Severance - 0107 - Defiant Jazz

[00:00:00] A Music Dance Experience Don't pervert a handbook passage to me, okay? You are listening to a Lorehounds Plus Properly Howard production. Today we cover Defiant Jazz, the seventh episode of the first season of Severance.

[00:00:25] Hey, if you're a Star Wars fan and you like Get When Properly Howard and The Lorehounds get together, David, John, myself and Steve got together recently to re-watch the Star Wars Holiday Special. Do a search for that by searching for The Lorehounds or go to TheLorehounds.com.

[00:00:45] Alright, here is stand up comic Steve Osburn. Steve, it's always a really effective storytelling technique when someone throws up after they witness a murder. It works for me every time. I'm like, yeah, that's cliche. I know.

[00:01:07] But I can just imagine that, like, I don't throw up a lot but I just feel like that would be my go-to move. You see, I'm so reluctant to vomit that I wonder, like I almost want to witness

[00:01:19] a murder just so I can see if I still have that same, like, control. Yeah, my go-to move would be to, like, spill my DNA all over the crime scene. That would be my move.

[00:01:32] I don't throw up a lot either but I feel like, you know, that's the right response. And I feel like I've seen that a lot in shows and movies or whatever but I feel like every single time I see it I think, yeah, that's pretty believable. Pretty good.

[00:01:47] I do kind of feel bad for the actors who have to do that. You think they're actually throwing up? No, they have to have something gross in their mouth, right? Well, I mean maybe it's pudding. Maybe it's delicious.

[00:02:00] Maybe they have, maybe the reason why they take so many... Then I feel bad that they have to spit it out. There's so many takes because I swallowed it again. Well, it looks gross. Of course you probably have these method actors who like, no, I want real vomit.

[00:02:16] That's right. It doesn't have to be mine. It does not have to be mine but I really want to experience the vomit. But it needs to be vomit. Maybe if it's somebody else's vomit that will also induce my regular vomit.

[00:02:30] I mean, or dog vomit, I mean like how bad could dog vomit be? They want to eat it immediately. Right. It's got to be pretty good. Yeah, when you've got to run to do one of two things, make sure the dog is

[00:02:45] not on like carpet, which is their favorite. Or like they jump on the bed to throw up. I love the idea that they're like, well this just prevents the splash. Like they're like, I mean I don't know what they're thinking.

[00:02:57] They lugged the vomit so much that one, they can't wait to eat it but they also don't want it to get hurt. They just want a piece of fabric to suck on later. Never works out for them though. And thus concludes our severance recap. Defiant Jazz.

[00:03:20] I feel like every episode gets better. Every episode gets better of this show. It's not like it had a lull or something. Yeah, that one was not great. I feel like usually with these things you have at least one episode in the middle that's

[00:03:37] kind of like, did you need it? Yeah, the meandering something or other. Rickin has trouble with laundry or something. Rickin stubbed his toe really bad. Yeah. Yeah, so what a fantastic episode.

[00:04:01] And it's got me, you know, it answers a bunch of questions and then just a wealth of more information this episode. Well Mark is meeting with Rogabi. Grainer enters the building following a tip from Campus Security and tells Mark he works with him.

[00:04:19] Rogabi kills Grainer and gives Mark his access card telling him to bring it to his any. Mark has an awkward exchange with Alexa. Really interesting choice to break the episode before this murder? I mean doesn't like a murder.

[00:04:43] Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea to have a little bit of a key character. Doesn't that seem like that would go at the end of an episode? Yeah, yeah, you would think right. So that's an interesting take because we just saw a lot right.

[00:04:59] And that could have been a big build up. It's fascinating that it opens with this kind of like action packed sequence where they just sort of a precursor to the bigger reveals that are going to come along. It's wild.

[00:05:15] Or the other place that they could have broke it is, you know, Rogabi says I put that chip in your head and I'm the only one that can disengage it or something like that. That would have been a big moment.

[00:05:31] Mark finds out that she's the person that put the chip in his head and then break the episode there. I mean, this show is really unpredictable aside from the barfing after a murder. I don't know.

[00:05:49] I mean, I guess I'm sitting here thinking, wow, I don't think I don't think another show would have done it like this. Be like nine shows out of ten would have ended the show at the big the big climactic dramatic moment.

[00:06:02] It leaves you wanting to know what's the meaning going to entail and then the meaning entails something really like huge. I mean, they kill off a pretty significant character. And I mean, it's not like Mark lives a life where murder happens.

