Steve and Anthony spotlight Darkman.
Our deep thanks to David who created an overview of this season of Properly Howard.
https://thelorehounds.notion.site/ph-newlywed2026?v=3122becba2ee805aa566000c9a84594a&pvs=143
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00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other folk fiction.
00:25 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Today we take a look at Sam Ramey's Dark Man, starring a steamed actor's Liam Neeson and Francis McDormon.
00:31 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Darkman is dark, darkman.
00:34 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_02]: He's trying to darkman.
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a really weird way to say it.
00:40 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_01]: The score, the score performed by Danny Dirkman.
00:47 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're Danny Elfman, suppose the score for Darkman.
00:53 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This film was originally called Elfman, but when they actually got Danny Elfman to come and he's like, he's pronounced Elfman, they had to change the name.
01:05 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So Steve, film three in our newlywed season, I think three is a good number to notice themes developing.
01:15 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so I wrote down a few themes here.
01:18 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_01]: One is that all three of the films we've covered so far, there is a love interest.
01:25 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_01]: There's sort of a B-plot love story, which I think, you know, it's fitting with the newlywed season.
01:33 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_01]: To humanize the protagonist, there is a lovely lady involved.
01:45 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Last Starfighter had an Android doppelganger, and this one is sort of the entire movie is promised on his, like that's his superpowers that he can become your doppelganger, and of course, there is a movie later in the season where I chose the movie because I thought that one of the actors was your son's doppelganger, so, right, right, right, we have that to look forward to.
02:13 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, also games, of course, because, you know, Newly with game, but, you know, running man is the entire thing is premise on the game show video game and the last start by the video game will get you into outer space carnival games and uh, and I was thinking carnival games.
02:29 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
02:29 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, carnival games.
02:31 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of like carnival games like I'm not not a big carnival fan.
02:36 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like the experience of being at a carnival.
02:39 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: What's your least favorite part?
02:41 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: of being at the carnival?
02:42 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:43 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Carnies?
02:44 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So...
02:46 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind carnies.
02:47 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of lay 17.
02:48 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_01]: $17 cans of Modello.
02:50 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the idea that there are people who still... That's still their job.
02:56 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_02]: They... they... they... they... they... they...
02:59 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They... they... they... they... they... they... they...
03:01 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I do like... it feels like an old-timey job.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like... these people existed when...
03:06 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't do background checks or drug testing.
03:11 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_01]: None of that.
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like an old time.
03:14 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a popular.
03:15 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_02]: None of those, none of those liberal progressive movement, right?
03:18 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Like just if you can, if you can flip a switch, you're hired.
03:23 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There are certain jobs that continue to be jobs, even in the modern world.
03:28 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Carney is one of them.
03:30 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the big zest.
03:32 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a fan of AI, but I would be OK if a computer ran as far as real as opposed to some of the other options I've seen.
03:40 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a new form of connourist, you know, the program is meant to con you.
03:44 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The carnies are meant to con you, and you, and with both, you kind of play along.
03:48 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, yeah, I'm just going to be a sucker.
03:51 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be fun to be a sucker for a few minutes here because who knows, maybe all, maybe it'll be the system.
03:58 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't it be kind of cool if I could beat the system when it's rigged against me?
04:04 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't cost me that much.
04:06 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Carnies use a lot less of our water resources.
04:10 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sort of pro-carnie as opposed to AI.
04:14 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so in your hierarchy, AI still has not, it hasn't displaced Carnie as a preferred option.
04:23 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I like doing research online, do not like the AI enhancements.
04:29 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not like being at a carnival, and yet I do enjoy the carnies.
04:34 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That was close.
04:34 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned playing games.
04:36 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you play the games if you go to a carnival?
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I might play one or two games.
04:40 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:40 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I was always not allowed to.
04:42 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I can see why my parents say they're rigged.
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you don't know how good I am.
04:47 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: In this one instance, your parents were good at parenting.
04:50 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the one here.
04:51 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the thing is like that go to the basketball in there.
04:53 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_02]: They're the rig.
04:54 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not regular basketball hoops.
04:56 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, have you seen me play at a regular basketball hoop?
04:59 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I might be made for this.
05:04 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it when you could win a goldfish and like that's that's the worst thing.
05:09 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I mean, imagine like here's a little pro tip for if any of you kids listening, if you're going to play the goldfish winning game.
05:20 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_02]: In the event you win the goldfish, I would do that towards the end of the day.
05:23 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because you don't want to be lugging a goldfish around for the rest of the day.
05:27 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Go to the carnival and night if your intention is to get a goldfish.
05:31 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a sweet spot, right?
05:32 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you don't get the goldfish, uh, you know, before it's expiration date, if you can.
05:39 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:39 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of why I liked old-timey video arcades that had other kinds of games like ski ball.
05:47 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Because ski ball was, it felt like that's kind of a little bit like a carnival game.
05:51 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't have to be outside in the heat sweating with a bunch of people bustling around with sweat and body odor.
06:03 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You asked me the least, the thing I like least about the carnivals, it's that other people are there.
06:07 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.
06:09 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Hard to go words, this is how I feel about church.
06:17 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You might like a cathedral setting.
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It happens to be other people around.
06:21 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I might actually enjoy being surrounded by the word of God, if nobody else is speaking it.
06:29 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That was quite a scene that carnival scene.
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
06:32 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_02]: most comfortable fingers in the carnival, right?
