Steve and Anthony fight to the death over the Hedge Knight.
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00:19 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Properly Howard fans, Steve and I are having a rare first conversation about night of the seven kingdoms, I was kind of surprised by his reaction.
00:28 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_02]: After that, we do let's hear feedback as always you can send emails to cocoons of horror at gmail.com.
00:37 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Here is my friend and yours, Steve Osburn, Steve, in the city of Dayton, you generally
00:50 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little surprising, but why is that?
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know how much else you got to do.
01:03 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of funny.
01:03 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's in a show that was clearly nodding towards someone's specific cake that I would consider unsavory.
01:21 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I was talking with a few folks in my fantasy league last night.
01:26 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And I went around and asked like, you know, how many of you were actually offended by the diary to tell you?
01:34 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And it turns out that, you know, most were not, but those who were were just grossed out by it.
01:42 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_02]: When someone's gotten sick, it's like, there's no, there's no accounting for it.
01:51 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, and I'd be a neck, right?
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I love vomit.
01:54 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it's the funniest thing.
01:55 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate to vomit, but I love to watch of vomit videos.
02:01 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You like to watch vomit videos.
02:05 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
02:05 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, see, my IG algorithm will confirm.
02:09 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_02]: How many vomit?
02:11 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_02]: How many vomit do you think you watch today?
02:14 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, some days I don't actually get onto the old IG,
02:19 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I'm on there, at least five.
02:24 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_02]: At least five, vomit today.
02:26 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
02:29 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And you find poop funny.
02:31 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_02]: You, in fact, you enjoy talking about poop.
02:35 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, sure.
02:36 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's weird if you don't.
02:38 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like poop is one of the few things that we have as a species that unifies us.
02:45 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's the problem.
02:47 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we're trying to heal America starting with some really crucial divides, race, gender, religion.
02:57 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_02]: These are things that are not helping us.
02:59 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to find something that brings us all together.
03:02 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if you go into the store, I mean, look, there's lots of aisles.
03:07 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's aisles I never go down.
03:10 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But there are aisles that everyone goes down at one point.
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the toilet paper aisle.
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the toilet paper aisle.
03:17 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_01]: You may not go down to the baking section because you're not a baker.
03:21 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you don't go to the vitamins because you're not a vitamin taker.
03:27 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But you're a wiper.
03:30 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It should be.
03:35 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, poof smells bad, right?
03:37 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: poop smells really bad and a couple of days ago I had a poop that reminded me of an outhouse that I used to go to at a car.
03:45 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I just felt like that's, if you smell like outhouse and you're not near an outhouse, that is not a good sign.
03:53 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I said, normally I can handle my own brand, but like there are those days like man, I smell like a gas station bathroom right now.
04:00 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got to get out of here.
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think?
04:07 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't talked to it.
04:08 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think about the first episode of nine, seven teams?
04:13 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if I didn't read the novella and I didn't have a podcast, I don't know if I'd watch the second one.
04:21 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Really, you were not invested in any of these characters.
04:26 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
04:28 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, I was not expecting this.
04:31 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Go on.
04:37 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's the game of thrones backdrop, right?
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: You get the music, you got all that.
04:45 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So it does feel a little, it feels like I'm going to watch a whole series that's dornish.
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.
04:54 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, a little up with peopleish.
04:56 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a little like the performances feel a little goofballish.
05:03 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess if I was going to put this into like Star Wars, like, okay, if the game of thrones is your Star Wars, you know, sort of movies.
05:12 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
05:13 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_01]: House of the Dragon probably is your Andor, and this is probably your, uh, the Boba Fett story thing.
05:21 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
05:22 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I couldn't disagree more, but I could totally get the tone shift is not going to work for everybody.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not even just the two of you have to work with everybody.
05:33 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, I mean, the tone shift is fine.
05:35 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that the tone had to be different just based on the source material.
05:40 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we talked about that in terms of like my expectation going in, because I hadn't read other Martin works, but I understood the gravity and the complexity and sort of the, the dauerness that sort of built in.
05:59 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And this didn't have that, so I was, I knew it was going to be a different vibe on screen.
06:06 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But it just felt like a ren fair and I'm not a big ren fair fan.