[00:06:18] He's not like he's not he's just leads a very ho hum existence. So it's like this this all like for his Audi is like such a such a jarring sequence that he's just also trying to do while he's pretending to still be in bed.

[00:06:34] I guess the other way to look at this is that. This meeting was supposed to reveal something to Mark and, you know, reveal something to us about the nature of severance. But by killing Graynor, it's almost like, oh, no.

[00:06:52] And then you've forgotten why he wanted to meet with Rogabi in the first place. Yeah, right. So again, and then everything has to be disrupted. Yeah, you disrupted the storyline and all of a sudden,

[00:07:07] you know, you can kind of keep Mark in the dark a little bit longer and you can keep the major reveals hidden for a little bit longer. Yeah, and then he gets back to the house

[00:07:16] and now he has to focus on trying to just not deal with it. That's the part that I think is like the most is another interesting is that he gets there and it's like there isn't like he's obviously shaken up. There's something interesting about his.

[00:07:30] He just sort of copes a little bit. I mean, you know, it's like, is he, you know, what does the severance procedure do to somebody? You know, it almost seems like he's not freaking out. I mean, he's kind of methodical to our knowledge.

[00:07:44] This is the first time he's ever witnessed a murder. He's kind of an accomplice. He's I mean, clearly he tries to lie at first, right? He's telling Alexa, I needed a glass of water to you. And then she's like, dude, I've been up for an hour

[00:07:59] and you were not here and I was not dreaming. So it's all you know, but the reality is that he's been kind of weird ever since she met him. Yeah, this continues with what you talked about before, which was like, what's what's her deal?

[00:08:16] I mean, I guess this guy bring to the table. I guess you give a guy a second, third chance. You start to think, no, he's not getting any less weird. Yeah, but I hadn't seen him, you know, in the middle of the night post-coitus.

[00:08:33] So now I got a glimpse of that weirdness. Turns out every single time he has a wood knight saying he has to commit murder. Murder a stranger. So then he kind of tries to cover for himself.

[00:08:49] You know, a couple of things are going on in his head at once. First, he's thinking, I could have an alibi here. You know, if she's with me and she thinks I was here all night, there's no way I could have been involved with this murder. Right.

[00:09:03] But now all the, not only do I not have an alibi, this person is a witness to opportunity. This person knows exactly that I had left the house at this time of night and I didn't get back till this time of night, exactly when the murder happens.

[00:09:21] And so what he decides to do is try to sort of make it something emotional about the relationship. Like, you know, it's a big deal for me that we had sex and I don't know what to really think about. I had to go out and drive.

[00:09:35] He's clearly not doing this well. Right. Which of course, and... It's pretty on brand. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. And then the question is, are there real police in this world? You know, do police actually function the way police normally function?

[00:09:57] Or is this all kind of going to get swept into the rug by Lumen? Well, the thing I think is interesting is that assuming this is the same, the person he's meeting like she did, she was the severance, she worked for Lumen, right? Right, right, Rogabi.

[00:10:13] Yeah, so Rogabi didn't really hesitate to obliterate Granger. No, she was pretty decisive about... And you don't just keep an aluminum bat around just because. Right, so with that, you get the... I mean, you know, I don't know how much of that we're supposed to infer,

[00:10:33] but if given that she knows what the stakes are, at least either she knows that this will... Lumen has got that kind of power. This is going to end however they choose. So, you know, what difference does it make? Or she knows more about this world potentially.

[00:10:53] At least she has more information and more knowledge of Lumen than Mark does, certainly. Yeah. So it's hard to tell if she's part of this sort of... a rebellious collective and it's by any means necessary, but it was pretty casual.

[00:11:13] I mean, not like casual casual, but there wasn't a lot of... It was like, hey, let's just hurry up and move this. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Like time, you know? And you didn't necessarily get the sense that that was what her mission

[00:11:24] to meet Mark was in the first place, but as far as we know. Right, right. So, okay. Yes, so clearly she's in some kind of inner circle and who knows how sort of close to the center she is, but she's a neuroscientist and a pretty good one.

[00:11:47] And so she knows probably a lot more about Lumen than a lot of the characters we've met so far. And she knows that Granor has to die, or at least that's how she's acting. Right. All right, so what are the precautions?

[00:12:07] Is she more worried about Lumen finding out about who killed Granor or that Mark is onto the scent or that... And I guess this is kind of my point, is that she doesn't seem all that worried that like the police will arrest her for murder.

