Where the Stars Are Strange - S02E02
In episode two, Sara and Marilyn find rituals of remembrance, reconstitution, repair, and dramatic revelation. They also wish that Elrond would listen to Círdan's humble wisdom.
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00:13 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome back to Rings and Richials Season 2, where we will be examining episode 2 of Season 2 of the painting committee series, Rings of Power, where the stars are strange.
00:24 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Marilyn, the librarian of Riftendell, and I'm Sarah, the shield maiden of Rohan.
00:29 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And whether you listen to all of our episodes from Season 1, or this is the first time you've ever heard of us, we're delighted you're here.
00:36 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be following our pattern from season one by reviewing what we mean by ritual, and then applying those concepts to the different examples of ritual that we find in the series.
00:46 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: From this, we'll discuss how pain and decay depicted the cultures that they were adapting in their series.
00:51 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Now do get in touch with us.
00:53 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We have some great feedback last year and we'd love to have more this year.
00:57 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You can email us at rings and rituals at TheLoreHounds.com or you can join our R&R channel on TheLoreHounds Discord.
01:05 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll include all of that information in the show notes.
01:08 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to say that we are a proud affiliate of TheLoreHounds Barovian Broadcasting Network.
01:14 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Where you will find all sorts of interesting podcasts on TV, films, books, video games and other
01:20 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_01]: This second episode, I think will review our idea of what ritual is yet again for people who might have just come in to meet us.
01:27 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So, sorry.
01:28 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we mean by ritual?
01:29 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:30 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So, a ritual is a repeated action and it's the kind of thing that's usually intended to recognize and or bring about change.
01:38 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: it often has symbolic content, but it doesn't always, I mean think about brushing your teeth in the morning, that is, a ritual.
01:45 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It could also be a form of making meaning and that meaning does not have to be religious or spiritual.
01:53 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, yes, so we'll keep you points in mind.
01:56 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_01]: as we describe each ritual we come across.
01:58 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And then basically ask the question, what does it tell us about the culture and the individuals in that culture?
02:05 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So that could include the design, the intent, the music, both diagetic meaning,
02:11 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: in scene or non-digetic i.e.
02:13 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: what bear-mequery is written for us and what's the outcome of the ritual.
02:17 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So all these things keep those in the back of your mind as we move forward.
02:21 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're going to take a quick break now and when we come back we'll bring you the meat or the tofu for our vegan and vegetarian listeners without the quail sauce.
02:41 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
02:43 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_01]: While our main focus is on ritual to either the sinners' memories will begin each section with a synopsis of events, but please note we are doing full-on spoilers from both seasons throughout these episodes.
02:54 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: If that isn't what you want, then go and binge the entirety of seasons 1 and 2, and then come back and join us.
03:01 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So, we open season 2 episode 2 with, in Kaza Doom, we see the effects of the rewakening of Mount Doom upon the dwarf kingdom far away, as their system of lighting shafts is destroyed by rock falls.
03:17 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Gladietyl has a vision in which she plants seeds before the memorial tree of her brother Finnrod.
03:23 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: only to have them send out tendrils which trap Lord Kellogg Brimboar against one of the trees to become his own memorial as he recites the ringverse in black speech before he is encased in tree bark.
03:36 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Galatry will return from her vision to enter into the middle of the planning session led by Gilles Gallard to move against Sauron.
03:43 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She feels compelled to protect Kellogg Brimboar.
03:47 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But even though Gilles Gallard is also receiving visions of future possibilities,
03:52 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_01]: He distrusts sending a laddereal because your previous contact was solved on, has left your vulnerable to his influence.
04:00 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, a few things in there, then Marilyn?
04:03 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
04:04 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have the planting of seeds of memorial, then memorial gardens.
04:07 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember that from season one I'm guessing?
04:10 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I do remember it really well.
04:12 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
04:12 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And because we've now seen it in more than one elf from more than one elf kind,
04:21 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: an elven thing, would you say?
04:24 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do.
04:25 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Very reminiscent of the seed planting rituals that we saw before the battle from season one.
04:30 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And let us remember that we saw both Orandeer and Adar using this same ritual, which really, for me, reaffirmed Adar's connection to Elvish culture.
04:43 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
04:44 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
04:45 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's rather a lovely ritual, don't you think?
04:48 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So if it's like a memorial ritual, what you're doing is you are recognizing, affirming, memorializing the dead by planting life.
05:00 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
05:01 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
05:01 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And also perhaps a recognition that the ones you love are still living if you're at off.
