16 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: SHOW.
06:16 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: SHOW.
06:17 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I should have, right?
06:19 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And here we go.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Should I stay or should I go?
06:22 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: 1982.
06:23 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This is it twice.
06:25 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's double.
06:34 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: If you say that you are mine, I'll be here till the end of time.
06:43 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So you got to let me know, should I stay or should I go?
06:50 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Shall I stay or shall I go?
06:52 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Shall I stay or shall I go?
06:53 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on for a little fancy.
06:56 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I like this one, this is of course the clash, right?
06:59 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I like this because there is a judgment to this should I, but it's internal, he's not judging anybody else.
07:06 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's me.
07:07 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Should I stay or should I go like that?
07:09 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, used, like used to.
07:12 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
07:12 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: If dare was hard to find this one similarly kind of hard to make sense.
07:17 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: but with used to it works right so this is juice world used to 2018 got some emo wrap in our episode today.
07:44 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing I like about that.
07:46 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so shout out for salt people listening to this podcast on SoundCloud.
07:51 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have a SoundCloud page?
07:52 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, because that's an email or email wrap crowd, right?
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it?
07:55 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
07:56 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's 2010's email wrap is very much like SoundCloud.
08:00 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's an added reduction to what I just said.
08:03 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I do like the express like that it's over.
08:08 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I do it.
08:09 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_01]: What I appreciate about that is how he works in use you as used to like he's kind of not what I'm used to and as bad as it used to like he's using different verbs or different uses of the word all right number three had better had better that's a weird modal auxiliary I would say he's almost like slang I had better I had better do this right better.
08:34 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So... Nineteen 63, the theme to the Pink Panther film, which is called It It Better Be Tonight.
08:42 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Henry Mancini, wrote it performed by Fran Jeffries.
09:00 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_05]: If you're ever gonna love me,
09:04 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_05]: It has better be too nice While the mandolin's offlaying And stars are so bright
09:19 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I never, I feel like all of this podcast work is really preparing me to be on Jeopardy one day because like that's like an iconic Jeopardy question, like what's the title of that?
09:28 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and everything.
09:29 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Ever you just be like, Dada, I'm Tada on the Panther theme, right?
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_02]: No, but it is.
09:33 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It had better be tonight.
09:34 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, yeah.
09:36 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_02]: See, and thanks to you, I know these things.
09:37 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so.
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Number four.
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_01]: May.
09:40 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, that's a tricky one.
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Predator, it's more interesting.
09:43 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going with Mike.
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Bruno Mars 2020.
09:47 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Six.
09:47 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Very new.
09:48 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
09:48 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I just might.
10:09 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Bruno Mars is one of my favorite like pop acts for sure.
10:13 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:13 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about live.
10:14 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever seen him live?
10:16 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
10:16 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_02]: You would love it.
10:17 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sure.
10:18 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so much energy.
10:20 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like how that one's kind of all set up.
10:21 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He spends like so much of the song talking about the things that, you know, she wants to make him want to do.
10:27 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then at the end, he's just like reduced to.
10:29 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I just might, I just might make her my baby.
10:31 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's kind of underwhelming in the end.
10:32 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:32 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of works.
10:33 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The set up works.
10:35 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And number five, I don't know.
10:38 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a five.
10:38 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Number five is odd.
10:40 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: This is perfectly judging.
10:42 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You ought to, is very aggressive.
10:44 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And she repeats you, you, you three times.
10:48 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Auto really goes by fast.
10:50 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_01]: The modal auxiliary isn't there, but we get the right emotion.
10:56 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm a mess, you and I swear, you and I swear, it's not fair Do the name, yeah, all the cross I feel I check it to me, yeah
11:14 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also like, I think if it's like a low level word, like she's not saying you ought to know, she's saying you ought to know.
11:21 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's like, she's looking down on this person, like they're too dumb to understand like a high level.
11:27 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_02]: She can't spend the time to take the same action.
11:30 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_02]: She's so mad, she can't even be bothered to like have polished grammar.
11:35 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
11:36 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Oh, Anna's more a set.
11:37 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Who I maybe didn't have to look up the spelling of, but.
11:42 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: it is one R2S and two T's.
11:44 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I associate this with eighth grade.
11:46 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the wall era.
11:48 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a million percent.
11:49 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually feel like for me at least in my MTV watching hand and pocket was a little more ever present.
11:55 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I liked that.
11:56 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: feel like I saw that song, I heard that song.
11:59 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This one more I associate with radio.
12:01 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was very much an MTV guy back then.
12:05 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So handed pocket I feel like was even more exposed.
12:08 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Even on this album, there was like a bonus track at the end, that if you let the last track play, it was like an extra song.
12:14 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But I can't recall what that it just came to me now.
12:18 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I just had this like flash bulb memory of like this extra song at the end.
12:21 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was beautiful.
12:23 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like soft and tender and beautiful and such and a shift from you want to know.
12:30 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_02]: am I completely wrong?
12:32 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the the last regular song is wake up, but then there's a hidden track of you ought to know why don't I not remember that version.
12:40 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There's another version of of you ought to know and then an Occupella track your house.
12:45 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:46 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So wow.
12:46 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good memory.
12:47 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, just listen to this album.
12:48 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I see?
12:49 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I?
12:50 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, like what did you listen to this CD and I wonder if it's on Spotify?
12:54 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it like listed as a track?
12:55 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this is why albums need to make it come back and like actual tactical albums.
13:01 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But you listen to beginning to end and this is what we're missing in this TikTok generation of music.
13:08 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I was prepping for one of our upcoming episodes in Hidden Tracks came up also.
13:11 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of like maybe we're going to have to talk about them in a future crap with that be another list though, maybe we don't want to do that.
13:19 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that if you're listening like right in the discord or email us of like hidden tracks and songs because this is the only one I really know.
13:28 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for reminding me of that because it's a beautiful music wake up just ends the album.
13:34 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no hidden track.
13:35 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no other version of you want to know with the Akapela.
13:39 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll pipe it in somehow.
13:41 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I can find it on YouTube.
13:42 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, your house is also referred to as when do you forgive me love?
13:46 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
13:46 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you yeah.
13:47 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.
13:48 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I can like hear it in my head.
13:50 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_05]: And I played your job.
13:55 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_05]: I should have stayed long, you might be awesome, I should have stayed long, would you forgive me love, if I didn't sin your shower, would you forgive me love, if I lay in your bed, would you forgive me love?
14:20 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_05]: If I stay out left to knew, that's why they wouldn't include it.
14:32 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you forgive me love?
14:33 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so beautiful.
14:35 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting too when you think of you what I know is like a rage, scorned lover song to parallel it with this occapella beautiful soft.
14:46 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you forgive me love track?
14:48 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:49 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: it like really closes the loop in the conversation of like a lover scorned and like the whole like arc of overcoming and recovering from fails relationships.
14:58 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really interesting like the narrative of this album.
15:02 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That right and you ought to know is early.
15:04 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like what the second track is something we're going to bring this album really brings you through journey in a way that a lot of modern albums don't.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like.
15:12 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
15:13 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We, um, I wouldn't call it a concept album or definitely.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the story.
15:18 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to turn to like a narrative arc of an album.
15:22 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally totally.
15:23 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So this song.
15:25 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember which one we recently talked about that this was the situation with, but not eligible for the charts, top 40 charts, because it was one of those that was not officially a single.
15:36 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So ironic was that one hit number four.
15:38 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_01]: This feels like her signature song, but actually technically not a single.