[00:12:31] I just don't think that the police are actually a fully functioning entity in this world. There's a lot we haven't seen in this world, right? We get a very, at this point, Mark-focused perspective on this world.

[00:12:47] And it expands a little bit now that we see more with Devon and her experiences with the birth and post-birth. But yeah, so it's like we don't know. We haven't seen this place doesn't just... Like we don't see cities really.

[00:13:04] We see a little bit, like we see maybe marketplaces. We saw some police take away P.D. P.D. collapses and dies, but it usually was shows like this, if there is a policeman he's going to be on the Lumen payroll

[00:13:21] or his chief will actually have some kind of relationship with some big wig in the city so that the police actually isn't functioning as police should function. It would be a very odd move for this show to actually bring in a different kind of authority into the story.

[00:13:43] An independent authority from the story, which I would welcome it if they did, but I just don't get the sense that that's the story that they're telling. Right, I agree. Do you have anything else to say about the Mark and Alexa or Mark and Rogabi plot here?

[00:14:00] It's crazy to think that that's not the big... Yeah. The big finish, that's just how we open up and on to the next thing. Just to get them the key card almost. You know what I mean? That's kind of wild what it does.

[00:14:15] We need to get the key card, so this is the best way to do it. Well, and it's an interesting thing that's particular to this show is that this guy witnessed a murder and you would think like, well, that's going to sort of occupy his thoughts today. Right.

[00:14:33] Nope, he's going to go down and really be into the music dance experience for a little while. Right. A little more unsettling. We're going to get there for sure. Milchuk tests the new and improved doors and then retrieves Dylan's contraband from the restroom.

[00:14:57] He returns the lemonade of the card to Bert. Milchuk explains overtime contingency to Dylan and attempts to buy his silence with quote, unquote, extra perks. Then he escorts Mark to his desk where he will now be safely situated.

[00:15:15] I continue to be puzzled by why so many of these Lumen employees are acting independently from each other. It's like Milchuk doesn't seem to want to consult Cobel. Cobel doesn't seem to want... They each seem to be running their own independent scams on the side. Right.

[00:15:39] Yeah, and even like Graynor was just like, I mean, he at least appeared that he was still working for Lumen orders, it feels like. Well, Graynor went to Cobel's house last episode and said, do you want to come with me? I'm going to follow Mark.

[00:15:58] And she's like, no, what are you talking about? It was almost like go do your own work. Right. Again, they're occupying the place of henchmen, right? Right. Lumen's the big baddie. We haven't really met... We haven't met the board for sure, right? Right.

[00:16:17] But all of these people that are kind of acting as henchmen are trying to do so as almost if they're like private contractors. It's very strange, very strange. Fundamental shift in Dylan's character. I think of this, we talked about the shift in Mark's character early.

[00:16:41] Hell, you kind of never bought into Lumen. Right. Right? So that was sort of... I think she was sort of integral for getting Mark to see the reality of it. And then we kind of saw Mark shift either last episode or the episode before.

[00:17:02] And all of a sudden Dylan has something to care about that's not finger traps, right? Right, yeah. Something... I mean, it's kind of crazy. If you think about it, it's like why are finger traps so important? Well, because that's all he has. Right. He has nothing else.

[00:17:26] That's what gives his life purpose here, is the finger trap. And so now he knows that there's more. It's like I at least know I have a son in a closet. Right. Yeah, and last time we talked, I mistakenly assumed that, oh, well this must have happened before

[00:17:42] because of the way that the Audi interacted with Milchek. But so now I interpret that as they must have just had a conversation and he said, I'm from Lumen and I need to do something. And he was compliant. But to our knowledge, he doesn't...

[00:18:01] Because at one hand, well, then maybe they made it so that he forgot but they didn't because they would have done that again. Right. Any version has to have it explained and kind of be coaxed to keep it between them and not to upset

[00:18:20] the rest of the team. So that sort of changed the perspective for that whole experience. Like this experience is sort of like a nuclear option. Right, yeah you get the sense that this was an emergency. So then the question comes back like

[00:18:39] he stole a laminated car and hit it in the bathroom. Yeah, he didn't even take it out. Like I thought maybe he'd taken it out but... What kind of emergency are we talking about here? Why does this particular card have any significance at all?

[00:18:55] I mean, these are the kind of things that I hope that they can pay off because... I mean, I guess I could have just imagined that Milchik's a psychopath. Right. I mean he dances like a psychopath. Oh boy. But oh my goodness. Yeah, why is this the

[00:19:17] break glass moment for Milchik? After Kobyel, opposing a selvic, models breastfeeding for Devin, she then entertains her with a story of lactating gonorrhi. Devin says that she suspects Gabby severed her memories to avoid the pains of childbirth. This character is so over the top. Right.