05:09 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: but it is their fair that has gone to going north and so they're no longer present in your current embodiment if you will or whatever.
05:17 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm, absolutely.
05:19 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think they only plant them for elves or would there be a case maybe?
05:24 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just speculating.
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have an answer.
05:27 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love just speculating.
05:28 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Go read it.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We do like to speculate.
05:30 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, wonder if they would do a similar thing for mortals?
05:36 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a very interesting question.
05:39 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it would have to be a very special mortal.
05:44 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I could possibly picture Deod, memorializing his father, Baron.
05:51 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_01]: If this ritual had in fact come about by this time, I mean, don't really know when this was started.
05:55 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
05:56 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is a creation of Pandemic case, so they can, you know,
05:59 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: put it pretty much where they want to in terms of when it starts, but when we see adar doing it, that seems to automate that it's rituals been around for a very long time.
06:10 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Good point, excellent point.
06:12 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, perhaps this has been going on all along and it's just kind of escaped tokens, no, just so though, very little escapes tokens, no, just so I think
06:26 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because, I remember from the season one, at one point, Galadriel says, we had no words for death before Mordidoth kicked off his horrible activities and, you know, all the battles began.
06:46 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they had no word for death, presumably they had no ritual for death.
06:55 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Unknown.
06:56 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
06:57 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have a word for something that presumably you've never experienced it before.
07:02 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
07:02 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Because language often follows cultural change.
07:05 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't it?
07:06 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That depends.
07:07 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to create the words to describe that.
07:09 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
07:10 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
07:11 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
07:12 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_01]: This particular vision, however, was horribly perverted by sautons influence over this vision.
07:20 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Although there may be some hitching at some future truths in there as well.
07:24 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, is that the showrunner's kind of cheating a little bit for those of us who know Kelly, but in Bohr's future.
07:32 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
07:34 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Mmm, yeah, I mean.
07:36 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: it's definitely a foreshadowing isn't it of what's going to happen with Kelle Brimboor.
07:44 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that he becomes his own memorial as he recites the ringvers in black speech is really disturbing actually disturbing on a fundamental level.
07:57 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed.
07:59 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you know he is
08:03 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_00]: he is reciting the ring verse in black speech, and then he is encased in tree bark.
08:11 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
08:11 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
08:12 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's winter.
08:15 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very strange kind of thing that she's envisioning here.
08:20 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, she is having some kind of premonition of danger, and the danger is definitely aimed at Calibremble, but the idea of him being subsumed into a tree whilst he's reciting black speech is really confrontational.
08:41 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have to think that, because of very practically the next thing we hear is that Gil Gallaud is worried about Saladron's influence over her?
08:50 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I really think this is Saladron's influence.
08:54 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
08:54 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It ties back into an earlier supposition that I've had, but still has not been neither confirmed nor denied.
09:00 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was Saladron who originally wounded the tree in London.
09:10 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they have not, and it looked like more than your common and garden this tree is really old and it's going to die kind of thing, right?
09:16 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, yeah, the tree looked diseased.
09:19 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It was corrupted and in the same way, how in the world to kill a brimboer, learn black speech?
09:26 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, I mean, there's, I can't imagine there's any way that kind of brimboer does no black speech or would, you know, if he knew any of it, he wouldn't speak it aloud.
09:36 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so it feels like almost it's sour on speaking to Galadriel through her vision, which is very disturbing.
09:46 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_01]: A relief.
09:48 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed.
09:48 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: When you remember how much was vision and how much was ascending out to her to kind of try and direct her course.
09:57 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So lots of possible speculations here, but why don't you take us to Oragian?
10:03 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so in a Region, Halbran still waits, but is told that he cannot enter.
10:09 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Calabrimbora waits messages from Lindon, but we see that the elvish messengers were dead before arrival and the message is underlivered.
10:17 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, in Rhum, Karaskaya,
10:20 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The dark wizard uses blood magic to reconstitute one of the three white wings, the Dweller.
10:26 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They have no news to offer, but Brank tells the wizard that he is tracking the isstar in two halflings, and he asks to have his people freed from the disease placed on them.
10:36 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, to avoid the trackers, the isstar and the halflings decide to risk the desert path, even though the isstar still has not found his staff.
10:47 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of interesting stuff here.
10:49 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The really is in this scene, yes.
10:52 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Or the set of scenes.
10:54 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: The first thing that was really noticeable to me was the music being introduced to a whole new region, a whole new culture.