15:44 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that she was a dance pop artist when she was a teen?
15:47 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_01]: This is her third album.
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I think of this as her first, for you and I, creators or whatever, was like, it was her first album functionally.
15:54 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But in Canadia, she had multiple albums and 1991, she's like 17 or something like that.
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a video of it.
16:04 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She was 21 by the way when Jack a little pill came out, which is crazy considering how like sort of mature the songwriting is and the the lyrics she was 18 when she got together with Joey Gladstone.
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, there's 18.
16:17 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_02]: He was 33.
16:18 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, and a divorce.
16:19 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
16:20 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: How to talk about it.
16:21 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
16:21 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's two on this is from her first album.
16:23 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
16:28 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Got you, hot dog, man, let's be young, man, let's do it, hold it, you gotta go for it, go, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it,
16:52 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_01]: No idea, but I kind of doubt it.
16:54 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, never too young, never too old.
16:56 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I feel like I can be too young.
16:59 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I can be.
17:00 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like you can be too old for certain things.
17:02 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So this album is buried.
17:04 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not on streaming.
17:05 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I googled, is Alana Smorset's first album on streaming.
17:08 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Google auto complete when I got to Isilana's Morse said, gave me still alive.
17:16 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of them.
17:16 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, that was the first choice.
17:18 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Second choice.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Isilana's more set married.
17:20 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:21 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Isilana's isilana's more set Canadian.
17:23 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes.
17:25 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
17:26 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Isilana's more set in fallout.
17:28 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you watched her?
17:29 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Is she in fallout?
17:30 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she's in fallout.
17:31 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think she's in fallout.
17:33 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I watched it.
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I do know she was on, you can't do that on television when she was 11 years old.
17:36 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God.
17:37 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That was like her mainstream debut before the pop.
17:40 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you watch that?
17:41 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember it.
17:43 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the Nickelodeon show where like if you say, I don't know they drop slime on your head.
17:46 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
17:46 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a sketch comedy.
17:48 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, um, and then that's like after double dare.
17:51 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Double dare is where the slime comes from.
17:52 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: There's been 10 Korean years, I think.
17:58 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was basically like SNL but with kids, and if anybody in the cast ever said I don't know they would get And then it became like transition to all that which was like the after hours.
18:10 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I don't think I saw that one Do you know that in the last more sets of twin?
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I didn't know that.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Another twin.
18:16 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about some twins before.
18:17 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_02]: No, never knew.
18:18 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Never knew until today.
18:20 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the whole teen star thing did not sound like a good experience.
18:25 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:25 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if she ever placed those songs live.
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine that, like with the entertainment, with like a folk rage treatment.
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen the jagged duck?
18:34 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember if it's on Netflix or HBO.
18:37 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those.
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty good duck about this.
18:40 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I don't need to get into too much detail, but it does sound like it was, it sucked.
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: The team's directing sucked.
18:45 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, we are.
18:47 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_01]: She developed an eating disorder because her weight was being criticized by the producers and all that kind of stuff.
18:54 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting because when she finally kind of gets her own power and becomes her own artist, which we can talk about Glen Ballard's role in all that.
19:01 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Like her band, like she has a real band kind of that are like her band, but they're kind of like scoundrels, like they're like sleeping around and probably doing drugs and like they are kind of
19:12 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's weird like she's finally like got her own like thing and these guys.
19:17 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
19:17 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel bad for these guys also because like they're they were a rock band, but no, it's the awareness more set show like they're the backing man, but yet they're kind of like, I don't know.
19:24 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting.
19:26 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I like the red also that flee in Dave Navarro had like a role in shaping this track.
19:33 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're they're playing on this.
19:34 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, they're scoundrel adjacent.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe.
19:37 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
19:37 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I think that the album was recorded and then some of the guys were brought in to be her like band like touring.
19:44 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So this album iconic for the era owes a lot to her collaboration with Glenn Ballard.
19:50 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So a songwriter that she met when she moved to LA to kind of restart her music career and they co-wrote the entire album.
20:00 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: and he seems like a cool guy like nothing from this retrospective doc showed him as anything but really helping her find her voice and she had these incredible song ideas that people were ignoring and things like that and he he had previously wrote man in a mirror a core wrote it hold on for Wilson Philip love that song that's my teaching anthem oh yeah
20:22 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were going to, I was floating ideas to do that for season two.
20:25 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll do it in the future.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great song.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_02]: It like gets me through the hard days in the classroom.
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on for one more day.
20:32 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh gosh.
20:34 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's summer when you're still having drama, but it's not the students fault right now.
20:38 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I wish it was, I, yeah, whatever.
20:40 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
20:52 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: this song got rocks on the beer and this song really does rock like in the era I don't know that I recognized it as much because there was stuff that was just so loud out on the radio but when you listen back this is not like singer songwriter fair.
21:06 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an alt rock like pretty hard hitting song and of course Dave Navarro from Jane's addiction and later briefly the chili peppers and flee from the chili peppers are playing on this.
21:18 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of those situations where K-Rock, K-R-O-K-U from L-A started playing it randomly, and it just took off.
21:26 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So longest female artist atop the modern rock chart, which she did qualify for.
21:32 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
21:33 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_01]: until 2013 when Royals by Lord.
21:36 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, weird.
21:37 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a long time.
21:39 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_02]: This song is so timeless.
21:41 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's still used in like an anthemic in like cinema and like TV as something to show like female rage.
21:48 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Prototypical angry ex-lovers on possibly about Dave Koolie, Joey Gladstone, cut it out from full house.
21:57 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: What is it?
21:57 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to talk about
21:58 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: rhythm, especially syncopation, kind of the sequel to our Cindy Lopper time after time, episode, where do you want to go with this conversation?
22:08 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I have two directions.
22:10 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_02]: The first I'd like to address now just to get it off the table is the Dave Kulea of it all.
22:15 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I want to talk about how we interpret anger and like using music as catharsis and different
22:23 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_02]: ways that anger passes through our body.
22:25 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So my my whole deal with syncope is how to syncopation and does syncopation change based on the level of anger of the leader.
22:33 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So why don't you get the gossip bullshit out of the way?
22:37 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I've said bullshit.
22:38 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't swear as much as you on on the pod and I'm I'm I'm I'm feeling it
22:43 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I am, you know, it's good.
22:45 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm having a pretty low conflict summer.
22:51 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how nice for me.
22:56 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that.
22:57 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll talk about syncopation and that'll be nice setup for you to kind of bring us to the range, the psychology of range.
23:04 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so
23:05 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Uncle Joey.
23:07 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_02]: A lovable guy.
23:08 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're not going to say bad things.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We're Uncle Joey.
23:11 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I think of the do you have family friends that went by on color aunt for you when you like growing up or current loud you have like
23:21 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: From here is that you have calls and to you.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
23:24 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
23:24 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they are like my best friends that have been like sisters my whole life or for others my whole life.
23:31 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, like there's a couple.
23:33 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not as quirky as Uncle Joey.
23:36 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no puppets involved.
23:38 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't live in the back of the list.
23:39 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't live in the Alcove, which is like, can we do better for Uncle Joey?
23:43 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's no other place we could have done.
23:45 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen those narrow San Francisco houses.
23:48 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I get it, but like, that's a nice house.
23:50 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's it.
23:51 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are $4 million.
23:52 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, like there's got to be a basement.
23:55 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:55 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And like the later they're basement.
23:57 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they never have to move the basement.
23:59 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
23:59 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Later on, like Jesse and Rebecca moved up to the attic.