06:16 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, okay, I mean, this is all, it's all interesting.
06:19 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_02]: So the characters that they chose to cast.
06:22 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_02]: These are characters that you met first on the page and now you're seeing them on the screen.
06:26 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You liked the characters on the page.
06:30 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like the characters have a miscast?
06:34 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, I don't know if they're miscast.
06:36 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like maybe the presentation feels a little, feel like I'm watching the puppet show that's in the show.
06:46 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything feels a little exaggerated the talking to the horses doesn't ring super true to me.
06:57 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I understand it's trying to maybe convey a certain simplicity to dunk.
07:02 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_02]: You are a person who talks to animals constantly.
07:07 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I tell them that they're you talk, you talked, no, no, no, maybe you don't know how much you talked to animals.
07:15 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_02]: You talked to your dogs all of the time.
07:19 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_02]: You talked to your dogs when there are people in the room.
07:22 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_02]: When we are in New York City, you talk to a rat.
07:25 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, sure.
07:27 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was talking to it, right?
07:28 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't.
07:28 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You tell me if you had three horses, you was talking to a person.
07:32 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I'm on, if I'm alone on the road, sure.
07:34 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I
07:38 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: just didn't feel, it felt like, oh, I need, we need to take the words on the page and get them out there somehow.
07:47 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you just talking to the horse about it.
07:52 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, for me, the horse, talking the horse is really worked well because you get the sense that this guy needs someone to talk
08:05 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_02]: He was on the road with Arlin for years and years.
08:08 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_02]: He might have done all of the talking with Arlin.
08:12 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And now that Arlin's gone, he still got to have someone to talk to.
08:15 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Might as well talk to these horses.
08:18 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And for me, this sort of conveys something crucial about his personality that this is a guy who needs a friend.
08:24 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not a guy who's sort of insular.
08:27 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not going to keep his own counsel.
08:30 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And if that's the case, you could really help them out by adding the square to this equation.
08:36 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_02]: This guy's lonely.
08:38 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He needs a friend.
08:39 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we could solve this guy's problem with the right square.
08:44 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and I don't, I mean, I guess it's, let me rephrase it.
08:48 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, talking to the horses to move the
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: into convey that message is fine.
08:53 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just didn't buy it.
08:55 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't, I don't feel like it was presented in a way that felt anywhere near as authentic as any of the previous game of Throne's experiences I've had.
09:08 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you have liked it better if Dunk was wearing a penguinsk fat suit?
09:20 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing, if he was wearing a fat suit and it was a good looking fat suit, that's fine, it's the performance.
09:27 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no question if we're going to sit there and put Colin Ferrell's performance up against this one.
09:32 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this podcast won't go very long.
09:35 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I would much prefer this guy.
09:37 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think this guy's amazing.
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's doing amazing work with his eyes.
09:42 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, even if he doesn't have a line, he conveys
09:51 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I this feels like they should be breaking out and song.
09:54 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say I was feeling a little bit like part of my enjoyment with this was thinking this is a little bit Monty Python and I wouldn't mind if they broke out and song a little bit here like I wouldn't mind up a life of Brian ask Always look on the bright set of life.
10:12 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean that to me that's kind of what the whistling conveyed
10:17 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I love all the musical choices.
10:20 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels a little bit like I'm watching Sam Tarley on his way up to the wall, you know?
10:27 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: If you sure.
10:28 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: If Sam was on his way up to the wall and Sam was getting into adventures, that's kinda what I'm watching.
10:34 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I will allow that and I will accept that.
10:39 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: The difference I would say is, that would be a nice little break from all the other stuff but if this is all the stuff,
10:47 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I mean, because I guess my thing is is that like, I didn't feel like it was all of any one thing, right?
10:55 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's either, it's like, okay, it's a little goosey like you say there's some money Pythonish moments, but then at the time to try to add a little heft and you're like, okay, that's fine, too.
11:04 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But I just feel like I'm getting, I got a lot of ingredients, but I'm not sure that it's balanced.
11:11 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of this you thinking, all right, I've read the story.
11:18 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And I liked that, and this, this is not helping me.