11:02 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of people might have heard this is being something Middle Eastern, but I happen to have heard this particular form of women's chant.
11:12 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It's from Bulgaria.
11:14 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And the women's group, Lebanna, that made a practice for well back in the 90s of going to different countries to hear other women's chanting and singing and came back and recorded something that reminded me of this.
11:28 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to ask Barry some day if he had ever heard this album or not.
11:34 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: In any case, highly evocative, very unusual with a rhythm underneath it was kind of Celtic to my mind and almost sounded like the illin pipes or something along those lines.
11:43 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
11:44 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you picked up on this use of this chant music when we were talking about episode 1.
11:50 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So clearly this is something that they are wanting to connect or wanting us to connect with ruin and the Eastern lands.
11:59 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think so.
12:00 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's also this suggestion that they've caught a disease.
12:05 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, in Western minds, particularly during and after the Crusades,
12:10 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_01]: leprosy was associated with malicious cultures.
12:14 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So if they're wearing these masks, they've completely hired their faces.
12:18 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to wonder, you know, what's underneath the mask?
12:20 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And my, I went right away to leprosy.
12:22 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So you'll see, yeah, because we don't actually get much in the way of detail, just that they are diseased.
12:30 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Something has almost like somebody has done this to them.
12:33 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The disease has been placed on them.
12:35 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I, that was practically the actual words that Brank uses.
12:40 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: If America, I don't know the quote here in front of me, but he asked to have his people freed from the disease placed on them.
12:47 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I do know that that, that is accurate.
12:49 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, gee, do you think that this wizard might have put a curse on them of some kind?
12:55 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Gee, do you think this wizard is a bad guy?
12:58 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
12:58 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this wizard is using blood magic, and that is usually not a marker of sweetness and light.
13:05 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it is not.
13:06 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually a marker of this is a truly bad person.
13:09 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's.
13:11 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: a type of magic that is often used for summoning as was in this instance, but also domination.
13:17 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you think of all the times blood is collected from an enemy to weaken them or to control them in some case.
13:24 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:25 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this reconstitution of a being that happens here, it feels almost like necromancy.
13:32 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, indeed.
13:33 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It does.
13:34 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: In many ways, though interesting to me, the wizard does not use his own blood.
13:40 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the blood of an acolyte, one of the certain, now maybe this acolyte is studying to become a white wing.
13:46 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Why I don't know, but clearly they are completely dominated by him in this in this particular instance.
13:55 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the vision of this reconstitution, it's actually really beautiful, the way in which it's done with the white moss, the feathers, the more fluttering around, the repetitive imagery of the swirling of these things until it condenses into the shape of
14:15 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: one of the familiar figures that we've seen since season one and it's the dweller, but what a beautiful way to do it, considering it's such an ugly thing to do.
14:24 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The contrast is really worked in my mind and you have the contrast of colors, you know, they are the white moths and yet this is a very, very dark form of magic.
14:36 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it was quite a potent scene here, yeah.
14:42 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
14:43 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Fascinating that they use white here.
14:47 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: As you point out, this is a really dark magic, but the overall color within this scene is a sense of white.
14:55 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Usually used to denote
14:56 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, purity, which is, you know, in itself, a slightly dodgy word in the problematic.
15:02 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It is problematic, but it's supposed to do no goodness.
15:07 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:07 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, not here.
15:10 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And even promotion, you know, when Lord of the Rings, we see again off the grey bee promoted to Gandalf the White.
15:15 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, now I wondered when I was thinking about this, I wondered.
15:20 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, don't have an answer.
15:23 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are Eastern cultures that use white as the color of mourning of death.
15:29 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, definitely.
15:29 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering if because we're in the east here in Roon, I wondered if the show runners were kind of pointing to that, but I don't know.
15:39 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
15:40 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
15:41 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't pictured it being that far east, but it could well be.
15:45 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm familiar with that in the context of Japan.
15:49 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what Japan was called back then, but yes, in Japan, you don't get married in a white gown because that, as you say, kind of it's morning.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what are you morning on your wedding day?
15:59 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope.
16:00 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what hopes?
16:01 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it's not good.
16:02 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't sound good.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a good start, I would say.
16:06 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we're given a little hint here from this ritual about how a magic might work.
16:11 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They seem to be implying that he's thought of magic only works if you have a
16:17 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: for a staff with which to enact it.
16:21 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't seem to me to chime with what we know of Magia in Middle Earth.
16:26 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the type of positive magic that Gandalf does.
16:30 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And he can do magic without using his staff without involving his staff if he needs to.
