#58 - True Romance (1993)

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[00:01:03] Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other both fiction.

[00:01:23] Today we take a look at the 1993 film True Romance. Written by Quentin Tarantino and

[00:01:29] directed by Tony Scott, True Romance is chock full of A-list actors doing bad things to

[00:01:34] each other while calypso music plays for some reason. Christian Slater and Patricia Arquette

[00:01:40] play lead while Gary Oldman has dreadlocks. With me as always to discuss this film is Dr. Anthony

[00:01:47] Ladon. Now that you've seen Gary Oldman in dreadlocks, do they appeal to you more or less?

[00:01:55] More. Because now I'm like, oh, maybe I could pull it off. But I would have like the

[00:02:00] balding dreadlocks, which is not a look I've ever seen where you just like have the full

[00:02:04] male pattern baldness but then just dreadlocks hanging down. Steve, what's your

[00:02:09] relationship with director Tony Scott? Our relationship is almost exclusively

[00:02:19] he makes movies and I sometimes watch it. Now how do you like these movies?

[00:02:24] I think it's a mixed bag. I do not like Tony Scott. Okay, I don't think I'm like,

[00:02:33] I don't get excited about Tony Scott. And I mean really. What do you think of when

[00:02:38] you think about Tony Scott? Beverly Hills Cop 2. Beverly Hills Cop 2 Top Gun. Sure. I could name

[00:02:46] four or five others but those are the ones that after those movies he could probably do

[00:02:51] whatever he wanted to do. Sure. My feeling with Tony Scott is that it's like he wants

[00:02:57] his main characters to be super handsome, super cool, super sexy, lots of fast moving

[00:03:04] vehicles. This is a world of cool that you are entering into and by proxy you can be cool

[00:03:13] as well. Not my favorite film. Right. Well, like Beverly Hills Cop 2 is significantly inferior to

[00:03:21] the original but I also hold Beverly Hills Cop in high regard. And two is entertaining

[00:03:29] and it was entertaining especially to 11 year old me because it was more Eddie Murphy.

[00:03:41] It was Eddie Murphy with explosions and whatnot and so that was like

[00:03:48] whereas Beverly Hills Cop felt like a cop movie with humor,

[00:03:54] Beverly Hills Cop 2 was an Eddie Murphy movie with explosions. Yeah, okay so Beverly Hills Cop,

[00:04:03] Axel Foley was smarter than everyone else and he was quicker than everyone else.

[00:04:11] Like he could just see a few steps ahead. It's weird to say this but he's a little

[00:04:18] bit subdued. I mean he's naturally funny because he's Eddie Murphy but it's an interesting

[00:04:24] performance. Yeah and it's very plot driven. I mean the characters are important but there's a

[00:04:34] plot and the characters are assembled in such a way to make this plot work. Beverly Hills Cop 2

[00:04:44] could have been any movie in the late 80s. Yeah, yeah that's right. Any cop movie, anything at all

[00:04:52] and it could have been like oh yeah here's a movie like oh well why don't we turn it

[00:04:57] into a Beverly Hills Cop 2 movie? What do we have to do? Just change the laugh.

[00:05:09] So for me true romance is an interesting thing because it has

[00:05:16] the unmistakable Tarantino dialogue. And sort of the concept right? The structure,

[00:05:25] the story, the level of violent bombast. Yeah it's got the bombast, you've got the

[00:05:34] MacGuffin, you've got you know basically philosopher gangsters which you know it's

[00:05:42] all kind of contrived but it's got that Tarantino voice that's unmistakable. But then you give it

[00:05:48] to someone like Tony Scott and I don't think it ruins it. It's just a different framing.

[00:05:57] It's like a Miami Vice frame. So I don't know, this is an odd movie for me because I love it

[00:06:06] and there's just like there's a fly in the ointment for me. Yeah I think it's,

[00:06:14] to me this feels like there is a dab of ointment on a fly.

[00:06:23] Oh you're flipping the metaphor on me? Yeah I mean so it's an interesting

[00:06:32] thing for me to view now because I never seen it before. This is your first viewing?

[00:06:37] My first viewing of it and so I've got such a you know looking at it, I mean I've probably

[00:06:43] seen as many Tony Scott movies as I've seen Tarantino movies but I've also seen every

[00:06:46] Tarantino movie. Yeah. So it's like if you told me that like if watching it at the time

[00:06:55] I'd be curious. I would probably be like hey you know what this is like

[00:06:59] watching one you know pick any of his movies The Last Boy Scout or Enemy of the State or

[00:07:07] you know The Fan and go in wow this is what a movie with that he makes with good dialogue is

[00:07:12] but it'd be easy to sort of still check out. Right. Because he just does, I feel like he

[00:07:19] doesn't know what to do and I can totally understand like Tarantino probably is the most

[00:07:25] adept at handling his vision right I mean that's that just kind of would make sense almost with

[00:07:33] anybody right anybody that's a good writer. I don't know can I introduce you to someone named

[00:07:39] George Lucas? Yes of course as you know our blockhead is perfectly legal.

[00:07:47] But I take your meaning yes Tarantino is the best. Well I don't think George Lucas is

[00:07:54] but I don't think he's good at either. I mean I think George Lucas exposed himself.

[00:07:59] Yeah. I think the thing with Star Wars you know and you and I have talked about this off-air

[00:08:07] is that those are B movies to begin with. Yeah. Those are B serials and the first one

[00:08:15] is a hugely popular hit because at the time no one had seen anything quite like it but

[00:08:20] it's a space opera. It was the best B movie ever made in fact it might have retired B movies

[00:08:28] for a certain amount of time. And if you look at it I mean it's if you look at it without

[00:08:31] the frame of nostalgia and just go well how is this as a swat buckling fantasy movie like oh

[00:08:37] that might be the worst sword fight ever. Ever. He makes up for it I mean in the

[00:08:47] hands of other directors that universe was absolutely improved. Well exactly so that's

[00:08:55] so I guess the point I'm making like I think actually proves my point that like you know if

[00:09:01] you're a good visionary and if you're a good writer you probably have a better way to

[00:09:05] to I think George Lucas did exactly what he should have done with what he made in Phantom

[00:09:09] Menace. I mean like that's exactly what you deserve for that vision. Are you blinded?