24:02 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Like where was the attic when Joe was living?
24:05 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Boyle is for.
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Boyle is for.
24:07 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_02]: and they had the twins.
24:08 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:08 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:08 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_02]: They moved up to the attic and they had like a whole vibe up there.
24:10 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, he built it out because great carpentry skills, but like couldn't he have done that.
24:13 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that they were processing the child.
24:15 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think ladies TV morning TV host probably made decent money.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:17 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:19 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
24:20 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:21 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:22 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:23 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
24:24 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this was like, they were like the regist and Kathy Lee of San Francisco.
24:29 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
24:29 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wake up San Francisco.
24:30 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Wake up San Francisco.
24:32 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay.
24:33 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So, they did date.
24:34 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not clear on your percent that this song is about Joey Gladstone, but it sounds like Joey Gladstone was way older and possibly that relationship was before she was like empowered fully.
24:48 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:48 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So, this is another one of those.
24:51 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Sus situation with the older.
24:53 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so uncle Joey gladstone uncle Joey Definitely Funny you mix them all up He was 33 when they were together and she was 18.
25:05 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He was recently divorced.
25:07 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He had a small kid like it was he was in a different season of life They were both Canadian.
25:13 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure how they met, but they did it for two years Not medically know each other because they were both kind of
25:18 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I think maybe they're like, oh, we're on like Canadian, the Canadian network and whatever, but they did for a while, like for two years, and at 18, two years, there's a pretty long relationship.
25:29 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:29 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_02]: You could argue it was her first like real adult relationship.
25:33 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she was, it just think of that being 18, you're with your boyfriend and their two-year-old three-year-old kid, is there too, like that's entering a whole world, like that's entering a household
25:48 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_02]: They broke up.
25:49 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They never really talked about why.
25:52 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But what's his next partner publicly?
25:55 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And no division of me, like is it some, some brunette that's five years older than her.
26:01 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: No, but there is a line in that song that made Dave Clea recognize old the songs about me.
26:08 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
26:09 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner.
26:12 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Do it right, though.
26:13 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner dinner and so that was two James had feel like it's okay, so there was a moment right before they broke up that she called him in the middle of dinner and he got really annoyed by it and that like kind of started the ball rolling towards there, demise and breakup and then he heard that allegedly on the radio and like pulled over and ran into like
26:39 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_02]: strawberries music, whatever.
26:41 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like by the CD to listen to it and he said he sat in the car and listened to it beginning to end and said, wow, I really must have heard this woman.
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a very Canadian.
26:51 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
26:52 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I must have really heard her and then like called and now that's story.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a story.
26:57 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And now like their friends again.
26:59 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So like, that's this much drama as two Canadians are going to get, I think, but okay.
27:04 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of rage bubbling below the surface of it, and I think now, like we know that this album was about him, like she's never said, so yeah, we know.
27:13 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So it isn't that there, it's that it could be about somebody else, but there aren't like other obvious candidates.
27:18 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: there are no obvious can.
27:20 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it could be some guy we don't like or it's a semi-fictional combination of a few guys.
27:26 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that she smart and do not name it as about Uncle Joey because now
27:32 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_02]: When we listen to it, it's more accessible for us to layer our own experiences onto the music and not just think of like, what do the wood chuck or chip, which follows we did this before we could figure it out.
27:44 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think wood chuck is right.
27:46 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds right.
27:47 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: What?
27:48 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
27:49 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not looking it up.
27:50 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
27:50 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I can see him in my head with that.
27:52 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't ask me with your eyes.
27:53 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I like teal soup.
27:54 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I know.
27:55 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Okay, and spoilers for Full House.
27:58 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
28:12 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so I want to talk about syncopation, like I said.
28:16 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So remember, everybody, syncopation is when the rhythms push against the sort of prevailing count.
28:23 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean that if we have one, two, three, four, we've got somebody in three or six, eight, it's not that.
28:30 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like we have multiple meters.
28:32 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But
28:33 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of hitting the beat, your rhythms are emphasizing being off the beat.
28:36 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So classic syncopation, if I've got one, two, three, four would be like, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, right?
28:43 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So one end and end, like that kind of thing where you're not just playing off the beat, but you're emphasizing and often holding something off the beat, right?
28:53 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I alluded to already, it's like,
28:56 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm reading into it too much, and that's, you know, why I get paid the big bucks, I guess, but it seems almost proportional to the emotional intensity.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of this.
29:07 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: is more descriptive of the event.
29:11 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of this is more facetiously giving this guy credit.
29:16 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of it is more just like no FU, right?
29:19 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of it is much more directly assertive and aggressive, right?
29:22 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So, not necessarily chronological order, but we're kind of going to listen to almost all the sections of this song, and we're going to kind of,
29:31 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: rate it on its level of syncopation and also its level of emotional intensity, right?
29:37 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So like I said a little out of order, let's start spoiling the middle of the song.
29:42 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's consider the chorus, how angry and how off the beat is this.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so how intense anger?
30:12 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm a scale of one to five, I would say it's probably like a two or three scale of Canada to America.
30:19 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, we have like, so it's pretty, so it's pretty, so it's pretty, I would say that's pretty angry though, like that's the photo type of it.
30:25 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a Canadian five.
30:27 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a Canadian so we'll say we'll call it a five, right?
30:29 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:29 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Now count through and try to get a sense, just count one, two, three, four.
30:34 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:34 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Note when things don't line up with your one, two, three, four.
30:37 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_02]: 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2
30:59 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so nice guy.
31:01 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you get a sense for how often she was with you versus against you?
31:04 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I was really busy counting.
31:06 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but I think the autos Autos were not on the beat.
31:11 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a lot more even than that.
31:13 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sure.
31:13 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm here that one to remind you of the mess you left when you went away all of that is off the beat and then
31:24 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm snapping the beat, right?
31:25 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
31:26 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Cross, I've bet that you gave to me, you, you, you ought to know.
31:32 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Basically the entire thing is changed together as think of patients, right?
31:37 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
31:37 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we can calibrate that to be maybe.
31:41 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe not maximum emotional intensity, but possibly the peak, and possibly the peak of syncopation.
31:47 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Because every single word is essentially off the beat.
31:51 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The only way to be more syncopated is if you use a less straightforward rhythm.
31:56 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you started using tripletes or like made it more complex rhythmically.
32:00 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But this is feeling like it's not complex rhythmically.
32:04 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like emotionally unhinged because it's a little bit off the beat.
32:08 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the, is that your positive kind of what I'm positing?
32:11 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a few moments that are impossibly a little more unhinged.
32:15 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Where the rhythm starts to become something you almost couldn't write down.
32:18 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This is still just like eighth notes against the quarter notes, but essentially are emotional.
32:25 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_01]: disruption kind of are not unstable emotions, but are, yeah, that kind of unhinged emotion like pulled us against all our lives.
32:33 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was been pulled away from the beat.
32:36 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's our spoiler.
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's back up.
32:39 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: First one, first half of first one.
32:42 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_01]: She's sarcastic, but she's at least saying nice things.
32:46 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So how sinkipated and how angry are we here?
32:50 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_05]: I want you to know.
32:54 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm happy for you, I wish nothing but the best for you both.
33:07 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Fairly syncopated, always like landing on the downbeat, like always landing on the one, like no matter where she goes, she's like grounding back into that one.
33:16 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: How is that Fairly syncopated that?
33:18 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_02]: because it's following the beat.
33:20 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_01]: No, syncopated is when you're off.