16:36 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_01]: On the other hand, we also see in Lord of the Rings that Gandalf is declaring Sautoman's staff broken and it breaks, but perhaps this is a reflection of Sautoman's loss of preeminence and domination and power over.
16:52 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: certainly not all of his magic is gone, he still has his compelling voice.
16:56 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he does.
16:58 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: There seems to be a very symbolic moment when Simon Stath is broken because it's as much about showing him as being broken as well as with his no longer who he was.
17:12 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And so much of season two is about the stranger finding his staff.
17:18 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
17:19 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Although he's now the east star, so at least we've gone that far.
17:23 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: In determining his identity.
17:25 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think that was the worst kept secret ever.
17:29 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wonder who this might be.
17:31 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to touch on that, need we.
17:33 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:35 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Moving on.
17:36 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's because I don't unless you have something else to add.
17:39 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think we're good.
17:40 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you take us into the next scene?
17:42 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I will do that.
17:44 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Backings as a doom, doors are speculating on why the earthquake, which has now stirred through all the dwarven realms occurred in the first place.
17:54 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it retells the king that the damage was caused by tremors from a recently awakened fire mountain.
18:01 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But the stone singers have been unable to guarantee the safety of trying to dig new shafts.
18:07 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They try instead to sing them open, but they fail.
18:12 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Disa says she is afraid because they can't hear the mountain anymore.
18:17 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Could this be due in part to the ongoing silence between the king and the prince, who she was unable to reconcile since they're both equally stubborn?
18:29 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: this was one of my favorites.
18:32 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's something I loved this scene and I know it's it's a scene that shows that things are going wrong but still the beauty of the ritual is just astonishing.
18:44 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely like you know this is my queen.
18:47 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
18:48 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
18:48 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
18:48 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_00]: A dozen times or 10.
18:51 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Or 12 or 200.
18:52 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Could be, could be, could be, could be.
18:55 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I love this idea that the dwarves have a way of connecting with the mountain, and singing open the tunnels, it's just, it's a wonderful idea, I just adore it.
19:10 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely is, and I like it because it does not connote or denote power over.
19:17 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
19:18 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It is like cooperative approach.
19:20 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:21 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:21 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The mountain listens if it wants to.
19:25 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: As the singers sing to it and connect with the mountain.
19:29 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like the the singers are communicating with the mountain.
19:35 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The mountain is communicating by doing what the singers are asking it to do.
19:39 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: If it decides to.
19:41 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
19:42 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember again from the first season that Disa actually says and the mountain will tell us where to dig and where to leave it alone.
19:51 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:52 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's definitely a two-way street here.
19:54 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
19:55 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And that enchanting power of song.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
19:58 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:00 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_01]: As a singer and musician, I definitely resonate with this.
20:05 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I noticed that while they were singing, they maintained physical contact with each other.
20:11 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, is that because they have to, or because it just works better like that, or do you think that it has to be three singers?
20:23 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my first thought is music resonates.
20:28 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that it's supposed to resonate with the stone, but I think the singers, if they are more than one of them, need to resonate with each other.
20:38 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you put your hand in the shoulder of somebody well, they're singing, you're going to feel some power, right?
20:44 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we could be that keeping physical contact with each other helps them to be more in tune with each other, literally, and figure duly speaking.
20:53 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense.
20:56 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the fact that it's three.
20:58 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Three is always the only important number.
21:01 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, yes, not just to elves.
21:04 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
21:05 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a it's a powerful number in many cultures, isn't it?
21:09 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.
21:10 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.
21:12 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So this there's something that happens with the song.
21:15 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to describe one goes down here because there's a problem with it.
21:18 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it appears to starting beauty, but then it shifts to what I would call desperation.
21:25 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the song we hear them calling and saying, where are you, where are you and hearing nothing?
21:32 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's got to feel frightening to stone singers who live with the stone and sung with it for as long as they have.
21:40 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The shafts open briefly and then they close again.
21:45 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm left with all kinds of questions.
21:47 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this due to their worry?
21:50 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it due to a lack of trust in the part of the mountain?
21:54 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it an inability to overcome a more powerful magic?
21:59 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
22:02 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_00]: could be any of those couldn't it?
22:05 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like something is going wrong with the natural world and that that is interfering with the communication between the natural world and those who normally connect with it.
22:17 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So whether this is a deliberate action on the part of say
22:25 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: the dwarves and the stone, or whether it's just simply that the natural world is starting to feel the shift and that something is going wrong and because of that, the natural world by which I hear, I mean the mountain obviously, is starting to close itself off.
