#71 - Logan's Run / Bonus Severance Coverage

[00:00:00] Talk about your crime. Hold on tight, Brian Neck! The Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other full fiction. Today we take a look at the science fiction classic, Logan's Run.

[00:00:29] Starring Michael York as an aggressively disinterested Logan, Logan's Run answers the age-old question of what will happen to society when we run out of plankton. With me to discuss this film as always is Dr. Anthony LaDong. I don't want to imagine a world like that. I'm just going to note here, Steve, that we are still out of season. We have not begun our next season yet.

[00:00:57] This is almost an appendix on our severance coverage. I like to think of this as bonus coverage. You know, the kind of bonus when you're at work and you're expecting a check and instead you get a pizza party. What is Farrah Fawcett's career up until this point? Well, I thought it was interesting that she was listed at the end as Farrah Fawcett Majors. Right.

[00:01:27] So this is Lee Majors. Well, I'm not Lee Majors. I'm kind to kiss and tell, but I've been seen with Farrah. I've never been with anything less than a man. So fine. I've been on fire with Sally Field. Gone fast with a girl named Bo. But somehow they just don't end up as mine. It's a deathly fight in life I lead. I take my chances. I die for a living in the moon.

[00:01:56] She's adorning many a wall. Classic poster. Yeah, right. She's she's the favorite 70s poster girl. And I don't know if she's had a career on the screen. If I look at filmography. Do you think she was stunt casted for this? Perhaps. Perhaps right. So she's in 69. Nice. She was in a movie called Love is a Funny Thing. Then she was in Myra Breckenridge.

[00:02:26] And then Logan's Run. So she's in a movie called Sunburn and Saturn three Cannibal run. Oh, was she ever in a good movie? Was she ever good as an actress? I don't know. So she had played like a lot of like one like one episode in like lots of different TV shows. Right. So she's like in an episode of days of our lives in 1970 and Partridge family and flying nun.

[00:02:55] She was in two episodes. OK, so good for her. Two episodes of I Dream of Jeannie. So she had been like she pops in on TV. So so she's a name. She's a model. It's interesting that of all the roles that she has in this movie, it's to be. Just no purpose whatsoever. Well, OK, that's why I'm asking of this stunt casting, because I think that I mean, this is a this is a movie for all of its faults. It is.

[00:03:24] Someone's put a lot of thought into this. So are you sure? A great deal of thought into this movie. And I was thinking, like. Maybe this is stunt casting because you're like, well, this person works at the cause cosmetic surgery factory.

[00:03:45] Surely this is the most beautiful person ever because she could take advantage of the best technology available to create the perfect face. And so maybe that is, you know, that. Well, who could we get those sort of has the perfect face for this? Like, oh, let's let's get Farrah Fawcett. But she is.

[00:04:10] I mean, I was watching this with Sarah and she's like, man, her brains are little. She's got the person she's playing in this show is like, you know, she has a very tenuous grasp on logic. And just what happened like two minutes ago, she cannot remember. No. Yeah. I mean, so we'll say this about Logan's run for a movie with the word run in the title.

[00:04:41] Sure is is not in a hurry to get anywhere. It really is sort of a feat of world building. And I'm kind of intrigued by the thought behind it. It has that kind of 70s sci fi look. Because it was a sci fi movie from the 70s. Well, it looks like what it is.

[00:05:06] If you watch Empire and you watch this, you're like you had access to the same kind of technology. You this could be Cloud City. Sure. It's sort of like Cloud City has an orgy. Well, what I like is that is that even even in Cloud City, like they didn't have like escalators like escalator seems like we're past that. You know, this is if this is the future. I mean escalators.

[00:05:37] I don't know why that took me out more than anything else. I mean, this movie's got a lot of problems, but the escalators. I was just like, OK, the escalators are for like the the minions. They're not like I was watching a scene where the guy with the hoverboard that melts the bodies. Yeah. It's like hovering over like a dead body and spraying it with something that's going to make it dissolve. My son walks in. He's like, you just be watching anything.

[00:06:09] So do you think this I think this movie you mentioned world building, I think this movie could have been better served to if we had seen maybe something in terms of like a glimpse of the hierarchy. OK, so I do want to talk a lot about this, but we should. It's what we're doing as is our way. It's more important to save the intricate plot details to later while we bullshit for a long time.

[00:06:38] OK, that's right. It really is kind of our thing. You don't want to we don't want to we don't want to like show up here and like have our audience like, wait a minute, we're just talking about the movie. OK, it's a very difficult movie to describe. And I was listening back to you try to describe this in our in our severance podcast. We should probably tell why we're even here in the first place. I was like, I think I've this is the second time I've heard him explain this. This makes zero sense at all.

[00:07:10] And you also called me, you know, the night of the finale. Yeah. And you were talking about Logan's run then. I was trying to explain it then. Yeah, it made sense at no point. So I was just thinking maybe this is an impossible movie to explain. Maybe. Well, but do you do you have an elevator pitch for this? Uh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:34] The elevator pitches fish plankton sea greens protein from the sea. That do anything for it? So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to play the trailer for this movie and it's a long trailer. And I hope it will set it up better than we could. Great.

[00:07:59] Just imagine a world where you will hold your entire future in the palm of your hand. When a tiny glowing crystal will guide you through an existence in which each day is more wonderful than the last. Where it will be possible for you to obtain the fulfillment of every fantasy. The satisfaction of every vanity. The absolute attainment of every wish.

[00:08:24] Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer presents the Saul David production of Logan's Run. A fantastic journey through a world beyond imagination. Welcome to the 23rd century. The perfect world of total pleasure. Imagine a world in which you need never be alone. You touch a switch, turn a dial, and the perfect lover steps into your arms.

[00:08:53] Every pleasure is yours to experience. Runner! There's just one catch. When the tiny crystal in the palm of your hand flashes its final message, your time is up. Michael York is local. A policeman in a perfect world. No! Trained to track down runners. Until he is forced to run himself.

[00:09:26] Runner! I'm your friend, I understand. We all go crazy once in a while. But she's a runner and it's over. Overwhelming. Box. An incredible being. More than human. More than machine. Diabolical guardian of the gateway to freedom. Or Logan and the woman who loves him.

