Severance - S02E01 - Hello, Ms. Cobel

[00:00:08] Don't pervert a handbook passage to me, okay? Welcome to a Lorehounds and Properly Howard joint production covering Severance on Apple TV Plus, Season 2, Episode 1, Hello Ms. Cobel. With me today, he's a big fan of fruit leather and pineapple bobbing, David. Hello. He's in a thruple with his Audi, Steve. Indeed I am. Steve's my Audi. And he's your favorite perk, Anthony.

[00:00:37] I'm also a frolicaholic. Wrathfully, David, can you do some quick housekeeping before we head into our hot takes? It's very shambolic around here, so let me get through this really quick. This is going to be the last episode on the main Lorehounds and Properly Howard feeds. After this, it's only going to be in our Severance feed. So if you're a Patreon or Supercast subscriber, you'll get those anyway on your feed, so you don't have to do anything.

[00:01:07] You get the privilege of just riding easy, everybody else. Go down to the link in the show notes and click in the link tree, and there'll be a link to the feed directly there. You can get ad-free versions of this podcast without a subscription by spending five bucks on a season pass. That's also linked in the show notes. We're planning a couple of bonus episodes with some deeper dives and some of the themes and talking to some other people.

[00:01:35] And so season pass and regular subscribers will get access to those. David, I have a question about the season pass. Please. If I sign up for the season pass, will I be put onto some subscription that's going to renew my fee every year or something like that? It is a single purchase. Five bucks and you're done. You get a private feed that you put into your podcast player, and you get all of the season one coverage that you and Steve did, all ad-free.

[00:02:05] You get all season two access, ad-free, and then whatever bonus episodes that we cook up between now and the end of the season. You know, previously I thought you were a shambolic rube, but now I'm reconsidering. I'm a tall milkshake. After the Patreon uprising, we here at Lorehound Industries decided to take a look at reform. That's right. We also have a community discord.

[00:02:32] There is a lot of fun conversation happening there. We will have individual channels for every episode. So if you're watching at a different pace, you can come in and have conversations there without worrying about getting spoiled. As well, we have a theory crafting corner on that conversation, which Alicia came up for the name with today, which is great.

[00:02:57] And it is the Macro Data Theory Refinement Channel. And so if you have big theories or big clues that span both seasons, you can go there and share. You could wager some internet points, try to win yourself a waffle party at the end of the season. And so join us there. Again, link in the show notes. And lastly, feedback.

[00:03:23] Send your feedback to severance at thelorehounds.com. Nancy is our assistant floor manager, and she will be coordinating all of those. Depending on volume and scheduling, we may combine those. We may do a spinoff. We may tack them on the end. We just have to kind of see how the volume goes. All right. I think that is it for the housekeeping. All right. Great. So I think we're ready to roll right into hot takes, but I just need to play this reminder here.

[00:03:52] Please try to enjoy each hot take equally and not show preference for any above the others. Alicia. What are you talking about? That was Miss Casey. That wasn't Alicia. I asked her to do that this morning, and she thankfully... Do you mind if I start with a question for each of you? Sure. All right. So we know Steve has spent a lot of his life in and out of offices.

[00:04:17] Do you each have an office in the real world outside of, you know, in your indie persona? Yeah. You have a cubicle. I do. What about you, David? I currently do not. I have occupied cubicles in my past. All right. So we've all been in office settings, right? Yes. Have you ever sprinted down the hallway in an office setting? Hmm. No. No, it tickles the building.

[00:04:48] Steve, have you ever sprinted down an office hallway? Probably. I mean, to me, the way that this episode opens with just a full-on sprint in that space, it just seems like the world's ending. I mean, it just seems like there's chaos happening.

[00:05:15] One of the places I worked at, they would do this annual Food Around the World or Foods Around the World Day where all the different, you know, people would bring foods from their cultures and they would have this big celebration. And you could go from, like, you know, like table to table and try everything. So those days there was a little bit more sprinting. To the bathroom? Yes. Yeah. All right.

[00:05:42] I saw people commenting on Reddit and TikTok about Severance. They said, if I were an indie, I wouldn't wipe. I'd punish my Audi like that. Oh, boy. Here we go. All right. Sorry to hijack that, John. No, no. But as your punishment in the break room, you've got to start off with your hot take. Hot take. First time in movie. First time in film history. Screen history.

[00:06:12] That we saw a double Zolly camera. Yes. We've seen it a lot. You know, post-Jaws. We've seen the zoom in on the dolly while the camera widens the lens, right? And that kind of creates the face distortion inside the elevator. Mm-hmm. All right. So Ben Stiller is calling this the Zolly move because it's a zoom and dolly move.

[00:06:42] With Mark, we don't see any Audi. We don't see any Audi scenes this episode. And so all we see is an indie perspective. And so he does a double face distortion scene. Has that ever been done before? I don't think so. I think this is the first time we've ever seen on screen a double Zolly. That's pretty exciting.

[00:07:10] I didn't have that on my 2025 bingo card, as I can say. I actually posted a YouTube video into our general chat for Severance. They talked to the cinematographer on this and she explains the machine. It's got like a laser beam and computer controlled. It's a pretty sophisticated piece of equipment, actually, to do a very time-tested technique of moving the camera while you're racking the zoom at the same time. Nice. Nice. Very cool.

[00:07:38] Anthony, do you have any other hot take thoughts? We also find out that these employees at Lumen are severed on multiple levels. We have this confirmed because Irv, on some subconscious level, knows about the hallway that leads to the testing floor, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:08:07] But his any does not know that information. Right. Right. So, confirmed, we have severance within severance happening on this show. I think Ms. Cobel mentioned the testing floor at one point. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, this is news to Irv. Irv was not aware.

[00:08:31] In fact, I don't think any of the employees are aware of the testing floor besides Milchak at this point. And of course, Ms. Casey, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have plenty of theories about what they could be testing after this episode, but we'll get to that later. I think I'm going to go to David next because you've already jumped in on the Zolly talk. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:56] I think my overall take on the episode is that I think it was a perfect episode one for season two coming back after three years. They nailed it. They nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. The frenetic energy of the running through the hallways and then stepping back down into the normal pacing of the office, of the severed floor. Or this sort of little fake out with the new team.

[00:09:26] Oh, we're going to get a whole new cast of characters, which is sort of a season two thing. But no, we get our main team back, which is great. And I have some questions about why is Mark so important that they give him his team back. But that's for the theorycrafting part later at the end of the episode. I thought it was a really smart decision to do an only severed floor episode this time. It changed the narrative frame. And again, I just think these are all really, really smart showrunner decisions.

[00:09:56] And the editing on the running scene was incredible. The needle drops. The new actors are all amazing. And as some folks know, in our Lorehounds community, I've got a little bit of an idiosyncratic grading scale for doing my top tens at the end of the year. And on my scale, it goes one to ten. And I can give an 11 to something that's groundbreaking. And that changes the industry. That changes the state of television.

[00:10:26] And I think just based on this one episode, this show is probably going to be an 11. Double Zolly shots included. So I loved everything about this episode. I was completely brought back into the world. Enraptured with the new characters. Happy to see the old characters. Loving the new cobalt blue dominant color scheme that's everywhere throughout this episode.

[00:10:56] And I just absolutely think they nailed it. It just hands down, it is some of the best television I think that we're going to have in a... We have a bumper crop of great television coming at us this year. And this is an awesome way to start the 2025. I know Silo bridged the year, but at least for a 2025 start, I think this is awesome. It's just a great way. I'm happy to be a podcaster in this day and age. Yep. Yep.

[00:11:26] Steve, can you give us a more positive take? Well, I'll tell you what. A lot of what was already mentioned was kind of on my list. I mean, I really did... We've talked about before, kind of in the anticipation, how I was kind of nervous. You know, cautiously optimistic. But here we are, you know. And it's like... So I'll be honest. I was more at the edge of my seat right before the show started. Like, here we go.

[00:11:55] What are you going to do to me? And I was hooked right away. I felt like the old feels were back. Like, they... I'm always impressed by how much they do in the amount of time they have. I mean, they're not short shows by any stretch. But it really feels like you've seen a feature-length movie by the time you're done. I mean, like, it really covers... It's so true. ...covers so much ground in a way that doesn't feel like you're losing anything in the expedience of it.

[00:12:24] It's just really something. And I gotta say, Keanu Reeves was born to play a building. Just... Just... Was that the voice of Reeves? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's really funny. Yeah, so... I don't know. Do you think he's gonna... Do you think he's gonna get a nomination? Oscar nomination for that? Or, sorry, an Emmy nomination? I think something's gotta...

[00:12:51] I mean, now, I mean, obviously, there's gotta be an anime. It's an animated spinoff, this whole thing, a Rankin-Bass version. Yeah, so, I mean, it was just... It was impressive. The... Like, the worth the wait, for sure. The... I just really enjoyed the... Just the amplified Milchak. Like, Milchak is always...

[00:13:16] Like, he's at his most sinister when he's at his most friendly. And... Yeah. Um... Just to always see him bubbling on the surface. Just like... Just everything is just restraint with him. Like, what... I mean, he does have a belt coming... Cutting coming to him. But, uh... Uh... You know... I wouldn't... I wouldn't be the one to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Milchak... Milchak is not... Not someone to mess with. Unless you want to just call him Milkshake. Then he... Then I think he can get over it eventually.