22:43 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: to, I don't know, maybe even protect itself from what's going on.
22:47 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'm totally projecting again, but yeah, it could be any of those.
22:52 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm also reminded because they start this off with them gorgeous visual and map.
22:59 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: showing the tendrils going out from Mount Doom.
23:04 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, one by one, touching on east of these dwarven kingdoms.
23:09 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm now thinking of the tendrils from the first scene going out from Galaviril seeds and coming up, and I'm wrapping Caleb Rimbor.
23:21 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's quite possible.
23:24 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and also possibly foreshadowing the power that will come out from sound on from Mordor and affect the dwarves as they accept the dwarven rings of power later on, spoilers, spoilers.
23:42 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:42 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
23:43 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we're fine with spoilers.
23:45 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, we gave them their warning.
23:46 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we did.
23:50 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So, all of those things, I think that there's, it comes down to there's something wrong and even the traditions of the doors which have been in place for mumble mumble number of years, these are being disrupted because of what is being felt by the natural world.
24:11 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, I can't picture sound on as an eco warrior or even a nature lover person.
24:18 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking no, yeah, that's probably a no, yes.
24:23 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, shall I pick it up at Kyrdon's workshop?
24:27 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
24:28 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's where Galadriel goes to visit Elrond, telling him that the hiking has asked her to go to a region to see the caliber and Boris safe.
24:37 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: She asks Elrond to join her because the hiking does not entirely trust her ability to remain unmanipulated by Sauron, by herself.
24:46 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Elrond insists that by choosing to wear the Elvin rings, the three elves have become Sauron's collaborators and asks her to leave.
24:56 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of Elirons attitude here?
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems to be hardening against the rings, doesn't it?
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That word collaborator.
25:04 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
25:05 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's got chilling resonances, particularly to people who lived through World War II or have heard stories of it because it was the collaborators that caused an awful lot of grief and suffering in death.
25:20 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I mean, is there a bigger insult than that?
25:24 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
25:25 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's a word with a lot of historical baggage.
25:28 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It certainly is.
25:29 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this context, of course, you're thrown back again to the first stage and the humans who decided to throw in their lot with Mordegov.
25:41 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But,
25:42 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I wonder if the elder one of season one pre-rings could ever have imagined himself saying something like this, to go to Glodriel who could still be one of his best friends.
25:52 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
25:54 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that he asked her to leave tells me he still has this part of himself, which is torn.
26:03 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, please go away because this is too hard for me.
26:06 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to, here's the word, remain pure, from this taint.
26:14 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But you can tell that it does disturb him because the next thing we see, Eldon seeks Kidodon's Council.
26:23 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Kidodon provides examples of beauty that were created by far less than perfect beings.
26:30 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And encourages Eldon to foster humility.
26:34 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
26:35 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He points to the power of the rings saying that in Saloron's hands they could work evil beyond reckoning.
26:41 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_01]: For this reason, they must stay with the elves.
26:46 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It is wise to fear the power, but not to blind oneself to the way it could be used for good.
26:53 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They are on the hands of your most trusted friends, says Kiritodon to Eloron, who need either your support or your guidance.
27:02 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, or maybe both.
27:04 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, maybe both.
27:05 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right.
27:06 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I'm getting a sense of here is that there is increasing division going on.
27:14 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The dwarves are becoming divided, son against father, dwarves against mountain, which they're no longer listening to each other.
27:23 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we have the elves becoming divided.
27:26 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is clearly part of Sauron's plan
27:32 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_00]: portion between things and divide things because, as you know, divided conquer.
27:37 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, absolutely.
27:38 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this is one of his signature plays, isn't it?
27:42 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's, it's an interesting variation on what I remember from the text that the impression we received is that Sauron had no hand in the making of the three.
27:59 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_01]: although the general idea of rings of power came initially from him, if I remember correctly.
28:08 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So how much tape are we dealing with here and to what extent?
28:13 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But Kyrdon, I love Kyrdon, can I just say how much I love Kyrdon?
28:18 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He says it's wise to fear the power, but not refuse it to touch it because of the ways it might be used for good.
28:28 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can't trust your dearest friends, who aren't you going to trust, and you can't do this alone.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You just can't do this or something.
28:39 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Which, of course, is one of the core principles of Tolkien's world, isn't it?
28:44 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
28:44 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to fight evil, you have to band together.
28:47 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to come together, work together, because you cannot do it on your own.