06:37 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a little part of me in this film that I thought.
06:39 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe he can make this work, you know, he's on the cutting edge of a fake skin.
06:45 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be better.
06:51 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It would be better in Dippitus, right?
06:53 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_02]: The guy who was just on the cutting edge of
07:01 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_02]: like a whole mess of it.
07:03 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you think, like, okay, he's on the cutting edge of fake skin, you know, I'm not sure how is technology or sometimes it's technology is fantastic.
07:15 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes he needs to start it using a lawnmower cable.
07:20 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a little bit of a question about how good his technology actually is.
07:26 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought maybe he would be able to get the girl at the end.
07:31 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, oh, he could have, that's the beauty of dark man.
07:35 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, well, it's that carnival scene where you realize, like, he's he's psychologically damaged, like, he's not coming back from this at this moment.
07:46 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: At this moment, winning that pink elephant has driven him insane.
07:52 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, he's no longer, he's no longer fit for a normal romantic relationship.
07:58 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I, I mean, you know, maybe maybe we're looking at this from obviously different angles.
08:07 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He, he knew she deserved a pink elephant and, and he earned the pink elephant exactly.
08:16 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is, and this is the moral of the dark man is like, like, there are obstacles.
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them are.
08:23 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You know CEOs of real estate, yeah, major development come that has an incredible balance.
08:34 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that could be your enemy.
08:35 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Your enemy could be a, it could be Larry Drake.
08:41 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I like not want to go up against Larry Drake.
08:44 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he's doing, but that face is very intimidating.
08:48 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
08:49 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a lot of these, but also your enemy, your obstacle, your very Drake's super power is BDI's.
08:58 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you could also be facing some of the challenges
09:03 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_02]: carnies who are trying to take your money and not give you the Miguel of them.
09:08 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So you think that the the carnie is really kind of a light motif for the entire movie.
09:13 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and so here you have, so does Liam Neeson's character maybe go a little over the top?
09:21 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's because we play at St. because we are so, you know, we're trained to be passive.
09:27 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
09:27 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he goes over the top because I don't think those are real
09:33 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they're nerf fingers and he knows they're bendable and then the guy was upset because his nerf fingers were exposed to the frauds that they were So let me take the I like I wanted to hear that that guy's backstory like He loses his hands.
09:48 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_01]: He cries just like Liam Neeson does but he happens to be on the cutting edge of nerf technology Yeah, so just so long as nobody shakes his hand
09:59 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and that's probably why he's upset because he sees this guy get a super good grip on a ball and he's like, you know what this is just like this is he's he's he's he's doing this job and he's like, I'm just trying to take all these regular kung fu grip fools down or not.
10:16 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So this movie is my first time seeing it me too.
10:20 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the other try to convince me we had already seen it.
10:22 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I think so that there would be no temptation for me to ask her to watch it.
10:28 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I did not.
10:29 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I watched it on my own.
10:30 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a good husband.
10:30 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I got it.
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my pink elephant gift.
10:33 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
10:35 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I had never seen it and the only thing I'd ever seen was this carnival scene.
10:38 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It showed up on one of my Instagram reels and I didn't think this was real.
10:42 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what is this?
10:42 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, there's no way this movie is a movie.
10:45 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what I'm like, I couldn't believe what I was seeing and then when I read in the
10:59 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_02]: This is one of my favorite movies we've watched and all of a sudden.
11:03 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I figured it would be, I kept on making it and I figured you would figure it would be.
11:07 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say this.
11:08 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: The first ten minutes of this movie was, I laughed a lot.
11:12 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I laughed a lot a lot a lot.
11:14 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I like a gang that can include some with none checks and a guy in overalls.
11:20 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude, I had everything.
11:22 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like these guys, these guys are clearly work buddies.
11:26 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not, they're not hanging out after punching the clock or whatever.
11:31 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: One plan, they won't plan and that was, get that leg.
11:34 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I like you guys being frisked while he eats a canoly or a dog treat or whatever that was.
11:42 --> 11:42 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
11:42 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I laughed a lot the the first time in the movie and I thought Steve is probably having the time of his life watching this Um, I think Sam Ramey may be a cilantro thing for me.
11:54 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh Easily I can recognize the genius of this movie and I can view this movie as sort of something like This is absolutely in Steve's wheelhouse.
12:05 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I respect Steve's tastes.
12:07 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I bet you he's really enjoying this.
12:09 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I fell asleep twice
12:12 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's worth it's
12:37 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I am doing a sleep study lately this week and that's part of the, you know, you have to fill out the questionnaire and mild narcolepsy while watching Sam Ramey.
12:52 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I think this is a particular kind of movie for a particular kind of taste and for me, it tastes like soap at times.
13:02 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like I I always enjoyed this movie when it was super over the top like when Liam He sent his own dancing dancing for the cat.
13:13 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh Fantastic do it more.
13:17 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to see that the entire film
13:22 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: every scene well all right let me just say this like this I'll do my one tweak now whenever the Lewis stack junior character like the developer the the sort of vaguely Italian developer was on screen I just thought completely boring I was bored every single time he is on screen except for
13:51 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I think at that point in the film, I already hated them.
13:54 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And I find out that like, I'm like, dude, this guy's, this guy's, he can't fall because he was, he was, he, he, that is a young boy.
14:03 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_02]: He was, he was sent to work on the, on the high steel.
14:07 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, see, you're, you're still in, you're still in.
14:11 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, I'm, I'm way, way, way out.