[00:13:47] He'll promote you, even if you call him Milkshake. Apparently. Well, for me, I will say I was really nervous to go into this show. It's been... It's been like a couple months since I had like a main show to podcast on. And so I was like, am I too rusty to take on a show of this level of detail? And the minute we watch it, I'm going... Simply shambolic, John. I know. I know. But the minute I watch it, I go, oh gosh, I just...

[00:14:15] My severance chip for my lorehound persona just activated because everything about this makes me ask question after question. I changed my perspective on something and then re-watched the episode. And I saw it in a completely different way. And I think that's a really cool way to watch this show. And even over email, all of us were talking about the Cold Harbor thing that we'll get to. Like there's so many... There's so many, like you said, Anthony, Rorschach tests. Of what are you seeing in this based on your experiences and your knowledge of the world.

[00:14:45] And that's super cool. So anyway, why don't we take a quick break? When we get back, we'll get into the summary of the episode and our full discussion. All right, let's get into our main breakdown of season two, episode one. Hello, Ms. Cobell. Starting off with the new team, Mark S. wakes up at work in a panic only to find wellness cleared out and a new team in his office.

[00:15:15] Mr. Milchick tells him it's been five months since he and the others became the faces of Severance reform, but the rest of his team wouldn't return. The team also meets Miss Huang, the child replacement for Mr. Milchick's position. Mark S. tries to sabotage Mark W. and the rest of his team, but gets caught leading him to plead with the board for his old team and be fired by Milkshake. Mark S. anybody have favorites on the new team?

[00:15:43] Because I've got a, I love Dario R. I think he's perfect. What were your CPR dummies? Brooms. He has a Lumon branded espresso cup. I'm just like, oh, brilliant. The props department on this show is on point. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody else have a favorite? I mean, I'm a huge, I don't even know.

[00:16:13] What was the, what was the woman's name? Gwendolyn Y. Gwendolyn Y. I'm a huge fan of this actor. Alia Shokat. Yeah. Yeah. All the way back to Arrested Development. She was recently on The Old Man. I think she's amazing. I, I'm a little bit disappointed that like, do we think this is the only time we'll ever see these people? I mean, it's possible that we don't see them ever again. Right. It's possible. I have a feeling we will. Yeah.

[00:16:42] I have a feeling we will, but when and how, that's the, to be determined, I think. Bob Balaban did not disappoint. He was. He's just so good. He's just so good. Why are you a child? He's perfect for the show, too. I think that was one of the standout lines of the movie, of the movie, the episode. Sorry. You know, it's funny that we keep on saying movie. It does feel like this is like cinematic. The show.

[00:17:10] So, I mean, throughout this podcast, we'll probably keep making the same mistake. This does not feel like a TV show as so much as it's just a cinematic achievement. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. The, just the, the scale, the scope, the production. It's, it really is. It's, it's some of the best TV I think we're going to have in a, in a while. So, we learn later that, you know, there's two, 206 countries at Lumens in. And these people were transferred from Branch 5X.

[00:17:39] So, were they transferred? Mark W. was at, he said that he was at Branch 5X and he, that he worked with Gwendolyn Y. But he doesn't mention Dario. Okay. Okay. So, they don't, they, and then, yes, then that, that branch was, was shut down. So. But so, were they transferred again after this or did Mark actually kill them? From Dillon's perspective. Because Dillon comforts him later. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:05] Well, the other thing is, is, I mean, how much do we trust of anything that's being told? Nothing. Right? I mean, that's the thing is like, we, we're, we're gleaning this information. Like, we get this paper that has all these redactions, but it's like, I, we don't know that any of that happened. And, um, I mean, there's a whole article about the plastic pileup that they, uh, apparently Lumen has been able to fix. Um, which I want more information about that. Why was that redacted in that, uh, if it's, if it's not real? And.

[00:18:35] I posted a screenshot of that in our discord channel as, as well. It's the Keir Chronicle. Yeah. For sure. Published since 1893. No longer just turning plastic bottles back into plastic bottles. I mean, this is a, this is a pretty big news. And it looks, I was trying to place the photo, uh, in the car that they're driving in. It almost like, looks like a, a Kennedy in Dallas photograph. I don't know.

[00:19:03] I really thought it was interesting what they chose to redact. Right. And again, it's like, is this a real paper? I suspect not. Uh, but there's still redactions. The redactions, maybe they're just for effect to, to, to try to protect them from the outside world, or at least give them the, the illusion. The illusion of that. I thought it was really interesting what they, what they redacted the, um, the performers at the, at the celebration. Uh, that one really got me because it's like, cause we keep asking. You actually read the whole article. Oh yeah. So when, yeah.

[00:19:33] Steve understood the assignment. All right. Let's go. When, uh, you know, because we keep asking ourselves, well, where is this? And maybe, maybe another point is when is this? And, uh, and so there's this sense of like, without those. Performers being mentioned, it's like, is who, where, how, where, like, what does that, what would that break for the innie? If they, if they knew that, that these performers were there or being, they know easels exist, even though they've never seen them.

[00:20:01] So like, who cares if, if another great line was there or not, just, just, just the sheer awe that, that, you know, my, my, my brain remembers easels. I have them in my head, but I've never actually encountered one. Fascinating. By the way, pause in 20 on the discord also said the same thing. I doubt the newspaper article is real. So you're not the only one, Steve doubting the veracity of this thing. Can I just say, you know, I know we're talking about these innies.

[00:20:31] Um, the weirdest thing about this episode is miss Wong. Yes. And I can't get over it. One of the best lines, you know, the exchange between her and, and Balaban. And I just, my, my mind is reeling. I'm thinking, is, is, is she related to miss Casey? Is she related to Mark? Why would Lumen hire a child?

[00:20:59] Is this, uh, is this sort of an adult chip in the body of a child? That's a good question. Is that miss Casey? I, I, yes, I don't know. And all of these things are on the table because that is just bizarre. But of course on another level, you know, it's sort of like running up the old trope that eventually, if you say to company long enough,

[00:21:29] uh, at a lower level, you'll be managed by someone who looks like they're about years old. And who was formerly a crossing guard. So, yeah. Right. And, and, and, uh, Mark S seems to like be, or trying to get from Milchick. Like, I can't believe you severed like someone so young, but we don't know that she's severed either. Right. Cause I mean, Milchick is, is point. You know, he claims, uh, unsevered. Yeah.

[00:21:56] I think anyone with a last name instead of a first name is unsevered. That's my. Oh yeah. That's a good rule. Yeah. And her, then the spelling of her name is H U not W O. And, uh, I, I think that might, I mean, that's an Englishization of, uh, uh, origin name from, uh, from some other countries. And to me that says more Southeast Asia than it does say China or somewhere else.

[00:22:25] I'm not an expert in those things, but that's at least my own personal anecdotal experience. So, um, I think that's an interesting point. The other thing is when he's, when they're playing the, I believe it's when they're playing the game, like you said, Anthony, like, how is that related? They show Mark looking at her and then we get a flash of Miss Casey very briefly. Yep. As he's resolving the thing about, did he make four friends or three friends?

[00:22:53] So I was talking to my wife, Sarah about this and I, she was asking, you know, why doesn't she just ask a neat immediately? Like, where is Miss Casey? What, what ask about his wife? And I think that that scene is important because up until that moment, I don't think Mark knows exactly what he's going to do. Like what his plan is. I think he thought, I got to get down there. I got to go find her.

[00:23:19] And when he can't find her, he's sitting in that stupid ball game. And in that moment, his whole demeanor changes. And it's right after the flashback to the image of Miss Casey and his, right. Or Gemma. When he sees that flash, I think that that is meant to tell us he has, he has a purpose. And the purpose is I'm going to discover what happened to Gemma.

[00:23:48] And at that moment, he switches his demeanor to be very, uh, amiable, very collegial. And he takes the correction from the supervisor. He decides, I'm going to keep playing this game until I can find out the information that I need. Because I think he knows he, any kind of direct approach is not going to work. Unless you, unless he appeals directly to the board. So. Yeah.

[00:24:18] Who knows? Well, and that's like in the beginning of, of season one, I mean, Mark is kind of like, you know, for the, you know, to, to, to belabor the last name, but he's kind of like the boy scout of the group. Right. He is kind of the, the, uh, what he was pretending to be, you know, in Anthony's example is kind of who he was. But the difference is, is that like, he's, he's not that guy anymore. But I think also, especially from a Milchick perspective, he knows he's not that guy anymore. Like the, the, the veil of innocence has been lifted.

[00:24:48] Um, it would, you know, but again, these are innings, right? So these are not super savvy individuals. These are, these are relatively new creations. So even this level of like, it's like when you, when your child first learns to lie, you're like, you're really bad at this. But, uh, but I appreciate the effort. And so there's kind of that element too, is like, as Mark's getting a little bit more clever, sometimes it's just, well, then you just run somewhere.

[00:25:17] Uh, it was a good trick though. It was clever. Like he got them immediately, the break room. Oh my God. The break room is sacrosanct. Right. Right. They all bailed for this, for the, the break room. So I want to bring in, uh, somebody making the case C about Ms. Wong, uh, Maureen D on our discord said people are speculating about cloning because of the goats. What if Ms. Wong is a clone of Ms.

[00:25:43] Casey also in a rewatch of the birthing cabin scene from season one, I picked up Rickon remembering that the last time Mark was in health facility was for his wife, Gemma. That does make you wonder how Lumen got Gemma. Do they run everything in the town? Hmm. So is, is Ms. Casey, is Ms. Wong a clone of Ms. Casey? And I think there's, there's clues. David, you brought up one that you, you know, he sees a flash of the wedding photo and then it focuses right in on her.

