Severance - 0106 - Hide and Seek

[00:00:00] A Music Dance Experience Don't pervert a handbook passage to me, okay? You are listening to a Howard Plus Lorehounds production. We continue our episode by episode rewatch of the Apple TV sci-fi, Severance. Take a look at what's going on with The Lorehounds

[00:00:27] at TheLorehounds.com and consider becoming a Patreon member. Steve, this podcast is inappropriate workplace commentary and I'm self-reporting you. To yourself? That sort of encapsulates that entire character. Oh yeah. He's sort of nominated himself and voted for himself. To sort of be the expert on the cure handbook.

[00:01:05] And I've known so many of these people in my life. I cannot, like in the hundreds I've learned, I've met these people in my life. They're the worst people in the world. Absolutely the worst people in the world.

[00:01:21] And you know, the handbooks vary from place to place but it's always the same person. Do you want to talk about the title for this episode? The greatest tragedy of our time was the morning the loss of the will they want.

[00:01:39] Miss Casey and Bill morning the loss. I love it. Hide and seek. I like these kinds of titles. I like the kind of title that makes you think why. Oh yeah, like I don't want to think too hard about it. Right.

[00:01:59] Because I want TV to entertain me, right? But I do want there to be like why would they? Oh. Yeah, why? You know. Yeah, you're right. Because the thing that I found most compelling about this episode was that moment in the closet

[00:02:17] where Dylan gets switched and he realizes he has a son. And I guess to be honest, it shouldn't be that thrilling because of course, you know, someone in this office probably has a family, right? Right. Lots of people in the world have sons.

[00:02:35] So it shouldn't be that surprising or thrilling or game changing that Dylan has a son at home and that's the part of the episode that I was like what? Yeah. And they knew it and that's why they named the episode that, right?

[00:02:55] Well yeah, because I mean there's a lot of fascinating things about it. One is you get this reveal that Lumen controls like you're not out when you're an outing and you're not in. I mean you could be.

[00:03:06] A Lumen employee can come to your house, ask for you to pretend to play hide and seek with your son, expect that you'll agree with that, take you into your closet. And then you can get a little bit of a surprise.

[00:03:22] So I'm like, I don't know what to do with that. What kind of workplace are we talking about here? This is fascinating because there's a lot that it reveals. One is that they can do that. Two, that Dylan's outing.

[00:03:38] So the only outies we've had any interaction with at this point is Mark and Helly. Sure. Sure. Outie. Well we have Mrs. Zelvig but we don't really know. We're not sure. It sounds, I mean the way that she had the conversation.

[00:03:57] It sounds like she's in any in and outie. She doesn't sound like she's severed at all to be honest. As far as we know, right? I mean we don't know if there's a bigger picture of severance going on here. Okay.

[00:04:09] But when she's Zelvig, she's aware of Cobel and Cobel. And it seems to be a seamless, like she knows what, you know, when she's going rogue or whatever she's got a plan. So we've seen Mark, we've seen Helly minimally.

[00:04:25] We've never seen anybody, I mean I guess Petey but we never really saw him as any. That's right. Maybe through some flashbacks but ultimately it's, you know, so Dylan and Irving, you know they don't, like they only exist to us as any.

[00:04:41] So I think part of the most compelling part of this with Dylan is yeah he has a son but he's also like he'd become, now his any is aware that he has a son. And his any's whole shtick, his whole kind of existence is speculation. Yeah. Right?

[00:05:03] His whole thing like I must be this, I must be even this conversation about like that's why he wore this nice shirt, you know and Helly has to tell him oh you wouldn't have known that.

[00:05:13] You wouldn't have known to do this like well maybe love, you know, transcend severance and so he's always about the hypothetical and kind of like he'd almost, that's kind of what like almost motivates. It's almost like that's his like 90% of his thought world because he's sort of doing

[00:05:29] this mindless task all day, that's constantly what he's thinking about right, the muscle shows that he's winning or what. And it's not even like you don't get the same sense of like longing. Like he's almost a certain satisfaction in not knowing.

[00:05:45] He's got like shorting your life, you know? It's like you can't tell me that I'm not president on the outside. Right so what we know though and this is I think something that is an interesting element

[00:05:57] of Dylan's character especially in how he operates with the rest of the crew is this has to have happened before because his Audi has had to have given Milchuk access to this any before. Yeah that's right.

[00:06:15] You see you don't get a sense that any of this is particularly odd. In fact him and Milchuk have a moment at the end where just kind of like okay did you get what you needed, you know so it's like it happens.