[00:09:54] I haven't seen a face like that before. That must be the look of... It's crazy that they would reveal that. Of being old. This is like... This is the entire movie. MGM takes you into a new age of adventure. In the first motion picture of the 23rd century. So there's like no surprise. Logan's run. It begins where imagination ends.

[00:10:27] The trailer basically gives a synopsis of the entire movie. And I think after talking with my wife, she probably would have been satisfied with just the trailer. Uh, yeah, sure. She's like, how long is this? I'm like, it's actually not that long. It just feels like it's forever. It does something very hypnotic. Like it's a point. There's an extended scene in this movie that's super important where it's all in slow motion. I thought this whole movie was in slow motion. Well, when it slows down...

[00:10:57] You mean slower motion. When it slows down in the, in the, uh, the orgy room or whatever that, that wing of the city is. It's like, what's... Why are we, why are we slowing this down? Like, why are we extending the length of this movie? Going into this movie, I kind of watched it, probably watched the first 15 minutes by myself. And then Sarah walks in and she's like, she kind of can't look away.

[00:11:26] And so like, she's like total peanut gallery. She's like, at one point she's like, this is a porno, right? This is gotta be a porno. Yeah. And I'm like looking down furiously, like making notes in my notebook. And I look up and literally 30 seconds after she said that jokingly, they walk into the orgy room. Yeah. And I'm like, what, how did this happen? Like, no, no, no context whatsoever.

[00:11:55] She's like, what you missed was the porno mist. Yeah. They walked through the porno mist. And then of course you have to have a porno on the other side. Right. I guess that's fair. Yeah. I mean, it's, I, in many ways I wish it was a porno because I know what's going on. I know, understand the plot thread of a porno. Like, like this is like, well, what are we doing now? And then in the trailer, they tell you it's a, it's the 23rd century. Yeah. At any point in the movie, did we get that? Yeah.

[00:12:25] And in the opening before the starts, they give a little, like, they give a little synopsis, which I think is insane to me because it's like all the things that the, you need this. You need this trailer to understand like when, because like, oh, you can get everything by the push of a button. And I've, I've watched this movie like twice in the last two weeks. And maybe I haven't been as engaged as I should have been. But I guess I didn't really make the connection. I thought that he got, like, he ordered the, he ordered sex, like via DoorDash or whatever.

[00:12:55] I thought it had something to do with his, his job. Like, cause like, it's a Sandman perk. I didn't realize that like, this is sort of this hedonistic life or world that's been created. So you can just, you have 30 years of just, just get after it, do whatever you want. And then. It's not like that's her job. It's not like she's a sex worker. It's just that you push a button and then someone like you could be playing Pinochle or something. And then you just like appear in horny guy's room. Yeah. Well, she signed up for it.

[00:13:25] She signed up for it. And he's basically saying, why'd you sign up for this? If you didn't want to have sex. And she's like, well, I'm like, well, I changed my mind. And one of the, just the most awkward scenes in a very, very awkward movie. It's a very awkward scene, but I will say his little house robe that he's wearing. On fire. Yeah. I love the costuming in this movie. I wish everyone dressed like this all of the time.

[00:13:53] Well, you want women to wear basically just a, what? A pillowcase. A sheer pillowcase. I want everyone. I want. Oh, it's freezing in here. It's well, but look, we found these furs. We should get out of these wet clothes. Well, you get out of your wet clothes. I like the idea of everyone sort of wearing what is most comfortable. And I just like the idea of the world walking around in sort of thin robes.

[00:14:23] It's kind of not a big deal anymore at that point. Yeah, no. And then, you know, it's not, it's not necessarily sexual unless you see the orgy mist. Right. Wafting through the hallway. And then, you know, okay, it's about to happen. Things are about to slow down and we're all just going to grab at each other. I love it. I love it. They're like throwing these people off. Right. Right. It's like, it's like they're being kind of attacked, but yeah, it was like, it was like

[00:14:51] almost like death by a thousand hand jobs. All right. I mean, there's like, there is so much that happens yet nothing goes on. It's like, it's weird. It's like, it's that. Like I said, there was a lot of thought put into like, let's build, let's, let's figure out every little detail of what this utopia is like.

[00:15:19] Like, but let's also spend a way too much time like showing this to you. Right. Like I don't like, there are so many scenes that were, were so long, like him getting his mission and then the mission download. Good Lord. The mission download is bonkers long for no reason. Okay. I want to talk about this world. All right.

[00:15:45] Because I think this actually, we'll save the severance talk to the end, but I want to talk about what the impetus is for this utopian society. So clearly there's been some kind of catastrophic event, right? Mm-hmm. And they, whatever sort of technological hierarchy that is in place has decided, well, we're going

[00:16:15] to need a dome to protect these people. That's just, I'm sort of creating a headcanon at this point. And so what is this, what is this world going to be like? Well, we're going to use the power of the ocean to create energy. We'll suck in protein from sort of the sea. The sea.

[00:16:41] Like, yeah, well, fish protein will create an AI being to process the protein. And then we'll send that up to this fully contained domed life that basically provides everything that these people need. And so we're going to have to entertain them to create some kind of utopia so that they

[00:17:08] are properly contained and easy to manipulate. And the idea here, I think, is to like, we need to kind of preserve humanity post-apocalypse. Why? Because that's what humans do. That's what they want to, they want to continue the species. But only for 30 years at a time. 30 years at a time. And I'm wondering why that is. And I'm thinking maybe it's because it's kind of their healthcare system. It's like we.

[00:17:38] All these people have an HMO and that's, it only covers them until 30. No, I'm thinking like, this will be a utopia because you'll never have to deal with aging and death. We will solve that problem. We'll tell them that they'll get renewed. And, and they'll just willingly go to their death and you won't have to actually deal with like healthcare issues in old age. Right.

[00:18:07] So there's no, I don't have to deal with anything like life support. We don't have to deal with. Yeah. The cane. You know, but, but who's in charge and how old are these people? Right. And that's why I think to me, that's that to me, maybe the hardest part of this movie in terms of like reconciling the question of like, well, what's going on is, is you, you know, you sort of developed the, the headcanon of this is probably how it breaks down, but it's like, but to what end and who's in charge? And it, yeah, that's what I think.