[00:19:45] So he wonder like, is Devin okay? Like is Devin like... Like she's using her breasts as a fire hose. Devin thinks that this is funny. Yeah. Does this change your feelings about Devin at all? Because clearly, you know, Kobyel is acting apart. Right, no doubt.

[00:20:06] But I guess if sort of your default normal is ricken. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, what are you gonna do? The face on the lactation instruction doll? Oh boy. Yeah. Another problem. Just an angry little doll. Yeah. I mean I just laughed really hard.

[00:20:37] The way she kind of throws the doll to the side. Oh I know, it just sort of chucks it. Yeah that's... Yeah and that's the thing it's like... They're little moments of comedy but are they also like revealing? You know, I mean it's...

[00:20:49] It just...it becomes this very... Just like surreal...real world. Yeah, if she was in my room I'd be thinking can we talk about your doll? Yeah, this is the choice. Why? Why does your doll look like a demon? I mean I would be more curious about that

[00:21:15] than the lactating Gunn-A-Rye story for sure. Okay, here we go. We're finally where we want to be here. Milchik engages in music dance experience with the department as a prize for Helly. Dylan refuses to participate and eventually attacks Milchik

[00:21:39] and rage that he cannot know any more information about his child Milchik leaves to report the incident to Cobel. Dylan meanwhile tells the department of Lumen's ability to wake them up outside of the severed floor known as overtime contingency. I think we might have talked about this before

[00:22:01] but Milchik's dancing is just... I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. Yeah, it's sinister. It's a weapon. Yeah, he weaponizes dance. I kind of knew that character was not to be trusted but he's really good at it.

[00:22:26] He's really good at it and it's very very disconcerting to me. Yeah, and it's just especially because the scene is so well constructed because the assumption is we see him dance like this all the time. They don't know that it's psychotic behavior. I like the various dance.

[00:22:49] Helly's not normally into this but even she's mesmerized. It's like he's a full body hypnotist. It's something to be said for like, Helly while she's kind of this grounding force of like almost logic in terms of like, why would you guys want to be here?

[00:23:13] Who cares about these trinkets and these perks and blah blah blah? She's still a child. In terms of her... It's like flashing lights, some sweet tunes. Basically it's an extra break. It's hard to imagine. What would I do if someone was dancing like that around me?

[00:23:36] I could see myself trying to bop up and down like Mark. But you're watching this and you're like, I don't know if I can keep up with this. I've never been to a work Christmas party. Oh yeah. I mean, that's essentially what this is. Someone's dancing problematically

[00:23:58] and we're just trying to pretend it's not happening. Not like this. This is like, you know, it's like, what are you doing with a machete? You know that? Yeah. I thought we were going to have a balloon toss. Why did you bring a machete to this party?

[00:24:18] I kind of feel like the fact that he can dance like this and he reserves it for this special occasion. I feel menaced by it. And then Dylan's eruption, I mean, he just bites him. It's interesting the choice.

[00:24:43] It really kind of brings us back to like you said, their children. Right. You know, I think last episode I said like Selvig is or Cobel is presenting a sort of evil third grade teacher. And the idea of sort of locking them in their room,

[00:25:01] it's sort of very infantilizing. And then of course, what is Dylan's recourse? He bites him, right? Right. This is sort of like something a second grader would do. But it was so great. It was so great just because Milcek, his clothes look like they've never been worn before.

[00:25:26] Like they just look like, I just took the tags off these clothes. And so to see sort of the blood seeping through the shirt like that was in a pretty sterile environment. Sort of brought a level of savageness to this environment. Yeah.

[00:25:49] And I love the scene where they all are like kind of huddled together with their hands on Dylan. It's a real like a changing tribe moment. You know, like it's definitely, it's galvanizing at this point. And it's, which is kind of interesting, right?

[00:26:10] And especially because we get more to understand Herb's galvanization later, but you get the sense that this is maybe the first time that even Herb has really like attached himself to a group. Maybe beyond just work protocol. Steve, in our younger days,

[00:26:33] we once DJed a 80s dance party? Yes, indeed. I think I was sort of like the party planner and I hired you as the DJ. Yeah. And I don't know if you remember, but we really put a lot of thought into the playlist

[00:26:53] because it was sort of like, we really need to introduce these children of the 90s to the importance of 80s music. Right, right. This is sort of, at the time it was very important, the playlist. Yes. It was very important.