33:22 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man, I blew it.
33:24 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm here to run.
33:25 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not.
33:26 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all syncopation is when she's pushing off the beat.
33:28 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This is I.
33:30 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Want you know I get messed up one word you to know you start you to think of a baby But I want and know are all completely on the bait.
33:38 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like mixing up Syncopation and staccato you've done that before.
33:43 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what led us to talk about your beloved high school music teacher, but I like make them up.
33:48 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I was throwing shade that for some reason he confused you with that.
33:50 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I like I'm doing it again.
33:52 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so okay good.
33:54 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm reaching myself.
33:56 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Not very syncopated.
33:56 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
33:57 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I
33:58 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: want.
33:58 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: She's hitting beat 1 and beat 3.
34:00 --> 34:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The least sort of syncopated part of the bar like you can't get stronger than the two strong beats.
34:07 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And what's the emotional intensity?
34:09 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: How unhinged is she?
34:10 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, it's a simmer.
34:12 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a simmer of unhinged.
34:14 --> 34:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you can feel it bubbling beneath.
34:16 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a little bit like a southern or saying bless your heart.
34:18 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:19 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, can they?
34:19 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They're mad at you.
34:21 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But she's saying nice things.
34:22 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I wish the best for you both.
34:23 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she doesn't mean it very Boston, but she's not yelling at him.
34:27 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:27 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Very Boston right.
34:28 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:28 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Passive aggressive.
34:29 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
34:30 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not doing the second half of verse one.
34:33 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We're now starting verse two.
34:34 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just see is this similar.
34:54 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels the same to me, except her tone is shifting.
34:59 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Tones shifting.
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the meat, there would be the meat or no.
35:02 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_02]: The rhythm isn't shifting that much.
35:05 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the melody and the rhythm are basically saying the same.
35:07 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, but it's just her delivery.
35:09 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And her, like,
35:10 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: her treatment of it is changing it sounds to me like she's again saying like sort of nice things but she's like breathlessly trying to be positive yes she's unraveled like it's taking a lot of effort i think for you do that and again we're pretty much on the beat here interestingly the word peaceful is off the beat we're peaceful and that words taking a lot of emotional control i think for her to
35:39 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So that can up again.
35:40 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
35:41 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: The second half of the verse.
35:43 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm comparing like to like we're showing the progression here, but obviously this is jumping back and forth.
35:47 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_01]: What's going on here, both emotionally and sing a patient one.
36:10 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so level of intensity, level of syncopation.
36:12 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you got?
36:13 --> 36:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And no diversion of me, I'm moderately syncopated, moderately intense, the language is changing.
36:21 --> 36:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
36:21 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Eighth grade me had a lot of questions, but what do these words mean?
36:25 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So that line, though, has the most syncopation down on you in a theater.
36:30 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_01]: She's actually a little just off time there.
36:33 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just syncopated.
36:34 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The a theater is just sort of late.
36:37 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So more rhythmic disruption, still mostly on the beat, a little more negative, a little more intense, right?
36:43 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
36:43 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, crass, too, for Canadian.
36:46 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
36:46 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So the parallel portion of verse two.
37:00 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_05]: There was a slap in the face I could play, I was replaced And I was thinking of me When you fucking...
37:10 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Look a bit on him, more on hinge, directly.
37:14 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_02]: It's feeling more syncopated.
37:18 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I might be being tricked by the awesome bass line.
37:22 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So, this is actually a little bit like, come on, please, stay in your lane, like you're not supposed to be the solo listener.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to this.
37:30 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to this here.
37:34 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, so good.
37:35 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And they mixed it really loud.
37:37 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:38 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also very syncopated, but it's on the end of three there.
37:42 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's like adding a lot of like texture to it to me.
37:46 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's advancing.
37:49 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_02]: the case more because it's just adding more to think about it's adding more like tension.
37:53 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
37:54 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:54 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a, I don't think I listened to the baseline of this until I was in adult.
37:58 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Like so good.
37:59 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's there.
38:00 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when you, when you listen to it, you can't not listen to it after that.
38:03 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like what you focus on.
38:04 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's one of the best baselines in all of the music.
38:07 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty good.
38:08 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a list prepared or we just say that.
38:10 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
38:12 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So, noting a few things, Mr. Do, plus setting, she's calling him a liar and that is very, very, very, totally off the beat.
38:21 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, are you thinking of me when you, that is so off the beat that it's not really, she's not on time anymore.
38:28 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_01]: She's actually just late to that.
38:30 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's completely unhinged from the count of the four, four, probably more than any other part of the song.
38:37 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the most memorable, lyrical permits.
38:40 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_02]: especially if you're an eighth grader and like you just watch Uncle Joey like on full house see I didn't know anything about Joey stuff back then I think I had like there was like rumors you know but there was no internet then really so like rumors existed in this like Uncle Joey a lot more is that uh C also Marilyn Manson uh oh yeah the one kind of that that's sort of like they're just in the ether of the world but there was no way to fact but I think that stuff just exists
39:07 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_01]: for every generation.
39:08 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That stuff's probably on the middle school, school yard right now, just with a different person.
39:13 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's some, it's Benson Boone or whatever.
39:15 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's some other artists just in Beaver that, and then in the 60s it would have been one of the monkeys or whatever.
39:20 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Like at any given point, there's some artists that those rumors exist about.
39:24 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:24 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So how dare you talk about Benson Boone that way?
39:28 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to bring them up eventually.
39:29 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I'm right now.
39:31 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember to the point of the unhinges think a patient.
39:35 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't hear that on the radio because it would just, yeah, thinking of me when you, it's okay.
39:41 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:41 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_02]: How interesting.
39:42 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
39:43 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You missed the unhinged word.
39:44 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, we all know.
39:45 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm, and then you hear the album and you hear it.
39:47 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_02]: You was so young like, oh, and I think over that.
39:51 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
39:52 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so almost actually almost done to our journey here.
39:56 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So how about the pre-chorus?
39:57 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We're finally there.
40:22 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_02]: No!
40:22 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And she like goes, she breaks again.
40:25 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_02]: getting broke.
40:26 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's totally off the beat.
40:27 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of it, so it's got fast notes, so it's got energy, but it's all on the beat, except for tail, yeah, die, tail, yeah, that is completely off the beat and the no scream is completely off the beat.
40:37 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that it's not syncopated, it's like adds pressure.
40:42 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you can feel like the pressure building because you've just experienced these very heavily syncopated moments.
40:50 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And now we're back to like being like
40:55 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:55 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just really interesting.
40:56 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:57 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how that manifests the second time we hear in the second pre-course.
41:18 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_02]: sort of starting to like lose their reins a little bit.
41:20 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And also equally distracted by this the base part in this.
41:24 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes segment.
41:26 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So do you know it?
41:28 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's obviously syncopated too, but instead of that we get and every time you scratch your nails down to and that is completely different, rhythmically, then the entire rest of the zone.
41:39 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
42:00 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_01]: What can you feel right so it's like that's very aggressive imagery right and of course Then we get to the chorus which we've already expressed is highly thinkpated
42:32 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's our auto, right?
42:34 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There's the auto, the elusive.
42:36 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say she's kind of max angry here.
42:38 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not fair.
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That is the only thing that's really like on the beat, not fair.
42:43 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a resolute.
42:44 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just fair, yeah.
42:45 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely.
42:46 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the last course at the end of the song, we have even more because there's connecting words between the lines and those are syncopated.