[00:18:36] I think that the box character is kind of important. Um, Oh, played by Roscoe Lee Brown wearing a, just kind of a Halloween mask. Like one of those little Halloween masks that's sort of plastic on the front and has that little, you know, elastic band that goes around the back of your head. More than human. A fusion of the two. Am I not impressive? Do you agree?

[00:19:05] They will say box, box, box. These are, these are all things that they felt we should keep these in. We should keep all of this. So box is kind of important because it kind of shows you, they put the AI in place to allow these people a utopia, but the AI has kind of gone haywire.

[00:19:30] It's like, there's no more fish coming in, but his programming has told him, you have to collect protein and freeze it. That's your job. Mm-hmm . And so all these people, so he's got no more fish. Yeah. For whatever reason. Well, there's nothing, there's nothing sadder than a dead fish. So, so all of these runners have become his. That was a, that was a phrase that was said. It was written down on the script and an actor had a performer.

[00:19:59] There's nothing sadder than a dead fish. Mm-hmm . Look, if there's one fatal flaw of this movie. Just the one. If there's one. It is, like a lot of other sci-fi of this period, the acting is just god-awful atrocious. I mean they. It is just, it is just horrific. And I laughed from beginning to end.

[00:20:28] Michael York delivers lines like he had just come to. Like, I don't, like there was a part where he seemed like almost put off that, that he was being asked a question by another character and he had to answer it as another character. It was like, cause when she said something about when they're talking about like living together and he's like, and he goes, mm-hmm . And then, and then he goes, why not?

[00:20:56] You know, like it was just that like, like he was, he forgot they were doing the movie. He's like, hmm? Sorry. I was, I was somewhere else. I like the idea that the very first time a woman hears about marriage, she's like, yeah, let's do that. Absolutely. Let's do that. And then the very first time a man hears about marriage, he's like, oh, I mean, yeah, I was a little bit, I was kind of dozing off here. What were we talking about? Oh, sure. Fine. I'm sorry.

[00:21:24] I was just, I was just kind of, you know, thinking about the fact that I just killed my friend. What were you saying? Yeah. Oh, old guy wants to be our son. Sure. Yeah. This is fine. This sure beats dying at 30. So back to box. The people who have put thought into the, how this world is going to exist and how you're

[00:21:51] going to propagate the human species, you know, they didn't think of everything. It could be that there is no hierarchy in charge. It could be that they programmed a computer to continue this particular existence. And at some point the culture is going to outlive itself and want to change, but the computer won't let it. The computer is programmed to do a particular thing. Or just, yeah, they didn't, they didn't anticipate the, you know, the potential snafu.

[00:22:20] So you're saying that boxes tariffs. Oh, gosh. You know, I, I watch this movie. I'm thinking, is this so bad? Because the world I'm living in is pretty, pretty bad. Like, did I have been dead already? I mean, you know, you, you look around in the news and you thinking maybe these guys, you know, maybe I could be ruled by an AI overlord. Maybe that'd be a little bit better. So, so, okay.

[00:22:50] So you want to continue the, the, the, trying to understand this movie or, um, well, I think do you like this movie? I enjoyed myself immensely. Is it a good movie? It's a horrible movie. I love, look, I love the set. I love the set design. There's just something about practical effects, even when they're really bad. They're just really nostalgic for me. Yeah.

[00:23:20] Um, I, I love the, I love the little guns that are basically like lighters. Like, like there's just little sparks that shoot out the sides. Yeah. Uh, and I love at one point, Michael York, when he's, it's like, he's never seen a movie with a gun before. Like he's using the gun to kind of launch. Like he's, he's, it's almost like he's tossing the bullet. Like you toss a pebble into the pond.

[00:23:50] Like those ping pong guns that you would have back in the day. Like you kind of had to give them a little extra oomph. They weren't going to just, it's yeah. Yeah. The, the gun requires that little extra, uh, wrist flick to get the laser beam to the other room. I don't think Michael York, did he ever like, he emoted like twice. Oh no. He emoted. He just doesn't know how to emote. Okay.

[00:24:17] I mean, he, he was, I think he was trying the final scene where he's trying to yell to the people that they don't have to die. Oh yeah. Renewal's a lie. And no, don't go in there. You don't have to die. Well, no one has to die 30. You can live. Live. I've seen it. She's seen it.

[00:24:46] But look, look. He's like mid ayahuasca experience. It's like you look in his eyes and he's like on some different aspect of the astral plane at that point. I get the sense that they filmed that scene first. And then like, he like blew out like a face muscle and he was like, I'll do the rest of the movie, but I am not going to, to change my tone or facial expression.

[00:25:12] Did this movie give you Star Wars or Star Trek vibes? Yeah. I think I'm glad we watched this because I do. And we will get to the severance part. I do think that there is this movie has imprinted, I think on a lot of filmmakers, at least from a science fiction perspective. I believe, I believe that there's a lot of things that we see that are borrowed from or improved upon, you know, there's cause cause Logan's run. I mean, it, it did. It spawned a TV show.

[00:25:43] It's, it's a movie that I had sworn that I had seen and I hadn't. Yeah, me too. I thought I had seen at least some of it. Right. So I was shocked that I'm like, dude, I have not seen this movie yet. I know it. I feel like I know it. I mean, I, uh, so it's, I think it's, it's, it's iconic. It's an iconic VHS that I would see my, we used to, uh, Heather and I would, um, rent seventies sci-fi movies. And that just goes to show how, how much she was willing to try to make the relationship

[00:26:12] work as, um, I mean, there's nothing in these movies that, that, that should like make her happy. I mean, they're sweaty as all get out. Um, it's because you were having trouble emoting. Probably. The only thing that would give you joy is to watch really bad acting. Like we watched Soylent Green and the original Planet of the Apes and, you know, things of that, of that nature. Uh, and I think Logan's run was on the list. I think that might've been one of the times that she's just like, you know what? I think I'm gonna call it.