[00:06:25] So well at least even if there's no switch he has that kind of relationship with Milchuk where Milchuk can absolutely have access to him in that way right. Right because it didn't appear like this was the first time this has happened because he

[00:06:40] because you would have kind of got a sense of like how did I work like he would have had more like the Audi part where like if he'd come in and said look I'm from Lumen I need to

[00:06:48] access and like there would have been so many more questions but this was a he had he told the kid to go out it's it definitely appears this that and for so what this means is

[00:06:57] is that Dylan Dylan's any has also experienced this before Dylan's any maybe has been in that closet or didn't or some so you think that there might have been like a memory wipe situation.

[00:07:09] Well it makes you wonder because he's how come he didn't mention how come this hasn't come up in his you know he's eternally gossiping and trying to figure out this and that and conspiracy

[00:07:22] this I mean he would have told you would think at some point somebody that well I mean you know they can access the kind of guy that's not gonna blab right so that's kind of an interesting

[00:07:31] element so now you've added this extra layer of like what yeah yeah why is why if Dylan's memory is not wiped why is he being why is he quiet about it is there more to Dylan than

[00:07:43] me see I these kinds of questions but it always seems like there was always less to Dylan than me it's interesting because either it can have maybe it hasn't been this intimate before like maybe he

[00:07:56] didn't learn that he had a son before maybe maybe he was accessed in a neutral area right as opposed to at the home maybe maybe the access wasn't as like urgent because he didn't take

[00:08:07] something you know where is where so in this case maybe it was like okay it's going to be at home so there's a risk whereas maybe before they like Milchak would take the Audi to like kind of a

[00:08:18] maybe a neutral lumen side or something and access them and maybe that's maybe there was no real interest or controversy it was just like he just didn't know who knows right I mean but but the idea being that the thing that's interesting is that the Audi Dylan knows

[00:08:32] like that's yeah that's that's our like to me that's the biggest takeaway is that Audi Dylan is much more in alignment with lumen and because like Mark's not I mean Mark sort of we well especially now now he's has a parallel rebellion going on against lumen as his

[00:08:49] in he does you know unknowingly so helly and Dylan both now seem much more aware and in tune as Audi's with what's going on let me read the first storyline here so lumen security chief Doug Grainer calls cobell to inform her that he has identified ex-employee

[00:09:16] Ragabee I hope I'm saying that right as the one responsible for Peter's PD's reintegration Mark finds PD cell phone looks at the recent calls and then tosses the evidence you see the in this scene that cobell is has this almost shrine to Kier

[00:09:38] right and she's prayerfully repeating some kind of chant and no one's around and so that to me is I think is most supposed to reveal something about her true motivation and what I'm taking from that is she is devout she's devout to sort of the

[00:10:00] religion that's created around Kier but ultimately I think she has a level of cynicism about like the board and maybe lumen in overall or whatever and it's almost like yeah I believe in God but I know that Christianity is totally messed up kind of thing

[00:10:20] but I don't think that we could walk away from this episode and think that she's not a true believer right right and again I think that's the key right because we do know that she's by herself and we do now know that this is not a severed version

[00:10:34] after she has you know that conversation so we go okay she's aware she's you know at least not severed in the same way right right yeah so maybe there's another level or layer but there's so as cobell we know very much this

[00:10:52] sort of atheistic approach to life however she still is very much along like it almost feels like the guidelines and everything from Kier is almost I mean it's belief but maybe it feels a little bit more like corporate obedience to some to some degree whereas you know selving

[00:11:11] you know it claims to be kind of like have this Catholic background which you may but but she's clearly so religion or released a belief system is something that's obviously within her

[00:11:24] that's in her DNA I don't know a lot about this is a very old go ahead well and what's fascinating about this altar and we talk about this a few times is like when is this yeah right you know

[00:11:37] and it seems like it's modern kind of but this almost gives another glimpse of like is this is this a manufactured reality because of how old some of these artifacts look

[00:11:51] or at least are made to look these these Kier you know I mean that it's like looks like old tiny you know yeah relics of like a religion gone past but that doesn't that wouldn't compute right because this has to be somewhat futuristic in terms of the technology

[00:12:12] yeah I was what I was going to have a conversation about the technology a little bit later but this was the first time I realized that there's probably more affinity with Mormonism than

[00:12:24] there is anything else with this little cult of Kier and not using cults in an offensive way in this case but I'm thinking that both the sort of the colonial mystique of Kier sort of it looks like

[00:12:44] early America kind of thing and then of course you know I don't know a lot about Mormonism but I do know that the more you get into the inner circle of Mormonism the weirder it gets