43:08 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_01]: right so then while I'm here she connects the two repeats of the chorus with more Singaporean so
43:15 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:15 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:15 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Thesis.
43:16 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Thesis.
43:17 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Thesis.
43:17 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:18 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_02]: First show up.
43:18 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty darn clear, right?
43:20 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty clear.
43:21 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate to stereotype.
43:22 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is like, oh, an angry ex-lover song, but it musically teaches it.
43:27 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, like, you never are at karaoke.
43:29 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, someone, there's like, oh, what man comes up.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's, you know, she's going to sing this song.
43:35 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_02]: You know that, like, she's not okay.
43:38 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about that.
43:39 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we talked about karaoke when we talked about
43:45 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And was it me saying I wanted I would want to see or did you say you would you have done this care?
43:50 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think that this is like the stereotypical scorned woman karaoke song and it came up in the pit that's why we're talking about it because in the season and the pit there's an extra scene.
44:02 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: boiler, man.
44:03 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: We're still on season one.
44:04 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not relevant to the plot.
44:05 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We are quite.
44:06 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You guys got to get this.
44:08 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're almost done with season one at the point of recording it, but what catch up eventually.
44:13 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
44:14 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So before we get into your stuff.
44:16 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
44:16 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to do a little tour of other songs that.
44:18 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
44:18 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
44:19 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
44:19 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So a little bit of extra examples and then we'll surrender the reins here.
44:23 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So a few alana songs.
44:25 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: all I really want from the same record.
44:27 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The verse is syncopated, but mostly also just kind of like unhinged rhythmically a little bit, meaning like not not unhinged in the sense emotionally as much, but kind of like disjointed rhythmically a little lazy.
44:52 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't wanna dissect everything today.
44:54 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't mean to pick you apart, you say, but I can't yet help that.
45:02 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I think this motif works so well for her when you combine it with the tone of her voice.
45:08 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there something so casual and like, this kind of song is a great conversation, it's exactly right.
45:15 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, when we listen to the pre-chorus, that's very syncopated and then we're going to hear the chorus, that is the opposite where that is going to be completely essentially on beat.
45:24 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So no syncopation will at least not much in the chorus.
45:48 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this might be my favorite song on that album.
45:49 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good one.
45:50 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:51 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the first track.
45:52 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
45:53 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good song.
45:54 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_02]: On my home today, I'm listening to this album.
45:56 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I need.
45:57 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I use in my life.
45:58 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't listen to the album as prep for the first time.
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.
46:02 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_02]: The second.
46:02 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Your commute's not long enough to my place.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a land.
46:06 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that there's no single patient in the forest, but that big and all I really want, for example, just boom right on the beat.
46:14 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, another tune by her 2004's Everything, you're bringing her the verse, mostly on the beat.
46:34 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_05]: I can beat the moody else to make me And I've never met any more As negative as I am sometimes Interesting here because the guitar in the background is very syncopated, but she isn't Ooh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh No, it's not
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, whatever, man.
46:58 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: What it has though is a nice rest.
47:00 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_01]: One, and two, and, and four, and, or that whole note, crosses B3, which is cool.
47:07 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just kind of like, yeah, there's just something there that's like disjoint, like unsettling.
47:12 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, no, yeah, you're right about that, yeah.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And when we get to the chorus, though, then her vocal is incubated.
47:18 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_05]: You see everything, you see everything,
47:28 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_05]: And you love my dark, you take everything Although it's showing the shade, there's not anything to But you can't really, and you're still in the air.
47:48 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So not like emotionally intense when everybody pretty much therapy smooth off the beat the whole time.
47:53 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm boring.
47:54 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, you know, a fan.
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I honestly, like, didn't really listen to a lot of that.
47:59 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I always forget that she had other albums.
48:01 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of jagged little pill listeners.
48:04 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
48:04 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, do you forget that she's so talented?
48:07 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_02]: She's good.
48:08 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: One more.
48:08 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Latter day, relatively speaking, underneath.
48:11 --> 48:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is from 2008.
48:13 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The verse again, mostly on the beat.
48:16 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_05]: Look at us, break our bones, gain this kitchen,
48:34 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the chorus, sync a patient.
48:36 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_05]: There is no need for rise.
48:39 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_05]: And why would I worry me here?
48:45 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_05]: The does that I shall have As various symptoms out there,
48:56 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:57 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
48:58 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
48:58 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, when looking for other examples that weren't alanis, I limited myself to only other jolted ex-lovers off.
49:06 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:06 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
49:06 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:06 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So I've got three.
49:08 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Females specific.
49:09 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Jolted ex-lovers.
49:11 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_02]: No, man.
49:13 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
49:14 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Do a leapa.
49:15 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
49:15 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Not Canadian.
49:16 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
49:17 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: IDGAF 2017.
49:19 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the next.
49:20 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It sure is.
49:21 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
49:23 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Think they didn't get tar but the vocal here in the verse mostly on the beat.
49:27 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And then in the pre-chorus to the very end-themic chorus here, much more sing a
49:57 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Y'all time is up, I'll tell you why
50:11 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, like, kind of wrote Dua Lipa off.
50:13 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that she's very, very talented, but I'm just so oversaturated with the five songs that they play on the radio that I forget.
50:21 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I listened to the whole albums, there'd be other songs that I actually really, really like.
50:26 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this one, I'm sure they do a Dua Lipa episode.
50:28 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
50:29 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, or like, we, I'll tell you, Mark, every episode of the record we end up with like six other ideas that we never execute.
50:36 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We did a Dua Lipa episode.
50:37 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_02]: No, we did.
50:38 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I remember.
50:39 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so fun.
50:40 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The way you said that made me think that you forget that we did talk about doing the thing.
50:43 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_02]: No, we did.
50:43 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So, we didn't only go in there, that was like a very radio friendly song that we covered.
50:48 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I became very sick of levitating after our after in the time, after we recorded that episode.
50:55 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I also programmed it for my school ensemble and became very sick of it after having to transcribe it.
51:01 --> 51:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't always get sick of music when the school band does it, but like just kind of the looping of it and like there was something about rehearsing that piece that was kind of annoying.
51:10 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, because it's as we discussed, go back, listeners, modular.
51:14 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is mud, like that's is the, yeah.
51:16 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_02]: the motif of that song, but I like that.
51:20 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the album that comes up.
51:21 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, yeah, it's just a couple of her hits got a little over-saturated up.
51:24 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
51:24 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And like that's a great song and how we're put that on the radio.
51:28 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_02]: There was on the radio.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it not as much?
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, we'll shoot.
51:31 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the album before.
51:33 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: This was just not as as saturated.
51:36 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
51:37 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So Carol King, it's too late.
51:40 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, of course,
51:43 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Not totally on the beat, in the verse, but close.
51:48 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And then in the chorus, more singapated.
52:11 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe now it's too late, but we really did try to make it.
52:19 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Something inside has gotten and I can't hide and I just can't pick it up.
52:30 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like swinging a little bit too.
52:33 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not actually, but cool.
52:36 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
52:37 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a little team quality to it.
52:38 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Swingy, you know, it's tuta-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-
52:50 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You can, it's fine.
52:51 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Embrace your incorrectness.
52:52 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It says that life in 2020.
52:55 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_02]: If they say it with enough authority.
52:57 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
52:58 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It becomes true.
52:58 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Who could say it's not true?
53:00 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Who could say it?
53:01 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not true.
53:02 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Except for someone with a doctor means I can.
53:04 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Who has one of those?
53:05 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_02]: There's like six.
53:06 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: My cake is karma by Chapel Rome 2020 too.