[00:26:42] Um, I think, I think I've shown that I am, uh, a, a loving wife and you are a devoted husband. So let's just not do this anymore. So I just assumed I had, uh, but so I think that there's a lot here, right? I mean, there's, I, there's, uh, some of the world building I think is, is you see in other, other sci-fi, um, the, the post-apocalyptic sense, the, um, well, I thought it's interesting

[00:27:11] that they would just reveal that they were in Washington DC in the trailer, but that's interesting because I feel like the trailer was almost trying to say, um, Hey, you liked Planet of the Apes, right? Right. Like, remember how, remember how you felt when you saw the Statue of Liberty and Planet? Well, we're going to do the same thing in this movie.

[00:27:34] And, uh, so you're going to get that experience again, which is a complete, complete horrible thing to do because the reason why that was surprising at the end of Planet of the Apes is that you didn't see it coming. Well, did you, did you see the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes? Yes. Uh, I'm a fan. Um, and the, the sort of the twist at the end of that one is kind of a homage to both

[00:28:03] Planet of the Apes and it feels like Logan's run, right? Oh, interesting. Cause you see, I forget how that ends. It ends with him seeing the, uh, Lincoln Memorial, but, um, it's an ape as Lincoln. Oh, so it kind of gives me a kind of a fun vibe of the two things like one inspired the other. It feels like, and then both inspire this other remake.

[00:28:26] Um, I think, um, I think like it's in, if you strip away some of the details, like the world building that you're talking about, which is, you know, it's, it's kind of an ironic thing to say, because I think the world should have been built a little bit more, uh, carefully. Um, the idea though, like on its surface is like, okay, so there's, there's a, these people live in a, uh, kind of a false utopia.

[00:28:53] And, uh, they believe that they're going to be renewed because, and it's, it's sort of this just blind faith. And it turns out that it's not the case. That part I think is interesting. And they didn't build on that enough. Right. I mean, it's like, we, we understand, well, they don't want to, you shouldn't have to die at 30, but it's like also like, but if we don't know why, if you don't know to what end, like what's, what's this, what is this, uh, problem that they're trying to solve?

[00:29:20] Well, you know, then maybe, maybe I would care a little bit more about that. It's like, it sounds like they just kill people off and then they come into you. You're not. And it's like, that's like, that's not enough. Right. Like, I feel like there has to be some sort of a, this is the reason why they do it. You prove they don't have to do it that way. And now you've revealed maybe, well, maybe it's also population control. It's like, there's only a certain amount of, they make them. It's just like, you guys doing it. It's, but it's the cycle.

[00:29:48] It's like the machine has determined, we need 3000 people. We need them these ages so that we don't have to deal with the complications of old age. And so let's make sure that they get cycled out and cycled in at a regular interview. And again, I guess I go back to, to what end, like you said, it's, it's humanity's, um, you know, sort of motivation is to, to maintain humanity, but it's doing it in this way. It's like, so to what purpose? Just, just, it's an ant farm.

[00:30:18] It's an ant farm. This is the best way to get us to survive to the next level. I mean, I, I don't, I don't know if this is true because I don't remember the, the, the little text at the beginning of the movie, but it almost felt like there was some kind of nuclear Holocaust that happened. Let me, let me, uh, read to you the beginning part. Okay. Thank you.

[00:30:42] Sometime in the 23rd century, the survivors of war, overpopulation and pollution are living in a great domed city sealed away from the forgotten world outside. Here in an ecologically balanced world, mankind lives only for pleasure, freed by the servo mechanisms which provide everything. There's just one catch. Life must end at 30 unless reborn in the fiery ritual of carousel. Carousel.

[00:31:12] Renew. Okay. Renew. So, uh, all right. So let me retract my, my nuclear Holocaust comments. I think the ecologically balanced part is really important. It's like the, the machine mind has determined that there's just, it's just the right amount of people at the right amount of age for this. It's like a particular balance to exist.

[00:31:43] And so when people get to be age 30, they have to be, uh, quote unquote renewed. And, uh, then we bring in a new crop. So yes, it is very much an ant farm. And interestingly enough, I was going to save the severance for a lot later, but, um, I was rewatching the first episode.

[00:32:05] And I think that there's, uh, uh, early scene where the ants go marching one by one is playing in the background. Oh, is that right? Hmm. Yeah. Of course, that's just my metaphor or your metaphor, not the show's metaphor, but like you were saying, maybe this movie inspires a lot of sci-fi movies, right? Yeah. So it's possible that the severance folks were inspired by this movie or they were inspired by movies that were inspired by this movie.

[00:32:35] Right. Right. So the DNA just sort of keeps going. Um, and so we, I think we talked about this during when we talked about Wicker Man, um, and how I believe that Midsommar is the Ari Aster's watching of Wicker Man and going, oh, this is bonkers. I bet you I could make a good movie out of this and like strips a lot of things away. Right.

[00:33:01] Um, and then, and then kind of grabs the pieces that he thinks are, are especially compelling and then kind of re-imagines. Um, and so I think that there's something, cause I mean, there's a lot of things about Wicker Man and, um, and Midsommar that are pretty, uh, I don't know, the influence, influencing each other.

[00:33:26] Um, or, you know, like the bear costume versus a guy in a bear carcass, you know, like there's just things like that. They're like, it, it'd be hard. You'd be hard pressed to say that there's no influence. So I think with Logan's run, it, it almost doesn't matter how much you like it or how well it's fleshed out. You could also look at this and go, yeah, man. Like kind of what I was saying, like, it'd be kind of nice to know the hierarchy behind here. Kind of be nice to know why this is that way.

[00:33:51] Like, are there people that live older than 30 and this is, there's another, there's another reason for this, right? Like maybe these people, they're living this pleasure, uh, lifestyle, but maybe they're being harvested in some interesting way or they serve some other purpose. So it isn't just keeping mankind alive for the sake of keeping mankind alive. Uh, there's, there's some sort of maybe more sinister purpose. And I think that's what was missing, right?

[00:34:14] I think, I think that movie is more interesting to me other than just saying, Hey, everybody, we don't, we don't get renewed after carousel. It's like, Oh, so you're still kind of left with like, but okay. But so what did you find out? Well, you found out that there's still a world out there that you could have lived in. It's cats. And, um, and, and that's kind of it, you know?