[00:12:57] so yeah so I think if this isn't a direct commentary on Mormonism there are absolutely parallels here and she does kind of present as someone who you know thinks that there's something

[00:13:13] some kind of core truth to this that's worth devoting her life to she just she just knows that most of the corporate aspect of this is just bullshit she's willing to you know go out on her own she

[00:13:29] she and she knows that the board is just gaslighting her she she's taken in on upon herself to do what she thinks is right and yet she continues to play this part in trying to I don't know cow these

[00:13:49] adult children into submission I mean she's she really does present a sort of like evil second grade teacher right because I mean it's yeah it's this yeah this episode really seems to uh like again I think this is what we've talked about before like the more things get

[00:14:09] revealed like maybe the more complex the questions start becoming you know and like a lot of it still centers around though why right but like why does cobell selving why why does she do either

[00:14:23] if for one to exist how does the other exist and what is her you know because we're always trying to figure out what's lumen grand grand plan or what's their what and that's the kind of

[00:14:33] feels like the mission statement of the entire show now but then there's also this like well but is where what is she doing and is she because this whole this whole episode feels like rebellion

[00:14:44] right I mean that's we're you know we we see that mark is any is full on like yeah you know what I'm gonna you know this this rick and you know wisdom is is is providing enough motivation

[00:15:00] to want to go further in and sort of upset things and then and then you have marks outie I love that kind of I love that rickens book and the punk rock banner

[00:15:10] serving the same purpose in this world right yeah yeah yeah so it's like we have but so you see him like actively being like you know and it there's there's two there's a there's a few elements

[00:15:20] right I mean there's just the idea that PD came in and maybe upset some of this this concept but then he's also you know he's in a relationship where he's starting to have feelings again

[00:15:29] and so maybe there's a part that's like well I'm trying to remove myself from those feelings and and then but then we find out that you know cobell is has been rebelling to some degree or at least

[00:15:40] going rogue yeah and uh you know we see her mr. self reporting but he still you know finds his way in the in the plant room yeah he's sort of talking himself into like uh you know maybe touching

[00:15:54] lips could be something other than romantic you know right yeah it doesn't have to be romantic sort of a like a cure dry hump situation yeah yeah right uh yeah and then um uh yeah

[00:16:09] then Dylan you know then Dylan steals something and and that fuels a little bit on brand but then we kind of it almost flips at the end because then Dylan at least is outie uh kind of narks

[00:16:22] you know or at least is allows himself to to be a part of that right so it's like of all of the people that you thought might be a little bit more um you know

[00:16:35] more inclined to sort of keep these and again obviously the outie and the in here not communicating but like the Dylan as a whole is sort of a part of revealing what kind of is going on I mean it's

[00:16:47] and there's always this other mystery that goes along like how do they not know everything that's been going on because it seems like they know most everything but do they know everything you know they have so many things found why are they getting away with anything

[00:17:00] and I think that that's I think there that is going to be a problem going forward well I'll I'll say this to the spoiler section next storyline Irving and Bert admit their feelings to one

[00:17:13] another but the former admits he's not ready to commit to a relationship Mark and Helli flirt Dylan thinks that he's in love with Mrs Casey with Miss Casey um I so interesting that you've got these

[00:17:27] almost three sort of will they want they storylines of varying levels you know it's like clearly Irving and Bert Bert both love each other right or they're both attracted Mark and Helli both do

[00:17:45] like there is some kind of flirtatiousness but neither will admit it right and then you've got the Dylan Miss Casey thing which is totally delusional clearly manufactured yeah clearly so this is all in

[00:17:59] Dylan's head again with Dylan and the inability to accept reality right which which sort of makes the reality check in the closet all the more profound right you know even even within your you know any personality you cannot accept reality

[00:18:25] and I am absolutely buying the chemistry between Irving and Bert yeah I agree and which is kind of amazing because I feel like I've been watching these guys as sort of alpha male hyper heterosexual

[00:18:45] projections on the screen for 30 years or whatever right I mean even if they weren't portrayed in that way I feel like I've got a long history watching these two actors in various roles

[00:18:59] so to make me believe in their chemistry is seems like a big deal it is impressive and it feels pretty authentic you know it feels sweet it's so authentic that you believe it almost

[00:19:13] despite the fact that they don't kiss yeah it's like a you're not ready but just stay here with me it's it's almost like this it's sort of like old old person romance yeah well yeah right I'm not

[00:19:30] really into all of the the fluids and the squishiness but I just kind of need a companion right yeah old person old person romance you know yeah I mean because it is but it is like this