[00:27:12] And what we did was we set aside a disc that only had one song on it because we thought if there was ever a lull in the party and we need to get this party back on track, we need easy access to a song

[00:27:30] that's sort of not on the playlist, but will absolutely jumpstart this party. Do you remember what that song was? I don't. I of the Tiger. Got it, okay, of course. Of course it would be. It was I of the Tiger. And I kind of feel like Milchik's dancing

[00:27:53] is a little like that. It's like, I have a party trick that I know will change the mood. But I only use it in case I really need it. This is kind of... This was his I of the Tiger.

[00:28:11] He's like, all right, I'm going to turn on the lights. I'm going to do a music dance experience and I'm going to change the tone of this room single-handedly. Yeah, and it's one of these... I mean, there's a lot to it, right?

[00:28:26] I mean, even though it's kind of a ridiculous perk, it's a perk nonetheless. And it's made in such a way where, okay, maybe it'll bring Helly a little bit more into the party. It's a little bit more unfold and works on Helly.

[00:28:42] I mean, even, you know, even Irv is sort of like, Irv is love sick and he's worried. They're all trapped now. They can't wander the halls. Yeah. So there's definitely a tonal shift. Maybe it'll be distracting enough for Dylan because he loves his perks.

[00:29:05] And then, you know, the ultimate moment, like this episode for Dylan and Irv, to make their change, to make their switch. Yeah, this is their conversion episodes, right? Yeah, and it's done in two really wonderful ways that it, like, Dylan betrays the perk

[00:29:31] and Irv, you know, betrays the sort of just protocol, right? The sort of the legends of everything. So it's really something, it's really fascinating. They have, and again, like children or whatever, they only have so much and they only have so many things

[00:29:48] that they can really gravitate towards and they have to push them both aside so that they can now form this team. It's rebellion. Mark and Helly scheme to find the security office. Inside, they find Lumen strictly monitors all of its employees.

[00:30:11] The overtime contingency is activated using two levers. Dylan offers to stay behind after hours to wake Mark and Helly up on the outside. A lot of details in this room. I don't know if you, did you pause and look at some of the screens and monitors and stuff?

[00:30:29] I try to look at some of them, yeah. I'm always a little bit reluctant to do this kind of stuff because I feel like, like, do they know we're gonna do this? Or is it like, no, we're going to show you the information

[00:30:42] and just assume that you're gonna keep watching. So I imagine that they imagine, that they think that some of their viewers are gonna pause and look and see everything on the screen. But I almost feel like as a storyteller in this medium, you're sort of flashing the information

[00:31:02] at about the speed you want it revealed. Right, yeah, and I think so, yeah. So how often do you feel like you're pausing television to kind of... Not a lot. I mean, sometimes, if I think of it, like if it's something like, oh,

[00:31:19] sometimes I was watching a Parks and Rec episode where Leslie Knope is making like an extensive, almost vision board of some sort. And so there was a lot of really good jokes in it. They didn't have anything to do with like moving the plot forward,

[00:31:35] but there was like, there was a lot of effort on the writing team's part. And so I got a real kick out of that. So those types of things. Sometimes you'll get that on the Simpsons too. It's like someone put a lot of effort into kind of creating

[00:31:48] these throwaway jokes that they think that 98% of the people are not going to see. And of course, those are the kinds of things that I'm interested in. So did you gather anything from some of the information on these screens? No.

[00:32:04] All right, so I kind of had a couple things that made me wonder. So we saw a bunch of names of people we don't know, right? Right, that's what I... Because that gave me a chance to see like maybe a little bit more how many departments

[00:32:19] there might be and how they're clustered. And they seem to be, yeah, there seem to be clustered by initials. Like there were, you know, like there, a Catherine M, a Melissa O, a Dan S. So one thing that I noted was that,

[00:32:36] and I don't know if I'm inferring too much, but there's an Anita I, and there's a Jason I. So I don't know if I'm inferring too much from same initial last name. But Anita I had a red dot, and everyone else had a green dot next to them.

[00:32:59] And I wondered like, oh, are these two married? The names are not in alphabetical order, by the way. Are these two married, which would explain the same last name? And maybe they've done something similar by separating them in the same way that Mark

[00:33:20] and Miss Casey have been separated. That's interesting. It's hard to say, however, on the next screen there was a Julia B and an Alice B, so same initial last name, and one of them had a red dot and one of them did not.