[00:09:15] All right so Tony Scott okay so here's how it goes down. Tarantino is struggling for about 15

[00:09:22] years trying to break into the movie business. I wrote a script called The Open Road in like

[00:09:29] at least in handwritten pages just getting up to page 500 all right but I knew after

[00:09:34] I'd written The Open Road that the next time I tried to write something that this would be the

[00:09:40] one and it was the very next one I tried was True Romance but there was also something else

[00:09:45] about True Romance that led up to it is I was I had tried to direct a movie and actually oddly

[00:09:53] enough the movie I tried to direct it was called My Best Friend's Birthday. I tried to do it on

[00:09:56] 16 millimeter and the scene about how I'd fuck Elvis because that was a monologue from

[00:10:02] My Best Friend's Birthday that I said in the movie and then what ended up happening is I put

[00:10:08] it together and I kind of didn't have what I thought I had it wasn't that good and so I just

[00:10:12] decided well you know what okay it just turned out to be nothing but after being depressed

[00:10:19] like a little bit I got over my depression. I'm pretty good about that and I looked at the good

[00:10:24] side of it and the good side of it was the fact that I had taught myself how to make a

[00:10:28] movie. This was my first script ever done ever finished so then I wrote it and then tried

[00:10:35] basically for the next five years to try to get it made and it never happened but no one was

[00:10:40] taking it. A lot of people had read this script and everything and some people liked it and some

[00:10:43] people didn't actually I mean a lot of people actually didn't. Okay I meet Tony. Tony reads

[00:10:48] Reservoir Dogs he wants to do it I say no I can't I'm gonna I'm gonna do this but I send

[00:10:53] him True Romance and Natural Born Killers to read see if he wants to do those and I really

[00:10:59] have always thought about those first three scripts I wrote you know that's that's that

[00:11:04] they are completely my first chapter as an artist you know in this industry as an artist

[00:11:10] my trajectory everything you know my the original scripts for True Romance and Natural

[00:11:14] Born Killers and Reservoir Dogs they all three kind of fit together. Which kind of creates

[00:11:18] something of a cinematic universe he carves this massive script up into smaller scripts

[00:11:25] and the two that kind of come together are True Romance and Reservoir Dogs and Tony Scott

[00:11:32] wants to buy both of them and what Tarantino does is that he says you can buy one sells True

[00:11:41] Romance for 50 grand and then with that 50 grand he decides he's going to do Reservoir Dogs himself

[00:11:48] now I'm totally glad that at this stage that Tony Scott is willing to seed Tarantino

[00:11:59] and honestly like you know Reservoir Dogs is like shot most of the scenes are shot like in a

[00:12:05] diner in a warehouse it's it's a very very low budget movie which makes the exchange much more

[00:12:11] wise because he couldn't take fifty thousand dollars and probably do much with a True Romance

[00:12:16] that's right and so so at this point in Tarantino's career this movie should be in

[00:12:25] the hands of someone like Tony Scott I mean listen to the cast of this thing I mean I don't

[00:12:30] know your friends about Christian Slater but Patricia Arquette, Dennis Hopper, Val Kilmer,

[00:12:36] Gary Oldman, Brad Pitt, Christopher Walken, Samuel L. Jackson, Michael Rapopour,

[00:12:44] Gandolfini, Chris Penn, Tom Sizemore I mean and Brad Pitt Brad Pitt's in this movie

[00:12:54] so there's no way Val Kilmer basically plays a part where you don't even really see him

[00:13:00] all that well Val Kilmer you would see his finger more than anything you would have no idea

[00:13:04] you would have no idea that this was Val Kilmer if you didn't see his name at the beginning

[00:13:10] of the film so and there's some big set pieces in this movie and there's some interesting

[00:13:18] camera work and just the cinematic difference between all of the Detroit scenes and then all

[00:13:28] of the LA scenes like it just brings a different tone to the movie so this I think this was

[00:13:39] even though I don't like Tony Scott usually I think that this is at this stage this is what

[00:13:46] needed to happen and then of course you add all of the Tarantino dialogue to these amazing actors

[00:13:57] and this film is really a really quite a remarkable thing so you saw it for the first

[00:14:04] time last night what do you what do you think about this movie um I think it's fun I was

[00:14:11] curious to see how uh Tarantino's writing would translate through Tony Scott's lens

[00:14:19] yeah and in that way I was probably uh secondarily entertained um but it was interesting

[00:14:26] that I could not stop thinking about that almost throughout the entirety of the movie

[00:14:31] it was very hard for me to dive into the world because I'm like I don't think Tony Scott

[00:14:37] quite knows what to do with this level of grit because um what because what Tarantino famously

[00:14:47] does at least from my perspective is is he will bask in those moments he will bask in the

[00:14:55] dialogue he will let the dialogue almost the absurd juxtaposition of dialogue to the what's

[00:15:01] going on um just stew for a while and that and that creates tension and I think that's no more

[00:15:11] apparent than the walk-in Dennis Hopper uh exchange because it just it's crazy how I just

[00:15:22] all I could think of the whole time is man if if this was Tarantino directing it this would

[00:15:26] feel way more tense and it just didn't and uh and it in in some ways I mean obviously there's

[00:15:35] problematic dialogue in there anyway but I mean it's not just the dialogue

[00:15:41] it's problematic in any number of ways I mean just pick a way it's not just right

[00:15:49] it's not just the words it's the content this is one of my proudest moments uh of

[00:16:00] my entire career this scene the scene actually kind of the speech the Sicilian speech came about