[00:26:13] And maybe that's not like a direct cause and effect, but perhaps it's a, it's a show running technique. It's a directorial, directorial technique to just sort of draw our attention toward some kind of similarity there. Yeah. Some drawing, some kind of parallel relationship. I still think Anthony's right though, and that that's the moment that he, he pivots, but yeah. Could be bold. It does reinforce. And then we get that very last scene of the different computer terminal with Ms. Casey.

[00:26:42] And I think that this is my theory on that is they've removed the cameras, but they're monitoring them through the terminals. Uh, that's not my theory, but that's my theory. Okay. Yep. Yep. So, but also David, you sent a screenshot of that photo and I believe there's a, uh, V25. Okay. There's somewhere. Yeah. I gotta go to, where did I put that? It might not be. It's in the spoiler.

[00:27:11] Uh, I put it in the season one spoiler. Yeah. You know what? I don't think it's on this screen, but when you go to Ms. Casey, it's a, it says something like V25. So I think that my, my theory right now is that they are. Yeah. Build 25. It's yeah. Yeah. That's right. You're correct. Yeah. Okay. So my, my theory at this point for overall, what the numbers are for and what Lumen's doing as its main goal is to be able to rebuild a human consciousness so the cure can be immortal. That, that's just what I think is happening. Ooh, that's a big wager.

[00:27:41] That's my internet points down. That's my internet points right here. And I think Ms. Casey is one of the subjects. I don't know if she died and they took her body and did that with her. I don't know if they just, if she lived and they still did the same thing with her. I don't know any of that, but I think that Ms. Casey, these iterations of Ms. Casey. Are what we're, what we're seeing. And I think they figured out some way to speed grow flesh here.

[00:28:07] And you know, what's interesting is in the bottom left corner of that image, she's looking at the screen. So she, it's not like, it's like a profile picture of her, but there's a, in the left corner, there's a little box of several set. What looked to me like cells, right? You know, in one of those high school biology things where you're watching cell division happening. Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Cause we're talking about the whole, we're talking about that. That ending scene. Yeah. So let's, let's get back to that then.

[00:28:36] Cause I have a subsequent DNA related theory. Well, I do want to just add that going back to my plastic pileup discovery in, I mean, it does, like I said, they're talking about all this plastic waste and, and that's what one of their divisions. And then there is that, like I said, that, that little blurb that I thought was most interesting. It's like, they, they're no longer turning plastic bottles into plastic bottles. They're doing something else with them, uh, with the actual like construct of the molecules, I think is what they're talking about. So I think there's something interesting there to be said for like talking about cloning,

[00:29:05] like, okay, turning one thing into another thing and over and over that they've got, there's a breakthrough apparently in this plastic pileup situation that could also, uh, be a little bit of a clue to some of this potential cloning aspect. Interesting. Yeah. I like it. Any other thoughts on this section before we move into our favorite innies coming back? All right. Back again, they are Mark, Dylan, Irv, and Helly arrive at work sometime later, all suspicious

[00:29:35] about the circumstances of their return. Mark fills them in with Dylan telling him it was the right thing for him to end their replacements lives. Well, Irving is distraught about seeing Bert in love with another man. I have to say that that scene between Bert and Irv, or sorry, Irv and, um, and Dylan,

[00:30:01] sorry, sorry, Irv and Dylan, where these two characters are generally antagonistic to each other. They're Bert and Ernie, right? They're an odd couple. They're an Oscar and, uh, what was Oscar's, uh, roommate's name? Felix. Um, they are, they are an odd couple. And, uh, I always thought at first my, my season one read of them was they tolerate each other. They have to work together. So they're here.

[00:30:29] They'll make, they'll, they'll get, get through suffering each other's, you know, idiosyncrasies. But then when Dylan has that moment of authenticity and says, you know, man, I don't, I don't want you to go because I, you're like my best friend. And then they're hugging and I'd be sad. And then Irv reveals to him that the way they shot that, the way they miked that, the way

[00:30:59] that the dialogue itself, the, the, the two actors, that scene was exquisite. And it told me so much more about these two characters that I, I didn't realize. And they, they revealed this extra depth and complexity to both of them individually, as well as to their, uh, relationship with each other. And I just, uh, was floored by that they put that in this episode was incredible.

[00:31:28] Uh, it, it, I don't know. I love, uh, Irv being Dylan's favorite perk and then Dylan going, don't you use those against me? Leave them out of this. Yeah, that's what it was. Well, and it's, it's a great way to, cause I know there's a lot of things that like that, that clue into like sort of the childlike innocence of the any to, to some degree. Right. But it's like the consequence of knowledge, uh, is so well, uh, captured in that moment,

[00:31:58] especially with, with Irv, Irv, just like Irv at this point, as in any wants to sever, right. He wants to sever his, from his pain that he's feeling. Right. So it's like this, this extra layer, like we get a chance to see, like, you know, you go out, he Mark trying to like, it's almost like severing is kind of like suicide adjacent, right. It feels this sort of, uh, it's like, it's like suicide for those who are afraid to die. Um, you know, you just, you just get a little, little bit of it.

[00:32:24] And, and Irv is like the woman who the Senator's wife who didn't want to go through the pain of childbirth. So it's like a pain avoidance thing. Right. And so for Irv, he's like, he's like, I would rather not almost to the point where he's like, when he's saying, I would rather not be than to feel this way. Right. I mean, and part of that is, is, is twofold. It's one is the, the element of like, I'm sad about bird, but I used to be happy because I used to be ignorant. And now I know too much. And to know this much is a burden that is just too much to bear.

[00:32:54] I'd rather, I'd rather be, uh, I'd rather be gone and free than alive with this, with this knowledge. With this knowledge. Wow. Well, and we already know that Irv views being retired as the death of life or the end of life. Made a whole speech about it. Yeah. He made a whole speech about it. Are we all just going to stand here and let them kill him? Right. At the retirement party. So we know his view on this.

[00:33:24] Uh, so for him to take that, you know, that final, final option, I think Dylan knows exactly what Irv thinks about what will happen. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, uh, Dylan even says as much, he goes, don't you call it leaving? That's not what it is. Mm hmm. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, I was going to talk about this scene later, but, but this

[00:33:49] whole idea of the suicidal ideations, I wonder if Irv has, you know, gotten himself into a romantic quandary like this before and they just keep severing him because he's a hopeless romantic. And it's like, well, he's a good worker. We got to figure this out. And, and I don't know if he's done this before and they offered him a way back in. Maybe they offer his Audi a way back in.

[00:34:11] Uh, and to me, it goes into this, this question of when you're severed, you know, the, your memories are erased, but yet you still have a sense of self. You still have all of the theory of your body and your mind, you know, so there's all that stuff is still there. But then what intrinsic qualities are being expressed that bypass certain parts of your

[00:34:41] constructed identity, which is based on history? I, a long time ago, uh, we had a, there's a big group of friends all hanging out downtown, whatever. And one of, one of the guys that we knew got in a motorcycle accident, had a head injury, came back, he was a radically different person. He was kind and he was sweet before that. He was a real a-hole. And, uh, everybody started was like, everybody was like really weird with him. Cause they were like, Whoa, you're not yourself.

[00:35:10] We used to know you use this total asshole. And now you're like sweet and kind, but everybody kept relating to him like his old self. And slowly over time, he started relearning how to be an asshole. And so I don't wonder, like when we were watching Hellie in season one, who was rejecting this and that, that sort of passion and, and, uh, intensity of will that she was showing. That's part of her character, right?

[00:35:40] Mark's sweet naturedness. That's part of his character as well. And so I think I lost the train, the train of my thought there. Maybe can somebody can help me pick it up again. Um, but just, they are, they are one, even if their memories are separate, right? They, maybe the, maybe the, any lives, even if, even if the, any isn't there anymore. But what sort of intrinsic conditions about you exist outside of your learned personality? It's a good question.

[00:36:08] I know Adam Scott just did an interview where he, with Ben Stiller too, and he talked about how he wears a posture correction device when playing any mark. Interesting. Because he wants to be more like confident and upbeat. And apparently Ben Stiller saw this. He's like, oh, I want that for real life. So he bought it. Yeah, my wife was talking about how like just sort of like a dream influence, right? Like your, your, your everyday life will, will influence your dreams.

[00:36:38] And there's sort of that, you know, even though it's a different world, a different part of your brain maybe is functioning. It's, it's, um, like, so the idea that like what we know of each one of their lives and we don't know a lot about, um, like the only thing we really know about Dylan is that he's a family man. Right. Um, but he's got a big, big ass closet, big ass closet. He also spends a lot of time with children.

[00:36:58] And so he tends to be, I mean, while like they all have a certain childlike innocence, he seems to be the most like, like a, a bragging kid or, you know, really diving into like imagination and things like that. So it might be the kind of thing that he hears a lot from his children. Um, you know, and so there may be some influence there.

[00:37:17] And like, like you're saying with like Hellie's sort of her, her passion for, for whatever, making her sort of this, you know, whether it's a corporate or, uh, you know, drive or it's a, you know, daddy issues, whatever it might be. And so I think somehow that's leading her to be a little bit more of a take charge person. Cause maybe she's not a take charge person in real life. Right. Like, I mean, maybe that's the other part is like, these are all like almost fantastical versions of themselves. Right.

