#47 - The Departed

[00:00:00] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like the show. The politics, the drama, the lore! It was made for the Lorehounds.

[00:00:36] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons.

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[00:01:00] The Lorehounds House of the Dragon covers is also safe for teen green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself and an inescapable urge to read the book fire and blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.

[00:01:11] We need to properly Howard the podcast that covers classic film and other pulp fiction. This week we revisit The Departed, which is Martin Scorsese's remake of Infernal Affairs. This is a movie with a lot of problems, laughably bad at times, but I cannot get enough of this movie.

[00:01:54] Make sure that you check out the Lorehounds.com for all of the quality programming that David and John and Marilyn and Alicia are doing. Next week we'll be covering the Nick Cage remake of The Wicker Man so you can prep for that.

[00:02:11] And as promised at the end of this podcast, Steve and I discuss his properly Howard themed tattoo. Without further ado here is stand up comic Steve Osburn. My story is not anywhere near as interesting as yours but I recently got my first tattoo. Is that right?

[00:02:33] Yeah, it's because my daughter is an artist and she got herself a tattoo kit. Is she really? Very rudimentary. Yeah. And she it's just a simple ink and needle kit. That's right. It's as close to getting the tattoo in jail as you can possibly get.

[00:02:54] Is it good enough to be like, yeah, this is permanent? It's permanent all right. And it hurts like hell. Where'd you get it? It was on my right shoulder. Where's yours? Left shoulder. Left shoulder, all right.

[00:03:08] So I thought, you know she was like, I'm gonna start doing this. I'm gonna start practicing on myself. I'm like no, no, no, no, no. I want your first tattoo to be on me. Wow.

[00:03:18] And because I was always thinking about a tattoo of course I'm always pretty cheap when it comes to these things. I thought a freeze a good price. I thought I'm just gonna get something really simple. I got myself a little heart.

[00:03:30] That's about two inch by two inch heart with a little arrow through it with an S in the middle. For me? Well, I didn't want to spoil things. It is an homage to Steve and my wife Sarah and Superman. So those are the three.

[00:03:50] So depending on who you're with. So yeah, and I just thought for my first tattoo, I want to feel like I'm in jail. And it hurt, it hurt like the certain certain jabs hurt more than others.

[00:04:09] And of course you have to understand my daughter is a good artist, but she's never hooked needles into people. Right. So she doesn't have that deaf touch quite yet probably. And of course once you get good at tattooing, you've got better equipment. Right. For sure.

[00:04:26] So anyway, it was an experience. It didn't last 10 and a half hours though I'll say that much. It's a pretty simple tattoo. But I think that maybe for the second tattoo, you know, maybe it'll be a different experience.

[00:04:43] I love the idea that you just like people like so what are these tattoos signified? Oh, rough draft. Yeah, I was thinking about about filling, you know, making it a little bit more detailed than what it is right now. Gotcha. Well, that's great. Look at us. Yeah.

[00:05:03] Yeah, we didn't even coordinate this. I know that's pretty that's pretty impressive because you didn't know I was getting. You had mentioned a month ago or so like I'm thinking about maybe a tattoo or here or there, but the entire trip to Boston was a big surprise.

[00:05:19] Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was timing was not great because I have so much other stuff going on. I like I was sandwiched in between gigs and just meant like not being home as much as I would have liked to have been.

[00:05:32] But the trip was fantastic sailing like when you get into like the town, it's like a lot of it's like kind of one lane roads. It's and it's super touristy. So it's not really. It's made more for walking at that point. I really like it.

[00:05:47] I mean, it's they certainly lean into which the witches we have the witch theme people are super nice. This is my first time ever in that area.

[00:05:58] So the act so everything seemed fake right like my only interaction or you know, awareness of of East Coast or like Boston area type stuff is through like like film and television right so.

[00:06:13] So these accents are not accents I really encounter and like all the architecture like I'm like, this kind of feels fake.

[00:06:20] Even though it's like authentically old but because because it all like that like in Disneyland or yeah yeah yeah so listening to people like just the music, the locals there of their speech was intoxicating, especially when it was just like at its absolute fevered pitch.

[00:06:40] California people tend to low talk at a table like in a restaurant. Man not not in Salem or Boston area. I'm not talking to her. I love that. That was my favorite. My favorite when she picked up her phone and looked at her at her text just that.

[00:07:00] So one of my favorite Boston experiences is this is a few years back and I go into a bar. It's just this bar is just packed. I'm at the edge of the bar and I just want to be here and finally the bartender get the bartender's attention.

[00:07:18] She comes over and she says what do you have hun? There's something about being called hun that doesn't work unless there's an accent right right so I kind of went a little northern California on her without knowing it.

[00:07:35] When I said was yeah could I get a and she immediately mocked me. Well, like my voice went up was sort of like hey, I want you to like me. Can you get me a beer? You know that kind of voice.

[00:07:49] Oh yeah, can I get she was immediately went man, man, man, man. Why are you talk like that? Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. I'm thinking like, wait, I'm here to pay money to you to buy me a beer.

[00:08:01] I don't want to be made fun of because I'm a little bit feminine. Oh man, that's how everybody was. It was kind of this like, like what's the matter with you? Like that was it. It was what's the matter with you? Why are you gay? Right.

[00:08:17] And I'm thinking but I but I think it's okay to be gay. Right and that's and it's funny because that's that's what they say that all the time. Like I had a boss from Danvers and she would say things were gay and then we're like, you

[00:08:31] can't you can't do that. And she's like, I don't mean like gay. I mean like it's bad. Right. That's our point like that's there's an issue. Do you see a problem? There's an equivalency that you're drawing from that. I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:08:48] And she just was so like she just it was just not just exasperated. Yeah, exasperated. I mean, I'm not homophobic. I just think that I just think that are bad. You should call gay. Right. And I'm like, yeah, I know.

[00:09:01] Like can we just maybe use this as an opportunity? It's almost like if you're not hyper masculine in this culture, you get mocked. Oh, yeah. Like it would not take me very long to put on a Southie accent. If I, you know, give me a month. Right.

[00:09:23] I live there a month. I would go full goodwill hunting. Yeah. Like I don't know like I started thinking like whenever I go visit a place and I have a good time like could I live here? And I don't know.

[00:09:35] Like, I mean, I think I could I probably could. And like I said, the people were like even when they're mocking you, it felt like already a friendly mocking, you know what I mean? So there's something about that.

[00:09:48] That was it was kind of fun and it just made me feel at home. Yeah, there's wasn't balls. There's wasn't balls. Well, I think we should probably talk about the departed. The departed.