[00:33:39] One of them was red and one was green. So it makes me wonder, is this part of Lumen's experiment that they take married couples, they separate them and they see how well the severance is working? And the reason why I'm asking that is because earlier

[00:34:01] when Miss Velvig is acting as a lactation consultant, it seems like she's gone through this big ruse just to ask this one question. Does Mark think that he ever sees his wife? Right. Yeah, and another thing I think that's interesting is that

[00:34:19] why is she Miss Casey and not Casey? Like G or... Yeah, Casey S. Right. See, that's the thing with them, because there's Milchuk, there's Grainer, Miss Casey. So the trick for me with Miss Casey is, and now we're kind of jumping ahead to the big reveal

[00:34:46] at the end of this episode, is her moniker almost suggested to us as viewers and to the Lumen employees that she's kind of on that same level. She works for Lumen but is not severed. Yeah, but of course... You get the sense that she's working.

[00:35:11] I mean obviously she got sent to the break room but you do get a sense that like, well, she's not talked about in the same way. Like she's not referred to in the same way. Well, and she's got a different rank, right? Mm-hmm. She almost...

[00:35:26] Miss Casey sounds again like a kindergarten teacher. It's like you're being sent to the nurse's office or something. And yeah, you don't even know is Casey her first name, is it her last name? It's an odd thing and of course I think that narratively,

[00:35:47] you know, if her last name was Miss S, maybe that would be a little bit... Maybe that would ruin the reveal, I guess. I don't know. So, yeah, odd, very odd. So the other thing about this is that on one of the screens,

[00:36:06] there's sort of an elevator status. So they're monitoring everyone who goes up and down in an elevator and they've separated it by non-severed and severed. Mm-hmm. And we see that Selvig is at least listed as non-severed. Right. So, at least on this one screen, she's non-severed.

[00:36:33] Yeah, and that gives us a... And we could take it as its word, right? But like everything, we just don't trust anything at this point. Right, right, right, right. So even the clues that we go to find are like, yeah, but maybe those... Maybe those are lies.

[00:36:50] So, yeah, the red dot and the green dot were sort of interesting to me. Most of the employees had a green dot next to them. I don't know what the red dot means. Right. Interesting. Clearly, Mark had a green dot

[00:37:08] and they did not show us what department Miss Casey was in. Mm-hmm. I'd be curious to find... Maybe in the future episode, maybe if we do see something that has her name on a chart to see whether or not she has a red or a green dot

[00:37:26] would be interesting to me. Irved parts to O&D worried about Burt's safety upon arrival, he discovers that Burt is retiring and openly berates a non-severed mill check for exploiting the severed employees. For exploiting the severed employees. Great Chris Wackenstein. Fantastic. Oh, yeah. Oh, man.

[00:37:57] The Audi just trying his darkest. It's like, but so honest. But I don't know who you are. But maybe in some way, some indelible way. I don't even know how many of you... I don't even know how many of you there are of you.

[00:38:17] It's like he was just at the... Like it felt like such a real-time processing of something and it just... The way it ends with him just looking at his watch like, oh, time's up. And then on the screen it says bye-bye. Yeah, that's right. So funny.

[00:38:39] Really good, really good. All right, so fantastic Wackenstein and it made me think... I don't tend to think of Chris for Wacken as primarily a comedic actor. But if you think about his roles over the last 30 years, really accomplished comedic actor. Yeah.

[00:39:03] And he's one of these guys that you wouldn't normally associate just with comedy or whatever because of his early career, but mostly he does comedy now and really good. He's really good at it. Yeah. Well, he was always a great SNL host. Always fantastic.

[00:39:22] Yeah, even if he's just reading Q-cards or whatever. Right. Happy to make fun of himself. And I don't know, I guess I think... Like if you're a fan of the Dear Hunter and some of his early personas. But even in Pulp Fiction,

[00:39:47] you don't think of Pulp Fiction as a comedy primarily or at least most people don't. But his monologue in Pulp Fiction is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. It's the... And it's kind of that same approach with this particular segment

[00:40:10] because it's comically absurd in the context of what we're seeing and who he's talking to. But it's delivered with earnest. And there's a very... Like, it's a sincerity to it. All the things he's saying is like, well, now that I think about it, you wouldn't even know.

[00:40:33] You wouldn't even know. I wouldn't know. But it's like the most depressing way you could possibly address a group of people to say, I'm sure you mean a lot to me, but I will never know. Well, the other thing about this is that... Almost don't even...