[00:19:49] I like this idea too because it's I think we've talked about this before too was like sometimes office romances come up just sort of by virtue of just sharing space and sharing this much time and like having having common experience whether

[00:20:07] it's good or bad and like kind of almost forming allegiances beyond something romantic and then you know maybe something romantic and come from it and then you take this other aspect of

[00:20:19] these people's only existence these versions of these people is at work there is no uh no play there is no well I go out and I hang out with my significant other like this is where you find

[00:20:32] this is if you're gonna find romance it's got to be here it's gonna be touching lips amidst office plans right so you have so non romantically by the way well then you have

[00:20:46] the other element of like how attracted to each other is anybody in in this world because your options are so limited and you don't and not just options of people but just options of interaction

[00:21:00] and and any kind of activity I mean these guys have no no escape so I was I was gonna say this is sort of like my small town third grade classroom when I decided that I might be interested in

[00:21:13] girls but they were only I only knew like five girls and so it was like uh I guess I'm gonna have to marry one of you you know right yeah yeah you just sort of go it's it feels very much like I don't

[00:21:27] know it's just like well okay well she's with him I guess oh boy I said that leaves her I guess I'll have we'll have to learn to love each other or I mean I can only imagine

[00:21:39] that it's even heightened when you're gay because what are the chances what are the chances that Irv is gonna find love in this weird office setting it seems like a thousand to one and

[00:21:53] he happens to find one that's sort of as devoted to the handbook as he is it's just like starcross lovers it makes me wonder if there is some sort of survivor-esque casting process that's happened for this place oh yeah interesting like like if if my theory that

[00:22:13] they are the experiment holds water then why the why were these people selected you know me maybe there is some sort of like well let's see when that you know let's you know you got people in

[00:22:26] lab coats watching when are the two gay guys gonna hook up right I mean just the sheer amount of stuff that we don't know about this show is baffling right yeah and it's in it's a credit to the

[00:22:44] to the directors and everybody involved that that you can watch a show that has it feels like it has a cohesive narrative right I mean like at least in terms of we know what and I'm hooked I mean

[00:22:56] it's not it's not like the mystery is sort of like like I felt like with Westworld like all right there's a mystery but I'm never gonna solve it so why am I sticking around right right in this case

[00:23:08] I'm almost rooting to not solve it like I feel like because I think talking about you know we always talk about loss when I because like I get nervous like don't like don't feel like if you don't

[00:23:19] feel like you've got a good explanation just don't you know I'm enjoying this this ride with these people and even if the commentary is just like it's it's not ours to know all right

[00:23:35] uh right so Devin has an awkward exchange with the woman she met at the birthing retreat and rick and book spouts misinformation about latin etymology you sure I happened happened to know this I have a little bit of expertise camera

[00:24:00] and it's all sort of like glenbeck logic you know it's kind of like well all right it's from the latin camera which is a device you take you use to take pictures and usually you're taking pictures of your best friends so that's where come come Rotary comes from

[00:24:19] constellation of three unrelated ideas I'll just put them out there um the interaction between Devin and this woman Gabby this kind of blew me though blew me away the first time I saw it

[00:24:33] because for me this was the first time I thought oh geez like either she's gas lighting her or this woman has had some other kind of severance procedure and then that kind of expanded all

[00:24:50] kinds of possibilities right because I think at this point we are still sort of operating under the impression that there's something magic about the building and or the elevator right like that's where it's all set up so the idea being there's a there this is where it happens

[00:25:05] severance happens in this building for whatever purpose yeah you can kind of convince yourself that well it's just kind of a quirky friend group that that rickens created and that's why it

[00:25:15] feels weird right or maybe miss cobell is just a psychopath or something but this was the moment that was like oh there's this this is so much bigger than I thought it was yeah and then it's

[00:25:29] compounded when you find out like oh they can just you can just access their any at their house and that's part where you're like oh okay so this is once you're once you're chipped it's

[00:25:42] it's just up to lumen so that becomes pretty pretty wild right and that is and that really sheds light on the the whole experience of why it was so odd the the exchange when devin runs into this woman at the at the birthing cottage

[00:26:05] and it's interesting that the whatever like you don't even call him innies and outies I don't know right because I mean when is this this person is off so did this does this person only get

[00:26:15] severed during childbirth and that version of herself is um things that the child's a different name or she her whole entire life is pumping out babies yeah and see when in that cottage she

[00:26:30] shows up she's shown up three times her entire lifespan has been a grand total of like 30 hours all in various stages of childbirth yeah so okay so if there's a little irony here that