[00:09:59] So there's a lot of ways we could get into this, but I think I'll just start this conversation by saying that this is the craziest Jack has ever been in a movie. He's so insane in this movie. And I can't take my eyes off it.

[00:10:16] This guy is just he's clownishly insane. And it's almost like I'm going to be half Satan and half clown in this movie. And cops are saying he's a cop. So I won't look soft.

[00:10:37] It's when I tell you to dump a body in the marsh, you dump them in the marsh, not where some guy from John Hancock goes every Thursday to get a fucking blow job. Don't laugh. This ain't reality TV. And I love it. I'm just in for it.

[00:11:00] I'm I'm just just I would just love to watch this guy be this insane for two and a half hours as many times as I'm allowed to do it. So I mean, of course, you know, Dick Caprio is great and and, you know, Damon's great or whatever.

[00:11:18] There's a lot of interesting performances. There's a lot of overacting in this movie. You know, we could talk about the accents or whatever. But I just think that Jack is mesmerizing in this film. And I don't know. It's sort of a guilty pleasure for me anyway. Interesting.

[00:11:41] Because you really like this movie. I like it. Sarah asked me this this morning. She's like, did you do you like that one? You know what I really do and I know other people don't. I know that there's a lot of people who just can't stand this movie.

[00:11:54] I can't get enough. I definitely liked it more the second the second time I've watched it because the first time I was kind of like, all right, whatever. And I don't know it must have, you know, there's context, right? Like who knows when like, well, right.

[00:12:08] When if I was in the right headspace, distracted, you know, trying to keep up a little bit with like who's what and like, and I think if you, if you don't immediately catch, you know, who's working for what it's not that confusing.

[00:12:23] But if you don't catch it right away, like you could be have one of those like, okay, so wait a minute, who's what? Who's doing what now? My feeling with Scorsese is that he's a hit or miss director for me.

[00:12:34] Like there are some of his movies that I adore. And we'll watch like, La Citation of Christ. Yeah. Sure. There are some movies that I can't stand. Like I, I'm just not into taxi driver. I'm not into the aviator.

[00:12:51] There are certain movies that he does that I feel like are just misses whenever I go into a Scorsese movie, I think this could easily be the color of money or good fellows or it could be something else that I don't really enjoy very much.

[00:13:08] So it's almost like because he does have a spotty record, I'm never really hyped up for a Scorsese movie. Whereas I think a lot of people walked into this movie thinking, well, he's one of our great directors. I can't wait to watch the Wolf of Wall Street again

[00:13:24] or something like that. Right, right. Anyway, that is my feeling about Scorsese and I feel like he hits more than he misses. He probably also because he hits big, right? Right. Yeah, if he hits big, it'll be in Oscar conversation. Well, yeah.

[00:13:42] If he hits big, it becomes like a cultural touchstone. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I mean, you may not like taxi driver, but it's part of culture. You know, I mean, quotes and... Yeah, you are not going to get through film school

[00:13:58] and not watch taxi driver. Right. So it's like, so the impact that like, so, if he misses, you kind of move past it. But if he hits, it's, it's, yeah, it makes a difference. But this might be one of those like he wins his Oscar finally, right?

[00:14:15] Because that was the big thing, right? Like he doesn't, like he wasn't, he just didn't win Oscars. And so I think this one has a certain, I don't want to say a stink to it, but there is this feeling like,

[00:14:27] well, they felt like who knows how many Oscar, you know, worthy films he's got left. And you'd hate to miss out, right? On giving him one. Well, he's one of the, all right, so that's a good point. It's like, he's one of the great American directors.

[00:14:44] You've got at least 100 movies that are copying his style. He, you know, if you come up with a list of, you know, the top 100 movies, he's got at least three in there. And he's never won an Oscar. And so even though this one is necessary,

[00:15:03] I mean, is it even in his top 10? I don't know. Right, it's a good question. But you start to think, well, maybe, maybe we give him the Oscar. And maybe it was a poor year for Oscar, you know, for maybe movies or whatever,

[00:15:19] but it kind of helps to have the star power. It's like if Leo's going to be in a movie, it's going to get attention, right? And then, then you add all those actors around him. You can kind of create a recipe for Oscar buzz.

[00:15:33] I'm looking at the other nominated movies that year. And there was Battle, Letters from Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine and the Queen. Yeah, some good movies in there. I wouldn't like say like, oh geez, going up against. I mean, Little Miss Sunshine, I think it's pretty great.

[00:15:53] It's pretty great. It's sort of an atypical movie to win best picture. Right. That seems like a best supporting actor kind of flick. Pan's Labyrinth was in the same year. So yeah, and how many of those movies had Damon and DiCaprio

[00:16:11] and Nicholson and Martin Sheen's in this movie? Right. Alec Baldwin's in this movie. Can I just say that Mark Wahlberg, it's funny, it's like Mark Wahlberg has got to be the 12th best actor in this film. But I look forward to seeing so much. Right.

[00:16:35] Now we're liaised on to the undercover section. This undercover work is extensive. This year, give us his report, Sergeant Dignum. Okay. My people are out there. They're like fucking Indians. You're not going to see them. You're not going to hear about them except for me or Captain Queenen.

[00:16:49] You will not ever know the identity of undercover people. Unfortunately, this shithole has more fucking leaks than the Iraqi Navy. Fuck yourself. Fuck your wife. How's your mother? Good, she's tired from fucking my father. Do you have anyone in with Castello presently? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself.

[00:17:06] He's just totally committed to this role. Well, it feels like he wasn't even cast. He just kept forced, like he was that character and forced his way on the set. And Scorsese and everybody just like, I'm really nervous to tell him to leave.

[00:17:24] I love, I love Martin Sheen. I mean, I just, there's just so much to love about this, about this movie. It is not a perfect movie. This movie has tons of flaws. Yeah, it does. But it's in here.

[00:17:38] So here's the, and I think part of the reason why I liked it better this time is because I already kind of knew I was not, I didn't wasn't crazy about it, right? Like, so here's the Oscar winning Scorsese film.

[00:17:51] I'm thinking, well, he didn't win for good fellas. You know what I mean? I mean, obviously this didn't go up against it. Whatever, this is going to be better than good fellas. Right. Or at least it's got to be on par, right?

[00:18:03] You think because if it's like, hey, maybe, maybe good fellas didn't win because the movies were so superior. And by the way, they weren't, there's no way dances with wolves is better than good fellas. Kicking bird. So with this, I'm like, so your expectations are pretty high.

[00:18:20] You look at these actors and like you just talked about, like this cast is amazing. And so like, I think I was like, this is fine. So watching it this time, I really enjoyed it. I actually really, really enjoyed it and maybe even because of

[00:18:38] the flaws because I was like, oh, this, like, I kind of took all the Scorsese-ness away from it and just and just watched it and go look at these actors just chewing up the Boston scenery and some of them nailing the accents and some clearly not.