[00:34:35] So I feel like if there had been this other level of like, like they find something else out, um, about why I think you have a more interesting thing. And I, that's where I feel like when, when talk about severance and go, okay, well, this isn't exactly Logan's run, but there is this contained world. There is this element of, um, like trying to flee to get to the outside and then also maybe coming back inside to do some rescue.

[00:34:59] Um, but we are getting a more, at least with severance, we're getting a better glimpse into the motivations of why this was created in the first place. And, and I think that's, that's, that's, so maybe that's the kind of influence like, you know, you see Logan's run and you go, ah, if only this, that, or whatever. And you're like, well, I can't just remake Logan's run or I could, but like, instead of doing that, why don't I take some of those themes and push them, uh, forward, you know, as opposed to just revisiting them.

[00:35:30] I'm looking to see if there's a Logan's run too. There's all I know is there's a TV show. Oh, interesting. And I don't know if it's an, an expansion of that because I mean, I don't know how the Logan's run TV show would, would work. Um, just, yeah, you've already killed Farrah Fawcett. Right. I mean, what more could you possibly want? Um, I've got sort of the regular questions that I ask.

[00:36:00] I've got the severance conversation. Which one do you want to do first? Um, let's do the regular questions. Okay. All right. Um, was there a theme, a trope or device that you enjoyed in this movie? Um, I, well, so I do like, and again, it's like, we had kind of, I kind of gave you a hard time for it, but like, I am a sucker for just the entire vibe of, of like 70s science fiction.

[00:36:30] Um, and I don't know that they knew they were doing this at the time, but there's just clearly a 70s science fiction thing that happens. Right. It's, it's, it's the, the, the, uh, the, the future is, uh, sort of uniform outfits, you know, and, uh, and very flowy for the ladies and very, uh, chic for the dudes. Um, I do, so I, I'm kind of a sucker for, you'll know who's who by what they're wearing.

[00:37:01] I like everyone having a uniform. She's a green. It's really great. Like, like in, in the future, people are just wearing uniforms.

[00:37:39] Yeah. It's like, it's like watching like, uh, you know, like a toddler do cosplay or something. It was like, like, you know, like it was so funny. I love the idea as he's just sitting there, just absolutely just, just braggadociously. Like, look at me to gaze upon my majesty more than man, more than machine. It's like, you're none of either.

[00:38:05] You're like, you're, you're cardboard, you're cardboard and foil. There's nothing majestic about anything you're doing right now. And your name is box. Your name is box. And you're kind of like, uh, you know, you're kind of an automaton, but you still laugh when you're about to kill someone. You've got, you're like, you're programmed to laugh in an evil way when you're about to take a life.

[00:38:35] And also like, I, I, I guess this is the more human part of him than the robotic part of him because he starts off with fish, plankton, sea greens, protein from the sea. And then like, as he starts going like the full like battle mode, he just shortens it. It's just protein, plankton, grass from the sea. Oh, okay. So I like that. Uh, is there a tweak to this movie that you, would you make, would you make a tweak to this movie to improve it?

[00:39:02] Uh, I would just, to just play the trailer only. I think you got to shorten this thing up. I mean. You have, if you can leave it at two hours, but you gotta, you, you gotta make those two hours value added. You can't. I mean, they were, they were just chit chatting with the old man who, by the way, Steven Root is playing this guy in the, in the, uh, remake for sure. Has to be.

[00:39:29] Sarah's like, Sarah's like, is he supposed to be T.S. Elliott or does he just memorize T.S. Elliott? I'll be a beloved son. This is, this movie would be a lot better without Michael York, right? Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, in Michael York's defense, he's not the only problem. I mean, he's not, he's not helping the situation, but, uh, if you were going to remake it, what would you do? Who would you, who would you put as, uh, as Logan?

[00:39:58] If it's 1976, it's definitely Burt Lancaster. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. And don't explain why he's too old for the role. Can Burt Lancaster be box? I, I just love Burt Lancaster so much. I want to see, I want to see Jason Robards in this movie. Maybe he's the old man. Is he old enough then? Oh, he's, he, he was always old. Always old.

[00:40:27] I don't know if you know this, but he was born old. Ah, all right. So I, I'm trying to think you, you want someone sort of youngest. You need someone who's about 24, right? Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford is, is almost unknown at this point. Probably when they're casting this, Harrison Ford is still unknown. Yeah. Uh, Joe Biden was born the same time. Oh yeah. Joe Biden. Can we get Joe Biden?

[00:40:57] It was just, it was sitting right there. Yeah. Biden's run. We missed that. It's mostly him falling even at that age. You know, I'm just looking at, I'm just looking at people that were born the same year as, uh, as Michael York, just trying to see if I could cast them. And, uh, and so far, um, I really liked the idea of either Wayne Newton, uh, Ronnie James Dio, perhaps. I don't know if, uh, we can get Joy Behar to be, uh, Jessica.

[00:41:27] Robert Redford. He's about, he's about the right age. Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell has box. Sure. Omar Gaddafi. Also the same age as Michael York. Very charismatic. Um, I, you know, I have a thing against child actors and it's, there's, it's twofold.

[00:41:56] My thing with child actors is number one. I think it's kind of torture to make a child act. Like it's almost unethical to put someone, to put a child that age on, on a Hollywood studio. So there's that. But then also like most child actors are just not great. They're just not very good.

[00:42:20] And either they're written wrong or they just don't have the emotional depth to, to make it work. Um, Mary too is maybe the best actor in this movie. She was fantastic. Yeah. And maybe just by comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe just by comparison for sure. I did quite enjoy the, uh, uh, the Francis character when he died.

[00:42:51] I had to, I had to rewind it a couple of times just to rewatch him die. Cause it was so entertaining. What's the deal with the, uh, carousel outfits? Like, why do you, what's it's, it's a weird costuming choice. That was, that was what, that's what you want to tweak. Well, I mean, they look like they were terrified, right?

[00:43:18] So I would, it's interesting that it happened so early and you're like, okay, well maybe, maybe renewal's not a good thing. Some of them think it is though. Some of them are like, just like, they're all, they're all about it. Well, that's why you run, right? Like you, you run because you don't want to be renewed.