[00:37:44] That are influenced by who they wish they could be on some level. And then their innies get to do that. Yeah. I, I think that's right. And these, any Audi dynamics are basically what make this whole show interesting. And it's, it's even more interesting that they decided to just leave the Audis out of it for episode one. So why don't we go right to Keanu? Let's go and watch the video.

[00:38:08] The team is called into the break room only to find it completely renovated with posters and a movie projector. The team watches a video glorifying the macro debt uprising, but showing them in pretty exaggerated portrayals. They're told about new perks like upgraded snacks and activities. And Mr. Milchick tells them they have until the end of the day to decide if they want to stay. They're innies, not their Audis. Mark shares his Audi experience and Heli lies about hers.

[00:38:38] Can I, can I just say this was so Santa Claus is a coming to town. Oh yeah, absolutely is. Absolutely is. It's a heat miser with his hair on fire completely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Stiller said in an interview that he was really excited to include that. And the, uh, the animator who did, I forget the name of the animator who did that, but it's not actually stop motion. Okay. It's made to look that way.

[00:39:08] And, um, it's the same, it's the same animator who did a movie called, uh, animal Lisa. I don't know if you've seen this movie anyway. Um, but it w it's totally made to look like the, those, the, those little Christmas movies. And that scene with Irv's head, just lighting on fire. That's totally taken from that particular, uh, uh, Christmas show.

[00:39:36] Uh, I, I loved it. I loved it so much. And it is probably the most nefarious part of this episode because, because so much thought had to go into. Um, reframing these personalities. So to, so the whole thing doesn't blow up in their face.

[00:40:02] How can we get these characters back in this space and remain our slaves? What was it? Cobell said in season one, he says, she said something like, um, the best way to keep a person enslaved is to make them think of their free. And that's exactly what this video was meant to do. It's meant to make them think we're heroic. We've changed the, the, the, the corporate culture.

[00:40:31] Uh, we are the face of reform. And so why not see this through? It was such perfect PR mimicry as well. Of the, we learned and we've grown and it's the, the, the, the, the corpse speak was absolutely on point.

[00:40:51] Also the kinds of perks that are being offered again, come up, come someone, someone, some corporate mind came up with these things like, Ooh, what could we give them to make them feel like they're actually humans? How about a hall pass? Would you like the list? Yes. It's got fruit, leather, cut beans, Christmas mints, and salsas. Hall passes, pineapple bobbing and the mirror room as activities.

[00:41:18] I love the mirror room one that they, they talk up, but for whatever reason, they animate Irv freaking out. Like he's sweating. He's clearly terrified, which adds just like, that's what I like about everything that, that happens in this show. Whenever there's even something kind of ridiculous like that, it's like, there's just a little bit of a boat weight and, and there's, well, there's always something, but it's, there's an intentionality to it. That's, I find very fascinating. Again, going back to like, what can you trust?

[00:41:48] Why this isn't for every any that comes in here because every any that comes in there would not know that there was ever an uprising or that there was there anything of that nature because the any is basically starting fresh. I mean, it's, it's a fascinating, uh, you know, ploy and it's like, and just everything makes me nervous on this show and I love it. Nothing makes me more nervous than pineapple bobbing. Oh my gosh. I've kept on getting, I mean, oh, don't do it. Helly, don't do it. And did you notice that she's basically cuffed?

[00:42:17] Like they, I don't die, but she's basically cuffed when she's doing it. Cause the first shot we see of her is her hound, her hands are bound behind her back. And I was like, oh, that's a little weird BDSM weird. And then it's pineapple bobbing. And I was like, okay. So I think that all that's intentional, right? All of it's supposed to be like an underlying tone of, we know what you did or not happy about it. And we're going to be like, and also like, think about it this way.

[00:42:43] All of the snacks and all of the benefits are all like a little bad, right? Like fruit leather. It's almost fruit, but it's leather, right? Like they're just like, not quite what you would want. And I think that it's kind of passive aggressive lumen punishment. So here's my question for the group. We, as a severed employee, you start to get bored with the same snacks over and over again.

[00:43:10] What is your go-to mixture of any two snacks? I think I'm going to do, what is it? Christmas mints in salsa. Oh. Jeez. Yeah, I was going to go fruit leather in salsa. I think you could actually kind of make a little rap out of it. Yeah, right? A rap? Oh my God. Bike here. I just can't deal with this. Anthony?

[00:43:40] Combo? You can think about it. None of this sounds good. I'm going to forego the snacks and go to the Hall of Mirrors and just sweat it out. Yeah. Yeah. And again, that's looking like torture. So is the being, you know, trying to catch sharp fruit with your mouth while handcuffed. Again, it's all insidious. And the hall passes. Wait, weren't they allowed to just walk in the hall before? Why do they need hall passes now? Right.

[00:44:08] And the way that they subtly make fun of each of them, like with Dylan going crazy in the snack room. Yeah. Even his little face afterwards, like, what the fuck? I'm that excited about perks. But I think you're right, John, that there's a definite under, it's a Milchick kind of thing.

[00:44:29] It's smiling on the surface, but underneath there's this very insidious, very dangerous institution, organism, something there that you're getting all of these subtle warning signs to not, don't poke the bear, don't poke the system. And then there's just no reason the building has to acknowledge the water tower. That's right, water tower.

[00:44:56] And also, I think it's just, it's an exaggerated critique of actual corporate America, right? Totally. A company, you know, virtue signaling for some targeted group and then donating to politicians that fight against that group. That kind of thing, right? Like, there's something insidious going underneath the surface. Well, I think it was at Coca-Cola and it was one of the Kardashians and she was at a protest and she, like, gives the cop a Coke or something. Did you guys see that one? Wasn't it Fresca?

[00:45:26] Was it Fresca? I don't remember what the drink was. Or was that the boys' parody? I don't remember. No, that must, yeah, I don't know. But anyway, it's that whole kind of thing of like, look, we're, you know, we're changing the world with our product. Yeah, it's all ridiculous. My favorite Coca-Cola moment was when Elon removed the verification from Twitter and somebody made a fake Coca-Cola account and said, we're putting the cocaine back in. All right.

[00:45:52] Can we talk about the conversation that they had after this whole thing? You know, they've been told their innies can leave at any time they want. Their Audis aren't in charge anymore. And also, big emphasis on there's no cameras here. Plus, guess who emphasizes that when they're like, we have to whisper? Heli R says, oh, but they said there's no cameras. And she's the one who pointed it out as well. Mm-hmm. Twice she pointed it out. Yeah, she walked in and she's like, there's no camera.

[00:46:20] Are you suggesting that maybe Heli is not severed? Like they've sent her down on this. Is this not Heli R? This is Helena. I'm convinced. On a second watch, I am convinced that this is Helena. And I'll make my case now. All right. And I will give credit. Paws in 20 and Ghost of Partition did suggest this in the Discord. I think it's flying around other parts of the internet too. Yeah. As the internet will do. Urethra Franklin in our Discord also said,

[00:46:51] you know, it might just be that she's ashamed of her Audi company figurehead. Same thing. Eon pretty much said that, you know, completely disgusted with her Audi. But for me, there were several things that made her suspicious. One, she mentioned the cameras twice. And Heli has been suspicious since the beginning. She's been really careful about everything. She's been really calculated in her planning. And all of a sudden, she's not concerned at all about being watched. Two, she lied about her Audi life.

[00:47:18] And I know that we could read this as shame, but I don't think so based on the lie. And that's such a tool, right? Like if you knew that, if you knew that you had that much power on the outside, that's such a tool. That's such a bargaining chip with management. Why wouldn't you tell your coworkers if you were on a mission? Three is that she acted like she was recounting a story from a long time ago. She was having trouble remembering. Not something she just experienced as an inning. Because she just woke up, right?

[00:47:44] So this would have been hours before she experienced her. I mean, Irv is pounding on the elevator doors like he was pounding on Bert's doors, right? He like cut like that. Right. Probably an hour before she experienced this. He's like, oh, I think the shirt was maybe a save the gorillas. Who knows? Some nature show. I think he was a night gardener. Are we kidding? That was a great line. Well, we know it's a lie. We saw her at the party. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.

[00:48:13] So this is all just kind of her being a bad liar. Sure. Well, but why is she being a bad liar? Well, that's one element of the – here's the thing is she's fresh out the elevator. That means like to your point, she just – she went from making a speech. Yeah. And outing everything. To coming in and then having in that span of time going, all right, I'm going to – not only am I going to not say what I did, I'm going to come up with this other story.

[00:48:42] I mean, it just – it seems odd. I mean, it just seems like of all – like everybody was coming out. Even – I mean, Dylan is still upset about his belt. Right, right. So it's like – He has me in a belt. Yeah. So, I mean, it could be that Hellie is just – is different type of composure and she's able to put that all together.

[00:49:06] But if you are on the outside and you are going to send these innies back, which innie is the biggest problem to send back, right? Okay. For whatever reason, Mark is important and he's always been important. Why? I want to put a flag in that. Just like why is Mark? Mark, and I think about that all the time and especially at this episode. And so there's the miscase. Sorry to interrupt you, Steve, but he gets what he wants.

[00:49:33] Nobody else gets what they want, but he gets what he wants, which is his team back. A team of troublemakers. Sorry, carry on. I didn't mean to – No, totally, right? Andy also knows that there is somebody that is alive that he thinks is dead in the other world and like that's also a problem. That would be a complication that you wouldn't just re-release into the wild. But Hellie, if she came back and was like, oh, guess what? I'm, you know, I'm part of the family. Yeah, exactly.

