The Acolyte – S01E08 Feedback – The Acolyte

[00:00:01] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod. But we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for The Lorehounds. And since we just finished recapping season one,

[00:00:38] we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene-by-scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections.

[00:00:53] See you in The Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes. The Lorehounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself,

[00:01:06] and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning. Hey, John. Hey, Alicia. Ready to record the final episode in our Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast, Lorehounds Acolyte season one crossover series? Absatively.

[00:01:42] Is that not Sith enough? Anyway. Because Hot Lore Summer has been scorching. And there are still three weeks left of House of the Dragon, but this has been a really fun series to cover, and I'm going to miss the characters and conversations

[00:01:59] it's been generating on our Discord server. Yeah, and you know what? You made me think, like, I really want to see an overly positive Sith. I mean, I guess we almost got there with Chimera, but yeah, I really want to see someone who's like Flanders from The Simpsons,

[00:02:15] you know? Anyway, we've got a nice sample of better opinions than that about the season finale from our Discord and a number of emails from members of the community. And we're seeing a range of reactions, leaning positive,

[00:02:29] but with different people responding very differently to the same story beats. There's a lot of excitement, of course, for our cave creeper cameo. Yeah, I was very excited to see that. That's a character that, I mean, do you know the first Star Wars book

[00:02:43] I ever read was Darth Plagueis? Oh, really? Okay. Because it fascinated me so much that I was like, I want to know more about that. Yeah. The problem is I jumped in before I knew anything else about Legends, before I'd done anything else before,

[00:02:56] like other than watch the movies. And I think that that is not a book that you should jump right into without any other stuff because it just has so many references to like the old Republican, I guess not high Republicans,

[00:03:07] that wasn't out yet, but the old Republic novels. And it was a lot. It was a lot. I remember thinking like, I don't know if I can handle Star Wars books. This is intense. Yeah, because it was even then it was designed to bridge the era.

[00:03:18] So, I mean, I know that people are upset about the extended universe being made Legends now, but and that's one of the books, I think that is closer to canon. And we've seen Leslie Hedlund really fought for this version of Darth Plagueis to come onto our screen.

[00:03:34] So I think we might get more from that book, but I can understand why they wanted to wipe this slate clean because there is a lot of weird Star Wars fiction. That's one of the good ones,

[00:03:44] but there's a lot of like fan fiction basically that I can understand. Filoni and Lucas and stuff are just like, no, I don't want to deal with this. I want to write our own lore. Right. Yeah, I get that.

[00:03:54] I mean, there is the controversy with the werewolves too. The controversy with the werewolves? Yeah. Well, they didn't want to see the moon. Ah, I was going to say. The next episode on the Canon Timeline podcast feed

[00:04:09] is going to be Marilyn and I talking about some myths of the Old Republic and one of them is about werewolves. Oh, really? Yeah. That's fun. For the record though, this episode was recorded July 21st, 2024. And yeah, John, we're glad to have you back.

[00:04:25] We didn't get a chance to get your hot takes on the finale. So what did you think about the episode and the season as a whole? Well, my hot take on your podcast was that it was excellent. Thank you.

[00:04:34] And I don't even think it would have benefited from me being there because I listened to it. I was like, oh, I wish I could raise this question. Then you were like, so then this question was raised and it was answered this way. And I was like, what?

[00:04:45] She's good. This person's good. I live on the interwebs. I know what the people are saying. So I had mixed feelings about this episode, but mostly positive. I'll say that. I did really like it. I thought it was a satisfying conclusion to a lot of arcs.

[00:05:05] There were certain decisions. I'm just going to get the negative out of the way. Certain decisions really baffled me. I didn't understand why they needed to leave anybody back when they had May, Osha and Chimera. That was very confusing to me.

[00:05:19] I understood why they had to wipe her memory after that, but it just felt that felt like I could feel the hand of the writer. You know, it was like, okay, I'm going to make a plot device to make Osha.

[00:05:27] It's to make me innocent all of a sudden. Yeah. I mean, I guess he did say that he was going to kill me a lot. So I don't know. Like I said, in my recap,

[00:05:37] I don't know if I think he really meant that because he seems to have a fondness for her, but he did keep saying he was going to kill her and go after her in ways that looked like he might.

[00:05:46] So I could understand from the girl's perspectives and now, yeah, I can understand from his perspective. He's like, I only need one of you. And Osha is clearly the better pick, but does he only need one of them? Because the whole thing was he wanted to, you know,

[00:05:58] if he's, if he is the apprentice of Vegas or even if he's not like this idea that there are two people of the same thing. Like if you're a Sith and you want power, isn't that fascinating?

[00:06:09] And wouldn't you want to see the two of them together and see if you could train them to be this like crazy powerhouse? I mean, maybe, I don't know. So he, he had a response on his face at the camera flash too.

[00:06:22] When Saul said the thing about them being the same person split and, you know, the circumstances of their conception. And I couldn't tell if that was him learning that information or if him, that was him being surprised at Saul knew that information.

[00:06:37] I took it as him learning that information. I don't know if he's necessarily thinking that far. Like I said in the episode that, that I did for the main breakdown, I am less in a fan of like, Oh, he's the, he's the puppet or the, you know,

[00:06:56] the apprentice of plague is who's already doing his bidding. And I think more that the plague is, is going to be very interested in these girls for different reasons and kind of, that's my take on it. Of course. Yeah. Open to interpretation until told otherwise. Okay. Okay.

[00:07:13] Interesting. That was really the only one. That was really the only critique that I had that I didn't sell it on over time. I still think that that was a little like hand wavy of why we had to be there, but I don't want to linger on that.

[00:07:25] And it's certainly not a jump the gap moment. Like we, like we had in a different series where it like, like, like the decision on that other series really like brought the entire season down for me.

[00:07:37] Yeah. We can say it's a soaker. We won't say what it is, but yeah. Okay. The, the decision here was just like, huh? I would have done that differently. You know what I mean? Of course me being a person who's never run a show. And so, yeah.

[00:07:50] Anyway, are you, are you not team Ocean mirror? It's fine. It's fine. I think, you know, what I've come to realize is a show runner could convince me of probably like anything being worthwhile if they do it right. The same way.

[00:08:06] I think the most impressive thing that Headland did for me was making root for chime here being the Sith instead of, you know, a unmasked third party. Instead of wanting to kill him for killing the other favorites. Yeah.

[00:08:21] Right. Right. And, and, and to make me kind of be charmed by him, right? Like I'm like, Oh, well kind of see where she's going with this. But yeah. So the other thing that kind of confused me, but I softened on was why soul just like dug in.

[00:08:38] You've like really dug in on, Oh, this was the right thing to do because it felt not quite consistent with the rest of his statements throughout the season. Okay. Yeah. I mean, to me, I saw a consistent pattern of him wanting to like at the moment after,

[00:08:56] right after it happened, he wanted to like, let's go to the Jedi confound council and just like say what happened. And Indara is the one who put this idea in his brain. Well, actually the best thing for OSHA would be if we lied just a little bit

[00:09:11] about it. And then that has the chain effect of him placing a lie of sorts into OSHA's brain that all of this was her sister's fault. And yeah, we just see that paying it forward. And he has now spent the last 16 years in his mind,

[00:09:29] being like, I did the right thing. I did the right thing. I did the right thing. And now he's like, Oh shit, I did the right thing. No, come on. I did the right thing. You know, he's clinging to that self validation.

[00:09:39] And it kind of causes him to go a little, a snap a little. I do have to admit this is one area where I'm not, I'm sick of like the, Oh, we want longer episodes. Of course we want longer episodes.

[00:09:50] But this is one area where there could have been more breathing room for that transition. I agree. Yeah. It, it, it, it, it did feel a little bit rushed at the same time, I guess.

[00:10:00] One of the other things that would make it make sense is this is the first time he's seen the scene of his crime in 16 years. Right. And so this could be a trauma response to. Well, and this is also, I think he really did think may was dead.

[00:10:17] And so he's now that may is back that also reawakens all of this. Right. And so, and his buddies are dying. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I was just looking for my discord message because I didn't think I think

[00:10:28] of the thought again, because it's four in the morning where I am. I wrote to, uh, to Marilyn because Marilyn was, you know, talking about what, what was in soul's head there. I, I wrote, when your whole philosophy is about balance and control over emotion,

[00:10:43] it's hard to accept you lost control. He's had to bend over backwards to fit that. And so I think that's a good thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And how are you feeling about how Vernestra handled this situation? Uh, I think it's very much a lead into the next era.

[00:11:00] I think it's, it's just this idea that we as the Jedi know better is the, the hubris that really makes you an easy target. And so I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. Yeah. And I, and I like it a lot.

[00:11:16] I like her doing this because especially since you've told me, and I haven't read it yet, but since you told me that she's really a hero during the era one, three, uh, high Republic novels, I, I am very impressed that headland thought to say, okay,

[00:11:32] here's somebody you admire now. Here's her making a colossal fuck up. Yeah. And I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you are, you're reading era one, right? I am. Although I've slowed down a little bit cause I wasn't feeling well and then I had company.

[00:11:48] So this, there's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. But yeah, I think she, I think it's mostly like two YA novels where her story is. Okay. I forget which is because as we talked about it, sometimes it feels a little arbitrary, which is why a,

[00:12:03] which is junior, which is adult. Uh, it seems to me. Based on the characters and she's a teenager, I think the YA novels, it seems like the junior middle grade novels actually have an identity like that is built for a chapter book for a kid. Right.

[00:12:18] I mean, I've been reading the junior stuff and yeah, I guess it's like, uh, you know, it's maybe a little simpler language, maybe less brutal, a little shorter. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I did notice that there's like,

[00:12:34] like the YA novels tend to be like a hundred pages shorter than the adult and the junior or slightly shorter than like another hundred pages short or something. It's funny actually. The um,

[00:12:43] the longest book in era two is a YA novel is the last YA novel by like a hundred pages. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I have to admit I have not been paying attention to all the pages and I don't have these on paper. I have them digital.

[00:12:57] Oh, I do too. I have the Kindle versions, but they give me the little fake page numbers. No, that's true. I do pay attention to that while I'm reading and then immediately forget. Fair enough. But yeah, it's without like the book with on your table,

[00:13:11] it's hard to conceptualize book versus book. Right. Yeah. But what I have noticed is yeah, it seems to be based on the age of the protagonists in a lot of cases. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that seems to be the whole thing anyway.

[00:13:26] I want to get into what I liked about the episode quick before we go into feedback so that I don't end on a downer note. Okay. Go for it. First of all, the choreography in the series I think is. Mm. I, I want to say,

[00:13:39] I want to say the best, but I think I still have one lightsaber duel that I can't talk about yet that I think is from the better, but from the prequel trilogy and I think it's because of emotion though.

[00:13:50] I think the choreography in this season was the best in star Wars period. For me, the, the battles, the sequence of battles that took place in episode five is now my favorite in all of star Wars. Okay. Yeah. That was really great.

[00:14:08] My second favorite comes from an animated series we'll watch later. Okay. Yeah. I'm, I guess I'm strictly doing live action, but the, the soul came your duel. I honestly thought that that was like, I thought the episode five stuff was really great. Don't get me wrong. Right. Right.

[00:14:24] Your duel where really I thought took it to the next level in terms of like the way that they would skid across the floor to get away from each other was just something that I feel like we've seen in animated stuff that has never

[00:14:37] really been brought to life in live action because it's hard to do. Right. And it worked, like it worked. It felt like these two mystical beings having this like God like battle. And that was awesome. That is what I want from Jedi. Right. Right.

[00:14:53] I think it's just appropriate because obviously what we see set later in the timeline is a bit more basic. And it, but that does make sense in terms of lore context, because now we're looking at something taking place in the height of the Jedi when they're training properly.

[00:15:07] And, you know, later on we just have kind of like vagabonds, the remnants who are doing their best. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's funny because you see the fandom menace out there trying to like find anything they dislike about the show. Right. And even them I've seen go,

[00:15:23] well, the choreography in the show is really good though. It's funny. It's funny. They're like, well, fine. I'll say the choreography is good, but also like think about first of all, I would put the dialogue in the show against anything George Lucas ever wrote. Absolutely. But the,

[00:15:39] the lightsaber wise, like you think about the original trilogy, it's literally like two people just like holding a stick in the air and like tapping it against the other person's stick. Like that's, that's what it is like guys, let's be honest.

[00:15:51] The lightsabers in the original trilogy were not that interesting. They were interesting because they were new. They were not interesting because they did interesting things with it. With the choreo. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely something. And I think that is an, because of the prequel effect,

[00:16:07] you know, when they did the star was star Wars prequels, they were obviously making them like 30 years or so after the originals, you know, VFX had, uh, progressed a lot and just filmmaking in general have progressed a lot. So they look a lot shinier and new.