[00:40:48] And almost at the point where we're like, I don't even know if I care to be honest. I don't know enough to care, but I'm sure if I did know, maybe I would care. The other thing about this is it confirms

[00:40:58] what we've seen several times in the show is that if you really want to reward someone who's been severed, you give them a tiny glimpse of their life outside of the severed wing. If you're going to go to the Wellness Center,

[00:41:16] Miss Casey is going to tell you things about yourself. Right. And that's going to make... It really does show that these people desperately want to know. They may not say it, but they desperately want to know who they are and why they're there.

[00:41:32] Yeah, because you don't know the purpose of even your job. Yeah, it's like heaven is real and things are happening in heaven. And I can just give you a little taste of what they're talking about up there. But the way that they reveal it is usually like,

[00:41:49] it's all pretty dull, you know? It's like, here's Christopher Walken's character talking about how he doesn't really know them. And it's also on a very bland screen and he's kind of sitting there and looking at his watch. This is kind of reinforced like,

[00:42:08] there is stuff happening out there. You can trust us. It's actually more boring out there than it is in here. Yeah, it doesn't give them... It gives them the knowledge that, yeah, there is a you out there that's doing other things, but not like...

[00:42:27] Yeah, you don't get their hopes up, but not like, oh man, I wish I was that instead. Well, and it's also kind of there to reinforce like, Bert is not dying, Bert is just going to a different place. Right? He's going to a farm.

[00:42:51] So, but you know, of course this is all very, very different for Dylan who actually spent some time with it, you know, very momentarily. But with his son, it's sort of like, much more than they wanted to reveal. Right. Because now that's all I could think about.

[00:43:11] Yeah, they're willing to reveal his walk-in closet. Not willing to reveal that he has a son. So anyway, and then of course Irving melts down. And that was sort of the last domino to fall because you after the last episode,

[00:43:31] you really would believe that Dylan wants to burn the place down. Hell, you always wanted to burn the place down. You've followed Mark along this journey. But I think up until last episode, you couldn't really imagine Irving, I mean for Irving, this place is like Utopia.

[00:43:54] And so for him to say let's burn it, let's burn this place down, it seems like a massive conversion experience for him. Well, because I think he realizes that they could do that to him at any time. Well, he finally has some meaning in his life.

[00:44:12] You know, it's not just that he's not just living to abide by the handbook. He found love. And once you found love, that's something real and all the rest of this stuff is just seems totally fake. Yeah, and I think he's also getting a sense too of like,

[00:44:35] oh, this is what happens if you're in subordinate. They're just gonna retire you. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And of course, we could bring this to a meta level like someone who's devoted their life to what they feel is meaningful work

[00:44:56] and then the company can just say, you're done. You know, what that actually does to people. Right. Yeah, let's burn this place to the ground. Again, another sort of mic drop moment. Could it end of the episode there?

[00:45:15] I would have been totally happy if you ended it right there, but of course there's more. Man, it takes its time to do the reveal. Yeah, all right. Yeah. Yeah, so, I think the owner is dead and communicates with the board via proxy.

[00:45:32] She presses her claim that PD was reintegrated and offers to share her findings in person. The board agrees and invites her to the Egan family Gala. Gala? Gala? I think it's Gala, right? I think it's a Gala. Have you ever been to a Gala? I don't know.

[00:45:52] I mean, I guess I would. I think that's what you specifically said. If you come into this Gala, I wouldn't know a Gala that I was in versus maybe a Suarez. Hmm. What's fancier? A Gala or a Suarez? I feel like a Gala maybe is more,

[00:46:13] a little more showy and pomp and circumstance whereas a Suarez feels like there might be, a chance for a handjob. Suarez? Like over the pants. There's absolutely going to be French sex workers at the Suarez. Yeah, yeah. But Gala there's going to be the paparazzi. All right. Okay.

[00:46:37] All right, do you think, do you think that Natalie who's the board for the proxy for the board, do you think that she's actually a French sex worker? Do you think that she's actually got it somewhere on the other line? I don't know. I'm always fascinated by the,

[00:46:57] like almost static of the board. I mean Natalie is in quite a position of power. I kind of do believe that there is a board and that they are on the other line. But what a power move. I mean, here's the thing. In Natalie's position,

[00:47:15] how many times would you have these meetings without anyone on the other line? Right. I mean, you could make anyone do anything. Right, exactly. So, again, this show is good at getting you to question these things. All right.