[00:26:45] I never got until this episode is that the entire purpose of severance is to keep your work at work in your you know your your life in your home or your life outside of work but in reality what the

[00:27:01] severance procedure has done is that now lumen has total control over your home life as well right and so the so the work life balance is a is a complete lie and it's an ironic lie

[00:27:18] yeah work life balance is whatever work allows because lumen lumen at any point lumen can come into your house tell your kid to do something take you into a closet

[00:27:31] force you to give up the goods right so right yeah it's wild and it's a why then it it does now start and because I just just getting that glimpse of dylan's you know closet and and you go well

[00:27:47] so why why did dylan get severed you know like it's because then those because we we understand why my mark out severed we don't understand why heli got severed but she was pretty willing

[00:27:55] and she was pretty geeky about it when she was first going in and they seem to make a big deal about her specifically but dylan you know he's got a kid he's got a full closet so he seems

[00:28:06] to be doing okay I mean just before the kid walked in I could just imagine like he was gonna make a meal out of that closet you know he was he was gonna try to take a mental snapshot of all the

[00:28:20] clothing and you know whether or not it was me or whether it was it was cluttered what are it's full of clues it was full of clues and then of course the biggest clue of all runs in you know

[00:28:31] yeah and I love the the imagery choices when he's watching that uh Felix the cat cartoon it's like the first thing you see is the the lightning bolt cut the cloud oh I missed this yeah so the first

[00:28:45] image you see is this lightning bolt like acts like a saw and it cuts a cloud in half and the cloud is like a full on shape of a brain okay so it looks like the brain is being cut into it's great it's a

[00:28:57] great choice I'm glad you pointed out after learning miss Casey was sent to the break room for failing to watch him in heli mark has Irving introduced mdr to ond where he calls for the departments to

[00:29:11] work together to uncover lumen secrets milchek finds them and sends mark to the break room this uh slo mo walk to ond I I just laughed really hard oh yeah I love it it was like you know it's like you know classic

[00:29:31] needle drop slo mo badass walk and it's like these are just like four dorky office drones walking down the hallway talk to another department not walk not walking to the the the boss's office to quit

[00:29:52] no no yeah just not about to make a not to make a big reveal but just like hey you know what we're told we're not allowed to walk in the hallways and we're going to anyway it really this this

[00:30:02] episode really had me thinking like these guys are total children they're yeah even the ways that they rebel are very childish you know and what's what's the goal here the goal is

[00:30:15] they want to map out the campus you know yeah what are you thinking and it's so it is it is great and it's super effective and it's like just brings back all these uh it just it reminds

[00:30:30] like like all this like breakfast club you know and things you know that had all those kind of vibes and and yeah you're right it's like but that's it so talking about the romantic stuff like

[00:30:38] about like hey they're limited in their interaction so it's like they're sort of limited in who they can fall in love with it's like they're also limited in the kind of things that are like

[00:30:45] interesting to do you know I look to the point where baby goats might be a euphemism for sex why would we choose baby goats he's like oh no I believe you

[00:31:00] you Dylan Dylan is is like this this is like feel so much like his episode right I mean just well here he's awesome because he's he's the classic conspiracy theorist who knows that

[00:31:15] there's weird stuff happening with the higher ups he has no way to figure out what it is and his mind just goes wild and it's almost like yeah that instinct is right right the government is

[00:31:28] doing shady shit but it's usually to like make sure that billionaires pay less taxes you know it's that's the kind of shady shit we're talking about like it's plenty nefarious it's just boring you

[00:31:41] haven't done anything yet yeah it's nefarious and boring but it's you know we get we give the government way too much creative credit um the laminated how-to cards with some kind of martial art instruction I guess it looks like it's so funny because like it totally looks like

[00:32:05] workplace stretch you know placards that we'd have all around because there's like well we're getting a lot of people injured so what we need to do is show that we have CPR or something

[00:32:16] but it's like karate yeah yeah as long as you have those then OSHA will get off your back if you're like well no no if they're hurt that's on them they didn't do the stretches

[00:32:26] this is the missing scene from kill bill 2 where Beatrix kiddo takes the laminated how-to cards away from pi maze monastery that's right because maybe she forgets how to do the one inch punch or whatever that's right everybody everybody needs the five finger death

[00:32:45] blow or whatever it is but you know what I always forget the order so it's like having nintendo power help you undo the contra chico flashcards to remember to remember the the order yeah you know I take the bus I just put my flashcards just in case

[00:33:04] so the break room is an interesting element this time because we find out that the break room has maybe multiple ways of dealing with insubordination because uh Mark's knuckles oh I was just gonna