[00:16:23] So you have this interesting situation where they needed to create the high Republic in star Wars lore to explain why are better and shinier in the past than later on. Right? Right. What did you anyway, what'd you think of cameos? Of the cameos? Oh, Yoda.

[00:16:43] That's what you're talking about. Sissy cave man and Yoda. Yeah. Somebody said that's not Yoda. That's yet all after on a bad hair day. Don't talk about my girl like that. I would be okay if that was the only time we saw Yoda in the whole series.

[00:17:01] Like if, if we have a season two and I hope we do, I kind of hope he's not super involved because he does seem to be really hands off throughout the whole higher public era. Right. And I think that would make sense. Yeah. I mean,

[00:17:18] he just seems to come in whenever there's a coverup needed. Sorry, you had a France, but it's true. I mean, he means well, and I think he probably is the one most trusted by the politicians, right?

[00:17:30] Like he is the one that the politicians seem to go to when they want like a Jedi advice without like they're being pushed in a political direction because he's, he's very Socratic, right? He's very like,

[00:17:41] I'm just going to ask you questions about yourself and maybe you'll figure it out. That's kind of his whole style. And he's, you know, at this point we've already said he's more than 750 years old. So it's easier.

[00:17:51] Sometimes it's easier for someone to acknowledge the wisdom of someone who's lived a few centuries longer than them. Right, right. Yeah. What did you think about Plagueis? Were you surprised, excited? I was very excited. Yeah. I was very excited. Again,

[00:18:08] Darth Plagueis was the first character that made me go into the EU. So that is a character that I've always wanted to see on screen. Right. And I'm glad that we're finally seeing it. I'm totally fine with abandoning the story from the novel because it is a lot.

[00:18:21] And yeah, I think you're right. I think now that I'm thinking about it, that's absolutely right. That it's just a transition novel. It doesn't really have much of a story of its own. Right? It's kind of connecting the two eras, even though, yeah,

[00:18:35] it was still called Old Republic in the EU. Right. And even though it's called Darth Plagueis, it's not really about Darth Plagueis, right? It's about the next one. Yeah. What did you think about how he looked? Was that what you expected? Loved it.

[00:18:50] Although I did enjoy the meme where somebody photoshopped Jar Jar into there. Yeah. They said, they said, this was a surprising cameo. So yeah, Jar Jar is, is a character I've met, referenced a few times from the prequel trilogies.

[00:19:08] And people love to make Darth Jar Jar memes for whatever reason. So I don't know. I don't think you got this far in the young Jedi adventures, John, but there is a, there's a character who's a nod to the Darth Jar Jar fans in that TV show.

[00:19:23] Can I, can I ask you, do you think, because I do, do you think that George Lucas had intended originally to make him a Sith? Jar Jar? No. Oh, I a hundred percent think so. Yeah. I am. I am fully aboard that conspiracy theory. Okay. Okay. I mean,

[00:19:43] I don't hate the idea, but no, that's not what I personally think. I am of the opinion that he wanted to make him a secret Sith or at least somebody working for the Sith. And then he got so much backlash from fandom menace people.

[00:19:54] Like just abandon the idea. I mean, I could see it being something that Jar Jar like stumbled into and he's like, oops, Mesa Sith. Now we say, sorry. Yeah. I, I, I, I unfortunately engaged with some of the online discourse outside of our discord over, you know,

[00:20:15] when I was feeling sick and I was like, well, I want to talk about the show. So I went on Reddit and whatnot and I was like, man, I'm glad we have a discord because I I'm watching it and, and people are just like, well, you know,

[00:20:30] the people of color and women leading, they're like, they get like really explicit about it sometimes that it's right. And then people are like, no, but it's not that I'm like sexist. It's just like, it's a queer woman. Well, they obviously don't use the word queer.

[00:20:45] That's my word. I just don't want them in my space. It's like, what? It's just that I don't want them to shove. And this is what the most respectful person I disagreed with his show about said to me is I understand that this is your community.

[00:20:57] I just think it's political to shove it down our throats. The way Disney has been doing. I'm like, all we saw in this entire series in terms of this is what specifically about the LGBTQI question. And all we've seen is two women who are both called mother.

[00:21:14] One kisses the other on the forehead. That is literally all we got. And, and behind the scenes, one actress said she thinks her character has a crush on another one. You know, that's literally all we got. Like Disney played super safe with that. Also, I think how many,

[00:21:28] how many heterosexual kisses have we seen in star Wars? Right. Like exactly. I mean, it's just, it just doesn't make sense. Like, is that shoving it in gay people's faces? I, you know, right. I mean, just acknowledging that gay people exist is not political.

[00:21:43] And then that's the other thing is like, people are like, Oh, why don't want to see? And I did see several posts that were very explicit about. We're going to, John is going to call this out later, but we're very explicit about the, The,

[00:21:54] they do know from studies that the groups, the two groups that tend to get a lot of the hate online are black women and Asian men. And there have been some very explicit posts about the show in terms of, you know, the,

[00:22:06] they're having a cast for strong representation in those two areas. And it's, it's just ridiculous to me that first of all, you can say stuff like that and say, but it's not racism. And then second of all, that, you know, I mean,

[00:22:21] I've seen people look at a fantastical galaxy with Wookiees and fish people. As I said that, and then say no, but there's no place for, for humans who aren't white. Like come on. RIP Reddit. You would have loved the empire. I mean, yeah, it depends.

[00:22:35] It depends on the Reddit and also the, yeah. Like I, I noticed on Twitter, I have my algorithm tuned pretty well, but then when I look in the star Wars accounts comments, then it's like, Oh, okay. It's not, it's not great. Yeah.

[00:22:51] And I don't want to belabor this all day. No, no, no, no, no. It's just amazing to me. Like we didn't really talk much about it all season. So now, now that we're at the end, I feel like the need to like, be like, that's insane.

[00:23:04] And you know, I keep thinking to myself like this is the fandom that bullied George Lucas out of the franchise he loved and created. Like they, I, I straight up believe they, that this fandom bully George Lucas out of star Wars.

[00:23:16] And that sucks because I think that star Wars is worse off for not having his creative vision, but you know, they're never satisfied. They're never going to be satisfied. They're always going to find something to complain about as long as it's not just a rerun of 1977 star Wars.

[00:23:32] Yeah. And it's of course, it's not unique to this fandom. Don't get me started on the hot D fandom. I don't know. They all have that toxic portion. There is something about star Wars that feels worse to me. I did.

[00:23:47] I've been seeing a lot of stuff from houses, although I guess from house of the dragon, it's at least less racist. Yeah. It was at least that mostly not always. Yeah. Well, yeah. At the beginning they were not happy about the valerians, but, but yeah,

[00:24:03] maybe I'm just in different circles with house of the dragon. Cause I don't see that level of toxicity. I do see some toxicity. Don't get me wrong. But I think there's something about star Wars that is like really really aggressive and I don't understand it. But again,

[00:24:13] we don't have to. Yeah. We don't have to air time much more. I think we both agree that they suck. But then, okay. So not to be on a negative note because I'm actually not this negative about it, but I wanted to get your thoughts.

[00:24:24] People are questioning Basil's place in the series. What did you think of basil basil? However, we're pronouncing this. Oh yeah. That was another thing that really confused me. Like why did he just rip out the controls? That didn't feel right. I mean, I mean, I don't know.

[00:24:36] I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. He just ripped out the controls. That didn't feel like he was doing something that made sense. Yeah. Well, I mean, I thought that that made sense there in the sense that, you know, he was,

[00:24:49] he looked at the situation. He's like, Whoa, Saul's gone off the deep end. I don't know what he's going to do right now. And we did see basil has been kind of with half the information and a strong sense of smell.

[00:24:57] He's been jumping in a few times the last few episodes, like he went after May and now he's protecting may. And he's just, it seems like he's just in a panic, like, oh shit, what do I do? Everything's going, you know, ass up. Yeah. Yeah. Overall basil,

[00:25:12] I would just say if you're not, if you're not prepared to see like a cute cuddly alien in star Wars, then that's kind of the, that's kind of the whole thing guys. Like we're already getting excited about the skeleton crew. Neil is one of the kids names. Okay.

[00:25:29] But yeah, I liked that. I, it looked like mog New York as I'm calling him. He might also be a student in the 10 in language program. So I'm hoping that means basil has someone else to talk to now that you're it's gone. Yeah. I mean,

[00:25:44] and Vernestra did seem to either through that or, or through the, you know, the force echoes can never remember telemetry. Is that what it is? Okay. I can never tell if, or I could tell rather she does know more things.

[00:25:59] She does know more things than she should just by seeing with her eyes. Right. Right. And right. And she obviously knows things about chimera that she's not telling people yet. He's alive. Yeah. At Steven. I will say, I think that Vernestra's performance and I apologize.

[00:26:19] I don't know the actors. Rebecca Henderson. Okay. Well, Rebecca Henderson, I did not always care for her performance. I thought it was a little overacted sometimes. Okay. And just overall, I think they could have done more with the character.

[00:26:33] And I think that's part of the writing part in the acting. I, I just wasn't fully sold on this character. And that could be that they want me to rely on higher public. Now is that I don't have. And maybe that's where I see some of the critiques.

[00:26:45] See, there are reasonable ways to disagree about this show. Right. And I've seen on our discord very respectfully just saying like, Hey, you know, I don't have the background in the higher public. I don't have a lot of the background on this stuff.

[00:26:58] And sometimes the show feels a little shallow. She feels a little hollow to me and put places. I do think this is where I can empathize with people like that because I, I, I do feel like Vernestra was very hollow in the season.

[00:27:12] I did not feel like she was developed enough. I think the biggest problem with her for this first season is that they're trying to hide whatever secret she has, you know, so they can't linger on her perspective or give us too much through her eyes at this point,

[00:27:27] because they don't want us to know what she knows. So I'm hoping that a second season, I think she would obviously be a key player in that, especially since, you know, we've lost so many members of the cast. And I think it's,

[00:27:40] it will probably be a lot about what happened. I guess that that would be the next flashback mystery probably is like, what was the situation with her and Kymere? And I'm hoping that that would flesh her out, fill out her character more show more glimmers of what the,

[00:27:56] because the book readers have actually been the most upset about for Nestor because she's changed from this idealistic teenager to this, you know, bureaucratic cog in the machine or the person actually turning the cogs in the machine.

[00:28:10] And I think a second season would probably benefit her character the most out of everybody. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that the mystery itself, you know, this kind of opens up a bigger issue, but the mystery itself,

[00:28:25] I think sometimes got in the way of the storytelling. Hmm. Okay. I disagree, but I see where you're coming from. I just think that it made the pacing feel a little off. And I, can you tell me, I'm sure you know this off the top of your head.

[00:28:38] And if you don't, then you can Google it. Okay. You did it. How experienced is Leslie Hedlund in show running? Oh, she's very experienced. I mean, she, so she's done a lot of things. The most recent thing she did. Did you watch Russian dolls on Netflix? No,

[00:28:54] that was an excellent. It's a time loop mystery starring Natasha Lyonne and Charlie Barnett who played Yord in this show. Okay, nice. It's really good. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't watched it. I was just saying that. Yeah. She's done other stuff as well,

[00:29:11] but that is like the most recent big thing that people are pointing to. Okay. Yeah. I was just thinking like, it almost felt like this was someone less practiced in putting together a season. Oh, I mean, I think there's a lot of differences. I think in that case,

[00:29:27] I think she got pretty much carte blanche creative creatively. And in this case, of course she's working with the machine and it, and I do think she managed to, especially from the lore side, you know, she had her,

[00:29:39] I'm really impressed with how she put it together personally from both from the casting side where she basically cast people. She's like, I have this character. And then how do I find the magical unicorn who can be chiming or who can be both, you know, jokesy and scary.

[00:29:54] Yeah. And so she basically, she said in that case, she, she knew the good place and then she watched this show called, I mean, sorry, this movie I've seen it. What's it called? It's called nine days. And Manny Jacinto's in it. And it's yeah,

[00:30:11] it's a good quiet movie about reflecting on your life. And when she saw him in these two performances next to each other, she's like, Oh wait, that's it. And she was the same with like Lee Jung Jae and squid games.

[00:30:25] And so she was really like kind of putting together her ideal roster. And then at the same time, she was working very closely with both Dave Filoni and especially Pablo Hidalgo, who is the law keeper again to she's like, there are these things from the, from legends.

[00:30:41] One of them being plagues as we saw him in the show as immune and you know, all that that she wanted to get in. And so I think, you know, that this is a probably, this was a much bigger process than something like Russian doll where she

[00:30:55] doesn't have to work within the confines of the lower in this established universe and this machine of approvals and all of them. I certainly got that. Yeah. I'm I'm and I'm not full of taking her for that. I would just say overall,

[00:31:08] I think that I most felt the hand of the writer, which is something you don't want to do. Right? Like you don't want to feel like someone's forcing the story together. You want to feel like it's organic.