[00:50:04] That's the kind of information that trumps everything that you throw in there. So it would make sense that it's like, all right, your Audi or, you know, your Innie had, you know, as part of this big thing. Again, we don't know. We'll find out in the next episode, I assume, what that world of the Audis is like at this point. But she's the one you can't just have in there just running them up because she could also just be like, you can't do anything to me. I run this place.

[00:50:34] I'm in charge. And so that's an element that you can't have go back. So I think that adds a little bit more credence to that, that she's, she's Audi on the inside. Yeah. And there's more too, I think. I mean, she's going, oh, you can tell us what you saw, Irv, even if it's bad. That line got me. And then finally was her conversation with Mark, where Mark saying, well, you know, Miss Casey is my Audi, my wife. And she's like, oh, well, it's your Audi's wife.

[00:51:02] And she keeps emphasizing this difference. And he goes, well, it's kind of the same. It's what she goes. No, we're not the same. And then she takes a beat. She goes, we're not the same. You know, you don't know your Audi anything. I think they're terrible. And her demeanor changed there. I would encourage everybody to go back and watch that couple seconds because her demeanor changed there is so purposeful. And I think it really shows that she lost her. She got out of character for a minute. Right. And then she corrected.

[00:51:33] I agree with that. And also what she does next when she says, but if it's important to, you know, you or your Audi, she's like, I'll help you. But she does it in a way that's like, but she betrays her last sentiment. If her last sentiment was truly, hey, I hate my Audi. My Audi is nothing. And we should. She was ready to cut off her fingers and hang herself.

[00:51:57] And if that's where she, if that's where she was, even in that sentence, then next it's like, but hey, if this is what you think is best and this will help your Audi, then yeah, I'll follow you. I'll help you out. And that, that part was a little bit like, cause that was such an abrupt turn from where, where that conversation should have been going. Especially if she was like, hey, I'm, you know, we left the last time we saw each other. Like we kissed, like there was, there were feelings brewing. Right.

[00:52:24] And now it's kind of like, oh, kind of a little, it looks, you could kind of read it as faux jealousy, or you could also kind of read it as keeping them off the scent. Right. Right. And if she's there steering and manipulating them subtly, to what end? Why have these four back? I think because they don't know what happened to the others. And, and here's my thing.

[00:52:52] I believe Milchik that there's no more cameras because you don't need a camera. You have a human camera. You have Heliar. You have Helena. And is she, is she part of the design of this? Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think she just is a spy. She's just an internal thing. So anything they say she's going to hear and they don't even have to worry about having it on camera. Are they actually leaving when they leave the severed floor?

[00:53:18] I mean, we won't know until episode two, if we get outside of the, off the severed floor. Yeah. That's the thing. I just don't know about the timeline on any of this because I mean, they leave, they come back and now there's this whole video presentation. That doesn't just happen. Is that an overnight thing? You know, can you get Keanu Reeves that quickly? I don't know. But like, but the, the idea that like everything that's happening, there's like, okay, it was five months to get to that, but it's like, okay, so why in five months did it take that long for Milchek's stuff to get into the office?

[00:53:48] Yeah, that's exactly what Euretha Franklin said on our discord server was, you know, unless I Lumen's IT department is very slow. Why is Miss, hello, Miss Cobell still up? Right. I mean, he's got crates that are still like partially opened. Right. And, and, and so his, you know, if the succession plan was, was relatively, uh, swift, why, I mean, five months is a long minute. Look, I've been in corporate situations. I understand. But if you're going to promote from within, you could probably move that up pretty quickly. Now, you haven't seen me move house.

[00:54:18] It takes me years. Side note, um, the triptych that Miss Cobell had up behind her of the storm clouds, that was, uh, I, I noticed that in the storeroom when, um, Mr. Milchek takes Dylan into that back secret room to look at the, um, the plans for the visitation, uh, um, what do they call it? The visitation suite. It's the, uh, well, we'll, we'll talk about it in a second, but it's the Audi family visitation suite. That's it. Yeah.

[00:54:48] Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. And we're back. So why don't, why don't we go right there, David? And then I'll, I'll let you respond first so that you can, you can talk about your, your theory crafting with it. Uh, cause we kind of talked about the Irv and Miss and, uh, Heli scenes, uh, you know, them doubting if they're going to stay and whatnot. Yeah. The family suite is the next scene. Uh, Mr. Milchek becomes frustrated with his welcome screen. Still reading.

[00:55:18] Hello, Mr. Cobell. Miss Huang invites Dylan to Mr. Milchek's office, apologizing for not, uh, who apologizes for not hearing him at his needs. He shows Dylan the Audi, the design for the Audi family visitation suite and asks him to keep it a secret from the others out of jealousy. Dylan returns to his desk and the four innings start working. So David. Yeah. What's your thoughts?

[00:55:45] Um, I was just talking to somebody about this the other day about, it's a strange context, but we're talking about secret police and neighbors ratting on each other. And, uh, I, uh, nextdoor.com. Yeah. And, and this idea that how do you incentivize your neighbor to, you know, how do, how do you recruit somebody to, uh, rat on their neighbors?

[00:56:14] And it was, this is a perfect psychological manipulation of Dylan. Absolutely textbook of your wife's name, you know, and he knew that he already had a prior knowledge that he is, he, uh, that Dylan was very motivated by knowing who he was. His kids are. And this could be a thing where it never gets built or they, you know, they sort of fake built, you know, they could drag corporate wise.

[00:56:40] They could drag this thing out for a long time, but they're recruiting Dylan to be another pair of eyes and ears on the floor. Right. Because you don't really need to incentivize him to stay. That's kind of, he's, he seems to be kind of all in. He let, he's good at it, right? He's good at macro data refining. Right. So, so to add this other incentive suggests, um, yeah, it's, it's another, it's a different, uh, he's recruiting in here. Yeah. Yeah. Totally recruit. Yeah. Yeah. But Steve, answer me this question.

[00:57:10] Is Gretchen real? Does Dylan have a wife? That's, that's a great question. That was a great question. Or is she even Gretchen? Right. I mean, does it matter? Right. He doesn't have to, um, be honest with them about any of this. Right. Especially if they're not going to actually make this visitation wing and the visitation wing is just a carrot. And even if it is a real thing, you can bring anybody you want in there to play. You can, you know. Right. To play your family. Yeah. The college theater majors are going to get a lot of work in this town.

[00:57:38] Because I've watched a lot of spy, uh, dramas and read a lot of spy books. That's good recruitment if you use her real name. Because there's an authenticity into, as you're describing it or explaining it. Uh, as opposed to a lie, which you could, oh, uh, right. Just stick to the, to as close to the truth as possible. So I wouldn't doubt that that's her name. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't do anything one way or another. Right. At this point. It's only if you get caught up in your own lies.

[00:58:07] If you only get, if you get caught up in your own, um, uh, shoelaces, so to speak. So go ahead. Well, I, and I had a question for you, Anthony, because you mentioned that, uh, your daughter in the past, uh, has some color theory knowledge and stuff. I would love to get her take on the cobalt blue color scheme of, uh, Milchek's office. And it's blue everywhere. This, this episode is blue all over it. So I don't know if, if you can ask her, her opinions.

[00:58:36] I will definitely ask her that. I just wanted to sort of lean into John's theory crafting, which I've been thinking about here because it hadn't occurred to me before that. It's actually Helena. We're watching and not hell ER. Right. Mm-hmm. So this is just kind of a new concept for me.

[00:58:56] So I'm piecing this through the family visitation center is the perfect perk or at least the perfect promise of a perk. If I can be alliterative for Dylan. Right. A hundred percent. And then this whole ruse with the fake team, it could have been just like a carrot stick thing with Mark.

[00:59:21] Like they were eventually planning to bring back the people anyway, but they wanted to give, wanted to make it seem as if Mark. Won. Won this little round. Yeah. Right. Intensifying it. Yep. They're not sure if Irv is going to stay or not. Right. I think it's possible that they're waiting to see if they can incentivize Irv. No attempt is made to incentivize the person who tried to commit suicide.

[00:59:51] The first season, no attempt is made to try to recruit Helly. And it could be that they think, well, there's a romance brewing. Maybe that's enough. But I think it's, I think it's telling that there's a specific attempt to incentivize both Mark and. Oh shit.

[01:00:13] And one way to incentivize Irv maybe is to bring back his, his, his lover from out of retirement. His lover from another husband. All right. Flash, flash theory. Mark W says that his prior team never hit quota. Yeah. They're dirtbags. They're dirtbags. Shambolic dirtbags. When someone tells you that all their exes are crazy, they were the crazy one. They were the crazy one.

[01:00:44] The, and so what's different about this team, this team hits quota. Uh, you know, Dylan is a good macro data refiner. Mark is a good macro data refiner. Going to your DNA theory, the four humors during the, when they visit the perpetuity wing, the voiceover of Egan is about the four humors. Yep.

[01:01:10] And that a human soul is made up, uh, by various percentages of these humors. And in the macro data refiner's handbook, which is at the end of the Lexington letter, which you can get through Apple books, man, the marketing tie in this is wild. I was listening to the official podcast a little bit. The ad that the host read ads that they are doing are so weird because they're out for other corporations. It's, it's freaky.

[01:01:38] Anyway, the, in there, they talk about the, the four different humors and then that you're refining those into that. So if I'm, I'm starting to get convinced of your DNA cloning theory thing here, John, that they're, you know, if a person or a cell or some part of is made up of these humors, then they're, they're, they're doing some sort of cellular level refinement.