[00:33:21] yeah I was just gonna get to that all right so Mark goes on a date with Alexa who is Devon's midwife to a concert by PD's daughter's punk rock band and sings along with the anti-lumen protest

[00:33:34] songs so yeah on the date Mark has knuckles that look like they've punched something or someone right or they've been wrapped right that's interesting I took it as he he punched something

[00:33:53] I didn't hmm and you took it as maybe he was hit on the knuckles I took it I took it as you know like old school taking rulers to the knuckles okay hadn't thought about that so that's an

[00:34:07] interesting that you have the punch thing because it's like I mean I don't get it that's an yeah that's an interesting way to look at it too um but whatever the punishment was either he

[00:34:19] bucked against it yeah yeah and caused a punch of some sort punching somebody or something or it was a physical punishment this time as opposed to a psychological one because he's he

[00:34:30] really does have a rebellious spirit right and he's going to the break room and I I mean my in my headcanon it was like on the 300th time of reciting the confession he gets upset and you

[00:34:46] know hits the wall or something um but yeah I guess I guess they could have hit his knuckles with something huh yeah but anyway this all the way that this is framed it was whatever whatever it was it happened

[00:35:04] in the break room right um hmm and the what's up with the long narrow hallway to get into the break room I know you have to I mean it's it really puts puts it on you right you got a you've got to

[00:35:19] go and navigate this so it's like it's it's it just builds up extra drama as you're making your way yeah it's almost like it's like you're you've got to walk this long narrow hallway that you

[00:35:34] only walk it's only lit this way it's only this shade of green you only walk that 100 feet when you know you're about to experience torture basically so it's almost like designed to put you in a enclosed or entrapped mental space yeah that's fascinating and then and then what's

[00:35:59] it's interesting that he has to pass miss Casey so miss Casey so was miss Casey done or was it just Mark's turn I mean yeah I mean I I mean I got the sense that miss Casey was in there

[00:36:10] and then she as soon as she was finishing mark was entering but I yeah could have been like no go home for the day you were gonna pick this up tomorrow yeah and miss Casey has such a uh like just everything about her feels so blank

[00:36:28] you know it's so fascinating that she almost feels you know like an android well and maybe it says something about the amount of hours that she's awake because I think at some point there is some mention to a part-time lumen employee right and also appeared mentioned something

[00:36:48] about uh lumen employees that never leave right so you don't like so that's kind of the other part is like I'm trying to figure out what is on deep fitting where do some of these folks fit in

[00:36:58] like as the goat guy part times the goat guy for well what about this I had never thought about this before but what if what if you're severed and they just shift you from department to department

[00:37:11] hmm so you're there all the time how would you know you wouldn't know right right right you know you could work the night shift so miss Casey may have another job in lumen she might have a night

[00:37:23] shift that's so horrible imagine like uh gotta go gotta go home get some sleep go through the elevator and back to work time for your night shift oh man oh that's brutal and that and that would fit

[00:37:45] PD's description right people will never leave yeah so yeah no if she was if this is her quote unquote part-time job and so she's her only lumen hours are you know two hours a day or

[00:37:59] whatever then she would seem a little bit like a blank slate it seems to me yeah and so that's you know we see all these people with personalities and miss Casey seems to not have one I think we

[00:38:14] get like a little bit of a glimpse of it when you know she's dealing with some of their insupport nation um like there's maybe more fear as opposed to anything I like because I mean like everybody

[00:38:25] else is so rich with personality right I mean Irving who's the oldest one there like he still has a very unique uh you know now that you mentioned that I feel like there may be some kind of almost

[00:38:41] multiple personality thing happening with her because when she's doing the wellness check she's almost presents as a little bit like um like rigid you know she kind of comes across with a soft voice but she's she's very strict about the rules and then when she was supposed

[00:39:04] to observe Helly it was almost like she was a like a deer in headlights or something yeah yeah no she had she the confidence was gone yeah that's right no I yeah that's again it's like

[00:39:17] the more we start to to see the more we get it you know well what's great is that with a show that's this well crafted you would imagine that these choices are intentional you know I would

[00:39:29] never think well that you know clearly the actor hasn't figured out that person's motivation I kind of feel like every detail is so well placed that it I kind of have confidence in the show runners

[00:39:43] that these things are intentional right and I think that's what makes all of that and I think that's the other part of like when you talk about uh like the West road I mean ever learned this so

[00:39:53] I'm kind of checking out whereas in this case it's like I feel like everything is a breadcrumb and and I don't even care if at the end of the day I've just got a pile of bread