[00:18:58] The accents are all over the place on this movie. I mean, for some people that will ruin it. Sure. But for me, I kind of feel like if it's Jack, I kind of want to see Jack be Jack. Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:12] You know, if it's Gary Oldman, I kind of want to see him disappear into that part. That's kind of why I love Gary Oldman. But if it's Jack, I kind of feel like just be Jack. You've made a pretty good career, you know, by being that guy.

[00:19:28] So I don't know. I don't know the accents didn't ruin anything. Beware to cast Jack Nicholson because you want him to disappear. Exactly. I really want to do a bunch of rat noises. Of course you do. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you want to act like a rat?

[00:19:46] I love the idea of Scorsese going to Jack and saying, like I know you're semi-retired, but you know how like sometimes you're the devil in movies and sometimes you're just crazy in movies? I'd like to do a movie where you're both. Can I bring my own dildo?

[00:20:08] That was an improvisation. That was his idea. He brought his own dildo. It was a joke you just made, but it really happened. I know. That was not written into the script. That was his idea. Which seems like it might be a problem. Might be a problem?

[00:20:34] The very fact that like, did he go and purchase it? Did he have one of his like assistants go get it? Was it already on his person? I just watched the original Infernal Affairs and I think that the one thing that's missing.

[00:20:49] One thing that culture doesn't have the courage to do. What we doing this country? Amazing. Yeah, really adds a little, little spice, a little cumin to this mix. So I watched this movie about a week ago again and then I watched Infernal Affairs for the first time.

[00:21:13] The movie upon which this film is based. And then I rewatched the departed again after that film. The original is a decent movie. It is all in subtitles created against the backdrop of Hong Kong instead of Boston.

[00:21:34] But still all Boston accents, which I think isn't interesting for us. Aside from sort of setting it in Boston and having some of our great actors play the parts, a lot of the plot points parallel. The ending is a little different.

[00:21:53] I won't say more than that for people that want to see the original. But there was one thing about that Hong Kong movie that helped explain this movie to me. And it is that it ends with a quote from the Buddha. And I'll read it to you.

[00:22:15] So after the final scene of Infernal Affairs, you see against black, you see this text. He who is in continuous hell never dies. Longevity is a great hardship in continuous hell. So I had never heard that quote before.

[00:22:38] And it's almost to say that you don't get that one in a fortune cookie. Yeah, right. This is the difference between Buddhism in San Francisco and Buddhism in Hong Kong, I suppose.

[00:22:51] I came to the realization that I knew that Scorsese has been quoted a lot about the fact that he feels like he's going to hell. Have you seen any of this? No. OK, he's quoted a lot about him talking about his Catholicism.

[00:23:09] So he's very religious in terms of his worldview. But he himself that feels like he's going to hell and my feeling is what I realized is that's what made that Infernal Affairs interesting to him.

[00:23:26] He really is exploring the concept of the longevity of someone who's living through hell. And I kind of feel like this explains a lot of his movies. This is a man who's preoccupied with hell and who believes that he himself is going to hell.

[00:23:43] He's going to make movies over and over and over about people going to hell. I mean, you can name off a dozen movies. This is a slow descent into the gravity of this one kind of character. And Wolf of Wall Street or Goodfellas or what else? Taxi driver.

[00:24:04] Raging Bull. Yeah, Raging Bull. There you go. These are all people going to hell. And I feel like that's what this is. This is this is sort of in Boston. This movie set in Boston, but really it's set in continuous hell.

[00:24:19] These are people either by way of making the wrong choices consciously or, you know, trying to do the right thing, but end up, you know, fouling it up. Is there all people on their way to hell?

[00:24:32] And if you watch the movie against that backdrop and that's the caprio's character is is damned, right? Like that's everyone in this movie is damned. And in other words, if you know, if you don't want to say that a parted this movie could be called The Damned. Right.

[00:24:48] And, you know, you look at Leonardo that he, you know, but what does he want more than anything by the end of this film? He's like, I don't want this life. I want my life back. Right. I want my identity back. I want my life back.

[00:25:03] And if you look at it, go ahead. There is no life to be to be to be gained. No, this is your life. And if you look at Jack as a Satan character, it's like, what is the one thing that Satan can't do? The Satan cannot give life.

[00:25:21] Right. God can give life. Satan cannot give life. Satan's very powerful. You know, Satan has a lot of fun. Satan, you know, can do a lot of things, especially if he's living in Boston, but he cannot give you your life back.

[00:25:37] And I kind of feel like that's what Scorsese's filmography is all about. It's about his preoccupation with hell and the people who are going to hell. And I feel like that theme is in this movie more prominently than maybe any other movie he's done.

[00:25:55] That makes a lot of sense too, just because this movie is so tangled, like every character is so tangled and I don't even know what I'm rooting for. You know, you do have this like, well, I wish better for this Leonardo DiCaprio character just almost on principle, right?

[00:26:17] Not necessarily like we haven't really, we don't really establish him and I think he does a really interesting job. Well, he's not a sociopath, right? Matt Damon's character is a sociopath. Right. He is, but it also like, well, how much of that is this nature or nurture, right?

[00:26:33] I mean, he gets caught up by, you know, if we want for lack of a better or to default, your theme, he gets swallowed up by the devil at a young age. Absolutely.

[00:26:47] And so the thesis of the movie, I mean, they tell you a thesis in the first minute, the thesis is there's no difference between cops and criminals, right? Right. And so he gets caught up. Which essentially is saying there is no difference between good and evil. Right.

[00:27:03] That's right. The very first line of this movie was to say, you know, you know, we once had the church, which is just to say that we had each other. You know, that's kind of one of the first lines of the film.

[00:27:14] And so as early on, we established Costello as, you know, he's like a heretic. He's a mob boss. He's a pervert. He's a racist. You know, this guy is Satan incarnate, basically. And how do you exist in that guy's orbit and not get dirty?

[00:27:37] And that's what happens to DeCaprio. And then the question is, can you ever really wash that dirt off you? Right. And I think Scorsese's view of this is no, you can't. You got into this with the best of intentions, but you're damned like the rest of these guys.

[00:27:53] Like for me, that the watching it a second time, looking at a Matt Damon character. Yeah, as a sociopath, but like trying to find an opportunity to to see him as human. And he just, he does it.

[00:28:09] Matt Damon is sneaky good because he really, really pulls this off. And and this is a character. He's a sneaky good villainous actor. Right. And you, you know, he's like one of, you know, he's Jason Bourne and he's Goodwill hunting in all of this business.