[00:43:39] Um, and then the Sandman, um, cause I guess Sandman because of the sand in the hourglass time or. Oh, I hadn't made that connection. Interesting that they didn't want to use the word kill. So they were okay with terminate. We don't kill, we terminate runners. So, so there's something like interesting.

[00:44:03] Like I said, there's elements of this that feel like their themes worth exploring or discussing. You know, there's sort of this, this critique of sort of blind, uh, whether it's religious or militaristic, um, you know, Hey, this is what, this is our job. It's what we're supposed to do. And this is for the greater good. And it's like, well, what if it isn't, you know? So you have these moments of questioning, but again, it's like, I think all of that is better served.

[00:44:29] If, if you see what exactly your question, they're just questioning the thing that's happened, not necessarily like the why part, you know what I mean? Okay. Okay. So at the very beginning, when we get introduced to Carousel, there's like that culty circle of people in white masks, right? A little bit of eyes wide shutty in that moment.

[00:44:54] And it makes you wonder like, okay, so this isn't just built around the technology. There's also kind of a religious element to this thing. And, you know, you, you think about death and rebirth. It's sort of a very prominent religious theme. And so the people in these masks, they clearly have a different rank than everyone else.

[00:45:23] So maybe it's not just sort of like an AI machine gone haywire. Maybe there's a religious hierarchy involved behind the scenes that we don't see. Right. And it makes me wonder, like, are these people under 30? I mean, you know, why wear masks? Well, and that's, that's to me is like, that's what this world introduces. It introduces these types of questions. And me, an audience member is like, well, I'm more interested now in maybe that as opposed

[00:45:52] to whether or not they can come to the realization that the sun is warm. Steve. Steve, who is this movie for? I think it's for filmmakers to take the themes and then make something better later. I was wondering about that. I was wondering, like, it's interesting to me that this is still like the best Logan's run there is.

[00:46:23] Right. Right. That Logan's run exists. That it, I believe it clearly has left some sort of imprint on future science fiction enough so that you can sort of see themes being brought out. And I've heard it referenced. Yet nobody has felt the need to improve it because it's like it served its purpose. It served its inspirational purpose. We'll just let this be right here. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a syllabus.

[00:46:52] It's a little bit like a syllabus. Is this movie better, worse, or on par with a Ron Howard note? Yeah. I mean, this is like, I was thinking about this question a lot because I was like, I don't know where to rank this because it's kind of hard. It's almost like you're comparing eras at this point. You know, like, who's better, Jordan or LeBron? And it's like, okay, well, you know, are you asking me, is this like if Ron Howard was in 1976? You know, and I still think he'd be.

[00:47:21] He was in 1976. Yeah. Was he directing? No. He was probably directing Happy Days episodes. Okay. Oh, that's possible. So I would say that it is, uh, it's a Howard minus like a buncha and, uh, thank you. Thank you for creating a new word. And then I, and so then I want this purple. So then I walked away from it going, and now I want Ron Howard to remake Logan's Ron.

[00:47:53] Have you watched any episodes of the studio on Apple TV? I have watched two episodes. I have not watched the Ron Howard one yet. I think. So you haven't watched the Howard one. All right. Well, I was going to, it's, it's up our alley. Oh, I can't wait. Certainly. I do enjoy the studio. So yeah, it's, it's pretty good so far. Gives Heather a lot of anxiety. Yeah. But Sarah's like, why is it always the jazz drum?

[00:48:19] I'm going to say that this is a Howard minus three. Okay. And like, if you were going to say like, do you want to rewatch splash or do you want to rewatch Logan's run? Hmm. I'd be like, well, it depends on what kind of mood I'm in. It depends on how much nudity I want. Do I want implied mermaid nudity or do I want actual nudity? I can tell you this.

[00:48:46] I laughed from start to finish in this movie. Yeah, no, it's pretty, it's pretty wacky. It is, it is so hilarious and it doesn't know it's very self-serious, but it's, it is so funny and I had such a great time watching it. And, uh, I just, I'm sure that if I watched it again, I'd be laughing at 20 different things about it. Yeah.

[00:49:14] I think it's a movie that when it's, it is at its most hilarious when it's at its most earnest. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Let's talk severance. Yeah. Oh, wait. Is there a half the battle one to grow on moment in this film? Um, I don't think so. Again, cause I don't know what they're going against.

[00:49:39] I wonder if there's something like, don't fight it, man. You got a nice thing going on in here. Yeah. Maybe, maybe there's nothing out there, but a crazy old guy, crazy old cat man. Living in the U S Capitol. Yeah. Maybe there's nothing out there. Maybe the twist is really that the ending is not supposed to be considered a success that it's actually like, Oh yeah, it gets worse after 30.

[00:50:06] Well, they do figure out what it means to, you know, be a loving husband and a loving wife. Yeah. We'll see how long that lasts. With someone as emotionally stunted as Michael York. Exactly. Yeah. Good luck, Jessica. He's not going to think he's going to, you think he's going to have time for his now 74 year old son.

[00:50:33] He's like, Oh, catching the, catching the cradle with the silver spoon. Oh, how long is it before everyone goes back inside? Right. Everyone's like, ah, everyone like, like is really impressed with just seeing an old man. That's going to last for maybe 10 minutes. You're like, this kind of smells like cat. That's the thing. I go into that place where he lives and I smell that much cat urine and I see losers on the ground. I'm like, yo man, fire up the carousel.

[00:51:02] I know, I know I'm only 24, but they're going to be like, I've never seen or heard of a cat before, but I recognize cat piss. Yeah. I know what it smells like. I'm out of probably allergies for the first time. Are you kidding me? Yeah. They all die. Yeah, exactly. They all, they all die. They touch a peanut on the outside and it's night, night.

[00:51:23] All right. So let's go through some of the severance parallels here. And if you've hung out with us this long, just to hear us talk about severance, I apologize that this podcast exists.

[00:51:45] I've got a few of these and I'm sure I'm missing a few of them, but let's just start with what first clued you in to the connections between severance and this movie. So yeah. So the reason why I got into the Logan's run concept, it was actually episode six, which is the, the Shikai Bardot.