11:22 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not enhancing my enjoyment of this.
11:26 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: This is like, Heather, Heather hated it, okay.
11:32 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So she was like, I'm watching this because I want to listen to your guys' podcast.
11:38 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_01]: She was, she only liked it when Egg shows up.
11:42 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting, Egg was the one thing I was a little bit skeptical about.
11:47 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_01]: is the rise in tide and so I do feel like they're I have hope because of it like that last sequence I would say I enjoyed I would yeah I'd say more than quite a bit yeah I like I like the last sequence until then I thought I don't know if this it takes a lot for me to get on board with the child actor and I was thinking I'm not sure this is going to do it for me yes and I guess maybe I don't like adults
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about that last scene.
12:15 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't like adults.
12:17 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the last scene.
12:18 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you like about it?
12:19 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I did, first off, I do think it's visually a stunning show.
12:25 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's gorgeous.
12:26 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe almost too clean for the time frame.
12:31 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like every, there is a certain pristine quality that might undo some of the, that might also be taking me out a little bit.
12:41 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: because even when he's having explosive diarrhea, he's like, he's still pretty clean about it, you know.
12:45 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is a cleanliness to him as a hedge knight and to everything that kind of he has, at least it presents that might be taking, might also be adding to my issues, is like, it doesn't feel as grounded.
13:03 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not what we're talking about.
13:05 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So the last sequence is really wonderfully shot.
13:09 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd really like the side by side.
13:11 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like the visual juxtaposition of the two is really nice to see, because it's like you read it.
13:17 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like so much more interesting when you see this bald child, this is massive, man.
13:23 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And the back and forth when he was about the shooting star, and the luck that it brings and his
13:31 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: initial thought like he just is so into like whatever this guy's whatever this kid's talking about is just it's just childish nonsense you know and to be an adult is to basically tell children to just speak you know only a spoken to but then realizing that egg is dropping some knowledge and some wisdom and he has like that moment of clarity it's a great it's a great moment where
13:55 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_01]: He has that recognition that like, oh, wait a minute, are you saying that that's for ours alone or you know, are like a loan like that's great to me that did more to give me insight into how dunks mind works of the certain naive quality, but also these sort of pose
14:23 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_01]: in the previous scenes and then eggs little little grain of satisfaction was pretty wonderful.
14:31 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_02]: That was good.
14:32 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_02]: He's come to the realization.
14:34 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a beat too late that, oh my gosh, like this isn't some kid that I'm going to have to discipline all the time.
14:42 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I may have to listen to what he says.
14:45 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially because the idea being like, I haven't disciplined him once.
14:50 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been
14:54 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what he's used to, right?
14:56 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He's used to being disciplined.
14:57 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And he may not have ever even fully understand or understood why he was being punished as often as he was.
15:03 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He just knows that the role of a night and squire is to, you know, glean wisdom in this case, maybe not actually glean it, but just sort of think you've gleaned it because you're just basically aping the behavior.
15:19 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's sort of passing that on.
15:20 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So all of that, and then this is all stuff that I, you know, understand because of the reading, but I do believe that that last sequence and any sequence really with Aegan and Doug really helps put dunk in a better perspective.
15:33 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it really, uh, that gave me a lot of hope at the end.
15:38 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I mean, I might just be so you can prove your pro egg.
15:43 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like pretty pro egg.
15:45 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm actually done, huh?
15:47 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
15:48 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here I put it this way.
15:49 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pro dunk and egg and I think I think again that egg is going to help me with with my dunk problem.
15:58 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you're hoping for more of a Keesh going on here.
16:03 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we'll all we've all we've seen so far as a little bit of cheese.
16:08 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this is not a Keesh, my friend, until you have the egg.
16:12 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we'll say on the second viewing.
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: wasn't like fully locked in.
16:16 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of like multitasking, but I had it going on and had it as my primary audio.
16:23 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I did warm up to because I knew it to expect now, right?
16:26 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So I warmed up to to sort of the vibe.
16:30 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_01]: There were still some issues that I just found a little cringy.
16:33 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, brought me into those door-nish moments.