[00:28:26] He's kind of known for those roles, but I could come up with four or five movies where he's just a really great villain too. Yeah. And his, I mean, his villainy in this one really, he makes some really good choices

[00:28:40] in this performance and that like he could have made him more sympathetic or more pride to, but he really just sort of plays it like, like honestly, like he's earnest in the sense of like, well, this is just what I do. Yeah.

[00:28:56] And and there is like, there's just no moral conflict for him. Right. But it's not done like over the top. It's just, it's super authentic. And then when you get to the end when, you know, he basically just gets rid

[00:29:13] of the devil, he's like, all right, well, I guess I'm, I'll just keep on doing it. I mean, he just doesn't stop. You know, it's just, it's, Well, he can't. Yeah. He's already chosen his path.

[00:29:23] He's already on the road to hell in sort of keeping with the, the one thing the devil can't do is create life. There is an impotency theme that's running through this. Right. Right. You know, it was like Jack doesn't have a son.

[00:29:38] And of course Damon is impotent or he's having, you know, problems in the bedroom and she shows him the sonogram, but you're kind of not sure is this really Damon's kid? We know this. Right. Right. Yeah. And he has almost no reaction, which I think is fascinating.

[00:29:57] He doesn't feel anything. Right. He sort of cut off that part of his emotionality. You know, to feel something would mean that you're, you've embraced a certain kind of life where if you're always pretending and almost everyone in this movie is pretending something.

[00:30:15] If you're always pretending, you never know which emotion is appropriate at that particular moment because you're thinking through all of the maneuvers. Right. And there's a fascinating part where like, you know, would the Castellos questioning the Caprio's a costigan character and basically, you know,

[00:30:39] accusing him of being the rat, the new guy. There's a lot of just lots of questions about you. You left, you know, when we were getting all the lists of everybody's, you know, identification and then he, he's pushing back and saying,

[00:30:55] you know, like, look, all these people have been with you for a long time. You know, they probably think that they could do it better. And you start looking at this crew and you're like, well, this crew seems

[00:31:07] like they seem like ideal lackeys except for one crew member. That's the crew member that's never there. And that's Sullivan, right? I mean, like Damon's character is really the one that like we're, we're, we're Castellos this kind of erratic, you know, wild guy in many

[00:31:26] ways. Sullivan could run that much more, you know, adeptly, you would think, right? Like, I mean, he, because like nobody would cross him because he's just as evil and murderous as Castello, but it hasn't driven his, him crazy yet. Right. Yeah.

[00:31:44] But he, and, but he, and so it's like, so I like that. There's such an undercurrent of who do you trust and the betrayal and it, and once you've created this world, what's like it does create what's the difference. Right? And that's it.

[00:32:00] So that theme of what's the difference goes all the way through, all the way through it. Right. Because even, even when Wahlberg gets his, you know, his, his version of justice, it's still vigilante. Right. I mean, That's right. It's not justice.

[00:32:18] It's just, it's not a clean up the garbage. He's not operating as a cop. He's operating as, as himself. And then it right there really is no difference between criminals and villains in this world. Right. And then it just ends, right? And then he goes off and it's

[00:32:38] like, it's, it's like, okay, well that's not like, like it's solved or at least in, you know, they're just gone. But then, but there's no, and there's like no justice in that because there's no, there's no revelation. There's no, he's just,

[00:32:53] you know, there's no, well now we know that he's, you know, it's been exposed. Yeah. I mean, I think that that is one of the nitpicks about this movie is that you could say, well, there's evidence that these guys are corrupt. Why didn't the psychiatrist

[00:33:08] character turn in this evidence? Yeah. That's to me the biggest gap. Right. Like it doesn't like, okay. So she gets the big reveal. You know, she discovers it and the punishment is we're breaking up. Right. And I think, I mean, the way that the only way I could

[00:33:27] make that work is that she is as, she is as corrupt as everyone else in this movie. And but for her it manifests as I don't want my child growing up thinking that his father is a criminal. So I'm going to, I'm going to kind

[00:33:46] of keep this under wraps so I can keep pretending to keep the even keel or whatever. She is, she's not above lying. Right. In fact, that's a key element of, you know, her and DeCaprio's dynamic, right? Like that's, he allows

[00:34:04] her to embrace that part. And that's where their relationship is sort of built on. It's the idea of falsehoods. How long have you been with this guy? My boyfriend. I would lie. Yeah, I would lie. You know, to keep things on an even keel. Right.

[00:34:36] This movie more than anything does kind of show the equal corruption of cops and robbers in a city like this. And a lot of movies have attempted to do this, but I feel like this is sort of my favorite depiction

[00:34:53] of that. And you've got a lot of symmetry in this movie, you know, you got one guy undercover for the mob boss and one guy undercover for the police. And this, this movie is all about the symmetry. Right. You are the mirror of me.

[00:35:11] And, you know, there may be other movies that have attempted to do that with cops and criminals. This happens to be my favorite. Well, and I really thought it was really interesting too when you have this final interaction with the Caprio and Sullivan character.

[00:35:27] He, you know, he's, I'm going to arrest you, but you're not a cop, you know, like, but you're, he's gonna, he's, that's him trying to get that identity back. Right. I need the world to know that I'm not a bad guy.

[00:35:44] And when Martin Sheen's character dies, like that link to his, to the identity he wishes he had is, dies with it. Yeah. And then so it's just, it's this like ever, ever opening chasm that just keeps swallowing and he just can't claw his way out.

[00:36:06] So I've been doing a lot of research on, on stories, like just what, what to do with a story, how to make a character compelling. I'm reading this book called Story by Robert McKee. They use in a lot of film classes.

[00:36:24] And, oh actually no, that's not where I got this. I was listening to another podcast with Craig Maison who did the most recent Chernobyl films and The Last of Us. Yeah, he, yeah, he was also, he also did The Last

[00:36:41] of Us. He's got a podcast where he talks about screenwriting and they were talking about the four F's. Like what motivates every single person in the world? You know, if you just boil it down, it comes down to the four F's.

[00:36:59] You're motivated by fight, flight, feeding or fornicating. You can boil down everything to those basic primary intentions. And I was thinking about that, this movie in those terms, I was thinking like, you know, just the most primary needs of humanity. If you can't procreate, you have a problem.

[00:37:29] Or if you're, you know, I guess one thing that Maison said was any movie that's about drugs or addiction is kind of a movie about feeding, fighting. And of course, if you're trying to stay hidden, you're fleeing.