[01:02:08] David, this is great because this was, this is leading right into my theory. If you, I'm not a shambolic group. I'm actually a professional podcast. If you Google severance sorting, you will see, it will pull up the four categories you can put the numbers into. Those are W O F C. I have this on our theory crafting channel on, on discord as well. Okay. So that's, it lines up. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:35] It lines up with woe, frolic, dread, and malice, which were the four humors outlined by cure. But weirdly on their terminals, there are five buckets. There are, but if you click into any of the buckets, you get those four items. Okay. Okay. So I don't know. I wonder if it's like different souls that they're. Are you playing the game? Like there's a game, isn't there, didn't they make a macro definement game? I don't know. I didn't do that. Okay. All right. I think there's a game out there on the internet somewhere.

[01:03:04] So also to create the parallels with DNA, there are four nucleotides that make up all of DNA. And so if you have the four humors creating the soul, then you have the four nucleotides making DNA. Now you can make your own person, your own human being with a soul. And you see Anthony, Anthony and I were going back and forth with this today. Anthony, you were, you were, you mentioned the cold Harbor location.

[01:03:32] And I actually saw somebody online say cold spring Harbor first, so I don't want to take complete credit, but a cold spring Harbor. If we add the spring in the middle, and I think it could be a reference to both of our things. Cold spring Harbor is the laboratory in which Watson and Crick gave their presentation on the double helix on what DNA was made of on these four nucleotides and everything.

[01:03:54] And so perhaps they're signaling that this is the lab where the soul is being decoded. Like DNA was decoded in the 1960s. Hmm. That's where I'm at. Hmm. That's where I'm at. And I don't think I led into that properly. Cold Harbor is written on the screen that flashes that has Ms. Casey's face on it at the very end. Yeah, that's correct. It's, it's, well, yeah. And it's in, it's on the, not only on the screen that flashes, but it's, it's up at the top of its. Oh, okay. Of Mark's screen.

[01:04:24] Of Mark's screen. It was showing his status, right? So in the status bar. So it's interesting. Like, it's hard to know when you see that. Um, it almost looked like Cold Harbor was the, was the job title and, and the percentage was showing how much, how, how, how far he is on that particular task. I would encourage everyone to get the Lexington letter. I, and you could skip the, it's an E it's a ostensibly an email from an employee to a

[01:04:53] reporter and explaining how they start to come to suspect Lumen of being nefarious. A lot of the email, uh, descriptions of what's going on. It's a lot of stuff that I already kind of understood just from basic watching of the show. But what I found really interesting was there's a complete copy of the macro data refiners employee handbook at the end of it. And that is really interesting. So definitely check that out.

[01:05:22] Well, I'm all in on the DNA theory. I don't know if I've convinced anyone else or if I'm spouting nonsense at this point. I do like it. I feel like you've convinced me. I'm a little bit bummed that the two hours of research I did on the civil war today. I want to hear it. No. Yeah. What is, what's the time? Because no, no, no, no, no. It's, it's, it's, it's relevant because, uh, Kier forgiving his enemies or whatever the title of the painting was in the lobby. Yeah.

[01:05:47] When they come back, Kier is wearing a civil war era. Yeah. Yeah. General's uniform. And there are troops standing in the back with rifles with bayonets that look like it could be from that era. Yeah. And from a timeframe, if Luhn was, was founded in, in 1870, um, that's only what, uh, six years after this, this battle that Anthony's talking about. And the Kier Gazette is published since 1893, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the masthead. Yeah.

[01:06:16] So this whole company, at least the mythology of the company really goes back to this post, post, what do we call them? Antebellum, antebellum America, uh, all of the artwork, you know, all the sort of the early mythology was kind of really gave it a Mormon feel. Yep. Yes. Yes. Coupled with the, the really religiosity of it. With a, with a messianic leader, uh, who's figured the, the, the things out about life. Yeah.

[01:06:46] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And then the, the kind of the civil war painting with Kier kind of represented with, you know, the, the, that old, uh, the, the old timey sword, uh, that, that fit. And the first thing I looked, you know, when I did a search for cold Harbor, it's, it's a town in Virginia, but it's where a famous battle was fought.

[01:07:17] And, you know, basically we're looking at an uprising. We're, we're looking at sort of trying to reconstruct this company after the uprising. So there's a theme there. And the more research I did on this particular battle, it was, it's sort of remembered as this major turning point in the civil war, but one that revealed the inequ, inefficacy of grant as a general. Hmm.

[01:07:46] And the reason why he didn't walk away from this battle looking good is because of a breakdown in communication between him and his generals. They were just not, they just didn't have any faith in him and they weren't following his orders, which is exactly kind of when we go back to Milchak, we see for the first time we see Milchak kind of at odds with the institution as a whole.

[01:08:16] And I think that there's going to be something major with Milchak this season where he as middle management has a breakdown with, and maybe a bit of disobedience with upper management. And so Cold Harbor is, is meant to represent an institutional breakdown of, I guess, I mean, it's basically it's an army in this, in this analogy, but I think that that's what we're looking at with Lumen.

[01:08:45] We had an uprising. We're trying to reconstruct the institution post uprising, trying to fix these breakdown in sort of the chain of command that happened previously. And yet I think here we have Milchak with the first little, little kernel, little seed of discontent as a middle manager. I like it. I like it a lot. Also DNA.

[01:09:16] I think it can be both though. Right. And may I add on that civil war painting, they were still buried up to the neck, right? Like we didn't see what happened after that. Yeah. But then he pardons them. That's what it's like. Keir pardons his betrayers. Yeah. And then he leaves them where they are and he promises not to harm them anymore. Well, they can bob for pineapples. He's definitely wearing a blue colored uniform in this, which goes back to the blue. One more thing about this. Sorry. Yeah. No, for sure.

[01:09:46] I don't know if this is just a Rorschach test. It could just be that they, that this show knows that there's going to be tons of theory crafting going on. Oh yeah. Red meat for the Reddit desk. And so let's just make sure we throw out these red herrings. Yeah. To sort of throw people off the scent. And I totally would be fine if that's what they're doing just to keep the mystery box intact. Well, and they, and there is kind of a meta moment, right?

[01:10:14] Where, I mean, it's, it's, it's showed up before, but I think it's even more poignant with this much time in between the seasons. When, when they're, when he, Mark is being asked, you know, did you see the sky? You know, do you know where we are? There's a lot of us, you know, there are a lot of bets on Wyoming, you know, and I'd like you. So we're kind of the innies, right? Because we don't know this world at all.

[01:10:42] Like we, we only know whatever part of this world we get to see. So there we're, we're left to do this theory crafting and that's what they do as well. So I think that's kind of a fun idea that to be aware that they're, that they're innies as opposed to just having no idea. Right. Like, I think that's a really fascinating concept that just continues to bear fruit. So blue. All right. The blue t-shirt or the blue undershirt, by the way, that's, that's my standard.

[01:11:09] I go in, I go into work, I got the, the sport coat, wear the, the color for shirt underneath. I need to know, do you have patches on your elbows? Uh, with some, yes, I do. Some, some, some of the, the tweed jackets have a elbow packet patches. Noted. Okay. Thank you. They don't take you seriously in academia unless you have at least one. It's like a lab coat without a stethoscope. Come on. It's, you know. And that's because there's just so much like army crawling going on in academia.

[01:11:38] Is that like what they have to protect? Low crawl, high crawl. Yeah. Um, the, the, the blue shirt's important in terms of plot because after Mark, the very first scene when Mark's running around. Yep. There's an ominous figure. Yes. Standing behind him. Yes. And my initial thought was, Ooh, it's Milchek. Mm-hmm. But if you look at it carefully. He wasn't wearing blue. He's wearing a white shirt. Yep. And then Milchek walks in with the balloons.

[01:12:08] We're in that blue turtleneck. Yep. And you're thinking, well, who was it? Who was standing out there? Yep. So anyway, I just thought I'd throw that out. Yeah. No, that's a good one. That's a good point too. Because I, on the second watch, cause I had just, I, first time I watched it, I just assumed it was Milchek even after the fact. And then I, when I went back to go, wait a minute, they're not wearing the same outfit. So that just adds a level of, well, you're not, not being watched. It's Miss Casey with a haircut.

[01:12:38] That's all it is. While we're on Milchek and what's going on with him really quick. There was a line that really struck me. I locked you in a room like an animal, Mark. As an unsevered man, I'll carry that knowledge the rest of my life. So there's this great, you know, Milchek, you know, sort of coming straight with Mark and all this kind of stuff.

[01:13:05] But at the same time, it's a very, the you that is you sort of silly statement, like, I'm not severed, so I'm going to remember this. Right. The obvious statement, you know, sort of. So there was like this humorous element to it. But then a very, just like Milchek, there's like this surface smiley thing. And then underneath there's something that's very, very sinister or something.

[01:13:29] And so I just, you know, Milchek, if he says that, if he recognizes that Mark is not an animal, but he treated him like an animal, wouldn't that signal that Milchek has a sense of morality of what is right and what is wrong? No. That he has a value frame? I really am going to argue with you about this. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because did he ever say it was wrong?

[01:13:59] Did he ever say he feels bad about it? No, he said. No, you're right. You're very right. I locked you in a room like an animal, Mark. That's a statement of fact. I'll carry that knowledge with me for the rest of my life. So even if we say he thought it was bad, what he's saying is, it's my pain. It's not your pain. It's my pain that I have to bear. It's a classic non-apology. Totally. Classic non-apology. I'm not even sure it's pain. I think it's just like, I just get to remember it. Yeah, exactly. I get to relish that for the rest of my life.