[00:16:08] in real life through two friends one was um uh we're kind of badass older black guy that was

[00:16:19] kind of like um there's my mom and then her best friend was a woman named Jackie and she was uh

[00:16:25] she was black and she was like my second mom kind of you know all you know through my entire

[00:16:29] childhood in teenage years and she had a brother um who was no longer with us anymore

[00:16:37] who'd spent some time in jail and his name was um Don uh or uh uh Big D was actually his

[00:16:47] most commonly used nickname and uh Big D has shown up in a lot of my movies uh Sam Jackson's

[00:16:54] uh little bit that mostly got cut out by the MPAA uh in the opening scene with Dretzel he's

[00:17:00] playing Big D uh that's his if you read the script this is his character's name is Big D

[00:17:04] and um and he used to tell me about history and stuff and he told me way back when all right

[00:17:13] literally when I was about like you know 10 or 11 or something like that about how uh uh the

[00:17:19] Moors conquered Sicily and how the Moors were black and they start fucking the Sicilian women

[00:17:24] and that's why uh Sicilians look the way they do today it's Christopher Walken playing the

[00:17:28] Sicilian uh which sure which in the scene calling out that Sicilians have dark skin

[00:17:36] Christopher Walken doesn't that? Ghost White Christopher Walken yeah so but I mean what I'm

[00:17:43] saying is that like if that had been directed by Tarantino I think I think the uncomfortability

[00:17:50] of the language and the and the concept and uh it would have not necessarily been forgiven

[00:18:00] but I think it would have maybe added to the tension and the and the discomfort of that scene

[00:18:06] and so the scene just becomes kind of uncomfortable because I kind of it just feels like I don't

[00:18:10] think he knows what to do with this script I mean I think he he's moving it along from a

[00:18:14] narrative perspective and like just kind of moving the plot along but I didn't feel like

[00:18:18] he knew how to wait in certain scenes and and and let let the absurdity of the dialogue or

[00:18:26] the notion uh do its thing right because I just felt like it it's it's way more Tony Scott than

[00:18:32] Tarantino in my opinion and I mean you might change your tune on this if you watch it a few

[00:18:37] more times but I you know we just recently uh redid Pulp Fiction right? Right. Just thinking

[00:18:45] several times in Pulp Fiction there's this appreciation of the pause you know there will be

[00:18:53] a dialogue and then there'll be a long pause and it's almost like Tarantino allows these

[00:19:03] actors to kind of make a meal out of the moment

[00:19:07] and this you know Tony Scott's fast pace and and you know big colors and big lights and

[00:19:12] camera angles and smoke and steam and you know machines that's not really Tarantino's thing

[00:19:22] and so a scene like that which I kind of felt like I could hear the Tarantino bleeding through

[00:19:29] that scene maybe maybe more so that scene I thought I hear Tarantino's voice in this

[00:19:36] scene maybe more than any other scene but your I guess your point which is well taken is that

[00:19:43] it would certainly have felt different uh if it was Tarantino. Yeah and like I said I think

[00:19:50] it was a matter of like wow this script is amazing this dialogue is amazing um and Tony Scott's

[00:19:56] like let's see what happens you know uh and I just didn't feel like he was sinister enough

[00:20:04] for the scenes that required that so so I feel like the the bombast moments were just sort of

[00:20:11] like that as bombastic as one might expect considering all that's going on and it's a lot

[00:20:18] of crazy stuff's going on there's no question about it. No I don't have a long history with

[00:20:22] this movie either I only saw it for the first time a few years ago and I feel like half of my

[00:20:28] enjoyment is that sort of meta critical aspect where I'm thinking that scene right there

[00:20:37] gets re-tooled or reframed and put in pulp fiction or oh I can see how that led to this

[00:20:45] scene in Kill Bill and so I feel like you see a lot of the Tarantino DNA in this movie

[00:20:53] and it's almost like it's um it's like the batter it's like the batter of a really good cake

[00:21:01] it's like it's not baked it you know the batter is a different experience than the cake

[00:21:06] but you know it's a good you know licking the bowl is fun sometimes. Yeah but as you eat the

[00:21:13] cake you go man I'm kind of wish I would just lick the bowl. So I feel like I don't know what

[00:21:20] I would have felt like if I had seen this movie first. I think this is like for people who don't

[00:21:26] like coffee but they love the way coffee smells. Yeah I could see that now I do feel like

[00:21:34] there are a few scenes in this movie that are singular. Have you ever seen

[00:21:43] Gary Oldman have you ever seen a character like Gary Oldman's character?

[00:21:48] Gary Oldman is incredible I want to see a movie where it's Gary Oldman and Val Kilmer's

[00:21:53] Ghost of Elvis just I don't even care what they're doing I don't care if they're

[00:21:57] playing Atari. Drexel Spivey playing a pimp but also you know he's he's dabbling in a lot of

[00:22:07] things. A little bit of cultural appropriation. Yeah a little bit a lot of

[00:22:15] I mean this is the guy that did Dracula this is the guy that played Winston Churchill

[00:22:21] He was a hard-boiled detective in Batman. You're a Gary Oldman guy.

[00:22:29] Gary Oldman can do whatever he wants and he does. He walked in to read at

[00:22:35] a true romance and they just said pick a character it's yours I don't even care

[00:22:42] They had to talk him out of playing Alabama.