[00:37:46] This movie does it really well with all of these primary motivations, fight, flight, feed and fornicate. And you know, it's what makes a character compelling and boy, you got a ton of all of that in this film. That's all the interaction with DeGraprio and the psychiatrist

[00:38:10] character. I mean, you get it all in there. You also have that scene with Alec Baldwin. He's like, you know, it's good to be married because, you know, people don't think you're a weirdo. Right, right. And women know that your cock works and, you know,

[00:38:30] you look like you got a little bit of money in the bank. These are all sort of how to sort of pretend to be normal in Boston. Right. And of course, this is the problem. This is the problem for Damon's character. He's got all of the problems. Right.

[00:38:48] Like his money's ill-begotten. He's like not normal at all. He's lived in a double life. You know, he's got all of the problems that make him kind of subhuman. Right. And that's what makes this particular worldview. Steve, who's this movie made for? It's a good question.

[00:39:07] I mean, it's like, I think if we follow what you were talking about, I think this is Scorsese maybe initially makes this movie for himself. Yeah, this is a movie just for Scorsese. Like this is part of his penance. Uh-huh. I was thinking also for people who,

[00:39:26] I mean, this is a movie for sinners. This is for people who like are depraved and like to think about being depraved. Right. So it's funny because I know that you've, some of the issues that you've had with the Scorsese films is that you've said you don't really,

[00:39:46] you don't love the portrait of somebody spiraling out of control. Yeah, it's sort of a biopic, but it's a biopic of a person who is becoming more and more depraved or spiraling into insanity or something like that. Right. And typically you get exhausted by that kind of thing.

[00:40:08] Yeah, I think it can be done well. You know, I think Wolf of Wall Street is a great example. Like that's just a fascinating movie. You have to, with Scorsese you have to be resolved that at the end of this movie there will be no redemption. Right.

[00:40:24] Which is just another way to say these characters are going to hell. Right. But you know, you sort of demythologize it a bit. But if you want a redemptive ending in a movie do not go to Martin Scorsese. Right. And do you prefer redemption?

[00:40:42] It depends on the movie. I usually do prefer redemption. Like if you look at my top 10 list there are usually movies with happy endings. But this is a movie absolutely without, I mean it may be the movie with the worst ending ever. So I don't know.

[00:41:01] I don't know if this is in my top 10 but I really do like this movie. Yeah, so it's interesting how, but there's something like I find fascinating about you liking this movie as much as you do because of what I know about you.

[00:41:14] And like this would be like up there if Heather's like, yeah, this movie is like crazy sweaty, but I can't stop watching it. Sure. Sure. Well, I do like Pulp Fiction. I think that Pulp Fiction is like it would be in the same algorithm. Right.

[00:41:32] If you liked the departed, you know, Netflix might also suggest to you Pulp Fiction or whatever. If it's done well, if the movie is done well and I'm entertained by it then I absolutely forgive the ending. CF my Game of Thrones experience. You could argue that Pulp Fiction,

[00:41:52] the Jules character is the closest we get to at least the pursuit of redemption. Right? Like we don't know if it resolves, but it certainly doesn't end in a way that says there's no redemption. Right? So there's like this interesting glimmer

[00:42:11] of hope there and there's a lot more whimsy. Right? So you're right. That is a movie with certain elements, at least enough redemption that you could imagine like well Jules is off walking the earth. But of course the other interpretation is that is like without legal tender

[00:42:32] Jules has decided to be a bum. So it's sort of a it's in the eye of the beholder, right? Butch escapes. And Zed is dead. Right. This movie no one escapes. Everyone's departed. Except for Mark Wahlberg. You don't get the sense that he's a very happy guy.

[00:42:53] You know, I don't imagine that Mark Wahlberg goes home to a loving wife and children. He's probably an asshole in every single aspect of his life. Problem solved. All right, I can relax. This is the guy who yells about everything. This might be the most enjoyable.

[00:43:14] I mean, I do. I enjoy Mark Wahlberg and the other guys. But that might be pretty great. And the other again, very similar character. Right. And I mean, give him Wahlberg credit. Right. I mean, he's made a fine acting career.

[00:43:31] But you look and you go, this would be the outlier if there was going to be one. But like what he does to this character feels pretty authentic, you know, for this film. I love to see him juxtaposed with Martin Sheen, who really is giving off this paternal,

[00:43:47] all shucks vibe. You know, he's, you know, they call him a good Catholic. His kids go in another dame. You get the idea that this is, this is the kind of guy you want looking after you. But he's also doing nothing to stop this guy. That's right.

[00:44:05] The very fact that he's willing to tolerate the rest of Mark Wahlberg's character. How's he wondering like, is this guy really all that good? Right. No, and that's I think the beauty of that, right? He just, it's like, is he ineffectual

[00:44:17] or is he really just like, no, no, this is how good cop, bad cop works. But it's sweetheart cop and just nightmare cop. I got a question. How fucked up are you? You look like a actress. Well, if I was, I'd ask you why you're a

[00:44:32] stady making 30 grand a year. And I think if I was Sigmund fucking Freud, I'd ask you why you're a lace curtain motherfucker like you doing in the stades. Families are always rising or falling in America, am I right? Who said that? Hawthorne. What's the matter, smart ass?

[00:44:52] You don't know any fucking Shakespeare? We have a question. Do you want to be a cop, but do you want to appear to be a cop? It's an honest question. A lot of guys want to appear to be cops. You gun bad, you pretend they're on TV.

[00:45:06] The respects are what do you want from me? You're not. I'm the best friend you have on the face of this earth and I'm going to help you understand something, you punk. You know fucking cop. He's right. We deal in deception here.

[00:45:21] What we do not deal with is self-deception. It's like kind of the old uncle and the school bully happened to be best friends, right? Love it. Fantastic. Genuinely, first time I thought genuinely surprised by Martin Sheen's exit. Yeah. Fantastic. I mean, Martin Sheen,

[00:45:42] this guy has been in some of the all-time great films. He's starred in some of the all-time great films. And in this film he's happy to like, yeah, I'm happy to play right field here. Yeah. I'm happy to bat ninth in this film.

[00:46:00] I'm happy to play second fiddle to Mark Wahlberg. Right. If it means making a better movie. Talk about a good Catholic. Yeah, that is a very Catholic move to yield to Mark Wahlberg. So one tweak that you think would improve this movie?

[00:46:13] I think the psychiatrist's character felt a little propish. Yeah, does Scorsese rate women? And so that was going to be my next question. I think the psychiatrist's character felt a little propish. I think the psychiatrist's character felt a little propish. Yeah, does Scorsese rate women?