[01:14:28] And then you go to Dylan. All right, so let me hit you with this one. He goes to Dylan. I don't think I wrote this one down. But this was, he's talking to Dylan about the family, the Audi family visitation suite. Dylan says, is this real? He said, does this mean I get to meet my family? And Mr. Milchick says, if you take it at face value, I'd say so. That did not say yes.

[01:14:56] That said, if you take this at face value, if you take the name at face value, then yes. Yeah, Milchick is painfully honest. But it's, it's, it's Aes Sedai speak. If you watch The Wheel of Time, you know, it's this. I knew you were going to say that. It's the Aes Sedai and The Wheel of Time have a rule. Speak no untrue word. That does not mean they can't lie. That means they can mislead you with any, without saying untrue words. And so here Milchick is saying, yeah, that's what the, that's what the name means.

[01:15:25] Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Doesn't mean this is real. Doesn't mean I promised it. Tucker Carlson and him all, all the whole time. Anyway, I just, I just wanted to point that out. Like he really didn't make any good promises here. He pleaded very carefully with his words. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. I think it, um, it would, it would make you, it's that thing where you, where, where somebody says, hey, what color is the sky? And you're like, why are you treating me so badly?

[01:15:53] Like somebody's making, they're reacting to something that's not actually been said. And his words make it sound like he has a moral center. Right. But, but these are just basically, these are two factual sentences. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think you're right. I think you've, you've, you've gotten me off the point there, which is, yeah, there's, there's nothing in the statement. I didn't yell no for no reason. Right. I do think we're going to see a character arc with him. I agree. That's unexpected.

[01:16:24] Is he the Zuko of this generation? I don't, maybe he is Zuko. I don't know. It's, it's a good question. I think there's something about, I don't know why, but I felt kind of sorry for him about the screen. Well, well, the title is the title of the episode is, is tells you that that is an important part of this, of this episode. Right.

[01:16:49] I mean, it's not just a throwaway thing that, that like, that after five months, IT, there's theoretically five months, IT hasn't gotten to this, this screen, which is also like, you, you can't change it. I guess he doesn't have admin rights to this, to this computer. But, but it is, it's an important thing because he's, everybody's an experiment to some degree. It feels like, right?

[01:17:16] I mean, like, like, I mean, if you're, if you're not, if you're not Egan, you're, I mean, hell, even, even, even, uh, Helena's a, to, to some degree. Right. I mean, it's like, so the idea that, that, uh, that he has any agency, maybe his, he, he may believe that, that same thing that, uh, Cobell was saying, right. You know, like, he's convinced he's free. He's as an unsevered man. He makes a point to say that. Right.

[01:17:39] And then I thought that was an interesting thing to say because, um, I mean, while, while it's, it's, it's fine in conversation, it wasn't it, to me, it felt like an exclamation point in an otherwise, um, you know, uh, regular declaration. Like it did feel like, like that was a, a call to, to something that's going to matter. Right. Like, okay. He made like, so I immediately, when he said on seven, I'm like, I wonder if he is. We've never seen him outside. Right. Right. No, wait, we have, we have, we saw him with Dylan.

[01:18:09] He interviewed Dylan. I would. Yeah. Oh yeah, you're right. We did. We did. Okay. And I would absolutely allow him. Well, we saw him in Dylan's, in Dylan's, what we believe is Dylan's closet. Yeah. And I would absolutely allow him to buy me a meal at a bistro. Okay. I'd be there hot quick. Let me just say a couple things about this because I kind of, hmm, let me think. How do I want to say this?

[01:18:39] Lumen had the wherewithal and the creativity to create a stop motion video. To, to redo the break room. To construct. Instead, like they took out the supply room and they're like, put up the. Yeah. Shell or whatever. Yeah. Right. They can do all of that.

[01:19:05] And in five months, they can't reprogram his computer to give him the proper greeting. So that's the, that's one thing. And then the other thing is. It's a total flex by the board, right? He has, he doesn't have an admin rights on his own computer. He doesn't even have enough admin rights to make the setting change himself. So I think that there's something, it has to be intentional.

[01:19:35] And it really shows you that Milchick is just as much of a rat in a maze as anyone. Yeah. Well, and that look he gives Ms. Wong when he closes the door. It's kind of, I mean, there's just something. She's not his creature. Right. Right. He didn't hire her. Exactly. And so there's, because, so yeah, there is, there's a lack of agency for sure.

[01:20:02] And that might, you know, because again, we don't really understand Cobell's backstory all that well either. We know that, we know that she's a believer or she was up until, you know, she ended up getting fired. Um, and I don't know where Milchick fits into all that. Right.

[01:20:21] And, and so there's, I, we, you talked about, uh, David, you talk about how like just, oh, this was a perfect entry to second season with this much anticipation going to it. And, and I would talk about how my anxiety and my level of, of like apprehension. And the reason why I embraced this one so, so heavily and agree with you so wholeheartedly is because I'm like, I've got more questions than answers. And that's what I want.

[01:20:48] You know, like, I mean, I didn't, there's nothing like, it's just, I'm right back into this, this absolute quote mushy environment. Like it's, I just, I, and it's the, the less I know what's going on, the better I feel somehow. That's wild.

[01:21:06] Because I was thinking about this earlier today before we started recording and I was thinking they, have they answered any question or have they only posed more mysteries? They've told us who the Audis are, like who, hell he's Audi. I think that was a big reveal. Goats, uh, I mean, Chip, I don't know. There's just so many mysteries that they've barely paid off any, there's no significant payoffs.

[01:21:36] And we were talking about the PTSD from Lost. Right. But yet here you are, you are, you are like, ah, you're settling down at your terminal. You've got a snack machine humming in the corner, ready to go. And you're, uh, happy as a glam. This fruit leather takes a long time to gnash on. So you gotta, you gotta watch something while you do it. Well, the thing I didn't like about Lost is that it was trying to somehow, like, it felt like it was, it was like, I don't like, it felt like it was untangling.

[01:22:06] And they're going, oh, no, no, no, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get it. We'll tell you what it means. And then they're like, yeah, I don't know. We don't know either. And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't know half the time. Maybe that was the. But I, I guess for me, this play, like, I'm not a jazz fan particularly. Um, however, in the right context, um, I can get on board and it's funny cause Anthony will probably get a kick out of this. Cause I feel like jazz as music, I have a hard time with because of the lack of resolve.

[01:22:34] But when I, when it comes to something like cinematic, I, I, I'm, I'm a, I prefer visual jazz. I think then I do maybe the actual music, but that's why actually there was it, uh, uh, was it burning coal? Was that the, uh, the opening? Yeah. Burning coal. Yep. Yeah. I was all, I was all over that. Like that's not, I'm listening to that and I'm like, okay. Burning coal by Les McCann. Yeah. When those are, when, when I'm watching it work together, that's when I had this sort of like jazz epiphany. And like, for me, this, this, this show does feel like jazz a lot. Right.

[01:23:05] And, uh, and like, there's a lot of like crazy notes being hit and there's a lot of things that go like, how is this working? And like, how do I, how have I been in this song for so long and I'm not tired of it? Man, it's covered so much range. I thought it was this, I thought it was watching, I listened to two or three different songs in this timeframe, but it's just that same one that's gone from here to there.

[01:23:23] And so I think that's what I really, uh, really appreciate about this show is that it's, uh, like we talk about time is such a fascinating thing in not only in the show itself and like, has it been five months? What's happening on the outside world? How much time? Cause like they have no concept time yet. I feel like this show does so much with time in real life by being able to construct so much of a narrative, but at the same time, like, well, what was said, what was done? What do we, what do we accomplish?

[01:23:54] We're about the characters, right? And I think, I think that's going to move us forward. David, do you want to give us your, your needle drops quick? Yeah. Uh, I, I was really impressed by the music selection last, uh, season and we, you know, we have nevermind the music as part of the, the, uh, extended lorehound podcasting network. And so Mark and Nicole have been in my head a lot about, uh, the music. And so I've been really paying attention to it anyway. By Vernon Cole, 1969 by Les McCann.

[01:24:23] That was our open and running maze music. And then the, and it was, there was a, a brilliant transition, uh, uh, out of that into the severance theme music. So it was masterful sound editing. Yeah. And then we had caught that too. It was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have a song called God walked down released in 2016 by the allergies. And that's a band that I know nothing about, but you don't know anything about allergies.

[01:24:53] Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and specifically not this one, both of these songs to me were just so well picked and so well edited and gave me without being gratuitous. It gave me the right amount of needle drop. I mean, there's been some shows recently where it's just like, Oh my God. Or it was a movie. I think it was the Wolverine, uh, um, Deadpool view Wolverine. Yeah. It was just like, Oh, come on. Like it just got exhausting at some point. And I just use these really smart.

[01:25:21] So I want to make sure that I call out the songs in, in a future. Maybe we'll make a little playlist. I'm sure somebody will out there. We'll make a seven playlist. So I've always, I've always appreciated, uh, Ben Stiller's use of music and like, it's like in Zoolander, like he had some really, uh, fun opportunities, uh, to, to, to let. Music kind of be a comedic punchline at times. And, uh, and, and I think he does it in a way that, you know, doesn't feel overwrought.