14:14 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So I felt like there was part of me during this film that kept waiting for Bruce Campbell to show up.
14:22 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, I did, I did like Evil Dead.
14:25 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that was sort of a Sam-Ramey movie that, or Evil Dead too, right?
14:32 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like that was a Sam-Ramey movie that I enjoyed and I kept waiting for Bruce Campbell.
14:38 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: When you got him,
14:39 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I waited and waited, and all the time I was thinking, why is it was a guy named Colin Freel's?
14:48 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The big batty in this movie, why not use Bruce Campbell in this role?
14:53 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really lackluster bad guy, given the fact that you're super hero was basically a monster.
15:01 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So I felt like that was kind of a flaw.
15:03 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when we finally got Bruce Campbell at the end, I thought,
15:06 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how you use Bruce Campbell.
15:10 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't you give him the other part that had infinitely more lines, and infinitely more scenes?
15:18 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's my tweak.
15:20 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know that's who we originally wanted.
15:22 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_01]: to be.
15:23 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not know that and it makes sense now that you say that that that would be the first choice.
15:31 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So he wanted him but the studio didn't think that he was a well-known enough to carry this film because I think they were thinking franchise and and if you think about it if you look at the way that this movie at the way Liam Neeson is and so they chose
15:46 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Colin Freels, who I, I just had to, who I notes again because he's so forgettable.
15:51 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_02]: When a Bruce, sorry, Bruce Campbell was was supposed to play the lead role.
15:58 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he was was to play Liam Neeson's part.
16:00 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
16:00 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what if you look at, I mean, Liam Neeson is kind of Bruce Campbell in a lot.
16:05 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He, he, I was thinking he was Michael Richardson, but he, in reality when Liam Neeson tries to Bruce Campbell, it presents as Michael Richards.
16:16 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the, yes, um, the other actors considered for the lead were Bill Paxon and Gary Oldman.
16:25 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, give me Oldman all day long.
16:28 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I, Oldman would have been pretty incredible.
16:30 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Paxon could have been a lot of fun too.
16:33 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It would have been a different tone for sure.
16:35 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't hate Liam Mason in this.
16:37 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it was kind of it was kind of fun to see him absolutely go batch it crazy.
16:44 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think looking back that may be, um,
16:49 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_02]: his Oscar for Schindler's list was sort of a make up for the snub on this one.
16:55 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I just looked at this recently.
16:58 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He did not win for Schindler's list.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He was inominated.
17:02 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, Schindler's list went a slew of Oscars, none for best acting.
17:09 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And for me, I always thought Ray finds.
17:12 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_01]: should have won for best support.
17:13 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought, Ray, he thought he did win.
17:15 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, those guys won.
17:19 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that that is one of the best acting performances all of all time.
17:23 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And to see him do this within three years of that role, it's kind of amazing.
17:29 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It only increases my love of Liam Mason.
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought honestly, this was her.
17:37 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_02]: this was a you know something in the arsenal i didn't think he had i didn't look you may not like this because of those launcher thing but you can't tell me that he's not totally invested in this role he's what going for this role he yeah he's not mailing this in this is uh he played this as if this was important
17:56 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the, I really like the scene where he's like, he figures out that, okay, the other side of the face is in complete data.
18:06 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's see here, I could just mirror the face to the other side and then he tells himself, yes, that's it clever clever.
18:14 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I love how his notes, he writes like in perfect like almost computer font with unstable.
18:26 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not getting graded on this, man.
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: You're just trying to make, makes it again.
18:30 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so leave me since fantastic.
18:33 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Frances Mac Dorman, who has one in Oscar?
18:37 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Who has one multiple Oscars, who's been nominated for eight Oscars and has one three.
18:43 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she's horrible in this movie.
18:49 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I just watched Fargo, like,
18:52 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe four nights ago and just breathtaking, just jaw droppingly amazing in Fargo, lover in Fargo.
19:02 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's her.
19:03 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in this movie it's the line she's given.
19:06 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't blame this movie on Francis McDormand.
19:11 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe she's a wrong person for this part, but more than that I just think the lines she's given are just really dull.
19:22 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's more of a plot device, right?
19:23 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_02]: She's more of a because I mean, they could doesn't make any sense that she would have a relationship with.
19:30 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_01]: She's every bit of a prop as Maggie in the last starfighter.
19:35 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And but the trouble is is you're teasing me with Francis McDormand, right?
19:41 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So now Francis McDormand isn't Francis McDormand yet, right, or is she?
19:45 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Is she already?
19:46 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: She's been in blood simple.
19:47 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
19:48 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she is.
19:49 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean.
19:50 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: She's been in raising Arizona, I think, so it's not like she's unknown and she's you know she's she's been in some decent movies I guess the con brothers are actually in this movie.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_02]: This is true
20:07 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they make a cameo as like the two guys in a car.
20:13 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: There are two guys in an old small deal.
20:15 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that was what Wikipedia is about.
20:18 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't, you know, I love the comb brothers.
20:21 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like I would recognize them on the street if I was walking past that.
20:25 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
20:25 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess Ted Ramey was Rick in this movie.
20:30 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Ted Ramey's got to be related to Sam Ramey, right?
20:34 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that is.
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_02]: this, it's his brother.
20:39 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well there you go.
20:41 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, this movie is a, this movie is kind of genius.
20:46 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot to come in this movie.
20:48 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the way it ends.