16:36 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's some of the acting choice to some of the
16:39 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: the way the lines are delivered are so like well Sarah said she said it was the the dialogue was a little clunky time now this is Sarah's very first entry point into world advice and fire okay first time she sat down and watched any any game of thrones property with me at all wow and afterwards I got the vibe that it was sort of like
17:08 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's cute that you have a hobby.
17:14 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was, it was done.
17:17 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not all that I was expecting.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually quite enjoyed it.
17:21 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_02]: She said it has potential.
17:23 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it very well could be that maybe, maybe she and you should be doing the podcast right now.
17:31 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be amazing.
17:33 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Just talking about, we were just talking about your hobby at this point.
17:37 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought that was, yeah, she said that the dialogue was a little clunky.
17:44 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: She said, now this is when I really sort of figured out what she thought.
17:49 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_02]: She said, I like to the horses.
17:53 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.
17:57 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Like she was, she was trying just to find anything.
18:00 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, you could tell me what you think.
18:02 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to hurt my feelings.
18:04 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And she was going to be like, are you sure I'm not going to hurt your feelings?
18:07 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm going to hurt your feelings a little bit.
18:10 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And then by finding the one thing she liked actually was probably the meanest thing she could have said about your hobby.
18:17 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: She, um, it was like, I drew a picture with crayons and she said, oh, I really like the sun, yeah, or no, like the nice paper choice.
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I love the colors each has now.
18:32 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like when when you get done doing a set and you get off stage and some of the goes, man, you're brave.
18:40 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You look like you're having a lot of fun.
18:42 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, that's that.
18:43 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that one's a good one too.
18:45 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I want to talk about the sex workers.
18:47 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I love the sex workers.
18:48 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought they were great.
18:49 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_02]: They were in adventures.
18:51 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I wish this was the first time you've ever said this, but yeah, this is the first time I actually looked at there is such a occupation.
18:59 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea.
19:03 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought them adding those two characters who
19:09 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it worked really well to bring them in either for exposition or just sort of just a little bit of levity, for me, those two characters worked really well.
19:19 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_02]: You brought them in twice and I thought I learned something more about Duncan both conversations.
19:26 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was, I was pretty pleased with that show only addition.
19:33 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
19:40 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It adds a little more texture to the the tournament because the I think the novels doesn't necessarily we see we we get a lot of the Descripted of what the visuals of the tournament in the arena and all that stuff there, but maybe not necessarily the inner workings and and so this feels like a logical addition, but it's a really good way to again,
20:06 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: develop the characters, move the story along, give us some of the insights that you wouldn't get if you were, you know, there's someone needs to sort of say some of these things, right?
20:17 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And they are because there is a more approachable quality to them.
20:25 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You can have an interaction for dunk that
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: that helps him where he's at.
20:31 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, like he could be less pozerish if he has to, right?
20:33 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get it.
20:34 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We can get a little, he's pretending to be a knight, right?
20:38 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
20:38 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a knight.
20:39 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And if he's a knight, he is far and above in terms of social station, he's higher than these two sex workers.
20:49 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but then he allows them to kind of show like his feelings or hurt, essentially, when they're sort of Yeah, they're able to hurt his feelings, right?
20:56 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's sort of like it kind of reveals like, I don't know if you're ready for this, right?
21:07 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
21:07 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So the other show only flourish that was notable.
21:10 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there was a few things, but Was the addition of Lionel Dora.
21:16 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... would you think about mister uh... smiley dancy guy yeah well my lead antsy horny guy yeah he's he certainly is all of those things in a uh... yeah he was a little muppetish but uh... uh... second watch i enjoyed it a little more i mean they'd definitely through a moments where i was feeling like uh... you know some of those bizarre scenes in uh... x-mock and i want to ask her eyes actually dance and
21:47 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I was getting those vibes.
21:49 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, that's a great scene.
21:52 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it took me a while to warm up.
21:54 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, is this working?
21:56 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if this is working for me.
22:00 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But by the time he's totally drunk and and dunk is just inexplicably wearing his crown and sort of droning on about his exploits on the sea.
22:14 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I, I was in.
22:15 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought this is, this is working well.
22:17 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the way that that conversation ends with like, well, what chance do I have?