53:10 --> 53:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Love the song.
53:11 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a cool song.
53:13 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the highlights from the album when we were listening for the Grammy stuff for me.
53:18 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is kind of in reverse where the verse is kind of syncopated and then things changed later.
53:50 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just what Dave Collier did.
53:52 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, didn't go to her late.
53:53 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:54 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So what?
53:55 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a pre-chorus that is very syncopated, but then when we land on the chorus, it is just full on on the beat.
54:01 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Much more declarative statements come in.
54:04 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's synth or whatever it is.
54:06 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like very much keeping the beat.
54:08 --> 54:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, very, very long.
54:09 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So it makes the syncopation even more pronounced because you have something really grounded to compare it to.
54:15 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
54:15 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to blow yourself out there for a second.
54:17 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like awesome at music theory.
54:19 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
54:42 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, cool is this cool is great song.
54:48 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
54:48 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pessimistic in an optimistic way so I'm generally into that
55:10 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you dished a bit earlier.
55:11 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked a lot about music.
55:13 --> 55:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to also tell us some psychological principles about like anger and rage in general.
55:19 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So like there's a couple things that are interesting about anger and rage like I'm not a rage person like you don't seem to be a rage person don't you awhile I've never seen you like throw a chair or like get mad and like
55:35 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I threw a chair once.
55:36 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you tell us about that when you were teenager?
55:39 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a teenager.
55:40 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Your brain's so haywire.
55:41 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I've grown a bit since then, but yeah, I actually have the capacity to get really mad.
55:48 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have it a few points in my life and I've learned a lot from those moments.
55:53 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a, I wouldn't say it's a lifelong struggle, but it was a long-term struggle that I think I kind of have snapped a bit, but yeah, no, I have the capacity to get really frustrated.
56:05 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not it's not I didn't throw anything it's I would angry and I broke a chair Oh, so it's it's like get the anger out of your body and like put it somewhere I guess and it was like yeah, I was 16 or something or 17 and it was not part of those moments yeah
56:21 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_02]: to feel out of control is not something I like.
56:27 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know many people that do I think or maybe there's people that like that feeling of being out of control or and I wonder about when people say like oh I saw red they had got so mad they saw red that's not hyperbole like people actually do see red because they're all their blood rushes to their head and it
56:46 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can tell.
56:47 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say this and you're going to tell me whether we should cut it out because it's I'm extremely ashamed of this, but it's a meaningful moment in my life and whatever, like it was it was 10 years ago and I'm better now we were flying somewhere we had a baby or first child.
57:07 --> 57:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is more than 10 years probably 11.
57:09 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we were flying back home after having just moved here.
57:13 --> 57:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know the situation, but we were caught by TSA dealing with all the milk bottles or getting looked at and everything's just taking forever and we're trying trying to make this flight.
57:23 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're running literally, I'm running, holding my son or the bags and the wife's got to whatever it is, we're trying, we're trying, I don't know exactly what the situation was, but imagine boarding process closes at 11 a.m.
57:37 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_01]: the flight is leaving it on 15.
57:39 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So like there's the point in which the door shut.
57:40 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It's too like to get into the flight.
57:41 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
57:42 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the exact time, but we show up at 10 57 and they've shut the doors already.
57:48 --> 57:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
57:49 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were not late, but they said, sorry, we shut the doors.
57:52 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not allowed to open.
57:53 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I freaked out.
57:56 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not the chair.
57:56 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_01]: The chair was
58:05 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_01]: like saw red like I was so mad.
58:08 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I was swearing or anything, but I was you know I'm this man and this is a woman and that's a scary moment and I'm like yelling at her like and I you can try to empathize with how frustrating that moment is you try you try you try for hours trying to get this and it's still not good enough.
58:22 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and afterwards my wife is just like you.
58:25 --> 58:28 [SPEAKER_01]: left yourself too far there like this is not okay.
58:28 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt very called in in that moment because I knew that she felt just as mad as me.
58:35 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_01]: She felt just as frustrated.
58:36 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_01]: She was just as disappointed by what had happened is me.
58:38 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
58:39 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't like she was telling me calm down mark.
58:42 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_01]: What's your problem?
58:42 --> 58:45 [SPEAKER_01]: No, she was with me in how frustrating it was.
58:46 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Her response was the humane response.
58:49 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt
58:50 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't I didn't have the courage to like go up to the woman and say I'm so sorry.
58:54 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
58:54 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I just like slinked away into the shadows and just and it's hard.
58:58 --> 58:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's nothing like that has ever happened again.
58:59 --> 59:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was that was my rock and I'm glad the rock bottom was just me yelling at somebody.
59:04 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like break a chair.
59:05 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do anything crazy, but I didn't call her names.
59:08 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't say anything I regret.
59:09 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just.
59:10 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_01]: really, really externally, like, lashing out of desperate.
59:16 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're shit happens when you have a little kid, like, loads of people, like, everything that he was, he was less than two at that point, I'm sure of it.
59:22 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
59:22 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I don't know, cut it out, leave it in.
59:24 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I should leave, leave it in, because this is an important thing to address is that sometimes when we're so angry, we scare ourselves
59:37 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We're capable of in terms of like how angry can I get there.
59:41 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes that I've been so angry in the moment and then hindsight I look back and like while that actually is behavior that I need to get rained in because that it was scary to feel that way and it must have been scary for your wife in that moment.
59:57 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Feel free to cut this out.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_02]: because she realized what you could be capable of and that's in you somewhere.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also like what I was capable of was a horrifying display of somebody being mad and yelling.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's scary, but also, hey, at least I demonstrated that all I was capable of was using my words aggressively, I guess.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess I, that's the silver lining.
01:00:21 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but words are, you know, when we talk about punishment, we think of words and yelling as a positive punishment and not positive in that like it's good positive adds something to someone.
01:00:34 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So, when you think of a punishment and reading enforcement, we use the terms positive and negative and not like positives go to negative spades adding and subtracting.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So positive punishment is like you're punishing her by adding.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_02]: the stress and the fear that this man is yelling at me because that's all I could do.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:00:52 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: All I had power of was I could at least make this woman who made a bad decision.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I could make her feel negative emotions.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Or you could.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_02]: that decision being not not letting us on, but closing the door three minutes or and I'll even check you on that, like you can't really make her feel anything, but you can project your negative emotions on to her.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And like if she has a strong boundary and a thick skin, like she's not, she's probably not even thinking about that because she's been trained to deal with it.
01:01:22 --> 01:01:24 [SPEAKER_01]: She's probably dealt with this every single day.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_02]: She's probably dealt with a lot worse.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Then the dad and she, my guess is she understands you're with the small child trying to get home.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: There's, she understands the moment I think, I think, you know, and everybody's different.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But what I would have wanted was a more of a show of empathy.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: More of a, I'm so sorry we had to shut the gate early instead of a, no, with your light.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And like there wasn't a, oh wow, you all look like you've had a hell of a morning.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what caused me to snap.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in that moment.