[00:40:04] and I know where to go with them but I'm just like because everything like you said there's an intentionality and and if one thing leads to the next thing great you know and I'm really

[00:40:15] along for the ride all right let's talk about this date now okay first off like I really want to believe that Alexa is a legitimate person like I want to believe that she has good intentions and not like an under undercover person trying to do something nefarious

[00:40:41] so just let's just assume that she is an authentic date that has interest in Mark S what does she see in this guy like yeah he's he's he's broken half the time he's a jerk

[00:41:01] he doesn't remember he didn't remember her he didn't remember her name a couple times he's keep talking about his dead wife like what is what is the appeal here so that's so that's again if we're looking at all these different you know clues and Easter eggs ago won't

[00:41:19] I mean there seem to be a lot more people in the outer world but if there's something to be said for like well maybe there's maybe this world is kind of small like we're talking about office

[00:41:31] romances and not a lot of options I mean it brings me right back to Devin and Rick and like what why does she like him why right this is just a little town populated with tons of women with

[00:41:44] bad taste yeah I mean it feels like that a little bit you know because I mean it's just it's an odd uh it's an odd one all right I want to talk about this punk rock band oh yeah so I feel like really

[00:42:02] convinced that this entire town is severed in some way like everyone in the town like Lumen is like like everyone from the press to the politicians to the punk rockers or have created have hinged their

[00:42:18] identity on an opinion about Lumen so this just seems like you know Lumen is the religion Lumen is the thing that you're rebelling against it's like it's seems like the biggest corporation

[00:42:35] like it kind of feels like it funds the town to some degree like like like Lumen's Lumen's massive it's not just massive it's massive in a way that feels very sort of fishbowl it's like

[00:42:48] there are punk rock bands devoted like their closer is a bad song about Lumen right all right so anyway I feel like this is the the best proof yet that we're dealing with a sort of a fish bowl

[00:43:04] town kind of thing right yeah it definitely feels like that that's all I have to say about the punk rock band okay Devin later learns at Gabby's husband uh Angelo is a Lumen backed state senator who supports

[00:43:20] legit legalizing severance cobell as nacelvig gets close to Devin and rick and by acting as their lactation consultant um I'm glad I finally know what the kelp was for rick and said the kelp

[00:43:37] worked the kelp is to bring you better luck as as you're looking for a lactation consultant I just I don't feel like I've got enough rick in this episode yeah so we have it's fascinating that she's a lactation consultant right and and I'm wondering if

[00:44:03] there's supposed to be if this is another clue um when we think of nursing we think of baby goats being nursing not ready yeah that's right so there's something almost makes me like is there

[00:44:17] you know is this idea of experimentation now coming in a little bit more delight and like everybody's baby goats different levels of readiness or something I don't know I don't know but I like that rick and thought it was necessary to interview several possible lactation consultants

[00:44:35] make it clear hey look you're just one of them he's just just wants to be transparent from the get go gotta love that about rick so all right so I'm interested I'm really interested in sort of

[00:44:49] the time question and so I'm always kind of looking at what kind of technology they have available to them so I was like looking well what kind of search engine is she using to search who her who this

[00:45:07] person's husband is and of course you know usually shows like this they will not show you google because you know google wasn't one of the sponsors and you don't get anything for free right and sometimes

[00:45:23] they'll come up with a fake search engine this time they didn't show you any search engine but it's interesting to me that the top results were like the cure chronicle mm yeah yeah which again no indication that anyone in this town

[00:45:45] has access to any information in the outside world right yeah so it sort of feels like well wait a minute is this this is clearly I mean cure matters right we've seen it we saw that she

[00:46:01] has a shrine to him in this outer world so he's not just like a looming thing there's uh you know and then so but it'd be for him to be this central of a figure even in a search engine right suggests

[00:46:15] suggests a presence so yeah and I don't know how far to take this because you know they have cell phones and so unless they're like they there's a cure sponsored by a company or something but

[00:46:28] but but they don't have smartphones they don't and they don't I mean so that's an important thing because there's the technology where you can drill into someone's brain while they're talking and see it very clearly with a high definition x-ray so there's a technology

[00:46:48] that is beyond ours right now presumably but their cell phones are old it's like perpetually 1999 in this world the computers are old that they're using in yeah in dr so it does suggest but like

[00:47:06] but then again there's this laptop right well and you've got and you've got you know advanced brain neuroscience right yeah the idea that that nobody has a smartphone is a little weird to me it is odd

[00:47:21] huh yeah I don't know I don't know what to make of that milchick briefly especially especially for an apple tv show you think that you could get I mean you know how many times