22:22 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_02]: You've no chance.
22:24 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_02]: What am I supposed to do if I lose my horse?
22:27 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to even be able to ramp some on back.
22:29 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And he just laughs like, yeah, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard a night without a horse.
22:37 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't help you, man.
22:40 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's nothing I can do to help you and that for me that was like, okay, this is that there's still some game of thrones characters in this world.
22:51 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no for sure.
22:52 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I and so I did like I yeah, it it's a slow burn for me again, the second watch helped again because I had the new what I was getting.
23:02 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I said you had a bumpy on ramp sounds like you had a bumpy on ramp but by the end of the show you were like oh what oh watch I'll keep watch I'm a I'm aware that there's probably going to be some turbulence on this flight and as long as I get to the destination I think I'll be okay all right as long as the drink cart comes out soon we've got some listener feedback and I'm going to
23:32 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, this is a podcast.
23:35 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:36 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's good to remember up mind ourselves that everyone's in a while.
23:38 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: This is from Abby.
23:41 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Not only considering the flashback scene, not only wasn't dunk knighted.
23:44 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't even an intention to knight him.
23:48 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty clear that dunk just makes it up as he's going along kind of adorable.
23:54 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is kind of some of the conclusion that we came to when we were reading the short story.
24:01 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that, you know, dunk is he's he's he's putting this on.
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's making it up.
24:07 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not been dubbed, but, uh, he figures why not?
24:12 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Why not me?
24:13 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of kind of haven't been watching a night, right, rather than the kingdom.
24:17 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_02]: For a few years now, I think I know what I'm doing.
24:21 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the other thing is what other option do I have?
24:25 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that was one of
24:29 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Why it's important that he enters this tournament?
24:31 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why it's at a big deal.
24:34 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And the way I explained it was, well, the only life he knows is as a squire.
24:40 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And now that the night is dead, like what are your options?
24:44 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Your de facto, you're not a squire anymore.
24:49 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you've got to decide what's next.
24:52 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: So you go find some other night,
24:57 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You go to King's Landing and implore people not to rape.
25:04 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I think that's the Lionel Baratheon line that I think is really, really helpful is like sort of kind of also falls in line with that to a certain degree, whether it's done because consciously considered it is just like, but I am big and right.
25:20 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And to, if my greatest asset is my size,
25:26 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_01]: probably should find a way to be big and successful about right.
25:31 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what he knows basically.
25:33 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You told.
25:34 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:34 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it would it to not acknowledge it was is was essentially heresy right.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
25:41 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:41 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And she every says is it's adorable.
25:45 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think this is a not the interpretation I've heard more often than not.
25:50 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear people say, well, if his entire persona is built on a lie,
25:56 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_02]: then that changes the way we think about his character.
26:00 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and that's fair because, um, like all the things we just said are the justification for why he would lie, but it does set him up his whole entire path going down.
26:10 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: His is based on just, I'm just going to lie to people to whether it's survival or even just to get what I want.
26:20 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, this is from Sub-Zero, and I remember Sub-Zero because Sub-Zero is a regular on our properly-powered discord, here's what Sub-Zero says, just watch the episode, I loved it, however.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_02]: The shooting scene at the beginning almost made me turn it off.
26:39 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_02]: 100% unnecessary.
26:41 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I absolutely detest gross out humor.
26:45 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want or need
26:47 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_02]: to see actual poop on screen.
26:49 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be just fine pretending that my TV movie characters never had to poop.
26:55 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm going to actively defend the poop and in so doing actively betray my critique.
27:06 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see, I cannot wait.
27:08 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a game of thrones, watch your,
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_01]: in many of these cases, right?
27:12 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I would imagine there are people that are willing to give it a shot without any game of thrones knowledge.
27:16 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like serenine for horses.
27:18 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but I would say that a good chunk are people that are on the game of thrones journey.
27:24 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the show runners make a really conscious choice here.
27:30 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The game of thrones music comes comes racing in.
27:34 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's giving everybody, let's go on our game of thrones journey.
27:37 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_02]: It's swelling up, you do that familiar jolly score.
27:41 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You see the hero shot of dunk cut.
27:44 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it is the record scratches into a gross out humor.