[00:46:30] And so that was going to be my next question. Because I'm looking and I feel like women are just sort of like, they just sort of help move the men along a lot of times. I was just thinking of Color of Money. You remember how we loved,

[00:46:44] what was her name? Antonio Masterson. What was that actress's name? Mary Elizabeth. Mary Elizabeth Molly Masterson Antonio. McMuffin. She was amazing in Color of Money. Yeah. He was fantastic. And then Deborah Winger is an interesting window into this and good fellas. But you're right, he's really interested

[00:47:11] in men behaving badly. Right. In almost all of his movies. So you're right, that character could have been fleshed out. Because I think if you flesh her out more, her having the evidence and not doing anything with it, we don't have to like do these sort of like,

[00:47:30] you know, narrative gymnastics to make that make sense. And because it's an interesting dynamic between the three of them that like that she's sort of in the center of this as well. But I just didn't really feel like she just felt like somebody who was

[00:47:45] going to just spend most of the movie disappointed. Well, yeah, that's right. And she's a bridge, right? She functions literally. As a bridge between these two characters to kind of show their symmetry in a different kind of way. They're both sleeping with the same woman.

[00:47:59] And her role, you know, she like I said, she almost feels a little bit reduced to a metaphor, right? Which I will get to because my biggest, biggest week. You know, is, you know, it's the radical. It's the radical. It's the radical. It's the radical. It's the radical.

[00:48:21] It's the rat at the end. It's the rat at the end. It doesn't bother me. I don't know why it's sort of like. Okay, rat is said like probably, I don't know, 47 to 100 times in this movie. Or acted out. Or acted out like.

[00:48:38] So that was a hard part watching the second time. Every time the word rat gets mentioned, I just started, I got a little cringy. I'm like, it's coming. Why? Why is there a rat? Why does there have to be a rat? Like what, what is that moment?

[00:48:55] Like that is the moment where Scorsese completely undercuts. It's like, what are you doing? Like what? How does that help anything? Like, is there anybody going, oh, but there's that rat? Like what?

[00:49:11] Like it would have been better if the rat like turned to the camera and said something. Like at that point. Then it like the rat turns. The rat holds up a little sign that says Jesus says or something at the end. He just does the Buddhist quote.

[00:49:27] He says it. I don't know. I mean, it's such a unbelievably unnecessary moment. Yeah. And it's like in my mind, it was longer because of how much I hated it. So I was a little bit like little better with it because I'm like, all right.

[00:49:50] At least that's right. Like right there. But it just, for the life of me, somebody like. I get it. It's a legitimate criticism. For some reason it doesn't ruin anything for me, but I totally get it. My feeling is that. He didn't know if we understood.

[00:50:11] But that a rat is an animal. I was going to tell you my, I was going to tell you my tweet. All rats. Basically secretive nim. I thought this movie was going to be more about racial tension in Boston.

[00:50:37] He starts, you know, if you're going to drop the N word. In the first minute of a movie, you got to tell me that story. You want to hear it more? Well, I want, I want you to earn it.

[00:50:50] I want you to be like, I don't want this sort of be superficial. Oh, I see what you're saying. If you're going to do that at the beginning of a movie, this, this had better be a movie about race.

[00:51:01] You better be able to say something interesting that makes that character. You need to make that theme real to me. And I don't feel like that's what this movie does at all.

[00:51:14] I feel like there's a couple of things early on in the movie where they do talk about race in Boston, they show the, the documentary footage. You've got the voiceover from Jack and then you've also got DiCaprio mentioning something to his cadet buddy about being black and white.

[00:51:33] Right, right. Like you got it hard enough or whatever just being black and white. And then you have three things in the first 10 minutes of the movie and then don't do anything with race for the entire movie. Right. It seems like an oversight.

[00:51:49] And the one thing that I can kind of come up with if you were going to try to find a way into this topic is that why does he choose the cop that he does to reveal himself to at the end? Anthony Anderson.

[00:52:03] Yeah, so he has Anthony Anderson meet him on the rooftop and he's going to arrest Matt Damon. And he says, you know me. And I was almost thinking like, is this sort of without saying that

[00:52:16] he chose him because he knows he's never going to be fully accepted in the police force anyway. So he's kind of going to be a liminal character anyway because of the racism in Boston.

[00:52:28] This is the guy that is not going to be fully in on, you know, Team Cop or whatever. So but I feel like I'm almost I'm almost sort of talking myself out of that because I feel like if that was the story that you're going to tell,

[00:52:44] you got to give me more Anthony Anderson in this film. Right. Yeah. So anyway, that would be my tweak. Yeah. And I think also it's like, I think the one other aspect of it is Scorsese may have had no interest

[00:52:57] in making a movie about race relations in Boston, but to not show racism in Boston would be to not show Boston. OK, all right, I get it. I mean, it does establish Jack as just a holy evil character from the beginning.

[00:53:12] And I think that there's something there's something about Jack's charisma that even if he is playing Satan, you kind of like Satan when he's playing that role. And I think maybe Scorsese is like, you're not going to like this guy.

[00:53:26] I'm going to make sure you do not like this. Right. Were there any cliches, tropes or devices that you liked in this film? I think I am a sucker for the deep undercover. Sure. You know, I because I think I like I like the spiral more than you.

[00:53:48] In fact, I know I do. So watching somebody lose themselves on screen, I think it's always. I always enjoy that kind of fascinated by that. Baldwin with a Boston accent. Probably another trope I enjoy. Baldwin had a few really, really funny lines in this film.

[00:54:11] Steve, was this movie better or worse or on par with a Ron Howard film? I would say the overwhelming majority of it. I'd give a Howard plus four. The rat scene is a Howard minus 12. So this is a Howard minus eight.

[00:54:31] Well, you got it. You have to do like an aggregate, you know, you got to like factor in the screen time of the rat. Got it. Got it. I see.

[00:54:40] So the screen time of the rat was sort of like 20 seconds and a two, two and a half hour movie. Yeah. This still comes out as like a Howard plus plus like three. 20.8 or something like that.

[00:54:56] Okay. All right. Yeah, I'm going to say I like Howard plus four on this and I feel like it's high. I almost I'm tempted to go maybe a little Howard Howard plus three or something like that. So we're kind of in the same ballpark here.

[00:55:10] The acting is, I mean, how do you, the acting is really amazing. It is a joy to watch from that perspective. Right. I mean, like there's, there's like, I say the dialogue. This is where they, I think the acting raises the dialogue.

[00:55:25] I think there's some good dialogue, but it's definitely helped by the performances. Is there a half the battle one to grow on moment in this film? Yeah, just let Jack bring his props whenever you can't go wrong with Jack Nicholson bringing his own props.

[00:55:43] Yeah. He's sort of like a macabre carrot top. Steve, we haven't done iTunes reviews in a while. I don't know if you've been keeping up with their iTunes reviews. Now, I didn't know we were still on this podcast. We are and we do appreciate iTunes reviews.