[00:31:18] The most I ever felt the hand of the writer this season was when the mystery was being protected was sold three times saying, Oh, I'll tell you in one second. Oh no, I've been shocked. You know, like that kind of stuff. Right now that third time I understand.

[00:31:32] Yeah. They should have taken out the third time made sense because then that leads into the next flashback episode, but they should have taken out like the second time he does have. Like stuff like that stuff like extra just like being like, oh, you're still alive. Ah, just,

[00:31:47] just too, too much. Like I'm almost telling you, but I'm not, it's just too cutesy for me. That's how I feel about that. And, and again, like things like severance, which I think is the perfect mystery box show.

[00:32:01] Like if I had to pick one mystery box show to recommend somebody to say, Hey, I'm looking to go into this genre. I would do severance fingers crossed for season two because apparently there's some drama. I have a lot of skepticism about that being a good season.

[00:32:14] I hope I'm wrong, but my point is I never felt the hand of the writer forcing the mystery box shut. Whenever something felt like he was trying to get out of the mystery box. Right? No severance was exceptional. Yeah. And I didn't feel that way this season.

[00:32:31] I thought that things were, I felt like Leslie Hedlund was sitting on the box, keeping it shut. Okay. At times. Okay. Not all the time, but at times. And that's, that's not, that's not a good thing. I don't know. Part of me feels like some of the,

[00:32:47] I just hear a lot of, I don't know. Part of me wonders if people like started to chafe with this more for two reasons. One is just hearing all of the backlash online. It can't help, but creep into people's heads a little bit.

[00:33:00] And the second thing is also, I keep hearing people compare it to house of the dragon. I'm like, stop doing that. This is not house of the dragon. This is not meant to be house of the dragon. Yeah. I mean,

[00:33:10] I don't think I am comparing it to house of the dragon. I think they're completely different shows. No, but I just mean just because they're airing at the same time, I think people are in their heads. Yeah. Looking at them side by side, which I get, but yeah,

[00:33:26] I, I respect these and you know, I, there are also obviously we're going to hear some feedback from other people who have similar feelings. I tend to, I was very satisfied with this. I have like a few little quibbles that I've talked about, like, you know,

[00:33:42] it should have been one less soul about to tell his story moment, but I absolutely disagree with people who think episode seven should have been earlier. I think that would have ruined the show. But yeah, do you have,

[00:33:53] what are your biggest lingering questions coming out of the season? I want to know who chimera really was. I don't know if it's first body. I want to know. I'm trying to think, hold on a little early right now. Well, thank you for getting up to do this.

[00:34:11] I especially have to be, of course, of course. I appreciate you doing all the coverage for me recently. I want to know is maze memory loss really permanent, especially with them being virgins, super twins, I guess I want to call them. You know what?

[00:34:29] Does memory shift back and forth to them, especially since it seemed like OSHA had a vision of her, but then maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was just her seeing herself. Right. And I want to know is please the,

[00:34:41] the master of chimera or is plagues watching chimera cosplay set and being angry about it because I'm still in camp. Chimera found out about the sit. Yeah. I mean that, that tracks for me too. Yeah. I think that that's, that would make a lot of sense,

[00:35:00] especially just the way he phrased it that one time you might call me Seth. Like he was like, this is a guy who found some old books and holocrons and he's like studying them and right. You ended up being an English teacher. Yeah. I was a teacher.

[00:35:14] I was a teacher. I was a teacher. I was a teacher. I was a teacher. I was a teacher. I was a teacher. It's the, it's crazy. You're like that. One of the main reasons why he found out about what chimera cosplay is

[00:35:25] cause he wanted to know more about real life activities and what happened after chimera came out. Chimera was just a regular guy. You know, he just did like some weird things and then he just found out about various things and just dug into it. Just the feminine side.

[00:35:36] Yeah. Just the feminine. Right. You ended up being an earworm in my, in my head for like a week after you went sit on the podcast, I don't know why, but that word you're delivery of that word just stuck in my head for like a week.

[00:35:49] Well, we can talk as we go through. I was wondering what was your favorite fight, and you said it was the Saul-Chimera one in the finale. I just wanted to shout out one interview thing. This one is not with the showrunner. This one was with the action

[00:36:09] director Christopher Clark Cohen and Mark Ginther, who is the series stunt coordinator. And they're talking about how Junos Suotomo, he played Kalnaka. And they said basically about the Kalnaka fight was one of my favorites. So I just wanted to shout out what they said

[00:36:27] about it. You have to take into account just the sheer strength of a Wookiee that would be behind his strikes with a saber. You can't really just have a straight clash with a Wookiee

[00:36:36] because he's going to knock you off balance. His saber is going to hit like a truck. We really wanted him to be a bit more wild and more animalistic in his approach. I'd imagine

[00:36:45] if we saw Kalnaka fight in his own Jedi mind, he would use his strength, but it would be a bit more clean because the witches are inside his mind and bringing out his primal instincts.

[00:36:56] His form isn't going to be immaculate. It's not going to be perfectly precise. It's going to be swinging wildly to take out whatever is in front of them no matter the cost. So

[00:37:08] you had questions about, we talked a lot about in what form the witches were puppeting him. Does that answer any of that for you? Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I think it makes sense why Torbjorn was able to not die immediately.

[00:37:19] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And they also said that Jekki's prowess with the saber is because she souls Padawan and extremely dedicated to emulating him. They said, yeah, soul's a monster with a lightsaber. So of course his Padawan who wants to be like him would work

[00:37:35] on that too. Yeah, just so much potential wasted with Jekki. It's the one I have to remember. When I look at Chimera, I'm like, you killed Jekki and you're, don't forget that. Oh, sure. Forgot it.

[00:37:46] But at least she won't. Yeah. Yeah. But I assume you do want a second season. Yeah. I would probably give this whole season an eight out of 10. It mostly did everything for me.

[00:38:00] I, like I said, I felt the hand of the writer sometimes, but it was, it was mostly minor quibbles. I think it definitely deserves a second season. I think that they will have learned a lot from

[00:38:10] doing this season and next season will be even better. Yeah. I I'm more positive on it. I would give it a nine out of 10 and it's currently it's the year's not over yet. Uh, and certain other

[00:38:22] shows aren't over yet, but it's currently my third favorite show of the year. You know, I, I sometimes think, uh, if I ask you for a rating on a star Wars, it's kind of like asking Anakin to rate Padme's senatorial progress. They're all good.

[00:38:40] But Hey, I didn't, I mean, I'll tell you, I, as much as excited as I was for the Ahsoka show, specifically for obvious reasons, because I love that character. I love the night sisters. Um, that did not reach my top 10. So. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.

[00:38:55] All right. Shall we get into the feedback? I would love to do. Do you want to start with Darth Kenshin and we can take turns? Sure. Darth Kenshin wrote in, said, I enjoyed your recent conversation about balance in the forest and all of George Lucas's somewhat

[00:39:11] contradictory quotes on the matter over the years. I believe the balance in the force is the elimination of the Sith, not the dark side entirely. We've learned more and more over the years that people use the forest for different reasons across the galaxy. And there will always

[00:39:27] be a dark side, pulling people to act on their emotions. Eliminating that is not really possible. However, the Sith as a group go too far. The force is natural and permeates everything. But

[00:39:38] as Palpatine himself says, the dark side could be a path to abilities that some would consider unnatural. I knew you said the voice. I got to do the voice. That's why you had me go first.

[00:39:53] The Sith use the force. See, this is the hand of the podcast writer. Anyway, the Sith use the force in unnatural ways to cheat death, create life and do other things that disturb the natural balance of the order. So it is their destruction that balances the force.

[00:40:10] This is further shown during the battle on Mustafar. Can I say this part? Yeah, no. Yeah, you can't say that part. Just battle Mustafar period. Those who know, know. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I think the quote John refers to from Lucas that balance is

[00:40:29] the light side or whatever it was exactly. It really just means the destruction of the Sith and their using the force in unnatural ways. But it still leaves room for other groups

[00:40:40] to use the force differently from the Jedi in a way that the Jedi may describe as the dark side. After all, as Chimera says, that's just semantics. It leaves room for the Jedi themselves to

[00:40:53] constantly have internal struggles. Now I would go as far to say if the Jedi practiced better balance in the force, there would be no room for the Sith to have been created in the first place because the Sith are fallen Jedi who are basically mad that they're

[00:41:09] not allowed to study the dark side at all. And it ends up in many cases pushing them further into the dark side by being told no. So I think if they were more open about the dark side and

[00:41:22] a you know, talked about it more like is there anything useful in this? What should we consider? What should we learn from this that would actually diminish the power of the Sith? Yeah. Do you know what Chimera's treatment of Osha reminds me of? What?

[00:41:39] Is Nynaeve from the Wheel of Time. Okay. Is Osha seems to have this block that anger seems to be the path to unleashing this extreme power, this really powerful force ability. It's similar how Nynaeve in the Wheel of Time-

[00:41:59] Yeah, that's true. She's definitely light side, but yeah, she uses her anger. Right. And she has this block that can only be unleashed through an unconventional method, right? Yeah. No, that's a good point. Good point. Okay. Ihup Wut says,

[00:42:19] John, you're not that far off with the jogging guess because you were guessing that they write their theories up after a good jog. I've had a tricky knee keeping me from being able to jog, so I'm probably venting pent-up energy with paranoid delusions. Alicia, no light whip gangs.

[00:42:35] No, the light whip gangs will be more like, because I said, will they be like on the Vespas, in the Book of Opeth? The light whip gangs will be more like Durge and his minions in Clone Wars, less mod, more rocker.

[00:42:49] Now you're talking about the Clone Wars Legends series, right? The original one. Which by the way, I am going to do an episode for because it's awesome. I grew up with that. I used to watch that after school. Oh really? Okay. So I went in on that.

[00:43:02] Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. And I know Bob, that's one of his favorites too. Yeah. I haven't watched it since I was a kid, but I remember loving it a lot. I used to come over from school and put it on because I was like, wow, this is awesome.

[00:43:14] Well, it's because of that that I developed a weird fascination with Kit Fisto because he looks so awesome in that. The art is so good. I thought that Grievous was super cool in that, in a way that he never was in a live action film,

[00:43:29] or even really the animated Clone Wars that became canon. Yeah, exactly. Oh, and the other one, my other favorite background Jedi from the Prequels trilogy that is more awesome in that is Shakti who is... No, it's not Ahsoka in the Legends

[00:43:43] version. It's Shakti. They are the same race. Fair enough. Okay. So Ewha says, when the website is up for my pro-lightwhip political advocacy group, More Lightwhip Now, I'll share the link. I'm so old. I remember the OG light whipper Lumia,

[00:44:01] hence my strongly pro-lightwhip stance. Like, hey, we stand a pro-lightwhip stance on this podcast. Thank you. Ewha, you always make me laugh and I appreciate that. Really. It's good. It's good stuff. And I love the wild theories. I love the humor. Keep it up. Keep going.

[00:44:19] Emily B says, hi, Lorehounds. Just a quick fact check of something that is several stages removed from the main topic, the acolyte. When Alicia was referring to the Abednedo species, she shared that

[00:44:33] the name of the species is a biblical reference. This reference would be in the third chapter in Daniel when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, it's Abednego. Abednego. Okay. Anyway. I was pronouncing it wrong. Thrown into the furnace by Nebuchadnezzar. You have to say that word faster or you're going

[00:44:57] to mispronounce it, but you know, Nebuchadnezzar. All right. There is a Beastie Boys song called Shadrach where Abednego is mentioned, but if the Abednego, Abedne... Yeah. So yeah, I mean, basically, she's saying like, why would there be a spelling change?

[00:45:20] And so first of all, thank you to Emily for correcting my pronunciation. Abednego. Yeah. I just got that wrong. And I think that that means that the species is also called the Abednedo.

[00:45:34] See, it's difficult. And of course, and so Emily just wants to know like, why would they change the spelling of the species from the name of that figure from the Bible? She says, I didn't research

[00:45:48] the question much. So if you happen to know more, yeah. And like John mentioned, all of Star Wars is made up, so it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Just curious. And yeah, so basically I

[00:45:58] did respond to her, but this was a Pablo Hidalgo thing. Again, the Lore Keeper and it came from JJ Abrams. So JJ Abrams picked the name of the species and you'll find all of the members of

[00:46:10] the species do have Beastie Boy names, but they are all changed in the spelling. So like this came up when we were talking about, Vernestra was talking to someone called I Said What You Want.