28:52 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But what we're seeing increasingly, through season two, is more and more division.
28:57 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:58 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And that can only play into Sauron's hands, because, like I said, you've got to come together.
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to work together.
29:08 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And to be fair to Elrond, if we think back to his childhood, he watched his whole world be destroyed quite literally.
29:15 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:16 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oven that he was born under the water now.
29:21 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And he lost his father, never even saw him.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's never seen his father.
29:28 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Our father was away when he was born.
29:31 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And his mother is both of them are gone now.
29:34 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They're out of his life.
29:35 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He was fostered by two of the sons of Féanel, not ideal, I wouldn't have thought.
29:42 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and yet, yeah, they did look after them to be fair, which is more than they did for deals, sons, exactly.
29:49 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think he's also seeing the conflict that they're now having.
29:56 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That they have, they have seized this power and look what it's done to them.
30:02 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that could definitely predispose him to not wanting to have anything to do with the tools of the enemy, director indirect.
30:13 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can I can feel sympathy empathy for for both positions, but I come down on Kira Dunn side.
30:21 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_01]: They exist now.
30:22 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't figure out how to destroy them, then we have to figure out how to use them and considering the good they've already done.
30:31 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: there is more good that they might do.
30:35 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But you really should not be taking the position of standing aside, and I'm gonna say it again, your own purity, and leaving your hands supposedly clean.
30:47 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Because in the end, the only thing that helps is your own self concept, you know?
30:54 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:55 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:56 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So doing what Elron has done up to this point, which is to isolate himself from Gil Gallard from Galagriel because of the of the rings.
31:07 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't helping anybody.
31:09 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not achieving anything at all.
31:11 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So as Kira does says, you have to pick something to do.
31:16 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You either support them or you need to be there so that you can lend your guiding voice and say, you know, maybe not do this, perhaps do that instead.
31:26 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you're not there to do that, then you are contributing nothing.
31:31 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:31 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think back to the first thing, practically, that Kira does said,
31:37 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_01]: to Elrond when Elrond presents this problem to him.
31:40 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: The first thing he says, practically, is, you do your father proud.
31:45 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh, I felt that line.
31:48 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is interesting.
31:49 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost wonder if this is kiddo's way of kind of easing his way into Elrond's confidence.
31:59 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think this is the position that Elrond believes he is taking.
32:03 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: he's trying to live up to the incredible memory of his father, incredible reputation of his father, which I'm sorry, Eldon, but that's impossible.
32:14 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to put a second vote in the sky, because there's only one silver rail and, you know, it's
32:22 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting comment on fathers and sons and how you live up to them or not, how you make your own way, and the fact that he went and sought the oldest and wise it's person who you tells me that he, he's probably suffered from a lack of a trusting father figure.
32:40 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, absolutely, and you don't have the two foster fathers, but that's totally different.
32:46 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: There was so much vibe there that was not helpful.
32:50 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think Kiridan is wise enough to know, okay, I have to find my way into his confidence because right now he might bolt for me too, and then what?
32:59 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then gradually lead him towards a more inclusive idea.
33:05 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep, that makes good sense.
33:08 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Should I take us into ruin?
33:09 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please.
33:10 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because exhausted from traveling in the ruin desert without food or water, the three travellers find a well in the middle of the desert.
33:19 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The bucket is held in place by a stick which looks suspiciously like the gand in the Istar's dream.
33:25 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The raising of the bucket of water sounds an alarm, which summons the trackers.
33:29 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Under a flag which looks suspiciously like the eye of Sauron in white on a black field, the trackers charge down on the travelers.
33:37 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: The ISDAR raises a stormwind, but once again, he can't control it and nori and poppy are blown away as the staff dissolves into splinters.
33:48 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, is this magic on a rire?
33:50 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_00]: What, oh, yes.
33:53 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's all it's really done for this star.
33:58 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_00]: He can't control this magic.
33:59 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't really have a sense of how to use it.
34:03 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's all going awry whenever he tries to use it.
34:08 --> 34:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seems to imply that at this stage of his development, he needs a staff to help him channel and harness and control his power.
34:18 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_01]: and direct it, but notice I also use the world control.
34:21 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's think about this because we previously saw an example of what some people might call magic.
34:31 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The stone singers have never tried to control the mountain or the stone.
34:36 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: They have tried to work with it and to operate with it.
34:41 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But they never once thought that they could control it.