[00:56:01] We got our first really bad review. I thought it would be fun to read it. Yeah. So it's, I just have to say, I like to think that the person is still listening just to see if we'll read it. This review is one star.

[00:56:21] It's from Arne Disney, A-R-N Disney. I don't know what that, I mean, is it, is this just Bob Iger? Is that what? Did we take a shot at a Disney production? No, maybe, maybe. Maybe. Oh, maybe we did. Maybe it was a white man can't jump.

[00:56:47] We said that it had kind of a Disney ending or something. So this, this reviewer says boring. That's the title of the boring one star. Literally boring and not fun. I think we know the age of this person just by the use of the word literally. Yeah.

[00:57:10] The hosts think that they're hilarious dot, dot, dot. Nope. No, they're wrong. We do think we're hilarious. I don't understand how are you arguing with that? Had to change the name because it was too hard to spell hashtag fail. Okay. Wow.

[00:57:34] So I first thought they were young, but the very fact that they're still doing hashtag commentary like that. Well, this is even worse. I thought for sure this was one of our kids, but this might be one of our parents.

[00:57:46] This is a baby boomer who is trying desperately to fit in with Gen Z. This is awesome. I love that. So anyway, Bob Iger if you're listening,

[00:57:58] I would recommend listening to whatever podcast that you did not like another 20 times because I guarantee you that we will raise the bar from boring to mediocre. Oh yeah, I'll stand by that.

[00:58:14] So white man can't jump just listen to that podcast and they're 19 times and I think we're good. I think we've solved that. Yeah, no cap. All right. So that's a good review. This is from the same person be roar.

[00:58:34] The title of the review is perfect pop culture nonsense. I think that summarizes us five stars. These guys cracked me up perfect listening on a Monday to get me laughing and in a good mood for the week.

[00:58:47] It's been fun to learn about the other podcasts that they're part of can't wait for more. I prefer that one. I feel that was pretty funny. Literally. Literally funny. Along the lines of pop culture nonsense. I'd like to ask you about your new purchase.

[00:59:08] Yeah, well it all kind of I think it all kind of ties in with today's movie right. Absolutely. I mean maybe maybe maybe not well thematically but in terms of where I went. Well no I think that there's a lot of connections.

[00:59:24] You know the werewolf being connecting with Nichols. There's just a lot there. So let's start at the beginning you've been thinking about a new tattoo. Well I'm thinking about a tattoo. You were thinking about your first tattoo.

[00:59:43] Well and talking to people in the tattooed community and please feel free to chime in and email us. If you're inked and you want to talk about it. Like there's a lot of emphasis put on that first one right.

[01:00:00] And then you know people get more I think it becomes a little bit more like yeah whatever you know.

[01:00:07] Not that it's not important but like I think in some cases you feel like you can have a little bit more like take a little more liberties once you've once you've already sort of broke the ice.

[01:00:16] Because when you do the first one you think maybe this will be the only thing that I ever do. And this is sort of this single tattoo will define me for the rest of my life.

[01:00:27] Right if I get no other tattoo then this is then the message I'm sending is this is all I ever needed for this and this is the message I get this is this is this is your second tattoo is a lot like your second child you're like whatever.

[01:00:42] Yeah I can I'll just have another one if this one doesn't work out. So like I probably I don't know if you know this about me but I had been talking about a tattoo probably since a middle school.

[01:00:54] You know as one does right when you're in middle school you like you think to yourself like oh man I want to get something like real cool. What was your first idea for a tattoo. You know when I was young.

[01:01:06] Something from Looney Tunes but like I wanted it to be like a more obscure character. Like like not a regular like it was like maybe the like the chicken. I got a good friend who has a Wiley Coyote.

[01:01:21] That's nice and he's holding up one finger and I was like what's the tattoo about he's like he puts up one finger when he gets a little light bulb and says super genius. So anyway. He went with the talking.

[01:01:36] It was a brave move that is that's probably the least embraced of the Wiley Coyote iterations is the one you were thinking something along the lines of Foghorn Lakehorn is that what you were thinking. Well the chicken hawk that went after you know the little guy.

[01:01:55] So that was that was like not right.

[01:01:59] You know not super obvious but like you know recognized that was kind of where I was at right and time went on and like then it just got to a point where I like even incorporated like the idea of getting a tattoo in my act because it's like I just it's like I would just spend I get buyers or more before I buy something kind of thing you know I just can't.

[01:02:18] Like I can't I couldn't even like I won't even get a bumper sticker because that just seems too permanent.

[01:02:24] You know I'm like you know yeah coexist seems like a good idea but maybe I'm more racist than I give myself credit for what if the day after you put coexist on your bumper you realize I'm sort of alt right deep down. Exactly.

[01:02:39] I slapped that thing on and then vote for DeSantis and it's like I don't know I'm just I just I'm digging and zagging all over.

[01:02:43] So but then you get to a point where it was like all right I like I like the show Ink Master I really enjoy like I don't enjoy those kinds of reality shows where like there's interesting art but also like people's lives are being ruined. Sure.

[01:02:58] I don't know if you ever seen it but like you know they'll be you'll take these artists and they all have to do they have to do tattoo styles that they maybe don't do.

[01:03:08] And I love the idea of like they're like OK today is like realistic portrait day and then somebody gets a person that has no idea realistic portrait and then they just have like this really like creepy looking version of their grandma on their on their thigh or something like that that tickles me.

[01:03:24] But I was like yeah you know I just like I taught me a little bit more about like all the different styles and artist that goes into tattoos and so I kind of got to a point where I was like well they got older.

[01:03:38] Maybe it's less about what the tattoo is specifically and maybe more about the artists behind it if I'm OK with you know I'd like some color I'd like it to be a little whimsical I'd like it at least you know not as I mean something but be something I am.

[01:03:53] I would like to enjoy.

[01:03:55] So watching Ink Master and always seem to really enjoy one particular artist Kelly Doty I really liked her kind of her new school stuff she likes she likes horror stuff but she also really loves like 80s pop culture and I just did a little bit of research on this this morning so new school is an actual

[01:04:16] recognize style in the tattoo world right kind of like more kind of caricature ish you know like a lot of big eyes kind of like you know yeah so we got real you know kind of a whimsical take on something right.

[01:04:33] I think it was yeah November of twenty twenty two.

[01:04:38] Heather's like why don't you just put an inquiry into her shop and see what that even means like see what it takes right so you know I filled out the form and say yeah why not right let's I had a little wine on board let's go for it and didn't hear anything till March March I get an email.

[01:04:58] And with all series of questions like what do you want what is this and I just sort of threw a bunch of stuff not a bunch but like I threw some ideas down then didn't hear anything and she closed her books for the shop and then I was like I guess that's kind of it right.