20:50 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the, I like the premise of the movie.
20:54 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the Liam Neeson performance and they're just long stretches of this movie that I'm yawning.
21:00 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't see what that kind of surprises me because I feel like the movie
21:05 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: moments where it's not doing something.
21:08 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would say the helicopter sequence to me almost feels akin to the fight sequence and they live in the sense that it just won't quite go away.
21:18 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_01]: This entire, this entire film is the fight sequence of people.
21:25 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So I want to go back, I would do want to get into this movie, but I do want to get a little ramey.
21:28 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_02]: You say, so so you have the experience with ramey and you're saying
21:37 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, like, they're little Spider-Man or Spider-Man, too.
21:40 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you know that I have a very tenuous history with horror, right?
21:47 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you think of Tim Ray, Ted Ray, me, Ted Ray, me, Sam Ray, me.
21:51 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you think of Sam Ray, me as primarily a horror director?
21:59 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So he's definitely made some iconic
22:05 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think if you look at the evil dead sort of is kind of feels like, uh, the signature move up until, um, we get the Spider-Man trilogy right.
22:17 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of feel with Remy that that's the first line of his obituary, you know, iconic horror director.
22:26 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But army of darkness is.
22:28 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say more comedy than horror.
22:30 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, and I would say Evil 2 is sort of absolute combination of comedy and horror.
22:36 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a specific kind of horror.
22:39 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I love, back in the day, I love those Spider-Man films, but, you know, it's a Spider-Man film.
22:46 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm.
22:47 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It just had a ganache the other night that had chocolate and peanut butter.
22:51 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I was not going to get a ganache But it's like you told you tell me it's chocolate and peanut butter.
22:56 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to I'm going to try it for sure.
22:58 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try it So I think that's maybe my my experience with bramey.
23:03 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like yeah, see I I enjoy I mean I wouldn't say these are like necessarily amazing, but like drag me to hell I thought was a lot of fun
23:12 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Simple plan.
23:13 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember like and it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I have not seen either of these I never saw this is part of my problem with Ramey is that like someone who's not a horror aficionado I probably just don't have the The history I even kind of enjoyed for the love of the game, you know He did for the love of the game.
23:34 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that movie has a lot of problems.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but I mean I was
23:39 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_02]: entertained by when I first saw it I've only seen it once I can imagine watching it again crawl I thought was entertaining I mean like I've seen um I mean I wouldn't say that I I've seen like the bulk by any stretch but I uh I definitely um I definitely have enjoyed what he does I get it you could maybe have the same conversation with Rami as you have maybe a John carpenter in the sense that like you kind of know what you're
24:09 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: They both are very self-aware directors.
24:13 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_02]: They agree with that.
24:14 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_02]: They kind of do what they want.
24:15 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, at no point in this film that I think, they kind of don't know what they're doing.
24:20 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they don't know what kind of tone they're going for.
24:22 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: No, Ramey is very self-aware.
24:25 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He has a vision for his films.
24:28 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't usually lose track of the vision.
24:31 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
24:32 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, so for me, it's like this movie is more of a casting issue
24:37 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I can see that.
24:38 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I definitely think that there are some improvements that can be made, but this is a movie that like start to finish, like the tone is the tone and if you don't like it, then you're not going to like it, but if you're in, you probably won't be lost at some point.
24:58 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to talk to you about the Wranger Barrett's technique.
25:04 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: along.
25:05 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So Dr. Westlake is discovered in the drink, pulled out, thinking that he was a corpse.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They bring him to the hospital.
25:16 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a doctor, she's half sort of trauma doctor, half experimental scientist.
25:25 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And she says that they're using something called the Ranger Barrett's technique, which, as far as I can tell, is like Wheel of Fortune, because you're basically just spinning
25:41 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she gleefully pokes him to show that he can't feel anything.
25:47 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she says that it's going to make him have superhuman strength.
25:52 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
25:53 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, typical.
25:56 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So in this world, in in this world, I think almost all scientists are developing technology that might eventually lead to some kind of superhuman monster, right?
26:10 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah, this is this is like the cold war of superhuman monster.
26:16 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... so the ringer bear's technique just involves a lot of spinning um... i get it i got a no more about it i don't know if any of this i think that there are two sequels i'd like to know if the ringer bear's technique is sort of the origin story to some other super velland
26:37 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_01]: because clearly this is not the first time this woman is done this because she's presenting her research to other people in the room.
26:45 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: She seems to be better at the ringer bearer, it's technique that he is at developing fake skin.
26:51 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is that little sequence I thought, honestly, I thought it was a bit of genius because it's like, then this one I'm talking about in terms of like the self awareness, right?
27:04 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_02]: We know what we want to do in terms of the skin and the whole dark man thing.
27:08 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_02]: We know we want to do that.
27:09 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But we also kind of want to want to up the ante for him, right?
27:13 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Like he needs like, like just being able to change your face and everything.
27:17 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Because everything starts with the carnival scene, what it's going to be able to explain that he can throw a carny through a back wall.
27:24 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
27:25 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And so point, we're going to have to give him super humans.
27:28 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they're like, well, how do you like, I mean,
27:34 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, something about the formula of this synthetic skin alters the, you know, the, you know, the overall strength of me, you know, it fuses to the muscles, you can you could do something like that, right, but it, which actually, you know, probably, you know, why not right.
27:49 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're already creating a synthetic skin that's unstable.