[01:25:49] Um, and it just adds, it adds a little punch to it. Right. And it's like, I like to see that with, um, whether it's contemporary music that you sometimes find in, in severance or, you know, some of these jazz choices. And like, again, I looked up, uh, the allergies as well. I was not familiar with them at all, but the song just, it just, it, it worked so well. Yeah. It was just, it was, it's kind of, it was remarkable. Right. And to, to have something work like that and have it not, you know, and almost to the point where it feels like I'm like, I think I know the song.

[01:26:19] Like I for sure don't, but I'm so into it at that moment. And so present with it in that scene that, uh, that I feel like I know it. Yeah. There's a character who whistles a tune and I'm about to tell you the name of the tune. So I guess if you don't want spoilers, skip it 15 seconds or whatever.

[01:26:49] Um, one of the characters is whistling Gordon Lightfoot's the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Edmund Fitzgerald. And he's asked, Stiller's asked directly, isn't that song a meta narrative for this entire season? And he gives a non-answer. So it could be, he was just like, you know, pointing, you know, pointing folks and, you know, a wrong direction or something.

[01:27:17] But the non-answer made me really curious. Um, I, you know, I hadn't really looked at the lyrics of that song before. Uh, but I spent a lot of time listening and re-listening to that song. And I have no idea, I have no idea how it relates, uh, in any way to this aside from sort of the naval theme that, uh, Irv has given us in season one.

[01:27:45] I don't really know how it relates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't know the song well, but now I, now I want to go look it up. Um, we did get a piece of feedback via email at severance at the lorehounds.com. If you want to write in from art, the non-musician saying watch severance a while ago, listen to your podcast, watch severance again after six months. Notice the bumper music for the first time.

[01:28:10] How do they make the five notes so creepy, disturbing, pleasant and off-putting depending on the mood of the show? Um, it's really the underlying chord structures. I mean, it's, it's essentially the fifth of the scale, the minor seventh, and then it goes down chromatically until you get back to your fifth. The fifth is like kind of a safe note, but it's not quite resolved. Uh, I'm trying to be Mark from nevermind the music. I'm failing at it.

[01:28:37] Uh, but you know, you see how you're inching back down and, uh, depending on what kind of treatment you give it with the chords underneath, that's going to sound prettier. Like Eleanor Rigby has something very similar and that's prettier in there or perhaps. You're totally channeling Mark right now. I love it. I'm trying. I do. I do have a degree in this. I just forgot most of it. And, um, but also in here, you can have it be really creepy, like in the intro. It's very cool stuff.

[01:29:06] I think anybody else have thoughts? Nope. I just, um, you knew what you were saying before, Steve, about, uh, Ben Stiller and his use of music. I just, prior to season one, like when I, it was like, oh, he's directing the show. Okay. Whatever. And then like, wow, this show is really good. And then coming into this, I'm like, holy shit. Ben Stiller is going to be one of our great directors. I better never see him make Blue Steel again. He's only making movies now.

[01:29:37] I didn't get the reference. Blue Steel was the look in Zoolander. He can't act anymore is what I'm saying. Do you, do you realize I've never seen Blue Steel? I've never seen Zoolander. Remember? We've never seen. I've never seen. That's been on our list for a while. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. Well, somebody laughed at that. Maybe. I got it. Steve, for a while, Zoolander was one of Heather's favorite movies. Yeah. She liked it quite a bit. Yeah. I mean, it's, um, see, he is, I think he is a very, uh, a good director.

[01:30:04] I, I, and I, I was an early adopter of Ben's stuff in the Ben Stiller show. Do you remember that? Vaguely. He had his own, he had his own sketch show on Fox, uh, briefly. And it was, um, was that next to in living color? Uh, yeah, it was kind of around that same time. And, um, it was, uh, Janine Garofalo, uh, was, was amongst it. Bob Odenkirk, Andy Dick. Wow.

[01:30:32] Um, those were, those are your main players and they were, um, I think this was right before reality bites, I think. But I, it was very, like, it was very clever stuff. Um, I was just, I just, I remember thinking, oh, this guy's going to be, this guy's going to be huge. And then he just wasn't for a good long time. And then, then, uh, found his way back. I mean, I, he was on SNL as like a bit character briefly.

[01:30:58] Um, he would play Tom Cruise or, uh, a grownup Eddie Munster. And I just think the, what is it, which one was it, uh, what about Mary or something? Something about Mary. Something about Mary. That, that, that whole sort of puerile, that adolescent humor. I'm a, I'm a kind of a doofus on the outside, but a sweetheart guy. And he said that whole, and then the, um, Tannenbaums, I think it was with the family that attracts, like, I just kind of boxed him into this, like, oh, he's a goofball comedian.

[01:31:28] Mm-hmm. Right. Well, yeah, yeah. Growing up as, you know, son of a goofball comedian. Right. Duo, right. Yeah. There's the, there's a, that New York Times interview with him that just came out, uh, the other week that it was really, really interesting. Uh, it was a really good interview. So, uh, another shout out to a good source. So. Well, anyone else have any parting thoughts on this? I actually, one thing I want to say is skip five seconds if you don't want to know the

[01:31:56] title for next episode, but it's goodbye, Mrs. Selvig. Yes. Yeah. I think all of the episode titles are out. Okay. There's a severance wiki that's really good. If you just search, Google severance wiki, and they have all the, the episode titles. Oh, I'm sorry. They have the episode titles up to number six. I just have one more thought. And that is, I think that we should retire the sarcastic good luck.

[01:32:21] You know, when people say, well, good luck with that in favor of the new phrase, enjoy your balloons. If you say enjoy your balloons and a condescending tone, it, it's just the sickest burn ever. It's the sickest, but it's, it's so beautiful. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:32:47] There's also on the, um, the paper, there's a whole thing about the Baird Creek bandit. Uh, and I think Baird Creek is the, is where Mark lives in that area. Did you, so Steve, I have a, I have a question for you. Did you, um, did you just go to Reddit to do this or did you actually screenshot and read it yourself? I, I, I, my second watch today, I had it on my, my, my, uh, well, I guess 65 inch TV

[01:33:11] and I just paused it and I just sat there and just, dogs just watched me read a newspaper, heavily redacted newspaper on my, uh, my screen. God bless you, sir. God bless you. Keir bless you. Keir bless you. Yes. I'm sorry. People within company policy here. I need a trip to the break room. Only I am responsible for my. Listening to Keanu Reeves. We thank Keir for those four. That's so funny. I thought I recognized that voice.

[01:33:40] I was like, who, where do I know that voice from? It's John Wick all along. Yep. All right. Great. Well, before we head out, can you just tell people what you can find on Properly Howard? Yes. Uh, this week on Properly Howard, you will see our coverage of the film cocktail. Oh God. Um, actually no, strike that this, uh, this week on Properly Howard, we're going to be covering the movie Moneyball. Oh, good.

[01:34:10] Oh, that's a, that's a good one. Steve and I both really enjoyed that film. Uh, you were both Bay Area baseball fans. And, uh, you know, we, we cover a lot of crappy movies, but every now and again, we will cover a movie. That's, uh, that's, uh, every once in a while, Anthony picks a movie. So yeah, no, that, that's what's going on. And in a couple of weeks we will, uh, cover a few good men, which was the theme of the season. Very cool.

[01:34:40] Very cool. Go check that out in the link. The ghost episode was particularly sublime. Uh, other affiliates quickly. We'll shift dust finishing up the silo season. I was actually on the finale. Oh, nice. Yeah. I subbed in for Luke. Luke wasn't feeling well. So I, uh, I, I came in, I binched half the season in like a week so that I could come in and do it, but it worked out. It was a lot of fun to record.

[01:35:06] Um, and she's got her book club and everything in her Patreon and supercast. So check out Alicia's links. You heard her voice. She's been doing yeoman's work over there. So definitely go, go check it out. Very thorough researcher. Uh, radioactive ramblings doing their red rising book series. Read through. And did you get there? They just gave us their update. Oh yes. I, I did see that, but I, I, I know generally what they're doing the next couple of weeks. So I'm just going to say quickly.

[01:35:35] Um, uh, also doing studio Ghibli films. They've got spirited away out. I'm going to always say Ghibli. Nobody's going to stop me. I'm not. Nobody's going to stop me. I don't care. I don't care. I'll go to the break room as many times as I need to enjoy your balloons. All right. All right, everybody. Go watch, go listen to their podcast. I need some salsa. Lore hounds quickly. We are doing this.

[01:36:02] We are, uh, doing a Nosferatu one shot already recorded coming out within the next week. We're just trying to not flood the feed with too much stuff. I got the long, uh, finale where we did a bunch of game show stuff is coming out soon. Um, and we've got Marvel's what if coverage. Yep. Got plenty of other stuff going. David, you're doing a live show soon. I think people should keep peeled for that. Yeah. Yeah. We just got that set up for Star Trek section 31.

[01:36:28] I'm going to be, um, a guest over with, uh, Ian and Danae on their live stream on Monday, the 27th at 12 PM central to record a reaction pod, uh, reaction. Well, it's going to ultimately be a podcast, but they, uh, they do live streams while they do their recordings. So they graciously invited me to join them. So I'm really looking forward to catching up with Ian again and to talk about Star Trek section 31. Very nice.

[01:36:57] All right, everyone. Be well. Enjoy your balloons. Fucking robe. This podcast is a joint production of the Lorehound and Properly Howard. Click the link tree in the show notes for links to more podcasts, our discord server, and ways to support the show. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Isn't the Frank or the beans?