[01:05:12] And then August I get an email again like hey she's really excited about this idea can you hear some dates and it was like the next month and so I was like oh I got a really didn't it was like oh we might actually have to do this.

[01:05:26] And I may have to fly to Salem Massachusetts to make it happen so we had miles on the. On the Alaska account and just went for it and you went last week and this last week.

[01:05:39] So yeah I got there and then doing all the right things you know drinking lots of water lubing up the arm and all that good stuff and 10 and a half straight hours.

[01:05:52] One sitting one sitting one sitting one sitting like still not even sure like because I'm because I'm watching that show I'm like well some people just pass out or they're like their skin can't handle it like what happens if I get there.

[01:06:09] All the way to Salem sitting in the chair and like she's like yeah I can't I can't do this your body is you're no good so that was I think your body is a riding campus.

[01:06:24] Exactly like have you seen this thing I can't look at this for 10 hours. So I was you know and I hadn't even seen a design yet.

[01:06:35] Yeah so I get there and I'm just like sitting there in the waiting room just like I don't even know what I'm about to sign up for.

[01:06:43] And I didn't know it was going to be that long I thought it was going to be I knew it would be long but I was thinking maybe like six or seven hours which still was a lot right.

[01:06:54] Wait you didn't you weren't settled on as you flew all the way to Boston you were not yet settled on a design. Well I knew what we were going to do.

[01:07:04] Okay and because she I gave her some options and there was one she was really excited about so I knew I knew I was going to get Teen Wolf Duncan a basketball. Oh my goodness.

[01:07:15] I had thrown out some ideas like you know something Kurt Russell John Carpenter related maybe something lost boys.

[01:07:24] But I you know the Teen Wolf and the lost boys when I figured like might be a little bit more in her wheelhouse you know got a little bit of the little bit of the horror aspect but also some of that pop culture and

[01:07:36] And when she was excited to do the Teen Wolf one I was excited to basically just like I kind of just put it in her hands like right I mean that's when I talked about like choosing the artist might have been at that point more important rather than me trying to design something or overly explain it.

[01:07:51] So she showed me the thing I was like looks awesome let's go and it was a long time and a half hours so much movies. Oh you did very good.

[01:08:07] What movies did you watch well initially Teen Wolf and then we started chatting about various films we like and character actors so then we start watching Batman Returns and we watched Clue.

[01:08:24] Then we watched Rocky Horror Picture Show and watch Labyrinth and Beetlejuice and then Cabin in the Woods. Okay. So that's interesting because when I first saw your tattoo which is a beautiful depiction of Teen Wolf not dunking but dribbling the basketball. He's got the ball in the air.

[01:08:46] He's got the ball so I thought initially I thought why not have him dunking and I thought that was it but that was your original idea.

[01:08:54] Yeah she had said when you're doing new school and kind of like do these big heads and you're dealing with the hair it gets real convoluted.

[01:09:03] She's tried to design like the dunk and it doesn't work out so I mean he could be doing a skyhook he could be doing a variety of things but he's got the ball in the air at least.

[01:09:14] I like the idea if he's dribbling so badly that the ball is actually bouncing up near his head.

[01:09:23] And the sweat drops I think are to me like the sweat drops are wonderful you know he's got the full jersey oh and you you were wearing the jersey as well.

[01:09:34] I was wearing the yeah so I got there and since it's going on the shoulder she's like oh I'll tape up your shirt and I said what would it be easier if I was in a tank top.

[01:09:45] She's like well whatever makes more sense for you and so I took off my shirt to reveal the Scott Howard Beavers basketball jersey. She's like yeah that's way better you should do that.

[01:09:54] And I do like I do like you're wearing the jersey and getting the tattoo of the wolf wearing the jersey. Yeah so there's kind of like why this design you know one I think it looks it looks pretty great.

[01:10:13] I mean it's pretty rad design but I like basketball as a sport probably my favorite sport to watch. So there's a basketball aspect of it for sure.

[01:10:22] You know obviously there's the 80s there's the horror there is that Howard element you know even as a Warriors fan I mean even though he's it's Beavers jersey there's some Warriors coloring in there. So that's kind of fun.

[01:10:39] The sweat is kind of like an homage to my wife. Famously she hates sweaty movies yeah. And I know that the beaver is your spirit animal. That's true. So that's important. Yeah and I was very very pleased with it.

[01:10:59] It's still wrapped up and they wrap it in like this thing called saniderm and it's like a second set of the

[01:11:12] skin that sort of like keeps it just you know keeps it from the elements and it as it's oozing because it'll ooze out its it's like your body is trying to bite off this infection or what it perceives as such.

[01:11:26] And I'm walking around and say hello and it is really humid and we're getting ready to get our Uber to the airport and we're actually getting picked up outside of the gallery because it's kind of a centralized play stick.

[01:11:38] And so I'm reading up on like aftercare and all this stuff and one of the things that says like oh if you got the saniderm on you know make sure you're not sweaty.

[01:11:48] And I'm like wow I'm drenched in sweat so I take off my sweater and this thing has breached and I am just oozing all over myself. All over the sweater and our lift is like three minutes away. And I'm like oh crap.

[01:12:05] And so I pop into the gallery and I'm like hey do you have like something I could wipe this up with and they go everyone like it just like almost like alarms were going off like yeah you're not you're not getting on a plane. We fixed it.

[01:12:18] Oh Jesus. So they're like completely unwrapped me and they they're like cleaning it off and they go okay this part's gonna suck and then they just take a big old gauze full of alcohol and just wipe it. Holy Lord.

[01:12:35] That was probably of 10 and a half hours there was not any pain that was quite like that. It was like peeing on fire all over again.

[01:12:43] Oh my it was so painful that I just started laughing because like my body is like well we don't know what to do. But they said yeah they're all because you're gonna get on a plane and then the pressure is going to also wreak havoc on it.

[01:12:56] And so they wrap it up real tight. I get on the plane and sure enough like probably like three hours into the flight I can feel it now. So at least it was manageable but yeah we patched it when I got home.

[01:13:10] It's like it's in its own cocoon. Okay David this is where we're supposed to choose a side green or black. John my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So we're not fighting?

[01:14:52] I thought this is where HBO wanted us to like pick sides and fight and stuff. Don't worry I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like the show. The politics, the drama, the lore.

[01:15:05] It was made for the Lorehounds. And since we just finished recapping season one we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons.

[01:15:13] And with the season pass option and supercast listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot but probably positive takes.

[01:15:31] The Lorehounds house of the dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire in Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.

[01:15:43] The Lorehounds podcast feed each week for the dragonfire hot but probably positive takes.