[00:52:11] Is that anyway, it's the Shikai Bardot episode where there's the, there's sort of the montage of their relationship. And it's, and it's this French song and it's like a thousand waltzes and it's just go, it's kind of frenetic. And it just goes and goes, goes kind of repetitive and it spins and it spins. And like, it's just, it feels like it's kind of like overwhelming and manic in some regard. And I looked up the lyrics and the lyrics were like a thousand waltzes and blah, blah, blah.

[00:52:37] But there was a, a, like a play or a musical done about the, the, the performer, the singer of that song. And they had changed the words to the carousel. And so when I first looked up the words, that was the first thing I had found was this idea of carousel. And it kind of went with the sort of almost the imagery, like the imagery almost felt like you were going around a lot. So it was interesting. And so I thought, okay, well I was wrong maybe about that.

[00:53:04] But then when they did the, the, the final scene, when they're running down the hallway and the finale, you know, the windows of my mind came on it. And I heard the word carousel again, sung by, by Mel Torme. And so, so that sort of like popped it back in. And I was like, well, wait a minute, you know, like, you know, and I, you know, you start believing that there are no accidents or everything's connected. So that you just start connecting everything, whether it's meant to or not. So I started thinking carousel looked up and like, isn't that a Logan's run thing?

[00:53:32] So I looked up Logan's run a little bit more again, assuming I'd seen it. And I had been conflating some of the scenes from Soylent Green, the death scenes in Soylent Green. I mean, with Ernest Borgnine as well, I was thinking the carousel scene, I had already seen it, but that was, you know, so anyway. So I, that, that was the first thing that kind of clued me in. And then I started, you know, when I started pulling up information, I'm like, I looked at the next part that really clued me in was Adam Scott's hair and Michael York's hair are remarkably similar. Yeah.

[00:54:02] And it's like you copied and pasted. Right. And, and, and that part struck me because we talked so much about when is this, you know, when is that? Well, not only that, but Farrah Fawcett is adamant that his hair should be brown. Right. Right. Yeah. That's a good point. And so it's almost like you copy and pasted and then gave Farrah Fawcett her wish. Exactly. Yeah. And so then you get this. So then the idea of, so as I started to like really go unpacking further, I'm sure you have a longer list.

[00:54:30] But that's when it was like, okay, well, there's this last scene. It's grainy. They're running there. You know, it kind of brings you a seventies, you know, sort of motif. It's a white hallway. A lot of white in these types of movies, especially the hallways. The idea that Logan's run is in an inside dome and there's an outside world and it's like trying to get out. And then they come back.

[00:54:53] Anyway, so that those all, all of a sudden it was like, okay, I'm not saying that this is a remake of Logan's run, but I am, I'm kind of, I wanted to bring up that Wicker man moment because I almost wonder if there is an element of going like same kind of feeling. You see Logan's run, you're like, I'm interested in this world, but I feel like I, I, I'm more interested in the world that they didn't show me. And maybe that's what I want to explore. Right.

[00:55:18] I, and I think that my take on this is that when they were thinking of season two, there were themes in this movie that they thought, let's play with that a little bit. So I don't know if any of this is going to be like predictive. Right. Yeah. And that's the thing. I don't know. It's possible. I don't know that you're like anything that we pull out of Logan's run and we can now go, aha. Cause they, there isn't a lot of that, right? They don't tell you the wise and they don't tell you, you know, you don't understand box.

[00:55:48] He just is. So let me just run down my list here. You have this inside society with no memory of life before. Now, in this case, it's not personal memory. It's, it's sort of collective cultural memory. Right. They don't know what a mother is. They don't know what a father is. You know, they don't, they just, they just have zero memory of life outside. People just show up. People just show up.

[00:56:16] And it's like, you're in this little, any world society that all kind of makes sense as long as you're in here. But anything about like American history or aging or social relationships, that's all been forgotten. You've got the myth of a utopia inside.

[00:56:40] You know, it's sort of like, what is Milchick say episode one of the first season? He said, you don't have to worry about Petey's death. You don't have to worry about Petey's absence. You never have to experience pain or death in here. Right. That's something that we provide for you. Almost a minute later, Mark is telling Hellie, like, Milchick can't always be that nice. It's best to just obey.

[00:57:10] So you kind of see like, as long as you play by the rules, as long as you sort of remind yourself that you're an ant in the ant farm, everything's going to be perfect in here for you. Right. You're going to have food. You're going to have structure. You don't have to worry about, you know, suffering or death. And it's kind of like Logan's run in that way.

[00:57:38] In fact, Logan's run is probably that even more so. It's like, we've created the perfect society for you. You have every desire that you'd ever want. Just don't forget to play by the rules. Right. You have running as a theme. So running is like a major theme in season two. In fact, it's bookended. Yeah. We've also got an age mystery in both.

[00:58:06] You know, what is what does Miss Wong say? Are you a child? Because of when I was born. Because of when I was born. Yeah. Because of when I was born. And then they ask the old man in Logan's run, how old are you? And he says, as old as I am, I suppose. Right. Right. Yeah. That's great. So it's the same kind of joke. Okay. So you've got an age mystery in both.

[00:58:32] You kind of have sentinels observing runners in both shows. You've got almost a woes hollow thing in both shows. Right. Because in Logan's run, they go into the icebox world. Mm-hmm. And they have to put on the old timey clothing. Yeah. That's one of the ones too. Yeah. The furs. There's people frozen.

[00:58:59] You know, you have like these doppelgangers roaming through woes hollow. And then they get to see the sky for the first time. And that's a big deal. It's a really big deal in both. It gives off warmth. You know, they've got no idea of what the sun is.

[00:59:19] And you have that sense in the woes hollow episode that it's just a huge deal for them to see the outside world. Well, and they even bring it up when he has this new team. They're like, what was the sky like? And they're just like, he's like, huh? And he's like, you know, talking to my brother-in-law was like kind of low on the list of things I would do if I got out. Okay.

[00:59:48] So, and then of course, sort of the mystery cult underlying the technology. Right. Technology. And it appears at least in, you know, it's not explicit in Logan's run. But there is an implication that the obedience part of it is maybe maintained through like almost a religious lore. Well, there's a death ritual, right? Right.