[00:46:26] And that's, yeah, they changed the name. So they just changed in this case for the name of the species, G to the D. It's just, yeah, how they do things in Star Wars. Like wink, wink, that's a

[00:46:37] reference, but look, it's our own thing now. We're going to name the music Jizz and- Right, exactly. Yeah. Did you ever watch 30 Rock, Alicia? It reminds me of when Tracy's fake adult son,

[00:46:51] who keeps asking him for money, is coming up with businesses. He's like, I'm going to make a soft serve ice cream shop that is also a microbrewery. I'm going to call it Microsoft. Like all these... Or he opens up a restaurant where they have unlicensed monsters and it's

[00:47:10] like Godzilla with one L for legal reasons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure the Beastie Boys probably think it's awesome that their lyrics are being used for a Star Wars species, but still.

[00:47:27] Okay, so we have two emails from Jordan. So I'll take the first and you get to take the second, because for anyone who doesn't know in our Doctor Who coverage, Jordan was a regular correspondent who likes to write in Franglish and it's fun to make John say it.

[00:47:45] I'm going to sign off now. Goodbye, everyone. And our first email, Jordan says, Salud, Le Gang. Listening to your podcast, wonderful as always. I couldn't help but jump to John's defense regarding these showrunners overly explaining

[00:47:58] their shows. Hedlund in particular seems to feel the need to double cross her T's and double point her I's. I firmly believe in show, don't tell, and whilst you're at it, leave some nuance for

[00:48:08] the viewers, please. Perhaps it's the presence of the sadly oft toxic Star Wars audience or the shorter season run times, but less is more I feel. Anyways, though I fall more in line with

[00:48:20] David that this is a Saturday serial type of show, it's fun and successful in my humble opinion. I enjoy that we're exploring new areas of Star Wars and not just the likes of your torso or

[00:48:31] chimera arms, though thank you, Leslie. But I often feel the punch of these explorations falls flat. All that said, enjoying each episode and being sure they're made all the sweeter with your fabulous follow up coverage. Cheers, lower hound, Sante. Yeah, I think that Jordan makes up a good

[00:48:49] point about it being toxic, you know, a response to a preemptive thing. You know, she knows that all these people are coming for her online. And so there is a bit of that in that. But I do have

[00:49:00] to say that she, she has pushed back in interviews that I've read to where people are like, tell me what's the relationship is between Plagueis and Chimera. And she's like, No, let's go to season

[00:49:11] two. And then I will. Well, you know what, Miss Headland? If you'd like to do any more explaining about anything, you can do it on here. That's the only appropriate venue. That's it. Yeah,

[00:49:24] so we'd love to have you on. I promise not to be toxic. All right, you want to take the email that Jordan sent after the finale? Let me stretch. All right. Okay. Bonjour, little hounds. Well, eight episodes done. Why can't we do at least 10 to 12 episodes these

[00:49:44] days? Agreed. And I would go with a C plus fun and successful in my honest opinion. But I am in no rush for a second season. All right. Ultimately, I enjoy the diversity, the sexiness,

[00:49:58] and frankly, the action scenes are some of the best ever in Star Wars. But what I didn't enjoy was so much of the clumsy writing slash storytelling, particularly with the role of soul despite Lee Jung Jae killing it with his phenomenal phenomenal acting. Though on the other

[00:50:15] side of the spectrum, I must admit I was not the biggest fan of Rebecca Henderson's portrayal of Vernestra, one of my favorite characters, as I felt that she came off quite flat and robotic. She was almost too stoic. Episode seven was totally unnecessary. Part of the clumsy

[00:50:30] writing slash storytelling as to immediately drop my rating from B to C plus. Last but not least, I go back to my gripe that you know the writing is unbearable when the showrunner is constantly

[00:50:47] finding the need to explain their series to the interviews. I mean, hard disagree, but I'll shut up. Well, let's finish email and then you can yell. I did really enjoy the show and appreciate

[00:50:59] them taking a swing. But all in all, for me, Acolyte fits well with the overall Star Wars trend of oft mediocre writing with amazing visual slash action scenes and world building. Leslie held the headland nailed expanding the Star Wars universe, although in short was a fun

[00:51:20] and forgettable minus your ride. What say you all? As always, your coverage made me appreciate each episode all the more and look forward to continuing the Star Wars timeline journey. Merci. PS, spoiler policy never bothered me. One iota. You do you, lore hounds. Santé.

[00:51:38] I like that you put the extra edge on all the French words. I, you know, I gotta, I gotta, I'm here for the fans. So I promise you, you know, room to yell. So. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I responded to Jordan. I was like,

[00:51:57] thank you for this. I'm of course going to completely disagree. And Jordan's like, that's great. Do that. But yeah, I, you know, I think I've said enough about that. And I understand where this is coming from. I actually found this exceptional writing I laid out in the

[00:52:13] breakdown for episode eight, exactly why I found it exceptional writing. So I won't belabor the point here. Do you have anything you want to add? Yeah, I, I think Jordan is a little harsher than

[00:52:26] I would be. I think I actually think the writing was really strong most of the time. Especially the dialogue. I really think that this is the second best Star Wars and all live action Star

[00:52:36] Wars other than maybe an all Star Wars at all, actually on screen rather. I think that the. Well, I would put Rogue One maybe second, but yeah. Oh, I was, I was actually going to, sorry, I wasn't finishing my sentence. I'm going to say

[00:52:51] behind Andor. Yeah. Yeah. I still think Andor has the best dialogue in the series still. But not everything needs to be that right. And, and I still think this had a really amazing dialogue

[00:53:05] while still having, like, like we were talking about, like this is a show about essentially like the elves of middle earth, right? This is about the super beings, the elevated humans. Whereas

[00:53:17] the Andor and for the most part, I would say the original trilogy were about sort of the men, the people on the grounds, the small folk. Right. I just mean men as like the Tolkien men, the race,

[00:53:32] those, those who are not like elvish, those who are of the lesser stature. Right. Right. No, I mean, I think, yeah, that this is Andor definitely has the best writing and I

[00:53:45] would put, I would lump a Rogue One in there with that, of course, connected. And, but this is maybe like the best Star Warsiness for me, you know, in terms of the, the way it feels like this huge

[00:54:00] diverse galaxy and with all these possibilities and just all the things that I love about it, that this was peaked at this show. It was like this and Clone Wars, I would say are the top for

[00:54:09] those. Yeah. I think you're right about that. This is, this is much more universe expansion rather than, you know, Andor really feels like you're being boxed in by certain plot elements, which is, which makes sense for that era. I'm not saying that's a bad thing,

[00:54:25] but we are less boxed in here. Right. I agree. Okay. Well, let's take a quick pause in that note for a break. And when we get back, we're gonna, we hear from an actual social worker in response to some of that discussion from previous episode,

[00:54:40] and then a lot more takes also more positive takes coming up in the back half. Be right back. Okay. So we discussed in the last episodes you know, Marilyn brought up the idea of Saul as a

[00:55:13] social worker and we talked about it in relation to some real world concepts, particularly having to do with what happened with First Nations children being taken away from their homes and, you know, reeducated to get rid of their culture basically. So we are fortunate enough that a

[00:55:30] friend of the pod, Rocky Zim, Dave sent in some background information about his own experience as a social worker in Canada. So this is so he begins just finished the episode seven pod and in

[00:55:44] regards to showrunners explaining things, I think they almost have to now with all the hate going around and toxic fandom, they keep they try to keep things hidden or maybe not explained enough

[00:55:53] and people lash out. Then they explain things and people lash out. So it is a no win situation. Yeah. I don't mind them explaining certain things. Definitely not everything. I think part of it

[00:56:04] results from today's society with hating shows and complaining. People on one hand say they should have answered certain questions or not left cliffhangers. And then they don't. And then people say it was weak or not good enough. No matter what is done. No one is happy. Let's just

[00:56:18] be happy. We get more Star Wars. Yeah. So that part wasn't about the social work, but but yeah, agreed, agreed, agreed. Yep. And then Rocky Zim continues social worker here with some input. Social workers get stigmatized as being the ones taking kids from homes because in the past,

[00:56:34] the CPS CAS workers were labeled or would say they were social workers and would come remove children from homes. Now we have professional organizations like NASW or for me in an Ontario

[00:56:46] OCS WSSW that we have to join to be able to legally identify social workers or social service workers. Workers for CPS slash CAS are not always social workers, but we have the reputation of taking

[00:56:59] kids away and get pushback or hesitation from families and kids who are referred to us. Some refuse to meet with a social worker and understandably if they had a bad experience

[00:57:09] with a social worker, someone they thought was a social worker. I am a social worker and live near six first nation communities and worked in some of the communities and have learned a lot about

[00:57:19] the horrible actions of Canada and the first nation, um, in the past and present. Canada created residential schools for first nation kids. They would take the kids from their community and put them in the schools where they were treated horribly. They are still finding bodies at

[00:57:33] abandoned residential schools that were buried and hidden. There's still a lot of work to do. There was a lot more education of the first nation culture and how to work with first nation families and children as a social worker, trying to not only use a Western framework of

[00:57:45] social work and moving toward a more cultural competent strategy for social work like the medicine wheel, seven grandfather teachings and other cultural traditional, um, traditions and knowledge. There were a lot of other terrible things that happened to the first nations along

[00:58:00] with residential schools. Iron horse is a good movie to watch that depicts what happened in a residential school. Intergenerational trauma is a term and issue that is being addressed now, which is good. How the effects of the horrible acts that affected the first nations in the past

[00:58:15] can filter through to today's population. I'm Caucasian. So please, if anyone here is first nation and can explain anything I said better, please do me Gwetch. And thank you for saying

[00:58:25] me Gwetch actually. That's um, that, that is, I think that this is coming from the, uh, tribe of there's a council of three fires and my tribe pot of water me as part of that council of three

[00:58:37] fires. Um, and they are originally from, from Canada and uh, the other two are the OJ and Ottawa and so me Gwetch is thank you in our language. He says, I'm, I'm not saying all social workers

[00:58:52] are perfect. I know there are ones who are not also, there is way more that has to be done for reconciliation with the first nations and more education and awareness for people who are not

[00:59:01] first nations, METIS and Inuit being a social worker. We have duty to report when there is a suspicion of abuse or neglect. Other positions have to do this too, but we are the default because of our training. We definitely have to take culture and family dynamics into consideration.

[00:59:17] If other social workers are in this community, feel free to correct me or chime in. I had a tough case a while ago where I had to report to the K I N a child protection for first nations people

[00:59:28] because the student reported an issue that I had to report. I had just done a training that discussed first nations culture regarding family traditions and how to be more aware of their traditions and culture. I reported and asked the worker to let the family know that I'm only

[00:59:42] reporting to help get support for the family and not to separate them. The student was still mad at me and never spoke to me. It can be tough and we do have rules and guidelines. The goal of most

[00:59:54] protective agencies now are to keep families together and not automatically send the kids out for adoption. So taking the Jedi stance, which can also be tough for any culture and family

[01:00:04] because the other family members may not be able to take in a child, but we'll keep them in the family. It is always good to keep the child with the family and extended family so they can keep

[01:00:14] their identity and to help them feel safe. My wife and I have been on a long journey these last two and a half years to adopt. We had to sign up to for foster to adopt because the agency focuses on

[01:00:26] keeping kids with their families, which is great. It can make it difficult for people to adopt. It's complicated and we want what's best for the kids. It's just been a tough and complex journey. Anyway,

[01:00:36] I hope this is helpful. I just wanted to share my knowledge and info about social work, not saying social workers are perfect. We sometimes have a stigma and are stereotyped negatively, which can

[01:00:45] cause a hesitance for people to engage in services. Let me know if you have any other questions. Wow. And what an amazing piece of feedback. So I just want to say thank you, first of all,

[01:00:56] to Rocky's him. Dave. Now, now I know what to call you. Rocky's him. So watch out. But yeah, I mean, this is something that I don't have the First Nations experience, but I will say

[01:01:09] to my two brothers are both adopted and were in foster care prior to being adopted. So this does hit close to home for me. A lot of the foster care and child services kind of things.

[01:01:23] It was a little different because by the time my brothers were adopted, their parents had passed. But it was a thing that like they were staying with extended family. I think their grandparents

[01:01:34] for a while or one of them was. And they were just like, look, we can't we don't have the wherewithal to take care of these kids anymore. And it's really sad and sometimes it's just

[01:01:45] necessary and you just have to like. That's what the system is there for, right, is to make sure that a kid is not going to not be taken care of because people don't have the resources. Right. Ideally.

[01:01:55] It's just so yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's the ideal. And we should keep striving toward that ideal. And I'm not saying like certainly social workers have a really important place in society because, yes, we do need to respect tradition and make sure that we understand

[01:02:09] what's going on before we take action. I know there also is the idea that like abuse is abuse, no matter your excuse for it. Right. Right. And yeah. Yeah. I think the point is these systems

[01:02:22] were used to. To sort of prescribe to identify abuse where there was none and that that was the problem is is and still remains a problem in a lot of places, like you say, Rocky's him.