27:52 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So why not add a little twist to it, like, you can do that for sure could do that.
27:57 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But they, but they choose not to like the skin is now bullet proof for the skin is now.
28:03 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that I love that they opted not to because they're like no, no, no, no, we we're going to go even faster than that we're going to just give you a little bit of exposition because it also does you got to do something that explains like how can he be so severely disfigured and discarded and then still be like be alive like you got to bring him back to life right and so if the skin is this thing that can help him but he wouldn't have had the skin on him right so you got to do something else there has to be another
28:31 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_02]: thing.
28:31 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, if you are thinking in terms of maybe a long term, you know, franchise having that moment, you could have somebody be like, you know, you could have to rant maybe he goes in there and he gets that.
28:44 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_02]: treatment.
28:44 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_02]: He gets spun around in a wheel and you know, and so now you've created an archnemesis, right?
28:49 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So like you do sort of, you could consider that a little bit of world building.
28:54 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So this movie fooled me.
28:57 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_01]: When, when, when dark man shows up at the end in disguise, he's disguised as Robert Durant.
29:06 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: his face is a little bit bruised up little bloodied lip or whatever.
29:11 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I was I thought this is the this is the guy happens I was totally fooled.
29:19 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie has told me over and over and over.
29:21 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_01]: This guy's a master of disguise.
29:25 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I could see how you walk away from that.
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_01]: helicopter explosion.
29:30 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: None worse for their wear.
29:33 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, you know, so when he pulls off the mask and like, of course, I'm so stupid.
29:40 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, of course, that's him.
29:43 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And but he is, here was my thinking.
29:46 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That same scientist must have got a hold of him.
29:49 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_01]: and done the ringer bears to me, I don't see it yet I love that.
29:53 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's gonna have to because that's what superhero movies do like now you're out to face someone of equal or greater strength, right, ability and that of course that must be what just happened to Durant.
30:06 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I thought it was going.
30:10 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So clearly I was wrong, but maybe that's something they developed in the sequel.
30:17 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any desire to see
30:19 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I do, but it's like, because it's not Nissan or Rainy, and it's sort of like, I kind of feels like it might be like a straight-to-video-type joint, you know.
30:33 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious, but I can't imagine.
30:37 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of these things where, like, if you need Rainy
30:48 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And I do mean this and like as a compliment because it is a bit of shlock and but it's it's done so earnestly my concern is that the sequel will be maybe as shlocky if not more but it will lack the self awareness that it's kind of lucky and then try to and then try to make something that's like more sinister or just I think I just could just picture it feeling less fun
31:16 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_02]: and that that's kind of the reason why I don't necessarily want to go into this universe.
31:21 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me just say something, this is one of those times when sometimes your spouse knows you better than you do.
31:29 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_01]: As you're newlywed, I can guarantee you that you're going to watch both of these sequels.
31:33 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
31:34 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You may doubt yourself now.
31:38 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe I don't want to watch it.
31:40 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I can guarantee you that you're eventually going to want to put it on.
31:44 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I would feel even less inclined to watch the third one if it wasn't called die dark man die.
31:59 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, it's just so funny to me that scientists on the cutting edge of technology can be so stupid.
32:11 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, these guys are so stupid.
32:14 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like why isn't working?
32:16 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe we should try again.
32:18 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we should be objective and try again.
32:20 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
32:23 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what your method should be, Mr.
32:27 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Scientist?
32:28 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what happens when you get a team like Sam Rameen and his cohorts and they're like, you wanna bring like, I have a friend who's, he's not a scientist per se, but he's been in a lab.
32:39 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, we'll figure it out.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I know how scientists speak probably.
32:45 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that he tells you I can teach those like, okay, we're doing everything right and we're smart guys.
32:51 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So why isn't this a little bit of a little bit of steward smiley there?
32:55 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I also like that.
32:59 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I also like that.
33:00 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We're good enough.
33:01 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_01]: We're science.
33:02 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_02]: This being the era that it is.
33:05 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Yacotito is faced with some baddies.
33:08 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And so he immediately gets into like a martial arts dance.
33:12 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And isn't that bad?
33:13 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He immediately disarms one of the guys if if it was just Yagatito in the room with one of these guns my money's on Yagatito.
33:24 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some pretty decent moves but unfortunately I kind of like Francis McDorman.
33:32 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just enough to remind you that he's Asian, right?
33:36 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's like let's yeah, let's make sure it's too ambiguous because you know his mother's life Make sure that we play up the stereotype because maybe they forgot Yoke Tito was Japanese That also like you can stop using the leg gun
33:58 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The leg going was hilarious, the addition of the guy hopping in place, that's pretty great.
34:05 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of brilliant, it's like, alright, the leg going is stupid, that's enough, that's going to make me laugh.
34:11 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It takes the same ramey to be like, yeah, but the guy who only has one leg is going to just hop.
34:18 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just going to continuously hop to remind you that he once had a wooden leg there.
34:25 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_02]: The plan is so good, by the way, that there are, I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 37 bad guys or, you know, let me just say this.
34:36 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have a fake leg gun at your disposal, you don't really need to plan very well.
34:45 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know that, but just by the, by design, you're going to sort of, you know, loose pun intended to alarm these folks because there's going to be a moment where they're like, whoa, and that, whoa moment is the flinch.
35:01 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the flinch that you can, you can capitalize on.
35:04 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And now the thing is is that they didn't necessarily account for guys in cars in giant shipping
35:14 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_02]: because they didn't, they are not surprised by the legons.