27:52 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:52 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, that says, this is game of thrones.
27:57 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is different.
27:58 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an abrupt, almost soft moric, if you will,
28:03 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: like you mentioned the Monty Python, the Mel Brooksian, not to say that this is going to be just a slapstick journey, but this is going to be lighter.
28:13 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to have these types of moments of levity more so than more than just probably breaking the tension, but this might just be the journey you're on.
28:29 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and I got it the first time, like I didn't really make that connection the first time watching the second time really what I'm like, okay, I feel like this is a tone set or on purpose, because they play with the music intentionally, they, I mean, you know, I mean, like, that is that this feels like, hey, we're kind of making a comedy here.
28:47 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
28:47 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I totally get it.
28:50 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Sub zero.
28:52 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_02]: If poop humor just doesn't do it for you.
28:55 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Like,
28:58 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: who just, they don't ever find poop humor funny.
29:03 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there are people like Steve, who find a funny almost all of the time.
29:07 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I laughed out loud and I said, this is awesome.
29:10 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was, I was so, so I guess maybe I was getting disappointed as there was like, well, no more poop.
29:19 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_02]: You were wondering why there wasn't more poop.
29:23 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't, you can't tease me like that, man.
29:26 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You're so close.
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Zadiochi.
29:31 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_02]: We can defend that scene because it takes place right after the game of Thrones theme song to kind of let you know that this is a different kind of story.
29:39 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: The more I think about the more I like that scene.
29:41 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So very, very similar to the point that you're making there.
29:46 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
29:47 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Elon says the poop was a thesis statement given in that it interrupted the game of the runes theme.
29:54 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Humor was a secondary aspect, not absolutely necessary, but not 100% unnecessary.
30:01 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I agree with both of those.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_02]: We have a voice note.
30:09 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_02]: from David from the Lawrence.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: A David here.
30:13 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to encourage everyone to take advantage of sending in voicemails for feedback.
30:20 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just recording this in the voicemail app on my phone and then I'm just going to share it by email to smallcountleethelwarehounds.com where Nancy will catch it and then it will get integrated into the feedback.
30:32 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Our coverage for the show is always more enriching when we have
30:40 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, Anthony made a comment about knighthood and the comment he made was about we're going to probably be hearing from other people and other voices about what is knighthood, what is a knight.
30:55 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is a really interesting idea, I'm actually really intrigued to see if they go deeper with that in the show.
31:01 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously the show can be multilayered and we have sort of the lone wolf and cub buddy cop Dynamic but if one of the deeper meditations of the show is What is a night and how does a night operate and what do different people think about what a night is?
31:17 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really interesting to me, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the show explore those ideas.
31:24 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we have any kind of analogy in our modern world for somebody who is a night?
31:31 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Dr. Shin.
31:33 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So the comment that I made was, I was specifically thinking about what Daisy says.
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Daisy is one of the sex workers.
31:42 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And she says, it puts its body in jeopardy or at hazard for the pleasure of others.
31:50 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And then Bione says, well, I thought that's what we do.
31:53 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_02]: In other words, they're saying, there's an analogy to be drawn between being a knight and being a whore.
31:59 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought, okay, this is interesting.
32:01 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting a commentary on knighthood from an unlikely voice.
32:06 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And in this case, it's not a very positive view on nighthood.
32:11 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And Dunk is offended by it.
32:14 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought this is kind of an interesting way into the exploration of what it means to be a night.
32:21 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you might hear different voices over the course of this season, maybe with a slightly different perspective on what it means.
32:29 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, thoughts on who are the modern day nights, Steve?
32:37 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: were they speaking about nights in relation to the tournament, specifically, or are they?
32:44 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's their perspective.
32:46 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they probably have a unique perspective on what these nights do at tournaments.
32:52 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_02]: They probably don't know what these nights do in battle or what they do along the road or in the hedges or whatever.
32:58 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Their perspective on adulthood is what happens at a tournament, right?
33:07 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my first thought is when just because of the tournament style, you start thinking of the professional athlete who's maybe short, you know, shortening their, either their entire life span or their quality of life for, you know, for fame and for money, you know,
33:38 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And NFL player probably retires in their 30s.