[00:22:52] Now as someone who likes Gary Oldman and having never seen this movie

[00:22:58] I just want to get that sort of visceral reaction. Oh what a treat I mean I was immediately

[00:23:04] like okay okay now we're cooking and then I'm like oh man I would and then I had that moment

[00:23:08] where I'm like kind of would have loved to have seen Tarantino direct Gary Oldman in this role

[00:23:16] I mean look if it was Tarantino then Sam Jackson would have been in the role

[00:23:22] instead of being killed within 30 seconds of him coming in the room

[00:23:27] Sam Jackson would have been the Sicilian

[00:23:34] I love uh this movie has so many small parts that are just like like you want to see a whole

[00:23:40] mostly small parts oh you want to see a whole movie of all of the bit players in this film

[00:23:46] yeah it's wild how uh how it attracted such uh such big names so I guess Appatao decided to

[00:23:54] create Pineapple Express basically entirely on the Brad Pitt character in this movie

[00:24:01] oh is that right he thought well what if Brad Pitt actually went after the Italians after

[00:24:07] they left the room and that was sort of the seed of Pineapple Express to me it's amazing

[00:24:14] that Brad Pitt isn't in the Christian Slater role right but I kind of like Christian Slater

[00:24:22] in this and I kind of like Brad Pitt doing what Brad Pitt does in this movie

[00:24:29] hey get some some beer and some there's some cleaning products

[00:24:36] I love Tarantino's dialogue I do sometimes find that I don't need his voice in every character

[00:24:46] and what I mean by that is that it's almost every room you go in someone's got a very

[00:24:53] strong opinion a very considered point of view and a perfect monologue to deliver on that

[00:25:02] particular point and what I'm missing in Tarantino's movies are characters like

[00:25:09] Brad Pitt like this guy is just baked that's there's no more there's there's nothing more

[00:25:16] to him that's you don't need to know anything else he his brain is baked

[00:25:23] and you need an actor to deliver that guy well and it to me it's just perfect that it's Brad

[00:25:34] Pitt and I don't know in retrospect it's kind of funny because he's like become A-list movie

[00:25:40] star at this point in time he was the perfect stoner and and I I can't imagine that that

[00:25:51] performance being loquacious so that is my little monologue on Brad Pitt I can see that yeah and

[00:26:00] there are like um I think in pulp fiction at the uh at the drug house you have the little

[00:26:07] little moments of that I think with Roseanne Arquette um I think you get you get little

[00:26:13] glimpses of uh of some of those types of characters but you're right I mean I think

[00:26:18] there's so much there's so much that he wants to to have said that everybody gets a chance to say

[00:26:23] something James Gandolfini now I am not a soprano's guy so I I've only seen a few episodes

[00:26:34] of the sopranos culturally I know all about the sopranos because I've heard people talk

[00:26:38] about the sopranos but I don't really view Gandolfini through that lens um but just

[00:26:46] getting this little snippet of Gandolfini in this movie I can't look away he this guy is just

[00:26:53] he's like uh he's like a beacon of evil yeah he does he I think does a lot to bring the

[00:27:04] like I said some of that sinister patience and I don't know if that's like maybe almost

[00:27:10] sometimes you almost wonder like does a performance force the director's hand

[00:27:14] um because I mean it's it's such a uncomfortable and brutal scene anyway like I think some of the

[00:27:21] issues I have is like the the cutaways back to Christian Slater and like you're kind of like

[00:27:26] oh I hope he gets there in time kind of thing it just didn't I don't feel like that was paced

[00:27:31] well um can't wait let's talk about that for just a minute Patricia Arquette is being

[00:27:37] brutally beaten on her way to being murdered by a guy that I just described as a beacon of evil

[00:27:48] at the same time at the same time Christian Slater is talking to a complete stranger about

[00:27:56] a magazine article about Elvis Presley where he criticizes the fans

[00:28:03] that didn't work for you no and that's the thing is like that was supposed to work better

[00:28:12] because there's a lot there that was like ah this is great but it's not it was a pacing issue

[00:28:18] um because I think I think you should stay in those moments even longer so that way you almost

[00:28:23] because I think Tarantino would have gotten you to kind of almost forget what was going on

[00:28:27] in the hotel like he would draw you into that other side this feels like a Tarantino

[00:28:32] appreciation podcast at this point but like I feel like it's true just in sure there's

[00:28:37] that and I think there's also a Tony Scott I don't appreciate part of this podcast right

[00:28:42] where I think if they had taken time we're like also now you're into this conversation

[00:28:45] he'd almost trick you into forgetting and then boom bring you right back into that world

[00:28:50] and you'd be like oh man you know so I think there were opportunities let's set this

[00:28:54] aside I think that's what it's supposed to be laid out right it's supposed to be this like

[00:28:58] like not only is supposed to be tense but like this is what what's going on instead I mean

[00:29:02] ordering okay giant chili chili burgers and chili fries and a diet coke so let's set that

[00:29:08] scene aside Kill Bill volume two uh Daryl Hannah is about to buy a Hanzo sword for a

[00:29:14] million dollars and in the briefcase is a black mamba and when dude opens up what's his

[00:29:24] name again dang it Bill's brother but but yeah when when bud opens up the briefcase

[00:29:34] black mamba bites him in the face bud I'd like to introduce my friend black mamba this is bud

[00:29:44] you know before I picked that little fella up I looked him up on the internet

[00:29:48] fascinating creature the black mamba listen to this

[00:29:53] in Africa the saying goes in the bush an elephant can kill you a leopard can kill you and the black

[00:30:05] mamba can kill you but only with the mamba and this has been true in Africa since the dawn of

[00:30:11] time is death sure hence its handle death incarnate pretty cool its neurotoxic venom

[00:30:23] is one of nature's most effective poisons acting on the nervous system causing paralysis

[00:30:29] the venom of a black mamba can kill a human being in four hours if say bitten on the ankle

[00:30:34] or the thumb however a bite to the face or torso can bring death from paralysis within 20

[00:30:41] minutes now you should listen to this because this concern to you the amount of venom that

[00:30:49] can be delivered from a single bite can be gargantuan you know I've always liked that

[00:30:55] word gargantuan so rarely have an opportunity it's all very calm calmly delivered while the

[00:31:01] person is on the floor so that scene is absolutely the same scene with Gandolfini after he's just

[00:31:12] beat up Patricia Arquette but what the kill bill scene doesn't have is it doesn't have the