35:16 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So they don't have that flinch.
35:17 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_02]: However, they do have to start the car and floor it out of there because you don't want the car's idling because it would be too noisy and it would also create a whole carbon monoxide issue.
35:28 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it was, they had it's a pretty good card.
35:31 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they had the cars in those boxes, you know, in the giant shipping containers.
35:38 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: There were guys with, you know, the guns cocked within those,
35:43 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_01]: what they found out and what the audience finds out simultaneously is that the leg gun is the ace of spades when you're playing spades so unfortunately for them and unfortunately for Eddie Black Eddie Black finds out that when Durant walks in with a guy and a leg gun you're going to lose all 10 fingers yeah he fingers in hands a big big part of this
36:14 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_04]: They took my hands.
36:39 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's arguably the funniest part of the movie.
36:46 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, at this point, you're just like, man, he is going for it.
36:50 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_01]: This is when Spielberg, Spielberg saw this in thought.
36:54 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my shit.
36:55 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And the whole time he's watching the the delies, he's like, it was great.
37:02 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, could you give me a little dark man?
37:04 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, could you give me just a little more?
37:06 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_02]: like when you have the watch and you and you're like thinking about whether or not like you could have done more could you like just lose your freaking mind about it.
37:15 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Spielberg is sitting down to dinner with the co-in brothers.
37:19 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I'm ready to make this film.
37:22 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I just need my Oscar.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I need my Oscar Schiller.
37:25 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And once I have him in place, I'm going for it.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make this film.
37:30 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the film that I was born to make.
37:36 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I happen to have a VHS of Dark Man, which you'll have to look at this guy.
37:43 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Pass forwarded directly to the, I lost my hand scene and the rest is history.
37:49 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how it works, I mean, that's, it's, it's, it's, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it
38:03 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_02]: same better or worse if he's if he's the Liam Neeson role.
38:10 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Or as part of the charm the fact that it began sort of retroactively looking at Liam Neeson in this because maybe at the time you're not necessarily as like taken with another no pun intended with with him as an actor.
38:32 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I think that this movie kinda has like a cult following, right?
38:36 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
38:37 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like I would have entered this movie thinking about it differently if it was Bruce Campbell.
38:42 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're just playing the expectations game, Bruce Campbell does bring a certain something to the table, right?
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:49 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But part, I think part of what intrigued me about this was it's Liam Neeson and Francis McDormand.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my gosh.
38:58 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to see these two god level actors in the hands of Sam Ramey.
39:06 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a little bit of like fascination to this for me.
39:11 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, and I'm with you, but I'm just trying to figure out Liam Neeson's not quite that yet, right?
39:17 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's been in things like
39:19 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_02]: next of kin high spirits he was the bad guy in the dead pool you know he's got like he's he's a known person but I don't but like yeah I wonder how much of it is like he's
39:34 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a really big deal versus like, oh no, he's solid.
39:38 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's I think it was I think this movie is improved with Liam Neeson.
39:42 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I would hate this movie with Bruce Campbell and might have set my expectations a little bit differently.
39:47 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I was most disappointed with Francis, we dormant, no, because I guess maybe I would just come on off far go.
39:59 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I already talked about my tweet.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a tweet that you think would improve this movie?
40:07 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think the, um, I do think that I agree.
40:13 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_02]: The actor playing stack is does, doesn't do a lot for me.
40:20 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, he's not, I actually, I don't think I just like him as much as you do.
40:23 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I do,
40:29 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that balance isn't up to make him, like he just doesn't command.
40:37 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to me, Larry Drake is way more interesting and menacing than, absolutely, in stack.
40:44 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So when you get this sort of reveal that he's working for stack, typically when you see something like that, when you see that there's what you assume is your big body is actually subservient to this other,
40:57 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like I'm saying, go and catch, I mean, Jack Polances is this is the main batty, right?
41:02 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and you need that kind of, uh, Polance would have been fantastic.
41:07 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing about, and I think I understand what they were trying to do for this particular plot.
41:12 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You need someone who's believably attractive.
41:18 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_01]: to the love interest.
41:21 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:21 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of create that love triangle thing, right?
41:23 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you, if you had a jackpulance, he would be an additive, right?
41:30 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But would, would make, can you see my dormant with polance?
41:35 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_01]: No, maybe in this movie one.
41:37 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I guess, I guess, I guess I, I was thinking like, I mean, keep in mind, she was actually kind of willing to stay with the guy with half of face.
41:47 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't see why Bruce Campbell couldn't pull that off.
41:51 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a very handsome man, right?
41:54 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And that would be a very kind of as crazy eyes.
41:56 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that would be a good back and forth to Liam Neeson and over the like them over the top in each other.
42:02 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I think would be really something.
42:04 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Bruce Campbell fatal flaw.
42:07 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_01]: No balance.
42:08 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: They got him on those beams and then you're watching to do He got him on the beams and he just would fall every time.
42:14 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got vertigo
42:21 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a, is there a cliche device or trope in this movie that you enjoyed?
42:27 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's actually had, you actually mentioned one of my, uh, one of my favorite, it's, it's, it's just, the presence of nunchucks used or unused is really important to me.
42:40 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_02]: but the other thing I really liked and it kind of says that we don't really see in action.
42:44 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that one flip that you learn as a 12 year old.
42:48 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's safe enough that you don't hit yourself in the face.