34:48 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll move back to Oregian now, where Kalibrimbor has created a field in, and when he takes it outside and moonlight to demonstrate, he sees that Helpera does still waiting.
35:02 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He goes down to tell Helpera until leave.
35:06 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But asked him in when Helpera and Perseph professes sympathy, saying that true creators toil to their knuckles bleed only to have the creations taken away
35:19 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: This Spain sympathy works in Calibrembord invites him in and brings out a bottle of first-age wine to celebrate the news that Halbren brings of the success of the three rings, which is the first news he's had.
35:33 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And Halbren's Sauron takes advantage of this moment to suppose they reveal himself.
35:40 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_01]: to kill a brimboard on the most dramatic fashion as Ann Natar, a supposed on-boy from the Fallen Order, bringing guidance for the task ahead, and he urges, kill a brimboard, to make rings for humans.
35:54 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm,
36:06 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: with this earliest temptation.
36:09 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: This could be a really disturbing scene for somebody particularly who has a Christian belief.
36:19 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
36:20 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Because goodness me, what pain and decay choose to do in the revelation of Anata and yet when we know who Anata truly is, I mean, it's almost blasphemous.
36:34 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's definitely visually very much like your presentations of a risen Christ figure coming down from the clouds of heaven with a son in the moon and so forth behind him.
36:46 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually had a few were tell me that their grannies had that picture right over their fireplaces.
36:53 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it was meant to be a picture of salad on lunch.
36:56 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: My late Irish mother in law had a picture of very similar to that.
37:00 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go.
37:01 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
37:02 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
37:04 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So all of the bells and whistles, you know, the violent weather, he disappears.
37:10 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_01]: All the indoor flames are extinguished and then blaze up again in the furnace, the furnace, um, Ruwitch and the taught enters and the sound on music is very dramatically playing.
37:20 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's too bad that Kelo Burenberg wouldn't hear that music.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was a really good hit.
37:29 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, alas alas it is dramatic irony.
37:32 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I like the symbolism of the fact that and that thought eliminates all the flames that were lit before by Elvis, whatever, and might carry some, you know, but official energy in it.
37:48 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: and conjures his own fire, which I wouldn't trust with more polls than you could count up, never mind, measure, wouldn't even toast a marshmallow over that.
37:58 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, and he appears in the furnace through which subsequent rings are going to be forged.
38:07 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, symbolic, much, very symbolic.
38:11 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but he's really got to overwhelm
38:16 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's done it, look at how he's done it.
38:18 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It's appealing to his wounded pride, you know, making him feel worse because he knows something that Calibremore, the maker of the three means, doesn't.
38:29 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And then hint it, you know, well, I'm not sure, are we really friends because I need to tell you something and it might be a little shocking, you know, it's a masterful act of a really, really horrible,
38:45 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: but behavior going forward.
38:47 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, absolutely, 100 percent.
38:51 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a very well-done scene, I think.
38:57 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The visual is compelling.
38:58 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're meant to be sensing the kind of almost blasphemous appearance when, you know, he appears looking kind of Christ-like.
39:09 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everybody I know commented on it, looking Christ-like.
39:12 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but we know who it is and he is the opposite of that.
39:15 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So that blasphemy feel is deliberate.
39:18 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel the part of Pena McKay here because they they want us to sense the wrongness in what we're seeing.
39:26 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but Keller Brimble only sees that vision.
39:31 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have the insight that we do.
39:35 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_01]: No, even the blue and white colors.
39:38 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, frequently associated with the risen Christ.
39:41 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, yeah, it's very pointed and they know their Christian imagery, too, of course.
39:45 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, yes, I don't think it was any of that was an accident on their part.
39:52 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And it does exactly what it's intended to do, which is to overwhelm
40:07 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, again, it's kind of pointing to Anatar presenting himself as somebody above.
40:16 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely above, and also in this world, God like, because if he is a Maya, as Anatar claims to be,
40:28 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_01]: set from the Valor, then that is, you know, the demi urges of Middle Earth.
40:33 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_01]: These are the sacred beings.
40:35 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I would have not, too.
40:38 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if I had been an elf of Caleb Rimbor standing, so, much drama all round and the music, of course, rises to the occasion.
40:46 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm, yes, it does.
40:49 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So you want to take us out?
40:50 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, finishes pretty simply.
40:53 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Gil Gallaud summons Galadriel to join the company to go to a Region under the command of El Rond.
40:59 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's an interesting dynamic.
41:01 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And Calabrimbo sends an invitation to all the dwarves to travel to a Region.