[00:47:36] you see an ipad or an iphone in ted lasso I mean good lord it's true Rebecca's laptop has its own credit milchick briefly wakens dylan's any inside his out he's home to locate a card dylan stole from

[00:47:55] ond leaving dylan's any to discover that he has a son and I think we've talked a lot about this uh bit already but I I bet I guess I should point out that whatever that stupid how to

[00:48:16] laminated karate card was it was important enough to take this extreme measure right is it just like any contraband yeah that's what I that's what I couldn't quite understand was that that's something left which is also kind of striking isn't that sort of pokes a hole I mean

[00:48:38] I understand there's no messaging on it and supposedly that's what the elevators can detect is is uh oh yeah because it was the image but you would also think that these things would also have some

[00:48:50] sort of detector that would say anything from inside cannot go outside yeah huh so it does poke a little bit of hole in some of the security right what the heck are these cards like is this sort of

[00:49:05] to foster the the animosity between the groups like just in case you need to use self-defense macro data refinement are a hostile force and it might be good for you to train your employees

[00:49:22] in this weird cured weird cure martial art or something right milchek was pretty rude to the kid you know very rude to the kid and then as soon as he swaps over again he kind of like puts on his

[00:49:42] fake milchek smile yeah so I think we get another glimpse of milchek's kind of his his psychology guy's just evil all right finally grainer tells cobell where regabi is cobell orders key card locked

[00:50:05] door to be installed at the enter the entrance to mdr later mark retrieves pd's phone and answers it regabi asks him to meet in person at a nearby university grainer follows mark it was really

[00:50:22] hard not to just jump right to the next episode no it was that this was very hard because it was really really finishes in a way where you're like wall crap oh man what a great episode great episode

[00:50:39] um do you want to do some spoilers here yeah let's have that conversation okay all right here's something that I'm trying to puzzle out here here it seems that most of milchek's information and spine involves like a video camera

[00:51:01] like he knows that dylan stole the card because he saw it on a video camera which is pretty deep yeah I mean that and you know he did it pretty slyly too so obviously

[00:51:14] they're watching yeah and rewatch cobell was able to find where mark and heli went in the office because they went into a you know that sort of abandoned office space and in addition to that we have several scenes with cobell spying on mark so

[00:51:35] so that tells me or maybe it's deceiving me or whatever but this severance technology can't read your mind it can't can't tell cobell what your memories are yeah it's not uploading it's not uploading anything but it so given the you know the final

[00:52:02] episode of the season you know they have like remote controls for some of these people right but whatever that technology does it is not a spying technology so I thought that was sort of an interesting and then it kind of begs the question like

[00:52:21] why is your neuroscience technology so advanced and your spying technology about what you could access in 1999 right yeah that's a that's a very good point because it does there's an incongruity there

[00:52:41] but yeah so then you go well well who's who's spying who's really doing the spying right right yeah yeah is there like an office how many levels of spying too you know right is like the the 10th inner circle you know the innermost circle they've got access to

[00:52:58] everything and and so you've got even the person that's spying on cobell is is being spied upon right like it's milcheck being spied upon as much as anybody else all right so anyway that's that's all I had for spoiler section did you have anything

[00:53:15] that you wanted to not really because I mean I mean obviously the marks marks interest in Miss Casey's well-being is is interesting how much height for somebody who seems to be being a little more smitten with heli you know just due to the office romance or

[00:53:36] with the next best thing he's still very concerned about Miss Casey and it doesn't make a ton of sense as to why outside of outside of potentially Dylan dropping a little bit of unknown knowledge which maybe love transcend severance I like baby goods is a euphemism for

[00:53:59] sex it's such great such a great choice oh my gosh another fantastic severance episode yeah no doubt things are gonna heat up from here on out isn't a franco to be okay david this is where we're supposed to choose a side green or black

[00:54:37] john my soul is as black as night your turn I am black for life so we're not fighting I thought this is where hbo wanted us to like pick sides and fight and stuff don't worry I'm sure we'll

[00:54:53] find plenty to disagree about on the pod but we seem to agree on one thing we both really like the show the politics the drama the lore it was made for the lore hounds and since we just

[00:55:04] finished recapping season one we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the dance of the dragons and with the season pass option in supercast listeners can get early ad free access

[00:55:15] to each weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections see you in the lore hounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot but probably positive takes the lore hounds house of the dragon covers is also safe for

[00:55:29] team green consumption side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore a heart conflict with itself and an inescapable urge to read the book fire and blood by George R. R. Martin dragon seeds may experience burning