01:01:55 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, maybe as a fellow, as a fellow, three dimensional human, maybe she had a rough morning too.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she needed to close that door early because of some crap that was coming away from retirement and that's right.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So before we get back, because this is not an X lover, maybe I'll get cold feet and delete all of this when I'm doing the edit, but like I will say I was disappointed in your field following that.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Because like I said this felt like rock bottom and for me I wanted to be better and I was like I'm going to learn coping methods to deal with this I'm going to go to like anger management or something and I failed to find that I could not find in this suburb of Boston kind of area a way to do that to like go see somebody and try to because I didn't need like
01:02:40 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: crazy let's unpack my I needed strategies I needed like okay I needed a method to like okay if this happens I'm in a back away in counted I wanted to learn skills that's how I like grow I learned skills and I failed I tried so hard to find like a class I could go to or whatever and eventually I just sort of did the work.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: with my own family and with me like and it was a bummer because I was not someone who was like oh there's nothing I want no I was like shit I lost myself and I want help to get better and I could not successfully get that.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah you know when they say that there's a mental health crisis
01:03:13 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you hear those words, that's what they're talking about.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:20 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of availability, there's a lack of availability of clinical support.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who is willing to do it and pay for it.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Because everyone else is busy.
01:03:24 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:31 [SPEAKER_02]: So busy with really bad, with like the things that are like you, you had, you got angry and you yelled at some 80.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Other people getting angry and they kill other people.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:03:35 --> 01:03:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So should at their teachers in the classroom, right?
01:03:38 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And even those people have a hard time finding services because services are not as accessible.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_02]: They need to be and there's not enough of them.
01:03:46 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But imagine your parent trying to find services for your child and like the kids fine, like they just need someone to talk to, it's very, very hard to just find someone that will you go and you meet with clinicians for kids and they're like, well, they don't have anxiety.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:02 [SPEAKER_02]: They have anxiety.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_02]: They seem fine.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:04 [SPEAKER_02]: They just
01:04:05 --> 01:04:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess, like I guess I'll cold them within adjustment disorders, so we can build your insurance 500 bucks a pop just so they can come and fidget and talk, right?
01:04:15 --> 01:04:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the reality.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is still hard.
01:04:17 --> 01:04:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That's very hard to find.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, telehealth is accessible, but not as valid.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's missing the, it's missing an element of the human interaction that people don't have proper training for telehealth.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's no clinical programs that are training for telehealth
01:04:35 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So anger.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:04:39 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never had this scorn lover.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I've had sadness associated with being a scorn lover.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Never really not maybe some righteous indignation, but not like.
01:04:49 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that person and that person.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I've never in the moment of separation, but often in hindsight.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I look back at some of my previous relationships and
01:05:00 --> 01:05:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel anger, but I'm more angry honestly with myself for putting up with it.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm more angry with myself for letting that stuff happen, like not standing up for myself in certain ways.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's just getting older and growth and self-respect, which I think in 18 year old, a lot of us didn't have yet, just as an
01:05:30 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_02]: unpack the song in terms of syncopation and tracking syncopation towards like level of anger.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_02]: There are like four distinct levels of anger that humans process through or like the things that we deal with it.
01:05:43 --> 01:05:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they're equal to just like talk through those four.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be quick just to like name them.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're seeing first folks deal with their anger by exploding like you with that TSA agent.
01:05:55 --> 01:05:56 [SPEAKER_02]: That was an explosion.
01:05:56 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:05:57 --> 01:05:58 [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't measured.
01:05:58 --> 01:06:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It was very syncopated level 4 level 4.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:06:02 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:06:02 --> 01:06:21 [SPEAKER_02]: That's like the highest you can get is just raging out and we do see that a lot in relationships and in not just romantic relationships, but any relationships with people that you really love and care about the only time I've ever really experienced rage is in circumstances around in my child.
01:06:21 --> 01:06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like the fear equals rage kind of thing?
01:06:25 --> 01:06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I was really scared you were going to cut out.
01:06:26 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm going to give you a bit more.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It is a of a so press and response.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So we have two major neurotransmitters that deal with love.
01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 [SPEAKER_02]: One is oxytocin, which is like cuddly warm, fuzzy love.
01:06:40 --> 01:06:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And the other is very so precise, which is like, that's the mom of bear or scorn's lover.
01:06:45 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I loved you and you were flirting with that girl in the bar.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to go and rip you off of her head.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:51 [SPEAKER_01]: type for response.
01:06:51 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't have, I honestly don't have that in me in terms of romantic love, but definitely in terms of like the mama beariness.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So this exploding can be a base of press and response.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, my guess is the reason you exploded so much around this test, this flight attendant situation was because you were with your wife and child,
01:07:16 --> 01:07:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I bet you that was a part of it for you.
01:07:19 --> 01:07:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't about the closed door.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It was about that like you were trying to bring your family to where they had to be and something was stopping that.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Does that track a little bit?
01:07:27 --> 01:07:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It also though might be because if you're going to say it's all I'm supposed to provide for them, it's also like, well, I failed to deliver the goods here.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So there might be also a self-loving too, too, but I don't know.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a long time ago and I saw red, so I don't remember exactly what I was thinking.
01:07:42 --> 01:07:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, you're blood pressure was already pretty high.
01:07:44 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: for literally running.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So like that contributes to it.
01:07:47 --> 01:07:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Like your body in that moment was in a fight or flight physiological state, right?
01:07:53 --> 01:07:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Whether or not mentally you were your body, your blood pressure was elevated, you're probably sweating.
01:07:57 --> 01:07:59 [SPEAKER_02]: You probably had to go the bathroom.
01:07:59 --> 01:08:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You probably were like, trying to, you were running.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And your body doesn't know that you're running to a flight to California or you're running from danger.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just your running and your heart, your amped.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:39 [SPEAKER_02]: That's going to amp up any rage that lives in you because your body is like pushing in that direction because the rage maybe also provide some kind of evolutionary like if I was actually fighting for my life, maybe it would be kind of helpful to go all berserker and I could unlock extra strength or whatever it was to fight that lion or whatever right and you like also in those moments you wouldn't feel pain the same way you would kind of just associate so you don't like remember any traumatic things that happen to you and it sounds like those are things that happened in that moment for you.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we're saying.
01:08:41 --> 01:08:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That's level four.
01:08:42 --> 01:08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So text, let yourself off the hook.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:47 [SPEAKER_02]: You're biology had more to do with it than your psychological state.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Level three is imploding, which probably happened next.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm hearing it in you.
01:08:55 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
01:08:56 --> 01:09:12 [SPEAKER_02]: negative self-talk are really somatic feeling like stomach aches head aches like shaking like really like but now like you're done dissociating you're back in your body and it kind of stinks in there like it's not feeling great you're feeling remorse
01:09:13 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_02]: you're feeling like, what did I do, right?
01:09:15 --> 01:09:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a level of anger, too.
01:09:17 --> 01:09:19 [SPEAKER_02]: But you're not so much angry at the situation at that point.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:22 [SPEAKER_02]: You're like angry with how you reacted to it.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You're still angry at the situation.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But then it becomes like, oh, if only we packed the bag and the quicker way to get through TSA.
01:09:29 --> 01:09:33 [SPEAKER_02]: If only we left a little earlier, like, you know, you get into that negative pejorative self-talk.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's level three, you're imploding.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:40 [SPEAKER_02]: leaking is level two leaking leaking.
01:09:41 --> 01:09:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the theories that we talk about.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's like to exploding, imploding leaking leaking.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is like a passive aggressive putting your anger and hate to bug you in the middle of dinner.
01:09:52 --> 01:09:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Hate to bug you on middle of dinner.
01:09:53 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:09:55 --> 01:10:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, wife, maybe if you pack the bag, neither of one of what works like that or maybe if you ran faster, or like come on baby, get it together.
01:10:04 --> 01:10:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get to the date, right?
01:10:06 --> 01:10:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm not saying I don't want to imply that that was what happened in your situation.