41:09 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's okay with thrings for dwarves at this point.
41:13 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, certainly looks like it.
41:15 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can see that Galadriel is not 100% okay with the fact that she is under the command of El Rond.
41:23 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, she is not and doesn't El Rond look like the cat that just swallowed the cream.
41:29 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yes, I think he he was enjoying that moment absolutely.
41:34 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, but that was just barking on his part.
41:37 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course it was.
41:38 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But
41:40 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as opposed, he's trying to regain a sense of possible control over the situation because he's probably felt a little bit out of control of the situation because of everything that's been going on.
41:53 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So possibly this is a moment in which he's begun to feel a little bit more comfortable.
42:00 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: definitely because he's been put in charge.
42:03 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He is the captain and Galadriel is supposed to do what he says, but also it indicates that Gil Galad still does not trust Galadriel and that he trusts Elron more.
42:16 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting question, isn't it?
42:17 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that's how Galadriel feels about it and one more reason to be, you know, really annoyed.
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I do remember earlier on, he's saying,
42:31 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: what I don't trust is that you are completely free of soutans influence.
42:37 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I trust that you want him gone by whatever means.
42:42 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will, you know, I will make use of that.
42:45 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I will make you so you, your skills are far too valuable to be sitting here because of some qualm about rings or whatever.
42:53 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And
43:00 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's an interesting, almost, you know, decision of Solomon sort of thing.
43:06 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, how do you solve this problem?
43:07 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, let's let's face it.
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll go out.
43:09 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not exactly in an enviable position right now, because he's been receiving visions as well from his.
43:18 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's been landed with a pretty massive pickle, if you will.
43:24 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_00]: The size of a large cooker can definitely.
43:31 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And on that note, I think we could summarize by saying that this, this episode had some very interesting rituals in it, not too many, but the ones that were there were fascinating.
43:43 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and a lot of culture pointing so that we get that sense of, all right, here's how the doors consider it, here's how the, you know, the questionable wizard in the
44:00 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: and how they might be enacted.
44:02 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
44:04 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And how that will affect all of them.
44:07 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: On the difference between entchantment and magic.
44:10 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
44:11 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
44:12 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope we can begin in that more as we go along.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm so, too.
44:15 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
44:16 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
44:18 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's it for this episode.
44:21 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Please write in.
44:22 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Let us know what you think.
44:23 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Any suggestions, anything else you'd like to share with us?
44:26 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We welcome your feedback at Rings and Rituals at TheLoreHounds.com, or on TheLoreHounds Discord server where we have a special channel set up just for Rings and Rituals.
44:38 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: On TheLoreHounds website, there's also a contact form and a voice mail feature.
44:42 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Look for the contact us link at the bottom of the page.
44:45 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We're aiming to publish an episode a week, meeting up to the first episode of Season 3, but if you follow any of TheLoreHounds podcast, you'll hear our ads and they'll let you know
44:56 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And please be sure to check out other podcasts supported by the Barovian broadcasting network because of our recording schedule, anything that I might name right now will probably already be in the rear view mirror.
45:10 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But just to give you an idea of the kinds of things we have been doing, the lower hands doing the green lanterns,
45:17 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And they did the house of the dragon, and of course, we will be doing rings of power.
45:21 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And have no fear.
45:23 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
45:24 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Film coverage has included the most recent Spider-Man film, The Odyssey, The Film Pressure, which was really spectacular and others.
45:35 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, check out our affiliates.
45:37 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_01]: They include Nevermind the Music, Dungeons and Do Rags,
45:47 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: who were famous from screen or cinema.
45:50 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And wow, there's a lot of them.
45:53 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of them that need to be remembered lately, which is difficult.
45:57 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Silo, I think Silo will have wrapped up by then.
46:00 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: The cosmic corner, I don't know if John's going to be finished reviewing those books at that this point or not, but check it out and find out.
46:08 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, all the things that John David and Elisia do on the main Lorehouse podcast.
46:13 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And links for all these things should be in the show notes below.
46:16 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Our thanks to our recording engineer and editor Bob, today we're in John our producers and to John for arranging our theme music as well as all those who support us along the way.
46:29 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: If you would like to support us in the podcast, find us on Patreon at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds.
46:36 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribers will get access to ad-free versions, as well as many other benefits.
46:41 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So until next time then, remember, judge the work, and leave the judgment of those who wrought it to the judge who sees all things.
46:48 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It is called humility, and it is difficult for most, but it is the truest form of sight.
46:57 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That can mean until we meet again.