[01:02:37] Social workers are human beings just like anybody else, and they're going to be bad eggs. But we hope that overall guidelines, training, sensitivity are things that, you know, empathy are things that can help reduce that harm that that can be done with those services because

[01:02:56] I think of, you know, Peter Parker, Ben Parker with great power comes great responsibility, right? It's it's a tough situation. I have a lot of respect for what you do, Rocky. And thank you

[01:03:08] for writing and sharing your experience. Yeah. So I think there's just been like a huge shift. And, you know, Rocky's obviously part of the good direction that we're going from this, you know, when this being taking the kids from their families. This was my great grandfather's

[01:03:26] generation. This happened to my great grandfather in our case, in the citizen band Potawatomi down in Oklahoma. It was a priest who led the way, which, you know, priests often acted as social workers. And I do believe that a lot of people thought,

[01:03:41] you know, the same way Saul thought, oh, well, the right thing is to educate these children as Jedi. That's that's teaching them the good way. At that time, they thought the right thing is to

[01:03:51] educate these children as English speakers. And, you know, we have to get these bad habits out of their, you know, these pagan customs. So I was saying my grandmother, she spent most of her life,

[01:04:06] she had to take elocution lessons and she had to basically hide where she came from in order to be taken seriously for most of her life. And the, you know, her language that her father was born into speaking was forbidden for her to learn. Cultural practices were forbidden

[01:04:23] for her to learn. So I'm really glad toward the end of her life, they, they did lift that ban. So she, my father, my cousins and I all ended up getting our naming ceremony done together

[01:04:35] once the ban was lifted. And she got to at the end of her life, you know, she really reclaimed that identity, lived on the reservation with my grandfather. And I'm, I'm glad. Yeah, he had his

[01:04:47] own journey. He, my grandfather, he was a, he, his first language is German and he dealt with a lot of abuse and stuff because of that too. So it was great to see them at the end of their lives,

[01:04:56] reclaiming their identities of where they came from a bit more. Yeah. It's, it's tragic that anyone had to go through that. And, you know, we keep learning more tragedies about the first season

[01:05:06] stuff. Don't get me started on the American stuff. We haven't even started to confront that in this country. Right. Like at least Canada is doing something to like start changing that direction.

[01:05:15] I don't think we've done that in the U S right. Well, I mean, like I said, they did at least reverse the laws. So it's now legal again to engage in naming ceremonies and other traditional practices. Right, right. Yeah. Right. Well, Maryland. Yes. That was heavy feedback.

[01:05:32] It was really good feedback and let's get back to some star Wars. Hi, John and Alicia. Hi, Maryland. Just a quick few notes on color. Oh yeah. Our favorite tokens color. I can't say it without that, right? Yeah. Just a few quick notes on the episode seven pod.

[01:05:49] I really like the Canaan comics version of the Jedi code. Wait. So that was, we talked about the Jedi code and I see that's your editorial note. Yeah. So there is a, the Jedi code that

[01:06:05] comes from legends that we got in the dark disciple book, which is, uh, there is no passion. There is peace or, you know, and then the Canaan version was more like there is passion yet. Peace.

[01:06:18] It's more balanced. The Canaan version, even though it comes from the same point in the timeline, pretty much. It seems to be far more practical and realistic yet. It includes all the important

[01:06:28] points. Just a note on Buddhism. I think rather than just let it go, Buddhists would say, just let it be. In fact, I have a book somewhere which says exactly that.

[01:06:38] The author observes that if we could just let it go, it would be easy and we would not be troubled by attachments by letting it be. We don't become attached to getting rid of it,

[01:06:47] nor do we give it authority over us. It simply is whatever it is. And we are free to act without it controlling us. Aversion is as much of a sticky trap as attachment. Even those who are,

[01:07:01] those of us who supposedly are striving to be free from attachments usually wind up making them. The key is knowing and accepting that they will be lost eventually one way or another.

[01:07:11] I think the greater harm comes in trying to deny that or prevent it by clinging. I really like the idea that the vergence enhances or intensifies preexisting emotions and that this had a lot to do

[01:07:23] with everyone's choices that pretentious night. All the best, Marilyn. Can I, before we move on to the next part, can I just respond to that last thing, which is I, Marilyn brings up a point about

[01:07:34] the vergence intensifying emotions and I now remember that line. And I wonder if that had something to do with soul's really intense denial of doing anything wrong at the end. Yeah, his desperation.

[01:07:48] And, and, um, uh, OSHA's horror pivot to the dark side. Although I, I do think that they led naturally there, but it did, it was very strong all of a sudden. Right. Right. Well, I mean, that was the moment she just found out he killed her mother

[01:08:03] and lied to her for 16 years, but yeah, that definitely could have been intensifying that. So both what happened 16 years ago and this finale, it could be intensifying. I think Marilyn makes a good point there. And I also really liked what she said about Buddhism before that. I think

[01:08:19] that's really well put. Yeah. And I, I think that as the Jedi go along into their fall, since I heard that you, you've revealed the title of the next era on the right. As the Jedi go towards their

[01:08:32] fall, I think they do move further away from that Buddhist philosophy and more towards aversion. Yeah. When people get fearful, then that often ends up leading to behavior that causes even more damage. Fear the path to the dark side. Yes. Whatever it says. Perfect.

[01:08:55] Do you want to continue with the second part of Marilyn's ego? Sure. I'm still processing the final episode. It's disturbing, but wow. Have they given us a bunch to think and talk about? I'm trying to understand the phenomenon that is may slash OSHA. I found

[01:09:09] myself thinking of the dual moons on Brendok. They circle round each other, giving each other the identity of a double moon. How for how can you be a double anything without an other? Hmm. Perhaps this also has something to do with the flipping of the two women between

[01:09:28] the two sides of the force we saw in season one. This reminds me of the yin yang unit in which each will become the other when one gets too dominant. I give you, you, you give me, me.

[01:09:41] Yeah. Does maze decision to seek out Jedi starting with Kalnocka begin the shift for OSHA to open to the dark side? What I like about this is the way it seems to point to balance as the key,

[01:09:55] treating all emotions as necessary in their heavy levels, healthy levels rather. Both Jedi and Sith err in their focus on one side of the whole to the exclusion of the other. You want to talk about that quick before we move on to OSHA?

[01:10:11] Yeah. I mean, I just, yeah, I think that's really well put. And I also, I didn't read this email before I did the recap, but I was saying something similar independently. So Marilyn and I both came to the same conclusion that maybe there is some

[01:10:25] ebb and flow between the two women. Even flow. Let's get Eddie better in here. Now I have that song stuck in my head. Thanks. Sorry. I'll enjoy it for the next week. No, it's a good one. It's good.

[01:10:39] It's the only good Pearl Jam song. I'm going to get added for that. I'm going to get added. I'm adding you now. All right. OSHA's turning seems too quick for me. I suppose they'd say that it's a reflection of the

[01:10:54] two of them being the same person. And so both of them can go in both directions. I don't know. I feel really unsettled about this resolution. At least we have confirmation that Chimera is

[01:11:04] Vernestra's former pupil. And I really feel that Sol was made a martyr by both OSHA and Vernestra to keep things under control. Thank goodness she finally goes to Yoda at the very end.

[01:11:16] I do see a potential witchy connection to the force you use here. I am guessing that the mother's use of the force to make two iterations of one being was grounded in nature and natural

[01:11:28] processes. This isn't something that the Jedi seem to know, seem to follow very much during this period of their development. I'm thinking of Qui-Gon and the living force. I hadn't thought about Sol's perceived need to have both of them together to prove what he had

[01:11:46] discovered about their origins, that they were one person divided into two. But didn't they already more or less know that from the blood tests? Surely when they were tested when they were eight years old, that information would have been stored somewhere and could easily be trotted out at

[01:12:01] need. I don't know, Marilyn. You ever go to LabCorp? They're not very good at taking the information from your last blood test. Well, I mean, and also we know that May was not in the

[01:12:12] records. So something happened either Indara did not report as she said that she did or that was expunged from the records after the fact. That's true. That's true. And also I just, bad record keeping is something that I think is more common in the galaxy than we think.

[01:12:31] Oh yeah. I mean, the Jedi have millennia. They lost the whole planet in the prequel trilogy. The Jedi have millennia of records to keep on top of. And as we will see in the next era,

[01:12:45] it seems kind of easy to just like, if you have a reason to be in the Jedi temple, you can just kind of go into the records room and do what you want.

[01:12:52] Yeah. It's kind of like the room of requirement in Harry Potter, right? You go, I need a place to hide something. And they don't get you a place that like nothing else is in. They get you a place

[01:13:00] where everybody's stuff is in it. And so it's hidden by just being in clutter. Right. Well, yeah. And it's also, yeah, people can just, if they trust you, then, you know, nobody's checking about like whether you're changing the records.

[01:13:14] Right. Right. It's a problem. Anyway, I'm mostly worried that Yoda will be appearing in season two. They almost worried. Yeah. Oh, I'm almost worried that Yoda will be appearing in season two. They seem to be so concerned to

[01:13:29] just show how faulty the Jedi are. I hate to think what they might do to master Yoda. Anyway, it's going to be a long wait to next season. Thanks so much for your detailed and extensive

[01:13:39] coverage. All the best, Marilyn. Well, thank you, Marilyn. Thank you. I did respond to Marilyn's Yoda comment. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You said what you said before. Yeah. I hate to break it,

[01:13:49] but Yoda has this would this would not be his first and will not be his last cover up. But also, like I think that Yoda's Yoda has an established fault even from the original and prequel trilogies of hubris. Right. He's always fighting against feeling like he knows more,

[01:14:07] feeling like he is better because he's lived so many years and has so much knowledge. Right. And he does know more and he is better, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. Right. Exactly. It's this balance of knowing your worth, but also knowing you're not perfect.

[01:14:21] Mm hmm. Right. OK, the next are three email or three actually discussions on the discord that go together. So I'm going to read them together and then we can discuss it's about soul.

[01:14:33] So first we have Athena Agilea said, Yeah, I wasn't sure how to infer the handhold at the end. So that part's not about soul comfort or more more. But her last teacher pupil relationship was

[01:14:46] tarnished by a selfish love. And they definitely laid it on thick with his seduction to the dark side vibes in episode six. So Marilyn responded to Athena was souls love tarnished or was it off

[01:14:57] balance? I truly think that he did not intend to kill Mother Anastasia. I think he was out of his depth facing powers that he had no concept of and that the thrusting of his lightsaber into the

[01:15:08] smoke slash fog slash miss slash whatever was simply an automatic reaction of his training. I don't think he had any idea that it was going to kill her. I am truly devastated by the death

[01:15:18] saw. I hope that there is some plot sense to it in the end beyond vernestra's attempted to cover up. It seems to me that the two women together may and OSHA represent two sides of a whole person.

[01:15:29] And it seems that they keep switching back and forth. And we talked about this, I really hope that this series will series will in some way allow them to either be integrated or have each

[01:15:38] of them grow something that the other doesn't have. The idea that they're going to be constantly flipping back and forth between light and dark sides is really disturbing to me somehow. And

[01:15:48] to wrap up this exchange, a parade dice says I too will miss all he has his problems. He had his problems. But he was my favorite character by far irritated that he couldn't even tell

[01:16:00] Oshima that he was going to the council to tell them everything and was told not to. Then his reputation gets another hit by another Jedi wanting to cover even more stuff up. So what

[01:16:10] do you think of all that john? I was reading episode seven as just to respond to the last thing I was reading episode seven as soul telling me what happened. So I think he did tell me, I was going to go to the council and Indira stopped me.

[01:16:25] Yeah. May doesn't remember that though to tell OSHA. She didn't start the fire. So she's still on that. As far as soul killing mother on say as an accident, yes. But as the father of a three year old who I'm trying to teach accountability to,

[01:16:42] we still say sorry when we met when we have an oopsies. Not I did the right thing. Right? Right. We don't double down. We do not double down. You know, it's just a he did not take accountability at the end. And I think that

[01:16:55] Maryland's point, I think it was Maryland who had a point about the versions like enhancing emotion there. Right? Yeah, I think that that was part of that was part of why he doubled down, right? It's like the guilt was amplified here on the virgins.

[01:17:08] Yeah, that could be his desperation has. I mean, I think and you could see at the last moment that he told her it's okay was the last words he said when he knew like that was it. That was the end.

[01:17:19] And there was maybe some sense of relief in it for him. Like, I don't have to live with this anymore and do these somersaults in my head to justify the last 16 years of my life.

[01:17:30] You know, it is a tragedy that he didn't get to tell OSHA in an honest way what happened. Right. But at the same time, he had 16 years to have a controlled conversation with her to have

[01:17:43] a calm conversation with their level headed. And he didn't. And it was that withholding. And that was soul's fault. That is 100% soul's fault. It was that withholding that was really was his demise.