01:10:11 --> 01:10:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just extrapolating on that example.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good way to talk through.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, if we hadn't had kids, this was not what they were.
01:10:19 --> 01:10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Why didn't we?
01:10:19 --> 01:10:22 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have an ability to it when you're trying to travel with.
01:10:22 --> 01:10:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Why we even moved to Boston.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was your idea for your job.
01:10:26 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We moved here, right?
01:10:27 --> 01:10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely not.
01:10:28 --> 01:10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's feeling surreal.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the, so that's.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
01:10:34 --> 01:10:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's not really level, all right.
01:10:36 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's because it's more like cutting, almost a passive or passive, and then level one is asserting, which is a very unthinkipated.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:56 [SPEAKER_02]: way to express anger, like very rhythmic on the beat, like assertive, managed release of that anger.
01:10:56 --> 01:11:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And is that the only kind of healthy expression of anger of those four?
01:11:00 --> 01:11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think all of it is healthy because it gets the anger out of your body, but there's repercussions to each, and these are my opinions, so there's repercussions to it.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:12 [SPEAKER_02]: In think of like a certain, think of if they're like angry and a faculty meeting.
01:11:13 --> 01:11:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can't rage out, right?
01:11:15 --> 01:11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't throw things.
01:11:16 --> 01:11:19 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't, you shouldn't be passive-aggressive.
01:11:19 --> 01:11:20 [SPEAKER_02]: You shouldn't self-blame in those moments.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But it becomes like a very rhythmic style of talk where you're very clear, very direct, what you're saying, right?
01:11:28 --> 01:11:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And the tone shifts.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:36 [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that the anger is there and it's clear, but it becomes more measured and not scary.
01:11:36 --> 01:11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what's weird.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There's been a lot of self-disclosure here.
01:11:39 --> 01:11:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a deliberate and enunciative, fast and loud way of speaking, that people are evolutionarily predisposed to interpret.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Rather, misinterpret as anger,
01:11:51 --> 01:11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, why are you getting upset, Mark?
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm just describing what I'm recommending.
01:11:56 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just the way that I can speak is just very kind of intense and percussive.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:12:03 --> 01:12:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, in our room, not trying to be no, I'm not even feeling, or even negativity at all.
01:12:08 --> 01:12:20 [SPEAKER_02]: In our work together over many years, I've learned that about you and have learned that like when you're explaining something you aren't angry, even if it might sound like you are.
01:12:21 --> 01:12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody else angry looks like me when I'm just being like deliberate or like, or like dialed in, dialed in, yeah, like that's just your nature.
01:12:29 --> 01:12:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And I've had to learn that and it's just taken work.
01:12:32 --> 01:12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm describing, but like the times of my life when someone's like, why are you angry?
01:12:35 --> 01:12:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like somebody I don't know well, right?
01:12:37 --> 01:12:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody's doing that.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: My wife isn't misinterpreting that.
01:12:41 --> 01:12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: My students in week 10 when I'm explaining something, they get it.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But in week one, they're like, why is he mad about the scale?
01:12:49 --> 01:12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, not, I'm just explaining.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And like my students, when I use that tone, they know that I'm angry.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You should.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not my baseline.
01:13:03 --> 01:13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't get in get to a task too.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You can.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I got it.
01:13:10 --> 01:13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, like, getting.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: to invest it as the term, giving to invested in whether they're learning it and my own sense of happiness in the moment is based, it's all losing battle.
01:13:20 --> 01:13:24 [SPEAKER_02]: You have to keep the children's you have and not the students you want.
01:13:24 --> 01:13:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
01:13:25 --> 01:13:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, as a teacher and stuff and maybe as a podcaster, I used like stupid jokes, like dad, humor, like
01:13:35 --> 01:13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like my own not funny brand of trying to be funny as a way to kind of like like in a laughing emoji at the end of kind of a passive aggressive statement like as a way of like signaling like no I'm just being like deliberate here I'm not actually trying to be intense just like
01:13:51 --> 01:13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just dialed in on this topic.
01:13:53 --> 01:13:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a coping mechanism that you've learned.
01:13:55 --> 01:14:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You subconsciously are consciously learned that you need to add a caveat to certain to not be misinterpreted.
01:14:01 --> 01:14:02 [SPEAKER_02]: To not be misinterpreted.
01:14:02 --> 01:14:16 [SPEAKER_02]: But when you think of this delivery of anger, if you think of it towards a child, what's more unsettling to see an upset mom slam her book on the table and walk away, stomp away angry or for the mom to get.
01:14:17 --> 01:14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: really quiet, really measured with her speech taking really like tight breaths and saying, I really need you to stop that behavior right now.
01:14:25 --> 01:14:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that can be scary too.
01:14:26 --> 01:14:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the mom voice, right?
01:14:30 --> 01:14:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It depends on the family dynamic and it depends on like the honestly like the level of trauma and conflict in the household.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: like how what someone's acclimated to.
01:14:39 --> 01:14:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what someone's acclimated to.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's a different, we'll save that.
01:14:43 --> 01:14:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a different conversation.
01:14:44 --> 01:14:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:14:44 --> 01:14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So bringing it back to this song is these levels.
01:14:47 --> 01:14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're getting a lot of level two in level four in song.
01:14:51 --> 01:14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We have actual full on rage.
01:14:53 --> 01:14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of.
01:14:54 --> 01:14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You ought to know, I don't think there's the imploding.
01:14:57 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think this song gives us any, oh, I'm so mad at myself for being with you or whatever or for letting you in the album, though.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, I think that's interesting.
01:15:07 --> 01:15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: This is, and then like, the managed release in the first first.
01:15:10 --> 01:15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there is a very managed release at this very, like, pre-chorus is like, she's more just like, like, just like,
01:15:16 --> 01:15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: paired back and restrictive in her tone level two though is the sort of leaky that's the verses the verses where she's like being sarcastic yeah the pre-chorus is like a little more and the love that you gave that you made that like whatever that stuff is she's a little more directly accusing him is she's exploding renting you think she's exploding on us I would have thought that those though my theory of the case is verse is level two
01:15:43 --> 01:15:51 [SPEAKER_01]: leaky, pre-chorus is level one sort of more assertion direct assertive.
01:15:51 --> 01:15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
01:15:53 --> 01:15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And then chorus is level four.
01:15:54 --> 01:15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And that there is no level three represented in this song.
01:15:57 --> 01:16:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the song talks about a person swing wildly through all of these different anger pathways.
01:16:03 --> 01:16:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:16:03 --> 01:16:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's less focus on this imploding negative self-talk because that involves
01:16:08 --> 01:16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: a certain level of introspection that because of the physiological responses to this trauma that she's felt, this like rage that she's feeling.
01:16:18 --> 01:16:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And also because of her age a little bit like at the time, there isn't a lot of hindsight involved, right?
01:16:25 --> 01:16:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And we need hindsight for introspection and we do.
01:16:28 --> 01:16:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And she just doesn't have that in the context of this song and the time and place of her failed relationship.
01:16:34 --> 01:16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: The introspection hasn't happened yet.
01:16:35 --> 01:16:36 [SPEAKER_02]: But we do see it
01:16:37 --> 01:16:42 [SPEAKER_02]: later, especially in that hidden song at the end of this album.
01:16:42 --> 01:16:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:16:43 --> 01:16:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So, there you go, put a little bow on that.
01:16:54 --> 01:16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and hosted and produced by Mark Poppony.
01:17:01 --> 01:17:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow on social media.
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01:17:15 --> 01:17:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.