42:50 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
42:51 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And I love, I mean, and there is a natural comedic element of when you're like, it's kind of like, like, you're watching airplane and they could be on where like, you're taking all these guys weapons and then in the process you're pulling out and none chucks, right?
43:06 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, it would all be guns.
43:09 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Like some guy's coming in with Nunchucks, just in case we're gonna do this a little more close.
43:14 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And I do, and the other thing I really liked is, I love when a bad guy is filing his nails, while he's like, given it over there.
43:25 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
43:26 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say, I was gonna talk about Eddie Black as well.
43:30 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he should have been in more of the movie for sure.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:34 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I like it when, or so here's what he says.
43:38 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: No leg.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Nox is his wood leg.
43:42 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He says I was engaged to a girl with a wooden leg.
43:46 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Had to break it off.
43:48 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:48 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
43:48 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
43:48 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like it when a big boss tells a joke.
43:52 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: All of his guns laugh.
43:54 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But they laugh a little bit too long.
43:57 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he very angrily silences them.
44:00 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good stuff.
44:01 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was wondering, have you ever done that on stage?
44:04 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have never seen a comic do that on stage, but I think it would be very funny.
44:09 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if the audience had already looked because they're like, to get a big laugh and then to yell out, cut the crap.
44:17 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a minute.
44:18 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Quiet you.
44:19 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_02]: No, another part that I'd really liked was, there's just so much, there's a lot of really funny stuff.
44:26 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, whether it's intentional or not, but like, when
44:29 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_02]: like they're letting us know that like they're baked basically was like no body found and he's like, he's like, you know, just he's all didn't take long very in a year or whatever.
44:38 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like you buried the year.
44:39 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I do like a cynical grave digger.
44:47 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a guy that works at the cemetery and his job is digging graves.
44:52 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's kind of over it, near the night, nothing really faces this guy.
44:58 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why this happens, tell me, tell me what you think about this.
45:01 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So after undergoing the Wranger Barrett's technique, I think I might be pronouncing that.
45:08 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I apologize if I'm pronouncing this wrong.
45:11 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't actually read this in a journal, I'm getting it from the film.
45:19 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: After undergoing the Wranger Barrett's technique, he escapes and goes back to his old
45:29 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And the first thing he does is he picks up a little portable TV and he like bangs on it to see if it works.
45:39 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like was that his initial plan?
45:41 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I gotta get back his days of our lives and I gotta watch my shows.
45:48 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_01]: These eyes still work.
45:53 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I got it caught up.
45:55 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to find out what's happening to Bowen, Leyla, and then maybe like it doesn't TV doesn't work, so then he's thinking, ah, fine.
46:05 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll see if I can I'll try to get my my skin technology that perfected since I can't watch my stories.
46:16 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's kind of a fascinating film because
46:21 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It almost is like a kind of a you've got like some fan of the opera type elements absolutely so you you have a movie where you that you've made A monster origin story and a superhero origin story simultaneously and that's that is so ambitious right and so I feel like I feel you feel like I feel like it executes kind of on both It's a little bit
46:50 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit the shadow, right?
46:52 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I think initially he wanted to do a remake of the shadow and he couldn't quite get that off the ground.
46:58 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is what came about.
46:59 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of superheroes, origin stories involve like being pushed into a bat by a bad guy.
47:07 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like he has just a bat of what now?
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have a lid on that thing, Matt.
47:15 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_02]: This should have a lockable lid.
47:20 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's usually the bad guy, the bad guy is usually like a mad scientist who experiments on himself and things go awry.
47:29 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:30 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see that in a lot of spider-man stuff.
47:33 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So they do that for this and at the end of the day, I don't know if he's a superhero.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_01]: He might be a bad guy.
47:40 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know at the end of the day.
47:43 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Try to bring justice in the former revenge, right?
47:47 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:48 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And that way he's a little bit that man and that brings me to my next point.
47:55 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Did the Elfman score enhance this movie or did it hurt this movie?
48:02 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked it.
48:02 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's it thing is about Elfman is like it's it's so recognizable and it's in a times I kept thinking like this is a variation on the Batman theme.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it certainly does feel like that.
48:17 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And that reminded me of one of your critiques, sometimes it's like, well, that just reminds me of a better movie.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
48:24 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of wish I was watching that movie.
48:26 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:27 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But for you, it didn't hurt it.
48:28 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Inbot, I mean, it was definitely noticeable.
48:32 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But there was a slight campy quality to the score
48:43 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_02]: like kind of it was like melodramatic and just a touch kind of poppy in a weird way that I feel really went well with sort of the vibe of the movie.
48:56 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna ask a really dumb question.
48:59 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Why didn't dark man do more things in the dark?
49:06 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I was because the whole thing, the whole thing that we discover,
49:11 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_02]: is that, well, the skin is stable in the dark at night.
49:16 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And he did all of his skin planning in the day, and he had like 99 minutes to pull it off.
49:24 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm off.
49:25 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_02]: You did any of this stuff at night.
49:27 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like if you're like, you could kind of do a lot of things like maybe maybe don't go to a carnival during the day, maybe maybe your doctor appointments are in the day.
49:36 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And you could all talk man, how about a movie?
49:38 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how about taking your lady, your special lady to a movie theater.
49:43 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if you know that your skin's about to fall off, but it won't fall off at night.
49:47 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Just switch your when your fake doctor appointments are.
49:54 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_02]: The movie's called Dark Man, and the only time he's in the dark is when his face is off.