[01:17:54] Yeah. He said at the beginning of the series, you know, OSHA was like, I wasn't a good student because I didn't learn to get over my anger. And he said, maybe I wasn't a good teacher. And I think

[01:18:02] Right. And I think that's right. Right. I mean, she couldn't get closer on something she didn't know about. Right. Right. Right. You want to continue with Jen Ryan? Yes. Jen rain, I think. Yeah, I think you're right.

[01:18:18] I don't often take part in the discussions, but I felt compelled to join this one today because I was just so happy with the episode and the new reveals and wanted to chat about it.

[01:18:26] And so I did. And I'm glad that I did. And I'm glad that I was able to do that. It's so funny. Yeah. So it's so funny. Why? Because, you know, like, I think that's really cool. Like, I think that's really cool. That's really cool. Like, like, yeah.

[01:18:39] Yeah. I'm not blind to the flaws in the series, but I am able to enjoy these shows because I love Star Wars, so I just don't care. Sure. I'd I'd love I sorry. I'd have loved longer episodes and more answers,

[01:18:51] but everything we did get was so cool. There was so much in this episode that was amazing. The bleeding lightsaber, Darth Plagueis, the fight scenes, love the slow-mo Yoda and the writers simply not being afraid to kill off our favorite characters.

[01:19:08] It raises the stakes in ways we rarely see in Star Wars. And I, for one, am happy there is a little bit of dare I say it romance back in Star Wars.

[01:19:21] OK, it's seductive and kind of dark, but it's also fresh and new. And I say bring it on. I really hope the fans haven't ruined it. Yeah, quote. It's quote, unquote, fans haven't ruined it because after tonight, I really want a season two. Hashtag renew the acolyte.

[01:19:39] I'd love a season two. I think this absolutely deserves one that does not feel done. I think I think if it stopped now, it would be like people always say, like, if Breaking Bad had stopped at the end of season three,

[01:19:50] it would have been like a really interesting, like noir ending. And I think that would be this. Yeah, it ended right now. And I don't think it would ruin the season. No, but I think it would be significantly better if we got a renewal.

[01:20:03] I just, you know, just from a selfish perspective, I had so much fun watching this. I've had so much fun talking about this. I just really fell in love with the characters and I

[01:20:12] just want the story to continue so badly. Yeah. And this is one thing that bothers me is when people are like, get this show canceled so other people who are enjoying it can no longer enjoy it.

[01:20:24] Like back off if you don't want to watch something, just don't watch it. It's that simple. I was thinking the other day, I was like, you guys just go watch 1977 in a room and leave us alone. What is this show doing to you? Yeah, yeah.

[01:20:43] No one is erasing the original. Well, I guess George Lucas did erase the original 1977. That was George Lucas. That's not the acolyte. That's the man you profess to deify.

[01:20:55] And again, I go back to they deify him now, but they vilified him when he was in charge. And so I just don't think the Phantom Menace will ever be happy with anything that's not the original

[01:21:06] cut of Star Wars. And even if they saw the original cut of Star Wars, they'd probably be like- They would complain about it. Well, actually. Yeah. Well, I even remember just from

[01:21:14] growing up, Return of the Jedi was my favorite because I was a child when I was first exposed and I freaking love the Ewoks. Okay? And I like the happy ending. Did you ever see the How I Met Your Mother bit where they were like-

[01:21:28] I've seen it all, but I don't remember. There was a whole thing where Barney, and Barney's really gross and I just want to make that clear and I'm not endorsing him. But all the disclaimers aside, he did a whole thing about how he thought

[01:21:39] that his girlfriend was too old for him because she thought the Ewoks were stupid. Oh. And he's like, oh, well, she must be- Anyone born in the 80s.

[01:21:49] Yeah. Yeah. And so she's just like, no, Barney, I just didn't see it as a kid. It was a whole thing. Right. He was ready to break up with her. He's like, no, you're going to be too old for me. I forgot about that.

[01:22:01] Yeah. But people, I was told that's stupid and it's breaking- Already people were saying it's breaking the law. I think at some point, people who are the future versions of the Phantom Menace

[01:22:16] right now are going to be defending the Acolyte and to use it to hate on something else that comes out. It's just a cycle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, Danny says, whoa, I have to process this episode. Definitely some really cool stuff

[01:22:30] and some really baffling decisions. So Chimere is Imri all along. That's hilarious and awesome. I kind of felt while watching this, they made too big of a deal of the reveal twice if he isn't.

[01:22:41] Plus with the almost anagram and her ship name, it's not very Star Wars if he's not. There's too much there. Haven't started the phase three of the Hyperpublic books, but I bet we get some kind of confirmation at the end. Plagueis probably knows how to do this

[01:22:55] and refuses to teach Sidious, which starts his obsession with all this stuff. Sidious is in the next era, not born yet, but- Which is apparently the theory I've crafted in my sleep since I've

[01:23:05] been awake for seconds, but who knows? I have a habit of taking things as fact at times like this. I agree that there would be some kind of mind transference involved. And then Danny did write

[01:23:15] back after this and say that he changed his mind. He no longer thinks that Chimere is Imri Kontaros and yeah. So just to explain this theory because it is a prevalent one online and there's pros

[01:23:31] and cons for it. So again, in the Hyperpublic books set 100 years before this, Imri Kontaros is Venestra's Padawan. And we've gotten a couple of references, oblique references to him in the show, including the name of her ship is the Kontaros. And so there is a theory that Chimere

[01:23:53] is Imri in a different body. It would have to be a different body because he's not like 100 or something and 100 and something years old. And he's not like a blonde guy, which is what Imri

[01:24:03] Kontaros is. I mean, it's possible. Danny's saying he no longer buys into this. I don't know. Like, I think on the one hand, it's like, you know, Venestra has been a Jedi for so long. I'm sure

[01:24:17] she had other Padawans. The one thing that makes me think maybe there's something to it. And you know, and then I think maybe the Imri things are just Easter eggs for book readers. But the one

[01:24:25] thing that makes me buy into it a little bit is Chimere's, his comment about, you know, I was a Jedi a long time ago, which is how one would talk about being a Jedi 100 years ago. So it's on the

[01:24:40] table. It's neither debunked nor confirmed and yeah, we'll see. We'll see. But yeah, Sidious is not yet alive. So however this plays out, yeah, it leaves a lot of room for what's going

[01:24:54] to happen with Chimere. But we do hear in the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise that Sidious said that Plagueis did teach him a lot of these things. And we see we're going to be talking about

[01:25:08] this when Marilyn and I are talking about some old Republic myths. And also we talked about this in the visions episode, but the Sith, they like to use their apprentices, you know, the smart research oriented Sith, the ones who are obsessed with this longevity question. They use their

[01:25:23] apprentices as both research assistants and research subjects. So I think that we should be looking for maybe some sort of relationship like that to develop. Yeah. I would also say, I think that the prequel trilogy really got us used to one Jedi,

[01:25:44] one apprentice. And I don't think that that is the way for most Jedi. But it's not, but like we saw that there was, I don't want to say names, but we saw that there

[01:25:54] were people who are hedging their bets, taking on a second apprentice, an apprentice taking on an acolyte and that is the typical Sith way. Oh, I just mean for the Jedi. I'm sorry. Yeah.

[01:26:03] I think that it's normal for the Jedi to take on an apprentice, that apprentice graduates to get another Padawan, right? The Padawans for the Jedi. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. I think that we've just gotten so used to seeing one character take on another and like

[01:26:22] that's the only one we ever meet. That's the only Padawan we ever meet. Yoda's had thousands. Yeah. And especially with a species, I forgot, Vernessa's species, remind me. Mirialan. Right. So they live longer, so they're going to have more apprentices. It's just math.

[01:26:37] I mean, look at Sol. He has Jekki now. He used to have Osha. Right. Maybe Yord in between. We don't know. He has some fatherly relationship with Yord. The Yord horde is strong.

[01:26:48] Yeah. Oh, Yord horde will live forever. I still want a prequel series about Jekki and Osha, or sorry, Yord and Osha and stuff learning to be Jedi as Padawans. And Jekki can be there too.

[01:27:02] I don't think I need to see more Yord, I'm going to be honest with you. I think he's served his purpose. What about Mog? How are you feeling about Mog? Who's Mog? Is Vernestra's new assistant slash Padawan or whatever it is.

[01:27:14] I can't even remember that guy's name. I don't care. I literally don't. I don't care enough to remember his name. Okay. All right. Did you miss Yord's Padawan? Because we met his Padawan at the beginning and we haven't seen her since. What was her name?

[01:27:27] Oh, see, I'm forgetting it already. The Zygerian. See, I don't know. Remember at the beginning he had, and I said the Zygerians were actually a slaving race that hated the Jedi. So it was very interesting that she was a Padawan. Anyway, we haven't seen her since. Fair enough.

[01:27:47] Tassiloa, that was her name. Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, do you want to take Abby's? Abby, right? A friend of the pod. That senator, what's his name? Is not entirely wrong- Ray Encourt. In saying what? His name's Ray Encourt.

[01:28:06] Oh, okay. Is not entirely wrong in saying that the Jedi need some checks and balances. The best intentions lead to coverups after coverups. Would it have been that bad to just come clean about the accidents, misunderstandings, and everything on Bren Dock the first time?

[01:28:22] Maybe there should be a force punishment that whenever a Jedi lies, they lose their connection to the force, i.e. the force is not with them. No opening doors of the wave of a pan for Nestra. How would you enforce that though?

[01:28:36] There are, we see, this is legends, but we see in Knights of the Old Republic too, there is a Jedi who was severed from the force because basically she took what the council considered the wrong side in the Mandalorian Wars. But it is a punishment on the table.

[01:28:53] Okay. Okay. I'm not sure I buy that that exists in canon right now because there were other ways to cut people off from the force in legends that I don't think they're bringing in.

[01:29:02] Yeah. I mean, I would say that the Knights of the Old Republic games are as near to canon as legends gets just because they're so beloved. I don't think they're going to change much. I know

[01:29:10] they've been working on a remake of the first game for a while, but yeah, again- I don't believe it. It's not happening. One day. It's happening. Look, this is my prediction. Well, they say it's being worked on and then they're like, oh, it might be canceled.

[01:29:24] Well, but they switched studios. Another studio picked it up. I just don't believe it's coming. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm very cynical when it comes to gaming. Yeah. Well, yeah, we can believe it when it happened. I guess.

[01:29:37] Exactly. Exactly. Did you see the Star Wars Outlaws recent review? Yeah. I mean, yeah, people have been play testing. It looks awesome. They, it's funny because actually the overall fandom was like, this doesn't look as good as the previous previews. Really? Oh.

[01:29:56] Actually, people are a little upset at the quality control at Ubisoft, which has been an issue before. Why? What are they saying? I mean, yeah. They're saying it looks like lower resolution. It looks like the animations are cheaper than you previously showed us.

[01:30:09] I think I'm just avoiding the complainer reddits. I don't know. I'm seeing I'm seeing it pretty widespread. That's why I'm like, OK, I don't know. All right. I haven't seen this yet, but I never buy Ubisoft game day. Well, I really buy games day one at all. Right.

[01:30:24] But I pretty much never buy Ubisoft game day one because they often have issues and they often go on sale like a month later. So we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I probably won't buy it day one just because I have such a game backlog,

[01:30:37] I have such a game backlog, but I am excited about it, even though it's you know, I like the Jedi games because I like being a Jedi. But right. Right. Yeah. Being a scoundrel sounds fun, too.

[01:30:47] I do like scoundrel stuff. And yeah, if it well, let me know if you want if you want somebody to cover with you. I think I think I will play early enough to cover it.

[01:30:56] OK. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's also it's going to be set in a much later era of the timeline. So we have time to get there. Yeah. Fair enough. OK, so that's what he says. I think they needed to reinforce that May was going to be killed

[01:31:10] unless deals were made. I was confused on that and had to think about it. Memories taken. So May can't remember her training or anything to help the Jedi or death. Death still worse. And yeah, I think that's a good point because I've seen a few people who

[01:31:24] were like, well, wait, why can't may go with them? So they could have done something there. I mean, I'm one of those. Yeah. There you go. I totally agree, actually. If that is the reason they needed to tell me that

[01:31:37] they needed to show me that and I did not get that at all. OK. One more complaint. I was tagged on Twitter. This is another quick one. A tech funk dub says overall, I enjoyed it because the ideas and some of the things we saw were

[01:31:49] awesome, but the story itself was not polished enough. So, OK, that's a yeah, that's a feeling some people are having. I understand. Yeah, I get it. We got another one from Rocky's in this one is more related to the episode. You want to take that one?