[00:31:19] cutaways right for whatever reason it just feels like the Tarantino scene is just that much more

[00:31:28] patient and significantly better in my mind yes now I will say that I don't think it ruins

[00:31:41] Gandolfini's performance no no no and I think like I said I think that's that's great the

[00:31:48] performance is great that scene is great and he's got these two scenes that he's shooting

[00:31:52] independently of each other and then it's how he decides to put them together to build up the

[00:31:56] tension so I wanted that the juxtaposition of like there's an intentional point to have

[00:32:06] be doing frivolous things while something terrible is happening at the same time and so in order for

[00:32:12] that frivolous thing to feel even more tense and I think I think it the way that it's written

[00:32:17] is probably to do that kind of trick where you're like getting caught up in uh in this

[00:32:25] other frivolous world that you're like no no no no no no I don't like you got to hurry up

[00:32:30] but at the same time it's like there should be moments where you like also can get kind of

[00:32:33] like lulled into it that's just my thought let's have the uh slater conversation is he good in this

[00:32:42] movie yeah I think I think Heather would disagree I don't think she found him very

[00:32:53] compelling as this character um I think he's good at parts and not at others and I don't

[00:33:01] know and I don't know what to put that on um because I really did think it was I really

[00:33:09] bought him early so then when he goes and he uh confronts Drexel I'm like whoa that's that's

[00:33:16] quite the shift um so I felt like there was a certain sociopathy that he's obviously

[00:33:23] demonstrating but like sometimes it seemed like he was flatter than I would have liked to

[00:33:28] have seen in other scenes I mean this guy he's a wannabe Elvis I mean he loves Elvis so much that

[00:33:36] his um his psyche is Elvis like whenever he's looking in the mirror talking to himself it's

[00:33:43] Elvis's voice talking back to him like is he crazy um right or is this you know is there's

[00:33:51] just a quirky bit of filmmaking to kind of give us a different perspective on what's going on in

[00:33:59] his head so if you well he seems to be yeah he seems to be interacting to some degree right

[00:34:05] I mean so I mean I the film is trying to tell me that this guy is super cool and yet I'm

[00:34:11] thinking the whole time I'm thinking no he's he's wannabe Elvis he works he works at a

[00:34:19] comic shop and uh you know wants wants to take this poor woman to three kung fu movies

[00:34:29] right um what is your feeling about Christian Slater kind of as a whole it's

[00:34:39] so I don't have a lot of like I know he's done like some stuff kind of lately

[00:34:43] like really bad things right wasn't that one he was in um I always kind of felt like

[00:34:49] Christian Slater was uh close to being somebody that I would be interested in

[00:34:55] like he was the it guy for a minute for a minute he was he was like he's going to be

[00:34:59] the next Jack Nicholson whether you like it or not he's going to force it on you and so like

[00:35:05] you know so there was a lot of talk about so the same way that kind of people talk about

[00:35:09] Keanu Reeves is sort of being like one-dimensional it's like I feel more

[00:35:13] that way probably about Christian Slater than I think I do about Keanu even though I know

[00:35:18] why people say that about Keanu because I just feel like because he does seem like he's uh a bit

[00:35:24] more of a of a persona maybe like I can't tell is like are you really this slick and all the

[00:35:32] time or and then when I see him try to go off type it feels like like it doesn't work I'm

[00:35:37] like well maybe that is who he is see I feel like with this movie you could probably slot in

[00:35:45] 10 different actors we could probably name 10 different actors to slot into this

[00:35:49] and they would all work just fine um I don't think anyone just anyone could pull off this

[00:35:56] role I don't think he's bad in this movie uh I think it actually kind of works with him in

[00:36:03] this movie but I don't think it needs I don't think this movie needs Slater in the same way

[00:36:09] that Pulp Fiction needs Travolta but I don't think he makes the movie worse

[00:36:15] I yeah I don't know that he does I think he's a neutral which maybe in its own way is a criticism

[00:36:23] because wouldn't you want somebody to to to make you I don't know make you feel more

[00:36:32] compelled every time they come into the into the room I just felt it was to me it was one of

[00:36:40] those things where you're like any time they interact yeah like he would interact with

[00:36:45] somebody who was clearly a higher uh you know profile actors like it seemed a little bit more

[00:36:53] like jarring from a juxtaposition standpoint um uh so the way I view this movie is that

[00:37:05] this is Tarantino and he's he's talked about this this is Tarantino he doesn't have really

[00:37:10] any experience of women he doesn't really know what women are like uh you know he's this dorky

[00:37:16] guy working at a video store and this is kind of wish fulfillment like he longs to be cool but

[00:37:25] he's he's just the least cool guy ever and so everything he knows about cool he's learned from

[00:37:36] watching movies and I mean it's funny because like you know none of this stuff happened to me

[00:37:40] all right you know I never met some you know cool hooker or pretty much any girl around

[00:37:46] that time and um not at the time I wrote this anyway and that's part of this movie

[00:37:52] all right is the fact that I was 25 and I really never had a girlfriend and so what happens

[00:37:59] like he's this is like a little his little fantasy it's like I work at a comic shop

[00:38:06] um but my boss hires a call girl to do some sort of improbable meet cute at a movie theater

[00:38:17] she likes kung fu movies she watches three movies with me we make love but then she falls

[00:38:24] in love with me you know this is all right this is all just absurd the whole thing is absurd

[00:38:34] but it's almost like Tarantino is about to turn his nerdiness

[00:38:41] into an sort of auteur filmmaking career um so I almost forgive the nerdiness because I know

[00:38:51] what it's going to become later uh so I don't know this film is really dorky it's really

[00:38:58] unlikely it's totally ridiculous at times but I think it's a fun ride I like it

[00:39:06] it does especially if I think if I'd seen it real time it would feel like a little bit of a

[00:39:12] gateway right into the world of Tarantino and this sort of stuff is happening right