50:02 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty pretty great.
50:04 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty great.
50:04 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I like it.
50:05 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_02]: That's quite the twist right the twist on dark man Is that he doesn't do anything in the dark Honestly, I thought it's like she didn't lose list like he just had charts instead All right, see that coming
50:26 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought at some point the next level of his skin, you know, because he's the master of disguise, right?
50:32 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought like, okay, this skin is eventually going to make him invisible.
50:40 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's like, literally in the dark, he could just be invisible or something like that.
50:46 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I kept him waiting for that to happen.
50:47 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But I
50:49 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't hate the, I don't hate the, the movie ended the way I did.
50:53 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I did like that when his skin was sort of like timing out, it would actually start smoking.
51:00 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, self-destruct.
51:02 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's pretty stable.
51:05 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, he does that thing where he's like making shirts in place or whatever, but you can get kicked in the face while hanging off a helicopter.
51:13 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And that face is going to remain stable for the first 100 minutes.
51:18 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Not bad.
51:20 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like to a certain extent, pretty pretty decent skin technology.
51:27 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I, and I, could you, could you, uh, restart the clock if you ran into the dark for a little bit?
51:34 --> 51:35 [SPEAKER_02]: We, uh, why not do that?
51:36 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Have you interesting, Ryan?
51:36 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_02]: He has quickly has to get into a dark place and then like you have to sort of like to recharge it.
51:42 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, okay, if I'm in there, you know, if we know that every 30 seconds of dark is me, you know, a minute of, you know,
51:49 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_02]: and issues or whatever.
51:50 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to recharge, I don't know, again, there was a part of this movie that, I mean, I thought was kind of brilliant.
51:57 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I did like the idea that initially, you know, because it's superpowers, Master of Disguise, that he just kind of like is a master
52:20 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_01]: goes in, gets the money, and basically frames that guy, right?
52:26 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, he's just pulling a sting.
52:29 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was really good, and I like when they came to the room to confront him.
52:36 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He's earnestly saying, look, I just overslept, man.
52:39 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I never made the pick up, and then he looks down and says, I don't even know how I got dressed.
52:44 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
52:46 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So good.
52:51 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_02]: the the the kill with the uh we at the manhole poppin his head up that was that that was very uh Sam Remy for sure y'all yeah that was so it's bouncing up and down i'd love that sequence Steve is this movie better worse around part of the ron Howard this I feel like we're kind of in this is the same kind of thing we do with like carpenter and stuff it's like this is so Sam Remy
53:20 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Howard adjacent.
53:21 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it has to be Howard adjacent because Howard will make a Howard could make a good version of this, but it's not this and it absolutely has to be this.
53:35 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so yeah Howard Howard adjacent.
53:37 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if you were going to give me the option, this is not quite answering the question, but if you were going to give me the option of whether I would rather watch a garden variety Howard movie, I'm a garden variety, rainy movie.
53:50 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I would probably choose Howard.
53:52 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to say this is a Howard.
53:55 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're going to watch dark man by one of these two,
54:02 --> 54:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
54:03 --> 54:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of like to see Howard's version of this.
54:07 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I could I could see why he's the right person to make this and, you know, he's the writer director and this is his vision.
54:13 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:13 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:15 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but because I have a more affinity for Ron Howard, I'm just going to say this is a Ron Howard minus one.
54:23 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to say Howard adjacent.
54:24 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
54:25 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
54:25 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_00]: what's next?
54:26 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: What's next on our agenda here?
54:29 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just say so far I'm quite enjoying the newlywed season.
54:34 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah this has been great.
54:35 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean even though I don't you know we didn't necessarily love the running man I think it was to talk about the original and I did run into some people that independent of this podcast said we
54:56 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, watch, we're all the money in the world.
55:00 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_02]: All the money in the hat.
55:01 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it.
55:01 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited about that.
55:03 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I have, I don't even, I never even heard of this movie.
55:06 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, neither did I. Um, I think that we're going to have a casting conversation about that movie too.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:14 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I really do enjoy the movie.
55:16 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_01]: As you know, I do like movies based on a true story.
55:19 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need them to be exactly, you know, historically accurate for me to enjoy them.
55:24 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just one really odd casting choice, and otherwise very entertaining movie.
55:30 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think, uh, I think you might like this.
55:33 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not, I don't think this is the kind of movie that you might settle down to with seven dogs in your life at the end of the evening.
55:42 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, I'm curious to see what you think about it.
55:45 --> 55:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm okay, I'm of course this is, uh, this is what we do.
55:49 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a half the battle one to grown moment in this film?
55:54 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_02]: need more OSHA investigations into labs.
56:01 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_02]: These these scientists are up to no good.
56:05 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just hazards, man, hazards, scant PPE.
56:09 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_02]: You've got things that if you just touch and will burn your hands on the inside out, somehow, uh, yeah, make make America healthy again.
56:18 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, I like how it's cat like,
56:24 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_02]: They use the cat to kind of show that like, oh, he's unrecognizable.
56:27 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what if you have cats?
56:28 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, cat was gonna attack him anyway.
56:34 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I look, look, that's the only way to deal with the cat.
56:37 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have a cat like that, put a funnel on your head and dance around like a monkey.
56:44 --> 56:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
56:45 --> 56:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what that cat does.
56:54 --> 56:56 [UNKNOWN]: Thanks for watching!
57:51 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Poorchap out.