[01:32:04] Yeah. I like the episode. The fight scenes were great. Love how Chimera has a smaller lightsaber he can bust out at any time. I was hoping that soul would bust out the double lightsaber like malls when they zoomed in on his. I am sure they wanted to.

[01:32:22] They wanted us to anticipate that for a second. May wearing gray and OSHA wearing black symbolizes the change they are showing reasons for why OSHA would be angry. And it is legit after soul not being honest. I loved how it showed OSHA changing the lightsaber

[01:32:39] red when she held it. She definitely is powerful to be able to do that so quickly. It was sad to see soul still trying to justify his actions for killing their mother.

[01:32:50] You could tell he knew it was wrong. I am a little surprised Vernestra would alter the facts and blame soul for the incident on brandock, but it makes sense to have people keep the faith in the Jedi

[01:33:00] for just another example of the shadiness of the Jedi. Two parts I got giddy about was the scene of Plagueis and the quick shot of Yoda. I'm thinking Plagueis is spying on Chimera and OSHA.

[01:33:15] I don't think Chimera knows about him. Maybe. Or Plagueis is giving him visions or something. I don't know. You got a little rambly at the end. You are usually well spoken. I'm going to

[01:33:28] give you crap for it. Just kidding. I don't care. That's fine. I get rambly at the end too. If you listen to the end of our podcast. We are nearing 6am for you. Thank you again

[01:33:40] for being up at this crazy hour. Of course. Anything for the Star Wars. I agree with basically everything Rocky Zim said except the one thing I push back on is I'm glad

[01:33:50] that Sol didn't have a double lightsaber because I don't want to overuse that because I want the effect to hit when it does. And I also liked the effect that Chimera pulls this new lightsaber out

[01:34:05] of the back of the other one, which is a new thing. I think it's hard to have that. Don't they have a similar thing in the Jedi games? Pulling a shoto out of the back of the long one? I mean, you can hook them together or unhook them.

[01:34:23] Yeah, that's what I meant. I guess that's what I meant. But just being able to combine two lightsabers into one. Yeah. I mean, my favorite character. I'm fine. This is not a spoiler because you meet her having two lightsabers that hook together that

[01:34:36] way. Ventress. Okay. I didn't think about that actually. I didn't ever notice that they were in one. Yeah. So they're both curved handles when she holds them separately. When they hook together, they form an S shape in the middle.

[01:34:49] It's very cool. That is very cool. I like it. Yeah. So Rita Reborn said, my wife is a movies and Grogu Star Wars fan. She's shown interest in Ahsoka and the animated shows, but I've never been able to get her watching them.

[01:35:05] The Acolyte though, she's into it big time. Even before the thirst trap was sprung. Overall, I'm happy with the finale. I think it was pretty wise to do the Plagueis cameo early like that instead of a stinger. I'm pretty choked up about Sol. That was the most surprising

[01:35:20] scene in the series for me. I did not predict it going down that way. And the no weapon thing was surprising yet inevitable in all the best ways. The memory wipe feels a bit off, but I think we'll

[01:35:30] forget that next season because it was really the only way May might be able to be trained as a Jedi. Yeah. I think we will see May starting. I don't know. Will they train May as a Jedi given

[01:35:42] her age? But what are they going to do with her? I very much doubt it. What are they going to do with her? They're going to put her in a room to sit in and watch TV, watch the horrors.

[01:35:53] So by the way, about the Plagueis cameo, Hedlund said that he was always in every version of the finale. That was something that she fought for the most. That was like the thing she was most

[01:36:03] excited about. At one point they did consider him being a stinger at the end, but then they thought we want you to know that he's there, but we don't want that to be the last thing that you think

[01:36:15] about as you look at Osha and Chimera together, which I think was a good decision. Yeah, I think that's right. I think focus on the characters that this is focused on. Yeah. And Yoda has always been

[01:36:27] better as a side character. I don't think Yoda should be a protagonist most of the time. Especially given his odd speech patterns not shared by other members of his species. Yeah, I'm still baffled. If you're going to make that the speech pattern, then fine, but

[01:36:44] then why doesn't Yaddle sound like that? I know. I know some people- And maybe Bryce Dallas Howard just didn't want to sound like that. I know. And also Yoda doesn't speak necessarily like that in the Young Jedi Adventures episodes.

[01:36:56] Oh, really? Yeah. So I don't know. Is it something he's putting on later in life? Just act like Dottie? It's like you ever see that deleted scene in House of the Dragon? It's not

[01:37:06] in the House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones where Pycelle takes off his dottery old man shtick? Oh, I don't know. I don't think so. There's a whole scene that was deleted where Tywin

[01:37:17] looks at Pycelle. He's like, all right, you can drop it. I know that you're smarter than that. And he's like, forgive me, Lord. I didn't think you were that smart. Or I should have known you

[01:37:26] were that smart rather. And yeah, they don't treat me as a threat if I speak the way I do. And I was like, that's interesting. That's interesting. Maybe that's Yoda. Maybe that's Yoda. Fair. All right, you want to take sub-zeros?

[01:37:43] All right, sub-zero. My notes on the episode before Chimere waves his hand in my face, it makes me forget. I freaking love this episode. They tied up the necessary loose threads to make a satisfying season finale, but also dropped enough breadcrumbs to make us excited about

[01:37:58] season two. Ocea and Chimere are such a dynamic duo. It's exhilarating whenever they're on screen together. While it's probably bad for the galaxy for them to be together, I'm excited to see it

[01:38:08] unfold. Never resonated with me. I wanted. I just felt like they had way more chemistry than. That always had an ick factor to it, but I'm on board with Oceamere. I know you're a big fan, Alicia, so I apologize for the slender.

[01:38:28] I don't know how many times Sol said I did the right thing. When you keep telling yourself that, then you probably did something wrong. That Sol times Chimere duel was next level. They went full Crouching Tiger for a minute. It really showcases that High Republic Jedi were martial

[01:38:45] artists, whereas Skywalker era fights felt more like a backyard brawl. I keep thinking about Obi-Wan saying that sabers were an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. I don't know about more civilized, but certainly more elegant. That scene where the two red sabers were spinning back

[01:39:04] towards Sol. He calmly puts his saber away and force pushes out in a circle. Ocea's turn made. Oh, that was great. Oh, I see. I see the emojis. I see. I'm not cool enough to do the emoji. Ocea's turn made sense to me. She was primed for it.

[01:39:24] She spent 16 years hating her sister and seeing Sol as her savior and mentor, and it was all flipped on its head. I can't begin to imagine the pain and anger she must feel.

[01:39:37] The bleeding of the crystal was perfect, and how the blue light gradually turned red was incredible. The only thing my only critique this episode was they needed to more clearly define why May and Ocea couldn't go with Chimere together. It feels like a pointless sacrifice unless you

[01:39:52] as the audience know that it was either mind wipe or death. Maybe they should have had Chimere try to force choke May or something. We weren't clear on the stakes. The heartbreak separation just

[01:40:07] didn't land on first viewing. When I watched it again with a different interpretation of the stakes, it resonated so much more, but I fear that may have been lost on most of the audience.

[01:40:20] Whatever his motives may be, what Senator Ray in court said, it sounds like Senator Ray in court and it's just funny to me. What Senator Ray in court- It sounds like a fabric to me, but yeah. Okay. What Senator Ray in court said to Vern.

[01:40:38] Vern does not like to be called Vern except by certain people in the novels. Oh, okay. Was spot on. Although I think the root issue isn't that the Jedi needed more oversight is that they shouldn't have been entangled in Republican politics to begin with.

[01:40:55] I don't know Vern's backstory, but she was willing to sacrifice Sol's reputation for the Jedi institution. Not a good look and it was criminal that we didn't get more light whip. Agreed. We need more light whip. Yeah. More light whip now.

[01:41:10] I don't know much about Darth Plagueis. I'm sorry, what was that? I said more light whip now. I'm E-Hoop's advocacy group. I'm supporting it. That's great. That's great. I don't know much about Darth Plagueis,

[01:41:22] but I think the way they introduced him was perfect. Not so much that it took away from our core characters, but clear enough to make all the book nerds go nuts. Plane landed IMO, can't wait for season two. I do wish they'd done Yoda as a mid credit.

[01:41:39] I thought the final Osha Chimera scene was so dramatic with the music building to a crescendo, kind of like End of Empire. It should have gone straight to credits. Hmm. Yeah, they could have. I don't know why there seems to be now like there's a backlash

[01:41:56] to the idea of credit scenes or something in some cases and they're shying away from that. I personally love a credit scene. You know, well, you're an MCU head. I don't trust you. But I will say seeing Inside Out 2

[01:42:12] recently, there is a post credit scene and not a mid credit scene, but a post credit scene after you've seen every single person for like 10 minutes. Uh huh. And it was not that good.

[01:42:23] Okay. And it was not worth it. And I, I that did annoy me. That did annoy me. And I wouldn't have stayed if I hadn't seen on TikTok that it existed.

[01:42:34] But then I go to watch it. I'm like, yeah, I do check when I go to a movie. I just Google the name of the movie and credit scene even if it's like an indie movie. I don't expect to have it.

[01:42:44] Sometimes they surprise you and I need to plan accordingly for my bladder. I mean, I'm fine with it if it's like meaningful, worthwhile. I just, I just don't need. I just don't need it. Yeah.

[01:42:58] Yeah. Anyway, a lot of great feedback from Sub Zero and, you know, in terms of the shipping, which I'm going to bleep a little bit from the sequel trilogy, I will say that I wanted both.

[01:43:12] I think you need one to get to the other, to be ready for the more healthy relationship. And maybe that's what will happen with OSHA or maybe they'll just go down together in flames or off into the galaxy as Ren. Yeah. I mean, they did. They did even,

[01:43:27] this is getting becoming increasingly popular to have the enemies to lovers thing. I think it's BookTok's fault. BookTok's fault. No, it's just a human, you know, human nature. I was just thinking about how they tried to like, get us to root for

[01:43:44] Galadriel and Sauron together at the end of Rings of Power. Yeah, sure. Season one. I wasn't as into that one, but they are, there was a tension there. I mean, it's also has to

[01:43:54] do with the actors. They got to play those roles. Right. I just, from like a lore perspective, I was like, absolutely not. Do not. Okay. But I do understand in the same way that Leslie Hedlin wanted Chimera to be, you know, about that seduction to the dark side.

[01:44:10] I think that's exactly what the Rings of Power show is trying to portray with, you know, because we do have in this era, we do have a Sauron in his quote unquote fair form.

[01:44:21] And just to show like, well, this is why people might have followed him, you know, in the first place. It's not just like, why would you follow pure evil? Like, well, it's more complicated than that. So I appreciate it from that angle. My guy was a Catholic.

[01:44:35] I'm not as, I don't have the book, book cloakiness with the Rings of Power, but I did say recently that I'm noticing it with the Song of Ice and Fire things. So we all have our different hills to die on.

[01:44:48] I am. There are certain things that I will die on with Tolkien. You know, I do think that, you know, having reflected on season one, we'll get into this when we do Rings of Power. Are you doing Rings of Power with us?

[01:44:58] Not that I'm aware of, but I would love to pop up from time to time with Tolkien. Okay. All right. You're welcome to do as much or as little as you want on it.

[01:45:05] Yeah. I think it's going to be at the same time as Agatha. So we're going to, you know, see how this goes. Oh, yeah. You do. You go and talk about that weird lady. The witch's road.

[01:45:17] Anyway, my point is, I think I've softened a bit on season one. I think there were certain Lord decisions that really bothered me. And I've just kind of been like, you know what?

[01:45:26] I still have the books and nobody's going to change the books. Let's just let them tell a story on screen. Right. There are certain things that I feel totally become disjunct with the source material. And I, that's where I think I draw the line.

[01:45:42] Okay. Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. So Jean says, I kind of agree with everything that Sub-Zero said, except for the shipping thing about the trilogy. Personally, I just wanted that character to forge his own path as a Jedi free from all the Skywalker shenanigans.

[01:46:01] Jean continues, the power of two versus the rule of two, the final shot of them holding the lightsaber together, looking over the sea to the horizon. That was special in my opinion. Yes, the crystal turned red. And from all I know, that means something.

[01:46:16] Yes, the crystal turned red. And from all I know that means Sith. Yet I'm still not sure all dark side users are Sith. So I remain open to the possibility that Chimera slash Osha could be on another path.

[01:46:27] So I can most definitely see why Sol has slash had his admirers and some haters. But at the end of the day, I have to admit that yes, the haters, well, it's me. It's always been me. Sol was selfish and that's that. I won't miss him.