[00:39:17] because you've got natural born killers and you've got you've got this uh anti-hero thing kind of

[00:39:24] like kind of on the rise it feels like and natural born killers and I think you see the

[00:39:31] dna of that in this in this movie too right sure um again another movie that Tarantino wrote

[00:39:38] and then was completely rewritten this movie was basically Tarantino's movie except

[00:39:47] in the original screenplay christen christian slater dies he dies at the the you know the

[00:39:53] drug house shootout so would you have liked this movie better if he you know lives hard

[00:40:03] lives fast and leaves a beautiful corpse at the end for this movie I the way well okay

[00:40:12] maybe for his movie but for this Tony Scott movie I think it was fine that he lived

[00:40:18] at least it then explained the obnoxious island music I was gonna just say the uh the hon

[00:40:25] Zimmer uh you're so cool uh steel drums I I was just like oh my gosh there's no way that

[00:40:34] would be in a Tarantino film but then of course when you get to that last scene on the beach

[00:40:40] you realize okay that's that's what's going on here we're well I kind of knew that like

[00:40:45] immediately I'm like oh this is not cute or clever enough to just have this juxtaposition

[00:40:52] it's got to be like a foreshadowing so then I kind of got that sense and then when it

[00:40:55] happens you're like man we're fine is there a trope a cliche or device in this movie that you enjoyed

[00:41:07] um the Tarantino stuff that's that's not a trope he's all trope I like when there's a

[00:41:20] shootout and at least 10 bottles of high-end liquor get blown away

[00:41:28] and it works every time it works every time I want to know what how you felt about Saul

[00:41:36] Rubenek I like Saul Rubenek oh yeah actually anything anything with uh with Pinchot uh

[00:41:48] I mean there was some there was he was he was great by the way

[00:41:52] Pinchot was amazing Pinchot's so good in this movie and he's also in Beverly Hills Cop right

[00:41:59] right but not too um like legitimately fantastic yeah very convincing um like

[00:42:09] that's the range on this guy good acting chops in this right like there's some comedy there's

[00:42:15] there's a lot of comedy right I mean a lot of like funny stuff but he doesn't like he but

[00:42:21] he performs very well in other in other scenes where it's a little more dramatic and he's

[00:42:26] legitimately kind of um big timing Christian Slater like I'm a big deal and you're not

[00:42:36] and yet you put him in the room with Rubenek and he's believably a lackey right

[00:42:42] uh you put him in the car with cocaine all over his face well he's throwing up after a roller

[00:42:49] coaster I mean I'm kind of amazed like looking back I'm kind of amazed at this guy I'm kind

[00:42:57] of surprised that after this role he didn't have a lot of other opportunities yeah was it

[00:43:08] does this I mean are we just like overlooking the shadow that Balki Bartokomos casts over

[00:43:13] this guy's career yeah possibly right because I think I mean since I didn't see it at the time

[00:43:18] I wonder if it would have been like hard for me to be like that's Balki yeah you probably

[00:43:22] would have you know like what it would it would have felt like what it felt like

[00:43:25] stunned casting but if you let's just eliminate uh perfect strangers from the equation

[00:43:33] you walk out of Beverly Hills Cop and then you walk into this movie you're thinking what

[00:43:40] can this guy not do right this guy is amazing yeah uh so Bronson Pinchot uh just uh a tip

[00:43:49] of the hat to you sir fantastic you know who else was fantastic in this movie um Chris Penn

[00:43:56] oh yeah legitimately funny very good like just legitimately funny uh in an understated way

[00:44:05] I could watch an entire I would watch four buddy cop movies with Tom Sizemore and Chris Penn

[00:44:13] totally those guys had immediate chemistry I love those two guys I wonder if Bronson Pinchot

[00:44:22] because you figure because perfect strangers goes to 93 this movie comes out in 93 did the movie

[00:44:29] second sight with John Larroquette just absolutely destroy any possibility that he could have like

[00:44:34] a major role never saw second sight where Bronson Pinchot is the uh is the psychic

[00:44:43] that's helping John Larroquette um I believe he's like a uh like a private eye or something

[00:44:48] so trying to solve the crime I know what I'm going to be watching tonight sounds amazing

[00:44:59] oh I remember this uh remember the trailer for this very specifically uh Patricia Arquette um

[00:45:11] did we need this amount of cleavage

[00:45:14] um this is one of those things like I don't know if Tarantino would have done this differently but

[00:45:21] Tony Scott it's like almost every shot is shooting right down her bra well probably the

[00:45:28] the script was all like feet shots and he was like what am I doing with this

[00:45:33] he didn't know he didn't know how to make of it why do I care about her feet again

[00:45:38] uh what do you what do you think about her in this film I think she's good I think she's very

[00:45:47] good like I think I mean even even my like critique of maybe Christian Slater might be a

[00:45:51] little bit uh a little too much but um uh I think so I think she's I think she's very good

[00:45:57] um I don't think I have a ton of Patricia Arquette um you know uh history in terms of like

[00:46:04] like you've seen all of her work in Severance I have seen all of her work in Severance

[00:46:10] a lot of I mean you know Nightmare on Elm Street 3 sure uh but there's a lot of movies of hers

[00:46:16] that I just haven't seen you know it's weird it's one this is one of those movies where

[00:46:21] it's like like I'll just watch this scene for the the Chris Walken stuff or I'll just watch

[00:46:28] this scene for the Gary Ullman stuff or I'll just watch this for the the Bronson Pinchot stuff

[00:46:35] um I'll watch this for the Gandolfini stuff it's like I kind of feel like

[00:46:44] the Slater and Arquette relationship is the least interesting thing about this movie

[00:46:48] I could see that and those two are just kind of a vehicle to get you to all of these more

[00:46:55] interesting characters like I love the Brad Pitt stuff so I wonder like if you were to do something

[00:47:04] like you know if this was Travolta and Uma Thurman driving this what it would be like

[00:47:17] right and and again I'm not even necessarily sure that it's because uh Slater and and

[00:47:24] Arquette weren't up to the task so much as it is the movie was designed and directed in such a way

[00:47:30] that it didn't emphasize that um because maybe it was so enamored with this other world and so

[00:47:37] enamored with these bit characters and sort of the uh some of the ridiculous juxtaposition

[00:47:44] of this world versus what's really going on and how intense it is that it kind of missed

[00:47:48] the point of like well you should also make the the main parts of this the the stars or the

[00:47:57] you know the main characters compelling enough to where um you don't necessarily want to lose

[00:48:03] sight of it because like how many times did I want to like follow Brad Pitt as opposed to

[00:48:07] Christian Slater and that's crazy with how little Brad Pitt's doing.