[01:00:13] There's a death ritual that's sort of established and there's a religious mythology built around it. You know, in... So much so that they're excited about it. Yes. Yeah. In Logan's run, it's sort of like white masks in a circle watching people spin up into, you know, fireworks, I guess. Yeah. It's almost like their retirement ceremony for your innies, right? Right. And then of course, you've got the ritual with the goats.

[01:00:40] You know, they're going to send Gemma to the other world with, you know, with a goat guide. So there's a ritual around that. But in both cases, there's... It's not... It's sort of on the surface, it's kind of a technology sci-fi thing. But in both cases, there's this culty underpinning happening.

[01:01:05] And then the last thing, and I don't know if this is a parallel, but this is... To me, this could be the most predictive element if indeed it's not just themes. I wonder if there's an AI component in Severance. Because in Petey's map, you know, he's got this detailed map of what he's trying to, you know, put together.

[01:01:33] He's trying to map out the Severance floor. And there's this spot on the map that says, Mind. Right, right. It's a big box that says, Mind. And I don't know what that means. But you've got to pay it off. You know, you've planted that early on. Right. The mapping of the Severance floor is so important throughout.

[01:02:00] And you've got this canary in a coal mine character, Petey, who knows more than he has divulged. And he's written in very big, bold letters on this thing, Mind. And I don't know what to make of that. But it does make me wonder, like, is there a Logan's Run style, you know, AI computer? Right. Yeah, and I think for me... Either at work or trying to be built.

[01:02:30] Right. If I was going to take a predictive element out of this, it would be to suggest that the world of Kier outside is not... There's... Lumen is not the source of all this. There's a bigger domed world, so to speak. Okay. Like, I think that there... I think that part of the reason why things are maybe a little anachronistic in terms of technology and whatnot might have something to do with the fact that this world is...

[01:02:58] This outside world isn't purely outside. Right. So that kind of brings us back to one of our earliest theories. But I will say this. If you had a Lumen-Kier kind of ideology around going to war against pain and suffering, like, that's the religious appeal to this thing, is that we're using the technology available to us to end suffering.

[01:03:28] A logical outcome to that might be a world like we see in Logan's Run. Right. Because there was this idea, at least... And again, I think that's where I would say that the inspiration of a Logan's Run is maybe based not only on the appreciation of some of the themes, but maybe a frustration of the lack of flushing some of them out. And this is an opportunity to say, okay, well, I can create a Logan's Run type...

[01:03:57] You know, I can play with the themes, but I can answer... You know, the part that I would have been the most interested in, I get to now create, like, maybe as a showrunner. You know, you have this opportunity to say, look, I can either... You know, and I'm just... You know, I'm not speaking for them, but, like, you could potentially see a situation where you're like, well, I would love to remake it, but I don't want to just remake Logan's Run. I don't want it to be compared to Logan's Run.

[01:04:22] Let's take what we saw and explore the things that we found the most interesting. Like, who are these people in the white mask? Let's talk about those, the people in Great Vita. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. It could be that this is kind of like just a season two thing. Mm-hmm. You know, let's just really sort of do a Logan's Run themed season.

[01:04:50] Or it could be that they're trying to tell us something. Right. And that's, yeah, because I think it could also, yeah, like you said, it could just be like, look, there's some thematics here that we really do owe to Logan's Run. So maybe it is almost a respectful homage and not necessarily a clue of where things are going. But it could just be also like, look, I owe a lot to this. And so let's have some fun with that. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:15] Did thinking about Severance impact your ability to watch the show or the movie and maybe give it a little bit more interest than you might not have otherwise had? It wasn't that big of a chore. I mean, it wasn't like I was like deeply emotionally connected to the film and I was distracted in some way because of Severance. Gotcha. But I did get to hear my wife make fun of your theory a number of times.

[01:05:45] That's nice. It's like, so Steve thinks this is what Severance is based on, huh? Well, and I, and, and if, you know, my only counter to that is like, ha ha, you're watching a Logan's Run show. We, I know we, she could not finish. So she was like right in the middle, but she's, I would say that she saw most of it.

[01:06:14] And we quite enjoyed it. She would probably not say that we enjoyed it as much as I think that we did. Yeah. Those are my favorites. And I'm like, ah, we had a really good time. Heather's like, uh, you did. I heard a lot of laughter from her side of the room. So, I mean, look, we, we could probably cover Logan's Run a lot. We could, we could just do it almost exclusively.

[01:06:41] We could do a Logan's Run, uh, portioned every episode. That's right. Yeah. Welcome to, welcome to the next season of Properly Logan. Is this better, worse, or on par with Logan's Run? I like the idea of adding a category like, um, what element from Logan's Run would best fit in this movie?

[01:07:09] Steve, I feel like we ought to let people know that we have not, um, we have not forgotten about our Kevin Bacon season. No, no. Uh, it is, uh, it's, it's a little bit on the back burner because of other things that are happening, including us reading the Dunkin' Egg novellas over at Electric Bukaloo.

[01:07:34] Um, but I will note that I was quite happy to see that there's going to be a new Kevin Bacon show coming up. Ah, yes. This is the, uh. The Bondsman. Yes, The Bondsman. Um, is it out? The Bondsman. Do we know if it's? It, it's going to be out soon if it's not out now. And it's on, I think it's on Amazon Prime. And just, let me just run the premise past you.

[01:08:02] Um, he's basically a bounty hunter who dies and gets sent back from the afterlife to hunt down demons. Sounds pretty great. Pretty great premise. Pretty great premise. I'm, I'm always happy, uh, when Bacon decides to do a movie where he's not a pedophile. How do you know he's not?

[01:08:28] Well, I don't, but, um, I'm kind of hoping that, that the character's not, doesn't have an extra bit of complication. That'll be the season finale. Excellent. The Bondsman and the Woodsman are in the same cinematic universe.

[01:09:59] The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. In one podcast called The Lorehounds by Some, a weekly recap with tons of analysis, two Wheel of Time superfans will lead you through a world of powerful magic, tricky prophecies, and cutthroat politics. Join me, John, and my co-host Alicia for weekly coverage of season three by searching your podcast app for The Lorehounds. Dovyeandi se tovas again.

[01:10:29] It's time to roll the dice.