33:43 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And they may have problems walking and thinking for as long as they live.
33:50 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And they may have problems with anger.
33:51 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_02]: They might concussion symptoms, which absolutely nights are going to suffer in all kinds of ways.
33:59 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Concussion can just completely mess up your brains, in a lot of ways.
34:08 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_02]: can make you violent, right?
34:09 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, that would be an analogy for sure.
34:14 --> 34:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and what is it for, right?
34:16 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like at the end of the day, what is it, it's entertainment, right?
34:20 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have, you may get trophies and all that stuff, but again, what are they?
34:24 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_02]: You get to do what you love.
34:27 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know if all these guys, I mean, me, some of these guys are just, they're big in their fast and they get encouraged.
34:34 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: People, people clap when they do these things.
34:38 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't know.
34:40 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if every NFL player loves playing in the NFL.
34:43 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, you could see reasons why.
34:45 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm willing to take the risk to continue doing what I love a little bit longer.
34:51 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_02]: The question is, should it be legal?
34:53 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a society as a whole, say, yeah, well, you're 19 years old.
34:59 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, your brain isn't even fully developed.
35:02 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's let develop a little bit more before we scramble it for you.
35:07 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Are these young men capable of making life decisions like that, or should society step in and say, maybe this isn't the best idea for you.
35:19 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, because what it is is like, hey, because you do this, there is a monetary gain to be had because of all these other industries that are profiting off of it, and so without you, we can't do it, but also without you, we can do it because we're going to draft another younger one.
35:37 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to burn you out like a light bulb and then screw up someone else.
35:42 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so that would be sort of the tournament aspect of this modern day nights.
35:47 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I once asked a medievalist like should I think about nights like more like, um, like soldiers who are like leading, leading battalions in a battle or more often than not, or they like patrolmen, or out on the highways and just, you know, look at looking for someone who might be, you know, looking for the odd bandit.
36:09 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Carol Parrish, Jamison, was the person I was talking to.
36:12 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_02]: She said, probably most often like the patrolman, that's kind of the image we get.
36:18 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: They're more like a patrolman who sometimes they get, they get put in service to a great battle or something like that.
36:25 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's not what their life is mostly like.
36:29 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that it's interesting to draw connection between, like all the cynical comments that Martin has to say
36:39 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that good dirty cop film would probably ask about, you know, are these, are these really good guys?
36:47 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean?
36:48 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean to try to be a good guy?
36:50 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_02]: If this is what the world is like, have you seen a, have you seen the rip yet with a him in that demon and been afloat?
37:00 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I've, it's been recommended by several different people though.
37:03 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, well, now it's built up.
37:05 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I, I had fun with it.
37:09 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get the recommendations didn't seem to be like, hey guys, this is a, this is a game changer and I recommend it because you like a good dirty cop.
37:19 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I do.
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:21 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
37:23 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me see here.
37:24 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I have an iTunes review I wanted to read because that's what we do on this podcast.
37:33 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful and delightful.
37:35 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: about broke my mind trying to find this podcast through the rabbit hole.
37:40 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been to chat GBT telling that know you're wrong dumb robot.
37:45 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_02]: There's some kind of cocoon podcast.
37:47 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Alas, I'm here.
37:51 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_02]: My guys, give me everything you've done and help us find you.
37:55 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that iTunes review.
37:59 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_02]: This is from any name we'll do, let me post.
38:05 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is our main podcast.
38:09 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_02]: If you stick around after the show's over, you'll hear Steven and I cover films.
38:14 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll do a little movie draft, and we'll figure out which films to cover, and we'll do probably a 10 episode season, and then you might not hear from us for many months at a time.
38:27 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And usually, you know, new listeners will go listen to the archive at that point.
38:32 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Just find bias.
38:35 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We've made it really hard to find us.
38:37 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a jet GPT, if SkyNet can't find us, I don't know if you're working healthy.
38:44 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_02]: No, we're trying to keep this podcast under wraps.
38:48 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're trying to like no breadcrumbs, so if you made it here, enjoy the fruit of your labor, you might never find a secret.
40:03 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on, and a cocoon of horror.