[00:48:15] Have you ever seen Michael Rapaport in anything that you didn't like?

[00:48:17] Like he's always playing that guy right he's always playing that guy and I love that guy

[00:48:25] he's just he's absolutely immediately the guy that you want to have a beer with.

[00:48:31] Did you ever see the one where he's like uh kind of like a make-believe superhero?

[00:48:38] No.

[00:48:40] Gosh I gotta remember that it's an interesting I don't know that it's

[00:48:44] and this is not hero at large this is something different.

[00:48:47] No no no no not not hero at large um now I'm wondering if I'm uh oh yeah it's called special

[00:48:59] uh and this and it's not hero at large.

[00:49:04] No it's uh it's it's about a guy who signs up for an experimental antidepressant

[00:49:12] and so I think he starts to believe he has super powers and he doesn't know

[00:49:16] and so you don't know if he does or not if he's kind of going a little nuts.

[00:49:21] It's uh it's odd.

[00:49:24] All right I'll watch it.

[00:49:25] I mean I that's I like how I sold you on them it's odd

[00:49:32] you know I'll watch it.

[00:49:34] You got me you got me I'm interested I've never seen him in a movie that

[00:49:39] I didn't immediately want to hang out with him.

[00:49:44] Uh he's he's fantastic.

[00:49:46] Is there a tweak that you'd make to this movie to improve it?

[00:49:49] Yeah I think we know that one just maybe not.

[00:49:51] I know what you're gonna say you can't say that you can say something else.

[00:49:55] Uh I didn't love Christian Slater's hair.

[00:49:59] You didn't like the dyed flat top.

[00:50:01] It was a little too long in the back.

[00:50:04] Why not give him Elvis's hair?

[00:50:06] Right and he got he's got the glasses in fact you let one of the uh one of

[00:50:10] the Italian killers has Elvis's hair.

[00:50:15] I've never seen a movie that I like Dennis Hopper in.

[00:50:18] Is that right?

[00:50:20] I liked him in this one.

[00:50:21] So you don't do you not like Dennis Hopper or do you just he just happens

[00:50:24] to be in movies you don't like?

[00:50:26] I know I like Easy Rider.

[00:50:29] I thought that was fine.

[00:50:30] I wasn't a huge fan of Waterworld.

[00:50:33] Oh really?

[00:50:34] I'm the only one.

[00:50:35] Hot take on the Hopperly Howard podcast.

[00:50:42] My gosh how'd you feel about Gilly and Ishtar while we're getting to these hot takes?

[00:50:50] Yeah this was the only one and he I it was a small part and I thought he was pretty great.

[00:50:56] In fact he he almost looks like Christian Slater's dad and uh delivers an incredibly

[00:51:05] racist monologue.

[00:51:08] For some reason I'm like I'm buying it.

[00:51:10] I I I get I totally this guy seems like a former cop in Detroit who now lives in a

[00:51:18] motor home right by a railroad track.

[00:51:22] I totally believe this guy.

[00:51:25] So you didn't like him in Speed?

[00:51:28] I never like Speed and I know that I know that this is a point of consternation.

[00:51:36] I'm not a big Sandra Bullock fan and you know my feelings of Keanu.

[00:51:42] This sort of was the era of Keanu that I just don't really appreciate.

[00:51:47] I don't like the premise of the movie.

[00:51:49] I don't I don't like the stunts.

[00:51:53] I it's just it's just a really.

[00:51:56] I don't I don't care what our next season's theme is but Speed's a top pick for me.

[00:52:02] All right I'm gonna reveal something to you now that I don't know if I've told you before.

[00:52:09] I I just I'm not a big action movie guy.

[00:52:13] I don't really like a lot of action films.

[00:52:20] You like superhero movies?

[00:52:22] I do I love superhero movies.

[00:52:26] Okay maybe you don't know what the word action means.

[00:52:31] I I there's not a lot that I like.

[00:52:36] I like action movies that incorporate science fiction.

[00:52:40] How's that?

[00:52:42] Like I like T2.

[00:52:43] I like Alien.

[00:52:47] You think well okay.

[00:52:50] I mean the bus can't slow down otherwise a bomb will go off.

[00:52:57] I get that part of it like that part I understand.

[00:52:59] Have you ever driven in traffic?

[00:53:03] I've never feel late to be somewhere and you're like man I just I don't know what to do and

[00:53:06] like if your life depended on it.

[00:53:09] Maybe that's why I don't like Speed too much anxiety.

[00:53:15] I will rewatch it for you but I'm just telling you that I hated that movie when I first saw it.

[00:53:22] I don't remember liking it or disliking it when I first saw it.

[00:53:25] I rewatched it not too long ago and both Heather and I were

[00:53:28] kind of both surprised at how much we enjoyed it.

[00:53:31] So if anybody takes anything away from this podcast review of True Romance,

[00:53:35] I'm gonna say go give Speed another shot.

[00:53:38] Is there anything else you want to say about True Romance?

[00:53:41] I don't think so.

[00:53:42] It's just I mean again I think I will watch it again.