[00:47:39] Finally, after work Alexa visits a drunken Mark who scares her up by ripping up a photo of Gemma after she leaves Mark where he assembles the photo revealing it to be Miss Casey. Fantastic performance. Fantastic performance. Yeah. He just,

[00:48:02] he conveys the sense that this guy's a total douche when he's drunk. But just amazed that anyone would think that he's acting douchey. Right. He's so incredible. He's like, wow. Yeah, Adam Scott is really just such a great choice for this character and some of the subtleties.

[00:48:34] And you buy it, right? You buy this childlike rebellion that's going on the inside and you buy this drunken, depressed, just kind of hapless guy on the outside. And you talk about things that would like beg other questions. Like, and this begs the other question.

[00:48:55] Well, it feels like he's part of a big experiment, but who cares? You know, like who cares about him? Like why? But I guess that's kind of like the point, right? Like it's like, well, because you're just kind of a lab rat. You're a baby goat. Who cares?

[00:49:10] And so, let's just see. Let's mess with the mind of somebody that kind of, you know, maybe doesn't matter a whole bunch. So again, the question that I always come up with is like, who's normal in this world and who's not? Because Gemma definitely presents as like,

[00:49:31] she doesn't seem to have anything. She's not involved with Lumen in any way. She doesn't really, doesn't seem to care deeply for anything that's anything else that's happening in the town. She's like, she's just kind of normal. You mean Alexa? Oh yeah, Alexa. That's right. Alexa.

[00:49:53] Yeah, Alexa just seems to me like she's not that invested in what's going on with Lumen. So like she, yeah, it's one of these people that's almost apolitical. Yeah. You know, like, I mean everybody, you know, how many, you could strike up a political conversation

[00:50:09] almost anywhere and someone's going to have some sort of strong opinion, but then you run into people that is like, I just don't keep up with that. And you're like, huh? And then you go, well, maybe that's right. You know, and so, because I mean Lumen is obviously

[00:50:21] a big force, right? I mean it's a politicizing force. It's a corporation, but it feels like more than that. And, you know, you see the dinner party that we get introduced to Rick in and it's like, it's a point of conversation among pseudo intellectuals.

[00:50:41] But Alexa, she's such a bizarre character because like we keep coming back to is like she's choosing to give Mark all these other chances. And there must just be some slim pickings out there in this town. Well, she's almost like when we're doing Game of Thrones,

[00:51:00] you know, you introduce Sam Tarly into a world that's totally brutal and that kind of stands out like, wow, this person is totally bizarre because they seem normal. Right. That's what she is. She seems normal, but set against the world that they painted for us. She's the outlier.

[00:51:23] Right. That's good point. So, all right. So, we find out that Miss Casey is Gemma. This really worked on me first go around. Like you needed more, right? Like there's so much. Well, because this guy's primary, I mean Mark, the character's primary motivation.

[00:51:47] Like every, like you can't tell me anything about Mark S. That can't be explained by his grief for his dead wife. Right. So, it's a little bit like the end of Kill Bill Volume 1, well, I shouldn't ruin that movie for people. Anyway, it just, it's...

[00:52:09] Isn't that movie like 20 years old? Yes, and yet it's such a fantastic movie. Do we have to do a spoiler alert for Kill Bill Volume 1? Well, we do a spoiler alert at the end of every episode. Well, this one will be dedicated to Kill Bill Volume 1.

[00:52:25] If you want to hear how Kill Bill Volume 1 ends, stay tuned to this severance rewatch. Stick around. No, it absolutely changes something core to the main character's motivation. And now, I mean, I kind of thought Miss Casey was kind of a throwaway character. Right.

[00:52:50] You know, she's just one other person to make this office feel weird. And now I think about her totally, totally differently now. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And for us, you know, as we'll go into the spoilers part a little bit later, you know, we've been watching Miss Casey differently

[00:53:14] this time around. If you can pull this off, I almost would believe that any one of these other characters has a relation, has some kind of crazy reveal about them. Yeah. So shall we do spoilers? Let's do it. The gala.

[00:53:38] We finally find out that, you know, this sort of the first mention of the gala, which is going to be, I think the season finale? Yeah, I believe so. I kind of, it's been a while since I've seen it.

[00:53:53] I kind of forget, does Cobel actually make it to the gala? Was she trying to get to the gala maybe? But had to go do something else first. This is not our spoiler section because we don't actually know. Yeah, we don't worry.

[00:54:12] Hey, if you don't, don't spoil it for us.