[01:46:43] And then he says, which is slash black women slash Asian men as protagonists antagonists. We already knew the usual POS would be out to sell you the show. Bypass all that BS to come to the discord and have real conversations with real praise and critiques, not the

[01:46:58] manufactured misogyny racism. They can all kick motherfucking rocks. What I absolutely love about this series is how much I don't know. Keep me guessing, please keep me at my whiteboard drawing connections that I that will be proved true or not. I'm fully

[01:47:15] on board for the experience of not knowing. Do you know? First of all, that was a very meaningful email, John or discord message. And now I'm going to make a joke about it. Yeah, just on one point, the kick rocks thing.

[01:47:31] I love that this is becoming now we're running a joke because somebody even wrote into the hot tea thing talking about like spoiler policies and stuff like that. Yeah, they said,

[01:47:41] well, you can tell me to kick rocks. And when I thought I was going to be on that feedback podcast, I was going to say, well, I won't tell you to kick rocks, but I might send John to do it.

[01:47:52] Yeah, yeah, I agree with basically what John said. Yeah. I think that's right, though. I think that's right. Yeah. And thank you, John. Shall we move on to Davey Mac? Yes, please. I'm really hoping now that the main mystery is resolved, that season two gets a larger

[01:48:10] episode count and that we get to spend some time just hanging out with the different characters slash factions adjusting to the new state of things before we kick off into whatever the

[01:48:18] overarching plot is. I really just want to be able to be in this world slash era more. And I think we need some more space to breathe, get to know the characters more. Like I hope May and Osha get more development.

[01:48:34] I like that AutoCorrect made this OSHA like the workplace safety. Right. I've seen that a lot. I hope that May and Osha get more development behind just the trauma that happened to them when they were eight. Agreed. Yeah, yeah, definitely agree.

[01:48:50] Although I don't I think I'm less hopeful for May since she is trapped in her eight year old memories. I mean, maybe not immediately, but I feel like there's a lot of

[01:49:00] obviously her memory thing is going to be a plot thing. And what is that? Does that allow her to have a fresh start and become a new person? If May doesn't get her memories back,

[01:49:15] then I'm a Sith Lord. I doubt she's going to be without her memories forever. What do you think of the idea someone brought up of them merging the two girls back together? I should say women. I should stop calling adults boys and girls. The gals.

[01:49:32] Um, I think it's possible. I think it's possible. And that would make sense if they are one person and I give you you, you give me me. I think that could be a very reasonable outcome.

[01:49:43] Especially if May has lost most of herself. Perhaps that's how she's made whole. Well, then maybe she's you know, she ends up filling it with Jedi doctrine and they have the opposite situation and they merge together again and are conflicted.

[01:49:58] You know, I've been thinking about this is something that I wish I could have talked about with you on the recap. Is that I don't know if you're aware that there are studies

[01:50:06] that basically show if you're raised in a moderate religious tradition, that is one that is not absolutism is not, you know, extremism. It essentially inoculates you to cult recruitment in adulthood. Okay, that's and I feel like because both of them were raised in a force cult,

[01:50:27] and then both of them were recruited into another force called right. They only have they are just going to keep looking for that rigid ideology because that's the whole point, right? Is that if you're if you're raised with no tradition, it's it's very easy for someone to say,

[01:50:45] look at this magic solution and you're right. You don't know you don't have the tools a lot of the time, right? Like now. Yeah. Right. Like you haven't had the you haven't had the

[01:50:57] the antibodies formed to make sure that you don't get sucked into that. Whereas if you were raised in a cult, then you now crave that you crave that belonging. Yeah. Belonging. And, you know, we see this with people who escape religious cults. They'll fall into another ideology,

[01:51:16] right? That is not necessarily religious, but they want these rigid guidelines because it feels like comfort and feels like home to them. Yeah. And I feel like that's what's happening with OSHA here, because really, she doesn't need to go with Chimera, right? Like, she doesn't need to go

[01:51:31] with him. But she's like, oh, well, I left the Jedi. I never felt right doing my little mechanic bit. Tech Mac is how it was. Mech neck. Mech neck. Oh, my God. Too many words in this fucking

[01:51:43] universe. They just made that one up. Anyway, and I just think that she's going she's falling into the same trap that she did with the Jedi. That's my point. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. It makes

[01:51:57] me think about my own experience and why am I skeptic of skeptical religions? I was raised in a family where there was like a confluence of different cultures and religions. So mostly like Christian, Jewish and and also we have Russian Orthodox, which is another breed of

[01:52:13] Christian. And I think having like all these these different things to look at, it made me question them more, which might have inoculated me in the way that you're talking about. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Interesting to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Next.

[01:52:35] Yeah, we're reaching the end. We have two short ones left. So Skatuni says, I enjoyed it. I just say my dual sons have arisen during this recording. Yes. Is it reflected through the window like I enjoy that finale, although May's decision was

[01:52:55] a little abrupt at the end overall strong season. But I think like Ahsoka, it is written with the expectation of a season two, and it maybe isn't as well rounded of a season as it could be because

[01:53:05] of that. In other words, leaving a few too many things open ended. Despite that, definitely the most I've enjoyed a live action Star Wars series apart from Andor. So yeah, that's a balanced critique. Yeah, that's a good compliment. Yeah. I take the last tiny teeny weeny one.

[01:53:24] Sure. Maureen D says, who would we all be if we had a clean slate from when we were eight? A manless Stenberg has two very different story arcs to follow in a second season.

[01:53:38] Yeah. I don't think I want to have an eight year old mind in a 30 year old body. 24. But yeah. Oh, well, I'm talking about myself. But Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't. I mean, I don't want an eight. And I think about

[01:53:53] this a lot, actually, because, you know, I definitely have fantasies about rejuvenating my body, you know, so that my joints can do the things I used to be able to do when I was a teenage

[01:54:03] gymnast, stuff like that. But then I think about like, I don't want my brain to be rejuvenated, because I've learned so much and I wouldn't want to lose that. That's so much of Yeah. Yeah, I only want to be de-aged if I keep all my memories.

[01:54:18] Yeah, exactly. But what do you hope to see in the second season? Let's assume for the second there will be one. Moe Lightwhip, no problem. Moe Lightwhip, minder problem or less problem. I feel like that almost is a season wrap up discussion. You know?

[01:54:39] Yeah, I guess that's true. All right, so we are going to have a season wrap up. And it's going to be very spoilerific. So it's not going to be in the public canon timeline podcast feed, it will

[01:54:50] be in the canon Padawan feed, but you can listen to it publicly for freezies on the lorehounds feed. So look for it there. I did talk about upcoming Star Wars coverage extensively at the

[01:55:03] end of the last episode, the breakdown for episode eight. So but just to briefly recap on the Star Wars canon timeline podcast, we'll continue exploring the Sith and other boogeyman across the early eras and break down the earliest era of High Republic storytelling 250 years before

[01:55:21] the Acolytes. And Jon, you're going to be joining for that. You've read those books. Absolutely. Yeah, I had a lot of fun with those. Yeah. Yeah, I love it too. And Jon's been reading the comics and he's been writing like,

[01:55:32] wow, the Jedi were awesome back then. What happened? I don't mean to be too hard on the Jedi. They're just an institution. Let's be hard on them. You know, they got superpowers. Didn't we do Captain America Civil War? You know, you got to regulate the superpowers.

[01:55:47] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I took I usually I'm not like a big Captain America fan. I mean, not like that. I dislike him. He's just not my favorite. But I definitely I surprisingly took his side on that.

[01:55:58] So, yeah, and then we're going to dive on the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast feed into the fourth era, the fall of the Jedi. And there's going to be a first a series of origin stories

[01:56:08] of key characters from that prequel trilogy. So watch out for an era overview episode coming on to that feed soon where I will let you know which books, comics, stories and tales of the

[01:56:19] Jedi episodes are going to be covered in which sections as we talk about Yoda, Dooku and Mace Windu, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, Maul and more people. The next episode on that feed is going to be in

[01:56:30] two weeks. It's going to be Canon Myths of the Old Republic with Marilyn R. Pequila, our favorite Tolkien scholar. So check out the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast show notes for a list of which

[01:56:41] stories will be covered. And what else is going on in the network, Jim? Well, I see you linked me, but I clicked the wrong link. So let me pull up to the podcast schedule. Well, actually,

[01:56:55] I didn't write the one for next week yet. So I'm going to wing it here. I think right now, most of the affiliates are on break. But we got the House of the Dragon going strong.

[01:57:07] House of the Dragon is going strong and I will actually plug Rings and Rituals has this week is going to be the feedback episode. So definitely tune in there. Oh, and the Lorehounds feed, we're doing the Deadpool and Wolverine reaction. You're joining

[01:57:26] for the first part of that too? Yes, yes. I'm going to join for the first part and then I'm going to leave so you two can talk about comics because I don't know enough about that. I mean, you're welcome to stay, but you have work.

[01:57:39] Yeah, I do have to go to work after that. But yeah, so House of the Dragon, we're going to be doing season two, episode five or six. I'm sorry. It's going to be episode six.

[01:57:51] We'll have to renumber this in the schedule. Right. And I'm joining this week because David's away. That's right. You are. And you've already teased the audience by coming in on the feedback

[01:58:00] episode. Now you get to do a full breakdown. If you're a subscriber, you'll also get the hot take who my wife, Maya is going to be on it with me. She's going to talk about it. She was like, wait,

[01:58:13] what's the format? And I was like, it's just talk about the show. This is the easy one. She made me put on a couple of the ones with David so that she could know

[01:58:23] what to expect a little bit. But I think it'll be a lot of fun. People will find out that she basically writes my jokes for me. Not really. I'm exaggerating, but we definitely bounce off

[01:58:31] each other a lot. Yeah. Well, I'm sure that's the humor is the best thing to build a relationship on, in my opinion. For sure. For sure. And then so second breakfast, it got a little delayed by my

[01:58:43] illness, but it will come out very shortly. We talked about international breakfast and we had a great time with it. And I believe this week I'm also going to put out it's either this week or

[01:58:55] next week, but soon I'm going to put out my conversation with new better do better on um, the Silmarillion we did a Balearian and its realms, which my God, the man knows his lore and he, uh, he's very good at the geography parts, which is my biggest weakness

[01:59:12] in talking. And so he explains like how the map of Balearian works and it's really impressive. So I hope people will check that out. Yeah. I'm excited. Oh, one more note on the patron supercast,

[01:59:23] the lower hounds, uh, lowest tier, which was more hounds. It is now founders is going to be ending at the end of July. So as of August 1st, you won't be able to sign up for that tier anymore

[01:59:33] at $3 a month, or I think it's like 32 bucks a year if you do the discount. Um, so get locked into that. You will never see a price increase from us on that tier if you get in before August

[01:59:47] first. But if you come in after that, it will be a $5 tier. Right. All right. Are we ready for, to shout out our discord server boosters and lore masters? Um, so I have music queued up of course,

[01:59:59] because the people have been liking that and I'll, I'll do the discord server boosters and then you jump in with the lower masters. Does that sound good? Yep. Sounds good. All right. Um, this one

[02:00:09] is called hall of idols. Oh gosh. Thank you to our discord server boosters. Jesus Christ. Naros, Aaron K, Tiller the thriller, dork of the ninjas, do 71, captain gin G 56 and Athena.

[02:00:29] Oh, it's me. Uh, lore masters. Some Martian Michael G Michelle E David W Brian P S C Peter O H Bettina W Adam S Nancy M do 71 Brian 80 63 Frederick H Sarah L Gareth C Eric F Matthew M

[02:00:48] Sarah M DJ Mua Andra B Kwang U Dead Eye Jedi Bob Nathan T Alex B Aaron T sub zero Aaron K Dali V mothership 61 Narls Kathy W Stuart B Jeffrey B Elisa U and Adrian.

[02:01:10] Wow. That went on longer than I thought the music. Well, they give you multiple lengths in there. There's like 30 second ones and then this was a 60 second one because the 30 second one we've

[02:01:19] been running out of quickly, but right. Right. Right. Anyway, I like that one. Yeah. It was properly dramatic for Star Wars. It felt very acolyte. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you everyone

[02:01:31] for those of you, especially who have listened this far and yeah, watch out for that season wrap up game show episode to pop up in the lore hounds feed. And then the week after that come back to

[02:01:41] the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast feed for Marilyn and I to talk about myths of the old republic. Lots of stuff. Bye. The lore hounds podcast is produced and published by the lore hounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds.com slash contact.

[02:02:02] Get early and ad free access to all lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the lorehounds and connect with us on Twitter at the lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.

[02:02:29] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side green or black. John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So we're not fighting. I thought this is where HBO wanted us

[02:02:46] to like pick sides and fight and stuff. Don't worry. I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for the lorehounds.

[02:02:59] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the dance of the dragons. And with the season pass option in supercast, listeners can get early ad free access to each

[02:03:11] weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragon fire hot, but probably positive takes. The lorehounds house of the dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side

[02:03:26] effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a heartened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George RR Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.