[00:53:45] I think there's a lot of ingredients in this cake that I should like

[00:53:50] and so I think that's why I like you know because here's the thing man I'll eat a bad cake.

[00:53:55] This movie to me is like a like one time a friend of mine put scrambled eggs on pizza

[00:54:05] and I like scrambled eggs and I like pizza and I am an adventurous eater.

[00:54:10] I'll try new things so I was like I'll give this a go

[00:54:14] and you know what it tastes like?

[00:54:17] It tasted like someone put scrambled eggs on pizza

[00:54:20] and that wasn't my favorite.

[00:54:25] Well and that makes sense right because like some things you put together

[00:54:28] and you're like well that just changes the dynamic of both things

[00:54:32] but I could see why it'd be like I have a pizza.

[00:54:35] I probably would rather like I feel this look since we're in true confession mode I just

[00:54:39] root beer floats don't do a damn thing for me.

[00:54:42] Yeah not a big fan I mean but I don't like root beer.

[00:54:45] See I like root beer, I like ice cream you know what would be great?

[00:54:48] Those two things separate I don't want to make I don't want to make each thing worse.

[00:54:58] Ice cream's too wet, root beer's too gooey.

[00:55:03] Here's the thing about this movie is that I'm sure that you'll at times think like

[00:55:09] I'd like to pull up the Gary Oldman stuff on YouTube just so I can watch him

[00:55:14] and then at other times you'll think maybe I want to just watch Brad Pitt again or maybe

[00:55:19] I just want to watch Gandolfini again and then what you realize is that you're watching so many

[00:55:24] different little bits of this film that there's no reason why you shouldn't just sit down and

[00:55:30] watch the whole thing. That's fair then you watch it and you go oh that I've been

[00:55:33] skipping over these other parts maybe intentionally.

[00:55:40] My Michael Trapp of course TJ Hooker Reed is amazing by the way.

[00:55:43] Number one I love that it's TJ Hooker. The new TJ Hooker he says the new TJ Hooker.

[00:55:53] He makes it clear but then immediately and this is just beautiful Tarantino Dyer he's like oh

[00:55:59] you get to meet Captain Kirk that that's exactly how that conversation would go right

[00:56:05] it doesn't matter that he's Bill Shatner it matters that you are in the same room as

[00:56:11] Captain Kirk. Totally. And so who cares that it's TJ who cares that if it's the new TJ Hooker.

[00:56:19] I love that I love that that performance got him the part. Right because that's the other little

[00:56:25] fun part of that. Without even a callback didn't need a callback and it looked like he was

[00:56:29] obviously getting ushered out of it and you just go man how much worse were the rest of the

[00:56:33] reads? It was Shatner. Shatner was watching it. He's like I there's something about that

[00:56:41] guy I can I think that I can pull something out of that guy. I you know what I would love to see

[00:56:49] a sequel to this movie and I don't I don't see why that couldn't be done like there's a lot

[00:56:56] of characters in this movie I'd love to see it in a different movie. Is this movie better

[00:57:01] worse or on par with a Ron Howard movie? I was tempted to go properly Howard.

[00:57:10] Howard. It's just so unlike any Ron Howard movie. It is but.

[00:57:20] Does it feel weird to say properly Howard when the film itself is so different?

[00:57:26] And I think that's where I'm at is like because I think I feel like that same kind of like I

[00:57:30] liked it a lot of great actors doing a lot of great things but could they have done something

[00:57:35] a little bit more different could they have maybe just tweaked it to be more edgy or you

[00:57:41] know what I mean? So I feel like from a straight up movie standpoint it's very off the Howard

[00:57:49] trail but in terms of how I feel and that's what this podcast is about. I feel it is properly

[00:57:53] Howard. I'm gonna say this is Howard plus two. I mean I think that I think I gave Pulp Fiction

[00:58:04] Howard plus 12 and a lot of the reason why I like Pulp Fiction is because of the dialogue

[00:58:12] and so I feel like no it wasn't the perfect movie. Maybe you know maybe in the hands of

[00:58:21] someone else maybe it maybe if you gave like Tarantino dialogue to Scorsese it would feel

[00:58:26] different. There's no question in my mind that if you give Tarantino's script to Martin

[00:58:32] Scorsese that would be a much better movie than this one. Sure. But to drop from

[00:58:39] Howard plus 12 to Howard properly Howard for this film seems a big drop

[00:58:45] given how much fun I had. Gotcha. So I'm gonna say Howard plus two on this one.

[00:58:52] Okay. And you know what I'm gonna call an audible here. I'm gonna suggest we do hero at

[00:58:58] large next. Wow yeah this is the only logical next step after true romance is hero at large.

[00:59:13] I can't explain why but I will say this we're watching it at some point this season.

[00:59:21] So why not now? Why not do it right after true romance? Again never seen it

[00:59:29] very curious. Me neither. All I know about this is that it's got the guy from Threes company

[00:59:38] who's pretending to be a superhero and he spends some time in a bathtub. That's

[00:59:43] that's the whole thing I know about it. Gonna get wet.

[00:59:50] Steve does true romance have a one to grow on half the battle moment?

[00:59:57] I'd say like maybe prolong the courtship.

[01:00:02] Don't get married in less than 24 hours to the call girl. To the prostitute that

[01:00:12] was hired. I'm looking at her perspective don't get married within 24 hours to the guy who lives

[01:00:19] in Detroit hangs out on a billboard and works right where's the comic shop.

[01:00:26] Also maybe one maybe one other thing is if you've thrown up on your sweater

[01:00:29] feel free to not have it around your neck anymore.

[01:01:48] A new Star Wars journey begins in the place all good journeys begin at well the beginning.

[01:01:55] This Star Wars day I'm excited to introduce the new Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast

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[01:02:11] This is a podcast for both Star Wars super fans and complete newbies listen to the short intro

[01:02:16] episode now to hear how it works and what to expect over the coming weeks as we set the stage

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